If you find the Roman succession system confusing, you really need to listen to our podcast: kingsandgenerals.libsyn.com/5-how-did-the-roman-succession-work-during-the-principate The best way to listen to our podcast is having one of our t-shirts on: bit.ly/2HVQNHB
Wonder why you mentioned that one of the task of Germanicus as legate was "nation building". Wouldn't it be better to say "spreading Roman civilization"? To my knowledge the idea of nation is a19th century concept, it appeared relatively recently in usage.
@@vaevictis5878 Julius Caesar did not campaign against Germans aside from a couple of defensive campaigns when they crossed the Rhine. You're confusing them with the Gauls.
Marius and Sulla fought off the Germans the first time in about 70 bc? After several disastrous attempts by high ranking armchair generals who lost over sixty thousand Roman soldiers
Germanicus is one of my favourite lieutenants in history. His unwavering brother-like loyalty to Tiberius, his brilliant skill in battle and his tragic early end makes his tale fascinating, and I hope you guys find the same.
Tiberius as I recall did not reward Germanicus's wife and children for his loyalty after he was dead. Only their youngest child Caligula survived the snake-pit of Roman Imperial family politics to his adulthood.
@@kippesnikkel5217 Indeed. Germanicus glorious "victories" during the Roman-Germanic wars are most likely more or less roman propaganda. Wouldn`t be the first time. After all, he crossed Germania with eight legions (One third of the total Roman forces) and could not decisively weaken the Arminius coalition. Just one year after the withdrawal of Germanicus, the 74,000 -man army of the Marcomann king Marbod could not defeat the Arminius Coalition in an open field battle .This clearly indicates that the campaigns of Germanicus did not fulfill their purpose despite some victories. Many of the battles that appear as victories of the Romans were not real victories. At best, these were victories that were not decisive for the war. Tiberius himself spoke of serious and terrible losses. Also, In the Battle of Teutoburg forest the Romans had an estimated strength of 20,000 - max. 36,000 men , while it is estimated that the Germanic tribes only had 12,000-32,000. men. Keeping that in mind , Germanicus "victories" (with eight legions) seem even less glorious.
I put a lot of effort for this video and i would like to thank Matt Hollis for helping me out with the research regarding of this war. As usual, here are several ROME II mods we used in this video : - -Leonardo’s Imperial Roman Legionaries. -Petellius Particle enhanced -Aztec's Graphics Enhancement -Lucifer Hawk's GEMFX -Ancient Empire (Attila) Best wishes, Malay Archer ڤمانه ملايو
@@Lykyk If you'd bother to look at the credits you'll see it's me who is the researcher, not Malay. Also my sources are a mix of both modern and classical, and both state on balance that the information in the video is correct.
Nice and straight- to - the - point documentary as always. There's also an interesting occurence just before this battle, as Tacitus recounts in his Annals. Arminius was scouting a river (probably the Weser itself) with an horse patrol while the romans were doing the same on the opposite bank. At a certain point, Arminius shouted in Latin to the romans, demanding news about his brother Flavus, who remained loyal after Teutoburg. He was a cavalry legate in one of the legions under Germanicus orders, so they informed him, he took his horse and went to see his brother. They greeted each other and Arminius was stunned to see that Flavus had lost an eye, during the Illyrian revolt some time before. Arminius, after some chatting, told his brother a message from their mother, basically asking him to betray the romans and join the german side. At this point, the argument heated up: Flavus told Arminius that he didn't want to become a traitor just like him, going as far as saying that he wasn't his brother, no more after Teutoburg. "I have one word, you have thousand you traitor! Don't ever try to cross my path again, 'cause I will kill you, regardless of our mother and our deceased father!" The encounter ended with both brothers trying to cross the river to fight each other, eventually being both restrained by their own patrol men. Flavus remained loyal to the Roman Empire his entire life, and his son Italicus eventually became the new chieftain of the Cherusci tribe, in 47 AD. He was the only member of the royal house of Cherusci still alive, considering that the son of Arminius died (probably) in some obscure amphitheater as a young gladiator, in 30 AD.
Not only. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus, to be their king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals.
8:50 "... they managed to find the aquila..." can you imagine the soldiers' pleasant surprise finding a symbol that was taken and thought lost? Crazy!!
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 the standards were valuable to romes enemies, for example in the east. Not to mention you "logic" drops dead when you realize they just made 1 aquila, not the 3. For them to find the remaining aquila of the legions, it must have been a strong feeling.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 A legionary Aquila is not a table of cloth. it's a statue made of gold on wooden pole. It's unlikely the germans would have destroyed the symbol of their victory against Rome.
@@willg4802 They say the plotters were just plotters not connected to Tiberius infact he purged them,however he made no attempt to free the members of Caligula's family who were wrongly imprisoned by the plotters.
Had Germanicus lived to an old age, I wonder how much more we would remember his name. His strategic and tactical abilities seem as initially successful as Julius Caesar's. Were he to live another twenty years I wonder how much more he would have conquered, how successful of an administrator he would have been. But we'll never know.
Germanicus didn't have the stones that Julius did. The conquest of Gaul by Julius was as unauthorized and treasonous as it was bold. A decent or even great field commander does not translate to a mastery of politics. Germanicus was no Julius on either battlefield.
Would he? Hard to say. He was certainly a gifted military commander, but that doesn't always translate to success in ruling an empire. History is full of great warriors who also made lousy kings. Richard the Lionheart is perhaps the most famous of those. For some that would also include Tiberius. The Romans at least considered Tiberius a tyrant and one of their "bad" emperors, but like Germanicus he had been brilliant in command of an army.
Wonderful graphics! On a minor historical uniform note, the legionaries' famous cloak (sagum) was a madder red color. Madder is the easiest (and cheapest) color to make, and ranges from a reddish-brown to a yellowish red-brown. Purple, on the other hand, was the most difficult (and most expensive) color to make. For that reason, purple was worn by the imperial family, and almost no one else. Consequently, purple become the color of European nobility in the Medieval times following Rome's fall (the rock star Prince of "Purple rain" fame choosing is for that reason). "The wearing of the purple" is still used today to describe someone in a presidential or leadership role. Common legion recruits like the ones portrayed here would never have been outfitted with purple sagum... their cloaks were well-documented to be the color of madder red.
The key to Germanicus' success probably was his unwavering loyalty. So many Romans betrayed each other over something so petty or for temporary gain. He probably could've used the mutiny to become the emperor but in the future this would most likely come back to bite him, as it usually does.
Like Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon? It's highly likely that Germanicus was assassinated in spite of his loyalty. He's dead now either way but crossing the Rubicon with 8 or so legions would have been an alternative to assassination far from Rome. That's the difference between Germanicus and Julius.
To be fair at the time he was already supposed to be heir to the empire . Probably didn’t want to rush it. Everyone loved him and this is why in the beginning they also loved Caligula before he went crazy.
In the case of Julius Ceasar, the Roman leadership was going to whack him and so he crossed the Rubicon and took over. Despite Germanicus' supposed loyalty, we really do not know what his ambitions were.
@@davidweum Same could be said for Belisarius to bring up a comparison Germanicus & Belisarius were similar in some regard Both good/great Generals that commanded the Loyalty of their Armies & had supposed undying Loyalty towards the Emperor Tiberius & Justinian were both nervous of their counterparts & always tried to derail them in someway For Germanicus, after his avenging of Varus & the Legions, he got packed off to Syria where he possibly died of poison For Belisarius he was hindered almost constantly in his Wars against the Goths & lost his command multiple times. We don't know & will never know the true intentions of Germanicus or Belisarius but at least in Public, they always stayed loyal & true to their word
@@iDeathMaximuMII in the case of Belisarius his a true professional soldier loyal to his leader and the Roman state his Ambition is limited in three 1.) Securing his Patron aka: Justinian, in this case Belisarius wife maybe influence him to stay loyal till the end to Justinian , his wife BFF is also the wife of Justinian 2.) To give a good life for his beloved wife so they lived happily together 3.) To make his named ink in history as one of the Restorer of Empire or achieved Glorious Laurels.
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. Drusus Germanicus Minorus and Ventidius Bassus have to be the most underrated and understudied of Outstanding Roman leaders. Great job. Thanx.
This is the equivalent to claiming that Vietnam was a victory for America. It was a strategic failure with Arminius escaping, and the province of Magna Germania lost forever. At Idistaviso, the Roman used foreign auxiliary archers and cavalry that did all the work, with the legions barely participating. The Roman light infantry were nearly annihilated in the German charge, and the Roman cavalry were encircled and destroyed (the Romans don't count this as a separate battle, so the loss didn't blemish Germanicus' record). At the Angrivarian wall, the legions failed to dislodge the Germans, suffering horrendous casualties. Only the Roman ballistae caused Arminius' men to withdraw. Most overrated campaign in history.
