NEW INFINITY WAR VIDEO ESSAY! You kept telling us that Thor was Waititi'd and not Russo'd... so we responded! Let us know what you think... :) ua-cam.com/video/aVzU0mmtxs0/v-deo.html
I like what you said about Winter Soldier, but I think that movie has waaay too much guns and violence. Say what you will, but it didn't really seem like a superhero movie.
excuse me but iron man is my favorite hero, in infinity war he got his ass beat, even when he knew he was going to lose he kept fighting, and fighting, and fighting untill all his armor was destroyed and he had a sword stuck in him. He never gave up. You are wrong about tony sir. And in Avengers two the reason he was laughing was because he was stressed and scared so he hid it with laughing. you are salty
Honestly, i loved iron man through it all but in 3 and avengers the whole point was Stark's downfall. You can't enjoy his way up if you didn't see his downfall
Captain America's good boy persona is really boring. We know what he will do and we know what he stands for because he is the stereotypical good superhero. Stark on the other hand goes out of his way to create suits like the hulkbuster to counter other avengers should the need arise, has his own morals and decisions which give his bad situation in the first Avengers movie and Iron Man 1 all the more heavy seeing we all seen him make mistakes and do the wrong things for the right reasons.
Why is nobody speaking about the scene in age of ultron, where nick furry points out starks biggest fear: not dying but watching everybody else die! Thanos made his biggest fear come true.
The way Tony initially interacted with the Avengers is exactly how I expected. Loner characters are usually a bit standoff-ish when they're forced to work in a team.
In addition to that, he later revealed he was jealous of Steve because of the way his father kept bragging about him. He believe this is why he was always willing to oppose his authority during Avengers.
@@catspaw3092 Bit late but.... Tony was the only full-on loner other then Bruce and that was mainly due to the Hulk. Steve and Thor have fought with people before, Steve in the war as a solider and as a well Captain, Thor has been in countless battles due to his age and has several friends he fights with often. Even if he fought alone Thor still had experience in team combat. Clint and Widow are agents of shied and have previous battles under their belt together. Tony has never once fought with a team and even before he became Iron man he still preferred to work solo. I think you're confusing a reluctant team up of random people of people being loners.
@Daniel Ezulike It depends on which Batman you're talking about. There's so many nowadays. Batman is usually like Tony in many ways. He always tends to see the other members as helpers rather then equals. One of the main reasons Batman helped found the JL was as a contingency for if he ever went rouge (evil) or brainwashed. In most of the continuing (more than one movie) JL movies Batman is constantly going off and doing things by himself and then people, usually Super man, would yell at him for it . "We're a team Bruce not a solo act. This isn't Gotham anymore we all need to work together". Basically how it goes. Tony and Bruce tend to want to do things solo because They think their the only one who can do or at least the best B They don't want to endanger other people or have them get in the way.
Tony didn't just "snap out of" his issues in Iron Man 3. That feeling of vulnerability fed into his desire to build Ultron, his suit of armor around the world. When Ultron went rogue and Tony started laughing it was at the irony that the thing he'd built to protect the world against his fears had become the very thing he feared.
im really glad im not the only one defending tony's behavior in age of ultron. its not even just the irony, i feel like his laughing is also the realization that despite his best efforts, hes managed to make the same mistake he made in the first iron man movie. thats a big blow to take, and on top of that everyone in that room is pissed at tony, including himself, so he gets defensive and starts akting like kindof an ass.
Laughter can come as a response to extreme stress, guilt or anxiety. See Walter White in the second to last episode of season 4 of Breaking Bad. I think that's what they were going for, but I don't think they executed it well.
I dunno... Tony saying "I have a plan: attack." is something that fits with his character, as Tony would usually make that kind of joke or comment. Though Whedon ran with that instead of having Tony make an actual plan like he would actually followup with.
And it’s so weird because he had come up with a plan at the end of the movie to fight the Levithan, why not there? I guess because Marvel really wanted Iron Man Vs. Thor.
@@TheOriginalEdFry Yeah, but he also pretty much broadcasted it in the Avengers: "That's the guy my Dad never shut up about?" It was pretty obvious in context as well, considering they explored Tony's daddy issues in Iron Man 2, granted how difficult it is to remember Iron Man 2.
Which further proves how much of an asshole he is. Steve Rogers - at least in the comics, don't know if the movies followed that - grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic father who was laying hands on him and his mother. Stark should shut the hell up.
Tony is intentionally being a douche in Avengers 1 because he doesn't trust anyone he's working with other than Banner due to SHIELD's shady behavior. And he's predisposed to dislike Cap because Cap was the thing his dad talked about forever and there's resentment there that isn't Cap's fault. But it's still there. Avengers 2 he's a douche because he feels like he's the only one who's traumatized by what happened in Avengers 1, but deals with it by convincing himself that he's the only one who understood what happened fully.
Or the only thing that Whedon can lock onto is that characteristic. He takes what he was given in the phase one movies and rolled with it and he did the same with phase 2, that's why Cap was way better by the 2nd movie. He didn't give him any characterization or really even an arc. The only two characters that grew from their start point were Scarlet Witch and Ultron and Hawkeye a bit. They were both good movies, but they weren't good movies by themselves. If they didn't have the structure of the phase movies to do all the growth for him then they would fall apart.
it's literally a character train that goes back to the beginning of his character. Remember.. his superpower is being born rich and powerful. Comic book ironman wouldnt be popular...
@Scott Summers you try and act like a billionaire, philanthropist, playboy genius and I'll believe you. Playing a smart person is a struggle for actors let alone convincing people he is a genius level IQ. That's why all the batman actors are not convincing as the worlds greatest detective.
Gary yeah if anything they kinda downgraded him (not all the way to Thor 2 levels) because I liked him without an eye and not needing his hammer or any weapon to be the god of thunder. Still loved him in the movie just kind of a nitpick from me
Literally came to see if someone else said it first before I said it myself. Its such a disservice to Waititi to say that the Russo's turned him around.
@@ApexCalibre eeeeh. Honestly, no. I loved Infinity War and even Thor in it, but the Russos definitely undermined a lot of Ragnarok's character work, and basically shat all over that movie's theme of Thor's home being his people. Just, timeline wise almost immediately after Ragnarok. It was a bit of a sour note.
He got Waititi'd first, and then Russo'd. So, he's not wrong, just not specific. Waititi laid down the ground work for making him an interesting character again, and the Russos added depth to that character. I disliked Thor's constant jokey attitude in Ragnorok, but after watching Infinity War and seeing where it leads his character, I realized it was just how he was dealing with his pain. That's a mark that Waititi missed for me, but the Russos made more apparent. In Ragnorok, it worked more to serve a comedy and to entertain the audience, but the Russos took that, put a spin on it, and made it serve their action thriller.
Gotta say I disagree with you on one thing. I'm very glad they didn't kill off Pepper. The "killing off the girlfriend to give the main character angst" cliche is overdone and tired. We could've done without the fakeout but that's another point.
Iron Man 3 was messed up on many levels. I'm still waiting for Pepper to be on the Avengers. Iron Man can stay in the back and keep inventing stuff and manage from behind.
I still have issue with what they did with Rhodes. He gets crippled.....and that's it. There was a lot of stuff they could do with that, but it was just dropped
Remember pepper can heats up, is very strong and very durable. Tony Stark can give his toys to anyone. Bad example is War Machine(because the government stole it). Good movie example Spider-Man. ua-cam.com/video/LCwM-x-fRbM/v-deo.html
The whole "you killed my parents" thing was actually the best moment of Civil War, DC tried pulling the same thing off but unsuccessfully as a DC fan I always watched the final moments of Civil War just to see what BVS might have been if it was done correctly.
Yes, that scene in Civil War is the heart of the film - the rending of the relationship and the team. It is powerful and masterfully executed. Whereas BvS was a bunch of dreck that had to introduce Doomsday so that they could justify putting in Wonder Woman. Its basic premise was good, but wasted. If they really stuck to Batman and Superman it could have been great.
It was well done because they developed it starting with Winter Soldier. Not only did Bucky do it but Cap knew when he was watching the video Zola showed him
Pleas remember that Wanda gave Tony that horrible vision of the Avengers DEATH in Age of Ultron. His actions in that whole movie can be traced back to the single vision where he feels all the fear and guilt that originated with the Battle in New York. Yes, he laughs when he realizes he created Ultron, but only because he feels that he was fufilling his goal of protecting his friends and the rest of the Earth. Recall that he wanted a "suit of armor around the world".
These people always see what they want.They don't want to see that point of creating Ultron wasn't bad or evil.He created Ultron to protect the world.But they always ignore this fact.
@@gamzetiryaki9307 it's not that they don't see that it's the fact that banner warned him that creating Ultron was a bad idea from the getgo he messed with something he didn't understand he had good intentions but it still backfired badly because he didn't fully think enough to consider that it could go wrong messing with artificial intelligence and put the world at risk
@@elishawilson1429 that's not the point, the video argues that in age of Ultron tony was a dick for the sake of being a dick, this is clearly not the case, tony intentions to create Ultron was good, and when shit backfired he did feel bad, but for him even if Ultron was a failure, it was worth trying for a chance that it might work. a lot of people ignore his conversation with fury about his nightmare where the worst thing he can imagine is everyone dying while he survives.those lines prove he is not being an ass for the sake of it, he did what he thought would protect everyone, lets also not forget that the guy literally said tony is overpowered in age of Ultron because hulk buster defeated hulk , completely ignoring hulk was destroying it and tony basically cheap shotted hulk, and tony destroyed Ultron's body while cap struggled. I for one loved this change, cause hulk destroying hulk buster is incredibly clichéd, so why not let the armour do what it is designed to do, and at the same time it made clear that the only reason hulk got ko'ed is because of a cheap shot, the second example doesn't make any sense iron man is basically a human sized tank with weapons enough weapons for an army, and cap is slightly better than the best athletes, no shit iron man can ko Ultron, he built him and has the fire power to go toe to toe with him, hell I was more surprised when tony didn't wreck both cap and bucky in civil war, just fly out of the damn place and carpet bomb the damn place
The point is the obsession. Ultron falls squarely on Tony's shoulders because it was a horrible idea from the start. Banner told him it was a bad idea, but Tony *knew* that no one else would agree to it because he didn't tell anyone beforehand. He knew they'd say no. Ultron was a predictable problem. Tony thought he knew best and it blew up in Sokovia's face. His intentions were pure, of course they were, Tony's a good person, but his arrogance was absolutely devastating. And if he was trying to take JARVIS to the next level that's one thing, but he was experimenting with the Mind Stone, which was catastrophically stupid.
@@3Rayfire Except it wasn't a horrible idea. At this point Tony had already "meddled" with A.I before. J.A.R.V.I.S and F.R.I.D.A.Y were both A.I's with their own personalities and objectives. Tony said that he didn't tell anyone because the Scepter would only be there for three days, he wasn't being a dick because he was arrogant; he saw an opportunity that was only going to be there for a little while because Thor was then going to take the Scepter with him to Asgard. Imagine if you were in Tony's shoes and had the means to achieve true world peace but you only had a window of three days, I imagine you wouldn't waste that time debating away either. Oh, and Banner did end up agreeing with Tony and worked with him to create both Ultron and later Vision. Why? because he realized that Tony's idea had potential. Also, at this point nobody knew that the Scepter was actually the Mind Stone. Thor found that out later in a vision when Vision was being created (God that sounds weird to say). Do you know what else Thor realized back then? Stark was right. He said it himself. The power of the Mind Stone needed to be harnessed and weaponized to prepare for the future and that's why he used his lightning to create Vision.
5:32 The inappropriate chuckle in A:AoU is one of the symptoms of Stark's PTSD. Basically, he gets it once from the captivity and becomes Iron Man. He gets it again from the wormhole nuke and the Battle of New York, which cranks that "I gotta protect everything" up to 11. The conflict with Ultron is a bit of a wake-up call for him, and he starts getting a handle on things again. But he's still trying to be Mr. Fix-it by signing the Accords, then mentoring Parker, and even in A:IW, he's gunning to be the one to take out Grimace as a personal vendetta rather than a save-the-universe thing. It's actually a rather consistent trait post-captivity. it may not always produce the Stark we like to see, but it's a terribly real character arc. IM3 and A:AoU are his second Act, his low point. We're not, I think, SUPPOSED to like him as much. My point is that STARK was/is broken, not the way he was written/presented.
I would disagree- I think Civil War and heading into Infinity War is his low point- thats when we see everything stripped away from him (in a similar way to Thor) and he tries to overcome the most strife. Whedon himself has said that his Stark is "on the spectrum" whereas the Russos, for me, go for more "tortured genius". To each their own, and I'm glad one of us could enjoy him in those movies! Thanks for watching
Moemura actually scarlet witch's mind magic only brought up what was already in him. That was his fears from the first avengers hitting him over the head. Just so happens that it is also the issues he was dealing with in ironman 3.
I think you've severely misread Tony Stark's reaction to Ultron's awakening. That laugh isn't the response of a douchebag, it's the response of someone who is terrified of what he's done and has no idea how to deal with it. A douchebag would try to justify himself, which Tony does also do in Age of Ultron so I wonder why you didn't show that instead of showing the clip of him "eating that humble pie" like you claim he doesn't do in the first two Avengers movies.
Wanda, has messed with his mind as well. As soon as he gets the chance to, he's obsessively pushing to complete Super-Bot 2.0 (Ultron2 aka The Vision), not even learning from his mistake of Ultron 1.0 in the days prior. The Russos do a great job with Characters and story, thankfully they have Marvel Execs who come in with other teams to, handle the fights and special effects. In every film documentary, you hear Fight choreographers talking about fight scenes furthering story and character and they tell their own little story. And where-as in a "martial arts movie" this is front and center, I don't think the action scenes in the Russo movies can't be understated how well they work with regards to story and character. The marvel + russo team-up is a well oiled beautiful machine. Even the round-table, (Infinity war bonus) even James Gunn and Tiaka were just like ball fondling. You make it gritty Jason Bourne-esque captain america thing work, and then cut it with Guardians and Thor3 whimsy and make it feel true to those characters and styles those other directors set up.
If there was supposed to be more to the laugh and the rest of his behavior than him just being a douche, the scene does an overall poor job of conveying it.
Paul Dixon you're spot on about Scarlet Witch messing with Tony Stark's mind. It's always bothered me how she suddenly turned into a superhero without any reasonable explanation. Didn't she sign up for Hydra to get revenge on Iron Man? Doesn't she have to take some responsibility for helping to creating Ultron? She literally didn't change her mind until she realised that Ultron was going to kill everyone -- when it was kill or be killed. How is she a hero? Her arc was just terrible. And the Russo brothers just swept all that under the carpet.
She has Tony's death the funeral and when he tells her about the time heist she was definitely good in the movie because of the fact that he was leaving behind his daughter and the love of his life
All Seeing Eye of Agimoto that might be the most revealing line of the last 10 years worth of movies. Thanos knows it and Stark always knew it. It will come down to them. With some other sacrifices to save the universe.
I have the feeling that when Thanos said "All of that for a drop of blood", he was referring not to the fight Iron Man put on, but to the entirety of Tony's life since he and Yinsen decided to build the first suit.
It’s also pretty cool that despite all the other people fighting thanos and all the things they do to hurt him, like throwing a ship at him or pistol whipping, tony is the only one to get a good clean strong shot to make thanos bleed
great point. thanos was only talking about the fight on titan, every fucking thing they threw at him and that's all they got out of it, a small drop of blood. but yeah, tony would've been thinking of everything from Ultron, building a army of suits, new York, everything
One critique of this video: I don't think enough credit is given to RDJ himself (who apparently is very prepared and improvisational in the role). It seems to me that he's bringing a lot of the darkness and intensity that you're crediting the Russos with. (Also, while I do agree that there was a lull in Tony's arc around Phase 2, there is still some interesting picking apart of his narcissism that fuels those films and feeds into his Civil War "Russo Renaissance" period).
I 100% agree. Give that part to someone else and Ironman is a failure. A perfect example of that is Two and a half Men. Same writers, same everything except for one major change. And that tv show wasn’t the same. And it tanked. So you can’t tell me that it’s all about the writing and directing. Some actors can just deliver lines the way they should be. The realized that two weeks into making Back to the Future. RDJ was great in Weird Science, I think I’m the only person I know make that connection, and he’s just one hell of an actor. You can tell he enjoys what he does. Good point my friend.
RDJ is the reason the MCU exists. He is magnificent in that role--and you're right. I think he's bringing a ton of the darkness, conflict, torment and outward egotism that RDJ probably felt as a young actor who got addicted to drugs.
There is even the fact that the MCU wouldn’t the massive movie success that it is today if it wasn’t for the amazing performance of RDJ. If anyone else was in the role like say Tom Cruise who was strongly considered for the role before RDJ was cast it wouldn’t have been as successful. I do think box office wise they would have made good money, but without the charm of RDJ I don’t think that it wouldn’t have drawn enough people back for more. Also people love a good story about a man rising up after being brought so low which reflected in RDJ’s real life which helped bring about the same perspective on his Tony. Tony both in the movies and the comics is a man who wrestles with his inner demons and usually finds a way to overcome them which is why his story works and RDJ understands that perfectly, it is also why Tony Stark and RDJ feel so much like the same man too.
Not disagreeing with the video, but at the same time I kinda liked Tony in Avengers, and that part where he says "I have a plan. Attack" is pretty badass. But to each his own
I think Tony's reason for responding to Cap that way is, Tony is used to handle things alone, Cap, as a soldier, is used to work in a team. Cap wants to make a plan, Tony wants to get going and improvise as needed...
Tony probably had a plan, except at that point he is used to work alone, so his plan probably was only for himself. Explaining everything to cap would have slowed them down.
As for the doucheyness of him in Avengers 1, he's intentionally provoking people to size them up. You see him do it to Strange in their first meeting, with that "Balloon animals" comment, so it's not just a Whedon thing - the Russos have him do it, too.
John Huffman Yeah it's more of his Ego feeling threatened a little bit by the "new guy" it shows as well because during the film he works with Strange and gets over it.
It definitely something I see men of power/business people do all the time in informal setting. Still is unlikable as a character trait, but is spot on for his archetype
@@TheGerkuman Exactly. I don't know why so many people ignore this part of it. The mind stone was messing with all of them, increasing their less desirable qualities, throughout the first two Avengers movies.
There is a strong reason that it might be RDJr.'s last film. The reason is so that Peter Parker can become the next leader and create his own team: The Second Avengers (Ultimate Spider-Man animated series) when Tony Stark retires.
Mattron Not immediately, but eventually. Peter will become Tony's successor and Peter also goes on to build his own company called "Parker Industries", doesn't he?
Actually, I suspect Captain Marvel will take the role of the leader of the Avengers in the next phase. Spiderman still needs to mature a bit before becoming a leader, but his happy-go-lucky and fearless character will always be a boon to whomever makes the decisions. To me it was the same aspect between Ironman and Steve Rogers. Stark was the general and HQ strategist, Cap was the tactician and battlefield commander who was able to adapt to the fluidity and fog of war when plans were thrown out. This is why Stark ceded control over to Cap in the first Avengers movie during the final fight.
I don't see it so much as the Russos "fixing" Iron Man as they continued the natural trajectory of Tony's character. Tony was always arrogant, and after defeating two big time villains and walking away relatively unscathed through it all, of course he's going to be even more arrogant than before. Going into the Avengers, he was tested and shaken by the attack on New York, which is reflected in Iron Man 3 and ultimately paid off in Age of Ultron, when he creates Ultron as a way of coping with his PTSD: he'll never have to be in danger again if the fleet of AI units is protecting the world. Thus, it's only natural for him to be guilty and seeking redemption from Civil War on. He created Ultron and then essentially tore the team apart and now he's going to blame himself for Peter's death even though it wasn't his fault. It's called character growth, and yes, some writers handled it better than others, but they all contributed to this amazing arc that RDJ has performed flawlessly.
In Avengers Tony acts the way he does because he's been the big dog. He's never met the Hulk. His childhood was in the shadow of the tales of Captain America. He never felt he had his fathers respect and love but he knew Cap did. So of course he goes into Avengers being a prideful dick. Here's something to remember, outside his close friends, he comes off as a prideful dick to everyone else. Just because he stopped selling weapons and took some responsibility didn't do a 180 on his personality. More like 90 degrees. As the film goes on Tony get's more humbled by not being the strongest and having to accept this new status quo. Iron man 3 - Tony is never cured of his PTSD but he learns to manage it.......until he doesn't in AOU. I can see the issue moreso here then Avengers. Some of this payoff doesn't occur until a later movie. AOU - Okay he's laughing not because it's funny but he's having a mental breakdown. We learned about this in the first two films. When Tony is in a situation he can't control he resorts to the sarcasm and doing something reckless that he can control. Rhodes pointed this out in the first film. We see it when he goes off to the middle east in the suit. In Iron Man 2, the racing scene and getting drunk and starting a fight with Rhodes. Now as to being overpowered. It established that Tony has gotten very good at making these suits. Additionally Ultron's body is just some metal. He mocks Tony as much. He'll just jump into a another build. He destroys that version with an upgraded Ultron suit. Of course Iron Man can trash Ultrons body no problem. Ultron doesn't care. Now I could see the lack of consequences because starting with building Vision, things a smooth sailing for Stark. Then comes Civil War to deal with the fallout. The PTSD is still there but Tony has shifted focus from building a bunch of random suits to building the one perfect one. Now as to the Whedonisms. Take all these characters from their little worlds and force them into one room. Thor doesn't know these people. he was preachy to Jane and co before he got to know them. Same thing happened in AOU. He knew the Avengers and was less formal. Cap is no constantly reminding people he's from the 40's. The one scene you point out is him trying to fit in. For once he's not the odd man out. In a way that reminds us of who Steve was before he joined the war. Beyond that he's like Rhodes minus the friendship with Tony. In the end it's hard to address these films after the fact. Sitting in a theater, you didn't know Infinity War would happen. For me personally I look at these films as whole and see the wider story.
