STIHL M-TRONIC CHAINSAW HAS NO CARBURETOR ADJUST, WILL IT "RESET" TO REGULATE FUEL CORRECTLY?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 вер 2021
- If you found this video helpful, please LIKE and SUBSCRIBE!! Today we are going to try and "reset" a Stihl MS-261C with no carburetor adjustments. It starts and runs, but is not getting enough fuel. The saw has been fully serviced and checked for all other issues and everything seems to be in working order. Unfortunately without an adjustment to give it a little more fuel on the top end, my customer will have to pay a Stihl Dealer to finish the service with their fancy dancy computer program..... Be aware! These M-Tronic devices are used on Stihl Chainsaws and brush cutters. Fortunately Echo has not put these on their outdoor power equipment.
Find my Amazon Wish List here!
www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls... - Навчання та стиль
Thanks for Watching! Find a link to all of my "Must Have", Favorite Tools HERE!! www.amazon.com/shop/chickanic?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_aipsfshop_aipsfchickanic_9ERPFPBNGQ924P8NS63B
Good video. I am a Certified Stihl Technician I work for a Stihl dealership not for Stihl. The M tronic system generally works as intended. The main issue that we see with them is the solenoid that that is located on the carburetor. The valves leak and cause a rich condition where the system is no longer able to reduce the amount of fuel going to the engine. This usually causes a hard to hot restart, no idle or rough idle fault. Fine debris from the fuel gets ground up in the valve and cause them to leak.There have been several updates to the solenoid valves and the fuel filters for this issue. The m-tronic system can be checked for correct function by running the saw in the bottom "start" or triangle position. With the engine warmed up the saw should run continually in the starting position. If the engine will not continue to run in the start position then there is a fault with either the engine or the m-tronic system and further diagnostics and repairs will be required. sometimes issues get blamed on the Mtronic but in fact the engine itself has an air leak or some other issue going on. Its still more or less a standard two stroke engine. If you would like I can send you a more detailed email on how the system works. The MDG1 diagnostic tool and Stihl Diagnostics Software are publicly accessible and can be purchased through a Stihl dealer. Stihl will warranty the M-tronic system for two years under an emissions warranty that is required by law. Additionally most Stihl dealers and Stihl distributors will work with customers to get issues like this resolved even covering repairs on units that are out of warranty. This type of warranty is handled on a case by case basses often falls under the dealer and distributors discretion. Usually if you are hospitable with your dealer they will take care of you. A little kindness goes a long way. Overall Im not against the M-tronic system. It just takes a little know how to troubleshoot. Its not perfect but Stihl and all manufactures are under pressure form the governments that the sell there products in to meet ever tighter emissions standards. Just look at what has happened to the auto and heavy diesel industry its the same thing.
I have had a starting problem with my expensive, heavy duty Stihl brush cutter head. It wouldn't start "cold"when left in the NC summer heat. And it wouldn't start "hot" either. Wasted lots of time.Just bought it a year ago and had to pay labor to replace carb, which was about $75. I run Jonsered saws and had no problems. I am skeptical about getting a Stihl saw.
@@tomcurran1538 Sorry to hear that. Sometimes the right equipment can be what ever you have the best dealer support for in your area. Stihls warranty is only so post to cover manufacturer defects. There can be exceptions to this and it really comes down to the details each individual work order. The dealer and distributors do have some discretion on the warranty. Stihl instructs the dealers and distributors to do what they can to help the customer. Most dealers are willing to work with you.
Too clever for everyone's own good?
You dam right
You absolutely can not run ethanol fuel in all small gas engines. It destroys the fuel lines and ruined rubber components inside the fuel system. This effect is amplified if you leave your equipment in hot places like a garden shed in the summer.
The reset procedure depends on what version of M-tronic you have. The reset procedure you describe is for the older versions, M2.0 and below.
To check what version you have, you need to look at the CE label. In the upper right corner you should see an "M" with a number next to it, like M2.1 or M3.0, if you can't find an "M" number you probably have an older version.
On newer versions (M2.1 and over) the reset procedure is:
Put the machine in the ▲ Cold start position
Start the machine and run it in the ▲ Cold start position for at least 30 seconds but no more than 60 seconds
Do not touch the throttle or accelerate the saw during this time
Disengage/release the chain brake
Open/squeeze the throttle fully for at least 30 seconds
Engine speed varies noticeably during calibration
As soon as the engine speed drops noticeably, release the throttle back to the idle position
When the engine is back to idle speed, engage the chain brake and switch off
Everything should be calibrated.
I am a Stihl dealer if you bought the saw from me I wouldn't charge anything to adjust it. Even if you didn't buy it from me if it's just a quick adjustment I probably still wouldn't charge. Sometimes I figure a little "free" labor here and there doesn't hurt me and a little customer service and hospitality goes a long way to create loyal repeat customers. I'll end up making the money back in the long run when they return for parts, oil, bars and chains.
We tried to use our MDG-1 today and the data cable was damaged so it wouldn't connect to the saw. You can use the computer to fine tune the saw if you needed but it's not really necessary. I hardly ever use my MDG-1. The reset procedure usually does OK to get back to a standard setting. It will fine tune itself the more you use the saw.
Something else to check if it won't reset and it's just not acting right is the little solenoid on the side of the carb. If it's green replace it. They had issues with those and they've been updated. Newer solenoids are white. The black ones are good too. It's very important to use the CORRECT Stihl brand fuel filter with the M-tronic carbs. The fuel filter that should be in it is black with a white top and orange element. If it's a black filter with a white element it needs to be replaced with the correct one. Don't use the Stens or Oregon, etc.. replacement fuel filters on an M-tronic saw. The bootleg Chinese service kit fuel filter, even if it is orange, will not work either. Ask me how I know... It took a min to figure that one out because they look like a Stihl filter. However, side by side you can see and feel the difference in quality between the cheap Chinese parts the customer bought and installed and the genuine Stihl service parts.
If the engine is good, the solenoid is good, and the fuel line and fuel filter are all good and correct it may be the ignition module, even if the saw does "run". The electronics that control the solenoid are built into the ignition module.
1 year late edit: Something else to check if everything else is good (engine, solenoid, fuel line, fuel filter) You might replace the wire harness before trying to replace the ignition module. You could be getting a weird grounding issue.
Will running the saw wide open out of the cut/no resistance not cause issues?
@@rossjones5922 The 30 seconds WOT it takes to reset the saw won't hurt anything. If you hold it pegged for over a min you could cause damage to the saw.
Just an FYI... Running a blower without the bottom tube is the same thing as running a saw without a load and can cause the same damage..
BINGO , My MS362 is rock solid, the ONLY time it runs bad is every year or two the little black selonid will go bad.... Another coming issue with the MS 362 is the wire harness will short out as per West Coast Muscle Saw shop owners long time experience
Thank you
TruthHurts , I have one on the table , MS441C ,guy was cutting and it quit and it will not start .it gets gas but hasn't got spark unless you turn it over really fast and then it's a small blue spark , verily see able. Flywheel key is ok, new plug , wires all look good . Any suggestions , I have no coil checking equipment.?
Saw arrived yesterday ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxfQm1wmg0ItKDLavxj1nXtQY9HP7EF504 and today I cut about 3/4 cord of wood with it. Make sure you get an extension chord that is at least 12 gauge wire, minimum. This is my first electric in about 10 years, and things sure have improved. The self-sharpener works great, and it just kept cutting through some pretty decent logs. Wear your eye protection, and ear protection. Excellent saw.
I'm scared of computers,that's why I stay with "old school",and I can still work on all of my own saws. :)
Vintage is the way to go love em
@@razoredgesaws4202 i run the new ol school echos 490 501 63 an 7310and recentl stumble up on late 70s early 80s 400evl n aliitle 30$ in parts its up to par startd quikly probly wont use it much tho finish is 95% too it look runns great **dont know i go t 63 meanto sy 620 the mighty 620 at that
Just put top ends on 038 super and 036 pro, now onto 2 026 big bores but have to split the cases for bearings on those and should be good for another 8-10 years and yes I carry a tiny screw driver in my pocket while in the woods.
As you reply using a computer almost none of us understand and definitely couldn't adjust. Some humor meant but realistically all of our cars are becoming black boxes and run more reliably than they did historically. A PITA to fix when they do break but dang they run well in general.