@@AdHominus Not really like Vietnam. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus (Arminius' brother, that remained loyal to Rome and fought with Germanicus against Arminius), to be their king. They asked the Romans to send them a client king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals. Simply, for the Cherusci, it was not a question of national pride or freedom. It was a dispute for power between two factions that, as often happened had external allies, one was allied with the Romans (and in this faction there were Flavus and Segestes) and the other was allied with some neighbour tribes (and that was Arminius' faction). The faction of Arminius was successful for a brief time, then was overthrown, and the pro-Roman one returned to power. Germanicus' campaign simply inaugurated the subsequent Roman politics in Germania, to rule it through client kings, and launch devastating retaliatory attacks when the things didn't went their way.
@@AdHominus You are welcome. but the Cherusci asked to the Romans to be ruled by a client king of them only four years after Idistaviso, and after having killed their "liberator" Arminius. to me it doesn't seem really the same thing, but, if you feels like your point had been proven, good for you.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Can you even read? I never said Arminius won or the Cherusci became independent. I'm saying Rome lost, at enormous cost for the future of their state. Teutoburg re-directed Roman policy towards the Germans *permanently,* and Magna Germania was never recovered.
Indeed ! The Batavi were actually extremely successful too , they and Julius Civilis managed to kill 20,000 Romans in the revolt while their causalities were very light . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Batavi
Great episode as always. Really enjoy learning new facts about Roman history. One thing that was missing which I think was a great fact; is that one of the Roman officers, who fought alongside Germanicus in both of these battles, was a man called Flavus. This doesn't sound like much at first until you learn that he was Arminius' younger brother, who remained a loyal servant to the Empire!
Not only. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus, to be their king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals.
Tiberius doesn't seem to be very appreciative of Germanicus' loyalty. He's paranoid, and Germanicus was winning too many times, that's probably why he didn't want him to campaign further.
Tiberius has reason to be paranoid. He feels guilty and remorse for the "Epistula of Drusus" which probable got his brother (Drusus Germanicus Maiorus) killed by Augustus.
Tiberius also screwed and messed up his son Caligula. Caligula was the uncle of Emperor Nero. Both were bashit crazy, sadistic and paranoid tyrannical rulers. They made it into the worst Roman Emperors list.
Germanicus didn't actually win too many times, even if he claimed that. He lost 20-25k men in these campaigns and at the end he sitll had not conquered Germania.
Augustus, after the Teutoburg disaster, stated repeatedly that the Empire's northern frontier line should be traced along the Rhine river. As his writings, edicts and actions were held as sacred, Tiberius and many of his successors obeyed them. Of course, if we give credence to Suetonius, Tiberius was dead jealous of Germanicus' success; and at every turn subverted his further advancement . ^^;;
This was a good video (as always), especially because I hear so much about Arminius and the Teutoburg forest but I feel like you barely hear anything about what became of him after, but what I'm really excited about is listening to the thing on the Roman succession system because I've tried to look into it before, but I rarely find people who go into the nitty gritty like I want. So I'm really excited to go listen to that now.
Hmm, does anyone think Germanicus was sent to the Asian front, and then murdered there under the joint plot of Tiberius and the local governor? His death sounded quite suspicious to me.
@@pyrrhus3445 Just searched wiki: Tacitus says Tiberius was involved in a conspiracy against Germanicus, and Tiberius's jealousy and fear of his nephew's popularity and increasing power was the true motive.
@@heavenwatcher100 If you read ''I Claudius'' you can get some valuable insight on the circumstances of his death. Pretty much Tiberius and his mother Livia (Augustus' widow) are said to have continuously poisoned Germanicus during his stay in Syria until his death. What seems to reinforce this theory, is the way Germanicus' wife was treated after her husbands' death.
There was Germanicus a much beloved Roman dude and then there were his son Emperor Gaius Caligula and grandson Nero. Both maniacs and tyrannical rulers. It would be unbearably embarrassing for Germanicus if he could see how his son and grandson turned into. That's quite a comedown for him.
Caligula was a pretty normal person until he contracted a fever that affected his brain. After that he was pretty much the wacko that history recorded (although his enemies exaggerated his atrocities to some extent).
@@bobsaturday4273 Are you an idiot? (by the way nice way to start a conversation don't you think?) Are you judging historical events form 2000 years ago with modern morale point of wiew? 2000 years ago massacres, enslaving people, bloody retaliation were common and not an exclusivity of the Romans, they only were the best at it. In our modern times it's horryfing of course but that's was the way of warring in those times... or you think the germans or other populations were peaceful nature lovers? You need to study deeper history before startin an argument.
I'm watching this again for the first time since it was released (Praised be the almighty Algorithm!), and don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm negging you, so I'll just come right out and tell you that the depth and dynamism of your narration has grown by leaps and bounds since this video was released!
Wow i just wanted to say thank you for your time to create these amazing videos. I remember when you were with 50 k subs and i even remember a comment saying you guys wouldnt become big because of your name. Anyway i really admire you guys.
Had Germanicus been given more resources and the green light to keep going, I believe that the German lands would have been conquered to the Elbe if not further.
Ryan Possibly but some modern scholars actually challenge the traditional view on Germanicus winning big important battles. So the possibility is also there that som smaller battles were buffed here as Roman propaganda. All our sources are from them after all.
@@bingobongo1615 Indeed. Germanicus glorious "victories" during the Roman-Germanic wars are most likely more or less roman propaganda. Wouldn`t be the first time. After all, he crossed Germania with eight legions (One third of the total Roman forces) and could not decisively weaken the Arminius coalition. Just one year after the withdrawal of Germanicus, the 74,000 -man army of the Marcomann king Marbod could not defeat the Arminius Coalition in an open field battle .This clearly indicates that the campaigns of Germanicus did not fulfill their purpose despite some victories. Many of the battles that appear as victories of the Romans were not real victories. At best, these were victories that were not decisive for the war. Tiberius himself spoke of serious and terrible losses. Also, In the Battle of Teutoburg forest the Romans had an estimated strength of 20,000 - max. 36,000 men , while it is estimated that the Germanic tribes only had 12,000-32,000. men. Keeping that in mind , Germanicus "victories" (with eight legions - one third of the total Roman forces ) seem even less glorious.
@@larsonpartisan2855 The lands beyond the Rhine were Rome's Vietnam. Much more heavily wooded than today, an elusive enemy, both contributing to a legionary morale killing land that in the end... led a Roman Government not seeing the the value in pursuing. This theory championed by some scholars, and one i subscribe to.
@@larsonpartisan2855 Arminius could resist to Marobodus because part of the Suebi coalition (Semnones and Langobardi) that had not taken part in the previous battles against the Romans, joined Arminius vs. the remaining Suebi led by Marobodus (Marcomanni). In practice it was half of the Suebi plus the surviving forces of Arminius VS. the other half of the Suebi, no wonder he could resist, but the fact that he had not been able to gain a clear victory seems to indicate that the leftover of his own coalition was really not that much. That battle had been a showdown between Suebian factions, that infact, since that moment, begun to decide the politics of the same Cherusci. It's funny that you can give so precisely the numbers of the men involved in a battle that has practically no sources.
I’ve always loved military history, but for the for the first half of my life I could just read about it. Books were the only way to study history in depth and you couldn’t find information on something on the spur of the moment about something as particular as the Roman-Germanic wars in 16 AD. Your only choices were to find a book written specifically about the subject, which was often more information then you were looking for or an encyclopedia article that had way too little. After discovering you yesterday I immediately subscribed, thank you for these very interesting and informative videos.
Thanks for another great video, now I've just gotta stop procastinating with roman history and finish that Financial Accounting Assignment. Thanks again for the pleasant video.
Germanicus was amazing!Weird is the fact that he isnt so famous at all.Kings and Generals thanks for the video and please if you can help me for more information about the Batonian war know as Bellum Batonianum I dont understand why there isnt any information for this forgotten war.Please Kings and Generals
While I love BIG history - who doesn't love big personalities and even bigger battles - it is these often overlooked "side-notes" that really make history so interesting. Thank you for another great show.
@@KingsandGenerals I desire to see and learn more stories about the region of modern Croatia and the Balkans in the Roman era. If you ever get to it, it would be a of great added value. Cheers
Well done, thanks what happened on the Rhine valley was very interesting Arminius was a double traitor, but Roman revenge had success the entire story deserves a couple of films as "the gladiator"
@@herrsteinpilz9823 They did they took a lot of territory leading to the rhine also they would've literally took germania germanicas literllay just destroyed 2 50k plus armies of arminus right in the middle of germania. It was the jealousy of tiberius and the foolishness of germanicas that lead to germanias survival.
Always splits his main force into multiple columns to confuse the enemy and ease logistics while in enemy territory. Style of fighting battles is aggressive. First baits the enemy into making a mistake, then attacks with the second battle being reminiscent of austerlitz and waterloo. Forces the enemy to reinforce one side and leads a massive assault on the other. Uses fucking artillery in an ancient land battle. Always knows how to inspire his men into action either by demonstrating his devotion to the state or through his bravery in battle. Invades modern day Germany from France. Am I the only one who thinks this man was probably a time travelling Napoleon?
Absolutely amazing video! Classical Antiquity is my favourite and Germanicus is one of those fascinating what ifs Had he not died and succeeded Tiberius how different might the empire have been?
