I bought a hulk 181 in a 9.0 with no stamp. It looks amazing. I have no prob that a peice was cut out. I hope some kid in the 70's finished his stamp collection. My mindset is would rather have a higher qualified copy with no stamp or tattoo then a lower grade that looks like toilet paper.
haha, can't argue with that logic. Also atleast with a cut out you know exactly what happened to it, there is transparency compared to a restored book.
Hey you’re crushing this. Nobody is tackling the content you are and as consistently as you do. Great communication skills and style. Appreciate what you are doing for someone like me in the community!
I remember Todd McFarlane showing off his collection and he had a bunch of purple labels like AF 15. I think each purple label is unique and just serves as a warning as to how much alteration has been done to the book so you don't end up buying like a classic comic with bright bleached pages and ink corrections throughout. It reminds me of the Ship of Theseus scene from Wandavision, people might feel like they're not getting the authentic book if it's been altered. Green labels should rise in value along with blues and yellows, and it does seem smart to pick them up at a discount. If you really hate the green label and think it will affect the value then I would just sell it raw in the future.
I guess the Green Label is overall more "transparent" then the purple. Atleast you know what you are getting...so to your point I could see those rising in value.
I have a Hulk 180 and 181 from when I was a kid. Bought them off a spinner rack in what ... 1974? I cut the stamps out of both, because that's what kids did at the time. DOH! Most the Marvel Stamps cutouts do not effect the story. At least I still have the comics, and the covers still look great at least. Keep up the great work. Love your shows.
Woah that's awesome you picked them up from back and the day, and kinda funny that you yourself cut out the stamps :P. But like you said, I feel like that's just a part of the history and the Lore of the industry :D
I think your spot on with the “Art’ concept🤔 To me after you slab them it’s all about cover presentation at that point.. so yea I have no problem with books being restored, I mean at the end of the day who cares if there’s a cutout missing, you’ll never see it 🤷♂️
Glad you are addressing this. I have two restored books, Avengers 4 (4.5) and FF 50 (4.5, with only a small amount of color touch). I owned both raw then sent them in for grading.
As long as the coupon or value stamp that’s cut out doesn’t affect the story I have no issues. I agree that restored and qualified labels are a great way to get harder to find books at a much better price.
A lot of collectors are still unaware that most books with minor color touches can be removed by a professional. So yes, if I were to get a super key, I would definitely buy one with a minor color touch and then get someone to remove the restoration and resubmit for a slightly lower grade.
How do you know if a color touch up is removable though. I had a book with slight C-1 ct and cgc informed me flat out that they were unable to take action on it 🤷🏻♂️
This is an EXCELLENT subject. I sent you 2 examples of slabs I bought and are now proud additions to my collection. Both were extremely affordable. By the way, trimming doesn’t bother me. Just as you point out the value of glue or even tape, trimming has a value as it removes frayed edges that can lead to serious tears.
Totally agree with you! I would much rather have a nice book that's missing a piece inside as long as it doesn't affect the story than missing a piece on the cover. It's totally crazy to me that it's ok for a piece of the cover to be missing but an interior piece is so frowned upon. I think we as the comic community moving forward should show some love to these great restored and qualified graded books!
I'm glad you brought this conversation to the fore. It never really made a lot of sense to me that a tiny bit of restoration would tank the value of a book to the point where it costs less than a raw book that looks like a dog's breakfast. And if there's a stamp missing inside the book, and it doesn't affect the story? And it's already slabbed? And you don't plan on re-selling it? Pull that trigger! There's likely tremendous value there, and a potential avenue to getting your hands on a book that you otherwise wouldn't have a shot at! Great video as always!
Sometimes green label books can have cool defects. For example, i have amazing Spiderman V2 # 12, manufactured without staples. No staple holes in the spine whatsoever - that gets the green label. But I still think its neat.
Wolverine has been my favorite comic book character since I would come home from school and watch the old X-men cartoons back in the day. Getting a Hulk 181 has been my ultimate collecting goal for years. A couple of weeks ago I ended up getting a 4.5 qualified copy of it and it didn't bother me at all that it's missing the value stamp. I paid $2,099 for it and at the time there was a 2.5 blue label that was buy it now for $3,500. I have no regrets especially with how the prices are just crazy these days.
I'm coming around to this as well. I feel there is definitely value in alot of purple label books, especially if you can drive the purchase price down and obviously depending on the extent of the restoration. I just don't think a book, especially bigger keys from the Silver Age and earlier, with a little color touch on the cover should be nearly as devalued as they are. Should they take some hit? sure! But the stigma seems silly and shortsighted for sure. I think there's been some closing of the gaps on some books during the pandemic era craziness, at least with PLOD books, but they do still seem way undervalued.
I'm gonna watch this, but before I do, I have to say I'm a bit upset you beat me to this topic. Was gonna be my next video after an unboxing.... I bet I'm on board with everything you say here....
I totally agree. I still have room to make my commentary on it, but simply put - a missing MVS in a slabbed Hulk 181 is not worth THOUSANDS or dollars. Green label all the way (for the PC.)
I love your take and thoughts on the MVS, and the analogy to the stamp on the cover and the tape on staples. Perspective for sure. I have struggled with the Purple Label for years, if I am being honest, mainly because the industry has frowned on it more than anything. When you mentioned auto collecting, it made me think of toys and hot wheels, and that community has a mixed bag of feelings on this too. That said, a restored comic, a hot wheel, or even a full sized auto we have to remember some of these items are 50 to nearly a 100 years old. I say this to say, thank you. I think I just need to get over it. I will have some raw, blue label, and now purple. To me getting an early TEC or AF15 with a purple label may not be such a bad thing long term. Better presenting, having it in the collection and getting to enjoy it versus never owning it is huge. Plus, in some cases, crack the case and have the color touch removed, or not, who cares! I know this video is almost a year old, but the content was so good, it really got me thinking, I had to comment. Salute!
Thanks for the comment and great points! Yeah its tough, I mean we are all bias and effected by the labels - its tough for sure...but especially on those big books like AF15 there is nothing wrong with green or purple imho
Good discussion. I have purple label FF#52 8.0 c-1, SS#1 5.5 c-1 and SS#3 7.5 c-1 that all present beautifully. HMU. They are yours for a bargain. PS. I had CGC remove the restoration from a Werewolf by Night #32. It was a purple label 9.0. Looked awesome for a PLOD. It came back a 7.5 and looked horrible. It looked like termites had chewed up the book. The point being is I think there's a good argument to be made for holding on to PLOD "grail" books like FF#48, FF#49, FF#52, ASM#50 just to name a few. It may take a decade but the books with a-1, b-1 and c-1 restoration will be nice alternatives for many. To your point, most people put them up on a wall and never open them.
Swag's your right on the money....in some cases I'm being priced out of the mkt. And even qualified books that are missing an interior page or cut out.
I totally agree and have bought restored books from the silver AND golden ages. For silver keys, the most I'd consider is a slight restoration (not moderate/extensive), e.g. slight color touch. On qualified it depends on the type of "incompleteness." Married pages, a missing backcover or cut page that affects the story I'd skipped on. Intrestingly, even though pressing is not considered restoration, I've started to see more blue labels that include "comic pressed". I'm not sure why, except is this a hint of some future warning where even these types of graded books will someday be frowned on too?? 🤔🙄
I’m ok with restoration on bigger books but if it’s missing a stamp that’s incomplete and I would rather have a low complete book than incomplete. Just my two cents
Here’s the thing about restoration. You still own a Hulk 181 regardless of label. The purple, green and “conserved” label is just an expensive asterisk. In your case, since you prefer your books raw, I think restoration wouldn’t matter at all. Especially as you try to complete Avengers 1-100(btw how’s that going?)
