How did Chris Barnes change his grip? | Beef and Barnzy PBA Tour Tips
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
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This is a great video. I wish more people would make videos digging deeper into the topic of grip changes.
Thanks for the vid, Chris! This was great-more pros should talk about their fit reasonings and evolution like this. 👊🏻
Great way to break it down to us League Bowlers. You are a Great Teacher.👍
Thanks for sharing this Chris. I'm going through a similar adjustment now and shortened my span from being overspanned, but now it's about an 1/8" short and not enough reverse in the fingers combined with the lateral pitches feeling just slightly excessive outwards, so it's creating a nasty pressure on the first finger crease on the inside of both fingers.
Fitting is truly an art form and I respect all knowledgeable drillers and bowlers with how many unique hand shapes and cases that they go through.
Great video Chris! Thanks for talking about how adjustments in our equipment and setup can help us as time marches on.
I changed my grip before league last year and things got much more comfortable, my average went up 15 pins. I reduced the span a little, added a little forward on the thumb (still a reverse pitch overall) and added more reverse on the fingers due the hand being less flexible. I guess that was overdue as I was bowling in pain for a while. We’re often too reluctant due to plugging and redrilling balls but I just took that opportunity to sell a bunch and buy new ones.
I made a large grip change like this Mike Calderon at B3 Performance and it has made all the different in ball roll and reaction. Great content!!!
Mike is fantastic! One of my favorite people!
I've heard he is one of, or these best in the business. I may need to give him a visit.
At 58 i did the same back in november, what a difference and shot my first ever 300!! Great video!!!
Excellent content, Chris!
Fit is so important, and many bowlers don't consider how fit impacts their shot-making. I am also to blame. My pro shop guy told me for a long time that I needed to shorten my span and change some pitches. When I finally tried a shorter span it was AMAZING. I had all my balls plugged and re-drilled with the new span.
did you have a cleaner release with the shorter span?
your just 52, enjoy it....i just got into bowling at 64. thanks for the great videos i have learned a lot
This is extremely helpful information that you won't get elsewhere. Leave it to Chris.
Such a great video, you should do more of these as we learn a whole lot more about the technical aspect of the game from such videos. Also thanks for taking time out to take a picture with me in Dubai. Big fan and love the way you bowl. Keep rocking Chris
I didn’t know you don’t have pure fingertip for strike ball. Awesome video. 👍
Excellent video! I’m going to check my spare ball as I’ll occasionally hang up. Great advise! Thank you very much.
That's awesome ty Chris 😊 I'm 58 an I Ben working on my hand as well
Thanks for a great tip. I have done the same recently. I hade zero forward and 5/16 left to create more forwardroll. But....this was good on the fresh, when we move left I had trouble to create axisrotation. Now I am back at my old old grip (pre IPSIA-education with Somoff) and I have 3/16 reverse and 3/16 right. This opend up a new (and old) world were I can stay behind it AND create insane axisrotation. My score and revrate has increased to above 400+ from 360. Cool to improve that at age 47. Thanks for great videos and keep them coming. Greatings from Sweden!
Hi CB,
talking grip. Guess you've seen the impersonation vid by MK and your tight thumb. Reminds me of when you played the AIK tournament in Stockholm, where you stopped at release point to go back and forcevaly get your thumb out, putting additional tape, forcing it back in the ball, to make a new approach releasing it as smoothly as ever. People where dumbfounded.
What’s amazing to me is as I’ve learned more about how things are going now with bowling versus when I was young, I didn’t realize how many of you in the pro ranks drill and measure your own balls and how educated you are on the subject of fit in and feel and utility of these things. It’s a part of the game I never got taught when I was young back in the 80s, and I can see where it is extraordinarily critical to understand what your equipment is doing as much as you understand what your mechanics are doing. I honestly thought y’all had pro shop guys and ball reps doing all this for you. It’s the thing I love about bowling there’s always one more thing to learn and grow in
Barnes is such a legendary bowler.
I had to do that too. Went up 1/8 have a 1/4 and a 1/4 reverse with left on thumb and 3/8 away in fingers in order to float the ball through friction.
It's interesting to see the size differences between you two index bowling fingers and the outer two support fingers.
