00:00 Intro 01:59 Damien-WA | How To Confront Religious Family Members About Unwanted "Loving Gestures" 12:17 Jay-IA | Why Do Atheists Need To Tell People God Isn't Real All The Time 30:55 Bear-WA | The Only Proof You Need Is The Proof In Bear's Life 44:21 "Genetics: A Conceptual Approach" - Benjamin A. Pierce 48:15 Eric-WI | God Doesn't Send You To Hell, You Send Yourselves (A Sequel) 1:04:36 Nikol-(AM) | Is The Bible A Good Source Of Advice For Successful Marriages 1:25:44 Teo-HR | Its Ridiculous That People Judge You For Not Having Read The Bible 1:31:04 Outro
For those interested the other book he was talking about at around the 30 min mark, it was likely 'Anthropology: What Does it Mean to Be Human?' by Robert Lavenda and Emily Schultz.
Soooo...Nikol is gay. I don't have to explain that for the straighties, right? It's pretty clear. No? Okay. He grew up religious, didn't examine his sexual urges, and had unenthusiastic sex with a woman or two. He's obvi Armenian Orthodox and is looking to see if he can rationalize Atheism in order to rationalize leaving the church, in order to rationalize divorce... ...in order to rationalize recreational Amyl Nitrate use, $300 silver cock rings, and silicon-based lube.
@@privatejoker5062 the part where he was giving legitimate advice to someone??? Advice that amounts to: 'don't take shit from people and stand up for yourself' You're a real moron, aren't you???
@@freemind222 Exactly, Forrest doesn’t lose his temper anywhere near as fast as Matt, instead he argues his points intellectually with few or no f***s😂 Not to say I didn’t enjoy Matt’s episodes😎
@@TBomb39 it's not about the hate, but rather about the inability to _THINK._ The "wife in the garage" example is a PERFECT analogy, but he simply couldn't see it. It may as well have been in Swahili. Then there were moments where it ALMOST got through... There was a pregnant pause... .... .... .... .... then his brain rebooted, and he started back at the beginning.
You reminds me of my mom. He had a crisis a few months ago when she realized believer then Heaven can't be there and all that if I'm not there with her but she managed to write up basically every criticism I managed to offer. It's theological abuse is what it is
Likewise. I found forest seperately from this. When I found out he did this too, I cannot describe the joy. I stopped watching because it was the same arguments all the time, defended on both sides in almost the same way almost every time. But his evolutionary education and career makes a massive impact on many callers and arguments in general
UA-cam decided to show me videos from "the atheist experience" channel only recently, and since it did, I subscribed to the channel and watch every video Forrest is in.
Forrest Valkai is a public intellectual, and has clearly become, one of the most important public political voices on the Internet. I hope this brave young global citizen, continues unimpeded with this very important work. It has taken many centuries for Modern, Science Based Civilization to evolve, and become the dominant force for good in the world. But this battle for rationality, is long not over. We who are the defenders of reason, sobriety, and scientific truth, must continue to fight against the Dark Forces of Superstition! We should give encouragement those among us, who are fed up with all this dangerous religious BS, to stand their intellectual ground, and hone their dialogue skills.
Woke the way I hear the term being used is tossed at people who are obsessed with immutable characteristics like race and gender, and uninterested in content of character. It’s a worldview that is focused on group power dynamics and pushing forth an oppressor/oppressed narrative at every turn, even where it doesn’t exist. It looks at any disparity in any 2 “groups” and asserts that the disparity IS bc of discrimination and not bc of different competencies, interests, etc. It’s not for me. I wanna live in a world where what you do and what you value are what matters and where skin color and gender are totally uninteresting, but in 2023, that’s just a sign of my privilege according to the woke
@@AbleAnderson "...I wanna live in a world where what you do and what you value are what matters and where skin color and gender are totally uninteresting..." The "woke" would love to live in that world too -- it's the whole goal. Their point is we're not there yet. If you really, honestly believe that's the world right now, you haven't been paying attention.
@@AbleAndersonthen you don't understand what woke actually is but only the pejorative sense in which the right uses it in order to try and discredit awareness of and sensitivity to the predicaments of the most vulnerable members of society.
Forrest, Christy, great job. Forrest you are filling Matt's shoes with dignity. I wanted to compliment you both on your ability to control the conversation in difficult situations. I observed that you didn't let a particularly aggressive caller talk over you and it was done masterfully. This keeps the show on the rails.
I agree with both comments. To tell you the truth pretty sure Matt is more knowledgable on theism and also be extremely direct when someone is being immoral or unable to reason on a basic level. Forrest is certainly excellent, but lacks that putting theists in their place aspect.
@@hankkingsley9183 I agree that Matt is the best when talking purely about biblical things but these two are right up there and bring more into the conversations like the biology and psychology involved with certain callers.
52:00: My response: Your honor, my client, the defendant can be seen in the camera footage giving the victim the choice to either hand over all of her money or be shot to death. The victim clearly chose death which should absolve my client of any wrong doing. NAILED IT!
Couldn’t agree more. Forrest is a huge asset to this show and the quality just went way up. It’s so much more effective to use logic, reason, and respect rather than insults (like we used to hear on this channel). You’re awesome too Christy!
Bear, what a freaking enjoyable conversation. Genuinely asking question to learn and inquire out of a place of thoughtfulness. Especially after the previous "woke" @-hole.
Christy and Forrest what a great job handling the difficult calls. You are very respectful and at the same time you don’t take any bs! Bear - you sound like an honest and open mined person, it was a pleasure to listen to your conversation. Good like to your journey!
I used to excuse Hell and God sending people there by saying, 'he doesn't 'send' people to hell. It's just that if someone rejects him, then he just doesn't bring them into heaven and they are vulnerable to the devil and demons who then drag them into hell.' I even used to think it was a beautiful thought that my Father in heaven loved me so much, even with all my flaws, that he created me anyway, knowing I might fail him or reject him (and end up in hell). I took it on myself to try and not disappoint God because he really wants me to join him in heaven and it's all on me if i make it. Then I became I mother. And the whole idea of God being an all loving parent fell apart. If my child ends up rejecting me and everything I believe and hold dear, but then one day is standing outside my door completely defenseless, and leaving her outside would result in her being dragged away and tortured, I'm going to go usher her into where it's safe. Especially if her only 'mistake' was living her own life. She never hurt anyone, she was kind and good, maybe made some mistakes, but she just decided to live apart from me. No way I'm gonna let her be dragged away and tortured. FOREVER! And especially if I specifically wanted her to have the choice to live apart from me. And if having me in her life was so important, I'd make sure i was present, helping and supporting her in tangible ways. I sure wouldn't stand by, watch her suffer, have other people assure her that i love her from a distance, and then be upset she didn't choose me. I was told all my life that God loved me even more than i can imagine. And i loved the idea of an all living Father, especially after being ignored and mistreated by my earthly father and step dad. But looking at God, parent to parent... Nope. I am more loving, and forgiving then the God I was presented with. Even more so than the god presented in the Bible. So if there is a God worthy of love and worship because He is good and loving, and not just because he is all powerful and we have to love him or suffer for an eternity (btw, any other character like that presented by a different religion or text would be a monster), then hell doesn't exist. Because no loving parent or decent being would send their children or anyone to be tortured forever. So, I won't live my life in fear of going to hell, because I can't worship a god who condones the sort of hell I was taught to believe. And either hell doesn't exist, so no reason to fear it, or it does and I'm going regardless because I can't fool God into thinking I'm ok with it and love him and think he's worthy of worship when I actually believe that version of God is monstrous. So why suffer from guilt, shame, fear, and hurt others by telling them their wicked and hellbound, missing out on the joys of life, humanity, and community, in either of those scenarios?
As a mother, I completely understand your view. My children have had some hard times (all good now) and I would never reject them, or stop loving them. A god who condones this is not worth knowing or worshipping.
Being a good parent can change the way a person thinks. If a god sends someone to be tortured, he is evil. He created the torture and the rules and makes the decision. Only mental gymnastics can paint this differently.
Being "woke" has sod all to do with atheism. Forrest and Christy tried to explain to the caller that there are all types of atheists: Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, etc. We only agree on one constant, that is not being convinced of the existence of gods. We're free to disagree on many issues, as the comments will demonstrate.
