I'm sure the residents of Brook Road, Maghull will be delighted that one of its residents has brought the location into such prominence. I hope more people don't start to park their cars down there for short periods. Very interesting video Ashley!
When you're not quite rich enough to live in a gated community, but entitled enough to think you should. Why do ''that's *my* space" people always choose to live near schools?
I dont understand how they have streetlighting. Who pays for instalation and running costs, who pays for the gulleys to be cleaned? I hope not the local council.
Its virtually everywhere from my experience you should try parking anywhere for a few days and your car gets reported abandoned to the council or Police you'll be surprised how many get uoset you parking on their street even if virtually empty.
@@marklittler784 I think in most countries, at least in France, you're not supposed (by law) to leave your car parked more than 24h/48h. I can understand why some people would get annoyed by this. I have someone in my neighborhood that leaves his RV parked all summer long right against our garden. Making it the only thing we see when we look outside in this direction. We don't say anything about it because we don't want to be "those" people, but other people might rightfully get upset about it. But it's a special situation.
Unfortunately, the UK seems to be growing into a nation of anonymous quislings and busybodies. I suspect they graduate from the same college where nimbyism and armchair warriors are taught their craft. Intolerance and impatience appear to be the order of things these days; with additional kudos points awarded if one can demonstrate these rather sad traits without the neighbours finding out who was responsible.
In all honesty, the state of the road and pavement would not phase me or make me suspect anything was different about that place. In many cities and towns, small local access roads like this one are not as well maintained as the traffic flow is so low, it doesn't warrant it. And again, to be honest, I've been along "adopted" roads that are main arteries in a town or city in far worse condition. So I don't blame your son for not realising it was an unadopted road. Regardless, the combative nature of the residents is unwarranted. They have no signage up, no notices. No paint on the road to assist drivers. If they are that sensitive about people parking there, a simple "Private road, residents parking only" sign at the entrance would stop a lot of hassle!
The coach company my dad used to work for was right at the end of an unadopted road, it was absolutely littered in holes to the point it was more a slalom to get to the enterance than it was to drive. (proper "Vicar of Dibley" comedy scene deep holes too) The businesses on the road wanted to put money together to have it properly filled and tarmaced, but as one of the businesses refused to chip in it was left in it's damaged state. Coach company ended up having to move as it was damaging their coaches so much.
If it was causing damage to my property (i.e. coaches), I'd have brought it to the attention of the local authority for possible Section 230 (urgent repairs to private streets) consideration.
Ashley Neal goes on a Fact Hunt and gets a comment from Guru Larry.... that in itself is proof that artistry on UA-cam is not just limited to the video content!
@@dfar2303 You're wrong here s230(1) says: "Where repairs are needed to obviate danger to traffic in a private street the street works authority may by notice require the owners of the premises fronting the street to execute, within such time as may be specified in the notice, such repairs as may be so specified." It means the council should serve notice on the adjacent property owner to repair the road (and if they don't comply s230 goes on to say the council can intervene and then bill the property fronting that section of damaged road for fixing it.) There is no risk that the council is "adopting it".
I lived on an unadopted road for 5 years. As I understood it, we owned the road in front of our property, out to the midline. We were pretty chill about it, after an initial period of being Cone People lol. Luckily we were near an end corner with plenty of spare spaces if we found the spaces outside our house full. One of my neighbours had a terrace with space for just one car in front. Someone abandoned a car which had its tax and insurance expire in the 18 months it lay there. But since it's not a council road, neither the council or police/DVLA cared. In the end 'someone' broke into the derelict and wheeled it onto the nearest council street, where it was fairly quickly towed and I guess scrapped, at the council's expense.
There is a legal process for dealing with that. A friend had a car abandoned on a communal parking area for his block of flats, and he somehow (I don't know the details) applied to get it marked as abandoned. He then took ownership and had it towed. I think he actually made a profit due to scrap, but it wasn't worth the hassle, obviously!
You can acquire abandoned items legally here in the Netherlands. Just need to file it as a lost item with the municipality and after a full year you become the owner. That's how in my previous house, an appartment, I became the owner of 5 bicycles and a moped that a thief had dumped there and was dumping more. Asked police to investigate if an owner was known, it wasn't. When the one year term expired I sold them as scrap and the moped for parts. Made about 150 on it. Several other stolen bicycles that were dropped there for later fencing, also disappeared that day just as the scrap dealer dropped by, but obviously I know nothing about how that could've happened. 😆 Now if the thief or original owner shows up later, nothing they can do as they abandoned the items legally and lost ownership.
When you mention trespass it is important to note that there are two types of trespass, criminal and civil. Criminal trespass is when you cause damage to property to gain entry, like cutting a bolt on a locked gate, but the case of parking on an un-adopted road comes under civil trespass and to get any redress the owners of the land would have to take you to court. In mitigation of your action would be whether it was made obvious to you that you were entering private land. In this case with Ashley there are no signs whatsoever to tell you that so a court action would fail completely. Anything like the owner using force to get you to move or damage done to your car would be a criminal act in itself and should be reported to the police who should then gather information for a prosecution.
The two types are simple trespass and aggravated trespass. Aggravated is the criminal one and requires actively stopping people going about their business on the property. So gluing yourself to doors and blocking the entrance is aggravated. Standing one foot inside the property is simple trespass.
@@derekheeps1244 There is no such thing as a Procurator Fiscal in England or Wales; that's part of the Scottish legal system. Criminal prosecution in England and Wales for more serious offences are in the realm of the Crown Prosecution Service. However, for simple motoring offences the police can issue fixed penalty notices and, unless contested they don't go near the CPS unless contested in court. They were introduced for parking offences in the first place (in the 1950s).
Ashley, might be worth you talking with Blackbelt Barrister on YT about it... for the legal side anyway.. he might be able to shed more light on what classes as trespass, long term parking, etc..
Why could the guy politely explain the situation and ask your son to move? There is no need to be aggressively rude towards people especially if it's a genuine mistake - a firm but *POLITE* word works far better
Absolutely spot on Keith. Resident could have been friendly and polite about the whole matter. Perhaps even empathizing with the driver by adding something along the lines of "I totally appreciate it's not signed or a well known rule, so I completely understand you didn't know. But thanks for your co operation and have a good day".
In this case, I certainly believe that Ashley's lad would have been 100% polite and unaggressive. I'm even more convinced since Ashley talks of the repeated aggressive attitude when he went back with his lad to figure it out. The fact that Ashley then reported the incident to the Police speaks volumes - we all know that's not what Ash usually does unless there are *exceptional* circumstances. But it's also easy to forget that people in the wrong (however inadvertantly) often become aggressive when challenged. It's a mark of today's society (and it may have always been that way!). The resident may well be the person that the residents have officially appointed to "police" the road. Perhaps he's had countless instances of abuse despite using the polite approach, and abandoned the tactic? I can certainly see why such a person would become jaded after continually being abused for a reasonable request, and might approach at "full battle stations" after a while. The truth is that we simply don't know.
I never claimed it was of any benefit. I merely proposed an explanation for *why* they were aggressive. But, perhaps you're conflating "aggressive" to mean "physically aggressive"? That would be a different thing entirely. So, If you're saying don't get physical, then I agree. But you can't expect other human beings to never talk in an angry or annoyed manner, because the world doen't work like that - No matter how much better it would be if it did.
@@kirkhamandy He might well be. But there's no law against those sorts of people, or that sort of attitude. We just have to live with 'em and make the best of it.
Interesting video! I would avoid using the ultra-wide angle shot from the 360 camera though, especially while moving around, it was a bit nausiating for me... When you zoomed in more it was fine, but when it was around 180deg I had to look away
Agreed. The 180 camera was very distracting and I literally wanted to turn the video off. But equally, I was interested in the subject matter, so I persevered. However, I would not like many more videos to be shot in this way.
If you think those pavements and roads are bad you should see most of our *adopted* roads in Glasgow! I’m going to get pulled over for appearing to be “driving drunk” as I have to swerve so much just to keep my suspension in one piece.
@@iJ4K3v it’s a scandal. Try reporting them through that broken app, they don’t care. They ALWAYS come back to say “won’t fix, not deemed dangerous” even though it’s a hole big enough to fit an entire wheel. And if they do “fix” them, all they do is pour a blob of bitumen into the hole. They don’t even flatten it. And it takes 3 workmen a whole day to do it 🤔
Maybe the reason is residents don't want other people using it, though everywhere you go even for burglars you have a bound duty to make sure its safe for visitors uninvited or not or it securely fenced off.
It is exactly the same attitude as you get from drivers. There is never no understanding or empathy. My first thoughts is always "This guy has made a mistake, it happens" there is no need to beep unless you are trying to let someone know you are there and it is the same with this road. The note on it's own would suffice just to let someone know but then they had to come out and have a go aswell. I work as a delivery driver for takeaways quite often and every so often i might need to park in front of someones drive for 30 seconds 1 minute at the absolute most. But i still get people coming out and having a go about it every so often. I just think, what does it matter?
I think the problem with parking across someone's driveway for a short time is that they don't know that you are only going to be there briefly, and may be worried about being blocked in. I can understand them coming out to check, but there is no reason for them to be irate about it!
Worked for one of highway agencies down South for a few years. Unadopted can, but does not always mean private, quite often it can just mean that the signage, drainage, maintenance, street lighting etc. is not the responsibility of the local authority. Quite often unadopted roads were a cause of disputes where surface water was draining on to the adopted highway or gravel finding it way on to the adjacent highway. Owners were often shocked at how much I could charge them for putting this right.
I don’t know the layout here vs where your son’s car was parked, but if the school shares, has rights of access over, part owns the road and/or has obligations for the upkeep of the road as well, its employees may well have rights to use and park on it - in the same way as other residents of that road. Depends on the rights and covenants applicable to the land. Preventing someone (such as your son) from lawfully doing so (as the other resident referenced was attempting) could also be a tort against the person attempting to park.
thats a good point, its always one reasons why i was wondering, if the residents are so worried and upset about people parking on the road why havent then put a gate or something but it might be the case that the school also has a right a so if they did put a gate then that would stop the school from using (and other residents who may not want a gate) frrom using it. might be evidence that the school has a right (or are part owners) and as you mentioned they can allow employees or visitors to also use the road (however it would depend on their right to use/ownership and specific wording) it be interest to read through the title/legal documents of the road and school as that would tell us
In the 80's I parked my 1959 long wheelbase Land Rover in a normal residential street in Tunbridge Wells and someone came out and said I couldn't park there as my car was old! I was visiting a property there and had been invited.
When I was an instructor I used to use a particular road for the turn in the road (remember that!). It looked just like any other road but without fail this elderly lady would come out and tell me was a private road and I couldn’t use it. When asking her why she said ‘because I say so’. Eventually she complained to the dreaded DVSA and was told not to use it. One of the schools I used to teach students from had a similar situation. Students used to park on this ‘private’ road until one of the residents came out with a rattle can and sprayed bright red paint over the students cars. Surely that was criminal damage but as so often happens the police wouldn’t do anything about it.
I've lived on a private road for many years. Luckily, the location of the road means it isn't actually a useful location for anyone to park unless you are visiting one of the properties on it. All of our street signs have a sign under them saying "PRIVATE ROAD - RESIDENTS ONLY", which this road seems to lack. This, I think, is key. If they decided to take your student to court, your student would have a reasonable defence in not knowing the road was unadopted, which would be supported by the lack of signage. However, it is important to note that is your student or you can be proven to be aware of the road's status (ie. if they could prove they had already told you once), you would be liable. I also think the homeowner could have been more polite if the story is accurate - I would start with a simple "Excuse me, are you aware that this is an unadopted road?" and work from there. (It is worth noting that private and unadopted roads are, to my understanding, distinguished from each other by the latter being a right of way for motorists, but with both types, the residents are responsible for maintaining the road. If the residents don't maintain the road, they can be sent a letter from the council asking them to, and after a reasonable period, the council will do it themselves and send them the bill. We are lucky, as our road was built in the war and is essentially made of 12 inch thick slabs of concrete, which on one notable occasion persuaded the workmen of one of the utility companies ask our neighbours if they could dig up their garden and get at it from the side. - I digress)
There are also unadopted bridleways. Right of way for pedestrians and horses, but not for cars except for access by the occupier or guests, mail delivery, etc
If there's no signage then theres an implied right of access - since no distinction can be made between this or a public road. Hence no trespass until asked to leave by the landowner (who may be a resident, but it might be a management company who would then need to action anything). As for defences, this would be a civil tort, so there isn't such a thing as a defence, the question would be if any loss was caused to the owner. It would be hard to prove any actual was loss suffered by having a car parked on the street, hence no damages to award.
Interesting. Do speed limits apply on unadopted roads? What about the requirement that your vehicle must be taxed and insured, or that you hold a driving licence?
IANAL but my understanding is that a licence is for driving on public roads, however the legal system has a particular view on what "public" means. For instance, a shop is a private place in that it is owned by a person or a business but for the purposes of law it would be classed as a public place when it was open. Unadopted roads would be similar, if you can drive straight on to them from a public road then I would guess that they would be classed as public areas and all the usual rules apply. This is just my guess though.
It is very interesting because a legal speed limit can only be created by a Traffic Order. Just whacking up signs doesn't cut it. A good example of this is the M6 toll road: It's effectively a private road to which the public has access. It still requires a traffic order to create a limit that the Police are able to enforce.
