How the Clutch Claw Ruined Iceborne - Heavy Wings
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
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Monster Hunter World was a very good game. It's expansion, Iceborne was not, and it's all thanks to one big addition. Remember to like and subscribe.
Contents
0:00 Introduction
0:32 Monster Hunter World's Combat
4:33 The Problems with the Clutch Claw
9:28 How the Clutch Claw is Forced Upon You
14:51 How the Wirebug Avoided the Claw's Mistakes
19:42 Ruined Iceborne, Really?
21:16 Conclusion
Iceborne Community Edition
github.com/AsteriskAmpersand/... - Ігри
Check out this video where I explain why I believe 4 Ultimate to be the best Monster Hunter game!
ua-cam.com/video/rc6Y-SDmfdQ/v-deo.html
I feel Cluth claw gave us the best way a practical human being can get close to a Bigass monster which are always moving faster being bigger.. the Worse thing is wirebugs in Rise and monster riding.. Monster riding removed the ELEGANCE, the Attitude & personality of monster.. Like really ( Riding shagaru magala, Rajang, riding on wind lord Kushala itself fyck off )
@@SpadeApeiron No mechanic should directly affect damage numbers as the game becomes inevitably balanced around it and the mechanic is forced on you. The Clutch Claw should have only increased partbreak damages or been a reasonably powerful attack, which would have felt more of a reward for getting the opening. The Clutch Claw can shatter from the get-go Kulve Taroth's arms and chest gold armor and is the only way to safely punish Alatreon's floor is ice attack. The Clutch Claw should have been focused on stuff like that rather than tenderizing hitzones, which doesn't make sense as clutch claw attacks are average damage at best, why are your regular high damaging attacks not tenderizing too?
@@johan9428 Yea good point
~ Clutch claw mechanic should have had limited uses and when it used tactically it'd be like our SUPER move. in case of safijiva we have to use Clutch claw to partbreak. without clutchclaw Safijiva quest can never be completed..
How iceborne ruined this channel
The expansion was enjoyable, one of the biggest expansions sold in gaming, millions of people love it, except a guy on here who felt like whining about a gimmic in a game where shotguns can be made from a hide of a monster
@@brianleal87 I disagree with Heavy Wings saying that the clutch claw ruined the entire game as I still like it a lot for everything else. But he is right when he says that the tenderizing mechanic is a neat negative which brings nothing good to the gameplay, only makes it more tedious for the sake of it. The tenderizing mechanic is viewed by most players as the worst thing to have ever been implemented in MH. I would personally be fine with the clutch claw without the tenderizing mechanic and all the balancing around it. But the tenderizing mechanic? I hope we never see it or something similar ever again in future games.
Credit where credit is due: The Clutch Claw made fighting certain monsters (*COUGH* KIRIN *COUGH*) actually fun and bearable. Bouncing off of Kirin when it was enraged was not fun. With the clutch claw, all we had to do was make sure to keep it tenderized. It certainly beat trying to aim for the horn in vain.
I agree with this statement can't wait for rise to come to console next year on January 20th 2023
hmm after beaten velkhana 4 times, this was the first time I even heard about cluth claw. XD I'm so blind
@@Felix-dh9tl try beat AT Velkhana without clutch claw lol
@@famicom89 yeah sounds like pain… slamming monsters in the wall is pretty nice
Break horn -people who fight elders.
I wonder if the clutch claw's importance was a result of a lack of focus on singleplayer testing. I felt it was a lot less overbearing when the task of softening was shared between more players. Though to be honest I didn't mind the clutch claw all that much and enjoyed iceborne a lot despite it.
That is a good point. In four players, 1 clagger = 4 tenderized spots. As a solo player, you get one and it is notl like you will have access to this tenderized spot non-stop.
Probably, as a solo hunter, the few time I had one or more people helping made this almost imperceptibly.
The point is that the hunts in IB took too long without tenderizing with clutch claw. The game relied too heavily on clutch claw. Base game was fine.
Despite but not thanks to
I was elemental LBG main in worlds and unless u have some1 softening the right parts for ranged damage u will go 2-4 times per fight to camp to restock ammo or run around farming....
Never realized the clutch claw wasn't part of the base game, I just remember not spamming it as much back when I played it on my brother's PS4, and thinking why I didn't use it as much. Probably cause it didn't exist lol.
The mandatory tenderizing is what kills me about clutch claw. They can incorporate clutch claw in different ways but instead they made the hunt more of a chores.
@@Knights_of_the_Nine i think you played a different game if you think clutch claw auto stagger the monster.
Not only they nerf some jewel so they can incorporate tenderizing to the skill, they also ruin the flow of combat by adding clagger to the monster.
And no, I can't pretend the clutch claw is not there if my damage output got downscale because i don't tenderize the monster.
@ilham adi gunawan The only way your damage is "downscaled" by the claw is the WEX nerf. Seeing it as a nerf if you don't use it (instead of a buff if you do) is a pessimistic attitude, which of course would lead you to hate it. And face it, WEX is OP and needed a nerf. Even if you don't use the claw at all, it's still the best skill in the game.
And if you try to say that the nerfed hitzones are a way your damage was downscaled, nerfed monster hitzones to try and force the claw is really just... not a thing. I'm sorry, it's just not. To my knowledge, no base game monsters actually had their hitzones significantly changed going into Iceborne, at least not to the extent to make claw "required" (which it never was). What DID happen was that some monster SUBSPECIES like Coral Pukei-Pukei and Acidic Glavenus ended up with worse overall hitzones than their base species, but that usually happens with subspecies anyway. Plus, even then, those monsters still always had one or more hitzones that was able to get the first part of WEX that didn't require the claw, just like every other monster.
This isn't even mentioning that World was the first game with single player scaling. Outside of base World, Iceborne at the time was literally the easiest MH game to solo, claw or not.
And claggers REALLY don't happen that often at the endgame of Iceborne. Title Update monsters especially almost NEVER clagger, and Fatalis doesn't even have one at all. You're lucky if you get a single clagger to happen on a Rajang or Alatreon.
I could go on, but unless you want to continue the discussion, I won't bother you with a longer comment lol.
(EDIT: I have now actually seen proof that hitzone nerfs were indeed a thing in Iceborne and now feel dumb for claiming they weren't lol. I still maintain my opinion though that they weren't severe enough to make tenderizing "mandatory." The most severe nerfs from what I can tell were on already easy monsters like Pukei-Pukei and Tobi-Kadachi. But something like Rathalos and Rathian's heads were only nerfed by around 5, which isn't a huge difference on an already great hitzone.)
It's not mandatory. You're just Long sword user and you're not given a good option with this system.
Or a bow gun user, or a hunting horn user, or a
@@Andrew-hz5zc firstly, i don't know ehat WEX is, sorry haha
And for your other take, it's fair but the general gist I'm getting at is i still feel even though statistical and system wise it's a minor nerfs, it's still bugs me that everytime my TCS hit, there's a small amount of different in the damage number if i tenderize it or not.
And everytime the monster got to clagger state, i always miss my hit because the state itself demands the player to at least cluch to the monster, either to wallbang it or to tenderize it (or to reset the clagger timer), not to mention how far the monster position are before and while in clagger state. It's aggravating at least for me, and i love my ooga booga big TCS number lol
I think the biggest issue with the clutch claw is tenderizing.
If it had been a tool to grab on for an extra hit with some weapons and for blademaster weapons to get easier hits on flying monsters, I think that would have been a great addition.
Wallbangs are a more gray area in quality, but I think they're cool. I think they should have been nerfed though.
In a sense yeah, but even without the tenderising the claw is just weirdly implemented. The aiming not really working, only some weapons having integrated combos, being thrown off constantly etc. It was not a good idea to add it in the expansion.
@@HeavyWings
Personally, I had little issue with the Claw. Sure it adds tenderizing but as a SnS player often unless I get more chances to do it, I'm better off just finding the other spots to whack a monster. Times I use the claw are
-avoid an attack
-tenderize specific monster spots over time to make certain stuff easier to do, such as Rajang legs in case I just wish to add damage in.
-Extra damage on a fleeing monster
-The Wallbang.
I will say though the big swords should of gotten faster animations for their big tenderizers.
I still prefer the clutch over Wirebugs though anyday. Personally find then very clunky and it wasn't until freaking Narwa that I figured out how they work. Even then, I don't get the shifts, I see people abuse it and get slapped to death, and it ain't my cup of tea.