@@jasonjordan9598 ,it was meant as humor,but the newest vehicle I own is a 2005. My other vehicles are 1990's models that I keep running,and their computers are very primitive .
You can all thank the EPA for electronic "no tamper" carbs.
We run over 30 saws with 3 crews.........when MTronic is working properly, it is awesome.
BUT, it can never be better than a fine tuned saw by an operator who knows what he is doing. We have had several MTronic saws fail in the last few years. Solenoid on the carb is the usual culprit and occasionally a bad coil..... we've converted a few back from MTronic to old type by retrofitting the Carb, Coil, and flywheel from the non MTronic version. I've done several MS201Ts and MS261C-M and a MS462 Also most of you don't realize that there are a few models that are sold to 3rd world countries without MTronic but with MTronic when shipped to north america.
Personally I think of these new versions as Moronic ............when you are out on a job and hours from a dealer and your saws decides to stop idling or dropping rpm when full throttle.
Turn around and head to back to town? No, no..........pull out the backup saw , usually and old MAC10-10 or Husky 372 and keep on cutting......while the $1200 new saw sits their looking all shiny and new........
So just remember to thank the EPA for not regulating something that makes sense.
(like aircraft, ground 1 plane and you, and thousands of others, can run your old saw for a lifetime and more)....make the average joe suffer. Thats what governments do best.
Preach it! That is why I am scared to show carb adjustment videos, because they can fine me $3,500. Thanks for watching!
@@Chickanic I think I'll stay away from Stihl. I have about 39 chainsaws and somewhere around 34 are McCulloch's dating from an old 5-49 2 man saw around 1949-1952 and the rest from 1968 to 1998 when McCulloch was sold by Black & Decker. Only one McCulloch is from the Taiwan era owned by Seng Fen. My 2 newest saws are a 2012 Jonsered CS2166 (X-Torq era) and a 2020 Echo CS355T that's been muffler modded, timing advanced and ported by Jereme Bell AKA Bellhopper on UA-cam.
John Lincicum- what’s your opinion on those newer McCullochs? I recently got one from 1995 and it all seems very cheaply made to me.
@@johnlincicum6390 Even the B&D era was not great for Mcculloch, Jen Feng eventually made an easy to use and repair product for the homeowner market....but never a pro saw. Fortunately the old Pioneers, Partners and Poulan Pros took up the slack and Electrolux had them making some really heavy duty models.
I'm still running them today along with some Terry Homelites made here in Canada. I prefer the torque over rpm anyways. Plus on many of the older saws you can block the governor if you want to pull more revs....todays synthentic oils allow the old torque machines to wind up to 11000 rpm or more. The other baddies are like what Buckin' is running....big Dolmars and the big old Oleo-Macs (not related to Mcculloch) pack a punch too.
@@Chickanic Fun fact :
The old style chainsaw puts out about 40lbs of CO2 per day. On average, a plane produces a little over 53 pounds of carbon dioxide (CO2) per mile. Think about that...everyone. Where are you flying to? Is it really worth it? So why doesn't the EPA reduce those thousands of flights for thousands of mile per day.? Who pays?
Just a couple things to say.
First of all, u would want to put at least some cutting time on your brand new spark plug before judging the tuning by its colour, this is gonna give you the most realistic response. By only running the saw on fast idle (i'll talk about that later) and at WOT it will eventually give u the same result, but then saw would need more time running to give you a realistic outcome on the spark plug's colour than making a couple cuts in the wood.
The other thing is something i noticed in the reset procedure itself: the cold start procedure was right, and the reset procedure for that mtronic version i guess. Here's the deal: when put on fast idle, the chain actually IS supposed to run, even a lil bit, because the saw is set on a "fast" idle; that's why u're supposed to disengage the chain brake. Depending on which brand and model of saw u have, the fast idle could be set at higher or lower rpm, and this is gonna affect how fast the chain spins when on fast idle mode. On this 261 it seems that the fast idle is set relatively low, so the chain is not spinning that much. In this case, I would say that the reset procedure actually DID work, becaude after 90 seconds the chain was spinning a lot slower, ergo the engine was running less rpm at the same throttle opening, ergo the carburetor adjusted himself a bit richier. Will it be enough to make the saw run correctly? I don't know, but keep in mind that all of those electronic tuning systems will always tend to lean up a bit ur tuning, this will make the saw respect the EPA emission rules. Basically, less fuel burning and more clean air means less exhaust gases being sent out in the atmosphere. This could also mean that ur mtronic or autotune saw will always be a screaming beast, but eventually it could last less years. That is the controversial point on these systems, and u kinda exposed it in the video, really good job.
Last but not least i saw a thing (and i could be wrong, in that case u'd wanna tell me): you switched the saw from fast idle to normal idle by simply pulling up the switch, and it looked like u were struggling pullin it. It is because that switch is NOT supposed to be pulled up to get into normal running position, the only way to pull it up is revving the saw up (as u did later); by doing it u will disengage the fast idle position, that is held down by the throttle lever itself, and the switch (which has a spring in it) will come up to normal running position by itself. Doing it the way it seems u did may break the fast idle mechanism, which is obviously not good.
100% Correct. I have 9 Stihl saws and 2 Echo 2511T saws. We break in a new saw in less than a week. Both my 400C and 261C kick ass. I have no issues with idle and perform daily filter maintenance to keep them running at peak performance. Customers need to understand that quality fuel and oil with routine maintenance will always provide the best results.
Yeah seemed kind of unnecessary to show the spark plugs color after barely even revving it after the reset. Cut some wood or even let it idle and rev it for a few minutes AT LEAST for there to be any discernible change to the spark plugs color.
To reset the MTron properly you have to let it idle at 35 seconds then full throttle for 35 seconds You will hear the saw engage it will upper and lower its throttle on its own during the sequence there's a lot of misconception .when used properly the saws are very efficient. I'm constantly changing altitudes so I have to constantly retune my saws this feature makes this splendid
That's for newer M-tronic versions. Older versions are reset the way she described.
It's 35sec at idle with chain locked ; then 35sec full throttle with chain UNlocked in ID models 2.1 and higher (mine is a 3.0 model).
P.S. ...the step-2 (triggered high throttle) will kick down when self calibrated within 35-60sec. Shut it down and it is now calinrated.
35 sec, in thee cut.. Full throttle outside the cut will cook a saw up in no time, especially a big commercial unit..
35 seconds WOT with no resistance will fry the saw
I've been running a MS441R C-M for more than 5 years, and it is easily the best chainsaw I've used in my 40+ years of sawing. Starts easier than any saw I've ever used, is always in tune, and has a very flexible powerband. Mine has been ported (cylinder was milled to allow port timing adjustment) and has the squish tightened. I run non-ethanol high octane fuel to maximize the output, and my 441 will absolutely spank a stock 660. Count me as a M-Tronic fan, big time.
*Oh my, chainsaws that spank? That sounds kinky, or are you just trying to sound cool grandpa?*
@@dr.pickle5842 No grandkids that I know of... but my C-M is strong.
@@dr.pickle5842 My point, if there was one, is the M-Tronic will even work well on a modded saw. Mine has been pushed fairly far for a work saw, and it is a dream to operate. A 71cc saw that has the power of a 90+cc saw ain't hard to like, and the ability to start on a cool damp morning and run all day into a hot afternoon, all while remaining in tune, changed my mind about what I want in a chainsaw. I have sold all my manual carb saws except for one sweet little ported Jonsered 2153.
I reckon a lot of these problems are people letting stale old gas sitting in the saw over a long time period, she said it even at the start, if your saws been sitting idle for a long time since you used it last. As far as I can see its a stihl bashing post based on all the Hearted comments given to posters who are opposed to the stihl brand.
Yes, stale ethanol fuel is the enemy of small 2 or 4 stroke engines. I use a 93 octane gas mix with stabilizer in my 2 strokes and straight 93 in the 4 strokes, then drain the tank and start it back up to run it dry after every use. I never let fuel sit in the tank of my saw or string trimmer because it eats the fuel delivery components. Plus the fuel cap is usually vented allowing the ethanol in the fuel to attract moisture into the fuel. It is a pain to follow this procedure but it saves many headaches trying to start a unit with a fouled carb.