Recently I changed from a zero thumb pitch to 1” reverse and 1/2” away. I went from hanging and ripping the back of my thumb after 6 games to being able to bowl twenty a day back to back no problem. I’m a high rev high speed player so longevity is key.
I've been throwing with a quarter reverse pitch in the thumb since I was in high school. Cuz I would always hang up and then it would cause me to pull it. And yes you do get some more revs out of it because you come out of it faster. Same thing just different reasons. Awesome
Thank you Chris for going into those details! I will be watching that video multiple times and taking notes. Playing with the wrong grip (for me) hasn't been working out so great.
Good stuff, sir. I'm looking at trying a new grip this summer, but the decision point is "do I want to plug 20+ balls"? :P
I used to be 0 in the thumb and 1/8 forward in my fingers, but now in my late 30's I've gone to 1/8 reverse in the fingers and 3/8 reverse in the thumb for basically the exact same reason. I broke my middle finger at the first joint twice and just lost flexibility in my hand overall. I was very against it at first because I thought I would just lose too much power, but what a difference it's made.
Great Video Barnzy, informative and interesting, even if most of it is beyond my own understanding.
Sometimes mine too! Always learnjng
Fantastic info CB! I always thought I would need to go more forward with my thumb and away with the fingers to keep up with the changes in the flexibility of my grip as I am also in my 50's. Robert Smith drilled up my last ball also pitching my thumb back so I could get the front portion of my palm on it, but I thought it was counterintuitive to what I was asking him for and really didn't work with it because it felt like I was losing it at the bottom. Should have just kept working with Robert's layout and snugged up the thumb hole a bit more....My bad, Robert! Again, great info!
Great change Chris I'm 1in 1/2 away in my fingers it definitely feels better for me
Excellent explanation ok
I wonder if this would work with this sarge Easter grip, I had to switch to that grip when I messed my finger up
When I started researching about a year ago, I noticed quite a number of pros use semi-fingertip.
Is it for more control?
Not really semi like mine. I actually thought more people would start trying it in the 2000’s when I was really playing well. But several do dig in slightly past the crease. To try and increase rev rate
Thank You.
back in the early 70,s I had a started a friendship with the great Carmen Salvino. and after I bowled in my first proam event I won a ball for that appearance. and we actually bowled together and cashed. but back to bowling ball it was a Columbia Tommy Hudson ball. the first urethane ball. and when I received that ball Carmen told me to come to his proshop and he would drill it. he noticed that I was having thumb problems. well he used a reverse pitch on the thumb and also a side pitch and I never had problems with the thumb again. first time I bowled with that ball was that Sunday morning after Carmen had drilled it. and the two of us went to a bowling center there in North lake Illinois that had 70 plus lanes and after a few practice games we got into some pot games there and the two of us won a pot.
"Maybe I don't do it that well". Hah, very funny.
I use any forward pitch on my thumb I'll go down the lane with it. Standard for me is a half reverse with zero fingers. Either a relaxed grip or full finger tip. In my 60's and still averaging in 220's
I tried a shorter span which would be a more traditional fit, however, because my hand is rather meaty near my thumb it caused too much drag on my palm and lower thumb. 😢 I had to back to a longer span killing my rev rate that I had but at least its pain free bowling now
Great video. I just noticed, your bowling middle and ring finger, they're huge. Is that from bowling? 😯
Can you explain semi finger tip? You put the fingers in past the first knuckle?
Yeah, I'm not understanding this. I don't even like mine to go as deep as the first knuckle, if they go in deeper I feel like I can't get lift.
Pretty sure it somewhat helps your rev rate. You will have more control over your release with tips that go slightly past the first knuckle. So it's easier to maintain a good rev rate with less stress on your fingers
my span is 4 5/8 and im smaller than him.. never thought CB has shorter span like that.. im just curious when i had shorter span, at the end of release i dont feel my finger at all and it kill my rev..
