Is Sport Climbing Out Of Fashion? Caldwell, Honnold, & Trotter || Climbing Gold w/Alex Honnold
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- Honnold thinks the youth are scared of rocks, but Tommy Caldwell and Sonnie Trotter aren't so sure. With everyone climbing hard board routes and mostly going out to boulder though, who can say? The three legendary climbers weigh in on whether sport climbing is just a fun little hobby for an aging demographic or alive and thriving.
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Bouldering just doesn’t satisfy adventure… It’s so fun in its self… But rope climbing is where endless worlds and adventure exist.
Completely agree. I mostly boulder, but anytime I'm traveling somewhere or looking for some local adventure I'm only looking for roped climbs. Bouldering is so much fun, but it's not an adventure at all.
I guess it's what you want from it. I cycle for adventure, flowing across landscapes 100km at a time and experiencing a wealth of challenges and beautiful moments. Climbing for me (and most people I know) is a social activity, while being convenient, enjoyable and extremely good exercise. We're all hard boulderers and love adventure but it's not climbing that gives us the adventure, it's other sports
Sport at the red river gorge is my favorite thing ever! I'm not really strong or anything, but it feels more real and more like "climbing" than bouldering does to me.
Heading out to Red River Gorge later this summer for the first time!
I started with bouldering but after one year me and my girlfriend went to a top rope course. After one year climbing only top rope in the gym, we did a lead course. Now we almost only do sport climbing.
For me bouldering is just to unsafe. You can injure yourself so fast. Especially on the harder new style boulders, you always have to think about how to fall or wager the sketchyness.
What I also like about sport climbing, you have these additional aspects. The mental game, the endurance part and even just the knowledge of your equipment.
I can understand why people tend to like bouldering more. Its just way more accessible. But when you have a partner I think sport climbing is the real thing. Atleast for me.
It's definitely not dead, it's just objectively so much harder logistically and content wise. To actually go sport climbing you need friends, gear, and time. To go bouldering, you just need a mat and a car.
For content creation, think of just how much harder it is to produce compelling sport climbing footage and content compared to your typical bouldering gym hype video. There are just so many more barriers to entry to make compelling content.
Some of the only people actually doing it are Adam Ondra, Anna Hazelnut, and Stefanio Gisholfi - and the stuff they produce has huge gaps between videos, and the quality is so difficult to achieve and requires a whole team working on it. Almost no mid-range climbers are making good quality sport climbing content because it's really really hard, but everyone and their dog is a professional gym boulderer with a youtube channel these days because all you need is a gopro and a gym membership and be able to climb soft V6
I agree with your assessment but I think you also need to consider how many people are putting out bouldering content. The whole ecosystem is overrun with bouldering content and it's nearly all the same. I'm sick of all the bouldering channels. It's just too much of the same.
you but are you climbing for content creation? if yes, that's a problem imho
I've been bouldering in a gym for about 13 months now. Never climbed before.
I've done up to f7b+ on more traditional style boulders, and because of that, i've done an f7a sport route on limestone, and many hard f6's, despite only having climbed sport a handful of times.
Bouldering has made me strong in a short period of time, but the real fun, is scaring yourself on a hard sport route, clipping bolts & really testing your mettle.
Just the act of having a dedicated belayer makes bouldering a more viable option for a lot of people. Even at a lot of climbing gyms, a lot more people boulder than top rope because bouldering requires just having a pair of climbing shoes and maybe chalk? That’s it.
As an "old" climber (age) who is newer to climbing (4 years), I see a lot of mixed ages groups on the sport routes near me (Mt. Lemmon, Tucson, AZ), and there are, literally, a thousand sport routes on the mountain, and more being set every day.
Maybe not at the super high level these pros are climbing, but for the average Joe, there are plenty of sport routes and I don't see it dying at all.
As a fellow Tucsonan, I’m realizing some
of the arguments depend on where people are from. Some comments seem to think that to sport climb, you have to travel and lodge somewhere but bouldering can be done in the city (gyms?) I’m purely a boulderer but I definitely know sport climbing is not dying out here in Tucson, or near by in Cochise.
@@codyleehanson Oh yeah, for sure.
I mean, it makes sense that a sport will live and die based on access.
No one would expect skiing to be a growing popular sport in Florida.
As you alluded to, it's easier to build a bouldering gym than a mountain lol
Sport climbing will never be "dead" but it definitely is dying, at least among the youth. And one day those youth will grow up and those will be the only climbers left, and sport climbing will definitely shrink a lot as that happens. As a young climber I hardly see anyone my age at the crag.
