1:48:30 I agree, we fantasy readers have a warped sense of what short books are. For me everything under 600 is short and 600-700 is middle and 800+ is long🤣🤣
Darn auto correct. Meant nerd shirts not need shirts. I appreciate you two speaking about anxiety, and Allen being open about autism. It helps it all feel more common and less lonely
Oh NOW you want to read Perdido Jimmy! When I was the lone voice in the dark it wasn’t so appealing haha. Great discussion guys! Hillary jump into Ship of Magic already!
To note, there is a lot of debate about the validity of the Stanford prison experiments because of demand characteristics. Basically, a lot of researchers have said that the guards acted the way they did because that's what was expected of them, which made the experiment lean heavily towards what happened.
Yeah, super good point, I had read that as well. I wonder if they feel the same about the shock experiment I said. Still, an interesting thing to think about.
Elantris audiobook by graphic audio was fantastic for me, i have a hard time grasping sando’s character’s voice, and this helped alot. Finished it recently, really enjoyed it, i felt like it was Sanderson’s tightest story.
I really like the end of Elantris, but I was surprised you think it's his tightest story! Just because it's shorter and doesn't take as long? I felt it felt slightly unfinished at the end.
Final comment, Me and bookborn on the same page. My ADHD prevents me from audiobooking. But I also just don't have the attention span for listening to audiobook. Ex. I was listening to Last Argument because I was applying for jobs or something and I didn't want to lose my pace cause I was really enjoying it. Then it occurred to me, I have no fucking clue what has been going on the last three chapters cause I totally zoned out. I retain better on page and if I audiobook I maybe retain 25%. I have dogshit auditory retainability. I CAN however listen to Audible Shows
Lol this is MEEEE I have to listen to simpler books on audio or else I'm completely lost, and I have to be doing something absolutely mindless like folding laundry. Otherwise I've been listening for 20 minutes and realize I haven't actually been listening
@@Bookborn It has to be something like a show for me to listen. Like not book material. I wish I could enjoy audiobooks because everyone loves them but I have zero attention span for audiobooks I zone out within five minutes and start thinking about how cool that bird looks LOL
Same Jimmy, I'm burnout out on thick Fantasy books. To the point I'm not starting any new Fantasy series if the first book is already a 700+ page chunker. On kindle Grace of Kings is 701 pages, sorry. The only exceptions I'm willing to make are for 1) re-reads 2) Robin Hobb
Great discussion, although Allen is always fun, I also greatly enjoy your discussions with Bookborn. But you didnt mention malazan once (well once the bonehunters but you need to pay attention)... She read book 1 and stopped? I would really like to hear bookborn's thoughts about the second. A tv series in the malazan world is also great and can have spin off films like the chain of dogs and others.
Yeah, I read book 1 almost a decade ago and thought I was too stupid for it 😂 I enjoyed it, but felt so confused I didn't go on. Now that I know that's an ok feeling for Malazan, I do plan on picking it up again. It's just such an undertaking that I've been cautious to start!
Jimmy! I can only recommend reading Aspect Emperor closely together. I was caught up with the series when White-Luck Warrior came out and then waited for the next two books without rereading. Because of that some things flew over my head and I couldn't enjoy the ending as much as I could. But I think he did a marvellous job and I'm looking forward to rereading them eventually and getting as much out of them as I can. EDIT: Judging Eye is a little more adventurous and a little less philosophical but it will get progressively denser until the end.
Great conversation! I'm a big fan of the Witcher series (the books) and I always thought it's because I have the Dutch translations and I think those are done better? Still need to check the English translation to back this up lol. BUUUUT now I'm thinking it might be because I never player the games and thus didn't have any expectations or preformed image in my head? Maybe it's a mix of both. ... I am getting those new English editions though, they look way too good to pass by even if the translation is not it.
Something that haunts me is never getting to know how the original translation of something is. I've heard from people who can read both that the English translations aren't super great.
You two should watch the Attack on Titan anime, It's the superior version of the story, even the author Hajime Isayama has said so. In anime format, AoT is so much more grandiose. I do agree, it is one of the greatest stories I've had the privilege of experiencing.
