If you ever turn your passion into a career, be prepared for the worst: the worst being you lose the love for your passion. It's always good to have a skill for anything like cooking or DMing but it is always a tragedy when that skill you love just becomes...that. A skill.
Had a professional gm who WAS a friend. Dude had a lot of issues going on in his life but we all understood. He wasn’t preparing for games as the year(s) went on and started taking things out on me in game and out of it for being the only one speaking up and trying to make sure he was okay. Was the only person at the time that was in two of his paid games and had to drop out of both. Dude literally brought his roommate in one game and I had to delete my entire story focus cause his character would leave the party if he found out. Paid dm refused to do anything about this for months
I professionally DM for a special needs montessori school, focusing on team work, creative thinking, and developing interpersonal relationships. It's only one of the several streams of income I have, but it is definitely fulfilling to help these kids develop through gaming.
My son is on the autism spectrum, and once I got him over the anxiety of choice paralysis, etc (I use Shadowdark RPG) It has been a great experience for him. His confidence is sky high and to see that face is immeasurably awesome 💜
DMing for money has a different vibe. For me I always felt like there was more pressure, compared to playing for fun with close friends. I’ve been DMing professionally on and off for a few years, and I’d love to get to the point where I can DM for any group, paid or not, and still have fun and be relaxed. This will take me some time to build more DM experience points, but one day I hope to go full pro, and you can too whoever you are! Work on those calm-positive-leadership skills and master your improv skills ;D. I try to pretend that I’m NOT getting paid even though I am, to make the game feel more relaxed and authentic. But boy oh boy, planning multiple sessions per week is REALLY draining on the mind engine, that’s where light-weight session prep and great improv skills come in really handy. Great video! Good luck adventurers!❤
I run two paid games online right now and my home game for friends. You definitely hit the nail on the head with some of your points. There have been times when the paid games have stressed me out, but typically they're a pretty smooth affair. I've definitely had special requests for things in game and bristled at that, since it goes against my philosophy as a GM. There's definitely a space for it, since my paid games are usually filled with people that wouldn't play if they didn't have that option.
I run 3 games, two on Sundays that are streamed, and one at a local library every other Saturday. I've had people say that I should charge to run games for people, but I could never. The idea of meshing my favorite hobby and money makes me feel like I would hate it since I would be basing my peformance not against my own expectations, but against the monetary expectations of the players. I appreciate this video and your insight into why I'm glad I've never made that leap.
I listened to this on my way to one of my paid sessions and I can definitely see how it’s not great as a primary revenue stream. I work full time and play in 2 home games alternating dming and playing with a roommate. The home games are definitely relaxing and more laidback while my pro games I’m still having fun but definitely feel a little bit more of my customer service experience showing through. I still love it and feel like it’s a symbiotic relationship for my local gaming community.
I've been a pro-DM for 3 and a bit years and grown a whole business around it... and I love it. I found it so challenging to get into D&D and it was only when I found out I could pay for the service did I finally get to play in a welcoming, consistent and engaging ongoing campaign. As a business, my team and I also specialise in introducing new players to D&D. This again was another sore spot for me getting into the hobby, so I'm beyond happy to offer that service and hopefully make it easier for people to try D&D (or other ttrpgs) in a safe and inclusive space. I guess my whole schtick is that I just want to provide what I couldn't find back when I started playing. And I'm fervently aware that what I/we do isn't for everyone, and that's a.ok
Really good advice. I don't dm professionally, but one thing that has helped me a lot, especially when running games with people I don't know, has been that I used to run workshops professionally. So if you want to be a professional DM it might be worth reading up on workshop facilitation (which also includes how to navigate disruptive participants)
@@dadapotok good question. I've actually had training in workshop facilitation so the books I've read have been bonds like "Thinkertoys" and "The Universal Traveler" that are more focused on activities you can run in a workshop.
Keeping it real. Fantabulous video Ben! Great to hear some real numbers. And yes, when your hobby becomes a job, it's no longer a hobby. And a hobby should be fun. If it's no longer fun, then its a job.
Appreciate this insight! I've only been DMing for a few years, starting early in the pandemic for friends, and due to being the forever DM, I've gone into playing with paid DMs for the last year or so just so I could get to be a player, and could fit another game into my schedule (as long as I wasn't prepping!). The current campaign I'm playing in this evening in fact is someone who is now doing it full time. As a DM, I sometimes wonder if I could ever really get into the paid DMing space and the thing that has kept me from it is exactly the thing you described here -- turning the passion of a thing you love into work is a rough go and I know numerous folks who have done that with other things they loved/were good at.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As a professional DM myself, I can relate to some of your experience. I can tell you, running online makes a big difference, though the financial side is still a tough balancing act! Great vid, thanks.
Glad you did what was right for you to save your love of the game (especially since we got Ghostfire Gaming/Grim Hollow out of it) but I would love to see you guys actually run a Grim Hollow one-shot on the channel with some of the sub-classes/transformations, or your own variant rules to show a dark fantasy game in play. Great video and looking forward to the next one!
Waiting to get to the end of the video for full comments, but seeing that clip of you "prepping a game", interesting in what tools you use to prep games, and how you personally go about it. Always like to learn from others
My main tool is OneNote, which breaks notes down into notebooks, folders and pages. A notebook might be an entire dungeon, region or city. A folder might contain all the info on a floor of the dungeon or district of a city. A page might describe a dungeon room, an encounter, or a city location such as a tavern, shop, or NPC's home. During sessions I can then click through the pages as the party venture through the dungeon.
I use OneNote too, but in a slightly different way. Folders end up being regions for me, with pages being rooms/buildings. The recent subpage options going down two levels is a real help with getting that step by step granularity if you need it@@GhostfireGaming
Been a pro-GM for a few months now. I enjoy the work greatly! It definitely hasn't felt like I was having less fun although I do get burnt out. To counter that I have 1 weekend a month where I do nothing RPG-related and just chill. Personally, I don't like DnD and I don't run it anymore. It's extremely prep heavy and you always have to account for broken builds your players have etc... I don't really have problems like that in the games I run now because they are really rules-light and focus more on storytelling running stuff like OSR and PBTA have been great for me and fit my style of GM-ing. Because I spend less time on prep, I can learn and run more systems and also dedicate time to other side-gigs like commission painting and 3D printing etc... It's definitely not a super wise decision to not run DnD if I want to make money, but luckily for me, I have managed to scrounge up a player base of people willing to try other games. I mostly run one-shots with pre-gen characters now which seem to fit what my clientele need. Taster sessions for them to try new systems without too much pressure. I live in a very fast-paced big city and it's not realistic to expect 5 players to come every week without cancellations here and there so this model works for me in that aspect too. Would love to hear how other paid GMs counter last-minute cancellations.
I remember when you opened up about this topic on the GG Discord, and it's as insightful now as it was then. I'm about to start running my first paid game next month, so this was really helpful. Thanks so much for sharing, Ben!
I played as a player for a professional dm for about a year. At the begining i thought it was a very cool idea. But after a year being with his group i saw a lot of downsides. Especially regarding group cohesion and problematic players. By the end of the year he also took more and more groups and we saw a sharp decline in the quality of our games. At the end we as a group decided to disband. For it to be worth it for both as a player receiving a good service and as a dm getting paid sufficiently. Prices should be much higher and most people probably wont pay them. Now i am running a free game as a dm myself. That was the solution for me 😀
It really depends on your personnel situation. I'm a stay at home dad/homemaker and that isn't a full time job anymore now that my daughter is older. However our family dynamic is much less stressful if at least one of us is driving the kid to school, doing pick ups and doing the cooking. So being a Pro DM is great to make some money doing what I love but I'm not making tons of money. I was reluctant at first because I was afraid it might ruin the hobby I love but actually I enjoy my paid games because I forces me to up my game skills. Also I've been blessed with a great of players who are nice and respectful.
Excellent video and great insights! Personally, I have no beef against paid DMs. If you can make money doing what you love, more power to ya! Funny thing... whenever I hear people say that "everyone should be able to make a living doing something they enjoy", I used to laugh and say "no one is going to pay me to read comics and play video games (or D&D)". ...but times have changed and now you CAN make a living doing those things! LOL!
Makes sense. As domeone who has paid to play games, I have appreciated the effort most of the DMs put into it, but I usully felt like I was sitting around the table with someone's customers, never a group of friends playing a game. These were all online experiences, which adds to the disassociation with the group. There are times in which I wonder if I could do it. I suspect I would struggle, financially, as well as professionally. I currently do not think my DM skills merit someone's cash.
"sitting around the table with someone's customers, never a group of friends playing a game" exactly this. Playing with "customers" (you probably dont know) and paying a GM (that you probably dont know) sounds like zero fun to me.
Great video, nice to hear from someone who stepped away. I personally would never pay for a DM, but I do believe they are a valid service in the hobby. The age old fact is that groups can struggle to get a DM, and so if people want someone else to come in an DM for them, that's perfectly legitimate. And that's coming from someone who was always thrust behind the screen for their friends DnD games as a teenager
@@TheInvadernick agreed. My issue is with DMs who charge just to be in their games. You hear the stories of DMs posting a game on roll20 and then it's "$10 a session". That's where it feels murky for me. Because that's not someone hiring a DM, that's a DM exploiting players (in my book)
@@thewelshdm I don't see the distinction. If they charge, they are a paid DM. Players who want to make sure they can be in a group can go for it. Most do not.
For me the distinction is the direction of things. A pro DM offering services gets approached by a group on the whole who wants a paid DM. Versus a DM mandating that their games must be paid entry, where often people are coming seperatly and not as an initial group. It feels inherently different to me. But we can disagree@@hawkname1234
I pay to GM! Books, miniatures, VTT subscriptions… I don’t have the heart to ask my friends for a few coins now and then. And this is why I’m an amateur in its truest sense of the word: a love for the game.
I'm slowly growing my client base with paid games, and one of my concerns is this very thing, so I'm trying to make room for it. Sundays will only ever be game day for my friend group, the campaigns I run for them will not be the same as the campaigns I run professionally, and once I get more established, I hope to run more indie games so I can save my 5E stuff for my group since that's the system that appeals to them more as a whole... barring some smooth talking to get one player to stretch her limbs, and get another player to enjoy games that don't have a bunch of splat books. I think I'm at a state where I have enough inspiration to go pro for awhile, so here's hoping things work out between this and my other ambitions!
