TURBO HEMI TEST-STOCK BOTTOM END!!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- BIG BANG HEMI TEST-ULTIMATE STRESS TEST! HOW MUCH BOOST? HOW MUCH POWER CAN WE MAKE WITH A STOCK BOTTOM END 5.7L HEMI? WE ALL KNOW THEY HAVE WEAK PISTONS. SHOULD WE TAKE IT EASY ON THE BOOST? DO THEY BREAK AT 10 PSI, 15 PSI OR 20 PSI? HOW MUCH POWER IS THAT?
I love how he said "the pistons will break long before 1000hp" then it turned 1100hp. It did hurt it in the end. But it could have done 800-900hp reliably
Lol 😂 right
Basically 800-900hp is the max reliably for a 5.7l it can go higher but start expecting things to start breaking over 900hp
@@redhunnid5142reliable for about a week lol
So if I have hyperutetic rods and pistons a bore and ported headed can it take 17-18.5 psi boost?
@@michaelbrown091rods are forged
Richard breaks them so we don't break our wallet!!!
Thank you for all these great tips and thorough testing.
Richard is best in class in telling you exactly what went wrong and what we can learn from it.
I've made accusations that he actually consumes engine parts for sustenance.
I can make horsepower but it will most likely see the moon within all of me going over 25% throttle 😂
Over 500hp without a turbo. Put that 5.7 in a Dodge Magnum wagon and you'd have a great road trip vehicle. Another great video sir, thanks for the hard work.
Adam Patterson oh it’s fantastic in a 4dr 4x4 too, especially with the magic of the 8 speed ZF trans. A lot of 13 second cars are surprised when a 6000lb truck pulls away.
I was impressed with that 500 hp too but it kinda makes sense after I thought about it. 5.7l with good heads, cam and intake should be a ripper.
I grew up a Chevy guy but I've always wanted to build a Magnum for the reason you said. They have a ton of space in them.
I mean it’s flywheel. Fair amount of power sure, but nothing to go crazy about
@@yotaismygame This is true but you don't always need a fire breathing monster under the hood to have a good vehicle for making road trips in.
@@GarcBomber There is an older gentleman that doesn't live to far from us and he didn't want the expense of a diesel so he bought a dually with the big Hemi and flys by the house pulling his gooseneck trailer loaded with cattle. He is very happy with his new Ram
Do again with "new" found knowledge. Go Hemi!
Yes !! That would be great
explain please....
Would also like to see it with the new edelbrock heads
@@bryansautosupply it was a used engine should re test with a new engine
We need more 5.7 stuff
Well done Richard. I've got a few customers running stock block 5.7s (heads/cam) with 14-16 psi whipples on e85 and they put down 700-800 whp on the chassis dyno and have been running strong for years at the strip. Maybe its not as strong as a LS, but its not a bad engine
Wait, really? I'd love to do that to my challenger soon.
@@Felix-gm9im Yep. I've got one customer with a whipple, heads and cam on E85 and a War Viking trans that has gone as fast as 10.1@136 in his 5.7 Challenger. We just do the tuning but his parts package is pretty basic.
What’s so special about LS motors
I see more Silverado’s break than Rams
If you could explain
@@rssdefensecorp8756 Depends on the power level you want. Specifically talking about the 5.7 Hemis only, there have been some issues with lifters seizing up that can eat up the valvetrain. And at least on the earlier models, the rods don't appear to hold up all that well when you start pumping the power up. Obviously I've got customers that have proven they _can_ make big power, but none that have pushed as far as the LS guys have on stock rods. AFAIC, its cool to say "I made 1000 hp on stock rods/pistons", but you're still rolling the dice whether its Ford, GM or Chevy if you're gonna run that on a daily basis.
@@ChurchAutoTest the new 5.3 are all Aluminum Blocks the Ram is cast Iron once the Lifters are upgraded then its unstoppable
Plus the 5.3 and 6.6 are all direct injection
I could hear Brule's voice in there "...can we add rods and pistons now?"