I've been collecting since 1985 and restoration was never as frowned upon as it is today. It was just a way to have nice looking books for our collections. There were lots of people who were doing it as well as conservation (professional and amateur). That all changed with the arrival of CGC into the market and the general rise in the value of books. To have the "dreaded purple label" became a scarlet letter in the hobby. When bigger money was starting to be paid for key books, the demand for unrestored copies rose as well. I myself don't mind slight or minor color touch on my books as long as the structure of the books remained unaltered. I got some fantastic deals on expensive keys as recent as last year so why not? Just because of a few well placed specs on the cover? I'll take it! If it was a scribble on the cover it would get a blue label. And yet people today are pressing books like crazy. Is that not a form of restoration as well? Personally I wish the grading companies would put on their labels all the books they have pressed themselves. It used to be about just having a key. Now its about how much a key is worth. Great video.
That's an interesting little history lesson. Yeah I can see how it has morphed into the "scarlet letter"...but when I really think about it in terms of "preservation" I feel like replacing staples or gluing covers isn't all that bad of a thing.
@@Swagglehaus It isn't a bad thing if you are interested in just having a copy. Everybody has their own criteria. For me, the older and rarer the book, the more likely I would tolerate restoration. Its on a book by book basis.
What a great topic. I think it depends on what you're looking for from the hobby. If you're trying to maximize value, it makes sense for now to focus on blue label - until other labels start catching up. If you just want the satisfaction of completing a collection (my category) then I don't see why it matters. I can see it both ways with a display motivation - if you're displaying for yourself, why does it matter? If you want to show off a display to other hobbyists, that blue label might matter. I think it really boils down to personal motivations and tastes.
I could not agree more!!! I sold a World's Best 1 40 years ago for chump change ( still brings a tear to my eye...) A few weeks ago on Comic Collect I think it was, an 8.0 CGC restored "Slight Professional" came available. I paid TT&L $6300 for it. To put that into perspective, it is the highest grade and there are 3 blues and my one purple. According to GPA the last 8.0 blue sold in 2018 for 25K! This was a no-brainer. I guarantee mine looks at least as good as that one and if the Promise Collection has a 9.6 I would have more ammo to go after it. Though in truth I will stay with my purple 8.0. Thanks Swag, I really appreciated this video. They are undervalued and now that CGC has sold, I think I will focus on these for the big keys I don't have, like AF 15. Once on my wall I know for a fact my non-collector friends look only at how pretty the cover is! :-D
Great discussion on a hot topic. I've also noticed that slabbed restored books sell for less than raw restored books. So why have something graded if it's restored? I have no problems with silver-age restored books in my collection.
I think it depends on the collector. Personally I would rather have a complete unrestored book in a low grade that presents ok than a high grade restored or qualified. This also sort of depends on the book. AF15 or Batman 1? Sure I guess I will take some restoration if I can get it. But Hulk 181 is still too 'cheap' (lol) for me to consider restored.
Great points! For me, what matters in a graded book is what I can see. I personally will prefer a book with something cut out inside (if it does not affect the story) compared to a book with a heavily soiled/creased/stained cover. But I can understand why some people may not like color touches because they can detract from the aesthetic of the cover if not done well.
Great topic. You got me thinking about this a lot more. I'm curious if the new money coming in will force us to think differently. I believe if the book looks good in the case, it shouldn't really matter about the restoration or cutouts. Maybe the green labels will start to be looked upon as money labels (the green color) instead of "Do Not Look At" signs. Keep up the great videos. God bless.
To the topic at hand, I think the key is if you are ever hoping to sell the book. If it’s for your PC, then buy what you want! Great point to make that people should stop and think and realize they could get something that is nicer is many ways for cheaper! But if you’re ever needing to potentially sell it, you’re choosing a copy with way less demand :/
restored or not, its always awesome seeing silver age collections. owning a piece of history nonetheless haha. very interesting, restoration market boom? haha
Sometimes restoring a book costs money as well, so that's an argument for those books being more or less equal to blue labeled ones. Still, i think 10-15% less value is called for. But can you get more money for your purple book if you crack it open and just sell it baged'n'boarded?
I say until they start correctly vacuum sealing to keep it as is. Anything that can further mess up the value of the comic in the future like not changing rusted staples or leaving messed up glue to eat up the pages.....etc. should in fact help the value. because paper will only last so long.
Lot of stuff to think about haus. I agree for the most part restoring a book if done well shouldn't be a big deal . As long as it's not half the cover or anything crazy
I've got a gorgeous 7.5 CBCS Marvel Spotlight 5 with 1/8 an inch of the second R in Rider filled in with red marker I got years ago for $200. You make some excellent points.
@@Swagglehaus It's super crisp looking. I asked someone at the shop the other day what he would do with it...and he told me to crack it and remove the restoration via cutting it out. I'd never heard of that angle and took it into consideration, but with your video and the recommendations of Redditors, it stays as is.
You are on to something for sure. Ultimately it comes down to the purchaser, but the market has been created by the grading companies, dictating what qualifies as original content. I used to build custom motorcycles, Harleys, as well as restore, and generally you would use OEM replacement parts for the authentic restoration. Similar to automobiles. Customizing was a different world, with its own value, consumer driven this time, where a skilled craftsmen would add his/her touch to any given bike. In the comic world it's a wild west, except for the grading companies. If there were acclaimed restoration companies, highly sought after, maybe things would be different. It's all very interesting though.
@@Swagglehaus OMG if they did could you imagine how slow they would be to turn out grading and restoration. I really feel that the small group of official grading institutions has fallen short on internal organization. From a business standpoint I bet they are only staying alive because of shear volume. If this were a market of real competition, rather than necessity, all of these businesses would not survive. Not sure my point is getting articulated.
The issue is the whole grading scale is based on how perfect a book is, from newsstand fresh to a rag. And I’m my pc I have golden age action comics missing pages, and I love them
An interesting topic and one that immediately got me asking: Would I rather have a beautiful classic car or a beautiful classic car with a missing passenger seat? 🤔 lol apples and oranges I know. I personally see purple and green labels as slight eye soars. That’s not to say I don’t have any restored books, but given the opportunity and means, I’ll swing for a presentable “universal” blue label or even consider going without. Great video, thanks for the topic
I think if you are buying for the PC then the label does not matter buy the one that looks best. If you are buying to sell on then I think you have to take it into consideration. It is likely the un restored book will hold value better and have a better long term return. The best place to buy keys (if you can find them) is your local shop(s) or conventions. As you found with your Strange Tales 111 there are some great deals to be had if you shut down your PC and get out and about, and those guys need your support now more than ever
I agree that there is too strong a bias against qualified and purple labels (which are sometimes for VERY minor restoration). CGC, I think, had no choice but come up with the qual label option because they were building on the poor foundation of Overstreet. Most interpretations of Overstreet say a missing MVS should get a 0.5 or 1.0 max. In a survey I saw, most collectors felt this was way too harsh.