I bought some TruFuel to run the these engines occasionally to clean the carbs out, but at $20/gallon it's too expensive to use as every day fuel.
I own a "homeowner" Stihl chainsaw that I purchased in 2017. It was on sale, less than $200. So far hasn't given me any trouble. Seems to me if it did, be cheaper to buy another one if I couldn't get it back running on my own.
I really like your channel. So much useful information that's real handy for most folks. Thank You
well said mate just sling it in landfill and use up some more resources, only people from the olden days and losers bother to learn how to repair things, what's the point?
Great advice, and explaining the down side of the m-tronic stihl feature. I do appreciate your honesty.
Echo has real carbs that you can adjust
I have one M-Tronic saw, an MS201TC that I rebuilt from a junk saw that looked like it had been dropped out of a tree. The innards were fine, and after some reconstructive "plastic" surgery, it was ready to run again. Generally it is easy to start and runs great, but I've noticed that when pushed beyond its intended use as an arborist's saw (when you need to buck some large oak branches and it's the only saw you have at that location), it will cut off at idle after about 30 minutes and will not restart until it cools off. I was suspecting the coil or the M-Tronic system, but after reading some of the comments, I'm going to take a good look at the solenoid.
As for the plug condition reading, the real interest is what's going on at cutting speed at WOT under a cutting load. It would seem to me that a better test would be to buck a log of diameter appropriate for bar length at a normal work pace for about ten minutes, and after the last cut let it idle 30 seconds, then cut it off and pull the plug. Most of the time would have been spent in actual cutting, thereby reflecting the spark plug appearance that would be most accurate and useful.
I bought a stihl ms201t-m several years ago. A piece of junk it’s been long gone. Echo CS355t controls are very similar and it starts and runs. Thanks for a great UA-cam channel.
I LOVE the CS-355T! So much power and very easy to handle.
Hi, if I look up the 261 c-m instrucktion manual, at the stihl page, (this applys to a newer saw) thats not the right way to adjust it. you have to run it, about a minute, to get warm, then shut it off. apply the chain brake, start it in the triangle position, dont touch the throttle, let it run from minimum 30 seconds, no longer than 60 seconds, release the chain brake and give it full throttle for 30 seconds, until the revs decrease, let go off the throttle, and let it idle. now it should be calibrated. It depends of which gen. the m-tronic is.
I use two m-tronic saws, a 201t and a 462, and I have had zero problems, I only use stihl gas. The old carburettet models, I hardly use.
At over $22 a QUART?
@@MountainMetal it’s expensive, that’s for sure, but I don’t get a headache, when using it all day.
When I read these hi tech procedures for computer controlled devices, the old hokey pokey song comes to mind!
Actually did you check the fuel filter, a lot of time simply cleaning the fuel filter can improve performance in these saws.
You will want to run that WOT under load for a min or two at least possibly more to get a good read on that plug. Read it at the base of the porcelain down inside. That sounded right once you reved it up wide open, it certainly did not sound lean after that "Re-set" The only real way to check it is in the wood, but from what I heard it's something I would feel fairly comfortable sending out to a customer.
You are correct. "Hollywood magic" I had my husband go cut with it before I checked the plug. I should had mentioned the heat and smell also, but know most people wouldn't understand what I was talking about. When a saw is running hot you can feel and smell it. Thanks for watching!
Yep. You can’t idle it for 90 seconds and then free rev it for ten more to get a reading. It needs to run hard, buried in wood, for probably a tank of fuel if you want a real read on the plug.
@@Chickanic I figured you had given it a workout after you did that re-set 👍 I agree it's hard to explain on video some of those things we just do that's second nature and have the feel for, like the smell and feel of the saw running hot and lean.
Exactly!
@@patthesoundguy oh you guys are all so astute, we mere humans could never understand any of this. lol 😂
I've been a STIHL dealer for 19 years. The only way to correct the problem is to replace the (H) speed solenoid, that is if the inlet screen is clean and the upper diaphragm is soft. That'll set someone back about $90 bucks, parts and labor, in my shop. The solenoid changes out fairly easy, but after doing that you have to do what's called a "Learn Idle".
1. Start and idle 90 seconds in the start position then blip the throttle and shut off immediately.
2. Start and idle in the run position 60 seconds.
FYI, the only M-Tronix saws that I sell are the M-Tronix only saws. The MS261 comes both ways as do a number of other saws....
Hmmmm i think i will stay with my old "adjustable" carbs in my 2 saws, easy to service myself or at my local shop. Love your work ! 🚜😊
Thanks Greg!
@@Chickanic great videos but you are making a big mistake, the ground strap on the spark plug is not a good indicator of how the engine is running the colors you see on the ground strap are from additives in the fuel and oil and not necessarily the fuel-air mixture you should be looking at the porcelain down in the center of the plug, Also you need to run the engine for a longer amount of time to get an accurate reading especially with a new spark plug.
I got the ms 261 stihl with out the computer junk and never once had a issue. When I do fire fighting I use a husky with the computer and it’s almost impossible to restart after it being warmed up. I’m sticking with the old school carb I can adjust myself! Nice video
Old school, the most dependable tools and methods around.
As someone who worked at a Stihl dealer for 4 years you don't need a computer to do anything with a M-tronic saw. While a computer can tell you hours and do a few checks on the system a reset requires no computer at all. All you have to do is make sure to follow the correct reset procedure when starting the saw. Besides the check valve that performs the carb adjustments they are identical to a normal saw and are no more difficult to work on or unreliable in my experience. In 4 years out of all the burned up saws I saw I only saw one M-tronic saw burned up for any reason other than running straight fuel in it while I saw many conventional saws burned up from improper tuning and lean running.
so what do you do when doing a reset doesn't resolve the problem?
@@jbbolts Solenoid, as has been pointed out in other posts.
Glad I have a 311 that's adjustable. Now that it's broken in, I really like the saw. Starts first pull when warm. Thanks for the video.
I am a stihl fan, I have on hand today 5 saws that I have owned and run for years including a 241 that is m tronic
I have had zero issues
I've had Husqvarna Autotune saws since they came out and have had zero problems so far. I do follow the cold and hot start procedure.
Thanks for this video. I don't have one of these but understand the frustration from the industry adding more and more computers to the mix. When I went to buy a chainsaw years ago, Husqvarna had recently come out with the "e" series, where they just added an "e" onto the end of their old model numbers. The "e" seemed to be some new fangled something that sounds similar to what you are talking about. I researched it quite a bit at the time, decided it was crap, and bought a brand new 440 without the "e" on it. I guess with my next one, I won't have a choice anymore. The world continues to turn. Will just deal with whatever comes the best I can. Thanks for sharing 😊
I have both the 440 and the 441. I can tell you the 441 vibrates a lot less and has a noticeable increase in power. The new 462 is even lighter and more powerful. All are 72 CC saws. I still use my 440 sometimes. But if I need to buck a 20 inch locus the 441 is just faster. I was just using it to cut some big red oak in half so I can actually lift it on the splitter without braking my back.
I've owned a MS 362 for 6 yrs. Cut around 10 cords a year with it. I haven't had a lick of trouble with mine however I always have a clean filter, rec gas,& I run the hp oil a little on the lean ratio. Great video.
mine fried with lite use.
On a 40°f spring day, I had not moved the cooling air diverter off snowflake.
I sensed the saw went lean. My experience and training are not to shut down an over heated unit down abruptly.
The saw chose to quit.
It did not start again with out a fresh ignition coil.
Looking in the exhaust port it was clear the piston was shot. So was the cylinder.
It drank only ethanol free gas and Stihl synthetic oil.
I don't even think about that snow flake untill it is under 10°f now.
I figured it was my fault, Stihl did not offer any help. With OEM parts it has been fine for the last three years.
I could use an 80 or bigger cc saw.
Probably won't be a Stilh.
For one, what chuckel head came up with the fuel and oil caps??
Not only do they mess up, it is near impossible not to drag debris in to the tanks. In the field there is a paint brush dangling from the fuel can.
In the shop air.
