Accelerate Faster By Changing How You Sharpen Your Skates
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2024
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Welcome to another episode of Hockey Talk with John Swanson! In this video, in this video we dive into how to sharpen your skates to improve acceleration while reducing risk of injury. - Фільми й анімація
I discovered the longer radius and shallower hollow years ago which has allowed me to still be competitive well into my 60's. On top of that I still use my old school Graf 705's that have plenty of ankle flex which allows me to dig my edges. I start with a 5/8 hollow but go an entire season without sharpening and so it eventually gets to at least 1 inch or more. Even though I'm at least 20 years older than the next guy I can still keep up and I attribute that to a long radius, shallow hollow and plenty of ankle flex.
Would you mind sharing how long a radius are you using? Thanks!
And here’s me thinking I was skating wrong because I used to glide like that and preferred “duller” skates. Always skated and stopped better a few months after getting my skates sharpened at 1/2 or 3/8
The vid is saying to cut less sharp than 1/2 so 3/8 is bad
dooder is saying that he would stop better after a couple of months when his skates were dull useing 3/8 - 1/2 inch😂💯
@@toddwolfe5659 that must been lots of stopping then
been skating on 3/8 and 1/2 for 15+ years.. I’m currently trying to get used to 5/8.. it’s tough to learn something new but you get used to it and it feels so much better. 1/2 or sharper makes it feel like you’re stuck in mud compared to 5/8 or 3/4
I use 3/4 fire on the flare blades. 1 1/8" is nice on the flare blade as well but i'd love if Sparx came out with a fire ring that had less of a hollow than the 3/4 fire!!! Maybe like a 7/8" fire or 1" fire!!!
I'm an average adult mid-career beer leaguer, I went from 1/2" to 3/4" and it's made a noticeable difference in my glide and speed. I really like that you can "slide stop" also, easier on the body also.
Agree
I skate on a 1” sparx hollow. I’m 49 years old and have had hip problems for around 20 years on and off. After playing 17 minute stop clock periods with a shot bench of 9 or less skaters I can get back on the ice and play a second game and actually feel better the second game.
I went from a 9/16'' to a 1'' hollow. I watched your video and thought no way! Then you said to give a try before commenting. Well, here we are. First I went from 9/16 to 5/8 and didn't feel much of a difference. Then I jumped to 3/4 and liked the speed bump. I played about 4-6 games with it and then wanted to try push it further so I went to 1'' and have been loving it. Most of the guys at the pro shop thought I was nuts! All except one and he said I was the only one who knew about how skates work. Little did he know, I just learned it! I have so much more speed now and my hips are much happier. I've noticed how open they feel after games without any tightness.
I'm at a point where I don't know if I want to try 1 1/8 or try a 3/4 flat bottom V. I only have one pair of steel so going back and forth is very inconvenient. I'm a big fan of the 1'' but wish I was able turn tighter at times. One thing I love about the shallower hollow is that I'm better able to access my outer edge for punch turns and such (even though I'm not very good at them yet). I'm considering buying a Sparx so I want to nail down my preference first so I don't have to get a bunch of rings that never end up getting used.
I'm currently transitioning my 8 year old son to a shallower hollow. I was going to try cold turkey and go 3/4 for him but the guy at the pro shop convinced me it was better to slowly transition so I've been doing 1/16 increments with each sharpening. I do it before a stick time so he doesn't go into a game without having a session or two feeling it out first. We started at 1/2 and are at 5/8 currently. I've been noticing more speed from him as well.
Thanks for the insight!
Been noticing that Im just generally faster, more agile, and less fatigued when my skates get duller. Really interesting video. Definitely going to keep this up but so far its a pretty big difference. Thanks man!
Brilliant! I used a 1" hollow for a long time and found that I could perform better and with no discomfort. I'm using FLAIR blades right now and they have a 1/2" equivalent hollow. Recently I've noticed discomfort in my right hip and a bit of tenderness in my groin. I'm super glad that I watched this video and will get back to 1". I before I do that, I will check out 3/4". Thanks a ton for the fantastic advice!
Great video, Jon! I play beer league now and was playing around with my hollow when I got a Sparx machine. I fell in love with an ROH 1-1/4"; the extra slide has unlocked so much in my game. I have my 9-year-old daughter on 5/8" and sometimes 3/4".
Good stuff!
I am lucky to have a 3 head retail Blademaster in my garage. I probably do a couple dozen guys around my neighborhood. I have been moving all of them to 9/16 and flatter. Most guys have no clue unless you tell them. When the ice is soft it makes even more of a difference. ✌🏽✌🏽
Awesome video! Thanks Coach, this question and not knowing had been driving me crazy!