I love that we're talking about a thousand horsepower like it's nothing and people are less than impressed when a junkyard 5.7 is making Dodge demon horsepower. I know it's all going to go away soon with electric cars but these are good times
Please please do more hemi stuff. Thank you so much Richard. Awesome as always.
I love how you can test any brand, give it a fair shot, and come up with not only good hp, but also recommendations to prevent engine damage. A truly useful dyno session with a lot of useful info. Job well done....again.
I didn't know what to expect but woah that's a big number.
Great video Richard thanks
I agree it deserves a fair shake with the good stuff. Colder air, less back pressure and then more timing!!!
You need a shirt that says, "If you boost it, they will come."
Genius!
fr
You're nailing it Richard. Very nice. Occasionally you're touching on a direction that really has most of us wanting more. Horsepower and how much can you get...now add another target of information like going all out with available bolt-ons, showing cost and possibly limiting your builds to "streetable" like idle quality, vacuum and pump gas with octane boost to something like 97 to 100 octane. Maybe showing a little lower rpm loading with the dyno. Build it and boost it until it breaks.
I love it
Richard, It seems every day you introduce another incredible video involving junkyard visits, rebuilds, modifications, and dyno time. My only question to you is...do you ever sleep???
Given his energy levels and constant content...I’m pretty sure he’s not even human. 😂
what is this sleep thing you refer to?
@@83Yankee he doesnt need sleep , he needs dyno pulls
@@richardholdener1727 My point exactly!...
@@richardholdener1727 :D
This is awesome and answers a lot of questions I had about turbocharging a stock bottom end hemi as I have a 06 300c
Use the drop in piston/rods assembly that MMX is bragging about, all the stuff you were taking about, & "Feed 'er the onions"!Give it as much of a chance as you give the others.
Hey, great video, and yes please redo the 5.7 hemi test to see what they can take. I love those little hemi's. I'm wondering what there upper safe rpm limit is to, with simple/cost effective valve train tweaks.
Great job, great content!. Keep up the good work.
Shoot I'm just trying to see if Magnum or the 3rd gen Hemi is more power per buck ratio. Whichever makes higher low end for cheaper wins.
More Mopar tests please!
5.2 and 5.9 big bang tests
As cool as it would be to see a bigger number, it would really be cool to see you fine tune it and reproduce that number with the lowest amount of boost possible. In reality nobody is really expecting 1100 hp out of their junkyard motor. To see you make an 1100 hp junkyard motor that is semi reliable would be awesome
You need to revisit this Hemi again ! Put in all of the modifications you mention, and flog it through the dyno once more. Please !
Forged pistons, twin S475's, 4150 style intake and it'll make 1500! Prove me wrong Richatd
Easy!
No reason for a carb type intake, what its got is better
Dude that’s amazing and you proved many people wrong. Great video man I would love to see you do this motor up with everything in optimal ranged and proper combo for max power.
Exactly why I can't wait till you max out the 455 Buick because I'm tired of every body "old saying" about how much they can take when you already went over 740+ pounds of torque at low Boost,,, anyways this is great Info Rich
Still would like to see a 5.9 magnum test
Same here. I own 2 5.9 engines (one is in my truck, the other im still deciding what to do with)
Throw out that trash.
6.1 Hemi next
The 5.9 is useless
@@noidontthinksolol sound is really the only decent thing about it though
Tony DeFeo i.e. Uncle Tony’s Garage did a pretty cool examination of the 5.7 Hemi block and showed why and where the weakness comes from.
seen the same video and what he said makes total sense to me but still 1100 hp from a stock bottom hemi is nice
@@Ryanthesavagesmith agreed
@Curtis Fleabag ...mine has 213,000 miles on it ...with no issues to date... I had to change the fuel pump twice...but that's about it...2004 Hemi Sport Ram 1500 ...5.7L Hemi, 345 h.p.
I like Uncle Tony, but he was DEAD WRONG on the Gen III Hemi video. Dead wrong.
TEST-STOCK BOTTOM END, Sir your work is not done, not yet.