Nice to see that you run other systems! One of the ways I get around this problem is by using my friend group as a test bed to practice running the new stuff. It helps me get some experience and the sessions often bring up rules I may have overlooked or commonly asked questions by players so I find them incredibly useful.
@@TheInvadernick I have one friend that is fairly hard-core towards the 5e rules sets, the thing that would pull her away is that her loyalty to Critical Role is greater than her nostalgia for D&D, so with my home group, I'll probably have an easy time running Candela Obscura or Daggerheart. Downside though, if Daggerheart doesn't have enough system mastery, it means it won't capture the attention of my more min-maxy player (who's also the most assertive player of the group). Most of the others are just happy to do whatever as long as it's adventure games with friends, but these two are the most vocal. I've been a bit of a Kickstarter addict, so I have more RPG's than I know what to do with, never mind the sheer number of 5E systems/settings/variants I've collected from crowdfunding sources. So plenty of room there, but DAMN I want to stretch my wings and play these other games.
@@TheInvadernick Thankfully, Savage Worlds will likely be my saving grace, that and probably Spire, seems Spire has a number of players eager to play, but not enough DM's eager to run. So I need to get reading.
@@TheInvadernick It's a little difficult, I have one player who has a hard time with rules, they know 5e because the powers of nostalgia granted them the will to study and get familiar with said rules. So while they would probably handle a rules light game fairly well, we have the other player coming in hot in terms of being a headache. They're big on system mastery, a game doesn't necessarily need a lot of splat books, technically D&D doesn't have a whole lot in that sense, but it needs a lot of options so they can make a cool build, doesn't even have to be a powerful build (they've played a number of warlocks but never once went bladelock, for example). So Rules lite systems that don't have a lot of build options one can make with race, class, feat, spell combos to keep them interested. I have games that will appeal to one (the system mastery player loves Pathfinder 2e), but not the other (that player did not have a good time with Pathfinder 2e), and this is a group where I'd rather not exclude any of my friends. The other players are fairly open to whatever they're playing so at least I don't have to worry about them. One of the reasons I'm hoping Daggerheart has a decent number of moving parts is that the friend who is stuck on D&D because they studied it for nostalgia's sake, is a HUGE Critical Role fan, so if it's complex enough to appeal to the system mastery player, then I'm sure I can get the rest of the group behind it. With Pro GMing, I post a game, and people opt to join, or not, and then I run it when I have enough players.
I think being a paid GM is a perfectly valid career. I also know that I'll never do it. I've been a GM for 42 years, and I love it. But gaming is my escape from responsibility, not a requirement, and I'm not willing to mess with that.
I am interested in professional DM-ing, mainly because of my friends and family. This video is incredibly useful, as I have those exact fears about stating a professional career, and intend to leave it as a plan B for myself. Thank you!
As a former pro DM... yeah... Turning my passion into my job killed it for me, even now that I'm playing casually again, it's hard to recapture that fresh-faced magic
I totally get it. At the end of the day if turning your hobby into a profession is killing your enjoyment of that hobby then you should definitely drop the profession. As for paid DMing I really don't get people who claim that it's ruining the hobby. Table top gaming requires that you have somewhere around half a dozen friends that are also into that exact hobby, which can certainly be a tall order. If that's the case the only alternative if you want to play is to get a stranger to run a game for you and if you're going to ask someone to put that much time and effort, they should be paid for it. Or in my case, my regular table with friends got extremely inconsistent to the point that we were only getting together for a game once a month, twice if we were lucky. I still wanted to consistently play DnD so with no gaming store anywhere close to where I live the only way to do that was to pay a DM and play on a VTT. But I also get how DMing professionally would get tedious when having to deal with problem players. I've been involved with a paid campaign for about 4 months now and that 6th player slot has been a nonstop parade of problem players, at this point we've given up filling that slot.
I appreciate the honesty. As with any choice for work there will be pros and cons. My usual players have multiple times offered to pay for me running the games. I didn't like the idea because I was the one to invite them in the first place. It wouldn't sit right with me, personally. I've been considering being a Pro-GM for a while now. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I run online, 5 games professionally, about to launch two more. Honestly, it's hard to make ends meet because it will always feel strange to charge what the job is worth, especially for something you love. Here's my experience: Online you'll get less established groups, so you'll get less group requests and little to no individual requests. Have a session 0 and lay down the way you run games. You're the boss being paid for your services, so you'll run the games you're going to run. If people don't like that, you can try to accommodate within reason, but you have to be willing to enforce limits. I stress that my tables are a team game, so I give everyone equal treatment, expect teamwork and even loot distribution and there is no PvP that is not agreed upon and resolved above board to make sure there's no bad feelings.
Thank you for the video. I am a high school teacher and run the D&D club at my school but I am nearing retirement and had been thinking of doing some professional DMing to supplement my pension. The idea of enjoying the game less because it becomes a job is certainly a concern for me because I love playing with my friends. We've been a weekly gaming group for 20 years now and I don't want to lose the passion for the game. I'm not really sure why people are so opposed to the idea of pro DMs. If they have a regular game and get to play why drag someone else for being paid for their time to provide a game for someone else?
This reinforces what I suspected might happen to me if I went "pro". I certainly think I could do it, but if I did it would effectively be to earn hobby money (I have a pretty good day job). I think that can work, since as you mention most games would be in the evening unless you do virtual outside your time zone, but you have to be up front with your customers that this is a side gig for you. That might not work for everyone. The hobby burn out is the thing that scares me the most. I really don't think the trade off of making money, but not loving my hobby anymore is worth it. If you do something as work, it almost always becomes work. I envy the people who have the opposite experience, but think they are the exception rather than the rule. If you do what you love for money, it almost always ends with you losing your love. I certainly think in this day and age that there's a space for paid GM services. I have been in multiple paid games, and really enjoyed myself. During lockdown times, it was absolutely worth it.
I was paid by my local store to run D&D. I never had issues with problem players. I did end up with very large groups. It didn't pay that well... I eventually negotiated for store credit. That way, the store could raise my rate... without actually paying more. At that point, the rate was more worth it, but obviously I could only spend it on game stuff. The biggest drawback... I couldn't get into elaborate storytelling... because the store wanted me to only do low level games for new players.
I run three games a week. A few months ago a bunch of neighbors got together and asked on FB if there was a DM in the neighborhood who would be willing to run a game once a month for 8 players of varying experience. I thought about it, and realized how much of a recluse I had become since lockdown. I felt it would be good for me to get out and socialize a bit, so I offered my services. I had not considered the logistics of running at an actual tabletop again (all of my other games are online now). Honestly it was a bit of a pain in the butt to gather all the materials and lug them around. Luckily the group ended up being a lot of fun /and/ they wanted to pay me. I had never charged for DnD so I threw out the arbitrary number of $100 for a four hour session. They immediately agreed. I think I might have undersold myself, but it's cool. They also have a ton of food every time I play with them and send me home with leftovers. I couldn't imagine doing it full time though, after investing so much into my other games. When would I sleep?
I really enjoyed this video. I've been a GM since I was 11 and most people give me feedback that they have a great time in my games. I have considered going professional but some of the things you mentioned are why I haven't. Making my passion a job, especially with trying to afford school fees and rent (especially now with the economy the way it is) seems ill advised for me. I don't think being paid to GM is inherently wrong. It is technically a service like being an entertainer. And you're right that in that scenario, it's more about what they client wants. I know I'd feel drained doing that. But i do want to GM more. I've reached capacity with my friend group and they can't sign up for more games. So I'm volunteering at PAX this year to do GMing to network and meet new people who'd want to play TTRPGs with me as their GM.
another great video mate. From a player perspective (aside from Cons) I've only ever paid to play a game once, and that was for a Gen Con Online event. Was it any better than free games? Nope. And there are so many free games being run on Discord, I doubt I will ever need to again
Fantastic video Ben. We don’t see enough of this perspective expressed to the public. Certainly is slightly different today with how comfortable everyone is with digital tools now. I think though you can face difficult clients, I’ve found it important to express your own GM style and set up expectations for the client well before the session to ensure a enjoyment across the table. What’s helped me is to understand that such a profession will remain ever a side hustle and that it can only take you so far as a creative outlet. Do you have any tips for Pro GMs who aspire to get into the industry for TTRPG author/designer? What kind of balance did you give yourself as you made the transition to Ghostfire?
Honestly, no real balance between projects. I left Pro-GM'ing months after joining Ghostfire, which is the time it took to ensure everything was handed off to someone who could continue running that business. Being a pro-GM gives you access to groups to try things out on - playtest scenarios, adventures, monster stats, etc - to build your experience as a designer and then self publish via platforms like DTRPG. This builds your body of work. There's a balance there with ensuring your clients experience isn't compromised by your own experimental material.
It actually sounds nice as a side gig. I would actually try it, but I would think I scam my customer, because I am really not a good DM. I lack voices, I rarely care about the actual rules and what my players are capable of. But maybe I give it a try. What I actually did last december is to sell spots in aome online one shots for a donation to local child support organization and I managed to collect 250EUR for charity (people paid and sent me the confirmation, I didn't collect the money myself). And this was the one of best things I did in life.
You will be surprised I think! The trick is to find clients who have the same philosophy as you! Clients who care less about voices or tactical gameplay and just want a good time with the narrative. Every player will have preferences in GM styles and just like how you're not the right GM for some players, you're someone else's perfect GM
I would feel the same way. My players tell me that I should try DMing as a side hustle because think I’m a good DM but the imposter syndrome hits and I really don’t think I’m good enough.
I can’t imagine being able to prep for more than two games a week. I spend as many hours prepping as I do GMing. That would basically half your hourly pay. As far as whether it’s ok to charge for DMing…. It’s not for me, but I would never begrudge someone trying to grind and hustle. It is hard out there.
