Goddess of Sin - Dark Souls Lore: Velka
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Goddess of Sin - Dark Souls Lore: Velka
Let me know what you guys think in the comments below! I'd love to hear your thoughts about who created the legend of the Undead, and why Velka has been fighting with the Gods. Make sure to give MSPainting and John Quick props as well.
Ballers in the Dark Souls Lore community you should check out:
MSPainting: / mspainting
John Quick: @NowQuick
EpicNameBro: / epicnamebro
VaatiVidya: / vaatividya
Quelaag: / quelaag
TerraMantis: / terramantis
Polish subtitles provided by: Dawid Jędrzejko
it's amazingly ironic that the only character in the game that can pardon your sin gives you the gesture used the most after someone does some scumbag shit to you
I think it was Velka. And I believe Velka is the narrator that tells the player the prologue and that the Undead go to Lordran in pilgrimage. The giant crow is either the embodiment of Velka, or an agent that is tasked to take the Chosen Undead to Lordran.
I absolutely love the Cold War that happens between Gwyndolin and Velka. Both characters rely on proxy wars to throw jabs at eachother. It is a big game of chess where you are the main pawn. And we all know the importance of a pawn in a chess game, and what he gains when he reaches the other side of the chess board, that is up to the Undead to decide, if he links the flame, or embraces the dark, but either way, he takes the place of the King.
+Alexandre Batalha
After just watching this video I was thinking the same thing that the narrator at the beginning is Velka and setting up the journey that the player takes through Lordran.
Daniel spencer
Makes sense, doesn't it? And if that's true, it is a briliant touch, since she adresses the player, "YOU", and that gives a cool personal touch to it.
+Alexandre Batalha yes yes since what dave said about velka has been around since the ancient time when the gods wipe out the dragons, thus being full of knowledge about the tragedy really justifies that the narrator IS velka... man because that would be awesome
+Alexandre Batalha i think Velka is the narrator also. It would only make sense. as if shes recalling a story to someone.
crazybongo5 yup, funny thing, the same narrator is used to Dark Souls 3, and what do you know, Velka has a part on it as well. This only reenforces that the narrator is indeed Velka.
Maybe the Crow Demons are the original Blades of the Darkmoon, and when Gwyndolin took over, he cursed them to make their bodies "show their devotion" in order to spite Velka? It would explain them dropping Souvenirs of Reprisal.
That sir, makes the most sense. Deforming them "to show their devotion" fucking cryptic man. I give a +1 to this.
Did anyone of you ever wonder why we don't know the name of the wife of Gwynn, mother of Gwyndolin, Gwynewere and the nameless king? Strange, isn't it?
My theory: It's Velka, but she got cast out because she betrayed Lord Gwynn. Her betrayal: she had a child from someone else: Priscilla. She had sinned, but mercy was denied to her. That turned her into the Godess of Sinn, and she wants revenge. Maybe she was a godess of justice before, and Gwyndolin just got her Job?
That...actually makes sense. Internet Cookie for you!
i was thinking the same thing, especially with Seath's title as " The Traitor" why call him that if he betrayed the dragons and not Gwyn? also it would make sense as she is also holding a child in her statues, possibly a child who was shunned or trapped, like Pricilla?
True and Priscilla is trapped in the same world is Velkas followers
*****
but Greek mythology also had Hera.
And we have mother+child statues everywhere, which indicates worship of "divine motherhood"
Except it is said Velka is a black haired goddess and none of Gwyn's children seem to have black hair or anything of the sort. Any miracles associated with Gwyn or Gwyn's followers depend on Faith, not Intelligence. Velka isn't the goddess vengeance, that's Gwyndolin's domain. Velka is the goddess of sin. Velka and Gwyndolin are enemies, not because Gwyndolin might be her son and she got cast out, but because Gwyndolin takes Velka's name in vain.
Did you know velka is a finnish word meaning "debt"?
Why doesn’t this have more upvotes?
Awesome video Dave. I'm not sure if it was your best video yet through writing and editing or if Velka is simply one of my favorite topics, but I think this is your best lore video yet. It was probably a bit of both.
Thanks so much! I definitely had fun with this one, as Velka's one of my favorite topics too. Now hurry up and finish your next video so I can watch it! :)
DaveControlLive
i realy like that you are like a small community which helps one another
GreekTeamGaming i look forward to their dark souls 2 vids when and if they come out.
RyuKaguya I've got the Collector's Edition already paid in full. I can pretty much guarantee Dave's done the same. Oh it's happening.
TerraMantis im counting on you guys :D
I do have one outstanding theory that ties into Velka. We see from Oswald that Velka functions on a catholic styled church system. (posessing pardoners.) We can infer from this that her church likely also possesses Bishops.
The most significant Bishop we know of in Dark Souls is Havel the Rock, though we are never told what church he belongs to. His possession of an Occult weapon hidden in Anor Londo and the key stating he was "Locked away for his own good, of course." May imply he was connected to the Occult rebellion and may in fact have been a bishop of Velka's church, and not the way of white.
This is influenced by the number of Velka items locked away in the Painted World of Ariamis, including the Dark Ember. It is from the connection (or more correctly the plausible connection between Havel to Velka) that I theorize that Velka did support the war with the Dragons and it was only after that she became a rogue deity. It could be for various reasons as to why she and her followers rebelled. The disruption of the natural order by Gwyn's coddling the age of Fire, Gwyndolin's manipulation of the undead to further the dying age of Fire (not to mention his usurping of the rights of sin and punishment.) The betrayal of the gods by Gwyn's allying with Seath the Scaleless. It could even be theorized that Velka is the mother of Crossbreed Priscilla due to her heavy presence in The Painted World, the Lifehunt Scythe and Priscilla's dagger both doing Occult damage (and the statues of the mother and child and the key statue not resembling Gwynevere, but more likely Velka.) If that is Priscilla's parentage, the retribution against the gods could be from the affront to her by the treatment of Priscilla or perhaps the non-consensual conception of her. This would further explain their treatment of her. Priscilla being the relatively innocent daughter of their goddess, the inhabitants of the Painted World would be kind to her.
