The difference between two monster loudspeakers
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Two of the greatest loudspeakers ever built are the Infinity IRS V and its successor, the Genesis 1, both designed by the legendary Arnie Nudell. What are the differences between these two monster speakers? Have a question you'd like Paul to answer for you? Go to www.psaudio.com... and post it.
- Наука та технологія
I heard Bloody well right on the Original IRS in San Mateo HiFi around 1979.
That changed my life.
Thanks for all the great chats
I’m watching the older episodes that I missed . I really love listening to stories like this. Thanks
That is an amazing recap of history Mr. McGowan ( Paul).
You look so innocent... but the 12 channel amp to 12 bass drivers in the Genesis is pure kick ass evil. Kudos!
Contrary to what people think size DOES matter.No replacement for displacement
why I love planar speaker and rate amps by their weight
Thank you Paul, this seems to be one of my favorite pieces to date. It's much appreciated.
just started my audiophile stage again being out for 20 years so much has changed appreciate all your time you babe for ten me up to date
I remember once sitting on Santa's lap (I think I might have been too big as I think I was a teenager) and I asked him for a pair of Infinity IRS speakers. Well Santa never got me those speakers. But I did get to hear them twice.
I LOVED listening to your IRSVs on the 14th of March. I learned how poorly some of my favourite tracks were mastered, and loved listening to violins on it. Especially that one un released track.
Hi Paul, another great video, thanks! I have IRS Vs and have owned the Genesis IIs and 350SEs. The Gen IIs had carver ribbons and the 350SEs had the BG ribbons. I have also lived with Beta’s, RS-1s and 4.5s. I’ve always thought the EMIMs are just hard to beat. The IRS with 12 a side are indescribable in their authority and palpable sense of realism (as you know). I never thought the Carver and BGs could keep up with them in the multiple Genesis systems I’ve owned and heard. That along with Bob and Arnie’s new crossovers; I’d be very surprised if the Gen 1s bettered the IRS. I'm not surprised the woofers system is better as you say. I also agree with you about owning the IRS Vs which I’ve always lusted over. I’d love to hear the genesis 1s someday. Any idea on how many sets of Gen 1 that were made? Thanks again for the story!!
Met Bob Carver a few years ago and had the chance to hear so many cool stories about hid journey in audio.
To bad most his gear sucks ....my god veiled as heck
I was so inspired by the videos that you upload paul, i'd really love to own those high end music sytem that your company produces but i don't have the purchasing power to do so... so from watching youtube videos i just follow the designs and DIY the speakers in my garage..😬
Hope you inspire more people.😊
Paul I do hope you'll release an audio book version of Confessions of an Audiophile, narrated by your good self. You're a great story teller.
MrCatalysis101
THAT is a tremendous idea.
Thanks. Only makes sense to have a book about audio available as an audio book, IMHO. Also makes it easier to sell online from the PS Audio website, as another thought.
Gr8 idea! Please do, ur voice is like verbal Xanax!! Very relaxing/ calming and always makes me care bout what u hav 2 say!
So strange lets just go buy infinity cause paul likes them better. You dont say how good the compatition is Really..... Paul OMFG...
@@jeffdavis4794 Listen again,he clearly says the genesis 1 speakers had better dynamics but not by enough to replace the infinity IRS speakers
Just to say, it's always a joy to see you explain stuff about obviously a great passion of yours, and the people around it, and always with such a graceful attitude.
I too absolutely love the RS 5,If I remember right the first I heard of these speakers was in a hi-fi magazine that featured "Fabio" home stereo and he had a pair in his home in So Cal.
Paul - my favorite part of this, and I do think it's one of my favorite of this series, is when you explain in the end why you have a pair of Infinity's and not a pair of your own, better Genesis speakers - they're cool! It takes confidence to admit that!
Andy B
Good point, you're right.
Indeed refreshing to observe a high end audio enthusiast openly admit such rationale;
...because I've always wanted them and they're cool...
I experienced a pair of Carver amazing loud speakers driven by Silver Sevens back in the late 80s, it left quite the impression.
