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I loved the video however I have one argument. You said being a hypocrite is wrong but I think it's impossible to not be one. If you sit down and question yourself you will eventually find questions your 50/50 or unable to answer because it would be easier not to. My argument is it's impossible in life to not be a hypocrite as it's a morally gray area rather than a one sided bad area especially when it comes to positions in power.
I'm still so sad about his passing. I met him at a convention in 2021 and he was so nice, taking the time to chat with me about Fire Emblem and Persona, and he signed my shirt of his Fire Emblem Three Houses character Ferdinand Von Aegir. His voice work was truly amazing, he was so passionate in all of his roles. Rest in peace
Doctor Maruki truly stands out from all the previous persona antagonists, he is neither a god, a murderer or a mentally unstable teenager, he is a normal man that only wants people to not suffer
And you know what's even more crazy about when he was doing his research? He got off easy, meanwhile Futaba's mom who was doing the same thing got assassinated for it.
Lmao I was gonna say about "mentally unstable teenager"; Futaba had a Palace whose distortions were borne of grief & self-loathing for the mother she felt responsible for losing. When it comes to "grief-distorted Palace Rulers with a connection to cognitive psience (stolen by Shido) and a Lovecraftian Persona", Maruki can have some parallels to Futaba in that regard......... after the fistfight he very much was on the route to suicide before Joker saved him, comparable to how Futaba's guilt & self-isolation almost drove her to the same. I kinda like how their changes of heart accomplished a healthier emotional outlook for both of them; sure Maruki was definitely going to cause more damage than Futaba but seeing him happy in the end was a relief on its own for me😅
@@LunaP1 Wakaba was the biggest threat to Shido, so he had to get rid of her asap. Maruki probably wasn't even on his radar (since he wasn't researching cognitive psience for the government).
A line that I will always remember is from Morgana. He says that he acknowledges that many people would benefit from a world like this and sees where he's coming from even though he disagrees.
I also love how Maruki basically does the same. He says something like "the truth is, it is better for people to tackle their problems themselves. But reality doesn't always make that so feasible!"
Interestingly, accepting Maruki's deal isn't even a "bad ending". Contrary to popular belief, the devs don't consider accepting or rejecting him to be good or bad. They had it so both endings are the good ending.
@@SaiyanGamer95I think thats the devs leaving his game open for every interpretation and not being judgmental. The game its pretty clear which one its the good one: the one where Sumire and Akechi are not unnervingly happy meat-puppets, specially after being specific about upholding their will. The one were a "gentle madman" (literally the name of one the soundtracks for Maruki) dont tamper with the brains of everyone.
@@albertocruzado2899 Only reason Akechi came back from the dead, is because that was Joker's impossible wish. Like Futaba's impossible wish was to have Wakaba alive. When it makes it so sad Akechi is willing to undo his revival, for the greater good of mankind. As Maruki revealed himself how Akechi is back from the dead. Akechi may be insane, but he has some good morals. If sacrificing his existence is the price to pay for mankind to not be dictated by Maruki's false reality, he is willing to pay that price. Happiness should not be given, but rather earned. Without overcoming pain by one's own power, one cannot find true happiness. And sometimes, one needs to make sacrifices, to save those one loves from the pain. I suffer from emotional pain every day from my regrets from my past. Do I let that overpower me? No. I move on, keep living, despite constantly bearing that pain each day.
I think Maruku's Phase 2 being so much easier to fight helps emphasize how hypocritical he is as he mounts a stronger offense, only for it to fade due to how much he refuses to fight them
And by the time Adam Cadmon takes control of the situation, it was too late since they’ve already taken a beating and his first decision is to go so far on offense he’s actively lowering his defense
Something that highlights Sumire's importance to the story and Maruki, I think, is that she essentially acts as a test case for each side to prove their argument. For the majority of the game, she is solidly in Camp Maruki, abandoning her identity as Sumire to act as Kasumi. This initially proves Maruki's point, as she was trapped in despair with no hope of recovery or completing the dream she shared with her sister. However, as you progress her confidant, it's shown that that happiness is short-term and stagnant. Sumire can pretend to be Kasumi, but she can't truly replicate her sister's performance, and thus can't fulfill their dream as she is. It's only once Joker helps her face her grief and accept herself as Sumire that she begins to truly move forward. It took a lot of short-term pain, but she converted that pain into developing her gymnastics abilities and making true progress with her and her sister's dream. Maruki has a compassionate goal, but only seeks short-term relief from tragedy that requires long-term healing. Under his rule, no one can truly grow like Sumire and the Phantom Thieves were able to. The Phantom Thieves may not be able to erase the trauma people suffer, but they can at least provide a chance for those victims to pick themselves back up and continue on under their own strength. Sumire was the direct evidence for this.
Hell, it’s shown that personal demons can be the most threatening as the Phantom thieves would have died in futaba’s palace without her confronting the truth herself.
Its funny because Strikers deals with that same issue with Akira saying he will help those who never got a chance to be saved yet he used a little girl to capture the phantom theives and fight against her father, not to mention the other prison wardens being forced to stay in their trauma because of emma and him, i wont even get into the one that made emma she got off way too easy compared to the akira
And this is the main reason why Sumire’s my favorite Persona 5 character-she’s so damn good. Also, she acknowledges Maruki’s actions did provide a short term bandage (she implies that she thinks she would’ve attempted to kill herself if she was still aware she was Sumire), but not the proper recovery she needed, and only finally started to move on with the help of the Phantom Thieves. I love Sumire. Best Royal Trio member imo.
Maruki quickly became one of my favorite Persona characters in the entire series, moreso than my other favorite character, Adachi. RIP, Billy Kametz, you knocked this role outta the park.
In fact, you could say that Adachi and Yoshikage Kira are similar in a way that he's some nobody blending in with the crowd, along with his "Persona," no pun intended, of being a hapless goofball, comic relief detective who ends up accidentally leaking confidential information about the murders in Inaba, leading the investigation team into who their next victim will be.
Just finished Persona 5 Royal. I thought Maruki is a great antagonist. Partially because his offer is very tempting. It is such an ideal world, and his intentions are good for it. But besides just struggle, Maurki's plan removes choice. Your perfect life is what he thinks is best for you, to the point of you getting mind wiped and rewritten to believe its for your best. But love his dungeon design, great boss fight, and just a great conclusion to an already great story. Worth nothing, I think his plan would fall apart eventually, as the expanding people could cause his perfect reality to fall. Trying to accommodate the rest of the world, I think would eventually stretch his mind too much, not even accounting for how exactly new children would complicate things. If you look around the world, you can see NPC's collapse from partying too much, talking about exhaustion from working too much, but they can't stop just because they are so happy doing it. I really like if you look, you can already see cracks starting to form in his perfect world. But I know its a rant all this, I really loved this game. RIP Billy kametz. You were a great voice actor and you gave a fantastic performance as Maruki
I think it would’ve been like the Matrix. Haven’t actually completed third semester yet, still going through it for a second time, still enjoyable even with IZUNAGINOOKAMIPICARO and ALL WILL BE REVEALED shouting from Joker. Just wasted another 100 hours into a second play through and I’m at Shido palace
It might interest you to know that technically speaking, there is no correct choice; both accepting and rejecting are equally valid. The devs themselves don't consider rejecting his proposal to be the good ending, nor is accepting his world the "bad ending". They're both the "True Endings".
@@SaiyanGamer95 I haven’t yet seen the video, but I feel kinda bad for Kasumi, as her storyline gets massively dropped after like first hour or so (even before Kamashida is getting taken down). She is quite interesting character, but her personality isn’t exactly revealed until MUCH later in the story. Meanwhile Maruki’s character is really well-developed and you begin to sort of sympathise with the character. Kinda like Senator Armstrong, but his character actually gets developed throughout the game
@@justiceplay3518 Kasumi gets expanded upon a bit later when she first awakens to her Persona on October 3rd, but she opts to not join the Phantom Thieves. You do also get some scenes with her in Akechi's Confidant. What I find disappointing is how much pre-released hyped her up. Not only did she get special attention, but they mentioned she dislikes the Phantom Thieves because she believes people should solve their own problems. But when she learns Joker is the leader of the Phantom Thieves, she doesn't join because she disagrees with them, but because she has other stuff going on. And, you know, she's only playable in the final dungeon, so you don't get much time to use her.
@@SaiyanGamer95 yeah, I haven’t seen much of pre-release hype around her, so I am still kinda disappointed that after October 3rd there’s so small amount of interaction with her (you could still go on the hangouts with her, but since before third semester you can get only rank 5 in her social link, it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Plus on first play-through you can’t really get a lot of confidants done since you need to also upgrade your skills, plus you dunno what confidant abilities actually do.
So here is my head canon. The reason why Joker became aware of the altered reality is that Maruki made him aware to fulfill his real subconscious goal, that even he wasn’t aware of. What Maruki really wanted all along was someone to talk to that understood him. That’s why to progress in his palace you must learn about his circumstances and pain. Maruki is a person that, when in pain, will distract himself by trying to solve everyone else’s problems rather than sorting out his own baggage. So when he got the powers of a god, that allowed him to do basically whatever and fulfill his every desire, he subconsciously made someone that could understand him and help him deal with reality. Since he was already aware of how the Phantom Thief’s operate and was close to Joker in the first place, it makes sense that he would be made aware of the altered world and try to stop him. In short the third semester is effectively Marukis subconsciousness and his active consciousness fighting for what he really wants. His active consciousness is trying to save the world as a distraction from his subconscious desire to let out his issues to someone. That’s why stealing his treasure, which is a persons warped desires, is effectively allowing him to get his shit together
It's a shame we had to beat him for him to mellow out. With the Phantom Thieve's collective conscience and Maruki's intelligence, they probably could have fixed their world while still allowing free choice. But Maruki was too far gone...
So the whole 'eternity of sleep for Joker' actually makes sense for Maruki to do. From the very beginning, as their leader, Joker has had to be the one who makes the tough decisions for everyone. He had to be the active person who steps up and does the job before everyone else follows after him, which was practically TORTURE for him because the first time he ever made the decision to step into a major situation, he got screwed over because of Shido, so he has trauma from the thought of needing to act. Now, after this entire journey of seeing adults abuse their power, to taking down a freaking God, it's not rocket science to say that Joker needs a fucking break. And what does he get instead? The knowledge that the counselor he opened up to is warping the reality they JUST fought to save, but into a totally blissful world where everyone gets what they want and are happy. And once again, people are pushing him around to MAKE A DECISION FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. He knows that the world Maruki is making isn't right, because it's just another form of imprisonment, but imagine going outside and seeing the friends you've made over the course of this journey, who've struggled and grieved, completely and totally happy. And you're the one who has to burst that bubble. Bring back the reality full of pain and suffering, or let everyone live in a false reality, but happy. That's a burden that would break even a normal person, imagine loading that onto someone who has trauma from the choice they made. THAT'S why Maruki puts Joker to sleep if we miss the deadline. We prove that we're PARALYZED by the choice. We can't take away our friends' happiness but we also can't bear to just watch on and smile in this false reality while being fully aware that it's false, because Maruki refuses to force us into this reality and essentially puppet us around. So, the only way out is just blissful unconsciousness, where we won't ever have to think or dwell on the decision. It's a completely understandable choice of mercy for a normal person to spare Joker from pain. It's like euthanizing your pet because you understand that it would just be painful for them to continue living.
as someone that suffers from a condition that cant be cured and can leave me paralyzed for the rest of my life.. not to mention abuse from parents and supposed friends (one that SA'D me and forced me to remain friends with them by threatning me with their family's shady connections.) Maruki's character and goal was something that brought me to tears and made me agree with his character's goals... I wouldnt want anyone else to suffer like that
me too. I know that a lot of people in my family have suffered. I struggle to find reasons to go on every single day. If my loved ones died, I personally wouldn’t see that as “growth.” What would we gain from that?
@@clapped-cheeks Exactly! I think he should have tried to see it from more than just the main charas side? And I really hope that things get better for you... a lot of people have probably already said it you; But you are so strong for the fact that you KEEP going! T_T Know that at least one random person on the internet is gonna be cheering for you and hoping you are doing ok.