As a climber who was finally able to try sport climbing in their middle age, I would wager one reason you see less young people sport climbing is the much higher cost of sport climbing vs bouldering. I tried to get into sport climbing ages ago in college, but the cost was prohibitive and it was impossible to find a competent and dedicated belayer. You can boulder armed only with a "cheap" pair of climbing shoes, but to sport climb you need a couple thousand dollars worth of equipment as well as proper training (if you value your life/ankles), PLUS transportation and lodging costs. Some of my younger climbing friends struggle just to maintain a pair of climbing shoes and are stuck using some with giant holes. Sport climbing is a rich person's sport right on par with skiing, foiling, and scuba diving in terms of cost, and bouldering is just much more accessible to the average person. I think that is just one more reason why it's growing so fast right now.
My sports climbing mentor and I both started sports climbing when we were poor grad students. Expensive for upstarting youngsters? Maybe. On par with skiing and scuba diving? Hell no!
A basic self-sufficient sports climbing rig is more like $600 - 800 (rope $150, QD $200, helmet $50, belay device $50, carabiners, slings and miscellaneous $200). If you bum off rope/draws from your experienced friend it's even cheaper. That's not that much more expensive than 2 crash pads. I learnt how to sports climbing properly from friends, which costed nothing other than chipping in for beer and gas. Trad climbing gear might take another $1000 - 2000 on top of the sports rig but still nowhere as bad as skiing and scuba diving lol
@@kawong1607 I literally purchased my first set of sport climbing gear last week and total was about $2000 including a grigri and lead belay classes. Scuba gear was about $1000-$1500 (plus $150 for the cert, which already includes 2 dives). Then it's about $20-$25 to refill your tank. Snowboarding was $100-$200 for an old board, boots, and bindings; about $550 for the cheapest student season pass in Utah, eventually another $500 for proper jackets, pants, goggles, gloves. Definitely comparable. An added problem with scuba and climbing is you generally don't want used equipment when it comes to life-saving devices.
If you've enrolled in a class, buying equipment would be much cheaper, you need a harness, quick draws, rope, helmet, and a belay device. All of that can cost less than 400 bucks. When you start you're going on easier routes, so you won't need crazy amount of equipment.
It's an interesting thought and while I agree that bouldering requires less $$ investment, I definitely disagree that sport climbing's expenses are on par with the other hobbies/sports you listed.
I started climbing in my late 20s and was a total cheapskate about it. I climbed outdoors with friends (which does buck against trends today) but for the first year or so my only investment was on shoes and a harness, total spent was $120 max. Years later I still use that harness and have maybe $600 more of gear? The biggest recurring cost is shoes and resoling costs, and you'd need to do that for bouldering too.
Frankly, I think the thing that's making the sport so expensive for most people now (more so than even 5 years ago) is the unreasonably high cost of a day pass at most gyms today. I see day passes cost upwards of $60 in large cities like LA and NYC, and frankly most noobs don't have enough skin to last more than a couple hours if they have the strength.
@@wrathika You are forgetting the cost of traveling (and possible days off) that come with sport climbing. I think many kids choose to focus on bouldering because that is something they can consistently do in the city. Maybe they can get a long weekend to go bouldering outdoor every year. Becoming a 'sportclimber' just seems like a huge investment to them, and maybe it's not worth it to them if they can only climb outside a handful of times every year. Many of my friends that don't go higher than boulders are coincidentally also the people that don't own their own cars.
I like bouldering in the gym. For me is the most convenient, I can go when I want, I make a lot of friends, I can work in a project for over a month. It is just overall a better experience for me. I started as a rock climber, and it is great, but you need to live near the mountains, and fuel costs a lot. Also you need to always go with a partner. Bouldering (in the gym) is much more a social sport. I do like it better, and I think rock climbing can benefit indirectly from bouldering, because more people bouldering, means more people potentially rock climbing. I am not interested in rock climbing anymore, but I am also old, and I don't like to be in uncomfortable, unpredictable situations anymore. But a lot of young fellas who climb in the gym go on trip as well to climb on the rock.
A lot of people prefer sport climbing but being free when the weather is good, getting there and having someone to belay you during that time is the difficult part. And that there aren't many sport climbing clubs, there are usually just introductory courses, but after that you're kind of left on your own.
I agree. I find generally speaking people is reluctant to introduce you to their outdoor climbing groups, (at least where I live which is relatively speaking a popular place for climbing), especially if you're starting, like mentorship seems a thing of the past. I dunno if it's generational or what but peeps are usually like "when you learn to... we can go" which in my opinion also leads to people feeling like "the only way I can go outdoors, is if I can manage to climb hard at the gym".