I Am challenged with this concept...because the first Uncanny X-Men #94 that I bought in "Mint" condition had been hit with a marker to hide a couple spine tics...BTW...I paid $60
I think the problem with a sudden increase of value in the restored book market is that it'll encourage amateur restoration. More people may begin to try and profit off the arbitrage of turning low-grade, unrestored pieces of art into higher-grade, 'Frankensteined' purple labels.
I’ve watched most of your videos but I missed this one until now… just after I bought a restored copy of Batman 273 - I’m on disability insurance from my employer and restored price got me into the market or neighborhood for a book I couldn’t otherwise.
Still a great pick up! I forgot to talk about it in the video, but I could imagine a future where "reattaching" covers with new staples isn't frowned upon.
I've just brought my first restored grade, after saying I never would! Its a 'giant size x-men' 'ng' cgc restored cover off Ebay...I'll never be able to afford a 5.0+ so this is now my grail!! It cost £650, which is cheaper than most the reprints... and this is the actual first appearance..seems a no brainer to me tbh 😉🤣🤯 It presents really well looking at the pics on Ebay..
@@Swagglehaus I'll let you know when it arrives.. although living in the uk means it may take afew weeks to arrive! I own the second appearance of wolverine for £650...I'm ecstatic tbh, the books I've wanted for so long are now in my pc, I've carefully spent afair amount ££££ over the last 6 months or so having been a cgc collector for afew years now. I have plenty of keys, x-men, FF, spider-man, UF 4, nm 98 multiple copies ect, so to finally have my personal grails like ff48 5.5, ff49 5.5 and gsxm 1, grained NG, but still the original book. I couldn't be happier! Now its time to sit back and relax while the market carries on exploding 🤯 Especially when the world economic forum tells us "you'll own nothing, and you'll be happy!" May aswell spend it all before the 'great reset' happens...yeah, try and take my books away and see what happens to ya 🤣
i am newer to comics, and i watched this video to better understand what a restored comic even is. I dont care restored or not. To your point, why not restore things. We have the technology to do so. Also your point about not have the stamp, i think its great that someone collected it, it adds to the story of the book.
Collectors love to nitpick man. Honestly I’m glad you presented this because now I think I might specifically look for restored old books just so I can get them significantly cheaper
I may be open to qualified books, but restoration is a big no for me - this is true for any collectible that doesn’t need to continue to operate mechanically (watches/cars vs coins, comics). Re: art there’s a big difference between preservation and restoration. Preservation is treating the work but only to try and maintain its original elements as much as possible and prevent further deterioration or remove non-original restoration that was done previously, not replace and ‘improve’ damage that was already done.
I have been collecting for 48 years the obsession on devaluing restored comics is crazy. There are beautiful copies that look great and I am happy to buy them. Including trimming as early books were production cut haphazardly anyway. If the trimming effects the art yes otherwise who really cares??
I think restoration is a good thing for sure. I also like the fact that key issues get reprinted. Even though its not the original, it gives me the opportunity to own a classic comic without spending thousands of dollars.
I think that only speculators care about missing stamps and such in books, because it lowers their profits. Like you, i'd rather have a copy of a book with a great cover with a stamp missing than a complete copy with a beat up cover. Also, being from the UK means i'm happy to buy a nicer looking pence copy of a book over a tatty cents copy any day. 😊
I think about all the rusted staples I’ve seen that start to bleed into the paper of the book itself....and how the actual art could have been preserved if they were simply replaced before it got that bad.
Yeah I forgot to mention staples...the more I think about it the more I feel like I wouldn't mind if the staples were upgraded on a book. DOesn't feel like it effects the actual comic all that much.
Green label all comes down to why it is green. Missing ad page? No big deal to me, lower grade 2 points max. Missing main story page? Eh not for me unless talking like a batman number 1. Just have a page from that is nice.
I feel it's crazy that restored gets dinged so much. People will pay money to purposefully damage and lower their grade to get minor colour touch removed. It obviously matter how much is restored but I guess value having one more than not having one.
Speculators are fuelling these prices rises and they feel they can get better returns on blue slabs . Genuine collectors might think more about aesthetics rather than return on investment .
There's a similar bias when it comes to US versus UK price variants, the UK ones are always cheaper. Which is weird because Canadian variants are saught after (right?).
@@vinniwhitlock7080 I'm not sure if this is true or not but someone told me that in some cases, back in the early days, the UK variants were even printed and distributed (slightly) earlier.
I've already had two silver age capt marvels with missing stamps but overall great looking.....I searched for lower grade copies of same issues.combined the two and ended up with one nice complete copy of each.
It`s a pitty this unreal bias with restored. I have one Slightly Restored. As you say, they are art, as paintings or books. Let's hope common sense kicks in in the nearby future and restored comics are justly valued by collectors. Àlex (Barcelona, Spain)
I had a 2.5 blue label la masa, (hulk 181 from spain) I traded it for a 3.5 purple la masa. I actually like the purple better cause it didnt have tape on it.
I have a few restored. It does not bother me as the covers look great. One is signed by Stan. I do have a question for the group. I have never had my books pressed. Does a company do that? And if they do what company?
I just picked up eternals #1 in a restored grade. The restoration isnt even detectable and its a beautiful 9.0. Im happy for a higher restored grade over a low grade unrestored. Depending on the extent of the restoration, of course.
Purple bad. It's a weird mind set that exists. The stamp thing is weird because the comic will stay stabbed forever so no one even sees it. Touch up spots of colour, who cares if it's looks the same as it was.
I’d buy restored books if I can get that resto removed and a car with all original parts would probably sell a lot higher than one that’s restored to be like a new car someone’s gonna buy it but more people are paying premium for all original matching numbers
Sigh, I hope so as I just bought a pricey book with MCS cut out...but it is one of the books I had to have. Time will tale...but I will likely be dead when it comes time for the re-sale so....F...it.
They're definitely undervalued. Comic book collectors are the only people I've ever seen that undervakue restored like this. EVERY book will need to be restored at some point. It doesn't take away from it being an original.
Yeah I agree that eventually everything is going to need to be restored in some kind of way...I have to imagine that restoration will eventually become accepted.
I was looking at an ff48 6.0 purple label and didn’t pull the trigger before it was revised to twice the price....I’m starting to think I’m getting priced out of that book, just weeks too late cos I have cash on hand
Controversial opinion...I think FF 49 > FF48 ....having silver surfer on the cover is such a huge part, and this is coming from someone whose top two favorite character is Silver Surfer :P
So, my thoughts, but not popular. Time, material, equipment, skill, and results have value. I could see paying decently higher for low grade restored to a higher looking grade over the raw low grade. Hell, if I ever get good at it, I may restore stuff and slab it up with grader notes. Wouldn’t be surprised if stuff like that could skyrocket in value over time.
I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Comics were meant to be read and in the process things will clipped and cut by the reader if they don't understand the value of collecting. Once it is enshrined in that plastic tomb what does it matter you can't read the book anymore and the page that is missing or cut is unimportant. I am not a fan of grading comics and have always loved Raw better. You can protect raw books quite well with the ability to open them again and read.
If I can't afford a book that has not been restored then I don't need it bad enough. If a book is not complete then I don't need it bad enough. Green labels are more honest at least than purple labels but purple labels are just pure greed imo.