Any person, who can bring a good argument, in this war against Religious Idiocy, is a friend of mine, and I especially want to encourage the younger generation to stand their ground on this subject! This is not flattery, it is recognition, and encouragement, on a very serious social matter.
I’m endlessly impressed by Forrest. Every time I listen to a show with him I come away with more knowledge and the reasons for the knowledge. Just incredible. Thank you AXP for “hiring” this guy 😊 Christy is fabulous as well. I love the way they speak and puts words together so succinctly. Beautiful job to the both of them!
The call with Jay was (chefs kiss) perfect. Guy came to pick an stupid, ignorant, pointless fight and got shut down in the nicest way. They kept him in line.
They failed horrible in my opinion, they basically just said google it. Its in complete opposition to what he believed so it was relevant to the topic.
Proud to be a non woke atheist. He’s totally right, wokism is equally absurd as religion. I often wonder how they talk down to religious people, whilst supporting child genital mutilation. ‘Oh you think you’re a girl Timmy? Let’s get that penis problem taken care of.’
@@_Omega_Weapon I presume I believe many things that would be considered "woke" - I still don't know what the hell this boogeyman term is supposed to mean, or the concept of "respecting and empathizing with people as a default position" as being a negative.
@@cvanunen how do you think "woke" is an insult, or even a bad thing?? Honestly? It literally means that I'm "awake", I'm paying attention, that in aware of the issues. 👈 How is that a bad thing? 🤷🏻♂️
I felt like Christy and Forrest were dancing together - that is, they were in lovely synchronization in their use of logic and their concern with the mental states of their callers.
Nikol - "Men aren't emotional" is one of the biggest lies of the patriarchy. War isn't logical. War is waged as an emotional response or because of an emotional stance. Women in abusive relationships might stay because of logical reasons such as financial abuse means she actually doesn't have a means of escape; he's threatened to kill her so staying isn't an emotional choice, it's literally survival. And as for the bible and marriage, it condones rape in marriage, women as property without a voice in marriage, etc. It tells men if a woman doesn't want to marry you, just rape her and her father has to sell her at a discounted price and you'll be allowed to rape her any time you want. The bible is a horrible book.
I agree too, but he also went on and said men can be equally locked into an abusive relationship just as women are. Psychology, statistics, evidence is fully against this view. Women receive more abuse in relationships, and at work, moreso than men. This is also well known. This is not to summize men and women are different, only that our hundreds (and thousands) of years of a mans world (or a white man's world) is still taking time and effort to remove from society, and religions are not only not helping with that, they are going backwards! This also forms part of my frustration that _some_ women argue in favor of religion (say Christainity). Are they nuts? If Christainity were truly in power, there'd be claimed witches being burned in town square every Sunday. Women Christains, or to be really blunt, black women Christains is an oxymoron.
Yup. Men are extremely emotional. Anger, lust, jealousy, greed, contempt, hate, disgust are all emotions that men throughout history have expressed in spades to the point of dangerous and deadly hysteria. Hence we see thr majority of violent crimes are committed by men. It baffles me when people say men aren't emotional and are not permitted in society to express emotions when we see them freely express the above emotions in history, entertainment and present day. Men have ALWAYS been allowed to express emotions. But like with women, various cultures only permit specific emotions for each gender.
@@kimsland999 So men are also hormonal and are more prone to be controlled by their hormones so incapable of thinking logically and rationally. Isn't if funny how this is projected on to women for centuries to the extent that it was and is used as a reason to deny women their basic human right to participate fully in society and the economy including leadership roles even if they are fully qualified and earned the position. Yet, as you have pointed out, men are prone to their behaviour being dictated by their hormones. however when this happens with men, it is to the extreme detriment and lives of others. but no one uses this as a reason why men are not suitable for leadership or working outside the home as they do with women. go figure.
@@jaclo3112 This is true, this is the very reason I say to theists: I'll inform you whhat's known to be true, even if I don't like it myself. As likes or dislikes or beliefs or lack of belief, is clearly irrespective to what is true or not. However, in modern era we have learned to control our natural instincts. Such as raping a woman that appeals to the man's interests, we have now stopped. The reason why we stopped natural tendencies is because we worked out its not nice for the victim. We worked out that running from rustling bushes (an excellent safe natural thing to do) means we never learn it was merely the wind. It took a long time, thousands of years, to realize that controlling emotional outbursts such as fear or anger or even acting on impulses wasn't a good idea at all. We grew empathy from small families and expanded it into society. If you help the underprivilidged and weak, then they in turn may help you one day. But its not all about selfishness, its about equality humanitarian needs and well thought out morals and then society laws. Some people can't control their emotions! Or worse, some organizations such as churches say we should only rely upon emotions! So outdated. These days women are able to be hunters, managers, decision makers, voices of reason, even country leaders. These days men can be child carers, cooks (possibly mostly men nowadays) cleaners, home makers. These days both men and women can be equals. But thousands of years ago without these resources available? I'd say the hunter should be the bigger of the two, and the home maker should be the one without hormones going mad! Not any more. You'd think an all knowing claimed God would realize this inevitable conclusion? He must be ignorant.
Man I went to church with my father and enjoyed every moment of time. It’s his world and it’s important to him, and I can’t deny him the support of his son around his society. Be kind to yourself, be kind to your parents.
I am blown away by the number of men that ignored women’s sports for years and who now are so attentive to it and their perceived unfairness of trans participation.
Well, like it or not, it is a point of discussion. I'm not saying people are justified in their emotional conduct in those discussions, but number of people of one sex being interested in the topic shouldn't have a bearing in it.
@@andersandersen6295And I love to see ignorant transphobes make a fool of themselves on a subject they barely understand, much less have cursory knowledge on. Trans boxers have been in the sport for years before the topic became a popular talking point, most boxing champions are cis, boxing is LITERALLY about beating the shit out of your opponent, cis women have done more damage to other cis women than trans boxers have to cis women proportionally to their percentage, and that's not even talking about the damage cis women have done to trans boxers. Contrary to what you might think, assuming you've ever actually thought about this topic outside of the stereotypical, debunked talking points you transphobes like to parrot, there is a process that trans people have to go through if they want to be able to play professional in sports. If you're going to be a bigot, try not to come of as a dumb one, emphasis on try
@@andersandersen6295 You followed women's boxing closely before you decided to make it a transphobic issue? Integrating trans people into sporting competitions is a serious debate that needs careful and sensitive consideration as it affects safety, fairness, etc. Sporting bodies all over the world are grappling with the issue, trying to come up with a solution that is equitable and non-prejudicial to all parties involved. Unfortunately that debate is made immeasurably more difficult because of bigots like you shrieking about things that either a) aren't currently a thing, or b) are exactly the sorts of situations that the sporting bodies are already tying to avoid.
@@maidros85 it does have a bearing on it though. None of these men give a cold turd about women or women's sports. They never watched a game before and honestly they likely still haven't but they see their favorite right wing chuckleheads screeching about it on UA-cam and bring it up over and over again. Nevermind that they have to cherry pick to push this false narrative, it's all just an excuse to engage in some good old Christian love of their fellow man in public discourse. And there's no hate like Christian love.
Teo needs to be next week's bonus for the promotional lmao "I never read the bible, I never plan to, it's just some shitty book..." * audience laughter * "You're the best caller we've had all day"
Forrest to Jay: "You sound like a delightful person..." 🤣🤣🤣 That was SAVAGE! 😅😅😅 Jay, I get a feeling that you are on these comments because your toxic views are mirrored to SO many trolls here who do NOT understand what atheism is. And DEF do NOT understand science! 🙃
Telling a biologist that he goes against biology kind of sums up Jay's entire mindset. He doesnt want to follow the evidence to where it leads. He already has his conclusions and wants to throw out everything that goes against that.
@@jquest99 Yeah. Jay has no idea what "woke" even means but in his mind it has a negative connotation. It's just another way for him to dismiss whatever he doesnt understand and cant be bothered to learn about. Here's a personal incredulity award 🏆 to add to his shelf.
You should show the "you send yourself to hell" guy the meme of jesus talking to someone through a door having this conversation: J: Let me in M: Why? J: So I can save you M: From what? J: From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in
If an open-minded, intellectually curious and critically thinking theist were to read Harari's "Sapiens," then Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and finally Hitchens' "God is Not Great" in that order, it would be difficult to avoid becoming an Atheist. The other direct means would be to simply read the BIble.
