*Thanks for watching!* Is there anything I missed? What else do you need to know before becoming a Pro GM? Get your tickets to my table for D&D in a Castle now! It'll be an experience you won't forget! Details here: bit.ly/3bh9dmp Find each chapter of the video easily by clicking on the timestamps in the description.
Hey Guy! I'm a long time fan of your work and would love to discuss with you an opportunity to adapt DnD style storytelling to Web3. Is that something that would interesting you? If so, what is the best channel to reach you?
I've been running paid games for three years now, mostly advertising on Roll20, StartPlaying and facebook groups. Mostly D&D, some Alien RPG and Forbidden Lands. It has mostly been a very fun and rewarding (financially too) experience. The advice I would give is: 1. Carefully interview and screen players before the game, even before session zero. Just because a player is willing to pay doesn't mean they are a good fit for you or for the other players. 2. Be very upfront that even though it's a paid game I am the DM and there will be no favouritism or "going easy" just because the players are paying. 3. Post a clear campaign primer and character creation guidelines for everyone to see before they decide whether to join or not. 4. You really do NOT need miniatures, music, etc. for a great paid game. I've run paid sessions ($15 per player per session) with pure theater of the mind and the players really enjoyed it. What you need is consistency, good pacing, listening and communicating with the players, and being "on" 100% of the time - no phoning in a session!
@@berserkape1014 No, I've never found any group like that. But what worked really well was couples. I've had a few couples in my games and it was great (assuming they made it on time after putting the kids to bed).
@@razorboy251 Last time I DMed for a couple. They got a divorce and ended my game. But yeah generally people who are orderly enough to have kids are good enough to play games without problems.
Without prying into your personal finances, is it something you can make a living wage from and how long does it take to build up reliable income? I'm genuinely considering doing this as a business but I don't want to step into something unreliable or underpaid
@@Metal-Spark oh heavens no, I'd have to run several sessions each DAY to make even close to my day job, but as a side hustle to pay for my hobbies it's great.
I GM professionally full-time using the StartPlaying platform. These are generally good guidelines. I have a code of conduct and terms of service that all newcomers to my table have to sign in order to protect myself and the other players at the table and make sure everyone is on the same page. I'd consider this sort of thing vital when providing a service like this. Also use safety tools-for real, people, use safety tools.
@@shawnwolf5961 A better question might be " How do you justify me paying you to run the game? How do I know it's worth it/ I'm going to get my money's worth?" Is there a test you take?
I started DMing for a Community Center late last year (hourly wage). It's a challenge because on top of everything you've listed, I'm also running for kids age 9-14, so you have to factor that in as well. They've paid the community center and the community center pays me, so I can't just boot a problem player out. It is definitely fun and rewarding though.
Maybe see about setting up a sort of social contract with players so if they become to much of a problem player and won't work to be better you can remove them.
I'm in agreement with the above. Social contract is everything. I am also of the view that as a GM, we should serve the majority of players - if one player is being disruptive, being a bully, repeatedly interrupting the flow of the game, they are upsetting EVERYONE'S play. That should be more than justifiable reason for kicking that problem player after giving them a few warnings
Fortunately, I have the support of the event coordinator, so I can go to them and they will address it. Plus, they are 11 year old boys (no females have joined so far). I throw on my "Dad Voice", and they usually settle down pretty quick.
I started DMing for local kids in my town around... 2 years ago now? And just this year got a physical studio to run games out of! It's different from what I run for my friends, not least because they're all so young, but it's been the best job I've ever had. We have a website now and everything; it's really been taking off!!
@Caitlyn Mckay - I'm curious what the insurance demands for something like this would be. Things tend to get a bit stringent when you are providing a service that caters to children. How do you navigate that?
I was hired by a local game store to run games for anyone who happened to come in. I got paid $11.00 and hour by the store. I was NOT paid by the players, and they were NOT my friends. I had a full table of 7 players and the game ran for 3-4 hours once a week.
I am part of a group of 4 dms each with our own campaign; players can pay per session on a Pay What You Want basis, with no obligation. The whole group are friends and it doesn't feel like being paid to entertain, but rather being appreciated for the work that goes into DMing.
This is how it should be. When money gets into creative endeavors it tends to ruin the creative spirit of the artist. This less formal arrangement is likely to be much more rewarding than the "job" that Guy is describing.
So I've been a full-time pro DM in Namibia for 2 months now, since quitting my soul-crushing bank job. I charge 300 Rand (~20USD) per month for a weekly 4h game. It's been fantastic. I knew nothing about D&D in the beginning of last year. I've learned a lot, and still am. But players are having fun and so am I. Here's some basic things I do: - Monthly payment upfront, regardless of showing up. Free session, zero, then 50 bucks a session if the first month is not full. If I can't make it, 50 bucks refund per session. I print character sheets and keep them there. - Session begins when the players who are present decide. It ends 4 hours later, give or take 30 minutes. One 15-minute break in the middle, and max two tiny 2-minute short breaks (but usually none). - Food and drink allowed, snacks for the party earns inspiration. - Sharing session notes before the session earns inspiration. - I run modules, mainly WD:DH, supplemented with AI, WD:DMM adding stuff from DMsGuild and Alexandrian, and my own tidbits. Also currently working on a flowy, streamlined, grand mega Waterdeep complilation campaign book which I'm not sure how I'd release or if it's even legal. It's mainly for me anyway. - I use FoundryVTT with many modules, Winamp for sound (many owned videogame OSTs, Tabletop Audio, other free stuff online), smart bulbs for atmosphere, and a wall-mounted 4K screen. - I own all D&D Beyond content, to which all players have access as soon as they join a campaign. - I run 5 weekly games at 18:00-22:00 for adults, and have just started running afternoon games at a high school. - Group size: 4-6. 3 is too little income; 7 is too chaotic. - If you're in 2 of my campaigns, subsequent monthly fee is at a 33% discount. - I sell dice and have just started making T-shirts. If you guys have any questions, hit me up here. I'd be happy to answer them.
@@dumplings_guy7303 I vet my players as much as I can, but if something does happen I'd text them addressing the issue. In session zero I also tell everyone that there's a three strikes policy, but depending on the situation it might be tighter. A text takes care of the problem usually though. I asked one player who often came tipsy and disruptive to not drink, and explained that she was ruining the other players' fun. She understood, and said that if need be she can leave the campaign if need be. Another player was not showing up on time, like ever. I kept telling him that he's hurting the other players by doing this, until eventually he just stopped showing up. After 2 absences I removed him from the group and we never heard from him again.