Mr. Barns’ I actually did the same as I am reaching the beautiful age off 56, I have a better hold of the. as you said now I’m resting on the finger index and palm, plus had my fingers(left) ring finer 3/4⬆️1/2◀️(right) middle finger 3/4⬆️1/4➡️ ring finger to thumb 4-9/16, middle finger to thumb 4-1/2, Thumb pitch 5/16 ⬇️ feels so much better and I get out of my thumb faster’ where as before I was always getting jammed and shooting right of pocket (lefty) Tom Daughtery’s Pro shop, Collin is Tom no#1 PSO, who suggested this as we bowl in the mens league. As always Mr.Barns your a great bowler whom I’ve followed for a long time. I was rooting for Kris Prather but GLAD to see that Don Barrett win the Kia PBA tournament of champions. Did I miss you and Stu talking about the 6 balls banned? I had a funnel to go to and spend time with family so I didn’t get on my phone to much until today. ALWAYS GREAT INFO AND VIDEOS. Thank you
Just curious about a couple things. Why semi fingertip in the strike but not the spare? Do a lot of pros use the semi fingertip grip? Is there an advantage to going to semi? It’s just a grip that I’ve never tried.
Chris, so with all the reverse in the fingers your grips will stick up In the back, do you razor blade them flush?
Also I see you use 1-31/32 is that a vacu grip then, Or a regular finger hole just 3 bits bigger?
Super insightful - thanks Chris! Who would you recommend in the Austin area? I'm new here and not sure where to start. BTW... if it's easier to just drive up to your garage I'm good with that too! ;-)
Gary Robinson at highland lanes
Why not ad a lateral pitch for your thumb? Mine was 1/4 rev and 1/8 lateral and I've recently had issues clearing my thumb so I added 1/4 lateral and now I come out easy and now I can rev the ball up easier
Ive changed my span a bit as well just a touch shorter to help me bowl better
Do you need to add the lateral when doing the reverse/away pitch in the fingers? Does this also help with extra lift? Thanks
not generally. It helps as the pad of your finger will be touching the insert, as opposed to the nail pushing against back of hole
@@BeefandBarnzy ok. Thanks. I don't have any issues with that. I don't use any pitch in the fingers. So been wondering if a little pitch was to get more lift or not. Enjoy your alls tips an authenticity!!
The lateral in the fingers are to make sure the holes don't meet at the bottom. They must add up to at least 3/4 of an inch. Other than that, lateral in the fingers is mainly for comfort.
Chris, have always respected your skill set. Even with your semi, I didn't know you were that short. I know you are famous for keeping your thumb super tight, but opening your hand just a bit more as you age is definitely the right thing to do. I used to be 1/4 forward and an 1/8 to the palm with a 4-3/16 span, and I backed off on the forward a bit and got rid of the lateral because when I was getting to the bottom of the swing, I couldn't create much of a flat spot and it was killing my fingers.
I'd love for you to get Norm to show his grip. Last I heard, he doesn't touch the holes off of the press, and I like my holes sharp too. Fingers are easy, but I want to see how he does his thumb.
@@jasonromeiser5026 unless your fingers can bend 90° easily at the first joint, you should have some reverse. Due to lots of factors, my fingers barely bend 40°, so I use 5/8 reverse in the fingers. If you put your hand in the ball and your nails are pushing against the back of the hole, you need some reverse.
What is your theory or suggestion for getting the correct lateral thumb pitch? Every driller wants to just give me what they give everyone else, 1/8 to 1/4 right... but I feel I need 3/4 right or more, but can't get the right combination with the reverse and span. My span is 4 7/8.
wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/6/64/Coke_can_overlay_for_thumb_pitch.pdf
I'm right between index and middle finger and that's 0 lateral. How do you naturally hold a pencil or grip objects with the shape you make bowling? I also hold my pencil with thumb between the index and middle which isn't proper writing technique, but how my hand naturally grips with the thumb joint.
Lateral pitch in thumb should be based on anatomy and where your thumb ends up with the coke test or pencil, not the type of roll you are trying to achieve or earliness or lateness the ball let's go of your hand; that can be controlled by span length or forward/reverse thumb pitch. Lateral is purely comfort based or to prevent excessive rubbing on either side of the thumb if adjusted incorrectly to your natural anatomy.
More stretched span requires more reverse in the thumb to clear the hole and shorter span requires more forward in the thumb to allow you to still be able to hold onto the ball with the shorter span and more relaxed grip. The way your hand naturally grips the coke can or pencil determines your lateral thumb pitch. I find the pencil test to be most accurate as that's what your brain and muscles/tendons have developed over time to allow the lightest grip possible on an object. Best fit I've ever gotten has been emulating the natural form your hand grips a pencil, but allows even finger pressure in the ball between the two fingertips and minimal thumb pressure.