You need happiness, and you need pain. A world in which there is no pain at all would be completely static and no real long-term happiness (a hell in my personal opinion). Obviously, a world were pain and suffering in maximum would be hell. Pain and failure Is abousotely necessary for long-term happiness and personal growth. Tragedy Is different than normal pain however, and unless you have good support around you, it can cause you harm in personal growth. But if you do have good support, i genuinely believe there will be positive personal growth given enough time
I agree and I think it's pretty easy for anyone who has a less fortunate time in this world to agree with Maruki's goals. Marukis dream would require us to sacrifice our free will and for most people who have suffered hardships that are to much or left a major impact on our lives this is a relatively easy choice and most would take his deal. The people who will suffer the most from this deal and lack of free will is the people who are already privileged and have had the possibility to bounce back from hardships. This isn't possible for many. I read in another video a few year ago this (paraphrasing). "Imagine a mother who loves her family more than anything in the world. She and her family went out on an outing was in a car accident and everyone in her family dies from it while the mother was left alive but horribly disabled and disfigured. This is a hardship that's to much for her to bear and she will never recover and will forever be depressed and will die alone. How could you ever say that she shouldn't accept Maruki's deal and how if you were given the choice, how would ever be able to morally justify letting this mother, and so many more who are in similar hardships, suffer so greatly for your own free will?"
@@ggexgaming6020 The problem is that the majority of the worlds population lives in "maximum pain and suffering" where a single screw up will most likely mean death through one way or another. That's how capitalism operates currently. The wealthy oppress the poor (cacao slave farmers, child cobalt miner, etc) for their own benefit and at the expense of the poor. Safety equipment isn't provided or safety regulation isn't followed for many to cut corners and make more money. Maruki's deal will only ever be a bad thing for the already privileged that is afforded the support and help necessary to recover from these hardships
Takuto Maruki is incredible. His motives are just, wanting everyone to just, have everything they want and be happy, create a perfect world without strife. But the ends don't justify the means. The whole time leading up to the decision, I was constantly asking myself, "Do I really WANT to stop him? Do I WANT to break this world of happy endings? Sure, it's uncanny, and this means their struggles were pointless, but everyone is HAPPY. Is freedom worth denying everyone what they desired?", questioning if I realy wanted to fight this Gentle Madman. Until finally, I decided, yes, not only will I fight, but I SHOULD fight, because the struggle makes success all the sweeter. His words are sweet, but you have to Keep Your Faith in your reasons to fight. Maruki is a fun juxtaposition of Yaldabaoth because, while Yaldabaoth wanted to strip humanity of their wayward desires, Maruki wanted to fulfill those desires. Yet, at the end, they had the same goal: The pacification of humanity. To strip them of their individuality and leave them another shadow amongst the masses. To leave them in a state where they were happy to live under a ruler, to have someone else do all the thinking for them. To blur the line between The Ideal And The Real Yaldabaoth attempted to do it by force, ripping the desires from humanity and eradicating the phantom thieves from existence. Maruki wanted to do it diplomatically, by granting those same desires and dissolving the phantom thieves due to a lack of need. Maruki is my absolute favorite villain I've seen in anything, and, frankly, probably the best part of Persona 5 Royal. He may be the god of control, and wield Azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, and yet, even in his utopia, the Councillor Of Sorrow still weeps
How easy it is to praise strength in individualism... And yet, not everyone in the world is made of that same stronger stuff. Not everyone has the strength or luxury to stand tall on their own, or the friends and connections to do it hand in hand with others. Its easy to believe it can be done, when that is the narrative the story pushes, and yet, its one upheld by protagonists with supernatural powers. The justice they carry out can only be done because they have those strengths and luxuries, but in the real world most don't. In some places, to rebel means nothing more than to die for nothing, for something that may never be held for generations to come. To leave those sorrows and troubles unaddressed when one has the power to help, that I think is the real evil. The strength the thieves champion isn't something that heights them, its something they have to draw up or be destroyed, but why then permit a world where being destroyed for being insufficient is something one must worry about to exist?
I'm glad someone else here is talking about this point. They might as well be telling every person in the world to "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" While they themselves needed magical powers to even fix their problems, without which they would of all suffered terrible fates. Even if Maruki's world wasn't perfect for everyone, it's still a better one and could be changed to be even better for everyone in the future. just like how we and they try to make our own world a better one.
It's for this reason that the "true" ending seems so fucking bleak to me. Yeah, it's good for the main cast, and I get why they'd disagree with Maruki, but to forever destroy the power that could easily fix all major systemic problems in the world _for eternity_ seems abhorrent to me.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is one of the major reasons why I side with Maruki and have become disillusioned with P5R’s story. The game insists that one can better themselves by overcoming pain and struggles, but it doesn’t have a sufficient answer to a question I frequently ask: *“What if you can’t?”* There are millions in this world who will never be free of their pain no matter how much willpower they have, and I think those folks should be prioritized. Because, if we don’t look out for the most unfortunate and miserable of us, then what kind of hellish world are we building? Definitely not one I’d want to live in, that’s for sure.
@alistairmarston9405 By the same token, there will be thousands that will be forced to give up their dreams because Maruki thought that their dream was too hard to achieve, thus forcing them to be neutered mentally. Don't those people deserve a chance to try for their dreams if they are willing to work for it.
@@bcmcbride518dreams don't matter, happiness is what matters. That's what people actually seek when they have and achieve dreams anyway. People are wired differently without having a choice in the first place, things that gives happiness to some people may not do the same to others, so changing what people feel happy with is not an issue
One detail i loved in P5R was that after Ann awakens her Persona; and leaves the palace, there's a blink-and-you-miss-it appearance of Maruki prior to his actual debut appearance much akin to how Haru and Makoto can be found in the h Shujin hallways and Library.
maruki is what personally pushed persona 5 royal as one of my favorite games of all time and i really can't stress enough how much of that was thanks to billy kametz' phenomenal performance. RIP you wonderful voice actor
Maruki is kinda the perfect final villain for P5, idk if it was something that was said in the game specifically but I remember a question that came up while going through his palace which was if Maruki is right about controlling the world then was fighting Yaldaboth a mistake. That line or reasoning stuck in my head the entire time I was fighting him for the first time.
@@Mangakamen Villains are bad people, even though they can believe to be doing right. Maruki isn't. He's not insane, he's not twisted. Not all antagonist are villains. Maruki is an example. L from Death Note is an antagonist, but that doesn't make him a villain. Being an antagonist depends on the perspective of the story, being a villain depends on the character's morality and mentality.
You keep saying this but Maruki already decided that he knew what was best for Kasumi even though she said she didn't want that, the same with the other Phantom Thieves and he was willing to ignore that. Sounds pretty villainous... Why are you ignoring that?
I would say the term Villain is relative and depends on how you define it. I don’t think there’s a right answer to whether Maruki is a villain or not and that it was targeted to being more on the philosophical side. This brings up the question of whether you believe intent or action is more important in defining a villain.
Oziach collab was a great touch , amazing choices aside I thank billy for voices this character because after a long time of watching anime & playing games . Iv never been been able to relate yet see the contradiction in one’s ideology still I found Maruki . There’s many villains/bosses that can make u question ur morals , desires and ideals but maruki was I’d say the biggest reason why I’ll never stop recommending this game as a jump off rpg for others . Not many games will ask u the question “ suffering , yes it’s necessary for one to grow but can u say honestly u would welcome it or reject the form it takes “ . No one knows the trails that will give ur personality & identity form but that’s what makes us , Us and maruki asked the question “wat if u get rewarded without suffering “ . Most would jump for that and some can see the monkey foot deal at ply . Thanks for the video as usually kamen , I love this game & character very much and may billy rest in peace his memory will be remembered forever in our phantom hearts ❤️ & Persona History 📚.
I agree that Maruki is a villain in the story but I also like how, as you said, he is someone who has good intentions but the actions he does aren't good. I only looked at a few scenes from P5 and have listen to people like you explain the story, and I always believed one of the big factors that prove his perfect world was flaw is the fact that Sumire is now Kasumi to everyone having her pretend to be her sister forever basically erasing the existence of a person.
There is a key point brought up throughout the entirety of this story arc: the role of pain and how much it stands to benefit us. Shared pain, shared trauma, this was a fold which allowed the party to come together in the first place. Everyone found a bond through supporting each other through their shared experiences. Removing this pain has massive repercussions on the reality Maruki wishes to create, as seen in the observation week, trying to remind each of Ren's friends how they all met gave way to the obvious cracks which allowed them to break through Maruki's reality. This third semester really hit me as someone who has avoided rejection from others; pre therapy me would have probably wanted Maruki to take this pain away. Going through the rest of the third semester to me looked at the role pain plays, and it predictably was a little tough to swallow. But that's okay. That was the beauty of the third semester: it showed while life is pretty hard, there are some good things about it which make it worth living.
Maruki is easily my favorite villain of this archetype and my 3rd favorite in general. The thing that really sells him is the time you spend just hanging out with him in the main game on top of his motivations. It's a lot more personal for him. Of course, there're all his contradictions and hypocrisy that make it even better. Despite the messed up stuff he does, though, I'd say he still has a much better track record than most villains of the archetype. He hasn't killed anyone, destroyed anything, or waged war on the world. Of course, I disagree with him, but I do occasionally wonder what a more constrained version of that world would be like. Someone who's fully self aware of what they're doing basically only goes after all the scum bags and major world problems. So basically the Phantom Thieves on a global scale and without their restrictions I guess.
Ah yes Sosuke Aizen.🗿 Not going to lie, I could have got swept up in his plans. He had the power to CREATE WORLDS people's ideal world and free them their pain. It's not inherently evil at all it's just really kind heart that wanted to get rid of the pain in the world good. Like what Obito tried to do it with the Infinite Tsukoyomi. But like a Naruto you got to take the suffering and sorrow, and move on to keep growing. Because if you just give it a shot, dreams can become reality to some extent. An antagonist yes, but villain no. Maruki is a misplaced hero👍😎
This third semester arc really hammered home how Persona is part of SMT. Aside from the early endings, I like how modern persona doesn't shame you for the choices you make and makes good arguments for the "bad endings". It also adds some excellent theory fuel for how the P3 and P4 casts have been impacted by maruki
I screwed up my first playthrough of royal and sold it so I never got the end. Until I rebought it. I got to Maruki when he passed. Idk why but, his lines just hit harder.
Just fully finished P5R finally and I loved Maruki's arc. Sad to find out the VA has passed away. These games have had such a big impact on me since I started playing them a few months ago, and he was one of my favorite characters.
I wouldn’t call him a villain since he isn’t evil, more like an antagonist. But yeah he’s definitely of the greatest antagonists I’ve seen in a video game. His motivations are understandable, his methods are questionable, and while the results that he wants to strive for is ultimately against the heroes, you could argue that it could be a good thing. Maruki has seen so much suffering and he wants it all to end, but he still must be stopped because he would be taking away the free will of humanity if he succeeds
He would also be taking away acually happiness and personal growth, which is why I strongly believe him as a villain. He has good means but has a bad end.
I feel that whenever someone says Maruki isn't a villain, they either didn't pay attention or willfully ignore his actual methods for creating a perfect world. One thing not touched upon in the video is if people fail to be rehabilitated, their cognition is forced to change entirely, effectively killing their sense of self and becoming something else entirely. That said, I can see people acknowledging Maruki's methods in totality as justified, because the world he makes is truly a beautiful lie. Anyone who has ever played the mainline SMT would realize this is a Law route but very well dressed and appealing to the eye. And the fact that people unapologetically agree with Maruki just shows how well-layered this topic truly is. Maruki isn't my favorite villain, as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person, but the topic of Maruki's perfect world is a compelling one that I always enjoy hearing others talk about.
He's more an Antagonist than full on Villain. A villain is more... Malicious in intent. His methods are not the most.... Morally correct to say the least, he doesn't want to hurt anyone
Or they say that because they know the definitions of Antagonist and Villain. Maruki isn't evil, selfish or malicious in his actions. He's misguided and has a warped view of his good intentions which is why he's an antagonist not a villain.