I was always curious about this when working on a contract in Weston Super Mare a couple of years ago. There’s a road there, Runway Road, that has (or at least had) a 10mph limit. It is a busy main road and no one does 10mph there. Locals basically said it’s an unadopted road and not to follow the speed limits. I just felt that put me in a really difficult position where 10mph would have been ridiculous and probably cause unsafe overtaking, yet I would be speeding by quite a margin to do 30. So I sort of hedged my bets at about 25. Although probably a liability issue, I felt it was unsafe and undesirable to have speed limits that no one was going to follows. It undermines all speed limits. There was nothing different about this road to suggest normal rules did not apply.
Lived on an adopted cul de sac when I was a kid. Believe me, this road is in excellent condition compared to ours. It never got repaired because nobody could ever agree on who should pay what; there was a garage (business) which used the road extensively and really needed to pay a larger amount, as would the pub at the entrance. Most of the residents wanted it adopted, but the council wouldn’t - presumably because they would have had to repair it! The pub once offered to repair the road in full if they could use it as a car park. We told them to do one, given that most of their clients already treat it as such…
Two of my friends live in separate private roads near where I live. The signage is crystal clear that they are private and parking is not allowed. They are also in much better condition.
That is my biggest take home from this video: There is nothing to indicate that this is a private road. The lack of signs doesn't mean it *isn't* one, but how in heck are others supposed to know? Maybe the residents should chip in for some signage rather than expect others to be psychic!
Near us a group of residents on an unadopted road got clear signs put up claiming it was private and a parking firm in and started issuing fines (and permits for residents). A month or two later it was all stripped out and refunds given as they did not have the right to do it. It all depends on leases, easements, prescriptions etc and has to be looked at on a case by case basis.
The only time I have come across an unadopted road was in London where there was both a notice that stated the road was "Private and Unadopted" and at each end of the piece of road which was unadopted there was a closable and lockable barrier, although I never ever came across it closed. I live on a publicly maintained road, where there is generally parking for one, and at most two cars for each house, and some of the residents are likely to leave a note on a car parked in front of their property asking that you not park there again because such parking caused the resident inconvenience. The only time I have been told not to park where parking is allowed on the road was by Wallasey Town Hall,when I had travelled to the Wirral to go fishing. As someone who used to hold an HGV licence, I say congratulations to you for taking your HGV Test. I feel that too many car drivers do not understand how much space an HGV needs to manoeuvre. I would appreciate your explaining when and if a light goods vehicle (EG Mercedes Sprinter) can obstruct the highway when making a delivery. For added information, we live in a cul-de-sac with a narrow (16 foot wide) entrance road. Some residents park their cars on the pavement, and supermarket delivery vans have been known to block access to the properties further away from the access while making deliveries, and basically, if challenged, say that what they do is permitted by the Highway Code. Thanks in anticipation.
Whenever I've seen an unsupported road it's been signed as "unadopted road no parking" or "private road no parking". The nearest was across the street from me, but it now has gates on it and is now obviously private property: it would be totally ignorant to park there now
I’m not going to comment on the ins and outs of your incident, other than to say that if they live by a school then they’ve probably had many issues with people parking poorly! Glad it didn’t escalate. Thanks for the info on unadopted roads. We are shortly going to move into a new build. The main roads on the development will be adopted but quite a few of the side roads aren’t (it’s quite common for new estates as it costs developers a lot of money to get them all adopted so they don’t bother with the smaller roads ) so I knew a little about them but not the legal side so that’s very interesting. I think, in practice, it’s basically going to be a cul-de-sac type road which all the residents will share upkeep for, so there shouldn’t be any cause for anyone else to park there for any length of time (save the obvious ones such as builders/visitors/emergency vehicles etc).
"This is MY road! You can't park that Ambulance there, you idiots!!" I imagine this being bellowed Brian Blessed style at some point on that cul-de-sac.
@@dylandajhharwood5566 What I didn't articulate very well is that there is unlikely to be an issue such as the one in Ashley's video due to the type of road it is. If you were implying that that is something I might say then that's actually quite amusing but not for the reason you might think.
I had a similar experience when I had pulled into a side road in order to access a petrol station, I couldn't see from the main road that the petrol station was temporarily closed with cones, so I thought ah no problem I will just turn around in this road ahead of me as I couldn't turn around in the small area which my car was in currently, that's when a man walked out and very aggressively claiming his road was private and refused to let me turn around as if my presence was an insult to him and insisted I reversed on to an extremely busy main road which often has cars driving at 40 mph+, I did not feel comfortable doing this as I did not deem this a safe manoeuvre, anyway luckily a bloke working in the petrol station walked by so I asked if I could turn around on the forecourt, he said yes and moved the cones for me, this was a well maintained tarmac road, my small seat Leon would have done no damage to his road
That ultra wide angle lens and the distorting of the picture was really jarring and giving me a headache. I couldn't finish the video, which was a shame as I was enjoying the discussion.
if you think Brook Rd in Maghull is bad, you ought to try Flaxfield Rd in Formby (on the right, as you enter from Tescos). Unlike Brook Rd, that genuinely can be used as a cut-through if traffic is backed-up, but it would take a brave man to try. Great if you want to give your pupils some experience of navigating the Somme battlefield after a bombardment. I'm sure the residents keep it that way as a discouragement. Nice use of the Insta360 invisible selfie stick BTW. ;)
With the kind of money that must be invested in those giant houses, you would think they could spring for a few signs. The fact that the road is in such a state is immaterial - residents will generally be driving Range Rovers / Audit Q7s etc...
A lot of parents near us got very upset when they were asked not to park in the pub car park when picking their darlings up from school. They thought it was their right to park wherever they liked.
We had that at our old office. All spaces getting blocked, clearly marked, behind a gate. We ended up having to wheelclamp a lot of them and even had to knock out one of the pretty princes whose divine right to park everywhere we'd infringed on. One parked right in the entrance of the gate as I was driving behind him. Just in maybe 50 cm, then stop and park and get out blocking the entire way in. So I asked him if he was serious. He ignored me and said "It's only for a while". So I locked the gate, parked in front of his car on the other side and kept it locked until 11.30 as he was outside bounching up and down, calling his employer that he was late and looking for who had the keys. When I went to open the gate he was actually still angry somehow, I couldn't resist telling him "Oh, it was only for a while".
As a (former) local councillor, I was aware that some of the roads in my area were unadopted. For one particular road, this was because local residents would have preferred that that the road be adopted and there was a long running campaign by residents to try and find the developer and force them to bring the road to an adoptable standard. Unadopted roads are not maintained by any local council, do not have to be gritted in snow or ice, dont have to be repaired by any authority and even street lighting is an issue. I was aware that such roads were effectively in the ownership of the residents whether they wanted it or not. I have never come across the parking/right to park issue and I suspect the residents of the road I'm thinking of, dont know that either. I (or rather the council's officers) did find out that the road has to be of a certain standard to be adopted. If and until that standard is reached and adoption is applied for and agreed, it will remain up to the residents to maintain it.
Very interesting Ash. Never heard of an adopted road in my life. Which begs the question, without signage, how is the general public reasonably supposed to know? And as you eluded to, it seems the residents would rather not have signage and just come out to aggressively confront members of the public. Power trip indeed! Glad you reported this to the Police Ash. So if it's illegal for the public to park on an adopted road, what about driving up and down it? Or indeed cycling or walking along it? I was almost expecting a stroppy resident to come out and ask you what you are doing there and why you are filming. Honestly, the whole fuss seems so uneccassry to me. I wonder how law abiding any of the residents are when driving.
at a glance on google, its down the road owners if the public has right of use over an adopted road or not (private road means private however). However, with no signage, it could be assumed that both right of way and parking is allowed. In fact, in this situation with Ashley, whose to say that the aggressive man speaks on behalf of the 'frontagers', the other frontagers may not care about the access/parking, hence the lack of signs
@@TheDantheman12121 Why should they? As a resident they probably have to pay for maintenance of the road, why should they pay so other people can park on it?
@@donaldasayers If they're that bothered about it, why can't they chip in for proper signs then? At least they'd have a valid point about people parking there. Otherwise, why would a member of the public think anything other than it was a public road?
I live on an unadopted road and it's quite challenging when non-residents do park on our street. There is a group of flats on a nearby road with no parking and unfortunately the residents use our street as a car park. All of my neighbors have signs in front of their property (myself included) indicating that it is private parking. However, these signs are completely ineffective as most motorists ignore them. We don't shout at anybody, we don't confront anybody because all in all, it doesn't cause any major problems but if in the future more people park here and actual residents have difficulty parking near their properties, we'd have to take action against them.
@@NA-bt9mx For us, we're allowed to have vehicles towed because we own the property outside our houses. For you, if it is council land then there's probably not much you can do.
Do the laws on tresspass not say that you have to be informed that you're tresspassing and be asked to leave before the landowner can take any action? e.g. sign, resident telling you, note, etc.
I live on an unadopted road. There is no traceable owner and we can't take ownership of it by adverse possession as it is a highway. Neither the less we have an annual fund to maintain it and we have signage and insurance. There is no real problem with parking, just the occasional idiot that parks in the turning area at the end ignoring the signs and common sense. They usually stick up a disabled badge like that makes it ok.
Would the people selling the house be ok with people parking up to look at the house? I’d be pissed if my neighbours were aggressive towards a potential buyer!
My wife and I were looking for our lost cat a few years ago. We walked all round the neighbourhood. We ended up walking down a long narrow lane and were challenged by a bloke about it being a private road. He only relented when we explained our situation, but he was still very salty. I guess some people just enjoy having perceived power over others!
There's a few unadopted roads around where I grew up, all of them had signs stating "private road", and all of them were nothing more than a mud track with a bit of gravel on them. This one in the video is a lot harder to spot given it is paved (probably in far better condition than most, even in its current state), and has no signage. I would doubt someone would be prosecuted for trespass given that lack of signange, though the process they could be forced to deal with would be bad enough itself.
The interesting fact is that 'unadopted' and 'private' are not the same thing. Unadopted simply means that the residents are responsible for paying the road's (and underlying infrastructure: drains, pipes, cable runs, etc.) maintenance themselves, not that they own it.
There's no excuse for abusive behaviour whatever the circumstances, but, in all probability the unadopted road here will be owned jointly by all the residents. You might not be impressed by someone parking on your own drive (for example) and that's a parallel for what seems to have happened here. Agree fully that the residents would be much better installing a couple of signs at the public access end clarifying the status. Interesting that there seems to be a school at the end of the road. There may well be a right of access over it to reach the school therefore, and indiscriminate parking could be a long running problem for the residents. More good reason to put decent signs in, if so. In my neck of the woods (east of Leeds) many years ago I saw a police van setting itself up as a speed trap at the end of an unadopted road (parked on the unadopted bit but monitoring the speed of traffic on the highway) but he was moved on by a resident. Didn't have any option but to comply.
Years ago I used to get dragged out to walk the dogs at an ungodly hour. We would park down a dead end road (no signs that it's "private", ie unadopted) and be gone by 6.50 or 7.00 am at the latest. We started getting notes on the car asking us not to park down there, and one morning, met the writer of the notes who lived in large house (divided into flats, with a tennis court and swimming pool on the grounds) over 200 metres from where we parked. The level of entitlement of some people is staggering. Last year I was driving down an unadopted road (this one does have signs up saying "Private", "No Through Road", etc). There was a car in front of me and as he started turning into his driveway, he stopped, blocking my path. I wound down my window as he got out, expecting him to ask my help in moving something blocking his path, or something like that. "This is a private no through road." He said. "I know." I replied, smiling. "But you're treating it like a through road." He claimed. "No, I have a pupil who lives near then end. I've taught their next door neighbour, and another person on this section, and a couple more back round the corner." I pointed out (one had refresher lessons, one passed first time, the other 2, second time, they both failed on observation at junctions). He grudgingly moved his car, but probably watched as I reversed into a driveway further down. I've since taught another pupil nearer his house (who passed first time, earlier this year, and will be teaching her younger brother, when he's 17, too). My girlfriend, when I first met her, mentioned the Law on unadopted roads, as her mum had had an argument with someone down one, once.
I live on an unadopted road and I have on occasion asked people if they would mind moving when we have had guests due to arrive in the near future and most people did not know that the road was unadopted which as you say is not always signposted. I provided them of details of where they can park and most were happy to move. My road was signposted as Private but the council when renewing the signage left this off. In addition to the information you have provided it is ok to park on a private or unadopted road within 45 feet of an adopted road, this may be where a road changes to/from adopted/unadopted or an unadopted road is at a junction. I always try to be polite and suggest alternate parking areas so not to cause confrontation especially as there is now no longer any signage. Great video and very informative.
This falls into whether the road is a highway and if it is, is it considered a public highway? If it serves a school chances are it is a public highway and it would therefore be very difficult to bring action to stop motorists using it. The adoption is a moot point as you can have an unadopted public highway, all adoption does is transfer responsibility for repairs to a public authority, usually Council, but could be Highways Agency and enables them to apply Traffic Regulation Orders, such as waiting reatrictions etc to that highway. The same authority can still have powers over unadopted public highways.
Oddly enough i had an issue with this recently! I started going to a local gym but as you reach it the pavement entirely disappears and you have to walk effectively on a bendy road, in the dark with cars driving past occasionally. The gym told us of a back entrance through a private road, much safer! We just walk through the road and cut across the gyms field to get it, perfect. Until recently when heading home and a guy in a truck stops us and says "this is a private road!" "Yes?" "You shouldn't be here!" "Oh? We were told it was fine?" "By who!?" "The gym" he did not seem happy but we were calm and polite so went on our way but he was looking for a fight. We spoke to the gym and they were adamant we can cut through there but my friend doesn't want to start a fight so back to walking on the road. I know this is about parking and driving but what about walking? We never cut through anyones houses, just walk on this road (which is more of a dirt track really) and there are no signs anywhere saying no access except for residents. Thoughts?
