You could just see legacy auto written all over his face.... didn't seem interested at all. I was thankful to hear Sunrun wouldn't be making the adapters though😁
@@bostondan77 Did he have more than one? Not sure why he is going on these calls if they don't have anything decided yet. Waste of everyone's time to give some generalities of intent.
Well done, Tom! Excellent questions. And asked honestly. One day I hope we can get the answers... "we're working diligently" isn't much of an answer. But that's what we've got!
I think the only question he answered was that Tesla will make the adapters. Otherwise, it sounded like a GM interview full of talking without saying anything. It was not at all like a Jim Farley / Ford interview.
Great job, Tom. You asked all the right questions. Too bad you didn't get many answers haha. I think you need to get this guy on the books for 6 months from now and ask all the same questions again 😆
Great interview, Tom! Clearly this is still a work in progress and’ll take longer to reach a settled state. It looks like the NACS-to-CCS adapter will pretty much be the magic dock adapter. Not sure about the plug n charge time table, though!
Amazing how many questions he wasn’t able to answer. Nice guy who cares about his work I’m sure, but there’s more to a good charging experience than just switching to NACS. Just goes to show how far ahead Tesla is in the whole ecosystem.
In that case I would have expected him to say “I don’t know” or “we haven’t decided yet,” but some of his answers sounded carefully crafted like a PR rep.
Yeah, they're not. Look at Europe, where governments but also privat investors and car companies started investing heavily into infrastructure and created at least 5-7 years ago the CCS network the US is lacking today. When Ford is saying "we have the biggest network in the US", it's just laughable. They could and should have invested e.g. into EA, when EA was looking for an investor. Tesla will always make the charging experience so much better for their own customers to have an edge over the competition - like they're doing in Europe with 500 vs 600A charging and not supporting 800/900V.
Another great video, TOM. I’m sorry there wasn’t very much news to report during the interview. The only really good nugget I got was from him saying Tesla will supply the adapters. I think that’s really big. That’s a big burden for Tesla to make sure they don’t send out faulty adapters. That’s a big incentive also for them to make sure they’re charging standard goes well into the future. 10 years from now when they will inevitably want to update the North American charging standard, they will have to consider very heavily how much this might affect people who will be given, these Tesla adapters if their adapters no longer work and they know it’s directly Tesla‘s fault. Ford or GM had contracted with a third-party to make these adapters and they started to fail or didn’t work, it would seem like those car makers shows profit over reliability. The complete onus is on Tesla to make sure these are high-quality.
It's somewhat of an easier burden because now they don't have to do all the work and absorb the costs to upgrade the supercharger network with magic docks. Even if Tesla sells the adaptor to the other automakers at cost, they will have successfully shifted that financial burden off their backs.
Give TOM the adapter the day before!! Hell, a week before. Let him go test this for all of us!! We can't have a ton of Ford and GM cars going to SCs and clogging them up figuring out the chargers!
What Ford can do to improve charging at non Tesla chargers is simple. Display reliability information in every Ford rolling around North America, like status available, charging, broken. Peak and average charge rate in the last 10 sessions, and dates. Also, did you schedule a followup interview 12 months out, and other interviews with GM, Tesla, VW, Stellantis? This interview idea is great!
Tom, you clearly asked questions he was not prepared to answer or ford did not think about. From my observation he will be going back tomorrow and researching many of the questions that you asked. Ford has a ton of work to do in a very short period of time.
Good questions. Thanks for acknowledging that NACS doesn't necessarily equal good experience if the infrastructure isn't rock solid. First-party Tesla Superchargers set an incredibly high bar for reliability, and no other company has proven they can match it yet. I'm hopeful they will, long term.
I was thinking the same. I think that’s be a smarter approach than retrofitting thousands of chargers with longer cables where they aren’t always needed.
Thanks Tom for pushing for this interview. I was surprised Ford was a little ambiguous about wether or not they’d have the CCS 1 and NACS plugs on there vehicles. I am almost positive they will only have the one NACS connector. It would cost a-lot to have both hardware integrated.
There's no real reason for them to have both. They're electrically and communication compatible. You would only need a relatively cheap passive adapter to plug into a CCS cable on a NACS car.
He answered it without answering. He said they are transitioning to NACS, which implies a full transition. He said adapters will be available on ‘both sides of the transition’. Meaning to give access for both ports to both types of cables. This would suggest there is no reason to think there will be two dcfc ports on one vehicle. I don’t see any benefit that would really even give that a simple (cheaper) adapter couldn’t do.
Thank you Ford for talking to your customers! I’m still peeved that my Lightning is past the 3 week mark at the shop waiting on a battery module but videos like this remind me of why I’m now a big Ford fan and will continue to eagerly wait for my truck!
Useful interview. I suggest that you work on shortening up your questions and put the burden for detail on the person you're interviewing. I several cases you feed him the answer, so all he has left to do it to give a corporate-speak, elliptical partial or non answer.
Whoa Tom, you are committing some serious journalism. Your questions had that Ford guy doing more bob and weave than Ali late in his career. My takes: 1) Lots of companies were talking to Tesla. Farley wanted the mantle of first mover and announced long before most details had been worked out. 2) In response, the other seven sent a big middle finger to Ford with their network announcement. 3) In reply, Farley said "eff me? no eff you." Interesting to see how this tussle plays out. PS: that dude is never coming on your channel again. Keep it up!
Great interviewing on your part. On Ford's part, I feel like this was a lot of nothing. I realize it comes with the situation of such interviews, but the level of corporate speak and talking points coming from Jeff I found a bit nauseating. Strip out "our customers" and this video would be 10 minutes I suspect.
Tesla released a license to build the NACS to Volex, a British LLC. The company says it’s ready to supply the NACS connector to automakers; Tesla must have been talking with Volex for a while about it.
Great job on asking all the right questions! Lots of dogging in the answers... Not too sure why. At least we know that Tesla will make the adapter. Thanks Tom!