@@xyno2112 i was at the start, still wouldn't say he's a full on "Villain" a guy who got in over his head wíth power, yes, but for me a full on villain is someone who doesn't give the amount of... Care or remorse he does. If he kept up, he would have fully bloomed into one but thankfully, he got some sense which dials him down in my opinion. But again, my opinion, I can understand how someone wouldn't feel the same way
"as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person" And what makes growing as a person objectively correct over living without suffering? Who makes this judgement call? We do, humans, as fallible as Maruki himself. It isn't an objective point of view. Both yours, mine own and his are valid. It also has nothing to do with age. I am in my mid 30s, I don't claim to be more profoundly knowledgable about life and how it should be lived then anyone younger then myself. Maruki is not a villain by literary terms. He is the antithesis to the narratives views on authority, he does not fit the narratives earlier perspective on authority. His views are presented by the narrative as valid, simply by having the phantom thieves claim to not agree with his methodology rather then overtly say they are wrong. Never do they wholeheartedly condemn what he is doing, which means the PT's were the ones in the wrong by treating ALL authority as universally corrupt. The narrative itself is admitting to its flaws in storytelling prior to Royal's release. Never once did it provide a counter-argument. And indeed, Vanilla P5 was highly flawed with its presentation of authority as inherently villainous. The PT's, personally, do not feel comfortable living under his influence. And I would not either. We are all fallible, including him, and power will often corrupt. That is his only flaw, being human. Neither what he does and why he does it are wrong.
I decently appreciate how Maruki is the few cases of sympathetic Villain that feels believable that adds so much to the theme. Despite the range of such power, he was personally short sighted to an extent. (Or at least that's my interpretation at least, in case I missed the point)
1:10 Someone should try telling that to Atlus, seeing as they still haven't relented on disabling the share button. Not that them doing so was ever actually about spoilers but they no longer have that excuse.
34:15 I'd say that you're downplaying the 'wish fufillment' part waay to much, in Yaldabaoth's world, nothing changes, status quo is kept, and the people who where suffering are still suffering, the public woke up from that, saw a hell world covered in bones and promptly said "fuck that", I' hesitate to say that they would do the same for Maruki's World. Other than that, random people were straight up disappearing when Yaldabaoth merged mementos, compared to Maruki who did the exact opposite by straight up bringing people back to life, now to be fair, you could say that the personality wipes he does to people like Madarame, Akechi, and Kasumi are his version of the disappearances, but I'd consider mind control/personality changes with the ultimate intention for happiness as a lesser offence than death/non existence. Speaking of death, I wish the game focused on a consequence of the PTs rebelling, being that they now basically killed people who were brought back to life, and then dumped other people with let's say... extra shitty circumstances back into their personal hellhole, a big part of what irked me in this arc is that it keeps going on about growing from pain and harships when some of them are quite literally unescapable and/or would end in death. There are way too many people who would want Maruki's world over real life, even if they knew the full details, Maruki forced those who wanted the real world to live in his and even changed some of their personalities, and that's genuinely terrifying and disgusting, but the Phantom Theives also forced those who wanted Maruki's world back into the real world where they might have to deal with inescapable suffering. Regardless, I agree with 99% of what you said, Maruki really is an amazing villain, in fact, he is one of my favorite characters in all of media along with Lost Judgment' final boss, his arc is what elevated P5R to me from being slightly better than P4 to being top of the list even above P3.
I'm so glad I found this comment. I literally just beat P5R as of writing this, and yeah, the downplaying is crazy. Like yes I think we all would like a perfect world where your actual efforts and will is enough to overcome bad circumstances, but even Maruki knows that's not how reality works and that the average person would probably choose the wish fulfilment reality. Especially considered, we played in reality before it fully fused together.
34:34 thank GODDD i've been screaming about 6/8 for ages. Like Akechi hasn't even _shown up yet_ and Maruki's already giving us a pop quiz on the ideological through-lines of the last 3 bosses 🤓 Insane behaviour, total lack of self-awareness king 👑
Great video Kamen. Maruki was a great addition to the game for all the reasons you said. Even if I kind of had a feeling he was going to be an antagonist by the end I'm glad they actually made it a challenge of ideals and not just make him evil for the sake of evil.
I'd love to see you tackle DBZ villains. Not necessarily because of Toriyama, but because I feel like they get a lot of undeserved flack for being evil for the sake of it, when I think they're a perfect example of how to do that type of villain well and of why that whole mentality of what a good villain is/should be is flawed. At the very least, I think Frieza's worth talking about, especially given his entire role in Super.
Honestly...? I may have accepted the world he created. Some people just can't find happiness now matter how hard they try. The least they deserve is a daydream to find comfort in
Part of the reason why I personally don't few Maruki as a villain, is because of the scenes with Rumi. He is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of the everyone else. It makes him more self sacrificing and when the breakdown does happen as the tower is falling, one of his first things he rages out before striking you is Rumi's name. He wanted to be happy and be the selfish person, but chooses to ignore it for what he feels would be best for everyone else. Was he wrong in what he chose for everyone else? Yes. Is it foolish and misguided to think you can be the one to decide what others need for themselves? Absolutely. But Maruki was attempting to solve the world's problems in his own way, for the betterment. I compare Maruki to something like Magneto vs Dr Doom, where outside of their mindset and shortcomings, what they overall are trying to achieve is noble, it is good. And what makes them antagonists is how they're going about it is wrong, even if you can understand why they came to these conclusions. I see the label of villains are more entirely self centered and self obsessed like with Dr Doom. Doom is so obsessed with belittling Mr Fantastic that he ruins his own life and wastes all of his talents when he has been shown that he can easily make the world a much better place. He's stuck on his own pettiness and ego that makes him a villain while someone like Magneto is an antagonist trying to end oppression for mutants and humanity overall because he is a victim of it both as being a mutant himself and a jewish man who survived WW2. Magnet opposes the X-Men because they aren't choosing a path to true equality but are just trying to stick to the status quo by quietly sitting under the thumb of their oppressors, when that isn't an option for all mutants to even have like the majority of the X-Men have the ability to do. Maruki sits a lot closer to a Magneto than a Dr Doom to me.
I noticed something when I was playing persona 5 royals third semester again, I was going through the train station and I saw a homeless man. He asked if we knew why everyone was so happy all of a sudden. Maruki didn't make everyone's dreams come true, he didn't help someone who needed it most. It made me rethink Maruki 10 times over whenever I'd pass the homeless man
I find it interesting that when Maruki is pleading to your party members when you're fighting him, one of your actions are temporarily sealed. Be using certain kinds of skills, or even using recovery items, among other things.
Honestly I very much believe he’s a villain, since he’s literally forcing his will upon everyone in order to make a better world and is willing to get rid of or change anything that threaten’s said world. No matter how good or evil the individual is they’re still capable of being a villain whether they are aware of it or not.🐱
With how he helped his ex gf, it reminded of something. A man wants to save his beloved who was dying. He is told by a diaty to go to the underworld and gather water from the river Styx. He does so despite the danger and succeeds. After returning, he gives the water to his beloved, this saving her life. But she completely loses all her memories, including the ones of their loving bond. Maruki's actions are the same.
The game lays out maruki pretty well with his persona , Azathoth , the blind idiot god while trying to help people he destroys what makes them people along with the universe due to his own desires
Some thing interesting to point out is that makoto is Alive in the third semester. thanks to maruki . I do wonder now how many people will pick his reality after playing reload when hearing that.
@@aresrivera9744 The problem with that is that it would kinda end the world. His reality rewriting powers have not been proven to work on other Gods so there's no guarantee he simply made it so that Nyx would not attempt to end the world.
@@the_supern0va238 it’s not that hard tho . Erebus respond every year and is killed by Elizabeth. All maruki have to do is make the public unconscious “ MoMentos “ not desire death anymore and Erebus will lose his immortality just like Yaldabaoth. Plus Morgana himself says that all of reality is cognition nyx, yaldobaoth, Izanami everything is just a manifestation of humanity’s cognition not just a meta-versa which is why all of existence was re-created when joker defeated yaldobaoth
I agree with the video kind of, but that brings a bigger question of the phantom thieves also using their own sense of morality (despite it being commonplace nowadays) to change the world. Maruki does the same thing simply in a bigger scale. To say maruki is a villain is to also say that the phantom thieves are not unquestionably good. Still, maruki applies a universal condition of "goodness" and restoration based on people's own desires, while the PT take vigilante justice and post-hoc justify it with popular vote/approval. Phantom thieves using their own volition and judgement is no different from maruki. Perhaps this is the point , still them it devalues the entire core of the message of the first game about teenagers standing up for themselves.
Furthermore, phantom thieves with their power are an authority , far greater than even shido. That they don't exercise their newfound powers is a personal restraint.
For me, to count the fake reality ending as a possible canon thing like the devs said, they should of gave third senester akechi a palace to fight and make him submit instead of him basically just rolling over along with joker when he agrees to maruki's terms
I'd wavered a bunch of times back and forth on my stance on Maruki's deal. Rejected by principle of being the antagonist, accepted from seeing the results, rejected again cause freedom, and so on. But I think I eventually settled on accepting it. While it could certainly do with less happy pills on his part, being able to overwrite and fix pointless tragedy is just too good to pass up. Morgana's speech is nice and all, but it's no solace to those that have fallen terminally ill, or lost limbs, or whatever major upset impacted their lives. I suffered myself for a good long while and came out much stronger for it, but even knowing the results, I wouldn't do it again or wish it on anyone else. That isn't even touching what Kamen said about issues without a solution. Imagine prioritizing your own growth over being able to snap poverty, crime, war, and so many other fundamental issues out of existence. Sure, you can address some of those, but not easily, very much unlikely, and taking too long to save those in the now.
Absolutely agreed with your take on what makes him a villain. It's great that Maruki is a nice guy and has good relationships with the Phantom Thieves, but no one should be comfortable with anyone having full control of their lives and experiences! That's wild! Also he's a terrible therapist lol, which makes sense since he's really more of a researcher
Heroes do things that the story or audience view as positive. Villains do things that the story or audience view as negative. A hero with villainous motivations is an anti hero. A villain with heroic motivations is an anti villain. Protagonists drive the story forward as the primary point of view of the audience. Antagonists are the opposition to the protagonist. Hope this helps people who are confused.
Maruki's story always brings me to tears, due to the conflict and the question. I wish so much much of my friends and family didn't die or get hurt, yet its that suffering that made myself and those I know grow. I suck at drawing and game dev yet I still try, I PERSONALLY COULDN'T live in a world were the fame and talent were given to me on silver platter with no struggle, were nothing ever happens. I wouldn't be ME without my imperfections and pain. I chose the true end due these thoughts. He isn't just a villain yes but he is a as you say hypocritic! he has good intentions but those intentions ruin that growth that we humans desire. and so I continue and try, as I hope everyone does. wonderful video Manga Kamen. Id love to see both routes honestly, but more persona first wouldn't kill lol. Maruki is awesome!
if i had his powers I can honestly say i would give people the option to live in a false world i've been disabled all my life and with age my physical pain is only getting worse i can honestly say I would happily live in a false world with no disabilities but realize not everyone would agree
Maruaki a villain who on the surface level seams like he has good intentions but deep down he is just as bad as every other palace ruler you have stopped up to now. Something pointed out in fan fiction of all things is that the Phantom theives dreams (except Yusuke and Morganna) were build from the pain they faced. They didn't become Phantom Thieves without it as seen when you do meet the thieves in the ideal reality none of them join you so Joker is forced to team up with his dark rider counter part Akechi and the outcast Sumire. Also information that is completely missed in discussions is the thieves never directly wished for Maruaki's reality, after the thieves reunite Ryuji says that none of the thieves (except Morganna) had wished for their ideal fantasy so you were making the choice for them. Their real dreams where the dreams they told you the player in their confidants which are important for the third semester and make it much more impactful. In the end they felt guilty from falling into the dream world. Also when they finally defeating Maruaki they end up taking steps to achieve their real dreams. The dreams from the suffering they faced.
Personally i think Maruki is one of the only villains/antagonists in any video game media that could be good for society given before he has his powers and after he lost to the phantom thieves tho thats just me, also it would be interesting to hear u talk about Strega from persona 3
A noble goal with a foolish way of achieving it "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" For growth, there is need for pain, it is what brings change, lif isn't perfect, but we are here and meant to live it Cry, laugh, fail, try again, and when you get the result you want, that will give you satisfaction, and make you want another goal Well, in a way, we all can be a villain in someone else's story to a point... Who knows what others think after all, but focus on being the best version of you always, and never forget to take time for some self care as well Edit: Oh damn, he also used the quote, lol
I don't know if it was just me but I came so close to making the accept his reality choice, because Maruki as an antagonist felt more like a us vs them situation Maruki and what he was doing at the time of our interference was of good intent. But giving into him, you give up free will. This is where it becomes the issue, because if one day Maruki suddenly believed that people not suffering was transactional of sorts he could make everyone start suffering and order everyone around similar to the mementos god if he wanted, but still it was so hard to really face him because of just how pure his initial intentions are!
