Decarbonising AMMONIA production. Could a revolutionary new process be the key?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Ammonia is produced in large volumes each year and is in constant use in industries like agriculture, petrochemicals and pharmaceuticals. But it also has great potential as a fuel source, if only a way could be found to produce it without the huge carbon dioxide emissions it currently creates. Now a team at Monash University say they've found an economically viable way to do just that.
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I appreciated this follow-up video. It would be nice to get more of these, following up on other technologies as they approach - or fail to approach - commercialization, to the point where they actually start reducing our carbon footprint in a meaningful way. I am a retired IT guy who has dealt with more than a few "vapor ware" offerings over the years. Hearing about all sorts of new technologies that are going to "solve our climate change problem" might give us an unwarranted rosy picture of the future when we realize that a very low percentage of those technologies actually deliver on their promise or projected timeline. Waiting for a "perfect solution" might be a mistake, when there are lots of "good enough" solutions available right now to start dealing with our pressing problems and upcoming deadlines.
I agree.More Follow up videos would be great.
Very well said!
It's a good sign that they've patented it since that's a very good way of making certain that they have a legitimate process, not a vaporware idea. I just wish the Aussies would build that huge solar farm so they can start making ammonia for fertilizer to eliminate fossil fuels from the process. Thanks, Dave.
@@acmefixer1 Unfortunately our patent offices and people that issue them are not infallible and vaporware gets past her almost as much as other places. But livin in a state that's been pretty much all renewable powered my whole life that's spending up big on expanding our grid and knowing what hydrogen and such is already due to come online 👍 you do not need to do much wishing matey 😉 it's coming.
@@acmefixer1 Singapore - Australia power agreement, have you read about? Solar Farms and massive power cable.
Awesome. I build mostly commercial/industrial solar projects. Producing hydrogen or Ammonia on site has huge potential to pair with solar and wind installations. One of the major hurdles to project development can be finding suitable sites with high electric demand with a suitable location for the installation. Agricultural locations are ideal for ground mounts but the electricity demand is so low that a different business model is needed to send the power to the grid in a community solar or utility solar configuration. By building electric loads with known demand to consume solar power it can unlock a lot of potential installations. I imagine pairing Ammonia production with aquaponics and vertical farming. Agrivoltaics can exist within the solar array and electric tractors can automatically tend to fields while they aren't being managed by regenerative grazing practices and passive permaculture methods
ammonia can be directly injected into the soil as a nitrogen source for agriculture.
Yea, it feels like we have loads of little half solutions and are currently figuring where to put each one so it can be as useful as possible.
Eventually we’ll end up with a grid that is incredibly varied based on region but all adds up to be 100% renewable. That’s my hope at least!
I like your vision :)
I have been looking out for something like this for our farm for using excess solar energy, please let me know if a micro ammonia or hydrogen generating plant is released on the market and I be happy to make good use of it
I an operator at an Oil Refinery. One of my units is a Hydrogen Reformer from Natural gas. The CO2 is sent out by Pipeline for use in food production, mostly Pop.
This process uses a LOT of energy.
One of my other units is a Hydrobon Platformer. That turns Naphtha into Platformate with H2 as excess "off gas", to be used in another process. Nothing is wasted!
I grew up in the shadow of the industry and have lived near refineries, and have a question; if "everything is captured and used, then why does everything for miles around a refinery have the "smell of money". The Oil Barons who started that phrase admitted that there was some, very perceptible leakage when they did that. There has been huge waste and land and property dissolution from oil and gas operations- in America as well as all over the world.
You are from the refinery side, but let me ask a question from the drilling side; why are all wells REQUIRED to have a large diameter casing around the well bore for the first 2000'? I'll save you looking it up- it's because the drilling process risks contaminating the fresh, clean, often potable water that lies above that 2000 foot mark. The damage is so pernicious, this quarter million dollar "soda straw protector" is REQUIRED. Big Oil has from it's inception, chosen the fastest, cheapest methods to develop, produce and ship this stuff- and run it through plants that often leaked and belched tons of contaminants per hour, to peddle it onward through a system that had losses into the atmosphere at every step of the way. Follow one of the larger pipelines out of your refinery; it will likely go to a port to be loaded onto ships, it could be marine bunker oil (nasty stuff) to run the ship or some fraction of the crude to be shipped or even finished products like gasoline. All of those pipelines do things like travel underground, sometimes under rivers, few are double walled and most will at some time leak a little to a lot, maybe into a waterway that several communities get their drinking water from.