I really love how Ford is handling this EV transition. Making their top tier people available to YTers like you and Munro Live is a major confidence builder.
Great interview Tom. One question to consider for next time - On what date do you think that decision will be made? Someone is managing this project and should have a detailed project plan mapping out all of the critical tasks and decisions. While dates might slip, they know what needs to happen and when. They still might be reluctant to share though. You might be able to pin them down to something more specific than early 2024. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Hi Tom, Thanks for getting this interview but next time tell them to provide someone that has answers. While I fully understand there could be open questions on the actual architecture of the vehicles in 2025 he should be more specific on software plans and adapter plans.
Fantastic interview. As a lightning owner with a home charger, I’m not too worried. But I do have to plan any road trips and hope and pray that the charger is working. Thankfully PlugShare helps with that. I do hope ford sends us the adapter though.
Great questions, Tom. The answers, however..... Sounds like Ford is still working through some of the issues, but you asked the questions that are on everybody's mind.
I can see why they've delayed interviews. "We have a plan, we are going to make a plan." You asked the right questions but they didn't give real answers. What answer did we want? "In addition to the CCS adapter on its current location we are looking at putting a NACS port so customers can have the best of both worlds." Even if they tied it to trim levels, "This feature will only be available on Lariat and above models." The answer I expected to get but didn't, "We aren't participating in another charging alliance because its not core to our business, our business is to provide the best vehicles in the industry." Its clear for Ford to be successful in the future they need to put the NACS port on one of the corners so its reachable by the very short cords. I wouldn't be surprised if the adapter for the lightning is not just an adapter but a short cable and adapter. It is also clear that in the future both Tesla and Ford are going to need more charging locations with truck pull through slots, so vehicles pulling a load don't have to unhook their load to charge.
One thing I'm curious about is that not every supercharger is going to be made available, namely the older V1/V2 sites that had 120/150 kW max charging (vs the V3's 250 kW max). Normally not a big deal because you wouldn't necessarily want to use the older ones due to their power sharing and slower charging speeds. But I've been to some superchargers where they had V3 installed nearby or next to the older stalls, such as Winnemucca, NV, and I think Lima, CO also has some V3's next to the V2's there. The V3's have the same communication protocols as CCS, which is probably why switching over should be a lot easier for other automakers. I hope that Tesla makes the signage clear that those superchargers aren't compatible with non-Tesla EV's, if they don't convert them to V3 anyway. Or just buy a Tesla and every supercharger will work with the vehicle, and you can always get a CCS/CHAdeMO adapter (though I don't recommend the latter because fewer sites, obsolete standard, it's more expensive, clunky adapter) to utilize other DC fast chargers. Regardless, this is exciting news for EV's in general, and should make it easier to own one for road trips or if you don't have home charging available, like apartment dwellers or people who only have side street parking. This will also allow Tesla to massively expand the supercharger network even further with funding from the US government. And with more automakers making NACS-compatible EV's, it should be easier to convince business owners to host a supercharger site, which means more places to charge for people over time.
Good questions! Seems like Ford wasn’t prepared for an interview. Again, EV consumers are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to aggregating information and offering ideas. If a Ford exc answered questions like this, is there any surprise my salesman, dealer and service are clueless about EVs.
Tom, I’m watching your video. Questions for another video. How does the change to NACS affect vehicle to grid and vehicle to home? I own a Volt and an ID.4. I am 65 years old, just retired, and don’t buy a lot of new vehicles- so maybe one or two more in my lifetime. The Volt and ID.4 were purchased to experience electric-replacing perfectly good ICE vehicles. Where I live, 5-9 pm are when the electric grid is stressed- as evidenced by electrical TOU rates. My 77 kWh ID.4 could easily supply the 5 kWh of electricity I’d like to use in my home during these hours. My ID.4 is supposed to have V2H hardware, but not software. You just addressed this for Ford in the video. Can you expand on this for other brands? I think it is criminal that every single EV does not do what the F150 does with outlets and V2H/G. Of course scaled for vehicle battery size. I don’t expect the same output from a 62kWh battery as from a 209 kWh battery. Thanks. I enjoy your videos.
Tom, the question not asked is will the charging planner in the Ford's navigation include Superchargers. He did mention they currently navigate to their own network and I'm okay if they include or even prioritize their network, but all NACS options should be available. I'm going to assume that it will happen, but I wanted to hear it from him
Great video. I wonder what the cost of the NACS upgrade will cost? Also will that fall under the tax credit too? So we can get 30% off on the back end?
Tom, that was a good interview; too bad you did not go back to the major question you asked but switch to a different question instead of waiting for him to give a clear answer, I still would like to know if Tesla start to make changes to the connector will they have the sole power todo so or will that has to be approved by a 3rd party? everyone is happy and in bed today but we all know in a blink of an eye Tesla and Ford ay end up going different direction! also the cost, if charging on Tesla going to cost more than other CCS stations like EA? truly wish I know where you asked for info. for the question, I have been following you since the BMW days, anyways keep up the awesome work .. but wish the real hard questions was answered.
Also there is no way anyone with a current CCS port and future Ford EV having the port so far back is going to have a better experience, so many people can’t drive and you are going to asked them to pull up slowly without bumping their car for that short cable to get plugged in, and by the time v4 gets placed all other the place that will take years, it would have been better to just get adapters with an extended length for Tesla to CCS and keep CCS on the cars because comes 2025 Ford better move that port to the rear or closer to the front, if not anyone with a 2025 will have a worst experience just from trying to plug in regardless if the charger is working or not!
It wasn't clear what Ford is doing when working with other chargepointe operators to improve reliability. Reading between the lines, it sounds like all Ford can do is ensure their vehicles are providing a reliable experience on any charging network to the best of their ability, but that there isn't much they can do to ensure that stations are going to be working properly when a customer arrives. They may provide input to the chargepoint operators, but it doesn't seem like they have a lot of influence over how the networks operate. Great job getting an answer on the source of the adapters! That's big news! I look forward to the follow-up interview in Spring(?) 2024 🙂 Maybe we'll get some more detailed answers next time. These were the right questions to ask and to get Ford thinking about the concerns customers have as the transition to NACS is being planned and starts to roll out.