Yeah, here is California. Give me H L adjustments! Chris
My 2019 MS261C has run flawlessly for me. It absolutely rips in any season.. I do let it idle at least a minute or two to warm up on cold start, and give it at least a minute to cool down before shutoff after a medium-hard cut. I've been told the computer uses these times as well as the 'hard in the cut' time to adjust fueling trims.
Kreme @ That makes good sense. Especially às your completely happy with the machine. It's a shame nobody reads the handbook and take note of requirements
@@chrisprobert6 Why don't you watch the video again. The magic reset did not work. It does not matter if you read the manual or not, the reset did not work.
@@skrzek Nobody said anything about resetting.
@@skrzek, there are three different reset procedures depending on the version of M-Tronic. If that was the correct reset (and I’m fairly sure it is) replacing the solenoid should solve the problem.
you are 100% corect just cut some trees down into 16'' split and stack 35 cords with one chain , very happy
Well you can thank the epa for the carburetors we are seeing today. I tell my customers with the old saws as long as you can get parts keep them running. Got an 056 in the shop probably needs a carb rebuild. Haven’t had it on the bench yet.
Great vid ! From a 40 yr logging veteran ! Love my stihls , carbonated ones lol !
it was explained to me when i bought my 362-s that the system in these saws can go out of adjustment, and for a variety of reasons, it was explained by the dealer at peralta power, in peralta new mexico, that when they act erratic that once you get them to start, you go to full throttle while NOT under load for five minutes, and the system SHOULD re calibrate,
i am a home owner and dont use that saw very much, but have had issues between winter and summer use, and with altitude changes, since i live at 7800 feet,
and sometimes take my saw and help my brother who lives at 5200 feet, i have had to do this a couple of times, and it has never had other issues,
thank you for your ability to explain things in a straight forward and well informative manner, i myself am a mechanic, but one who works on antique cars, which work at my speed,
old and slow.
i thank you again
have a good day
Full throttle for 5, FIVE minutes???
Wtf 🤣🤣
I admire the honesty from you!
I have an old school pioneer saw that is still running, it's a little heavy but works good 👍
I have one also; the Husky Rancher/Partner 61, white head saw. I use it as a backup for my Stihl 026 for cutting medium size trees, and firewood. The old 026 is light, cranks easily, and has yet to give me any "real" problems, until about a year ago.
It's an OLD saw, and was getting low on compression, so I ordered a Meteor piston and Saber rings and a gasket for it, hoping the cylinder, crank, and bearings were still in good shape...
There was no scoring on the jug, and the crank was surprisingly still in spec. So I replaced the piston and rings, and rebuilt the carb (just bc I keep spares for it). I probably could have just replaced the rings, and been good to go. But a new piston sure does look purdy going in!!
I adjusted the carb, and ran one heat cycle. And now the compression is back to 155, before the ring have had time to seat.
Of course the ole 61 still has enough compression to give you sore wrist!!! 🙂
I have a carb ms 270c bought new in 85, run it all winter long, have changed the spark plug once, and the fuel filter once. Have done nothing else. Have never had 1 problem. Im absolutely amazed!!
Great informative video. I own 4 different Stihl saws and glad I don't own one of those heaps. Also glad I'm not a Stihl dealer. I think they're required to stock most items. I'd have a problem recomending a saw with that system. Seems like they'd be frequently fixing a product that's built a strong reputation for reliability (I thought Stihl was smarter)
I guess I'll pick up a few good older models to have for backups.
Thanks for the vid!!
I recently rebuilt a used and abused Mtronic saw (ms 362) that I got for a song and one of the things I found out is to check the solenoid and fuel filter. Early black solenoids had issues if any grime got in, so stihl came out with a finer orange filter and a redesigned white and later green solenoid that together avoided the solenoid from encountering issues.
Within one of those carbs, they're essentially a standard carb but with a solenoid driving fuel delivery, so it's critical that everything be clean and functional. On that topic, the gaskets and such are still worth checking on them. In my case, the metering diaphragm was hardened and needed attention. After that the saw has been running perfectly for a few tanks.
I also found out the reset procedures are different for the 3 versions of Mtronic, and I mean very different. For version 2 it's letting it idle for 90 in the start position, turn off, start in the run position for 60 seconds, turn off, start and do 5 cuts through a log (Ideally at least 12 inches). For version 3 you idle in the start position for 30-60 seconds, then full throttle for 30 seconds when you'll find the speed drops to an almost idle (indicating calibration is complete).
Or you can convert the saw to a standard carb pretty easily with a new carb, run switch, ignition module, and possibly flywheel. (I don't remember if those are different). Top cover, too, if you don't want to take the cover off every time you adjust the carb.
yes, flywheel too, at least on the 362
Thanks for the information. How do you tell what version your looking at? I have a 462 that must be 3 because that's the procedure my dealer told me to use. So far I'm really liking the saw and am amazed at the consistency in tune. I cut in different temperatures and altitudes and the saw is always spot on in tune.
@@markw2266 on the silver label under the rear handle it may say "M3.0" indicating version 3. If not, it should be version 2.
I was actually just coming to the comments to type the same response. Yours was much more thorough than mine would have been. Lol Good info!!!
That was a perfect explanation.!!!
I have that same saw and I love it! I've found that after running it hard NOT to just turn it off, but let it idle for 15-20 seconds and then there is no problem starting it back up.
Stihl does make the best saws. Love mine! Thanks for the tip!
@@Chickanic
I have a question hopefully you can help me.
My ms211 will not take all the acceleration.
When you try to give full throttle or try to cut into a log it bogs out.
It just started that.
I put a new spark plug in it but it still does same thing.
What can I do.?
@@dc4lifetx. Simplest fix is check the spark arrestor for carbon. If you can't see through it, clean or replace.
Thanks.
I changed the fuel and it is doing better running good again
Your video makes me glad to be cutting wood with a new Echo 7310 this year instead of a new stihl .A repair shop I go to said a dull chain makes the electronic carburetors run slower than a saw with manual adjustment.
A really dull chain WILL blow up your saw, only difference is that if your mtronic is set a bit lean, which could happen, it will blow up relatively soon. either way, with an adjustable carburetor blowing up will for sure happen anyway sooner or later, just depending on how the operator set the carburetor... Talkin with pros u'll hear that everyone would prefer to have a bit richier tuning than having a bit leaner one, the saw will be a tad slower but it will overheat and consequentially blow up more difficultly. A dull chain will not slow down ur saw, simply it won't cut because, well, it is dull. The effect on the saw will be that ur gonna blow it up.
I am actually in the market for another saw and have been looking at Stihl, precisely this model. You have convinced me to keep looking.
I will look for an older Husqvarna that has an adjustable carb.
In my opinion the older saws were better, definitely more user friendly and easier to fix in the field. I had a new Husqvarna 455, just sold it because I can’t adjust the carb beyond the preset limitations.
I should mention, I earned my living for many years with a chainsaw. The 455 is the only non professional saw I have ever owned, and it will be the last one.
Thank you for this video, I have never owned a Stihl and now seriously doubt I ever will.
STIHL makes the 261 without the m-tronic system in it.
My answer to Sthil’s new system after owning STHIL chainsaw’s for the last thirty two years. Go buy an Echo and don’t look back !!! The last two STHIL chainsaws and trimmers that I have owned were both nightmares.
yes sir, i think the same. Echo are the best reliable saws
I've got a 32 year old Echo 510evl and the carb has never been adjusted or rebuilt and still runs top notch. I have cut a lot of wood with it over that time. I've even had a tree drop on it and crack the outer case, but true to it being an Echo, it still runs.
I may have parts for that
Dang.. I didn't know they were around back then. Are the new ones any good?
I hope you knocked on wood when you wrote that. I don't have any old Echo's, but I have a couple of the newer ones and after a couple of years, I haven't had a single problem, Knock on wood!
I have an early 70's echo 425vl. When I received it I think it had been sitting a bit too long... The gas tank smelled of varnish and paint thinner lol. I threw the choke on a few pulls later fired right up. I haven't done a thing besides swap chains out on it it still fires on the 3rd pull.... I should probably change the filters.
@@justicebruno5249 Yeah ... They are . We run two Timber wolf 60cc and a CS501 P all less than 3 years old ... We have 3 older stihls that we rarely use anymore . 024, 027 and 034 just too heavy that later one . The 034 was good and served us well .