I charge $5 per player prepaid in advance and only 5 players. I use the money for D&D supplies, but more importantly the money provided me a sense of urgency to be a better DM or provide a better story/game experience and the players get unlimited excess to the full D&D Beyond digital library. My sessions are on Sunday 12-1ish we cook dinner too as a group game lasts till 6-9pm Bottom line, charge money but don’t do it for the money. The money is used as a collective respect, it represents each person’s time and reminds us of our value. A game players pay for, they respect more, and show up for.
Great topic! Another thing to consider when quitting your day job for this is taxation. The government might want to get a slice of that pie if it's considered professional
I pay taxes on my earnings, only fair. I still enjoy the rest of these TTRPGs spoils, too. AND I choose my hours. AND I get to cancel / quit / reschedule whenever I want, as long as I warn and talk to my players. Anything else you feel you wanna ask about ? (NOTE: unless you're ready to FULLY get committed to this, the earnings will NEVER replace your day job's and it can be pretty time-consuming too so unless you have a PASSION for it, I'd say skip it. Thanks and all the best !)
I'm thinking of starting a service where I gm for children, as a hybrid babysitting ans creative exploration setup. The formula changes a bit, but is still similar in many ways
What do you do if the kids get bored and run off? Also, doesn't this require a certain number of players? I guess it depends on the system, and even D&D can be adapted for 1-2 players... but it's not designed for that, and you're probably gonna find yourself in that situation more often if you try to adapt it to when parents want to go and do something. Might take a bit of legwork.
I've never attempted paid DMing, nor do I intend to, but I found this an interesting video nonetheless. Honestly, I think if all paid DMs actually did all (or at least, the majority of) the stuff you mentioned in this video, I probably wouldn't mind joining a paid campaign.
I have a specific mentality about "being a pro __". I don't want to be a professional, but I want to be the best I can. And if I can make a bit of money, that's nice. But the enjoyment and improvement must prevail to me
Hey Guy ide really be interested to see a video about what to expect or whats expected of players at a paid game in comparion to a regular game, just a video idea that could tie neatly to this one
All good and useful. I'd never consider charging anyone actual money for me to run a game; same goes for my friends who also run games. We do it because we love being the DM, we love the prep work. We get "paid" at the table, by everyone else bringing the snacks / drinks, maybe providing a venue, a ride to and from, etc. The actual costs incurred for content, are NOT always tied to the DM; basically players might own a book or a few depending on how much enjoyment they get from hardcopy, then I've got two friends who have purchased a lot of content on DnD Beyond and they can share that with whoever is the DM, for use by everyone in that campaign.
That can be my life saving route (in the war situation going) and can bring me smth to live on. Im trying to improve my quality as best as i can. Hope i could achieve it.
Not always. I have a paid gm of 2 years and we all have a great time and are very friendly with eachother. The key is that we respect his time and no one tries to not pay.
Remember if you donr pay your DM then they are paying for the privilege of running a game for you. The DM is often the one paying for books, minis, online tools, maps, kickstarters etc. I DM for free with my group and I probably spend about £40 a month on supplies, books and other things I mentioned. Money is still being spent to give everyone a good time its just all the DMs money. I am thinking of running a public game at my local game store and if it gets popular I might suggest a £2 tip from each player. This wouldn't make me money but it should cover expenses.
I DM, and have for many years now been using 100% resources paid for by a couple of my players (who also DM their own games, but happen to purchase shareable content). So all it costs me is my prep time, which I'm happy to share for free. DnD Beyond has made it super-simple, for one person to bank-roll the group.
Whatever happened to the good old "theater of the mind" format? I frankly hate minis, tokens, maps, etc. Minis take time to set up, move around, and turn a RP game into a wargame. I tried it several times and hated using it, so I reverted back to not using them. The same goes with maps as I want my PCs to not know where every room is, or even the layout of the structure so they can meta game and realize that that darkened area unseen obvious has a hidden door somewhere that needs to be found, or exploring every inch of the map/board because they know it's there, being represented right in front of them and not how they would see it in character at the time. I have opted for a simple large whiteboard where I draw the map and features on it as they see it, not in its entirety. Do you have a blueprint layout of every building or location that you go to? Or do you just see what you see and miss a lot of areas because you didn't go down them or weren't able to access them?
TotM is still definitely a thing across a lot of tables nowadays. I find using minis and physical maps/props to be the most engaging/exciting when used for really big, epic battles such as boss fights. There's just something about seeing my character represented in a physical form standing next to my companions and enemies that enhances my enjoyment of the game. With that said, I also agree that way too many people rely heavily on maps and tokens without realizing that TotM is very often *better* than this in many situations. When you go by TotM, it allows everyone to picture the scene and fill in the blanks themselves, even if they don't realize that's what they're actually doing in the moment, and what they see in their imaginations is probably more interesting than what could be depicted on a map. For instance, my group just recently ran a heist in a lord's manor totally in TotM, and I'd wager it was WAY more fun than if our DM had brought up a shoddy looking basic floorplan map in roll20.
@@DirkMcThermot as another DM once stated, maps can often be a disappointment to see and less interesting than you can imagine in your own head. It's part of why I went with a whiteboard as well dealing with distances. There are no exact distances. If they ask me how far something away is I tell them the rough estimate but in combat, I simply tell them that they are either in range, out of range, or in range with a disadvantage.
It really depends on the GM and the players. I for one play with players that like to strategice and do crazy plays - but that can become a bit meaningless if you can basically teleport in a fight because no one is tracking where everything is. And I will be honest, I don't have the capacity to remember all of it either. Playing over Discord and using the screenshare-function there for maps, it gets annoying if even one player has trouble looking at it. That being said - I only offer maps for combat and maybe large areas (like a regional or city map). But I free-ball a lot of it, too, so I couldn't pinpoint the blacksmith of the city to an exact location, just the general area/part of the city. And obviously, I only offer the players what they can actually see. For example, when my group went into a dungeon for the first time, they had to draw the map themselves until they found one deep within. Only then I offered them the map I used. And I learned that they did not have much fun doing it this way, so in my next dungeon, I will try to come up with something else.
@@ottokarl5427 for complex battles I have a binder with maps on my end in plastic sheet protectors and use a dry erase marker to keep track of movements.
