Tutorial: Landing Heavy EDF RC Jets w/ Freewing F-14, LVC Crash Landing
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- I took up my Freewing F-14 80mm using the afterburner units from Larry via fiftytwoeightyrc.com and got some nice relaxed flying in, even with a random fellow chatting with me.
Toward the end, I made the fatal mistake of not listening to my voltage callouts and went up knowing that I should've accepted the harder landing at 21:05. As a result, I predictably lost control, stalled, and slammed into the ground. This broke the fuselage at two points - right behind the metal plates of the wings and right at the front where the nose connects to the fuselage, along with destroying the nose gear mount. I could have repaired it but I'd rather be safe with something that weighs 14 pounds and flies overhead, so I've ordered $300 of replacement parts to get back up into the air again.
This is a tutorial on both what to do and what NOT to do. Don't ignore your voltage callouts trying to chase a perfect landing. Better to take a jet home with a less than perfect landing than it is to take a broken jet home that needs serious repairs.
Pick up your own 5280 TrueFire afterburners via fiftytwoeightyrc.com/products...
#rcplane #tutorial #radiocontrol
0:00 Intro
1:24 2x4000 50c Takeoff
2:27 FCS Mixing Adjustment Necessary
3:05 Wing Sweep Pass
3:45 Low Speed Flyby
4:04 Go-around
4:45 T&G
5:35 T&G 2
6:20 Landing w/ Spoilers
7:12 Thoughts
7:48 Spoilers
8:12 Preflight
8:33 2x 5200 Zeee 50c Takeoff
9:40 Wing Sweep Pass
10:30 Visitor
11:30 Flat Spin
12:02 Inverted
12:20 High Speed Pass
12:46 Landing
13:52 2x 5200 Zeee 100c Takeoff
15:22 Landing Tutorial Section
16:16 T&G 3, Advice
16:52 T&G 4, Advice
17:31 T&G 5, Advice
18:33 T&G 6
19:20 T&G 7
20:12 T&G 8, Advice
20:49 Foreshadowing
21:05 T&G 9 - Should Have Stopped Here
21:24 Low Voltage Cutoff, Stall, Crash
21:55 Aftermath, Thoughts
Freewing F-14 Tomcat, Freewing, 80mm EDF, EDF Jets, Motion RC, Grumman F-14 Tomcat, the rc geek, freewing f-14, freewing tomcat, fast rc jets, super scale jets, 80mm edf jet, radio control, variable-sweep wing, rc airplanes landing, rc plane, rc planes, Tutorial: Landing Heavy EDF Jets w/ Bonus "Listen to Voltage Callouts" Crash Landing, learn to fly f14 - Розваги
Great video! There's lots of good landings then there is that one. 😃🛩👍
Thank you Gary! I've been watching you for a bit, very surprised to see a bigger name on YT hanging with me. 😊
Welcome Grandpa Gary!
How are you feeling on your Covid?
@@old-rcplane-phart much better
Youre the reason my 80mm f14 is on the way! I never even flown any rc plane before. Scared but looks fun! Watching all your videos before it arriving.
Make sure you watch the follow-up vid if you didn't get a chance to see it yet! ua-cam.com/video/7hgLGVFSDXE/v-deo.html
@TwoBrosRC definitely saw that & took notes, mine should be here in 2 weeks 🙏🫡
Love how that plane looks in the sky!! The wing sweep and the afterburners are so cool. Thanks for your sacrifice that others might learn. A great reminder that when it comes to low voltage it's better to take a bad landing and live to fly another day.
At least my mistake stands up as an example of what not to do. Thanks Derek!
Just found the channel and love watching these TnGs. they're just so effortless and smooth I feel like im getting better just by watching
Right up until I hit LVC, then it all goes to hell in a handbasket. Thanks for watching bud!
Among all youtubers, you are the one who lands the best! So smooth!
Thanks man!
Another awesome video! You’ve quickly become one of my favorite channels on UA-cam! Take care and be safe brother!