I read the Bible. It worked. Went through several other religions before admitting and accepting I was drawn to religions with strong atheist elements and was not likely to find the "something" I was seeking because I was (and am) atheist. (And was tempted by "somethings" feminine, no more of this he big man she little woman he rules she obeys crap.)
My family is half Croatian, so it was SO AWESOME hearing Teo say those things because every time I visit Croatia I feel like an outcast and shamed for having coloured hair, tattoos etc, and they don’t even know that I’m an atheist lol. All of my family there tells me I shouldn’t pierce my nose or change my hair because I’m ruining the body that “god gave me”. Love to hear that not everyone there believes in the bullshit of the bible!
Exactly. My JW grandparents and other family say "The body is a temple ans you've violated it by having a tattoo" ( which I had to hide for 2 years from that part of the family). And yet, they can solo drink a bottle of whiskey and that's perfectly fine. Also I got a tattoo of a YinYan dragon. So that definitely didn't help the situation
@@cylemorton2131 LOL I love that. I know, my grandfather is the worst for telling me that even just painting my nails is ruining the body god gave me, yet he’s been a SEVERE alcoholic his whole life 😂 I’m a hairstylist and he shamed me for that because I’m “breathing in chemicals” and that’s against god, yet he worked as an iron worker in the 60’s-90’s where he was getting led exposure on a daily basis 😂😂 like what ??
I am atheist and disapprove of tattoos and excessive piercings. Wouldn’t shame you for doing it, that’s your choice. I just find it unattractive. I only mention this to share that the view is not necessarily religiously based.
57:52 I've seen this clip on tiktok and I loved it enough that I came on this channel to watch all the shows and calls in their entirety, and by watching them randomly I finally found it, I love you guys and I love the show, thank you for helping me with the religious traumas, it's awsome
28:07 "You guys just don't like truth!" - I only hear these kinds of things from people who are confidently incorrect about a subject and are angry that you don't just take their word and believe what they believe... > It's always the people with a kindergarten understanding of biology who want to tell biologists their wrong... * I also hear "you don't want to know the truth" from conspiracy theorists...
I don't think they are perfectly psychologically correlated. Sometimes people may say those things and have knowledge and reason to justify their claim. Therefore its not all the time, or only _those_ people who say that.
At 32:00 Forrest interrupts to comment that Bear’s story is common. Everyone is thinking this so Forrest is just being a good host. Thanks for being a fair and amiable interlocutor. I find it funny how people say they have “faith” and in the same paragraph say that they are a logical person (Bear). Bear seemed like a nice guy btw so I hope he learns more.
I have a new 'Supervisor' at my work who announced he's just like me, and will place reason above say unstable emotional outbursts. Possibly one of the most industry unsafe person I have ever met, and constantly has emotional outbursts! He's not just like me!
To Bear, or anyone trying to figure out theism or not, watching Forrest Valkie's UA-cam channel actually got me started on my deconstruction journey. I agree just watching Reacteria, where he debunks creationists trying to debunk evolution. But when i started watching, I still thought as a Christian apologist, who had studied biology but believed God was behind it all. But some personal strife, struggling with the harm and hypocrisy I could see Christians causing, inspired me to finally watch his 'ask an atheist day,' that I had been avoiding. He tore apart every Christian apologetic argument I knew, with the Bible. So I then started listening to other exChristians and their journey, mostly on TikTok and UA-cam. I realized i had never actually listened to the other side.
Indeed. Plus it’s not just how smart and knowledgeable he is, it’s also the excellent way he communicates the information to people of different education levels. He’s a million times better at it that 95% of scientists and he’s a breath of fresh air on UA-cam.
I love these conversations. Im personally agnostic and went through an atheist phase but it just wasn’t for me. But I’ll happily accept and give respect to anyone that is. I appreciate ya’ll sticking to the topics, remaining civil, and not allowing straw man arguments. You are both gems in this space and I wish you the best.
Theist: "You choose to go to hell!" Atheist: "Then I choose not to go to hell." Theist: "Waiiiiiit... that's not how that works!" Moving the Goalposts... every single time.
The idea we send ourselves to Hell is one of the stupest ideas out there. If I sent myself to Hell it isn't Hell. Nobody would send themselves to a place like that. If they did they want it and that isn't what Hell is.
Summary of Jay - insulated, uninformed Christian making blanket statements and broad generalizations about people and subjects he doesn't actually know anything about.
This goes to show its possible to not agree with someone, but still listen and respect their opinion. I don't agree with a lot they say, but I thoroughly enjoyed listening to different perspectives. They also hit it out the park on a lot of points as well.
I have come to realize that I am lucky having the type of mother I have. She grew up in the church and still believes whole heartedly. She has accepted that I do not believe and I do not go to any church. I am still treated as a very important part of the family. I feel sadness that so many are treated as outcasts. Forrest and Christy are super for working to see that people are pointed to the help they need.
Does she believe in claimed Christain Hell for your supposed Jesus sins? If so, then your MOTHER is all ok with 100% believing you'll be burned for eternity! Um, that's not loving. I don't believe that of you, nor do I believe that you are annihilated and your Mom won't be! I have had many conversations with Christains who state they don't believe in Christain Hell. I say: That's wondeful news because I can't wait to be in heaven and cast that monster Jesus out. All Of A Sudden, they DO believe in Christain Hell (?) Sometimes they even say I'm an evil (supernatural) wicked witch. I find that very confusing, I thought they were being like loving parents, but they definitely aren't. Hey I wonder what your Mom would say about me (and YOU).
@@kimsland999 She may or may not, I do not know as she never says anything about it to me. I have not been disowned or excluded from her life. She treats just the same as she did before I told her I didn't believe in her holy book and that it is just book of fairytales. My sister has not been as kind, nor have my sisters in law. From what I have seen of others, I have a rare mother as most seem to act like my sisters.
@@rabbakahn I find it somewhat of an oxymoron to be a female Christain! If Christainity was the real law then the church would have girls not in school after 12, next to zero rights for women, and highly likely (I'd say guaranteed) claim witches being burned in town square every single Sunday! I find female Christains to be in spite of the entire women's liberation movement of the 50s (and clearly before that, of that woman who threw herself in front of a horse to publicly address that women should be allowed to equally vote). For Christain women to practice and believe in this scary Father nonsense, they are both backward, uneducated and naive, generally placing their misplaced love and irrational fears as a method to determine truth! I said to my daughter when she was young, try your best to avoid falling in love with Christain practicing or evangelical Christain men, otherwise you'll have to 'obey' their demands! The Christain claimed God decided not to be in the image of a woman, this outdated absurd belief does not have women or equality of the sexes in hand, if anything it's the openly spoken opposite to that. My daughter agreed, and is now an adult Psychologist, so pretty sure our discussions on the horror of theism worked.
When people threaten me with the possibility of hellfire, I ask them - What if there really is a god and she prefers skeptics over groveling sycophants?
What cracks me up about christians is that they tell you we are inherently sinful people, evil, broken, and that if we don't believe in christ, if we don't follow the bible, etc, we are going to hell. But at the same time they tell you that jesus already paid for your sins. I mean, if he already paid for my sins, then no matter how much i sin, i'm forgiven, right? And if i'm not, then wasn't his sacrifice useless? No matter how you look at it, it makes no sense.
@Ben James That's the thing: they're all wrong. To me they're all stupid. But at least islam doesn't have that contradiction between old and new testament i was talking about, that christianity has. I mean theoretically, since jesus paid for our sins, no matter what we do or don't do, we should all be saved once and for all, but we aren't. We still have to believe in him, follow the bible and all that crap, otherwise we're domed. That's even more nonsense.
Forrest is correct when he told Jay that the left leaning in the USA s generally centre - right for most western countries such as Australia and New Zealand. Your Democrats would be considered right wing here in NZ. We took a Pew Research quiz and whilst I’m a centre right voter here I came out as a moderate Democrat. Your Republicans in NZ would be off the charts completely.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 but we CAN and DO have other parties if we aren't getting listened to. Have an election where Greens do well, and all of a sudden the country gets a refreshing dose of caring for the planet and each other signed into law, ignore the bigots too much and Pauline picks up seats. 👈 We CAN have a Parliament that is responsive to the people, unlike the USA.
This was a great episode. Awesome hosts with great chemistry who handled calls especially well. While it might be seen as mundane, I loved Teo's call. Im so glad that we can connect with atheists around the globe.