If that route has been used by pedestrians for at least 20 years without there ever being a locked gate etc then it's become a public right of way. Otherwise the owner of the land can cut you off
There's an unadopted road in Bebington that used to make this look like the best maintained road on the world. The residents must have chipped in for improvements though as it doesn't look that bad from Google Maps lol
I like these videos where he gets out and wanders around. It's like an episode of neighbours when they go on location. Seriously though, that camera makes me feel ill
Manners cost nothing. Even if the resident had every right to ask people not to park there, why not be civil about it? "Excuse me, this is a private road, and we'd prefer that non residents don't park without permission." Job done. This isn't difficult. Also, signage would be a great idea.
Hi Ash its always interesting to me that road users dont know about adopted/unadopted roads and its not more common place knowledge. One thing i will say is that if a road is private/unadopted not only are you not allowed to park on it. you cannot even drive over the road as well without the consent/legal right from the road owner, so techincally your not allowed to even access or drive on the road as well. Im a property lawyer who use to do conveyancing (buying and selling properties) and investigating whether roads around the property are adopted or not is a standard (but important) issue. so its something i know about and have to remember that actually its not common knowledge. The issue is that if your property is at the end of an unadopted road (private road) and the only access is by that single road, but as you noted you dont have the rights of the owner to use the road (to drive over it/park etc) to access your property. Then that means that technically you have no legal rights to access your property at all and it is known as "land locked" e.g. your propety is locked in from land around it and you cannot reach it (at least by a road to drive one) (though there can be legal mechanisims to get access but they are not easy/cheap to do and would involve going to court). when buying a property you have to ensure that the property is not land locked by either making sure that the road abutting/leading to the property is either adopted (public) so that everyone has a right to use it or that the owner of the road has granted a "legal right" to use the road to access the property. Generally speaking the legal right is given to the "owner of the property" who needs to use the road, so as long as you own the property you will have the right. so when we are buying properties lawyers check with the local authority to see if the roads are adopted, if not we check the property legal title to see if a legal right is granted to use the road to the owner of the property. if none of these are true then we would advise to not buy the property or to get the rights needed from the road owner (you can also get indemnity insurance to cover it but thats another story) In this scenario however i agree that a normal person would not know what roads are adopted or not ( im a lawyer who knows the issues that doesnt mean I know which roads are adopted or not; nor would I really check if im just driving around or going somwhere; who does?) and the road owner (that resident) should of at least put up signs on the entrance to let people know its a private road and that you are not allowed to park on the road as otherwise its not really tresspassing until you were made aware of it. One thing that is interesting is that by not putting up signs or other methods of letting people know its a private road they may accidently make it a "public right of way" Generally speaking a "public right of way" means you have granted the public at large a right to use your private road. when a road is "adopted" it is at the same time made a public road which is what technically allows the public to drive over the road and park on it ("adopted" specifically means the local authority maintain the road however it is the act of dedicating the road as "public" which allows people to use i,t this happens at the same time when a road is adopted). However there are circumstances where you can make a road public by accident. one scenario is that if you generally allow the public to use a road unabated without stopping them or telling them its private for over 20 years then the courts may say its a public road "public right of way" because you allowed the public to use the road for so long. From your video it seems like this specific private road leads between 2 other roads (its not a dead end/cul de sac) meaning people (public) might use this road generally when driving since there is nothing stopping them. if the public used the road for 20 years and the owner did not stop anyone or put up signs or a gate etc then 20 years later it might become a public road and then resident couldnt stop anyone driving over it that point. so if the resident wantd to stop that then they should put up signs or a gate etc One last thing i will say, you mention there is 40,000.00 unadopted roads. However this number is only going in increase so this issue may get worse. When new housing developments and housing estates are built it would be common place for the local authority to adopt the road as soon as the new development was built so the road would be public from day one meaning anyone could use the new roads. However increasingly local authorities cannot afford to maintain new roads so now they choose not to adopt and tell the developer the road should remain private/unadopted and maintained by the residents. So as more and more sites and houses are built it is more and more likely there will be more and more unadopted/private roads so that number will only increase as time goes on so this may crop up again and again. ..... Thank you for coming to my ted talk..... that became a lot longer than i was expecting haha. also just to cover myself this is of course not legal advice that im providing and just generally some comments 🙂
Interesting and informative post.👍 Since you are a lawyer I hope that you have a secretary to make sure that abominations such as "should of" don't make it into your professional correspondence!😉 😄
Thankyou, very interesting comment and educational. I think the law should be quite unambiguous here; if there is no standard signage or erected gate (to spec) then the road should be classed as "Right of Way" to the public, unadopted or not. This should be part of the Highway Code so that drivers should be fully aware of their responsibilities and rights. It is a totally unacceptable situation that road users have to navigate the law of trespass when driving around the city roads. Must say that in Scotland there is no Trespass Law as such but still have the issue of Private Roads, quite frankly no one knows the legality up here either. シ
I was going to question the title of this vid' because I was under the impression that there was no law of "Trespass" in UK. Fortunately, I checked before I commented and made a fool of myself, because there was a new law passed in 2022 and trespass is now an offence. Thank you for the info', Ashley and for bringing me up to date. I've now got to find how it works with the Right to Roam legislation.
I agree this often can be petty, but the best approach is to be calm and diplomatic. Explain your situation, and what you're there for. Hopefully you can appeal to their better nature. Start by 'apologising' for any inconvenience. I know this seems like backing down, but it can take the heat out of things, and the resident may have unjustified fears, but you can try to allay them by appearing civil. If you pick a spot that doesn't impede access, this will reduce the chances of friction significantly. They might just be getting annoyed by the frequency of use by 'trespassers'. In any case, appearing friendly can help take the steam out of these situations.
The road I grew up on was an unadopted concrete avenue. The ruts and pits were so sharp and deep you'd pop tyres above 10mph, so all the mums and dads were happy to let us play in the road. Great for speed regulation!
I live in unadopted road and we pay a monthly service charge to a property management company which is really HIGH, this covers the lights on night time, the maintenance of the road, collection of any dumped garbage... also digging into our paperwork we found out our contracts say that only two properties which have garden access from our road, have the right to access and NOT to park. We have been through a similar situation, some residents from a nearby road started parking in our road permanently, the issue started happening on weekends, when all the 20 houses in our road have visitors we struggle to find a space because some decided to park there for 5 weeks or sometimes even 8 weeks. We nicely spoke to these people and some apologized and never done it again but some unfortunately didn't.
A friend of mine lives in an unadopted road which is a cul-de-sac, at the end of which is a nursery school. Some of the residents have access to private parking without using the road, so they don't want to pay the very high cost of bringing the road up to standard, and most users, and therefore beneficiaries of any improvement, would be the parents accessing the nursery, who are the ones ripping the road up with their Chelsea tractors twice a day. It seems to be an intractable problem which would only be resolved if the nursery ever closed.
Most housing estates, particularly those built in the past 30 years will be private roads solely provided as access the houses built along the road and therefore unadopted by the local authority. Often you will see a physical demarcation between private and public roads such as a line of cobbles or kerb stones buried buried flush with the surrounding road surface. Others will have the words 'Private Road' indicated on the street sign. Increasingly some private roads are gated instead. Often approach roads and footpaths leading to railway stations are also private. where this is the case you will often see a sign indicating that the road is a private road 'not dedicated to the public' which means that although the public have access, in order to access the railway station, it can be closed without notice at any time. Equally a private road can be an a track that has never had a hard surface applied. Sometimes an estate management company is formed to maintain these private roads, and all households served by that road for access, will contribute an agreed sum of money regularly for the upkeep of that road and the common areas of the estate. Such roads do not come within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act unless they are available to all traffic, and that includes through traffic, which is unlikely. As such, the residents or the estate management company can erect any sign they wish, and do not need a Traffic Regulation Order on order to do so. That applies to yellow lines and traffic signs which themselves do not need to conform to the the standard seen on public roads. However any such sign is not legally enforceable by the police - the owner of the road would need to take enforcement action themselves. I have a private road running across my garden which just gives access to three other houses and I own the land on both sides of the private road. I have a duty, (according to my house deeds), to share the costs of maintaining the road with three other households and the only thing that I must not do, is to wilfully obstruct said road, and to allow residents, their visitors and any person having business at any of the properties served, unhindered and unlimited access. Finally should a person have an trip or fall on a private road, they are unlikely to get compensation, since there is no standard to maintain such roads to, and indeed some will be unmade roads anyway, unlike public roads where you could take action against a local authority.
Personally I think the resident's power trip is because they want there to be a positive to living on an unadopted road. Because it's not looked after they can become a right state. The one you walked down looked good compared to some I've seen. I've been down some that are undriveable at more than 5mph. I'm sure they'd much rather it be taken care of by the council and kept in better condition. The residents won't come together to pay for the road to be looked after as they will just argue about how much each they pay. Eg the person at the very beginning of the road who only needs to use a little bit won't want to pay the same amount as the person who lives at the end of the road for example.
I used to walk to one of these unadopted roads near Manchester Airport (Trenchard Drive) for my hobby. Other hobbyists used to drive and park on the road and were questioned by residents. I still visit the area but stand further down away from the road (opposite a car dealer) It got that bad that they have a guy on a moped visiting the road to move people on or even threaten to have the car towed if they don’t move. Another point to mention about parking. I don’t think many drivers know about stopping or parking in front of a driveway or entrance to a property is going against the Highway Code under Parking section 243 and contacting the police can have there car removed.
It is only an offence to block exit from a property, nothing stopping you parking on a dropped curb if nothing is on the driveway afaik. If someone blocks of access to your drive it isn't really an obstruction because you can still physically park elsewhere, but if you are blocked in it is an obstruction because you are physically prevented from leaving.
Since Brook Road is not a dead end, people could drive down it too. They would be committing the same level of trespass as someone parking for a couple of hours. The key fact that would enable the home owners to take out a civil case against the trespasser would be signage. Lack of it would mean the trespasser would have a valid defence. Another point would be the damage caused or the inconvenience caused - most likely minimal if at all so the compensation would be something like a token £1 but the cost would be in the hundreds if not thousands.
Apart from the issue of unadopted roads, the presence of a nearby school might have had an effect on the local residents. Near where I live, there are frequent disputes between residents and parents using the (public) roads close by to drop off/pick up primary school children, disrupting access to their property etc. Although some effort was made using double yellow markings by the Council, temporary speed limits at certain times of day etc, it’s been a long term problem. One of the schools happens to have a large supermarket next door, and it appears to me that the store is happy for them to use it, and maybe drop in as a customer around the same time! It’s always a lot quieter there during school holidays.
This is a very important topic. There are several unadopted roads in the area near my home, in one of which is the excellent MOT and service garage where I have been taking my vehicles for a number of years. The road now has professionally made signs both to indicate that it is a private road and a 20mph speed limit is in force (no cameras yet). The roadside parking area for the garage is also designated for customers only. Similar signage has also appeared at another road in a nearby village, serving houses, farms, nursing home and a sewage works.. What I do not know is if these roads are actually vehicular rights of way. I understand that some residents of unadopted roads do not want adoption, because they are then charged thousands of pounds by the council according to the length of their frontage. One question- If the school shown is accessed by that road, are they not also an owner and therefore entitled to have parking there?
Lewtas Street in Eccles sprung to mind, the street sign (blurred out on Google Streetview) actually says "(Private) Unadopted Road" though. There's an entire chunk of Wilmslow (Wilmslow Park) that isn't on Streetview at all, with No Motor Vehicles (except for Access) signs at the entrances and some signs citing a Highways act; that's also apparently unadopted, but the road surfaces actually seem pretty decent (at least to my eye walking through) there.
This was an interesting video. We live on an unadopted road, but we are housing association tenants. We have had a few run ins with people blocking our paths, or our turning area because they have stopped there to walk their dogs. There are also a few neighbours who have left their cars outside our house for days on end. I was never sure where we stood as far as our rights, but this has helped. I'm usually polite, unlike your featured road "owner" and ask them to leave the small space in front of our bungalow so my disabled wife can get to our car - see we can't have a disabled parking space because the road is unadopted. I've put a query into our local council on the back of this video. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
We lived on an unadopted road in Winchester some years back and had responsibility for the path and road (to the midpoint) in front of our property. If you have similar you could then paint on your own disabled parking bay with drop curbs where needed.
One for the Black Belt Barrister. I have knowingly parked in an unadopted road and no problems. Admittedly it was a short link road and also allowed access to garages and gardens. Now it is a public road and looked after by the local authority.
I live on an unadopted road. I has never ever occurred to me that non residents should not park on the road. I do not think any of the residents view it as a private road. The only issue we have with the road is that the council do not maintain the road surface so the resident occasional fix up some of the potholes that unfortunately develop. I understand that is is unadopted because when the houses were build the developer did not pay for it to be adopted.
The street where I bought my first house was initially un-adopted, the solicitor that did the conveyancing held back some money to cover any repairs that may be necessary. The street had 1.5 car parks for each property plus a 2 car wide turning area, but I don't know of any incident where a non-resident was told not to park. In Christchurch (NZ) there are plenty of private roads, which is a similar situation, and in my role at the City Council I have no authority in those private roads. I have been on the receiving end of residents frustration when I fail to act when the resident feels they have been wronged and want a Council Officer to take action.