Nah Tony just sucked after Iron Man 1 until the Russos got a hold of him in Civil War. Iron Man 3 is actually among my least favorite mcu movies comparable to Thor the Dark World
Omg! It's Amazing!!! And at 14:58a And Caps eyes, they look like they'refilled with tears, feeling so sad for Tony and knowing he was caught...those scenes only work because of how great those two portray the characters. I love immediately after, Tony reacts to the betrayal like and actual hit to his physical body, recoiling from Steve. The trying to calm himself and unable to and just going after them. Freaking magic!
Really bad point in Vid. Extends from Civil War Tony being a horrible human being. Lies to a little kid to back him up. Then again, i think this is what happened in the comic too so...generally Tony is a pretty bad person.
I went to see infinity war on opening night alone. Left the wife and kids at home. The collective inhale from grown men when tony got stabbed almost made a vacuum in the theater. I have never been so emotionally attached to anything that I’m not related to.
To be fair, he only threw PART of a moon at him. Had Thanos thrown the WHOLE moon, everyone would have died. Except Thanos, cause Space Stone. I doubt even Stark could tank a celestial body of that size, and at this point Strange was out of commission, so he can't just turn it into a bajillion butterflies.
Thanos didn't want to kill them until he got the time stone, so he was counting on Tony stopping the bulk of the moon from hitting. Indeed, it was only a diversion to beat the crap out of Dr. Strange and the rest of the group without Tony backing them up.
Trevyn Lane But then Thanos goes on to almost kill Tony anyway? Don’t think so, bud. Thanos was very much out to kill. The only one he knew he wasn’t allowed to kill was Strange. The others were just minor obstacles that could either be exposed of or casually tossed aside. Stark was the exception to the “minor obstacles” thing due to his massive amount of power.
And THIS is why the MCU is great. They are changing the superhero genre. They are making it viable. We are, in essence, not watching a movie about super-powered beings just to see powers. We are watching a movie about a character that happens to have super powers. There is a difference. I guarantee that Logan and Deadpool wouldn't have been made if the MCU failed. Expect this to be a standard yearly genre like horror, rom-coms, war dramas, zombie flicks, etc.
The MCU is great, I can't wait to re-watch all the movies before the 2nd part of avengers 4 (just to settle my thirst for more avengers movies), however to say that they are changing the superhero genre and making it viable feels like you're forgetting about the dark knight trilogy.
@Bob Bobbertson You just said it yourself, you watched LESS than half the Marvel movies......and you then expect to enjoy Infinity War?! Of course you don't care about anything in the movie. You don't know any of the characters and their motivations so when they finally meet their match and get dusted, it doesn't mean anything. Do you just watch a few episodes of a season and then the season finale? And saying it is a trend setting genre for film isn't naive at all. It is just as much a genre as a Western is at this point. Look at all the superhero movies that have came out and the countless more coming out as well. M. Night Sham is making his own "superhero" movie in Glass. And the movie Brightburn is a superhero spinoff movie. Lets face it, superheroes are big money these days and the audiences are only getting bigger. Superheroes are the new Western............and they'll probably die like they did too.
I like your videos, but I'll have to disagree with parts of this one. In Iron Man, Tony's character arc was fairly straightforward. He was a rich businessman who made his money from the sale of weapons, and others in his company were selling the weapons to terrorists without his knowledge. The media attacked him and claimed he was responsible, but he mostly just denied all of the allegations, because he was naïve and believed his company was innocent. He's also incredibly arrogant (as we see when he doesn't show up to receive an award, choosing instead to go gambling). Throughout the movie, we see him discover the guilt of his company and force them to become more accountable, even fighting his former friend Obadiah Stane. At the end of the movie, Tony Stark is no longer blinded by his ego, but his arrogance remains. In Iron Man 2, we still see his arrogance and ego, especially at the Stark Expo. This is partly due to his character arc not having completed in Iron Man, but I think it mostly comes down to him "being in a bad place" and trying to deflect from his impending death due to his arc reactor poisoning his blood. The main character development in this movie occurs after his fight with Rhodes, where we can see he realises what an idiot he's been. Once he invents the new element to replace his existing arc reactor and save himself, we see him back to the person he was at the end of the first Iron Man, possibly even more developed. In The Avengers, we finally see him meet his match. In his own solo outings before this, he's beaten both the Iron Monger and Whiplash, leaving him pretty cocky (which we could also see early in Iron Man 2). Now he comes face to face with people with superpowers, including Captain America, Thor and The Hulk. I feel like his thoughts towards superpowers are expressed well in a conversation he has with Steve, where Tony is quoted as saying "You're a laboratory expirement, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle." It's why we never see the same enmity between him and Bruce or Thor. Bruce was part of the team that gave him powers and was a scientist. Thor had to prove himself worthy to regain his powers. Captain America, however, basically just got them for free after someone else did all of the work. Tony Stark prides himself on his success without having powers, but in this movie he attacks Steve because he hasn't worked to achieve a similar level of power. At the end of the movie, Tony's arc from self-absorbed weapons dealer to selfless hero appears complete to many when he almost sacrifices himself by taking the nuke through the wormhole, but I would argue that although he has become a hero and defends others, the egotistical façade has emerged. As you discussed in your Thor video, flaw and façade often eventually trade places in character's arcs, and I think this is where that finally occurs for Tony. In Iron Man 3, we see Tony experiencing anxiety attacks and suffering from PTSD after the events of The Avengers. Many attribute this to him seeing the other side of the wormhole and almost dying, but I think it comes down to encountering superpowers. He's always been powerful enough to face everything that's come at him before, but in The Avengers, this was no longer the case, because other people got free 'Superpower' cards that he wasn't dealt. Because of this we see him obsessively developing suit after suit in attempt to remain powerful as others rise. I feel like using Killian and the Extremis Program as the villains of the film works well, as we see him fight against superpowered beings to overcome his fear. In Avengers: Age of Ultron, Tony's had enough of being a hero. He promised Pepper he would stop, but he has to keep building them to keep everyone safe. When he has access to the mind stone, he creates Ultron so that he can go home and be with Pepper, but after it backfires, he feels responsible for what happens. We also see that, although he doesn't experience anxiety attacks anymore, his PTSD as we saw in Iron Man 3 is ever present. The laugh at creating Ultron was showing his instability as he knows he's finally created something to defeat superpowered beings and it's a monster. He helps face it down, but then goes home, feeling as though he can no longer trust himself. In Captain America: Civil War, we see him forced to come to terms with what he caused in Age of Ultron. At this point, his trauma from The Avengers is coming forward, with the added pressure of the deaths he caused in Age of Ultran pushing on him even further. At this point, he seems almost paranoid. He attempts to keep the team together, but misunderstands the situation, believing Cap's judgement to be askew and not believing Bucky was brainwashed. He eventually realises otherwise and sets out to help. This is where his character is most clear. He doesn't have anything against heroics, that isn't why he signed the Accords. He signed the Accords because of his concern for collateral damage. When people were killed and Bucky escaped, he sees that is being on Cap. Now, they are headed to an abandoned facility with nobody to get hurt, and he believes Cap's story. This is then ruined by Stark finding out about his parents' murder and losing it. It's a logical way for his character to digress, works with the villains plan and doesn't feel forced, but this is the action that sets back his arc. It's his darkest moment and, although his ideologies are the same as they have been all the way through the movie, this feels like Iron Man 2 Stark. He comes across a problem, drives people away, even getting into a fight with a close friend. In Spider Man: Homecoming we see his ideology from Civil War. He doesn't have enough time in this movie to have much of an arc, but we see him berate Peter when he attacks the arms dealers on the boat because of the potential collateral damage, but congratulates him for defeating the Vulture in the final fight because he kept anyone from getting hurt. In Avengers: Infinity War, this is the culmination of his arc. He hears about Thanos, the guy who sent the chitauri in the first movie. This is who caused the experience that gave him PTSD. The reason he's been so obsessed has been partly about dealing with superpowers in general, but the focus has always been Thanos. His whole journey has lead up to this fight. He still hasn't forgiven Steve, and instead opts to set out for Titan alone, although Doctor Strange is there because he has the Time Stone and was kidnapped by Ebony Maw, Spider Man sneaks in against Tony's wishes, and they meet the Guardians of the Galaxy on Titan. He faces him down in the fight he's been preparing for for six years, and he loses terribly, resulting in the deaths of half the universe, including that of Peter Parker.
What you said here is perfect. It's exactly how I see his arc. Although I disagree on the last bit. He would have called Steve if he weren't interrupted
Tony, Thor, and Rogers in that order. Daredevil and Luke Cage have also changed a lot since their MTU (Marvel Televised Universe) debuts. Especially Luke. That cliffhanger deserves another season.
but as stated in Iron Man two, "If you could make God bleed, people would cease to believe in Him. There will be blood in the water, the sharks will come"
A-DrewG No, that's weak. Because that talks about god status: a fallacy waiting to be shown as such. It breaks down the image but not the literal power. THanos is mighty not because people think he is through lies. He is really actually powerful despite no one knowing who he is- especially after the fall of his people in Titan. If you want to take down the pope (which is a false image of power) you make him bleed in public. But if you want to take down power such as Thanos, you really need to out power him. There are no smoke and mirrors with Thanos' powers. You can see hope crumble in Tony's eyes when Thanos delivers the 'drop of blood' line. Tony knew he has nothing, did nothing, and everything failed. That realization from Tony himself shows your sentence as being false- and why I love the Thanos character: because he really was a match not just for Tony, but for freaking every superhero out there and he took down the lot of them at once. Now THAT'S how you make a threat! Thanos is the first villain that made me feel he was an actual threat.
@@shmookins It's not about making the public see it, only themselves. They are the ones that need to know that this strange guy with all of this incredible power ISN'T something on par with a god, therefore they have the confidence to defeat him. Maybe, that didn't manifest by the end of the film, but it will play a factor for some of the heroes later on. "If it bleeds, we can kill it."
@@shmookins I totally understand. The trailer did give away a few things, but it seemed like it was designed to give us as little as they could about it. If you do want to make sure you are completely caught up before next year, they have comics that take place between Infinity War and Avengers 4. They aren't necessary for following the movies, but it would satisfy any desires to see anything without really spoiling the movie itself. Dude, I can't wait either! I hope you enjoy it.
Marvel should keep Russo Brothers for future movies especially big team up one (like Avenger and Civil War) coz they know what they're doing and manage to tell a great story
@@FullFatVideos btw with the addition of Captain Marvel in the MCU, how do you think the possibility of Civil War ll to happen? Maybe in the long run? Since Inhuman and Mile Morales is one of the biggest character in that storyline
I think it would be a cool to see a very different version of Civil War 2 in the MCU... Possibly between Captain Marvel and Black Panther? Since Iron Man would obviously be unavailable.
Yep there really good with ensemble cast and giving each one their own screentime. I'm excited for anything the Russos do from now on I heard they're a mystery cop drama which Chadwick Boseman which looks very promising.
To be frank...the Russo Brothers do a great job, but I actually suspect that the MIPs aren't really them, but Markus and McFeely. They wrote the whole Captain America Franchise plus the pilot for Agent Carter...they also polished the script for GotG, and while it is a little bit difficult to tell who did what on Thor The Dark World writing-wise, my impression is that Marvel pulled them in after the first test screenings went so badly and they were responsible for flashing out the Loki-Arc, which is the one thing in this movie which works and rescues it from being utterly unwatchable. Not to diminish the Russo Brothers, even a great script can be ruined by a terrible director. But we shouldn't forget that the strength in their movies are for a large part the excellent writing, and they aren't the ones responsible for the screen play.
The moment at the start of endgame where, on his return to Earth, the first thing he says is “I lost the kid” was one of the best touches. Really emphasised that relationship.
“To feel that you are right, yet to fail nonetheless?” -Thanos These lines fit the Entirety of what Tony went through in a nutshell. For 6 years he saw a threat coming. 6 years he tried to prepare. Yet in the end he failed nonetheless. “Even if we don’t save The Earth we will Avenge it!” -Tony Stark, Avengers ....and now we will see him live up to his claim from the First Avengers movie. Now it’s time for them to live up to their name; The Avengers!!
it is a shame they had them all split up though for infinity war because that is one thing that they could not deliver on was when cap said that we will lose together too if they had too. I can't believe after the fallout of civil war they would not take advantage and have them needing to fight along side each other once more against thanos and fail together instead of everyone vanishing in all different areas of the universe. Hopefully they make that happen in the next one as that will be the swan song of the original characters and maybe that is where they all will die to bring back the vanished ones.
Tony has nothing left to lose. We will definitely see another side and part of Tony that we never thought was possible. I'm so ready it's not even funny.
True, but his tact was way offff. I think by comparison the way he speaks to Steve about his father in Civil War is closer to what I'd expect Tony to be like i.e. not a complete dick
@@FullFatVideos MCU Tony had a history of being a dick right from the first movie. Did you completely forget about how rude he treated that reporter he later had sex with? Remember his scene in court from IM2? I liked this video, but I disagree with a lot of your arguments. Tony's transformation from arrogantly benevolent to outright selfless protector seemed realistic and earned over all the movies, including both Avengers. It was a gradual process not a light switch moment.
I mean in iron man 2 he does say that his dad never loved or never told him that he liked him, he constantly talked about Cpt. America and not acknowledging his own son. So yeah, i kinda get why he was being a dick to Steve, jealousy
@Mr Mindverse Of course. It's not the masterpiece of cinema that some fanboys would like to say. And there are various things I'm not happy with. I'm just saying they're not all simple minded action flicks.
Mr Mindverse To he honest their only horrible movies are only horrible compared to the rest of the MCU. If they were standing alone by themselves then they would probably only be bad or even just mediocre.
I disagree with some of your points so you must delete your video now, as there is clearly no other solution for our disagreement and we cannot possibly accept that people just have different opinions
When I reflect on the movies that have Tony Stark, I get a slow realization that Tony is suffering from multiple kinds of trauma and is just not getting help until CACW, when he is at his lowest. I do think what happen in Spider-Man Homecoming, he finally got professional help and his mentoring Peter got him on a road to recovery. By Infinity War, things are great, him and Pepper are getting married, he's excited for the future, Peter is still alive and thriving. And then Thanos comes in and it all goes to hell. Thanks Thanos. I really hope Nebula tears you apart in the next movie.
JosepiThe13th imagine if Shuri and Tony got together to help Nebula get a better body, l not one designed as punishment like Thanos did to her for losing against Gamora.
honestly theyve been taking every chance to give tony more ptsd, like every movie he has to deal with world shattering experiences, deaths, and near misses, and when the end is finally in sight, some guy he barely knows messes it up, and he has to watch as one of the only people he shows genuine care for are clinging to him desperately as they die.
Iron Man 3 is essentially akin to a Batman Movie that only stars Bruce Wayne for 95% of it - oh wait they made that it was Called Dark Knight Rises and it kinda sucked.
No one's talking about Robert Downey Jr as an actor, and his role as iron man. But the writing behind the character. No one's trying to argue that Robert didn't do a phenomenal job lol.
Tony's easily the best character of the entire MCU and one of the most complex. He gets treated like complete crap but he keeps trying/doing the right thing and his entire goal was to prepare for a threat nobody else was paying attention to or took seriously. Every time someone talked down to him or treated him badly I just wanted to lash out. The guy is trying to gain redemption for things that aren't even his fault, he's constantly blamed for things yet when anyone else does something wrong they get a pass but not him. The guy puts up with a hell of a lot of stuff that I certainly wouldn't. Tony's like an abused kid, he'll take all the abuse in the world, if it means someone will love him. It's tragic. Is nobody going to point out that Tony wasn't out of line at all in how he acted in Civil War? He wasn't the one out of line. It was Steve Rogers who constantly needs a war to fight because that's what his existence has come down to. He's the one who basically told 170 countries to go f- themselves. He's the one who brushed off collateral damage as if it doesn't matter or that good guys don't have to answer for that sort of thing. Because they do. All the time. Unavoidable loss of life is one thing, but loss of life out of negligence or abuse of power is a whole other. Were the Accords right? NO. But Rogers certainly wasn't either.
Except that the Sokovia Accords are in fact wrong. Just as the Mutant Registration Act that preceded it in the comics was extremely wrong. The only time that the Avengers acted where the collateral damage was their fault, was actually the one time it was Tony's fault, Ultron. The Battle of Johannesburg, was instigated by Wanda on Ultron's actions. Crossbones blew himself up, and he would've either killed everyone in the market, or killed everyone somewhere else. Wanda tried to save everyone, but she didn't pull the pin. And of course, Loki showing up on Thanos' orders was completely out of left field. And the Avengers were Fury's in case of emergency break glass plan. The governmental entity with authority, the World Security Council tried to nuke New York. Steve wasn't just telling 170 countries to go fuck themselves, Steve who had just gone through Hydra completely subverting SHIELD and about to wipe out all opposition to their rule, was completely justified in not trusting governmental authorities with using the Avengers correctly. This point is brought up in the film when Tony brings up that Banner would agree with him. When the person administering the accords was going to be General Thaddius "Thunderbolt" Ross, the poster child for the government abusing a super powered individual. "As far as I'm concerned, Banner's whole body is US Army property." In the meantime Steve was pursuing a personal connection instead of worrying about the law. It's also unusual that he should have to explain that the Avengers independence is important to the guy who said, "You can't have my property, but I did you a favor, I have successfully privatized world peace." Note Tony was right about that, as the senator who wanted his armor was HYDRA. Tony's fatal flaw in the argument over the Sokovia Accords was that he was letting his guilt dictate his judgment instead of thinking rationally. Tony was trying to push the responsibility of their actions on to someone else, namely the government because he couldn't handle the guilt, and he was thinking oversight would ease that burden. He was lying to himself. Steve's fatal flaw was of course Bucky. His only tangible connection to his old life. Something he would protect to the end. He had already proven himself willing to lay down his life to save Bucky in Winter Soldier. As far as the collateral damage goes, that happens in war too. Steve is a soldier. If you're going to fight, there's usually going to be damage. If you're worried about collateral damage, then your only option is not to fight. But then the enemies don't actually care about collateral damage. Or you put the Avengers in jail after the fact. The question is where is the negligence, where is the abuse of power? Steve is the one who said they would focus on evacuating the civilians out of Nova Grad before the final battle with Ultron, "Ultron thinks that we're dangerous. This battle isn't just about winning, it's about if he's right."
i always thought Tony was laughing about Ultron trying to kill them all as him going hysterical that he's "done it again" created another weapon that's going to be used for harm rather than good.... also the hulkbuster armour was designed by both Banner and Tony, both of which had a clear understanding of the Hulk... for the Tony to lose that fight would have made both Banner and Stark feel like they had no clue what they were doing... I do agree that Tony's kind of OP though
I get your point about the hulkbuster, but at the end of the day that scene needed some emotional substance to it. It was just a long-winded and one-sided fight without much drama to it
I agree with the opinion that Tony's bitter laugh was about the furthest thing from being a douche. The Ultron entity they were fighting against had been made up of two main component: the original Ultron system and JARVIS, both of those were creations of Tony himself. Two AIs conceived, coded and developed by Tony. Ultron in the first second of its existence must have been 98% pure Tony, I guess, and Tony is pretty much aware of this fact. Then his friend asks him why this creature wants to wipe out humanity. I think his unhinged laugh was a wonderfully nuanced moment of characterization, in fact. The Russo brothers have my deepest respect, but I will never be able to understand where this "Whedon-kicking" attitude comes from. Joss has a completely different approach and movie-goers are free to have their preferences, but these directors are working together not against each other, if you notice. The best illustration of that is, ironically, a parallel between the scene when Tony pokes Banner in The Avengers and when Tony involves Peter in the airport fight years later [19:08]. And that's because it shows continuity. Both of these decisions of Tony were based on taking a calculated risk after a thorough research. Tony's quite sure Banner wouldn't turn from just any small provocation, he just needed to see how close he comes to turning, so Tony can assess the danger Banner poses to them all. He'd spent the night reading tons of SHIELD data about the other Avengers, for Pete's sake. Just as he trusted himself to keep Spiderman safe from any major harm in Civil War, based on his internet research about the kid's skills and level of endurance. You just chose to interpret the two instances of the same character trait differently to fit your narrative.
Its like I said in another reply, If the laugh wasn't meant to be a douche response, then it sure wasn't executed very well. It comes of as douchey because of his douchey response after the laugh itself. It was handled very poorly.
Blue for You Like any performing art, it’s in the eye of the beholder. For me, RDJ’s expression leaves no questions in this scene, for others like you it tells something else. It’s a different story for every single person in the audience, and that’s the way it should be, actually. :)
Honestly I am SO TIRED of people constantly calling Tony the villain of Civil War, or even Captain America. These people fail to see the whole point of the movie, which is that neither side is completely right or wrong, they are just extreme point of views with both pros and cons. Whenever someone tries to call Tony a big bad villain, they always use the same couple of reasons. The big two being the whole him trying to kill Bucky and him recruiting Peter, both of which I think to be understandable. With Bucky, OF COURSE he was angry at him. Sure, Bucky was mind controlled. But with all Tony has gone through and all the loses he has had to deal with, seeing his parents murdered in front of his own eyes would obviously be a breaking point. Especially when the murderer is right next to you and someone who you have learned to respect is backing him up without a second thought. Is Bucky at fault? No, but is Tony's reaction warranted and sympathetic? Yes. Then there's Peter. I can 100% understand why people would be angry at Tony for this, but it's important to understand Tony's motives. All he wanted Peter to do was be backup and tie them down. He had no intent on Peter going full force into battle, and he was probably hoping there wouldn't be a battle at all. Then when Peter did actually get hurt during battle, Tony immediately told him to leave. Yes, Tony was making a risky move and probably didn't think into it enough, but his intentions were clean. Plus, there's the fact that Peter was already swinging around fighting crime in a hoodie and some goggles. If anything, Tony was most likely thinking that Peter could grab Steve's shield, stay on the sidelines, and get a new and much needed suit. I can see why people would think negatively towards Tony, but I feel like they need to take a deeper look into his motives and try to understand his character arc.