All great points. I want to highlight that outdoor climbing feels more like an adventure. Climbing outdoors has this feeling of struggle with the environment, achievement, and danger. Indoors, I can push myself, because I did not travel for 2 hours to get to the climbing spot and then I have to do the same way back. Nature creates such interesting holds and situations, which are hard to imitate. Sun, humidity, wildlife, changing weather... You are not really bound to the beta set by the route setter. Additional outdoor skills are needed, such as route finding, logistics, and energy conservation - wisdom and experience. Finally, regarding sports climbing, indoor multi-pitch - I don't have a gym that allows me to do it.
For young climbers, sport climbing isn’t that expensive. Eating out all the time is… Finding partners to climb with initially could be difficult, but definitely not impossible. There is this comparison lately on the internet between indoor vs outdoor climbers. If you mostly or almost always climb inside great! But you’re not a rock climber if you don’t… rock… climb… The lack of regulation (like a gym with official inspections) and pure wild adventure involved in outdoor climbing is way better than indoor climbing, and I indoor climb a ton, but… outdoor climb every weekend. I wouldn’t indoor climb if outdoor climbing wasn’t my ultimate goal.
The distinction between a rock climber, alpinist, crack climber, trad climber, bouldering, so on… needs to have distinction between regulated, padded, safe indoor climbing. There’s less risk… by far. I’m so impressed at how talented these new indoor climbers are, and how well they would, and have done in rock. Rock climbing is an outdoors sport. And deep down, everyone knows that, regardless of the need to justify someone’s talent. Rock climbing is in the outdoors…
As a younger person myself, I do believe bouldering indoors is gaining massive popularity and might be drawing more young people towards it because of the convenience aspect.
However, what I love is being outdoors. For the people saying that the cost of a sport setup is expensive, two of my friends and I bought a whole setup for about $300 each, which is what you would spend in a couple of months on a gym membership. And when I don’t have a belayer to go with me, I just top rope solo, there are bomber setups that can work better than a human belayer.
Bouldering can be cheaper. You can get one crash pad for about the cost of a rope. For sport climbing, you need quickdraws, a harness, a belay device, a helmet, and a climbing partner in addition to the rope. Sport and trad also requires you to have rope skills that aren't always taught at gyms. Not everyone is able to access gym-to-crag style clinics. I think many of us have met people that absolutely crush indoors, but then don't actually have the technical skills to manage risk outdoors on sport or trad. With so many gyms, the basics of climbing are easy to access, but not the rest. A lot of gyms don't have a business plan that includes outdoor climbing education. There are also a lot of gym chains that are bouldering only.
Bouldering is like TikTok, little dopamine snacks
I feel like sport went out for a little bit and is now on the comeback
I think you left out that as we age sport climbing becomes slightly more appealing from a physical standpoint...as a buddy of mine says..."We all eventually end up sport climbers don't we"...meaning bouldering at your peak and training for your bouldering peak is quite physically demanding and hard on the body. Obviously endurance training is "hard" as you have to embrace the suck and takes time but it isn't near as physically demanding on your body, musculature, and soft tissues.
Exactly. Bouldering is sprinting and climbing is running. See any middle aged sprinters? What's cool is you can get crazy pumped at any age and any grade. So the thrill is still there even if the crazy movements aren't.
Yeah I remember adam ondra saying that bouldering, especially the new comp style is getting way more heavy for his body. He said his joints and muscles get so much more damage than by just climbing hard sport routes.
so true though. I had my two best seasons last fall into this spring, but I've been spending so much time on rock that I feel totally weak in the gym. worth it though.
Gyms having mostly bouldering these days and the high barrier to entry (both learning and material costs) to sport climb even in the gym let alone outdoors leads most of the people around my age (early 20s) that I know that mainly boulder.
All you need beyond bouldering gear (shoes, chalk) to sport climb in a gym is a harness and a belay device. It's really hardly any more expensive.
@@Michael-xr5yx most people I know also own a harness for TRing but some gyms require rope rentals or bring your own rope, on top of that learning to lead climb either has to be done by yourself and practice somewhere where they don't have rules (outdoors) or pay money for an indoor course.
@@BunnyRaptor This is spot on. I'm a Gen Z climber and the barrier to entry for sport climbing at gyms is so much higher than bouldering. I know several people that want to lead, but are turned off by the fact that lead classes are $100 for members at gyms, and require bringing your own rope and grigri (they won't allow lead belaying on ATC). So $100 for the class, $200 for a rope, and $100 for a grigri means the cost of leading in a gym is $400 more than just bouldering.