Exactly. GMing 2 different games in a week (and playing in another) was the most I ever did... and with the amount of time I spend prepping - which is anywhere between 3 to 10 hours per game session, that would would be exhausting. Back in college over holiday breaks I would run 3 or 4 sessions of my regular campaign per week... but that was the same campaign (not 2 different games) and in college during break none of us had anything more than part time jobs to go to, so that was easy and fun. But getting paid to run 5+ different game sessions per week (for strangers) sounds tiresome and no fun at all.
I'm running the same adventures for multiple groups. This dramatically cuts down on prep and my sessions get better the 2nd or 3rd time I run an adventure. Take those lessons learned forward and tweak the adventure instead of starting from scratch. Your game doesn't need to run on rails to take this approach. I see many pro-DMs doing similar things, running Strahd for 5-10 tables a week. Learn it once, play it many times. The nature of D&D ensures each play-through will be unique, so you're not likely to get bored. It's fun for me to see how different groups tackle the same encounter, for instance.
It's interesting to hear your experiences as a professional DM, particularly on the point of pricing. I'm not interested in pro DMing myself (either as a DM or as a client), but I often wondered how much a pro DM can reasonably charge and whether it adds up to a living wage. I don't think it's harmful to the hobby at large, having pro DMs out there, but I know it's not for me personally. To the people who can and do make money at this, more power to them.
I get paid to run a couple of tables. The financial benefit is being able to claim expenses on tax returns. It was good to hear the rates charged by someone else in Australia, just so i know that i am not undercutting anyone trying to make a living running games.
This is a good point I didn’t touch on on the video, not knowing how tax laws worked in other places! But yes, it does allow you to claim hobby purchases as business expenses, such as that copy of Tasha’s Cauldron. 😅
I think there needs to be like a GM union. A professional organization of vetted GMs that people can contract out. There's a base fee and an hourly rate, and a way to hold GMs accountable for providing the gaming service.
A network? Sure. A union? Absolutely not. Just as a for instance: pay rates acceptable in Los Angeles or Chicago would undoubtedly be prohibitive in much of rural America. And as for the easy response of "adjust as needed, via union rules", . . . well, . . . needing to learn a totally new and unrelated ruleset in order to run an agreed-upon ruleset is an unnecessary complication. But I *definitely* like the idea of a networking system that gets GMs' names out for potential clients, and could serve to help match groups with GMs that would collaborate well.
This is great information and something I thought about doing myself during my time in college. Now, I can never see myself becoming a professional DM as i would prefer for it to remain my hobby. I do believe that professional DM are entirely a valid thing to be doing in our community. However, I would be holding professional DMs to a higher standard when it comes to the quality of the games they are running.
As one that work in a compeny that play dnd for kids i have cognitive barrier between work and education for kids using tools from dnd and play in my hobby . It's keeping me sane and happy - i love to work with kids and don't mind if they are not really roleplaying.
I think it changes the game from a hobby to something less if both the DM and the Players can't have the game they want. This is the intention of my GM style, I want everyone at the table to have fun. If I'm getting paid, then my fun is no longer important and I have to keep my "clients" happy.
I agree. It's incredibly important that I'm having fun while running the game because that's when I bring out my best GM-ing. Where I think we differ slightly is that if I'm sacrificing my fun for the fun of the players, it probably means that they are just the wrong players for me and I should refer them to another GM who may be more up their alley. And also think my fun is important during a paid game. It's professional to have fun! After all, if your GM is not having fun and looking like he'd rather be doing something else, what's the rest of the table going to look like?
I've been a proGM for about a year, after running games as an amateur for 42 years. Currently, I have one pro game a week and I'm looking at adding one more if I can find the players. I also run twice a month for family and friends. I'm physically disabled and can't drive because of it, so running games online allows me to work part-time where I wouldn't be able to work at all. I'm in a very privileged position -- my spouse makes enough so I don't have to work. I run professionally because I enjoy it and because it pays for my hobby. Because of my situation, I can be very particular in what I run. I run primarily horror games, so I'm very much a niche GM. I'd be happy D&D for a one-shot or special event (like a convention game), but I've never had the opportunity. I wouldn't want to run a full campaign of it, paid or not. That's not entirely true; I just bought **Curse of Straad** My biggest suggestion for people looking to turn pro is: professional GMing is a business and you need to treat it like one. You are now self-employed and you have a business. You might want to get a couple books on running micro-businesses. My go-to book is **Small-Time Operator: How to Start Your Own Business, Keep Your Books, Pay Your Taxes, and Stay Out of Trouble** by Bernard Kamoroff.
I'm a Paid DM (I won't say Pro because I often have impostor syndrome) and I spent 20 years STing in the on line space for free. The money is okay but I use it as a side gig and my home group is all DMs.. So a good way to off set that is when I'm running a lot of paid games I make sure the home group has a story teller who isn't me and we change up the system from what I'm running (its a good way to test out new stuff) but I can tell you running 20 years with no pay and organizing large world events I'd rather run less and get paid and set expectations of the worlds I run and turn a few away then not. I also tend to charge less if it is a group that is "Giving their DM a break"
I am not a new player, and appreciate my pro DMs SO much. I moved from NYC to rural New York and online play is my only option to play. While I GM for my friends, none of them GM. Also GMing IS WORK! It may be work you enjoy, but it takes valuable time and effort.
Nice video. I walked away from a recording contract with a band for the same reason. Music was enjoyable as a hobby, but as a profession I started to hate it. I'd never do that to TTRPGS, GMing is my happy place.
I wonder, if you professionally DM, how much homebrewing do you do versus just running a module? I could see how if you're homebrewing everytime it could definitely sap you, but if most groups you DM ask for you to run a module I would assume that really cuts down on prep time and other resources you would have to come up with yourself. And if homebrew is what most clients want, I don't know if this makes total sense, but I would simply create an entire world or universe, where any adventure/campaign could take place so that I don't have to continuously come up with completely new things and possibly recycle/refurbish unused ideas. And in this way you could have a really solid world which you have built through many adventures, reducing the effort needed when contextualizes your next campaign, but maybe that not be as creatively stimulating.
I think paid dungeon Masters have a very important role in the hobbies ecology. People who oppose something like this don't understand the clients it's for. A paid DM is not for the average Cheeto muncher that farts in your basement, it's for the busy professionals who need a break from their everyday life who have the money to spend and who are willing to put out money for a good product. People's time is worth something and people are willing to pay money for it. People have very little time to themselves. Don't want to mess with scheduling, conflicts and banter. They want to get what they pay for.
It reminds me of when I was working at a gamestore, people would often dream about painting minis for Games Workshop. And finally someone did! He was a great painter so... but he told me later that it ruined painting for him. Painting was his relaxed space, it was his hobby. Suddenly it was his job and he was simply painting far more than he wanted to and not the stuff he wanted to paint the way he wanted to... no it was just non-stop work!
Well Ben, as someone who appreciates your content here on Ghostfire. If you ever decide an international game would be something you're interested in. My group would be more than happy to pay you! 😊
I'm all for paid GMs. Entertainment is something we are willing to pay for and so paying for the GM is not out of the question. I try to find ways to 'pay' my free GMs a few times a year just to show my appreciation to the work they do. I have considered paying for GM to run special occasions for me, I'd love to hire a quality GM to run a one-shot for a birthday or anniversary party. I think Convention GMs should be paid at least a modest fee or granted free admission for DMing 2-3 games. I have pondered the idea of running a few on-line games for spending money, but I personally wouldn't pay money to for my skill level (and not to brag, but I think I'm equally good to several DMs that I have played with).
I think it is a great idea, it is hard to find a committed Dungeon Master as long as you aren't charging some outrageous price i am completely cool with it
Thanks for the insight. Subbed! I cant say much of the subject.Though logically Imho.. Its totally fine to get paid IF its your dedicated job! As hobby D.M?? Your payment is joy, food, drink, heck dnd supplements/ minis/ cards and the like 👍Im grassgreen D.M but I want to play more as a player first to get more experience under my belt. But thats difficult since the supposed groups be it D.M and/ or players.. well their schedules and life hindrances are more unstable than wild atoms! I dont want to be cash paid unless losing my clerk job..
Ran through the initial local shutdowns online. Ran as many as 6 games a week at times, and pretty much burned myself out. I will run on call occasionally for some of my old clients but 99% of my gaming is at casual tables with friends these days
I already turned my passion into a profession once (I started testing computer games) and it definitely spoiled my joy of it. I don't like the concept of being a professional DM. I once charged a small fee from the team, but only because I needed to purchase additional materials. Now I don't take money from players and I'm unlikely to join a paid game, but I won't hold anyone back either.
Just my perspective, DnD is a place for me to escape reality, have fun, and be surrounded by good friends that share the same passion for this hobby, so adding in a pay to play system just makes DnD a bit dreadful. I usually dread going into work and I dont wanna feel that way about a game that I feel so passionate about and put so much genuine effort into. Secondly, I, myself, sink a lot of money into DnD and know players that sink hundreds of US dollars into the game (book, dice, minis, etc.) that dont even DM, why would i make them pay extra $100 to $150, or however much, just to play. They gain their entry to my games by all the product that they were willing to buy. My thought is "I've already sank so much into materials and now I got to pay more just to play". This is my view on it, and why I'd never charge my players to play at my table. I can respect those trying to hustle and make money doing what they love, those are the best kind of jobs, the one were you go to work happy.
I've run two games as a Pro DM and my clients thought they were fun but I decided to stop after that. I quickly felt al of the issues you've described and decided to stop before the game will lost it's fun.
Running now some TTRPGs for pay in the Israel for some local community. Found that for me works better or open table stile. Westmarches for OSR stile games when the random tables can help me. Or to split between different game systems. CP in one day DnD on another etc. Really think that all GM should be payed.
I think someone should mention that paying DMs goes way, way back to the early days of D&D where TSR had to pay people to DM at tournaments in conventions because most people wanted to play those, not DM them. Also in the early days conventions were a huge part of TSR's revenue. You could make a pretty good argument that without paid DMs TSR might not have survived the early days. They really needed that convention revenue to grow.