Ashley, you did miss one obvious thing - the street lights. A street lighting authority can light ANY road (for public safety/security reasons) including unadopted/private ones, so that is a red herring. The electric comes at little cost (the lights on this road will only be 35 watts or so).and gets lost in the authorities budget. The street nameplates are usually provided by the Local Council who will almost invariably add "Unadopted" under the nameplate. Also any private road owner will nearly always add "Private" to a nameplate just to dissuade explorers.
It's worth noting that many new build estates are unadopted until the developers decide it's in their interest to get the local authority to take responsibility. We have a development locally with raised ironwork, unsurfaced roads and 30cm kerbs still unadopted 2 years after the last house sold.
My parents road is like this. Council made them remove the sign saying it is private. If the residents kept the Private’ sign, it triggers additional cost for them, that’s why there is no signage. It’s crazy that they also don’t put yellow lines at the sides, because how is anyone to tell.
Weird, I only live about 5 mins away, and have been past this road countless times, but never knew it was classified as such - but it's easy to see why; it's not the biggest surprise.
I work for a Utlilities company and we have to access roads like this all the time to carry our works, and it is a minefield. There is nothing to give you information until you go onto the legal land registry to identify the terms and conditions of the road in question. Some roads are private but you still have legal rights of access so you can use the road the same as the highway. Other roads are genuinely private land and there is no legal right of access unless you have business on site or permission from the users/occupiers of the land. There are other roads that look like they are private but turn out to be things like Bridal paths, meaning that technically you are not allowed to take any vehicles onto the land at all without the express permission from the local users/occupants on the land. If in doubt *don’t* park in private roads because a lot of private estates are now starting to employ car towing companies. [number plate recognition cameras being used to issue parking fines are also becoming common] If I lived next door to a school and people parked in my driveway while they picked their kids Up I would get pissed off pretty quick. I expect it the same when to live on an estate with private roads, the road is for the use of the residents only, [if you don’t have business to conduct on this land then stay off it.]
Got a private parking notice on a road outside a friends that is similar. A new estate where the main road through it is adopted but the rest not. I suspect the developer pulled a fast one and did a quality road that the council refused to adopt. Have some sympathy with the residents as people park to go to the nearby park (or school in your son's case). I was visiting a mate. They had signage up, but absolutely none that any reasonable driver would have been able to see. Got it squashed, but that is always a pain. I actually got a second ticket from them for parking on a bit of road that I new was in fact adopted! No marking to indicate that you've entered a private road, no yellow lines or time of use, no no parking sign. In fact they did everything on the estate to make the road look like a council road. The road name signs even had the local council name emblazoned on them. You'd think it would be cheaper to add "Private Road". The private parking signage was on the opposite side of the road. So someone thinking this is an adopted road, sees no restrictions on the side they're parking, while the ant sized writing was on a pole nowhere near my car. I suspect just adding private parking, and putting some proper no parking signs up (even without the right to enforce them) would have solved most of their problem without the angst.
Its quite interesting, I act for developers as a solicitor (but dont worry im not the first to defend developer actions and misconduct, however most of my clients are decent developers and human beings generally lol who try to do the right thing (which is rare i know)) but its interesting the point you mention about developer pulling a fast one and council refusing to adopt. From what I see its actually the opposite. In a lot of cases now Councils do not have the money to maintain more and more roads. Though yes new developments mean more council tax unforunately the tax does not cover the ever increasing costs of the Councils as with more houses/flats also mean increase costs. As such many now say to developers that they wont adopt the roads and they have to remain private and as such the developers then leave it to the residents to maintain. its rare developers keep the road as it really doesnt provide much benefit and only adds more liabilty (if someone hurts themsleves on the road then the developer could be liable) so more so than not they transfer the road to the residents ( or to a company which will be owned by the residents usually a residents management company) so yeah i think there needs to be more down to get councils to adopt the roads even if that means increasing council tax maybe for the residents by the road in question so they pay a bit more to keep it maintained but then at least the council can own and deal with road properly
I live on an un-adopted road in Wakefield city centre (new build estate, so due to be adopted soon by the council. Apparently the law is the construction company who builds these new estates must maintain the roads for 3 years before the council take over). There are signs all over the estate warning that its private land and that fines will be given etc and you need a permit to park, so we don't get any non-residents parking here. But that's only happened relatively recently - before these signs threatening fines there were only signs saying "Private road", and city centre workers/commuters from the nearby train station really took the p***! It got to a point where that many cars were cramming themselves into the estate that bin lorries couldn't get in and rats were infesting the bins. If a fire engine or other emergency needed to get in they would've had no chance either. So I get why some people get irritated as I've been on the receiving end of when it gets really out of hand. But on streets like the one you're showing in some sleepy suburb, with no warning signs, I think residents really ought to use a bit of common sense and ask themselves if the odd car is really affecting anyone. And if they can't be reasonable, put up some signs!
I currently live on a private/unadopted road, which is actually sign posted with “Private Road, No Public Access”. To say it’s in bad condition doesn’t really come close, as it’s literally a single track gravel road which gives access to 13 houses. The bottom of the road disappears off the end of the east coast, so we don’t really have a problem with cars, more folk wanting to get access to the beach, but the principal is the same. Since we put up signs saying “No Beach Access”, the problem has pretty much gone. So signs are definitely a simple answer to the question
I had a situation occur very similar to what you described happening to your lad. I am unsure whether the road was public or unadopted , though I am fairly certain it was a public road, in a small quiet avenue. A resident came out to question me on why I was parking there, which struck me as very strange. Coming from living close to a city centre, I had only ever known parking to be a free-for-all. However this quiet rural avenue seemed to be much more concerned with parking. In the end when I returned to my car several residents accosted me and harassed me, telling me to go and park where I came from etc. In the end for fear of my car being vandalised I opted to move it to another much busier street which I had wanted to avoid parking on. To this day I still reflect back on their abuse as nothing short of bullying. I do not enjoy it when people park outside my house but I understand that all have a right to a public road and get on with living my life, apparently not all think the same way
I once parked on a unadopted road as everyone else was doing the same as it was fireworks night and the road next to the park was private. The year after the police had to physically block the road to stop residents from parking there. Now they have full signposting saying private road access for residents and visitors only.
I live on an unadopted road and parking by non residents can become a nightmare. It didn't used to be, but we ended up with people parking uninvited and even declaring their cars SORN and local firms using it to park commercial vehicles. We had to put signs up to prevent it, sometimes to no avail. Even had an incident where an ambulance couldn't access a resident in need. If people were aware and used it reasonably there wouldn't have been a problem but people are people after all.
There were unadopted roads near where I grew up in Edinburgh. The roads very like those in the video - partially cobbled and very rough. The houses were large one-off architect-designed builds, so no developer putting in the roads. They were all Edwardian era. The roads weren’t private - the one I’m thinking of joined two adopted roads together, so probably an original right of way. I’m now in my fifties and those roads have not changed at all - essentially farm roads from the late 19th century and earlier. Parking never seemed to be an issue, but each house was set back from the road and had drives that would have allowed residents to park their cars off-road anyway. I heard that the cost of getting a local authority to adopt a road retrospectively is, unsurprisingly, astronomical - so that, combined with trying to get residents to agree, leads to inaction.
I put a sign up to say our road was”Private. Residents Only “ and someone took it of the post, put there by the council that it is “ Cul de sac” I cannot put it back, as I am elderly, and paid to put it up. I’ve had large vehicles parked for a year outside my house, preventing my entrance and exit, and only get sworn at.
our old office used to be on an unadopted road that the residents were responsible for. The council were still able to put a traffic management order and parking meters. Unadopted doesnt mean the road is unable to be treated as a normal road.
Where I live, the street name signs have, in smallervletters below the name, the words Private Road or Unadopted Road. But apart from those on private land, like the approach to my local railway station, there are no signs or markings showing any restrictions.
I live on an unadopted road. I own the freehold on my house and the land it stands on and on a separate rectangle of "associated land" which is my parking space. Each of the other houses on the road has it's own space too. If people park in my space I politely ask them not to, either in person or by leaving a polite note on their windscreen. I've never felt the need to get confrontational and it's always resolved itself. I only rarely have issues with people parking in my space so I haven't put up any signs or barriers to deter people, but I would certainly do that first before I started having a go at anyone. I have had issues parking on public roads near my local train station. The residents have the option to ask the council to put in parking restrictions and issue permits, but then they would have to pay for their permit. So, as a result of their own choice, they have to tolerate on-street parking by people who are getting the train - this doesn't stop them parking, but it may mean they sometimes have to park a little way away from their house. Some of them leave cones out on the road protecting what they see as "their" parking space but, of course, they don't own the road. I am often tempted to move the cones out of the way and park, but I am worried that the kind of person who thinks he owns part of the road would probably think nothing of vandalising my car if I did that. It's a shame because I don't like to let bullies win.
Where I lived as a kid there was an unadopted road, it was a pot hole ridden gravely mess with only one end open for cars but had a path at other end for foot access, you could pretty much lie in some of the holes, at the entrance the signpost clearly said 'unadopted road', I think it was tarmaced since I last walked down it.
My wife and I can't actually have roads naturally so this unadopted one would be so very welcomed in our household. We would take such good care of it. Brook is such a nice name too.
I used to own a house in an unadopted road. All is residents had equal share ownership of the road. Parking was limited so we had signs up to inform that it was residents parking only. In ten years of ownership I only spoke to random people parking a couple of times. But always remained pleasant, and likened the small section of road to being the “driveway” for our houses. Both were very understanding, smiles all round. Although technically trespassing, this isn’t enforceable in England. Only aggravated trespass (remaining after being asked to leave) is.
Had that situation once in Scotland, several (new) houses in a Cul De Sac, no signs of course and accessible directly to roadway. Was actually on business with one of the householders. But this chap came out "Blah blah can't park here buddy. etc" I argued somewhat but did not want to create any animosity with my client and this neighbor so I just went out into the public highway and parked there. Yip really they should politely state, "Hello this is a Private Road and UNLESS you have business here can;t park chum" That would be more reasonable. In the end why don't they just stick up a Private Road sign, would save a lot of inconvenience!
I would have thought visiting a property (the school) on the unadopted road would entitle you to park on the road. Maybe one for the Black Belt Barrister.
Not if they have just a right of way and not an additional right to park -- these are separate rights ("easements") in English land law. Right of way would entitle the school and it's staff pupils etc to access and egress (leave) over the road, but not to linger on it for longer than reasonably needed to pass along it...
They can be a nightmare for the residents who live on or back onto one, it only takes one of the residences to say, “no I’m not paying for resurfacing works” or the likes, that every one else just gives up or does their little bit, which then causes issues with water run off or potholes getting worse along the track/road. I know this as we had one at the back of our house, it was a dead end so no through traffic but the gypsy’s would dump their bloody rubbish all over the lane constantly, the only positive was, never had issues with random parked cars and there was an understanding that we all parked out side our own garages/gardens.
I know of a road where the power had been strung overhead, and the residents decided they all wanted it underground, except one lady kept refusing, and on pressing her, she finally revealed she didn't have the funds to pay for her house to be upgraded. so the rest of the residents decided to just pay a bit more to get hers fixed for her. problem sorted.
I'm sure the residents of Brook Road, Maghull will be delighted that one of its residents has brought the location into such prominence. I hope more people don't start to park their cars down there for short periods. Very interesting video Ashley!
Wouldn’t it be terrible if a load of local lads organised a bit of a car meet on the road!?
Turn up in hi-viz and with survey poles as "you're surveying the road for resurfacing and adoption".
@@Shyted And a few people tripping on the knackered pavement and making insurance claims against them!
When you're not quite rich enough to live in a gated community, but entitled enough to think you should.
Why do ''that's *my* space" people always choose to live near schools?
I dont understand how they have streetlighting. Who pays for instalation and running costs, who pays for the gulleys to be cleaned? I hope not the local council.
You know you’re in England when someone with a nice house in a nice area spends all day monitoring who parks outside their house.
True, but have you been to Bavaria, or even the US? At least they're not allowed to shoot you here.
Its virtually everywhere from my experience you should try parking anywhere for a few days and your car gets reported abandoned to the council or Police you'll be surprised how many get uoset you parking on their street even if virtually empty.
Even worse nowadays with all the home cctv.
@@marklittler784 I think in most countries, at least in France, you're not supposed (by law) to leave your car parked more than 24h/48h.
I can understand why some people would get annoyed by this.
I have someone in my neighborhood that leaves his RV parked all summer long right against our garden. Making it the only thing we see when we look outside in this direction. We don't say anything about it because we don't want to be "those" people, but other people might rightfully get upset about it.
But it's a special situation.
Unfortunately, the UK seems to be growing into a nation of anonymous quislings and busybodies.
I suspect they graduate from the same college where nimbyism and armchair warriors are taught their craft.
Intolerance and impatience appear to be the order of things these days; with additional kudos points awarded if one can demonstrate these rather sad traits without the neighbours finding out who was responsible.
In all honesty, the state of the road and pavement would not phase me or make me suspect anything was different about that place. In many cities and towns, small local access roads like this one are not as well maintained as the traffic flow is so low, it doesn't warrant it. And again, to be honest, I've been along "adopted" roads that are main arteries in a town or city in far worse condition. So I don't blame your son for not realising it was an unadopted road.
Regardless, the combative nature of the residents is unwarranted. They have no signage up, no notices. No paint on the road to assist drivers. If they are that sensitive about people parking there, a simple "Private road, residents parking only" sign at the entrance would stop a lot of hassle!
The coach company my dad used to work for was right at the end of an unadopted road, it was absolutely littered in holes to the point it was more a slalom to get to the enterance than it was to drive. (proper "Vicar of Dibley" comedy scene deep holes too)
The businesses on the road wanted to put money together to have it properly filled and tarmaced, but as one of the businesses refused to chip in it was left in it's damaged state.