Your channel is absolutely amazing. The comments on here are a goldmine! Thank you!
Thanks for you info-clips and yes, I use chain saws even out here in the tree-less New Mexico desert and have started with a few "El Cheapos" and now have two Echo's, one
old large Canadian Pioneer and a Husqvarna and yes, I (being a German) never did like the brand many folks prefer and yes, the one Stihl I did have I gave away since compared to the
Husky and especially the Echo brand, I'm not going to even touch a Stihl with a broomstick anymore.
Hoping to be wrong, I look forward to watch your videos again and send my very best regards your way!
I would be interested to see how the plug looks after cutting some wood for about 30 minutes. Just curious... Great video!!!
50 years ago I ran Homelites because there was a good dealer in the area. 25 years ago, I got back into logging, and ran Husqvarnas. 10 years ago, I bought a used Stihl for occasional use. That Stihl has had more issues and cost more in repairs than all the dozen or more other saws I have owned combined. I also briefly owned a Stihl leaf blower that was so frustrating that I threw it in thew dumpster. I guess you could say I'm not a fan of that brand.
Never buy Stihl used, most likely amateur ran it.
Thanks. My final affirmation. Probably will get an MS261 tomorrow. Definitely not C-M not only for lack of adjustment as you so nicely demonstrate but also for the high cost of the components for the M-tronic system, and forget about labor cost !
Excellent video. Thanks. I've had a 260 for twenty yrs and looking to buy a new machine and was considering the 261. Not..... after seeing this. Today I just did the L H LA adjustments on the old machine and its running like a song. If I cannot work on an engine because of 'fancy computerization' needing special equipment, I will not touch it.
By the way. Great care when using the decompression button as I did not hear the engine 'pop' on a pull one time and so my next pull was against the full compression. My left hand was a little lazy holding the handle. The machine lifted with the loose grip I held and the brake lever took an inch of skin off above the knuckles and right into the tendons. Always a leather left hand glove and a thumb press on the de compressor after every pull now. Esp or mostly always on cold starting.
Great video, I think the ignition module also senses the load on the saw when it's in the wood and richens the mixture accordingly, so an off load plug chop could be miss leading.. M- Tronic carbs are just as easy to rebuild as the normal carb. I strip,clean and replace the diaphragms in my MS 362 M -Tronic every 2yrs or so..Don't be afraid get stuck in.. lolx
issue ive encountered is big end bearings seizing no damage to cyl piston seems either a binding issue or my theory is developing an air leak and trying to autotune itself to compensate so continues running but kills itself vs just becoming unrunable so you fix it.
@@glennlurman3514 You look far to young to be playing with chainsaws ! lol. Thanks for the info though, it does make good sense..
The correct reset procedure for an M tronic Stihl, is after warming the saw up and stopping it, start the saw in cold start and leave it to idle like that for more than 30 seconds. Then apply full throttle, the saw will run normal full throttle for a while then rev higher then come back to a fast idle even though it is still held at full throttle. Reset complete.
Hello. You need to check the diaphragm in carb, then you have to let run on choke for 90 seconds. You need to be at a log when doing 90 seconds. As soon as you shut it off do not start on choke, and start engine again, immediately after starting you need to make 3 cuts Thru a 10"- 12" log wide open throttle without releasing the throttle between cuts, let saw come to idle for 15 seconds shut off then the saw M-Tronic will be reset. You can take out the black solenoid with wire on carb and clean it out with lo air pressure not directly on it while diaphragm is out, also make sure clutch springs are good and needle cage is lubed. most the time its the diaphragm and a reset. by the way I like your videos
Had my m tronic since the first one came out. MS441 cm. Best saw ever.
All I own for my home is Echo! Always starts, always works, always easy to get parts!
I've found that Echo and Dolmar parts are more expensive than other brands like Stihl and Husqvarna because, for some reason, there isn't an aftermarket for those saws.
I was pretty keen on a 261 CM a few months ago as I've owned a number of professional grade Stihl items over the years and still do, but that M-Tronic just didn't sit easy with me (among other things) for the same reasons. I ended up buying a Shindaiwa 501-SX (Echo 501P). Professional grade, lovely Japanese quality, 5 year warranty, no electronics, lots of torque, and best of all very light weight (0.5 kg less than the Stihl). Very happy with my decision and frankly getting tired of every time I go into a Stihl dealer feeling like I'm being badge marketed to and gouged.
I bought a 261 NON "C" because of this video. I have already adjusted my carb and its running great. Just a tip, my saw starts in 3 pulls every time. Two pulls with choke on, 1 pull on high idle and it starts.
I picked up a 14" battery chain saw a couple years ago. I don't use it often, but when I need it, it 'starts', no messing with old gas and plugged carbs. I got to put it to the test when we had two tornadoes rip through the neighborhood last summer. The two 18v batteries lasted six hours (+/-?) and when they quit, plugged in two more. Both my neighbors were as impressed as much as I was.
We also picked up a 80 volt Kobolt saw that we recently cut down a dead standing tree of a few years. The saw cut through a 30" diameter hard wood tree easily & also limed it as well as cut in rounds for some friends to use to heat their house with. The tree was at least 50' tall. Strange to cut down & limb a tree with no noise! Only used 1 battery also but had a backup if needed. Went all electric with our self-propelled mower several years ago as became fed up with carburetor issues as well as electronic ignition coil systems also. The mower & saw use the same batteries & charger. Now if someone would make a decent simple single cab long box compact pickup we would want to buy it too, especially if the pickup had a least 300 mile range hauling 1,000#.
Finally chainsaws have caught up with early 1980’s automotive emission technology…that was horrible!
From the movie ... backwards. (Forward to the past. Now if only someone figured out how to get younger.)
Have u held the 500i yet?
I have not, but I bet it screams!!!
I have a 2013 MS261, with the air screws, no M-tronic, that came in the next year. My saw starts on the 5th pull, it fires on the 4th but I need to flip the lever up to the run position. Enjoying your expertise!
I love my m tronic saws. Beat the piss out of a 560 brush saw I had for a few years, loved it. In bc I change altitude constantly, I could hear it adjusting when I moved blocks. With that said I think fuel injection is the future
There are a lot of complaints in my are of problems with them. I am old school, and will keep my old saw running as long as I can get parts.
There are a lot of factors that go into carb adjustment, weather and altitude are big ones.
Keep up the videos. 🤙
Does your daily driver still have a carburetor?
This is the same kind of nightmare I had to deal with as an automotive mechanic back in the early 80's, starting in 81 cars had computer controlled carbs, yes, I'm not joking, the metering rods were computer controlled and they were absolute nightmares.
I had a new 1976 International Harvester pickup that would cut out because of the electronics. Converted it back to points, distributor.
@@tomcurran1538
I've done that same thing to so many Harley's you wouldn't believe it, I currently have a 2003 Sportster that I converted over to points, every year when I change oil I put a new set of points and a condenser in it, never had a problem with it.
I still have my tools to rebuild a Rochester E2ME/E4ME...not that I will ever need them again...my TDI VW makes more HP and torque than the wheezy V8 that had one of those Rochester carbs on it. There is a learning curve for manufacturers and mechanics and eventually all saws will be electric whether we want it or not...