There's also nothing quite like Alatreon shredding through your mantle when you clutch his head and mercing you. That's a fun anti-claw thing and it naturally plays in with finding openings on the guy.
yeah wallbangs are fun to pull of but it like with Rise.. that can be integrated in the mounting bit.
@@Ramotttholl
I actually don't like mounting in Rise either, and it ties into the general dislike of Wirebugs. I really enjoyed the actual strat of mounting the Monster for a good knockdown in World. Now it's just yeeting around and stuff
Edit; should clarify its specifically the stamina contest. Alatreon and Fatalis are pretty fun to hop on but a mistake can potentially ruin the attempt. Those dashes are brutal.
and the real issue with tenderizing is that they make monsters with dogshit hitzones to balance it out, forcing you to use the clunk claw
The poor integration between all the weapons is the reason why Lance is my favorite weapon in World. The counter feels actually integrated into the moveset and helps keeps the uptime on tenderization without breaking the flow, and the super armor is something all the weapons should have had
You also have a def boost and a resistance to being thrown off if you "counter grab" but i main lance and i will be honest it keep you from sharpening alots
Same with Dual Blades, clutch clawing mid combo meant you never had to stop attacking to aim and grapple on
The hammer combo is pretty cool too but all the other ones are weird or completely breaks the immersion
Insect glaive had a kinda similar system where you would be flying to reposition anyways, so instead of descending thrust you can descending clutch.
Kinda still sucked because you need to tenderize twice
Clutching with the bow is too smooth to complain about and is perfect for dodging sweeping attacks.
As a Lance main, the counter clutch claw move was pure heaven. Just waiting like a Matadore against a charging bull, only to slam right back against their face with KO inducing force. Granted, the application and sheer necessity did get old.
As another lance main, i want this move in mh6 even though the clutch claw will be removed probably
now that i see the lance CC move it makes me think of that one meme with the a dude slowly approaching you with his arm in an open state.
and now i'll never unsee it
The Clutch Claw is why I installed the Iceborne Community Edition (ICE) mod. The modders rebalanced the game to make the CC an optional tool and not mandatory by restoring hitzone values and reducing the effectiveness of softening.
I do mention that mod near the end of the video. I would download it but I want to beat Iceborne as it is at least one more time because the mod rebalances a lot of things.
I wish you could mod console games. That would help a lot in ps4 for me lol
Oh, that's cool!
@@chadderbug7587 same. I have 6k+ hours in World, and honestly, 4u is probably my favorite next to FU.
I remember thinking a few hundred hours in, "I'm not enjoying this like the others," and that was _before_ the clutch claw.
I find I liked MH more as a hunting sim-like. There are videos on how Hunting "lost" its roots that are great teachers of the old ways. I'm rare enough as a PSP solo player convert, but those even fewer I met as PS2 adopters from first and second gen... that would have been my paradise.
I wish I could use it, but reject their Longsword changes...
The wall bangs and attacks weapons got were what I liked about the clutch claw. But the forced tenderizing and being required to do certain things with it for specific monsters got very tedious. So I love the idea of the claw, it’s just the implementation of it is at best mixed.
@@brownboy1468 if we don’t like it, we don’t like it. Simple as. It’s a fucking boring and annoying tool to use. And I don’t like having to stop what I’m doing to tenderize some part or else I’ll miss out on big damage. Don’t tell us to stop complaining over literal personal opinions.
@@brownboy1468 You aren't someone that likes to play with optimization which is fine but for those of us that do the cc is a dogshit addition
@@brownboy1468 Look, I don’t think cc is a huge deal most of the time either and for most monsters, I think it can be largely ignored. But…take a look at a monster like Safi’Jiiva, or Fatalis, these monsters have huge health pools and tiny time limits in comparison to the rest of the monsters. If you don’t use the cc for these monsters, which offer some of the best gear in the game, more likely than not you will NOT be winning and by proxy, not be able to acquire some of the best end game gear
@@bonkusdonkus3743 skill issue
@@setya4540 virgin
For some reason I feel more invested in MH games when the combat is more grounded instead of hunter arts or wirebugs.
Absolutely, I really dislike both of those mechanics. It's also one of the reasons why I didn't really connect with Rise. In Rise you feel more like some superhero/demigod than a Hunter.
@robinmattheussen2395 I know, monsters are punching bags most of the time, and barely any preparation before the quest, no bombs, no meat, traps, flash bombs, just beat it until it dies.
The slinger itself was fine, I especially loved catching endemics and making pets of them, but yeah, needing to tenderize and wall bash every single monster was a chore.
So true. I loved the pets and just got addicted to trying to get all the crowns. Lol. But tenderizing is definitely a chore. Especially on Safi’jiiva. Good grief is that fight just overly tedious.
Tenderizing is a chore yeah, but you don't have to wall bang if you don't want to dude
@@Slepepeit's was? All I can remember is people failing the mission cause they choose to put tenderizing above their own future. Ain't that the reason it gets mad and well... attacks you without chill? So you can't depend on it and actually play the game with the damage you get without tenderizing
@@Cataclysm999 I played the entire game and 100% it without the claw I maybe used it a hand full of times at the very start of the game in the test area, hell I still don't know how to tenderize to this day nor wall bang you can act like it doesn't exist and still be able to do all the content like no joke I've been able to do the hardest hunts in the game solo without ever using the claw the only use I found from it was shooting stuff out of it to keep the monster from fleeing and shooting a environment piece like the huge rock falling.
I only use the claw to hitch a ride on the monster when he is running away then I hop off when low stam. CB user here and I don't need to tenderize shiiiiiet.
You bring up good points but overall, I still like Iceborne's combat more than Sunbreak, because of Rise / Sunbreak's over reliance on counters. You mentioned you like more grounded combat and Rise is very very far from grounded combat, it made hunters feel like superheroes. Not to mention wyvern riding removed the threat of having 2 monsters on the map by making them essentially just a free damage boost instead.
Rise/sunbreak feels more like a God eater title than a mh one, prolly just me tho.
I prefer world's grounded combat and speed, but I really dislike the clutch claw. I have over 1300 hours in iceborne but you'll never see me defend the clutch claw. Sunbreak has its thing with being really fast paced and frontloading a lot of the weapons most powerful attacks to silkbinds, but as a whole I vastly prefer wirebugs over the clutch claw, even though for mh6 I hope they got rid of both. Mh6 should just have world's grounded combat with sunbreaks switch skills and I'll be happy
@@WisdomAkpan211 no, I agree, I didnt like that the clutch claw tenderize because it became mandatory. If it was just an optional damage boost mechanic that hunters can do, it would have been better.
Wirebugs was implemented properly by being a core mechanic, however, it made the whole game to become a DPS fest instead. With almost every weapon having a counter, hunters didnt mind their positioning much anymore, in fact for some of the strongest weapons, they want the monster hit them so they can shortcut into their strongest attacks which to me was kinda backwards thinking. In older games we were rewarded for knowing proper positioning, knowing the monsters AOE but instead in Rise we press a button just before a monster hits and we get rewarded with even more damage.
Overall, I have the same sentiments. Keep only the grounded stuff and bake them into the weapon movesets, remove the silkbind moves (especially the shortcuts which ignore the resource mechanics of weapns and the counters because not every weapon should have a counter IMO) and no clutch claw and claggers (slinger could stay or not, clutch claw could become its own weapon). Having switch skills (not switch skill swap) would expand the movesets too without making the controls too complicated and we can kinda make our own "Styles" but nothing to drastic from the core of the weapons themselves.
@forlogic53 I was looking for the best comment I could find so that I could respond. I agree with your comment in almost every way. But my agreement is primarily about how you articulated the way that IB 'feels' versus Rise. You are absolutely right about how wirebugs changed weapons AND the hunts themselves. Positioning, timing, knowledge of your weapons' capabilities, etc are what made world spectacular. Nothing is the same in rise. (Hell, any time you can pick up a SnS and it has more base raw than a hammer of the same rarity you have a problem).
I only disagree with ppl who do think claw inhibits the flow. I started with the franchise in MHW so cluth claw has always been integrated into my playstyle. I just dislike its' inaccuracy.
I tend to agree, and to be honest, Rise’s combat just wasn’t for me. However, like the video said, it was like that from the beginning. No bait and switch.