I know a couple of professional DMs, and the ones less likely to get burnt out are the ones that are getting paid the most in my experience. 300 bucks for a 3.5 hour session is more than fair for a table of 4 (possibly 5 sometimes). I know two 300 USDs and one 300 Euro, and they have been at the capacity that they want to run for several years now. Considering the cost of going out and getting entertainment, 100 an hour is a good and fair amount to split for the evening in my opinion. Especially with online helping out now days as well. It is probably hard to get to the point of higher fees, but if you can then I think it is worth it.
I have been a player in 4 different paid games. Same players we all met playing in a free online game and wanted to stick together , couldnt find a GM that wanted to run for free a group of 5, so we paid for it. We had 2 DMs that were great (ontime, great content, seemed to know their stuff) then we had 2 that were awful (late or last minute cancel, and didnt know the vtt and was trying to wing it terribly, the content they were doing was just awful) So some GMs are worth money and some are NOT. If you are a single player there are so many places to find free games, and don't be afraid to try a few. I found my forever friends and am in 2 free games with online friends and LOVE it.
so I was an online pro DM for a short time here is my experience: it became work. I like having paid GMs. i DM for my group and I usually pay to be just a player and it works for me.
I don’t judge people if this is there only source of income is to be a professional dm. But if they have other options and don’t need the extra cash then don’t charge for d and d. I run games online and am finally playing again almost every day of the week I love this game and I love my players and being a players and honestly regardless of financial situation everyone should be able to try this game.
Monetizing your passion is often a quick ticket to losing your love for it. I've learned that the hard way with music (which I no longer do professionally) and for that reason I'd be really wary of running games for pay. I like to do it for my friends, but for strangers who then feel entitled to behave badly? Nah. I do think that pro GMs are perfectly valid - there's a market and people who want to play but don't know anyone who can run a game may have no other options - but I don't think I would ever want to be one.
Think about this idea: as a youngster, instead of having a boring baby sitter come over to keep an eye on you while mom and dad go on date night, they hire a GM to come run a 3hr session once a week for you and your siblings! That sounds awesome and I would've loved that! I haven't hired a GM (because I always GM), but its definitely a valid service to offer. People pay others for all sorts of things, no reason this hobby is any different. I think people get weird about it because it is a more personal hobby than maybe being a golf caddy or something like that. I think the most key part would be trying to find a group where the GM fits in well with, and can run the game they want without having to make too many alterations to cater to the players. I volunteer (not paid) at the local library and run sessions for kids every other week over the summer and its a bunch of fun. It can be a little stressful sometimes, but honestly the more I do it the easier it gets. I could definitely envision being a paid GM, but I run a specific style of campaign that the players would have to agree to. Thanks for the insight.
I have no problem with professional DMs. My big issue is when those professional DMs get burned out / lose the love of the game. I started DMing in order for my DM to take a break and be able to play. I noticed that in 1 month he was invigorated to DM again. Players need to help out their DMs.
I'm not sure if I'd ever want to charge players as a GM, but as a player I'm open to contributing to the GM. I've never played at a table, only online, so I often have to search for games with filters on paid and free and I think that would also put me off wanting to charge, but I can't ignore that I'd love to just play whenever and not worry about a job. But that's just wishful thinking😅
I have been a Gencon DM for Baldwin Games because I am out of the greater Indianapolis area It is fun but tiring to me. I am Dyslexic as I have to memorize alot more. People are kinda shocked I run with stat block note cards and no DM screen I have to keep a copy of the mod but I rarely use it.
i always find it funny how people say they should never have to pay for a gm. yet none of them ever want to take a turn gming. if you can get paid to run a game that is awesome. and you should make that money.
I've been a pro GM; I charged $10 per hour per person, so generally $40 to $60 an hour. It was just supplemental income alongside my full-time tech job. The whole reason I was able to do this is because the groups wanted to play 2nd Edition and 3.5 Edition rules, and there aren't many people who know that. But I've been playing since 1987 and I not only know those systems well but I have a ton of both book and homebrew adventures. The pandemic put an end to it, but I'm thinking of starting again. The groups were almost universally older people, for obvious reasons.
I'm not *opposed* to the concept of paid GM, but mostly I'm confused by it... at my table we have our "regular" GM but we also take turns, understanding that we're all in it for the fun so nobody feels like it's super high pressure if you want to GM.
I do think this is essentially great for everyone, because pro DMs SHARE. They share about their knowledge of their games and their techniques of hosting a game. It's like auto companies are more willing to innovate than car hobbysts. But it's a job. Jobs are supplying/answering for one or multiple demands. Jobs wouldn't be fun all the time.
You could replace “professional GM” with “professional martial arts instructor“ and the conversation would be similar, especially for more traditional arts like judo. In the US, judo is often a side gig taught in a community space for little or no compensation. As a result judo is dying in the US, especially compared to Brazilian jiujitsu, which is dominating the US thanks to treating it as a professional endeavor with relatively higher cost classes and full time instructors. 🙏🎲🥋
Not a professional DM here, but I run a session every week at a store and get store credit. Just once a week I can say sometimes I'm mentally exhausted from it lol. I can't imagine having to run multiple games a week never mind a day lol. I will say for me though it is always about the players and seeing the joy on their faces when they do something cool and get the final hit on the big bad or escape the bad situation with some smooth talking. Truthfully I'm still new (only been DMing for 2+ years) and learning. I would say to anyone reading this and getting burnout, just take a break. You will likely find yourself during said break thinking up some new cool thing to throw at your players or just getting the passion back all together. As weird as it may sound as well, I would encourage you as a DM to go play some sessions instead of running. ^-^
I had run games at conventions and in stores, but that is now quite a few years ago. It sure taught me lots of things, but my preference is to have more personal stories, often drama or horror, and those just work better if I know the players and everybody at the table is playing in a proactive manner and not just waiting to the plot to drop on them. That is why charging money for it would create that expectation that I have to entertain people, and that is simply not how I run games. And of course that is also not why I would pay to play. However I can understand that people who see themselves as entertainers to make that their job, as well as players to pay for such a service like they would for any other entertainment.
I don't get why running RPGs for money is somehow a bad thing. A DM is an entertainer. He puts in the work and does the hard stuff most people don't want to do, in order to entertain others. You pay to watch a movie, you pay for videogames, you pay to buy a novel, but you refuse to pay someone who prepares and runs for you a personalized adventure, tailor-made for your own tastes and sensibilities? That's a double standard if I ever saw one.
I am a profession GM and I agree, it can be less fun when you "have to play" it. I currently run part time for groups at my local game store and some online games but I don't think I'd like to do it full time.
Cost of the group, overall. While I know many Pro-GM's charge per player, I always charged per hour. The reason was so I dependably knew what my income for a session would be, and I was never out of pocket if 1 or 2 players couldn't make it a session.
GM'ing takes a lot out of you. Players don't realize all of the out of session prep that goes into games. I've never been paid to run a game and can only imagine the extra pressure.
Burnout would be the first problem. Further the money you can charge vs the hours you put into planning a game wouldn't be nearly enough. I've thought about hanging my shingle out, but first off there are things I'd feel I'd need (a certain level of improv and acting training for instance) before I'd be comfortable running a game professionally. But even if I did all that, for me I don't think the cost benefit analysis would add up. And it would become a job, so the biggest part of what makes the game so much fun would be drained out of it for me.
Considering how much time and effort goes into GMing, I think paying them should be more commonplace. Or, even if someone wants to do it just for fun, normalize the players compensating them in other ways, like snacks, and drinks. Have players that keeps up with scheduling or notes. Having the norm of 1 person spending hours prepping and 3-6 people, going over all their characters, and items, and keeping all the notes, while also being the go-to for learning the rules. Then everyone else just showing up and expecting to have everything ready for them, is more damaging to the hobby.
Given I suffer burnout running two games in a week, I can't imagine running every day of the week, even if I was paid. But then, I don't prepare much and I tend to run very off-the-cuff, relying on knowing my players and the system I run. Lockdowns made me the only GM for a while, which lead to said burnout. I'm not sure how I feel about someone getting paid for the same thing. Sounds like a nightmare scenario to me (As a GM) in a lot of ways.
I've never made over 20,000 a year at "real" jobs. America sucks. If I could double my income playing, it would be amazing. I currently run 2 games, one I do get paid for, but it's only $5. LOL I personally would rather play with friends, but most of mine passed away a decade ago. Now, the closest thing I have to playing with friends is being a paid DM as it's nearly impossible to find players. Especially at my age, I'm 50! Most people near me work 2 jobs to survive, no time for fun
I would love to get paid to run games, and could survive on a respectable schedule with some of my other incomes. I mostly feel like my digital setup and skills are woefully lacking, so who knows
I wanted to start Dming full time as I love this hobby. Ive been playing and Dming on and off for about 5 years and I have genuinely give this a lot of thought. If anyone does have some pointers and pros/cons I would love to hear them!
I'm a paid DM, but I don't believe it makes a good living without another source of income, unless you have a very low cost of living. I have a day job, and I run in person and online in evenings and weekends. It helps support my family through hard times and I still enjoy D&D, but I do walk the edge of Burnout at times. What do you want to know?
@TheBoyFromNorfolk How long have you been doing this for? And how did you get started? Was it just a case of advertising on social media or some other way? Oh I'm still going to be working, but having some extra income never hurt.
If you ever turn your passion into a career, be prepared for the worst: the worst being you lose the love for your passion. It's always good to have a skill for anything like cooking or DMing but it is always a tragedy when that skill you love just becomes...that. A skill.
Had a professional gm who WAS a friend. Dude had a lot of issues going on in his life but we all understood. He wasn’t preparing for games as the year(s) went on and started taking things out on me in game and out of it for being the only one speaking up and trying to make sure he was okay.
Was the only person at the time that was in two of his paid games and had to drop out of both.
Dude literally brought his roommate in one game and I had to delete my entire story focus cause his character would leave the party if he found out.
Paid dm refused to do anything about this for months
I professionally DM for a special needs montessori school, focusing on team work, creative thinking, and developing interpersonal relationships. It's only one of the several streams of income I have, but it is definitely fulfilling to help these kids develop through gaming.
I love this. Keep up the good work.
Good for you homes. I love that maine!!!