I had a stihl saw with the m-tronic system. Never did run right. Glad i still have my older ms290 and a husqvarna 136. Both are good saws and just had to put new carburetor diaphragms in both of them and they run like new
My stihl dealer told me to let the saw idle for 5 seconds after starting. Usually starts around 3 pulls, even at -18 below. Also 91 gas on the 362 but like you said, let it idle for one min then hit full power.. You will hear the change. I also let my 362 cool down after hard use.. Try it!!
so you know that the machine is running lean by the white on the tip of the spark plug even after doing the "reset" meaning that it is still not getting enough fuel. That would tell me that the diaphragm and gasket inside the carb need to be replaced. And yes even though it is controlled by a small Microchip that makes all the adjustments every millisecond or whatever it is you can still go ahead and blow out the carb make sure it is free of any noticeable junk and rebuild it with new diaphragms. Having said this I wouldn't put it in an ultrasonic cleaner because of the wires and such on the carb but you could've done that to try rectify that issue of not enough fuel before taking it to a dealer. Even though it is electronically controlled for adjustments it is still rubber diaphragms is inside and after a period of time need to be replaced just like any other carb may need.
the husqvarna and stihl systems are extremely similar. i heard that the first generation of this technology was sold by one to the other but cant remember which way around. i know the husqvarna system reads baro at start up and varies the fuel delivery dependant on that. so each time it starts it is basically reset. ones that come in cooked usually have plugged air filters and our belief is (but we are not sure of) is that the carbs will adjust for the dirty filters but there is no cut off in the programming and they go way lean because of the reduced air flow and higher baro pressures seen by the sensor.
on another note- once a carb is set (which should be done on a good operating saw (or whatever it is)with good fuel plug air cleaner etc). there should not be a need to tweak it. see it all the time. if it starts to loose power or run poorly put down the screwdriver and see what has changed. bad gas diferent mix dirty air filter plugged fuel filter plugged exhaust crankcase leak etc. its change in running is an indicator that something is different and a tweak may be a quick fix it will continue to go down hill.
Husky developed the mtronic and was forced to share with Stihl over a trade agreement
This comment takes me back to 1975 spanish dirt bike FT Femsa magneto, 1976 changed to Femsatronic IGN, It became known as Failsyatronic, We would machine up a breakerplate to run points,, But by the 80s it was reliable, I would like to study the components use in the engine managment electronis system, Does it have an O2 senser, Doesit have an EGT, and i'm sure a Knock detector is not what you want on a 2 stroke, And timing curve you want the timing advanced for easy start, But to retard as rpm rises
Montesa, Bultaco, Ossa, Penton, Dalesman,, All gone
Redmax made both systems and some time after Husqvarna bought Redmax they sold the Mtronics system to Stihl.
Typically, a stuffy air filter causes them to go rich, by acting like the choke is on.
I have a Stihl 028 Wood Boss that I bought from a old gentleman back in 1990. He told me that he bought it new in 1979. He told me when I bought it that it had an air leak between the casing and sold it to me for $75. I took it to a Stihl repair shop and had it fixed for $50. This thing still runs great. That shop and two others told me that I could go over to the display shelf, pick out any Stihl chainsaw I wanted and they would swap me even. I was hesitant and just said no thanks. After the third guy told me that I asked him why was he willing to do that. He told me that Stihl no longer made their casings out of metal and they now made them out of some type of plastic and they had changed the ignition over to an electronic system and it just wasn't as dependable. Glad I didn't fall for an unblemished new chainsaw. Mine looks rough but it is a workhorse and it has never let me down.
I own sever 028s, and MTronic stuff also, , , ,I always grab the 028s for every job, and the Mtronic only for bigger wood, but yes, the 028s always perform great
I have a 661 C-M that flooded so bad after 5 pulls on a cold start it was dripping fuel out the decompress button. That wasn't the first time but not every time either. I took it in under warranty and described the symptoms to the "master mechanic" and he told me he would check the circuit board. Great, that sounded like a reasonable course of action. When I went in to pick it up 3 weeks later they wanted to charge me so I asked why and was told 1) it had really really bad gas and not mixed to the proper ratio. I use aviation 100LL and I know how to mix, I mean how hard is it to pour in the Stihl brand oil and fill the can up to the 1 gallon mark? And they replaced the gas filter. I preceded to read the "master mechanic" the riot act and left the saw with instructions to have the owner of the Ace hardware store call me. He ended up not charging me. They also had to replace my bar, chain, scabbard and engine cover because they lost them. I think I actually may have remedied the problem after taking at least a half hour to get the flooded saw started it was running very rough and took several minutes of goosing the throttle to keep it going enough to idle without stalling. Then using it to make a few cuts on an oak. After that it seemed to be running normal but I Stihl took it in to have it looked at. It hasn't given me any problems since so I'll never know for sure what made it flood like it did unless it acts up again the same way. But I Stihl suspect the circuit board.
What he said (below) - fer sure! I have a 39 yo Stihl that's about one step away from the scrap pile. When I buy a replacement, it is not going to be a Stihl. Stihl has gone the way of John Deere and many other manufacturers. That is, making it almost impossible to repair their equipment if you are not an authorized repair center. I have been supporting "right to repair" efforts, and am happy to see progress being made. NY has passed legislation (and other states are following suite) to force manufacturers to make the same parts, tools, documentation, and software their service techs have available to the consumer and repair aftermarket. All that being said, here's a question for you: What brand(s) of chainsaw is the the easiest to get parts for and repair? Thanks Chickanic!
Check the reset procedure that you used against the build of the MS261C-M as there are several different reset procedures. I have two Stihl M-Tronic saws in my kit as well as 6 other saw types. I like the M-Tronics and have had no trouble with the fuel system at all. Wonder what you think of the MS500i if you don't like the M-Tronic? Time marches on...
People always fear what they don't understand. Any piece of new technology will have someone somewhere fearing it to high heaven. The automotive repair industry experienced this when fuel injection became the norm in the late 80's/early 90's. The outdoor power equipment industry is experiencing the same now. Although, with the push to battery powered equipment I suspect a good number of small engine mechanics will never get the chance to get good at diagnosing and repairing computer controlled gas powered equipment as they will not really see much of this "transitional" technology.
I’m by no means a Stihl mechanic, or even a small engine mechanic, but I do commercial tree felling and logging and I use the entire Stihl pro line in my work.
I recently had a very similar issue come up with both my 462c and 362c. It was a extremely hot day ( above 36 degrees celsius ) in very dusty conditions and after about 3 hours on both saws they became very difficult to start - to the point I started field stripping the saws to try and find the problem. Both spark plugs were very fowled and burn - and were showing signs of excessive oil consumption over fuel as there was oil residue on the threads of the plugs. Of course I first tried to clean the plugs, use sand paper to clear the tips - and that did get them to start and run for about 20 min but once I shut them off - couldn’t start them again. Again I pulled the plugs and again they looked like I never cleaned them to start with. The 462c was much easier to reset once a new plug was in and the fuel drained and fresh fuel added. The Mtronic system actually reset itself in about 35 seconds of idling in the shade and out of the dust. The 362c was a bigger headache and refused to reset regardless of what I did - until I stumbled on a little trick that ( so far ) has it fixed. I removed the bar and chain completely. Took the air filter off ( after it sat in a garage for a few days not running ) I gave it the same treatment as the 462c - fresh fuel, new plug, blew out the saw with compressed air and I kept it on choke. It started, was very very rough but it started. I put the air filter back on and let it idle for a minute. Shut it off and let it sit for 30 seconds. Fired it back up and it seemed to reset itself completely. I put the bar and chain back on and it’s been running like new since. I can’t say I know the science behind it but there is definitely some aspect of having to let these Mtronic saws reset after being run hard in extreme conditions. They seem to definitely need a bit more regular checks but the system seems to be resettable by running it in full choke then doing a hot start and let it correct itself.
thanks Girl! i used to be a stihl guy but switched to echo wish I would have done it years ago! you ROCK1
Naughty naughty, very naughty.
Truly wondering how much a 'reset' at the dealer would cost. But having said that, does the machine have a screw on the control module that you could remove and screw into a second reset hole. This, actually is a switch that would just bring the reset circuit on. Some industrial machines have this sort of arrangement.
In STIHL's case, it's not just a "reset", its a forced re-calibration of the carburettor and as you inderstand it cannot be made just by pressing a "reset" button like on your personal computer.
The saw will need to be ran for at least a tank before you can read the plug. To read a plug correctly the engine will need to be shut off during a cut, no idle time, and you look at the base of the ceramic, which will require cutting the threads off the plug. The saw sounded like it was running perfectly fine.
"and you look at the base of the ceramic, which will require cutting the threads off the plug" What utter, utter BS. I've been involved in 2 stroke bike racing for more than 40 years, and I've never heard anyone claiming that, and there is probably no more cutthroat form of 2 stroke use than in bikes, with the possible exception of karting.
The point about stopping mid cut is much the same as what we know as a "Plug chop"in m/cycle racing. These were officially banned at GP level because of the danger of doing so while other bikes, on the same part of the circuit, are under full load.