With all due respect fuck them, I dissociated from those people in my own family and I have never been happier without them in my life. Unfortunately they can't say the same thing.
Poor Jay! He's so close-minded that he can't hear the hosts' words. I hope he takes the time to think deeper about the topics he brought up. All his 'attack dog' mentality does is shut conversations down.
Aron is amazing and very well spoken and just to clarify, I don't think he has any relative academic credentials. He's incredibly insightful and well informed.
Damien-WA - Best advice - Say you don't believe, but you refuse to debate - Be firm - say you are only willing to discuss ways that believers and non-believers can find common ground and goals. Just keep changing the subject if people try to preach.
Common goals; love others, even those who are unlovable. Forgive others, even when they hurt you.. Be kind and merciful, patient and understanding, go the extra mile, be humble and generous. Be just and fair, honest and full of integrity.
The women’s sport thing would almost be an actual valid point, were it not for the fact that the same people who now spread it spent the last 20 years making fun of the WNBA
Damien had a great question. I've been fortunate in that I haven't had a negative experience with my family. I think Forrest is right when he says you need to remember where your family is coming from. Intention is very important.
@@Spiritof_76 I can't speak for @acf kelly and it would be unrealistic to sum up political beliefs in a single sentence, but personally, I think that government is a tool that ought to be used cautiously. I do not believe for one second in the ridiculous fantasy that everything wrong with industry would self-correct if we repealed all the laws or that boycotting by itself is an effective means of holding corporations responsible. I think that crowdsourcing certain things, like school lunches, is a noble endeavor worth paying into, but I'm skeptical of paying taxes to the U.S. federal government and its 50 states because my taxes tend to ultimately pay for a single cheese sandwich to be shared by a dozen children in my community and a missile that kills a dozen more children somewhere else.
This show illustrates, over and over again, that even highly intelligent people can fall prey to religious indoctrination , and adopt completely irrational ideas.
Society has been made to reward their no sense (nonsense) beliefs. It comes down to, would you prefer to be ignorant and happy, or actually be aware of reality? Many people elect ignorance and gullibility. The problem with this 'happy life' (argumentive really) is that they could accidentally hurt themselves (or worse) at any moment. Jesus doesn't _really_ have the wheel.
This was an amazing episode! I really was skeptical at first because Matt wasn't the host, but this was a refreshing change, and frankly both presenters were more tolerant than Matt.
This is one of the best AE I've watched so far! You two are great together. Really enjoyed the dynamic and the way you both interact with each other and the guest callers. Please do this again....
Sometimes I do tend to chuckle a bit. I mean they are being funny. Lets say you went past a table and the people were saying: Tinkerbell please give us guidance and throw fairy dust upon us. You wouldn't laugh? Anyway that's how I hear their nonsense.
Thanks for the call Bear. Great to hear informative and genuine conversations between those with atheist and theistic prospectives. You were this week’s anti-Jay.
Cmon bud are you really saying a movement of people asking for equality,logic and reason in a modern age can compare to with a system of oppression that's lasted for centuries and ongoing It doesn't and that's you downplaying it to compare it
00:00 Intro
01:59 Damien-WA | How To Confront Religious Family Members About Unwanted "Loving Gestures"
12:17 Jay-IA | Why Do Atheists Need To Tell People God Isn't Real All The Time
30:55 Bear-WA | The Only Proof You Need Is The Proof In Bear's Life
44:21 "Genetics: A Conceptual Approach" - Benjamin A. Pierce
48:15 Eric-WI | God Doesn't Send You To Hell, You Send Yourselves (A Sequel)
1:04:36 Nikol-(AM) | Is The Bible A Good Source Of Advice For Successful Marriages
1:25:44 Teo-HR | Its Ridiculous That People Judge You For Not Having Read The Bible
1:31:04 Outro
Thank-You Time Stamp Person/s 🥰
For those interested the other book he was talking about at around the 30 min mark, it was likely 'Anthropology: What Does it Mean to Be Human?' by Robert Lavenda and Emily Schultz.
Soooo...Nikol is gay. I don't have to explain that for the straighties, right? It's pretty clear. No? Okay.
He grew up religious, didn't examine his sexual urges, and had unenthusiastic sex with a woman or two. He's obvi Armenian Orthodox and is looking to see if he can rationalize Atheism in order to rationalize leaving the church, in order to rationalize divorce...
...in order to rationalize recreational Amyl Nitrate use, $300 silver cock rings, and silicon-based lube.
4:37 - 5:11 Forrest plays the victim
@@privatejoker5062 the part where he was giving legitimate advice to someone??? Advice that amounts to: 'don't take shit from people and stand up for yourself'
You're a real moron, aren't you???
I must say, Forrest has really filled the hole left by Matt on AxP. He's great..
My hole is definitely filled by him
He’s definitely good, but he’s no Matt
@@freemind222 Exactly, Forrest doesn’t lose his temper anywhere near as fast as Matt, instead he argues his points intellectually with few or no f***s😂 Not to say I didn’t enjoy Matt’s episodes😎
@@freemind222 Such an odd thing to say…
The "you send yourself to hell" guy... I feel SO SORRY for what his parents have done to him! It's so sad!
That mentally is just exceptionally fallacious under his own model.
The cycle of hate continues.
@@TBomb39 it's not about the hate, but rather about the inability to _THINK._ The "wife in the garage" example is a PERFECT analogy, but he simply couldn't see it. It may as well have been in Swahili.
Then there were moments where it ALMOST got through... There was a pregnant pause... .... .... .... .... then his brain rebooted, and he started back at the beginning.
He does not know love.
He is N'Amor.
You reminds me of my mom. He had a crisis a few months ago when she realized believer then Heaven can't be there and all that if I'm not there with her but she managed to write up basically every criticism I managed to offer. It's theological abuse is what it is
"You have the woke stuff and we have Jesus"
Wow. Just... wow.
I have none of those two things.
@@andersandersen6295 I have both!
@@mil401 Ha! Yeah that's a good point, that there should be a ton of overlap between the two either way. Jay was so far from an honest interlocutor.
@@bh2291 Thats a great idea. Lets start with white supremacy, Jim Crow and the KKK - that would be a Democratic party thing.
He just called to offend as many people as possible.
I can't say I watch every episode but I watch every episode that Forrest is on 😁
Yup, me too ^^
Same!!
Likewise. I found forest seperately from this. When I found out he did this too, I cannot describe the joy. I stopped watching because it was the same arguments all the time, defended on both sides in almost the same way almost every time. But his evolutionary education and career makes a massive impact on many callers and arguments in general
UA-cam decided to show me videos from "the atheist experience" channel only recently, and since it did, I subscribed to the channel and watch every video Forrest is in.
Same! He’s so patient, kind, and hilarious, while also being extremely informative.
Forrest Valkai is a public intellectual, and has clearly become, one of the most important public political voices on the Internet. I hope this brave young global citizen, continues unimpeded with this very important work.
It has taken many centuries for Modern, Science Based Civilization to evolve, and become the dominant force for good in the world. But this battle for rationality, is long not over. We who are the defenders of reason, sobriety, and scientific truth, must continue to fight against the Dark Forces of Superstition! We should give encouragement those among us, who are fed up with all this dangerous religious BS, to stand their intellectual ground, and hone their dialogue skills.
Right there with you 👍
He needs to drop the fake DJ voice.
Political as so far as what?
@@LucyFurh How about public, as on the World Wide Web, AKA, INTERNET.
@@r0ky_M what? I like it!
Not long ago I was told I was WOKE. I said thank you. That means I am alert, aware and informed. That can only be a good thing!
As opposed to being asleep. I fail to see the insult, just like Beegee.
Woke the way I hear the term being used is tossed at people who are obsessed with immutable characteristics like race and gender, and uninterested in content of character. It’s a worldview that is focused on group power dynamics and pushing forth an oppressor/oppressed narrative at every turn, even where it doesn’t exist. It looks at any disparity in any 2 “groups” and asserts that the disparity IS bc of discrimination and not bc of different competencies, interests, etc. It’s not for me. I wanna live in a world where what you do and what you value are what matters and where skin color and gender are totally uninteresting, but in 2023, that’s just a sign of my privilege according to the woke
@@AbleAnderson "...I wanna live in a world where what you do and what you value are what matters and where skin color and gender are totally uninteresting..."
The "woke" would love to live in that world too -- it's the whole goal. Their point is we're not there yet. If you really, honestly believe that's the world right now, you haven't been paying attention.