10:01 - Seeing this HP chart makes me think that in MH10 monsters will have the same HP as Borderlands raid bosses
Oh Shit. 😨
I know this is an old video, but I am a new player who just got through all of base world with 2 other friends and while the cc felt fine through most of it, as soon as I got to iceborne, I noticed the MESS of design that is the fact that you are supposed to tenderize before being able to do pretty much any damage while also making all the new mobs super fast and reducing all forms of cc you'd use in the base game. It felt like the entire game was made insuferably frustrating and more boring just to force me to use a tool that I already had a mentality of "I need to learn this tool jsut ot have it, even though I don't have to" before. What a mess of a decision, and having 99% of comments online be copium sniffing "no, the game is perfect you're just bad, git gud" stuff is nothing but toxic.
The cc didn't ruin iceborn for me, although the combination of forced tenderization, faster monsters, insane healthpools and frustratingly un-stoppable mobs that constantly cc you back almost made me quit the franchise forever. Had I not had the cool head to realize that this might just be one wall and I need to push through and the entire game/franchise may not be like this, I'd prlly left MH forever at barioth.
Cue all the answers to this comment being like "no, you're just bad, git gud"
Finally, someone who gets it that isnt blinded by World being there first game and thinking its flawless
@@drxavier1870 World is also my first MH game and the moment I set foot in iceborne i said "this feels extremely poor, design wise". Had pretty pleasant experience in base world while iceborne felt so bad, still does. The large increase in HP, mandatory tenderizing, having to wallbang to get the damage in, the fact monsters are so fast that if you play slow weapon (I play CB) you have to wait for an opening which at times takes extremely long (which ties into poor design of massive HP and mandatory tenderizing) unless you create that opening with wallbang or do a 1 attack punish (at most 2) after you learn the moveset of the enemy. Now, learning moveset on your first attempt is not gonna happen, which is normal, so you aren't getting a lot of punishes, and the ones you do get result in very minimal damage overall (taking the entire HP into account, monster speed and their ability to stun you frequently since you don't know their moveset on your first attempt, and even few attempts after that). The amount of times I've said "Can I play the game please?" while going through iceborne is absurd. I don't think I've said that so many times in my 25 years of gaming, that's how poorly designed iceborne is in my opinion. As the good person above said, many might come and say "git gud" but that's just a phrase everyone throws nowadays. Played harder games than this, nothing wrong with not being good as a new player in the game, problem is when not being good in the game as a new player is tied to game being unfair with poor design (stunned into cart because on the same move that killed you, monster attacked after 2 seconds the first time, but second time it attacked after 4, since you decided to wait the full duration of getting up) and not your skill. The problem isn't getting gud, you get good by playing more and learning, problem is if gameplay itself isn't good/doesn't feel good, which is how iceborne feels. Apparently, to capcom, increasing the difficulty means this: Make monster extremely fast, give it large HP and make it attack non stop for 1-2 minutes. Again, you will find openings in those monsters after you have learned their moveset, but it's not a good design if only openings you find that aren't 1 attack punish for 50-100 damage on a 20k or more HP come after you have fought them enough to learn entire moveset. That's just poor design. They just made everything so fast/aggressive/relentless/tanky just because they screwed up and introduced new mechanics game didn't need in the first place (clutch claw/tenderizing). You can make the game harder without resorting to cheap and bad mechanics. So I am forced to wallbang a monster for big opening to do damage. Okay. I wallbang a monster, get my big damage in. Capcom's answer to this as a "balance" counterplay? Monster is now enraged for 45-60 seconds, where it's faster and more aggressive. That to me is the most lazy and uninspired design ever. Forcing me to use something that shouldn't have been in the game and I find not fun and good to use just because they didn't know how to make the game difficult in a proper way so they resorted to most bland option, make them extremely fast and tanky. Majority of iceborne monsters don't feel good to fight. They are just sponges that move at lightning speed and force you to use bad and unfun mechanics they added for god knows which reason. Anyway, base world was okay for the most part, iceborne is just a boring pushover with nothing really interesting in it.
@@BleedingMem0ry ok i disagree on the fight part theres some really fun monsters in World but yeah Clutch Claw is stupid because its forced but also meta. Agitator LvL is bassically manditory because the Monster is always enraged or on the floor.
Im glad you see the issues though, most people just say Skill Issue or treat Iceborne like its the second coming of Jesus and perfection
And most people shit on Wirebugs in Rise despite the Clutch Claw being way more centralizing and punishing NOT to use
@@drxavier1870 Yeah, there were a few fun fights. Problem is if there are 200 monsters in the game but only 5 of them are fun and the remaining 195 are dull, boring and annoying because they are practically the same, and the only difference between them is their size. Nothing is flawless in this world, if people treat this expansion as flawless they actually need to play more games instead of only playing this one. This is among most flawed games ever made, so I find it funny really that people call it flawless, I guess they don't know better and never played a game with really good design choices. Yeah, going in without agitator is just losing damage because of reasons you mentioned, absolutely correct. It's forced on the player, much like the poor design choice that is the clutch claw. Nice to see someone understands things and can point out the horrible decisions capcom made with iceborne.
I've always wondered why I didn't like the claw as much as I liked the wirebugs, and I realise it all comes down to tenderizing. I wholeheartedly believe I wouldn't love the wirebugs as much as I do if they kept the tenderizing mechanic. Sure, wirebugs are basically the claws taken to the extreme, but it's the fun part of that extreme. Instead of aiming a specific part of the monster, I can just zip onto or zip away wherever and whenever. Instead of tenderizing, we have silkbinds that are completely optional to use and are only mandatory for certain builds(the switchaxe counter is kinda important to build up the gauge in power phial switchaxes). In Sunbreak I can play like a traditional hunter, just a lot faster and more mobile, or utilise the bugs to their fullest potential. In Iceborne, the claw is a must.
Anyways, that's why I don't like the claw I guess.
the clutch claw was definitely something i avoided when it first initially released but as i continued to play the game with higher and higher skilled hunters i began to definitely understand its importance and as i started doing it myself realized it adds depth to the games already deliberate combat flow. I do agree that yes the game does force you to use it for optimal damage, it does reward you for being better by allowing you to do a substantial amount of more damage leading to faster smooth hunts which in turn makes the combat more satisfying and rewarding
While it does add some deliberateness to the game, it does so in an extremely contrived way that feels divorced from the combat itself. It's deliberate in the way doing the QTE finishing move to kill the trash mobs is deliberate in other games.
If you are talking about optimal damage, let’s also remember that hunters don’t use powders and seeds or even traps all the time so saying you need clutch claw for optimal damage is kind of hypocritical.
In that regard you aren’t forced to use it because there are other ways to increase damage that hunters actively ignore because it’s too much hassle.
yep same it didnt bother me too much
Clutch claw to me overly centralized combat around wallbangs. A free knockdown alongside ridiculously high damage for basically nothing isn't fun or interesting, you just do it because it's easy and rewarding. With silkbinds, which somewhat achieve the same function, it becomes a lot harder to perform after the first one, so it becomes a big reward everyone is working towards.
@@SethAbercromby hmmm I don’t know about that, I mean in one fight you can ride 2 other monsters and punish the target causing massive damage plus a long down, then ride the target, yeet it into a wall 3-4 times (if you have a 3rd wirebug) then get a down.
They seem pretty comparable to me. Oh and we all know monsters always wander to you so you can ride them.
I played through World and Iceborne on both PC and PS4. On PS4 I got World at launch, played it extensively, and then picked it up again once Iceborne came out. Upon starting Iceborne, the absolute tank that was Beotodus really slapped me in the face. I couldn't believe how big of a jump it was in difficulty from base World!
I then played Iceborne even more extensively than I did World. And around the time Fatalis launched I had built myself a PC and was working my way through a PC save of World. Once I got to Iceborne I remembered how much of a tanky bastard Beotodus was and bracing myself for another 20 minute hunt.
But that's not what happened. All my time playing Iceborne on PS4 had made me more than adept at using the clutch claw and flinch shot to their full effectiveness, and since I was playing on PC with both lances and hammers, my weapons of choice meshed extra well with it. I ended up taking down Beotodus just as fast as any other hunt in Iceborne, tacking a couple minutes onto the timer to account for my usage of high rank equipment. The difference between using the claw and not using it is very, very easily felt, and it's a night and day difference unfortunately.