Thanks buddy! 🖖
Jon, thanks for posting all of these videos. I realize it is a huge time commitment to record, edit, upload and not to mention the cash involved. I really appreciate your willingness to share. Greetings from Charlotte :)
Hey man! Thanks for the kind words. It definitely ain't cheap - though I do get sponsored items like afterburners and discounted aircraft from my LHS to demonstrate, but a lot of what I fly is still out of my own pocket - including this model. Likewise - I appreciate having people like you as part of my community. Makes it worth the effort!
First F14 I've seen fly. Very enjoyable and instructional cheers
Thanks Nick! I've got more content on it recently too.
Chapters are AWESOME. Please keep doing it..
Will do, buddy. Thank you!
Cool Video, we learn just from our own mistakes. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Spectators always come up where WE fly. Usually standing in front of ME, million questions. Normal ppl don't have any idea how much concentration is involved in flying anything! Especially when its time to come DOWN! 😬
But, never know til they ask. Price of being famous my friend! 👍
(tho too, the other flyboys *buddies* point to me to talk to everyone. Thats ok. From many years of getting permission to hunt on various properties, i can talk to/with anyone! 😁 Im just THAT way!)
Chatting is OK - I find that people tend to get into the hobby when pilots aren't cranky and mean about being talked to. Nothing turns people away more than someone snapping at them as they ask innocuous questions. A lot of people don't know how mentally challenging it is to fly and think in three dimensions at all times - just a "I'll chat as soon as I'm down" can go a long way.
Thank you for sharing this! I'm sorry to see it go down.
Anytime. She's already being rebuilt to be better and lighter, and wired less complicated with a CG that's further aft. Can't wait.
@@TwoBrosRC awesome!!
Now that was some spot on landing, nice flying.
Thank you!
Great content and skill man. Never thought of programming spoilers. That nose pop-up on rollout (from catching a divot) has caught me more than once. Running full span flaps too. I'm on my 3rd. I always plan to have an F-14. Hope FW never discontinues it. Subscribed! BTW- Keep the chapters going.. great feature.
Thanks man! Glad to see you enjoy the chapters. I put a lot of effort into them so it's great to know people actually enjoy the content.
21:52 Ouch! so sorry to see that happen Jon.
Wow! I definitely subscribed! I really enjoy your content and how you talk through your flying :) I’m always looking for ways to improve my edf flying and you have some great points!
Thanks Thomas! Happy to have you onboard.
Man, you're really making me think hard about getting another one! I flew mine off grass before the RC Informer had his grass mods and it didn't like it at all!! Now we've finally been given permission to fly off the runways the original Tomcats took their very first flights off of out here in Calverton NY!! You grew up with them in Afterburner, as did I!!! BUT.............they were constantly flying over my house as a kid seeing as Grumman was the next town over! Loved every second of it!!
You should definitely get one! They're expensive, sure, but once they're set up correctly (ua-cam.com/video/CIBCqHt9v4o/v-deo.html) they fly really well. I wish I could have seen them fly more like you did - I only got to see one when I was in middle school in 1997 and it was flying overhead at a good distance.
Its really is a cool plane that unfortunatly takes a bit of modding to make it handle those hard landing or grass ops. I followed rc informers mods with the full length battery tray and larger wing platters tied into the main gear. Its taken quite a bit of abuse with no signs of seperation or cracking around the landing gear or wing deck. Even manged to get the thing driftibg side ways in the grass trying at a crosswind landing and only the right main gear was bent beyond repair. Mount and airframe were just fine
Sorry to see that happened and thank you for your tutorial. Great flying as usual. You just ran out of power.
The Big 🧠 information is always appreciated.
Big 🧠 wouldn't have crashed under LVC 😂
@@TwoBrosRC
Besides that part 😉
@@ItsAboutTime4Smoke Gotta take the good with the bad. Thankfully, the bad illustrates a very important point: LVC will kill your jet. Land before it kicks in. Once you hear voltage approaching 21v around 60% throttle, you should plan to get down immediately before you're stuck landing a flying brick.
Glad I found this video. I have the FMS 800mm t28 and was looking up how to land planes with high wing loading. I was flying today for too long and the battery died and crashed on the go around… that plane comes in pretty fast
I love the Chapters!
Great to hear! I didn't seriously plan to remove them - it's worth the effort so you guys don't have to dig through a video to find what you actually want to watch.