He's an antagonist, not "evil" villain, but he still wanted to commit murder, you can't justify Tony murdering Bucky now, his parents are still dead, and flat out murdering him wont change anything except change Tony for the worse. Sure Bucky is a murderer, but being a hero is saving people even if it means saving a killer in one day of redeeming him/her and preventing massive damage/genocide.
@@Deagnetic and tchalla also wanted to commit murder. And so did Wanda in age of Ultron, and hulk has killed who knows how many slaves on Goldblum's planet. Tony was wrong to want to kill bucky, but it's nothing new to see characters want avenge their loved ones.
Et Cogito Ergo Sum lol actually? Have you seen Dr. Strange? Either Guardians film? Either Ant Man Film? Civil War? Infinity War? Black Panther etc. basically what I'm saying is that not all of them may have quite standout filming, but there are definitely a few films that have some seriously impressive looks to them, and I know I'm missing a few here
I think that in Iron Man 3 Black actually showed that Tony is not a sort of invincible superhero., but an ordinary man..genius but just a man.. He was the only Avenger who was affected by alien invasion, which is weird to me, because it was the first time for everybody to witness that and yet, they all took it like it was nothing... So you have to give Shane Black some credit.
He was more traumatized by the thought of dying. If you take into account the others. They've felt the feeling they were going to die numerous times. Hawk and Widow are assassins they fight and deal with death regularly. Cap fought in WW2 he's also used to death and the thought of possibly dying. Hulk well he doesn't actually think like a human unlike Banner. So really Tony being the only one with PTSD is understandable. He's not used to fighting big wars. He's not used to being forced to realize that he might just die. And being in that worm hole forced him big time to realize that he might just be stuck there. That was the only time he really felt helpless in the span of Iron man 1-2 and the first Avengers. He couldn't build something to get him out of it if like Iron man 1 and 2.
@@sirmoriarty8230 Actually Tony was facing death in Iron Man 2 and because of that he almost became a self destructive, but he didn't have nightmares and panic attacks. The thing that pushed him off the limits is that aliens attack and what he saw in that portal - an alien space station. Clint and Natasha are assassins but never ever had that kind experience before, especially Clint who was also mind controlled and because of that has killed his own crew. Steve was a soldier, but than woke up after being 70 years on ice. 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years internet, .. 70 years not even color tv... World has changed so much since 1943/4 when he's crushed in the sea. That thing alone would be enough to give him PTSD. My point is.. each one of them has a legit reason to have PTSD, but we saw that only in Tony's case.
Vesna Lukic Ok you’re right But with Tony he was up against humans and tech he knew and understood. He knew he could build himself out of the situations in 1 and 2. But I see your point and you’re right.
There are a few things I wanna say, but imma just stick to this one point. The laugh in AoU you bring up is more of a laugh of disbelief and frustration, not some laugh of detachment by some crazy maniac. It's not a flippant chuckle, he knows and realizes the dangers he's created, but he has to, *HAS to* stay strong and keep up appearances. He can't cry of scream in front of the AVENGERS. If the dude who made the robot is the first to bail out, then all Hell'd break loose. I personally think the cynical laugh of desperation is in-line with his character development. Nearly all his plans fail, and all he can do is laugh at the absurdity of it all. That or cry, and we all know Tony Stark never cries.
Tony's response reminds me of something a youtuber called DeceasedCrab once said in one of his video game playthroughs(after frustratingly trying to accomplish something): It's either laugh or cry, and I'm picking laugh.
Yeah and a lot of people who don't know how to handle a situation laugh as a coping mechanism. And this dude has got way more than just PTSD on his back.
He's the kinda person who breaks down all the god damn time alone but most of the time he keeps his mind and body occupied from emotions by constantly working And that is why he's such a relatable character lmao
He was also an egomaniac narcissist, so being teamed up with other heroes he was stand offish. In his solo movies no one is competing or telling tony what to do. So I think it does mesh well with his character. Also I think the laughing at the creation of Ultron was a copeing mechanism to deal with his failure.
Tony was a douchebag to Cap in Avengers 1 because he was jealous. His father always talked about how incredible Steve was and how great of a man and so on when Tony was a kid. That hurt Tony, because his father never showed him love and appreciation but kept praising Steve. For a kid this is hard, not getting attention and appreciation from a parent so I don't think it was easy for Tony and wouldn't consider his behavior unjustified in Avengers 1.
The Russo brothers pointed out that in Infinity War, in the begining, Tony had a dream about having a child, and in the end, he loses one. Let's be real. The Russo brothers are the best directors in the MCU.
@@gideonthangcin8179 He did a great job. But The Russo brothers made 3 successful marvel films and they are all in my top 5 so, yeah. Waititi made the best Thor film, but I get your point.
I hope they keep RDJ in the Marvel Universe, by having him download his consciousness as the next J.A.R.V.I.S. AI Even better if this AI is not with War Machine, but rather Spider-Man and the Avengers HQ's.
One of my favourite moments in all of the MCU so far is the look Tony gives Cap after he's seen the footage of the murder of his parents. It's like he's begging Cap for an answer, for a way out of this trap Zemo has led them into.
I actually like that line. I like the fact that it just slipped out and they tease him for it. But, as you say, there are many other Whedonisms that annoy me. The "I have a plan: attack" line is just awful.
Didn’t mind the language one. The one I really didn’t like was the Thor “He’s adopted” line. It’s going completely against his character to get a quick laugh. A central theme in all the Thor movies is Thor wishing he could fix his relationship with Loki. That line is not worth the cheap laugh.
That scene where Tony and Steve are talking about the accords and eventually argue about it is absolutely brilliant and such an overlooked moment for both Steve and Tony’s character development. Incoming text wall btw but I don’t care I wanna talk about this. First of all, we get to see them talk as friends, which honestly we haven’t gotten to see as much of as we should have. Most of the time we see them argue. We understood that they cared about each other but didn’t get to really see that as much. In that scene they talk as buddies and it’s just really nice to see. Talking about what they’ve been up to, the status of their relationships, joking with each other, etc. And this also makes the result of the movie even sadder. Secondly, their conversation in this one scene COMPLETELY FUCKING FIXED ALL THE CONTRADICTIONS WITH TONYS CHARACTER FROM IRON MAN 3!! Before this it was very confusing with how he destroyed all his suits in 3 but then he’s back as if nothing happened in AoU. It felt like he just changed his mind for no reason and there was no consequence for it, as he states that he’s still with pepper during that movie as well. And then Civil War and this scene happens and it explains all of it in an organic and earned way that doesn’t retcon anything and that both furthers his and Peppers characters as well as fixes all those problems. ITS SUCH GOOD WRITING! And thirdly, it also juggles the direct plot of that movie along with everything else I’ve stated. The Russo’s just really love these characters and understand them and it really showed in Civil War. Some were worried Infinity War would be bad because of all the characters and how they’d be developed. But after seeing what the Russo’s did in Civil War overall and specifically this scene, which involved the debatable main character of the franchise which they hadn’t worked with before, Tony Stark, and that they handled him so well, I never had a shadow of a doubt that IW would be good after hearing that they were directing it. The Russo’s were the best fucking thing to happen to this franchise and I can’t wait for Avengers 4. Sorry for the text wall lol
100% agreed that conversation scene is one the best directed scenes in the entire MCU I was gripped in that scene just as much if not more than the action scenes and Civil War has some fantastic and intense action scenes.
Tony never said he stop building in Iron Man 3, there is even a line there where he is encouraged to build things to help with his anxiety attacks. Iron Man 3 connected to Ultron well, he just destroyed his old suit so he can start making new ones
Think of it this way, if we hadn't seen Stark at his most arrogant, his most flippant and height of douchebaggery, watching his come down in Civil War wouldn't have had the same impact. I think when you take all the movies into account as a progression, Starks character arc works out perfectly. Same with Cap. It's also interesting to note how they switch places in terms of what they believe. Originally, Steve was the guy who followed orders, who believed in government and was a true blue patriot, whilst Tony was the polar opposite of that. Yet by the time Civil War happens, they've switched places entirely.
Sorry but I can't see a single point here. The reason why Tony is hostile to Steve is because he's salty his dad talked about him so much. He views him as part of the reason his dad wasn't around so much. Tony gives Thor grief in the Forest because he had just curbed him on the Jet. And only starts a real fight after Thor cheapshots him. The Hulkbuster gets utterly destroyed in a very quick manner by the Hulk. Hence the replacement parts. Veronica is a collaboration between Stark and Banner. Of course it's going to do well. Also the armour *is* totally wrecked. Hence why Stark doesn't use it the rest of the movie. Stark takes out Ultron easily because it makes sense. Tony is using a top of the line suit. Ultron is using a body made of scrap and old Chitauri tech put together in a matter of hours. Hell if you dig into some of the supplementary material. The power source Ultron has to scrape together for his main body is estimated to be only 15-20% as powerful as a arc reactor. Tony laughing at the others is a coping mechanism. He knows he fucked up. But he stands tall and reiterates that they need this. (which he turns out to be correct about). Tony is stubborn. This is consistent with his character.
Them bitching about Steve struggling with Ultron while Tony did not was ridiculous. Iron Man is way stronger than a super soldier so of course he isn’t gonna struggle like Steve.
Thank you. There are a few decent points in this video, but it really isn't a video essay as much as a few scattered observations without a real thesis.
Ok I totally 100% agreed with this video but now I totally and 100% agree with your reply. Which only proves what I’ve said for all my years, well it’s more of a quote but I can’t remember which philosopher said this but it’s so true “anything that can be proven can equally be disproven.” -Plato I think. I need to look that up considering I use it all the time. But good points.
Iron Man 1:”I had my eyes open. I saw young Americans get killed by the very weapons I built to protect them. Which is why as of now I am closing the Stark Industry weapon manufacturing system. Iron Man 2:(I honestly don’t remember) Avengers 1:He sacrifices himself and nearly died to save the world. Iron Man 3: He has Ptsd and is constantly upgrading to save people. Age of ultron: He builds Ultron to stop any alien threat due to his ptsd. What the Russos did only made sense to do for his character and they didn’t really fix him to be honest.
Yeah, I agree. This is most logical path for his character. Also, up to a certain point, Iron Man was most powerful character on Earth. This until he meets Cap, Banner, Thor, etc. Its almost as if he feels threatened because there are new individuals who can kill him. His adaptability what narrowly keeps him on edge.
Iron Man 2: He pushes himself to extremes realizing he will die before understanding the real relationship he had with his father and ultimately stopping what he could have been (Vanko).
See, to me, Tony is slowly having a nervous breakdown. You can see him get mean in the Avengers, get jittery in Iron Man 3, lose faith in Ultron, and then feel guilty in Civil War, Spider-Man, and Infinity War. He brings a lot of troubles on himself and then makes things worse when he tries to fix them. For me, the entire MCU ip through Tony's obvious death in Avengers 4, is one big Iron Man movie.
Tbh I dont think Tony will die. He just built a relationship with Peter and in Avengers 3 he said something about having a dream about him and pepper with a baby. I think Cap's death is way more likely.
In avengers, Tony "angered" banner to proof to the team that he's not an uncontrollable freąk. He learned about banner's work, and recognized him as a smart and missunderstood person. And he also saw a bit of himself in banner, who wants to redeem himself and show to the world that he is more than a green monster. He himself is trying to change his past. So when tony realized how banner must feel, he joked around him, tried to open up to him. That's why he "loves how he turns into a green rage monster" and that's why he poked him with the tazer.
I'm unclear on that, did Cap know? Cap only knew that Hydra had them killed cos of Winter Soldier, but did he ever know it was Bucky that killed them? I always thought he was telling the truth in that scene, and Stark felt betrayed cos Cap never told him they were murdered by Hydra, he always believed it was an accident.
Rmb in winter soldier when Cap and black widow go to a area where a computer is talking to them about Hydra infiltrating Shield. There is a scene that shows Howard stark deceased very clearly to show hydra killed him. As Cap said in civil war he knew his father was murdered but he did not know it was bucky who did it.
Bucky told him about it after they "captured" him in Civil War and had his arm in a press. He knew it was Bucky but not long enough to tell Tony as they were in the middle of their little disagreement. Tony really didn't want to listen to Cap, just wanted him to return asap. And Cap just wanted to finish the mission to stop the dude from waking up the other super dudes. Tony did not know this and thus assumed Cap knew it was Bucky all along, which caused him to snap.
@BillBillinger are we sure Cap didn’t already know? At the end of Winter Soldier Black Widow gives him Bucky’s Hydra file (she also says “you might not want to pull on that string” which to me suggests that something in the file could dramatically affect Cap’s opinion of Bucky) Could it be possible that the file contains his missions, including the Stark family assassination? I always saw the early Stark assassination scene in Civil War as a method to 1) show the serum origins of the “other winter soldiers” and 2) as an audience reveal (not a Cap reveal) that Bucky was the assassin. To me, the vault video reveal of the death of his parents to Stark carries the weight because it becomes apparent to Stark 1) that Cap knew for a significant period of time (longer than the Civil War plot-disagreement), 2) didn’t tell Tony, and 3) was still making efforts to protect Bucky (which understandably would be nonsensical to someone who just saw his parents brutally murdered by him). IMO like the op, that’s what makes the scene (s/o to RDJ’S performance) so great.
The bit in Ultron where Tony is laughing is him coping with what he's done. That was a hysterical laugh not haha this is hilarious. He's having a moment of a mental breakdown
iron man 3 changed my life... im a mechanic btw.. and that scene that the kid says.... your a mechanic right.... tony says yeah... the kid says well build something ... it literally changed the way i think about problems
In regards to Tony bringing a 15 year old kid into a fight he had nothing to do with, here's my interpretation. Tony had known about Peter Parker for a while at this point, maybe since even before Ultron, he had seen the sort of things he could do and was impressed. He wanted to test him, provide him with a real challenge, but he didn't want to put the kids life in real danger. He would never have called upon him to fight agains Ultron or the Mandarin, but when Cap and company go rogue, it gave him the perfect opportunity to see what the kid can really do. He knows that none of them want intentionally try to do Peter any real harm so he chose this moment to meet him.
Totally agree. To elaborate on the others meeting him: it's a great way for the others to assess his character, powers and fighting style. Because they've fought against him they're more familiar with his moves. That may not have been intentional on Tony's part, or by anyone for that matter, but it can really pay off for the team.
@@kevinthunder3375 Except that the entirety of Captain America: The First Avenger is Cap doing things based on emotions, not thinking ahead and having everything work out in his favor and everyone loving him and respecting him because of it.
In First Avenger he did things for the sake of duty and trust, because he was after all a soldier first following orders but grows into the hero. Then in Winter Soldier that trust is betrayed and he has to try new methods.
I came into this video like "god damn youtube always recommending some bullshit, what is it this time...omg it's half an hour long, ok I'll watch 2 minutes" After watching the full 26 and a half minutes I thank you for this video! This made me realise the real importance of the character in this universe. I always knew that Tony had the whole mcu "written around him" but this video made me think about him as a human being having to deal with all these issues. And ofc about how all this is depicted on the screen. Thank you again for writing and positing this essay!
While I agree about Whedon sometime sacrificing constant characterization for a quick quip, Tony being so antagonistic in The Avengers towards Steve makes perfect sense to me. It's in the first line - Howard never shut up about Steve and his virtues. Which makes sense for Howard Stark, but pair this with Tony feeling like a constant disappointment, there were years during which resentment towards Steve could built before he even left the ice.
I'm sorry man, but a lot of this is video Essay is completely ignoring context of the movies in favour for shilling out scenes just because of a director. These characters have an internal logic, that's carried throughout the movies, and to discredit the writing left from one director to another simply by saying "He was charaterized by Arrogance" when that's litterally one of Stark's main characteristics in the first place, you're losing that argument. Bringing up the Ultron scene. That's a perfectly human response. Gallow's humor, or even a completely absurd response as to laugh about having made a plague on the world falls in line with someone who knows exactly how hard he fucked up. Hell, I even cracked up at how bad I failed my graduation tests back on my third semester.
Although Tony's laugh is perfectly fine in context like you said, he immediately doubles down and claims he did nothing wrong, he is acting really douchy there tbh. This is especially a problem considering Ultron happens right after his humbling experience in Iron Man 3.
@@maxcoseti Interesting point! Thought you might as easily say that he doubled down on his intention, not the outcome. Tony does a lot of shit that could either go really wrong or really well, and this isn't the first time he's done so.
@@Lolsocialism I totally agree that's who he is, but what I'm saying is that even when things go awfully wrong he doesn't appear to be willing to admit it. Also my original comment wasn't displaying a 2nd paragraph in which I said this is especially a problem considering Ultron happens right after his humbling experience in Iron Man 3.
@@maxcoseti I'm kind of at fault in the same way. Which I think is why I reason with Tony so well. I totally agree with you in that how he reacts is qutie contrary to what happened in IM3, but I think that more pertains to his character traits. (Also you didn't omit it, I just didn't see it, sorry!). Tony constantly regresses, it's something you see him do a lot, he learns something, incorporates it, but incorrectly. IE: and SPOILERS: Tony is humbled after realizing that a piece of technology can't be the hero, he makes Ultron. Tony learns that telling a kid from Brooklyn won't back down, he tries to make him back down on a spaceship. Tony learns that Pepper hates him for making Iron man who he is, he keeps the chest cavity for nanomachines to make the bleeding edge armor. I think it's less that Tony isn't humbled, but that he's bad at learning from his mistakes. Hell. We can obviously see that he feels bad about attacking Steve and bucky, but he doesn't really have the guts to own up to his mistake of blind rage. I at least think there's an internal logic to him, is that makes sense? If I'm talking nonsense please let me know.
And my friends wonder why i'm on team iron man. Cap would do anything for Bucky, even if it means tearing the team apart. I mean Bucky is awesome and all, but there are other solutions. In the scene when Tony finds out Bucky killed his parents, there is no emotion at all on Cap's face, not even a bit of sympathy or anything, while Bucky looks like he's being teared apart.
No empathy or sympathy did we watch the same movie and of course he would fight for Bucky he was brainwashed he was trying to stop Tony from doing something he'd ultimately would regret
Cap would never tear apart the team like that. Cap literally figures out 30 minutes into the film that Bucky didn't do it and who was going to be killed on site. Cap was merely protecting a friend who was framed, while Zemo was on the verge of resurrecting a squad of killer super soldiers.
Elisha Wilson I think the point is that while they are watching the video of his parents(one of which is Steve’s past friend) being murdered Steve really has no emotions on his face. It’s like he is waiting for Tony’s reaction which is kind of crappy. Steve should be flinching or something and when he admits to of knowing there is a bit of remorse or imploring(which could be looked at as Steve asking Tony not to be angry which this isn’t about Steve or Bucky this is about Tonys grief and Steve should of seemed more understanding.) and that’s it. Of course Steve shows anger and defiance throughout while wanting to protect Bucky but is there any remorse for Tony’s grief? That’s what the OP is talking about. I do think Steve was right to protect Bucky and I(along with the writers) believe if Tony had known before he wouldn’t of reacted like he did in Siberia.
deucezulu22 He is half the reason the team is torn apart Tony is the other half. If you try and talk about how Steve was telling Tony about the mission it can completely be looked at as Steve giving a bs reason for the sh!t he pulled. Rhodey and Nat were standing there when Steve tried; why didn’t they listen? Don’t say Natasha the only reason she let them go was because she knew Steve wasn’t going to stop, right or wrong, she wanted to avoid more people getting hurt because of Steve’s stubbornness.
What's interesting about Civil War is that by that point Cap and Tony switched positions. In Captain America 1 Cap would probably have signed it and Tony would not (his f-u to Congress in Iron Man 2 a case in point)
Beastinvader I love Civil War with a passion. ONLY Infinity War topped it...I still despise Tony’s character in it. It’s laughably bad arguments supported by someone who compromises his core principle and gives into to pure feelings over reality and reason. Hence I greatly enjoyed watching the best avenger trounce him morally and physically. And no, Cap wouldn’t have sided with the Govt at any point...Tony would have backed him up with real character consistency though
@오야 Exactly. And becoming an outlaw in Civil War was the natural progression. Actually, in IW he became apathetic: he didn't even care about being arrested anymore.
Chimar Varmidium I think that Mike K was talking about what happened in Civil War when Cap destroyed his arc reactor on a chest , not the fight with Thanos
I honestly really felt for Tony in the final conflict of CivilWar. He just found out his parents death was actually a murder and that the murderer was within striking distance. Anybody could be understood for lashing out like that. Also his noteable reluctance to actually battle Cap since he was his friend but the betrayal he felt when Cap stood in his way. In Infinity War I loved that Tony went all in against Thanos and despite not having super powers managed to do what no one else had done so far in the film, make Thanos bleed. Thanos seemed to respect that Tony didnt even try to run but continued fighting with everything he had knowing his odds of winning were 1 in 14,000,605 and that any bit he let up would move him farther from that one chance. Watching Peter "dust" was Stark seeing his hope for a better future and all of his work he had put into it fail and literally turn to dust. As said in Ultron in his encounter with Fury, TS "Watching my friends die, you would think that would be as bad as it gets. Nope, that wasn't the wprst part" NF-" The worst part...is that you didn't" And in IW his nightmare came true.
The greatness of the MCU (which ironically the DCEU fails at) is that even the worst MCU movies are still important to continuing the CU's storyline. While not always the movie we want, they are never so bad that it makes what happens afterwards unbelievable, or even unwanted. There's always something you can take away from every MCU movie, and instead of running away from it (like the DCEU did), they instead embrace it. Take for example, Thor:TDW and Thor: Ragnarok. Loki took over Asgard. Now Taika could have just retconned the while thing, but instead of doing that he *ran with the idea.* He turned it into a joke that had real consequences to it with Odin's death.