Why can there be a single adapter that on one end is CCS and the other is NACS, it could work with Level 1, 2 and DCFC. Have internal circuitry that can tell the car’s port “I’m a DCFC” or “I’m a Level 2”. This single adapter solution would make life a bit easier.
Smaller lighter and more elegant at the cost of a lot functionality especially compared to Type 2. There’s only 2 conductors for carrying power plus a ground. It really limits what you can do.
Charging networks should be just like cell phone networks, you should only need one "account" to plug and charge on any network. Imagine if there were still areas your phone wouldn't work unless you sign up with that carrier, everyone knows that would never be acceptable.
@@frankcoffey I'm not sure that is accurate anymore. With the move to digital service. ATT and Verison offer services. With T-Moble buying out the smaller networks. With any smaller operators now contract with T-Moble. Example Mint Moble uses the T-Moble network.
A lot of corporate speak just to say everything is still up in the air / no firm decisions have been made on the details - except for the decision to move forward with NACS. If they haven't officially announced anything yet, I doubt they would do that here. Seems like regardless of the question, the answer was the same - "we are committed to moving forward with NACS for a better charging experience for our customers..."
I was going to say, "Wow, this guy answered zero questions." but I scrolled down and saw 300 people beat me to it. He did say Tesla will make the adapters. They need to offer a service visit to flip the CCS port over to the other side. The mount points are already there under the false door. They just need to put a hinge on it and remount the charge port hardware behind it.
Fantastic interview Tom, You always ask the key questions most people have, and Ford proved they can still be a leader in the American auto industry, not a follower.
Good questions. Unfortunate script-reading answers with PR shielding. We're the crowd that appreciates the new movement of companies opening up and telling us how it really is. These kinds of mundane answers remind us that Ford is still old-fashioned.
13:48 Based on Tesla's documentation, "NACS" is just a repackaged CCS standard, so any functionality that CCS is cable of would also apply to the new "NACS" standard. It won't necessarily apply to Tesla's proprietary standard, but Tesla's vehicles are directly CCS-compatible at this point anyway.
@@CrankyTim No, CCS predates NACS as a standard, and publicly it also predates Tesla's plug format. Tesla did not release their internal, proprietary communications protocols, which are essential to defining a charging standard. Instead, they told everyone to continue using all CCS communications and protocols through their plug format. By definition, that makes NACS a repackaged CCS standard. In fact, when the new standard is homologated by SAE, it will likely be renamed "CCS1-2023."
@@CrankyTim I'm not talking about publicly installed chargers, I'm talking about the standard itself, which was homologated in 2011. The first functioning, 100 kW prototype CCS1 chargers were unveiled in May of 2012, a month before Tesla released their first EV with their new DC standard, and nearly half a year before Tesla opened their first Supercharger site.
I love Tom and I'm always ready spend the time on whatever he puts out. This was the wrong guy as he was unwilling to answer most all of Tom's questions. One of the things I'm interested to know - is the deal v2 or v3? The nameplate ratings have v2 at 86.1kW max and v3 at 175kW max. 150 and 250 doesn't apply to non-tesla vehicles. Is Ford aware of this limitation and how will a customer know which is which?
Great interview as always. Been traveling with my EV all summer (Audi) and using superchargers all the way. As you said in the interview it is not the plug. It is the rest that handles much better on Tesla. Tesla with CCS2 in europe works perfectly on other brands. Only problem is that you have to park like an idiot to get the cable to reach.
I think this was only possible because in November 2022, Tesla essentially _open sourced_ their own charger connector design, and in fact the Society of Automotive Engineers may give the NACS connector a designation, SAE 3400. I believe that the NACS connector will be eventually able to handle an initial charging rate of as high as 400 kW, which means far faster charging to commercial DC chargers.
@@mrhickman53 correct. Bing Chat told me it is not a word in the English language, but I also like the sound of it, and got the intended meaning immediately. This is how new words are born.
Jeff appears very competent, but I got the feeling his boss directed a gag order. We learned more from Tom’s astute questions than Jeff’s side-stepping answers.
This interview gave me a lot more confidence in Ford electric products. They sound like they really are serious about providing their customers with the best experience possible.
Tom: "What's your name?". Ford guy: "Well, we're definitely aware that it's a challenge that my name hasn't been resolved; we've heard this from our customers and our own research. We're exploring ways to find the name, and it's certainly on the top of our minds"
While the Ford guy did a lot of deflecting, he did answer more than he is given credit for. Besides identifying Tesla as the adapter supplier, he also made clear that Ford didn't see a need to join the other automakers with their new network for now because it is focused on its Tesla project AND building out its own dealership network. This doesn't foreclose Ford from joining the new network at some future point. He also made it clear by using the word "transitioning" several times that 2025 Ford EVs won't all be coming out with NACS chargers and charging port locations may evolve over time. I've heard MME will have a new model in 2025, so that might be the only vehicle that arrives with the NACS in place. He also added that Ford knows they will need to support existing EV customers for some time after 2025 and that is why there won't be a specific date when they"flip a switch" to the new chargers. I thought it was a very interesting review. Thanks.
One area I'd push back on is "NACS" having superior charging power to CCS1. Based on currently deployed chargers, that isn't true, and when applying the same safety standards, CCS1 should always be capable of at least 20% more power than the Tesla plug. Will this stance on a 100% transition to "NACS" change if SAE's standardization process results in a standard that is the same or lower power rating than CCS1?
@@CrankyTim The 1000 kW was an erroneous claim by Tesla in the NACS documentation. Simply put, they said you can run 1000 A so long as there is a thermistor in place that reduces the charge current when the cable gets too hot. So 1 MW for 30 seconds? Maybe? In terms of sustained power capacity, NACS will NEVER match what CCS1 is capable of when applying the same safety standards). The charge curve comment is also very Tesla-centric thinking. Tesla has some of the most aggressive peaks and aggressive tapers of any EV charging curves, and some of the bigger battery EVs will be able to pull 500+ A for 30 minutes or more, especially at 400 V.