I went through the same process, except i went from Xbox to ps4. I also remember struggeling in a long drawn out battle with Beotodus the first go. The second go round was smooth. Though I honestly don't believe it was from the clutch claw. When I first fought Beo, I was not only new to the monster. But also new to the damage, speed and health it had. I struggled to recognize openings because I wasn't used to the snow. I struggled in all aspects. The second time we met, I was fully comfortable with every element of that fight. Whether i used the clutch claw or not, it was going to go smoothly because I was at a COMPLETELY different skill level then I was the first time. I came into that fight better prepared mentally and also better equipped.
i can agree but most fights were generally 20mins. so if it didn't exist you be forced into a 20 min hunt. it just makes it easier. also to me it never felt needed hell i rarely even noticed the difference
looks like someone forgot to farm mantles~
The clutch claw is only good for wall bangs and evading certain floor attacks. Constantly tenderising the monster feels like a chore it’s boring.
Personally, I didn't really have that big of an issue with the clutch, I rather liked it in fact. For me it was just a cool thing to do once in a while when I had an oppurtuniy; it didn't feel forced at all. I found myself thinking during knockdowns or claggers, "oh hey, right, i can tenderise here, i guess", as an afterthought more than anything else.
But your points are reasonable, and it's understandable why the clutch might taint the experience for you. I do see how it's unbalanced (I do wish it was integrated into weapons more soundly), but it certainly doesn't ruin the game for me.
Fantastic video, it let me understand a perspective that never really made all that much sense to me beforehand.
well if you're okay seeing white damage numbers and bouncing back every so often lol, some monsters were designed with pretty terrible base hitzones just to force the use of the claw, which was actually the main complaint most people had
@@hua.. The short answer is Get better weapons
@@hua.., bruh you need a better weapon with better sharpness 🤣 I barely get white numbers or bounce offs with a white sharpness insect glaive. Not too mention the glaives combo straight into the clutch claw so it feels seamless to me whenever I see an opportunity
The clutch claw looks like it should have just been a gap closer. Like it could be used to move with the monster for certain attacks like greatsword charges.
Adamant charge wirebug skill
@@Tomix4k byeah
That's what wirebugs are in rise.
People hate the necessity of clutch claw in world but in rise where not using a wirebug counter or wirebug skill is a DPS loss they like it
@@Alatyreon Wirbugs aren't just a dps loss. They are kinda your main defence for specific weapons that can't block.
Im a switch blade user and I love the clutch claw. Yes it is kind of annoying to miss or my attacks get canceled but i just try harder or figure out another strategy to use my abilities more often.
Swax
Also it gave us less reasons to have self preservation
That's because you're a fanatic. XD
wirebugs made the game so piss easy to deal big chunks of damage consistently through the arts and risk free with the insane movement, I don't get how anyone can stand behind them.
because it is fun to use? xd maybe?
I love World as it is, but your analyisis on the clutch claw is pretty fair. I think it would be better if they added the mounting mechanics to the clutch claw. For example, if the monster attacks, instead of it making you instanly fall off, it would drain your stamina quickly unless you hold on to the monster. And you can tenderize as many parts as you want for the amount of stamina you have.
I totally agree, the best part of the clutch claw was the attacks it gave some weapons, I love Greatsword, gunlance, Lance and Hammer to begin with so it was a really nice edition.
I hated tenderizing monsters and everything else around it though.
Yeah the Lance counter is a lot of fun!
I for some reason like the sns roll/claw move too, is even useful to doge some attacks
I didn't ay many weapons in World, but I liked that you could combo into a clutch grab with the hammer pretty easily.
Then there's IG. I hated and always avoided the claw. It was horribly difficult to aim from the air, so it didn't matter that you could use it airborne lol. I never got the muscle memory down of clicking the stick to swap to clutch claw, so I'd end up sheathing first. It wasn't til endgame of Iceborne that I felt really forced to tenderize
Honestly I only ever use clutch claw to wall bang. I'm not one to tenderize. It just means my hunts take a bit longer
in that old monster hunter world proto-demo, it featured part of the clutch claw, just the shooting ammo into the head thing.
i see that that had plans for using it ever since that demo
Never had that much an issue with the clutch claw. I recently started Rise and noticed that the rhythm and weight of attacks feels much less impactful. And monsters tend to be quite relentless in attacks to the point of stunlocking me to cart. That barely ever happened in World. World had a slower methodical pace and I liked that a lot. A lot of Rise faster pace can be found in the Wirebug moves. A lot of them are dash, lunge or counter based. Makes sense but also means the rhythm is much less forgiving.
That being said, I do see the argument of clutch law being not fully integrated. The idea fitted the more methodical style but it was kinda just aiming in the wrong direction. My gripe is a different one, with clutch claw anything regarding slingshot that was not triggering boulders to fall down became borderline useless. I liked using the slingshot as a tool in the arsenal. But most MR creatures had outright immunity. Behemoth was an entire fight dedicated to the slingshots functionality. That died with iceborne. Maybe a nerv had to be down. But I dont remember or caring what I shot at most wyverns as long as they took damage from what was falling down. It's a shame. One mechanic should replace the one established earlier in the same game.
To me riding and clutch claw in iceborne is roughly the same as Wirebug riding in rise. Just with less agency over it. It's going to happen anyway and it's basically both a gloryfied qte.
Jump moves were one of my favorites in world, especially when they ended in a ride. In Rise you can pull them of so easy they had to be nerfed into the ground. Which is a shame. I think if clutch claw was simply giving access to maneuver to and around a creature that would have been fine.
That's because you're a fanatic, so no; what you say doesn't count. XD
@@IncognitoActivado how does that make sense? XD
@@BlackStrey Because fanaticism is bad, obviously. ;)
@@IncognitoActivado it's more how im a fanatic. But I take that^^
@@BlackStrey I'm glad to know that you accept the truth of why your opinions will never matter; It's a big step you're taking. :)
Bought the mhw and iceborne edition and started base world with the clutch claw, I definetly relied on it and used it too much.
Still though, you gotta admit it’s satisfying when you clutch on a moving monster with a greatsword and nail tenderize after tenderize. The sound design and animations are great
Yeah some of the attacks are pretty cool to use, big fan of how it's integrated into the hammer for instance. Just wish it was well implemented.
@@HeavyWings that’s another weird thing abt it - it’s barely integrated with the moveset on weapons like greatsword. severely hurts the viability of those weapons in comparison to other ones
@@StellarRetribution Exactly, I find myself unable to switch off of Duel Blades because of their ability to tenderize easily after one of their combos. Now if I switch to any other weapon I am severely handicapped without that ability
The only weapon that I really used the clutch claw with was my switch axe because it made it easier to get on the certain monster parts, and use its ability to do major damage to that one part specially if you wanted to cut tails off, it was pretty much the only weapon I need the clutch claw for.
People don't realize how intrusive the clagger was in the pace of the game. I don't like how in Rise the monsters are forced to fight each other if they're in the same area but at least the wyvern riding stance it's one time per quest and after SB it's a small (huge) opening where the monster stands still. The clagger triggered WAY more often, it randomly ovverided normal staggers or even worse head staggers and messed up the positioning by pushing the monster away from you. Fighting Kushala in IB feels so different compared to base World now because of that
I measured how long it would take to reposition myself after the clagger animation is activated. It literally takes 2.4 seconds. Stop crying about the pace.
For me clutch claw is alright, what I don't like is the tenderizing mechanic because it felt mandatory to do
I found ICE to be quite helpful. My main gripe with IB was the guiding lands since it was very grindy to get all the way to MR100 and level regions solo. The CC balancing made Ruiner much more enjoyable for me since trying to tenderize him felt extremely difficult. The only downside of ICE is that almost no other mods work with it.
I hear ICE also does things like make the Fatalis gear not so overpowered. Just a massive rebalance of the entire game.
ICE is good but it doesn't fix any of the problems I had with the game pre-Iceborne. Like how bad the stun effects are and other monsters constantly interrupting your hunts. It got really old really fast and it often feels like I'm spectating instead of playing.
The way you describe how Clutch Claw affects Iceborne reminds me of slag in Borderlands 2's Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode. Coincidentally both these can ruin the flow of combat if your build doesn't synergise with it and the game can become a slog if you don't use them.
Great point. Slag ruined bl2 for me.
wow almost like end game requires a certain build. Dont play end game content then.
@@sutnack7537division 2 does not require any specific build. There are hundreds of them to be made. Not sure wtf you talking about
Asmon just watched this live and watch out, the Rise haters are gonna bomb yo ass lmao
Ironically, the Clutch Claw actually made me fall in love with the GunLance. I was already in the process from switching to a LS to GL main at the time, but not having to worry about weak spots on TOP of all the good changes GL got in Iceborne really cemented me as a GL main, even to this day
happiness through misery of others.