But you are talking about just what you think you can see from the top of a cracking tower. Is there anyone in your community being paid just to watch the emissions outputs of your little "paradise in steel"? The refineries aren't clean, never have been, your industry has been driven by little but naked greed for 150 odd years- by the coal barons who became the first oil barons. Look into just who and what JD Rockefeller was- before he was "Mr. Standard Oil" he was "Mr. Standard Coal". Btw, at your refinery, have you ever processed some of the Athabasca Tar Sands oil from Canada or from the heavy oil from Venezuela? Very nasty and leaves a whole lot of "not good" that refineries already don't want to properly dispose of- it seems to get into their profit and loss statement.
In closing, I would recommend you read Daniel Yergin's "The Prize"; it's about the history of the international oil bizz from just after the American Civil War to about 1980. It tells of some great successes and it tells of some disasters it caused that are still rolling through the world stage. FR
@@fredericrike5974 I'd like to take some time and answer you as best i can. Your long reply deserves it.
I'm a work boot hard hat wearing lead shift operator, so with the large business decisions we're given no info due to strict insider trading laws. We're usually the last to know about anything.
I can only say from my workplace, that "smell of money" is taken very seriously by management and by us. My little "paradise in steel" is monitored by several agencies. And they have TEETH. We operators can be held personally and financially responsible if we are negligent. I think there is, for sure, lots that don't take that seriously but should. And that's unfortunate.
Fastest and cheapest is what every industry around the world strives to achieve. Not just the Oil and Gas industry. That's how business works. That can easily be fixed with legislation. You can blame the gov for that.
And you're right, it was a very dirty industry as a whole. It's way way way better the it was before, even in my time. So is Lithium mining, shipping, aerospace, I Phone manufacturing, all of it to one extent or another. Do you like electricity? I do. We couldn't survive as a species without it. Next time you charge you phone, cook your dinner, or take a hot shower look in the mirror and thank ME, and those like ME for your very survival. If all the people like me who RUN THIS COUNTRY decided to quit the people bitching and complaining would be dead in a month.
My units don't run the heavier stuff. But i can tell you the the "not good" ends up as road asphalt, roofing shingles, greases and important products like that. As i said, it all gets used one way or another.
And yes actually, i would like to read that book.
One can always learn something new!
@@jimmyjimjim3054 Just want to say something about "Do you like electricity? I do. We couldn't survive as a species without it." Our species has been using electricity for what, lets say, I'll be generous, 150 years. our species has been around in one form or another for approximately 2 million years. So, I think we could live without it! The richer ones of us and I'm not referring to the 1 percenters or even the 10 percenters, but we who have a lifestyle that requires it. Would find it a lot harder to get by. Food, water, heat and cooling. Just a thought. Cheers Jim
@@jimmyjimjim3054 The industry is still far from clean and owns half or more of the Texas Lege. Here in Texas, oil is regulated about as much as it allows. And I can still smell Pasadena , Texas from miles away. And FWIW, some 10-15% of that bbl of heavy crude isn't useful added to the the very difficult pile of "not good" asphalt is when it's removed from road surfaces and parking lots. My end of the industry was growing up in a moving house hold of a mid level to very high mid level managing engineer- different viewpoint, for sure.
Btw, my thanks for "all the good things" your industry has done will require you to take up some of the blame for a bunch of those smelly bits your negligent regulators and cheap employers afflict hundreds of thousands of Americans with daily.