Thanks for doing this test, a buddy of mine and I have bee contemplating doing the same thing. As a matter of reference, there are several aftermarket intakes available for the gen 3 Hemi, but most of them are barely better than what the factory has produces, especially when considering the power per dollar argument. Your video's are amazing, and you are doing an incredible job dispelling all of the myths out there. One last thing, the Hemi with the most issues are the 6.4 not the 5.7 due to the tighter tolerances from the factory.
Scotty Taylor @STREETMACHINETV here's something to take a look at for the rust-olium wagon due to the news of your engine choice
Yesss i agree 👌👌
I will sponsor him a turbo
That combination is really practical in NA form. Torque bubble from 4000 to 6000. That's as good as it gets. Run it!
I love this! Gives me thought about my future build for my R/T. But heck, I’m just trying to make it to 500rwhp N/A!
I vote for a second test on an 09+ 5.7. Lots more ram owners with the gen 4 body style trucks do major mods than the gen 3 trucks.
I LOVE IT!!! Suggestion: Update the cam, and add twin turbos. Great video and education. I learned so much.
Thanks for not just being a chevy guy. I'm doing an lq4 swap in a monte carlo, and picking up parts in a 2012 ram. This is all great content. Thanks Richard.
Awesome test. Love to see another hemi big bang! Maybe even a 6.1??? Beefier rods, forged crank, piston squirters...
I think the 6.1 came with forged crank..not sure tho 🤔
6.1 forged crank is pretty much a drop-in for a 5.7.
@@chrisreynolds6520 sweeet
Curtis Holland only the 392s come factory with a forged crank
@@widebody_moparmike just got a 6.1 over the weekend..they have forged cranks also, you can Google it
actually, I'd like to see a 6.4 done, and see if all the internet talk about how they are made of glass with boost is right!
Would like to see it again again would also like to see the newer 2012 and up heads , the ports are a lot larger than the early hemi ,great job really enjoyed this video
Your spot on for next time. Can't wait. I've always been curious on the stock block strength. I'd like to see the older sb mopar in a big bang setup but with a forged piston, forged crank, and good set of rods with some arps and maybe even some nitrous after the turbo tests..
Always here $600 is the limit
Good videos. Do you plan on doing any eagle hemis? Or compare the non eagle vs eagle vs 6.1
Awesome video! I’ve heard over and over 7 lbs or it explodes a piston blah blah. I’ll point the 7 lb cult to this video for some lessons.
It will if you don't pull it out and gap the rings and reinstall...
I'll go one further the reason the secondary ring land failed is that it had to much back pressure on it ( like having cats boosted often does to stock cast pistons), that's why he lamented not having back pressure readings on it because he knows that probably caused the failure to much thru that hot side...
The end gap problems of the stock hemi making it unable to hold the power of its competitors, is aggrevated by the thin crown area putting more heat to the top ring and lowers the stock boost you can safely run...its also why he opened them up to .030-.032 vs the standard .028 he usually does....
Its not a bad design its a bad design for boost as it comes is all....its actually a long wearing good NA design....
amazing work and video Richard, you basically tripled the O.E.M. power output ratings on this engine for a 2006 model year, my nephew has had 3 of these in Chrysler 300's AWD ,and they are strong engines, the only thing that makes them weak is lack of maintenance and abuse, he put over 200k miles on each car and always got great fuel economy with the cylinder deactivation system, there's no more wrong with this engine them Ford or Chevy have with their competing engines, 5.3 GM or 5.0 Fords have problems to look forward to the future videos of this Hemi 😎
love it!! electronic boost controller for sure to limit boost at low rpm. let it eat above 5500 like the turbo ls guys are doing to help them live. 18° seems pretty aggressive on timing. i see guys hitting big numbers keeping them even a bit less than the turbo ls guys. 12-13° i see them at...I guess it all depends on the fuel type and the engine comp ratio and combo. if it is still picking up decent horsepower per degree of timing I guess it’s not too much.
I’d really love to see this test done again with the new found knowledge.
Buick 3.8 series 2 turbo build ! Have a great weekend !
That would be cool. An 80-84 Buick 4.1L v6 (usually in the LeSabres) would also be cool to see under boost, especially if the oiling system was worked over. I'd love to see what a turbo 4.1 could do.