@@CrankyTim NACS is definitely adequate for light to medium duty vehicles, but it's not clear that it will be able to cover the power gap needed to match well with MCS. Frankly, I'll be surprised if we ever see >700 kW NACS deployed, but it is possible that anything that wants >500 kW charging (including privately owned HD EVs) will prioritize MCS anyway.
@@CrankyTim The charging providers already are looking to add the new plug standard. Some might wait until the SAE finalizes their standardization process, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out that most of the major charging providers have a seat at the table (or at least a voice in the room). Yes, it's true that any charging provider could deploy a 750 kW charger if they wanted to. Even NACS. The question is, how long can the best cooled, configured NACS actually support 750 kW. Probably a fraction of the time that CCS1 can. The new Charging Alliance will be deploying 350 kW CCS1 + NACS with the plan to expand that to 400 kW as demand for the faster charging comes into play (GM in particular will be aware of that timeframe). The only real difference between 350 kW and 400 kW for CCS1 is the number of power modules because CCS1 is already proven capable of sustained 500 A throughput for extended periods of time while still being IEC safety certified. For NACS, it's a bigger question, because it's not clear whether they can pump a sustained 500+ A for the period of time required by EVs that can accept ~400 kW.
22:54 Given the "Magic Dock's" 350 A restriction (presumably due to the Supercharger's not being able to carry >500 A for extended periods of time), will that same restriction apply to the CCS1 adapter that Tesla provides to Ford? If so, do you foresee complaints from CCS1-equipped Ford EV owners who are seeing significantly reduced charging speeds when using Superchargers as compared with the faster charging speeds they are seeing on native CCS1 chargers?
Great questions Tom. Unfortunately it appears Ford just jumped into this decision without really thinking much through. It appears to be a decision made mostly on perception and let the cards fall where they fall. It will be interesting how Ford actually works out the logistics on this.
I found that dealers in Canada think the chargers they are installing are for setting up new cars to deliver. I don’t think they realize that the chargers are meant as a general charging network for people who already own EVs . They complain that the EV owner is using their electricity!!!!
Placing the charger connector in the rear quarter panel is not a good idea for a pickup truck. Think about trying to charge with a long load in the bed of the truck that requires the tailgate to be down and extends several feet beyond the tailgate, or trying to charge while a trailer is still attached to the truck. Those cases are best handled by a connector that is as close to the front of the truck as possible, like in the R1T.
The massive question you missed is what is Ford paying for access to the Supercharger network? Cost of the connector is trivial. Also is Ford going to fund expansion of the Supercharger network?
Tell Ford I'll be happy to pay for the adapter ASAP... Also, if the adapter is a short extension, it will solve the port location problem. TAKE MY MONEY!!!
Talk about dodging specific answers to specific questions lol... not being allowed to actually make decisions without management by committee is why it's so hard to turn big boats like Ford.
QUESTION: How likely is it that EV manufacturers in North America will offer owners the option to change their CCS charging port to the “new” NAX when it eventually becomes ubiquitous?
Had same question. If you by a 2023 model, are you stuck with the old port for life of car or can you or will you be able to have the receptacle changed out
You asked all the right questions. He wouldn’t answer any of them , sad. Thank you for trying. Keep up the great work 👍🏼
You could just see legacy auto written all over his face.... didn't seem interested at all. I was thankful to hear Sunrun wouldn't be making the adapters though😁
What, you didn't like his marketing-speak? ;-)
I haven’t seen more dodges since I went to a Dodge dealership.
He just didn’t have all the answers yet.
@@bostondan77 Did he have more than one? Not sure why he is going on these calls if they don't have anything decided yet. Waste of everyone's time to give some generalities of intent.
Well done, Tom! Excellent questions. And asked honestly. One day I hope we can get the answers...
"we're working diligently" isn't much of an answer. But that's what we've got!
You said what I was thinking! 🙂
I think the only question he answered was that Tesla will make the adapters. Otherwise, it sounded like a GM interview full of talking without saying anything. It was not at all like a Jim Farley / Ford interview.
Great job, Tom. You asked all the right questions. Too bad you didn't get many answers haha. I think you need to get this guy on the books for 6 months from now and ask all the same questions again 😆
Great interview, Tom! Clearly this is still a work in progress and’ll take longer to reach a settled state. It looks like the NACS-to-CCS adapter will pretty much be the magic dock adapter. Not sure about the plug n charge time table, though!
Amazing how many questions he wasn’t able to answer. Nice guy who cares about his work I’m sure, but there’s more to a good charging experience than just switching to NACS. Just goes to show how far ahead Tesla is in the whole ecosystem.
They can’t reveal too many company decisions, especially since they might not be finalized.
In that case I would have expected him to say “I don’t know” or “we haven’t decided yet,” but some of his answers sounded carefully crafted like a PR rep.
Yeah, they're not. Look at Europe, where governments but also privat investors and car companies started investing heavily into infrastructure and created at least 5-7 years ago the CCS network the US is lacking today. When Ford is saying "we have the biggest network in the US", it's just laughable. They could and should have invested e.g. into EA, when EA was looking for an investor. Tesla will always make the charging experience so much better for their own customers to have an edge over the competition - like they're doing in Europe with 500 vs 600A charging and not supporting 800/900V.
Another great video, TOM. I’m sorry there wasn’t very much news to report during the interview. The only really good nugget I got was from him saying Tesla will supply the adapters. I think that’s really big. That’s a big burden for Tesla to make sure they don’t send out faulty adapters. That’s a big incentive also for them to make sure they’re charging standard goes well into the future. 10 years from now when they will inevitably want to update the North American charging standard, they will have to consider very heavily how much this might affect people who will be given, these Tesla adapters if their adapters no longer work and they know it’s directly Tesla‘s fault. Ford or GM had contracted with a third-party to make these adapters and they started to fail or didn’t work, it would seem like those car makers shows profit over reliability. The complete onus is on Tesla to make sure these are high-quality.