@Kay Unfortunately you're one of the only people that thinks that. I liked Shakespeare Thor, I liked his friends, I liked Asgard's crystal spire design. It makes it clear that time on Earth is humanizing him, that he's not able to just summon lightning and appear invincible anymore. I wish they made it more clear that he found the same camaraderie in the Avengers as in his Asgardian friend. So many people are happy he went from "somber to badass" when it was more important that he went from deity to hero.
Ragnarok was a glorious 70/80s space-opera. Previously Thor was far too serious and they started writing, him as was mentioned here, down-right Shakespearean it was not good at all.
Shining Darkness exactly, it was stupid to make Thor talk and act Shakespearean when if you actually look at Norse mythology the best comparison to Thor would be a bro. Thor usually loves to do things like go on adventures to test his strength, get drunk, get into tavern brawls, and feasting. Basically he was created to go hand in hand with the Viking culture that worshipped him. Like Thor getting pissed off at being called a princess and nearly starting a war over it is pretty much what Thor in Norse mythology would do. Whedon made Thor way more Shakespearean than the director of the first movie who is an actual Shakespearean actor and director.
I’m only six minutes in and so far so good except for when you said that iron man is over powered if anything they nerfed tf out of iron man. I mean cmon in the first iron man he took a shot from a tank and fell like 300 ft and his suit was pretty much in perfect condition in the civil war cap was able to break Tony’s jets in his feet and break his helmet off wtf iron man is no where near OP
Also captain was punching Ironman armour with bare hands and damaging it when a tank shot couldn't damage it. Reality is cap would've broke his hand if he punch Ironman
tony stark is a man who has known failure ever since day 1 of the MCU, and though with time he forgot its taste. he never forgot what it felt like, and this was his painful reminder. him having his perfect creation beaten and destroyed and then used to almost kill him was just the same as the feeling of a broken body and the taste of blood in the mouth of a fighter in his eyes. and with that Tony Stark learned to fail yet again, strive yet again, and hurt yet again, but he was also reminded that every time he fails, he always bounces back.
I loved Iron Man 3, mainly because we see Tony actually struggle, and that's really refreshing. I hoped they'd explore it more and we kind of see it in Infinity War but it could've been explored even more
Evan Sampson™ What comments? I didn't look at any and I certainly wasn't trying to impress anybody so if that's what you inferred then you'd be better off keeping your mouth shut.
Rogers is who we aspire to be in a way, Stark is who we usually turn out to be like in retrospect. Both fall under certain extremes, with Rogers being the ultimate relic of a bygone era, carrying with him the morals & nostalgia of his blissful "youth". Stark on the other hand is someone more relatable due to his capacity for error, whether it comes from general hubris or situations he created, and his desire to make amends & prepare for an unforeseeable future is something we commonly resort to, either out of fear or anticipation. It's alright to respect Rogers so long as you can understand where Stark is coming from.
I liked this video but I disagree about your suggestion that pepper should have died. She did not need to be "Fridged" as it were. The trope of dead family member or more specifically, a dead love interest is done and outdated. The missed opportunity was sidelining pepper into a typical girlfriend role when they could have subverted that stereotype.
Sam sterling-court outdated? Something tells me. Youve barely experienced seeing it over and over. I think youve just been told its been done, over and over. And also, "missed opportunity" to turn pepper into something else? Shes not a hero. And yet we like her anyway. Your "missed opportunity" sounds like turning pepper into something else. And has nothing to do with opportunity. Where have you seen that work???! Turning an existing character into something else which means, its something out of her character. Pepper is actually boring to you isnt she? U dont like her success.
I mean they did subvert the danzel in distress thing at the end of IM3 with her being the one to kill the villain at least. Even though I would have preferred he died when Tony blew up his armor on him.
Sam sterling-court yes, I wish that Iron Man 3 ended with Pepper realizing how important being a hero was to Tony and wanting to join him, then Tony could build her a suit of armor that helps her utilize Extremis then have Tony jokingly call her Rescue since she comes to his rescue quite often in the story which then brings in Rescue to the story. I mean they already made Rhodes get paralyzed when it was Tony in the comics who got paralyzed, so why not have Pepper keep the Extremis powers when it was Tony who got it in the comics? Also once again it would be a way to bring in Rescue which is what so many comic fans thought was going to happen when they saw her in the Iron Man suit in the trailers.
Exactly. Jon Favreau and Joss Whedon had the perfect adaptation of Iron Man, he wasn't overpowered at all. If anything, Russos weakened Iron Man A LOT to make Captain America look cooler.
Yeah at the point when he is talking about the civil war and at the end about how “graciously” Steve leaves the shield it’s kind of disgusting. Tony just found out what Steve has kept and ultimately the shield is a symbolism to who Steve or Cap is. He is supposed to be full of honesty the shield was made by Howard who utterly believed in Steve(or should I say cap) so of course Tony leaves that jab because it’s the truth. In that moment Steve didn’t deserve the shield and Steve knew it.
@@MissFueledByCoffee I think Steve just leaves the shield because he doesn’t care about being captain America anymore, it’s him telling Tony that he just doesn’t care anymore, that he can win, that he can be right and that’s he’s fine being the villain, fine going on the run.
I really wish that Disney had let Shane Black have Maya Hansen be the REAL villain behind The Mandarin, as it was in the original script. She had a better established backstory and more interaction with Tony, she wasn't just another mirror image of arrogant businessman, Stark (Obediah, Justin Hammer) and seeing an ex fling of Tony's come back to teach him for the womanising we saw in the first movie, could've been a nice lesson for him being a "douche"! I thought the fact Maya managed to infiltrate the core group- just to see how her plan affects Stark and Pepper in person, was interesting psychologically too and might've had a larger impact if it wasn't a plan perpetrated by a character who vanishes for huge swathes of the movie, like Killian does. It would've been a bigger surprise if she'd turned round and shot Killian, in the scene where he killed her, as she seemed a sympathetic character up until then. I think it's obvious to see the flaws this mandated, last minute change, had on the script for Iron Man 3. Loved your video, by the way!
I think you're missing the point of some of the characterizations in those earlier movies. I don't think they fixed him so much as we're seeing stuff that was set up previously pay off. I think it's okay to like that pay off more than the set up; that's normal. However, the earlier stuff you criticize should be recognized as important, even if it wasn't as satisfying at the time. His rudeness in Avengers was a big part of his character that continues forward. Most of it's directed at Steve, and it establishes that he doesn't like Steve. This never changes much, and it's an important part of their character dynamic. Sure, he may grow to respect him, tolerate him, and for a brief few moments in Age of Ultron, things seem fairly cordial (though that was likely with the help of some alcohol). It sets up this extra layer of tension, which is much more personal, and it causes the conflicts over the Sakovia Accords to feel more personal, too. The other rudeness is directed at SHIELD and Thor, both of which have given him little reason to like. I also think there's a few scenes where the mind stone is having an effect, especially in the scene where the two are most aggressive with each other. In that same scene, other characters were far more on edge than normal, including Captain America, Nick Fury, and Black Widow (who is usually totally unflappable). In Age of Ultron, the entire plot is him eating humble pie, and sets up for the way he takes responsibility later. The major issue is due to a mistake he made. Ultron's existence is his comeuppance, where his big effort to improve the situation makes everything horribly worse. I also don't see that scene you point to as him being a douchebag. It's him reacting to that comeuppance you said he never had by laughing in a bit of gallows humor even as he realizes how massive of a mistake he's made. I don't think he needs to lose a battle for him to not be totally overpowered, as the film's whole plot is about his mistake. He didn't make such a huge shift just because of meeting one mom. Those things were already on his mind when he was funding a bunch of grants for the students in MIT. Iron Man 3 has its issues, but I think its place in the arc is also important. Tony's main opponent in this film isn't really Killian. It's his own demons. We see the direct effects of the PTSD, and it ranges from crippling to mostly under control. We don't see the direct impact in later films (largely because they're not Iron Man films, so the focus isn't strictly on him), but the effects this has on his decisions persist. Of all the Avengers, he's the one that responds in the most human way. When terrible things happen, he doesn't just put on the sad face for the requisite period of time, and then shrug it off two scenes later. Evereyone else tends to do this; Scarlet Witch comes close in Civil War, but as soon as Clint shows up, that horror from the explosion is totally forgotten, and she's off to help Cap. His entire arc in both Ultron and Civil War are based on his response to the bad things that have come as a result of their activities, and I think his PTSD informs that, even if we're not seeing the symptoms as directly in the films. His relationship with Pepper is another thing that serves as an antagonist in Iron Man 3 that continue to influence events (even if her speaking parts are short). That's partly why it doesn't matter too much (to Tony's arc) who he's fighting in Iron Man 3, even if the movie suffers for the poor physical antagonist. I don't think the great characterization you point out in the later films would play as well without the background from the movies you're criticizing. Tony's more fatherly approach to Peter is a stark contrast with the young mechanic in Iron Man 3. His relative civility in Ultron is a contrast to his total arrogance in Avengers. The personal level conflict that have been woven through every film they've shared makes the conflict between Iron Man and Captain America makes Civil war far more poignant, even on Cap's side (has Cap even come close to his "Put on the suit" threat that he leveled at Tony?). On the other hand, I don't understand why people think Cap is so great. One of his first lines in The First Avenger is "I can do this all day" and it's one of his last in Civil War. He hasn't changed. Sure, he's a great soldier, a leader, and overall a good person, but he's always been that; he didn't get there due to the experiences we've seen. He never makes mistakes from the first film he's in to the last. Sure, he loses at times, but actually making the wrong decision due to incomplete information or just screwing up? Nah, Cap is above that. He puts blind faith in Bucky and happens to be right. He's suspicious of project insight and happens to be right. This just continues on and on, and I wish that they'd have him make one of these big leaps of faith in the wrong direction so that we can see how he handles it and grows. Not just "we tried and came up short" but him actually doing the wrong thing due to incomplete information and someone of importance getting hurt. We actually get to see Tony in this situation, and how he shifts and responds to those mistakes. We see his thought process and growth. Cap is more of a fixed point, which is fine, but leaves him a bit boring to me (which is fine, since he gets other characters to carry his movies 2/3rds of the time). I think Fury and Black Widow both grow more from the events of Winter Soldier, and that Civil War could easily be considered Iron Man 4 (and would have if Cap hadn't been coincidentally right *again*).
I never considered Civil war a captain America Movie, was always a Avengers movie to me. He was probably 5 or 6th of characters I actually cared for in that movie. It's only his movie in title in my opinion.
Delthor I love your assessment on Tony, but I disagree with you on Steve. You’re right, Cap was shown to be the golden boy, always assessing things correctly. He knew to disobey orders during WWII to rescue Bucky, he knew Project Insight was something shady, he knew Ultron was a bad idea, and he knew that the US government going after Bucky was leaving a real threat unopposed. But he definitely messed up big time. He’s a man out of his time, and especially with Peggy dying, Bucky is his one last connection to his former life, and Bucky has always been Steve’s best friend, protecting him from the bullies before he became Captain America. His blind loyalty to Bucky is Cap’s biggest flaw and what gives Zemo his trump card to destroy the Avengers from within. It was clear to Cap that Bucky had killed Tony’s parents, but Cap, not wanting Bucky to get more hatred, fails to be a friend to Tony and does not tell him the truth. When Zemo shows the video and reveals the truth instead of Cap, it causes the climactic battle that divides the Avengers. The last battle of the end of Cap’s trilogy is the first time that Cap is wrong. He has lost the morale high ground. He failed to be a friend, and is why the Avengers were toast. The Avengers easily could have healed if it were not for that final battle. The airport scuffle was nothing, but Iron Man and Cap’s personal battle made things irreparable. It was symbolic that Cap loses his shield after the battle, realizing he doesn’t deserve it. He also (for legal reasons, but it feels like poetic justice for what he did to Tony) loses his freedom and status as Captain America, becoming a fugitive and wanted man.
Finally someone said it! What makes tony stark a good character in the MCU is his humanity. The fact that he isn’t perfect. He makes mistakes, grows from them, faces betrayal, heartbreak, happiness, and guilt, all of which makes him relatable. One-note characters like captain America, and Thor(pre-ragnarok), just don’t have that depth that makes a character worth investing your emotions into.
I don't know why I cried. But I've been so sick people bashing Tony in Civil War, saying he was wrong, when all I saw was a man in pain trying to do the right thing and take responsability for his mistakes. It made me so angry with Cap, bc not matter what he utterly belived he was doing the right thing about the accords, it was never really about that, it was about Bucky and he let himself to be compromised by his feelings more than his morals. For me, it literally broke a fundemental aspect of Cap's core and that (I believe) is why in Infinity Wars, his team is the one that doesn't quite fit EVEN when all of them know eachother in comparation to the other two teams (Iron Man/Spidey/Strange+GOG, and Thor/Rocket/Groot) who don't know anything about eachother and hasn't fully bonded but yet they manage to actually work together and feel right. For me the Russo Brothers were what Marvel needed it the most. Directors who understood they're characters and paint them with subtlety.
Park Jimin is my light very true. Everyone tries to act like Tony was the one at fault for succumbing to his emotions when he finds out Bucky killed his parents. But Cap has been putting his emotions for Bucky I'm the way the ENTIRE movie in civil war.
NEW INFINITY WAR VIDEO ESSAY! You kept telling us that Thor was Waititi'd and not Russo'd... so we responded! Let us know what you think... :) ua-cam.com/video/aVzU0mmtxs0/v-deo.html
Full Fat Videos everyone was Stan Lee’d
Rip my hero :(
I like what you said about Winter Soldier, but I think that movie has waaay too much guns and violence. Say what you will, but it didn't really seem like a superhero movie.
excuse me but iron man is my favorite hero, in infinity war he got his ass beat, even when he knew he was going to lose he kept fighting, and fighting, and fighting untill all his armor was destroyed and he had a sword stuck in him. He never gave up. You are wrong about tony sir.
And in Avengers two the reason he was laughing was because he was stressed and scared so he hid it with laughing. you are salty
Honestly, i loved iron man through it all but in 3 and avengers the whole point was Stark's downfall.
You can't enjoy his way up if you didn't see his downfall
Captain America's good boy persona is really boring.
We know what he will do and we know what he stands for because he is the stereotypical good superhero.
Stark on the other hand goes out of his way to create suits like the hulkbuster to counter other avengers should the need arise, has his own morals and decisions which give his bad situation in the first Avengers movie and Iron Man 1 all the more heavy seeing we all seen him make mistakes and do the wrong things for the right reasons.
Why is nobody speaking about the scene in age of ultron, where nick furry points out starks biggest fear: not dying but watching everybody else die!
Thanos made his biggest fear come true.
Rev i nick furry...
Scarlet Witch?
@@axelpetersson5787 full of fur
Because not that many people like age of ultron
No he didn't. All the people he saw dead in his vision are still alive.
The way Tony initially interacted with the Avengers is exactly how I expected. Loner characters are usually a bit standoff-ish when they're forced to work in a team.
In addition to that, he later revealed he was jealous of Steve because of the way his father kept bragging about him. He believe this is why he was always willing to oppose his authority during Avengers.
Wasn't the entire team a bit loners themselves? They really didn't want to work with each other.
@@catspaw3092 Bit late but.... Tony was the only full-on loner other then Bruce and that was mainly due to the Hulk. Steve and Thor have fought with people before, Steve in the war as a solider and as a well Captain, Thor has been in countless battles due to his age and has several friends he fights with often. Even if he fought alone Thor still had experience in team combat. Clint and Widow are agents of shied and have previous battles under their belt together. Tony has never once fought with a team and even before he became Iron man he still preferred to work solo. I think you're confusing a reluctant team up of random people of people being loners.
@Daniel Ezulike It depends on which Batman you're talking about. There's so many nowadays. Batman is usually like Tony in many ways. He always tends to see the other members as helpers rather then equals. One of the main reasons Batman helped found the JL was as a contingency for if he ever went rouge (evil) or brainwashed. In most of the continuing (more than one movie) JL movies Batman is constantly going off and doing things by himself and then people, usually Super man, would yell at him for it . "We're a team Bruce not a solo act. This isn't Gotham anymore we all need to work together". Basically how it goes.
Tony and Bruce tend to want to do things solo because They think their the only one who can do or at least the best B They don't want to endanger other people or have them get in the way.
@@TheMichaelmyth doesn't Batman also have a plan to defeat every member of JL? Pretty much like Tony's Hulkbuster
Tony didn't just "snap out of" his issues in Iron Man 3. That feeling of vulnerability fed into his desire to build Ultron, his suit of armor around the world. When Ultron went rogue and Tony started laughing it was at the irony that the thing he'd built to protect the world against his fears had become the very thing he feared.
it was indeed an IRONy!
This is also why he constructed the nanotech suit, and will wear its storage unit anywhere, to be ready for anything.
Briel 000 Why can’t I both like and dislike your comment.
im really glad im not the only one defending tony's behavior in age of ultron. its not even just the irony, i feel like his laughing is also the realization that despite his best efforts, hes managed to make the same mistake he made in the first iron man movie. thats a big blow to take, and on top of that everyone in that room is pissed at tony, including himself, so he gets defensive and starts akting like kindof an ass.
Laughter can come as a response to extreme stress, guilt or anxiety. See Walter White in the second to last episode of season 4 of Breaking Bad. I think that's what they were going for, but I don't think they executed it well.
I dunno... Tony saying "I have a plan: attack." is something that fits with his character, as Tony would usually make that kind of joke or comment. Though Whedon ran with that instead of having Tony make an actual plan like he would actually followup with.
Yeah I agree
And it’s so weird because he had come up with a plan at the end of the movie to fight the Levithan, why not there?
I guess because Marvel really wanted Iron Man Vs. Thor.
The reason why Tony acts "bullish" towards Cap is because he was jealous of how his father always talked about him :|
Yeah, Tony has some serious daddy issues.
Which got actual coverage in the Russo Movies... Good thing Tony got Russo'd
+Victor E Bell That's one minor facet of it.
@@TheOriginalEdFry Yeah, but he also pretty much broadcasted it in the Avengers: "That's the guy my Dad never shut up about?" It was pretty obvious in context as well, considering they explored Tony's daddy issues in Iron Man 2, granted how difficult it is to remember Iron Man 2.
Which further proves how much of an asshole he is. Steve Rogers - at least in the comics, don't know if the movies followed that - grew up in an abusive home with an alcoholic father who was laying hands on him and his mother. Stark should shut the hell up.
Tony is intentionally being a douche in Avengers 1 because he doesn't trust anyone he's working with other than Banner due to SHIELD's shady behavior. And he's predisposed to dislike Cap because Cap was the thing his dad talked about forever and there's resentment there that isn't Cap's fault. But it's still there. Avengers 2 he's a douche because he feels like he's the only one who's traumatized by what happened in Avengers 1, but deals with it by convincing himself that he's the only one who understood what happened fully.
Not to mention I think the scene in age of ultron where it truly showed this behaviour and that was my favorite scene of the whole movie.
Yess 👏🏻👏🏻 I was going to the comment
Or the only thing that Whedon can lock onto is that characteristic. He takes what he was given in the phase one movies and rolled with it and he did the same with phase 2, that's why Cap was way better by the 2nd movie. He didn't give him any characterization or really even an arc. The only two characters that grew from their start point were Scarlet Witch and Ultron and Hawkeye a bit. They were both good movies, but they weren't good movies by themselves. If they didn't have the structure of the phase movies to do all the growth for him then they would fall apart.
Thank you
it's literally a character train that goes back to the beginning of his character. Remember.. his superpower is being born rich and powerful. Comic book ironman wouldnt be popular...
Whether you like Iron Man or not, Robet Downey Jr's performance is something to appraise
@Bob Bobbertson You get the point jackass.
@Bob Bobbertson yeah it should've been praise or uphold, my bad haha
Oh no question - just like HUGH JACKMAN = WOLVERINE. RDJ2 = IRON MAN
@Scott Summers you try and act like a billionaire, philanthropist, playboy genius and I'll believe you. Playing a smart person is a struggle for actors let alone convincing people he is a genius level IQ. That's why all the batman actors are not convincing as the worlds greatest detective.
@Scott Summers Rewatch 14:10 & 14:51 and then say that again
I’d love to see your thoughts on Iron Man after End Game
T.L. KING dead
Listen here you litle shit(joke coment)
He doesn’t get around much these days
Iron Man is already awesome, that garbage make him look like an idiot
Dust
uh, excuse me, Thor didn't get Russo'd, he got Waititi'd
Gary yeah if anything they kinda downgraded him (not all the way to Thor 2 levels) because I liked him without an eye and not needing his hammer or any weapon to be the god of thunder. Still loved him in the movie just kind of a nitpick from me
Literally came to see if someone else said it first before I said it myself. Its such a disservice to Waititi to say that the Russo's turned him around.
Waititi fixed Thor but Russo's perfected him
@@ApexCalibre eeeeh. Honestly, no. I loved Infinity War and even Thor in it, but the Russos definitely undermined a lot of Ragnarok's character work, and basically shat all over that movie's theme of Thor's home being his people. Just, timeline wise almost immediately after Ragnarok. It was a bit of a sour note.
He got Waititi'd first, and then Russo'd. So, he's not wrong, just not specific.
Waititi laid down the ground work for making him an interesting character again, and the Russos added depth to that character.
I disliked Thor's constant jokey attitude in Ragnorok, but after watching Infinity War and seeing where it leads his character, I realized it was just how he was dealing with his pain. That's a mark that Waititi missed for me, but the Russos made more apparent. In Ragnorok, it worked more to serve a comedy and to entertain the audience, but the Russos took that, put a spin on it, and made it serve their action thriller.