@Daver G 120hp was bone stock with computer control. It is capable of more. I had the Edelbrock package on this engine, and it did well but the oiling system was weak and would be especially hard on cam bearings. There are certainly an infinite number of better price to performance options. But it would still be neat to see one put to its limits.
@@mamayl8592 i have a production 4.1 and a stage 1
4.1 for my turbo t car is just like the grand national
Have made over 1k with just a change of piston/rod. Series 2 3800 are stout. Check out my vids. Cannot mistake the 3800 sound lol.
The Buick Big Bang is what I’m most excited about. I just hope Richard puts a stupid big turbine on it. Like we just saw on this video, back pressure is what kills motors. That PTE76/75 is a great daily driver 1000hp turbo (for a zillion dollars), but it was a really poor choice for a 500hp NA Hemi.
Thanks for showing the hemi some love! Great video
i think "What will it make, and more importantly, what can it take?" is a Holdenerism if ever I saw one.
Kool test Richard, I would really like to see this test revisited with all the stars and Moon in alignment..
With just a little detonation on a stock cast piston, that's where I always see them break. The top ring takes the hit and pushes down on the land below it and the land cracks. The crown cracks when the ring butts. :)
That was a big surprise, goes to show the 5.7 don right can achieve some big numbers without going to the extreme
Richard, 2009+ 5.7 engine had a few changes from the 2003-2008 5.7 biggest change was going from a 9.6:1 compression ratio to a 10.5:1 compression ratio with a design change to the pistons both in metallurgy and ring land positioning (top ring even closer to the face of the piston) I suspect these changes could have a significant impact on the durability of this build and possibly why you were so successful in the numbers you pulled from it!
Wait teach me lol what you mean
More 6.1 hemi test please!! 😎😎
Yes it’s more dodge stuff, is there gonna be more stuff with the magnum?
I'd love to see this test on the newer eagle headed 5.7 hemi engines with everything stock. The idea of pulling a known issue from an engine, in the form of the factory pistons and filing the rings before reinstalling the stock pistons, seems kind of crazy.
the rings are the first problem
I hear the pre eagles have better compression for boost tho
Love to see an updated run, got me looking at my rebuild block in a new light.
8:30 YES! This time with street gas though.
Well, you know we definitely need to see this again. Please.
MOAR MOPAR! I always believed these hemis were decent engines despite people talking shit about them. Sure , they have the lifter failure issue (Hemi tick), but LSs aren't immune to it either, although at least they dont end up with wiped cam. But at least you can prevent that (with either engine) with a nice set of lifters from comp or lunati.
I think we might start seeing an increase of Hemi swaps as people realize they're more reliable than internet makes it look. I know I've got a few ideas..
Richard, great job! I'd still like you to stay with EFI and SRT intake in the next round, but with electronic boost control you can just limit torque in the lower rpms and ramp it up up top.
Stage 6 Motorsports here in Jax, FL has built SRT8 Hemi's over 1,000 horsepower for a while now. Very impressive numbers for the 5.7 :-)
UA-cam LSX Challenger.
UA-cam LS RAM.
There was a very nice SRT 8 LS swap at LS fest. He said the hemi just couldn't handle the boost so he LS swapped it..
i'd love to see this done again with the later style heads
My 19 ram classic trembles in fear when i watch your videos it knows what i want to do to and with it lol
The intro music reminds me when you walk through a club in an fps games. I like it.
Can't wait to see the 6.1 powder rods and a 6.1 crank with 5.7 fordged piston! Go bud go! I want to see the dyno video also see that thing spool those twins up!
I’d like to see a Big Bang on a stock block/crank with one of forged piston “drop in” kits that are available for the Gen 3. My reasoning is that it’s the middle ground between the low-buck ‘open the ring gaps and pray’ approach and the high-dollar full custom rebuild approach. I also think it’s the way the average Hemi swapping guy would set out to seriously compete with the LS swapping guys. It’s also the way a guy with a modern Charger, Challenger, or Grand Cherokee who wants to hang an aftermarket supercharger and develop more than 8 PSI would go.
If it was me....