Coach company ended up having to move as it was damaging their coaches so much.
If it was causing damage to my property (i.e. coaches), I'd have brought it to the attention of the local authority for possible Section 230 (urgent repairs to private streets) consideration.
I've been a few places where the owners purposely kept some potholes as a natural deterrent to bad driving
Ashley Neal goes on a Fact Hunt and gets a comment from Guru Larry.... that in itself is proof that artistry on UA-cam is not just limited to the video content!
@@dfar2303 You're wrong here s230(1) says: "Where repairs are needed to obviate danger to traffic in a private street the street works authority may by notice require the owners of the premises fronting the street to execute, within such time as may be specified in the notice, such repairs as may be so specified."
It means the council should serve notice on the adjacent property owner to repair the road (and if they don't comply s230 goes on to say the council can intervene and then bill the property fronting that section of damaged road for fixing it.) There is no risk that the council is "adopting it".
I lived on an unadopted road for 5 years. As I understood it, we owned the road in front of our property, out to the midline. We were pretty chill about it, after an initial period of being Cone People lol. Luckily we were near an end corner with plenty of spare spaces if we found the spaces outside our house full.
One of my neighbours had a terrace with space for just one car in front. Someone abandoned a car which had its tax and insurance expire in the 18 months it lay there. But since it's not a council road, neither the council or police/DVLA cared. In the end 'someone' broke into the derelict and wheeled it onto the nearest council street, where it was fairly quickly towed and I guess scrapped, at the council's expense.
There is a legal process for dealing with that. A friend had a car abandoned on a communal parking area for his block of flats, and he somehow (I don't know the details) applied to get it marked as abandoned. He then took ownership and had it towed. I think he actually made a profit due to scrap, but it wasn't worth the hassle, obviously!
You can acquire abandoned items legally here in the Netherlands. Just need to file it as a lost item with the municipality and after a full year you become the owner.
That's how in my previous house, an appartment, I became the owner of 5 bicycles and a moped that a thief had dumped there and was dumping more. Asked police to investigate if an owner was known, it wasn't. When the one year term expired I sold them as scrap and the moped for parts. Made about 150 on it.
Several other stolen bicycles that were dropped there for later fencing, also disappeared that day just as the scrap dealer dropped by, but obviously I know nothing about how that could've happened. 😆
Now if the thief or original owner shows up later, nothing they can do as they abandoned the items legally and lost ownership.
When you mention trespass it is important to note that there are two types of trespass, criminal and civil. Criminal trespass is when you cause damage to property to gain entry, like cutting a bolt on a locked gate, but the case of parking on an un-adopted road comes under civil trespass and to get any redress the owners of the land would have to take you to court. In mitigation of your action would be whether it was made obvious to you that you were entering private land. In this case with Ashley there are no signs whatsoever to tell you that so a court action would fail completely. Anything like the owner using force to get you to move or damage done to your car would be a criminal act in itself and should be reported to the police who should then gather information for a prosecution.
a private car park is also a private road and for say any changes to be civilly enforced there would need to be a clear notice
The police only report matters for prosecution ; they do not prosecute themselves - that is the role of the Procurator Fiscal .
The two types are simple trespass and aggravated trespass. Aggravated is the criminal one and requires actively stopping people going about their business on the property. So gluing yourself to doors and blocking the entrance is aggravated. Standing one foot inside the property is simple trespass.
@@derekheeps1244 In England it is the CPS.
@@derekheeps1244 There is no such thing as a Procurator Fiscal in England or Wales; that's part of the Scottish legal system. Criminal prosecution in England and Wales for more serious offences are in the realm of the Crown Prosecution Service. However, for simple motoring offences the police can issue fixed penalty notices and, unless contested they don't go near the CPS unless contested in court. They were introduced for parking offences in the first place (in the 1950s).
Ashley, might be worth you talking with Blackbelt Barrister on YT about it... for the legal side anyway.. he might be able to shed more light on what classes as trespass, long term parking, etc..
I know he watches some of my content, so I’d be interested in a follow up from the legal side 👍🏼
Good idea! I was going to suggest him too! 🤺
I wonder how much crossover there is between subscribers with these two channels. BBB is as fascinating and informative as Ashley.
@@PedroConejo1939 quite a bit I’d say, both channels informative and well presented.
@@ashley_neal I'm sure his last video's comment section just got spammed with your viewers, telling him to come here... give it time haha
Why could the guy politely explain the situation and ask your son to move?
There is no need to be aggressively rude towards people especially if it's a genuine mistake - a firm but *POLITE* word works far better
Absolutely spot on Keith. Resident could have been friendly and polite about the whole matter. Perhaps even empathizing with the driver by adding something along the lines of "I totally appreciate it's not signed or a well known rule, so I completely understand you didn't know. But thanks for your co operation and have a good day".
In this case, I certainly believe that Ashley's lad would have been 100% polite and unaggressive. I'm even more convinced since Ashley talks of the repeated aggressive attitude when he went back with his lad to figure it out. The fact that Ashley then reported the incident to the Police speaks volumes - we all know that's not what Ash usually does unless there are *exceptional* circumstances.
But it's also easy to forget that people in the wrong (however inadvertantly) often become aggressive when challenged. It's a mark of today's society (and it may have always been that way!). The resident may well be the person that the residents have officially appointed to "police" the road. Perhaps he's had countless instances of abuse despite using the polite approach, and abandoned the tactic? I can certainly see why such a person would become jaded after continually being abused for a reasonable request, and might approach at "full battle stations" after a while. The truth is that we simply don't know.
@@cargy930 aggressive never benefits anybody, and be aggressive to the wrong person......
I never claimed it was of any benefit. I merely proposed an explanation for *why* they were aggressive.
But, perhaps you're conflating "aggressive" to mean "physically aggressive"? That would be a different thing entirely.
So, If you're saying don't get physical, then I agree.
But you can't expect other human beings to never talk in an angry or annoyed manner, because the world doen't work like that - No matter how much better it would be if it did.
@@kirkhamandy He might well be. But there's no law against those sorts of people, or that sort of attitude. We just have to live with 'em and make the best of it.
That camera is so weird! Just looks like you’re walking around with ya arm out! 😂 Thx for the info Ash’ 👍🏻
~Doesn't it!. I finally worked out that the camera knows that there is a selfie stick there and somehow edits it out!!
Interesting video! I would avoid using the ultra-wide angle shot from the 360 camera though, especially while moving around, it was a bit nausiating for me... When you zoomed in more it was fine, but when it was around 180deg I had to look away
Yes this was a distraction in the video for me. It just looks weird and makes you feel a bit sick.
think what did it for me was how the pole was somehow removed but could see both hands
Agreed. The 180 camera was very distracting and I literally wanted to turn the video off. But equally, I was interested in the subject matter, so I persevered. However, I would not like many more videos to be shot in this way.
Yeah it made me feel slightly sick too
Same here….I nearly switched off.
If you think those pavements and roads are bad you should see most of our *adopted* roads in Glasgow! I’m going to get pulled over for appearing to be “driving drunk” as I have to swerve so much just to keep my suspension in one piece.
My area in Glasgow has more potholes than road, and the curb has more jagged parts than a broken window.
@@iJ4K3v it’s a scandal. Try reporting them through that broken app, they don’t care. They ALWAYS come back to say “won’t fix, not deemed dangerous” even though it’s a hole big enough to fit an entire wheel.
And if they do “fix” them, all they do is pour a blob of bitumen into the hole. They don’t even flatten it. And it takes 3 workmen a whole day to do it 🤔
Maybe the reason is residents don't want other people using it, though everywhere you go even for burglars you have a bound duty to make sure its safe for visitors uninvited or not or it securely fenced off.
😂 I’ve been pulled over for that before
The law is different in Scotland. I'm sure you could still sue the residents for busted suspension if you hit a big pothole too fast though.
It is exactly the same attitude as you get from drivers. There is never no understanding or empathy.
My first thoughts is always "This guy has made a mistake, it happens" there is no need to beep unless you are trying to let someone know you are there and it is the same with this road. The note on it's own would suffice just to let someone know but then they had to come out and have a go aswell.
I work as a delivery driver for takeaways quite often and every so often i might need to park in front of someones drive for 30 seconds 1 minute at the absolute most. But i still get people coming out and having a go about it every so often. I just think, what does it matter?
I think the problem with parking across someone's driveway for a short time is that they don't know that you are only going to be there briefly, and may be worried about being blocked in. I can understand them coming out to check, but there is no reason for them to be irate about it!
Worked for one of highway agencies down South for a few years. Unadopted can, but does not always mean private, quite often it can just mean that the signage, drainage, maintenance, street lighting etc. is not the responsibility of the local authority. Quite often unadopted roads were a cause of disputes where surface water was draining on to the adopted highway or gravel finding it way on to the adjacent highway. Owners were often shocked at how much I could charge them for putting this right.
Good points you made there matey
Well, you learn something new every day! Thanks for that useful video Ashley. I had never looked into what the full meaning of "unadopted" means!
Love that you're a techy dude, really adds another layer to the content! Constantly improving quality and trying new tech is great.
I don’t know the layout here vs where your son’s car was parked, but if the school shares, has rights of access over, part owns the road and/or has obligations for the upkeep of the road as well, its employees may well have rights to use and park on it - in the same way as other residents of that road. Depends on the rights and covenants applicable to the land. Preventing someone (such as your son) from lawfully doing so (as the other resident referenced was attempting) could also be a tort against the person attempting to park.
thats a good point, its always one reasons why i was wondering, if the residents are so worried and upset about people parking on the road why havent then put a gate or something but it might be the case that the school also has a right a so if they did put a gate then that would stop the school from using (and other residents who may not want a gate) frrom using it. might be evidence that the school has a right (or are part owners) and as you mentioned they can allow employees or visitors to also use the road (however it would depend on their right to use/ownership and specific wording) it be interest to read through the title/legal documents of the road and school as that would tell us
In the 80's I parked my 1959 long wheelbase Land Rover in a normal residential street in Tunbridge Wells and someone came out and said I couldn't park there as my car was old! I was visiting a property there and had been invited.
When I was an instructor I used to use a particular road for the turn in the road (remember that!). It looked just like any other road but without fail this elderly lady would come out and tell me was a private road and I couldn’t use it. When asking her why she said ‘because I say so’. Eventually she complained to the dreaded DVSA and was told not to use it.
One of the schools I used to teach students from had a similar situation. Students used to park on this ‘private’ road until one of the residents came out with a rattle can and sprayed bright red paint over the students cars. Surely that was criminal damage but as so often happens the police wouldn’t do anything about it.
I've lived on a private road for many years. Luckily, the location of the road means it isn't actually a useful location for anyone to park unless you are visiting one of the properties on it. All of our street signs have a sign under them saying "PRIVATE ROAD - RESIDENTS ONLY", which this road seems to lack. This, I think, is key. If they decided to take your student to court, your student would have a reasonable defence in not knowing the road was unadopted, which would be supported by the lack of signage. However, it is important to note that is your student or you can be proven to be aware of the road's status (ie. if they could prove they had already told you once), you would be liable. I also think the homeowner could have been more polite if the story is accurate - I would start with a simple "Excuse me, are you aware that this is an unadopted road?" and work from there.
(It is worth noting that private and unadopted roads are, to my understanding, distinguished from each other by the latter being a right of way for motorists, but with both types, the residents are responsible for maintaining the road. If the residents don't maintain the road, they can be sent a letter from the council asking them to, and after a reasonable period, the council will do it themselves and send them the bill. We are lucky, as our road was built in the war and is essentially made of 12 inch thick slabs of concrete, which on one notable occasion persuaded the workmen of one of the utility companies ask our neighbours if they could dig up their garden and get at it from the side. - I digress)
There are also unadopted bridleways. Right of way for pedestrians and horses, but not for cars except for access by the occupier or guests, mail delivery, etc
If there's no signage then theres an implied right of access - since no distinction can be made between this or a public road. Hence no trespass until asked to leave by the landowner (who may be a resident, but it might be a management company who would then need to action anything). As for defences, this would be a civil tort, so there isn't such a thing as a defence, the question would be if any loss was caused to the owner. It would be hard to prove any actual was loss suffered by having a car parked on the street, hence no damages to award.
Interesting. Do speed limits apply on unadopted roads? What about the requirement that your vehicle must be taxed and insured, or that you hold a driving licence?
If a road has public access it is governed by the road traffic act 👍🏼
IANAL but my understanding is that a licence is for driving on public roads, however the legal system has a particular view on what "public" means. For instance, a shop is a private place in that it is owned by a person or a business but for the purposes of law it would be classed as a public place when it was open. Unadopted roads would be similar, if you can drive straight on to them from a public road then I would guess that they would be classed as public areas and all the usual rules apply. This is just my guess though.
@@geoffclements269 Yeah suppose having a barrier makes the difference, probably why farmers love gates.
It is very interesting because a legal speed limit can only be created by a Traffic Order. Just whacking up signs doesn't cut it. A good example of this is the M6 toll road: It's effectively a private road to which the public has access. It still requires a traffic order to create a limit that the Police are able to enforce.
I was always curious about this when working on a contract in Weston Super Mare a couple of years ago. There’s a road there, Runway Road, that has (or at least had) a 10mph limit. It is a busy main road and no one does 10mph there. Locals basically said it’s an unadopted road and not to follow the speed limits. I just felt that put me in a really difficult position where 10mph would have been ridiculous and probably cause unsafe overtaking, yet I would be speeding by quite a margin to do 30. So I sort of hedged my bets at about 25.