I’ve thought about many of these questions, especially the absentee policy. My guess is once you’ve done this a while and you’re really good, demand goes up, you can command a better fee, and are likely able to charge people up front. I imagine that like any passion project you have to work really hard for little or no money to get where you want to be. And where you wind up will largely come down to talent, work ethic and no small amount of luck.
Something that was universally given in friendship and was free, is now not, for some people. Why would I be happy about that? To me, it is like paying someone to treat you like a friend would. No thanks. And yes, I DM for free.
@Temeraire That is a well reasoned argument. I think your concert analogy fails because in the analogy, ALL concerts used to be free and now some are not. So things used to better and now they are not. But whatever. To each their own. There are much more important things to worry about.
I am looking into going pro eventually. I am still growing my skills as a GM. I have a list of strengths and shortcomings I see in my personal GM playstyle. I offer a criticism card to my players after every session to give me an idea of what I can improve upon. Unfortunately I think I'm a harder critic on myself then my players. If you decide to keep discussing the Pro GM then let me ask your opinion. From what I can tell there are hundreds of D&D DMs out there that are pro. It's almost like a flood. Do you think by becoming much more versatile in the games I can run that there would be more of a demand?
I professionally GM full time now. I focus primarily on in person gaming, though I have some ongoing online games as well. I find clients primarily through StartPlaying.Games and word of mouth, and luckily I live near an area with lots of nerds with disposable income. I have corporate clients, a school that hired me for an afterschool D&D program, and private clients, and worked for GDC earlier this year. I strive to provide a high tier experience, and charge a commiserate rate. I make $330-$425 US per in person session, and $200-$300 US per online session. I am an exception to the general trend though, and the challenges Guy lays out are spot on. Still, despite these challenges I think there is far more opportunity for pro GMing to grow and be more profitable for more people.
I've been a pro DM for over 5 years now, which is longer than the term Pro DM was commonly used on the internet. A lot of what Guy says here is sound advice, but if you're really interested in doing this I'd encourage you to try different things and find out what works for you. Like I said, a lot of Guy's advice is sound, but I wouldn't take it all as gospel. SOME of what Guy says I'd argue is just his opinion. I'll give you an example... In his opinion, you need to have an encyclopedic level of knowledge about the rules and adventures you are running, because, I assume, if he was paying that's probably an expectation he'd have. But this is not a universal fact that all clients will expect of you, nor is it somehow a "job requirement". It is a nice plus, sure, but in my experience, clients will absolutely cut you some slack and treat you like a human being rather than a machine they expect to memorize all of the thousands of rules in this game. I have well over 60 clients and am concurrently running over a dozen different games every week, in different editions/systems and adventures, which means sometimes I do get my wires crossed. My clients know this and they don't give me a hard time at all for not having 100% of the adventure or rules memorized inside and out (besides, I'd argue that's the job of the VTT I pay for to memorize that stuff for me). And I charge a premium rate (higher than the rates Guy says in this video) and consistently get 5-star reviews. I've never had someone complain that I didn't know the material well enough, despite regularly saying "I'm not sure, let's look it up". You do need to provide your clients with a higher quality of service and entertainment than a hobbyist DM, but I would disagree that you need to somehow develop superhuman levels of memorization powers to do it. At the end of the day, that stuff is secondary to giving them a good time. One thing I would add to his list of things you should know before going in... If you're running for multiple groups, I'd encourage you to avoid running the same adventure for two or more groups concurrently if possible. You'd think "well, running the same adventure means less prep work for me, right?" but in practice, it actually requires more meticulous note-taking so as to keep track of which group did what.
I was calculating this sometime last year.. and for it to be economically viable I would have to run 5, 4 hour sessions per week at €25 per session. and only spend 4 hours to prepare for every session otherwise I would be "losing" money :P So thats what being a pro is. work all day and play all night.
When travel was less complicated, I played the itinerant GM for willing hosts - fellow Forever GMs - in certain destinations, mainly places where I already have a connection or some association, so it's not a business model, per se, but an exchange of gifts? Spares me the lugging of all the figurines and diorama kit where the host is that fellow GM - otherwise it's 2D representations plus Theatre of the Mind. I don't think taking money directly for gamemastering suits me, not unless in a capacity similar to that described just previously by Doug Coughler.
A lot of these things you say you NEEED are not true. There is so much GMs are forgiven for. Players rarely need GMs to be perfect and know all. I pay a gm for an ffg game and he barely knows the rules only uses maps for battles which are not an every session event. We all love these games and have been playing for 2 years
Yep you are right. Dan Wells has a better video on this topic. Guy has great advice but I think he is a bit disconnected from most players since he GMs in a style most people never experience.
Do it pro bono, and you can walk away at any time if you or they don't like it. Once you charge, they own you and can keep asking for changes and additions and accommodations etc. and you're more or less obligated. Regarding rate-setting: really understand what your hourly rate should be, by calculating -all- your costs and then markups for profit as well as for upgrades and materials you need to stay current or to satisfy evolving needs. There's few things worse than low-balling your fee and knowing you still have to do the job and you're losing money the whole time. Finally, will you still enjoy this if you turn it into work? Not everyone will.
I do not event want to imagine how much more stressful it would be for me not only to feel the pressure to provide some great GMing for my players, becouse I like them, but also becouse *they gave me money for it*. No, no, no pro GMing is not for me! :D
I think there should also be paid participants and paid audience of gm/dms. As a participant/audience member I've watched many many many many many many hours of Guys material. So where exactly do I send the bill?
I've considered doing GMing as a means of paying for RPG stuff. If not a means of teaching people games other then DnD. I like DnD. But, I want people to know other games are out there.
I tried payed sessions and honesty it ended up killing my creativity for the game. I might give it a shot again now that I’m more mature and more experienced and need a lot less prep time for things. My current groups all “pay” and by that I mean they donate me money or buy me things of Amazon to make our experience better. I ran a few sessions for them they had a blast and I more or less said hey guys some of these things aka vtt/server/notes/3d printing minis all cost money and it’s not required but if you wana help out with the cost I won’t say no. So they all are technically paying I guess
I have a friend who always tries to convince me to go pro. I think I'm a pretty good GM, but the idea of going pro feels like it would suck all the fun out of it for me. I like running games to escape the grind, not to enter back in.