Bro, for me iceborne made me quit gunlance and switch to hammer for a bit before giving up on the game altogether. Ended up playing gunlance in generations ultimate instead.
@@BobbyMcRosso Playing gu gunlance is hilarious because that one is the objectively worst
I personally liked the clutch claw, both visually and mechanically, however I definitely think it's balanced poorly. I feel as though it'd be better if tenderizing didn't increase damage dealt, so monsters wouldn't have to be balanced around it, but instead focused entirely on part breaks. Then, tenderizing is optional and is just there to help farming, or in specific fights by weakening a monster.
Since I only really use IG, my only issue with it was that it'd take 2 attacks to get the tenderize off, but other than that it added onto the weapon's gameplay quite a bit. Being able to dive with the clutch claw midair and latch onto whatever I hit, or using it after a mount to grapple onto a monster's head before touching the ground. It was cool and fun. Wallbangs were alright for me, mostly as a result of fights being longer, thus needing the extra openings, but in my experience it never got to the point where monsters spent too much of the fight on the ground (except Ruiner Nergi, that boi lives on banana peels).
On the other hand, wirebugs made Rise and Sunbreak so easy for me that the only times I ever felt threatened was during the emergency event quests of base Rise and the higher end anomaly investigations of Sunbreak. The extra air time and mobility IG got with wirebugs made, and still makes, pretty much every single hunt extremely safe. Not to say it isn't fun tho, wirebugs are just as cool to me as the clutch claw.
Of course, such experiences with either game are entirely subjective, and that's just how it was for me.
Clutch Claw is the reason I started to use Sticky Light Bowgun. No need to tenderize if your attacks ignores Hitzones.
One thing that I wanted to add is another side effect that the Clutch Claw brought to the table: The Agitator skill.
Even in older games, Agitator/Challenger was a top tier skill to have in G-Rank but in Iceborne it's on a whole other level and because of 2 reasons:
1: Agitator secret: An armor set ability that increases the maximun lever of Agitator up to 7 for even greater benefits, including extra 20% affinity.
2: Clutch Claw allows you to keep the monster constantly enraged and therefore keeping Agitator always up.
This meant that, on top of all the thing you mentioned about the Clutch Claw, now you're also encouraged even more to spam the Clutch Claw, otherwise you also loose all the benefits from Agitator 7.
It also means that you're always fighting monsters while enraged in Iceborne with barely any down time. Fighting monsters like this can get pretty stressful.
(Sorry for the eventual mistakes I’m French) I didn't agree with you. MHW is a game where you have to use absolute every things to maximize your DPs and skills. It's not only ground combat and you have to make giant boulders falls, destroys the dam to flood a part of the map, perform jump attacks from walls to ride monsters. The clutch claw is just a bonus, but if you combine all the bonus you can get together won’t that make the game too easy? So yes, monsters have increased HP but the CC itself doesn't compensate this rise of HP, you have to use the CC along with all the bonuses you can get to improve your skills, for me, it's a good DLC because it makes you progress by mastering new skills and that's what I'm looking for when I'm playing MH
Biggest issue with clutch is tenderizing, I love the idea of it, hey turn a non weak point into a weak point, but they ended up making hitzones more like, hey, tenderize the weakest point, and now it's a weak point....
I'm a bowgun user, and when fighting fatalis.....I'm only allowed to shoot it's chest, even the tenderized head isn't a weak spot, so I ended up using sticky for that fight, he's immune to stun, but at least I could help break his head
that segment about the wirebugs really spoke to me and made me realize why I didn't like Rise as much as World. Wirebugs turned the game into a resource management game
The slinger (provided that you use dragon, bomb, or piercing pods) can stop wyverns that are flying from flying. It works very good if you hit them in the head, but each time you hit you'll need to wait for them to get through a stun animation before hitting them with the next pod.
Claggering is very annoying, but aren't the only time you can stun monsters for attacks. If you claw onto their head, then perform a claw attack onto their head, it'll stagger them long enough to perform an attack.
Not sure about other weapons, but I think Clutch Claw + Hammer is seamless. Letting you clutch out of two of held charge attacks really helped with the flow of fights and lets me keep up with faster monsters. If I could've kept the Clutch Claw in place of Wirebugs, I probably would have, even without wallbangs and tenderizing.
The ire against the clutch claw is directed at the tenderizing mechanic. The game is inevitably balanced around it, thus you have to use it as much as possible to deal normal damages instead of when you want it. If Capcom removed the tenderizing effect, brought back the old hitzone values/made the tenderized hitzone values the default while keeping the wallbang and the clutch attacks (which you would use for example against a flying monster, an out of reach part or to punish an otherwise unpunishable attack like Alatreon's floor is ice), all of a sudden, no one would complain anymore about the clutch claw as it would be an additional tool you use on the side of the normal gameplay when you find it convenient rather than a necessary maintenance you need to do regularly.
What is annoying is that it would require little work, yet Iceborne director never addressed the issue despite the community hating the tenderizing mechanic from the get-go (the most vocal being the speedrunners). He only did the barest minimum (Shaver jewel? All light weapons should tenderize in one hit period, no costly lv3 decoration needed and 3 minutes is still too short for the tenderized hitzones to last without having to overuse the clutch claw) at the very end, probably at the request of Ryozo since he seemed to be the "my way or the highway" kind of guy.
I haven’t actually played world or iceborne, but I have played rise and sunbreak, and I just wanna point out that while the silkbind attacks are indeed mandatory, unlike the clutch claw, they only add to your punishment opportunities instead of detracting from them. The clutch claw forces you to use it to tenderize the monster when you have the chance, which means your ability to fully punish the monster is contingent on it already being tenderized, on top of having on opening. In rise/sunbreak, the silkbind attacks only give you more options for how to punish the monster when you have the chance. Not to mention the silkbind attacks can also be used strategically to actually create openings and punishment opportunities. The clutch claw technically can too, but it’s a matter of aiming your reticle at the monster and pulling off the wallbang, rather than strategically using unique moves designed specifically for the weapon you’re using.
You didn’t really need tenderize if you have affinity and mind’s eye build. People just screaming because they can’t get maximum result from attack jewel and critical eyes without tenderizing.
^Delusional
@@arapaimagold8088actual idiot
The Clutch Claw felt way too mandatory, and sometimes getting it to grab onto the right part was insanely buggy.
I've played Monster Hunter since Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP, and honestly... I love the clutch claw and a lot of my friends who used to play with me from before do...
How did sunbreak make riding optional? Did i miss something? im playing and still get annoyed big time everytime i have to stop my combat (or waste my weapon buffs for that matter) just so i have to do a lenghty 3-wall-bang ride
Previously if you didn't want to ride, you would have to not attack the monster for like 7 seconds, massive pace breaker.
They added a setting that makes it so attacking doesn't trigger the ride, so you can keep wacking on the monster and they'll return to normal. You can also set Followers to ride for you if you don't want to.
@@HeavyWings that's good news! I play with my trusted hunting group, and I already made clear I don't want to ride. That option is super sweet, thanks
I just recently starting going back to Worldborn, but you don't have to sheath to use the clutch claw. Why did Heavy always say you have to sheath? Did I miss something?
I believe that only a certain weapon or two have that ability. Probably the SS. Play with other weapons and see for yourself.
@@kukukachu will do. I played mostly LS and HBG, there this was an option.
@@pascal2666 All weapons can use slinger and claw while unsheathed. However, Insect Glaive, Lance, and the ranged weapons need to click in the right circle pad (on Console) to swap between normal aim mode (or in the case of lance, claw counter mode) to slinger/claw aim mode.
@@Andrew-hz5zc yea that is what I remember. I played enough Worldborn that I can't tell what actions to press, I just do it without thinking :( but I felt like sheathing is something I rarely do before clawing. Anyhow, playing some hours Worldborn and then Risebreak gave me some conclusions Heavy was pointing out. Even though I like the claw combat wise, I don't like it being mandatory to progress in a decent pace. In contrast, I started learning Lance today in Risebreak and immediately liked the switchskills and their integration. A difference in feel like day and night.
I wouldn't say the Clutch Claw itself ruined Iceborne so much as the whole "Wanting players to use your new gimmick to the point fights are designed to try and punish people who don't" did. I mean, remember, when Capcom got tired of people NOT using multiplayer in base World (due to a combination of how poorly handled the multiplayer scaling was for the monsters as well as a lot of people being carried and thus sucking at a point where they really should know how to play the game at least competently), they began introducing monsters that were designed around being "impossible to beat alone".