Although probably a liability issue, I felt it was unsafe and undesirable to have speed limits that no one was going to follows. It undermines all speed limits. There was nothing different about this road to suggest normal rules did not apply.
It's one thing to have an issue with someone parking, it's a whole other thing to be aggressive and threatening regarding it.
Lived on an adopted cul de sac when I was a kid. Believe me, this road is in excellent condition compared to ours. It never got repaired because nobody could ever agree on who should pay what; there was a garage (business) which used the road extensively and really needed to pay a larger amount, as would the pub at the entrance. Most of the residents wanted it adopted, but the council wouldn’t - presumably because they would have had to repair it! The pub once offered to repair the road in full if they could use it as a car park. We told them to do one, given that most of their clients already treat it as such…
Two of my friends live in separate private roads near where I live. The signage is crystal clear that they are private and parking is not allowed. They are also in much better condition.
That is my biggest take home from this video: There is nothing to indicate that this is a private road. The lack of signs doesn't mean it *isn't* one, but how in heck are others supposed to know? Maybe the residents should chip in for some signage rather than expect others to be psychic!
@@cargy930 Unadopted roads and private roads are completely different. Unadopted roads have full public access rights.
Near us a group of residents on an unadopted road got clear signs put up claiming it was private and a parking firm in and started issuing fines (and permits for residents).
A month or two later it was all stripped out and refunds given as they did not have the right to do it.
It all depends on leases, easements, prescriptions etc and has to be looked at on a case by case basis.
The only time I have come across an unadopted road was in London where there was both a notice that stated the road was "Private and Unadopted" and at each end of the piece of road which was unadopted there was a closable and lockable barrier, although I never ever came across it closed. I live on a publicly maintained road, where there is generally parking for one, and at most two cars for each house, and some of the residents are likely to leave a note on a car parked in front of their property asking that you not park there again because such parking caused the resident inconvenience. The only time I have been told not to park where parking is allowed on the road was by Wallasey Town Hall,when I had travelled to the Wirral to go fishing.
As someone who used to hold an HGV licence, I say congratulations to you for taking your HGV Test. I feel that too many car drivers do not understand how much space an HGV needs to manoeuvre.
I would appreciate your explaining when and if a light goods vehicle (EG Mercedes Sprinter) can obstruct the highway when making a delivery. For added information, we live in a cul-de-sac with a narrow (16 foot wide) entrance road. Some residents park their cars on the pavement, and supermarket delivery vans have been known to block access to the properties further away from the access while making deliveries, and basically, if challenged, say that what they do is permitted by the Highway Code. Thanks in anticipation.
Whenever I've seen an unsupported road it's been signed as "unadopted road no parking" or "private road no parking".
The nearest was across the street from me, but it now has gates on it and is now obviously private property: it would be totally ignorant to park there now
I’m not going to comment on the ins and outs of your incident, other than to say that if they live by a school then they’ve probably had many issues with people parking poorly! Glad it didn’t escalate.
Thanks for the info on unadopted roads. We are shortly going to move into a new build. The main roads on the development will be adopted but quite a few of the side roads aren’t (it’s quite common for new estates as it costs developers a lot of money to get them all adopted so they don’t bother with the smaller roads ) so I knew a little about them but not the legal side so that’s very interesting. I think, in practice, it’s basically going to be a cul-de-sac type road which all the residents will share upkeep for, so there shouldn’t be any cause for anyone else to park there for any length of time (save the obvious ones such as builders/visitors/emergency vehicles etc).
"This is MY road! You can't park that Ambulance there, you idiots!!" I imagine this being bellowed Brian Blessed style at some point on that cul-de-sac.
@@dylandajhharwood5566 What I didn't articulate very well is that there is unlikely to be an issue such as the one in Ashley's video due to the type of road it is.
If you were implying that that is something I might say then that's actually quite amusing but not for the reason you might think.
I had a similar experience when I had pulled into a side road in order to access a petrol station, I couldn't see from the main road that the petrol station was temporarily closed with cones, so I thought ah no problem I will just turn around in this road ahead of me as I couldn't turn around in the small area which my car was in currently, that's when a man walked out and very aggressively claiming his road was private and refused to let me turn around as if my presence was an insult to him and insisted I reversed on to an extremely busy main road which often has cars driving at 40 mph+, I did not feel comfortable doing this as I did not deem this a safe manoeuvre, anyway luckily a bloke working in the petrol station walked by so I asked if I could turn around on the forecourt, he said yes and moved the cones for me, this was a well maintained tarmac road, my small seat Leon would have done no damage to his road
That ultra wide angle lens and the distorting of the picture was really jarring and giving me a headache. I couldn't finish the video, which was a shame as I was enjoying the discussion.
if you think Brook Rd in Maghull is bad, you ought to try Flaxfield Rd in Formby (on the right, as you enter from Tescos). Unlike Brook Rd, that genuinely can be used as a cut-through if traffic is backed-up, but it would take a brave man to try. Great if you want to give your pupils some experience of navigating the Somme battlefield after a bombardment. I'm sure the residents keep it that way as a discouragement. Nice use of the Insta360 invisible selfie stick BTW. ;)
There's one in Bebington like that, fortunately it's just a small dead end road so only the residents have to use it lol
With the kind of money that must be invested in those giant houses, you would think they could spring for a few signs. The fact that the road is in such a state is immaterial - residents will generally be driving Range Rovers / Audit Q7s etc...
A lot of parents near us got very upset when they were asked not to park in the pub car park
when picking their darlings up from school. They thought it was their right to park wherever
they liked.
We had that at our old office. All spaces getting blocked, clearly marked, behind a gate. We ended up having to wheelclamp a lot of them and even had to knock out one of the pretty princes whose divine right to park everywhere we'd infringed on.
One parked right in the entrance of the gate as I was driving behind him. Just in maybe 50 cm, then stop and park and get out blocking the entire way in. So I asked him if he was serious. He ignored me and said "It's only for a while". So I locked the gate, parked in front of his car on the other side and kept it locked until 11.30 as he was outside bounching up and down, calling his employer that he was late and looking for who had the keys.
When I went to open the gate he was actually still angry somehow, I couldn't resist telling him "Oh, it was only for a while".
As a (former) local councillor, I was aware that some of the roads in my area were unadopted. For one particular road, this was because local residents would have preferred that that the road be adopted and there was a long running campaign by residents to try and find the developer and force them to bring the road to an adoptable standard. Unadopted roads are not maintained by any local council, do not have to be gritted in snow or ice, dont have to be repaired by any authority and even street lighting is an issue. I was aware that such roads were effectively in the ownership of the residents whether they wanted it or not. I have never come across the parking/right to park issue and I suspect the residents of the road I'm thinking of, dont know that either. I (or rather the council's officers) did find out that the road has to be of a certain standard to be adopted. If and until that standard is reached and adoption is applied for and agreed, it will remain up to the residents to maintain it.
I would prefer my road to be adopted. It's full of potholes and no-one will put hands in pockets to fix it.
Very interesting Ash. Never heard of an adopted road in my life. Which begs the question, without signage, how is the general public reasonably supposed to know? And as you eluded to, it seems the residents would rather not have signage and just come out to aggressively confront members of the public. Power trip indeed! Glad you reported this to the Police Ash.
So if it's illegal for the public to park on an adopted road, what about driving up and down it? Or indeed cycling or walking along it? I was almost expecting a stroppy resident to come out and ask you what you are doing there and why you are filming. Honestly, the whole fuss seems so uneccassry to me. I wonder how law abiding any of the residents are when driving.
If they care that much why don't they take some care in making it look good and safe for people.
Sounds like a self-important guy on a power trip. Hopefully, the other residents are not like that. But it is confusing as to why no signs are up.
at a glance on google, its down the road owners if the public has right of use over an adopted road or not (private road means private however). However, with no signage, it could be assumed that both right of way and parking is allowed. In fact, in this situation with Ashley, whose to say that the aggressive man speaks on behalf of the 'frontagers', the other frontagers may not care about the access/parking, hence the lack of signs
@@TheDantheman12121 Why should they?
As a resident they probably have to pay for maintenance of the road, why should they pay so other people can park on it?
@@donaldasayers If they're that bothered about it, why can't they chip in for proper signs then? At least they'd have a valid point about people parking there. Otherwise, why would a member of the public think anything other than it was a public road?
I live on an unadopted road and it's quite challenging when non-residents do park on our street. There is a group of flats on a nearby road with no parking and unfortunately the residents use our street as a car park. All of my neighbors have signs in front of their property (myself included) indicating that it is private parking. However, these signs are completely ineffective as most motorists ignore them. We don't shout at anybody, we don't confront anybody because all in all, it doesn't cause any major problems but if in the future more people park here and actual residents have difficulty parking near their properties, we'd have to take action against them.
Ans what would be the action then? Asking as going through exactly the same issue now and there is nothing I can do about it apparently..
@@NA-bt9mx For us, we're allowed to have vehicles towed because we own the property outside our houses.
For you, if it is council land then there's probably not much you can do.
Do the laws on tresspass not say that you have to be informed that you're tresspassing and be asked to leave before the landowner can take any action? e.g. sign, resident telling you, note, etc.
I live on an unadopted road. There is no traceable owner and we can't take ownership of it by adverse possession as it is a highway. Neither the less we have an annual fund to maintain it and we have signage and insurance.
There is no real problem with parking, just the occasional idiot that parks in the turning area at the end ignoring the signs and common sense. They usually stick up a disabled badge like that makes it ok.
Would the people selling the house be ok with people parking up to look at the house?
I’d be pissed if my neighbours were aggressive towards a potential buyer!
They've obviously observed people and their activities for a short while before hand or seen him leave the car and walk to the school.
My wife and I were looking for our lost cat a few years ago. We walked all round the neighbourhood. We ended up walking down a long narrow lane and were challenged by a bloke about it being a private road. He only relented when we explained our situation, but he was still very salty. I guess some people just enjoy having perceived power over others!
Challenged for _walking_ down a lane? I'd be interested in my reaction if that happened to me.
@@Jehannum2000 there was a farmhouse at the end, say no more!
There's a few unadopted roads around where I grew up, all of them had signs stating "private road", and all of them were nothing more than a mud track with a bit of gravel on them.
This one in the video is a lot harder to spot given it is paved (probably in far better condition than most, even in its current state), and has no signage. I would doubt someone would be prosecuted for trespass given that lack of signange, though the process they could be forced to deal with would be bad enough itself.
The interesting fact is that 'unadopted' and 'private' are not the same thing. Unadopted simply means that the residents are responsible for paying the road's (and underlying infrastructure: drains, pipes, cable runs, etc.) maintenance themselves, not that they own it.
@@dlevi67 Indeed, and it can become even more complicated if there is a legal right of way.
Someone with enough money could probably get you a small fine in court but it would cost them like 10 grand.
@Advanced Driving It might even not be private - just unadopted!
There's no excuse for abusive behaviour whatever the circumstances, but, in all probability the unadopted road here will be owned jointly by all the residents. You might not be impressed by someone parking on your own drive (for example) and that's a parallel for what seems to have happened here. Agree fully that the residents would be much better installing a couple of signs at the public access end clarifying the status. Interesting that there seems to be a school at the end of the road. There may well be a right of access over it to reach the school therefore, and indiscriminate parking could be a long running problem for the residents. More good reason to put decent signs in, if so.
In my neck of the woods (east of Leeds) many years ago I saw a police van setting itself up as a speed trap at the end of an unadopted road (parked on the unadopted bit but monitoring the speed of traffic on the highway) but he was moved on by a resident. Didn't have any option but to comply.
Years ago I used to get dragged out to walk the dogs at an ungodly hour.
We would park down a dead end road (no signs that it's "private", ie unadopted) and be gone by 6.50 or 7.00 am at the latest. We started getting notes on the car asking us not to park down there, and one morning, met the writer of the notes who lived in large house (divided into flats, with a tennis court and swimming pool on the grounds) over 200 metres from where we parked.
The level of entitlement of some people is staggering.
Last year I was driving down an unadopted road (this one does have signs up saying "Private", "No Through Road", etc). There was a car in front of me and as he started turning into his driveway, he stopped, blocking my path. I wound down my window as he got out, expecting him to ask my help in moving something blocking his path, or something like that.
"This is a private no through road."
He said.
"I know." I replied, smiling.
"But you're treating it like a through road." He claimed.
"No, I have a pupil who lives near then end. I've taught their next door neighbour, and another person on this section, and a couple more back round the corner." I pointed out (one had refresher lessons, one passed first time, the other 2, second time, they both failed on observation at junctions).
He grudgingly moved his car, but probably watched as I reversed into a driveway further down. I've since taught another pupil nearer his house (who passed first time, earlier this year, and will be teaching her younger brother, when he's 17, too).
My girlfriend, when I first met her, mentioned the Law on unadopted roads, as her mum had had an argument with someone down one, once.
I live on an unadopted road and I have on occasion asked people if they would mind moving when we have had guests due to arrive in the near future and most people did not know that the road was unadopted which as you say is not always signposted. I provided them of details of where they can park and most were happy to move. My road was signposted as Private but the council when renewing the signage left this off. In addition to the information you have provided it is ok to park on a private or unadopted road within 45 feet of an adopted road, this may be where a road changes to/from adopted/unadopted or an unadopted road is at a junction. I always try to be polite and suggest alternate parking areas so not to cause confrontation especially as there is now no longer any signage. Great video and very informative.