OTOH, wtf would you need to run a whole tank at load to get an effective reading? You're getting a mixture reading, not a f**king full diagnostic! And a mixture reading doesn't even need to be at full operating temperature, if the mixture is that bad. And you know what else tends to happen when you run an engine very lean for a long time, especially a performance 2 stroke at full chat? It tends to melt the piston. Yeah, off course, I'm going to run an ultra lean engine at full chat for an entire tank full, right
You know, I get it that you're trying to help, but there is all sorts of BS about 2 strokes out there, mostly because 2 stroke tuning really is a bit of a "Black art", even today, when we know so much about the dynamics of 2 strokes. But this is not tuning, this is checking the mixture, and there really isn't that much to it.
@David Colin I actually agree with much of what you said I don't even read plugs anymore. Tuning is easy when you know what you're doing, this chick does not.
Love your videos. Very helpful information. Also watching you start a big saw is inspiring. 👍👍😂
I know some of those Stihl saws have a pressed in adjustment stop. I’ve been able to drill them out and rip the limiter caps out. Even adjusting the idle you have to take some of the electronic components off, adjust it and put the carburetor back on hoping you didn’t turn it too much or too little. Horrific design. But for Stihl, it’s a great design.
You did a great job on that video. It is sad that home owners can't work on their own equipment. These big companies like John Deere and Stihl are controling the home owners equipment with the computerized equipment. Its very sad.
This is one of the reasons the EU is pushing for a "Right to Repair" law. The USA would do well to consider one, but will probably benefit from the EU's work anyway. One of the biggest players in trying to torpedo the legislation is Apple.They successfully lobbied for the right to keep their iPhone chargers out of the charger legislation on the grounds of "Not wanting to be limited in their innovation". However, there has been absolutely zero innovation in Apple chargers, and the next round of EU legislation will force them to comply with the chosen standard.
That episode also did a good job of persuading EU legislators that Apple do not negotiate in good faith, so I really don't think that they have much chance of defeating the first round of "Right to Repair" legislation. That first round of legislation is due to come in in 2022, I believe. It is very likely that there will be more legislation later on.
The government is controlling these companies. If they want to do business in the USA, they have to follow the tree huggers rules.
@@markdavis7586 where did you come up with that idea. You must be watching computer videos that Trump is making.
It is likely an issue with the solenoid but if it is a computer issue it will probably just be shop time. I work at a dealer. The biggest thing is if the have the equipment
Good point on the marine oil mix. Customer of mine burnt my saw up using marine 2 stroke mix.
Very interesting video I have a m Stihl chainsaw which won't run been told needs new carb for about£120 here in UK and they had special deal on new chainsaws for £170 with 2year warranty so no comparison bought the new one .
This is the trouble nowdays a throw away society instead of manufacturing stuff that can be repaired no wonder the planet is in a mess,will try your reset thanks
M-tronic saws are pretty cool most of my co-workers own one and they have all had to go to the backup at one point or another. I’ve got a few older stihl saws but recently got an echo 7310 and 4910 and had them ported. I don’t think I’d switch back there shouldn’t be 10 different ways to wrench on a two stroke saw it just defeats their purpose. I always liked that about pro saws you can basically do a complete service in the bush with a couple tools that has kept me from going with an auto tune or m-tronic. My ported 7310 will beat a 500i head to head.
Let’s see that on video.
Bre This is going to be more and more a problem. It’s called “Right to Repair”. Manufacturers are insuring you have to go to dealer for service.
It’s been a problem with cars , computers and smart phones. They say John Deere is going this way and it looks like Stihl is now.
Good luck from this retired car mechanic who tinkers with mowers now. Thanks. Del
That’s not the same…
@@blakegrubb3091 Ok. How so ? I’m just familiar with the automotive field (45 years professional repair tech).
I thought she said you needed some type of “diagnostic” device to go further.
I appreciate your input as I’ve just been working on small engines this summer.
John Deere is trying to prohibit Right to Repair. I helped a local farmer last year get his combine running again. Thing shut down in the middle of the field. Snagged a "copy" of the JD software and "adjusted" a faulty def sensor. Helped my brother in law "tune" a New Holland. Gained around 53% better fuel economy. The epa needs to go pound sand with their "emissions" BS.
@@wizzlefits Yep not a fan of the EPA either dictating how we must adapt to their demands of go green and pay more to operate anything without the watchful eye of big brother scrutinizing everything we do
John Deere has been this way for a while now.
They told me when i bought my ms362CM to clean out the air filter every other tank of gas or it will burn up due to starving for air. I love it so far never had a problem and it is very reliable.
For what it's worth. A couple of decades ago sthil went to 50 to 1 mix. Burnt up a lot of saws. Still use their mix, but at 40 to 1. 50 to 1 is probably just fine for the home owner.
My 028 has 35 years and counting. My new saw runs like a scalded ape.
Might have been fair to run that saw a bit longer than a couple revs before condemning the M-Tronic system. Probably takes a bit more running to carbon up that new spark plug. From the sound it seemed noticeably better after your reset. I'm kinda glad you're not a Stihl dealer if thats all it takes for you to say the carb/M-Tronic is bad. $$$$$
I never checked a new plug on a saw, but on my 2stroke motorcycle it takes about 100km of driving to get proper deposits on brand new plug, after that I can change the mixture and observe results after 500 meters but the new plugs are too smooth or something and it takes forever to create that first layer.
Now as far as the “Stihl” oil and warranty, buy their oil when you buy the saw, then go to your local parts and supply store for lawn and garden, and buy castrol oil, they are the same oil!
Take that saw into some wood, then after 6 or 7 cuts, recheck the spark plug, 90 seconds is not enough time to remove the “lean burn” markings from a plug, so your initial reset may have worked, but because of only a short run time it didn’t show on the spark plug!
Also reading spark plugs on a 2-stroke is dubious as well.
I didn't show it in the video due to not wanting all of the "safety apparel" comments, but we did put it in the wood before I checked the plug. I work on chainsaws everyday. I check 3-10 plugs everyday and know how to read them and how fast a change in fuel mixture should change the look of the element. The "re-set" did not fix the problem. Thanks for watching!
I have a cheap chainsaw that cost $180 brand new. From the factory the carburetor is jetted lean. At first I thought it was only low speed because the engine ran fantastic at high speed but would bog down slightly at low speed. But after hard use and seeing the muffler glow red, now I know it is lean throughout the rev range. I am amazed the engine is still running after being run lean for as long as it has. But now that I know, I can fix this issue at home with some hand tools. Would I run the saw that lean ever again? No. But it was nice to know that the saw never simply stopped working because of a software issue and a great comfort that I could fix the issue myself. What does that say about Stihl when a $600+ chainsaw decides to suddenly stop running good when you need it to, and your only option is to have the dealer "repair" it at a ridiculous price? What is the price of this "repair" anyway? $600+?
If it is a M3.0 saw there is a reset procedure.
1. Put the switch to the triangle and start the saw with the chain break engaged. (It’s best for it to be warm before starting the procedure.) DO NOT TOUCH THE TRIGER. Let the saw idle for 30-60 secs. No more, no less.
2. After 31secs to 59 secs, disengage the chain break and apply full throttle for 30 secs.
3. During the 30 sec full throttle, the saw may fluctuate. At some point, if done right, the saw will rev to maximum rpm. Be prepared for this and don’t panic or release the throttle.
4. After the maximum rpm dies down, it will return to a lower rpm. Stop the saw.
5. Restart and cut away.
The M-Tronic version number is located on the saw identification label.
I trust my echo chainsaws!
That is very interesting. It reminds me of why I sort of like the equipment that’s about the same age that I am. Give me a set of points and total adjustability and the engineering to last 50 or 75 years.
I am the same. Nothing meats the old stuff.
I own the MS 261 carb unit and it does fine. I own a Husqvarna XP 562 with auto tune that does fine. The spark plug burns brown at the electrode tip like it suppose too. If I would have had it to do over I would have bought the Sthil MS - 362 with the standard carburetor. I am old schooler and have other units blowers weedeaters prune saws. I just like having the option of making my own adjustments. I will have to admit the auto tune is nice own the Husqvarna and sthil sells alot of the m tronic saws.