Gotta say I disagree with you on one thing. I'm very glad they didn't kill off Pepper. The "killing off the girlfriend to give the main character angst" cliche is overdone and tired. We could've done without the fakeout but that's another point.
yeah, a much better death would have been rhodes, that is also a cliche, but less of a lazy cliche, and in htat particular case, earned and reasonable
Iron Man 3 was messed up on many levels. I'm still waiting for Pepper to be on the Avengers. Iron Man can stay in the back and keep inventing stuff and manage from behind.
Yeah remember what happened with Gwen Stacy in Amazing Spider-Man 2. Good call on Marvel's part not to go through with it.
I still have issue with what they did with Rhodes. He gets crippled.....and that's it. There was a lot of stuff they could do with that, but it was just dropped
Remember pepper can heats up, is very strong and very durable.
Tony Stark can give his toys to anyone.
Bad example is War Machine(because the government stole it).
Good movie example Spider-Man.
ua-cam.com/video/LCwM-x-fRbM/v-deo.html
The whole "you killed my parents" thing was actually the best moment of Civil War, DC tried pulling the same thing off but unsuccessfully as a DC fan I always watched the final moments of Civil War just to see what BVS might have been if it was done correctly.
A Freaking Axe If that was the best moment you should know that he says ”he killed my parents”*
Yes, that scene in Civil War is the heart of the film - the rending of the relationship and the team. It is powerful and masterfully executed. Whereas BvS was a bunch of dreck that had to introduce Doomsday so that they could justify putting in Wonder Woman. Its basic premise was good, but wasted. If they really stuck to Batman and Superman it could have been great.
MARTHA!!
WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME??
@@erikcarlsson6052 if you would REALLY know it, you'd know he says "He killed my mom."**
It was well done because they developed it starting with Winter Soldier. Not only did Bucky do it but Cap knew when he was watching the video Zola showed him
Pleas remember that Wanda gave Tony that horrible vision of the Avengers DEATH in Age of Ultron. His actions in that whole movie can be traced back to the single vision where he feels all the fear and guilt that originated with the Battle in New York. Yes, he laughs when he realizes he created Ultron, but only because he feels that he was fufilling his goal of protecting his friends and the rest of the Earth. Recall that he wanted a "suit of armor around the world".
These people always see what they want.They don't want to see that point of creating Ultron wasn't bad or evil.He created Ultron to protect the world.But they always ignore this fact.
@@gamzetiryaki9307 it's not that they don't see that it's the fact that banner warned him that creating Ultron was a bad idea from the getgo he messed with something he didn't understand he had good intentions but it still backfired badly because he didn't fully think enough to consider that it could go wrong messing with artificial intelligence and put the world at risk
@@elishawilson1429 that's not the point, the video argues that in age of Ultron tony was a dick for the sake of being a dick, this is clearly not the case, tony intentions to create Ultron was good, and when shit backfired he did feel bad, but for him even if Ultron was a failure, it was worth trying for a chance that it might work. a lot of people ignore his conversation with fury about his nightmare where the worst thing he can imagine is everyone dying while he survives.those lines prove he is not being an ass for the sake of it, he did what he thought would protect everyone, lets also not forget that the guy literally said tony is overpowered in age of Ultron because hulk buster defeated hulk , completely ignoring hulk was destroying it and tony basically cheap shotted hulk, and tony destroyed Ultron's body while cap struggled. I for one loved this change, cause hulk destroying hulk buster is incredibly clichéd, so why not let the armour do what it is designed to do, and at the same time it made clear that the only reason hulk got ko'ed is because of a cheap shot, the second example doesn't make any sense iron man is basically a human sized tank with weapons enough weapons for an army, and cap is slightly better than the best athletes, no shit iron man can ko Ultron, he built him and has the fire power to go toe to toe with him, hell I was more surprised when tony didn't wreck both cap and bucky in civil war, just fly out of the damn place and carpet bomb the damn place
The point is the obsession. Ultron falls squarely on Tony's shoulders because it was a horrible idea from the start. Banner told him it was a bad idea, but Tony *knew* that no one else would agree to it because he didn't tell anyone beforehand. He knew they'd say no. Ultron was a predictable problem. Tony thought he knew best and it blew up in Sokovia's face. His intentions were pure, of course they were, Tony's a good person, but his arrogance was absolutely devastating. And if he was trying to take JARVIS to the next level that's one thing, but he was experimenting with the Mind Stone, which was catastrophically stupid.
@@3Rayfire Except it wasn't a horrible idea. At this point Tony had already "meddled" with A.I before. J.A.R.V.I.S and F.R.I.D.A.Y were both A.I's with their own personalities and objectives. Tony said that he didn't tell anyone because the Scepter would only be there for three days, he wasn't being a dick because he was arrogant; he saw an opportunity that was only going to be there for a little while because Thor was then going to take the Scepter with him to Asgard. Imagine if you were in Tony's shoes and had the means to achieve true world peace but you only had a window of three days, I imagine you wouldn't waste that time debating away either. Oh, and Banner did end up agreeing with Tony and worked with him to create both Ultron and later Vision. Why? because he realized that Tony's idea had potential. Also, at this point nobody knew that the Scepter was actually the Mind Stone. Thor found that out later in a vision when Vision was being created (God that sounds weird to say). Do you know what else Thor realized back then? Stark was right. He said it himself. The power of the Mind Stone needed to be harnessed and weaponized to prepare for the future and that's why he used his lightning to create Vision.
5:32 The inappropriate chuckle in A:AoU is one of the symptoms of Stark's PTSD. Basically, he gets it once from the captivity and becomes Iron Man. He gets it again from the wormhole nuke and the Battle of New York, which cranks that "I gotta protect everything" up to 11. The conflict with Ultron is a bit of a wake-up call for him, and he starts getting a handle on things again. But he's still trying to be Mr. Fix-it by signing the Accords, then mentoring Parker, and even in A:IW, he's gunning to be the one to take out Grimace as a personal vendetta rather than a save-the-universe thing. It's actually a rather consistent trait post-captivity. it may not always produce the Stark we like to see, but it's a terribly real character arc. IM3 and A:AoU are his second Act, his low point. We're not, I think, SUPPOSED to like him as much. My point is that STARK was/is broken, not the way he was written/presented.
Well said. I think the dude who made this video totally misunderstood Stark's characterization in the two Avengers movies.
I would disagree- I think Civil War and heading into Infinity War is his low point- thats when we see everything stripped away from him (in a similar way to Thor) and he tries to overcome the most strife. Whedon himself has said that his Stark is "on the spectrum" whereas the Russos, for me, go for more "tortured genius". To each their own, and I'm glad one of us could enjoy him in those movies! Thanks for watching
Also isn't he also still at least partially affected or at very least recovering from the Scarlet Witch's mind magic during that scene.
Moemura actually scarlet witch's mind magic only brought up what was already in him. That was his fears from the first avengers hitting him over the head. Just so happens that it is also the issues he was dealing with in ironman 3.
I think that was the idea, but it was not handled well
My life needs to be Russo'd
hahahaah
Yo, there might be some shit thrown your way that will rock your world. You sure you want to do this?
Same duy
giant mood
As a wrestling fan, this makes me feel conflicted
I think you've severely misread Tony Stark's reaction to Ultron's awakening. That laugh isn't the response of a douchebag, it's the response of someone who is terrified of what he's done and has no idea how to deal with it.
A douchebag would try to justify himself, which Tony does also do in Age of Ultron so I wonder why you didn't show that instead of showing the clip of him "eating that humble pie" like you claim he doesn't do in the first two Avengers movies.
Wanda, has messed with his mind as well.
As soon as he gets the chance to, he's obsessively pushing to complete Super-Bot 2.0 (Ultron2 aka The Vision), not even learning from his mistake of Ultron 1.0 in the days prior.
The Russos do a great job with Characters and story, thankfully they have Marvel Execs who come in with other teams to, handle the fights and special effects.
In every film documentary, you hear Fight choreographers talking about fight scenes furthering story and character and they tell their own little story. And where-as in a "martial arts movie" this is front and center,
I don't think the action scenes in the Russo movies can't be understated how well they work with regards to story and character.
The marvel + russo team-up is a well oiled beautiful machine.
Even the round-table, (Infinity war bonus) even James Gunn and Tiaka were just like ball fondling.
You make it gritty Jason Bourne-esque captain america thing work, and then cut it with Guardians and Thor3 whimsy and make it feel true to those characters and styles those other directors set up.
If there was supposed to be more to the laugh and the rest of his behavior than him just being a douche, the scene does an overall poor job of conveying it.
Paul Dixon you're spot on about Scarlet Witch messing with Tony Stark's mind. It's always bothered me how she suddenly turned into a superhero without any reasonable explanation. Didn't she sign up for Hydra to get revenge on Iron Man? Doesn't she have to take some responsibility for helping to creating Ultron? She literally didn't change her mind until she realised that Ultron was going to kill everyone -- when it was kill or be killed. How is she a hero? Her arc was just terrible. And the Russo brothers just swept all that under the carpet.
I complete agree with you
VitalVampyr. That is the feeling I got from Tony when he laughed during that scene.
That was what I got from that laugh too. Tony was laughing at himself. He miscalculated, and his creation became his enemy.
If Pepper died we would not get the great scenes she has in Avengers Endgame.
She has Tony's death the funeral and when he tells her about the time heist she was definitely good in the movie because of the fact that he was leaving behind his daughter and the love of his life
... And those actions scenes with Tony, Peter, Ladyvengers, etc
@@briantaylorcloe7725 I don't know why I ignored those parts the A Force is shit though that's like my only problem with the movie
“You can rest now” wouldn’t have been nearly such a heart-tugging moment if it were anybody else but Pepper.
Say what you like about the actress but that death scene would not have had anywhere near as much punch without Gwyneth Paltrow's Pepper being there.
*you're not the only one cursed with knowledge*
All Seeing Eye of Agimoto that might be the most revealing line of the last 10 years worth of movies. Thanos knows it and Stark always knew it. It will come down to them. With some other sacrifices to save the universe.
*My only curse is YOU*
*_goosebumps_*
I know your soul, it is much like mine cursed with knowledge
Said Tai Lopez
I have the feeling that when Thanos said "All of that for a drop of blood", he was referring not to the fight Iron Man put on, but to the entirety of Tony's life since he and Yinsen decided to build the first suit.
I don't think Thanos meant that when he said it, but that's certainly how Tony would have heard it.
It’s also pretty cool that despite all the other people fighting thanos and all the things they do to hurt him, like throwing a ship at him or pistol whipping, tony is the only one to get a good clean strong shot to make thanos bleed
Loki is alive, he didn't turn into his true form.
...Thor shoves an entire axe through his chest, and would have killed him, had he not had the time stone.
great point. thanos was only talking about the fight on titan, every fucking thing they threw at him and that's all they got out of it, a small drop of blood. but yeah, tony would've been thinking of everything from Ultron, building a army of suits, new York, everything
One critique of this video: I don't think enough credit is given to RDJ himself (who apparently is very prepared and improvisational in the role). It seems to me that he's bringing a lot of the darkness and intensity that you're crediting the Russos with. (Also, while I do agree that there was a lull in Tony's arc around Phase 2, there is still some interesting picking apart of his narcissism that fuels those films and feeds into his Civil War "Russo Renaissance" period).
That's true! Maybe I should have mentioned him in my disclaimer. For the record- the Russos would have nothing without RDJ performing in the role x
I 100% agree. Give that part to someone else and Ironman is a failure. A perfect example of that is Two and a half Men. Same writers, same everything except for one major change. And that tv show wasn’t the same. And it tanked. So you can’t tell me that it’s all about the writing and directing. Some actors can just deliver lines the way they should be. The realized that two weeks into making Back to the Future. RDJ was great in Weird Science, I think I’m the only person I know make that connection, and he’s just one hell of an actor. You can tell he enjoys what he does. Good point my friend.
RDJ is the reason the MCU exists. He is magnificent in that role--and you're right. I think he's bringing a ton of the darkness, conflict, torment and outward egotism that RDJ probably felt as a young actor who got addicted to drugs.
it's come to the point where the two men are intrinsic. RDJ isn't playing iron man. he is iron man.
There is even the fact that the MCU wouldn’t the massive movie success that it is today if it wasn’t for the amazing performance of RDJ. If anyone else was in the role like say Tom Cruise who was strongly considered for the role before RDJ was cast it wouldn’t have been as successful. I do think box office wise they would have made good money, but without the charm of RDJ I don’t think that it wouldn’t have drawn enough people back for more. Also people love a good story about a man rising up after being brought so low which reflected in RDJ’s real life which helped bring about the same perspective on his Tony. Tony both in the movies and the comics is a man who wrestles with his inner demons and usually finds a way to overcome them which is why his story works and RDJ understands that perfectly, it is also why Tony Stark and RDJ feel so much like the same man too.
Not disagreeing with the video, but at the same time I kinda liked Tony in Avengers, and that part where he says "I have a plan. Attack" is pretty badass.
But to each his own
I think Tony's reason for responding to Cap that way is, Tony is used to handle things alone, Cap, as a soldier, is used to work in a team. Cap wants to make a plan, Tony wants to get going and improvise as needed...
Tony probably had a plan, except at that point he is used to work alone, so his plan probably was only for himself. Explaining everything to cap would have slowed them down.
Their*
@@travioli_yeah4270 what?
"I have a plan. Attack" is one of my favorite lines in the whole MCU. That plane scene in general is just gold.
As for the doucheyness of him in Avengers 1, he's intentionally provoking people to size them up. You see him do it to Strange in their first meeting, with that "Balloon animals" comment, so it's not just a Whedon thing - the Russos have him do it, too.
John Huffman Yeah it's more of his Ego feeling threatened a little bit by the "new guy" it shows as well because during the film he works with Strange and gets over it.
It definitely something I see men of power/business people do all the time in informal setting. Still is unlikable as a character trait, but is spot on for his archetype
thing is tony don't play well with others
Also Loki's staff.
@@TheGerkuman Exactly. I don't know why so many people ignore this part of it. The mind stone was messing with all of them, increasing their less desirable qualities, throughout the first two Avengers movies.
God damnit. This just makes me dread watching Avengers 4 because that might be the last ever time we will see Robert Downey Jr. don the Iron Man suit.
It won't be, it is Chris Evan's last mcu film tho. #goodbyecap
There is a strong reason that it might be RDJr.'s last film. The reason is so that Peter Parker can become the next leader and create his own team: The Second Avengers (Ultimate Spider-Man animated series) when Tony Stark retires.
nah, if they do that i think it'd be to rushed, but i definitely think tony has to go soon... unfortunately
Mattron Not immediately, but eventually. Peter will become Tony's successor and Peter also goes on to build his own company called "Parker Industries", doesn't he?
Actually, I suspect Captain Marvel will take the role of the leader of the Avengers in the next phase. Spiderman still needs to mature a bit before becoming a leader, but his happy-go-lucky and fearless character will always be a boon to whomever makes the decisions.
To me it was the same aspect between Ironman and Steve Rogers. Stark was the general and HQ strategist, Cap was the tactician and battlefield commander who was able to adapt to the fluidity and fog of war when plans were thrown out. This is why Stark ceded control over to Cap in the first Avengers movie during the final fight.
I don't see it so much as the Russos "fixing" Iron Man as they continued the natural trajectory of Tony's character. Tony was always arrogant, and after defeating two big time villains and walking away relatively unscathed through it all, of course he's going to be even more arrogant than before. Going into the Avengers, he was tested and shaken by the attack on New York, which is reflected in Iron Man 3 and ultimately paid off in Age of Ultron, when he creates Ultron as a way of coping with his PTSD: he'll never have to be in danger again if the fleet of AI units is protecting the world. Thus, it's only natural for him to be guilty and seeking redemption from Civil War on. He created Ultron and then essentially tore the team apart and now he's going to blame himself for Peter's death even though it wasn't his fault. It's called character growth, and yes, some writers handled it better than others, but they all contributed to this amazing arc that RDJ has performed flawlessly.
Your comment wiped out the entire video's existence. What you say here is more true than the video itself and in less than 26 minutes
AnOldLady agreed
In Avengers Tony acts the way he does because he's been the big dog. He's never met the Hulk. His childhood was in the shadow of the tales of Captain America. He never felt he had his fathers respect and love but he knew Cap did. So of course he goes into Avengers being a prideful dick. Here's something to remember, outside his close friends, he comes off as a prideful dick to everyone else. Just because he stopped selling weapons and took some responsibility didn't do a 180 on his personality. More like 90 degrees. As the film goes on Tony get's more humbled by not being the strongest and having to accept this new status quo.
Iron man 3 - Tony is never cured of his PTSD but he learns to manage it.......until he doesn't in AOU. I can see the issue moreso here then Avengers. Some of this payoff doesn't occur until a later movie.
AOU - Okay he's laughing not because it's funny but he's having a mental breakdown. We learned about this in the first two films. When Tony is in a situation he can't control he resorts to the sarcasm and doing something reckless that he can control. Rhodes pointed this out in the first film. We see it when he goes off to the middle east in the suit. In Iron Man 2, the racing scene and getting drunk and starting a fight with Rhodes. Now as to being overpowered. It established that Tony has gotten very good at making these suits. Additionally Ultron's body is just some metal. He mocks Tony as much. He'll just jump into a another build. He destroys that version with an upgraded Ultron suit. Of course Iron Man can trash Ultrons body no problem. Ultron doesn't care. Now I could see the lack of consequences because starting with building Vision, things a smooth sailing for Stark.
Then comes Civil War to deal with the fallout. The PTSD is still there but Tony has shifted focus from building a bunch of random suits to building the one perfect one.
Now as to the Whedonisms. Take all these characters from their little worlds and force them into one room. Thor doesn't know these people. he was preachy to Jane and co before he got to know them. Same thing happened in AOU. He knew the Avengers and was less formal. Cap is no constantly reminding people he's from the 40's. The one scene you point out is him trying to fit in. For once he's not the odd man out. In a way that reminds us of who Steve was before he joined the war. Beyond that he's like Rhodes minus the friendship with Tony.
In the end it's hard to address these films after the fact. Sitting in a theater, you didn't know Infinity War would happen. For me personally I look at these films as whole and see the wider story.
Nah Tony just sucked after Iron Man 1 until the Russos got a hold of him in Civil War. Iron Man 3 is actually among my least favorite mcu movies comparable to Thor the Dark World
@@gamerpaul89 i disagree with you. but that's just my opinion
25:17 just look at those eyes, superb acting.
indeed!
Robert Downey Jr is such a great actor. Can't help but respect him immensely.
Omg! It's Amazing!!! And at 14:58a And Caps eyes, they look like they'refilled with tears, feeling so sad for Tony and knowing he was caught...those scenes only work because of how great those two portray the characters. I love immediately after, Tony reacts to the betrayal like and actual hit to his physical body, recoiling from Steve. The trying to calm himself and unable to and just going after them. Freaking magic!
18:13 - "Tony goes to a really dark place in Civil War" ... QUEENS
Thanks for the chuckles.
😂
atomicmrpelly Queens is so dark and brutal that is makes Westeros look like a walk in the park. 🙃
Its not that bad, I live there...
Really bad point in Vid. Extends from Civil War Tony being a horrible human being. Lies to a little kid to back him up. Then again, i think this is what happened in the comic too so...generally Tony is a pretty bad person.
I went to see infinity war on opening night alone. Left the wife and kids at home. The collective inhale from grown men when tony got stabbed almost made a vacuum in the theater. I have never been so emotionally attached to anything that I’m not related to.
You can relate these MCU movies to old westerns.. These are the heroes of our generation!
Like the theater just imploded 😂
same with the collective "NOOOOOO" when Spiderman went poof
The Dutchinator LMAO even Josh Brolin was craping his pants when Spidey went, he was scared for his career XD. While i was just crying.
Surpised the wife and kids didn't wanna see it.
Tony Stark: You throw another moon at me and I'm gonna lose it.
I got scared when he said that.
its sooooo milk
To be fair, he only threw PART of a moon at him.
Had Thanos thrown the WHOLE moon, everyone would have died. Except Thanos, cause Space Stone. I doubt even Stark could tank a celestial body of that size, and at this point Strange was out of commission, so he can't just turn it into a bajillion butterflies.
@sergeantassassin3 I think Thanos just threw pieces of the moon, it wasn't precise, more like meteor shower.
Thanos didn't want to kill them until he got the time stone, so he was counting on Tony stopping the bulk of the moon from hitting. Indeed, it was only a diversion to beat the crap out of Dr. Strange and the rest of the group without Tony backing them up.
Trevyn Lane But then Thanos goes on to almost kill Tony anyway? Don’t think so, bud. Thanos was very much out to kill. The only one he knew he wasn’t allowed to kill was Strange. The others were just minor obstacles that could either be exposed of or casually tossed aside. Stark was the exception to the “minor obstacles” thing due to his massive amount of power.
Iron Man didn't need fixing. He needed better friends...
Hmm...
Explain
So true
And that´s the TEA
Tony kinda be hanging out with a bad influence
And THIS is why the MCU is great. They are changing the superhero genre. They are making it viable. We are, in essence, not watching a movie about super-powered beings just to see powers. We are watching a movie about a character that happens to have super powers. There is a difference. I guarantee that Logan and Deadpool wouldn't have been made if the MCU failed.
Expect this to be a standard yearly genre like horror, rom-coms, war dramas, zombie flicks, etc.
Superhero histories are not a genre, but a story structure. Is like cop movies. Besides that, I agree with you.
The MCU is great, I can't wait to re-watch all the movies before the 2nd part of avengers 4 (just to settle my thirst for more avengers movies), however to say that they are changing the superhero genre and making it viable feels like you're forgetting about the dark knight trilogy.
