Honestly, the thing I hate the most is editing. I kind of like that I can actually show tech to people now, but the nice thing about the days on the forums was that I had more time to actually play the game, hahaha! I'll slowly get through all the mechanics I want--just slow to actually put the videos together. =/
I'm always glad if the info helps people--good luck with these tools at your disposal! As for people not knowing about me, I haven't really competed much in a loooong time, and never really majors except some team tourneys when I was in Japan. TBH, I have spent 95% of my time in T8 in practice mode so far, so I need to learn character match-ups and play some real matches. Competitively, while I can pilot Lee pretty well, I will only call myself middling at best until I learn the match-ups thoroughly (last time was T6). But part of it is also just that there are young people and those new to Tekken. I've been actively cooking up Lee stuff since at least Tekken 4, and I was very active with the community back to the early days of the Tekken Zaibatsu forums back in 2000. The old heads and especially old Lee players know me for sure. I've certainly been around, but I didn't like Tag 2 much and really disliked 7, so aside from a short time in 7 (S1 and 2 mainly), I haven't really done a lot with Tekken since T6. in T6 specifically, I found/pioneered a TON of Lee tech basically throughout the whole life of the game, from early on when I was testing stuff on behalf of the English speaking community because I had access to it at arcade release at Green in Seoul, to late in its life when I was finding and applying the most brutal oki we had ever seen in a Tekken. T6 is still my favorite Tekken to date! =]
@@k3rok939 Always happy to hear it gets used and makes a difference! I remember Father always shouting "Murakumooooo!" when he got CH 2,2,3 wall splat after they tech the d/f+4 refloat attempt because we're left +2, lol. =P
@@TZMurakumoI'm currently a shinryu Lee main. You seem like a patient player/instructor. I would highly consider taking lessons from you if such a service was available 🌹
I’m amazed how deep your knowledge of Tekken is. It allows you to test hypothetical and then practical concepts. People in comments call you a scientist. And it cannot be further from the truth. Considering angle and frame advantage to find out about guaranteed damage. Just wow!
Part of it is just having a lot of old (and new) mechanical knowledge that lets me think of ideas or routes of inquiry to follow. A lot of times and idea will pop into my head at work or something of something that might connect, and then I'll follow up and test it. In many cases it actually connects, lol. This video was informed by mechanics where, at least some pieces of them, go all the way back to T5 (far b+4 I think) or T6 (u/b+3 didn't normally hit grounded, but would if you cut an angle to put it into their chest at all). So basically, part of this is just being an old man who's lived through a lot of Tekkens and paid a lot of attention to Lee specifically. =P
Great video man. I often screw up my SSR b+4 and this allows them to spring kick, I just found out today in labbing that b+3,3 re-floated them for a combo. I didn't test it thoroughly but your video confirmed it, also I didn't know you could be +8 on that so thanks for the information.
Dear Professor Murakumo, I just found this channel, I’ve played lee since I was 9 now 30. I have never understood how to do any combos and I just play off instinct. To be short your bio on here touches me and gives me hope. Vr Vr Ty .
Thank you for the comment. Welcome, and just enjoy it and take the journey one step at a time. =) "The most important step a man can take is always the next one." - Dalinar Kholin
Insane video, appreciate the breakdown! At 6:55 you mention "quarter circle back cancelling", is that a faster way to exit HMS than just holding back? Anything more technical to it than just inputting a QCB after entering hitman?
It used to be a way to cancel hitman faster. It visually still seems faster in the neutral, though it appears it doesn't make a difference from blocking anymore. It used to be that from hitman it was 2f to cancel to block with B, and 1 frame to cancel with D/B, so qcB during buffer period would end up blocking one frame quicker. Now, at least on FC,d/f+4, it seems they both unified the frames for recovery and made holding B able to block on the first frame of recovery (sadly, HMS version used to be 2f better so we actually got a 1F safer version of FC,d/f+4 with the HMS and HMS cancel in T7, which is not gone). In neutral it still seems visually faster than holding back. qcb in the buffer period also makes sure you won't get an HMS move on recovery if you pressed a little early, which is why it's still a go-to for me, along with muscle memory.
@@TZMurakumo during T5-T6 days I always look forward to your posts in TZ along with fightinggms, acid, silver heel, etc. OG Lee's. good times bro I hope all is well.
@@willnotforget4956 In a way, I miss the forums. Great to show people stuff now, but it takes so much more time to produce a video than just write something. Our practice mode tools are also better, but I feel like I spend most of my time just capturing and editing video recently and I'd like to get playing again! =P
I'm not sure how much harder it is vs. HMS u/f+4 into HMS u/f+4, but yeah, I would probably go for grounded side roll if it were me. Unless you play a small character, in which case probably U recovery.