Most overrated Campaign in history. We only have roman sources so of course they are full of propaganda. Basically all the war criminal Germanicus did was taking a third of the total roman military at the time to burn a few small villages and slaughter the small marsii tribe who were celebrating a religious ceremony at the time and were completely unarmed, only to get his rearguard annihilated by the avenging neighbor tribes. In the following battles he won against a largly outnumbered opponent by using his "barbarian" auxiliaries who did most of the fighting and stil apparently suffered losses high enough for Tiberus to consider further conquest-effort not worth it. Otherwise why would the emperor have changed his mind? Most certainly because the victories were not as clear cut as the roman writers made them out to be. in the end germania remained free. That is what matters.
@MikeIstEinMongo Zwei And btw, Tiberius called Germanicus back because he was fearful of the later’s growing power and influence, or simply because he deemed that Germania wasn’t worth it. Still, the slaughter at Teutoburg was avenged, the legionary eagles were recovered, Roman pride had been redeemed, and the Germans realized that Rome never let treason go unpunished.
@Carmicha3l Runic Alphabet was used only for religious matters and it never knew a literary use during Roman age. Then if you want to know, according to the scholars this alphabet come from the "italic alphabet". So as you can see, that alphabet was not invented by German population but by Mediterranean people... It is probable given that the first forms of this alphabet stood around 200 AD, a period in which Latin culture influenced these peoples, not by chance that the most ancient runic inscriptions adopt letters of the Latin alphabet and therefore likely that the runic alphabet used then later it actually derives from the Italic language If you don't believe me, read this Wikipedia article: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes
Very well done video once again. And it let's you question if the once without the trousers weren't the actual barbarians in this conflict. Arminius and his tribal confederation may have lost some battles, but they let the Romans suffer enough to avoid complete conquest. This would come back over the following centuries to bite the Romans. Also the sources on these events are extremely scarce and mainly Roman, so we only get to hear one side on this matter. The victories of Germanicus may very well have been largely hyperbolic, to calm the populus in Rome. We will probably never know for sure.
@@Lykyk The Germans was about to cross the Rhine and attack the Roman territories, he stopped them. It wasn't just a psychological victory, he just neutralized a growing threat; the reason why he gained no lands is because Augustus ordered him to make no further advances into Germanic lands.
History is written by the victors, so yeah, the fact of the matter is that no germanic sources of that time exist even to make a counter argument, we can solely base our assumptions on what the romans wrote and archaeological evidence and that points out to Roman influence on the other side of the Rhine. Archaeological proof is not sufficient when you have written sources, even minor ones after Tacitus. And if it was propaganda, why Tacitus mentions the lose that Germanicus had in his second campaign at all? Are there other written roman sources, contra-propaganda of a later time that contradicts Tacitus?
@@Lykyk if I recall correctly, veleius paterculus is the source that mentions this point in time, and it was Catualda, a Marcomanni who had the decisive battle against marboboduus, Arminius fought against him, but the battle was not decisive
Another aftermath detail to 8:48: The retrieved aquili (actually 2 of 3 aquili could be retrieved) have never been reused again. All 3 annihilated legions in Teutoburg have never been restored again and they vanished in roman army's history for ever. Probably Tiberius didn't want the roman people and the army to remember Germanicus too much?
how come Germany doesn't make any movies about Arminius? He is a freedom fighter who against mighty The Roman Empire.only After 3 legions destroyed by Arminius,emperor Augustus stopped conquering the whole world. Arminius changed the world history.i like to know more about Arminius.
Great nephew of octavian And grandson of marc Antony. Brother of Claudias. And father of caligula...thats some family line...the comments about making a film about germanicus and this battle and others.. Should be made for sure...they made untold films and docs. About defeat in black forest...why not about the campaigns of germanicus......why..or is it because the romans won?
Fun fact Germanicus's campaigns had more Roman casualties than which had died in Teutoburg forest, the overall situation on the German border changed little so was it much of a victory one wonders?
They managed to bring back the three Aquilea and dislodge Arminius from power. It was a war more to heal the damaged pride of the Romans than for territorial, economic or geopolitical gain which is why Tiberius and Germanicus were given plenty of soldiers and supplies while expecting little in the way of spoils and territory and after the campaign was done they basically left Germania to itself. Later emperor Domitian basically did the same thing, leading a campaign into Germania for personal glory and returning to Rome victoriously without really having achieved anything tangible at all.
@@DamnedHistory Forgot to mention they apparently started a Pyrrhus series too. I don't like the 'all over the place' video output. Course I still watch
@@htrland There were numerous Illyrian tribes. Alexander allied with some of them. Married an Illyrian princess to solidify the alliance. Conquered some of the Illyrian tribes around the Ohrid lake. Lyncestis, Panoians and Taulanti if i remember correctly. Alexander was not interested north of Ohrid where Dardanians,Panonians and Dalmatians lived. He was interested in defeating Persia to the East. He made it his life goal actually since he was a young boy.
That's interesting. I get that he wasn't interested in conquering all of Illyria. Perhaps he thought that conquering them (and the Scythians for example) wasn't worth the cost. However, this also means that he didn't technically conquer all of the "known world" (not even his northern neighbors), as is often claimed. Sure, he defeated the Illyrians and the Scythians in battles, but that's still very different from conquering them.
I feel like if Tiberius had actually conquered and tamed Germania at that point, Rome would have staved off much of the trouble that came centuries later
the germans would not have accepted a conquest, they would have used the first opportunity to rise up and rebel. just look what trouble karl the great had with the saxons.
weisthor0815 Germania would not have been worth it anyway. The Germanics of that time had no professions, no economy really at all. all they did was kill and forage. A German province wouldn’t have generated a trade surplus and would thusly be largely pointless. Much better to raid across the Rhine for slaves now and then and make sure the border tribes stay divided.
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The conquest of Germania wasn't worth the economic cost in short terms, but the fact that they let it as a threat, lead to the Western Roman Empire's demise eventually
@@Lykyk You seem to be thinking that military success is solely defined in terms of land gained. Keep in mind, Germanicus wasn't seeking to conquer territory. His entire expedition into Germania was a punitive expedition, meant to punish the Germans. Which is exactly what it achieved. It punished the Germans. It devastated their economic potential, reversed Germania's sense of victory over the Romans, and undermined Ariminius, ensuring that he couldn't use his popularity from Teutoburg Forest to unify the German tribes into a single, cohesive nation, capable of threatening the Romans. The importance of undermining Ariminius cannot be overstated. The Romans were quite understandably afraid that Ariminius might use his popularity to convince the Germanic tribes that the Romans could be beaten, but only if he was in charge. There were even fears that Ariminius may ally himself with the Dacians, Illyrians and Thracians to wage a multifront war on Rome. Defeating Ariminius twice demonstrated to the German tribes that Teutoburg Forest was a fluke, that it was less skill and more luck for Ariminius (whether that was actually true is an entirely different debate, I'm merely concerned with what was perceived at the time). It gave the impression to the other tribes that Ariminius was not some sort of great genius, that he was no better than them, and that he could be beaten. Thus it exacerbated the existing divisions in Ariminius's coalition, leading it to fragment into war. Germanicus didn't take any land because he didn't need to take any land. He just needed to divide and destroy Ariminius, and his campaigns succeeded in that masterfully. He discredited Ariminius and also sent a message to other would-be opponents of the Empire that Rome was not to be trifled with. That an enemy may win a battle against Rome, but it cannot hope to win the war.
You seem to forget, that Western Roman Empire was most threatened by the tribe migration caused by the Huns. Those tribes came from lands farther away than Germania. Also, Germania was a quite unstable province. Western Roman Empire was quite strapped for resources by 4th Century AD and I would imagine, that continual subjugation of the province would cost a lot more than Rome would gain from it. And lastly, Germania was mostly inhabited by client tribes and fiefdoms friendly to Rome, so they really were not under such a threat, that would warrant a conquest. Of course, tribes like Marcomanni still posed a threat, but were mostly located in Pannonia, not Germania.
@@Lykyk if you want to talk about ancient authors how about you read what they wrote yourself, now if you would have known what they wrote then you would have known that Tiberius was a paranoid prick(and i'm being kind) and more or less forced Germanicus to abandon his germanic campaigns for the exact same reasons that Agricola was forced to abandon his caledonian campagin decades later(different players, different land, but the same game) which was to halt any further popularity from being gained by these individuals so that they couldn't pose any sort of threat to the Emperor's legitimacy to rule(especially in the case of Tiberius), also all the ancient authors are in agreement as to the fact that it was Tiberius who ordered the poisoning of Germanicus both as to eliminate a direct threat to himself and to secure Drusus(who as still alive at the time) as the sole and unchallenged heir to the imperial throne, and lastly since you mentioned Tacitus maybe you should read his works your self and make up your own mind on the events of the the day rather than let someone else to do it for you so here: penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/home.html this website contains the largest online compendium of ancient works out there, enjoy ;)
Actually they had conquered much of it during Augustus' and already starting to turn the land into a colony til the events of 9 AD. It's just that later Tiberius decided that it's not worth the huge efforts to reconquer all that again. There were also plans to conquer Bohemia that were abandoned.