I agree 100%. I do not like any computer controlled saws, whether Memtronic or Autotune. I only have one, my ms 241 C-M. It has caused me more little minor problems than any of my other 12 saws. This past weekend it decided to throw the E clip and sprocket washer off. I was lucky it did not eat the sprocket bearing, too. I finished the job with my Husky 455 and my Stihl 181 CBE. In the past the 241 lost spark when it vibrated the spark plug coil out of the spark plug wire. It also completely blocked over the spark arrester screen running Moto Mix. Nothing bad, but it has been a pita.
Very informative video. Thank you👍
I like most of your videos, but have to say on this one, your "information " isn't totally correct, and each independent dealer is different, but the dealer i work for offers free carburetor adjustments, and even though we are a Stihl dealer, we do the same for husqvarna, echo, etc.
I did not understand your "chain running because not enough fuel" statement, unless you're referring to a "lean" condition causing it to over rev. and the official reset is-
(on/off has 3 positions)
first-
lowest position- start, leave it there- no throttle at all, for 90 seconds, shut off.
second-
lowest position, start, immigration trigger to allow to move to middle position, run 90 seconds, shut off.
third-
lowest position, start, immediately make a continuous 60 second cut into wood, shut off.
it is now "reset"
I state again, aut our humble little STIHL dealership, there is no charge for ANY brand carb adjustment, and yes, I'm old school, not a particular fan of all the electronics mumbo jumbo but don't necessarily blame stihl, husqvarna, or anyone else, its our wonderful EPA that is mandating cleaner burning stuff resulting in the need for this BS.
ALSO
I didn't see something I feel was VERY important to saw operation, but when you read the plug, was you using their gas or yours? I dump existing fuel when I make adjustments, because I want to KNOW the fuel is good, fresh and properly mixed. I don't care HOW adjustable your carburetor is. you're going to have a lean condition if they don't know how to do fuel properly.
She LITERALLY said it was HER mix of fuel, Typical Stihl sheep, blindly defending the product even though it has been garbage for decades. Even dishonest scum Stihl dealers admit right to my face that nothing in their store will come close to the 07S my Dad has had for 40 years, nothing but Chinese junk for decades, all the Germans do is slap the STIHL sticker on and charge 2 grand
@@ralphwiggum4805 and NO, I'm not a typical "Stihl sheep." I own 2 husqvarna saws, 1 trimmer. 1 Jonsred saw, 2 poulan saws, 3 homelite (project)saws, 2 Stihl saws and 1 trimmer. BAAAAAA to you.
@@ralphwiggum4805 anger issues? have a snickers bar
@@ENDERTON2000 nah, no anger issues here since i threw the Stihls in the trash ;) Fuel primers, Decompression valves..... you know, STANDARD features on even $100 Chinese saws that the $2000 Stihls don't have..... life is good :) The best part is never having to speak to a Stihl dealer ever again
@@ralphwiggum4805 I'm thinking they are just as excited to not have to see you again. there's a saying in retail that we love to see all customers. some we love to see COME IN, others we love to see LEAVE
Love my Echo cs590.
Carbatrator for this Cat!!
One thing I would have done after the reset is to make some cuts @ WOT. This would given more time for the plug to reach op. temps, then immediately shut down to check the plug.
Years ago, when out riding dirt bikes, we re-jetted carbs almost the same. Take the bike for a WOT rip, kill the engine,, pull in clutch, and coast to a stop. Then checked plug:)
I believe Husqvarna chainsaws come with a two year homeowner warranty, not a four year warranty. I just bought a new chainsaw so I reviewed the latest information recently. Also, if I'm not mistaken, you don't have to just buy Stihl's oil to extend the warranty. I think you have to buy their engineered fuel/oil mix. Echo has the best warrantee of four years. I ended up choosing an Echo CS-620P, not just because of the excellent warranty but mainly because it seemed to be better than comparably priced Stihl and Husqvarna chainsaws some of which have plastic crankcases, believe it or not, while Echo's crankcase is magnesium. I think some Echo chainsaws are better built and are a better value than comparable Stihl and Husqvarna chainsaws. Thanks for posting your excellent videos.
I laughed out loud the way that you dope slapped the scrench to loosen the plug! 🤣
I have a Stihl ms 661m magnum that has been a good saw. No trouble so far. I hope it stays that way.
I was concerned when I bought it about the M Tronic because I am used to the old style ms280, Dolmar 5010, Mac 10-10, Homelight 10xl and the stump cutter poulan tooth shaker.
The 462 m-tronic must be better. We've been running them cutting commercial timber hardwoods (oak, hickory, maple etc) for over a year and haven't had any issue BUT!!!! The air/fuel ratios for these saws are very lean soooo.... mix oil mix oil mix oil... oh and good gas with at least 90 octane.. just my 2 cents. Hopefully nobody gets their feelings hurt
One of the original trial 462s a mate of mine had and he was given it by stihl UK to trial over 3 years ago, i used it several times and i thought it was a fantastic saw, he was told to run it as hard as he could and he did, just basic maintenance on it by him at the wk end, the first issue was at 8 and a half month old with 517 hrs on it, and that was fuel solinoid it then went on for a another 11 month before before next issue, nice saw well balanced with a 20" bar and a dream to use,
Sw bandit I run the shit out of my 462c I’ve never had a problem out of mine and had it for 3 years now I do maintenance on it every weekend and recalibrate it once a month. I run it 6 days a week cutting trees in florida
There’s a lil grommet on the fuel piston on the 261cm
It’s on the side of the carb
That grommet fails and will cause lean conditions and running issues
This is primarily on the older versions of the m tronic
Great vid and very timely for me to view this. Was on the fence on purchasing a professional stihl mtronic. Saved me hundreds of $'s on the initial purchase and service costs in the future. Chainsaws have worked well for 50 years without electronics, if it aint broke dont fix it with something that is going to be problematic that the end user cannot at least try to adjust. Another thing as I was following along with your vid, I too see and agree the plug is way lean, I wonder what the cylinder temps are and how that is going to affect longevity of this saw if not fixed by the stihl dealer, the damage may be already done. Really good points on your behalf, we all appreciate this fine channel.
In my experience with conventional carbs and the new Mtronic and Autotune, they have to be run under load and not just bench tested for a good 30 minutes or more to even begin to see any color on the plug. My Husky Autotune runs a nice chocolate brown (maybe even a hair rich) all the time which is just the opposite of what I thought it would be.These are good systems and they have worked most of the bugs out by now. The only main issue is that you have to have the proprietary software to read the fuel trims and see if there are any error codes. Only dealers of Stihl and Husky can get the software so yes, they will have to go to the Stihl dealer. Echo has a version in Europe known as the Autochoke (CS 352AC) so my favorite brand will have it in America soon.
My 3 favorite things about Echo chainsaws and trimmers:
No stratified engines that I know of.
Adjustable carbs(those limiters seem to disappear somehow).
Easy starting.
You can't properly read a spark plug in 90 seconds at idle.
What no way to adjust it.. dam it..
I agree 100%. If I can help it, I won't buy any kind of chainsaw, string trimmer, or leaf blower, that doesn't have the adjustment screws. At least, an electronic control can potentially adjust for changes in humidity, barometric pressure, altitude, temperature, ethanol content of the fuel, the age of the fuel, the brand of 2 cycle oil, and finally, changes in compliance of the diaphragm in the carburetor. Some of the non-adjustable carburetors never seem to run right. I live in Utah, which is ~4,000 feet above sea level. I have the opposite problem. EVERY engine that I own, be it 2 cycle, or 4 cycle, that has a non-adjustable carburetor runs rich. I end up putting copper wire strands in the jets, to lean it, for a good burn. That solves the problem with the running mixture, but, the idle ends up too lean. I don't know how the EPA can expect manufacturers, to build a "one size fits all" carburetor, and expect that it will maintain perfect fuel/air ratio under any circumstance. Without working electronic controls, they're chasing a "unicorn".
I'm nervous about that lean burn. If it isn't getting adequate fuel, It's NOT getting adequate oil!!! Pull the muffler off. Let's see how badly that piston is scored.
Right on. I remember my parents had an Oldsmobile with an electronic computerized carburetor back in the day. It worked well for many years, but in it's old age became problematic. That system was replaced by electronic fuel injection..... I'm guessing that the same thing will happen with small engines.