Honestly, it probably depends on the player, so you have to find what would work best for you. I have always been very visual in my timing. Sound and visuals will both suffer when there's lag in response (bad online connections), so muscle memory might be best for combos and things, but lag always really messed me up. =/ Sound can be important in particular with certain defense options. Nothing it popping off the top of my head at the moment, but a notorious example was Bruce's CD+3 vs. CD+2 (low and launch), which had a similar start-up animation. The low, however, made a sound like a kickboxing blowing off air in a hit, and the CD+2 didn't, so audio was actually more important in this situation. There are likely to be other canned mix-ups with something similar, too.
HMS u/f+4 is better when you can hit it as a low wall hit. b+4 comes out faster and can hit them when they are at the wall but not on the wall, whereas HMS u/f+4 only gives followups vs. grounded and low wall opponents (otherwise they can wake up safely if you hit them higher on the wall or in an "airborne" state. For example, if we have heat (didn't heat burst in combo) and (w) WS+2,3, T! HMS u/f+4, d/f+4,4~F, the opponent is airborne rather than on the wall, so we can't do another HMS u/f+4 (also not enough time), but we can finish with b+4, u/b+3 there. Also, if you are at a great angle to the wall, HMS u/f+4 can go over opponents, whereas SS, b+4 can keep them in front of you and better angled to sandwich between you and the wall in these instances. In most situations, low wall HMS u/f+4 is better, but there are a few spots where I would elect for b+4
We need more scientists like you for other characters 😭. You go so in-depth with just one attack.
Honestly, the thing I hate the most is editing. I kind of like that I can actually show tech to people now, but the nice thing about the days on the forums was that I had more time to actually play the game, hahaha!
I'll slowly get through all the mechanics I want--just slow to actually put the videos together. =/
@@TZMurakumotake your time man you do such good work, its worth the wait!
You're so underrated, how come not so many people know about you? Excellent work, I'll try to implement all these things into my gameplay.
I'm always glad if the info helps people--good luck with these tools at your disposal!
As for people not knowing about me, I haven't really competed much in a loooong time, and never really majors except some team tourneys when I was in Japan. TBH, I have spent 95% of my time in T8 in practice mode so far, so I need to learn character match-ups and play some real matches. Competitively, while I can pilot Lee pretty well, I will only call myself middling at best until I learn the match-ups thoroughly (last time was T6).
But part of it is also just that there are young people and those new to Tekken. I've been actively cooking up Lee stuff since at least Tekken 4, and I was very active with the community back to the early days of the Tekken Zaibatsu forums back in 2000. The old heads and especially old Lee players know me for sure. I've certainly been around, but I didn't like Tag 2 much and really disliked 7, so aside from a short time in 7 (S1 and 2 mainly), I haven't really done a lot with Tekken since T6. in T6 specifically, I found/pioneered a TON of Lee tech basically throughout the whole life of the game, from early on when I was testing stuff on behalf of the English speaking community because I had access to it at arcade release at Green in Seoul, to late in its life when I was finding and applying the most brutal oki we had ever seen in a Tekken. T6 is still my favorite Tekken to date! =]
Yes underrated. But in most Lee twitch streamer's chat you will see lee mains call out new murakumo tech.
@@k3rok939
Always happy to hear it gets used and makes a difference!
I remember Father always shouting "Murakumooooo!" when he got CH 2,2,3 wall splat after they tech the d/f+4 refloat attempt because we're left +2, lol. =P
My favourite class to attend this semester !!!
I wish people would pay me tuition for this so I could eat some food. o.O!
@@TZMurakumoI'm currently a shinryu Lee main. You seem like a patient player/instructor. I would highly consider taking lessons from you if such a service was available 🌹
0:46 That's the coolest combo I've ever seen.
Sadly it doesn’t work any more ;(
So fake , it's cheatsss can u see that
@@Lux-396 Not cheat. Recent Patch removed DF4’s kick that gave it the ability to extend combos. Now it’s not possible.
Us Lee enjoyers are really eating like kings.
I want more -- specifically, I WANT TECH CATCHES!!!
This is like watching a science lecture, Im beyond impressed, this is many years of experience packed into 20 minutes
I’m amazed how deep your knowledge of Tekken is. It allows you to test hypothetical and then practical concepts. People in comments call you a scientist. And it cannot be further from the truth. Considering angle and frame advantage to find out about guaranteed damage. Just wow!
Part of it is just having a lot of old (and new) mechanical knowledge that lets me think of ideas or routes of inquiry to follow. A lot of times and idea will pop into my head at work or something of something that might connect, and then I'll follow up and test it. In many cases it actually connects, lol.
This video was informed by mechanics where, at least some pieces of them, go all the way back to T5 (far b+4 I think) or T6 (u/b+3 didn't normally hit grounded, but would if you cut an angle to put it into their chest at all).
So basically, part of this is just being an old man who's lived through a lot of Tekkens and paid a lot of attention to Lee specifically. =P
You are life changing I believe, thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Hopefully I can change my own life, too, so I can actually afford real food and stuff, lol.
thanks again so much for these in-depths analysis !! they are sooo interesting and this was great way to start my morning ❤ much love from Switzerland
Sure thing. I really hope it proves helpful for people!