As to "how hard and diligently" the oil industry works to be clean, I'll give it , in some quarters, but that is far from universal or a regular thing; the BP rig that spilled and burned in 2010 in the outflow of the Mississippi River did so because Halliburton ignored the Barriers Operation Safety Program that was developed after the Eko Fisk disaster in the North Sea- IGNORED IT! Macondo should have been shut down many days before that accident- but wasn't to save a few stock holders from paying the million dollar a day operating costs while they were shut down- there was broken positioning gear needful to kee the semi submersible located close enough over the sub sea completion to not bend or king the down pipe, hydraulics on the subsea completion were crashed into by an ROV Halliburton had hired to do a mandatory inspection- no attempt was made to try and cycle the shears or the closures. There is more- a lot more; the decisions weren't made by people at your pay grade, but much higher- and people at your pay grade were out on that rig in harms way when it all went up- several died. There are thousands of old, uncapped, abandoned wells all over places where America has prospected for aoil- and thought there are laws about it, if you sell the trash left enough times, it becomes impossible to reach out and slap the cheap bastards that do this crap. Jim, I have worked in the refineries, offshore, on service vessels and even been a teaching assistant for courses taught for companies wanting to improve employee education or outlook prior to being made foremen and higher. I've also had the privilege of meeting people from the Arabian Peninsula and other "oil country". Although OPEC exists to prevent the international oil companies from robbing the ME like they did till 1966, companies like Saudi Aramco are as racist and unapologetic about mistreating their employees as the Robber Barons were.
In closing, JJJ, your industry had a very self centered and blind outlook about any harm it has done for over a hundred years- only realistic threat of shutting them down has got this far- and they still want to get leases when the companies are sitting on millions of acres of leases they have but haven't the capital or time to work but they want to buy new ones, they have to be sued when thousands of bbl of oil leak out into a swamp in Louisiana those self same companies PROMISED TO PROTECT. Keep your head down, and find a polite way to quit apologizing for people who would and will fire you if it looks beneficial to them- reason not important. FR
@@johnsamsungs5561 I’m sure the last few million of us that remain after global civilization as we know it collapses will live just fine. It would be relatively primitive and an incredibly difficult, brutal and nasty transition. The world as a whole whole likely to better without any humans depending on how u define better. Personally I prefer to keep electricity and work to reduce the impact on the planet as fast as possible.
I'm the mayor of a small town in a small country on the Southwestern Coast of Africa, Lüderitz ,Namibia. Our town is posed to become one of the largest Green Hydrogen projects on the continent and with all the ongoing planning and overwhelming amount of noise out there, your videos are a great educational tool which I enjoy. Thanks for shining a light on these issues.Its such a new industry to us and there are so many things to consider while we plan and argue for or against these industrial developments and the sacrifices these opportunities come with. I'll keep an eye for more follow-ups on the topic and industry.
The ability to use something like this for efficient hydrogen storage would be Huge!
It would, but I still think too many people want one solution which solves every problem. I’m starting to wonder if we’re headed for a world where solar/wind powers residential activities, and a whole mess of different battery systems store that power for when solar/wind production goes too low.
Meanwhile, the excess of the excess gets turned into green hydrogen or ammonia which powers most of the industrial sector when their solar/wind can’t meet their demand.
@@SaveMoneySavethePlanet That is what we need, many overlapping solutions.I live in a solar/wind residence--some of this is already happening!
Not just storage, but transport. This would make it much more cost effective to produce hydrogen in Australia in the form of ammonia, and export it.
@@theharper1 Of course, storage and transport are really one and the same problem--and that problem comes from the inability to efficiently compress hydrogen and the lack of an affordable hydrogen sponge (the known hydrogen sponge is platinum...not exactly an affordable material to make a gas tank out of!)
But why are they using ammonia, and not Ammonium? That has an extra hydrogen atom.
Thank you for the follow up videos. Progress is what matters. Too many projects start off as "Groundbreaking" but when you check up on them in a year, they are no where.
That follow up review is a great idea, it can even be presented as JHT prices of 2021 to highlight advances in order of relevance 👏
Fantastic! Please do more follow-ups on initial technologies. Nice to know how some of these "Pie In The Sky" potential mega payoffs are doing. As always, love the content.
I, like many others I am sure, appreciate your research and production. I do not (cannot) want to do the research. Thank you.
I'm currently working on a degree project of which the goal is to analyze alternative aviation fuels such as SAFs and Hydrogen. As in my research, ammonia is indeed increasingly seen as a potential Hydrogen Carrier for the aviation and energy industry. Glad to see more in depth information here. Thank you.
Also ammonia is lighter than air and can provide lift (this is a joke, if you do not understand)
If aviation uses NH3 for fuel isn't the production of NOx as pollution absolutely disastrous.
@@idjles no they want to use green hydrogen, but in order to facilitate transportation, they are considering binding hydrogen with ammonia, since ammonia is more easily transported and well known.
@@TWCHHK how will the ammonia be used? Will it be converted back to hydrogen before loading onto the plane?