A Legatus was a General. A Governor was a Proconsul, or Procurator respectively. The command of a not fully integrated region could have a Legati Augusti pro Praetore. But the governor of formal provinces were not called Legatus.
Germanicus was a very aggressive general. It helped that the Romans he commanded were extra motivated, but he used that to his advantage. Good piece. Helped me learn more. Hopefully, you guys can do something about the Phlippines. Either World War II, the Philippine Revolution against Spain, or the Philippine-American War. I'd appreciate it, thanks!
Germanicus would have made such a great emperor. Instead, we got his son, Caligula. I once heard speculation that Tiberius was jealous of Germanicus' popularity and assassinated him, then used Caligula as one of his 'boys' (Tiberius was apparently very perverted even for Roman standards) That is speculated one of the reasons Caligula was so crazy.
I have taken numerous history courses while I was living in Europe. The classes were great and insightful; however, I learn more from your videos than I did from the courses. It is a proven fact, you need visuals and knowledgeable people teaching. Which videos from your library should I watch to learn more about the Roman Empire? Also, what should be the order that I watch them in? Thank you for the informative videos.
Germanicus lost the opportunity to grab the throne and eventually lost his life. Probably an assassination from Tiberius. He understood war but not politics.
There is a book series called Soldier of Rome Artorian Chronicles by James Macethat focuses about this time all the way to the invasion of Britannia and it follows a character named Titus Artorius Justus who serves in the 20th legion
Great vid, though genetically Germanicus (And the future Emperor Claudius) was the material great-great nephew of Augustus and legally, following his adoption by Tiberius (who was required to adopt his nephew following the death of Gaius Caesar in 4 AD), was Augustus' grandson.
@tacotony24 Indeed. It doesn't matter how good of a commander you are, as long as you have to face the biggest military power of the known world in open battle you'll lose.
Most overrated Campaign in history. We only have roman sources so of course they are full of propaganda. Basically all the war criminal Germanicus did was taking a third of the total roman military at the time to burn a few small villages and slaughter the small marsii tribe who were celebrating a religious ceremony at the time and were completely unarmed, only to get his rearguard annihilated by the avenging neighbor tribes. In the following battles he won against a largly outnumbered opponent by using his "barbarian" auxiliaries who did most of the fighting and stil apparently suffered losses high enough for Tiberus to consider further conquest-effort not worth it. Otherwise why would the emperor have changed his mind? Most certainly because the victories were not as clear cut as the roman writers made them out to be. in the end germania remained free. That is what matters.
@@mikeisteinmongozwei5434 Yes, it remained "free" If by free you mean becoming a Roman client state, then yes. The Cherusci accepted Italicus as their king, the son of a Roman legionary and the anti-Roman faction (i.e. Arminius' party) was killed Germania Superior became effectively a puppet state under Roman authority despite being "freed" by Arminius In fact, from what I understood of the Roman-Germanic wars, it seems to me that the Teutoburg was more of a phyrric victory than much else Note: i am NOT disrespecting modern germany or the germanic peoples, i just wish to provide a small correction to your post. Thank you for reading by the way!
@@mikeisteinmongozwei5434 what sources do you need? the germans were defeated and rome took revenge for the defeat suffered in teutoburg.Moreover, you say falsehood, because after that terrible defeat, the romans entered and left the teutonic forests every time they needed slaves for the empire. they were never annexed to Rome just because the territory was of little interest to the Empire. If they wanted to, they would have crushed and subdued all the Germanic peoples, as they did with Gaul, Britannia, Hispania, Greece, Pontus and dozens of other civilizations .
If you find the Roman succession system confusing, you really need to listen to our podcast: kingsandgenerals.libsyn.com/5-how-did-the-roman-succession-work-during-the-principate
The best way to listen to our podcast is having one of our t-shirts on: bit.ly/2HVQNHB
By buying one of our t shirts hahah
Wonder why you mentioned that one of the task of Germanicus as legate was "nation building". Wouldn't it be better to say "spreading Roman civilization"? To my knowledge the idea of nation is a19th century concept, it appeared relatively recently in usage.
hi dude please make battle of carrhae ty love your channel from iran
It’s like Col Qaddafi government
What mods did you use?
I feel like besides Teutoberg no one really talks about the early conflicts between Rome and the Germans. I appreciate this.
Nah the conquest of Julius Caesar are petty famous
@@vaevictis5878 Julius Caesar did not campaign against Germans aside from a couple of defensive campaigns when they crossed the Rhine. You're confusing them with the Gauls.
Well fall of rome was the bad one
Marius and Sulla fought off the Germans the first time in about 70 bc? After several disastrous attempts by high ranking armchair generals who lost over sixty thousand Roman soldiers
Luke Wehlow Yes, and it happened during the cimbrian wars 113-101 BC not somewhere around the year 70 BC.
Germanicus is one of my favourite lieutenants in history. His unwavering brother-like loyalty to Tiberius, his brilliant skill in battle and his tragic early end makes his tale fascinating, and I hope you guys find the same.
Yep his brother the Emperor Claudius even laments that he never got to take the imperial throne.
Tiberius as I recall did not reward Germanicus's wife and children for his loyalty after he was dead. Only their youngest child Caligula survived the snake-pit of Roman Imperial family politics to his adulthood.
Shame about his son though...
I do.
@@kippesnikkel5217 Indeed. Germanicus glorious "victories" during the Roman-Germanic wars are most likely more or less roman propaganda. Wouldn`t be the first time. After all, he crossed Germania with eight legions (One third of the total Roman forces) and could not decisively weaken the Arminius coalition. Just one year after the withdrawal of Germanicus, the 74,000 -man army of the Marcomann king Marbod could not defeat the Arminius Coalition in an open field battle .This clearly indicates that the campaigns of Germanicus did not fulfill their purpose despite some victories. Many of the battles that appear as victories of the Romans were not real victories. At best, these were victories that were not decisive for the war. Tiberius himself spoke of serious and terrible losses. Also, In the Battle of Teutoburg forest the Romans had an estimated strength of 20,000 - max. 36,000 men , while it is estimated that the Germanic tribes only had 12,000-32,000. men. Keeping that in mind , Germanicus "victories" (with eight legions) seem even less glorious.
Title should have been: "The Empire Strikes Back"
So is the sack of rome "The Return of the Germans"?
@@justaguy9611 i guess so
@@justaguy9611 "The Last Gothic"
@@justaguy9611 And the recapture of rome and destruction of ostrogothic kingdom by the eastern roman empire is the last movie 😎
@Raju Peddada those would be good movies
I put a lot of effort for this video and i would like to thank Matt Hollis for helping me out with the research regarding of this war.
As usual, here are several ROME II mods we used in this video : -
-Leonardo’s Imperial Roman Legionaries.
-Petellius Particle enhanced
-Aztec's Graphics Enhancement
-Lucifer Hawk's GEMFX
-Ancient Empire (Attila)
Best wishes,
Malay Archer ڤمانه ملايو
@Slavic Soldier i always wondered where do you get these single unit generals
Malay people was detected...
Malay Archer Are we going to have more Gaulic wars series?
@@Lykyk If you'd bother to look at the credits you'll see it's me who is the researcher, not Malay. Also my sources are a mix of both modern and classical, and both state on balance that the information in the video is correct.
@youraveragesamTV They're above, in reply to Matt's comment
Nice and straight- to - the - point documentary as always.
There's also an interesting occurence just before this battle, as Tacitus recounts in his Annals.
Arminius was scouting a river (probably the Weser itself) with an horse patrol while the romans were doing the same on the opposite bank.
At a certain point, Arminius shouted in Latin to the romans, demanding news about his brother Flavus, who remained loyal after Teutoburg.
He was a cavalry legate in one of the legions under Germanicus orders, so they informed him, he took his horse and went to see his brother.
They greeted each other and Arminius was stunned to see that Flavus had lost an eye, during the Illyrian revolt some time before.
Arminius, after some chatting, told his brother a message from their mother, basically asking him to betray the romans and join the german side.
At this point, the argument heated up: Flavus told Arminius that he didn't want to become a traitor just like him, going as far as saying that he wasn't his brother, no more after Teutoburg.
"I have one word, you have thousand you traitor! Don't ever try to cross my path again, 'cause I will kill you, regardless of our mother and our deceased father!"
The encounter ended with both brothers trying to cross the river to fight each other, eventually being both restrained by their own patrol men.
Flavus remained loyal to the Roman Empire his entire life, and his son Italicus eventually became the new chieftain of the Cherusci tribe, in 47 AD.
He was the only member of the royal house of Cherusci still alive, considering that the son of Arminius died (probably) in some obscure amphitheater as a young gladiator, in 30 AD.
Thank you very much!
Interessant.
Not only. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus, to be their king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals.
tl;dr
Arminius: "Hey bro! How's it going? Wanna betray the Romans?"