Glad to help!
9/16" with a 9' radius is my sweet spot. I was at 1/2" for 40 years until about a year ago.
I'm 47, 6'1", 225# been on 5/8" forever. I skate every day. A couple of months ago I went to 9/16" just to see how it worked, no big deal. Last week I went to 1/2" to experiment, see what would happen. It's noticeably slower, less glide, like drag brakes, and digs in too hard, too quickly before the skate is leaned over. Now, it's time to experiment the other way, 3/4", 7/8", 1". I'm pretty sure I know where this going. Everything you said makes sense.
Appreciate you taking the time to watch!
Great video and good info. I think a lot of players get locked into 1/2 because a) that's what everyone says to use, and b) they start thinking they need it to feel stable on the ice. The reality is that, in a way, being stable is slower and instability can be faster ... similar to how they make fighter aircraft aerodynamically unstable (corrected by Fly by Wire systems) because it makes them quicker to maneuver.
I've moved from a 1/2 to a 5/8 and I moved to a 11/16 when I added the Zuperior M profile ... I plan to move to a 3/4 to try it. It's interesting that, when I take my skates to be sharpened and I tell them 11/16 ... they usually look at me and say something to the effect of "you must be a really good skater". No ... I am just an overweight beer leaguer who presses into the ice. 😄
I have a question - I am transitioning my 7 y/o to 3/4” fire (currently at 5/8” fire). Excited about the potential. I also have a 2 year old that will be starting to skate this summer - what radius should I start him at for learn to skate - love the videos! Please keep them coming!
He’s spot on. I played pro in Sweden in 06-07 they were doing this then. Very odd the first couple times on the ice but once you’re used to it, no question
Love it
Hi, my son is on a 3/4 fire , he switched between that and 1 “ standard, likes both. Which one would you recommend he is 9 years old and weighs about 70 pounds.
Moved my son’s skates to 3/4 today. From 1/2. He’s a AA player but leg fatigue and speed has been alittle noticeable off this spring. Gonna give it a shot. Hopefully can move him to a 1” by summer.
Yes I always thought this to be true, especially with the way you should be pushing out more to the side and the angle you have your ankle at to stop as usual you really don’t need massive bite with your blades
how do you tell the sharpening guy what you want? for hallow and radius?
Does ice condition not come into play as well? Of course some rinks have softer or harder ice so wouldnt the hollow become a fsctor. I always skated on 3/4¨ hollow but found at rinks where the ice was harder I seemed to slip a little when transcending from skating backwards to forward thus losing a step....
This was helpful thank you! The reason I hate getting my skates sharpened is for this very reason, my stops are too sticky, it's like I'm learning from scratch. I've been going with the standard 1/2 that most places on default, had no idea the pros go flatter.
Pros go much, much flatter
This is great going to try this with my 8 year old it’s his first year in hockey and just found out about different skate hollows before finding this gem thanks for the info
Good luck!
This is amazing. I played competitive hockey from 8-18 years old and really knew nothing about my blades. Lol
My 8 (almost 9) year old son switched from a 1/2" to 5/8" to 5/8" FBV. I use the 5/8" Sparx Fire. Made a huge difference. Think I should go to the 3/4 Fire like you suggested?
Thanks for the tips. Would you say there’s a certain profile best suited for this shallower hollow?
I think profiles are very different and not a one size fits all. Depends on if you are doing a traditional, pro sharp or Cag one
I have a Sparx at home and tried my 10 year old on 5/8 radius and he loved it. He still finds them a bit too sharp when I sharpen them fresh. Do you think trying a 3/4” would be good for him? He’s a great skater and is close to 100 lbs. I changed mine from 1/2 that I’ve always used to 5/8 and noticed a huge improvement and much less effort. I’m good on my edges and oddly I found they had the same if not more bite which surprised me
It certainly is an interesting concept though I think is better suited when couple with something like a CAG 1 profile which gives you a little more surface contact. It's tough for smaller kids playing contact hockey if they have to get even lower to battle taller kids. It most certainly has drawbacks going with a shallow hollow but for some, I'm sure the advantages outweigh the negatives.
In the works!
I moved my 40 lb 6 year old to 5/8” ROH last fall and noticed an improvement in both his speed and stopping (less rigid so less falls). I assume jumping from a 5/8” to a 3/4” Fire is a huge difference and don’t want to mess him up or discourage him, what would you suggest as the next step moving from a 5/8” ROH? Is the 11/16” too small a difference to be worth buying the $70 ring?