Seeing that health bar makes everything make sense to me now, I stopped playing the game after sometime because it was just too much of a grind and why, BECAUSE I HAD NO IDEA THE CLUTCH CLAW WAS SO INTEGRAL!!!! I totally glossed over it and whenever I came to try the game out again I forgot that it even existed 💀
It's hard to really put into words how I feel about the clutch claw compared to the wirebug system. I agree with what you said about World having a much more "grounded" feel to it, where every weapon's moveset has deliberate weight and feel to it. I play with a group of friends and actively try to make use of all tools available to me, slinger and claw included, so to me the claw always felt like simply another tool in the shed and the clagger provided the team a short reprieve to get their bearings. The wirebug, however, is so deeply integrated into the combat system that the monsters needed to be rebuilt around it, i.e. many of them have quicker attacks and much shorter times between attacks so they can keep pace with the player. Personally, this isn't as fun or interesting to me, as the need to use wirebugs constantly leans more towards that gimmicky side of things. Series favorites like Zinogre or Tigrex were more fun in World than in Rise for me. However, I can see the frustrations that arise from the claw drastically changing the flow of the combat, and like you said this problem was most likely due to the claw's late inclusion into the game.
I know many people prefer the freedom of expression wirebugs provide them in Rise, particularly with the inclusion of Switch Skill Swap in Sunbreak, but personally, World's grounded combat, weighty weapons, and focused movesets will always keep me coming back to the game. But as you said, Rise doesn't lie about this upfront, and if wirebugs aren't for you, you're going to know that pretty quickly. All in all great video, you do a fantastic job of capturing the gripes with this mechanic for those who may not be aware of its history.
I really like the clutch claw in theory, primarily because, on the face of it, it's a nice middle ground between rise's wirebugs giving too much power and freedom to the player and something more restrained. like being able to make a monster rush forward and have it hit a wall is a really good and fun mechanic and when coupled with how easy it is to fall of (ccompared to mounting for example) it makes a great risk/reward system. in theory.
of course in practice it was heavily overtuned and what should've been something you could use occationally in a hunt to push an advantage became what you described here.
Use the claw. Use the claw. Use the claw...
Attempts to use the claw on a beastie flailing around... After three tries targeting the head, I end up on its hind leg and then I get damage, fireblight and poison from its mouth. Mm. Logical.
Its sooo hard to just not tenderize a monster and just hit it normally I guess
I think the issue he has is that if you ignore it you just have to deal with the bloated hp that was balanced around the player using the clutch claw.
I like the concept of the clutch claw, but in practice it didn’t work out quite as well as it could’ve. However I grew to like it more over time learning when I can get an opening to tenderize the monster. Having to tenderize felt tedious but it still was a little bit rewarding tendering monsters like Fatalis or Alatreon or AT Velkhana, monsters that really don’t like when you clutch on them. When you do learn their attacks and find a safe opening to tenderize or flinch shot it is rewarding, and adds another layer of combat, but in its execution it did start to feel tedious having to constantly tenderize monsters.
The staggers do help to get time to tenderize but the fact they get pushed back so far is so frustrating when you whiff your helm breaker because the spirit thrust staggered them
The janky aim of the clutch claw is also so frustrating
I've played world casually for over 80 hours and didn't use the claw much, just when I remembered I had it and i never felt like it had a detriment to the game but I keep hearing people complain about it so I am interested to see exactly why. Will edit once I've watched the video to give my opinions
Edit: having now watched the video, a couple things leap out at me. The largest impact of the clutch claw on the game is the clagger, as it breaks normal gameplay, and I think while it could have worked it they didn't move so far away, it is definitely a detriment. Your other points however, I'm not so sure about. Playing through iceborne hunts took a while but I fully expected that because it's master rank and it's always harder, but until I learned they were supposed to take an extra long time in this video, I never noticed it, and it did not break my immersion at all. I also didn't notice the reduced hotzone damage either, and the cool moves and other things iceborne added far overshadowed the only thing I didn't like which was the clagger. This may be due to the fact that I play gunlance, which is a pretty slow play style so that could have contributed to not noticing the longer fight times.
In conclusion: for someone playing casually or with friends not focused on optimizing the endgame(alatreon, fatalis) I don't think clutch claw is as jarring as people make it out to be even a good way into master rank.
Context on me as a player(gunlance main, 800 hours across 3u, 4u, gu, world, and rise. Imo best game is 4u, world, gu, rise, 3u in that order)
It's fine in World, once u get to iceborne in becomes much worse as the entire game is made around it, it in a way makes it feel mandatory.
Played Worlds across PS4 and PC with a combined 1400 hours. Clutch claw is 100% forced in Master/G rank and let me tell you, it's not fun at all trying to find the only window in a middle of a fight that breaks the fight cycle. Ie) you dodge and weave through attacks of a Zinogre and hit him once on an off hit and then he staggers mid combo and it goes from a game of fighting optimally to "oh I need to clutch claw now". And then if you fight Alatreon and Fatalis without tenderizing their heads, GOOD LUCK winning that fight is all I have to aay
@@leekyonion LOL, Alatreon and Fatalis are the monsters where tenderizing is literally, FACTUALLY the LEAST useful, especially their heads. Alatreon's head is an 85 hitzone. The tenderize multiplier formula is to times by 0.75, then add 25 and take off the decimal. That means the higher the hitzone the less useful tenderizing actually is. For Alatreon's 85 hitzone head, that goes up to 88, a difference of 3. Hardly anything at all.
Fatalis' head is a hitzone of 75. Oh, not as high as Alatreon's, so it's more useful right? WRONG, Fatalis is special in that a negative 5 "bonus" is applied after the tenderizing formula on tenderized parts. That means that tenderizing his head literally only improves the hitzone by ONE. He also doesn't need a tenderized head in order to get a partbreak bonus on wallbangs, meaning tenderizing the head is practically worthless for Melee weapons. Saying tenderizing is required for Ala and Fatty is one of the most ignorant statements ever, the bonus you get from it is extremely tiny on them specifically. They honestly punish you more if you DO use the claw because they each have multiple moves that pin or just straight up kill you if you are clutched on, even with a mantle.
It's almost like people hear that tenderizing is required and just immediately believe it without doing any research or even trying it out themselves.
He says that in the video, it doesn’t affect the base game because it didn’t exist at the time.
@@chandlerh2408 I'm not just talking about the base game, I'm a good way into master rank and I still don't use it as I had stated in my comment
I do really love the Iceborne Community Edition mod, personally. The game just feels a lot more like what you've described as wanting. I just wish I could get it working on linux so I can play it on my steam deck.
If iceborne didn’t have the clutch claw and claw associated changes it would simply be a better game.
Ah yes the clutch claw, loved not having a shortcut to 1 tenderize as IG
Having played world and ice born several times, i never felt the clutch claw was forced upon me, and i rarely used it in iceborn, despite this my hunt times barely increased, and i thknk the reason for that is because by the time you get to the expantoon of the game, you are good enough at whatever weapon you are using that the health increace dosent matter, as well as this, i never really noticed this 'clagger' effect, and when it did happen i never really thought it was too jarring or disruptive, if anything i was glad the monster was taking a break from jumping around all the time, and the wall bang always felt so cool when you could get it off, giving a great oppertuniry to whale on the monsyer while it was down, to conclude i doont think the clutch claw was a bad addition at all, and much like the slinger, it caan be mostly ignored if you dont like it, but gives a nice buff if you do
You gain way to much from using it more damage easier part breaks more monster down time
Btw they nerfed so many hitzones on monsters in icebourne even further making ppl relay o. The clutch claw
I largely agree with this opinion, with an addition. It feels like monster aggression got sped up significantly in IB to make the clutch claw feel necessary to use. The non-stagger attack windows in the base game allowed for a couple hits with good positioning. In IB they felt few and far between, unless you managed to exhaust them, which became null once they got agitated.
IB felt like they mandated a cycle of tenderize and wallbang, and then wait until the monster isn't agitated.
I hated the clutchclaw as an IG user, it just made the playstyle super frustrating and clunky.
I then went hammer, and it's perfect. It's the best addition I could imagine.
If the clutch claw was only used for the occasional wall bang and extra hit/gap close it would've been great imo.