I teach improv and storytelling...
How did you get into this?
My son is on the autism spectrum, and once I got him over the anxiety of choice paralysis, etc (I use Shadowdark RPG) It has been a great experience for him. His confidence is sky high and to see that face is immeasurably awesome 💜
DMing for money has a different vibe. For me I always felt like there was more pressure, compared to playing for fun with close friends. I’ve been DMing professionally on and off for a few years, and I’d love to get to the point where I can DM for any group, paid or not, and still have fun and be relaxed. This will take me some time to build more DM experience points, but one day I hope to go full pro, and you can too whoever you are! Work on those calm-positive-leadership skills and master your improv skills ;D. I try to pretend that I’m NOT getting paid even though I am, to make the game feel more relaxed and authentic. But boy oh boy, planning multiple sessions per week is REALLY draining on the mind engine, that’s where light-weight session prep and great improv skills come in really handy.
Great video! Good luck adventurers!❤
I run two paid games online right now and my home game for friends. You definitely hit the nail on the head with some of your points. There have been times when the paid games have stressed me out, but typically they're a pretty smooth affair. I've definitely had special requests for things in game and bristled at that, since it goes against my philosophy as a GM. There's definitely a space for it, since my paid games are usually filled with people that wouldn't play if they didn't have that option.
Nothing relevant to say, just support to give. Keep on going, Ghostfire!
I run 3 games, two on Sundays that are streamed, and one at a local library every other Saturday. I've had people say that I should charge to run games for people, but I could never. The idea of meshing my favorite hobby and money makes me feel like I would hate it since I would be basing my peformance not against my own expectations, but against the monetary expectations of the players. I appreciate this video and your insight into why I'm glad I've never made that leap.
what's your take on accepting donations though?
I listened to this on my way to one of my paid sessions and I can definitely see how it’s not great as a primary revenue stream. I work full time and play in 2 home games alternating dming and playing with a roommate. The home games are definitely relaxing and more laidback while my pro games I’m still having fun but definitely feel a little bit more of my customer service experience showing through. I still love it and feel like it’s a symbiotic relationship for my local gaming community.
I've been a pro-DM for 3 and a bit years and grown a whole business around it... and I love it. I found it so challenging to get into D&D and it was only when I found out I could pay for the service did I finally get to play in a welcoming, consistent and engaging ongoing campaign. As a business, my team and I also specialise in introducing new players to D&D. This again was another sore spot for me getting into the hobby, so I'm beyond happy to offer that service and hopefully make it easier for people to try D&D (or other ttrpgs) in a safe and inclusive space. I guess my whole schtick is that I just want to provide what I couldn't find back when I started playing. And I'm fervently aware that what I/we do isn't for everyone, and that's a.ok
Really good advice. I don't dm professionally, but one thing that has helped me a lot, especially when running games with people I don't know, has been that I used to run workshops professionally. So if you want to be a professional DM it might be worth reading up on workshop facilitation (which also includes how to navigate disruptive participants)
thanks, do you have any particular reading you would recommend? i myself can be socially polarising without trying sometimes.
@@dadapotok good question. I've actually had training in workshop facilitation so the books I've read have been bonds like "Thinkertoys" and "The Universal Traveler" that are more focused on activities you can run in a workshop.
Keeping it real.
Fantabulous video Ben! Great to hear some real numbers.
And yes, when your hobby becomes a job, it's no longer a hobby.
And a hobby should be fun.
If it's no longer fun, then its a job.
Appreciate this insight! I've only been DMing for a few years, starting early in the pandemic for friends, and due to being the forever DM, I've gone into playing with paid DMs for the last year or so just so I could get to be a player, and could fit another game into my schedule (as long as I wasn't prepping!). The current campaign I'm playing in this evening in fact is someone who is now doing it full time.
As a DM, I sometimes wonder if I could ever really get into the paid DMing space and the thing that has kept me from it is exactly the thing you described here -- turning the passion of a thing you love into work is a rough go and I know numerous folks who have done that with other things they loved/were good at.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As a professional DM myself, I can relate to some of your experience. I can tell you, running online makes a big difference, though the financial side is still a tough balancing act! Great vid, thanks.
Glad you did what was right for you to save your love of the game (especially since we got Ghostfire Gaming/Grim Hollow out of it) but I would love to see you guys actually run a Grim Hollow one-shot on the channel with some of the sub-classes/transformations, or your own variant rules to show a dark fantasy game in play. Great video and looking forward to the next one!
Waiting to get to the end of the video for full comments, but seeing that clip of you "prepping a game", interesting in what tools you use to prep games, and how you personally go about it. Always like to learn from others
My main tool is OneNote, which breaks notes down into notebooks, folders and pages. A notebook might be an entire dungeon, region or city. A folder might contain all the info on a floor of the dungeon or district of a city. A page might describe a dungeon room, an encounter, or a city location such as a tavern, shop, or NPC's home. During sessions I can then click through the pages as the party venture through the dungeon.
I use OneNote too, but in a slightly different way. Folders end up being regions for me, with pages being rooms/buildings.
The recent subpage options going down two levels is a real help with getting that step by step granularity if you need it@@GhostfireGaming
Very honest, informative and comprehensive. Great job!!!
Been a pro-GM for a few months now. I enjoy the work greatly! It definitely hasn't felt like I was having less fun although I do get burnt out. To counter that I have 1 weekend a month where I do nothing RPG-related and just chill. Personally, I don't like DnD and I don't run it anymore. It's extremely prep heavy and you always have to account for broken builds your players have etc... I don't really have problems like that in the games I run now because they are really rules-light and focus more on storytelling running stuff like OSR and PBTA have been great for me and fit my style of GM-ing. Because I spend less time on prep, I can learn and run more systems and also dedicate time to other side-gigs like commission painting and 3D printing etc...
It's definitely not a super wise decision to not run DnD if I want to make money, but luckily for me, I have managed to scrounge up a player base of people willing to try other games. I mostly run one-shots with pre-gen characters now which seem to fit what my clientele need. Taster sessions for them to try new systems without too much pressure. I live in a very fast-paced big city and it's not realistic to expect 5 players to come every week without cancellations here and there so this model works for me in that aspect too.
Would love to hear how other paid GMs counter last-minute cancellations.
It’s not for everyone and I know it’s not for me. I’m perfectly fine keeping TTRPG as a hobby for me and not a job. Good video.
I remember when you opened up about this topic on the GG Discord, and it's as insightful now as it was then. I'm about to start running my first paid game next month, so this was really helpful. Thanks so much for sharing, Ben!
I hope it goes really well! 😄🤘
I played as a player for a professional dm for about a year. At the begining i thought it was a very cool idea. But after a year being with his group i saw a lot of downsides. Especially regarding group cohesion and problematic players. By the end of the year he also took more and more groups and we saw a sharp decline in the quality of our games. At the end we as a group decided to disband.
For it to be worth it for both as a player receiving a good service and as a dm getting paid sufficiently. Prices should be much higher and most people probably wont pay them.
Now i am running a free game as a dm myself. That was the solution for me 😀
It really depends on your personnel situation. I'm a stay at home dad/homemaker and that isn't a full time job anymore now that my daughter is older. However our family dynamic is much less stressful if at least one of us is driving the kid to school, doing pick ups and doing the cooking. So being a Pro DM is great to make some money doing what I love but I'm not making tons of money. I was reluctant at first because I was afraid it might ruin the hobby I love but actually I enjoy my paid games because I forces me to up my game skills. Also I've been blessed with a great of players who are nice and respectful.
Excellent video and great insights!
Personally, I have no beef against paid DMs. If you can make money doing what you love, more power to ya!
Funny thing... whenever I hear people say that "everyone should be able to make a living doing something they enjoy", I used to laugh and say "no one is going to pay me to read comics and play video games (or D&D)". ...but times have changed and now you CAN make a living doing those things! LOL!
Makes sense. As domeone who has paid to play games, I have appreciated the effort most of the DMs put into it, but I usully felt like I was sitting around the table with someone's customers, never a group of friends playing a game. These were all online experiences, which adds to the disassociation with the group. There are times in which I wonder if I could do it. I suspect I would struggle, financially, as well as professionally. I currently do not think my DM skills merit someone's cash.
"sitting around the table with someone's customers, never a group of friends playing a game"
exactly this. Playing with "customers" (you probably dont know) and paying a GM (that you probably dont know) sounds like zero fun to me.
Great video, nice to hear from someone who stepped away. I personally would never pay for a DM, but I do believe they are a valid service in the hobby. The age old fact is that groups can struggle to get a DM, and so if people want someone else to come in an DM for them, that's perfectly legitimate. And that's coming from someone who was always thrust behind the screen for their friends DnD games as a teenager
Yes, I think sometimes it's about paying for convenience and an experience you can rely on.
@@TheInvadernick agreed. My issue is with DMs who charge just to be in their games. You hear the stories of DMs posting a game on roll20 and then it's "$10 a session". That's where it feels murky for me. Because that's not someone hiring a DM, that's a DM exploiting players (in my book)
@@thewelshdm I don't see the distinction. If they charge, they are a paid DM. Players who want to make sure they can be in a group can go for it. Most do not.
For me the distinction is the direction of things. A pro DM offering services gets approached by a group on the whole who wants a paid DM. Versus a DM mandating that their games must be paid entry, where often people are coming seperatly and not as an initial group. It feels inherently different to me. But we can disagree@@hawkname1234
I pay to GM! Books, miniatures, VTT subscriptions… I don’t have the heart to ask my friends for a few coins now and then. And this is why I’m an amateur in its truest sense of the word: a love for the game.
I'm slowly growing my client base with paid games, and one of my concerns is this very thing, so I'm trying to make room for it. Sundays will only ever be game day for my friend group, the campaigns I run for them will not be the same as the campaigns I run professionally, and once I get more established, I hope to run more indie games so I can save my 5E stuff for my group since that's the system that appeals to them more as a whole... barring some smooth talking to get one player to stretch her limbs, and get another player to enjoy games that don't have a bunch of splat books. I think I'm at a state where I have enough inspiration to go pro for awhile, so here's hoping things work out between this and my other ambitions!