Old magic the gathering cards that are inked (usually on black borders) reduce your card to damaged, lowering value by over 50%. I’ll never buy restored personally walks to close to counterfeits or manipulation. Also will never buy missing value stamp, also won’t buy missing cover, tapes cover etc. I’d rather just buy a lower grade complete copy if it was about financials. Most collectors are completionists to some degree. This arguement for restored books goes back to the 1980s. There’s a line drawn- why not just buy counterfeits? Why not just buy reprints? Everyone draws the line to their own preference. Each their own
No i disagree if new collectors feel okay that not having a complete book un touched or modified should have no more value than a book that is modified or just because cover looks great than the hobby is negatively affected. Imo a purple or green label is what it is, and for a collector to say they own one. And affects the rarity of a comic being intact all these years and the value applied. A key is a key but a modified or restored anythong is still modified or restored . And its not that a restored cant look great but the fact is anything old can be made to look better now true vintage have that distinct look and legacy .
Why is it if a book is uncomplete it will be a point .5 blue label... But I've seen incomplete books above a point 5 with a qualifying purple label how do you get the difference do you ask CGC.
Oh I think you are mistaken. Restoration will always effect a price. You will pat less for a restored old car over an all original car. Also might want to talk to some antique hunters. Restoration or cleaning always lowers the price and value.
I think you should have picked differed hobbies to compare comics to. paintings there is only one of each one. but who does the restoration will determine the price. and classic cars there are not alot of each one as well, but original running cars to sell more then restored cars. i think a better comparison is the card and coin industry. restoration is perceived the same way. for older collectors color touch is looked on poorly because it was not "restoration" dealers were doing it to cover up colour breaks to get more money. alot happened in the 80s and early 90s. there are alot of different types of restoration and each one is looked at differently that's why cgc recognizes them with different letters. each collector will have to determine what they will want in their collection. but at least when it's graded you know what your getting. I am sure every collector would be upset when they send a book to cgc and want a blue label and it comes back green or purple. so untill that changes I am sure they will always go for less. I my self won't buy any purple or green labels for common book like the 2 examples in the video 1 has 14000 graded and the other 4000. but their are some book's I will one golden age book I am looking for their is believed to be less then 200 copies so I don't really have alot of options to choose from.
Thanks for the insight. I agree they're not perfect examples, but I do wonder if people will be more open minded to these lables in the future. Or imagine if CGC opened a "professional restoration" department...seems like people would buy into that.
they already do restoration as well as restoration removal. ccs is their company. but they do more conservation because it can be very expensive to seal rips and ad missing peices. think cgc should add a new label to the "c' category of restoration because some guy taking a marker to the front of the book is really not restoration and that is what c-1 means for their slight colour touch designation
So glad you did a video on this. I do not understand at all the stigma for the purple label. Green I can understand because it usually means something is missing from the comic. But I buy restored comics without any hesitation if it's a well done restoration. We restore cars and they're worth more money, we restore houses and they're worth more money ( how many TV shows are there?), famous painting are restored on a regular basis, even the Sistine Chapel has been restored. Does that mean it's now less valuable? Not at all! I think eventually the comic community will come around on restorations and I'm going to get all the good deals I can while others still thumb their nose up at them. I would much rather have a purple 8.5 or 9.0 than a blue 6.5 or 7.0. And of course the quality of the restoration matters, but CGC has made that easy with their alphanumeric restore codes.
Yeah I totally agree with you. I'm def becoming more opened to the idea...I don't even mind green because atleast there is the transparency of what is missing.
Great topic. But if you're concerned about values, it's condition, condition, condition. Plain fact. You're better off being disciplined and saving up for a long time to get a nicely graded copy than buying restored or incomplete copies. On the other hand, if it's not about investing, different story.
This is something you will never convince people of. No matter what most people do not want purple or green labels and investing in them is a bad idea. If it’s for your pc sure go fort it if you don’t mind but never invest in it bc people do not want them for the most part
I disagree when it comes to big, expensive keys. I think money is going to pour into this market in the next few years and the gap in price will close simply due to demand and astronomical prices. Look at recent Batman 1 sales of 0.5s that are just shy of garbage. High grade restored AF 15, Batman 1, Superman 1 are all five figures now. 70K for a restored AF15? wow...
I bought a hulk 181 in a 9.0 with no stamp. It looks amazing. I have no prob that a peice was cut out. I hope some kid in the 70's finished his stamp collection. My mindset is would rather have a higher qualified copy with no stamp or tattoo then a lower grade that looks like toilet paper.
haha, can't argue with that logic. Also atleast with a cut out you know exactly what happened to it, there is transparency compared to a restored book.
The tattoo one confuses me. It’s not really integral to the comic.
I have done the same....always wanted the book so....we will see
@@Swagglehaus interesting can you do update on this restored conserve grade vs value
Hey you’re crushing this. Nobody is tackling the content you are and as consistently as you do. Great communication skills and style. Appreciate what you are doing for someone like me in the community!
I appreciate that! So glad to hear you enjoy the videos and I'm humbled that you and others continue to support and watch.
I remember Todd McFarlane showing off his collection and he had a bunch of purple labels like AF 15. I think each purple label is unique and just serves as a warning as to how much alteration has been done to the book so you don't end up buying like a classic comic with bright bleached pages and ink corrections throughout. It reminds me of the Ship of Theseus scene from Wandavision, people might feel like they're not getting the authentic book if it's been altered.
Green labels should rise in value along with blues and yellows, and it does seem smart to pick them up at a discount. If you really hate the green label and think it will affect the value then I would just sell it raw in the future.
I guess the Green Label is overall more "transparent" then the purple. Atleast you know what you are getting...so to your point I could see those rising in value.
I have a Hulk 180 and 181 from when I was a kid. Bought them off a spinner rack in what ... 1974? I cut the stamps out of both, because that's what kids did at the time. DOH! Most the Marvel Stamps cutouts do not effect the story. At least I still have the comics, and the covers still look great at least. Keep up the great work. Love your shows.
Woah that's awesome you picked them up from back and the day, and kinda funny that you yourself cut out the stamps :P. But like you said, I feel like that's just a part of the history and the Lore of the industry :D
Did you save them, and, if so have you thought about putting them back in the book? Mine yellowed faster than the bagged comic.
I think your spot on with the “Art’ concept🤔 To me after you slab them it’s all about cover presentation at that point.. so yea I have no problem with books being restored, I mean at the end of the day who cares if there’s a cutout missing, you’ll never see it 🤷♂️
Totally agree!
Glad you are addressing this. I have two restored books, Avengers 4 (4.5) and FF 50 (4.5, with only a small amount of color touch). I owned both raw then sent them in for grading.
For sure, yeah i don't think color touch is that big a deal
I have the same happen to me and in one case I thought Cgc was mistaken but who can fight city hall
As long as the coupon or value stamp that’s cut out doesn’t affect the story I have no issues. I agree that restored and qualified labels are a great way to get harder to find books at a much better price.
Yeah I agree, seems like if it doesn't effect the story, its not that big a deal.
A lot of collectors are still unaware that most books with minor color touches can be removed by a professional. So yes, if I were to get a super key, I would definitely buy one with a minor color touch and then get someone to remove the restoration and resubmit for a slightly lower grade.
You mean an eraser?
@@RPRsChannel No. I've never witness the removal but I'm certain it's with a laser.
How do you know if a color touch up is removable though. I had a book with slight C-1 ct and cgc informed me flat out that they were unable to take action on it 🤷🏻♂️
@@BoxCatKeys I think if the color touch bled through the cover or is too deep, they could potential damage the book during the removal attempt.