One series that gets shorter as it goes is Song of the Shattered Sands by Bradley P. Beaulieu. Book 2 is almost 700 pages, but Book 5 is only 480-ish, and Book 6 is 400. I appreciate when an author just tells their story and doesn’t worry about hitting certain page counts
Really liked the Witcher short story collections. Blood of elves was fine for me. Time of contempt ok. Baptism of fire started good but I was so frustrated by the last 30% that I didn’t read on for a long time. Slogged through book 4 and didn’t try to read book 5 (spoiled myself and I wouldn’t have liked it). I was never in the mood to playing Witcher, because I don’t usually play story-driven games that much, but when the Remake comes out I’ll try Witcher 3 and see what all the fuzz is about. Also I love Last of Us 1, so I guess I just need a little time getting into it ;)
I'm with Bookborn, It's definitely a frustrating time to be a Star Wars fan, though I'm largely fed up with the discussions around Disney Star Wars. There are parts of Disney Star Wars I like but overall I'm not happy with the direction, they seem more concerned with quantity and I was disappointed they seemed more interested in covering familiar stories, so I don't watch much anymore, I'll mostly stick to the older films and the cartoons, and have largely stopped talking about it. BUT I'm happy for those that do like it. I'm jealous, I really am. Tbf I'm not big on the prequel films either so I'm being as fair as I can.
I feel the same way - jealous of people who enjoy it; not trying to take it away from them, but I just had to say something. The discourse is getting exhausting though - that always happens in big fandoms, I feel like.
Lol, the complaint about the episode length for Stranger Things season 4; episode 8 was nearly 90 minutes, and episode 9 was over 2 hours. Perhaps this is what happens when you have a contract for a number of episodes and don't want to trim a plot line...
Yeah, funnily enough I felt like there was easily 10-15 minutes they could trim from each of the first seven episodes, but I found episode 9, ridiculously long, pretty engaging and necessary for the entire thing.
@@Bookborn We never checked the running times before watching them, only the clock after we were done. They kept the tension up enough to make it so we didn't notice mid-watch so good on them for that. They did do the walking dead thing where they focused more on a minor character to give them some screen time before their demise, so it was less unexpected than it could have been.
Oh man AWFUL. I always have to say that caveat when I talk about how much that series means to me lol. Weirdly he was great at friendships. I wish he brought more of that to his romantic relationships.
I'm with Bookborn on Abercrombie. I was so-so on the first trilogy and didn't like BSC very much. But I enjoyed The Heroes and Red Country so I'm now I'm looking forward to Age of Madness. I hadn't thought about reading Sharp Ends first.....hmmm.....
Dresden is a great series that takes 4-8 book to start to get into, and book 10 is where most people really start to love the series. It's a series that changes so much over time, partially because the author himself has changed so much as he's grown up. I'd almost suggest skipping to book 10 if your alternative is never getting into the series. DF is one series where early books aren't on the level of most other fantasy that most of us read, but they are far more enjoyable on a reread imo. If you don't enjoy where the character is heading, however, then don't torture yourself with the buildup.
Audio is really the only way I can do re-reads. YA I can tolerate a whole lot more via audio (reading it the writing style that is uses always bothers me). Audio, sadly,. takes me forever, only on my commute and only about a hour a day.
Lol Manga has become a problem for me . Attack on Titans is fantastic. I just started omnibus 4. Also started spy family is fantastic ( wholesome and funny ) .My Vinland saga starts on Wednesday 😎 just waiting for the hard copy 2 to the show up and I picked up a few volumes of one piece. I have a problem haha.
I have ADHD so it's really easy for me to DNF. I DNFed Sandos books. I just can't get into him. I think it's the fact that I can't stand Sanderson's bland prose and his dialogue is not realistic to me. A lot of times I was like "Dude people don't talk like this!" Especially in Stormlight Shallan (or whatever her name is) her dialogue made put down my kobo (ereader) walk around my room and come back because her dialogue was so cringe.