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 yes that's the idea. And obviously, all the sources of energy must be supplied by renewables.
SMR and SMR they're a "completely different kettle of fish" , quite amusing given the nuclear one is basically a ketle and a steam generator :)
and fish makes tons of ammonia!!
;)
I didn't even noticed that i Noticed.
How did I noticed this...
It is like it never passed my way..
THIS IS AWESOME !
Another excellent video, clearly explained for all. Ammonia as an energy storage medium/fuel clearly has a future, once it is synthesised with renewable tech.
I cannot understand why vast countries with abundant exposure to solar energy are still sticking to their fossil guns.
The answer is simple in the case of Australia. The country has vast fossil fuel exports giving that industry an excessive lobbying advantage.
As sad as it is to say, I think it’s cause the fossil fuel companies decide that they can make more money in the short term by not changing and they push the government and citizens to agree with them.
It feels like too many of our leaders are currently taking the stance of “this won’t harm me personally so I don’t care.”
@@christopherfry2844 And yet there are movements even in Australia towards production of green hydrogen, especially for use in the mining industry.
@@simongross3122 Agreed. It makes you wonder if the good guys can push the transition fast enough for our collective survival.
@@richardlangley90 Glad you said "our" survival. I'm not at all worried for the planet; I'm worried for our own species.
Followups are extremely interesting, especially after a few years, when you can really see how ideas worked out. Sometime things died. Sometimes everyone knows they succeeded. The more interesting ones are those that succeeded, became an everyday part of our lives, and we didn't even notice. So much goes on behind the scenes, where we are largely unaware of how our goods and services are produced
Agreed. It’s also interesting when one encounters specific difficulties causing a slight pivot. So like you say, it becomes part of our daily lives, but we don’t know it.
Isn't ammonia created naturally by animals? I could swear that in environmental studies class they said that is part of the reason why there's so much algae growing in our lakes.
Most of the algal blooms in lakes and other surfaces waters are due runoff of fertilizers from lawns and farms, animal waste runoff from feedlots, or raw or improperly treated sewage discharges. It is the generally high nitrogen and phosphorus content in the runoff that stimulates runaway algal growth. The nitrogen is mostly in the form of urea or ammonium salts.
Another development you should check out is a Canadian company , who has the IP, to make ammonia at 45c and standard air pressure . All that needed is air and water. They are currently building 20 prototypes to be tested in different industries. I believe they if it works will be a massive step forward in this area. Happy to supply company name if requested.
Awesome, thank you! Great to see they are making real progress!
This is fantastic news, as a farmer who will spend approximately €500/acre, $550/acre or 2.5 times that per hectare this year on nitrogen to produce food, I have been looking for ways of producing nitrogen from solar in order to utilize 100% of the energy produced by solar panels. If this works, I and millions of farmers around the World would have the ability to create our own nitrogen which would have many many benefits including reduced costs, import substitution, reduced carbon, fertiliser and food security and reduced dependence on Russia for nitrogen fertiliser.
I remember when I was a kid we had a bottle of ammonia in the cupboard under the kitchen sink. It could be bought freely from the local hardware store. I think it was used as a cleaning product/disinfectant, but I'm not sure.
Yep. That's ammonia dissolved in water, forming ammonium hydroxide (NH₃ + H₂O ⟶ NH₄OH). It's not pure ("anhydrous") ammonia, which is a gas at room temperature. For serious uses you need the gas, which you can condense to a liquid at -33°C, which is cold but not _that_ cold.
2:15 SMR can also refer to Shingled Magnetic Recording a hard disk recording technology
Thank you for this video! It's interesting to return to a technology you've previously covered and see what the current state of progress is. I particularly enjoyed following your animation of the process itself. Well described, and so elegant. Surely a simple electrochemical reaction is more efficient than a massive, clunky industrial one filled with pipes and tanks?
Apparently not, if the rate of ammonia production is still an order of magnitude smaller than Haber-Bosch. I guess that's economies of scale in action. But if this new method of production is so much simpler and cheaper, surely it can be scaled up to industrial size for less expense? It would require more production units, but those units would be less expensive to run. I don't know, maybe there's hope the numbers will add up.