Very interesting. I did A Lot of research on this topic and concluded that the deeper the hollow the harder it is to skate. My son when he was 10 was in 3/8. I felt like he was quick in turns but was tiring out. About 1.5 years ago I bought a Sparx and moved him to 1/2 Fire. He loved it. He is now almost 13 and 115 lbs. he is a AAA high prospect. I think, after watching this video that he may do better with a 3/4 or a 5/8 Fire. I have a 5/8 Fire ring. What do you think? His current blades are on its last legs and will need replacement and/or new skates. I could try a new hollow before replacing. I also noticed that he didn’t want me to sharpen his skates every 4 hours. They became more dull and he finally asked me to sharpen them after about 8 hours of intense ice time. It stands to logic that the more dull the edges became the more slide and glide he had. I have also noticed that both he and his teammates seem to tire out. Maybe because of using the wrong hollow. Fantastic video. Thank you for sharing!
I think the goal should be continue to progress them to a shallower hallow overtime. Ultimate they will find what they like. After 30 years I love how the 3/4 feels. Trying to skate on 3/8 almost feels to sharp and dangerous in a way.
@@SwansonX7Hockey great. I asked him and he said likes the 1/2 fire but is willing to try a shallower hollow. We will see how things go. No doubt moving to the flat bottom hollow was crucial. Sparx version is fantastic as it is consistent and durable since the “fangs” or edges are thicker.
Another thing most people don’t know, a speed skater blade it flat, no hollow. So obviously the flatter the faster.
Thanks for the great content ! Would you recommend Sparx for casual players as well ?
considering I play 3 times a week with friends that would chip in I feel like it could pay off but I'm not sure how user friendly it is and fear I'll just do the worst sharpening job lol
*Initially I got lost in the sizes of rings and put off the purchase, having your recommendations for the 3\4 definitely helps though.
It's fairly user friendly. You would have to do the math on drive time. I think that is the biggest benefit of owning one.
Do you have the hard data on the injury reduction? I would like to look it over and present it.
I switched my 8 and 6yr olds to 7/8 last summer - took about half a practice for them to get used to it… since then I moved them back to 3/4 because the shop we go to no longer has a 7/8 wheel. I’m wondering on the flat bottoms - any issues if we would find ourselves out of town needing sharpening and having to go back to a standard cut? We might just get our own machine…
I really enjoy having my own sparx. It travels with me otherwise I bring an extra set of blades.
However if you were out of town and had to use it, I don't think it's a huge problem so being as the hollow is fairly similar. We were on the road once and I have to go 5/8 for my daughter and she never noticed.
Good Stuff...What's your take on Skate Profiling?
Great video, great info. I started playing (ice) 4 years ago at age 53. I have been injured for the majority of the last 1.5 years but I try to get on the ice when possible to keep my skates on the ice without too much disconnect. I do skate weekly at roller hockey practice where I coach. Do you think that even at my age it would be a benefit for me to jump up to 3/4? I am currently skating on 1/2 Fire. Started thinking about 5/8 (since I already have the grinding ring) and purchase the 5/8 Fire if I felt good on 5/8. I’d gladly buy the 3/4 or 3/4 Fire ring if you feel that I would benefit. Thanks in advance
I switched at 38 and love it, worth a try.
We always recommend 5/8" ROH or flatter to our customers, and I skate at 7/8" ROH. Note that not all sharpeners square their edges the same way, so when you try a flatter ROH, it's also essential to make sure your edges are perfectly square so you have an even bite angle on your inside and outside edges or your experience could be disappointing. But when done correctly by a sound tech, it's like dancing on ice instead of marching through snow.
Love the info!
Great video, really informative! I always got 1/2” then worked up to 3/4”. The guy at the pro shop looked at me like I was crazy when I asked for 3/4”. Do you think I should work up to 1”? I weigh about 220lbs currently.
I think it’s something to try. I know a lot of my older players like it. I personally skate at 3/4.
In the winter in NYC i use a 1/2 inch and in the soft summer ice a 3/4. When on hard ice, the problem i have with 3/4 as a D man is i slide too much when being pushed in the corner and in front of the net andI cant dig into the ice to hold my ground against being pushed or checked. Your thoughts?
@@greggf6831 this makes perfect sense. I worked my way up to 3/4.. mind u i only weigh 170. It was great for doing punch turns and the slight difference in glide. However, at my weight i would notice i wasnt getting enough grip with my starts, turns, stops, and when trying to battle for position.