This would tie in Havel's unexplained feud with Seath as being retribution for his actions towards Havel's patron goddess. It would also further the idea that the in-fighting amongst the gods may have culminated in the Occult rebellion and the exile of Velka (and destruction of New Londo, a city that is heavily dedicated to her.)
This is certainly all speculative, but I do feel the evidence does point to Velka being related to Priscilla, and Havel being a member of her church. From these we can construct an MO as to why certain events take place and the reason the world is structured as it is.
Makes sense to me. Belk ousted because she deemed Gwyn's actions a Sin, and I never understood why people keep trying to say Gwynevere is Priscilla's Mom. Like, No, Gwyn would have killed Seeth and possibly Her, not to mention Priscilla.
Dear god. I never, EVER, thought of Velka to be in conflict with Gwyndolin. Granted, I did not know of the crow people info but even still, it's a brand new perspective for me which renders me in awe. Dark Souls has such a subjective lore, either Velka and Gwyndolin being allied or in war there's no way to be certain and therefore no one can really be wrong. I effing love this
Maybe Velka is the mother of humanity in conjunction with with the Furtive Pygmy as the father of humanity? She's one of the few deities in Lordran that isn't directly hostile to the player or other humans after all, and crows are often associated with 'dark' deeds.
That's actually quite fascinating to hear.
I find it interesting that in dark souls 2 the dlc is called scholar of the first sin. referring to gwyen linking the flame. was it this sin she was trying to punish?
I've always kind of thought the big crow was Velka. I mean really, in the flesh. I justified this feeling with the fact that she is a god and may be able to take on more than one form. One form being of course a humanoid form and another being full on giant crow and this is why her crow people in the Painted World are hybrids of the two. Kind of a wild theory I know.
Velka is the narrator of Dark Souls, the woman who speaks at the beings and end.
So many great theories, I love your lore series. :)
I like the idea that Velka was possibly Gwyn's wife and mother of his children. The father is Sun/light, the mother is Moon/dark. Gwyndolin's feminine traits tie him to the moon and he oversees the Darkmoon blades.
'Sin' is one of the names of the Mesopotamian mother/moon goddess Nanna: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_%28mythology%29
If his mother (maybe originally from Carim?) betrayed her husband - maybe Gwyndolin is opposing Velka and guiding the chosen undead to rekindle the fire as a way of honouring or finding favour with the father who shunned him?
Great video! The analysis was deep, I've been looking for something to cover Velka so in depth for ages!
However, regarding your theory about Velka wanting vengeance on the God's, I think it could be for another motive rather than because of them simply killing the dragons and taking control.
Velka was a Witch, meaning that she was perhaps born as a human with magical talent and utilised that to gain incredible power and influence, becoming almost like a deity and cult-leader in that sense.
The God's were seen as being afraid and almost repressive of Humanity, fearing the Dark Soul in all of them and their rise to power when the first flame would eventually vanish, taking control from the God's thereof. I believe this could have made Velka vengeful, as Gwndolin was most probably instructed by Gwyn to Shepard the humans to keep the flame going, using the undead curse to create suitable sacrifices to keep the flame burning and to keep the God's of Anor Londo in power, which she would most likely deem a Sin.
This plan gave Velka, an unconventional deity with huge influence, the chance to take part in the plan under the guise of wanting to assist them, while secretly planning to overthrow them. She worked with Gwyndolin to gather undead (through the giant crow) while plotting to stab him in the back, as you said. The Darkmoon blades and Gwyndolin's role in meting out punishment (instead of Velka) were perhaps a ploy made by her to make Gwyndolin believe that he had precedent over sin and that she was working with him to defeat any challengers to the God's, ironic, as shown with the occult weapon stash hidden in Anor Londo's basements.That stash shows that she may have worked with Havel, who also despised the God's for letting Seath remain as a Duke and to conduct his terrible research in the Archives, to help overthrow them.
Moreover, she was known as a "Rogue" deity, which connotes "dishonesty" (says google lol); which makes a lot of sense when you take that theory into account!
I know you already said like half of that, but I enjoyed writing/ranting my little take on it anyhow :3
This actually makes more sense than the theory of her waring openly against Gwyndolyn!Congrats!!
Thanks! I'm glad you think that :P
Jack OfBlades As this video says, Velka is a schemer.......
KARKAT VANTAS My main problem with this is how would she possess such a power to defeat the 'gods'? even with the dark ember making occult weapons to help kill them, in order to get to the damn thing you have to defeat VELKAS so-called servants. In my mind, this doesn't make much sense considering Velka wants to kill gods and has an ember but yet hides it behind a painting and crow people. I probably just have to think this through but its not making much sense to me at this point
Mitchell Emery well considering her world is in the gods' city, she would have to guard it so it wasn't swamped by royal sentinels and silver knights
Gwyn's linking of the fire was the first sin and Velka is trying to punish the gods for it. Gwyndolin is trying to further the age of fire and hence further the first sin which is why Velka is at odds with him. I think she became a rogue deity once she opposed extending the age of fire instead of letting it naturally play out.
Ok, so I've got a theory on Velka's following. Her statue has her protecting a small child. Some say the child represents an actual character, but what if it's an abstract child? Velka protects the innocent, and seeks out those who are not. This would mean that the occult realised that their undead curse was not caused by themselves, but by Nito and Gwyn (as discussed in (the comments of) your previous lore video).
The reason that Carim would be linked to Velka alot, is because of a phenomenon that actually occurs in our world a lot. People who do morally evil things (such as backstabbing, murdering, stealing) often seek absolution in a way (whether it be religion or a personal way of dealing with it). In Carim, the great amount of evil deeds would be countered by people confessing to it. Oswald mocks the whole forgiving process in his speech, as if he's used to saying it to people on a daily basis and understands the irony of it.
On Gwyndolin and Velka: It may well be possible that Velka is Gwyn's former wife (how else would he have gotten children). Since Velka is associated with the Moon (dark arts, witchcraft), this hereditary trait would possibly be passed on to one of her children; Gwyndolin. However, since Velka left Gwyn and her children because of the sins of her family, Gwyndolin was never taught about sin, and instead was raised by Gwyn. This would explain why Gwyndolin uses Moon items, but for exacting vengeance on those who would dare to oppose Gwyn's rule.