Their idea of a locally based energy system would certainly be revolutionary. You'd still need industrial quantities of electricity and water, but if it would (as you said) do away with the massive pipeline and tank infrastructure that currently transports energy carriers to us... That would eliminate a couple of industries outright.
If distributed ammonia production can become a thing then I can see farm groups wanting their own installations. They could produce their own fertilizer with it and have it power their own farm equipment.
Yea, moving to green fertilizer options would be huge for reducing our global emissions. I was incredibly motivated by this video!
Ammonia for transportation seems rather crazy since it is a suffocating and disabling gas. The Haber process works with any source of hydrogen, obviously, and methane is used because it is cheap and provides the energy for the operation. The main advantage of the alternatives would be in the production of fertilizers and explosives without the use of carbon fuels. Ammonia for transportation will work until there is an accident.
Ammonia is created and transported in large volumes safely every day. There a huge infrastructure in place for shipping and piping the stuff.
@@DanielASchaeffer - TS was referring to the use of ammonia as fuel for transportation, not in the transportation of ammonia itself. Gasoline is a preferred fuel due to its stability at room temp and pressure. Pure liquid ammonia boils at -33C (-28F). As a fuel for mass, public use, it's a very dangerous product.
@@valkyriefrost5301 But is the video suggesting that it be used as a fuel? I thought it was just to be used as a means of transporting hydrogen.
@@danyoutube7491 No it would be used as a fuel. Not in cars or even trucks, but for ships and airplanes.
@@danyoutube7491 - Dave (JHaT) mentions many uses of ammonia in the video, one of which is it's potential use as a transportation fuel (like air travel). I could be wrong, but I believe Tom (OP) was talking about ammonia being use for transportation (like air travel). A jet fuel spill is a bad and dangerous thing. An ammonia spill of the same magnitude would be extremely dangerous as it's a highly toxic gas that can kill without having to be ignited.
This is exactly the type of endeavor that needs to be prioritized and assisted.
Thanks Dave for the bo peep battery update! I sure hope this new method works, not only is the Haber-Bosch process old, but our infrastructure using this process to produce ammonia is getting a bit creaky as well. As a fuel it sounds good, something I hadn't heard of before you mentioned it, so thanks for the possible solution to the aviation fuel dilemma. Will this mean cleaner smelling airports? 🌞🐑 🐑 🐑
Hello. I'm only a musician, but hugely enjoy your "Just have a think series. The topics are very interesting and you explain all the relevant aspects with a wonderful balance of clarity, depth and humor. Thank you so much. Please keep them coming. Best wishes, Gavin Edwards
Gavin, you aren't "only a musician". You're a musician! And that is awesome. -a technogeek who appreciates the importance of art.
Hey, there's nothing "only" about being a a musician
You should do something on H2 Carriers in general. Also would be neat to show historical commercial efforts (NECAR in 2000s, etc)
As a retired ChE, I love these videos. Does anyone else think his logo is reminiscent of Mystery Science Theater 3000? Push the button, Frank.
Great video, i dont think this a replacement for lithium ion battery tech, but its interesting technology. it might keep more conventionally powered things going and possibly fertilize our fields.
It's not intended to replace Li-ion batteries. It's a method for making NH3 that happens to use Li-ion tech.
Excellently described 👌
Commenting to support David.
Love the update. Many thanks for this! 😃
If we don’t squander our opportunity to save the world, scientific innovation will be a key to the solutions needed. It is through science that I find hope.
Yes , just the same as “ NICOLA TESLA “” the B B - jp morgs stopped it dead in its track bk early 1902 - Free Electricity for a 25 mile radius with adjacent ones overlapping another 25 mile radius. Free for all in pursuit of money for rich few!!
Great video as always.
Other clip talked on using "BIS (TRI-FLUORO-METHYL-SULFONYL) IMIDE" with Fordiac (electron) efficiency=98.5% @ 20 barg.. (catalyst?) For NH3 mass-production.
Compared to the "120 year-old" Haber-Bosch process is less than 40% @200+ barg.
Sounds good.
And anytime you can make something you need right where you need it the better.
That is one of the things that needs to happen a lot.
Decentralization of as many things as possible.
Agreed. We really went off the deep end in the 80’s trying to manufacture everything where we had the lowest labor costs possible.
That was a mistake and led to a lot of the issues that we’re experiencing now. It’ll be good to see things become decentralized again.