Gyms aren't funneling new climbers into lead climbing and have a high barrier for entry for insurance reasons, whereas anyone can boulder without the insurance companies saying that's a liability.
I've also talked to younger climbers at my gym who say they view climbing outside as too risky and only do indoor bouldering. Which makes me sad because I climb to get to outside and go places you can't just hike to.
I've been a dedicated lead climber for 5 years, and have lived in Colorado, at the heart of climbing, for 2 years. When I moved here, I expected to find many other dedicated sport climbers and finally project some hard-for-me (~13a/7c+) routes. However, I have struggled to find partners more than anywhere else in my lead climbing history. Despite constantly asking to go, I've only gotten on my project 6 times in the past year and a half. It's even at a popular crag with tons to do at every grade 10a and up. I'm about to switch to bouldering because at least I will be able to get on a project whenever I want (weather permitting). Finding consistent partners is too hard.
There's still nothing like the pump you get from a long steep sport route - you can't get it bouldering and you can't get it at the gym - you can look at that level of fitness and conditioning as an end in itself - it's also the best training for trad climbing which is mostly just vertical, so after being on overhanging rock all the time vertical feels much easier
I've always loved and preferred sport climbing. And my fused ankle doesn't want me to boulder. And yes, indoors is training while outdoors is climbing. But I'm an old guy climbing moderates, so what do I know? Your point might still be true.
May depend on accessibility to sport climbing in the local area, as well as social opportunities for young people to join as beginners. In my city there are two good university clubs that predominantly focus on sport climbing. The local crag is in the heart of the city, which has several hundred beginner-friendly routes around the 18m height. More adventurous crags exist less than an hour's drive away.
The clubs churn out a decent number of keen young sport climbers into the broader climbing community. Plenty of action at sport & trad crags here, though of course it pales in comparison to the gyms. My perspective is that young people will go where they see the greatest opportunity and accessibility. Student-run clubs are brilliant at encouraging young people to start climbing outdoors, especially when membership fees are a fraction of what gyms charge.
Funny to still hear indoor climbing called "just training". Just like last century Fontainebleau bouldering was "just training" for alpinists.
I mean. I am young and I am primarily a gym climber these days. I have the rope, skills and partners to go outside but its so hard to have the "stars align" when I am off during the weekends to do it. I don't know, I can go to the gym for a few hrs then leave and go home after having a ton of fun with friends there as well. I know a bunch of people my age are a lot less inclined because of the cost. Rope is 200-300$ Draws like 200-300$ anchor material is like 50-100$.
So its hard to envision going outside for any particular reason.
lol yeah most of my very strong climbing friends from college are mostly bouldering, tbf I'm not talented and I also don't climb that much so climbing easy trad in RR become appealing lol
I think sport will always be present its just that personally its not as convenient. Indoor bouldering is so much easier to access, needs less gear and constantly has new moves to explore. I do admit that sending an outdoor sport climb makes you feel like the main character in a movie though
Adam Ondra has already completed sport climbing. There’s still more room to keep pushing with Bouldering.
I watch kids boulder and adults lead belay or top rope. I don't know if its a maturity thing or the availability of routes requires travel.
Where i live im almost the only one bouldering, almost everybody else go sport climb so no i dont think its dying
There’s more sport climbers than there has ever been. Just go to Portland in the UK at the weekend and you’ll see. I think it’s going to sink! There’s just a lot LOT more new boulderers. Good or bad it is massively on trend.
Bouldering sucks so so much compared to trad and sport climbing. I’m completely don’t care that people like bouldering outdoors or at the gym more than being on routes. Less crowds/lines for me and my friends.
I have endless climbing in my back yard so I agree with alex
I don’t even climb but I dig listening to honold. lol
A dear family friend on the brink of 80 years old once told me: „There are enough good mountaineers, what we really need, are more old mountaineers.“
The sport will change but it won’t go away.
Is there a full episode of this that also has video
Hey there, The Gentlemen's Race episode is the full length conversation, but due to the way we edit the episodes, it isn't possible to get a full length with coherent video. Hope that clears things up!
@@ClimbingGoldSo where can we find the full length episode
@@crispbacon696 Description
The amount of times I heard the word “like” 😩
For a second, I thought this podcast was named “Climbing Old”.
I sport climb in Iowa.
Heck yeah Greg, get some!!
Way too many youngsters get really strong indoors ,but never go near a crag . In the UK too. Zero imagination.