Nice to see that you run other systems! One of the ways I get around this problem is by using my friend group as a test bed to practice running the new stuff. It helps me get some experience and the sessions often bring up rules I may have overlooked or commonly asked questions by players so I find them incredibly useful.
@@TheInvadernick I have one friend that is fairly hard-core towards the 5e rules sets, the thing that would pull her away is that her loyalty to Critical Role is greater than her nostalgia for D&D, so with my home group, I'll probably have an easy time running Candela Obscura or Daggerheart. Downside though, if Daggerheart doesn't have enough system mastery, it means it won't capture the attention of my more min-maxy player (who's also the most assertive player of the group). Most of the others are just happy to do whatever as long as it's adventure games with friends, but these two are the most vocal.
I've been a bit of a Kickstarter addict, so I have more RPG's than I know what to do with, never mind the sheer number of 5E systems/settings/variants I've collected from crowdfunding sources. So plenty of room there, but DAMN I want to stretch my wings and play these other games.
@@TheInvadernick Thankfully, Savage Worlds will likely be my saving grace, that and probably Spire, seems Spire has a number of players eager to play, but not enough DM's eager to run. So I need to get reading.
@@TheInvadernick It's a little difficult, I have one player who has a hard time with rules, they know 5e because the powers of nostalgia granted them the will to study and get familiar with said rules. So while they would probably handle a rules light game fairly well, we have the other player coming in hot in terms of being a headache.
They're big on system mastery, a game doesn't necessarily need a lot of splat books, technically D&D doesn't have a whole lot in that sense, but it needs a lot of options so they can make a cool build, doesn't even have to be a powerful build (they've played a number of warlocks but never once went bladelock, for example). So Rules lite systems that don't have a lot of build options one can make with race, class, feat, spell combos to keep them interested.
I have games that will appeal to one (the system mastery player loves Pathfinder 2e), but not the other (that player did not have a good time with Pathfinder 2e), and this is a group where I'd rather not exclude any of my friends. The other players are fairly open to whatever they're playing so at least I don't have to worry about them. One of the reasons I'm hoping Daggerheart has a decent number of moving parts is that the friend who is stuck on D&D because they studied it for nostalgia's sake, is a HUGE Critical Role fan, so if it's complex enough to appeal to the system mastery player, then I'm sure I can get the rest of the group behind it.
With Pro GMing, I post a game, and people opt to join, or not, and then I run it when I have enough players.
I think being a paid GM is a perfectly valid career. I also know that I'll never do it. I've been a GM for 42 years, and I love it. But gaming is my escape from responsibility, not a requirement, and I'm not willing to mess with that.
I am interested in professional DM-ing, mainly because of my friends and family. This video is incredibly useful, as I have those exact fears about stating a professional career, and intend to leave it as a plan B for myself. Thank you!
As a former pro DM... yeah...
Turning my passion into my job killed it for me, even now that I'm playing casually again, it's hard to recapture that fresh-faced magic
I totally get it. At the end of the day if turning your hobby into a profession is killing your enjoyment of that hobby then you should definitely drop the profession.
As for paid DMing I really don't get people who claim that it's ruining the hobby. Table top gaming requires that you have somewhere around half a dozen friends that are also into that exact hobby, which can certainly be a tall order. If that's the case the only alternative if you want to play is to get a stranger to run a game for you and if you're going to ask someone to put that much time and effort, they should be paid for it.
Or in my case, my regular table with friends got extremely inconsistent to the point that we were only getting together for a game once a month, twice if we were lucky. I still wanted to consistently play DnD so with no gaming store anywhere close to where I live the only way to do that was to pay a DM and play on a VTT.
But I also get how DMing professionally would get tedious when having to deal with problem players. I've been involved with a paid campaign for about 4 months now and that 6th player slot has been a nonstop parade of problem players, at this point we've given up filling that slot.
I appreciate the honesty. As with any choice for work there will be pros and cons.
My usual players have multiple times offered to pay for me running the games. I didn't like the idea because I was the one to invite them in the first place. It wouldn't sit right with me, personally.
I've been considering being a Pro-GM for a while now. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I run online, 5 games professionally, about to launch two more. Honestly, it's hard to make ends meet because it will always feel strange to charge what the job is worth, especially for something you love.
Here's my experience: Online you'll get less established groups, so you'll get less group requests and little to no individual requests. Have a session 0 and lay down the way you run games. You're the boss being paid for your services, so you'll run the games you're going to run. If people don't like that, you can try to accommodate within reason, but you have to be willing to enforce limits. I stress that my tables are a team game, so I give everyone equal treatment, expect teamwork and even loot distribution and there is no PvP that is not agreed upon and resolved above board to make sure there's no bad feelings.
Thank you for the video. I am a high school teacher and run the D&D club at my school but I am nearing retirement and had been thinking of doing some professional DMing to supplement my pension. The idea of enjoying the game less because it becomes a job is certainly a concern for me because I love playing with my friends. We've been a weekly gaming group for 20 years now and I don't want to lose the passion for the game. I'm not really sure why people are so opposed to the idea of pro DMs. If they have a regular game and get to play why drag someone else for being paid for their time to provide a game for someone else?
This reinforces what I suspected might happen to me if I went "pro". I certainly think I could do it, but if I did it would effectively be to earn hobby money (I have a pretty good day job). I think that can work, since as you mention most games would be in the evening unless you do virtual outside your time zone, but you have to be up front with your customers that this is a side gig for you. That might not work for everyone. The hobby burn out is the thing that scares me the most. I really don't think the trade off of making money, but not loving my hobby anymore is worth it. If you do something as work, it almost always becomes work. I envy the people who have the opposite experience, but think they are the exception rather than the rule. If you do what you love for money, it almost always ends with you losing your love. I certainly think in this day and age that there's a space for paid GM services. I have been in multiple paid games, and really enjoyed myself. During lockdown times, it was absolutely worth it.
I was paid by my local store to run D&D. I never had issues with problem players. I did end up with very large groups. It didn't pay that well... I eventually negotiated for store credit. That way, the store could raise my rate... without actually paying more. At that point, the rate was more worth it, but obviously I could only spend it on game stuff.
The biggest drawback... I couldn't get into elaborate storytelling... because the store wanted me to only do low level games for new players.
I run three games a week. A few months ago a bunch of neighbors got together and asked on FB if there was a DM in the neighborhood who would be willing to run a game once a month for 8 players of varying experience. I thought about it, and realized how much of a recluse I had become since lockdown. I felt it would be good for me to get out and socialize a bit, so I offered my services. I had not considered the logistics of running at an actual tabletop again (all of my other games are online now). Honestly it was a bit of a pain in the butt to gather all the materials and lug them around. Luckily the group ended up being a lot of fun /and/ they wanted to pay me. I had never charged for DnD so I threw out the arbitrary number of $100 for a four hour session. They immediately agreed. I think I might have undersold myself, but it's cool. They also have a ton of food every time I play with them and send me home with leftovers. I couldn't imagine doing it full time though, after investing so much into my other games. When would I sleep?
I really enjoyed this video. I've been a GM since I was 11 and most people give me feedback that they have a great time in my games. I have considered going professional but some of the things you mentioned are why I haven't. Making my passion a job, especially with trying to afford school fees and rent (especially now with the economy the way it is) seems ill advised for me. I don't think being paid to GM is inherently wrong. It is technically a service like being an entertainer. And you're right that in that scenario, it's more about what they client wants. I know I'd feel drained doing that. But i do want to GM more. I've reached capacity with my friend group and they can't sign up for more games. So I'm volunteering at PAX this year to do GMing to network and meet new people who'd want to play TTRPGs with me as their GM.
another great video mate. From a player perspective (aside from Cons) I've only ever paid to play a game once, and that was for a Gen Con Online event. Was it any better than free games? Nope. And there are so many free games being run on Discord, I doubt I will ever need to again
Fantastic video Ben. We don’t see enough of this perspective expressed to the public. Certainly is slightly different today with how comfortable everyone is with digital tools now. I think though you can face difficult clients, I’ve found it important to express your own GM style and set up expectations for the client well before the session to ensure a enjoyment across the table.
What’s helped me is to understand that such a profession will remain ever a side hustle and that it can only take you so far as a creative outlet. Do you have any tips for Pro GMs who aspire to get into the industry for TTRPG author/designer? What kind of balance did you give yourself as you made the transition to Ghostfire?
Honestly, no real balance between projects. I left Pro-GM'ing months after joining Ghostfire, which is the time it took to ensure everything was handed off to someone who could continue running that business.
Being a pro-GM gives you access to groups to try things out on - playtest scenarios, adventures, monster stats, etc - to build your experience as a designer and then self publish via platforms like DTRPG. This builds your body of work. There's a balance there with ensuring your clients experience isn't compromised by your own experimental material.
It actually sounds nice as a side gig. I would actually try it, but I would think I scam my customer, because I am really not a good DM. I lack voices, I rarely care about the actual rules and what my players are capable of.
But maybe I give it a try.
What I actually did last december is to sell spots in aome online one shots for a donation to local child support organization and I managed to collect 250EUR for charity (people paid and sent me the confirmation, I didn't collect the money myself). And this was the one of best things I did in life.
You will be surprised I think! The trick is to find clients who have the same philosophy as you! Clients who care less about voices or tactical gameplay and just want a good time with the narrative. Every player will have preferences in GM styles and just like how you're not the right GM for some players, you're someone else's perfect GM
I would feel the same way. My players tell me that I should try DMing as a side hustle because think I’m a good DM but the imposter syndrome hits and I really don’t think I’m good enough.
I can’t imagine being able to prep for more than two games a week. I spend as many hours prepping as I do GMing. That would basically half your hourly pay.
As far as whether it’s ok to charge for DMing…. It’s not for me, but I would never begrudge someone trying to grind and hustle. It is hard out there.
Exactly. GMing 2 different games in a week (and playing in another) was the most I ever did... and with the amount of time I spend prepping - which is anywhere between 3 to 10 hours per game session, that would would be exhausting.
Back in college over holiday breaks I would run 3 or 4 sessions of my regular campaign per week... but that was the same campaign (not 2 different games) and in college during break none of us had anything more than part time jobs to go to, so that was easy and fun.