Hey, all I can do is ask!
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney you asked ALL the right questions. He simply didn’t have answers. And that says volumes.
I think Elon stated that Tesla would provide the adapters to Ford and others at cost.
Volex makes and supplies the connectors.
It's somewhat of an easier burden because now they don't have to do all the work and absorb the costs to upgrade the supercharger network with magic docks. Even if Tesla sells the adaptor to the other automakers at cost, they will have successfully shifted that financial burden off their backs.
Give TOM the adapter the day before!! Hell, a week before. Let him go test this for all of us!! We can't have a ton of Ford and GM cars going to SCs and clogging them up figuring out the chargers!
What Ford can do to improve charging at non Tesla chargers is simple. Display reliability information in every Ford rolling around North America, like status available, charging, broken. Peak and average charge rate in the last 10 sessions, and dates. Also, did you schedule a followup interview 12 months out, and other interviews with GM, Tesla, VW, Stellantis? This interview idea is great!
Tom, you clearly asked questions he was not prepared to answer or ford did not think about. From my observation he will be going back tomorrow and researching many of the questions that you asked. Ford has a ton of work to do in a very short period of time.
Good questions. Thanks for acknowledging that NACS doesn't necessarily equal good experience if the infrastructure isn't rock solid. First-party Tesla Superchargers set an incredibly high bar for reliability, and no other company has proven they can match it yet. I'm hopeful they will, long term.
Once we add a million non Tesla cars in, Tesla will be far less reliable.
I really hope these DCFC adapters will also be an extension cable. even 1-2ft extra length would be amazing
I was thinking the same. I think that’s be a smarter approach than retrofitting thousands of chargers with longer cables where they aren’t always needed.
Adding an uncooled cable might limit charging rate?
I would give real money if politicians and corporate types would answer direct questions directly. It's so frustrating and infuriating.
The art of answering questions by not answering questions
Yeah, this guy bring nothing to the table that we did not already know. A total waste in every way.
Good job asking the questions, so much for the details…
Fabulous interview, Tom. Many great questions and incites.
Thank you men. Tom, nice work powering through quickly.
Thanks Tom for pushing for this interview. I was surprised Ford was a little ambiguous about wether or not they’d have the CCS 1 and NACS plugs on there vehicles. I am almost positive they will only have the one NACS connector. It would cost a-lot to have both hardware integrated.
There's no real reason for them to have both. They're electrically and communication compatible. You would only need a relatively cheap passive adapter to plug into a CCS cable on a NACS car.
He answered it without answering.
He said they are transitioning to NACS, which implies a full transition. He said adapters will be available on ‘both sides of the transition’. Meaning to give access for both ports to both types of cables. This would suggest there is no reason to think there will be two dcfc ports on one vehicle.
I don’t see any benefit that would really even give that a simple (cheaper) adapter couldn’t do.
Stupid question in the first place.
Thank you Ford for talking to your customers! I’m still peeved that my Lightning is past the 3 week mark at the shop waiting on a battery module but videos like this remind me of why I’m now a big Ford fan and will continue to eagerly wait for my truck!
Great interview skills you, thank you for putting that together, well done.
Useful interview. I suggest that you work on shortening up your questions and put the burden for detail on the person you're interviewing. I several cases you feed him the answer, so all he has left to do it to give a corporate-speak, elliptical partial or non answer.
Whoa Tom, you are committing some serious journalism. Your questions had that Ford guy doing more bob and weave than Ali late in his career. My takes: 1) Lots of companies were talking to Tesla. Farley wanted the mantle of first mover and announced long before most details had been worked out. 2) In response, the other seven sent a big middle finger to Ford with their network announcement. 3) In reply, Farley said "eff me? no eff you." Interesting to see how this tussle plays out. PS: that dude is never coming on your channel again. Keep it up!
"Ford's Public Charging Manager" I.E PR Manager. Not surprised by the lack of answers he gave. Other than that it was a great Interview by Tom.
Great interviewing on your part. On Ford's part, I feel like this was a lot of nothing. I realize it comes with the situation of such interviews, but the level of corporate speak and talking points coming from Jeff I found a bit nauseating. Strip out "our customers" and this video would be 10 minutes I suspect.
Excellent interview Tom. Unfortunate about the lack of actual answers
Boy did Ford do Tom dirty. This guy is Fred Astaire evading questions. My lord….
Good job asking the questions, so much for the details…. Thanks Tom for this interview good to have this info..
Tesla released a license to build the NACS to Volex, a British LLC. The company says it’s ready to supply the NACS connector to automakers; Tesla must have been talking with Volex for a while about it.
Thanks, Tom!
Great interview, certainly dodged a couple but we also got good information! Thanks, Tom!
The first question I would ask is how the heck did the industry get involved with that stupid CCS connection In the first place?
Great job on asking all the right questions! Lots of dogging in the answers... Not too sure why. At least we know that Tesla will make the adapter. Thanks Tom!
Aye.. trust me bro.. Jeff, the public charging manager is the manager in my neighborhood macD in real life.
Thanks Tom for this interview good to have this info.
Well done, covering this
Glad to hear from anyone on the OEM side, but a lot of “I can neither confirm nor deny” kind of answers but good questions Tom.
I really love how Ford is handling this EV transition. Making their top tier people available to YTers like you and Munro Live is a major confidence builder.
Great interview Tom. One question to consider for next time - On what date do you think that decision will be made? Someone is managing this project and should have a detailed project plan mapping out all of the critical tasks and decisions. While dates might slip, they know what needs to happen and when. They still might be reluctant to share though. You might be able to pin them down to something more specific than early 2024. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
I think you are way too optimistic about Ford's approach to this. Lol
Thanks for trying Tom. Unfortunately Jeff had little to no answers. Funny to hear your "mmmkay" after each waffle-answer. ;)
Good interview, pressing the need to know topics. Ford looks better for answering.