I went down to 7/16 because thats what the canadian tire tech only had to offer lol. Was great for everything the 3/4 lacked but i couldnt punch turn or slow myself with the outside edge as comfortably, so went back up to 9/16.
What u said about the ice is probably just as big a factor aa weight and personal feel.
My suggestion is to try out different rohs... to where u can do all of the skating abilities u would routinely use in a game at the highest level without having any of those abilities noticeabley drop off.. ?
Does this apply for beer leaguers as well? I just got back into playing 3 years ago. And I've been going with 1/2 just because I figured that was standard and was a good starting point until improve my skating ability. Now I feel like my skating skills are at a point to where I can start playing with the sharpness of the blade a little.
I’d def give it a try. It will feel weird at first.
In sweden where i play, the majority of beer leaguers use 3/4 to 1"
How does weight of the player factor in?
Yes yes yes. I've been preaching this in beer League. Especially for those of us on the heavier side.
Right on!
Does a players weight impact the radius choice? My son is 60lbs and currently uses 1/2 fire. He has been asking to try 5/8 which I was planning on doing after playoffs. However, after watching this vid I’m wondering if I should just go to 3/4 fire. TIA
I would give it a try. My youngest players are 50lbs on 3/4 and they do great
What FBV sharpen is the equivalent for 3/4"? 90/75?
Currently my 10 year old (100 lbs) has been using 90/1 FBV for a few months (but it's not set in stone... Haha), and am willing to give 3/4" a try if it gives him less resistance. Good videos btw!
Honestly anytime I do FBV I just say it as the traditional hollow and then they convert it over for me.
For an 8 year old used to 5/8, is there any benefit to going stepwise to 11/16 then 3/4 or better to just go straight to 3/4?
Thanks for the video!
I would just go to the 3/4
@@SwansonX7Hockey thank you!
I like skating on a large hollow 1 inch or more , unforntunately its extremely dangerous during game play cause it's so unstable . you get pushed so easily
Out of curiosity, would you make the same recommendation for kids (10u) skates as well? My son started in 8u and runs a standard 1/2". He recently moved up to 10u and Ive been researching the skate sharpening options that will best help him. TY
Yep. Both of my U8s skate on that
@@SwansonX7Hockey Awesome. Thank You!
Welcome.
@@SwansonX7Hockeyjust to clarify your 8U players also skate at 3/4 fire? I’ve got an 8u and 12u player that this might be something beneficial for. I’m very intrigued
After my son had his skate fitting we moved from a 1/2in to 5/8in skate sharpening. Would you still recommend going to 3/4 fire for him. He’s a first year squirt and will start AAA in March after his current season is done. Loved the video. How often should we sharpen skates for squirts?
Dont go for the fire its for heavyweight people i learned that the hard way when i was younger. go for the normal 3/4
Interesting video, we switched our kids (goalie and forward) to z-channel is that the same as flat bottom? Or thoughts on z channel? They love the glide.
Honestly, I have never heard of it so I can't speak on it
@@SwansonX7Hockey Z-channel is Prosharps version of Fire/flatbottom. Prosharp is owned by Bauer and in my opinion best sharpeners in the game :-)
@crewzta we’re planning on testing Z-channel on our U14’s. Majority are currently running 1” (25mm). If we go Z-channel we will try slightly flatter. We’re in Sweden where its common to go shallow from an early age.
I use a 1 inch sharpen. Love it. The glide is great and it teaches to not cheat on your turns or else you'll wipe out.
Okay I’ll try
I started at 8 years old in 1980, and never knew there were options until I was an adult. We would just drop our skates off and say, "I need them sharpened..." Now, as an adult, I've gone less and less sharp over the years. Also, unless I need it, I don't sharpen them very often.
What if my 14 yr olds have a Zuperior S profile on the blade? What do you recommend?
I’d start at 3/4 and work to an inch.
My son is 12 almost 13 in a 9/16 cut and weighs about 90+ pounds and is the fastest one on his team and is kind of picky what would you recommend?
I’d work them up to 3/4. My oldest is picky and in that case I just adjust it and tell them later.
Now what's your reasoning for going 3/4 fire rather than plainn3/4 hollow? I was under the impression that the fire loses edges way faster...
He put my whole thought process into words 😂
Love it!!!
what do you suggest for younger players? like 8-10 years old?
This. My kids are 8 and 9 right now.