Gwyndolin finally makes sense now D:
I don't know why my comment keeps disappearing D:
What if the undead curse was started by Gwyn (and Nito) to stop the Abyss from growing in size, and Velka punished this sin by turning it on Gwyn himself, by aiding Undead to get to Gwyn to carry out his punishment...
I want there to be a Velka covenant so much, especially after this.
Frederick of Carim is currently roleplaying as a Pardoner.
I might be mistaken about this as I've never researched the matter...but who is narrating the story of Dark Souls in the beginning? After hearing your theory about Velka possible creating the prophecy of the undead, I sort of like to think that it's her. Considering the possibility that she observes the gods and sees them as guilty...well that's just my random thoughts on the matter.
I like to think it's Velka as well, though, in the end there's no way to prove it.
DaveControlLive No, I think that Velka is angry at the "gods" of Lordran for trying to extend the age of fire. Velfka probably thinks that the if the First Flame fades and goes out, it should be allowed to do so. However, the gods tried to artificially extend the age of fire. First, the Witch of Izalith tried to duplicate the first flame (which failed). Then, Gwyn sacrificed himself as fuel for the First Flame. Both acts were against nature and could have been seen as sinful by Velka. Also keep in mind that Gwyn and the other lords weren't gods until they obtained the Lord Souls. Given that Velka is an actual goddess and these so called gods were going against nature by trying to artificially extend the age of fire, it probably got her attention in a negative way. If I was a god and some pretenders tried to go against the natural order, I'd want too destroy them too.
darkwzrd4 Except for the fact that the gods were most likely also created by the fire. I don't think that Velka cares much for nature, too. (Plus, nothing done in the games or real life is actually ever unnatural. We are following our natural desires in doing certain things. NOT doing them would be unnatural).
im pretty sure its one of the firekeepers, because in DS2 you meet some old fire keepers and one of them sounds just like the narrator
I know this isn't proof of anything but it is entirely possible for the narrator to be Velka in dark souls, and the firekeeper be the narrator in dark souls 2 because they are voiced by two different actresses.
Oh and notice how the image of the statue in the undead parish, the shrine of the 4 kings and the statues in the painted world are the same; of course they are Velka and while all the other gods are hanging out in Anor Londo she got shuffled of someplace else. Perhaps she is meant to be closer to humanity and she actualy cares for them, and that is why her parish and new londo are close to where both normal humans and undead worship her
This video... is fucking amazing. Good job, Sad thing I watched this quite late.
Ahhh this video makes me so happy. I love that other people have picked up on the fact that Velka is the Goddess of Sin, not justice. "Sin" in this case could be defined as acts forbidden by Gwyn and the other gods allied with him. Therefore Velka is a goddess of acts in opposition to the other gods. I really like your reasoning about Gwyndolin in this video; that was one part of the lore which never made sense to me before.
I think you're right. I also think Velkas the voice we hear telling the story in the beginning
Now I'm feeling self conscious about whom I serve. I humbly serve my Goddess, Velka. But I do so working for Gwyndolin in his Blades of the Darkmoon.
This is the best lore video ever made and hints at the ending of Dark Souls 3 DLC
Wow... I blown away by this lore video. You indeed, put a lot os time thinking this trough.
I... never ever thought of Velka like this. I mean, we all knew she was the goddess of sin, but her role in the makings of Dark Souls' universe, seems infinitely more meaningful.
Very good lore video. While VaatiVidya is my favourite DS UA-camr, you covered the subject of Velka extremely well. :)
velka must be punishing everything after gywn committed the first sin of kindling the first flame and not letting the age of fire cease and allow the age of man/dark to begin
I just made a comment saying this myself. I totally agree.
+Peter Caffrey there could also be lords of dark in play here too like lords of cinder im dark souls 3 there could possibly be lords of dark
+Joshua o'malley Judging by a TINY thing in Dark Souls 3, I have a feeling Velka doesn´t want the Age of Dark either.
SPOILERS!!!
In Dark Souls 3 not all unkindled become hollows when they die, you need to get a "dark sigil" from an NPC to become hollow(this starts a questline).In this questline you can become the Dark Lord and usurp the First Flame. However, for this quest to be completed you have to get many dark sigils and don´t heal them.
There are three main ways to cure the dark sigils. One is paying souls to the Firekeeper, using a purging stone(doesn´t stop the quest) or pray to the statue of Velka,paying a fee to get rid of the hollow level.
So, if the statue of Velka can cure the dark sigil she probably doesn´t want a dark lord to rule the world.
Velka really is a freaking ambiguous character
@@takezokimura2571 gwyn was said to have started the curse during the first war to deny the undead glory ( souls/power ) and to shepherd the undead causing them to lose their humanity with each death and to go insane. Fearing what would happen if they rose up and demanded an age of dark.
Further proof that not all humans have the darksign and that some that visited lordran purposely invited the curse (solaire) (seigward)
I wish there was a huuuge thick book explaining everything.. thats what i truly want.
so I accidentally killed the pyromancer by saying yes, and am a pure INT build. I wanted to go straight for the crystal tin staff. but only have 4 chaos fireballs to kill seath with... then this video reminded me of Velkas talisman and the occult weapons! You and Velka just saved me from restarting my playthrough!!! I love this channel!
My theory, formed up by bits of different vids and comments, Is that Velka is Gwyn's Wife but was called
(Fina is her mother-godess name, and Velka is her justice-godess name),mother of Gwyndolin, Gwynevere and (Solaire) Velka was angry at her husband and pals for their sins(dragons), but her Fina side loved his family too much.
Then she heard that Quelana of Izalith had been raped by Death, and that their child (the cross-breed) was hated and feared, and as the motherly goddess she was she helped Quelana make the P.W. of A., which they then proceeded to protect with
each others followers (birdmen, fire-hollows, and Salaman/Jeremiah)
Then, along with Kaathe, and
Gwyndolin at the start(he later was seduced by Kaathed and intimidated by what happened at Ooacile, and betrayed her mother, which stopped their later rebellion, but followed her as the next "official" god of justice) ,now aware of how cruel the Gods could become, started the rebellion which culminated in the stealing of the rite of kindling, destruction of new londo, and the creation of the legend of the undead, to kill all gods and "Bring balance to the force" if you know what I mean
I just realized at 10:28 the velka statue in new londo looks like its place ontop of a upside down and broken lordvessel... the overthrowing of the gods and "extinguishing" the first flame..