@Bob Bobbertson You just said it yourself, you watched LESS than half the Marvel movies......and you then expect to enjoy Infinity War?! Of course you don't care about anything in the movie. You don't know any of the characters and their motivations so when they finally meet their match and get dusted, it doesn't mean anything. Do you just watch a few episodes of a season and then the season finale?
And saying it is a trend setting genre for film isn't naive at all. It is just as much a genre as a Western is at this point. Look at all the superhero movies that have came out and the countless more coming out as well. M. Night Sham is making his own "superhero" movie in Glass. And the movie Brightburn is a superhero spinoff movie. Lets face it, superheroes are big money these days and the audiences are only getting bigger. Superheroes are the new Western............and they'll probably die like they did too.
Wow, you're one deluded moron.
@Bob Bobbertson although you're more stupid than the original post. Were you dropped on your head as a child?
"Tony goes to a pretty dark place in Civil War." (shows the QUEENS title card) Well. Tell us how you really feel.
Thrilled!
I like your videos, but I'll have to disagree with parts of this one.
In Iron Man, Tony's character arc was fairly straightforward. He was a rich businessman who made his money from the sale of weapons, and others in his company were selling the weapons to terrorists without his knowledge. The media attacked him and claimed he was responsible, but he mostly just denied all of the allegations, because he was naïve and believed his company was innocent. He's also incredibly arrogant (as we see when he doesn't show up to receive an award, choosing instead to go gambling). Throughout the movie, we see him discover the guilt of his company and force them to become more accountable, even fighting his former friend Obadiah Stane. At the end of the movie, Tony Stark is no longer blinded by his ego, but his arrogance remains.
In Iron Man 2, we still see his arrogance and ego, especially at the Stark Expo. This is partly due to his character arc not having completed in Iron Man, but I think it mostly comes down to him "being in a bad place" and trying to deflect from his impending death due to his arc reactor poisoning his blood. The main character development in this movie occurs after his fight with Rhodes, where we can see he realises what an idiot he's been. Once he invents the new element to replace his existing arc reactor and save himself, we see him back to the person he was at the end of the first Iron Man, possibly even more developed.
In The Avengers, we finally see him meet his match. In his own solo outings before this, he's beaten both the Iron Monger and Whiplash, leaving him pretty cocky (which we could also see early in Iron Man 2). Now he comes face to face with people with superpowers, including Captain America, Thor and The Hulk. I feel like his thoughts towards superpowers are expressed well in a conversation he has with Steve, where Tony is quoted as saying "You're a laboratory expirement, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a bottle." It's why we never see the same enmity between him and Bruce or Thor. Bruce was part of the team that gave him powers and was a scientist. Thor had to prove himself worthy to regain his powers. Captain America, however, basically just got them for free after someone else did all of the work. Tony Stark prides himself on his success without having powers, but in this movie he attacks Steve because he hasn't worked to achieve a similar level of power. At the end of the movie, Tony's arc from self-absorbed weapons dealer to selfless hero appears complete to many when he almost sacrifices himself by taking the nuke through the wormhole, but I would argue that although he has become a hero and defends others, the egotistical façade has emerged. As you discussed in your Thor video, flaw and façade often eventually trade places in character's arcs, and I think this is where that finally occurs for Tony.
In Iron Man 3, we see Tony experiencing anxiety attacks and suffering from PTSD after the events of The Avengers. Many attribute this to him seeing the other side of the wormhole and almost dying, but I think it comes down to encountering superpowers. He's always been powerful enough to face everything that's come at him before, but in The Avengers, this was no longer the case, because other people got free 'Superpower' cards that he wasn't dealt. Because of this we see him obsessively developing suit after suit in attempt to remain powerful as others rise. I feel like using Killian and the Extremis Program as the villains of the film works well, as we see him fight against superpowered beings to overcome his fear.
In Avengers: Age of Ultron, Tony's had enough of being a hero. He promised Pepper he would stop, but he has to keep building them to keep everyone safe. When he has access to the mind stone, he creates Ultron so that he can go home and be with Pepper, but after it backfires, he feels responsible for what happens. We also see that, although he doesn't experience anxiety attacks anymore, his PTSD as we saw in Iron Man 3 is ever present. The laugh at creating Ultron was showing his instability as he knows he's finally created something to defeat superpowered beings and it's a monster. He helps face it down, but then goes home, feeling as though he can no longer trust himself.
In Captain America: Civil War, we see him forced to come to terms with what he caused in Age of Ultron. At this point, his trauma from The Avengers is coming forward, with the added pressure of the deaths he caused in Age of Ultran pushing on him even further. At this point, he seems almost paranoid. He attempts to keep the team together, but misunderstands the situation, believing Cap's judgement to be askew and not believing Bucky was brainwashed. He eventually realises otherwise and sets out to help. This is where his character is most clear. He doesn't have anything against heroics, that isn't why he signed the Accords. He signed the Accords because of his concern for collateral damage. When people were killed and Bucky escaped, he sees that is being on Cap. Now, they are headed to an abandoned facility with nobody to get hurt, and he believes Cap's story. This is then ruined by Stark finding out about his parents' murder and losing it. It's a logical way for his character to digress, works with the villains plan and doesn't feel forced, but this is the action that sets back his arc. It's his darkest moment and, although his ideologies are the same as they have been all the way through the movie, this feels like Iron Man 2 Stark. He comes across a problem, drives people away, even getting into a fight with a close friend.
In Spider Man: Homecoming we see his ideology from Civil War. He doesn't have enough time in this movie to have much of an arc, but we see him berate Peter when he attacks the arms dealers on the boat because of the potential collateral damage, but congratulates him for defeating the Vulture in the final fight because he kept anyone from getting hurt.
In Avengers: Infinity War, this is the culmination of his arc. He hears about Thanos, the guy who sent the chitauri in the first movie. This is who caused the experience that gave him PTSD. The reason he's been so obsessed has been partly about dealing with superpowers in general, but the focus has always been Thanos. His whole journey has lead up to this fight. He still hasn't forgiven Steve, and instead opts to set out for Titan alone, although Doctor Strange is there because he has the Time Stone and was kidnapped by Ebony Maw, Spider Man sneaks in against Tony's wishes, and they meet the Guardians of the Galaxy on Titan. He faces him down in the fight he's been preparing for for six years, and he loses terribly, resulting in the deaths of half the universe, including that of Peter Parker.
What you said here is perfect. It's exactly how I see his arc.
Although I disagree on the last bit. He would have called Steve if he weren't interrupted
Took the words out of my mouth! Love this
Really nice analysis!
This comment is underrated, by a large margin
Damn u wrote my English essay
Did anyone ever realize that Iron Man straight up ENDED THE WAR ON TERROR in the MCU.
until the next movie comes out
Overall Tony has one of the best arcs in the MCU.
It took Civil War to really pay it off but yes, I would agree that Tony's development is one of the best parts of the MCU.
2nd best arc, only behind Rogers.
Him and Thor ate interchangeable
Tony, Thor, and Rogers in that order. Daredevil and Luke Cage have also changed a lot since their MTU (Marvel Televised Universe) debuts. Especially Luke. That cliffhanger deserves another season.
Yes, he does have one of the best arc reactors.
That scene when tony gets over powered by thanos and nearly dies for ONE drop of blood, really showed that some times, he CAN'T win.
but as stated in Iron Man two, "If you could make God bleed, people would cease to believe in Him. There will be blood in the water, the sharks will come"
A-DrewG No, that's weak. Because that talks about god status: a fallacy waiting to be shown as such. It breaks down the image but not the literal power. THanos is mighty not because people think he is through lies. He is really actually powerful despite no one knowing who he is- especially after the fall of his people in Titan.
If you want to take down the pope (which is a false image of power) you make him bleed in public. But if you want to take down power such as Thanos, you really need to out power him. There are no smoke and mirrors with Thanos' powers. You can see hope crumble in Tony's eyes when Thanos delivers the 'drop of blood' line. Tony knew he has nothing, did nothing, and everything failed. That realization from Tony himself shows your sentence as being false- and why I love the Thanos character: because he really was a match not just for Tony, but for freaking every superhero out there and he took down the lot of them at once. Now THAT'S how you make a threat!
Thanos is the first villain that made me feel he was an actual threat.
@@shmookins It's not about making the public see it, only themselves. They are the ones that need to know that this strange guy with all of this incredible power ISN'T something on par with a god, therefore they have the confidence to defeat him. Maybe, that didn't manifest by the end of the film, but it will play a factor for some of the heroes later on. "If it bleeds, we can kill it."
@@kingkeefage Can't wait for the sequel! I'm on radio silence. I won't even watch a trailer or look at a poster. :D
@@shmookins I totally understand. The trailer did give away a few things, but it seemed like it was designed to give us as little as they could about it. If you do want to make sure you are completely caught up before next year, they have comics that take place between Infinity War and Avengers 4. They aren't necessary for following the movies, but it would satisfy any desires to see anything without really spoiling the movie itself. Dude, I can't wait either! I hope you enjoy it.
Marvel should keep Russo Brothers for future movies especially big team up one (like Avenger and Civil War) coz they know what they're doing and manage to tell a great story
I'm torn- I kind of want to see them do new things after Avengers 4
@@FullFatVideos btw with the addition of Captain Marvel in the MCU, how do you think the possibility of Civil War ll to happen?
Maybe in the long run? Since Inhuman and Mile Morales is one of the biggest character in that storyline
I think it would be a cool to see a very different version of Civil War 2 in the MCU... Possibly between Captain Marvel and Black Panther? Since Iron Man would obviously be unavailable.
Yep there really good with ensemble cast and giving each one their own screentime. I'm excited for anything the Russos do from now on I heard they're a mystery cop drama which Chadwick Boseman which looks very promising.
To be frank...the Russo Brothers do a great job, but I actually suspect that the MIPs aren't really them, but Markus and McFeely. They wrote the whole Captain America Franchise plus the pilot for Agent Carter...they also polished the script for GotG, and while it is a little bit difficult to tell who did what on Thor The Dark World writing-wise, my impression is that Marvel pulled them in after the first test screenings went so badly and they were responsible for flashing out the Loki-Arc, which is the one thing in this movie which works and rescues it from being utterly unwatchable.
Not to diminish the Russo Brothers, even a great script can be ruined by a terrible director. But we shouldn't forget that the strength in their movies are for a large part the excellent writing, and they aren't the ones responsible for the screen play.
The moment at the start of endgame where, on his return to Earth, the first thing he says is “I lost the kid” was one of the best touches. Really emphasised that relationship.
“To feel that you are right, yet to fail nonetheless?” -Thanos
These lines fit the Entirety of what Tony went through in a nutshell. For 6 years he saw a threat coming. 6 years he tried to prepare. Yet in the end he failed nonetheless.
“Even if we don’t save The Earth we will Avenge it!” -Tony Stark, Avengers
....and now we will see him live up to his claim from the First Avengers movie. Now it’s time for them to live up to their name; The Avengers!!
Perfect
it is a shame they had them all split up though for infinity war because that is one thing that they could not deliver on was when cap said that we will lose together too if they had too. I can't believe after the fallout of civil war they would not take advantage and have them needing to fight along side each other once more against thanos and fail together instead of everyone vanishing in all different areas of the universe. Hopefully they make that happen in the next one as that will be the swan song of the original characters and maybe that is where they all will die to bring back the vanished ones.
Tony has nothing left to lose. We will definitely see another side and part of Tony that we never thought was possible. I'm so ready it's not even funny.
THAT'S THE POINT! lol They will bring everyone back for the final battle. What we will see next will blow our fffffing minds.
Im hype for avengers 4 now!!!
Tony bullied steve on the 1st avengers bcs, as he told in civil war, he hated how his dad always talked about him
True, but his tact was way offff. I think by comparison the way he speaks to Steve about his father in Civil War is closer to what I'd expect Tony to be like i.e. not a complete dick
@@FullFatVideos MCU Tony had a history of being a dick right from the first movie. Did you completely forget about how rude he treated that reporter he later had sex with? Remember his scene in court from IM2? I liked this video, but I disagree with a lot of your arguments. Tony's transformation from arrogantly benevolent to outright selfless protector seemed realistic and earned over all the movies, including both Avengers. It was a gradual process not a light switch moment.
The fuck???!!!!
Full Fat Videos Tony was the completest of dicks in phase 1.
I mean in iron man 2 he does say that his dad never loved or never told him that he liked him, he constantly talked about Cpt. America and not acknowledging his own son.
So yeah, i kinda get why he was being a dick to Steve, jealousy
Anyone who says the MCU is just a series of thoughtless popcorn flicks needs to watch this video. Or just the MCU properly.
Completely agree. The MCU will be remembered
Amen to that. You want junk,watch the Transformers.
@@FullFatVideos agreed
@Mr Mindverse Of course. It's not the masterpiece of cinema that some fanboys would like to say. And there are various things I'm not happy with. I'm just saying they're not all simple minded action flicks.
Mr Mindverse To he honest their only horrible movies are only horrible compared to the rest of the MCU. If they were standing alone by themselves then they would probably only be bad or even just mediocre.
Tony: "Watching all my friends die, you'd think that'd be as bad as it gets. Nope, that wasn't the worst part."
Fury: "The worst part is you didn't"
I disagree with some of your points so you must delete your video now, as there is clearly no other solution for our disagreement and we cannot possibly accept that people just have different opinions
Uh-oh! Looks like it's gonna be Civil War!!
Marc Millar what do you mean?!?
I’m on #TeamMarcMillar
Jose Magallon someone skipped sarcasm class.
@@RyanGosling6 You're reflexes must be fast ey, because nothing probably goes over your head
When I reflect on the movies that have Tony Stark, I get a slow realization that Tony is suffering from multiple kinds of trauma and is just not getting help until CACW, when he is at his lowest. I do think what happen in Spider-Man Homecoming, he finally got professional help and his mentoring Peter got him on a road to recovery. By Infinity War, things are great, him and Pepper are getting married, he's excited for the future, Peter is still alive and thriving. And then Thanos comes in and it all goes to hell. Thanks Thanos. I really hope Nebula tears you apart in the next movie.
Katherine Alvarez Tear him apart like he did to her and Gamora’s sisterhood, and to her physically in Infinity War.
JosepiThe13th imagine if Shuri and Tony got together to help Nebula get a better body, l not one designed as punishment like Thanos did to her for losing against Gamora.
I like this comment.it makes sense. Thanks for the reflection
honestly theyve been taking every chance to give tony more ptsd, like every movie he has to deal with world shattering experiences, deaths, and near misses, and when the end is finally in sight, some guy he barely knows messes it up, and he has to watch as one of the only people he shows genuine care for are clinging to him desperately as they die.
Monz.- yes, collaboration is good.
RDJ has always killed his role as Tony Stark. He was great in Iron Man 3. Lol
I'm probably wrong but in the comics wasn't he an alcoholic?
Iron Man is like Jack Sparrow, assured quality character, even when the film isn't the greatest.
@@hakenbacker Yes.
Iron Man 3 is essentially akin to a Batman Movie that only stars Bruce Wayne for 95% of it - oh wait they made that it was Called Dark Knight Rises and it kinda sucked.
No one's talking about Robert Downey Jr as an actor, and his role as iron man. But the writing behind the character. No one's trying to argue that Robert didn't do a phenomenal job lol.
Tony's easily the best character of the entire MCU and one of the most complex. He gets treated like complete crap but he keeps trying/doing the right thing and his entire goal was to prepare for a threat nobody else was paying attention to or took seriously. Every time someone talked down to him or treated him badly I just wanted to lash out. The guy is trying to gain redemption for things that aren't even his fault, he's constantly blamed for things yet when anyone else does something wrong they get a pass but not him. The guy puts up with a hell of a lot of stuff that I certainly wouldn't. Tony's like an abused kid, he'll take all the abuse in the world, if it means someone will love him. It's tragic.
Is nobody going to point out that Tony wasn't out of line at all in how he acted in Civil War? He wasn't the one out of line.
It was Steve Rogers who constantly needs a war to fight because that's what his existence has come down to. He's the one who basically told 170 countries to go f- themselves. He's the one who brushed off collateral damage as if it doesn't matter or that good guys don't have to answer for that sort of thing. Because they do. All the time. Unavoidable loss of life is one thing, but loss of life out of negligence or abuse of power is a whole other.
Were the Accords right? NO. But Rogers certainly wasn't either.
Hell yes man you took the words right out of my mouth!
Both Steve and Tony have their Pros and Cons. That's how it was designed to be. The audience chooses their side.
Straight up magic in your words.
FUCK YES
Except that the Sokovia Accords are in fact wrong. Just as the Mutant Registration Act that preceded it in the comics was extremely wrong.
The only time that the Avengers acted where the collateral damage was their fault, was actually the one time it was Tony's fault, Ultron. The Battle of Johannesburg, was instigated by Wanda on Ultron's actions. Crossbones blew himself up, and he would've either killed everyone in the market, or killed everyone somewhere else. Wanda tried to save everyone, but she didn't pull the pin. And of course, Loki showing up on Thanos' orders was completely out of left field. And the Avengers were Fury's in case of emergency break glass plan.
The governmental entity with authority, the World Security Council tried to nuke New York.
Steve wasn't just telling 170 countries to go fuck themselves, Steve who had just gone through Hydra completely subverting SHIELD and about to wipe out all opposition to their rule, was completely justified in not trusting governmental authorities with using the Avengers correctly.
This point is brought up in the film when Tony brings up that Banner would agree with him. When the person administering the accords was going to be General Thaddius "Thunderbolt" Ross, the poster child for the government abusing a super powered individual. "As far as I'm concerned, Banner's whole body is US Army property."
In the meantime Steve was pursuing a personal connection instead of worrying about the law. It's also unusual that he should have to explain that the Avengers independence is important to the guy who said, "You can't have my property, but I did you a favor, I have successfully privatized world peace." Note Tony was right about that, as the senator who wanted his armor was HYDRA.
Tony's fatal flaw in the argument over the Sokovia Accords was that he was letting his guilt dictate his judgment instead of thinking rationally. Tony was trying to push the responsibility of their actions on to someone else, namely the government because he couldn't handle the guilt, and he was thinking oversight would ease that burden. He was lying to himself.
Steve's fatal flaw was of course Bucky. His only tangible connection to his old life. Something he would protect to the end. He had already proven himself willing to lay down his life to save Bucky in Winter Soldier.
As far as the collateral damage goes, that happens in war too. Steve is a soldier. If you're going to fight, there's usually going to be damage. If you're worried about collateral damage, then your only option is not to fight. But then the enemies don't actually care about collateral damage. Or you put the Avengers in jail after the fact.
The question is where is the negligence, where is the abuse of power? Steve is the one who said they would focus on evacuating the civilians out of Nova Grad before the final battle with Ultron, "Ultron thinks that we're dangerous. This battle isn't just about winning, it's about if he's right."
i always thought Tony was laughing about Ultron trying to kill them all as him going hysterical that he's "done it again" created another weapon that's going to be used for harm rather than good.... also the hulkbuster armour was designed by both Banner and Tony, both of which had a clear understanding of the Hulk... for the Tony to lose that fight would have made both Banner and Stark feel like they had no clue what they were doing... I do agree that Tony's kind of OP though
I get your point about the hulkbuster, but at the end of the day that scene needed some emotional substance to it. It was just a long-winded and one-sided fight without much drama to it
I agree with the opinion that Tony's bitter laugh was about the furthest thing from being a douche. The Ultron entity they were fighting against had been made up of two main component: the original Ultron system and JARVIS, both of those were creations of Tony himself. Two AIs conceived, coded and developed by Tony. Ultron in the first second of its existence must have been 98% pure Tony, I guess, and Tony is pretty much aware of this fact. Then his friend asks him why this creature wants to wipe out humanity. I think his unhinged laugh was a wonderfully nuanced moment of characterization, in fact.
The Russo brothers have my deepest respect, but I will never be able to understand where this "Whedon-kicking" attitude comes from. Joss has a completely different approach and movie-goers are free to have their preferences, but these directors are working together not against each other, if you notice. The best illustration of that is, ironically, a parallel between the scene when Tony pokes Banner in The Avengers and when Tony involves Peter in the airport fight years later [19:08]. And that's because it shows continuity. Both of these decisions of Tony were based on taking a calculated risk after a thorough research. Tony's quite sure Banner wouldn't turn from just any small provocation, he just needed to see how close he comes to turning, so Tony can assess the danger Banner poses to them all. He'd spent the night reading tons of SHIELD data about the other Avengers, for Pete's sake. Just as he trusted himself to keep Spiderman safe from any major harm in Civil War, based on his internet research about the kid's skills and level of endurance. You just chose to interpret the two instances of the same character trait differently to fit your narrative.
Its like I said in another reply, If the laugh wasn't meant to be a douche response, then it sure wasn't executed very well. It comes of as douchey because of his douchey response after the laugh itself. It was handled very poorly.
Blue for You Like any performing art, it’s in the eye of the beholder. For me, RDJ’s expression leaves no questions in this scene, for others like you it tells something else. It’s a different story for every single person in the audience, and that’s the way it should be, actually. :)
"riiiiiiiiiiiiight" - Dr. Evil
Honestly I am SO TIRED of people constantly calling Tony the villain of Civil War, or even Captain America. These people fail to see the whole point of the movie, which is that neither side is completely right or wrong, they are just extreme point of views with both pros and cons.
Whenever someone tries to call Tony a big bad villain, they always use the same couple of reasons. The big two being the whole him trying to kill Bucky and him recruiting Peter, both of which I think to be understandable.
With Bucky, OF COURSE he was angry at him. Sure, Bucky was mind controlled. But with all Tony has gone through and all the loses he has had to deal with, seeing his parents murdered in front of his own eyes would obviously be a breaking point. Especially when the murderer is right next to you and someone who you have learned to respect is backing him up without a second thought. Is Bucky at fault? No, but is Tony's reaction warranted and sympathetic? Yes.