Woah, I had no idea that was possible either! Good to know :D
This is an EXCELLENT subject. I sent you 2 examples of slabs I bought and are now proud additions to my collection. Both were extremely affordable. By the way, trimming doesn’t bother me. Just as you point out the value of glue or even tape, trimming has a value as it removes frayed edges that can lead to serious tears.
I never thought about that for trimming..hmm, if that's the case it def makes me think its less bad.
Totally agree with you!
I would much rather have a nice book that's missing a piece inside as long as it doesn't affect the story than missing a piece on the cover. It's totally crazy to me that it's ok for a piece of the cover to be missing but an interior piece is so frowned upon. I think we as the comic community moving forward should show some love to these great restored and qualified graded books!
I'm glad you brought this conversation to the fore. It never really made a lot of sense to me that a tiny bit of restoration would tank the value of a book to the point where it costs less than a raw book that looks like a dog's breakfast. And if there's a stamp missing inside the book, and it doesn't affect the story? And it's already slabbed? And you don't plan on re-selling it? Pull that trigger! There's likely tremendous value there, and a potential avenue to getting your hands on a book that you otherwise wouldn't have a shot at!
Great video as always!
Sometimes green label books can have cool defects. For example, i have amazing Spiderman V2 # 12, manufactured without staples. No staple holes in the spine whatsoever - that gets the green label. But I still think its neat.
That's a great point! Sometimes defects make a book really unique
Wolverine has been my favorite comic book character since I would come home from school and watch the old X-men cartoons back in the day. Getting a Hulk 181 has been my ultimate collecting goal for years. A couple of weeks ago I ended up getting a 4.5 qualified copy of it and it didn't bother me at all that it's missing the value stamp. I paid $2,099 for it and at the time there was a 2.5 blue label that was buy it now for $3,500. I have no regrets especially with how the prices are just crazy these days.
Sounds like you got a great deal! Congrats on the book! I honestly don't think missing a MVS is a big deal.
I'm coming around to this as well. I feel there is definitely value in alot of purple label books, especially if you can drive the purchase price down and obviously depending on the extent of the restoration. I just don't think a book, especially bigger keys from the Silver Age and earlier, with a little color touch on the cover should be nearly as devalued as they are. Should they take some hit? sure! But the stigma seems silly and shortsighted for sure. I think there's been some closing of the gaps on some books during the pandemic era craziness, at least with PLOD books, but they do still seem way undervalued.
I'm gonna watch this, but before I do, I have to say I'm a bit upset you beat me to this topic. Was gonna be my next video after an unboxing....
I bet I'm on board with everything you say here....
I totally agree. I still have room to make my commentary on it, but simply put - a missing MVS in a slabbed Hulk 181 is not worth THOUSANDS or dollars. Green label all the way (for the PC.)
I still want to see you do a video on it. Would love to here more of your take!
I love your take and thoughts on the MVS, and the analogy to the stamp on the cover and the tape on staples. Perspective for sure. I have struggled with the Purple Label for years, if I am being honest, mainly because the industry has frowned on it more than anything. When you mentioned auto collecting, it made me think of toys and hot wheels, and that community has a mixed bag of feelings on this too. That said, a restored comic, a hot wheel, or even a full sized auto we have to remember some of these items are 50 to nearly a 100 years old. I say this to say, thank you. I think I just need to get over it. I will have some raw, blue label, and now purple. To me getting an early TEC or AF15 with a purple label may not be such a bad thing long term. Better presenting, having it in the collection and getting to enjoy it versus never owning it is huge. Plus, in some cases, crack the case and have the color touch removed, or not, who cares! I know this video is almost a year old, but the content was so good, it really got me thinking, I had to comment. Salute!
Thanks for the comment and great points! Yeah its tough, I mean we are all bias and effected by the labels - its tough for sure...but especially on those big books like AF15 there is nothing wrong with green or purple imho
Good discussion. I have purple label FF#52 8.0 c-1, SS#1 5.5 c-1 and SS#3 7.5 c-1 that all present beautifully. HMU. They are yours for a bargain. PS. I had CGC remove the restoration from a Werewolf by Night #32. It was a purple label 9.0. Looked awesome for a PLOD. It came back a 7.5 and looked horrible. It looked like termites had chewed up the book. The point being is I think there's a good argument to be made for holding on to PLOD "grail" books like FF#48, FF#49, FF#52, ASM#50 just to name a few. It may take a decade but the books with a-1, b-1 and c-1 restoration will be nice alternatives for many. To your point, most people put them up on a wall and never open them.
Swag's your right on the money....in some cases I'm being priced out of the mkt. And even qualified books that are missing an interior page or cut out.
I totally agree and have bought restored books from the silver AND golden ages. For silver keys, the most I'd consider is a slight restoration (not moderate/extensive), e.g. slight color touch. On qualified it depends on the type of "incompleteness." Married pages, a missing backcover or cut page that affects the story I'd skipped on. Intrestingly, even though pressing is not considered restoration, I've started to see more blue labels that include "comic pressed". I'm not sure why, except is this a hint of some future warning where even these types of graded books will someday be frowned on too?? 🤔🙄
Hmm, that would be interesting if people started to qualify pressing...feels like that was a battle that was won a while back.
I’m ok with restoration on bigger books but if it’s missing a stamp that’s incomplete and I would rather have a low complete book than incomplete. Just my two cents
For sure, I can totally see that. I'm mostly the same as you, but starting to reconsider.
Here’s the thing about restoration. You still own a Hulk 181 regardless of label. The purple, green and “conserved” label is just an expensive asterisk. In your case, since you prefer your books raw, I think restoration wouldn’t matter at all. Especially as you try to complete Avengers 1-100(btw how’s that going?)
That's a great point! The run is going well..just picked up a few Avengers books that i'm gonna share soon :D
I've been collecting since 1985 and restoration was never as frowned upon as it is today. It was just a way to have nice looking books for our collections. There were lots of people who were doing it as well as conservation (professional and amateur). That all changed with the arrival of CGC into the market and the general rise in the value of books. To have the "dreaded purple label" became a scarlet letter in the hobby. When bigger money was starting to be paid for key books, the demand for unrestored copies rose as well.
I myself don't mind slight or minor color touch on my books as long as the structure of the books remained unaltered. I got some fantastic deals on expensive keys as recent as last year so why not? Just because of a few well placed specs on the cover? I'll take it! If it was a scribble on the cover it would get a blue label. And yet people today are pressing books like crazy. Is that not a form of restoration as well? Personally I wish the grading companies would put on their labels all the books they have pressed themselves. It used to be about just having a key. Now its about how much a key is worth. Great video.
That's an interesting little history lesson. Yeah I can see how it has morphed into the "scarlet letter"...but when I really think about it in terms of "preservation" I feel like replacing staples or gluing covers isn't all that bad of a thing.
@@Swagglehaus It isn't a bad thing if you are interested in just having a copy. Everybody has their own criteria. For me, the older and rarer the book, the more likely I would tolerate restoration. Its on a book by book basis.
Totally agree!!!!!
This is all speculation driven by novice not true collaborators
You make total sense that it’s part of history. Especially kids collecting the stamps. My dad used to collect the stamps and cut things out for it.
Yeah you would think it would be accepted since it was so common.