You forgot a bunch of stuff that is also very important - like health insurance and taxes. Health insurance may be very important and in many countries tied to your job in some way. If you plan to quit your job - first investigate what happens to your medical insurance. Then taxes. If you stop paying taxes and continue same lifestyle as before - you may get selected for a tax review. Not paying taxes from income is a crime in many countries, so please think what happens to your earnings after taxes. They are trully inevitable, folks.
In most cases I find a professional is someone who gets paid at their profession, but with DMing I find it works a little differently - because there are many "paid" DMs who aren't really that professional. I find "paid DMs" are harmful to the hobby. They want to play dnd but also want to be paid to have fun. If you're able to have your cake and eat it then go ahead, but it's a little prohibitive to getting new players/DMs involved. Only rarely would I condone someone charging their players directly to play. If for example they wouldn't ordinarily be playing due to family constraints, but a group pleaded and begged for that person to give up his/her time to DM for them - well then it's not unreasonable for that group to say "We'll even pay you! Please!" To me a professional DM is someone like Matt or Brennan who lay on a professional product and get paid. They receive payment from advertisers and sponsors, but it's free for the consumer at the point of use. Everybody wins 🏆 I love professional DMS. I find paid DMs tedious.
Well, there was a time when I basically did everything you said (without getting paid for it) for several games and I can attest to that it becomes work after a while. Which is why I'm not being the biggest fan of paid GMing, because from my experience, it can easily become the equivalent of a day job, only that you can never charge the rates necessary to be paid accordingly. Now if you're just doing it to cut your expenses (and let's be honest, we GMs all buy that stuff anyways, no matter if we get paid for it), I'm all for it. But unless you're Ed Greenwood, Chris Perkins or Matt Mercer, making a living out of it might be a far-fetched goal.
This topic frustrates me. Everyone seems to fixated on the idea you are trying to make money. This hobby is expensive. Running quality games is not cheap. I charge money at the beginning of my campaigns in order to pay for my licenses, software, artwork, etc. All of the money I make goes to reimburse myself for the content I have purchased. I wish people would talk about this. I started to do this because when I would sit down at tables in game stores players expected me to just open my wallet and pay for everything. That needs to stop. DMs need to start asking their players to pay for the content that they are running. Players need to share in the cost.
So long story short, I already run 2-3 sessions on Foundry VTT for free. These people are not friends, or relatives, or anyone I gamed with in the past. I just want to play. Now I have found a... lack of reliability in this dynamic. Leading me to ask this... Is doing the paid GM thing prone to getting more reliable players as they paid for said session, or is it the same scenario? Hell I will not even go into what if I get paid for no shows or not. I really just want to run games, and have a bit of a burr in my butt over charging folks to game. Despite not hating the players, just the game in that regard.
I find there is considerable effort on behalf of a person if they're paying for a session rather just showing up for a session. But life is life and it always trumps gaming so missing sessions does happen.
Short of charging $50 a player I can't see how you could make it a full income on it's own after taxes ect. A nice side income yes with the reward of being enjoyable? Yes. I'm building up my resources currently so that I can be a pro GM mainly so that I can play on a weekly basis.
I know a guy who asks for a monthly 20$ fee. He runs 3 games a week, has a great table, sound and 3d prints minis. He does not however, know the rules and is constantly confrontational. Seems to take the Dm vs pcs mentality and is downright toxic at times. I have had convos with him about things I think should change. it's often met with nods and agreement only to revert to the exact same behaviours each week. Hes been at it for less than a year now and already assumes this is something he should be paid for. He doesnt prep, know the module inside and out or even do voices for the npcs. Sadly, where I live there are very few games other than one shots at local game stores that also charge for 3 hours of time. I'm building a VTT and starting my own game where i wont charge a dime for a hobby that is meant to be enjoyed among friends. The constant need to monetize a hobby is beyond me. I just dont get it.
Sorry to hear that about your local GM but this "The constant need to monetize a hobby is beyond me. I just dont get it." really? We pay actors millions to play make believe. We pay athletes millions to play childrens games or exercise. Musicians make money singing and dancing. These are all hobbies people monetized.
I was asked once, if I'll gm for money. But I refused. I want to do my gming my way. I want to have fun and I want to do the settings, plots and so on I feel happy with. Since I'm working on a very special homebrew for the subsubsubgenre of scifi near future racer, I guess I would have less time to do that. And that, I would utterly regret.
paid dm commisions come and go for me. my market is even more niche as I target people who likes non mainstream trpg and wants to find a GM who can run them.
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*Thanks for watching!* Is there anything I missed? What else do you need to know before becoming a Pro GM?
Get your tickets to my table for D&D in a Castle now! It'll be an experience you won't forget!
Details here: bit.ly/3bh9dmp
Find each chapter of the video easily by clicking on the timestamps in the description.
Hey Guy!
I'm a long time fan of your work and would love to discuss with you an opportunity to adapt DnD style storytelling to Web3. Is that something that would interesting you? If so, what is the best channel to reach you?
I've been running paid games for three years now, mostly advertising on Roll20, StartPlaying and facebook groups. Mostly D&D, some Alien RPG and Forbidden Lands. It has mostly been a very fun and rewarding (financially too) experience. The advice I would give is:
1. Carefully interview and screen players before the game, even before session zero. Just because a player is willing to pay doesn't mean they are a good fit for you or for the other players.
2. Be very upfront that even though it's a paid game I am the DM and there will be no favouritism or "going easy" just because the players are paying.
3. Post a clear campaign primer and character creation guidelines for everyone to see before they decide whether to join or not.
4. You really do NOT need miniatures, music, etc. for a great paid game. I've run paid sessions ($15 per player per session) with pure theater of the mind and the players really enjoyed it. What you need is consistency, good pacing, listening and communicating with the players, and being "on" 100% of the time - no phoning in a session!
In regards to rule #1. Would you say its probably easier to find pre-estabolished player groups who've already weeded out the problem players?
@@berserkape1014 No, I've never found any group like that. But what worked really well was couples. I've had a few couples in my games and it was great (assuming they made it on time after putting the kids to bed).
@@razorboy251 Last time I DMed for a couple. They got a divorce and ended my game. But yeah generally people who are orderly enough to have kids are good enough to play games without problems.