Flavus: "Go f*ck yourself!"
Charging the Romans on an open field... A common mistake.
*Laughs in Carthage*
@@emperormiguel8327 how did that end for Carthage?
Hannibal didn't think so
@@lewistaylor2858 Not well, but I'm just saying that, like Carrahe, the Romans aren't the end-all, be-all of open field.
@@tubby6007 cof cof zama cof cof
8:50 "... they managed to find the aquila..." can you imagine the soldiers' pleasant surprise finding a symbol that was taken and thought lost? Crazy!!
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 and so is your claim
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 the standards were valuable to romes enemies, for example in the east.
Not to mention you "logic" drops dead when you realize they just made 1 aquila, not the 3.
For them to find the remaining aquila of the legions, it must have been a strong feeling.
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 again, qhy would they just make one fake aquila?
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 also how would their either make or hide that thing?
@@politicallycorrectredskin796 A legionary Aquila is not a table of cloth. it's a statue made of gold on wooden pole. It's unlikely the germans would have destroyed the symbol of their victory against Rome.
Germanicus had a really nice kid nicknamed "little boots".
Cute kid. Shame he grew up to be kind of insane.
It's a shame Germanicus died early. If he lived another decade, it could've helped stabilize Caligula
@@willg4802 They say the plotters were just plotters not connected to Tiberius infact he purged them,however he made no attempt to free the members of Caligula's family who were wrongly imprisoned by the plotters.
Caligula did nothing wrong
The senate was just butthurt they didnt get invited to his orgies
Had Germanicus lived to an old age, I wonder how much more we would remember his name. His strategic and tactical abilities seem as initially successful as Julius Caesar's. Were he to live another twenty years I wonder how much more he would have conquered, how successful of an administrator he would have been. But we'll never know.
Bob Saturday chill
@@bobsaturday4273 IUDEA DELENDA EST ,barbarian.
@@bobsaturday4273 SPQR
@@bobsaturday4273 No
Germanicus didn't have the stones that Julius did. The conquest of Gaul by Julius was as unauthorized and treasonous as it was bold. A decent or even great field commander does not translate to a mastery of politics. Germanicus was no Julius on either battlefield.
He protecc
He attacc
but most importantly
he don't get his legions bacc
Rip Varus
That’s a good one!
F
Give me my legions back!
Either doesn't or didn't
Germanicus would have been a fine Emperor
@@impaugjuldivmax What about Trajan then?
Would he?
Hard to say. He was certainly a gifted military commander, but that doesn't always translate to success in ruling an empire. History is full of great warriors who also made lousy kings. Richard the Lionheart is perhaps the most famous of those.
For some that would also include Tiberius. The Romans at least considered Tiberius a tyrant and one of their "bad" emperors, but like Germanicus he had been brilliant in command of an army.
Absolutely. It was a travesty he wasn’t.
@@lycaonpictus9662 Roman's thought an emperor and their leaders had to be great generals for a long time
@@impaugjuldivmax a good commander but maybe not emperor i agree
So glad you made a video of Germanicus, he's one of my favorite Roman. Great video as always!
Thank you! Consider sharing!
Wonderful graphics! On a minor historical uniform note, the legionaries' famous cloak (sagum) was a madder red color. Madder is the easiest (and cheapest) color to make, and ranges from a reddish-brown to a yellowish red-brown. Purple, on the other hand, was the most difficult (and most expensive) color to make. For that reason, purple was worn by the imperial family, and almost no one else. Consequently, purple become the color of European nobility in the Medieval times following Rome's fall (the rock star Prince of "Purple rain" fame choosing is for that reason). "The wearing of the purple" is still used today to describe someone in a presidential or leadership role. Common legion recruits like the ones portrayed here would never have been outfitted with purple sagum... their cloaks were well-documented to be the color of madder red.
The key to Germanicus' success probably was his unwavering loyalty. So many Romans betrayed each other over something so petty or for temporary gain. He probably could've used the mutiny to become the emperor but in the future this would most likely come back to bite him, as it usually does.
Like Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon? It's highly likely that Germanicus was assassinated in spite of his loyalty. He's dead now either way but crossing the Rubicon with 8 or so legions would have been an alternative to assassination far from Rome. That's the difference between Germanicus and Julius.
To be fair at the time he was already supposed to be heir to the empire . Probably didn’t want to rush it. Everyone loved him and this is why in the beginning they also loved Caligula before he went crazy.
In the case of Julius Ceasar, the Roman leadership was going to whack him and so he crossed the Rubicon and took over.
Despite Germanicus' supposed loyalty, we really do not know what his ambitions were.
@@davidweum Same could be said for Belisarius to bring up a comparison
Germanicus & Belisarius were similar in some regard
Both good/great Generals that commanded the Loyalty of their Armies & had supposed undying Loyalty towards the Emperor
Tiberius & Justinian were both nervous of their counterparts & always tried to derail them in someway
For Germanicus, after his avenging of Varus & the Legions, he got packed off to Syria where he possibly died of poison
For Belisarius he was hindered almost constantly in his Wars against the Goths & lost his command multiple times.
We don't know & will never know the true intentions of Germanicus or Belisarius but at least in Public, they always stayed loyal & true to their word
@@iDeathMaximuMII in the case of Belisarius his a true professional soldier loyal to his leader and the Roman state his Ambition is limited in three 1.) Securing his Patron aka: Justinian, in this case Belisarius wife maybe influence him to stay loyal till the end to Justinian , his wife BFF is also the wife of Justinian 2.) To give a good life for his beloved wife so they lived happily together 3.) To make his named ink in history as one of the Restorer of Empire or achieved Glorious Laurels.
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.
Drusus Germanicus Minorus and Ventidius Bassus have to be the most underrated and understudied of Outstanding Roman leaders. Great job. Thanx.
Thanks for watching!
This is the equivalent to claiming that Vietnam was a victory for America.
It was a strategic failure with Arminius escaping, and the province of Magna Germania lost forever. At Idistaviso, the Roman used foreign auxiliary archers and cavalry that did all the work, with the legions barely participating. The Roman light infantry were nearly annihilated in the German charge, and the Roman cavalry were encircled and destroyed (the Romans don't count this as a separate battle, so the loss didn't blemish Germanicus' record). At the Angrivarian wall, the legions failed to dislodge the Germans, suffering horrendous casualties. Only the Roman ballistae caused Arminius' men to withdraw. Most overrated campaign in history.
@@AdHominus Not really like Vietnam. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus (Arminius' brother, that remained loyal to Rome and fought with Germanicus against Arminius), to be their king. They asked the Romans to send them a client king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals.
Simply, for the Cherusci, it was not a question of national pride or freedom. It was a dispute for power between two factions that, as often happened had external allies, one was allied with the Romans (and in this faction there were Flavus and Segestes) and the other was allied with some neighbour tribes (and that was Arminius' faction). The faction of Arminius was successful for a brief time, then was overthrown, and the pro-Roman one returned to power.
Germanicus' campaign simply inaugurated the subsequent Roman politics in Germania, to rule it through client kings, and launch devastating retaliatory attacks when the things didn't went their way.
@@AdHominus You are welcome. but the Cherusci asked to the Romans to be ruled by a client king of them only four years after Idistaviso, and after having killed their "liberator" Arminius.
to me it doesn't seem really the same thing, but, if you feels like your point had been proven, good for you.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Can you even read? I never said Arminius won or the Cherusci became independent. I'm saying Rome lost, at enormous cost for the future of their state. Teutoburg re-directed Roman policy towards the Germans *permanently,* and Magna Germania was never recovered.
As a nice added detail, the Batavians (also Germanics) in this battle would later revolt under Julius Civilis in a similar fashion as Arminius did.
Indeed ! The Batavi were actually extremely successful too , they and Julius Civilis managed to kill 20,000 Romans in the revolt while their causalities were very light . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_the_Batavi
I hope he makes a video on it in the future , there isn't any on youtube covering it D:
@@saltyshanker agreed, would be nice.
Me too!
It's sad knowing the Romans rescued them against Arminius's concealed cavalry
this is one of my top notch favourite history channels. I mean, just look at how they present the battlefields!!! It's just delightful
Thank you for watching!
Always a good morning with a Kings and Generals upload
Glad to hear that!
Great episode as always.
Really enjoy learning new facts about Roman history.
One thing that was missing which I think was a great fact; is that one of the Roman officers, who fought alongside Germanicus in both of these battles, was a man called Flavus. This doesn't sound like much at first until you learn that he was Arminius' younger brother, who remained a loyal servant to the Empire!
Not only. Eleven years after Teutoburg, the Cherusci asked to the Romans to send them Italicus, son of Flavus, to be their king. The son of Italicus, Chariomerus, was still king and allied of Rome in the last recorded appearance of the Cherusci in the annals.
Tiberius doesn't seem to be very appreciative of Germanicus' loyalty. He's paranoid, and Germanicus was winning too many times, that's probably why he didn't want him to campaign further.