I think that you (your character) was Velka's ultimate plan of vengeance, with the Crow taking from the asylum to Lordran, land of the gods, to the doll being back in your cell allowing you to enter Velka's land of worship which holds some items which are perfect for killing gods. Also take note of the black knights guarding your cell, maybe Gwyn caught on to Velka's plan and tried to you from obtaining the doll.
lovely addition
Velka is the Peter Baelish of Dark Souls
My theory is a little more extreme. That before the age of fire even began, there where "old gods" who created the dragons. One of these old gods either by accident or on purpose created Seth the scaleless, bringing mortality into the world. This was considered a great sin but because the world was gray there was no way to judge the old god. So the other old gods decided to take all but a fragment of the old gods soul and cast the rest into the world, creating the first flame. That old god was Velka, and as punishment for the first sin, Velka became the god of sin. The reason Velka is trying to kill the Lords, is that she believes if she can reassemble all the fragments of her soul, then she can regain her power.
TL:DR Velka is a much older entity than anything else and the first flame is her soul.
I like your theories on Velka. I think Velka was either a part of the god hood in Anor Londo or on good terms with them at one point as Vow of Silence says she had a great range of influence even among the gods. Imagine her response when one of the god's names appeared in the book of the guilty. Could be enough to start a war. I think the dark moons initially served Velka but we're taken through subversion by
Gwyndolin during the war with Velka.
Dark souls 2 seems to elaborate on the theory that this cycle of linking the flames, rekindling the souls and the entropy caused by the dark curse is in fact perpetual. The great souls found new vessels, which either had similar qualities to the last vessel or displayed qualities the soul was attracted to. The Old Iron King in DS2 holds Gwyns soul in NG+. Both had great power, passion and desires. Whereas Gwyn seems at least partly more benevolent then the old iron king. Not exactly alike, but similar. If these great souls do in fact turn ordinary people INTO gods, why are the souls themselves not considered gods? Perpetuating the cycle of heat and cold, life and death. This seems to be Gwyndolins ultimate goal as well, continuing his/her fathers legacy after his sacrifice. I think the story of the chosen undead goes back even before dark souls 1. Who knows now how many cycles there have been? The story could be ageless. Velka however seems to want it all to stop, to end the age of fire, to stop the cycle of life and death which afforded so much power to Nito and Gwyn, or at least the souls who inhabit them. Who knows how long she has tried?
WOW!!!!!!!!I AM BLOWN MAN.YOU GOT IT.YOU GOT THE LORE OF DARKSOULS.
And i was thinking i had watch all the lore videos.
Not to discredit the man for his wonderful videos, but I found this video more insightful and FAR more interesting than VaatiVidya's video regarding Velka. I believe Velka is one of the most important characters in Dark Souls, and I'd love to see her up close and personal in the DLC for Dark Souls III... perhaps as a boss?
Anyone noticed the cry the crow makes when lifting the chosen undead at 2:55 is taken right out of the audio files of The Lord of the Rings : The Fellowship of the Ring when the black rider screams and approaches Frodo and Co. when they're preoccupied farming mushrooms? Funny.
Wow, this is by far the most in depth Lore video you've released (that I've seen). Few of them actually have realizations that aren't totally obvious in the games lore (no offense), but this one was mind-blowing :D
this was a great video! very thought provoking, many of the comments on this video share some of my thoughts as well. very happy with what you're doing here
I think that Gwyndolin and Velka were originally friends being that Velka had some sway with the gods (Gwyndolin) He possibly met her by knowing Ariamas ,who was probably one of the deities who left along with Gwynevre. Or Gwyndolin was a fan of Velka's idea of punishing the guilty after see her work hidden away in the painted world. (what else does he have to do all day? for years at a time) and decided to put his own spin on it by allowing hero's to defend his beloved capitol and using Velka's book of the guilty as a tool to have undeniable proof of the sins of the people that the darkmoon blades hunts. The crow taking the player to Firelink can't be a coincidence and it's more likely to be true that she wanted the chosen undead to do what she couldn't and slay the gods who have sinned,The occult rebellion had to have been her doing. Very well thought out video.
Maybe you all guys know this already, but suddenly it all
clicked in my head: Velka has chosen “us” NOT TO be the succesor of Gwyn, but
to PUNISH ALL THE GUILTY THAT NOW HAVE SPREAD ALL OVER THE WORLD. The others
will try to distract you from this veiled, unknown misión (like Gwynevere and
so) telling you to Kindle the first flame, etc. But, maybe, MAYBE the truth is that you are sent by Velka to punish every
sinner in the world…misión perfectly doable since “we” are UNDEAD and seem to
never go Hollow completely.
well, all undead can go hollow, we don't because most of us finish the game and link the flame, and Gwynevere is just an illusion.
Ehi Dave, i want to share with you a theory about Velka made from an italian youtuber called Sabaku no Maiku: Velka is Beatrix. The first clue is that Beatrix dress and catalyst reminds a crow, for its design and its feathers. Then she didn't studied at Vinheim, like the normal sorcerers and actually it's even ostile to it. as you said, Velka was at the same age of the gods and probably the first sorcerer that doesn't use flames, and Beatrix catalyst is described as extremly old and passed to her after many generations. And another thing you may not know: at the beginning Beatrix was supposed to be a little girl, not a women, and that we shoulded meet her at Oolacile. And in the original dark soul's script the doll to open the world of Ariamis was her possession. The world that venerates Velka...
That's an interesting theory. But, and this may be trivial, Beatrice has gray hair. Velka is known for having black hair.
Thanks for sharing!
I actually did know about the child Beatrice/Beatrix, but I think that Beatrice was supposed to originally be Velka's duaghter, as opposed to Velka herself. All of the descriptions of Beatrice, as you say (and Sabaku no Maiku) say are very similar to Velka, but the child thing makes me think she was supposed to be the baby that the statue was holding in the painted world. - The mom in the statue being Velka, and the baby being Beatrice.
But, hey, I'd never even considered Beatrice was Velka herself, so that's definitely an interesting theory!
DaveControlLive A GAME THEROY!!!!!11!! Sorry but I had to. :)
jgamer king Lol. Well done.