Do this test at 1:17 to verify you have the proper spans and pitches. You can feel the way it's tugging on your thumb as well to see if your lateral pitches are off.
ua-cam.com/video/wdmcS2luEf0/v-deo.html
@@AyoMrB an arrow off the top of my thumb points well past my pinky when doing the coke can grip test for lateral. I'll check the other norm Duke test.
@@JAW_73 When you grip and hold a pencil, what fingers are you pointing to? Your thumb tends to follow the natural angle of the joint. Do you grip the pencil between you ring finger and pinkie with thumb supporting?
@@AyoMrB I'm going to pick up a pencil with my thumb and two fingers, middle and ring Thumb is in the middle of them. I'm not going to pick up anything with my thumb and pinky . No one ever is.
@@JAW_73 That's 1/4 right. Depending on your flexibility you could potentially go 3/4, but may develop rubbing inside the thumb. I pick up a pencil and support between index and middle and 0 lateral is perfect for me. Now knowing you are 1/4 right, you can experiment with spans and pitches to get a better fit that causes you to hang less.
Hand size affects the results of the coke can test, but the pencil test I feel is more accurate using the same results sheet as the coke can since it's the grip you want on the ball based on your natural anatomy and soft grip.
wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/index.php?title=File:MorichFitting.pdf
Chris, what is your PAP?
Its crazy watching you jam your thumb into the ball lol.. I'm scared it aint coming off if I did that.
Chris…..so did you have a general rule of thumb (excuse the pun) as to how much to change your thumb pitch. In other words….how did you know how much to go negative? Thanks
I went to the masters a few years ago. Chris was the only one who wouldn’t take a photo with me. He was standing in a pro shop , I wouldn’t bother a bowler if they were busy. But he ignored him. It’s something I can’t forget. 😨
I apologize Rebecca, I must have misread the room so to speak. Taking pictures / signing autographs is the easiest thing we do. If someone asks, I’m always happy to oblige or at the very least - finish whatever is going on and then take one. My apologies
Interesting, my span is 4 15/16 x 5 I have 1/4 reverse in the thumb, 7/16 away in fingers Maybe I should try more in the thumb.
Wow... I need someone to check my fit to make sure I right because I don't know
I hang up on my thumb and feel like I can't let go of the ball. What should I change? I feel like I have to squeeze so hard to hold the ball. Any suggestions
There are so many options. You really need to chat with a proshop professional. Often if you feel like you need to squeeze, it’s often because your swing is a little late, causing you to be very steep. This makes you feel like you are going to lose the ball
Doesn't that make it harder to hold on to during the swing , thus making us squeeze it more though ?
That’s why the tight thumb hole. Eliminates the need to squeeze
I made a thumb pitch change, too. Went from 5/8 left to 11/16 left to get my thumb out quicker.
Are you left or right handed?
@@JAW_73 Yo, J W, I'm right handed.
@@russellgilbert3453 Thanks. I'm right handed and 3/4 right with 3/4 reverse. 4 7/8 span. I tried left in my thumb and almost broke my thumb.
So if you don’t have much flexibility is it good to go semi finger tip?
not necessarily. Chris has always been that way. Its more about adding reverse, especially to fingers
Agreed. I actually have had a pretty good amount of flexibility. I originally shortened bc of elbow issues. It was overdone but I noticed Steelsmith dug in and he is our wsu idol so I did the same
I'm surprised you went away on the fingers because don't you get less lift then
Can we see Barnes vs Barnes: 2 handed??
That would be a quick and brutal beat down if I’m bowling 2 handed also!
@@BeefandBarnzy please make it happen! UA-cam is about entertainment.
52!!!
Are you throwing 16 still?
Switched to 15 a year ago
All of us that are getting older have experienced the same thing, loss of flexibility. So all of you young pups get ready, you will have to do the same thing.
Barnzy vs nba
What if you're basically brain dead to the concept of all this but find it interesting and want it to make sense/learn more. I'll hang up and listen.
What area are you in? Find a knowledgeable/ experienced pro shop guy and he / she can get you fitted correctly?
Any suggestion for someone with osteoarthritis of the dip joints of my bowling fingers in this full grip ball? Difficult to make a good release out onto the lane. For those who do not know those joints are the last knuckles at the bend. 67 years of this sport will do that. 🎳