Thanks for chasing this down and asking the tough questions Tom!
Hi Tom, Thanks for getting this interview but next time tell them to provide someone that has answers. While I fully understand there could be open questions on the actual architecture of the vehicles in 2025 he should be more specific on software plans and adapter plans.
Great interview! Gave me 0 confidence in Ford having any sort of a plan. So many non amswers 🙄 and im a big ford fan
Fantastic interview. As a lightning owner with a home charger, I’m not too worried. But I do have to plan any road trips and hope and pray that the charger is working. Thankfully PlugShare helps with that. I do hope ford sends us the adapter though.
Great questions, Tom. The answers, however.....
Sounds like Ford is still working through some of the issues, but you asked the questions that are on everybody's mind.
Beno’s team should be making a to-do list 😮
Yeah, I bet he was scrambling to take note as soon as this was done, cause they clearly haven't thought this through
Great video, Ty Tom.
I can see why they've delayed interviews. "We have a plan, we are going to make a plan." You asked the right questions but they didn't give real answers. What answer did we want? "In addition to the CCS adapter on its current location we are looking at putting a NACS port so customers can have the best of both worlds." Even if they tied it to trim levels, "This feature will only be available on Lariat and above models." The answer I expected to get but didn't, "We aren't participating in another charging alliance because its not core to our business, our business is to provide the best vehicles in the industry." Its clear for Ford to be successful in the future they need to put the NACS port on one of the corners so its reachable by the very short cords. I wouldn't be surprised if the adapter for the lightning is not just an adapter but a short cable and adapter. It is also clear that in the future both Tesla and Ford are going to need more charging locations with truck pull through slots, so vehicles pulling a load don't have to unhook their load to charge.
Also love the b-roll
One thing I'm curious about is that not every supercharger is going to be made available, namely the older V1/V2 sites that had 120/150 kW max charging (vs the V3's 250 kW max). Normally not a big deal because you wouldn't necessarily want to use the older ones due to their power sharing and slower charging speeds.
But I've been to some superchargers where they had V3 installed nearby or next to the older stalls, such as Winnemucca, NV, and I think Lima, CO also has some V3's next to the V2's there. The V3's have the same communication protocols as CCS, which is probably why switching over should be a lot easier for other automakers.
I hope that Tesla makes the signage clear that those superchargers aren't compatible with non-Tesla EV's, if they don't convert them to V3 anyway.
Or just buy a Tesla and every supercharger will work with the vehicle, and you can always get a CCS/CHAdeMO adapter (though I don't recommend the latter because fewer sites, obsolete standard, it's more expensive, clunky adapter) to utilize other DC fast chargers.
Regardless, this is exciting news for EV's in general, and should make it easier to own one for road trips or if you don't have home charging available, like apartment dwellers or people who only have side street parking.
This will also allow Tesla to massively expand the supercharger network even further with funding from the US government. And with more automakers making NACS-compatible EV's, it should be easier to convince business owners to host a supercharger site, which means more places to charge for people over time.
Good questions! Seems like Ford wasn’t prepared for an interview. Again, EV consumers are doing the heavy lifting when it comes to aggregating information and offering ideas. If a Ford exc answered questions like this, is there any surprise my salesman, dealer and service are clueless about EVs.
Tom, I’m watching your video. Questions for another video.
How does the change to NACS affect vehicle to grid and vehicle to home?
I own a Volt and an ID.4. I am 65 years old, just retired, and don’t buy a lot of new vehicles- so maybe one or two more in my lifetime. The Volt and ID.4 were purchased to experience electric-replacing perfectly good ICE vehicles.
Where I live, 5-9 pm are when the electric grid is stressed- as evidenced by electrical TOU rates. My 77 kWh ID.4 could easily supply the 5 kWh of electricity I’d like to use in my home during these hours. My ID.4 is supposed to have V2H hardware, but not software. You just addressed this for Ford in the video. Can you expand on this for other brands?
I think it is criminal that every single EV does not do what the F150 does with outlets and V2H/G. Of course scaled for vehicle battery size. I don’t expect the same output from a 62kWh battery as from a 209 kWh battery.
Thanks.
I enjoy your videos.
Great questions Tom 👍
Tom, the question not asked is will the charging planner in the Ford's navigation include Superchargers. He did mention they currently navigate to their own network and I'm okay if they include or even prioritize their network, but all NACS options should be available. I'm going to assume that it will happen, but I wanted to hear it from him
Yes, it absolutely will.
He may have not been able to answer everything but at least Ford did come on and has been more and more informing us about their plans.
Great video. I wonder what the cost of the NACS upgrade will cost? Also will that fall under the tax credit too? So we can get 30% off on the back end?
Tom, that was a good interview; too bad you did not go back to the major question you asked but switch to a different question instead of waiting for him to give a clear answer, I still would like to know if Tesla start to make changes to the connector will they have the sole power todo so or will that has to be approved by a 3rd party? everyone is happy and in bed today but we all know in a blink of an eye Tesla and Ford ay end up going different direction! also the cost, if charging on Tesla going to cost more than other CCS stations like EA? truly wish I know where you asked for info. for the question, I have been following you since the BMW days, anyways keep up the awesome work .. but wish the real hard questions was answered.
Also there is no way anyone with a current CCS port and future Ford EV having the port so far back is going to have a better experience, so many people can’t drive and you are going to asked them to pull up slowly without bumping their car for that short cable to get plugged in, and by the time v4 gets placed all other the place that will take years, it would have been better to just get adapters with an extended length for Tesla to CCS and keep CCS on the cars because comes 2025 Ford better move that port to the rear or closer to the front, if not anyone with a 2025 will have a worst experience just from trying to plug in regardless if the charger is working or not!
It wasn't clear what Ford is doing when working with other chargepointe operators to improve reliability. Reading between the lines, it sounds like all Ford can do is ensure their vehicles are providing a reliable experience on any charging network to the best of their ability, but that there isn't much they can do to ensure that stations are going to be working properly when a customer arrives. They may provide input to the chargepoint operators, but it doesn't seem like they have a lot of influence over how the networks operate.