I was waiting for the 'Amazing Loudspeaker' to be brought up ! Bet there is a great story behind that which Paul most likely knows!
I did too, quite exceptional especially for its time.
Hey Paul, too funny I just came across you videos. I worked on a Stereo shop in Baltimore Md (Soundscape) our shop sold PS Audio we also sold the IRS speakers I believe we sold 3 pairs and we also sold Carver ALS both sizes. I remember those days both fondly and with some trepidation. How do you remember both the IRS beta and the Carver ALS amazing loudspeaker were very fragile and were very difficult to ship. I remember many a time going to a clients house to replace either email tweeters or the mid range because of the magnets and also the Carver because it was made with that piano finish the tweeter was very heavy and if you didn’t pack it the correct way and transport it vertically the tweeter section would snap off from the rest of the speaker. I remember running those on Conrad Johnson amplifiers for the mids and highs and we would use Aragon for the bass stacks. I remember one day you came into the shop mid80s to early 90s and also Bob Carver when he started his other company which was called Sunfire Ani flopped his 10 inch subwoofer on the counter. We set t in a system then proceeded to shake the entire building with it just amazing
incredible history of audio you laid out Paul, an honor for me to absorb this fantastic slice of audio history!
I just found this channel today and have been binge watching as well. Great content 👍
Thanks. I have always wondered how the IRS V stood up to contemporary speaker designs. I would love to see more videos like this. Another classic speaker that has be gone for some time is the Apogee ribbon speakers. I would be interested in hearing about your impressions of these and how they compare to contemporary speakers.
Me TOO! The Apogee speakers were different and I loved the sound those things produced, AND, I was always amazed by the amount of low end that came out of them !!!
Great stuff,could you possible show those Round Speakers in a future Video?Maybe a deeper revisit and description of their mojo?Keep up the good work.
They both seem quite fantastic. If I ever get near your facility, I definitely will come and take up your generous offer to hear the IRS-V.
Back in '97ish I was at the only entry level audio shop in the town I was in at the time. 2 employees; manager/salesman, and salesman. I mentioned to the manager (An Apogee Diva/Krell/AR/VPI owner) that the speakers in my last stereo were Genesis. He incredulously asked me, "You owned Genesis!?' And by his reaction, I said to him that I didn't think we were talking about the same company. We weren't. At the time, I hadn't heard of your company, and the speakers that I had had were Genesis Physics. A bit of a difference.
I've owned several Carver amps. The ones made in the mid 90's ( 760x, 753x, 500x) are really super amps. S/N 117db or 120db. They sound smooth and neutral. Lots of power, bridgeable for twice the power and they don't get hot! I love my Carver amps.
And I still can’t afford them today ! Great info thanks for telling the story.
Bob Carver used those neo magnets for designing and producing ribbons for his open baffle Carver Amazing speaker. Priced at about $ 2000 at that time those speakers are most innovative and natural sounding speakers ever. Carver used the ribbon first and you guys use them later on your own speakers
Yep those speakers were phenomenal.
Many snuff at them due to them not having the "right brand lable" but in the right room and set up, it destroyed the likes of Proac, Wilson's, Dynaudio, B&W, etc I had /heard. However, I believe they were technically not true ribbons.
Great talk about the monster speakers, thank you!
BTW, I would love to have or experience round speakers or spherical speakers!
JKP73 If I remember correctly they were shaped like a capital D if looked at from above.
I thought they were called them the IRS speakers.. Because? Amps would always find them very taxing? No? ;)
IRS stands for 'Infinity Reference Standard'. The big IRS speakers were originally only intended to be Infinity's reference to development their consumer speakers. But word soon got around, and the rest as they say is history...
😂😂😂 good one
Dude! What a great response!! I love it!!!
Very cool story. I have been a fan of yours for years. I sold the PS Audio line in my Florida store way back.
Outstanding video.... I love it.... Awesome Paul just awesome
Thanks for sharing with us that it's OK to be emotional about choosing speakers - LOL!
I own a pair infinity IL-40 speakers for about 18 years, they are great !