I remember that game on Sega, it was one of my favorites too.
great lesson learned
Very nicely executed approaches and landings throughout your videos. In fact, I don't recall seeing anyone more consistent. You aren't the first to not follow your own advice. We've all done that and paid for it. Given that you chose to fly a non-standard downwind over the runway rather than a normal left hand downwind for your final circuit, I assume that you were contemplating a precautionary downwind landing. That made your final turnaround more challenging. I recall when I was getting my private pilots licence my instructor was fond of reminding me that "Altitude above, runway behind, and "just a second ago"" are all pretty useless in aviation. Good luck with the repairs. And your transparency in your videos is refreshing.
Thanks William! I try not to be one of those YT types that gets a free/discounted model, flies it once, talks it up as being "amazing" and "incredible", then sells it and gets another discounted/free airplane to repeat the cycle. I want you guys to get the most out of your airframes. This is a jet I paid a lot of money for - both initially and $300 for repairs - so I intend to get way more flights out of it in order to really show that it's a capable airframe.
You're correct in that I made a serious mistake on my final flight - I should have taken a poor distant landing on the taxiway instead of using my huge throws to stall it into the ground as gently as possible. I basically panicked and didn't think straight. It's easy to see where I made the critical error right as you can hear LVC kicking in as it flew past - it would've saved me a ton of money to just take the rough taxiway landing instead of the crash landing.
@@TwoBrosRCGood lessons in this for all of us who fly. Thanks for sharing.
@@frank-vq4mx Thank you sir!
Good thing you went to the left on the last lap. The next to the last lap when you went to the right was pretty scary. I would stay to the east of the taxiway and never fly over the hangars/automotive shop.
Awesome plane. My brother in law flew the last f14 to Farmingdale airport in New York
awesome video. I really want one.
I'm with you Jon love the Tomcat, wish one of the company's would make the F-111 Aardvark love the swing wings..
ANY, ALL crash(es) suck. At least foam, it goes back together so much better than wood! Back n the day, 20+ years ago, after a 'hard landing', we took a trash bag TO the site. Wasn't anything left. Keep the engine, rx, & servos. Everything else went in the dumpster. Much cheapER now! 👍 (Thank goodness!) I wasn't big into the whole electric/foam scene a year+ ago. Didn't take long to find out how much easier/better it is NOW! 👍
I'm glad to hear you like zeee batts. I've had several zeee lipos and thought they were very good all the way around but I dont have tons of experience with brands of lipo batts and zeees are cheep, so....i think zeees offer high perfomance. I'm impressed with the 50% throttle rotation, that big beast has some lift!! Also the rotations in general are quick. I mean 14 pounds really is big. I have the freewing f-5 80mm h.p. I recommend the f5 heavily. Its so fast and the sound the 9 blade h.p. set up has really a great trust/wine sound. I'm sory about the wreck, I like how the instant she got weird you called the crash. You did great with her, she looks like a tough bird. At the end she headed over and in a bit fast, so looked good to me on the walk of shame, after reviewing the results. Your freewing tomcat has to be top notch cool factor bird!! Well even the best have those days, apparently. Thanks for the content, Jon.😉👌🎉💯
They're definitely great batteries for the price, well worth it if you're not interested in overpaying. With regard to the crash, yeah, experience tells me that a lack of thrust coupled with a heavy aircraft equals a likely crash. It's unfortunate but I'm looking forward to the rebuild.
@@TwoBrosRC ya for sure, I knew too, about the only th8ng you could have done was immediately try to roll her over off that last pitch up and just dive to the flare while throwing your gear up but it all happens so.... As you know.... FAST!! And I wasn't flying her, so ya your a pro, she must not have wanted off the high a.o.a at the beginning of the end. You were just so calm when you said "guys I think im about to crash this jet" I would have said, oh no dont you do it !@$:!! 👍👍great advice by the way, I love the jets and know basically what your saying. I have some of my own strategies but good advice and really reinforcing to watch and hear you explain, thanks👍
I do not disable my LVC but I do reduce it to 3v and set for a hard cut-off (because it's more noticeable). This works only if you can hear your edfs. Though I only hit lvc twice, I only have to cycle throttle (at lower power than previous) to bring power back online. It will only be good if you are already well into the landing pattern... your just extending the glide.