Without prying into your personal finances, is it something you can make a living wage from and how long does it take to build up reliable income? I'm genuinely considering doing this as a business but I don't want to step into something unreliable or underpaid
@@Metal-Spark oh heavens no, I'd have to run several sessions each DAY to make even close to my day job, but as a side hustle to pay for my hobbies it's great.
I GM professionally full-time using the StartPlaying platform. These are generally good guidelines. I have a code of conduct and terms of service that all newcomers to my table have to sign in order to protect myself and the other players at the table and make sure everyone is on the same page. I'd consider this sort of thing vital when providing a service like this. Also use safety tools-for real, people, use safety tools.
how does one even start pro GMing in the first place?
"safety tools" ?
@@Zeithri stuff like a consent sheet, placing lines and veils, things like that
@@Zeithri Make sure the pencils aren't too sharp, protect against paper cuts and, whatever you do, don't let them swallow the minis.
@@shawnwolf5961 A better question might be " How do you justify me paying you to run the game? How do I know it's worth it/ I'm going to get my money's worth?"
Is there a test you take?
I started DMing for a Community Center late last year (hourly wage). It's a challenge because on top of everything you've listed, I'm also running for kids age 9-14, so you have to factor that in as well. They've paid the community center and the community center pays me, so I can't just boot a problem player out. It is definitely fun and rewarding though.
Maybe see about setting up a sort of social contract with players so if they become to much of a problem player and won't work to be better you can remove them.
I'm in agreement with the above.
Social contract is everything. I am also of the view that as a GM, we should serve the majority of players - if one player is being disruptive, being a bully, repeatedly interrupting the flow of the game, they are upsetting EVERYONE'S play. That should be more than justifiable reason for kicking that problem player after giving them a few warnings
Fortunately, I have the support of the event coordinator, so I can go to them and they will address it. Plus, they are 11 year old boys (no females have joined so far). I throw on my "Dad Voice", and they usually settle down pretty quick.
@@DougCoughler Which you can't do with adult players - or at least not as effectively. So maybe it's a perk after all :D
Good for you man! Sounds like a wonderful thing you're doing for those kids!
I started DMing for local kids in my town around... 2 years ago now? And just this year got a physical studio to run games out of! It's different from what I run for my friends, not least because they're all so young, but it's been the best job I've ever had. We have a website now and everything; it's really been taking off!!
That's wonderful! I'm a pro DM running games for adults online, but planning to expand to DMing for kids/families. Mind sharing a link to your site?
@Caitlyn Mckay - I'm curious what the insurance demands for something like this would be. Things tend to get a bit stringent when you are providing a service that caters to children. How do you navigate that?
@@tireddm This 'Inzü-Rants' thou speaketh of is a foul creature summoned by the Red Wizards of Thay. It Is Known.
fastest click in the west! will soon be running my first dnd game in an official yearly event in my country, and your channel helped me a lot
I was hired by a local game store to run games for anyone who happened to come in. I got paid $11.00 and hour by the store. I was NOT paid by the players, and they were NOT my friends. I had a full table of 7 players and the game ran for 3-4 hours once a week.
I am part of a group of 4 dms each with our own campaign; players can pay per session on a Pay What You Want basis, with no obligation. The whole group are friends and it doesn't feel like being paid to entertain, but rather being appreciated for the work that goes into DMing.
This is what I would rather do if I were to want money from the time I spend planning my sessions!
Might give it a go someday, thanks for sharing!
This is how it should be. When money gets into creative endeavors it tends to ruin the creative spirit of the artist. This less formal arrangement is likely to be much more rewarding than the "job" that Guy is describing.
So I've been a full-time pro DM in Namibia for 2 months now, since quitting my soul-crushing bank job. I charge 300 Rand (~20USD) per month for a weekly 4h game. It's been fantastic. I knew nothing about D&D in the beginning of last year. I've learned a lot, and still am. But players are having fun and so am I. Here's some basic things I do:
- Monthly payment upfront, regardless of showing up. Free session, zero, then 50 bucks a session if the first month is not full. If I can't make it, 50 bucks refund per session. I print character sheets and keep them there.
- Session begins when the players who are present decide. It ends 4 hours later, give or take 30 minutes. One 15-minute break in the middle, and max two tiny 2-minute short breaks (but usually none).
- Food and drink allowed, snacks for the party earns inspiration.
- Sharing session notes before the session earns inspiration.
- I run modules, mainly WD:DH, supplemented with AI, WD:DMM adding stuff from DMsGuild and Alexandrian, and my own tidbits. Also currently working on a flowy, streamlined, grand mega Waterdeep complilation campaign book which I'm not sure how I'd release or if it's even legal. It's mainly for me anyway.
- I use FoundryVTT with many modules, Winamp for sound (many owned videogame OSTs, Tabletop Audio, other free stuff online), smart bulbs for atmosphere, and a wall-mounted 4K screen.
- I own all D&D Beyond content, to which all players have access as soon as they join a campaign.
- I run 5 weekly games at 18:00-22:00 for adults, and have just started running afternoon games at a high school.
- Group size: 4-6. 3 is too little income; 7 is too chaotic.
- If you're in 2 of my campaigns, subsequent monthly fee is at a 33% discount.
- I sell dice and have just started making T-shirts.
If you guys have any questions, hit me up here. I'd be happy to answer them.
How do you deal with problem players?
@@dumplings_guy7303 I vet my players as much as I can, but if something does happen I'd text them addressing the issue. In session zero I also tell everyone that there's a three strikes policy, but depending on the situation it might be tighter. A text takes care of the problem usually though.
I asked one player who often came tipsy and disruptive to not drink, and explained that she was ruining the other players' fun. She understood, and said that if need be she can leave the campaign if need be.
Another player was not showing up on time, like ever. I kept telling him that he's hurting the other players by doing this, until eventually he just stopped showing up. After 2 absences I removed him from the group and we never heard from him again.
I charge $5 per player prepaid in advance and only 5 players. I use the money for D&D supplies, but more importantly the money provided me a sense of urgency to be a better DM or provide a better story/game experience and the players get unlimited excess to the full D&D Beyond digital library. My sessions are on Sunday 12-1ish we cook dinner too as a group game lasts till 6-9pm
Bottom line, charge money but don’t do it for the money. The money is used as a collective respect, it represents each person’s time and reminds us of our value.
A game players pay for, they respect more, and show up for.