Me too! If I could be more woke, I would be.
@@AbleAndersonthen you don't understand what woke actually is but only the pejorative sense in which the right uses it in order to try and discredit awareness of and sensitivity to the predicaments of the most vulnerable members of society.
Sometimes I don’t think I’m all that bright. Then I hear the callers on shows like this and I feel much better.
fucking exactly how I feel
Holy shit, first time I’m hearing Christy, awesome job my friend. Another job well done Forrest. Have a great week my fellow heathens.
quite, but he made the mistake of using logic while speaking to uneducated christians, Eric's a perfect example
Forrest, Christy, great job. Forrest you are filling Matt's shoes with dignity. I wanted to compliment you both on your ability to control the conversation in difficult situations. I observed that you didn't let a particularly aggressive caller talk over you and it was done masterfully. This keeps the show on the rails.
I like Forrest just fine but Matt runs circles around any other host/co-host on the show
I agree with both comments. To tell you the truth pretty sure Matt is more knowledgable on theism and also be extremely direct when someone is being immoral or unable to reason on a basic level.
Forrest is certainly excellent, but lacks that putting theists in their place aspect.
@@hankkingsley9183 I agree that Matt is the best when talking purely about biblical things but these two are right up there and bring more into the conversations like the biology and psychology involved with certain callers.
Matt has a lot more biblical knowledge, but not going to lie, I prefer having someone with a large amount of scientific background.
50:48 "if God sends me to hell I will simply not go. What's he going to do, send me to hell?"- Shadow The Hedgehog
52:00: My response: Your honor, my client, the defendant can be seen in the camera footage giving the victim the choice to either hand over all of her money or be shot to death. The victim clearly chose death which should absolve my client of any wrong doing. NAILED IT!
Couldn’t agree more. Forrest is a huge asset to this show and the quality just went way up. It’s so much more effective to use logic, reason, and respect rather than insults (like we used to hear on this channel). You’re awesome too Christy!
I agree! I got really fed up with the rude nature the show used to have. I’m a huge fan of Forrest, and he’s just amazing!!
Bear, what a freaking enjoyable conversation. Genuinely asking question to learn and inquire out of a place of thoughtfulness. Especially after the previous "woke" @-hole.
I completely agree. Bear is a prime example of someone just wanting to find the truth, and doing it in a respectful way.
Christy & Forrest complement each other well and make a great team. Great job guys! I hope to see this pairing back in the studio soon!
Christy and Forrest what a great job handling the difficult calls. You are very respectful and at the same time you don’t take any bs!
Bear - you sound like an honest and open mined person, it was a pleasure to listen to your conversation. Good like to your journey!
I used to excuse Hell and God sending people there by saying, 'he doesn't 'send' people to hell. It's just that if someone rejects him, then he just doesn't bring them into heaven and they are vulnerable to the devil and demons who then drag them into hell.' I even used to think it was a beautiful thought that my Father in heaven loved me so much, even with all my flaws, that he created me anyway, knowing I might fail him or reject him (and end up in hell). I took it on myself to try and not disappoint God because he really wants me to join him in heaven and it's all on me if i make it.
Then I became I mother. And the whole idea of God being an all loving parent fell apart. If my child ends up rejecting me and everything I believe and hold dear, but then one day is standing outside my door completely defenseless, and leaving her outside would result in her being dragged away and tortured, I'm going to go usher her into where it's safe. Especially if her only 'mistake' was living her own life. She never hurt anyone, she was kind and good, maybe made some mistakes, but she just decided to live apart from me. No way I'm gonna let her be dragged away and tortured. FOREVER! And especially if I specifically wanted her to have the choice to live apart from me. And if having me in her life was so important, I'd make sure i was present, helping and supporting her in tangible ways. I sure wouldn't stand by, watch her suffer, have other people assure her that i love her from a distance, and then be upset she didn't choose me.
I was told all my life that God loved me even more than i can imagine. And i loved the idea of an all living Father, especially after being ignored and mistreated by my earthly father and step dad. But looking at God, parent to parent... Nope. I am more loving, and forgiving then the God I was presented with. Even more so than the god presented in the Bible. So if there is a God worthy of love and worship because He is good and loving, and not just because he is all powerful and we have to love him or suffer for an eternity (btw, any other character like that presented by a different religion or text would be a monster), then hell doesn't exist. Because no loving parent or decent being would send their children or anyone to be tortured forever.
So, I won't live my life in fear of going to hell, because I can't worship a god who condones the sort of hell I was taught to believe. And either hell doesn't exist, so no reason to fear it, or it does and I'm going regardless because I can't fool God into thinking I'm ok with it and love him and think he's worthy of worship when I actually believe that version of God is monstrous. So why suffer from guilt, shame, fear, and hurt others by telling them their wicked and hellbound, missing out on the joys of life, humanity, and community, in either of those scenarios?
As a mother, I completely understand your view. My children have had some hard times (all good now) and I would never reject them, or stop loving them. A god who condones this is not worth knowing or worshipping.
Well said
You sound like a thoughtful, kind person, and an excellent mother.❤
Being a good parent can change the way a person thinks. If a god sends someone to be tortured, he is evil. He created the torture and the rules and makes the decision. Only mental gymnastics can paint this differently.
Being "woke" has sod all to do with atheism. Forrest and Christy tried to explain to the caller that there are all types of atheists: Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, etc. We only agree on one constant, that is not being convinced of the existence of gods. We're free to disagree on many issues, as the comments will demonstrate.
Caller was a douche bag.
But then it's so much harder to demonize atheists if you can't ascribe all the views that you are against to them.😒
anyway Athiests in general don't go around saying ' god doesn't exist ' if anything we say ' i don't accept your outlandish claims '
Very true. Some people really want to put people in boxes, though.
Unfortunately AxP has its element of gender woke zealots.
Any person, who can bring a good argument, in this war against Religious Idiocy, is a friend of mine, and I especially want to encourage the younger generation to stand their ground on this subject! This is not flattery, it is recognition, and encouragement, on a very serious social matter.
I’m endlessly impressed by Forrest. Every time I listen to a show with him I come away with more knowledge and the reasons for the knowledge. Just incredible. Thank you AXP for “hiring” this guy 😊 Christy is fabulous as well. I love the way they speak and puts words together so succinctly. Beautiful job to the both of them!
The call with Jay was (chefs kiss) perfect. Guy came to pick an stupid, ignorant, pointless fight and got shut down in the nicest way. They kept him in line.
Jay needs a friend , maybe two.
They failed horrible in my opinion, they basically just said google it. Its in complete opposition to what he believed so it was relevant to the topic.
@@251rmartin seems clear to me that his hatred is fairly closely connected to his thrown.
@@dslims1
Troll troll go away.
@@mr.allitknow3777
Dude needs better friends imho. Would be funny if one of his family members came out as trans.
Great show. Teo was awesome. Love to hear the audience laugh along with me in the background, keep up the good work!
Damien’s display of authenticity and vulnerability was inspiring. Also, good demonstration of empathy by the hosts.
16:40 “You have the woke stuff and we have jesus”…hahaha I burst out laughing
They don't even know what they mean by "woke". It's an ad hoc buzzword without a coherent and unambiguous definition.
If we are "woke", are they the ones that are asleep?
Proud to be a non woke atheist. He’s totally right, wokism is equally absurd as religion. I often wonder how they talk down to religious people, whilst supporting child genital mutilation. ‘Oh you think you’re a girl Timmy? Let’s get that penis problem taken care of.’
@@_Omega_Weapon I presume I believe many things that would be considered "woke" - I still don't know what the hell this boogeyman term is supposed to mean, or the concept of "respecting and empathizing with people as a default position" as being a negative.
@@cvanunen how do you think "woke" is an insult, or even a bad thing?? Honestly? It literally means that I'm "awake", I'm paying attention, that in aware of the issues. 👈 How is that a bad thing? 🤷🏻♂️
Best episode I've seen in a while! Great hosts. The caller at the end sums it all up perfectly.
I felt like Christy and Forrest were dancing together - that is, they were in lovely synchronization in their use of logic and their concern with the mental states of their callers.
Nikol - "Men aren't emotional" is one of the biggest lies of the patriarchy. War isn't logical. War is waged as an emotional response or because of an emotional stance. Women in abusive relationships might stay because of logical reasons such as financial abuse means she actually doesn't have a means of escape; he's threatened to kill her so staying isn't an emotional choice, it's literally survival.