Yeah, the solution really for me is just never to push it and take the crap landing if I get one. Learned my lesson hardcore on this vid.
Holly smokes! Quite a nice safe « crash » (thanks to high throws)
Never ignore a telemetry alarm 😅🙈
Definitely learn from my mistake and use it as a tutorial of what to, and what not to do. Thanks Arthur!
They should give you gratis models for your service to the RC hobby community. Cheers and Bravo!
Haha, I wish! Unfortunately this all comes out of my income, but I enjoy helping people so I'll keep up with it - and next time I won't chase that perfect landing so I won't have a ton of repair work to do.
Great flying demo Jon! Sorry for your issue, but that was more than a months worth of landings for the average guy. I've recently been thinking of how I am using various telemetry to determine end of flight and wondering which of my methods is the best to use. Have never had a model go into LVC and recently quit allowing the esc to allow any limiting factors based on battery voltage. I track mah consumed, collective voltage and on some models,.......I track individual cell voltage in addition to mah and collective voltage. The trick seems to be finding that voltage that will get us one more go around and landing. I'm having sucess using 3.4 V/cell or 20.46 collective voltage
I'm going to look into disabling LVC on all models. I'd rather smoke a pack or two instead of a model given the price disparity.
Man, so sorry. That was just heart breaking to watch. Incredible plane and skill, just to run out of battery was so hard to watch. My condolences!
that was some beautiful flying and you were down on the runway at 21:12 , but obviously you saw something you didn't like, and it made you go around one last time...... what I find pretty amazing is just prior to that , you actually talked about the weak points that could break on that heavier jet and unfortunately that seemed to happened .... is it possible to set up some type of LVC emergency warning callout , letting you know you only have about 30 seconds to get it down .....it seems many EDF crashes I have seen are due to low battery power ..........great video, thanks
I think the critical error was wearing my sunglasses - it was darker than it should have been so I thought I saw a harder landing and wanted to go around to redeem it. Unfortunately that was a catastrophic decision - but I've got parts coming in very soon and will be rebuilding better than before.
I've got a pretty good idea of weak spots from hundreds of flight hours - the F-14 is unfortunately very weak behind the wing brace. I'm tempted to pick up the wing platter upgrade for it just to make it structurally sound going forward.
Yep, I hate it when strangers approach and talk to you in the middle of your flight when you're alone. Happens to me all the time on my AMA flying field. And the scary part for me is some people approached from behind my back, startling me.
I don't mind being chatted with at all when I'm flying - I do mind when someone rolls up on a dirt bike and then plants themselves next to my active runway, though. Having to thread the needle with him around really messed up my flight plan.
Nice touch and go's. How do you get your voltage callouts while flying? Have you ever done a video showing how to set up voltage callouts while flying?
I don't think I have dedicated a single upload just to voltage callouts. The F-35 setup I created should have some info on it. I've got poor rainy weather coming up for the next week so I'll probably look into recording some tutorial content for you guys.
Hi John. Thanks for the nice videos of the f14. Too bad of the last part of this video. I am setting up my f14 with as3x and safe. I am using fixed gain settings and safe settings because the lack of channels 8channel setup. Whats is your advise on the gains for as3x and safe. Mine are rol 40 pitch 50 and yaw 60.
Thanks for the nice flying
Set roll gains low, roughly 20 to 40, and set pitch to 30 to 60 and yaw approximately the same. You can eyeball it by throttling up quickly and moving the jet to simulate turbulence. With no FCS mixing possibility on your setup, you'll want maybe 4 to 8mm of deflection at most to prevent it from oscillating. With anything, start low and work up higher until you're confident with it.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks for your advise Jon. I start low on the gains. Do you fly the f14 on safe sometimes. Hoe does that work.
Great from a windy Holland. Force 9-10. Gerard
I only use SAFE to regain orientation - never to fly, generally, unless I'm flying at 400ft and want to keep the wings level while my GoPro is onboard recording the flight.