Thank you! I don't think I've ever seen Maruki as a villain summed up so well before. And I agree, he is a villain. One of the hardest ones to deal with; a villain you can see their reasons and even sympathize with...but are still absolutely a villain. I've never been able to choose to give into him but I have watch videos and they genuinely made me ill. To see the people you fought with, who had strove so far to rise above being used and controlled by the adults around them, happily unaware their autonomy was gone...I seriously thought I was going to being sick. The worse was Akechi. While also...VERY MUCH A VILLAIN - just because you can sympathize with him doesn't mean killing is suddenly okay!!!!!...he too had been fighting for control only to realize he'd blithely handed it over unawares. Seeing him turned into a puppet because you don't want him dead. I think I'd put him out of his misery myself in that case. Sorry. This turned long. All of this to say your video was absolutely incredible and Persona gave us not just the greatest villain but the one I can only beat with tears in my eyes. The truly best kind.
Another great vid. I couldn't really get into Persona as a game (not really my kinda game), but the story and characters of P5 and royal are fascinating to me. You and your team did a great job on this one Kamen and I look forward to what will come next.
Glad you got your channel back, Kamen. I reported it to UA-cam and left a note explaining what had happened to let them know you weren’t the one responsible since it upset me to see all your hard work potentially get lost to time thanks to a scummy crook.
As someone who.loves psychology and therapy, Dr. Maruki fillls me with instant rage because of the sheer number of rules and guidelines he breaks in order to use his fricked up little shortcut Dude doesn't even try to limit himself and move slowly to test the waters if his theory and what it might do in practice or what it implies Because getting Sumire to think she's Kasumi was DEEPLY fucked up on so many levels. And his sessions with the phantom thieves, aside from Joker, are very cringe worthy as well. But as a human being, I know I would have accepted his offer, because some of us are that weak.
Its wild that this game came out in the West during the start of the pandemic, a world that would soon suffer a future that feels bleak and uncertainty. Like it gives you an extended idea that the world is a cruel place and therefore makes you wanna run away from reality into a safe new world.
Man everytime I see/hear maruki pleading with the thieves during that fight I tear up, not out of sadness its just so powerful hearing their resolve after 100+ hours seeing them grow
I think one of the more intriguing things about maruki that i think is a plot hole is that shido never targeted him, like akechi low key should of been investigating him lol
Helps that Maruki’s a damn fine looking councilor. Like he is husbando material. Also while I understand where he's coming from, I do imagine he's going to run into the problem of conflicting wishes especially if he tries to do anything with the Persona 3 cast. Plus it's a dick move to put Akira/Ren into a constant state of sleep in the bad ending. Aside from that, I would be interested in seeing him return in a future spinoff. Would be interested in seeing what he’d be doing after Royal. Maybe since the Persona 3 cast are relevant again they could do a Persona 5 Arena
Maruki is a huge part of what drives P5R's third semester to being my single favorite arc/piece of content in the whole franchise. Ignoring the gameplay stuff like having one of the best bosses in the game (and one that's actually challenging on a first playthrough WITHOUT being annoying like Okumura), along with the best Palace by a landslide and being shockingly well paced for a game that otherwise has some major pacing issues. But beyond that, without Maruki (and also Sumire since she's my favorite character in the franchise but the video ain't about her) the third semester would probably fall flat. You've seen the Thieves tell him about their issues for the whole 100 hour long game so far, you've helped him with his research several times, and you know where he's coming from. His rise to antagonist is completely understandable from the very start, even if learning about Rumi later on helps you understand him better. He's one of the two Palace rulers who most players would have the opportunity to fully relate with, the other being Futaba (in theory at least, still might not be easy to relate to her), and that alone makes him a compelling antagonist. You can accept his deal and, and despite how much the game yells at you about it being a false good ending, you could theoretically be happy to end it there. Most people won't, but the opportunity is there. And then there's everything surrounding Maruki, like Billy Kametz being probably the perfect voice actor for him and Throw Away Your Mask perfectly showing the juxtaposition of Maruki's views and the means he's taken to fulfill those views (making it one of my tied 3 favorite Persona songs), which only help to elevate him. I love everything about the third semester and I'll always say its worth going through the whole P5 base game, even if I wish you could skip directly to it. It's been a year and 10 days to the date since I finished P5R (yeah I finished it on March 20th aka the last end game day, I swear I didn't plan that ahead of time) and I've been slowly working on a NG+ file, almost solely because I can't wait to re-experience this wonderful arc.
Eh I still think Adachi is the better villain because of how terrifyingly real he is. He's a great example of what would you turn out if you don't try to accept a new life. Being a city boy who worked his ass for a job only for him to be sent to the dull countryside where he doesn't bother to find something interesting until he is given something that he finds fun (the power to enter people and himself to the tv world) and basically everything that happened in P4 which reveals his inner villain. In many ways, villains like him are terrifying because his lack of a proper motive would mean he can do whatever he enjoys and would do everything as a means to keep amusing himself even if it means trying to prolong a serial murder case. I even think he is a better antithesis to Yu than Akechi is to Joker because Yu is exactly what Adachi isn't. He doesn't let the boring-ness of Inaba get to him and finds the fun in it through the friends he made there (literally his S links) while Akechi tries to do the similar, "one has friends but other doesn't" shtick but not much else proves that he's the ideal foil.
Maruki is awesome. And my bad, I just checked after watching the video. What the heck UA-cam!?! Someone's channel is taken by the wheel and you lack the quality control to nip the scammers in the bud. Not cool UA-cam, not cool.
I would love it if you did a full video on Tohru Adachi. The idea of a disillusioned everyman becoming a killer is a scary concept, and he even develops past this mindset a little in the Ultimax game.
Haven't watched the video yet. Just wanted to comment on the title. Isn't Maruki more of an antagonist? I wouldn't clarify him as a villain. You probably explained in the video. And I'll get to watching it
@narasnek I'd disagree. Yaldabaoth is a control god who played a pretense of a fair and honest game when, in actuality, he was rigging it from the start so that he'd always win. There's a reason his direct control being revoked improved everybody's lives. Maruki, on the other hand, genuinely lets the scenario play out. It's stated that he COULD have erased The Phantom Thieves the same way Yaldabaoth does, but he CHOOSES not to because he believes their justice, while opposed to his, is still worth fighting for. Yaldabaoth is violent the moment he's even remotely challenged by The Phantom Thieves. Maruki opts to give time to them so they could see his side of things, and even though there's no reason he HAS to fight them directly (he could disappear for all eternity and they'd never find him), he still is honest about the deadline he sets with them and that if they aren't convinced, he'd be willing to abide by his promise and come to blows. If anything, he'sthe polar opposite. Still wrong in that they both revoke free will for an inferior grand design, but he's not the same as Yaldabaoth.
Maruki's Happy Pscience. Also, do you remember how you talked about Dr. Maruki removing people's individuality if it would contradict his self-righteous goal of making a world where no one can suffer anymore? Well, I bet Maruki would probably remove every single queer and neurodivergent person and every single race in the world if it would mean that it could help everyone to stop suffering. I mean, some people would say that Maruki would never do that because he likes to think of himself as above that, but if Maruki was capable of attempting to wipe away a depressed Sumire in exchange for a happier Kasumi, I don't think that my bet would be so 1 in a million. Maybe he could just wipe away all prejudice and discrimination and make everyone be able to get what they want, but then all same-sex relationships would just be given and accepted, and there would be no more transgender people because everyone would be able to identify their gender perfectly and assign that person their gender whenever that person would want it without batting an eye. Maruki would probably Christianize a ton of religions and preserve a lot of history from other cultures, just picking out only what can produce the least amount of suffering, which would mean that he would have to wipe the very existence of the Aztecs and the Conquistadors from the face of the Earth and replace them with a more perfect civilization. He would probably get rid of either all neurodivergence or get rid of everything that could even make the neurodivergent ever really need to ask to be helped in the first place as they cruise all the way to wherever they want. He would probably convert everyone to the perfect height they want, he would convert everyone's reality to whatever he thinks they want and keep it all into a perfect system, before vanishing away and never coming back. More than anything else, I can tell that Maruki's "Reality" would be so unbelievably limited, ignorant, shortsighted, and prone to whitewashing, cis-het, and more beliefs centered around those things because, at the end of the day, Maruki is just one Japanese guy who grew up with a very specific psychology in a very specific culture with a very specific path and cannot fathom the greater picture, no human being can. All he could fathom is that pain exists, and he has been given a hammer to nail down every single piece of suffering in the world. I actually got into a bit of a skirmish with someone on the internet, and they argued that Maruki would delete all prejudice and discrimination as it would function antithetically to his vision for a suffer-less world. I however argued that it could be just as likely that Maruki would just delete all neurodivergence mostly because he would find it more trouble than it would be worth to allow someone to have mental conditions he probably has no understanding of as he has never experienced them. Overall, I find Maruki to be someone who despite his good intentions and his education, is still someone who fundamentally lacks integrity and responsibility for his arrogant and short-sighted actions. He is no therapist nor counselor, he is a brainwashing, guilt-tripping, and just overall scummy person who will justify all of his actions under his own human pretenses because at the end of the day he is just a human being.
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You should do video on villains of Valkyria Chronicles 4.
I loved the video however I have one argument. You said being a hypocrite is wrong but I think it's impossible to not be one. If you sit down and question yourself you will eventually find questions your 50/50 or unable to answer because it would be easier not to. My argument is it's impossible in life to not be a hypocrite as it's a morally gray area rather than a one sided bad area especially when it comes to positions in power.
You should make a video about Tohru adachi from persona 4
please do a video on Emet-Selch, the villain of Final Fantasy XIV shadowbringers and the much larger view we get on his life in Endwalker
In fact many of the villains of FF14 would make for good discussions in their own ways.@@destinyshand2049
Maruki: "All the world will be happy"
Joker: "How about Shido?"
Maruki: "Screw him"
Akechi: "THAT's the only thing I agree with you"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Shido yoinked his research paper so he took it personally,
hahaha! Okay, you get both a laugh and Like from me.
I know its not the topic of the video, but i love Akechi's stance on Maruki's ideology, which is basically
"Cool motive, still brainwashing"
Lovely. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
You know it's bad when you're agreeing with the literal murdering psychopath.
Well, its a major point
God i love Akechi in the third semester. All the swearing and yelling is so refreshing against Maruki's friendly nice guy talking.
@@rachelle364 he is the true igniter of the heist, calling out maruki on manipulation
RIP Billy Kametz man was a legend and will be missed
🫡
@@NicoTheCinderaceoh hey nico
i’ll never forget the guy, rest easy king
I'm still so sad about his passing. I met him at a convention in 2021 and he was so nice, taking the time to chat with me about Fire Emblem and Persona, and he signed my shirt of his Fire Emblem Three Houses character Ferdinand Von Aegir. His voice work was truly amazing, he was so passionate in all of his roles. Rest in peace
He was also the OG Voice for Naofumi in Shield Hero and Shin in 86ers. Man was amazing.
Doctor Maruki truly stands out from all the previous persona antagonists, he is neither a god, a murderer or a mentally unstable teenager, he is a normal man that only wants people to not suffer
And you know what's even more crazy about when he was doing his research? He got off easy, meanwhile Futaba's mom who was doing the same thing got assassinated for it.
The best villains are the manipulative type like Maruki and from my POV he wasn't sane at all, it was that he masked it with a happy face.
Lmao I was gonna say about "mentally unstable teenager"; Futaba had a Palace whose distortions were borne of grief & self-loathing for the mother she felt responsible for losing.
When it comes to "grief-distorted Palace Rulers with a connection to cognitive psience (stolen by Shido) and a Lovecraftian Persona", Maruki can have some parallels to Futaba in that regard......... after the fistfight he very much was on the route to suicide before Joker saved him, comparable to how Futaba's guilt & self-isolation almost drove her to the same.
I kinda like how their changes of heart accomplished a healthier emotional outlook for both of them; sure Maruki was definitely going to cause more damage than Futaba but seeing him happy in the end was a relief on its own for me😅
@@LunaP1 Wakaba was the biggest threat to Shido, so he had to get rid of her asap. Maruki probably wasn't even on his radar (since he wasn't researching cognitive psience for the government).