@@thefantasynuttwork I think Sanderson is just not my guy. I've tried him multiple times because people I talk to say "You gotta read him. He's epic or he's gonna be the next Tolkien." Idk. Something about him just doesn't do it for me. It might also be that his books are just too big and nothing really happens lol. I also think the dialogue just drives me insane. I'm a dialogue/immersion guy and if doesn't feel realistic to me it just pulls me out.
I did NOT like the Heroes at all. First trilogy was amazing, BSC was my favorite of the standalones, Heroes dragged for me thought I Abercrombied-out tbh, Red Country I was back to loving an Abercrombie book, and the AoM trilogy was next level good.
@@thefantasynuttwork I can see Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy over taking the Abercrombie books. I'm liking everything I'm reading from her. But for the moment the First Law trilogy along with Age of Madness are the best trilogies for me!
Hilary is our hero, even though she has yet to start Liveships.... 👋
She's the GOAT
I SWEAR I'LL DO IT SOON 😂
1:48:30 I agree, we fantasy readers have a warped sense of what short books are. For me everything under 600 is short and 600-700 is middle and 800+ is long🤣🤣
Replacement Allen was a great guest. Enjoyed this chat
Thank you!
Thank you 🙏
Nerd shirts! I have my Labyrinth shirt and it’s sparked a few conversations which is so nice!
Darn auto correct. Meant nerd shirts not need shirts.
I appreciate you two speaking about anxiety, and Allen being open about autism. It helps it all feel more common and less lonely
So true about the nerdy shirts, one time I wore my Dune shirt and someone said to me "The spice must flow". I was the happiest woman alive! 😂
Hahaha
I love the constant Sword of Kaigen love from Hilary. In the middle of my reread and it's even better the second time.
It's incredible
It's just SO GOOD. I'll never stop obsessing over it!
@@Bookborn No complaints. It might be my favorite standalone.
Happy weekend reading to you!!! 🎥🎼
You too 😃
Oh NOW you want to read Perdido Jimmy! When I was the lone voice in the dark it wasn’t so appealing haha. Great discussion guys! Hillary jump into Ship of Magic already!
I've wanted to read it for a while 😜
To note, there is a lot of debate about the validity of the Stanford prison experiments because of demand characteristics. Basically, a lot of researchers have said that the guards acted the way they did because that's what was expected of them, which made the experiment lean heavily towards what happened.
Oh wow I hadn't heard that. I will definitely look that up and appreciate the information
Yeah, super good point, I had read that as well. I wonder if they feel the same about the shock experiment I said. Still, an interesting thing to think about.
Elantris audiobook by graphic audio was fantastic for me, i have a hard time grasping sando’s character’s voice, and this helped alot. Finished it recently, really enjoyed it, i felt like it was Sanderson’s tightest story.
Oh nice!
I really like the end of Elantris, but I was surprised you think it's his tightest story! Just because it's shorter and doesn't take as long? I felt it felt slightly unfinished at the end.
Great chat, 2 hours just flew by. Yeah I am with Jimmy, have like 90 physical books that I have not read, staring at me, everyday!
Thanks for watching 😁
the one redeeming quality of Kenobi is Vader saying "I killed Anakin Skywalker" because it makes Kenobi's lie to Luke the truth
Final comment,
Me and bookborn on the same page. My ADHD prevents me from audiobooking. But I also just don't have the attention span for listening to audiobook. Ex. I was listening to Last Argument because I was applying for jobs or something and I didn't want to lose my pace cause I was really enjoying it. Then it occurred to me, I have no fucking clue what has been going on the last three chapters cause I totally zoned out. I retain better on page and if I audiobook I maybe retain 25%. I have dogshit auditory retainability. I CAN however listen to Audible Shows
Lol this is MEEEE I have to listen to simpler books on audio or else I'm completely lost, and I have to be doing something absolutely mindless like folding laundry. Otherwise I've been listening for 20 minutes and realize I haven't actually been listening
@@Bookborn It has to be something like a show for me to listen. Like not book material. I wish I could enjoy audiobooks because everyone loves them but I have zero attention span for audiobooks I zone out within five minutes and start thinking about how cool that bird looks LOL
Same Jimmy, I'm burnout out on thick Fantasy books. To the point I'm not starting any new Fantasy series if the first book is already a 700+ page chunker.