A bigger single turbo ( 88mm to 90mm )
A variable geometry turbine side: DPS Turbonator ( goes from .45 to 1.45 )
Alcohol ( E100 or methanol )
A hotter cam to push the torque peak to 5000 rpms or more
An Edelbrock Intake or single plane Chrysler intake ( kill the bottom and mid range torque.....save the rods and pistons)
Those are crazy numbers! Man, very cool test idea and video! Thanks for this!
I'd like to see built big bang shoot out. Forged pistons and rods and hopefully make over 2000HP
Either big single or large twins and run on pure meth
Hold on there, bud. Not in this economy. 😂 with these fuel prices we'd be lucky to get away with 100bhp. 😂
Great video ! I love it when the internet engineers are proven wrong :)
I wouldn't even bother with a head upgrade other than some valve springs. Ring gap new rings and boost 😉👍😁
The big question isn't what CAN it make, but how many times can it make that monster power???
With anything even fully built this is always the question
Can we do this for a stock short block first gen SBC? Get a junk 350, put some economy edelebrock heads, intake, cam and boost referenced holley, single chyna turbo and see what we can learn!
Love the channel
Would love to see this, specifically a vortec motor and see just how much she can take
Toss a cheap shelf piston in er
More cam and let it sing
Or cry
That would sort of defeat the entire point of a SBE Big Bang. That being said, not sure there is another way to give that motor the .600 lift cam it deserves
@@bryanleverett2830 ... I did some research on the cfm airflow specs of those early 2003 - '08 Gen3 Hemi heads... there was only a 1 cfm difference in flow from .500 to .600 valve lift... I honestly don't think a .600 lift cam is really needed (if the heads are 100% stock / non-ported)...or would that 1 cfm gain really help, idk???
I love turbocharging. I have a 2001 Cherokee 4.0 with a mild comp cam, Edelbrock head, a modified '96 intake, air to water intercooler and headers. I ran up to 12psi in it on 93 octane fuel. Even with 35" tires and 4.10 gears it pulls like freight train. I estimate it is 470 ft lbs and 425 hp at peak right now. I am thinking about going with a bigger precision turbo just so I am not near the limit of the turbo.
Dammmn nice!!👌
I bet your more than that. Just an assumption but 12psi on a 4L anything should be more than 400+ horsepower. With all the aftermarket top end parts to boot
I love it. Been waiting a long time for this video. Please redo it the "correct" way.
Gap and a dual Torqstorm kit! Centrifugal keeps the bottom end torque manageable.
Awesome info! Thanks Richard! I just bought an 06 Chrysler 300c back in March and my plan for down the road is twin turbos. So perfect info right up my alley! Thanks again! I wonder how the Holley sniper intake would fair? That’s the one I got my eyes on
As always thumps up and all ads watched for the support
Keep it up
It’s so awesome how much information u give us! Thank U!!
Richard,,my hero ive been waiting to see a 5.7 video that is killer you have to do it yhe right way i am very curious of the little 5.7 now in my 93 dakota make it right and redo very soon like yesterday... LOVE IT
That manifold seems to be tuned nicely to the engine just like the LS3 intake.
FYI, it’s fun to actually see the dyno run. Thanks for having the hemi as your G-pig.
Excellent engineering, I love nerding out with Richards vids...
He reminds me a little of Whily E Coyote rummaging through a junkyard to build a dragster to catch the roadrunner! 😁
Really interesting channel
Great experiments
Thanks! 😊
"It was definitely done wanting to be turbocharged" LOL An instant classic quote. :D
Since you are pulling the engine apart to add ring gap anyway, might as well spend money on a good set of forged pistons and stronger connecting rods. Then it won't be necessary to pull the engine apart after every 8 runs to replace a piston, or to junk the whole thing because a rod broke.
thanks for hemi stuff
The torque peak is very high rpm..the heads and cam must’ve been flowing amazing that thing would probably really make some amazing numbers up around 7000 RPM or more. something must have been holding it back.. turbo or back pressure.
Secondary ring lands break when there is high back pressure like a cat or in this case turbo hostile
Truly that is a great engine. Now what would you expect from it with forged pistons, connecting rods; lowered compression to around 9.5:1 BUT a boost level over 30 PSI. Just curious lol.