I mean, he's basically the "Lawful" path in SMT games. Not really a standout thing.
A line that I will always remember is from Morgana. He says that he acknowledges that many people would benefit from a world like this and sees where he's coming from even though he disagrees.
I also love how Maruki basically does the same. He says something like "the truth is, it is better for people to tackle their problems themselves. But reality doesn't always make that so feasible!"
@@xmant8842 Yeah, Maruki was such a well done character. I love this game so much!
Interestingly, accepting Maruki's deal isn't even a "bad ending". Contrary to popular belief, the devs don't consider accepting or rejecting him to be good or bad. They had it so both endings are the good ending.
@@SaiyanGamer95I think thats the devs leaving his game open for every interpretation and not being judgmental. The game its pretty clear which one its the good one: the one where Sumire and Akechi are not unnervingly happy meat-puppets, specially after being specific about upholding their will. The one were a "gentle madman" (literally the name of one the soundtracks for Maruki) dont tamper with the brains of everyone.
@@albertocruzado2899 Only reason Akechi came back from the dead, is because that was Joker's impossible wish. Like Futaba's impossible wish was to have Wakaba alive. When it makes it so sad Akechi is willing to undo his revival, for the greater good of mankind. As Maruki revealed himself how Akechi is back from the dead. Akechi may be insane, but he has some good morals. If sacrificing his existence is the price to pay for mankind to not be dictated by Maruki's false reality, he is willing to pay that price. Happiness should not be given, but rather earned. Without overcoming pain by one's own power, one cannot find true happiness. And sometimes, one needs to make sacrifices, to save those one loves from the pain. I suffer from emotional pain every day from my regrets from my past. Do I let that overpower me? No. I move on, keep living, despite constantly bearing that pain each day.
I think Maruku's Phase 2 being so much easier to fight helps emphasize how hypocritical he is as he mounts a stronger offense, only for it to fade due to how much he refuses to fight them
And by the time Adam Cadmon takes control of the situation, it was too late since they’ve already taken a beating and his first decision is to go so far on offense he’s actively lowering his defense
Something that highlights Sumire's importance to the story and Maruki, I think, is that she essentially acts as a test case for each side to prove their argument.
For the majority of the game, she is solidly in Camp Maruki, abandoning her identity as Sumire to act as Kasumi. This initially proves Maruki's point, as she was trapped in despair with no hope of recovery or completing the dream she shared with her sister. However, as you progress her confidant, it's shown that that happiness is short-term and stagnant. Sumire can pretend to be Kasumi, but she can't truly replicate her sister's performance, and thus can't fulfill their dream as she is.
It's only once Joker helps her face her grief and accept herself as Sumire that she begins to truly move forward. It took a lot of short-term pain, but she converted that pain into developing her gymnastics abilities and making true progress with her and her sister's dream.
Maruki has a compassionate goal, but only seeks short-term relief from tragedy that requires long-term healing. Under his rule, no one can truly grow like Sumire and the Phantom Thieves were able to. The Phantom Thieves may not be able to erase the trauma people suffer, but they can at least provide a chance for those victims to pick themselves back up and continue on under their own strength.
Sumire was the direct evidence for this.
Hell, it’s shown that personal demons can be the most threatening as the Phantom thieves would have died in futaba’s palace without her confronting the truth herself.
Its funny because Strikers deals with that same issue with Akira saying he will help those who never got a chance to be saved yet he used a little girl to capture the phantom theives and fight against her father, not to mention the other prison wardens being forced to stay in their trauma because of emma and him, i wont even get into the one that made emma she got off way too easy compared to the akira
And this is the main reason why Sumire’s my favorite Persona 5 character-she’s so damn good.
Also, she acknowledges Maruki’s actions did provide a short term bandage (she implies that she thinks she would’ve attempted to kill herself if she was still aware she was Sumire), but not the proper recovery she needed, and only finally started to move on with the help of the Phantom Thieves.
I love Sumire. Best Royal Trio member imo.
Maruki quickly became one of my favorite Persona characters in the entire series, moreso than my other favorite character, Adachi. RIP, Billy Kametz, you knocked this role outta the park.
In fact, you could say that Adachi and Yoshikage Kira are similar in a way that he's some nobody blending in with the crowd, along with his "Persona," no pun intended, of being a hapless goofball, comic relief detective who ends up accidentally leaking confidential information about the murders in Inaba, leading the investigation team into who their next victim will be.
Just finished Persona 5 Royal. I thought Maruki is a great antagonist. Partially because his offer is very tempting. It is such an ideal world, and his intentions are good for it. But besides just struggle, Maurki's plan removes choice. Your perfect life is what he thinks is best for you, to the point of you getting mind wiped and rewritten to believe its for your best. But love his dungeon design, great boss fight, and just a great conclusion to an already great story.
Worth nothing, I think his plan would fall apart eventually, as the expanding people could cause his perfect reality to fall. Trying to accommodate the rest of the world, I think would eventually stretch his mind too much, not even accounting for how exactly new children would complicate things. If you look around the world, you can see NPC's collapse from partying too much, talking about exhaustion from working too much, but they can't stop just because they are so happy doing it. I really like if you look, you can already see cracks starting to form in his perfect world. But I know its a rant all this, I really loved this game.
RIP Billy kametz. You were a great voice actor and you gave a fantastic performance as Maruki
I think it would’ve been like the Matrix.
Haven’t actually completed third semester yet, still going through it for a second time, still enjoyable even with IZUNAGINOOKAMIPICARO and ALL WILL BE REVEALED shouting from Joker. Just wasted another 100 hours into a second play through and I’m at Shido palace
It might interest you to know that technically speaking, there is no correct choice; both accepting and rejecting are equally valid. The devs themselves don't consider rejecting his proposal to be the good ending, nor is accepting his world the "bad ending". They're both the "True Endings".
@@SaiyanGamer95 I haven’t yet seen the video, but I feel kinda bad for Kasumi, as her storyline gets massively dropped after like first hour or so (even before Kamashida is getting taken down). She is quite interesting character, but her personality isn’t exactly revealed until MUCH later in the story.
Meanwhile Maruki’s character is really well-developed and you begin to sort of sympathise with the character. Kinda like Senator Armstrong, but his character actually gets developed throughout the game
@@justiceplay3518 Kasumi gets expanded upon a bit later when she first awakens to her Persona on October 3rd, but she opts to not join the Phantom Thieves. You do also get some scenes with her in Akechi's Confidant.
What I find disappointing is how much pre-released hyped her up. Not only did she get special attention, but they mentioned she dislikes the Phantom Thieves because she believes people should solve their own problems. But when she learns Joker is the leader of the Phantom Thieves, she doesn't join because she disagrees with them, but because she has other stuff going on. And, you know, she's only playable in the final dungeon, so you don't get much time to use her.
@@SaiyanGamer95 yeah, I haven’t seen much of pre-release hype around her, so I am still kinda disappointed that after October 3rd there’s so small amount of interaction with her (you could still go on the hangouts with her, but since before third semester you can get only rank 5 in her social link, it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Plus on first play-through you can’t really get a lot of confidants done since you need to also upgrade your skills, plus you dunno what confidant abilities actually do.
The Doc is such a phenomenal addition to P5, his palace theme is one of my favorites.
Rest in Peace Billy Kametz.
So here is my head canon.
The reason why Joker became aware of the altered reality is that Maruki made him aware to fulfill his real subconscious goal, that even he wasn’t aware of.
What Maruki really wanted all along was someone to talk to that understood him. That’s why to progress in his palace you must learn about his circumstances and pain.
Maruki is a person that, when in pain, will distract himself by trying to solve everyone else’s problems rather than sorting out his own baggage.
So when he got the powers of a god, that allowed him to do basically whatever and fulfill his every desire, he subconsciously made someone that could understand him and help him deal with reality.
Since he was already aware of how the Phantom Thief’s operate and was close to Joker in the first place, it makes sense that he would be made aware of the altered world and try to stop him.
In short the third semester is effectively Marukis subconsciousness and his active consciousness fighting for what he really wants. His active consciousness is trying to save the world as a distraction from his subconscious desire to let out his issues to someone.
That’s why stealing his treasure, which is a persons warped desires, is effectively allowing him to get his shit together
The therapist needs therapy. Holy shit.
And the final fist fight to help him relieve all the pent up feeling and emotion
It's a shame we had to beat him for him to mellow out. With the Phantom Thieve's collective conscience and Maruki's intelligence, they probably could have fixed their world while still allowing free choice. But Maruki was too far gone...
So the whole 'eternity of sleep for Joker' actually makes sense for Maruki to do.
From the very beginning, as their leader, Joker has had to be the one who makes the tough decisions for everyone. He had to be the active person who steps up and does the job before everyone else follows after him, which was practically TORTURE for him because the first time he ever made the decision to step into a major situation, he got screwed over because of Shido, so he has trauma from the thought of needing to act.
Now, after this entire journey of seeing adults abuse their power, to taking down a freaking God, it's not rocket science to say that Joker needs a fucking break. And what does he get instead? The knowledge that the counselor he opened up to is warping the reality they JUST fought to save, but into a totally blissful world where everyone gets what they want and are happy. And once again, people are pushing him around to MAKE A DECISION FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. He knows that the world Maruki is making isn't right, because it's just another form of imprisonment, but imagine going outside and seeing the friends you've made over the course of this journey, who've struggled and grieved, completely and totally happy. And you're the one who has to burst that bubble. Bring back the reality full of pain and suffering, or let everyone live in a false reality, but happy.
That's a burden that would break even a normal person, imagine loading that onto someone who has trauma from the choice they made.
THAT'S why Maruki puts Joker to sleep if we miss the deadline. We prove that we're PARALYZED by the choice. We can't take away our friends' happiness but we also can't bear to just watch on and smile in this false reality while being fully aware that it's false, because Maruki refuses to force us into this reality and essentially puppet us around. So, the only way out is just blissful unconsciousness, where we won't ever have to think or dwell on the decision. It's a completely understandable choice of mercy for a normal person to spare Joker from pain. It's like euthanizing your pet because you understand that it would just be painful for them to continue living.
as someone that suffers from a condition that cant be cured and can leave me paralyzed for the rest of my life.. not to mention abuse from parents and supposed friends (one that SA'D me and forced me to remain friends with them by threatning me with their family's shady connections.) Maruki's character and goal was something that brought me to tears and made me agree with his character's goals... I wouldnt want anyone else to suffer like that
me too. I know that a lot of people in my family have suffered. I struggle to find reasons to go on every single day. If my loved ones died, I personally wouldn’t see that as “growth.” What would we gain from that?
@@clapped-cheeks Exactly! I think he should have tried to see it from more than just the main charas side? And I really hope that things get better for you... a lot of people have probably already said it you; But you are so strong for the fact that you KEEP going! T_T Know that at least one random person on the internet is gonna be cheering for you and hoping you are doing ok.
You need happiness, and you need pain. A world in which there is no pain at all would be completely static and no real long-term happiness (a hell in my personal opinion). Obviously, a world were pain and suffering in maximum would be hell. Pain and failure Is abousotely necessary for long-term happiness and personal growth. Tragedy Is different than normal pain however, and unless you have good support around you, it can cause you harm in personal growth. But if you do have good support, i genuinely believe there will be positive personal growth given enough time
I agree and I think it's pretty easy for anyone who has a less fortunate time in this world to agree with Maruki's goals. Marukis dream would require us to sacrifice our free will and for most people who have suffered hardships that are to much or left a major impact on our lives this is a relatively easy choice and most would take his deal. The people who will suffer the most from this deal and lack of free will is the people who are already privileged and have had the possibility to bounce back from hardships. This isn't possible for many. I read in another video a few year ago this (paraphrasing). "Imagine a mother who loves her family more than anything in the world. She and her family went out on an outing was in a car accident and everyone in her family dies from it while the mother was left alive but horribly disabled and disfigured. This is a hardship that's to much for her to bear and she will never recover and will forever be depressed and will die alone. How could you ever say that she shouldn't accept Maruki's deal and how if you were given the choice, how would ever be able to morally justify letting this mother, and so many more who are in similar hardships, suffer so greatly for your own free will?"