Revert hit zones to what they were in world, remove tenderize, remove the clagger and put some sort of limitation on wall bang so a non enraged monsters get to actually do something and it's fixed. There are mods that have done things like these.
What I like about wirebugs is that it keeps the flow of combat "flowing" and it gives you strategy options, you can avoid using skills so you can jump out from a hit and keep fighting, you dont need to superman dive to avoid superattacks, if a monster gets too far away, wirebug to him and keep fighting, everything keeps you in the flow, the game never stops just so you can preform a specific action.... Well, at least now that riding isnt mandatory it doesn't.
Ive been playing this series since monhun 1 and honestly risebreak has been ny favourite combat so far
I was very much against you at the beginning of this video bit halfway in you made a lot of valid points and then wrapped it up in such a well explained point. Well done, take my sub and like!
I still played the shit out of iceborne but just imagine if the clutch claw didnt existed goddamn the game wouldve been a masterpiece.
I will say I agree a lot with what was said as a clutch claw denier myself, but I'd also go onto say that having a little interaction between the monster and the clutch claw (like the fatalis standing up and then crawling after a flinch shot) went a long way for me and made me almost think of the clutch claw as an actually well valid and well intetactive mechanic.
Almost.
The thing is, you don’t have to use the clutch claw. When people say you are forced to use it or they are being disingenuous because let’s be real, most hunters don’t even use powders, seeds, or traps to increase their damage. Those are all different ways to increase damage output and you don’t have to use them and they aren’t forced, so why is clutch claw different and you have to use it?
I see clutch claw as anything else in the game, a tool that I can choose to use that make hunts easier.
@@chi7818 it's a high damage tool. I personally also denied the cape things. I forgot the name as I havent played in years. Evasion heavy invincibility fire resistance etc. I will admit the only one I did use was the fire resistance because Lunastra was an annoying b and it saver me from using fire resistant slots for more damage stones.
@@semekiizuio yeah I agree, but just because it’s a high damage tool doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. That’s what I don’t get, why is this one high damage tool mandatory but so many others aren’t? That’s like saying you have to use bow or hbg or LS because their damage is so much higher than let’s say lance. No one says traps are mandatory but the amount of damage you can pump out in a single trap is ridiculous. No one says mega demondrugs, demon powders, and might seeds are mandatory even though they give a lot of attack.
That’s all I’m saying, they are being disingenuous and overreacting by saying clutch claw ruins the game because you have to tenderize for damage because they don’t even try to optimize damage in other ways.
@@chi7818 because they put half of Weakness Exploit into the clutch claw. They nerfed WE from its 30% iirc the percentage, cut it to 10% and put the 20% on tendering. On top of that they buffer up monsters HP in Iceborne because the game wants you, forces you to use tenderize unless suffer the consequences of weak damage/long kill time.
You can make up the damage by using other crap like str, power surge, and other strong slot gems. But they literally took away a healthy damage mechanic and put it somewhere else splitting the damage. That's what a Nerf is except it wasnt broken.
@@semekiizuio considering might seed is 5% attack for 3 minutes, mega demon drug is 3.3% attack until you cart, and demon powder is 5% attack for 3 minutes, you are missing out on 13.3% attack by not using these items. Why isn’t this necessary but 20% crit is?
Let’s also not forget they made crit eye 7 give 10% more crit, and agitator secret gave 10% more crit meaning you could make up for the missing 20% by not tenderizing.
Don’t get me wrong, clutch claw is a powerful tool but like you said, it’s a tool, it’s not mandatory.
The whole point of the tenderizing aspect was put in was to nerf Weakness Exploit, hence the 50% nerf to the affinity it default gave you unless you tenderized the monster. Finding time to tenderize came with the whole philosophy of Monster Hunter which is knowing the monster and finding the window to do an action.
Except part of the combat philosophy is also figuring out which direction to attack from and the distance you need to put yourself at, which the clutch claw almost completely ignores, which in turn makes the game more centralized on focusing on your timing above all else, which World already shifted towards to begin with.
Exactly, it is to nerf WEX so other skills can be utilized. It's almost every build in World have to use WEX, there's already less diversity of gameplay and builds. Pre-iceborne hunters already find the game repetitive and cannot really enjoy theorycrafting their builds since attaining max damage is so easy with WEX in World, so why bother getting Agitator, Max Might, Heroics, Resentment, etc.
I also like the idea of clutch claw working differently between light and heavy weapons. Sure light weapons needs to tenderize parts TWICE for WEX to take effect, but they get slinger pods out of it so they can easily prep for flinch shot, while Heavy Weapons has easy access to WEX, but takes effort to manage slinger pods for flinch shots or special attacks that uses the pods.
For me, Rise is more on the Flow, World is more on prepping, timing and positioning.
If not because of clutch claw, I think there will be a different video created with the title how Weakness Exploit ruined the game, how WEX made the game easy/boring, or how special tools ruined the game.
What I like about MH Franchise is they add different twists on different titles.
For me it's not necessary the Clutch Claw but specifically the "tenderize mechanic" and the need to do it that ruined the game
I love pairing the glider mantle with the CC because of the jumping dismount attack, it looks very stylish, is pretty safe and gives slower weapons like the GS better approach options. Definitely makes me feel like the CC was meant as a gap closer
I only started playing IB this year so I already had all the updates. With IG I really didn't mind the Clutch claw too much even if I'd get thrown off I'd land a hit or two contributing to the tenderizing. It still sucked you had to use it, and the hit connection can be very frustrating but as a whole I found it passable. IB as a whole was still enjoyable for me despite it's inclusion, though in a different way from pre 5th gen games. The Wirebug made Rise unplayable for me as I dislike gimicks. GU is the game I've spent by far the most time on and I dislike arts/styles but it still let's me use Guild without arts without making me feel cripled which basically undoes any problems I'd have with that system. I also just much prefer the pre 5th gen combat in general which is another topic I'd like to see a video on.
Redditors who only played mhworld are seeing your video im sorry dude
Great video and definetely something that soured iceborne for me to the point of just stopping playing.
Especially as they went "oh you want to play shelling gunlance, so you dont have awkward uptime mechanics? Here have this awkward uptime mechanic to jam into the monster."
I personally, got used to MHW base game to the point when Iceborne came out I have never in my entire life used the clutch claw, not because I refuse to but I legit do not care if I have to take longer to hunt a monster cause I didn't tenderize them, and I use Gunlance, Kinsect Glaive and LBG weapons and sometimes the hammer.
so in reality didn't really affect me that much
Most of the complaints I see are about the tenderizing aspect, but my problem was always the wall bang. I could never get it to work right, and it felt like such a silly way to damage a monster anyway.
Yeah some walls don't actually count as walls and the monster slides off. It's one of those things that happens infrequently but enough to be really annoying, and it still happens in Rise too.
@@HeavyWings at least in Rise some walls are more clear than the ones from MHW.
I always thought wall bangs felt better than the mounting mechanic. Quicker and requires paying attention to your surroundings and some careful planning. It was a little wonky at times, but if they didn't have tenderizing I bet they could make wall bangs feel more consistent.
The alatreon fight sucks, I and my friends would miss almost every wall bang, may be a skill issue but it's still frustrating seeing him running into the wall for 5 seconds and doesn't count it as wallbang
I actually enjoyed the clutch claw a lot. Once you learn the monster you are able to know when the timing is optimal to clutch. I also don't think the stagger animation was bad, i felt it was more for a breathing space rather than an interruption to my combo. I don't think it is forced, i have friends that don't like it and would speed run almost every monster in less than 5 minutes, yes the tenderize reduces this time a lot, but it is still optional. I actually don't like wirebugs, like you said at the start, if a feature is optional and you dont like it, you have the option not to use it, and that holds true to the clutch claw, but take LS for example. You can't helm splitter without wirebug, That is something that is forced, when you take away a core skill from the weapon and turn it into a gadget that has a cooldown, that is the biggest problem of wirebugs which was just somewhat fixed with risen kushala's wind mantle. But I honestly would take the clutch claw always first before wire bugs. At the end of the day i feel its a matter of opinion, but still, cool video. Thanks for showing your point of view and critizism honestly, that is something this community needs a lot!
couple fun things for me to chime in as an insect glaive main. when iceborne happened, i actually tried to play it like base game without the claw because i couldnt figure it out because i was on console and using a controller. i basically got stonewalled by barioth by it either killing me or it straight up made me run out of time because i couldnt kill it with the giant health pool. ive basically resolved myself to use charge blade or long sword or even sword n shield and learn those better and use IG as my backup because i just cant use the claw with all the shit i use while using IG. as for rise, ill admit outside of the wirebugs for helping me get out of being smacked i really dont use em for damage mostly because i just forget i can. *shrug*
They can remove the silk bind attacks, idc about that, but please do not take away my wirebugs in general.