Hemi's are happiest with boost, it's a natural.
Hey, all engines are happier with boost
these vids are great keep up the good work, i have a little 73 valiant 4 door that might get a gen3 hemi. this is very inspiring
We need this test on a 392 please
those dual plug engines need very little spark advance, so 18 degrees seems like a lot, at that boost/IATs.
Turbos because of drive pressure are easier on bottom ends as long as there’s not pre ignition or detonation. Drive pressure acts like a shock on the intake exhaust stroke as the piston turns the corner at TDC. A blown alky pro mod hemi needs the pan pulled and new rod bearings every run. The same hemi with 2 hair dryers go 20-30 runs with out ever having to pull the oil pan.
One thing often over looked with forced induction set ups is the fact that you need more seat pressure on the intake valve. You need to find the square area of the back of the intake valve. Take the area and multiply it by boost. Take that number and subtract that from your seat pressure @ installed height. Boost works against that intake spring most people over look that just like ring gap
Most important part is that holley stand alone. Factory pcm's suck for controlling much of anything except the stock motor with bolt ons.
Hey Rich. You should do the GM 8.1!
I'm really impressed with the gains at 11.8 psi boost. Definitely a good design in regards to HP potential.
I do wonder what the factory did to alleviate this problem in the factory supercharged hemis.
Maybe this should be the next big bang engine!
@Brett Anderson ...those 6.2 supercharged Hemi engines have stronger bottom ends stock from the factory, compared to a stock 5.7 bottom end
like to see how well 392 with its factory piston, could hold up. 09 and up 5.7 would be cool to see with factory eagle heads too
I gotta be honest IV been very lucky at finding easy power in all the 90s to now mopar stuff even the 2.0 sohc inline 4 was pretty cake to get 250hp out of na and the power techs that seats fall out of also I had a 4.7 that was awesome with a headers, ported heads, cam, intake, and a tune. don't think it ever went on the dyno but it went sideways awesome in my dakota. Great vid man would love to see one of the over head cam motors big banged put a few together but nothing fun. Although they look like they could be.
We need a bigger bang series with rods and pistons and maybe cranks till we find out where the blocks give it up. :-) From what I hear the ls blocks get pretty unreliable to cracking in the cylinders over 1500hp of course that is a street life value not a one time hit dyno pull. Maybe make 10 pulls at each 100hp to see how long they go. Going to get lots of console time! How many pulls can you usually get in in a day?
great stuff man. ill be watching alot of your videos before i finally figure out how to boost my 1500 5.7 magnum.
I know you’ve done a lot more of this kind of thing than I have, but I’d still like to throw in my $.02. I believe your piston failed due to end gap. In one of the projects my buddy and I have done here, we weren’t 100% positive on piston material (possibly hypereutectic, possibly cast), so we went with a huge ring gap (.038” top, .040” second) in a stock bottom end 302 and proceeded to beat the shit out of it. On a less than optimal tune, the little engine that we call The Expendable saw several 1/8 mile passes on 15psi and hundreds of miles of street driving. There wasn’t, at that end gap, even noticeable oil consumption. The engine is currently in my buddy’s car and still going strong.
thnx-.032 has worked at 1500+ hp on the LS and others
True, I have a 352 cube 8.2 deck Ford that’s built to go to about 1,500hp, and it’s gapped at .032”. That said, we’re also running 2618 alloy pistons in it. Where our other engine is possibly running hypereutectic pistons (‘94-‘95 Mustang bottom end), the piston absorbs basically no combustion heat, sending all of it to the rings. That was my only line of thought on it. At any rate, if you keep making these videos, I’ll keep watching them. Also, thanks for replying.
I think, eagle heads, big injectors, and a turbo with bigger hot side to spool higher in the rpm’s.
Man. I'd donate my Hemi too get built lol. 125,765 miles on it. But it runs completely silent it's in such good condition.
Mane a better piston(forged) with more compression and definitely a much better rod with twin turbos. Experiment some with larger camshafts? Change oil pump to one from a hellcat? Great test as always you make us think about possibilities. Thanks for your videos.