@@ggexgaming6020 The problem is that the majority of the worlds population lives in "maximum pain and suffering" where a single screw up will most likely mean death through one way or another. That's how capitalism operates currently. The wealthy oppress the poor (cacao slave farmers, child cobalt miner, etc) for their own benefit and at the expense of the poor. Safety equipment isn't provided or safety regulation isn't followed for many to cut corners and make more money. Maruki's deal will only ever be a bad thing for the already privileged that is afforded the support and help necessary to recover from these hardships
Rest in peace Billy Kametz man. Such a legendary voice actor, who voiced amazing characters, and was gone way, way too soon 🕊️
Takuto Maruki is incredible. His motives are just, wanting everyone to just, have everything they want and be happy, create a perfect world without strife. But the ends don't justify the means. The whole time leading up to the decision, I was constantly asking myself, "Do I really WANT to stop him? Do I WANT to break this world of happy endings? Sure, it's uncanny, and this means their struggles were pointless, but everyone is HAPPY. Is freedom worth denying everyone what they desired?", questioning if I realy wanted to fight this Gentle Madman. Until finally, I decided, yes, not only will I fight, but I SHOULD fight, because the struggle makes success all the sweeter. His words are sweet, but you have to Keep Your Faith in your reasons to fight.
Maruki is a fun juxtaposition of Yaldabaoth because, while Yaldabaoth wanted to strip humanity of their wayward desires, Maruki wanted to fulfill those desires. Yet, at the end, they had the same goal: The pacification of humanity. To strip them of their individuality and leave them another shadow amongst the masses. To leave them in a state where they were happy to live under a ruler, to have someone else do all the thinking for them. To blur the line between The Ideal And The Real
Yaldabaoth attempted to do it by force, ripping the desires from humanity and eradicating the phantom thieves from existence. Maruki wanted to do it diplomatically, by granting those same desires and dissolving the phantom thieves due to a lack of need.
Maruki is my absolute favorite villain I've seen in anything, and, frankly, probably the best part of Persona 5 Royal. He may be the god of control, and wield Azathoth, the Blind Idiot God, and yet, even in his utopia, the Councillor Of Sorrow still weeps
How easy it is to praise strength in individualism... And yet, not everyone in the world is made of that same stronger stuff. Not everyone has the strength or luxury to stand tall on their own, or the friends and connections to do it hand in hand with others. Its easy to believe it can be done, when that is the narrative the story pushes, and yet, its one upheld by protagonists with supernatural powers. The justice they carry out can only be done because they have those strengths and luxuries, but in the real world most don't. In some places, to rebel means nothing more than to die for nothing, for something that may never be held for generations to come. To leave those sorrows and troubles unaddressed when one has the power to help, that I think is the real evil. The strength the thieves champion isn't something that heights them, its something they have to draw up or be destroyed, but why then permit a world where being destroyed for being insufficient is something one must worry about to exist?
I'm glad someone else here is talking about this point. They might as well be telling every person in the world to "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" While they themselves needed magical powers to even fix their problems, without which they would of all suffered terrible fates.
Even if Maruki's world wasn't perfect for everyone, it's still a better one and could be changed to be even better for everyone in the future. just like how we and they try to make our own world a better one.
It's for this reason that the "true" ending seems so fucking bleak to me. Yeah, it's good for the main cast, and I get why they'd disagree with Maruki, but to forever destroy the power that could easily fix all major systemic problems in the world _for eternity_ seems abhorrent to me.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. This is one of the major reasons why I side with Maruki and have become disillusioned with P5R’s story.
The game insists that one can better themselves by overcoming pain and struggles, but it doesn’t have a sufficient answer to a question I frequently ask: *“What if you can’t?”* There are millions in this world who will never be free of their pain no matter how much willpower they have, and I think those folks should be prioritized. Because, if we don’t look out for the most unfortunate and miserable of us, then what kind of hellish world are we building? Definitely not one I’d want to live in, that’s for sure.
@alistairmarston9405 By the same token, there will be thousands that will be forced to give up their dreams because Maruki thought that their dream was too hard to achieve, thus forcing them to be neutered mentally. Don't those people deserve a chance to try for their dreams if they are willing to work for it.
@@bcmcbride518dreams don't matter, happiness is what matters. That's what people actually seek when they have and achieve dreams anyway. People are wired differently without having a choice in the first place, things that gives happiness to some people may not do the same to others, so changing what people feel happy with is not an issue
..man, having played 13 sentals lately, ... billy is such a god damn legend, RIP you amazing ..gentle madman
One detail i loved in P5R was that after Ann awakens her Persona; and leaves the palace, there's a blink-and-you-miss-it appearance of Maruki prior to his actual debut appearance much akin to how Haru and Makoto can be found in the h Shujin hallways and Library.
Honestly I love that detail so much
You don't notice it at the time since he'd just seem like another unimportant npc in the background
Was about Time you made a „Villains done right“ Video about a video game villain.
This video does well enough, I'll do one on Sephiroth.
@@MangakamenNot yet please. Wait until the trilogy of the remakes are finished please.
maruki is what personally pushed persona 5 royal as one of my favorite games of all time and i really can't stress enough how much of that was thanks to billy kametz' phenomenal performance. RIP you wonderful voice actor
He was a great character and a phenomenal antagonist.
Rip Billy Kametz
Gone but not forgotten
Maruki is kinda the perfect final villain for P5, idk if it was something that was said in the game specifically but I remember a question that came up while going through his palace which was if Maruki is right about controlling the world then was fighting Yaldaboth a mistake. That line or reasoning stuck in my head the entire time I was fighting him for the first time.
He's no villain, he's an antagonist. Maruki is just a good man who pursues what he believes it's the right way to make everyone happy.
That doesn't mean he isn't a villain. Villains can believe what they're doing is in the right.
@@Mangakamen Villains are bad people, even though they can believe to be doing right. Maruki isn't. He's not insane, he's not twisted. Not all antagonist are villains. Maruki is an example. L from Death Note is an antagonist, but that doesn't make him a villain. Being an antagonist depends on the perspective of the story, being a villain depends on the character's morality and mentality.
You keep saying this but Maruki already decided that he knew what was best for Kasumi even though she said she didn't want that, the same with the other Phantom Thieves and he was willing to ignore that.
Sounds pretty villainous... Why are you ignoring that?
I would say the term Villain is relative and depends on how you define it. I don’t think there’s a right answer to whether Maruki is a villain or not and that it was targeted to being more on the philosophical side. This brings up the question of whether you believe intent or action is more important in defining a villain.
Oziach collab was a great touch , amazing choices aside I thank billy for voices this character because after a long time of watching anime & playing games . Iv never been been able to relate yet see the contradiction in one’s ideology still I found Maruki . There’s many villains/bosses that can make u question ur morals , desires and ideals but maruki was I’d say the biggest reason why I’ll never stop recommending this game as a jump off rpg for others . Not many games will ask u the question “ suffering , yes it’s necessary for one to grow but can u say honestly u would welcome it or reject the form it takes “ . No one knows the trails that will give ur personality & identity form but that’s what makes us , Us and maruki asked the question “wat if u get rewarded without suffering “ . Most would jump for that and some can see the monkey foot deal at ply .
Thanks for the video as usually kamen , I love this game & character very much and may billy rest in peace his memory will be remembered forever in our phantom hearts ❤️ & Persona History 📚.
Ahh maan so this is how I find out his VA died. RIP Billy. Part of why the character worked so well was his calming voice, it fit so perfectly.
I agree that Maruki is a villain in the story but I also like how, as you said, he is someone who has good intentions but the actions he does aren't good. I only looked at a few scenes from P5 and have listen to people like you explain the story, and I always believed one of the big factors that prove his perfect world was flaw is the fact that Sumire is now Kasumi to everyone having her pretend to be her sister forever basically erasing the existence of a person.
There is a key point brought up throughout the entirety of this story arc: the role of pain and how much it stands to benefit us. Shared pain, shared trauma, this was a fold which allowed the party to come together in the first place. Everyone found a bond through supporting each other through their shared experiences. Removing this pain has massive repercussions on the reality Maruki wishes to create, as seen in the observation week, trying to remind each of Ren's friends how they all met gave way to the obvious cracks which allowed them to break through Maruki's reality. This third semester really hit me as someone who has avoided rejection from others; pre therapy me would have probably wanted Maruki to take this pain away. Going through the rest of the third semester to me looked at the role pain plays, and it predictably was a little tough to swallow. But that's okay. That was the beauty of the third semester: it showed while life is pretty hard, there are some good things about it which make it worth living.
27:14
Life will change, THAT I BELIEVE
*I believe that it will change*
Thank you UA-cam for recommending me this video when I'm barely on the 2nd palace of the game. Real cool.
Sammmeeeeee
Maruki is easily my favorite villain of this archetype and my 3rd favorite in general. The thing that really sells him is the time you spend just hanging out with him in the main game on top of his motivations. It's a lot more personal for him. Of course, there're all his contradictions and hypocrisy that make it even better. Despite the messed up stuff he does, though, I'd say he still has a much better track record than most villains of the archetype. He hasn't killed anyone, destroyed anything, or waged war on the world. Of course, I disagree with him, but I do occasionally wonder what a more constrained version of that world would be like. Someone who's fully self aware of what they're doing basically only goes after all the scum bags and major world problems. So basically the Phantom Thieves on a global scale and without their restrictions I guess.
Ah yes Sosuke Aizen.🗿
Not going to lie, I could have got swept up in his plans. He had the power to CREATE WORLDS people's ideal world and free them their pain. It's not inherently evil at all it's just really kind heart that wanted to get rid of the pain in the world good. Like what Obito tried to do it with the Infinite Tsukoyomi. But like a Naruto you got to take the suffering and sorrow, and move on to keep growing. Because if you just give it a shot, dreams can become reality to some extent.
An antagonist yes, but villain no. Maruki is a misplaced hero👍😎
Heroes don't try and force others into their own perfect reality
Another great vid, Kamen! Billy did a fantastic job playing this good-minded villian! T.T
Channel's Back. YES.
Maruki actually had his persona and palace way before the god of control. It just got amplified.
... Yes, I pointed that out.
This third semester arc really hammered home how Persona is part of SMT. Aside from the early endings, I like how modern persona doesn't shame you for the choices you make and makes good arguments for the "bad endings". It also adds some excellent theory fuel for how the P3 and P4 casts have been impacted by maruki
I screwed up my first playthrough of royal and sold it so I never got the end. Until I rebought it. I got to Maruki when he passed. Idk why but, his lines just hit harder.
Billy Kametz is a voice actor who just can't be replaced.
Just fully finished P5R finally and I loved Maruki's arc. Sad to find out the VA has passed away. These games have had such a big impact on me since I started playing them a few months ago, and he was one of my favorite characters.
I wouldn’t call him a villain since he isn’t evil, more like an antagonist. But yeah he’s definitely of the greatest antagonists I’ve seen in a video game. His motivations are understandable, his methods are questionable, and while the results that he wants to strive for is ultimately against the heroes, you could argue that it could be a good thing. Maruki has seen so much suffering and he wants it all to end, but he still must be stopped because he would be taking away the free will of humanity if he succeeds
He would also be taking away acually happiness and personal growth, which is why I strongly believe him as a villain. He has good means but has a bad end.
I feel that whenever someone says Maruki isn't a villain, they either didn't pay attention or willfully ignore his actual methods for creating a perfect world. One thing not touched upon in the video is if people fail to be rehabilitated, their cognition is forced to change entirely, effectively killing their sense of self and becoming something else entirely.
That said, I can see people acknowledging Maruki's methods in totality as justified, because the world he makes is truly a beautiful lie. Anyone who has ever played the mainline SMT would realize this is a Law route but very well dressed and appealing to the eye. And the fact that people unapologetically agree with Maruki just shows how well-layered this topic truly is. Maruki isn't my favorite villain, as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person, but the topic of Maruki's perfect world is a compelling one that I always enjoy hearing others talk about.
He's more an Antagonist than full on Villain. A villain is more... Malicious in intent. His methods are not the most.... Morally correct to say the least, he doesn't want to hurt anyone
@@firepuppies4086 My guy did you not watch the video?
Or they say that because they know the definitions of Antagonist and Villain. Maruki isn't evil, selfish or malicious in his actions. He's misguided and has a warped view of his good intentions which is why he's an antagonist not a villain.