Great job getting an answer on the source of the adapters! That's big news!
I look forward to the follow-up interview in Spring(?) 2024 🙂 Maybe we'll get some more detailed answers next time. These were the right questions to ask and to get Ford thinking about the concerns customers have as the transition to NACS is being planned and starts to roll out.
Why can there be a single adapter that on one end is CCS and the other is NACS, it could work with Level 1, 2 and DCFC. Have internal circuitry that can tell the car’s port “I’m a DCFC” or “I’m a Level 2”. This single adapter solution would make life a bit easier.
“Dealership charging”. Great solution. I’m sure those locations are super convenient. /s
Smaller lighter and more elegant at the cost of a lot functionality especially compared to Type 2. There’s only 2 conductors for carrying power plus a ground. It really limits what you can do.
Charging networks should be just like cell phone networks, you should only need one "account" to plug and charge on any network. Imagine if there were still areas your phone wouldn't work unless you sign up with that carrier, everyone knows that would never be acceptable.
No,what is wrong with making things a little bit complicated?
That is exactly how it works now. There are ATT, Verizon and T-Moble networks. With towers that may have one or more network nodes.
@@Dularr So car charging networks need the same reciprocity-rewarding cooperation model cell networks use. A simple API would enable it.
@@frankcoffey I'm not sure that is accurate anymore. With the move to digital service. ATT and Verison offer services. With T-Moble buying out the smaller networks. With any smaller operators now contract with T-Moble.
Example Mint Moble uses the T-Moble network.
A lot of corporate speak just to say everything is still up in the air / no firm decisions have been made on the details - except for the decision to move forward with NACS. If they haven't officially announced anything yet, I doubt they would do that here. Seems like regardless of the question, the answer was the same - "we are committed to moving forward with NACS for a better charging experience for our customers..."
I was going to say, "Wow, this guy answered zero questions." but I scrolled down and saw 300 people beat me to it. He did say Tesla will make the adapters. They need to offer a service visit to flip the CCS port over to the other side. The mount points are already there under the false door. They just need to put a hinge on it and remount the charge port hardware behind it.
Fantastic interview Tom, You always ask the key questions most people have, and Ford proved they can still be a leader in the American auto industry, not a follower.
Good questions. Unfortunate script-reading answers with PR shielding. We're the crowd that appreciates the new movement of companies opening up and telling us how it really is. These kinds of mundane answers remind us that Ford is still old-fashioned.
13:48 Based on Tesla's documentation, "NACS" is just a repackaged CCS standard, so any functionality that CCS is cable of would also apply to the new "NACS" standard. It won't necessarily apply to Tesla's proprietary standard, but Tesla's vehicles are directly CCS-compatible at this point anyway.
@@CrankyTim No, CCS predates NACS as a standard, and publicly it also predates Tesla's plug format. Tesla did not release their internal, proprietary communications protocols, which are essential to defining a charging standard. Instead, they told everyone to continue using all CCS communications and protocols through their plug format. By definition, that makes NACS a repackaged CCS standard. In fact, when the new standard is homologated by SAE, it will likely be renamed "CCS1-2023."
@@CrankyTim I'm not talking about publicly installed chargers, I'm talking about the standard itself, which was homologated in 2011. The first functioning, 100 kW prototype CCS1 chargers were unveiled in May of 2012, a month before Tesla released their first EV with their new DC standard, and nearly half a year before Tesla opened their first Supercharger site.
I love Tom and I'm always ready spend the time on whatever he puts out. This was the wrong guy as he was unwilling to answer most all of Tom's questions. One of the things I'm interested to know - is the deal v2 or v3? The nameplate ratings have v2 at 86.1kW max and v3 at 175kW max. 150 and 250 doesn't apply to non-tesla vehicles. Is Ford aware of this limitation and how will a customer know which is which?
Great interview as always. Been traveling with my EV all summer (Audi) and using superchargers all the way. As you said in the interview it is not the plug. It is the rest that handles much better on Tesla. Tesla with CCS2 in europe works perfectly on other brands. Only problem is that you have to park like an idiot to get the cable to reach.
I think this was only possible because in November 2022, Tesla essentially _open sourced_ their own charger connector design, and in fact the Society of Automotive Engineers may give the NACS connector a designation, SAE 3400. I believe that the NACS connector will be eventually able to handle an initial charging rate of as high as 400 kW, which means far faster charging to commercial DC chargers.
I got an adapter for 2023 Mach E GT performance from CCS to NACS. Good point about the people with Ford pass +.
Excellent questions! I'm not impressed with the answers. I am happy that Ford made a representative available to at least ambivulate.
All I can do is ask! :)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You performed masterfully even when receiving ambivalent answers. Thanks.
Ambivulate. Great new vocabulary word for me. I'll be using that!
@@lkuhn65 Probably not found in a dictionary. I just liked the sound of it.
@@mrhickman53 correct. Bing Chat told me it is not a word in the English language, but I also like the sound of it, and got the intended meaning immediately. This is how new words are born.
I think Ford should Pay and ship the NACS TO CCS1 adapters to all the customers who bought a new EV from them, through the dealers.
an interview too early. needs to be rescheduled for early 2024... i learnt nothing in the 12 mins i spent on this :D Appreciate your work
Jeff appears very competent, but I got the feeling his boss directed a gag order. We learned more from Tom’s astute questions than Jeff’s side-stepping answers.
This interview gave me a lot more confidence in Ford electric products. They sound like they really are serious about providing their customers with the best experience possible.
Wow, you must be telepathic.
When do you think can we expect EVSE manufacturers to start selling units with NACS connectors?