Seeing each other's view on the lore is just so damn interesting. I definitely love this take on Velka's lore. Also the theory crocalu posted.
Very nice video, thank you. Could it be that Velka had a thing with an everlasting dragon and she also gave a birth to Crossbreed Priscilla. That could give some explanation to the statues of the Painted World of Ariamis too, since the mother statue clearly isn't Gwynevere. The slaughter of the dragons enraged Velka and she organized the failed rebellion from which you can found remnants all around the realm (occult smith, Havel, painted world, hidden occult weapon in Anor Londo). The story of the Chosen Undead is also a story of Velka getting her revenge.
I am on my first playthrough and most of the game was spoiled for me but I was debating what ending I wanted to do and this video has convinced me to choose the dark lord ending.
given the statues in new londo and the painted world. is it possible that precilla is the daughter of seath and velka, rather than gweneveir? there may be a piece of dialouge or an item description that im forgetting, but i dont recall any part of stone cold evidence that precilla is related to gwen, and i find it more likely that the offspring of velka would be treated as an abomination than the grandaughter of gwen himself. i also find it more likely that seath, who treasures knowledge, would fall in love with velka, who wished her followers to be smart instead of faithful
I never get tired rewatching your videos.
Indeed, one of the best Dark Souls Lore Videos ever. Really. And probably your best so far. Thank you.
And thou who art drenched in sin: Be aware, because the servants of Velka are comming for you!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it, I put a lot of work into it.
As always, more questions than answers. Dark Souls is like this... the only certainty is that the cycle continues endlessly.
I think the crow people in the Painted World drop the souveniers of reprisal because they too collect them for Velka and is why Gwyndolin has his followers collect them as well.
I watched your videos on Gwyn and Gwyndolin, and I want to say that Velka was Gwyn's wife and that would explain why there seems to be such a strong connection between Velka and Gwyndolin, she raised him. He may have even helped her during the rebellion, but regretted it or changed his mind and switched sides, driving a rift between him and both his parents. Trying to make amends he watches over his fathers tomb and city, and sending the members of his covenant to punish sinners could be showing his anger towards his mother, but at the same time not having thrown away all she taught him. (if that makes since)
Could also be they started out as partners in the Chosen Undead story, But in the end He was either tricked by the serpent, or chose on his own to use an undead to relight the flame, where as his mother wants to either simply enact vengeance upon individual deities, Or bring about the Age of Dark as the final repentance for their sins against the dragons.
Velka is versed in arts old and new, so it would make sense that she has the power to counter the Gods. This is likely why she has wide influence among them; they fear her. That said I doubt she revealed her part in the occult uprising, though she seemed to spread around multiple ways of killing Gods to her followers.
One thing you missed is the occult club, hidden in Anor Londo right next to Havel's hidden armour. For both of these items to be hidden in the same room holds some significance, it could even be that Havel turned to the occult following due to Gwyn's allegiance with Seath [whom he hated,] and this lead to his locking in the tower by Gwyn. I think what adds value to this theory is that occult scales with faith, so Havel would be arguably one of the most potent followers if he was to turn to the occult.
I think it's interesting how Velka and Gwyndolin do seem to counter-act each other. However there is a fact to consider with the giant crows in the Painted World. The crows could actually have been working for Gwyndolin - remember that you gain a souvenir for killing a sinner in Gwyndolin's covenant. [This seems unlikely though.]
This makes velka even more of a badass, it’s so cool how a mentioned character that makes no appearance in the game. Can have so much influence on the games story
I like to think that the Darkwraiths helped the followers of Velka and others in the occult rebellion. The gods themselves feared the lifehunt power, and the Darkwraiths are especially gifted. And Velka likely enlisted Kaathe to help corrupt the Four Kings, as well as to manipulate them into helping end the Age of Fire... the ultimate punishment for Gwyn's sins.
Velka is like ninball. In armored core 1 you are a RAVEN. The raven's nest is under the control of supercomputer Nineball. Tasked with the survival of humanity. Nineball uses the ravens to control the world from the shadows. Both fromsoftware games. Just a theory.
Awesome video Dave!! your other ones are top notch as well! im excited to see your fan base grow as you make more awesome videos!!
Also for the mythology, the four lords and the other gods are clearly separate. The lords rose to the status of gods. The lords came from the mortal world, birthed when the flame was born. But the gods are older, and from a realm beyond. There is also a mention of a flame god that gynever eventually married. Perhaps he is the one responsible for the first flame?
I think these assumptions may be misled, the Lords may not be gods, but Lord Gwyn and his family are called gods as well. Gwyn even has his uncle, All-father Lloyd, who is a god, but who I don't think would have any such power as Gwyn's. This is what leads me and others to believe that gods are just another type of race. Of course, all opinions are valid, this is just one of the many. Peace.
What is Velka's influence on the primordial serpents Frampt, and Kaathe?
They seem to both be "schemers" with hidden agendas.
And that would also put Velka in connection with the Darkwraiths by virtue of Kaathe. This supports the finding of Velka's statues in the flooded city of New Londo
Wow im definitely subscribing to you! That was awesome!
Gwendolin is in league with Frampt. Velka is in league with Kaath. I think this is a nice, simply way to sum up my why it would first appear that they Velka and Gwen are somewhat working together or otherwise in league with each other. They are actually against each other, but their end-goals require some of the same things to happen.
I don't have any evidence to back it up, but I have an idea for Velka's motive for punishing the gods: When the Witch of Izalith plotted to recreate a First Flame--presumably with Gwyn's blessing, it's possible that Velka objected to that.
I believe Velka is Gwyn's wife. When Gwyn linked the fire, she immediately ran off and plotted against killing the gods for Gwyn had disrupted the cycle of fire and dark. Because of this, Gwyn's actions may lead to perpetuate the age of fire by leaving the gods alive to exploit the "chosen undead" to continue disrupting the cycle and continue the age of fire.
Similarly, I believe each ruler had a spiteful wife that plotted against them. You look at Vendrick and Nashandra.
We know the First Sin was linkin the First Flame by Gwyn. And Velka is the Godess of Sin.