@@xyno2112 i was at the start, still wouldn't say he's a full on "Villain" a guy who got in over his head wíth power, yes, but for me a full on villain is someone who doesn't give the amount of... Care or remorse he does. If he kept up, he would have fully bloomed into one but thankfully, he got some sense which dials him down in my opinion. But again, my opinion, I can understand how someone wouldn't feel the same way
"as I'm old enough to understand that conflict is required in life to grow as a person"
And what makes growing as a person objectively correct over living without suffering? Who makes this judgement call? We do, humans, as fallible as Maruki himself. It isn't an objective point of view. Both yours, mine own and his are valid. It also has nothing to do with age. I am in my mid 30s, I don't claim to be more profoundly knowledgable about life and how it should be lived then anyone younger then myself.
Maruki is not a villain by literary terms. He is the antithesis to the narratives views on authority, he does not fit the narratives earlier perspective on authority. His views are presented by the narrative as valid, simply by having the phantom thieves claim to not agree with his methodology rather then overtly say they are wrong. Never do they wholeheartedly condemn what he is doing, which means the PT's were the ones in the wrong by treating ALL authority as universally corrupt. The narrative itself is admitting to its flaws in storytelling prior to Royal's release. Never once did it provide a counter-argument. And indeed, Vanilla P5 was highly flawed with its presentation of authority as inherently villainous.
The PT's, personally, do not feel comfortable living under his influence. And I would not either. We are all fallible, including him, and power will often corrupt. That is his only flaw, being human. Neither what he does and why he does it are wrong.
I decently appreciate how Maruki is the few cases of sympathetic Villain that feels believable that adds so much to the theme.
Despite the range of such power, he was personally short sighted to an extent. (Or at least that's my interpretation at least, in case I missed the point)
Hey, the channel is back nice!
Manga said on Twitter that he still doesn't have access
@@John-Stark UA-cam at least restored the videos back to normal.
1:10 Someone should try telling that to Atlus, seeing as they still haven't relented on disabling the share button. Not that them doing so was ever actually about spoilers but they no longer have that excuse.
34:15 I'd say that you're downplaying the 'wish fufillment' part waay to much, in Yaldabaoth's world, nothing changes, status quo is kept, and the people who where suffering are still suffering, the public woke up from that, saw a hell world covered in bones and promptly said "fuck that", I' hesitate to say that they would do the same for Maruki's World.
Other than that, random people were straight up disappearing when Yaldabaoth merged mementos, compared to Maruki who did the exact opposite by straight up bringing people back to life, now to be fair, you could say that the personality wipes he does to people like Madarame, Akechi, and Kasumi are his version of the disappearances, but I'd consider mind control/personality changes with the ultimate intention for happiness as a lesser offence than death/non existence.
Speaking of death, I wish the game focused on a consequence of the PTs rebelling, being that they now basically killed people who were brought back to life, and then dumped other people with let's say... extra shitty circumstances back into their personal hellhole, a big part of what irked me in this arc is that it keeps going on about growing from pain and harships when some of them are quite literally unescapable and/or would end in death.
There are way too many people who would want Maruki's world over real life, even if they knew the full details, Maruki forced those who wanted the real world to live in his and even changed some of their personalities, and that's genuinely terrifying and disgusting, but the Phantom Theives also forced those who wanted Maruki's world back into the real world where they might have to deal with inescapable suffering.
Regardless, I agree with 99% of what you said, Maruki really is an amazing villain, in fact, he is one of my favorite characters in all of media along with Lost Judgment' final boss, his arc is what elevated P5R to me from being slightly better than P4 to being top of the list even above P3.
I'm so glad I found this comment. I literally just beat P5R as of writing this, and yeah, the downplaying is crazy. Like yes I think we all would like a perfect world where your actual efforts and will is enough to overcome bad circumstances, but even Maruki knows that's not how reality works and that the average person would probably choose the wish fulfilment reality. Especially considered, we played in reality before it fully fused together.
34:34 thank GODDD i've been screaming about 6/8 for ages. Like Akechi hasn't even _shown up yet_ and Maruki's already giving us a pop quiz on the ideological through-lines of the last 3 bosses 🤓
Insane behaviour, total lack of self-awareness king 👑
Great video Kamen. Maruki was a great addition to the game for all the reasons you said. Even if I kind of had a feeling he was going to be an antagonist by the end I'm glad they actually made it a challenge of ideals and not just make him evil for the sake of evil.
I'd love to see you tackle DBZ villains. Not necessarily because of Toriyama, but because I feel like they get a lot of undeserved flack for being evil for the sake of it, when I think they're a perfect example of how to do that type of villain well and of why that whole mentality of what a good villain is/should be is flawed. At the very least, I think Frieza's worth talking about, especially given his entire role in Super.
Honestly...? I may have accepted the world he created. Some people just can't find happiness now matter how hard they try. The least they deserve is a daydream to find comfort in
Ah the channels back now. Goodie.
Billy kametz rest in peace🕊️ he was the greatest voice actor ever!😢❤
Why is he the best? Because his outfit is Dio’s THE WORLD!
Best Jojo villain = Best Persona villain.
Also Personas are Stands at home.
It all fits!
Let's not talk about the Crazy Diamond and The World similarities
@@firepuppies4086 Za Warudo.
@@firepuppies4086 I mean, Maruki even has the same (English) voice as Josuke
You think Dio is a better antagonist than Kira, Pucci, Valentine or Toruu?
@@missquake *YES* 🗿
Part of the reason why I personally don't few Maruki as a villain, is because of the scenes with Rumi. He is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of the everyone else. It makes him more self sacrificing and when the breakdown does happen as the tower is falling, one of his first things he rages out before striking you is Rumi's name. He wanted to be happy and be the selfish person, but chooses to ignore it for what he feels would be best for everyone else. Was he wrong in what he chose for everyone else? Yes. Is it foolish and misguided to think you can be the one to decide what others need for themselves? Absolutely. But Maruki was attempting to solve the world's problems in his own way, for the betterment.
I compare Maruki to something like Magneto vs Dr Doom, where outside of their mindset and shortcomings, what they overall are trying to achieve is noble, it is good. And what makes them antagonists is how they're going about it is wrong, even if you can understand why they came to these conclusions. I see the label of villains are more entirely self centered and self obsessed like with Dr Doom. Doom is so obsessed with belittling Mr Fantastic that he ruins his own life and wastes all of his talents when he has been shown that he can easily make the world a much better place. He's stuck on his own pettiness and ego that makes him a villain while someone like Magneto is an antagonist trying to end oppression for mutants and humanity overall because he is a victim of it both as being a mutant himself and a jewish man who survived WW2. Magnet opposes the X-Men because they aren't choosing a path to true equality but are just trying to stick to the status quo by quietly sitting under the thumb of their oppressors, when that isn't an option for all mutants to even have like the majority of the X-Men have the ability to do. Maruki sits a lot closer to a Magneto than a Dr Doom to me.
Takuto Maruki my beloved. ❤
Thank you for giving me even more brainworms about him!
Man. I knew this was gonna make me sad and remind me that a beloved VA is gone.
I noticed something when I was playing persona 5 royals third semester again, I was going through the train station and I saw a homeless man. He asked if we knew why everyone was so happy all of a sudden. Maruki didn't make everyone's dreams come true, he didn't help someone who needed it most. It made me rethink Maruki 10 times over whenever I'd pass the homeless man
I find it interesting that when Maruki is pleading to your party members when you're fighting him, one of your actions are temporarily sealed. Be using certain kinds of skills, or even using recovery items, among other things.
Yay he got his channel back
Honestly I very much believe he’s a villain, since he’s literally forcing his will upon everyone in order to make a better world and is willing to get rid of or change anything that threaten’s said world. No matter how good or evil the individual is they’re still capable of being a villain whether they are aware of it or not.🐱
With how he helped his ex gf, it reminded of something.
A man wants to save his beloved who was dying. He is told by a diaty to go to the underworld and gather water from the river Styx. He does so despite the danger and succeeds. After returning, he gives the water to his beloved, this saving her life. But she completely loses all her memories, including the ones of their loving bond.
Maruki's actions are the same.
The game lays out maruki pretty well with his persona , Azathoth , the blind idiot god while trying to help people he destroys what makes them people along with the universe due to his own desires
Some thing interesting to point out is that makoto is Alive in the third semester. thanks to maruki .
I do wonder now how many people will pick his reality after playing reload when hearing that.
Where is this shown, exactly?
@@the_supern0va238 maruki granted the wishes of everyone in Japan which would include sees and their greatest wish is to bring back him
@@aresrivera9744 The problem with that is that it would kinda end the world. His reality rewriting powers have not been proven to work on other Gods so there's no guarantee he simply made it so that Nyx would not attempt to end the world.
@@the_supern0va238 it’s not that hard tho .
Erebus respond every year and is killed by Elizabeth.
All maruki have to do is make the public unconscious “ MoMentos “ not desire death anymore and Erebus will lose his immortality just like Yaldabaoth.
Plus Morgana himself says that all of reality is cognition nyx, yaldobaoth, Izanami everything is just a manifestation of humanity’s cognition not just a meta-versa which is why all of existence was re-created when joker defeated yaldobaoth
I got chills hearing the lines in the first few seconds I hope Billy Kametz is in a better place now
I agree with the video kind of, but that brings a bigger question of the phantom thieves also using their own sense of morality (despite it being commonplace nowadays) to change the world. Maruki does the same thing simply in a bigger scale. To say maruki is a villain is to also say that the phantom thieves are not unquestionably good. Still, maruki applies a universal condition of "goodness" and restoration based on people's own desires, while the PT take vigilante justice and post-hoc justify it with popular vote/approval. Phantom thieves using their own volition and judgement is no different from maruki. Perhaps this is the point , still them it devalues the entire core of the message of the first game about teenagers standing up for themselves.
Furthermore, phantom thieves with their power are an authority , far greater than even shido. That they don't exercise their newfound powers is a personal restraint.
For me, to count the fake reality ending as a possible canon thing like the devs said, they should of gave third senester akechi a palace to fight and make him submit instead of him basically just rolling over along with joker when he agrees to maruki's terms
I'd wavered a bunch of times back and forth on my stance on Maruki's deal. Rejected by principle of being the antagonist, accepted from seeing the results, rejected again cause freedom, and so on. But I think I eventually settled on accepting it. While it could certainly do with less happy pills on his part, being able to overwrite and fix pointless tragedy is just too good to pass up. Morgana's speech is nice and all, but it's no solace to those that have fallen terminally ill, or lost limbs, or whatever major upset impacted their lives. I suffered myself for a good long while and came out much stronger for it, but even knowing the results, I wouldn't do it again or wish it on anyone else. That isn't even touching what Kamen said about issues without a solution. Imagine prioritizing your own growth over being able to snap poverty, crime, war, and so many other fundamental issues out of existence. Sure, you can address some of those, but not easily, very much unlikely, and taking too long to save those in the now.
the fact that i finally got around to play p5r like a week before this vid got uploaded and i'm like 3 palaces in and I see this vid got me heated.
Finally get to watch the video. First opened it in a tab, then the hack happened, saw it was up again that same evening, then the channel got deleted.
Absolutely agreed with your take on what makes him a villain. It's great that Maruki is a nice guy and has good relationships with the Phantom Thieves, but no one should be comfortable with anyone having full control of their lives and experiences! That's wild!
Also he's a terrible therapist lol, which makes sense since he's really more of a researcher
Heroes do things that the story or audience view as positive.
Villains do things that the story or audience view as negative.
A hero with villainous motivations is an anti hero.
A villain with heroic motivations is an anti villain.
Protagonists drive the story forward as the primary point of view of the audience.
Antagonists are the opposition to the protagonist.
Hope this helps people who are confused.