Then there's Peter. I can 100% understand why people would be angry at Tony for this, but it's important to understand Tony's motives. All he wanted Peter to do was be backup and tie them down. He had no intent on Peter going full force into battle, and he was probably hoping there wouldn't be a battle at all. Then when Peter did actually get hurt during battle, Tony immediately told him to leave. Yes, Tony was making a risky move and probably didn't think into it enough, but his intentions were clean. Plus, there's the fact that Peter was already swinging around fighting crime in a hoodie and some goggles. If anything, Tony was most likely thinking that Peter could grab Steve's shield, stay on the sidelines, and get a new and much needed suit.
I can see why people would think negatively towards Tony, but I feel like they need to take a deeper look into his motives and try to understand his character arc.
People also forget Cap knew Tony's parents were murdered back from winter solider and never told him. Steve lied to protect Bucky all these years.
Kashoot Myself he is the antagonist. Not the villain; I believe people state that he is ‘villain-like’ however. But not evil - he is still a hero.
He's an antagonist, not "evil" villain, but he still wanted to commit murder, you can't justify Tony murdering Bucky now, his parents are still dead, and flat out murdering him wont change anything except change Tony for the worse. Sure Bucky is a murderer, but being a hero is saving people even if it means saving a killer in one day of redeeming him/her and preventing massive damage/genocide.
@@Deagnetic and tchalla also wanted to commit murder. And so did Wanda in age of Ultron, and hulk has killed who knows how many slaves on Goldblum's planet. Tony was wrong to want to kill bucky, but it's nothing new to see characters want avenge their loved ones.
We all know the REAL villain is ZEMO!
It's refreshing to think of the mcu from a storytelling rather than a cinematographic one. Nice video
Thank you for supporting the channel :)
@@FullFatVideos you guys deserve it. I wish I could be this analytical
I love that word. Refreshing. Reminds me of cold drinks.
lol what the cinematography of the mcu is generic as hell
Et Cogito Ergo Sum lol actually? Have you seen Dr. Strange? Either Guardians film? Either Ant Man Film? Civil War? Infinity War? Black Panther etc. basically what I'm saying is that not all of them may have quite standout filming, but there are definitely a few films that have some seriously impressive looks to them, and I know I'm missing a few here
That "The Fallen Avenger" on the thumbnail is even more touching after Endgame.
I honestly thought the video was about endgame before checking the upload date tbh
Cap wasn't born in the 40s... not that is really matters... but
Whoops. Y'all know what I meant hahaha
@@FullFatVideos yeah, I did
He was born in 1918, not the 40s.
+katykat978 *wasn't
Thanks for clarifying! I deleted my comment
I think that in Iron Man 3 Black actually showed that Tony is not a sort of invincible superhero., but an ordinary man..genius but just a man.. He was the only Avenger who was affected by alien invasion, which is weird to me, because it was the first time for everybody to witness that and yet, they all took it like it was nothing... So you have to give Shane Black some credit.
He was more traumatized by the thought of dying. If you take into account the others. They've felt the feeling they were going to die numerous times. Hawk and Widow are assassins they fight and deal with death regularly. Cap fought in WW2 he's also used to death and the thought of possibly dying. Hulk well he doesn't actually think like a human unlike Banner. So really Tony being the only one with PTSD is understandable. He's not used to fighting big wars. He's not used to being forced to realize that he might just die. And being in that worm hole forced him big time to realize that he might just be stuck there. That was the only time he really felt helpless in the span of Iron man 1-2 and the first Avengers. He couldn't build something to get him out of it if like Iron man 1 and 2.
@@sirmoriarty8230 Actually Tony was facing death in Iron Man 2 and because of that he almost became a self destructive, but he didn't have nightmares and panic attacks. The thing that pushed him off the limits is that aliens attack and what he saw in that portal - an alien space station. Clint and Natasha are assassins but never ever had that kind experience before, especially Clint who was also mind controlled and because of that has killed his own crew. Steve was a soldier, but than woke up after being 70 years on ice. 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years internet, .. 70 years not even color tv... World has changed so much since 1943/4 when he's crushed in the sea. That thing alone would be enough to give him PTSD. My point is.. each one of them has a legit reason to have PTSD, but we saw that only in Tony's case.
Vesna Lukic
Ok you’re right
But with Tony he was up against humans and tech he knew and understood. He knew he could build himself out of the situations in 1 and 2. But I see your point and you’re right.
Why should I give Shane Black a credit for what was done already in the first Iron Man (and done better)?
@@antona.1327 Where did you see Tony's PTSD in the first Iron Man? Panic attack, hyperventilation, nightmares? I didn't but maybe I missed something.
There are a few things I wanna say, but imma just stick to this one point.
The laugh in AoU you bring up is more of a laugh of disbelief and frustration, not some laugh of detachment by some crazy maniac. It's not a flippant chuckle, he knows and realizes the dangers he's created, but he has to, *HAS to* stay strong and keep up appearances. He can't cry of scream in front of the AVENGERS. If the dude who made the robot is the first to bail out, then all Hell'd break loose.
I personally think the cynical laugh of desperation is in-line with his character development. Nearly all his plans fail, and all he can do is laugh at the absurdity of it all. That or cry, and we all know Tony Stark never cries.
He dead ass probably cried after Peter died. I love iron man He is my personal fav in the mcu
Tony's response reminds me of something a youtuber called DeceasedCrab once said in one of his video game playthroughs(after frustratingly trying to accomplish something): It's either laugh or cry, and I'm picking laugh.
Yeah and a lot of people who don't know how to handle a situation laugh as a coping mechanism. And this dude has got way more than just PTSD on his back.
He's the kinda person who breaks down all the god damn time alone but most of the time he keeps his mind and body occupied from emotions by constantly working
And that is why he's such a relatable character lmao
thank you
He was also an egomaniac narcissist, so being teamed up with other heroes he was stand offish. In his solo movies no one is competing or telling tony what to do. So I think it does mesh well with his character. Also I think the laughing at the creation of Ultron was a copeing mechanism to deal with his failure.
Tony was a douchebag to Cap in Avengers 1 because he was jealous. His father always talked about how incredible Steve was and how great of a man and so on when Tony was a kid. That hurt Tony, because his father never showed him love and appreciation but kept praising Steve. For a kid this is hard, not getting attention and appreciation from a parent so I don't think it was easy for Tony and wouldn't consider his behavior unjustified in Avengers 1.
Exactly.
and Lokis infinity stone made them all exaggerated
The Russo brothers pointed out that in Infinity War, in the begining, Tony had a dream about having a child, and in the end, he loses one.
Let's be real. The Russo brothers are the best directors in the MCU.
Spiderman isn't a child. He's just spiderman's mentor
@@Riskofrain527 Yeah, but metaphorically, they HAVE a father and son relationship.
Watiti
@@gideonthangcin8179 He did a great job. But The Russo brothers made 3 successful marvel films and they are all in my top 5 so, yeah. Waititi made the best Thor film, but I get your point.
@@Riskofrain527 uh. As a 15 yr old human. He is technically a child.
iron man lost jarvis. jarvis was a big part of what made iron man likeable
The thing that makes iron man more likable is his insecurities and imperfections. It makes him more human
He lost him in Age if Ultron tho, after that his character only got better...
True
bullshit
I hope they keep RDJ in the Marvel Universe, by having him download his consciousness as the next J.A.R.V.I.S. AI
Even better if this AI is not with War Machine, but rather Spider-Man and the Avengers HQ's.
One of my favourite moments in all of the MCU so far is the look Tony gives Cap after he's seen the footage of the murder of his parents. It's like he's begging Cap for an answer, for a way out of this trap Zemo has led them into.
that scene is absolute gold and RDJ's acting just makes it better
That point about Whedonisms was spot on! Cap suddenly telling Tony off for swearing in AoU felt off.
Glad you agree! "language" is a bit painful...
For gosh sake watch your language >:v
I actually like that line. I like the fact that it just slipped out and they tease him for it.
But, as you say, there are many other Whedonisms that annoy me. The "I have a plan: attack" line is just awful.
Yeah the language thing was pretty childish. Not to mention they keep mentioning it beating a dead horse.
Didn’t mind the language one. The one I really didn’t like was the Thor “He’s adopted” line. It’s going completely against his character to get a quick laugh. A central theme in all the Thor movies is Thor wishing he could fix his relationship with Loki. That line is not worth the cheap laugh.
That scene where Tony and Steve are talking about the accords and eventually argue about it is absolutely brilliant and such an overlooked moment for both Steve and Tony’s character development. Incoming text wall btw but I don’t care I wanna talk about this.
First of all, we get to see them talk as friends, which honestly we haven’t gotten to see as much of as we should have. Most of the time we see them argue. We understood that they cared about each other but didn’t get to really see that as much. In that scene they talk as buddies and it’s just really nice to see. Talking about what they’ve been up to, the status of their relationships, joking with each other, etc. And this also makes the result of the movie even sadder.
Secondly, their conversation in this one scene COMPLETELY FUCKING FIXED ALL THE CONTRADICTIONS WITH TONYS CHARACTER FROM IRON MAN 3!! Before this it was very confusing with how he destroyed all his suits in 3 but then he’s back as if nothing happened in AoU. It felt like he just changed his mind for no reason and there was no consequence for it, as he states that he’s still with pepper during that movie as well. And then Civil War and this scene happens and it explains all of it in an organic and earned way that doesn’t retcon anything and that both furthers his and Peppers characters as well as fixes all those problems. ITS SUCH GOOD WRITING!
And thirdly, it also juggles the direct plot of that movie along with everything else I’ve stated. The Russo’s just really love these characters and understand them and it really showed in Civil War. Some were worried Infinity War would be bad because of all the characters and how they’d be developed. But after seeing what the Russo’s did in Civil War overall and specifically this scene, which involved the debatable main character of the franchise which they hadn’t worked with before, Tony Stark, and that they handled him so well, I never had a shadow of a doubt that IW would be good after hearing that they were directing it. The Russo’s were the best fucking thing to happen to this franchise and I can’t wait for Avengers 4.
Sorry for the text wall lol
Totally agree. I’m watching whatever the Russos make from now on.
100% agreed that conversation scene is one the best directed scenes in the entire MCU I was gripped in that scene just as much if not more than the action scenes and Civil War has some fantastic and intense action scenes.
You are full of shit. And Civil war seems to have had no effect. Did the UN even give approval for any of the Avengers to do anything? No....
Tony never said he stop building in Iron Man 3, there is even a line there where he is encouraged to build things to help with his anxiety attacks. Iron Man 3 connected to Ultron well, he just destroyed his old suit so he can start making new ones
Travis Romig Civil War had no effect? Did you even see Infinity War...?
Think of it this way, if we hadn't seen Stark at his most arrogant, his most flippant and height of douchebaggery, watching his come down in Civil War wouldn't have had the same impact. I think when you take all the movies into account as a progression, Starks character arc works out perfectly. Same with Cap.
It's also interesting to note how they switch places in terms of what they believe. Originally, Steve was the guy who followed orders, who believed in government and was a true blue patriot, whilst Tony was the polar opposite of that. Yet by the time Civil War happens, they've switched places entirely.
Totally Agreed!!
Yeah I love that aspect too, how they had switched around completely, yet it being fully believable with both characters.
yeah that was noice to see
Well, they had to get the audience to root for Iron Douche over Cap somehow
@@robertjones1440 so you dont like iron man
Thanos first appeared in the comics, as an Iron Man villain, in issue #59, I think it was. That same issue was Drax's first appearance as well.
I think it was 55
Drax was already appeared on very first marvel comic but we could not see him
Sorry but I can't see a single point here.
The reason why Tony is hostile to Steve is because he's salty his dad talked about him so much. He views him as part of the reason his dad wasn't around so much.
Tony gives Thor grief in the Forest because he had just curbed him on the Jet. And only starts a real fight after Thor cheapshots him.
The Hulkbuster gets utterly destroyed in a very quick manner by the Hulk. Hence the replacement parts. Veronica is a collaboration between Stark and Banner. Of course it's going to do well. Also the armour *is* totally wrecked. Hence why Stark doesn't use it the rest of the movie.
Stark takes out Ultron easily because it makes sense. Tony is using a top of the line suit. Ultron is using a body made of scrap and old Chitauri tech put together in a matter of hours. Hell if you dig into some of the supplementary material. The power source Ultron has to scrape together for his main body is estimated to be only 15-20% as powerful as a arc reactor.
Tony laughing at the others is a coping mechanism. He knows he fucked up. But he stands tall and reiterates that they need this. (which he turns out to be correct about). Tony is stubborn. This is consistent with his character.
No Whedonism
Just character arc
Them bitching about Steve struggling with Ultron while Tony did not was ridiculous. Iron Man is way stronger than a super soldier so of course he isn’t gonna struggle like Steve.
Thank you. There are a few decent points in this video, but it really isn't a video essay as much as a few scattered observations without a real thesis.
Ok I totally 100% agreed with this video but now I totally and 100% agree with your reply. Which only proves what I’ve said for all my years, well it’s more of a quote but I can’t remember which philosopher said this but it’s so true “anything that can be proven can equally be disproven.” -Plato I think. I need to look that up considering I use it all the time. But good points.
Completely agree on all points.
Iron Man 1:”I had my eyes open. I saw young Americans get killed by the very weapons I built to protect them. Which is why as of now I am closing the Stark Industry weapon manufacturing system.
Iron Man 2:(I honestly don’t remember)
Avengers 1:He sacrifices himself and nearly died to save the world.
Iron Man 3: He has Ptsd and is constantly upgrading to save people.
Age of ultron: He builds Ultron to stop any alien threat due to his ptsd.
What the Russos did only made sense to do for his character and they didn’t really fix him to be honest.
The words are "improve and maintain"
@What Not To Do At a Stoplight even thanos didnt kill him. He is The Invincible Iron Man.
Yeah, I agree. This is most logical path for his character. Also, up to a certain point, Iron Man was most powerful character on Earth. This until he meets Cap, Banner, Thor, etc. Its almost as if he feels threatened because there are new individuals who can kill him. His adaptability what narrowly keeps him on edge.
Iron Man 2: He pushes himself to extremes realizing he will die before understanding the real relationship he had with his father and ultimately stopping what he could have been (Vanko).
See, to me, Tony is slowly having a nervous breakdown. You can see him get mean in the Avengers, get jittery in Iron Man 3, lose faith in Ultron, and then feel guilty in Civil War, Spider-Man, and Infinity War. He brings a lot of troubles on himself and then makes things worse when he tries to fix them.
For me, the entire MCU ip through Tony's obvious death in Avengers 4, is one big Iron Man movie.
Tbh I dont think Tony will die. He just built a relationship with Peter and in Avengers 3 he said something about having a dream about him and pepper with a baby. I think Cap's death is way more likely.
...I love him 3000. This video has so much more weight now.
In avengers, Tony "angered" banner to proof to the team that he's not an uncontrollable freąk. He learned about banner's work, and recognized him as a smart and missunderstood person. And he also saw a bit of himself in banner, who wants to redeem himself and show to the world that he is more than a green monster. He himself is trying to change his past.
So when tony realized how banner must feel, he joked around him, tried to open up to him. That's why he "loves how he turns into a green rage monster" and that's why he poked him with the tazer.
Thank god there are people who don't just see Tony's actions in black and white. His character is EXTREMELY human and relatable.
Indeed
that moment in civil war when cap says he knows bucky killed tony parents....man i felt the hurt, i felt the betrayer, thats filmmaking
I'm unclear on that, did Cap know? Cap only knew that Hydra had them killed cos of Winter Soldier, but did he ever know it was Bucky that killed them? I always thought he was telling the truth in that scene, and Stark felt betrayed cos Cap never told him they were murdered by Hydra, he always believed it was an accident.
Rmb in winter soldier when Cap and black widow go to a area where a computer is talking to them about Hydra infiltrating Shield. There is a scene that shows Howard stark deceased very clearly to show hydra killed him. As Cap said in civil war he knew his father was murdered but he did not know it was bucky who did it.
Cap only knew Hydra killed his parents. He didn't know Bucky specifically did it. He might have suspected but he didn't know for sure.
Bucky told him about it after they "captured" him in Civil War and had his arm in a press. He knew it was Bucky but not long enough to tell Tony as they were in the middle of their little disagreement. Tony really didn't want to listen to Cap, just wanted him to return asap. And Cap just wanted to finish the mission to stop the dude from waking up the other super dudes. Tony did not know this and thus assumed Cap knew it was Bucky all along, which caused him to snap.
@BillBillinger are we sure Cap didn’t already know? At the end of Winter Soldier Black Widow gives him Bucky’s Hydra file (she also says “you might not want to pull on that string” which to me suggests that something in the file could dramatically affect Cap’s opinion of Bucky) Could it be possible that the file contains his missions, including the Stark family assassination? I always saw the early Stark assassination scene in Civil War as a method to 1) show the serum origins of the “other winter soldiers” and 2) as an audience reveal (not a Cap reveal) that Bucky was the assassin. To me, the vault video reveal of the death of his parents to Stark carries the weight because it becomes apparent to Stark 1) that Cap knew for a significant period of time (longer than the Civil War plot-disagreement), 2) didn’t tell Tony, and 3) was still making efforts to protect Bucky (which understandably would be nonsensical to someone who just saw his parents brutally murdered by him). IMO like the op, that’s what makes the scene (s/o to RDJ’S performance) so great.
a child that can stop a 2 ton vehicle moving 35 mph with his bare hand.
who is also a genius
(smile)
Ede Dizon Pftt that’s child’s play (end me now)
The bit in Ultron where Tony is laughing is him coping with what he's done. That was a hysterical laugh not haha this is hilarious. He's having a moment of a mental breakdown
iron man 3 changed my life... im a mechanic btw.. and that scene that the kid says.... your a mechanic right.... tony says yeah... the kid says well build something ... it literally changed the way i think about problems
thats awesome
I’ve always wanted to become and engineer like tony and yeah that also inspires to become one in the future
@@Thatboy2678 they say that mechanics were created because engineers need heroes too
@@wickedcityracer that's awesome
Robert downey jr is iconic
he truly is
I C O N I C
is that a HiddenXperia refference ?
Not all
Not at all
In regards to Tony bringing a 15 year old kid into a fight he had nothing to do with, here's my interpretation. Tony had known about Peter Parker for a while at this point, maybe since even before Ultron, he had seen the sort of things he could do and was impressed. He wanted to test him, provide him with a real challenge, but he didn't want to put the kids life in real danger. He would never have called upon him to fight agains Ultron or the Mandarin, but when Cap and company go rogue, it gave him the perfect opportunity to see what the kid can really do. He knows that none of them want intentionally try to do Peter any real harm so he chose this moment to meet him.
Peter didn’t even have the powers in age of Ultron. In civil war he said he had the powers for 6 months
Totally agree. To elaborate on the others meeting him: it's a great way for the others to assess his character, powers and fighting style. Because they've fought against him they're more familiar with his moves. That may not have been intentional on Tony's part, or by anyone for that matter, but it can really pay off for the team.
Peter got his powers in late 2015, after Age of Ultron.
true! he was studying spiderman before he met him. thanks for the reminder :)
I agree with this. I belive it was in Homecoming when Tony says "If Cap wanted to lay you out, he would"
Between Tony and Steven, Tony was the one "with the will to act".
Without thinking of the consequences a lot of times. That's why Cap is such a great leader. He isn't ruled by his emotions and is capable of strategy.
@@kevinthunder3375 Except that the entirety of Captain America: The First Avenger is Cap doing things based on emotions, not thinking ahead and having everything work out in his favor and everyone loving him and respecting him because of it.
In First Avenger he did things for the sake of duty and trust, because he was after all a soldier first following orders but grows into the hero. Then in Winter Soldier that trust is betrayed and he has to try new methods.
I came into this video like "god damn youtube always recommending some bullshit, what is it this time...omg it's half an hour long, ok I'll watch 2 minutes"
After watching the full 26 and a half minutes I thank you for this video! This made me realise the real importance of the character in this universe. I always knew that Tony had the whole mcu "written around him" but this video made me think about him as a human being having to deal with all these issues. And ofc about how all this is depicted on the screen. Thank you again for writing and positing this essay!
thank you so much for sticking it out :)
While I agree about Whedon sometime sacrificing constant characterization for a quick quip, Tony being so antagonistic in The Avengers towards Steve makes perfect sense to me. It's in the first line - Howard never shut up about Steve and his virtues. Which makes sense for Howard Stark, but pair this with Tony feeling like a constant disappointment, there were years during which resentment towards Steve could built before he even left the ice.
totally agree! I actually have more trouble believing they're supposed to be such good friends by Civil War.
No problem about this either, fighting together against and alien army has the same effect as fighting a troll, it just forges a connection of trust.
I'm sorry man, but a lot of this is video Essay is completely ignoring context of the movies in favour for shilling out scenes just because of a director. These characters have an internal logic, that's carried throughout the movies, and to discredit the writing left from one director to another simply by saying "He was charaterized by Arrogance" when that's litterally one of Stark's main characteristics in the first place, you're losing that argument. Bringing up the Ultron scene. That's a perfectly human response. Gallow's humor, or even a completely absurd response as to laugh about having made a plague on the world falls in line with someone who knows exactly how hard he fucked up. Hell, I even cracked up at how bad I failed my graduation tests back on my third semester.
Although Tony's laugh is perfectly fine in context like you said, he immediately doubles down and claims he did nothing wrong, he is acting really douchy there tbh.
This is especially a problem considering Ultron happens right after his humbling experience in Iron Man 3.
@@maxcoseti Interesting point! Thought you might as easily say that he doubled down on his intention, not the outcome. Tony does a lot of shit that could either go really wrong or really well, and this isn't the first time he's done so.
@@Lolsocialism I totally agree that's who he is, but what I'm saying is that even when things go awfully wrong he doesn't appear to be willing to admit it. Also my original comment wasn't displaying a 2nd paragraph in which I said this is especially a problem considering Ultron happens right after his humbling experience in Iron Man 3.