Great topic! Another thing to consider when quitting your day job for this is taxation. The government might want to get a slice of that pie if it's considered professional
I pay taxes on my earnings, only fair. I still enjoy the rest of these TTRPGs spoils, too. AND I choose my hours. AND I get to cancel / quit / reschedule whenever I want, as long as I warn and talk to my players. Anything else you feel you wanna ask about ? (NOTE: unless you're ready to FULLY get committed to this, the earnings will NEVER replace your day job's and it can be pretty time-consuming too so unless you have a PASSION for it, I'd say skip it. Thanks and all the best !)
I'm thinking of starting a service where I gm for children, as a hybrid babysitting ans creative exploration setup. The formula changes a bit, but is still similar in many ways
What do you do if the kids get bored and run off? Also, doesn't this require a certain number of players? I guess it depends on the system, and even D&D can be adapted for 1-2 players... but it's not designed for that, and you're probably gonna find yourself in that situation more often if you try to adapt it to when parents want to go and do something. Might take a bit of legwork.
I have never paid or been paid for gaming. I think it’s an interesting concept. Luckily our gaming group has 6-7 GMs/DMs.
Thanks for the information
Great informational video. Lots to consider before ever heading down that road.
I've never attempted paid DMing, nor do I intend to, but I found this an interesting video nonetheless.
Honestly, I think if all paid DMs actually did all (or at least, the majority of) the stuff you mentioned in this video, I probably wouldn't mind joining a paid campaign.
well i have a few spots open if you wanna exchange discords?
I have a specific mentality about "being a pro __". I don't want to be a professional, but I want to be the best I can. And if I can make a bit of money, that's nice. But the enjoyment and improvement must prevail to me
Hey Guy ide really be interested to see a video about what to expect or whats expected of players at a paid game in comparion to a regular game, just a video idea that could tie neatly to this one
All good and useful. I'd never consider charging anyone actual money for me to run a game; same goes for my friends who also run games. We do it because we love being the DM, we love the prep work. We get "paid" at the table, by everyone else bringing the snacks / drinks, maybe providing a venue, a ride to and from, etc. The actual costs incurred for content, are NOT always tied to the DM; basically players might own a book or a few depending on how much enjoyment they get from hardcopy, then I've got two friends who have purchased a lot of content on DnD Beyond and they can share that with whoever is the DM, for use by everyone in that campaign.
That can be my life saving route (in the war situation going) and can bring me smth to live on. Im trying to improve my quality as best as i can. Hope i could achieve it.
My problem with paid GMing is that you are changing the relatonship from a friendship to an employee/employer relationship.
Not always. I have a paid gm of 2 years and we all have a great time and are very friendly with eachother. The key is that we respect his time and no one tries to not pay.
Remember if you donr pay your DM then they are paying for the privilege of running a game for you. The DM is often the one paying for books, minis, online tools, maps, kickstarters etc. I DM for free with my group and I probably spend about £40 a month on supplies, books and other things I mentioned. Money is still being spent to give everyone a good time its just all the DMs money. I am thinking of running a public game at my local game store and if it gets popular I might suggest a £2 tip from each player. This wouldn't make me money but it should cover expenses.
I DM, and have for many years now been using 100% resources paid for by a couple of my players (who also DM their own games, but happen to purchase shareable content). So all it costs me is my prep time, which I'm happy to share for free. DnD Beyond has made it super-simple, for one person to bank-roll the group.
Just the question I need an answer to 😂
As always👍
Thank you very much!🌺
Definitely on my Bucket List to do D&D in a Castle someday!
Whatever happened to the good old "theater of the mind" format? I frankly hate minis, tokens, maps, etc. Minis take time to set up, move around, and turn a RP game into a wargame. I tried it several times and hated using it, so I reverted back to not using them. The same goes with maps as I want my PCs to not know where every room is, or even the layout of the structure so they can meta game and realize that that darkened area unseen obvious has a hidden door somewhere that needs to be found, or exploring every inch of the map/board because they know it's there, being represented right in front of them and not how they would see it in character at the time. I have opted for a simple large whiteboard where I draw the map and features on it as they see it, not in its entirety. Do you have a blueprint layout of every building or location that you go to? Or do you just see what you see and miss a lot of areas because you didn't go down them or weren't able to access them?
TotM is still definitely a thing across a lot of tables nowadays. I find using minis and physical maps/props to be the most engaging/exciting when used for really big, epic battles such as boss fights. There's just something about seeing my character represented in a physical form standing next to my companions and enemies that enhances my enjoyment of the game.
With that said, I also agree that way too many people rely heavily on maps and tokens without realizing that TotM is very often *better* than this in many situations. When you go by TotM, it allows everyone to picture the scene and fill in the blanks themselves, even if they don't realize that's what they're actually doing in the moment, and what they see in their imaginations is probably more interesting than what could be depicted on a map. For instance, my group just recently ran a heist in a lord's manor totally in TotM, and I'd wager it was WAY more fun than if our DM had brought up a shoddy looking basic floorplan map in roll20.
@@DirkMcThermot as another DM once stated, maps can often be a disappointment to see and less interesting than you can imagine in your own head. It's part of why I went with a whiteboard as well dealing with distances. There are no exact distances. If they ask me how far something away is I tell them the rough estimate but in combat, I simply tell them that they are either in range, out of range, or in range with a disadvantage.
It really depends on the GM and the players.
I for one play with players that like to strategice and do crazy plays - but that can become a bit meaningless if you can basically teleport in a fight because no one is tracking where everything is. And I will be honest, I don't have the capacity to remember all of it either. Playing over Discord and using the screenshare-function there for maps, it gets annoying if even one player has trouble looking at it.
That being said - I only offer maps for combat and maybe large areas (like a regional or city map). But I free-ball a lot of it, too, so I couldn't pinpoint the blacksmith of the city to an exact location, just the general area/part of the city.
And obviously, I only offer the players what they can actually see. For example, when my group went into a dungeon for the first time, they had to draw the map themselves until they found one deep within. Only then I offered them the map I used. And I learned that they did not have much fun doing it this way, so in my next dungeon, I will try to come up with something else.
@@ottokarl5427 for complex battles I have a binder with maps on my end in plastic sheet protectors and use a dry erase marker to keep track of movements.
I’ve thought about many of these questions, especially the absentee policy. My guess is once you’ve done this a while and you’re really good, demand goes up, you can command a better fee, and are likely able to charge people up front.