This falls into whether the road is a highway and if it is, is it considered a public highway? If it serves a school chances are it is a public highway and it would therefore be very difficult to bring action to stop motorists using it.
The adoption is a moot point as you can have an unadopted public highway, all adoption does is transfer responsibility for repairs to a public authority, usually Council, but could be Highways Agency and enables them to apply Traffic Regulation Orders, such as waiting reatrictions etc to that highway. The same authority can still have powers over unadopted public highways.
Oddly enough i had an issue with this recently! I started going to a local gym but as you reach it the pavement entirely disappears and you have to walk effectively on a bendy road, in the dark with cars driving past occasionally. The gym told us of a back entrance through a private road, much safer! We just walk through the road and cut across the gyms field to get it, perfect. Until recently when heading home and a guy in a truck stops us and says "this is a private road!" "Yes?" "You shouldn't be here!" "Oh? We were told it was fine?" "By who!?" "The gym" he did not seem happy but we were calm and polite so went on our way but he was looking for a fight. We spoke to the gym and they were adamant we can cut through there but my friend doesn't want to start a fight so back to walking on the road. I know this is about parking and driving but what about walking? We never cut through anyones houses, just walk on this road (which is more of a dirt track really) and there are no signs anywhere saying no access except for residents. Thoughts?
If that route has been used by pedestrians for at least 20 years without there ever being a locked gate etc then it's become a public right of way. Otherwise the owner of the land can cut you off
There's an unadopted road in Bebington that used to make this look like the best maintained road on the world. The residents must have chipped in for improvements though as it doesn't look that bad from Google Maps lol
I like these videos where he gets out and wanders around. It's like an episode of neighbours when they go on location.
Seriously though, that camera makes me feel ill
School run mums would be a nightmare for these residents, they don’t care about parking restrictions or safety 😂
That's what I've been thinking. Maybe that resident ran out of politeness long time ago 😂
Quite likely.
Oops, 9:20 should say unadopted. Useful info anyway.
Cant quite put my finger on why, but something tells me this wasn't filmed in December.
Why the delay, legal issues?
Manners cost nothing.
Even if the resident had every right to ask people not to park there, why not be civil about it?
"Excuse me, this is a private road, and we'd prefer that non residents don't park without permission."
Job done.
This isn't difficult.
Also, signage would be a great idea.
Hi Ash
its always interesting to me that road users dont know about adopted/unadopted roads and its not more common place knowledge. One thing i will say is that if a road is private/unadopted not only are you not allowed to park on it. you cannot even drive over the road as well without the consent/legal right from the road owner, so techincally your not allowed to even access or drive on the road as well.
Im a property lawyer who use to do conveyancing (buying and selling properties) and investigating whether roads around the property are adopted or not is a standard (but important) issue. so its something i know about and have to remember that actually its not common knowledge.
The issue is that if your property is at the end of an unadopted road (private road) and the only access is by that single road, but as you noted you dont have the rights of the owner to use the road (to drive over it/park etc) to access your property. Then that means that technically you have no legal rights to access your property at all and it is known as "land locked" e.g. your propety is locked in from land around it and you cannot reach it (at least by a road to drive one) (though there can be legal mechanisims to get access but they are not easy/cheap to do and would involve going to court).
when buying a property you have to ensure that the property is not land locked by either making sure that the road abutting/leading to the property is either adopted (public) so that everyone has a right to use it or that the owner of the road has granted a "legal right" to use the road to access the property. Generally speaking the legal right is given to the "owner of the property" who needs to use the road, so as long as you own the property you will have the right. so when we are buying properties lawyers check with the local authority to see if the roads are adopted, if not we check the property legal title to see if a legal right is granted to use the road to the owner of the property. if none of these are true then we would advise to not buy the property or to get the rights needed from the road owner (you can also get indemnity insurance to cover it but thats another story)
In this scenario however i agree that a normal person would not know what roads are adopted or not ( im a lawyer who knows the issues that doesnt mean I know which roads are adopted or not; nor would I really check if im just driving around or going somwhere; who does?) and the road owner (that resident) should of at least put up signs on the entrance to let people know its a private road and that you are not allowed to park on the road as otherwise its not really tresspassing until you were made aware of it. One thing that is interesting is that by not putting up signs or other methods of letting people know its a private road they may accidently make it a "public right of way"
Generally speaking a "public right of way" means you have granted the public at large a right to use your private road. when a road is "adopted" it is at the same time made a public road which is what technically allows the public to drive over the road and park on it ("adopted" specifically means the local authority maintain the road however it is the act of dedicating the road as "public" which allows people to use i,t this happens at the same time when a road is adopted). However there are circumstances where you can make a road public by accident. one scenario is that if you generally allow the public to use a road unabated without stopping them or telling them its private for over 20 years then the courts may say its a public road "public right of way" because you allowed the public to use the road for so long. From your video it seems like this specific private road leads between 2 other roads (its not a dead end/cul de sac) meaning people (public) might use this road generally when driving since there is nothing stopping them. if the public used the road for 20 years and the owner did not stop anyone or put up signs or a gate etc then 20 years later it might become a public road and then resident couldnt stop anyone driving over it that point. so if the resident wantd to stop that then they should put up signs or a gate etc
One last thing i will say, you mention there is 40,000.00 unadopted roads. However this number is only going in increase so this issue may get worse. When new housing developments and housing estates are built it would be common place for the local authority to adopt the road as soon as the new development was built so the road would be public from day one meaning anyone could use the new roads. However increasingly local authorities cannot afford to maintain new roads so now they choose not to adopt and tell the developer the road should remain private/unadopted and maintained by the residents. So as more and more sites and houses are built it is more and more likely there will be more and more unadopted/private roads so that number will only increase as time goes on so this may crop up again and again.
..... Thank you for coming to my ted talk..... that became a lot longer than i was expecting haha.
also just to cover myself this is of course not legal advice that im providing and just generally some comments 🙂
Too much reading.
Interesting and informative post.👍
Since you are a lawyer I hope that you have a secretary to make sure that abominations such as "should of" don't make it into your professional correspondence!😉 😄
Thankyou, very interesting comment and educational.
I think the law should be quite unambiguous here; if there is no standard signage or erected gate (to spec) then the road should be classed as "Right of Way" to the public, unadopted or not. This should be part of the Highway Code so that drivers should be fully aware of their responsibilities and rights. It is a totally unacceptable situation that road users have to navigate the law of trespass when driving around the city roads. Must say that in Scotland there is no Trespass Law as such but still have the issue of Private Roads, quite frankly no one knows the legality up here either. シ
Does the angry gentleman who chases people away have the authority to do so, if he is not the sole owner of the road?
I’ve long wanted to know this. Thanks Ash. Feel so sorry for anyone using this unsigned road
I was going to question the title of this vid' because I was under the impression that there was no law of "Trespass" in UK.
Fortunately, I checked before I commented and made a fool of myself, because there was a new law passed in 2022 and trespass is now an offence.
Thank you for the info', Ashley and for bringing me up to date. I've now got to find how it works with the Right to Roam legislation.
I agree this often can be petty, but the best approach is to be calm and diplomatic. Explain your situation, and what you're there for. Hopefully you can appeal to their better nature. Start by 'apologising' for any inconvenience. I know this seems like backing down, but it can take the heat out of things, and the resident may have unjustified fears, but you can try to allay them by appearing civil. If you pick a spot that doesn't impede access, this will reduce the chances of friction significantly. They might just be getting annoyed by the frequency of use by 'trespassers'. In any case, appearing friendly can help take the steam out of these situations.
This applies if the person is somewhat reasonable, but the man in question here seems a bit nutty.
The road I grew up on was an unadopted concrete avenue. The ruts and pits were so sharp and deep you'd pop tyres above 10mph, so all the mums and dads were happy to let us play in the road. Great for speed regulation!
I live in unadopted road and we pay a monthly service charge to a property management company which is really HIGH, this covers the lights on night time, the maintenance of the road, collection of any dumped garbage... also digging into our paperwork we found out our contracts say that only two properties which have garden access from our road, have the right to access and NOT to park. We have been through a similar situation, some residents from a nearby road started parking in our road permanently, the issue started happening on weekends, when all the 20 houses in our road have visitors we struggle to find a space because some decided to park there for 5 weeks or sometimes even 8 weeks. We nicely spoke to these people and some apologized and never done it again but some unfortunately didn't.
A friend of mine lives in an unadopted road which is a cul-de-sac, at the end of which is a nursery school. Some of the residents have access to private parking without using the road, so they don't want to pay the very high cost of bringing the road up to standard, and most users, and therefore beneficiaries of any improvement, would be the parents accessing the nursery, who are the ones ripping the road up with their Chelsea tractors twice a day. It seems to be an intractable problem which would only be resolved if the nursery ever closed.
Most housing estates, particularly those built in the past 30 years will be private roads solely provided as access the houses built along the road and therefore unadopted by the local authority. Often you will see a physical demarcation between private and public roads such as a line of cobbles or kerb stones buried buried flush with the surrounding road surface. Others will have the words 'Private Road' indicated on the street sign. Increasingly some private roads are gated instead. Often approach roads and footpaths leading to railway stations are also private. where this is the case you will often see a sign indicating that the road is a private road 'not dedicated to the public' which means that although the public have access, in order to access the railway station, it can be closed without notice at any time.
Equally a private road can be an a track that has never had a hard surface applied.
Sometimes an estate management company is formed to maintain these private roads, and all households served by that road for access, will contribute an agreed sum of money regularly for the upkeep of that road and the common areas of the estate.
Such roads do not come within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act unless they are available to all traffic, and that includes through traffic, which is unlikely. As such, the residents or the estate management company can erect any sign they wish, and do not need a Traffic Regulation Order on order to do so. That applies to yellow lines and traffic signs which themselves do not need to conform to the the standard seen on public roads. However any such sign is not legally enforceable by the police - the owner of the road would need to take enforcement action themselves.
I have a private road running across my garden which just gives access to three other houses and I own the land on both sides of the private road. I have a duty, (according to my house deeds), to share the costs of maintaining the road with three other households and the only thing that I must not do, is to wilfully obstruct said road, and to allow residents, their visitors and any person having business at any of the properties served, unhindered and unlimited access.
Finally should a person have an trip or fall on a private road, they are unlikely to get compensation, since there is no standard to maintain such roads to, and indeed some will be unmade roads anyway, unlike public roads where you could take action against a local authority.
Personally I think the resident's power trip is because they want there to be a positive to living on an unadopted road. Because it's not looked after they can become a right state. The one you walked down looked good compared to some I've seen. I've been down some that are undriveable at more than 5mph. I'm sure they'd much rather it be taken care of by the council and kept in better condition. The residents won't come together to pay for the road to be looked after as they will just argue about how much each they pay. Eg the person at the very beginning of the road who only needs to use a little bit won't want to pay the same amount as the person who lives at the end of the road for example.
I used to walk to one of these unadopted roads near Manchester Airport (Trenchard Drive) for my hobby. Other hobbyists used to drive and park on the road and were questioned by residents. I still visit the area but stand further down away from the road (opposite a car dealer) It got that bad that they have a guy on a moped visiting the road to move people on or even threaten to have the car towed if they don’t move. Another point to mention about parking. I don’t think many drivers know about stopping or parking in front of a driveway or entrance to a property is going against the Highway Code under Parking section 243 and contacting the police can have there car removed.
It is only an offence to block exit from a property, nothing stopping you parking on a dropped curb if nothing is on the driveway afaik.
If someone blocks of access to your drive it isn't really an obstruction because you can still physically park elsewhere, but if you are blocked in it is an obstruction because you are physically prevented from leaving.
Since Brook Road is not a dead end, people could drive down it too. They would be committing the same level of trespass as someone parking for a couple of hours. The key fact that would enable the home owners to take out a civil case against the trespasser would be signage. Lack of it would mean the trespasser would have a valid defence. Another point would be the damage caused or the inconvenience caused - most likely minimal if at all so the compensation would be something like a token £1 but the cost would be in the hundreds if not thousands.
Apart from the issue of unadopted roads, the presence of a nearby school might have had an effect on the local residents. Near where I live, there are frequent disputes between residents and parents using the (public) roads close by to drop off/pick up primary school children, disrupting access to their property etc.
Although some effort was made using double yellow markings by the Council, temporary speed limits at certain times of day etc, it’s been a long term problem. One of the schools happens to have a large supermarket next door, and it appears to me that the store is happy for them to use it, and maybe drop in as a customer around the same time! It’s always a lot quieter there during school holidays.
i love that ashley's camera is just invisible
This is a very important topic.
There are several unadopted roads in the area near my home, in one of which is the excellent MOT and service garage where I have been taking my vehicles for a number of years. The road now has professionally made signs both to indicate that it is a private road and a 20mph speed limit is in force (no cameras yet). The roadside parking area for the garage is also designated for customers only.
Similar signage has also appeared at another road in a nearby village, serving houses, farms, nursing home and a sewage works..
What I do not know is if these roads are actually vehicular rights of way.
I understand that some residents of unadopted roads do not want adoption, because they are then charged thousands of pounds by the council according to the length of their frontage.
One question- If the school shown is accessed by that road, are they not also an owner and therefore entitled to have parking there?
Lewtas Street in Eccles sprung to mind, the street sign (blurred out on Google Streetview) actually says "(Private) Unadopted Road" though.
There's an entire chunk of Wilmslow (Wilmslow Park) that isn't on Streetview at all, with No Motor Vehicles (except for Access) signs at the entrances and some signs citing a Highways act; that's also apparently unadopted, but the road surfaces actually seem pretty decent (at least to my eye walking through) there.