Tiberius has reason to be paranoid. He feels guilty and remorse for the "Epistula of Drusus" which probable got his brother (Drusus Germanicus Maiorus) killed by Augustus.
Tiberius also screwed and messed up his son Caligula. Caligula was the uncle of Emperor Nero. Both were bashit crazy, sadistic and paranoid tyrannical rulers. They made it into the worst Roman Emperors list.
Continuing a campeign in Germania was definatly NOT a good idea tho, at some point the germans wouldve got the drop on them, with a lot more losses.
Germanicus didn't actually win too many times, even if he claimed that. He lost 20-25k men in these campaigns and at the end he sitll had not conquered Germania.
Augustus, after the Teutoburg disaster, stated repeatedly that the Empire's northern frontier line should be traced along the Rhine river. As his writings, edicts and actions were held as sacred, Tiberius and many of his successors obeyed them.
Of course, if we give credence to Suetonius, Tiberius was dead jealous of Germanicus' success; and at every turn subverted his further advancement . ^^;;
Germanicus is one of my all time favourite commanders what a sad end for him.
Don't worry who did it to him suffer the worst fate.
This was a good video (as always), especially because I hear so much about Arminius and the Teutoburg forest but I feel like you barely hear anything about what became of him after, but what I'm really excited about is listening to the thing on the Roman succession system because I've tried to look into it before, but I rarely find people who go into the nitty gritty like I want. So I'm really excited to go listen to that now.
Hmm, does anyone think Germanicus was sent to the Asian front, and then murdered there under the joint plot of Tiberius and the local governor? His death sounded quite suspicious to me.
Chi Zhang me too I feel the same
@@pyrrhus3445 Just searched wiki: Tacitus says Tiberius was involved in a conspiracy against Germanicus, and Tiberius's jealousy and fear of his nephew's popularity and increasing power was the true motive.
@@heavenwatcher100 If you read ''I Claudius'' you can get some valuable insight on the circumstances of his death. Pretty much Tiberius and his mother Livia (Augustus' widow) are said to have continuously poisoned Germanicus during his stay in Syria until his death. What seems to reinforce this theory, is the way Germanicus' wife was treated after her husbands' death.
@@fragmaster101 OK. I am going to read "Claudius" afterwards. Thank you for providing this extra information.
I think so
Fantastic video, I appreciate you guys covering more unknown parts of Roman conquests. Would love to see a video about Trajan in Dacia.
There was Germanicus a much beloved Roman dude and then there were his son Emperor Gaius Caligula and grandson Nero. Both maniacs and tyrannical rulers. It would be unbearably embarrassing for Germanicus if he could see how his son and grandson turned into. That's quite a comedown for him.
Caligula was a pretty normal person until he contracted a fever that affected his brain. After that he was pretty much the wacko that history recorded (although his enemies exaggerated his atrocities to some extent).
@@bobsaturday4273 Are you an idiot? (by the way nice way to start a conversation don't you think?) Are you judging historical events form 2000 years ago with modern morale point of wiew? 2000 years ago massacres, enslaving people, bloody retaliation were common and not an exclusivity of the Romans, they only were the best at it. In our modern times it's horryfing of course but that's was the way of warring in those times... or you think the germans or other populations were peaceful nature lovers? You need to study deeper history before startin an argument.
Who is this bob saturday guy, after every comment i clicked, people call him id*ot
I'm watching this again for the first time since it was released (Praised be the almighty Algorithm!), and don't know how to say this without sounding like I'm negging you, so I'll just come right out and tell you that the depth and dynamism of your narration has grown by leaps and bounds since this video was released!
Thanks!
Don't forget that Germanicus paid for the revolting legions' retirement _out of pocket,_ and was *double* what Augustus promised them.
I was waiting for this video it’s a masterpiece I’m so excited for the next to come
Thank you!
I really enjoyed this episode, and the tactics the Romans used. His life would make an interesting tv show or docuseries.
Wow i just wanted to say thank you for your time to create these amazing videos. I remember when you were with 50 k subs and i even remember a comment saying you guys wouldnt become big because of your name. Anyway i really admire you guys.
Had Germanicus been given more resources and the green light to keep going, I believe that the German lands would have been conquered to the Elbe if not further.
Ryan Possibly but some modern scholars actually challenge the traditional view on Germanicus winning big important battles. So the possibility is also there that som smaller battles were buffed here as Roman propaganda. All our sources are from them after all.
@@bingobongo1615 Indeed. Germanicus glorious "victories" during the Roman-Germanic wars are most likely more or less roman propaganda. Wouldn`t be the first time. After all, he crossed Germania with eight legions (One third of the total Roman forces) and could not decisively weaken the Arminius coalition. Just one year after the withdrawal of Germanicus, the 74,000 -man army of the Marcomann king Marbod could not defeat the Arminius Coalition in an open field battle .This clearly indicates that the campaigns of Germanicus did not fulfill their purpose despite some victories. Many of the battles that appear as victories of the Romans were not real victories. At best, these were victories that were not decisive for the war. Tiberius himself spoke of serious and terrible losses. Also, In the Battle of Teutoburg forest the Romans had an estimated strength of 20,000 - max. 36,000 men , while it is estimated that the Germanic tribes only had 12,000-32,000. men. Keeping that in mind , Germanicus "victories" (with eight legions - one third of the total Roman forces ) seem even less glorious.
@@larsonpartisan2855 The lands beyond the Rhine were Rome's Vietnam. Much more heavily wooded than today, an elusive enemy, both contributing to a legionary morale killing land that in the end... led a Roman Government not seeing the the value in pursuing. This theory championed by some scholars, and one i subscribe to.
@@larsonpartisan2855 Arminius could resist to Marobodus because part of the Suebi coalition (Semnones and Langobardi) that had not taken part in the previous battles against the Romans, joined Arminius vs. the remaining Suebi led by Marobodus (Marcomanni). In practice it was half of the Suebi plus the surviving forces of Arminius VS. the other half of the Suebi, no wonder he could resist, but the fact that he had not been able to gain a clear victory seems to indicate that the leftover of his own coalition was really not that much. That battle had been a showdown between Suebian factions, that infact, since that moment, begun to decide the politics of the same Cherusci.
It's funny that you can give so precisely the numbers of the men involved in a battle that has practically no sources.
I’ve always loved military history, but for the for the first half of my life I could just read about it. Books were the only way to study history in depth and you couldn’t find information on something on the spur of the moment about something as particular as the Roman-Germanic wars in 16 AD. Your only choices were to find a book written specifically about the subject, which was often more information then you were looking for or an encyclopedia article that had way too little. After discovering you yesterday I immediately subscribed, thank you for these very interesting and informative videos.
Thanks for another great video, now I've just gotta stop procastinating with roman history and finish that Financial Accounting Assignment. Thanks again for the pleasant video.
Good luck!
Awesome timeline story, thanks for putting a better context on these events .
Germanicus was amazing!Weird is the fact that he isnt so famous at all.Kings and Generals thanks for the video and please if you can help me for more information about the Batonian war know as Bellum Batonianum I dont understand why there isnt any information for this forgotten war.Please Kings and Generals
This was awesome, definitely going to be a 2nd or 3rd rewatch. So glad you guys added the Thur video, holds me over till Sun on most occasions. Thx.
This is the most detailed account of Germanicus' battles avenging for Teutoburg I've seen so far
@Carmicha3l Like you; which is why you love him so
Awesome timeline story,x. thanks for putting a better context on these events .
Great! Roman Wars, Hopefully Epirus (Pyrrhic war) is the next video 😃
Epuris???
Pyrrhic war
@@KHK001 They already made a video about Pyrrhic war if I'm not mistaken.
@@randomuser6175 yeah, but the war didn't end still another part or two.
While I love BIG history - who doesn't love big personalities and even bigger battles - it is these often overlooked "side-notes" that really make history so interesting. Thank you for another great show.
Why is this so much more interesting when its not taught in school 😂😂. Man i love this channel
Amazing work. Love the graphics, sound effects, the voice narrator, and the story :)
Thank you!
I absolutely love this channel and the value it adds to my life. Keep it up! Kudos!
Happy to hear that!
@@KingsandGenerals I desire to see and learn more stories about the region of modern Croatia and the Balkans in the Roman era. If you ever get to it, it would be a of great added value. Cheers
Well done, thanks
what happened on the Rhine valley was very interesting
Arminius was a double traitor, but Roman revenge had success
the entire story deserves a couple of films as "the gladiator"
How was arminius a traitor
And the "revenge" wasnt a success rome lost about 25 000 men and didnt make any ground
@@herrsteinpilz9823 They did they took a lot of territory leading to the rhine also they would've literally took germania germanicas literllay just destroyed 2 50k plus armies of arminus right in the middle of germania. It was the jealousy of tiberius and the foolishness of germanicas that lead to germanias survival.
Always splits his main force into multiple columns to confuse the enemy and ease logistics while in enemy territory.
Style of fighting battles is aggressive. First baits the enemy into making a mistake, then attacks with the second battle being reminiscent of austerlitz and waterloo. Forces the enemy to reinforce one side and leads a massive assault on the other.