Maybe she is the Wife of Gwyn & want the chosen Undead to slay him for his Sin because Gwyn broke the Cycle. Another thought. She wants the chosen Undead to end his sad life & madness that he can die & rest, because he´s simply her Husband. We dont know if Velka is alife or not. But the Crow is 100% a servent of Velka who had the task to take the chosen Undead to his fated Journey.
And there are contrary He is Fire & She is Ice, like the Song of Ice & Fire. ( Dont take this srsly. )
I like your theory more than mine.
I have watched this video several time now and love the speculation. I can't wait to play the game and, maybe, see the connections more concretely.
Now, on my personal pregame-play theories on Velka, I have several, but to do them justice, I feel I need to research on some thing and actually write an essay on the matter. I really like to cover my basses, especially if I am going to propose new theories to and "old" game. Here are three big point that stick out in my mind about the black haired witch, God of Sin.
[Velka's and Gwyndolin]
First, I do agree that Velka strongly influenced, if not lead the occult rebellion, especially sense the majority of her esthetic, items (or at least her rapier), and her being a witch at all lends the player to that mind set. But if she was in that mess, why would she line with Gwyndolin n dealing with the gillty. While I would like to do more research on sins and The Darkmoon Covenant, I believe that Gwyndolin took that covenant way from Velka and using it to his ends. While Gwyndolin is assosiated with the moon, he comes from a familly that realats to the sun, and his desciptor as being a "Dark Sun" reflects this.
[Velka and Gwyn]
Second, though only coming up with this thought while viewing of this video this time around, that Velka was, if not is, Gwyn's wife, hens the statues in New Lando that where not defaced nor bringing any apparent ire for Gwyn or his followers. On a similar note, I can also see, if she is not the wife of Gwyn, but she is the furtive pygmy. Nothing is set in stone in the game that suggests that the furtive pygmy has to be male. In fact, The Witch of Izalith is a female with a lord's soul and is the counter balance to Nito (though we can't be that Neto is a he do to "his" form), and for the fact that she is seems to be idealized, if not worshiped on New Lando, a place heavily populated by humans.
[the voice of the intro]
Third, and while this might be a miner thing for most, but what do you think about the narrator of the into sequences, and, as for a I know, is never her of again. While, the voice actress may for other parts, but not necessarily using that same voice. I would like to tack a stab in the dark and say that she is Velka, telling us this. If this is true, she could very well be the furtive pygmy because the furtive pygmy is not "directly" mentioned anywhere else in the game (Though Kaath seems to refer to him as the main character's progenitor). This does have implications for Dark Souls 2, but we can save that for a later date.
This might as well have been my essay, but their is a lot I need to go over if I am going to be more confident in my theories on any matter dealing with Dark Souls Lore.
Keep up the good work.
That voice line of oswald congratulating you, I got it right after I killed the iron golem.
Velka has been the lady narrating the tutorial and stuff this whole time
Maybe the reason why Gwyndolin is abusing Velkas position of punishment is because those that end up in the book of guilty have either invaded other worlds or attacked NPC. This would make sense because those that are invaders use either a red eye orb or a cracked red eye orb (both which are darkwraith items). Also, most NCPs seem to be in favor of linking the fire and Gwyndolin.
I just thought of something. Maybe I'm crazy but... do you guys think that... that Velka could have been the one who began the Undead curse? As punishment for the sins of all?
This is an interesting theory. It could fit. But I personally think that the Curse has something more to do with Gwyn and the whole Age of Fire. Gwyn is trying to fend off the Age of Dark, or the Age of Humanity, so he rekindles the First Flame. If Velka is indeed behind the Occult rebellion, it wouldn't make sense for her to create a Curse that would seek to prevent the overthrowing of the Gods. Just my take; I don't have any better answers myself
I personally believe that Velka was Gwyn's queen. Nashandra is to Vendrick, as Elana was to the Sunken King, as Shanalotte is to Chosen Undead 2.0. Velka was Gwyn's "dark" queen. The very first shard of Manus.
I also believe that she seduced Havel The Rock, in order to incite to "Occult Rebellion"
I agree with pretty much everything said here. Velka seems to want to punish Gwyn and his allies for their rise to power and abuse of humans. This would fit the theory suggesting that the Lords are responsible for the creation of the Undead Curse to bring discord between humans and force them to give their humanity to bonfires to remain human. Velka would want to punish them, as this would be a tremendous sin.
Also, as I've said in the New Londo video, I think she would personally want the ushering of the Age of Dark, for Dark would eliminate disparity and thus bring back equality. While it is not literally stated that she is the godess of justice, she is responsible for hearing out the sins and punishing the sinners adequately. That sounds exactly like what a godess of justice would do, although she might consider herself more of an avenger, bringer of a "darker" kind of justice (Batman?).
She would gain much by advocating the Age of Dark, since all beings would be equal and thus justice/revenge/punishment would be done.
If Velka were actually Gwyn's wife and Gwyndolin's mother, the statues in New Londo would be far less of an affront to Gwyn. It could also explain why Gwyndolin has something of a quasi-symbiotic relationship with Velka and the Velka statues and statue of the mother and (presumably) Gwyn's firstborn near the sunbro alter are so similar. It would be easy to see her having been there for the destruction of the dragons, too.
Hmm, makes for an interesting theory. Basically not only does the ending you choose decide if the age of fire continues, or if the age of darkness starts, but it might also coincide with the ideals of the two sides of the "war" between Velka and Gwyndolin. Gwyndolin wants the undead to link the flame once more, and keep the age of fire alive. However my theory is that the legend of the chosen undead wasn't just something that was made up. It might have been something they legitimately believed. Then Velka, knowing that a chosen undead would one day come to claim the lordvessel and kill Gwyn and that she could do nothing to stop it, aided the chosen undead to get to Lordran, and knowing that he or she would have to go through the four kings, sacrificed them for her cause of taking out her enemies, and then sent Kaathe to the abyss after the death of the four kings in order to win the chosen undead to her side, ensuring they wouldn't link the flame. It would make sense since the only place you see Kaathe is in the abyss where her pawns were just at a moment before. Also It's possible, that she didn't account for Frampt appearing before the chosen undead, however, and that changed her plans. But in the end she was using the chosen undead to kill her enemies, and then have him refuse to do the one thing that her enemies desperately wanted; to link the flame again. This time ushering in the darkness to rule. The theory still has holes (like Kaathe's link to Oolicile, and why she wouldn't just send more people other than a creepy ass cultist and a phallic shaped creep to try and win you over) but yeah, that's the most I can come up with
What if Velka is punishing the gods for prolonging the Age of Fire? I don't get why a god would want the Age of Dark, but if both she and Kaathe were responsible for the Four Kings betrayal, then it's possible they were working together. That's a long shot, though.