I imagine that like any passion project you have to work really hard for little or no money to get where you want to be. And where you wind up will largely come down to talent, work ethic and no small amount of luck.
Run a fast, low-crunch, OSR West Marches game. Got it. :D
I would love to ve a profession GM.
I would settle just to have a group to GM.
I miss playing. Finding players is hard though.
Something that was universally given in friendship and was free, is now not, for some people. Why would I be happy about that? To me, it is like paying someone to treat you like a friend would. No thanks. And yes, I DM for free.
@Temeraire That is a well reasoned argument. I think your concert analogy fails because in the analogy, ALL concerts used to be free and now some are not. So things used to better and now they are not. But whatever. To each their own. There are much more important things to worry about.
I am looking into going pro eventually. I am still growing my skills as a GM. I have a list of strengths and shortcomings I see in my personal GM playstyle. I offer a criticism card to my players after every session to give me an idea of what I can improve upon. Unfortunately I think I'm a harder critic on myself then my players.
If you decide to keep discussing the Pro GM then let me ask your opinion. From what I can tell there are hundreds of D&D DMs out there that are pro. It's almost like a flood. Do you think by becoming much more versatile in the games I can run that there would be more of a demand?
I pay $30 a person to go to the movies for 2 hours. $20 for 4 hours of d&d I am more than down for.
D&D in a Castle is my dream vacation 😩 hopefully I can save up enough money before my next big birthday or anniversary and make it an event 😁
I professionally GM full time now. I focus primarily on in person gaming, though I have some ongoing online games as well. I find clients primarily through StartPlaying.Games and word of mouth, and luckily I live near an area with lots of nerds with disposable income. I have corporate clients, a school that hired me for an afterschool D&D program, and private clients, and worked for GDC earlier this year. I strive to provide a high tier experience, and charge a commiserate rate. I make $330-$425 US per in person session, and $200-$300 US per online session. I am an exception to the general trend though, and the challenges Guy lays out are spot on. Still, despite these challenges I think there is far more opportunity for pro GMing to grow and be more profitable for more people.
I've been a pro DM for over 5 years now, which is longer than the term Pro DM was commonly used on the internet. A lot of what Guy says here is sound advice, but if you're really interested in doing this I'd encourage you to try different things and find out what works for you. Like I said, a lot of Guy's advice is sound, but I wouldn't take it all as gospel. SOME of what Guy says I'd argue is just his opinion.
I'll give you an example... In his opinion, you need to have an encyclopedic level of knowledge about the rules and adventures you are running, because, I assume, if he was paying that's probably an expectation he'd have. But this is not a universal fact that all clients will expect of you, nor is it somehow a "job requirement". It is a nice plus, sure, but in my experience, clients will absolutely cut you some slack and treat you like a human being rather than a machine they expect to memorize all of the thousands of rules in this game. I have well over 60 clients and am concurrently running over a dozen different games every week, in different editions/systems and adventures, which means sometimes I do get my wires crossed. My clients know this and they don't give me a hard time at all for not having 100% of the adventure or rules memorized inside and out (besides, I'd argue that's the job of the VTT I pay for to memorize that stuff for me). And I charge a premium rate (higher than the rates Guy says in this video) and consistently get 5-star reviews. I've never had someone complain that I didn't know the material well enough, despite regularly saying "I'm not sure, let's look it up".
You do need to provide your clients with a higher quality of service and entertainment than a hobbyist DM, but I would disagree that you need to somehow develop superhuman levels of memorization powers to do it. At the end of the day, that stuff is secondary to giving them a good time.
One thing I would add to his list of things you should know before going in... If you're running for multiple groups, I'd encourage you to avoid running the same adventure for two or more groups concurrently if possible. You'd think "well, running the same adventure means less prep work for me, right?" but in practice, it actually requires more meticulous note-taking so as to keep track of which group did what.
I’m considering charging a player entry fee, since I have to do a lot of world building to include a new character.
I was calculating this sometime last year.. and for it to be economically viable I would have to run 5, 4 hour sessions per week at €25 per session. and only spend 4 hours to prepare for every session otherwise I would be "losing" money :P So thats what being a pro is. work all day and play all night.
did you try startplaying - sounds like a good online base but i cant find anything about it on youtube ( maybe because of the name )
When travel was less complicated, I played the itinerant GM for willing hosts - fellow Forever GMs - in certain destinations, mainly places where I already have a connection or some association, so it's not a business model, per se, but an exchange of gifts? Spares me the lugging of all the figurines and diorama kit where the host is that fellow GM - otherwise it's 2D representations plus Theatre of the Mind. I don't think taking money directly for gamemastering suits me, not unless in a capacity similar to that described just previously by Doug Coughler.
Still running Spelljammer and are you editing any of it?
A lot of these things you say you NEEED are not true. There is so much GMs are forgiven for. Players rarely need GMs to be perfect and know all. I pay a gm for an ffg game and he barely knows the rules only uses maps for battles which are not an every session event. We all love these games and have been playing for 2 years
While I am glad for you, fellow gamer, please keep in mind - not everyone has your luck in people. For them, I believe Guy's advice is spot-on. =)
@@PurrsPlace if you have toxic players. Drop em
@@miguelsuarez-solis5027 Excellent advice! =)
Yep you are right. Dan Wells has a better video on this topic. Guy has great advice but I think he is a bit disconnected from most players since he GMs in a style most people never experience.
Is that Lone Wolf art in the frame?
Do it pro bono, and you can walk away at any time if you or they don't like it. Once you charge, they own you and can keep asking for changes and additions and accommodations etc. and you're more or less obligated. Regarding rate-setting: really understand what your hourly rate should be, by calculating -all- your costs and then markups for profit as well as for upgrades and materials you need to stay current or to satisfy evolving needs. There's few things worse than low-balling your fee and knowing you still have to do the job and you're losing money the whole time. Finally, will you still enjoy this if you turn it into work? Not everyone will.
I do not event want to imagine how much more stressful it would be for me not only to feel the pressure to provide some great GMing for my players, becouse I like them, but also becouse *they gave me money for it*.
No, no, no pro GMing is not for me! :D
i thought you said you would never open the sell jamer book again
Why do you need minis? You can play just fine without minis, tokens, battlemaps, etc.
I think there should also be paid participants and paid audience of gm/dms. As a participant/audience member I've watched many many many many many many hours of Guys material. So where exactly do I send the bill?