Most of the climbers I meet 16-28 years old in the gym are super strong and have no plan on leaving the gym😂
Go to the Red, obed, tensleep etc. Shit loads of 25 year old climbers everywhere.
But yeah I prefer bouldering
Suprême Jumbo Love (5.15c), FA: Seb Bouin. Yes, it took a visiting Frenchman to push American sport climbing forward.😅
because I'm SCARED OF HEIGHTS. gosh.
There’s a ton of young people that sport climb in Colorado
Really hard to have this conversation without mentioning safety. I think a lot of the pros are just detached or desensitized to just how scary the risk is when climbing a wall. People die all the time. I personally feel a million times safer on a boulder.
I feel like that's really personal preference. I'd say it's mostly just access and most people I know generally only boulder indoors. Outdoor climbers are a pretty small group.
In gyms there are way more accidents in bouldering than in climbing.
@@jusiyt693 I think they were mostly talking about outdoor sport climbing here. sorry If I misunderstood. Of course there are more accidents in bouldering, because there are no ropes. Less fatalities though, and that's a fact.
Good. Keep them youngins and their radios away from the crags 😂
I just like ice climbing that's all
Mellow has done a great job making bouldering as cool as it is
Bouldering is for people afraid of heights lol.
I don’t even climb but I dig listening to honold. Lol
Sport climbing? Done by people past their prime and geeky dudes like A.O. The new thing is LRS on alpine routes. I have done that too and now I only climb sporadically and play tennis again.
Bouldering is for people lacking a partner or simply lacking ambition and courage. There, I said it 😊
better.... less people dumping trash on crags...
Sport climbing is anticlimactic. Randomly ending at anchors. Topping out trad or a boulder is the best feeling.
I’m sorry, what?
The last section when the pump kicks in is where the real “fun” begins. You’re getting tired, and every decision has to be made in split seconds: Should I make slow, deliberate movement or take a risky dynamic move? Should I rest on this moderate ok-ish hold or should I keep going? Should I pause for a few seconds to make this clip, or risk taking a huge fall later?
Your technique, mental game, tactics, route-reading, decision making etc. all have to be on point and all this while you’re fighting the pump, knowing that your forearms will inevitably fail should you make a wrong judgement. There is nothing in bouldering (which is very fun in itself) that can even remotely replace this feeling.
With exception of clipping bolts all of what you said can be done in hard bouldering. Additionally highballing has all of that and a greater fear factor when you enter the no fall zone.
I’ll give it to you that routes like Excalibur that top out are pretty epic. My whole point was that sport climbing ends without topping out typically and the feeling of sending to the top is the best feeling to me. Everything you mentioned can be achieved with bouldering, and then some. Also you completely ignored I mentioned trad in addition to bouldering.
If it wasn’t clear I’m talking about outdoor climbing.
Yes sport climbing is dead everyone stop going
people are alienated by capitalism even more today, very isolated and lonely generations. This makes the urban gyms more interesting because you can meet people or do it by yourself when you have nobody to go with or meet. Also there are only so many places in America, where you can drive a short distance to sport or trad climb, from an urban area, where most younger people live. I live in western NY, if i lived in NYC id still have to drive into Hudson valley to find outdoor spots, and if im in NYC I wouldn't own a car. from Western NY the Daks are 6 hours. So unless you live in the Hudson valley, Albany, or near or along the Adirondacks, your not traveling to climb unless your super dedicated. Popularity of climbing is coming from cities in general, regardless of how close they are to outdoor spots, so that's trending people towards gym preference and dependence. I got back into climbing after years away since college, the reason why is because a good gym was built in my city, and i felt bad not doing skiing or any of the outdoor things i used to do anymore, because life made it infeasible and costly. The gym is a membership and twice a week reconnection, that goes with domestic life. We cant all be mountain bums, living out of vans and tents and eating cliff bars and Ramen on a camping stove.
Wait till they accumlate all the imjuries from bouldering..give it 10 years and they will be on ropes.
lmao how is sport climbing dead? old climbers do trad and that isn't even dead yet
Yes! Sport climbing is out of fashion. You're a loser if you sport climb, so go to the bouldering spots and don't go to any sport climbing crags
This video is 🧢. My gym in Broomfield CO has tons of YOUNG crushers climbing 5.14 and I see plenty of youth at local sport crags and in Wyoming. You guys are just out of touch. P.S modern indoor bouldering and the direction it’s gone with all the Dynos and moves that have nothing to do with real outdoor climbing is wack.
This is a stupid conversation full of stupid takes. Honnald is such a himbo
Honestly they sound sheltered
Just been doing some soloing and trad🧗♂️🧗♂️
31 years old