@@maxcoseti I'm kind of at fault in the same way. Which I think is why I reason with Tony so well. I totally agree with you in that how he reacts is qutie contrary to what happened in IM3, but I think that more pertains to his character traits. (Also you didn't omit it, I just didn't see it, sorry!). Tony constantly regresses, it's something you see him do a lot, he learns something, incorporates it, but incorrectly. IE: and SPOILERS: Tony is humbled after realizing that a piece of technology can't be the hero, he makes Ultron. Tony learns that telling a kid from Brooklyn won't back down, he tries to make him back down on a spaceship. Tony learns that Pepper hates him for making Iron man who he is, he keeps the chest cavity for nanomachines to make the bleeding edge armor.
I think it's less that Tony isn't humbled, but that he's bad at learning from his mistakes. Hell. We can obviously see that he feels bad about attacking Steve and bucky, but he doesn't really have the guts to own up to his mistake of blind rage. I at least think there's an internal logic to him, is that makes sense? If I'm talking nonsense please let me know.
@@Lolsocialism It makes some sense, yes
And my friends wonder why i'm on team iron man.
Cap would do anything for Bucky, even if it means tearing the team apart. I mean Bucky is awesome and all, but there are other solutions.
In the scene when Tony finds out Bucky killed his parents, there is no emotion at all on Cap's face, not even a bit of sympathy or anything, while Bucky looks like he's being teared apart.
No empathy or sympathy did we watch the same movie and of course he would fight for Bucky he was brainwashed he was trying to stop Tony from doing something he'd ultimately would regret
I wound like but 69 likes
Cap would never tear apart the team like that. Cap literally figures out 30 minutes into the film that Bucky didn't do it and who was going to be killed on site. Cap was merely protecting a friend who was framed, while Zemo was on the verge of resurrecting a squad of killer super soldiers.
Elisha Wilson I think the point is that while they are watching the video of his parents(one of which is Steve’s past friend) being murdered Steve really has no emotions on his face. It’s like he is waiting for Tony’s reaction which is kind of crappy. Steve should be flinching or something and when he admits to of knowing there is a bit of remorse or imploring(which could be looked at as Steve asking Tony not to be angry which this isn’t about Steve or Bucky this is about Tonys grief and Steve should of seemed more understanding.) and that’s it. Of course Steve shows anger and defiance throughout while wanting to protect Bucky but is there any remorse for Tony’s grief? That’s what the OP is talking about. I do think Steve was right to protect Bucky and I(along with the writers) believe if Tony had known before he wouldn’t of reacted like he did in Siberia.
deucezulu22 He is half the reason the team is torn apart Tony is the other half. If you try and talk about how Steve was telling Tony about the mission it can completely be looked at as Steve giving a bs reason for the sh!t he pulled. Rhodey and Nat were standing there when Steve tried; why didn’t they listen? Don’t say Natasha the only reason she let them go was because she knew Steve wasn’t going to stop, right or wrong, she wanted to avoid more people getting hurt because of Steve’s stubbornness.
"then there's ofcourse Peters dusting" dude did you have to put it like that 😅
yep, still too soon.
I know right. I won't be okay until May 2019.
Too soon
What's interesting about Civil War is that by that point Cap and Tony switched positions. In Captain America 1 Cap would probably have signed it and Tony would not (his f-u to Congress in Iron Man 2 a case in point)
Beastinvader I love Civil War with a passion. ONLY Infinity War topped it...I still despise Tony’s character in it. It’s laughably bad arguments supported by someone who compromises his core principle and gives into to pure feelings over reality and reason.
Hence I greatly enjoyed watching the best avenger trounce him morally and physically.
And no, Cap wouldn’t have sided with the Govt at any point...Tony would have backed him up with real character consistency though
@오야 Exactly. And becoming an outlaw in Civil War was the natural progression. Actually, in IW he became apathetic: he didn't even care about being arrested anymore.
Tony didn't cower, he held up his arms in an effort to protect his head. That's called basic defense.
not only that, he still had suit power since his gauntlet was still lit up. dude could've literally shot right through cap but didn't.
Chimar Varmidium
I think that Mike K was talking about what happened in Civil War when Cap destroyed his arc reactor on a chest , not the fight with Thanos
Mike K, its still called cowering. liking the person doing it doesn't change what it is.
@@vesnalukic9898 lol he was talking about civil war, not IW. When he says "he still has power in his gauntlet" he was referring to stark
It’s also an instinct to raise your hands over your head if someone’s going to hit you
I honestly really felt for Tony in the final conflict of CivilWar. He just found out his parents death was actually a murder and that the murderer was within striking distance. Anybody could be understood for lashing out like that. Also his noteable reluctance to actually battle Cap since he was his friend but the betrayal he felt when Cap stood in his way. In Infinity War I loved that Tony went all in against Thanos and despite not having super powers managed to do what no one else had done so far in the film, make Thanos bleed. Thanos seemed to respect that Tony didnt even try to run but continued fighting with everything he had knowing his odds of winning were 1 in 14,000,605 and that any bit he let up would move him farther from that one chance. Watching Peter "dust" was Stark seeing his hope for a better future and all of his work he had put into it fail and literally turn to dust. As said in Ultron in his encounter with Fury, TS "Watching my friends die, you would think that would be as bad as it gets. Nope, that wasn't the wprst part" NF-" The worst part...is that you didn't" And in IW his nightmare came true.
The greatness of the MCU (which ironically the DCEU fails at) is that even the worst MCU movies are still important to continuing the CU's storyline. While not always the movie we want, they are never so bad that it makes what happens afterwards unbelievable, or even unwanted. There's always something you can take away from every MCU movie, and instead of running away from it (like the DCEU did), they instead embrace it.
Take for example, Thor:TDW and Thor: Ragnarok. Loki took over Asgard. Now Taika could have just retconned the while thing, but instead of doing that he *ran with the idea.* He turned it into a joke that had real consequences to it with Odin's death.
@Bob Bobbertson MCU is marvel cinematic universe, the universe Tony Stark is in. CU stands for cinematic universe
@Bob Bobbertson are you too ignorant to use google?
@Bob Bobbertson Dumbass.
Prison Mike chill
@Kay Unfortunately you're one of the only people that thinks that. I liked Shakespeare Thor, I liked his friends, I liked Asgard's crystal spire design. It makes it clear that time on Earth is humanizing him, that he's not able to just summon lightning and appear invincible anymore. I wish they made it more clear that he found the same camaraderie in the Avengers as in his Asgardian friend.
So many people are happy he went from "somber to badass" when it was more important that he went from deity to hero.
Really? I loved Iron Man in Avengers.
He was funny, but that was about it.
Same Iron man is the best and my favorite
Mumble really shallow view on your part
@@gustavogoncalves1102 care to elaborate?
Me too. He was pretty much the highlight for me
Couldn’t agree more. The Russo’s did for Iron Man and Cap what Taika Watiti did for Thor.
Taika did the perfect Dr strange
He even had the YELLOW GLOVES
Ragnarok was awful
Ragnarok was a glorious 70/80s space-opera. Previously Thor was far too serious and they started writing, him as was mentioned here, down-right Shakespearean it was not good at all.
Shining Darkness exactly, it was stupid to make Thor talk and act Shakespearean when if you actually look at Norse mythology the best comparison to Thor would be a bro. Thor usually loves to do things like go on adventures to test his strength, get drunk, get into tavern brawls, and feasting. Basically he was created to go hand in hand with the Viking culture that worshipped him. Like Thor getting pissed off at being called a princess and nearly starting a war over it is pretty much what Thor in Norse mythology would do. Whedon made Thor way more Shakespearean than the director of the first movie who is an actual Shakespearean actor and director.
I’m only six minutes in and so far so good except for when you said that iron man is over powered if anything they nerfed tf out of iron man. I mean cmon in the first iron man he took a shot from a tank and fell like 300 ft and his suit was pretty much in perfect condition in the civil war cap was able to break Tony’s jets in his feet and break his helmet off wtf iron man is no where near OP
And yes I am an iron man fan boy but cap didn’t beat iron man the only reason cap “won” was because of plot
Also captain was punching Ironman armour with bare hands and damaging it when a tank shot couldn't damage it. Reality is cap would've broke his hand if he punch Ironman
tony stark is a man who has known failure ever since day 1 of the MCU, and though with time he forgot its taste. he never forgot what it felt like, and this was his painful reminder. him having his perfect creation beaten and destroyed and then used to almost kill him was just the same as the feeling of a broken body and the taste of blood in the mouth of a fighter in his eyes.
and with that Tony Stark learned to fail yet again, strive yet again, and hurt yet again, but he was also reminded that every time he fails, he always bounces back.
I loved Iron Man 3, mainly because we see Tony actually struggle, and that's really refreshing. I hoped they'd explore it more and we kind of see it in Infinity War but it could've been explored even more
'Tony goes to a really dark place in Infinity war'
QUEENS
he doesn't go to queens in IW
*civil war*
Yeah good job copying comments. We're impressed.
Evan Sampson™ What comments? I didn't look at any and I certainly wasn't trying to impress anybody so if that's what you inferred then you'd be better off keeping your mouth shut.
Tony did the right thing, so damn tired of people idolizing cap.
Rogers is who we aspire to be in a way, Stark is who we usually turn out to be like in retrospect. Both fall under certain extremes, with Rogers being the ultimate relic of a bygone era, carrying with him the morals & nostalgia of his blissful "youth". Stark on the other hand is someone more relatable due to his capacity for error, whether it comes from general hubris or situations he created, and his desire to make amends & prepare for an unforeseeable future is something we commonly resort to, either out of fear or anticipation. It's alright to respect Rogers so long as you can understand where Stark is coming from.
i too used to be an ironman fanboy, but then I realized Cap was the better man.
@Janhavi Kumthekar Cap > Iron Man... and ur mom is gay
@Janhavi Kumthekar ur mom gay confirmed.
Geez. What's so wrong about idolizing cap? Well, unless if they hate Iron Man.
I liked this video but I disagree about your suggestion that pepper should have died. She did not need to be "Fridged" as it were. The trope of dead family member or more specifically, a dead love interest is done and outdated. The missed opportunity was sidelining pepper into a typical girlfriend role when they could have subverted that stereotype.
I really hope she gets the Rescue armour at some point. Probably not thought since she's barely used.
Yes Rescue would be a great addition to the MCU, especially if they want to keep the IM franchise going.
Sam sterling-court outdated? Something tells me. Youve barely experienced seeing it over and over. I think youve just been told its been done, over and over. And also, "missed opportunity" to turn pepper into something else? Shes not a hero. And yet we like her anyway. Your "missed opportunity" sounds like turning pepper into something else. And has nothing to do with opportunity. Where have you seen that work???! Turning an existing character into something else which means, its something out of her character. Pepper is actually boring to you isnt she? U dont like her success.
I mean they did subvert the danzel in distress thing at the end of IM3 with her being the one to kill the villain at least. Even though I would have preferred he died when Tony blew up his armor on him.
Sam sterling-court yes, I wish that Iron Man 3 ended with Pepper realizing how important being a hero was to Tony and wanting to join him, then Tony could build her a suit of armor that helps her utilize Extremis then have Tony jokingly call her Rescue since she comes to his rescue quite often in the story which then brings in Rescue to the story. I mean they already made Rhodes get paralyzed when it was Tony in the comics who got paralyzed, so why not have Pepper keep the Extremis powers when it was Tony who got it in the comics? Also once again it would be a way to bring in Rescue which is what so many comic fans thought was going to happen when they saw her in the Iron Man suit in the trailers.
Ironman never needed to be fixed.
After Iron Man 2 and 3, he sure as hell did need fixing. He was completely stale.
Anton A. Not really
Anton A. More like the best character in the mcu
Exactly. Jon Favreau and Joss Whedon had the perfect adaptation of Iron Man, he wasn't overpowered at all. If anything, Russos weakened Iron Man A LOT to make Captain America look cooler.
Yoah Boy are you kidding I can’t tell
Russos going back to re-do the battle of New York. Good move.
Jordan Schlansky what r u doing here man? Is watching UA-cam one of your various tasks? 😂
I'd Rather they go back and redo Ultron, and actually make that movie great not so-so.
I think you're more biased to cap than Ironman🤣.!!
Yeah at the point when he is talking about the civil war and at the end about how “graciously” Steve leaves the shield it’s kind of disgusting. Tony just found out what Steve has kept and ultimately the shield is a symbolism to who Steve or Cap is. He is supposed to be full of honesty the shield was made by Howard who utterly believed in Steve(or should I say cap) so of course Tony leaves that jab because it’s the truth. In that moment Steve didn’t deserve the shield and Steve knew it.
@@MissFueledByCoffee I think Steve just leaves the shield because he doesn’t care about being captain America anymore, it’s him telling Tony that he just doesn’t care anymore, that he can win, that he can be right and that’s he’s fine being the villain, fine going on the run.
Not to mention the agony of being stranded alone on a moon far from home. Not knowing who might be alive and who is gone because you fail to stop it.
Well Nebula is there with him, as well as Peter's Ravager ship
@@christopherchance4860 i cant remember did wong die? if not they have his sling ring.
@@hardwirecars Wong didn't come with them.
It's a planet in the movie, not a moon of Saturn like the comic
Stank
You know me?
hahahaha
"that is pure unfiltered full fat milk" was the best quote i've heard you use
I'm totally going to use that line. People need to be reminded about the pure awesomeness that is full fat milk.
He hates cap because his father "fathered" cap and not him... it's no "whedonism" is logic. 🤦♀️
I really wish that Disney had let Shane Black have Maya Hansen be the REAL villain behind The Mandarin, as it was in the original script. She had a better established backstory and more interaction with Tony, she wasn't just another mirror image of arrogant businessman, Stark (Obediah, Justin Hammer) and seeing an ex fling of Tony's come back to teach him for the womanising we saw in the first movie, could've been a nice lesson for him being a "douche"!
I thought the fact Maya managed to infiltrate the core group- just to see how her plan affects Stark and Pepper in person, was interesting psychologically too and might've had a larger impact if it wasn't a plan perpetrated by a character who vanishes for huge swathes of the movie, like Killian does. It would've been a bigger surprise if she'd turned round and shot Killian, in the scene where he killed her, as she seemed a sympathetic character up until then. I think it's obvious to see the flaws this mandated, last minute change, had on the script for Iron Man 3.
Loved your video, by the way!
Couldn't agree more!
That sounds way more interesting
Killian looked like a good villain on villians wiki, but he looks so shit in the clips we got of him.
I think you're missing the point of some of the characterizations in those earlier movies. I don't think they fixed him so much as we're seeing stuff that was set up previously pay off. I think it's okay to like that pay off more than the set up; that's normal. However, the earlier stuff you criticize should be recognized as important, even if it wasn't as satisfying at the time.
His rudeness in Avengers was a big part of his character that continues forward. Most of it's directed at Steve, and it establishes that he doesn't like Steve. This never changes much, and it's an important part of their character dynamic. Sure, he may grow to respect him, tolerate him, and for a brief few moments in Age of Ultron, things seem fairly cordial (though that was likely with the help of some alcohol). It sets up this extra layer of tension, which is much more personal, and it causes the conflicts over the Sakovia Accords to feel more personal, too. The other rudeness is directed at SHIELD and Thor, both of which have given him little reason to like. I also think there's a few scenes where the mind stone is having an effect, especially in the scene where the two are most aggressive with each other. In that same scene, other characters were far more on edge than normal, including Captain America, Nick Fury, and Black Widow (who is usually totally unflappable).
In Age of Ultron, the entire plot is him eating humble pie, and sets up for the way he takes responsibility later. The major issue is due to a mistake he made. Ultron's existence is his comeuppance, where his big effort to improve the situation makes everything horribly worse. I also don't see that scene you point to as him being a douchebag. It's him reacting to that comeuppance you said he never had by laughing in a bit of gallows humor even as he realizes how massive of a mistake he's made. I don't think he needs to lose a battle for him to not be totally overpowered, as the film's whole plot is about his mistake. He didn't make such a huge shift just because of meeting one mom. Those things were already on his mind when he was funding a bunch of grants for the students in MIT.
Iron Man 3 has its issues, but I think its place in the arc is also important. Tony's main opponent in this film isn't really Killian. It's his own demons. We see the direct effects of the PTSD, and it ranges from crippling to mostly under control. We don't see the direct impact in later films (largely because they're not Iron Man films, so the focus isn't strictly on him), but the effects this has on his decisions persist. Of all the Avengers, he's the one that responds in the most human way. When terrible things happen, he doesn't just put on the sad face for the requisite period of time, and then shrug it off two scenes later. Evereyone else tends to do this; Scarlet Witch comes close in Civil War, but as soon as Clint shows up, that horror from the explosion is totally forgotten, and she's off to help Cap. His entire arc in both Ultron and Civil War are based on his response to the bad things that have come as a result of their activities, and I think his PTSD informs that, even if we're not seeing the symptoms as directly in the films. His relationship with Pepper is another thing that serves as an antagonist in Iron Man 3 that continue to influence events (even if her speaking parts are short). That's partly why it doesn't matter too much (to Tony's arc) who he's fighting in Iron Man 3, even if the movie suffers for the poor physical antagonist.
I don't think the great characterization you point out in the later films would play as well without the background from the movies you're criticizing. Tony's more fatherly approach to Peter is a stark contrast with the young mechanic in Iron Man 3. His relative civility in Ultron is a contrast to his total arrogance in Avengers. The personal level conflict that have been woven through every film they've shared makes the conflict between Iron Man and Captain America makes Civil war far more poignant, even on Cap's side (has Cap even come close to his "Put on the suit" threat that he leveled at Tony?).
On the other hand, I don't understand why people think Cap is so great. One of his first lines in The First Avenger is "I can do this all day" and it's one of his last in Civil War. He hasn't changed. Sure, he's a great soldier, a leader, and overall a good person, but he's always been that; he didn't get there due to the experiences we've seen. He never makes mistakes from the first film he's in to the last. Sure, he loses at times, but actually making the wrong decision due to incomplete information or just screwing up? Nah, Cap is above that. He puts blind faith in Bucky and happens to be right. He's suspicious of project insight and happens to be right. This just continues on and on, and I wish that they'd have him make one of these big leaps of faith in the wrong direction so that we can see how he handles it and grows. Not just "we tried and came up short" but him actually doing the wrong thing due to incomplete information and someone of importance getting hurt.
We actually get to see Tony in this situation, and how he shifts and responds to those mistakes. We see his thought process and growth. Cap is more of a fixed point, which is fine, but leaves him a bit boring to me (which is fine, since he gets other characters to carry his movies 2/3rds of the time). I think Fury and Black Widow both grow more from the events of Winter Soldier, and that Civil War could easily be considered Iron Man 4 (and would have if Cap hadn't been coincidentally right *again*).
I never considered Civil war a captain America Movie, was always a Avengers movie to me. He was probably 5 or 6th of characters I actually cared for in that movie. It's only his movie in title in my opinion.
Delthor I love your assessment on Tony, but I disagree with you on Steve. You’re right, Cap was shown to be the golden boy, always assessing things correctly. He knew to disobey orders during WWII to rescue Bucky, he knew Project Insight was something shady, he knew Ultron was a bad idea, and he knew that the US government going after Bucky was leaving a real threat unopposed.
But he definitely messed up big time. He’s a man out of his time, and especially with Peggy dying, Bucky is his one last connection to his former life, and Bucky has always been Steve’s best friend, protecting him from the bullies before he became Captain America. His blind loyalty to Bucky is Cap’s biggest flaw and what gives Zemo his trump card to destroy the Avengers from within. It was clear to Cap that Bucky had killed Tony’s parents, but Cap, not wanting Bucky to get more hatred, fails to be a friend to Tony and does not tell him the truth. When Zemo shows the video and reveals the truth instead of Cap, it causes the climactic battle that divides the Avengers. The last battle of the end of Cap’s trilogy is the first time that Cap is wrong. He has lost the morale high ground. He failed to be a friend, and is why the Avengers were toast. The Avengers easily could have healed if it were not for that final battle. The airport scuffle was nothing, but Iron Man and Cap’s personal battle made things irreparable. It was symbolic that Cap loses his shield after the battle, realizing he doesn’t deserve it. He also (for legal reasons, but it feels like poetic justice for what he did to Tony) loses his freedom and status as Captain America, becoming a fugitive and wanted man.
Finally someone said it! What makes tony stark a good character in the MCU is his humanity. The fact that he isn’t perfect. He makes mistakes, grows from them, faces betrayal, heartbreak, happiness, and guilt, all of which makes him relatable. One-note characters like captain America, and Thor(pre-ragnarok), just don’t have that depth that makes a character worth investing your emotions into.
I don't know why I cried. But I've been so sick people bashing Tony in Civil War, saying he was wrong, when all I saw was a man in pain trying to do the right thing and take responsability for his mistakes. It made me so angry with Cap, bc not matter what he utterly belived he was doing the right thing about the accords, it was never really about that, it was about Bucky and he let himself to be compromised by his feelings more than his morals. For me, it literally broke a fundemental aspect of Cap's core and that (I believe) is why in Infinity Wars, his team is the one that doesn't quite fit EVEN when all of them know eachother in comparation to the other two teams (Iron Man/Spidey/Strange+GOG, and Thor/Rocket/Groot) who don't know anything about eachother and hasn't fully bonded but yet they manage to actually work together and feel right.
For me the Russo Brothers were what Marvel needed it the most. Directors who understood they're characters and paint them with subtlety.
Cap compromised the Avengers' for personal feelings and his own moral compass that he saw was better than everyone else's
Park Jimin is my light very true. Everyone tries to act like Tony was the one at fault for succumbing to his emotions when he finds out Bucky killed his parents. But Cap has been putting his emotions for Bucky I'm the way the ENTIRE movie in civil war.
@@ouchiegiverjr "Hes my friend" "I thought I was too" all the evidence