But getting paid to run 5+ different game sessions per week (for strangers) sounds tiresome and no fun at all.
I'm running the same adventures for multiple groups. This dramatically cuts down on prep and my sessions get better the 2nd or 3rd time I run an adventure. Take those lessons learned forward and tweak the adventure instead of starting from scratch. Your game doesn't need to run on rails to take this approach. I see many pro-DMs doing similar things, running Strahd for 5-10 tables a week. Learn it once, play it many times. The nature of D&D ensures each play-through will be unique, so you're not likely to get bored. It's fun for me to see how different groups tackle the same encounter, for instance.
Preaching to the choir! I love the take on it, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
It's interesting to hear your experiences as a professional DM, particularly on the point of pricing. I'm not interested in pro DMing myself (either as a DM or as a client), but I often wondered how much a pro DM can reasonably charge and whether it adds up to a living wage. I don't think it's harmful to the hobby at large, having pro DMs out there, but I know it's not for me personally. To the people who can and do make money at this, more power to them.
I get paid to run a couple of tables. The financial benefit is being able to claim expenses on tax returns. It was good to hear the rates charged by someone else in Australia, just so i know that i am not undercutting anyone trying to make a living running games.
This is a good point I didn’t touch on on the video, not knowing how tax laws worked in other places! But yes, it does allow you to claim hobby purchases as business expenses, such as that copy of Tasha’s Cauldron. 😅
I think there needs to be like a GM union. A professional organization of vetted GMs that people can contract out. There's a base fee and an hourly rate, and a way to hold GMs accountable for providing the gaming service.
A network? Sure.
A union? Absolutely not.
Just as a for instance: pay rates acceptable in Los Angeles or Chicago would undoubtedly be prohibitive in much of rural America. And as for the easy response of "adjust as needed, via union rules", . . . well, . . . needing to learn a totally new and unrelated ruleset in order to run an agreed-upon ruleset is an unnecessary complication.
But I *definitely* like the idea of a networking system that gets GMs' names out for potential clients, and could serve to help match groups with GMs that would collaborate well.
This is great information and something I thought about doing myself during my time in college. Now, I can never see myself becoming a professional DM as i would prefer for it to remain my hobby. I do believe that professional DM are entirely a valid thing to be doing in our community. However, I would be holding professional DMs to a higher standard when it comes to the quality of the games they are running.
As one that work in a compeny that play dnd for kids i have cognitive barrier between work and education for kids using tools from dnd and play in my hobby .
It's keeping me sane and happy - i love to work with kids and don't mind if they are not really roleplaying.
I think it changes the game from a hobby to something less if both the DM and the Players can't have the game they want. This is the intention of my GM style, I want everyone at the table to have fun. If I'm getting paid, then my fun is no longer important and I have to keep my "clients" happy.
I agree. It's incredibly important that I'm having fun while running the game because that's when I bring out my best GM-ing.
Where I think we differ slightly is that if I'm sacrificing my fun for the fun of the players, it probably means that they are just the wrong players for me and I should refer them to another GM who may be more up their alley. And also think my fun is important during a paid game. It's professional to have fun! After all, if your GM is not having fun and looking like he'd rather be doing something else, what's the rest of the table going to look like?
basically, if you like to dm dungeons and dragons 5e, give this a shot
I've been a proGM for about a year, after running games as an amateur for 42 years. Currently, I have one pro game a week and I'm looking at adding one more if I can find the players. I also run twice a month for family and friends. I'm physically disabled and can't drive because of it, so running games online allows me to work part-time where I wouldn't be able to work at all. I'm in a very privileged position -- my spouse makes enough so I don't have to work. I run professionally because I enjoy it and because it pays for my hobby. Because of my situation, I can be very particular in what I run. I run primarily horror games, so I'm very much a niche GM. I'd be happy D&D for a one-shot or special event (like a convention game), but I've never had the opportunity. I wouldn't want to run a full campaign of it, paid or not. That's not entirely true; I just bought **Curse of Straad**
My biggest suggestion for people looking to turn pro is: professional GMing is a business and you need to treat it like one. You are now self-employed and you have a business. You might want to get a couple books on running micro-businesses. My go-to book is **Small-Time Operator: How to Start Your Own Business, Keep Your Books, Pay Your Taxes, and Stay Out of Trouble** by Bernard Kamoroff.
I'm a Paid DM (I won't say Pro because I often have impostor syndrome) and I spent 20 years STing in the on line space for free. The money is okay but I use it as a side gig and my home group is all DMs.. So a good way to off set that is when I'm running a lot of paid games I make sure the home group has a story teller who isn't me and we change up the system from what I'm running (its a good way to test out new stuff) but I can tell you running 20 years with no pay and organizing large world events I'd rather run less and get paid and set expectations of the worlds I run and turn a few away then not. I also tend to charge less if it is a group that is "Giving their DM a break"
Started Pro GMing during lockdown in 2020. I love it, I just wish it was a bit more lucrative! I'm ready to stay-at-home dad & GM full time.
I am not a new player, and appreciate my pro DMs SO much. I moved from NYC to rural New York and online play is my only option to play. While I GM for my friends, none of them GM. Also GMing IS WORK! It may be work you enjoy, but it takes valuable time and effort.
Nice video. I walked away from a recording contract with a band for the same reason. Music was enjoyable as a hobby, but as a profession I started to hate it. I'd never do that to TTRPGS, GMing is my happy place.
I wonder, if you professionally DM, how much homebrewing do you do versus just running a module? I could see how if you're homebrewing everytime it could definitely sap you, but if most groups you DM ask for you to run a module I would assume that really cuts down on prep time and other resources you would have to come up with yourself. And if homebrew is what most clients want, I don't know if this makes total sense, but I would simply create an entire world or universe, where any adventure/campaign could take place so that I don't have to continuously come up with completely new things and possibly recycle/refurbish unused ideas. And in this way you could have a really solid world which you have built through many adventures, reducing the effort needed when contextualizes your next campaign, but maybe that not be as creatively stimulating.
I think paid dungeon Masters have a very important role in the hobbies ecology. People who oppose something like this don't understand the clients it's for. A paid DM is not for the average Cheeto muncher that farts in your basement, it's for the busy professionals who need a break from their everyday life who have the money to spend and who are willing to put out money for a good product. People's time is worth something and people are willing to pay money for it. People have very little time to themselves. Don't want to mess with scheduling, conflicts and banter. They want to get what they pay for.
It reminds me of when I was working at a gamestore, people would often dream about painting minis for Games Workshop.
And finally someone did! He was a great painter so... but he told me later that it ruined painting for him. Painting was his relaxed space, it was his hobby. Suddenly it was his job and he was simply painting far more than he wanted to and not the stuff he wanted to paint the way he wanted to... no it was just non-stop work!
As JackAttack wrote You start hating something You love. Its my only drawback for professional DMs
I didn't know you could be a professional Dungeon Master. That is pretty cool but definitely a hard job trying to keep everything fresh and exciting
Well Ben, as someone who appreciates your content here on Ghostfire. If you ever decide an international game would be something you're interested in. My group would be more than happy to pay you! 😊
I'm all for paid GMs. Entertainment is something we are willing to pay for and so paying for the GM is not out of the question. I try to find ways to 'pay' my free GMs a few times a year just to show my appreciation to the work they do. I have considered paying for GM to run special occasions for me, I'd love to hire a quality GM to run a one-shot for a birthday or anniversary party. I think Convention GMs should be paid at least a modest fee or granted free admission for DMing 2-3 games. I have pondered the idea of running a few on-line games for spending money, but I personally wouldn't pay money to for my skill level (and not to brag, but I think I'm equally good to several DMs that I have played with).
I think it is a great idea, it is hard to find a committed Dungeon Master as long as you aren't charging some outrageous price i am completely cool with it
I totally get it brother. A job can burn you out. A hobby doesn't. Know your limits and your passions in life. And you needed a "Pain in the Ass Tax".
Thanks for the insight. Subbed! I cant say much of the subject.Though logically Imho.. Its totally fine to get paid IF its your dedicated job! As hobby D.M?? Your payment is joy, food, drink, heck dnd supplements/ minis/ cards and the like 👍Im grassgreen D.M but I want to play more as a player first to get more experience under my belt. But thats difficult since the supposed groups be it D.M and/ or players.. well their schedules and life hindrances are more unstable than wild atoms! I dont want to be cash paid unless losing my clerk job..
Ran through the initial local shutdowns online. Ran as many as 6 games a week at times, and pretty much burned myself out.
I will run on call occasionally for some of my old clients but 99% of my gaming is at casual tables with friends these days
I already turned my passion into a profession once (I started testing computer games) and it definitely spoiled my joy of it.
I don't like the concept of being a professional DM. I once charged a small fee from the team, but only because I needed to purchase additional materials. Now I don't take money from players and I'm unlikely to join a paid game, but I won't hold anyone back either.
A bar in my town gives free drinks and food (within reason, my tab is never over $25) if you run a a game on their D&D night.
Just my perspective, DnD is a place for me to escape reality, have fun, and be surrounded by good friends that share the same passion for this hobby, so adding in a pay to play system just makes DnD a bit dreadful. I usually dread going into work and I dont wanna feel that way about a game that I feel so passionate about and put so much genuine effort into.
Secondly, I, myself, sink a lot of money into DnD and know players that sink hundreds of US dollars into the game (book, dice, minis, etc.) that dont even DM, why would i make them pay extra $100 to $150, or however much, just to play. They gain their entry to my games by all the product that they were willing to buy. My thought is "I've already sank so much into materials and now I got to pay more just to play". This is my view on it, and why I'd never charge my players to play at my table. I can respect those trying to hustle and make money doing what they love, those are the best kind of jobs, the one were you go to work happy.
I've run two games as a Pro DM and my clients thought they were fun but I decided to stop after that. I quickly felt al of the issues you've described and decided to stop before the game will lost it's fun.
Running now some TTRPGs for pay in the Israel for some local community. Found that for me works better or open table stile. Westmarches for OSR stile games when the random tables can help me. Or to split between different game systems. CP in one day DnD on another etc. Really think that all GM should be payed.