I really enjoyed this video Paul. Thank you.
I was a big fan of hi-fi audio back in the late 80s early 90s and have listened to all of these products that you mention. I actually own a PS Audio 200CX from the late 80s and it is a real workhorse of an amp that delivers solid bass. The Mirage speakers of my era were a true bipole radiator and once again delivered a great performance in that bass region and overall spaciousness, a real bargain.
I shopped everything including the Infiniti IRS products even though I could not really afford that level but it at least set a bar and here are some products that rivaled that bar, on a budget that is. Apogee, Scintillas what an amazing speaker, once the transformers are pulled out. I listened to the Scintillas being driven only by 4 Adcom 300-watt monos and it still was competitive with the IRS series. I won't say that Apogee was better just that it was competitive.
Another big winner was the Martin Logan CLS driven by an SP11 into a couple of AR monos and that produced an amazingly lifelike vocal presentation.
The final honorable mention goes to an amplifier the Threshold, stasis amps of that era was an underappreciated piece of technology that was the one thing I could find that would deliver grab you by the balls rock-solid bass.
The whole audiophile scene seems to have died and I would not even know where to go for high-end equipment today. Meanwhile, the old record collection sets in the basement waiting for a renaissance.
Hi, why you don't make longer videos? I believe that people who are interested in the topics you are debating, will be willing to listen for longer ... in this way you will be able to better explain some concepts/stories
No chance I WASN'T going to check out a video titled "comparing 2 monster speakers"! 👍
I would love to see some photos of those spherical speakers you mentioned...A quick search I just did didn't reap any rewards.
Also, I really enjoy your videos. Please keep them coming! :)
I refer IRS 5s to the Gen 1s too because of the looks!
Thank you for great video, as usual, with historical insight.. !!
I am currently reading 99 Percent true and I must say it's very good!! The rock salt story about the eggs is CLASSIC!!! Thanks for a great read!!
amazing videos!
I'm about to buy a pear of omegas, thats how I ended up here.
I'm so happy I did :)
Well done Paul :)
Paul,
A pet peeve of mine is to attempt to stop the proliferation of the term "ribbon" when incorrectly applied to a planar.
A ribbon is categorized as an foil element loosely suspended by its ends with magnets on either side.
A planar design is a conductor of foil, wire or otherwise attached to a stretched diaphragm driven by magnets from behind or as in a push pull, from the front as well. They really are different animals and each have advantages in their particular application.
Apogee's are known as ribbons, and the tweeter is a ribbon, but the woofer is most definitely a planar, as are EMIT's and EMIMS.
Dont get me started on Maggies term Quasi Ribbon !!
Regardless of what you may call them, the IRS's were and still are great speakers.
Quasi ribbon is coined by magnepan as they did came up with that design hence they can all it a turd if they even wanted too. Jim whiney barely get the credit he deserves. But doesn't mean you're wrong, you're not . It's a marketing term because most audiophiles are hell bend on the word "ribbon" in short it sells.
true ribbon are fragile and hard to implement in any design (need for resistance, via transformers or resistors when done cheap) and a puff of wind can render them useless. Let alone overdriving them (which is easy) I seen ribbons flutter in and out the gap like a limp noodle.
They do offer incredible detail and clarity, at cost of many other things. I would never choose true ribbon over planars. Way more versatile, easier to crossover, and don't suffer from fragility issues. And still beats any dome out there hands down , especially in the bigger magnepans models.
Doesn't mean if I ever get a chance to own a Tympani IV i won't 😆
@@MichelLinschoten I've owned Maggie 2.5R's and 3.3R's both excellent speakers. Jim Wineys design set the standard for performance for the dollar in the high end world. The line source ribbons are direct drive no transformer coupling, which was an innovation in design. To achieve an acceptable dcr they use an incredibly thin aluminum, around .00001" which makes the foil element very fragile. They crossed them over quite low, I personally would only use them above 4k, as you mention planars are better suited for lower frequencies. I guess they can call it whatever they like, at least its in the same design family. Better than mistaking an electrostat for a planar magnetic or visa versa, which are commonly transposed by people who should know better.