I've considered doing GMing as a means of paying for RPG stuff. If not a means of teaching people games other then DnD. I like DnD. But, I want people to know other games are out there.
I tried payed sessions and honesty it ended up killing my creativity for the game. I might give it a shot again now that I’m more mature and more experienced and need a lot less prep time for things. My current groups all “pay” and by that I mean they donate me money or buy me things of Amazon to make our experience better. I ran a few sessions for them they had a blast and I more or less said hey guys some of these things aka vtt/server/notes/3d printing minis all cost money and it’s not required but if you wana help out with the cost I won’t say no. So they all are technically paying I guess
I have a friend who always tries to convince me to go pro. I think I'm a pretty good GM, but the idea of going pro feels like it would suck all the fun out of it for me. I like running games to escape the grind, not to enter back in.
You forgot a bunch of stuff that is also very important - like health insurance and taxes. Health insurance may be very important and in many countries tied to your job in some way. If you plan to quit your job - first investigate what happens to your medical insurance.
Then taxes. If you stop paying taxes and continue same lifestyle as before - you may get selected for a tax review. Not paying taxes from income is a crime in many countries, so please think what happens to your earnings after taxes. They are trully inevitable, folks.
In most cases I find a professional is someone who gets paid at their profession, but with DMing I find it works a little differently - because there are many "paid" DMs who aren't really that professional.
I find "paid DMs" are harmful to the hobby. They want to play dnd but also want to be paid to have fun. If you're able to have your cake and eat it then go ahead, but it's a little prohibitive to getting new players/DMs involved.
Only rarely would I condone someone charging their players directly to play.
If for example they wouldn't ordinarily be playing due to family constraints, but a group pleaded and begged for that person to give up his/her time to DM for them - well then it's not unreasonable for that group to say "We'll even pay you! Please!"
To me a professional DM is someone like Matt or Brennan who lay on a professional product and get paid. They receive payment from advertisers and sponsors, but it's free for the consumer at the point of use.
Everybody wins 🏆
I love professional DMS. I find paid DMs tedious.
Well, there was a time when I basically did everything you said (without getting paid for it) for several games and I can attest to that it becomes work after a while. Which is why I'm not being the biggest fan of paid GMing, because from my experience, it can easily become the equivalent of a day job, only that you can never charge the rates necessary to be paid accordingly. Now if you're just doing it to cut your expenses (and let's be honest, we GMs all buy that stuff anyways, no matter if we get paid for it), I'm all for it. But unless you're Ed Greenwood, Chris Perkins or Matt Mercer, making a living out of it might be a far-fetched goal.
This topic frustrates me. Everyone seems to fixated on the idea you are trying to make money. This hobby is expensive. Running quality games is not cheap. I charge money at the beginning of my campaigns in order to pay for my licenses, software, artwork, etc. All of the money I make goes to reimburse myself for the content I have purchased. I wish people would talk about this. I started to do this because when I would sit down at tables in game stores players expected me to just open my wallet and pay for everything. That needs to stop. DMs need to start asking their players to pay for the content that they are running. Players need to share in the cost.
Yeah I think everyone comes in at the "Living Wage" point and it's a very individual thing that they never define.
So long story short, I already run 2-3 sessions on Foundry VTT for free. These people are not friends, or relatives, or anyone I gamed with in the past. I just want to play. Now I have found a... lack of reliability in this dynamic. Leading me to ask this... Is doing the paid GM thing prone to getting more reliable players as they paid for said session, or is it the same scenario? Hell I will not even go into what if I get paid for no shows or not. I really just want to run games, and have a bit of a burr in my butt over charging folks to game. Despite not hating the players, just the game in that regard.
I find there is considerable effort on behalf of a person if they're paying for a session rather just showing up for a session. But life is life and it always trumps gaming so missing sessions does happen.
Short of charging $50 a player I can't see how you could make it a full income on it's own after taxes ect. A nice side income yes with the reward of being enjoyable? Yes.
I'm building up my resources currently so that I can be a pro GM mainly so that I can play on a weekly basis.
What? How does one become this mythical paid GM?
I know a guy who asks for a monthly 20$ fee. He runs 3 games a week, has a great table, sound and 3d prints minis. He does not however, know the rules and is constantly confrontational. Seems to take the Dm vs pcs mentality and is downright toxic at times.
I have had convos with him about things I think should change. it's often met with nods and agreement only to revert to the exact same behaviours each week.
Hes been at it for less than a year now and already assumes this is something he should be paid for. He doesnt prep, know the module inside and out or even do voices for the npcs.
Sadly, where I live there are very few games other than one shots at local game stores that also charge for 3 hours of time.
I'm building a VTT and starting my own game where i wont charge a dime for a hobby that is meant to be enjoyed among friends. The constant need to monetize a hobby is beyond me. I just dont get it.
Sorry to hear that about your local GM but this "The constant need to monetize a hobby is beyond me. I just dont get it." really? We pay actors millions to play make believe. We pay athletes millions to play childrens games or exercise. Musicians make money singing and dancing. These are all hobbies people monetized.
I was asked once, if I'll gm for money. But I refused. I want to do my gming my way. I want to have fun and I want to do the settings, plots and so on I feel happy with. Since I'm working on a very special homebrew for the subsubsubgenre of scifi near future racer, I guess I would have less time to do that. And that, I would utterly regret.
Thanks but I pass. I love to be a GM but I love it so much that I want to keep it as a hobby that fills my heart and those of my players.
👍
I would never ruin my favorite hobby by doing it professionally. Sorry Guy 🤗
yeah, i`m going to run games in order to gain dollars, since i live on a pretty poor country that could level out my income
Time equals money. How much is your time worth
The honest question to that would probably be: More than prospective players would be willing to pay for.
I have no desire to be a pro dm. I have much more desire to write campaigns that peo dms will buy and run
paid dm commisions come and go for me. my market is even more niche as I target people who likes non mainstream trpg and wants to find a GM who can run them.
seriously, you lost me at "you're going to have to print minis". Say what, now ?
Is that blue hair there I'm looking at?
Long answer: it's complicated
Short answer: No, you shound't
jokes aside I enjoy being a GM but making it a job would feel a bit awkard idk
Am I in the right channel? Is this shadiversity?
you all are getting paid to gm, I can't gm for free
Pro gming is bad for the hobby, I really hope this will never catch on
Capitalism is amazing. You are all living in wonderful times!