Great video man.
I often screw up my SSR b+4 and this allows them to spring kick, I just found out today in labbing that b+3,3 re-floated them for a combo.
I didn't test it thoroughly but your video confirmed it, also I didn't know you could be +8 on that so thanks for the information.
Especially with the SSR, b+3,3 is super consistent!
Dear Professor Murakumo,
I just found this channel, I’ve played lee since I was 9 now 30. I have never understood how to do any combos and I just play off instinct. To be short your bio on here touches me and gives me hope. Vr Vr Ty .
Thank you for the comment. Welcome, and just enjoy it and take the journey one step at a time. =)
"The most important step a man can take is always the next one."
- Dalinar Kholin
I love every lesson in Lee University he has a lot of mad scientists like ling always sharing tech
There's certainly more tech to explore, it's just that editing takes so long! x_X;
@@TZMurakumo yea there is so much tech that I dont even mind they removed some of lees moves that were used for tech catches in early T7
Love this. Thank you kindly!
Sure thing! o7
Story time with murakumo
"Stay a while and listen." =]
vr vr thank you for this Excellent video 🌹
Sure thing. This one is just more of initial ideas. It'll probably be part of something bigger later. =]
damn i didnt know any of this stuff lol. thanks man
Sure thing, I hope it helps!
Insane video, appreciate the breakdown! At 6:55 you mention "quarter circle back cancelling", is that a faster way to exit HMS than just holding back? Anything more technical to it than just inputting a QCB after entering hitman?
It used to be a way to cancel hitman faster. It visually still seems faster in the neutral, though it appears it doesn't make a difference from blocking anymore. It used to be that from hitman it was 2f to cancel to block with B, and 1 frame to cancel with D/B, so qcB during buffer period would end up blocking one frame quicker.
Now, at least on FC,d/f+4, it seems they both unified the frames for recovery and made holding B able to block on the first frame of recovery (sadly, HMS version used to be 2f better so we actually got a 1F safer version of FC,d/f+4 with the HMS and HMS cancel in T7, which is not gone).
In neutral it still seems visually faster than holding back. qcb in the buffer period also makes sure you won't get an HMS move on recovery if you pressed a little early, which is why it's still a go-to for me, along with muscle memory.
Mura from tekken zaibatsu? Omg you are a legend!
That is I, now merely at almost 3 times the age of my first tournament, hahaha! \o/
@@TZMurakumo during T5-T6 days I always look forward to your posts in TZ along with fightinggms, acid, silver heel, etc. OG Lee's. good times bro I hope all is well.
@@willnotforget4956
In a way, I miss the forums. Great to show people stuff now, but it takes so much more time to produce a video than just write something. Our practice mode tools are also better, but I feel like I spend most of my time just capturing and editing video recently and I'd like to get playing again! =P
Great vid, thank you! I was getting owned at the wall trying to get up against a Lee last night. So looks like grounded side roll is the best option?
I'm not sure how much harder it is vs. HMS u/f+4 into HMS u/f+4, but yeah, I would probably go for grounded side roll if it were me. Unless you play a small character, in which case probably U recovery.
When it comes to timing what would you suggest ? By sound ? Or visually ?
Honestly, it probably depends on the player, so you have to find what would work best for you. I have always been very visual in my timing. Sound and visuals will both suffer when there's lag in response (bad online connections), so muscle memory might be best for combos and things, but lag always really messed me up. =/
Sound can be important in particular with certain defense options. Nothing it popping off the top of my head at the moment, but a notorious example was Bruce's CD+3 vs. CD+2 (low and launch), which had a similar start-up animation. The low, however, made a sound like a kickboxing blowing off air in a hit, and the CD+2 didn't, so audio was actually more important in this situation. There are likely to be other canned mix-ups with something similar, too.
What advantage does b4 have over hms u4 on the wall ?
HMS u/f+4 is better when you can hit it as a low wall hit. b+4 comes out faster and can hit them when they are at the wall but not on the wall, whereas HMS u/f+4 only gives followups vs. grounded and low wall opponents (otherwise they can wake up safely if you hit them higher on the wall or in an "airborne" state. For example, if we have heat (didn't heat burst in combo) and (w) WS+2,3, T! HMS u/f+4, d/f+4,4~F, the opponent is airborne rather than on the wall, so we can't do another HMS u/f+4 (also not enough time), but we can finish with b+4, u/b+3 there.
Also, if you are at a great angle to the wall, HMS u/f+4 can go over opponents, whereas SS, b+4 can keep them in front of you and better angled to sandwich between you and the wall in these instances.
In most situations, low wall HMS u/f+4 is better, but there are a few spots where I would elect for b+4
That’s what I need. Thx man!
Most welcome! o7
It's Cheat 😂 lol