And as for the bible and marriage, it condones rape in marriage, women as property without a voice in marriage, etc. It tells men if a woman doesn't want to marry you, just rape her and her father has to sell her at a discounted price and you'll be allowed to rape her any time you want. The bible is a horrible book.
I agree too, but he also went on and said men can be equally locked into an abusive relationship just as women are.
Psychology, statistics, evidence is fully against this view. Women receive more abuse in relationships, and at work, moreso than men. This is also well known.
This is not to summize men and women are different, only that our hundreds (and thousands) of years of a mans world (or a white man's world) is still taking time and effort to remove from society, and religions are not only not helping with that, they are going backwards!
This also forms part of my frustration that _some_ women argue in favor of religion (say Christainity). Are they nuts? If Christainity were truly in power, there'd be claimed witches being burned in town square every Sunday.
Women Christains, or to be really blunt, black women Christains is an oxymoron.
Yup. Men are extremely emotional. Anger, lust, jealousy, greed, contempt, hate, disgust are all emotions that men throughout history have expressed in spades to the point of dangerous and deadly hysteria. Hence we see thr majority of violent crimes are committed by men.
It baffles me when people say men aren't emotional and are not permitted in society to express emotions when we see them freely express the above emotions in history, entertainment and present day.
Men have ALWAYS been allowed to express emotions. But like with women, various cultures only permit specific emotions for each gender.
@@jaclo3112 Yes cultural and upbringing.
Although biologically there is a bit of testosterone causing men to do things as well.
@@kimsland999 So men are also hormonal and are more prone to be controlled by their hormones so incapable of thinking logically and rationally.
Isn't if funny how this is projected on to women for centuries to the extent that it was and is used as a reason to deny women their basic human right to participate fully in society and the economy including leadership roles even if they are fully qualified and earned the position. Yet, as you have pointed out, men are prone to their behaviour being dictated by their hormones. however when this happens with men, it is to the extreme detriment and lives of others. but no one uses this as a reason why men are not suitable for leadership or working outside the home as they do with women. go figure.
@@jaclo3112 This is true, this is the very reason I say to theists: I'll inform you whhat's known to be true, even if I don't like it myself. As likes or dislikes or beliefs or lack of belief, is clearly irrespective to what is true or not.
However, in modern era we have learned to control our natural instincts.
Such as raping a woman that appeals to the man's interests, we have now stopped. The reason why we stopped natural tendencies is because we worked out its not nice for the victim. We worked out that running from rustling bushes (an excellent safe natural thing to do) means we never learn it was merely the wind.
It took a long time, thousands of years, to realize that controlling emotional outbursts such as fear or anger or even acting on impulses wasn't a good idea at all. We grew empathy from small families and expanded it into society. If you help the underprivilidged and weak, then they in turn may help you one day. But its not all about selfishness, its about equality humanitarian needs and well thought out morals and then society laws.
Some people can't control their emotions! Or worse, some organizations such as churches say we should only rely upon emotions! So outdated.
These days women are able to be hunters, managers, decision makers, voices of reason, even country leaders. These days men can be child carers, cooks (possibly mostly men nowadays) cleaners, home makers. These days both men and women can be equals.
But thousands of years ago without these resources available? I'd say the hunter should be the bigger of the two, and the home maker should be the one without hormones going mad! Not any more.
You'd think an all knowing claimed God would realize this inevitable conclusion? He must be ignorant.
Christy and Forrest are a great team! I hope to see more of Christy on the show! Great job!
Awesome hosts. Love the educational approach.
Forrest and Christy are prime examples of how to atheist :) Polite yet firm with no malice at all.
Man I went to church with my father and enjoyed every moment of time. It’s his world and it’s important to him, and I can’t deny him the support of his son around his society. Be kind to yourself, be kind to your parents.
Can’t shit on the ancestors because you’ve evolved .
All depends if it's evilgelical bullsh*t being forced down your throat or not.
I really wish people would stop thinking of divorce as just a bad thing. It can be a good thing, or it can be a bad thing. It is a case by case thing.
I am blown away by the number of men that ignored women’s sports for years and who now are so attentive to it and their perceived unfairness of trans participation.
Well, like it or not, it is a point of discussion. I'm not saying people are justified in their emotional conduct in those discussions, but number of people of one sex being interested in the topic shouldn't have a bearing in it.
@@andersandersen6295And I love to see ignorant transphobes make a fool of themselves on a subject they barely understand, much less have cursory knowledge on. Trans boxers have been in the sport for years before the topic became a popular talking point, most boxing champions are cis, boxing is LITERALLY about beating the shit out of your opponent, cis women have done more damage to other cis women than trans boxers have to cis women proportionally to their percentage, and that's not even talking about the damage cis women have done to trans boxers. Contrary to what you might think, assuming you've ever actually thought about this topic outside of the stereotypical, debunked talking points you transphobes like to parrot, there is a process that trans people have to go through if they want to be able to play professional in sports. If you're going to be a bigot, try not to come of as a dumb one, emphasis on try
@@andersandersen6295
You followed women's boxing closely before you decided to make it a transphobic issue?
Integrating trans people into sporting competitions is a serious debate that needs careful and sensitive consideration as it affects safety, fairness, etc.
Sporting bodies all over the world are grappling with the issue, trying to come up with a solution that is equitable and non-prejudicial to all parties involved.
Unfortunately that debate is made immeasurably more difficult because of bigots like you shrieking about things that either a) aren't currently a thing, or b) are exactly the sorts of situations that the sporting bodies are already tying to avoid.
@@maidros85 it does have a bearing on it though. None of these men give a cold turd about women or women's sports. They never watched a game before and honestly they likely still haven't but they see their favorite right wing chuckleheads screeching about it on UA-cam and bring it up over and over again. Nevermind that they have to cherry pick to push this false narrative, it's all just an excuse to engage in some good old Christian love of their fellow man in public discourse. And there's no hate like Christian love.
Honestly I’m as pro trans as they come but the sports issue is legitimate for sure
Teo needs to be next week's bonus for the promotional lmao "I never read the bible, I never plan to, it's just some shitty book..." * audience laughter * "You're the best caller we've had all day"
Forrest to Jay: "You sound like a delightful person..." 🤣🤣🤣
That was SAVAGE! 😅😅😅
Jay, I get a feeling that you are on these comments because your toxic views are mirrored to SO many trolls here who do NOT understand what atheism is. And DEF do NOT understand science! 🙃
Telling a biologist that he goes against biology kind of sums up Jay's entire mindset. He doesnt want to follow the evidence to where it leads. He already has his conclusions and wants to throw out everything that goes against that.
@@curious5661 And apparently following the science is somehow "woke".
Here's his Dunning-Kruger award. 🏆
@@jquest99 Yeah. Jay has no idea what "woke" even means but in his mind it has a negative connotation. It's just another way for him to dismiss whatever he doesnt understand and cant be bothered to learn about.
Here's a personal incredulity award 🏆 to add to his shelf.
Bless Forrest's heart for thinking Jay would ever open a science book. (I know it was more for the audience than for Jay)
jay will never open a science book...unless is christian science(pseudoscience)book maybe🤣
Awesome! I admire you guys! intelligent, professional, respectful, etc 😊
Holy shit, Eric's thought process.
He is stuck in a loop. They keep opening it up for him but he refuses to leave the loop unless it's not about God.
Yep, he kept having to reboot, then start at the beginning again.
He has Stockholm syndrome
"Thought" process. If you can call it that.
There was no genuine "thought" process there. He was intellectually dishonest from the start.
“You sound like you’re a delightful person” 😂😂😂😂😂
Definitely sarcasm implied.
Dripping.
Great show, guys. Entertaining and educational - perfect balance. Well done, as usual. Hugs from South Africa. x
Glad to see the Spaghetti Monster made it through the pandemic.
Ramen to that 😂
It would take more than a mere global pandemic to harm even one of His noodlely appendages!
You should show the "you send yourself to hell" guy the meme of jesus talking to someone through a door having this conversation:
J: Let me in
M: Why?
J: So I can save you
M: From what?
J: From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in
Protection racket.
@@kathryngeeslin9509 "That's a nice afterlife you think is waiting for you. It'd be a shame if something bad were to happen to it."
Mob boss analogy.