Uses fucking artillery in an ancient land battle.
Always knows how to inspire his men into action either by demonstrating his devotion to the state or through his bravery in battle.
Invades modern day Germany from France.
Am I the only one who thinks this man was probably a time travelling Napoleon?
You would say that. :-)
Rex Galilae Germanicus > Napoleon
@@Floki_631
I'll stop you right there...
Excellent video. Grazie 1000
Absolutely amazing video! Classical Antiquity is my favourite and Germanicus is one of those fascinating what ifs
Had he not died and succeeded Tiberius how different might the empire have been?
Yes Thank You! I remember requesting a video on Germanicus and here it is. TY
Empire strikes back! My heart rejoices!
Actually the
Germanic Tribes got what they wanted, Tiberius made the Rhine the border of the Roman Empire.
Most overrated Campaign in history. We only have roman sources so of course they are full of propaganda. Basically all the war criminal Germanicus did was taking a third of the total roman military at the time to burn a few small villages and slaughter the small marsii tribe who were celebrating a religious ceremony at the time and were completely unarmed, only to get his rearguard annihilated by the avenging neighbor tribes. In the following battles he won against a largly outnumbered opponent by using his "barbarian" auxiliaries who did most of the fighting and stil apparently suffered losses high enough for Tiberus to consider further conquest-effort not worth it. Otherwise why would the emperor have changed his mind? Most certainly because the victories were not as clear cut as the roman writers made them out to be. in the end germania remained free. That is what matters.
@MikeIstEinMongo Zwei And btw, Tiberius called Germanicus back because he was fearful of the later’s growing power and influence, or simply because he deemed that Germania wasn’t worth it.
Still, the slaughter at Teutoburg was avenged, the legionary eagles were recovered, Roman pride had been redeemed, and the Germans realized that Rome never let treason go unpunished.
@Carmicha3l that's not a real alphabet. They are some religious symbols...
@Carmicha3l Runic Alphabet was used only for religious matters and it never knew a literary use during Roman age. Then if you want to know, according to the scholars this alphabet come from the "italic alphabet". So as you can see, that alphabet was not invented by German population but by Mediterranean people... It is probable given that the first forms of this alphabet stood around 200 AD, a period in which Latin culture influenced these peoples, not by chance that the most ancient runic inscriptions adopt letters of the Latin alphabet and therefore likely that the runic alphabet used then later it actually derives from the Italic language
If you don't believe me, read this Wikipedia article:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runes
Another great upload. You and Baz are the best youtubers...
Very well done video once again. And it let's you question if the once without the trousers weren't the actual barbarians in this conflict.
Arminius and his tribal confederation may have lost some battles, but they let the Romans suffer enough to avoid complete conquest. This would come back over the following centuries to bite the Romans.
Also the sources on these events are extremely scarce and mainly Roman, so we only get to hear one side on this matter. The victories of Germanicus may very well have been largely hyperbolic, to calm the populus in Rome. We will probably never know for sure.
I didn't know much about this period of history. Very good video.
Germanicus: avenger of Teutoborg forest
@@Lykyk Psychological victory was just as important to the Romans back then.
@@Lykyk The Germans was about to cross the Rhine and attack the Roman territories, he stopped them. It wasn't just a psychological victory, he just neutralized a growing threat; the reason why he gained no lands is because Augustus ordered him to make no further advances into Germanic lands.
The Germanicus was the first avenger not Captain America ;)
History is written by the victors, so yeah, the fact of the matter is that no germanic sources of that time exist even to make a counter argument, we can solely base our assumptions on what the romans wrote and archaeological evidence and that points out to Roman influence on the other side of the Rhine. Archaeological proof is not sufficient when you have written sources, even minor ones after Tacitus. And if it was propaganda, why Tacitus mentions the lose that Germanicus had in his second campaign at all? Are there other written roman sources, contra-propaganda of a later time that contradicts Tacitus?
@@Lykyk if I recall correctly, veleius paterculus is the source that mentions this point in time, and it was Catualda, a Marcomanni who had the decisive battle against marboboduus, Arminius fought against him, but the battle was not decisive
what a fantastic storytelling!! Absolutely love it!
Slight mistake at around 5.35. You put Actium on the map where Corinth should've been, on Ancient Greece. Apart from that lovely as ever :)
tasos michalopoulos Thank you and sorry for that minor mistake.
5:35
Sword of the Morning :-)
Sword of the Morning Elaborate how I “pose and stole” k&g? Have you checked the credits before you comment?
When sometimes Epirus or Macedonia are not shown as greek it really hurts my heart @@MalayArcher
Is there anyone who is watching this after barbarians on Netflix!
Arminius's Death puts a smile on my face.
@@HRTWARRIOR there’s going to be a season 2 where arminius gets beaten over and over by the romans including his brother flavus
@@HRTWARRIOR Why?
@abis8 alpha8 take your meds bro
@@praeposter i don't think so lol. it's a german production, pretty sure they wanted to glorify germanic culture and victory over rome
Another aftermath detail to 8:48: The retrieved aquili (actually 2 of 3 aquili could be retrieved) have never been reused again. All 3 annihilated legions in Teutoburg have never been restored again and they vanished in roman army's history for ever. Probably Tiberius didn't want the roman people and the army to remember Germanicus too much?
I almost cried at the end of the video where he dies. Such a legend. Germanicus lives in our hearts forever.
Can't wait to see this on Barbarians!
This was a Great video!! 👍👍 Loved it!
Germanicus was so loyal to Tiberius. Wish he didn't die so soon so we could have seen more of him in history.
Good illustration of combined usage of Aux and Legions, on how Archery, light infantry, cavalry and heavy infantry being deployed.
The Empire Strikes Back
Awesome Ty. Keep up the GREAT work.
how come Germany doesn't make any movies about Arminius? He is a freedom fighter who against mighty The Roman Empire.only After 3 legions destroyed by Arminius,emperor Augustus stopped conquering the whole world. Arminius changed the world history.i like to know more about Arminius.
They made netflix show, have you seen it?
@@pisaks6782 name??
@@Harry2002-z9q It's called Barbarians
Great nephew of octavian And grandson of marc Antony. Brother of Claudias. And father of caligula...thats some family line...the comments about making a film about germanicus and this battle and others..
Should be made for sure...they made untold films and docs. About defeat in black forest...why not about the campaigns of germanicus......why..or is it because the romans won?
This is amazing!!! There's not many quality videos on youtube.. maybe 10? :) This is one of them.
Fun fact Germanicus's campaigns had more Roman casualties than which had died in Teutoburg forest, the overall situation on the German border changed little so was it much of a victory one wonders?
They managed to bring back the three Aquilea and dislodge Arminius from power. It was a war more to heal the damaged pride of the Romans than for territorial, economic or geopolitical gain which is why Tiberius and Germanicus were given plenty of soldiers and supplies while expecting little in the way of spoils and territory and after the campaign was done they basically left Germania to itself.
Later emperor Domitian basically did the same thing, leading a campaign into Germania for personal glory and returning to Rome victoriously without really having achieved anything tangible at all.
Sources on that? Seems like a German cope tbh
It is a German cope@@Bolognabeef
Very informative, well done.
Thank you!
do a video on drusus, his campaigns are so crucial yet so rarely talked about
KS Say Agreed, he’s one of the best generals Rome had, he was even the first Roman general to reach the river Elbe.
Great content! I would love to hear about the Dacian Wars by Emperor Trajan. Or Emperor Claudius' conquest of Britain.
Mongols season 2
Napoleon after Spain
Caesar after Axona
Ottoman after Mohacs.
I think theres too much on K&G's plate
boy am i excited
lets add more to the list!
@@DamnedHistory Forgot to mention they apparently started a Pyrrhus series too. I don't like the 'all over the place' video output. Course I still watch
They're biting more than they can chew.
you forgot half-life 3
Nice, i was waiting for this one :D
Good :-)
Why not explore the Ilyria in 9 AD? (:
Excellent.
@@andrewhurtado9656 I hope they will do it.
It always surprises me that Alexander the Great never conquered Illyria.
@@htrland There were numerous Illyrian tribes. Alexander allied with some of them. Married an Illyrian princess to solidify the alliance. Conquered some of the Illyrian tribes around the Ohrid lake. Lyncestis, Panoians and Taulanti if i remember correctly. Alexander was not interested north of Ohrid where Dardanians,Panonians and Dalmatians lived. He was interested in defeating Persia to the East. He made it his life goal actually since he was a young boy.
That's interesting. I get that he wasn't interested in conquering all of Illyria. Perhaps he thought that conquering them (and the Scythians for example) wasn't worth the cost. However, this also means that he didn't technically conquer all of the "known world" (not even his northern neighbors), as is often claimed. Sure, he defeated the Illyrians and the Scythians in battles, but that's still very different from conquering them.
One of your best videos guys
I feel like if Tiberius had actually conquered and tamed Germania at that point, Rome would have staved off much of the trouble that came centuries later
No empire lasts forever
the germans would not have accepted a conquest, they would have used the first opportunity to rise up and rebel.
just look what trouble karl the great had with the saxons.