As for the legend of the chosen undead, I don't think it was made up by anyone. When other undead die, they don't come back. The chosen undead does, but of course this could simply be a game mechanic. I think Velka just realizes that the chosen undead is her best chance to end the gods and she offers him/her the ability to absolve their sins as long as they pay a toll. Including killing a god himself.
Great video by the way. Velka is about the only god I like in Dark Souls because she never seems to be against the player. That and I have an unhealthy obsession with the color black.
See, one thing I just thought up relates to Velka's Karmic Justice "To define the sin and mete out punishment" now, from that it sounds like Velka decides what sin is, what is classed as a sin and what the correct "punishment" would be but, the problem with this is that according to who's definition does she function to? If it is to her own that gives her a vast array of freedom of choice.
Super interesting theory at the end, her manipulating the undead to finish her war with the Gods. All the speculation in this game makes my head hurt.
I am a bit piffed that Velka practically had no presence in Dark Souls 2.
I agree, I was really hoping to see/hear about more of her.
Who knows? Maybe she (or something similar) might show up in Dark Souls 3?
Oh wow, are we already discussing what's gonna be in dark souls 3? At the end of the day I think some of the Dark Souls 2 press release was unintentionally a little bit misleading. I personally mistook the hawk in the trailer as a crow and there's also a giant crow in the background of in that Dark Souls comic. So I got all excited and then was a little bit let down. But hey presumably there will be a Dark Souls 2 expansion. Fingers cross it explores Velka and the disappearance of the other gods as well.
She's most likely Caitha, Goddess of Tears during the events of DS2.
Well from you pointed out in the video, it seems pretty clear that Velka was warring against the gods, or self proclaimed gods. Perhaps she is a true god and these over powered beings have sinned, such as the dragon killing perhaps, or perhaps even announcing themselves as gods. It could also be that she created the undead system to counter another sin of the gods, unnaturally rekindling the first flame. It would be two birds with one stone(speaking of the gods and the rekindling as the birds.)
I LOVED this video. As the dumb fuck that i am, i never questioned the presence of a giant ass crow that brings the undead to che shrine.
And now that i think about it, to bolster the theory: the key to enter the painted world is hidden in the very place undead are kept, maybe for them to find the secrets hidden inside.. And the very power of Priscilla, to use against the gods themselves.
This video opened my dumb mind, mister.
My theory is this, both velka and gwyndolen started separate rumors of the undead, and each spoke to the corresponding serpent. gwyndolen started the rumor where the undead is destined to continue the age of fire, and velka started the rumor where the undead is destined to begin the age of man.
i truly believe that Velka is Pricilla's mother, is there a worst "abomitation" than a crossbread between a dragon and the goddess of sin who created the occult rebelion?, why else would pricilla be inside the painted world along with velka's worshipers?, finally if the statue at 2:43 really is a statue of velka then who is the child whom she's holding?
this also makes sense with your final theory; if Velka sees the lords as sinful for killing the dragons it would imply that she had a close relationship with the dragons, it also explains why the followers of the occult tried to steal the power of Nito, maybe to try to bring the dragons back? wild expeculation i know
(sorry for any mistake, english it's not my native lenguage)
Priscilla is inside Ariamis because the gods feared her. They also feared Velka because she wants to see the gods punished. Hence, they're both trapped in the same world. The fact that the followers wanted to steal the power of Nito is a good point though. We don't really know why they wanted to.
Tarantula33222 With the power of death they could raise an army of infinite soldiers or raze an army created by the current "gods." It makes perfect sense.
Another great lore video +1
Thanks so much bro! It's always appreciated! :)
the mother is angry that her daughter is hated and locked away in a distant land via some artists creation , she loved her daughter even though she is an abomination , and as for vengeance , she plotted .....
I LOVE DARK SOULS LORE
+Dave Control have you ever considered the concept that maybe like in the lore of dark souls two, where there is always a dark queen who is a kings ruin, that perhaps Velka was gwyn dark queen. After witnessing all of the sins gwyn had committed in order to begin and maintain his age of fire plotted to end him and restart the natural course by in a way siding with humanity and "backstabbing" gywn and spread the abyss. She is a schemer afterall....
+Jay Stone Interesting, stil the dark queens are born of Manus' desmise at our hand and only took human form during DS2 cycle. Which, btw, reinforces the idea that the Abyss exists out of time and space, or in a different way. Like it stays still and can serve as a link between places and times, as Manus brings us back to past Oolacile and the dark sisters shows up out of seemingly nowhere after a few cycles, plus it's influence seems to distord time and space as it grows, as seen in Lordran and Drangleic.
My theory concerning Velka, given that we know now that Gwyn's linking of the First Flame is refered as the "first sin" by Aldia is that from that point she deemed the gods as worthy of retribution and was outcast or killed by Gwyn's followers, or maybe simply gone into hiding, and all that had a link to her was sealed in the Painted World. Then Gwyndolin took her place at the head of the Darkmoon and used the covenant to his ends, one more reason to not show himself. Maybe Velka was Priscilla's mother or had a hand in her creation as associating with dragons to bring down the gods would have seemed like a good plan. Maybe when the dev team abandonned the idea of using Priscilla to level up they first "recycled" her into Velka, then abandonned this idea too and put all these unfinished concepts in the Painted World because there were still interesting things to make of it gameplay wise.
how could one man be so creative. .
miyazaki obviously
Anyone came back to this after dark souls 3 was released and we were introduced to the Statue of Velka?
Is it possible Velka could be Beatrice, or at least her mother. Beatrice is found in the game in the 2 places where the abyss took hold. The ruins of Oolacile in the forest and New Londo. Who could traverse the Abyss but a god? Assuming Velka has a connection with the Four Kings and the Abyss.
