Sidequest Book Club Episode 1: Dark Knight
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Welcome to the first, 'we underestimated our first choice of subject matter'-sized episode of a new podcast, where two friends take one of the side stories of Final Fantasy XIV, and analyze it as the storytelling it is! We're starting with a big one: Dark Knight's job story, full of deep feelings, deeper thoughts, and even deeper holes where we keep sticking that giant sword. So join us as we discuss if Fray is Batman or Robin, Mara compares her favorite job quest NPC to her favorite Gundam MILF, and Cleretic somehow brings in cut content from Heavensward during Stormblood!
Comment down below your own feelings on Dark Knight's questline, or your feelings about our feelings!
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I always got the feeling that when people were reacting to "Fray," they were really talking to you, and you were responding, but "fray" was making your perception that they were responding to him.
So basicly, you did it all, but by your perception, fray was a separate person after you picked up the job stone.
Cause they even mention how you made your voice different late on in the dk questline...
That is more or less the intention in the English script. Japanese script went a different angle.
Ignoring the "Fray is in your head" twist in the English localization, I always saw lvl 30-50 Fray as a being more reflective of the state my WoL was in after the bloody banquet, rather than anything to do with the meta spin about fetch quests. Since job quests take place in the expansion they are introduced in, the WoL picked up the job stone after being betrayed and believing a good 70% of the people they care for are dead or locked away. Fray manifested the way he did because he's based of the WoL's psyche at their lowest. He's the part of the WoL that wants to lash out for being stabbed in the back after risking life and limb for Eorzra turned up to 11 under the effects of the Job Stone. That's why come SB Fray is not as abrasive as before, the WoL was simply in a better (not perfect, Myste exist after all) state of mind. The sting of that betrayal has waned, and Fray is more centered around the self-love aspect that was hidden beneath the anger. The lvl 80 capstone the WoL coming to terms with who they've become after walking the road that started with them doing odd jobs in the starter city. Fray is the mirror telling the WoL that they might stumble on the road ahead, but the core aspects of their character will see them through the hardships and pain that they will inevitably face. That's my stance on the matter, anyway. If I had more creativity and time, I would've made a shorter comment.
Love what you're doing, but I'm still waiting on the rest of the Primal videos and a SAM or SMN Job retrospective wouldn't hurt either. I can only rewatch the illuminati video so many times
To prove I listen to the end....people dislike the Warrior quest line?! Never heard that before. But for my mental health I avoid reddit like the plague it is.
Personally the merchant at the Dry Docks works for me but that's me bring real world baggage into it. He reminds me of a lot of tourists that travel up to Canada. We didn't damage the goods but he tries to blame us to get more from us and Fray reacts how I wish I could with no fear of job lose.
Hearing the translations and localization confusion does fill in some blanks.
Great back and forth. Also I loved the end walker caster story line. It was the end walker healer that did nothing for me but I can't figure out why.
Love how you two came at it from role players point of view. I would love the same done to my main. Machinist. Not cause the story is amazing but cause it is kinda so milk toast.
I find that very few people like ALL of the Warrior questline, it's just a question of where the line falls for them. Either people think ARR/HW WAR was a good idea for a story that maybe didn't reach fruition, that SB WAR threw out in favor of comedy... or they think SB WAR is a good comedy story that salvaged the WAR story before it being pretty nothing.
@@EinDose Well I liked all of it, maybe ARR was the weakest but that's not saying all too much. But the humour was well timed. You can only have "watch out he's losing control" happen so often before it becomes boring and played out. Now for me monk more so the ARR story had the worse job story. Maybe cause I had already done Summoner/Scholar, Machinist and both white and black mage but I honestly felt my character would have made the know nothing nerd eat his own glasses with the way he talked down to us. It wasn't till Stormblood where I gave a toss.
Hmm... Machinist you say. We might not go through the whole thing (in one sitting) (again) (because this was a lot to talk through!!!!) but that's actually a good angle, "my main job's storyline is kind of bland, what can we pull from it". Lemme add that to my list!
@@AmaranthWitch Yeah totally get not doing it all at once. Even if Machinst has less to it that's still quests from 30 to 80. And gods yes. When 6.3 came out and we got a Reaper duty I was so mad the game didn't let me standing there as a Machinst have an options of helping repair the truck. Sure someone would have said that isn't needed but it is pretty clear some of the gear we use at 90 WE made.
Have only half finished this but
looking fwd to the next episode
1/3 the way through: Thoroughly enjoying the mild, not at all harsh but still gratifying ripping of the sacred cow that is DRK job guest to shreds and pointing out all the same moments that I felt going through the initial questline of why I did not like it. From coming into it spoiled for the big (predictable) twist -and exactly, a story should not need the spoiler-free single experience to stand on its merits or it has no merit- to finding Fray contradictory, the central concept of the player's assumed resentment of ARR fetch-quests tottering like a two-legged stool, and how weak tank questlines are in general compared to healers and dps.
And how ShB and EW MSQ tackled the message of self-care and 'you can't save the world if you don't also care for yourself' with more deftness.
I have yet to finish the video since I'm at work right now, but even being only an hour in, as someone who loves the Dark Knight Questline, what you two have said so far seems fair and reasonable to me. I can see how it can put words into your character's mouth, almost literally in a way. I never really thought too heavily on how my wol would feel about certain things and just took whatever at face value, if it happens, it happens, if the game told me they felt that way, then they felt that way. She was just a battleholic to me, nothing more, so things just so happened to fit rather well.
I want to say that the wol didn't really approve of Fray's action, but that solely due to a vague remembering of them frowning as they walked away from somewhere after they said something, probably the situation at Moraby most likely, and I assumed their fade in power was also due to this disapproval. Even still we almost leave with them at the final level 50 quest so I guess all that was just my mind.
In English, the WoL isn't really given room to actually DISAPPROVE of Fray, even the most negative option is ambivalent. I believe in Japanese there are outright negative options.
I haven't player through RPR and gotten to know Drusilla yet, but an asshole-ish character I really found myself liking was Geva. It might be the lack of Fray's total misanthropy; she feels justifiably impatient in the way I suppose players were around the release of Heavensward, and her overblown threats read more as a fun quirk. Aside from that, though, I'm not actually sure why I like her so much. (Also, side note, the Fray reveal was just funny to me--even half-anticipated--since I first saw it while playing as a Hrothgar.)
Is confused. What did people have a issue with the Caster job quest in EW? I love it personally.
So did I! But it's a story that really disagrees with people who're broadly anti-religion, which is fairly common among the JRPG and MMO crowds.
@EinDose while I don't consider myself a fan of religious institutions IRL, the direction it took in the story was something I agree with. You can't be expected keep the peace between state and church in a government transitioning period by looking for any reason to attack it. Church did a lot of horrible stuff, but you can't expect them to fix that if they don't have some breathing room.
"healer solo duties focus on making you heal" as a controler player i hate solo healing duties. So much of my healing is done jumping up and down the party list, that any healer solo duty that makes me heal becomes an absolute slog.
I dislike moogles in XIV as a rule, but I love them in the dark knight story line. They basically never care about the plot, and yet insist they be allowed to participate. Contrast them with the Namazu who care deeply about the plot, and know their role in it is as the bad guy.
So why do I love them in Dark knight? Because they look at the dark edgy loner boy, and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is in the wrong story. They dont care about the "plot" that is his bulshit, which allows them to point him to the better story, the one where he actually grows up.