Maruki's story always brings me to tears, due to the conflict and the question. I wish so much much of my friends and family didn't die or get hurt, yet its that suffering that made myself and those I know grow. I suck at drawing and game dev yet I still try, I PERSONALLY COULDN'T live in a world were the fame and talent were given to me on silver platter with no struggle, were nothing ever happens. I wouldn't be ME without my imperfections and pain. I chose the true end due these thoughts. He isn't just a villain yes but he is a as you say hypocritic! he has good intentions but those intentions ruin that growth that we humans desire. and so I continue and try, as I hope everyone does. wonderful video Manga Kamen. Id love to see both routes honestly, but more persona first wouldn't kill lol. Maruki is awesome!
if i had his powers I can honestly say i would give people the option to live in a false world i've been disabled all my life and with age my physical pain is only getting worse i can honestly say I would happily live in a false world with no disabilities but realize not everyone would agree
Maruaki a villain who on the surface level seams like he has good intentions but deep down he is just as bad as every other palace ruler you have stopped up to now. Something pointed out in fan fiction of all things is that the Phantom theives dreams (except Yusuke and Morganna) were build from the pain they faced. They didn't become Phantom Thieves without it as seen when you do meet the thieves in the ideal reality none of them join you so Joker is forced to team up with his dark rider counter part Akechi and the outcast Sumire. Also information that is completely missed in discussions is the thieves never directly wished for Maruaki's reality, after the thieves reunite Ryuji says that none of the thieves (except Morganna) had wished for their ideal fantasy so you were making the choice for them. Their real dreams where the dreams they told you the player in their confidants which are important for the third semester and make it much more impactful. In the end they felt guilty from falling into the dream world. Also when they finally defeating Maruaki they end up taking steps to achieve their real dreams. The dreams from the suffering they faced.
Personally i think Maruki is one of the only villains/antagonists in any video game media that could be good for society given before he has his powers and after he lost to the phantom thieves tho thats just me, also it would be interesting to hear u talk about Strega from persona 3
He's the perfect antagonist ngl. I love him so much
37:36 "And Maruki?"
Image: Is Brilliant
XD
A noble goal with a foolish way of achieving it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
For growth, there is need for pain, it is what brings change, lif isn't perfect, but we are here and meant to live it
Cry, laugh, fail, try again, and when you get the result you want, that will give you satisfaction, and make you want another goal
Well, in a way, we all can be a villain in someone else's story to a point... Who knows what others think after all, but focus on being the best version of you always, and never forget to take time for some self care as well
Edit: Oh damn, he also used the quote, lol
He's back. Thank god.
To the cryptobros that are still here, kindly do yourselves a favor and leave the internet.
Commenting to help re-boost this vid in the algorithm
I didn't realize it, but Maruki's metaverse form looks like Za Warudo
One of the few honest and kind character ever created, I wish someday to be a character like him... Maybe even getting a job for helping people
rest in power Billy Kametz. Your impact will never be forgotten and we will miss you plenty
I don't know if it was just me but I came so close to making the accept his reality choice, because Maruki as an antagonist felt more like a us vs them situation Maruki and what he was doing at the time of our interference was of good intent. But giving into him, you give up free will. This is where it becomes the issue, because if one day Maruki suddenly believed that people not suffering was transactional of sorts he could make everyone start suffering and order everyone around similar to the mementos god if he wanted, but still it was so hard to really face him because of just how pure his initial intentions are!
Thank you! I don't think I've ever seen Maruki as a villain summed up so well before. And I agree, he is a villain. One of the hardest ones to deal with; a villain you can see their reasons and even sympathize with...but are still absolutely a villain. I've never been able to choose to give into him but I have watch videos and they genuinely made me ill. To see the people you fought with, who had strove so far to rise above being used and controlled by the adults around them, happily unaware their autonomy was gone...I seriously thought I was going to being sick. The worse was Akechi. While also...VERY MUCH A VILLAIN - just because you can sympathize with him doesn't mean killing is suddenly okay!!!!!...he too had been fighting for control only to realize he'd blithely handed it over unawares. Seeing him turned into a puppet because you don't want him dead. I think I'd put him out of his misery myself in that case.
Sorry. This turned long. All of this to say your video was absolutely incredible and Persona gave us not just the greatest villain but the one I can only beat with tears in my eyes.
The truly best kind.
Another great vid. I couldn't really get into Persona as a game (not really my kinda game), but the story and characters of P5 and royal are fascinating to me. You and your team did a great job on this one Kamen and I look forward to what will come next.
Glad you got your channel back, Kamen. I reported it to UA-cam and left a note explaining what had happened to let them know you weren’t the one responsible since it upset me to see all your hard work potentially get lost to time thanks to a scummy crook.
He dint. The hacker simply put the video back
@@pedrorosa9893 Nah, UA-cam put it back.
As someone who.loves psychology and therapy, Dr. Maruki fillls me with instant rage because of the sheer number of rules and guidelines he breaks in order to use his fricked up little shortcut
Dude doesn't even try to limit himself and move slowly to test the waters if his theory and what it might do in practice or what it implies
Because getting Sumire to think she's Kasumi was DEEPLY fucked up on so many levels.
And his sessions with the phantom thieves, aside from Joker, are very cringe worthy as well.
But as a human being, I know I would have accepted his offer, because some of us are that weak.
Its wild that this game came out in the West during the start of the pandemic, a world that would soon suffer a future that feels bleak and uncertainty. Like it gives you an extended idea that the world is a cruel place and therefore makes you wanna run away from reality into a safe new world.
Man everytime I see/hear maruki pleading with the thieves during that fight I tear up, not out of sadness its just so powerful hearing their resolve after 100+ hours seeing them grow
I think one of the more intriguing things about maruki that i think is a plot hole is that shido never targeted him, like akechi low key should of been investigating him lol
Adachi: “Personas greatest what now?”
JUST played through Person 5R. Perfect timing lol
Helps that Maruki’s a damn fine looking councilor. Like he is husbando material.
Also while I understand where he's coming from, I do imagine he's going to run into the problem of conflicting wishes especially if he tries to do anything with the Persona 3 cast. Plus it's a dick move to put Akira/Ren into a constant state of sleep in the bad ending.
Aside from that, I would be interested in seeing him return in a future spinoff. Would be interested in seeing what he’d be doing after Royal. Maybe since the Persona 3 cast are relevant again they could do a Persona 5 Arena
Maruki is a huge part of what drives P5R's third semester to being my single favorite arc/piece of content in the whole franchise. Ignoring the gameplay stuff like having one of the best bosses in the game (and one that's actually challenging on a first playthrough WITHOUT being annoying like Okumura), along with the best Palace by a landslide and being shockingly well paced for a game that otherwise has some major pacing issues. But beyond that, without Maruki (and also Sumire since she's my favorite character in the franchise but the video ain't about her) the third semester would probably fall flat. You've seen the Thieves tell him about their issues for the whole 100 hour long game so far, you've helped him with his research several times, and you know where he's coming from. His rise to antagonist is completely understandable from the very start, even if learning about Rumi later on helps you understand him better. He's one of the two Palace rulers who most players would have the opportunity to fully relate with, the other being Futaba (in theory at least, still might not be easy to relate to her), and that alone makes him a compelling antagonist. You can accept his deal and, and despite how much the game yells at you about it being a false good ending, you could theoretically be happy to end it there. Most people won't, but the opportunity is there. And then there's everything surrounding Maruki, like Billy Kametz being probably the perfect voice actor for him and Throw Away Your Mask perfectly showing the juxtaposition of Maruki's views and the means he's taken to fulfill those views (making it one of my tied 3 favorite Persona songs), which only help to elevate him. I love everything about the third semester and I'll always say its worth going through the whole P5 base game, even if I wish you could skip directly to it. It's been a year and 10 days to the date since I finished P5R (yeah I finished it on March 20th aka the last end game day, I swear I didn't plan that ahead of time) and I've been slowly working on a NG+ file, almost solely because I can't wait to re-experience this wonderful arc.
Eh I still think Adachi is the better villain because of how terrifyingly real he is. He's a great example of what would you turn out if you don't try to accept a new life. Being a city boy who worked his ass for a job only for him to be sent to the dull countryside where he doesn't bother to find something interesting until he is given something that he finds fun (the power to enter people and himself to the tv world) and basically everything that happened in P4 which reveals his inner villain. In many ways, villains like him are terrifying because his lack of a proper motive would mean he can do whatever he enjoys and would do everything as a means to keep amusing himself even if it means trying to prolong a serial murder case. I even think he is a better antithesis to Yu than Akechi is to Joker because Yu is exactly what Adachi isn't. He doesn't let the boring-ness of Inaba get to him and finds the fun in it through the friends he made there (literally his S links) while Akechi tries to do the similar, "one has friends but other doesn't" shtick but not much else proves that he's the ideal foil.
You cam do that stuff without committing murder
Maruki is awesome.
And my bad, I just checked after watching the video. What the heck UA-cam!?!
Someone's channel is taken by the wheel and you lack the quality control to nip the scammers in the bud. Not cool UA-cam, not cool.
I would love it if you did a full video on Tohru Adachi. The idea of a disillusioned everyman becoming a killer is a scary concept, and he even develops past this mindset a little in the Ultimax game.
Haven't watched the video yet. Just wanted to comment on the title. Isn't Maruki more of an antagonist? I wouldn't clarify him as a villain. You probably explained in the video. And I'll get to watching it
I was about to comment the same thing.
It’s been said to hell and back, sometimes it’s just easier to say villain lmfao
@joepo6522 okay. But Maruki isn't a villain is the thing. He's an antagonist
Saying that Maruki is not a villain is like saying that Yaldabaoth isn't a villain as they fulfill the same role.
@narasnek I'd disagree. Yaldabaoth is a control god who played a pretense of a fair and honest game when, in actuality, he was rigging it from the start so that he'd always win. There's a reason his direct control being revoked improved everybody's lives. Maruki, on the other hand, genuinely lets the scenario play out. It's stated that he COULD have erased The Phantom Thieves the same way Yaldabaoth does, but he CHOOSES not to because he believes their justice, while opposed to his, is still worth fighting for. Yaldabaoth is violent the moment he's even remotely challenged by The Phantom Thieves. Maruki opts to give time to them so they could see his side of things, and even though there's no reason he HAS to fight them directly (he could disappear for all eternity and they'd never find him), he still is honest about the deadline he sets with them and that if they aren't convinced, he'd be willing to abide by his promise and come to blows. If anything, he'sthe polar opposite. Still wrong in that they both revoke free will for an inferior grand design, but he's not the same as Yaldabaoth.
Everyone talks about Throw Your Mask Away, but the fact that his palace theme is literally called Gentle Madman kind of says it all.
Maruki's Happy Pscience.
Also, do you remember how you talked about Dr. Maruki removing people's individuality if it would contradict his self-righteous goal of making a world where no one can suffer anymore? Well, I bet Maruki would probably remove every single queer and neurodivergent person and every single race in the world if it would mean that it could help everyone to stop suffering. I mean, some people would say that Maruki would never do that because he likes to think of himself as above that, but if Maruki was capable of attempting to wipe away a depressed Sumire in exchange for a happier Kasumi, I don't think that my bet would be so 1 in a million. Maybe he could just wipe away all prejudice and discrimination and make everyone be able to get what they want, but then all same-sex relationships would just be given and accepted, and there would be no more transgender people because everyone would be able to identify their gender perfectly and assign that person their gender whenever that person would want it without batting an eye. Maruki would probably Christianize a ton of religions and preserve a lot of history from other cultures, just picking out only what can produce the least amount of suffering, which would mean that he would have to wipe the very existence of the Aztecs and the Conquistadors from the face of the Earth and replace them with a more perfect civilization. He would probably get rid of either all neurodivergence or get rid of everything that could even make the neurodivergent ever really need to ask to be helped in the first place as they cruise all the way to wherever they want. He would probably convert everyone to the perfect height they want, he would convert everyone's reality to whatever he thinks they want and keep it all into a perfect system, before vanishing away and never coming back.
More than anything else, I can tell that Maruki's "Reality" would be so unbelievably limited, ignorant, shortsighted, and prone to whitewashing, cis-het, and more beliefs centered around those things because, at the end of the day, Maruki is just one Japanese guy who grew up with a very specific psychology in a very specific culture with a very specific path and cannot fathom the greater picture, no human being can. All he could fathom is that pain exists, and he has been given a hammer to nail down every single piece of suffering in the world.
I actually got into a bit of a skirmish with someone on the internet, and they argued that Maruki would delete all prejudice and discrimination as it would function antithetically to his vision for a suffer-less world. I however argued that it could be just as likely that Maruki would just delete all neurodivergence mostly because he would find it more trouble than it would be worth to allow someone to have mental conditions he probably has no understanding of as he has never experienced them. Overall, I find Maruki to be someone who despite his good intentions and his education, is still someone who fundamentally lacks integrity and responsibility for his arrogant and short-sighted actions. He is no therapist nor counselor, he is a brainwashing, guilt-tripping, and just overall scummy person who will justify all of his actions under his own human pretenses because at the end of the day he is just a human being.
Maruki was really damn good