If an open-minded, intellectually curious and critically thinking theist were to read Harari's "Sapiens," then Dawkins' "The God Delusion" and finally Hitchens' "God is Not Great" in that order, it would be difficult to avoid becoming an Atheist. The other direct means would be to simply read the BIble.
I read the Bible. It worked.
Went through several other religions before admitting and accepting I was drawn to religions with strong atheist elements and was not likely to find the "something" I was seeking because I was (and am) atheist. (And was tempted by "somethings" feminine, no more of this he big man she little woman he rules she obeys crap.)
Yup. Reading the "bible" is the number one cause of atheism and it's easy to see why once you've read it.
My family is half Croatian, so it was SO AWESOME hearing Teo say those things because every time I visit Croatia I feel like an outcast and shamed for having coloured hair, tattoos etc, and they don’t even know that I’m an atheist lol. All of my family there tells me I shouldn’t pierce my nose or change my hair because I’m ruining the body that “god gave me”. Love to hear that not everyone there believes in the bullshit of the bible!
Exactly. My JW grandparents and other family say "The body is a temple ans you've violated it by having a tattoo" ( which I had to hide for 2 years from that part of the family). And yet, they can solo drink a bottle of whiskey and that's perfectly fine.
Also I got a tattoo of a YinYan dragon. So that definitely didn't help the situation
@@cylemorton2131 LOL I love that. I know, my grandfather is the worst for telling me that even just painting my nails is ruining the body god gave me, yet he’s been a SEVERE alcoholic his whole life 😂 I’m a hairstylist and he shamed me for that because I’m “breathing in chemicals” and that’s against god, yet he worked as an iron worker in the 60’s-90’s where he was getting led exposure on a daily basis 😂😂 like what ??
I am atheist and disapprove of tattoos and excessive piercings. Wouldn’t shame you for doing it, that’s your choice. I just find it unattractive.
I only mention this to share that the view is not necessarily religiously based.
@@Nick-Nasti that’s totally fair too- not everything is for everyone :)
37:20 Bear, through his honesty alone, is so close to a breakthrough!
57:52 I've seen this clip on tiktok and I loved it enough that I came on this channel to watch all the shows and calls in their entirety, and by watching them randomly I finally found it, I love you guys and I love the show, thank you for helping me with the religious traumas, it's awsome
28:07 "You guys just don't like truth!"
- I only hear these kinds of things from people who are confidently incorrect about a subject and are angry that you don't just take their word and believe what they believe...
> It's always the people with a kindergarten understanding of biology who want to tell biologists their wrong...
* I also hear "you don't want to know the truth" from conspiracy theorists...
I don't think they are perfectly psychologically correlated. Sometimes people may say those things and have knowledge and reason to justify their claim. Therefore its not all the time, or only _those_ people who say that.
I'm glad my mind is WOKE
rather than half ASLEEP!
Eric's Double standards and Special Pleading are mind boggling.
Both Christy and Forest did great in this ep! Would love to see more from Christy in the future
I would think that if avoiding hell was so vital, god and jesus could show up and say so themselves.
Well thats like using a cheat code😂
He/they are busy playing Call of Duty.
Well.....that's kinda what they believe happened. You know, storyline of the gospel
Sorry God has diarrhea and is busy at the moment
At 32:00 Forrest interrupts to comment that Bear’s story is common. Everyone is thinking this so Forrest is just being a good host. Thanks for being a fair and amiable interlocutor. I find it funny how people say they have “faith” and in the same paragraph say that they are a logical person (Bear). Bear seemed like a nice guy btw so I hope he learns more.
I have a new 'Supervisor' at my work who announced he's just like me, and will place reason above say unstable emotional outbursts.
Possibly one of the most industry unsafe person I have ever met, and constantly has emotional outbursts!
He's not just like me!
To Bear, or anyone trying to figure out theism or not, watching Forrest Valkie's UA-cam channel actually got me started on my deconstruction journey. I agree just watching Reacteria, where he debunks creationists trying to debunk evolution. But when i started watching, I still thought as a Christian apologist, who had studied biology but believed God was behind it all. But some personal strife, struggling with the harm and hypocrisy I could see Christians causing, inspired me to finally watch his 'ask an atheist day,' that I had been avoiding. He tore apart every Christian apologetic argument I knew, with the Bible. So I then started listening to other exChristians and their journey, mostly on TikTok and UA-cam. I realized i had never actually listened to the other side.
I hope I can be at least 1% as smart as Forrest. He is so great with communicating with people.
Indeed. Plus it’s not just how smart and knowledgeable he is, it’s also the excellent way he communicates the information to people of different education levels. He’s a million times better at it that 95% of scientists and he’s a breath of fresh air on UA-cam.
I think Jay is 1% of 1% as smart as Forrest.
Bear was a rare but very pleasing surprise.
Nice to see an open minded theist person. First for a very long time.
Time stamps are always nice. edit:Thanks to AE for the time stamps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@youhaveaGodregardlesscreature Hey fool- what does that even mean?
@@cocatfan I think it was a slur
@@cocatfan He's saying that since HE imagines his God creature regardless sweetheart, he assumes that you also must have an imaginary god creature.
@@youhaveaGodregardlesscreature there is no creature god creature regardless of your secret sausage ferish
@@youhaveaGodregardlesscreature you have non-magical chemicals, regardless.
I love these conversations. Im personally agnostic and went through an atheist phase but it just wasn’t for me. But I’ll happily accept and give respect to anyone that is.
I appreciate ya’ll sticking to the topics, remaining civil, and not allowing straw man arguments. You are both gems in this space and I wish you the best.
Theist: "You choose to go to hell!"
Atheist: "Then I choose not to go to hell."
Theist: "Waiiiiiit... that's not how that works!"
Moving the Goalposts... every single time.
What's God gonna do? Send me to hell?
Loved that.
I Disbelieve! And my saving throw is 13.
The idea we send ourselves to Hell is one of the stupest ideas out there. If I sent myself to Hell it isn't Hell. Nobody would send themselves to a place like that. If they did they want it and that isn't what Hell is.
I hope we see Christy a lot more. Great job Forrest and Christy!
Awesome show as Always.
Keep changing those minds one at a time.
Peace Love Empathy From Australia.
Likewise, mate.
Just visited Sydney last week and had an amazing time, Australia is hands down one of the most beautiful places in the world
Thanks! What city do you live in (so I can tell what animals I can hope that you evade)?
@@maxrichards3881 I'm from Tasmania 😋
@@smochygrice465
Ooh. Watch out for those damn Tiger Snakes.
Summary of Jay - insulated, uninformed Christian making blanket statements and broad generalizations about people and subjects he doesn't actually know anything about.
This goes to show its possible to not agree with someone, but still listen and respect their opinion. I don't agree with a lot they say, but I thoroughly enjoyed listening to different perspectives. They also hit it out the park on a lot of points as well.
I have come to realize that I am lucky having the type of mother I have. She grew up in the church and still believes whole heartedly. She has accepted that I do not believe and I do not go to any church. I am still treated as a very important part of the family. I feel sadness that so many are treated as outcasts. Forrest and Christy are super for working to see that people are pointed to the help they need.
Well said ! a true Honest Non manipulating God or Jesus would agree the Same.
Does she believe in claimed Christain Hell for your supposed Jesus sins?
If so, then your MOTHER is all ok with 100% believing you'll be burned for eternity!
Um, that's not loving. I don't believe that of you, nor do I believe that you are annihilated and your Mom won't be!
I have had many conversations with Christains who state they don't believe in Christain Hell.
I say: That's wondeful news because I can't wait to be in heaven and cast that monster Jesus out.
All Of A Sudden, they DO believe in Christain Hell (?) Sometimes they even say I'm an evil (supernatural) wicked witch. I find that very confusing, I thought they were being like loving parents, but they definitely aren't.
Hey I wonder what your Mom would say about me (and YOU).
@@kimsland999 She may or may not, I do not know as she never says anything about it to me. I have not been disowned or excluded from her life. She treats just the same as she did before I told her I didn't believe in her holy book and that it is just book of fairytales. My sister has not been as kind, nor have my sisters in law. From what I have seen of others, I have a rare mother as most seem to act like my sisters.
@@rabbakahn I find it somewhat of an oxymoron to be a female Christain!
If Christainity was the real law then the church would have girls not in school after 12, next to zero rights for women, and highly likely (I'd say guaranteed) claim witches being burned in town square every single Sunday!