What a great topic. I think it depends on what you're looking for from the hobby. If you're trying to maximize value, it makes sense for now to focus on blue label - until other labels start catching up. If you just want the satisfaction of completing a collection (my category) then I don't see why it matters. I can see it both ways with a display motivation - if you're displaying for yourself, why does it matter? If you want to show off a display to other hobbyists, that blue label might matter. I think it really boils down to personal motivations and tastes.
Well said, I agree with you.
I could not agree more!!! I sold a World's Best 1 40 years ago for chump change ( still brings a tear to my eye...) A few weeks ago on Comic Collect I think it was, an 8.0 CGC restored "Slight Professional" came available. I paid TT&L $6300 for it. To put that into perspective, it is the highest grade and there are 3 blues and my one purple. According to GPA the last 8.0 blue sold in 2018 for 25K! This was a no-brainer. I guarantee mine looks at least as good as that one and if the Promise Collection has a 9.6 I would have more ammo to go after it. Though in truth I will stay with my purple 8.0. Thanks Swag, I really appreciated this video. They are undervalued and now that CGC has sold, I think I will focus on these for the big keys I don't have, like AF 15. Once on my wall I know for a fact my non-collector friends look only at how pretty the cover is! :-D
Exactly! My 181 has two cut outs!
Great discussion on a hot topic. I've also noticed that slabbed restored books sell for less than raw restored books. So why have something graded if it's restored? I have no problems with silver-age restored books in my collection.
I think it depends on the collector. Personally I would rather have a complete unrestored book in a low grade that presents ok than a high grade restored or qualified. This also sort of depends on the book. AF15 or Batman 1? Sure I guess I will take some restoration if I can get it. But Hulk 181 is still too 'cheap' (lol) for me to consider restored.
Yeah that's a good point. Not really a "one size fits all rule." Def depends on the book.
Great points! For me, what matters in a graded book is what I can see. I personally will prefer a book with something cut out inside (if it does not affect the story) compared to a book with a heavily soiled/creased/stained cover. But I can understand why some people may not like color touches because they can detract from the aesthetic of the cover if not done well.
wow swaggle, you bring up a lot of great points! You may have converted me into a true believer.
I may have converted myself! haha, been thinking about it a lot.
Great topic. You got me thinking about this a lot more. I'm curious if the new money coming in will force us to think differently. I believe if the book looks good in the case, it shouldn't really matter about the restoration or cutouts. Maybe the green labels will start to be looked upon as money labels (the green color) instead of "Do Not Look At" signs. Keep up the great videos. God bless.
Thanks so much! It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next couple years.
To the topic at hand, I think the key is if you are ever hoping to sell the book. If it’s for your PC, then buy what you want! Great point to make that people should stop and think and realize they could get something that is nicer is many ways for cheaper! But if you’re ever needing to potentially sell it, you’re choosing a copy with way less demand :/
Yeah that's a great point...if its for the PC then purple or green is totally fine.
restored or not, its always awesome seeing silver age collections. owning a piece of history nonetheless haha. very interesting, restoration market boom? haha
Totally agree, I would love a AF15 restored ;)
Sometimes restoring a book costs money as well, so that's an argument for those books being more or less equal to blue labeled ones.
Still, i think 10-15% less value is called for.
But can you get more money for your purple book if you crack it open and just sell it baged'n'boarded?
Yeah exactly...feels like 50% value is WAY under...especially to your crack and sell raw point.
Lol I agree
This video was so good I had to comment twice! Thank you for doing this video!
haha thanks :D
I say until they start correctly vacuum sealing to keep it as is. Anything that can further mess up the value of the comic in the future like not changing rusted staples or leaving messed up glue to eat up the pages.....etc. should in fact help the value. because paper will only last so long.
Lot of stuff to think about haus. I agree for the most part restoring a book if done well shouldn't be a big deal . As long as it's not half the cover or anything crazy
Yeah I agree!
I've got a gorgeous 7.5 CBCS Marvel Spotlight 5 with 1/8 an inch of the second R in Rider filled in with red marker I got years ago for $200. You make some excellent points.
Wow, that's a great deal you got on 1st Ghostrider! Must look beautiful :)
@@Swagglehaus It's super crisp looking. I asked someone at the shop the other day what he would do with it...and he told me to crack it and remove the restoration via cutting it out. I'd never heard of that angle and took it into consideration, but with your video and the recommendations of Redditors, it stays as is.
You are on to something for sure. Ultimately it comes down to the purchaser, but the market has been created by the grading companies, dictating what qualifies as original content. I used to build custom motorcycles, Harleys, as well as restore, and generally you would use OEM replacement parts for the authentic restoration. Similar to automobiles. Customizing was a different world, with its own value, consumer driven this time, where a skilled craftsmen would add his/her touch to any given bike. In the comic world it's a wild west, except for the grading companies. If there were acclaimed restoration companies, highly sought after, maybe things would be different. It's all very interesting though.
Really great points...I wonder if the grading companies started to offer "professional restoration" if the market would be open to that.
@@Swagglehaus OMG if they did could you imagine how slow they would be to turn out grading and restoration. I really feel that the small group of official grading institutions has fallen short on internal organization. From a business standpoint I bet they are only staying alive because of shear volume. If this were a market of real competition, rather than necessity, all of these businesses would not survive. Not sure my point is getting articulated.
@@comicozzi1152 i get what you mean. only thing keeping most alive is the "brand recognition" at this point.
The issue is the whole grading scale is based on how perfect a book is, from newsstand fresh to a rag. And I’m my pc I have golden age action comics missing pages, and I love them
An interesting topic and one that immediately got me asking:
Would I rather have a beautiful classic car or a beautiful classic car with a missing passenger seat? 🤔 lol apples and oranges I know. I personally see purple and green labels as slight eye soars. That’s not to say I don’t have any restored books, but given the opportunity and means, I’ll swing for a presentable “universal” blue label or even consider going without.
Great video, thanks for the topic
For sure, totally understand your point of view on it.
I’m fine with it, I bought my X-Men 94 for $305 CGC 8.5 & Spiderman 300 CGC 9.4 for $515. Both with minor color touch. They look AWSOME!
Great pick ups! I be they do ;)
Great points!
Thanks!
It just depends on the collector. I personally don’t mind too much about restoration if it is fully disclosed. Good conversation to get started.
Yeah transparency is key for sure!
I think if you are buying for the PC then the label does not matter buy the one that looks best. If you are buying to sell on then I think you have to take it into consideration. It is likely the un restored book will hold value better and have a better long term return. The best place to buy keys (if you can find them) is your local shop(s) or conventions. As you found with your Strange Tales 111 there are some great deals to be had if you shut down your PC and get out and about, and those guys need your support now more than ever
That's a good distinction for sure...PC is all about presentation anyway :)
Looked at a Sensation comics # 58 Purple CGC 3.5 for $275.00 .Compared at a blue label CGC 3.5 for $450.00 Probably go for the Purple.. 👍
I agree that there is too strong a bias against qualified and purple labels (which are sometimes for VERY minor restoration). CGC, I think, had no choice but come up with the qual label option because they were building on the poor foundation of Overstreet. Most interpretations of Overstreet say a missing MVS should get a 0.5 or 1.0 max. In a survey I saw, most collectors felt this was way too harsh.
Gotta say, you're making a lot of sense here
hehe, thanks :D
I Am challenged with this concept...because the first Uncanny X-Men #94 that I bought in "Mint" condition had been hit with a marker to hide a couple spine tics...BTW...I paid $60
For $60 you're still def in the green with that one. Some of the prices as of late are crazy!