2:15 or the other other "SMR Technology": Shingled Magnetic Recording ^^
Fuelpositive is a company in Toronto. Has a patent on making green ammonia right now check it out
Will it produce green fertilizers for the agriculture sector? For example, ammonium nitrate or ammonium phosphate are most popular these days but plain old vanilla ammonia can be injected directly in the soil. Phosphate can be added as finely ground phosphate rock powder. That will be real green!
I really hope it does. If we could break the fertilizer industry away from the fossil fuel industry then that could be huge for our long term emissions!
In California, ammonia is often bubbled into irrigation water where it forms ammonium hydroxide. It is common to see trucks delivering large round ball-shaped trailer tanks of liquid ammonia to farms, or to see permanent ammonia tank installations.
Amazing process!
well there ya go; among the various things that this channel has enlightened me with is the term " A shed load" at 2:33
Evidently in England they use the term " a shed load" to denote a LOT of something (or perhaps is it only used when in polite company?)
In America we use the very similar sounding term " a shit load".
Now I gotta go study the etymology of both terms to see which came first!
seeing the known reaction of lithium with nitrogen gas, before this vid, I thought it could be used as a potential alternate industrial route to ammonia. Initially, I chose water as the proton source, but the lithium wouldn’t be fully recycled unless we evaporate all the water (takes a ton of energy). In addition, lithium hydroxide has a melting point of 462°C (from the wiki), which costs even more energy.
Nice graphics :) good episode
I was just wondering what the benefit of ammonia is compared to using chicken manure? The thing is since the egg is such a superior source of protein with the bioavailability of it’s amino acids plus the recent studies of a lack in cognitive decline of regular egg eaters. I know the greenest of my farming adventures were always fabulous be the crop edibles or smokable and it worked the first year the ground was turned, I always added a bit of agricultural lime to the mix. Have been having piss poor luck without it making my own compost and buying organic soils. I am in the sand of central Florida and I do realize it takes a little bit for the organic to become available to plants by becoming inorganic. Now the thing is hydroponics should just incorporate fish they would feed the plants which in turn would clean the water for the fish. I mention all this from reading about the costs to the big chicken producers to be rid of what was being called toxic waste. Is it all a stupid cycle of money for what we don’t need and that pollutes to? I mean is burned trees not the same as potash? Just seems to me to be a totally unnecessary endeavor unless we as a society just have to employ chemical & ammonia & petroleum based fertilizer producers. Or am I missing something special with ammonia and petroleum?
I've been interested in ammonia as an alternative to the hydrogen fuel source for a few years now. Thank you for following up. I often wonder why there isn't a larger push to ammonia when it seems like such a much better option compared to hydrogen. Maybe these production solutions will help push it ahead of hydrogen.
Awesome - but do you know why they use ammonia, and not Ammonium? That has an extra hydrogen atom.
The big problem with these videos is they are lacking treatment of the real issues: The cost of the machinery/infrastructure; the energy efficiency of the processes needed. At the moment renewable hydrogen is at best about 83% energy efficient in laboratory and the electrolysis equipment is very expensive providing very expensive hydrogen. Hydrogen is also very expensive to store or transport. And fuel cells are at best 60% energy efficient and also very expensive. Without the energy losses incurred in storage and/or transport hydrogen is at best 50% energy efficient. Batteries are already over 90% energy efficient for the same process. While a catalyst will lower the activation energy required for a chemical reaction it will not lower either the enthalpy or the entropy energies of the reaction and making ammonia requires massive energy inputs. Why it is such a good energy carrier. However: In the energy constrained world we are fast approaching thermodynamic efficiency will be critical. Hydrogen and ammonia have very low thermodynamic efficiency. The real situation is only 16% of global energy comes from low emissions technology and the 84% of the energy that comes from fossil fuels is becoming more scarce and more expensive to produce.
Love your channel, the quality of the comments below is far above my lowly status, but what are the carbon emmisions from producing the tetraethylphosphonium cation? And how long does it last, and how is it disposed of after, is it a pollutant, and what are the carbon emissions from the copper and the solvent and how are they disposed of? This new chemistry is brilliant, but raises many questions. Thanks
The missing part of the "ammonia as fuel" scenario is the combustion step: is there a technology that burns the hydrogen into water, without turning the nitrogen into nitrogen oxides? The latter are far nastier characters than good old CO2. Ideally, you'd want the nitrogen spit out as N2 ... perhaps via a fuel cell that runs this process in reverse.