Nice flying brother, specially the touch and goes. I heard from your radio AS3X. Which brand or model did you use? Love to hear from you. Ty
We fly Spektrum IX20SE
I crashed my Freewing Venom because I grabbed an uncharged battery that was sitting next to a charged one! Live and learn. I have a bunch of telemetry gear but I was lazy and didn't install it. Now I'm being a bit more cautious. Just set up an F5. Voltage, rssi, gps telemetry all programmed with alarms. Redundant receivers with failsafe programmed to gyro when activated. But I'm sure it's downfall will be some brain fart of mine..
Telemetry is life - I won't fly without it unless it's a dinky model like the Aeroscout that'll glide forever. On any model I can get it set up with, I fly with voltage callouts so I know when to plan for landing. On bigger jets like this one, I also use a remote receiver to boost signal gains. As you said, though, stupidity is a bigger downer of aircraft than lack of telemetry is. Had I taken the landing prior I wouldn't have a $300 repair bill right now. That'll be the last time I make this mistake!
And thats how i crashed my viper 70.
Thats a bummer man. I did the same thing with my su35 a few years back due to that "just one more" type of thinking😅. Lvc hit while i was doing a sweet slow high alpha down the runway. The right motor lvc decided to go before the left and torqued the plane right and smashed pretty good into the ground. Now lvc is always set to lowest possible or turned off. Would rather damage a battery instead of stuffing a plane into the ground.
100% behind you on that line of thinking. Batteries < models.
The chapters are a nice touch. You said you didn't have much juice left and then greased the landing, so whydja go back up? Sorry to see it go down man thats unfortunate. Hope it's not bad. Did you sweep wings back and bring gear up before it hit?
Felt too hard to me so I tried to go back up to redeem it. We see how well that worked out. I swept the wings and brought the gear up after the crash so I could get it into the trunk.
You mentioned your apprehensiveness to do too much inverted cause you saw the wings flexing. I am curious if you ever tried a negative g pushover? Everytime i do one on mine the left wing does a snap towards the ventral side. I could be inverted or not, but i give more than a mild amount if down elevator and the left wing drops everytime. Played around with balancing all the control surfaces with no luck.
I haven't yet. That's something I'm going to do once I've got it rebuilt, get some outside loops going. I think I've been too easy on the airframe in general aside from the cobras and flat spins. If your wing is dropping, have you checked the wing box? If the wings aren't stiff when extended (you'll hear the mechanism strain slightly to lock the wings) then what's likely happening is that the wing is moving and you're losing lift. I can feel it when I go to sweep the wings back so it's definitely something that you should check for.
@@TwoBrosRC i will check into that, thanks
How is this plane handle with the wings swept back? Looks way cool but I’m thinking it don’t like slow field type flying when swept.
It'll fly slow when swept. It's just touchier to fly.
Hi Jon, are the Hitec 85s micro servos? I’m going to upgrade mine after your advice, just need to get the right type. Thanks man!
Additionally did you need to reverse one? If you did, how is this done?
They're HS-85MG servos that I reversed in the receiver.
@@TwoBrosRC thanks Jon!
Hey Jon, I wanted to ask about the voltage telemetry- did you connect the sensor only to one of the ESCs? If so, which one?
Thanks! ❤
It's only connected to the ESC that's got the BEC lead attached to it.
@@TwoBrosRC ok got it! 🙏🏻
The 5200mah 100C 6S and what is the voltage 22.2V, Ifound some but need the additiional info.
Zeee 5200 50c packs.
Do you recommend the modified brace they sell
No need for it unless you're planning to fly off grass constantly.
Nice video Jon. Having a retired Air Force pilot for a dad, he hasn’t been much help in landing EDF’s. (He thinks I’m missing a chromosome or there was a mixup at Labor & Delivery and actually the son of a Naval aviator)
I was curious, when you were on final, landing flaps deployed, leveling your wings, at what throttle rate we’re you at? (Guessing at around 100 yards out) I have on my controller when I reach 25% throttle the ix12 tells me “Timer Off”. At that point (flaps down) I’m done with the elevator. But i never reduce the power below 25%. I’ll go up on power if it looks like I’m not going to make the runway.
Whatever I’m doing, it wrong. I told Arthur not long ago, my count on broken nose gear pins, and ruined nose gear and struts is laughable.
3 replacement nose gear pins on the F-16, a-10, and 2 on the T-33. And multiple times on the Marlin and xt-7a I’ve damaged the nose gear strut.