I have the Genesis 8300 and i love that speakers ❤️
Dammit Paul. I love you. Great stories always.
I have the Carver ALS speakers with those amazing ribbons! with dual 375W magnetic field amp TFM-35 ...
I am ready to buy the book !!!
Why do people give a thumbs down for?
Funny. I had just asked someone why rare earth magnets are not used in speakers, rather than ceramic magnets. It just seemed to me that a speaker using rare earth magnets would require less input from an amp to achieve the same output as a speaker using ceramic magnets. Am I right ?
Original Genesis was Genesis Physics with George Samuels. Good speakers too.
Paul said when get's tired of his infinity's he is going to give them to me!! Mine all mine😉
I love it!! Awesome story!! Great info!
Nicely said and done ...,,awesome paul
If you have a speaker with multiple drivers; isnt it a significant challenge to ensure the phase response is constant?, I have always thought fewer drivers of higher quality would exceed a multiple driver setup for that reason.
Also is the future using stiff materials like Aluminium for the cones combined with Neodymium magnets and large excursion surrounds and voice coils for bass?
Who else came here hoping to see the actual speakers?
Thank you Paul.
Speaking of speakers, still no update on the Manhattan Project for building your own.
Please let us know when your book is out...
I second that!
Hello I am a fan of Arnold and Paul all the way back to the 80's and AFN radio in Germany. I could only get 2B'S and 3B'S both were in a flood. I still have the 3B'S trying to hold them together with scotch tape, don't laugh that's the best I can do now. People like them, but I know what they were.
Hey Paul I got a chance to see a pair of IRS Vs back in the early 80s most intimidating speakers I had ever seen and ended up buying a pair of the IRS 3s
I heard three audio research amps per channel would work good with this system.
Paul your so interested loudspeakers you should try working for electro-voice MFG chances are you'd learn a lot its only a thought
Paul, what's the book you mentioned?
Why doesn't Harmon carry on the tradition of the Superior speaker design of the Infinity brand?
Vail Colorado is absolutely beautiful.
Gary Koh owns genesis now, I dare to state the current models of genesis would bury the IRS v. Especially his top model the genesis dragon..
That's cool Paul.
Wow. That's really cool man.
Did you ever have a chance to hear Ian Paisleys Mirage M1 or M3 speakers Paul
You got some systems there in in your company I would love to buy some ps equipment but don't wanna pay the extended rate over in canada
Can anyone point me to the original "round" speaker that Paul is referring to close to the beginning of this video?
Salesmen and their naming products XD
Super, SE, SX, 2000, 1500 etc.
I got a 200'. Oh only a 200?
Yeah but it cost 1500,-
Since it is a 200 SE
And you’re sticking to it?
hmmm are all the infinity not just plain planars ? called different but they are actually the same ?, no true ribbons there i believe , does the same go for the genesis ? By the way why would the owner want to beat his own company with a new company ?
I always notice those pretty rosewood speakers that are behind you in some of the videos (same location as the reel to reel deck). Those kind of have a rounded box. What are they, exactly?
Ofcource I havent lissent to the great infinitys but I see one problem. Mamy tweeters and midranges. Why not one tweeter and one midrange. Answare they had them in their lower end models. Thats not right ?
What about the "Genesis Prime" speakers that they sell nowadays with the IRS V/Genesis I design? Are they just as good?
It would bury the IRS v I have heard the prime /dragons those are insane
NOT THINKING OUT OF THE BOX. Just build a dedicated room on your house big enough to accommodate both systems! Bob Carver built great straight line preamps, but nothing ever comes close to the MATTES 200 SSA AMPLIFIER!
First 200 watt solid state amplifier ever built. Very very solid state sound also!
Thank Bob Caver...
Will you tell the story behind who owns Genesis speakers now and how that came about? Are they living up to the standard that was originally set?
I binge on ps audio videos too.
Scared to ask how much....😞
What a nice guy !