I definitely think it's possible. Hell, they're both Rogue Witches with black hair. Also, initially Beatrice was going to be a child... so seems like an interesting connection.
my theory is that velka isnt angry at the gods for killing the dragons, she is angry at them for forcing the age of fire to exist past its time, and instead of allowing the age of dark, quite possibly HER age( speculation but she is very much associated with dark) to come into being, they fought it, thus sinning, so she began stirring up trouble
Head Canon: Velka was ousted because she added Gwyn into her Book of the Guilty. Seeing as someone had to deem Gwyn's actions against Man and the fading First Flame as The First Sin.
well velka may be gwyn's unfathful wife, as some people pointed out before, gwyn's wife is never mentioned, actually all we know about his family is: he has 2 sons and 1 daughter, one was cast away from godhood, whence why we dont know his name( though people theorize that solaire is this son) the other is gwyndolin, and the last is gwynevere. We also know that lloyd is gwyn's uncle(somewhere in game mentions that, if its wrong...sory then) and thats it...so perphaps she betrayed gwyn with someone else, in the painted world we see supposed velka's crow hybrid followers, stuff that kill gods(occult, velka's stuff) crows and priscilla, a exiled dragon hybrid, so maybe she betrayed gwyn with a dragon this explains velka's statues with the child and priscilla lifehunt ability so feared by the gods(occult powers) i mean, the scythe made from her soul is occult, the dagger from her tail is also occult, so having priscilla as her daughter, its only natural to keep watch over her with her followers.
Velka may also be just a deity, but she entered in conflict with the gods, so gwyn stripped her from giving sins a punishment and gave this task to gwyndolin, further feeding her rage, plus the blade of the darkmoon punish and avenge sins towards gods, and you are awarded with souvenirs for killing velka's follower, the crow demons, now, this could mean that velka is indeed a enemy of the gods and they want to see her dead and all those who follow her.
As for priscilla, she fits in whatever theory you have about velka in my opinion, she can be the proof of velka's betrayal upon gwyn, or she is simply a random deity's daughter, but for her being a hybrid and for receive god-killing powers from her mother, she was banished with all that represents velka, to the painting....but why does occult weapons scale even harder with faith, than divine weapons....well perphaps, before the conflict started, velka was actually a faith deity, but due the her powers and the following events, she came to hate the other gods and she became a witch, with even more knowledge and now she requires inteligence from her followers, rather than faith.
Maybe Velka is what we would now define as a "child of dark"
Crazy theory here, but what if velka is in line with kaathe? Consider this, kaathe tried to spread the darkness by using manus and the four kings, while velka tried to kill the gods using the occult rebellion and the dark ember. What exactly occult damage is is also an important point; we know that dark sorcery (later known as hexes) is similar to the soul arts, but utilizing a person’s humanity rather than their soul. Occult damage on the other hand is birthed by the "dark ember", and is deadly against the gods. Logically, what would most hurt someone possessing the lord soul of light? Being struck with the power of the lord soul of dark perhaps? This would make the dark magic that kaathe promoted the same as the occult power used by followers of velka. Their relationship would explain why velka brings the chosen undead to lordran, to kill the gods and leave the fire unlit, just as kaathe desired.
Final bit of speculation here, what is velka? We know that she is a goddess, but her power is not of the lord souls. It is reasonable to assume that she existed before fire, either making her some strange offshoot of the dragons or part of another race that existed before fire, somewhat like the serpents. If this is the case, it makes sense why she would view the anor londo gods and the fire itself to be a perversion of nature, and thus scheme to see it die out; this also happens to be the exact same line of logic followed by kaathe in his desire to see a return to dark.
Velka doesn't have to be punishing them for killing the dragons, the gods have been sinning a lot since then, when the which of izalith created the chaos flame. Sin. When Gwynn fought nature and sacrificed himself. Sin. And even non gods, when seath stole young maidens to test on them.sin.
I don't know if this means anything. But Velka is a dirrect translation from the word debt in Finnish.
Havel could assist Velka, cause there is an occult club in his chamber in Anor Londo.
way late but velka being gwens wife an mother of Priscilla makes sense especially since Gwen's 1st born chose to side with dragons. maybe there's a connection to shanalot as well since her statues an even a crow as well as the title sotfs.
There's a lot of comments so I don't know if this has been talked about but here goes. I'll try to keep this short. Velka posessed an occult weapon and her crows flock to the dark ember. occult weapons are used against the gods. she is a rogue deity. the book of the guilty's description could say this if we consider velka as the subject of the sentence: the goddess of sin velka oversees the list of the guilty and shall one day face the wrath of the blades of the darkmoon. Among several other references this is my take. Velka sees man as sinners and believe man should not have to hide what they are, like the rest of the creatures we find in the painted world. there is a lot of evidence that the gods see man as inferior as they do crossbreeds and deformities. I would even say Velka deceived Gwyn to sacrifice himself for possibly numerous sins in the name of genocide and segregation. This is why Gwyndolyn, affected by loss, guards his tomb diligently, and issues out gifts of reprisal in the name of vengeance for hunting down followers of Velka.
love your lore videos dude! keep up the good work!
oh my god the dislike to view ratio is like 1 to 10000 very good work as always
About your question about who "created" the Chosen Undead's legend, I believe no one did. I think it was a genuine construct of a dying society of (very) anxious mankind. It was their existencial angst and need for escapism that coined the legend, long ago. If it is at all part of a plot... Then I believe they are merely cannibalizing upon pre-existing lore for verisimilar mannipulation.
I like to think she is neutral too. Crows and ravens are of the same special family and often symbolize the same things throughout all human cultures; particularly omens of death and winter
I've been playing a lot of D&D recently as a Raven Queen avenger, and from what I understand about her is that she, being the godess of death, loathes the undead and necromancy as it cheats her out of a soul
Perhaps Gwyn's sin is creating the undead curse by sacrificing his soul to the flame?
Also, I'm willing to bet that Priscilla is her daughter. The statues of her holding a child are too circumstantial to be coincidence. I'm also willing to bet that the painted world was once a part of Lordran - perhaps the home of Velka, a magnificent keep - which was trapped in a painting either by her to prevent the gods from killing her daughter, or by the gods preventing her daughter from killing them. Priscilla can turn completely invisible, which seems like a very Carim thing to do