So glad I grabbed my f.f.49 last year for around 425.00! 4.0!!
say wuuuuuuuuut! Nice score for sure :D I'm jealous.
I think the problem with a sudden increase of value in the restored book market is that it'll encourage amateur restoration. More people may begin to try and profit off the arbitrage of turning low-grade, unrestored pieces of art into higher-grade, 'Frankensteined' purple labels.
If they do a bad job it will affect the grade and they will be run iut. Simple concept.
Yeah good point...I wonder if CGC ever decided to add a "restoration" service to their company. Would people respect that?
@@Swagglehaus That's a really good question. Lets send them angry emails and demand it
I’ve watched most of your videos but I missed this one until now… just after I bought a restored copy of Batman 273 - I’m on disability insurance from my employer and restored price got me into the market or neighborhood for a book I couldn’t otherwise.
Yeah, I got my ff 49 a month ago for 400 Cad and its a 8.0, but a detached cover, which is insane why it went for that.
Still a great pick up! I forgot to talk about it in the video, but I could imagine a future where "reattaching" covers with new staples isn't frowned upon.
I've just brought my first restored grade, after saying I never would!
Its a 'giant size x-men' 'ng' cgc restored cover off Ebay...I'll never be able to afford a 5.0+ so this is now my grail!! It cost £650, which is cheaper than most the reprints... and this is the actual first appearance..seems a no brainer to me tbh 😉🤣🤯
It presents really well looking at the pics on Ebay..
Congrats!! Sounds like a great book, how do you feel now that you own restored? Satisfied? Loving it?
@@Swagglehaus I'll let you know when it arrives.. although living in the uk means it may take afew weeks to arrive!
I own the second appearance of wolverine for £650...I'm ecstatic tbh, the books I've wanted for so long are now in my pc, I've carefully spent afair amount ££££ over the last 6 months or so having been a cgc collector for afew years now.
I have plenty of keys, x-men, FF, spider-man, UF 4, nm 98 multiple copies ect, so to finally have my personal grails like ff48 5.5, ff49 5.5 and gsxm 1, grained NG, but still the original book. I couldn't be happier!
Now its time to sit back and relax while the market carries on exploding 🤯
Especially when the world economic forum tells us "you'll own nothing, and you'll be happy!" May aswell spend it all before the 'great reset' happens...yeah, try and take my books away and see what happens to ya 🤣
i am newer to comics, and i watched this video to better understand what a restored comic even is. I dont care restored or not. To your point, why not restore things. We have the technology to do so. Also your point about not have the stamp, i think its great that someone collected it, it adds to the story of the book.
Collectors love to nitpick man. Honestly I’m glad you presented this because now I think I might specifically look for restored old books just so I can get them significantly cheaper
Yeah i've been MUCH more opened minded to Green and Purple labels recently.
I may be open to qualified books, but restoration is a big no for me - this is true for any collectible that doesn’t need to continue to operate mechanically (watches/cars vs coins, comics).
Re: art there’s a big difference between preservation and restoration. Preservation is treating the work but only to try and maintain its original elements as much as possible and prevent further deterioration or remove non-original restoration that was done previously, not replace and ‘improve’ damage that was already done.
You make some great points. And I totally understand why you wouldn't want restoration.
I have been collecting for 48 years the obsession on devaluing restored comics is crazy. There are beautiful copies that look great and I am happy to buy them. Including trimming as early books were production cut haphazardly anyway. If the trimming effects the art yes otherwise who really cares??
Well said! I'm much more open to green and purple labels than most.
I think restoration is a good thing for sure. I also like the fact that key issues get reprinted. Even though its not the original, it gives me the opportunity to own a classic comic without spending thousands of dollars.
Maybe you can do a video on why ppl on Ebay list books at 150% or more of FMV?
For sure, I would guess that it’s because if a book was listed at FMV someone would buy it. So it’s really the overpriced ones that are on there
I think that only speculators care about missing stamps and such in books, because it lowers their profits. Like you, i'd rather have a copy of a book with a great cover with a stamp missing than a complete copy with a beat up cover. Also, being from the UK means i'm happy to buy a nicer looking pence copy of a book over a tatty cents copy any day. 😊
For sure, I think that's a good approach. I mean if its for the PC, the label doesn't really matter.
I think about all the rusted staples I’ve seen that start to bleed into the paper of the book itself....and how the actual art could have been preserved if they were simply replaced before it got that bad.
Yeah I forgot to mention staples...the more I think about it the more I feel like I wouldn't mind if the staples were upgraded on a book. DOesn't feel like it effects the actual comic all that much.
Green label all comes down to why it is green. Missing ad page? No big deal to me, lower grade 2 points max. Missing main story page? Eh not for me unless talking like a batman number 1. Just have a page from that is nice.
Yeah that's a great distinction, if it doesn't effect story it doesn't seem that bad to me.
I feel it's crazy that restored gets dinged so much. People will pay money to purposefully damage and lower their grade to get minor colour touch removed.
It obviously matter how much is restored but I guess value having one more than not having one.
Totally!
It’s the colour of the label for most people. If the label colour was the same I’m sure there wouldn’t be much of a difference
That's true, def a branding/scarlet letter situation.
Speculators are fuelling these prices rises and they feel they can get better returns on blue slabs .
Genuine collectors might think more about aesthetics rather than return on investment .
Great point!
There's a similar bias when it comes to US versus UK price variants, the UK ones are always cheaper. Which is weird because Canadian variants are saught after (right?).
I agree uk price variants are also a lower print run and more “rare” than the us versions
@@vinniwhitlock7080 I'm not sure if this is true or not but someone told me that in some cases, back in the early days, the UK variants were even printed and distributed (slightly) earlier.
That's a great point! I don't know why a bias would exist...especially if they were all printed around the same time...or earlier...
I've already had two silver age capt marvels with missing stamps but overall great looking.....I searched for lower grade copies of same issues.combined the two and ended up with one nice complete copy of each.
Nice!
It`s a pitty this unreal bias with restored. I have one Slightly Restored. As you say, they are art, as paintings or books. Let's hope common sense kicks in in the nearby future and restored comics are justly valued by collectors. Àlex (Barcelona, Spain)
I had a 2.5 blue label la masa, (hulk 181 from spain) I traded it for a 3.5 purple la masa. I actually like the purple better cause it didnt have tape on it.
I kinda like the purple label too, just from the look, hehe.
I have a few restored. It does not bother me as the covers look great. One is signed by Stan. I do have a question for the group. I have never had my books pressed. Does a company do that? And if they do what company?
Usually individuals do pressing. I would ask your LCS to see if they know anyone who does it in your area.
I just picked up eternals #1 in a restored grade. The restoration isnt even detectable and its a beautiful 9.0. Im happy for a higher restored grade over a low grade unrestored. Depending on the extent of the restoration, of course.
Yeah presentation is such a huge part of admiring a comic. So some restoration isn't too bad.
Purple bad. It's a weird mind set that exists. The stamp thing is weird because the comic will stay stabbed forever so no one even sees it. Touch up spots of colour, who cares if it's looks the same as it was.
Yup, totally agree with you!
I’d buy restored books if I can get that resto removed and a car with all original parts would probably sell a lot higher than one that’s restored to be like a new car someone’s gonna buy it but more people are paying premium for all original matching numbers
Apparently color touch can be removed...atleast thats what people are saying.