I have noticed when watching pro hockey ( or any high level hockey) the large amount of snow they can kick up when they make a quick stop. Is this because of the hollow they use?
Ice conditions, speed and them stopping quickly. NHL ice conditions are extremely better than 95% of ice rinks as well.
Some 30÷ years ago I, learned to sharpen skates from an old figure skating coach. After he sharpened the figure skates, he'd run the edge stone once along the sharpened edge so the figure skaters would not catch an edge. I learned a lot from that. After sharpening literally hundreds of rental and private skates, I found that a smaller hollow lasts longer, skates faster, and stops just as well as deep hollows. Unless you're playing on ice that is less than 20 degrees where it is very hard, the sharper edge does not really help. Most rinks run the ice about 25, 26 degrees for all around usability for recreational, hockey and figure skaters. Running a deep hollow slows you down and takes a lot mlre energy. Figure skaters run a pretty flat hollow for lots of reasons, speed being one. Speed skaters actually run a flat blade for speed since they are always pushing out and on an edge. I highly recommend having a 3/4" hollow, or even less if the ice is soft( and some rinks run 28 degrees or even warmer ice depending on their circumstances)
Love it!
would you advice to use 3/4 fire for 5 yo?
I think go for it. It will teach them how to use their edges correctly
Recommendation for goalies?
Def not a goalie. I believe our goalies go a bit sharper but I would have to ask our goalie coach as that is not my speciality.
So what happens when you have a ton of snow on the ice late in periods?
In what regard?
What about for heavier skaters. Could you potentially go even less bite?
Yes for sure.
Do I need to sharpen my son’s skate more often at a 3/4 ?
No, yes, maybe.
First depends on the quality of the steel.
However I find a shallow hollow doesn’t need to be sharpened as often because the edges don’t get beat up as easily.
I often will just do 1 or 2 passes on the sparx to clean the edge after every 3-4 skates.
@@SwansonX7Hockey do you recommend 3/4 hollow or Sparx Fire for 8-12yr olds switching from 1/2
Not to mention knee injuries with 3/8
Yep
5/8 is ideal for young skaters to also teach edges. It teaches ankle bend to grip ice. I disagree with going flatter with lighter players in full contact hockey tho. At 130 lbs my son cannot go flatter than 5/8 without having the needed stability of full contact AA hockey. I skate with that same hollow at 200 lbs for comparison. We switched from 1/2 to 5/8 to glide on top of ice not in the ice.
This video is coming directly from the USA Olympic skating coach. It def isn’t just a random opinion. You are welcome to do what you feel is best. I just wanted to share the message.
I cut mine 16/18.
What about an 11 year old player weighing 85 lbs. Does the same theory apply regardless of weight?
Yes. I have my 8 and 9 year old in them.
I was just going to ask this. After watching the last video where John mentioned a 3/4 i moved my 6 yr old to 5/8s because my buddy had the stone. I didn’t tell my son and he didn’t seem to even notice. I recently bought a Sparx myself and have him in a 5/8 fire. I then started doing my skates with it as well. At first it felt super weird but I’m getting used to it. I might buy a 3/4 fire here for spring hockey. That said no way I could rock that flat of a hollow on my goalie skates.
I play defense i want more grip not apeed
You lost me at Sparks! Tell me how many pros use a sparks machine what a joke. I go to shops today they are taught now not to adjust the holders on table top units. People suck at skating because people don't know what their dping.i instantly had groin issues with flat bottom v too.
Lots of pros actually use their machine. "Used by more than 25 NHL teams, the Sparx Sharpener produces professional results with ease."
I've been using 3/8 for years and will try 3/4 on your recommendation. I am very fast and very shifty. Will I lose a lot of ability to do sharp fast twist and turns with 3/4?
It will take some adjustment your lean angle will definitely have to change. Leg leverage will also change. Powering in and out of cross overs and punch turns will have to be more explosive. Shallower hollow allows more glide straight line skating become more efficient. Less drag because of less dig. @@JelenOutDoors
The machine doesn't know a sharp skate if it bit it in the ass. Ive seen so many sparks sharpened skates so screwed up. Messes up the profile and on one skate added a toe pick bump to the tip of the skate. On a table top sharpener you dont have to drop 50 dollars on a wheel you don't like you adjust the radius of the stone and try it out. I can dial in my radius to the 1/32 of an inch. Does Sparks sharpen skates sure it doesn't do a "great" job. Maybe Sparks will get you the Sparks 2 when it comes out for free if you keep harping on how "great" they are. @@SwansonX7Hockey