On kindle Grace of Kings is 701 pages, sorry.
The only exceptions I'm willing to make are for
1) re-reads
2) Robin Hobb
👍👍
Great discussion, although Allen is always fun, I also greatly enjoy your discussions with Bookborn.
But you didnt mention malazan once (well once the bonehunters but you need to pay attention)... She read book 1 and stopped?
I would really like to hear bookborn's thoughts about the second.
A tv series in the malazan world is also great and can have spin off films like the chain of dogs and others.
That would be great
Yeah, I read book 1 almost a decade ago and thought I was too stupid for it 😂 I enjoyed it, but felt so confused I didn't go on. Now that I know that's an ok feeling for Malazan, I do plan on picking it up again. It's just such an undertaking that I've been cautious to start!
Jimmy! I can only recommend reading Aspect Emperor closely together. I was caught up with the series when White-Luck Warrior came out and then waited for the next two books without rereading. Because of that some things flew over my head and I couldn't enjoy the ending as much as I could. But I think he did a marvellous job and I'm looking forward to rereading them eventually and getting as much out of them as I can. EDIT: Judging Eye is a little more adventurous and a little less philosophical but it will get progressively denser until the end.
Uh oh, I thought Judging Eye was dense 😅
Great conversation! I'm a big fan of the Witcher series (the books) and I always thought it's because I have the Dutch translations and I think those are done better? Still need to check the English translation to back this up lol. BUUUUT now I'm thinking it might be because I never player the games and thus didn't have any expectations or preformed image in my head? Maybe it's a mix of both.
... I am getting those new English editions though, they look way too good to pass by even if the translation is not it.
I'm too excited for those illustrated editions
Something that haunts me is never getting to know how the original translation of something is. I've heard from people who can read both that the English translations aren't super great.
You two should watch the Attack on Titan anime, It's the superior version of the story, even the author Hajime Isayama has said so. In anime format, AoT is so much more grandiose. I do agree, it is one of the greatest stories I've had the privilege of experiencing.
You're clearly not wrong but I'm much more likely to read it than ever getting around to watching it so I'm going to at least try reading it first 😂
1:03:30 when I learn that I have a minority opinion I don't feel weird at all. I just think it weird that most people seem to have the wrong opinion 😁
Legends and lattes is very short book :),
wrote the comment 5 seconds before it was mentioned
Hahaha
One series that gets shorter as it goes is Song of the Shattered Sands by Bradley P. Beaulieu. Book 2 is almost 700 pages, but Book 5 is only 480-ish, and Book 6 is 400. I appreciate when an author just tells their story and doesn’t worry about hitting certain page counts
Ive heard that's really good
Really liked the Witcher short story collections. Blood of elves was fine for me. Time of contempt ok. Baptism of fire started good but I was so frustrated by the last 30% that I didn’t read on for a long time. Slogged through book 4 and didn’t try to read book 5 (spoiled myself and I wouldn’t have liked it).
I was never in the mood to playing Witcher, because I don’t usually play story-driven games that much, but when the Remake comes out I’ll try Witcher 3 and see what all the fuzz is about. Also I love Last of Us 1, so I guess I just need a little time getting into it ;)
I hope you love Witcher 3
best part of owning a house: not sharing walls with people
Facts
I'm with Bookborn, It's definitely a frustrating time to be a Star Wars fan, though I'm largely fed up with the discussions around Disney Star Wars.
There are parts of Disney Star Wars I like but overall I'm not happy with the direction, they seem more concerned with quantity and I was disappointed they seemed more interested in covering familiar stories, so I don't watch much anymore, I'll mostly stick to the older films and the cartoons, and have largely stopped talking about it. BUT I'm happy for those that do like it. I'm jealous, I really am.
Tbf I'm not big on the prequel films either so I'm being as fair as I can.
I feel the same way - jealous of people who enjoy it; not trying to take it away from them, but I just had to say something. The discourse is getting exhausting though - that always happens in big fandoms, I feel like.
I think it depends on where you started. If SW, ESB and RotJ were the ones you saw in the theatres, the rest is going to get the stink-eye.