The movement in Rise is the most fun I've ever had in MH.
If we can get a combo between scout flies and wirebugs, it'd be awesome.
The Clutch Claw makes Lance my favourite weapon in the game. I don't like the Tenderize mechanic and it's relationship with Weakness Exploit. But the ability to Counter Claw and Tenderize as a punish is a fun means of player expression. It's a better mechanic than Insta-block in Rise as it can be used mid-combo, like Charge Blade's Guard Points, without needing to stop my offense in anticipation.
Yeah the only thing I dislike about insta block is that you have to be neutral for it, but it's still pretty good to pull off, and Sunbreak's damage buffs did it justice.
The closest you can get to doing the Insta-Block mid-combo is with Shield Tackle, as it allows you to neutral block pretty quickly.
But yes, Claw Counter is absolutely addictive.
I think a huge issue the team has is how often they nerf things, the clutch claw feels like it’s a nerf for weakness exploit which they nerfed for the lighter weapons, they also nerfed elementless out of existence in iceborne instead of buffing elemental, nerf the elementless decoration, remove elementless weapons from the table entirely, everyone goes to blast and poison since they’re the closest to elementless, so then they add a monster that needs elemental weapons to beat and people make specific sets for it
monster always needed certain elements tho
idk I wasn't too bothered by the clutch claw personally, I just slapped on a temporal, tenderized, and called it a day. Whenever I didnt have temporal I would just looked for an opening, EX: fatalis shooting his flamethrower straight down. OR another option i did was clutchclaw make them turn with the flinch hit and then tenderize, after that I'd look for a wallbang
The only problem with clutch claw that I had was just the force tenderizer.
Tenderizing I think is a perfectly fine mechanic implemented poorly. It would have been better as something implemented into each weapon's moveset - either as a new move or additional benefit to existing moves. SnS, DB, and Lance had this done rather well, but it could have worked as a benefit of using less-used moves as well. On GS for example it should have been included as an effect of landing Strong Wide Slash on a monster part. This would allow the mechanic while keeping combat flowing, as well as rewarding proper spacing with a tenderize on the part players are actually hitting.
On a related note - the lack of necessity to tenderize is part of why the Fatalis fight is one of the best fights in the series for me. It takes what is (imo) the best base combat in the series and just pits you against the final threat. Yeah the fight has gimmicks, but it still felt really well-crafted to me.
Totaly agree with everything you said. One of the most egregious parts for me was how the monster hitboxes while clutch clawing felt basicaly random, especialy when you compare one monster to another. But what realy did it for me was when I clawed onto a rathalos' wing while he was flying, and he did that swoop down claw attack. Not only did I get knocked off, but I got poisoned. How do you explain that? I guess they changed the canon so that rathalos has poison in his wings now too.
Yeah it's a bit like the Barioth tail example, they really needed to design the game around something like this from the start to avoid issues like that.
playing on keyboard and mouse never makes the claw clunky there's a learning gap sure when it first introduced but never clunky.
the biggest issue i have with it is how inconsistent it is and how little is actually explained of what's going on.
Why do i get thrown off 7 times in a row while the monster is just standing there but can ride on for the entirety of a rathalos death lotus midair.
why can my friend just clutch onto it without any problem for the entire fight.
why do light weapons have to clutch it twice to tenderize it or otherwise slot in a high level decoration just to get the basic functionality of the forced mechanic.
why is insect glaive reliant on landing a clutch to perform in the most basic of combat scenarios due to their reliance on monster dropped slinger ammo.
sometimes the monster glides along the wall from a clagger, sometimes it hits nothing.
When you're fighting safi'jiva, you're actively told that you need to clagger the monster at specific times by voice cues from the extras, yet trying to do it when they say just causes you to get arbitrarily knocked off 7 more times.
why does completing a tenderize both animation lock you and drop you off directly in front of the monster/ on top of one of its attacks.
like it feels like its 100% designed just to be BS from the start.
"untill you find a lengthy opening, you'll be dealing less damage than you could." Ah yes, totally not how it's always been, valid complaint.
Capcom nerfed the hitzones of monsters to accommodate for the tenderizing mechanic as well as WE (30% by default + 20% if tenderized instead of 50% by default). Basically, you use the clutch claw to get back to the damages you dealt pre-nerf, not to gain a damage boost. Similar to how the heat gauge of GL functioned in MHGU.
@johan9428 I don't even disagree, and I think if this video was more focused on the numerical changes, it would've been more convincing. Like when he talked about the insane hp increase. But there were too many dumb complaints that just made his whole argument feel like belly aching
Clutch claw wasn't the best but it was a improvement, it allowed for players to stay on the hunt by riding on the monster so they can follow, the slinger unload allows players who don't get much exhaust the ability to Stun, and it generally improves the combat with heavy hitting clutch claw attacks, some people don't use it because it wasn't necessary for a good hunt, it could expand a player's playstyle, that's why I think It was a good edition
I'm considering going back to World with a friend on PC. I'll most likely try the ICE mod since I also didn't like how centralizing the clutch claw, tenderizing, and wall bangs became in Iceborne despite the rest of the expansion being great.
You should've mentioned that for sunbreak the game even rewards you for using only one silk bind scroll for the whole hunt to receive a buff for the wirebug section.
So what i see in this video is that you want the claw to be extream more easy to use vs using your skill and take oportunity to use them?
bro didnt watch the video
@@19.99USD i did watch but he only complain of the game been hard
@@reddragon4416 like I said, you just didn't watch the video. Not with any semblance of literacy at least
@@19.99USD soo the entirer video if you didnt like i told what he was complaining about is on you the fact is he complain about the grapling was 2 hard my point is he was expecting it to be next level easy instead of using small oportunitis on using it
@@reddragon4416 except he wasn't. He was complaining about it being unresponsive with respect to all visual indications in the game. Also that was just one point among the many in the in the video. Yes, it being unresponsive makes it difficult to use, but it's difficulty is the fundental ire of the complaint. Like i said, no literacy
replaying worldborne rn after playing risebreak and the clutch claw is just so annoying man...
You're just bad lmao
@@MrTweedle fair enough lmao
bro accepted it lmao ye i also didnt like it at first but after i got the hang of it its super fun im not sure how good u are at clutch clawing but it gets pretty fun when u understand it fully@@sylnz97
I love that world doesn't rely on gimmicks.
Now that Return to World is in full swing, you should look into the ICE mod. Iceborne Community Edition. Fixes a LOT of nonsense like claggers.
The Clutch Claw was introduced to solve a problem that didn't exist. And it resulted in an unbalanced mess. It was one of the reasons why I dropped the game when I did. Before I go on a tangent though, I wanna elaborate. I was a hardcore aerial IG main in World and Iceborne and never felt comfortable using the Crutch Claw. I think there were combos that led you crutch onto Monsters from the air, but I really disliked the whole "You have to use it to tenderize for better Hit Zone Values, nvm Weakness Exploit" part of it. So I did not use it at all. Which was actually p fine until the last two fights. After them I dropped Iceborne for the first time. Came back a bit later, but it didn't last long either.
Same here as a Bow user. Weakness Exploit was everything for Bow. As a fast weapon, CC killed flow and had you stop from dashing rolling
I dont disagree with alot of the points you raised about the clutch claw and its implementation especially in comparison to SunRise but as some who played exclusively solo before world I was more used to the exagerated health pools and thus I find your conclusion a bit hyperbolic and thought of it more like you consider the slinger in the world section, it just felt optional to me. The large health pool just adds to the challenge in my opinion but ill grant that my experience with it as an insect glaive main meant I was more easily able to intergrate tenderising and wall banging into my flow of attacks then say long sword users, which was the most popular weapon at the time. For players like yourself I can only express sympathy that it did ruin your experience with Iceborne but I found the expansion very enjoyable although I did find the availability of wall bangs quite tiresome especially by the endgame after seeing it and doing it hundreds of times and theyre much better implemented in sunbreak with the marionette spiders.
So that's why the monster staggers 12 miles away away from my full burst combo
My main problem is tenderizing with some monsters its mandatory to use like with Bariot, you want to break its wings but if you don't tenderize the hitbox is extremely small