This is a problem with pure hydrogen too as NOx is produced by the high temperature high pressure combustion. The other missing piece is a way of stripping about the Nitrogen so NH3 could be used as a feed stock for a fuel cell, this might yield better efficiencies than IC engines in the long run.
Thank you, I was just debating this
As a country that occupies a continent with a population smaller than some cities, we certainly do punch above our weight in scientific developments.
Greatly appreciated!
very much appreciated. Is ammonia a possible carrier for aviation fuels? That would alleviate one of my big gilts. long distant travel. Thanks again, Mark
I really enjoy you videos and appreciate the hard work to make them. I wish you would explain that CO2 is essential to plant life and is only 0.3 to 0.4% of our atmosphere. This small percentage varies slightly from month to month and year to year. The climate model that is used to scare everyone used the worst case fluctuation to make it look worse. I think you need a video explaining this to keep your credibility!!
South Australia is 100% renewable now on many days and is going for 500% renewable for industrial development.
I think Japan is looking for supply of hydrogen.
Australian natural gas is sold at the world prices and is expensive for electrical power generation.
Certainly there are a number of players in the field, but please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that it is the Canadian company “Hydrofuel Canada Inc.” that have a green patented process for producing Amonia, and also have stated they can produce Ammonia at the cost of 30cents per gallon! They are, from my understanding much further along the road than the Australians! I look forward to the time we can start pumping ammonia into our tanks in place of Petrol & Deisel! This will be a much better solution than building electric cars, that it has been discovered are far from a green alternative the the internal combustion engine, when you change the fuel to ammonia!
I manage a property that is pretty much surrounded by the Monash Campus that seems to be continually expanding and was lucky enough for my Son to go to the John Monash Science School, which is located on the edge of the Monash Campus. The whole area is becoming a STEM precinct (including one of only 3 synchrotrons in the southern hemisphere) so I'm not surprised that they are making break throughs. While our Federal Government takes a stone age approach to energy, at least our state government is heading the right direction.
Thanks very much for posting !!!
MacFarlane is well respected and possibly producing something revolutionary. But even without his innovation, the tremendous promise of distributed affordable synthesis of green ammonia is being offered or developed by Proton Ventures, AmmPower, Starfire Energy, FuelPositive, TalusAG and maybe others. I suggest you cover them all, and tell us which is closest to commercial, and any contrasts. Thank you for your great segment by the way.
Superb as always.
I've heard there was a collaboration between Japan and New Zealand
In regards two hydrogen production on a commercial scale.
I'd like to know what progress they're making.
Very good video! But why did you put a clip of an NMR automated sample loader while talking about scalable systems around 8:35 ? ;)
Ammonia as fuel seems to me like a good idea, if you can get ammonia with minimal energy usage. A potential problem that occurs to me is oxides of nitrogen. In piston engines, and, I believe, in gas turbines, nox are produced from air by the high combustion temperatures, and, it would seem to me, the addition of the nitrogen in the ammonia would exacerbate the problem.
Bring on energy superabundance!
This looks like a great wat to generate hydrogen in a readily transportable form. Let's hope it can be scaled efficiently!
Good 'old Aussie tech!
Nice video Dave. Thank you. Always a great start to a Sunday. Pancakes and a JHAT video to start us off on a positive note.
Nice video.
in South africa there is a proposed site eto this being planed by HIVE Energy in Port Elizabeth
Wonderful video that simplified heavy contents
I am sure production of ammonia via some biological process could achieve the required target, scale in a far more efficient and cost effective manner.
Do a segment about Magnetohydrodynamics.
It’s interesting to compare the carbon footprint or emission levels for Brown, Blue and Green hydrogen.
Marketing plays a big role in the choice of colours used here.
Behind the colours are hidden costs and inefficiencies. Conversion losses for examples aren’t highlighted in these energy alternatives.
You can make hydrogen from a completely renewable energy source such as solar, tidal or wind and call it Green Hydrogen but the conversion loss could be as high as 30%. Add processing losses and costs and the overall efficiency drops significantly. But this about storage and transport as well. Profits
Thumbnail: Carbon-free ammonia
My eye: Sees carbon
SMR is also Shingled Magnetic Recording ;)
Wow, its a game changer
8:00 it may mean very little to Lay folk, but to those familiar with such industrial processes it in fact means "Very Little".