This was an interesting video. We live on an unadopted road, but we are housing association tenants. We have had a few run ins with people blocking our paths, or our turning area because they have stopped there to walk their dogs. There are also a few neighbours who have left their cars outside our house for days on end. I was never sure where we stood as far as our rights, but this has helped.
I'm usually polite, unlike your featured road "owner" and ask them to leave the small space in front of our bungalow so my disabled wife can get to our car - see we can't have a disabled parking space because the road is unadopted. I've put a query into our local council on the back of this video. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
We lived on an unadopted road in Winchester some years back and had responsibility for the path and road (to the midpoint) in front of our property. If you have similar you could then paint on your own disabled parking bay with drop curbs where needed.
You've got a typo on the first caption: it says "an adopted" instead of "unadopted", which changes the meaning entirely.
oops!
One for the Black Belt Barrister.
I have knowingly parked in an unadopted road and no problems. Admittedly it was a short link road and also allowed access to garages and gardens. Now it is a public road and looked after by the local authority.
I live on an unadopted road. I has never ever occurred to me that non residents should not park on the road. I do not think any of the residents view it as a private road. The only issue we have with the road is that the council do not maintain the road surface so the resident occasional fix up some of the potholes that unfortunately develop. I understand that is is unadopted because when the houses were build the developer did not pay for it to be adopted.
The street where I bought my first house was initially un-adopted, the solicitor that did the conveyancing held back some money to cover any repairs that may be necessary. The street had 1.5 car parks for each property plus a 2 car wide turning area, but I don't know of any incident where a non-resident was told not to park.
In Christchurch (NZ) there are plenty of private roads, which is a similar situation, and in my role at the City Council I have no authority in those private roads. I have been on the receiving end of residents frustration when I fail to act when the resident feels they have been wronged and want a Council Officer to take action.
In the Netherlands, we have signs for unadopted roads. It would say Entrance forbidden for unauthorized persons.
Ashley, you did miss one obvious thing - the street lights. A street lighting authority can light ANY road (for public safety/security reasons) including unadopted/private ones, so that is a red herring. The electric comes at little cost (the lights on this road will only be 35 watts or so).and gets lost in the authorities budget.
The street nameplates are usually provided by the Local Council who will almost invariably add "Unadopted" under the nameplate. Also any private road owner will nearly always add "Private" to a nameplate just to dissuade explorers.
It's worth noting that many new build estates are unadopted until the developers decide it's in their interest to get the local authority to take responsibility. We have a development locally with raised ironwork, unsurfaced roads and 30cm kerbs still unadopted 2 years after the last house sold.
My parents road is like this. Council made them remove the sign saying it is private. If the residents kept the Private’ sign, it triggers additional cost for them, that’s why there is no signage. It’s crazy that they also don’t put yellow lines at the sides, because how is anyone to tell.
Weird, I only live about 5 mins away, and have been past this road countless times, but never knew it was classified as such - but it's easy to see why; it's not the biggest surprise.
I work for a Utlilities company and we have to access roads like this all the time to carry our works, and it is a minefield.
There is nothing to give you information until you go onto the legal land registry to identify the terms and conditions of the road in question.
Some roads are private but you still have legal rights of access so you can use the road the same as the highway.
Other roads are genuinely private land and there is no legal right of access unless you have business on site or permission from the users/occupiers of the land.
There are other roads that look like they are private but turn out to be things like Bridal paths, meaning that technically you are not allowed to take any vehicles onto the land at all without the express permission from the local users/occupants on the land.
If in doubt *don’t* park in private roads because a lot of private estates are now starting to employ car towing companies.
[number plate recognition cameras being used to issue parking fines are also becoming common]
If I lived next door to a school and people parked in my driveway while they picked their kids Up I would get pissed off pretty quick.
I expect it the same when to live on an estate with private roads, the road is for the use of the residents only, [if you don’t have business to conduct on this land then stay off it.]
That view setting on the camera is horrible
Hey Ashley, just a question. Will you be uploading camera footage recorded by Tesla Cam?
Yep!
@@ashley_neal Can't wait. I guess new perspectives on situations can be explored?
Got a private parking notice on a road outside a friends that is similar. A new estate where the main road through it is adopted but the rest not. I suspect the developer pulled a fast one and did a quality road that the council refused to adopt. Have some sympathy with the residents as people park to go to the nearby park (or school in your son's case). I was visiting a mate. They had signage up, but absolutely none that any reasonable driver would have been able to see. Got it squashed, but that is always a pain. I actually got a second ticket from them for parking on a bit of road that I new was in fact adopted! No marking to indicate that you've entered a private road, no yellow lines or time of use, no no parking sign. In fact they did everything on the estate to make the road look like a council road. The road name signs even had the local council name emblazoned on them. You'd think it would be cheaper to add "Private Road". The private parking signage was on the opposite side of the road. So someone thinking this is an adopted road, sees no restrictions on the side they're parking, while the ant sized writing was on a pole nowhere near my car. I suspect just adding private parking, and putting some proper no parking signs up (even without the right to enforce them) would have solved most of their problem without the angst.
Its quite interesting, I act for developers as a solicitor (but dont worry im not the first to defend developer actions and misconduct, however most of my clients are decent developers and human beings generally lol who try to do the right thing (which is rare i know)) but its interesting the point you mention about developer pulling a fast one and council refusing to adopt. From what I see its actually the opposite. In a lot of cases now Councils do not have the money to maintain more and more roads. Though yes new developments mean more council tax unforunately the tax does not cover the ever increasing costs of the Councils as with more houses/flats also mean increase costs.
As such many now say to developers that they wont adopt the roads and they have to remain private and as such the developers then leave it to the residents to maintain. its rare developers keep the road as it really doesnt provide much benefit and only adds more liabilty (if someone hurts themsleves on the road then the developer could be liable) so more so than not they transfer the road to the residents ( or to a company which will be owned by the residents usually a residents management company) so yeah i think there needs to be more down to get councils to adopt the roads even if that means increasing council tax maybe for the residents by the road in question so they pay a bit more to keep it maintained but then at least the council can own and deal with road properly
I live on an un-adopted road in Wakefield city centre (new build estate, so due to be adopted soon by the council. Apparently the law is the construction company who builds these new estates must maintain the roads for 3 years before the council take over).
There are signs all over the estate warning that its private land and that fines will be given etc and you need a permit to park, so we don't get any non-residents parking here. But that's only happened relatively recently - before these signs threatening fines there were only signs saying "Private road", and city centre workers/commuters from the nearby train station really took the p***! It got to a point where that many cars were cramming themselves into the estate that bin lorries couldn't get in and rats were infesting the bins. If a fire engine or other emergency needed to get in they would've had no chance either.
So I get why some people get irritated as I've been on the receiving end of when it gets really out of hand. But on streets like the one you're showing in some sleepy suburb, with no warning signs, I think residents really ought to use a bit of common sense and ask themselves if the odd car is really affecting anyone. And if they can't be reasonable, put up some signs!
I currently live on a private/unadopted road, which is actually sign posted with “Private Road, No Public Access”. To say it’s in bad condition doesn’t really come close, as it’s literally a single track gravel road which gives access to 13 houses. The bottom of the road disappears off the end of the east coast, so we don’t really have a problem with cars, more folk wanting to get access to the beach, but the principal is the same. Since we put up signs saying “No Beach Access”, the problem has pretty much gone.
So signs are definitely a simple answer to the question
I had a situation occur very similar to what you described happening to your lad. I am unsure whether the road was public or unadopted , though I am fairly certain it was a public road, in a small quiet avenue. A resident came out to question me on why I was parking there, which struck me as very strange. Coming from living close to a city centre, I had only ever known parking to be a free-for-all. However this quiet rural avenue seemed to be much more concerned with parking. In the end when I returned to my car several residents accosted me and harassed me, telling me to go and park where I came from etc. In the end for fear of my car being vandalised I opted to move it to another much busier street which I had wanted to avoid parking on. To this day I still reflect back on their abuse as nothing short of bullying. I do not enjoy it when people park outside my house but I understand that all have a right to a public road and get on with living my life, apparently not all think the same way
I once parked on a unadopted road as everyone else was doing the same as it was fireworks night and the road next to the park was private. The year after the police had to physically block the road to stop residents from parking there. Now they have full signposting saying private road access for residents and visitors only.
Around here the term is more "Private Road" (Privatweg), and they usually have some signage about who is allowed to use them and and how.
I live on an unadopted road and parking by non residents can become a nightmare. It didn't used to be, but we ended up with people parking uninvited and even declaring their cars SORN and local firms using it to park commercial vehicles. We had to put signs up to prevent it, sometimes to no avail. Even had an incident where an ambulance couldn't access a resident in need. If people were aware and used it reasonably there wouldn't have been a problem but people are people after all.
You're making us all pine for better weather Ash 😎👍
There were unadopted roads near where I grew up in Edinburgh. The roads very like those in the video - partially cobbled and very rough. The houses were large one-off architect-designed builds, so no developer putting in the roads. They were all Edwardian era. The roads weren’t private - the one I’m thinking of joined two adopted roads together, so probably an original right of way. I’m now in my fifties and those roads have not changed at all - essentially farm roads from the late 19th century and earlier. Parking never seemed to be an issue, but each house was set back from the road and had drives that would have allowed residents to park their cars off-road anyway. I heard that the cost of getting a local authority to adopt a road retrospectively is, unsurprisingly, astronomical - so that, combined with trying to get residents to agree, leads to inaction.
I put a sign up to say our road was”Private. Residents Only “ and someone took it of the post, put there by the council that it is “ Cul de sac” I cannot put it back, as I am elderly, and paid to put it up. I’ve had large vehicles parked for a year outside my house, preventing my entrance and exit, and only get sworn at.
our old office used to be on an unadopted road that the residents were responsible for. The council were still able to put a traffic management order and parking meters. Unadopted doesnt mean the road is unable to be treated as a normal road.
Where I live, the street name signs have, in smallervletters below the name, the words Private Road or Unadopted Road. But apart from those on private land, like the approach to my local railway station, there are no signs or markings showing any restrictions.
I live on an unadopted road. I own the freehold on my house and the land it stands on and on a separate rectangle of "associated land" which is my parking space. Each of the other houses on the road has it's own space too. If people park in my space I politely ask them not to, either in person or by leaving a polite note on their windscreen. I've never felt the need to get confrontational and it's always resolved itself. I only rarely have issues with people parking in my space so I haven't put up any signs or barriers to deter people, but I would certainly do that first before I started having a go at anyone.
I have had issues parking on public roads near my local train station. The residents have the option to ask the council to put in parking restrictions and issue permits, but then they would have to pay for their permit. So, as a result of their own choice, they have to tolerate on-street parking by people who are getting the train - this doesn't stop them parking, but it may mean they sometimes have to park a little way away from their house. Some of them leave cones out on the road protecting what they see as "their" parking space but, of course, they don't own the road. I am often tempted to move the cones out of the way and park, but I am worried that the kind of person who thinks he owns part of the road would probably think nothing of vandalising my car if I did that. It's a shame because I don't like to let bullies win.
Very interesting. I'd never heard of an unadopted road before.
Where I live almost every cul de sac is unadopted . Easy to spot. The roads are terrible condition.
Where I lived as a kid there was an unadopted road, it was a pot hole ridden gravely mess with only one end open for cars but had a path at other end for foot access, you could pretty much lie in some of the holes, at the entrance the signpost clearly said 'unadopted road', I think it was tarmaced since I last walked down it.
My wife and I can't actually have roads naturally so this unadopted one would be so very welcomed in our household. We would take such good care of it. Brook is such a nice name too.
I used to own a house in an unadopted road. All is residents had equal share ownership of the road. Parking was limited so we had signs up to inform that it was residents parking only. In ten years of ownership I only spoke to random people parking a couple of times. But always remained pleasant, and likened the small section of road to being the “driveway” for our houses. Both were very understanding, smiles all round. Although technically trespassing, this isn’t enforceable in England. Only aggravated trespass (remaining after being asked to leave) is.
Had that situation once in Scotland, several (new) houses in a Cul De Sac, no signs of course and accessible directly to roadway. Was actually on business with one of the householders.
But this chap came out "Blah blah can't park here buddy. etc" I argued somewhat but did not want to create any animosity with my client and this neighbor so I just went out into the public highway and parked there. Yip really they should politely state, "Hello this is a Private Road and UNLESS you have business here can;t park chum" That would be more reasonable. In the end why don't they just stick up a Private Road sign, would save a lot of inconvenience!
I would have thought visiting a property (the school) on the unadopted road would entitle you to park on the road. Maybe one for the Black Belt Barrister.
Not if they have just a right of way and not an additional right to park -- these are separate rights ("easements") in English land law.
Right of way would entitle the school and it's staff pupils etc to access and egress (leave) over the road, but not to linger on it for longer than reasonably needed to pass along it...
They can be a nightmare for the residents who live on or back onto one, it only takes one of the residences to say, “no I’m not paying for resurfacing works” or the likes, that every one else just gives up or does their little bit, which then causes issues with water run off or potholes getting worse along the track/road. I know this as we had one at the back of our house, it was a dead end so no through traffic but the gypsy’s would dump their bloody rubbish all over the lane constantly, the only positive was, never had issues with random parked cars and there was an understanding that we all parked out side our own garages/gardens.
I know of a road where the power had been strung overhead, and the residents decided they all wanted it underground, except one lady kept refusing, and on pressing her, she finally revealed she didn't have the funds to pay for her house to be upgraded. so the rest of the residents decided to just pay a bit more to get hers fixed for her. problem sorted.