That would have been interesting considering the next major threat was the Hunnic invasions
weisthor0815 Germania would not have been worth it anyway. The Germanics of that time had no professions, no economy really at all. all they did was kill and forage. A German province wouldn’t have generated a trade surplus and would thusly be largely pointless. Much better to raid across the Rhine for slaves now and then and make sure the border tribes stay divided.
not really most the barberians lived in modern day eastern europe.
Hey there... First off I love your channel... Umm could u do some ww2 battles like sedan, Dobrak Sound etc... You guys r just amazing 😍😊
Cheers from India 🇮🇳
The conquest of Germania wasn't worth the economic cost in short terms, but the fact that they let it as a threat, lead to the Western Roman Empire's demise eventually
@@Lykyk You seem to be thinking that military success is solely defined in terms of land gained. Keep in mind, Germanicus wasn't seeking to conquer territory. His entire expedition into Germania was a punitive expedition, meant to punish the Germans. Which is exactly what it achieved. It punished the Germans. It devastated their economic potential, reversed Germania's sense of victory over the Romans, and undermined Ariminius, ensuring that he couldn't use his popularity from Teutoburg Forest to unify the German tribes into a single, cohesive nation, capable of threatening the Romans.
The importance of undermining Ariminius cannot be overstated. The Romans were quite understandably afraid that Ariminius might use his popularity to convince the Germanic tribes that the Romans could be beaten, but only if he was in charge. There were even fears that Ariminius may ally himself with the Dacians, Illyrians and Thracians to wage a multifront war on Rome.
Defeating Ariminius twice demonstrated to the German tribes that Teutoburg Forest was a fluke, that it was less skill and more luck for Ariminius (whether that was actually true is an entirely different debate, I'm merely concerned with what was perceived at the time). It gave the impression to the other tribes that Ariminius was not some sort of great genius, that he was no better than them, and that he could be beaten. Thus it exacerbated the existing divisions in Ariminius's coalition, leading it to fragment into war.
Germanicus didn't take any land because he didn't need to take any land. He just needed to divide and destroy Ariminius, and his campaigns succeeded in that masterfully. He discredited Ariminius and also sent a message to other would-be opponents of the Empire that Rome was not to be trifled with. That an enemy may win a battle against Rome, but it cannot hope to win the war.
@@Killzoneguy117 nice answer.
You seem to forget, that Western Roman Empire was most threatened by the tribe migration caused by the Huns. Those tribes came from lands farther away than Germania.
Also, Germania was a quite unstable province. Western Roman Empire was quite strapped for resources by 4th Century AD and I would imagine, that continual subjugation of the province would cost a lot more than Rome would gain from it.
And lastly, Germania was mostly inhabited by client tribes and fiefdoms friendly to Rome, so they really were not under such a threat, that would warrant a conquest. Of course, tribes like Marcomanni still posed a threat, but were mostly located in Pannonia, not Germania.
@@Lykyk if you want to talk about ancient authors how about you read what they wrote yourself, now if you would have known what they wrote then you would have known that Tiberius was a paranoid prick(and i'm being kind) and more or less forced Germanicus to abandon his germanic campaigns for the exact same reasons that Agricola was forced to abandon his caledonian campagin decades later(different players, different land, but the same game) which was to halt any further popularity from being gained by these individuals so that they couldn't pose any sort of threat to the Emperor's legitimacy to rule(especially in the case of Tiberius), also all the ancient authors are in agreement as to the fact that it was Tiberius who ordered the poisoning of Germanicus both as to eliminate a direct threat to himself and to secure Drusus(who as still alive at the time) as the sole and unchallenged heir to the imperial throne, and lastly since you mentioned Tacitus maybe you should read his works your self and make up your own mind on the events of the the day rather than let someone else to do it for you so here: penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/home.html this website contains the largest online compendium of ancient works out there, enjoy ;)
Actually they had conquered much of it during Augustus' and already starting to turn the land into a colony til the events of 9 AD. It's just that later Tiberius decided that it's not worth the huge efforts to reconquer all that again. There were also plans to conquer Bohemia that were abandoned.
A Legatus was a General. A Governor was a Proconsul, or Procurator respectively. The command of a not fully integrated region could have a Legati Augusti pro Praetore. But the governor of formal provinces were not called Legatus.
Just a quick question. At 12:55 or so did germanicus’ auxiliaries just get slaughtered or what? They melted pretty quickly.
Must say this is one video i enjoyed watching more than the others
Good. :-) Hopefully, we are improving!
Germanicus was a very aggressive general. It helped that the Romans he commanded were extra motivated, but he used that to his advantage. Good piece. Helped me learn more.
Hopefully, you guys can do something about the Phlippines. Either World War II, the Philippine Revolution against Spain, or the Philippine-American War. I'd appreciate it, thanks!
Can't wait for them to make an epic film about this magnificent roman general....
Germanicus would have made such a great emperor. Instead, we got his son, Caligula. I once heard speculation that Tiberius was jealous of Germanicus' popularity and assassinated him, then used Caligula as one of his 'boys' (Tiberius was apparently very perverted even for Roman standards) That is speculated one of the reasons Caligula was so crazy.
Great content!! Great work.. more Rome videos plz!!??
The Roman Empire in Terminator Arnold Schwarzenegger style "I'LL BE BACK"
I have taken numerous history courses while I was living in Europe. The classes were great and insightful; however, I learn more from your videos than I did from the courses. It is a proven fact, you need visuals and knowledgeable people teaching. Which videos from your library should I watch to learn more about the Roman Empire? Also, what should be the order that I watch them in? Thank you for the informative videos.
Germanicus lost the opportunity to grab the throne and eventually lost his life. Probably an assassination from Tiberius. He understood war but not politics.
There is a book series called Soldier of Rome Artorian Chronicles by James Macethat focuses about this time all the way to the invasion of Britannia and it follows a character named Titus Artorius Justus who serves in the 20th legion
This is brilliant --> *Anything Rome-related*
But _I_ like this --> *Caesar's Gallic Wars*
Yes, it will come!
Great reconstruction. Thanks!
Great vid, though genetically Germanicus (And the future Emperor Claudius) was the material great-great nephew of Augustus and legally, following his adoption by Tiberius (who was required to adopt his nephew following the death of Gaius Caesar in 4 AD), was Augustus' grandson.
I'm so excited for this!
Arminius was a worthy opponent, but in-fighting is everyone's enemy.
@tacotony24 Indeed. It doesn't matter how good of a commander you are, as long as you have to face the biggest military power of the known world in open battle you'll lose.
@jim doe You mean in the middle. They still lost to the Germanic tribes in the end.
@@AnthonyEvelyn true
You know what they say: When in Rome, do as the Romans do... Start a civil war.
@jim doe the Romans never conquered Germania. We always remained unconquered. Lieber Tod als ein Sklave!
Excellent job.
Learning German in school. All I hear as a true Roman is “Bar Bar Bar Bar”
My favourite channel on youtube
Thank you!
Germanicus to Arminius: "speak up, I can't hear you talking about Teutobourg anymore.
Great video, thank you 👍🏽
Thank you very much for watching!
Remember, dear children
No matter what you do,
What has been done to them
Will surely be done to you
Most overrated Campaign in history. We only have roman sources so of course they are full of propaganda. Basically all the war criminal Germanicus did was taking a third of the total roman military at the time to burn a few small villages and slaughter the small marsii tribe who were celebrating a religious ceremony at the time and were completely unarmed, only to get his rearguard annihilated by the avenging neighbor tribes. In the following battles he won against a largly outnumbered opponent by using his "barbarian" auxiliaries who did most of the fighting and stil apparently suffered losses high enough for Tiberus to consider further conquest-effort not worth it. Otherwise why would the emperor have changed his mind? Most certainly because the victories were not as clear cut as the roman writers made them out to be. in the end germania remained free. That is what matters.
just commenting because I like your username
@@SantomPh Thank you~
@@mikeisteinmongozwei5434 Yes, it remained "free"
If by free you mean becoming a Roman client state, then yes.
The Cherusci accepted Italicus as their king, the son of a Roman legionary and the anti-Roman faction (i.e. Arminius' party) was killed
Germania Superior became effectively a puppet state under Roman authority despite being "freed" by Arminius
In fact, from what I understood of the Roman-Germanic wars, it seems to me that the Teutoburg was more of a phyrric victory than much else
Note: i am NOT disrespecting modern germany or the germanic peoples, i just wish to provide a small correction to your post.
Thank you for reading by the way!
@@mikeisteinmongozwei5434
what sources do you need? the germans were defeated and rome took revenge for the defeat suffered in teutoburg.Moreover, you say falsehood, because after that terrible defeat, the romans entered and left the teutonic forests every time they needed slaves for the empire. they were never annexed to Rome just because the territory was of little interest to the Empire. If they wanted to, they would have crushed and subdued all the Germanic peoples, as they did with Gaul, Britannia, Hispania, Greece, Pontus and dozens of other civilizations .