Turn that music up
Who is Gary Koh? There are Videos out there where he stating he designed Genesis speakers.
DigimaxPhoto the way he talks he designed the Genesis 1 speakers.
When you buy the company outright you own it . gary has done an exceptional job of carrying the tradition of making incredible speakers
Hm... I don`t think it is so complicated to sell round speakers to an audience... Just put the round speakers in a square box, and this is it! They will be heavy, and as I know, high-end stuff is also sold by the weight ;-)
OK, I know, 20 years later it is easy to be smart lol.....
Bet Arnie was a cool dude!
great story
you didn't even show the speakers.
Yet they were in the thumbnail. Reluctant thumbs down from me for an otherwise good video.
I never particularly liked the Carver ribbon drivers, but the concept was certainly sound.
Great engineers typically make poor businessmen.
it's all talk no sound! where is the comparison!
I owned a pair of Genesis V speakers. Probably the best set of speakers I have ever owned. When Genesis shut down in 2003, I sold them and have regretted it ever since.
Poor move right there ! Thats why we hoard certain gear for years, you will miss it once it is gone!
Gary Smith
I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not, however I believe I still have every single audio piece I've ever owned..., spanning 40yrs.
There, I've said it, my name is FOH, and I hoard audio gear.
HA, that is amazing FOH ! Good for you.... (O: Being a pro keyboardist, the same thing applies... I have two vintage synthesizers bought brand new in 1978 that I see are worth some BIG $$$ these days on eBay! I still won't part with them ! My oldest piece of audio gear is from 1973 when the QUAD fad started..........A Marantz 4140 quad integrated amp, AND a Sony Quad reel to reel (TC-388) bought the same day from the same store... Keep 'em so you don't kick your ass ((O:
notification squad!!
This is like reminiscing over Jay Leno's Lambo vs Ferrari. IOW, no one else actually owns these overpriced antiques anymore and most the legend is gone with modern day performance far eclipsing the old Ferrari 308 & these audio relics.
I heard the IRS system back in the early 80s. I was impressed by the size and the wood finish. But not so much with the sound.
They were loud. Very loud.
But also extremely bright.
It sounds like a teenager's car stereo from the 00s. Too much bass and too much treble.
The JBL D44000 Paragon sounds a LOT better than the Infinity IRS system. Plus the Paragon also has an attractive wood finish.
If I were wealthy I would much rather have a Paragon in my listening room than the IRS. Although I would probably end up hiring a professional to install a hidden sound system instead.
Maybe even two rooms. One with a loveseat and a super high-end stereo system in it. (Like the top of the line components from Technics, Clearaudio, or Rega.) And one with a dance floor, lighting effects, and a DJ booth. Although having two different rooms would make it hard to decide which room to keep your vinyl records in.
@Larry Niles
Yes, the size and loudness are impressive.
The sound quality is not unless you are a big fan of Smillie EQing.
If you like clear accurate audio or if you like warm audio you won't like the IRS system.
Smillie EQing is very popular with the masses, but not usually with audiophiles. The only reason they are even classified as audiophile equipment is their high price tag.
It's not even that hard to duplicate the sound nowadays at a fraction of the cost. Just buy a QSC, EV, JBL, or Yamaha PA system with 15" or 18" subs.
Crank some floyd
Ahh confessions of an audiophile like too many speakers too much sound for room lol
infinity owned by harman which is owned by Samsung
Not sure what your comment has to do with Paul and the IRS V as Arnie was the creator of the IRS V ......www.stereophile.com/content/arnie-nudell-infinity-genesis
alfaxspeedone just to let people know, it's a bit disturbing that more and more everything is getting monopolistic. If harman and infinity operate (independently) from Samsung, it's alright, but if not, what these great audio engineers might be saying is actually the big corporations speaking. Remember, there shouldn't be loudness war in audio, but it's there, it doesn't matter what the best of the best audio master guys want or people like Paul who care about good audio, at the end of the day it's what corporation thinks sells the best.
Question!....can you play some more uplifting music in your videos? The score you have chosen is just depressing as all get out! I just dont understand it!