I think someone should mention that paying DMs goes way, way back to the early days of D&D where TSR had to pay people to DM at tournaments in conventions because most people wanted to play those, not DM them. Also in the early days conventions were a huge part of TSR's revenue.
You could make a pretty good argument that without paid DMs TSR might not have survived the early days. They really needed that convention revenue to grow.
I know a couple of professional DMs, and the ones less likely to get burnt out are the ones that are getting paid the most in my experience. 300 bucks for a 3.5 hour session is more than fair for a table of 4 (possibly 5 sometimes). I know two 300 USDs and one 300 Euro, and they have been at the capacity that they want to run for several years now. Considering the cost of going out and getting entertainment, 100 an hour is a good and fair amount to split for the evening in my opinion. Especially with online helping out now days as well. It is probably hard to get to the point of higher fees, but if you can then I think it is worth it.
I have been a player in 4 different paid games. Same players we all met playing in a free online game and wanted to stick together , couldnt find a GM that wanted to run for free a group of 5, so we paid for it. We had 2 DMs that were great (ontime, great content, seemed to know their stuff) then we had 2 that were awful (late or last minute cancel, and didnt know the vtt and was trying to wing it terribly, the content they were doing was just awful) So some GMs are worth money and some are NOT. If you are a single player there are so many places to find free games, and don't be afraid to try a few. I found my forever friends and am in 2 free games with online friends and LOVE it.
so I was an online pro DM for a short time here is my experience: it became work.
I like having paid GMs.
i DM for my group and I usually pay to be just a player and it works for me.
I don’t judge people if this is there only source of income is to be a professional dm. But if they have other options and don’t need the extra cash then don’t charge for d and d. I run games online and am finally playing again almost every day of the week I love this game and I love my players and being a players and honestly regardless of financial situation everyone should be able to try this game.
Monetizing your passion is often a quick ticket to losing your love for it. I've learned that the hard way with music (which I no longer do professionally) and for that reason I'd be really wary of running games for pay. I like to do it for my friends, but for strangers who then feel entitled to behave badly? Nah.
I do think that pro GMs are perfectly valid - there's a market and people who want to play but don't know anyone who can run a game may have no other options - but I don't think I would ever want to be one.
Think about this idea: as a youngster, instead of having a boring baby sitter come over to keep an eye on you while mom and dad go on date night, they hire a GM to come run a 3hr session once a week for you and your siblings! That sounds awesome and I would've loved that!
I haven't hired a GM (because I always GM), but its definitely a valid service to offer. People pay others for all sorts of things, no reason this hobby is any different. I think people get weird about it because it is a more personal hobby than maybe being a golf caddy or something like that. I think the most key part would be trying to find a group where the GM fits in well with, and can run the game they want without having to make too many alterations to cater to the players.
I volunteer (not paid) at the local library and run sessions for kids every other week over the summer and its a bunch of fun. It can be a little stressful sometimes, but honestly the more I do it the easier it gets. I could definitely envision being a paid GM, but I run a specific style of campaign that the players would have to agree to. Thanks for the insight.
I have no problem with professional DMs. My big issue is when those professional DMs get burned out / lose the love of the game. I started DMing in order for my DM to take a break and be able to play. I noticed that in 1 month he was invigorated to DM again. Players need to help out their DMs.
I'm not sure if I'd ever want to charge players as a GM, but as a player I'm open to contributing to the GM. I've never played at a table, only online, so I often have to search for games with filters on paid and free and I think that would also put me off wanting to charge, but I can't ignore that I'd love to just play whenever and not worry about a job. But that's just wishful thinking😅
I have been a Gencon DM for Baldwin Games because I am out of the greater Indianapolis area It is fun but tiring to me. I am Dyslexic as I have to memorize alot more. People are kinda shocked I run with stat block note cards and no DM screen I have to keep a copy of the mod but I rarely use it.
i always find it funny how people say they should never have to pay for a gm. yet none of them ever want to take a turn gming. if you can get paid to run a game that is awesome. and you should make that money.
I've been a pro GM; I charged $10 per hour per person, so generally $40 to $60 an hour. It was just supplemental income alongside my full-time tech job.
The whole reason I was able to do this is because the groups wanted to play 2nd Edition and 3.5 Edition rules, and there aren't many people who know that. But I've been playing since 1987 and I not only know those systems well but I have a ton of both book and homebrew adventures.
The pandemic put an end to it, but I'm thinking of starting again. The groups were almost universally older people, for obvious reasons.
I'm not *opposed* to the concept of paid GM, but mostly I'm confused by it... at my table we have our "regular" GM but we also take turns, understanding that we're all in it for the fun so nobody feels like it's super high pressure if you want to GM.
I do think this is essentially great for everyone, because pro DMs SHARE. They share about their knowledge of their games and their techniques of hosting a game. It's like auto companies are more willing to innovate than car hobbysts.
But it's a job. Jobs are supplying/answering for one or multiple demands. Jobs wouldn't be fun all the time.
It made it more like a job....maybe because it was a job.
You could replace “professional GM” with “professional martial arts instructor“ and the conversation would be similar, especially for more traditional arts like judo. In the US, judo is often a side gig taught in a community space for little or no compensation. As a result judo is dying in the US, especially compared to Brazilian jiujitsu, which is dominating the US thanks to treating it as a professional endeavor with relatively higher cost classes and full time instructors. 🙏🎲🥋
Not a professional DM here, but I run a session every week at a store and get store credit. Just once a week I can say sometimes I'm mentally exhausted from it lol. I can't imagine having to run multiple games a week never mind a day lol. I will say for me though it is always about the players and seeing the joy on their faces when they do something cool and get the final hit on the big bad or escape the bad situation with some smooth talking. Truthfully I'm still new (only been DMing for 2+ years) and learning. I would say to anyone reading this and getting burnout, just take a break. You will likely find yourself during said break thinking up some new cool thing to throw at your players or just getting the passion back all together. As weird as it may sound as well, I would encourage you as a DM to go play some sessions instead of running. ^-^
I had run games at conventions and in stores, but that is now quite a few years ago. It sure taught me lots of things, but my preference is to have more personal stories, often drama or horror, and those just work better if I know the players and everybody at the table is playing in a proactive manner and not just waiting to the plot to drop on them. That is why charging money for it would create that expectation that I have to entertain people, and that is simply not how I run games. And of course that is also not why I would pay to play. However I can understand that people who see themselves as entertainers to make that their job, as well as players to pay for such a service like they would for any other entertainment.
I don't get why running RPGs for money is somehow a bad thing. A DM is an entertainer. He puts in the work and does the hard stuff most people don't want to do, in order to entertain others. You pay to watch a movie, you pay for videogames, you pay to buy a novel, but you refuse to pay someone who prepares and runs for you a personalized adventure, tailor-made for your own tastes and sensibilities? That's a double standard if I ever saw one.
How was the that first proDM Session you ran? Did it differ from your normal DMing?
I am a profession GM and I agree, it can be less fun when you "have to play" it. I currently run part time for groups at my local game store and some online games but I don't think I'd like to do it full time.
Perhaps you should do a video about the evil groups you ran for. Names redacted to protect the innocent, of course...
Hay mate love your work. Is that 90 - 120 per person for three hours ? Or is that cost for the group over all ?
Cost of the group, overall. While I know many Pro-GM's charge per player, I always charged per hour. The reason was so I dependably knew what my income for a session would be, and I was never out of pocket if 1 or 2 players couldn't make it a session.
GM'ing takes a lot out of you. Players don't realize all of the out of session prep that goes into games. I've never been paid to run a game and can only imagine the extra pressure.
Burnout would be the first problem. Further the money you can charge vs the hours you put into planning a game wouldn't be nearly enough. I've thought about hanging my shingle out, but first off there are things I'd feel I'd need (a certain level of improv and acting training for instance) before I'd be comfortable running a game professionally. But even if I did all that, for me I don't think the cost benefit analysis would add up. And it would become a job, so the biggest part of what makes the game so much fun would be drained out of it for me.
Considering how much time and effort goes into GMing, I think paying them should be more commonplace. Or, even if someone wants to do it just for fun, normalize the players compensating them in other ways, like snacks, and drinks. Have players that keeps up with scheduling or notes. Having the norm of 1 person spending hours prepping and 3-6 people, going over all their characters, and items, and keeping all the notes, while also being the go-to for learning the rules. Then everyone else just showing up and expecting to have everything ready for them, is more damaging to the hobby.
Given I suffer burnout running two games in a week, I can't imagine running every day of the week, even if I was paid. But then, I don't prepare much and I tend to run very off-the-cuff, relying on knowing my players and the system I run. Lockdowns made me the only GM for a while, which lead to said burnout.
I'm not sure how I feel about someone getting paid for the same thing. Sounds like a nightmare scenario to me (As a GM) in a lot of ways.
I've never made over 20,000 a year at "real" jobs. America sucks. If I could double my income playing, it would be amazing. I currently run 2 games, one I do get paid for, but it's only $5. LOL I personally would rather play with friends, but most of mine passed away a decade ago. Now, the closest thing I have to playing with friends is being a paid DM as it's nearly impossible to find players. Especially at my age, I'm 50! Most people near me work 2 jobs to survive, no time for fun
I would love to get paid to run games, and could survive on a respectable schedule with some of my other incomes. I mostly feel like my digital setup and skills are woefully lacking, so who knows
I also am about to run a game in grim hollow for my friends
I wanted to start Dming full time as I love this hobby. Ive been playing and Dming on and off for about 5 years and I have genuinely give this a lot of thought.
If anyone does have some pointers and pros/cons I would love to hear them!
I'm a paid DM, but I don't believe it makes a good living without another source of income, unless you have a very low cost of living.
I have a day job, and I run in person and online in evenings and weekends. It helps support my family through hard times and I still enjoy D&D, but I do walk the edge of Burnout at times.
What do you want to know?
@TheBoyFromNorfolk How long have you been doing this for? And how did you get started? Was it just a case of advertising on social media or some other way? Oh I'm still going to be working, but having some extra income never hurt.