The Ford pro guy is good he would be good to interview
Can I ask what a good 20' ev extension cord is with a little flexibility to it. Thanks
Tom: "What's your name?". Ford guy: "Well, we're definitely aware that it's a challenge that my name hasn't been resolved; we've heard this from our customers and our own research. We're exploring ways to find the name, and it's certainly on the top of our minds"
While the Ford guy did a lot of deflecting, he did answer more than he is given credit for. Besides identifying Tesla as the adapter supplier, he also made clear that Ford didn't see a need to join the other automakers with their new network for now because it is focused on its Tesla project AND building out its own dealership network. This doesn't foreclose Ford from joining the new network at some future point. He also made it clear by using the word "transitioning" several times that 2025 Ford EVs won't all be coming out with NACS chargers and charging port locations may evolve over time. I've heard MME will have a new model in 2025, so that might be the only vehicle that arrives with the NACS in place. He also added that Ford knows they will need to support existing EV customers for some time after 2025 and that is why there won't be a specific date when they"flip a switch" to the new chargers. I thought it was a very interesting review. Thanks.
One area I'd push back on is "NACS" having superior charging power to CCS1. Based on currently deployed chargers, that isn't true, and when applying the same safety standards, CCS1 should always be capable of at least 20% more power than the Tesla plug. Will this stance on a 100% transition to "NACS" change if SAE's standardization process results in a standard that is the same or lower power rating than CCS1?
@@CrankyTim The 1000 kW was an erroneous claim by Tesla in the NACS documentation. Simply put, they said you can run 1000 A so long as there is a thermistor in place that reduces the charge current when the cable gets too hot. So 1 MW for 30 seconds? Maybe? In terms of sustained power capacity, NACS will NEVER match what CCS1 is capable of when applying the same safety standards).
The charge curve comment is also very Tesla-centric thinking. Tesla has some of the most aggressive peaks and aggressive tapers of any EV charging curves, and some of the bigger battery EVs will be able to pull 500+ A for 30 minutes or more, especially at 400 V.
@@CrankyTim NACS is definitely adequate for light to medium duty vehicles, but it's not clear that it will be able to cover the power gap needed to match well with MCS. Frankly, I'll be surprised if we ever see >700 kW NACS deployed, but it is possible that anything that wants >500 kW charging (including privately owned HD EVs) will prioritize MCS anyway.
@@CrankyTim The charging providers already are looking to add the new plug standard. Some might wait until the SAE finalizes their standardization process, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out that most of the major charging providers have a seat at the table (or at least a voice in the room).
Yes, it's true that any charging provider could deploy a 750 kW charger if they wanted to. Even NACS. The question is, how long can the best cooled, configured NACS actually support 750 kW. Probably a fraction of the time that CCS1 can.
The new Charging Alliance will be deploying 350 kW CCS1 + NACS with the plan to expand that to 400 kW as demand for the faster charging comes into play (GM in particular will be aware of that timeframe). The only real difference between 350 kW and 400 kW for CCS1 is the number of power modules because CCS1 is already proven capable of sustained 500 A throughput for extended periods of time while still being IEC safety certified. For NACS, it's a bigger question, because it's not clear whether they can pump a sustained 500+ A for the period of time required by EVs that can accept ~400 kW.
22:54 Given the "Magic Dock's" 350 A restriction (presumably due to the Supercharger's not being able to carry >500 A for extended periods of time), will that same restriction apply to the CCS1 adapter that Tesla provides to Ford? If so, do you foresee complaints from CCS1-equipped Ford EV owners who are seeing significantly reduced charging speeds when using Superchargers as compared with the faster charging speeds they are seeing on native CCS1 chargers?
It was at this moment he knew Ford f*cked up...
Be aware, at this time, Mach E’s purchased used can’t activate Plug & Charge. Hope this is fixed before Superchargers are added.
Great discussion. There HAS to a standard plug...PERIOD!!! Or it will add years to the adoption of EVs
Great questions Tom. Unfortunately it appears Ford just jumped into this decision without really thinking much through. It appears to be a decision made mostly on perception and let the cards fall where they fall. It will be interesting how Ford actually works out the logistics on this.
Tom, you were great. Mr. Beno, not so much. I thought I was watching a Sunday morning interview of a politician.
I found that dealers in Canada think the chargers they are installing are for setting up new cars to deliver. I don’t think they realize that the chargers are meant as a general charging network for people who already own EVs . They complain that the EV owner is using their electricity!!!!
One major question… Will the adapter lengthen the tesla cable for cars that have the port on the front left side of the vehicle
No
Any thoughts on the E-GMP charging issues people are reporting?
“That is something we are working on”😁
Did I hear correctly that he said that BlueOval has the most stations in North America? 17:08
Placing the charger connector in the rear quarter panel is not a good idea for a pickup truck. Think about trying to charge with a long load in the bed of the truck that requires the tailgate to be down and extends several feet beyond the tailgate, or trying to charge while a trailer is still attached to the truck. Those cases are best handled by a connector that is as close to the front of the truck as possible, like in the R1T.
Will we be able to have our charge ports changed to nacs?
It's technically possible, but no OEM is going to offer that option because it would be cost-prohibitive. Adapters will be used.
Not sure if this is doable, but an extension cord to plug into the NACS cord would help.
The massive question you missed is what is Ford paying for access to the Supercharger network? Cost of the connector is trivial. Also is Ford going to fund expansion of the Supercharger network?
Tell Ford I'll be happy to pay for the adapter ASAP... Also, if the adapter is a short extension, it will solve the port location problem. TAKE MY MONEY!!!
I don' think an extension is possible. Tesla DC charging cables are liquid cooled.
@@shark92651 more copper fixes that... the short adapter extender can be heavier.
Talk about dodging specific answers to specific questions lol... not being allowed to actually make decisions without management by committee is why it's so hard to turn big boats like Ford.
Sounds like they are still working things out.
QUESTION: How likely is it that EV manufacturers in North America will offer owners the option to change their CCS charging port to the “new” NAX when it eventually becomes ubiquitous?
Had same question. If you by a 2023 model, are you stuck with the old port for life of car or can you or will you be able to have the receptacle changed out