I find female Christains to be in spite of the entire women's liberation movement of the 50s (and clearly before that, of that woman who threw herself in front of a horse to publicly address that women should be allowed to equally vote).
For Christain women to practice and believe in this scary Father nonsense, they are both backward, uneducated and naive, generally placing their misplaced love and irrational fears as a method to determine truth!
I said to my daughter when she was young, try your best to avoid falling in love with Christain practicing or evangelical Christain men, otherwise you'll have to 'obey' their demands! The Christain claimed God decided not to be in the image of a woman, this outdated absurd belief does not have women or equality of the sexes in hand, if anything it's the openly spoken opposite to that.
My daughter agreed, and is now an adult Psychologist, so pretty sure our discussions on the horror of theism worked.
I LOVE everything Forrest said to Jay.
I fucking adore the shit out of Forrest. What a legend!
When people threaten me with the possibility of hellfire, I ask them - What if there really is a god and she prefers skeptics over groveling sycophants?
What cracks me up about christians is that they tell you we are inherently sinful people, evil, broken, and that if we don't believe in christ, if we don't follow the bible, etc, we are going to hell. But at the same time they tell you that jesus already paid for your sins. I mean, if he already paid for my sins, then no matter how much i sin, i'm forgiven, right? And if i'm not, then wasn't his sacrifice useless? No matter how you look at it, it makes no sense.
@Ben James That's the thing: they're all wrong. To me they're all stupid. But at least islam doesn't have that contradiction between old and new testament i was talking about, that christianity has. I mean theoretically, since jesus paid for our sins, no matter what we do or don't do, we should all be saved once and for all, but we aren't. We still have to believe in him, follow the bible and all that crap, otherwise we're domed. That's even more nonsense.
Great show, gentlemen. Good job.
Forrest is correct when he told Jay that the left leaning in the USA s generally centre - right for most western countries such as Australia and New Zealand. Your Democrats would be considered right wing here in NZ. We took a Pew Research quiz and whilst I’m a centre right voter here I came out as a moderate Democrat. Your Republicans in NZ would be off the charts completely.
The US is one right wing with two parties.
@@kidslovesatan34 Australia isn't too far behind. The ALP is merely global economic rationalism with a slightly softer edge.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Yah, I think they might all be members of the Ceduna United National Tourers club.
@@kidslovesatan34 As an alumni of the Ceduna Area School, I think you might be on to something!
@@holgerlubotzki3469 but we CAN and DO have other parties if we aren't getting listened to. Have an election where Greens do well, and all of a sudden the country gets a refreshing dose of caring for the planet and each other signed into law, ignore the bigots too much and Pauline picks up seats. 👈 We CAN have a Parliament that is responsive to the people, unlike the USA.
This was a great episode. Awesome hosts with great chemistry who handled calls especially well. While it might be seen as mundane, I loved Teo's call. Im so glad that we can connect with atheists around the globe.
I grew up atheist. My religious family members used to shame my Mum for not bringing us to church as kids. Mum is still feeling that a bit.
With all due respect fuck them, I dissociated from those people in my own family and I have never been happier without them in my life. Unfortunately they can't say the same thing.
Really nice hosting pair.
Poor Jay! He's so close-minded that he can't hear the hosts' words. I hope he takes the time to think deeper about the topics he brought up. All his 'attack dog' mentality does is shut conversations down.
Terrific show, guys, thanks!
Aron is amazing and very well spoken and just to clarify, I don't think he has any relative academic credentials. He's incredibly insightful and well informed.
He has a BS in Anthropology and studied paleontology at University of Texas.
The last call made me cry Happy Tears! 💙🥹💙
Damien-WA - Best advice - Say you don't believe, but you refuse to debate - Be firm - say you are only willing to discuss ways that believers and non-believers can find common ground and goals. Just keep changing the subject if people try to preach.
Common goals; love others, even those who are unlovable. Forgive others, even when they hurt you.. Be kind and merciful, patient and understanding, go the extra mile, be humble and generous. Be just and fair, honest and full of integrity.
@@wwlib5390 Sermon alert.
The women’s sport thing would almost be an actual valid point, were it not for the fact that the same people who now spread it spent the last 20 years making fun of the WNBA
Also counting how many trans are in the sports and dominate
They’ll name like 3 out of thousands who only won one or two medals
Oh my glob, Bear was delightful!!! His chuckle was just pleasant, and his questions were reasonable and thoughtful.
Nikol: "not just the passages you like." Think he stones his unruly child to death?
I am a huge fan of Forrest, always love seeing content with him in it. Good show!
Jay, like others, use the word "woke" as if it were a bad thing without knowing what it really means.
He's using it as a "sneer word", a label that you plaster the other person with instead of actually listening to them.
@@DianeGraft
Like his Twitter right-wingers say Leftists use “Nazi”.
" ... Right, but you still got choice." It was at this moment that I needed to step away for a few minutes.
Damien had a great question. I've been fortunate in that I haven't had a negative experience with my family. I think Forrest is right when he says you need to remember where your family is coming from. Intention is very important.
Somebody please inform Jay that libertarians are often atheists too, but a lot of people consider libertarianism to be an extreme right-wing position.
I used to consider myself libertarian, but lately, they've been moving further right
@@acfkelly6291 Libertarians either want no regulations or just say "I got mine, F you." Where do your beliefs fall?
@@Spiritof_76 Most libertarians want the government out of their lives EXCEPT when they need government in their lives.
@@Spiritof_76 I can't speak for @acf kelly and it would be unrealistic to sum up political beliefs in a single sentence, but personally, I think that government is a tool that ought to be used cautiously. I do not believe for one second in the ridiculous fantasy that everything wrong with industry would self-correct if we repealed all the laws or that boycotting by itself is an effective means of holding corporations responsible. I think that crowdsourcing certain things, like school lunches, is a noble endeavor worth paying into, but I'm skeptical of paying taxes to the U.S. federal government and its 50 states because my taxes tend to ultimately pay for a single cheese sandwich to be shared by a dozen children in my community and a missile that kills a dozen more children somewhere else.
@@jquest99 Out of the lives of rich white men. They definitely want laws when their incubators decide they want bodily autonomy.
Teo was my absolute favorite today...Fantastic
This show illustrates, over and over again, that even highly intelligent people can fall prey to religious indoctrination , and adopt completely irrational ideas.
Society has been made to reward their no sense (nonsense) beliefs.
It comes down to, would you prefer to be ignorant and happy, or actually be aware of reality?
Many people elect ignorance and gullibility. The problem with this 'happy life' (argumentive really) is that they could accidentally hurt themselves (or worse) at any moment. Jesus doesn't _really_ have the wheel.
This was an amazing episode! I really was skeptical at first because Matt wasn't the host, but this was a refreshing change, and frankly both presenters were more tolerant than Matt.
This is one of the best AE I've watched so far! You two are great together. Really enjoyed the dynamic and the way you both interact with each other and the guest callers. Please do this again....
I don't disrupt anyone's prayers, unless they're praying for me, in front of me. I don't join in, or pretend to
Sometimes I do tend to chuckle a bit. I mean they are being funny.
Lets say you went past a table and the people were saying: Tinkerbell please give us guidance and throw fairy dust upon us. You wouldn't laugh? Anyway that's how I hear their nonsense.
Great show!!! I love the chill nature of these two host. Great info thank you very much
Teo was the highlight of the show - if Christy wanted a bow put on it, Teo did that and glitter, too!
Thanks for the call Bear. Great to hear informative and genuine conversations between those with atheist and theistic prospectives. You were this week’s anti-Jay.
Any conversation that starts with someone calling someone else "woke" is about to be the most boring predictable talk
Replace woke in your text with racist. and you get the same result.
@@andersandersen6295
Yeah you would downplay racists 😂
@@HandlingYou How am i downplaying racists?
Cmon bud are you really saying a movement of people asking for equality,logic and reason in a modern age can compare to with a system of oppression that's lasted for centuries and ongoing
It doesn't and that's you downplaying it to compare it
@@andersandersen6295 lol and out comes the dogwhistles 😂
Forrest needs his own show
Christy and Forrest were so patient with Jay. I would have difficulty.
Flashback for me because Aron and Forrest do shows together now, lol. Love you both.
Whish I could have visited The studio today. 👍 thanks
I loved this episode! Forrest is amazing and that last caller was a great way to end the episode.