Lol, the complaint about the episode length for Stranger Things season 4; episode 8 was nearly 90 minutes, and episode 9 was over 2 hours.
Perhaps this is what happens when you have a contract for a number of episodes and don't want to trim a plot line...
Yeah probably rather the artist idea finishes properly rather than cutting it short
@@thefantasynuttwork There are some definite skills in play to produce shows with a time constraint.
Yeah, funnily enough I felt like there was easily 10-15 minutes they could trim from each of the first seven episodes, but I found episode 9, ridiculously long, pretty engaging and necessary for the entire thing.
@@Bookborn We never checked the running times before watching them, only the clock after we were done. They kept the tension up enough to make it so we didn't notice mid-watch so good on them for that. They did do the walking dead thing where they focused more on a minor character to give them some screen time before their demise, so it was less unexpected than it could have been.
Wheel of Time is one of my favorite series of all time, that being said Robert Jordan was awful at writing romantic relationships.
He struggled haha
Oh man AWFUL. I always have to say that caveat when I talk about how much that series means to me lol. Weirdly he was great at friendships. I wish he brought more of that to his romantic relationships.
I'm with Bookborn on Abercrombie. I was so-so on the first trilogy and didn't like BSC very much. But I enjoyed The Heroes and Red Country so I'm now I'm looking forward to Age of Madness. I hadn't thought about reading Sharp Ends first.....hmmm.....
I think she liked the first trilogy a bit more but yeah, I loved all of them 😅
I am saving Sharp Ends because I've read all of Abercrombie and I'll have no Abercrombie left if I read Sharp Ends lol
Dresden is a great series that takes 4-8 book to start to get into, and book 10 is where most people really start to love the series. It's a series that changes so much over time, partially because the author himself has changed so much as he's grown up.
I'd almost suggest skipping to book 10 if your alternative is never getting into the series. DF is one series where early books aren't on the level of most other fantasy that most of us read, but they are far more enjoyable on a reread imo. If you don't enjoy where the character is heading, however, then don't torture yourself with the buildup.
Good to know! I'm on book 5 and having a good time
Audio is really the only way I can do re-reads. YA I can tolerate a whole lot more via audio (reading it the writing style that is uses always bothers me). Audio, sadly,. takes me forever, only on my commute and only about a hour a day.
Yeah if I read a book exclusively on audio it takes me way longer
Lol Manga has become a problem for me . Attack on Titans is fantastic. I just started omnibus 4. Also started spy family is fantastic ( wholesome and funny ) .My Vinland saga starts on Wednesday 😎 just waiting for the hard copy 2 to the show up and I picked up a few volumes of one piece. I have a problem haha.
You and I both, brother. I've been having so much fun diving in
I have ADHD so it's really easy for me to DNF. I DNFed Sandos books. I just can't get into him. I think it's the fact that I can't stand Sanderson's bland prose and his dialogue is not realistic to me. A lot of times I was like "Dude people don't talk like this!" Especially in Stormlight Shallan (or whatever her name is) her dialogue made put down my kobo (ereader) walk around my room and come back because her dialogue was so cringe.
I've heard that complaint of Shallan a lot
@@thefantasynuttwork I think Sanderson is just not my guy. I've tried him multiple times because people I talk to say "You gotta read him. He's epic or he's gonna be the next Tolkien." Idk. Something about him just doesn't do it for me. It might also be that his books are just too big and nothing really happens lol. I also think the dialogue just drives me insane. I'm a dialogue/immersion guy and if doesn't feel realistic to me it just pulls me out.
Honestly I've never been much of a fan of Cleganbowl. Always seemed too cliché to me.
I did NOT like the Heroes at all. First trilogy was amazing, BSC was my favorite of the standalones, Heroes dragged for me thought I Abercrombied-out tbh, Red Country I was back to loving an Abercrombie book, and the AoM trilogy was next level good.
It's wild how varied everyone's experiences are with the standalones. I'm glad you liked AoM!
@@thefantasynuttwork I can see Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy over taking the Abercrombie books. I'm liking everything I'm reading from her. But for the moment the First Law trilogy along with Age of Madness are the best trilogies for me!