Sigh, I hope so as I just bought a pricey book with MCS cut out...but it is one of the books I had to have. Time will tale...but I will likely be dead when it comes time for the re-sale so....F...it.
They're definitely undervalued. Comic book collectors are the only people I've ever seen that undervakue restored like this. EVERY book will need to be restored at some point. It doesn't take away from it being an original.
Yeah I agree that eventually everything is going to need to be restored in some kind of way...I have to imagine that restoration will eventually become accepted.
Just like everyone has accepted that slabbing leads to overpricing for the rest of the market and that CGC have way too much influence than is good.
I think the only way you can enter some of the keys like X-men 1 these days is via restored books
I was looking at an ff48 6.0 purple label and didn’t pull the trigger before it was revised to twice the price....I’m starting to think I’m getting priced out of that book, just weeks too late cos I have cash on hand
Happy I at least have 49 and 50 already, paid 80 and 40 respectively...
Controversial opinion...I think FF 49 > FF48 ....having silver surfer on the cover is such a huge part, and this is coming from someone whose top two favorite character is Silver Surfer :P
So, my thoughts, but not popular. Time, material, equipment, skill, and results have value. I could see paying decently higher for low grade restored to a higher looking grade over the raw low grade. Hell, if I ever get good at it, I may restore stuff and slab it up with grader notes. Wouldn’t be surprised if stuff like that could skyrocket in value over time.
I don't think there is anything wrong with this. Comics were meant to be read and in the process things will clipped and cut by the reader if they don't understand the value of collecting. Once it is enshrined in that plastic tomb what does it matter you can't read the book anymore and the page that is missing or cut is unimportant. I am not a fan of grading comics and have always loved Raw better. You can protect raw books quite well with the ability to open them again and read.
Totally agree, well said.
I just got a incredible hulk #3 i think looks great and has a green label
Nice congrats!!
If I can't afford a book that has not been restored then I don't need it bad enough. If a book is not complete then I don't need it bad enough. Green labels are more honest at least than purple labels but purple labels are just pure greed imo.
Yeah I can respect that approach for sure. Its interesting that a lot of people agree that Green labels are > then restored - for transparency.
Old magic the gathering cards that are inked (usually on black borders) reduce your card to damaged, lowering value by over 50%. I’ll never buy restored personally walks to close to counterfeits or manipulation. Also will never buy missing value stamp, also won’t buy missing cover, tapes cover etc. I’d rather just buy a lower grade complete copy if it was about financials. Most collectors are completionists to some degree. This arguement for restored books goes back to the 1980s. There’s a line drawn- why not just buy counterfeits? Why not just buy reprints? Everyone draws the line to their own preference. Each their own
For sure to each their own. I understand why people wouldn't want it.
I bought a godzilla issue 1 qualified at 9.2 on ebay thinking it was a universal. Is it worth anything?
No i disagree if new collectors feel okay that not having a complete book un touched or modified should have no more value than a book that is modified or just because cover looks great than the hobby is negatively affected. Imo a purple or green label is what it is, and for a collector to say they own one. And affects the rarity of a comic being intact all these years and the value applied. A key is a key but a modified or restored anythong is still modified or restored .
And its not that a restored cant look great but the fact is anything old can be made to look better now true vintage have that distinct look and legacy .
Why is it if a book is uncomplete it will be a point .5 blue label... But I've seen incomplete books above a point 5 with a qualifying purple label how do you get the difference do you ask CGC.
Oh I think you are mistaken. Restoration will always effect a price. You will pat less for a restored old car over an all original car. Also might want to talk to some antique hunters. Restoration or cleaning always lowers the price and value.
I think you should have picked differed hobbies to compare comics to. paintings there is only one of each one. but who does the restoration will determine the price. and classic cars there are not alot of each one as well, but original running cars to sell more then restored cars. i think a better comparison is the card and coin industry. restoration is perceived the same way.
for older collectors color touch is looked on poorly because it was not "restoration" dealers were doing it to cover up colour breaks to get more money. alot happened in the 80s and early 90s. there are alot of different types of restoration and each one is looked at differently that's why cgc recognizes them with different letters. each collector will have to determine what they will want in their collection. but at least when it's graded you know what your getting.
I am sure every collector would be upset when they send a book to cgc and want a blue label and it comes back green or purple. so untill that changes I am sure they will always go for less.
I my self won't buy any purple or green labels for common book like the 2 examples in the video
1 has 14000 graded and the other 4000. but their are some book's I will one golden age book I am looking for their is believed to be less then 200 copies so I don't really have alot of options to choose from.
Thanks for the insight. I agree they're not perfect examples, but I do wonder if people will be more open minded to these lables in the future. Or imagine if CGC opened a "professional restoration" department...seems like people would buy into that.
they already do restoration as well as restoration removal. ccs is their company. but they do more conservation because it can be very expensive to seal rips and ad missing peices. think cgc should add a new label to the "c' category of restoration because some guy taking a marker to the front of the book is really not restoration and that is what c-1 means for their slight colour touch designation
How does one find a good and reputable comic presser or restoration expert?
To add that one still gets blue....
wow really? I wonder how.
By any chance, do you know how long those graded slabs last or have to regrade them at certain period?
Hmm, I don't actually know, I would hope they last for atleast 10-20 years?
Just passed on a green label and I regret it.
Next one :)
By the way eventually all comics must be restored at some point or collapse into raw pulp
Another great point.
So glad you did a video on this. I do not understand at all the stigma for the purple label. Green I can understand because it usually means something is missing from the comic. But I buy restored comics without any hesitation if it's a well done restoration. We restore cars and they're worth more money, we restore houses and they're worth more money ( how many TV shows are there?), famous painting are restored on a regular basis, even the Sistine Chapel has been restored. Does that mean it's now less valuable? Not at all! I think eventually the comic community will come around on restorations and I'm going to get all the good deals I can while others still thumb their nose up at them. I would much rather have a purple 8.5 or 9.0 than a blue 6.5 or 7.0. And of course the quality of the restoration matters, but CGC has made that easy with their alphanumeric restore codes.
Yeah I totally agree with you. I'm def becoming more opened to the idea...I don't even mind green because atleast there is the transparency of what is missing.
Yeah you're right, it's silly.
hehe :P
I think it’s absurd to value them way lower - at least for minor restoration. Why pay more for a crap looking book than a better looking book? Silly.
Less so than non restored CGC, which are vastly overpriced.
heh yeah
Great topic. But if you're concerned about values, it's condition, condition, condition. Plain fact. You're better off being disciplined and saving up for a long time to get a nicely graded copy than buying restored or incomplete copies. On the other hand, if it's not about investing, different story.
Yeah that's true...seems like its case by case depending on what book you come across.
Bought. Cap. 107. For $200. Found. Was. Trimmed. Only. Worth. $50
Should be worth $170 IMHO...don't know why resto takes it down that much.
This is something you will never convince people of. No matter what most people do not want purple or green labels and investing in them is a bad idea. If it’s for your pc sure go fort it if you don’t mind but never invest in it bc people do not want them for the most part
That's true, I don't plan on convincing anyone...but thinking for myself for the PC :D
I disagree when it comes to big, expensive keys. I think money is going to pour into this market in the next few years and the gap in price will close simply due to demand and astronomical prices. Look at recent Batman 1 sales of 0.5s that are just shy of garbage. High grade restored AF 15, Batman 1, Superman 1 are all five figures now. 70K for a restored AF15? wow...