When I initially drop flaps, I trade altitude for airspeed until I start holding the nose up to touch the mains. About 25% throttle is used to maintain the glide slope and keep the nose up for a gentle landing. If you're having gear issues, that's a sign you're coming in too hard - which can be alleviated by using throttle management techniques. I can see the Navy pilot comments now. ;) It's a skill you have to maintain to touch gently, hence why you see so much touch & go content on my channel. I like to practice my skills to keep them refined, otherwise I risk damage to my equipment.
10 to 25% throttle on the glideslope will let you land without smashing up the gear. Full throws (like as far as they can physically travel) on all surfaces, especially on the stabilators, will help here too. Without enough throw it can be hard if not impossible to flare correctly prior to touchdown. Check my F-14 setup to see what I'm referring to - you can get an idea of my gear-based rates and how I can maintain a flare even on this nose-heavy jet.
@@TwoBrosRC Mrs Henderson and the kids are headed to the beach Friday thru Monday. I’m headed the field with the Eflite 70mm Viper, Eflite a-10, Eflite F-16, Freewing T-33 and Me-262. (And a pocket of nose gear pins) I’m taking the cargo trailer, a cooler, grill and tent. I got 4 days and 5 planes to get landings figured out. I’ll report back Monday.
Set up crow on the 70mm using my guide (ua-cam.com/video/uUOJhLrSibw/v-deo.html) and you'll be able to flare it properly for landing, otherwise it'll porpoise and/or drop a wing in an asymmetric stall. Let me know how it goes, and if I can provide any assistance I'll gladly do so.
You have to reduce the gain of the gyroscope.
The gyro gains are fine as far as I can see.
Why did the voltage shutoff when it was 21.6 volts? I thought you would be able to go to 19 volts. 7min of flight time is impressive though!
The stock ESCs are set up with LVC that's very aggressive - they shut power down rather than risk damaging the batteries. Flight time is great, for sure, so long as you're only doing landing practice since that takes only 25 to 50% throttle most of the time - anything that requires 75% and above will reduce flight times significantly.
@@TwoBrosRC how would you change the LVC level?
I think you can throttle program the ESC, or at the very least you can just a programming card.
I use the hobbywing program card and turn it to low.
all those moments that are so wonderful it's a shame you didn't have a cameraman that had zoom lens. I don't mean to tell you anything it's just that I could see a lot of beautiful filming opportunities…
This is super old content. We have a dedicated camera operator with a proper camcorder now.
@@TwoBrosRC oh wow that would be wonderful. Maybe I can see some of the newer filming. Your piloting skills are superb should be wonderful with a better camera thank you maybe I will check some out
Jon you’re wrong at 16:05 I’d rather watch a video with chapters. I’ll usually skip videos entirely sometimes if they don’t have them. Most people don’t have the patience to watch a long video.
Lol how are we wrong there? We said "We hope you enjoy chapters, we meticulously go through and add them for you"
@@TwoBrosRC I'm saying it's a good thing :)
I am a good RC pilot but I am a pussy when it comes to batteries. I always land with at least 30% left in LoL
It looks like minor damage, I've crashed and repaired jets with much more damage.
Definitely wasn't, either way it's been fixed by this point.
That is not a Toy.
hey Jon big fan...where can I email you I need some help with the f-14 I just got
Help in what way?
@@TwoBrosRC I was wondering if there is a way to use safe with the f 14 I put an AR 8360t in it an I have done all the forward programming...but I can't assign a switch to go in between as3x and safe ...I think it's stuck in safe only...it twitchs twice when I plug in the batteries and when i move the plane the control surfaces move to correct...so I know safe is there ....but I can't assign a switch...maybe the mixing board is interfering..I'm don't know I watch all your videos an thought you could shed some light on what I'm doing wrong...thanks
You'll need to enter Forward Programming and set up SAFE. It'll need to be configured but it should be easy to do. Check for the section called FM Channel and you'll be able to configure it
@@TwoBrosRC I did that it is stuck in safe I assigned a channel to a switch still nothing ...I'm lost brother I don't know what I'm doing wrong
I thought maybe the mixing board was interfering