To me the whole problem with Hydrogen as fuel, is the fact that conventional batteries will just outgrow the need for this complexity. If batteries get half as cheap, and have 2x the storage capacity in the next 5-10 years, why bother with the super complexity of this entire process? It's a whole bunch of extra work for the same result. And a bunch more complex cars, and more to repair. I'm sure car makers love this idea, because they like having complex cars that break.
This seems like a great idea. At 4:00 I'm quite tired of these lies, when discussing volume saying "ammonia contains 50% more h2 than pure h2" is pointless without stating the compression... at stp maybe. I guarantee pure liquid h2 has more h2 (both by volume and weight) than liquid ammonia. I appreciate these videos, this particular point is just often used as a bigoil talking point so i think we have a responsibility to catch and correct it.
Nice ideas
ammonia production by the calcium cyanamide process would blend well with solar power. Calcium cyanamide is produced in arc furnaces and is how ammonia fertilizers were made long ago.
A request for a subject to cover is curtailment of renewable energy. The UK are likely pay over £1 Billion to wind generators to not generate electricity which seems to be total madness. There must be some way(s) of overcoming this issue.
Batteries.
Very interesting
NH3 certainly offers a great many advantages over so many other forms of energy storage. I really hope these researchers are on to something.
Merci vielmal for this follow-up.
$1.8 million of research money is peanuts. But that seems to be the problem with Akademia.
We have a skhool system that just isn't pushing for any development that we should have. I talked with several people at Swiss ETH (MIT-like) schools and listened to their professors. They teach their students that batteries aren't recyclable, and that methane forcing is only 28 times that of CO2 and lasts less than 20 years. That is wrong. Students cannot progress in such a system.
Windyday Concept thinks that there has to be a purging of fossil fuel lobby mentality if we are to make any progress. I've calculated that this should happen before 2005 for our world to have any chance of survival.
BTW, I am confident in my calculations.
methane conc is so low that its contribution to the greenhouse effect can be neglected. But yes, we must not dump methane into the atmosphere.
Great idea to do follow up!
You missed the opportunity to call the other kind of SMR "a completely different kettle of fission".
I still haven't heard anything that would make me see NH3 as an energy carrier. But if a better way can be found to create ammonia, then as you say, yes, it could have huge implications for agriculture.
from what I've read, the combustion of NH3 is difficult to maintain due to reaction conditions, hence the need for catalytic fuel cell (just like e.g. PEMFC used by hydrogen cars - as direct combustion of H2 without catalysis tends to go kaboom 🙂)
the lithium cell makes sense - after all, lithium spontaneously reacts with ammonia forming lithium amide and hydrogen: 2 Li + 2 NH3 -> 2 LiNH2 + H2
here ammonia behaves like an acid, although extremely weak
Interesting.. I do believe the correct pronunciation is “Hayber Bosch” as there is only one r in Haber. Still early days on this process, but here’s hoping!
Or run the traditional Haber-Bosch process using heat from a (small modular) nuclear reactor...
Have you heard about stripping energy from urea by a step-down process eventually getting to fully oxidized N (NO3)? There are apparently energy thresholds to overcome along the way but NH3 to NO3 contains significant energy. I have always liked this idea because it takes a waste product and converts it to a fertilizer while yielding electricity.
We are already doing this in waste to energy, the technology came out of Canada, I believe the processes are not similar though.
I remember seeing an article back in the early 90’s and they said the singularity would be achieved in the year 2023, where we could achieve everything instantaneously. I wonder how far we are really away from it now.
That has never been what the singularity meant.
"The technological singularity-or simply the singularity-is a hypothetical point in time at which technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible, resulting in unforeseeable changes to human civilization."- wikipedia
Excellent video again
Thanks
When asking for comment you sounded overly concerned
Never let the fossil flamers get to you
Cheers
Thank you
What if we get to a point in the technology where we can produce enough ammonia to run an engine on demand. Now that's exciting.
This seems readily industriable, nice.
There are no processes that can change the laws of enthalpy and entrophy, thus only the activation energy can change. The very large chemical energy contained in ammonia has to be put there in the first place.
Ammonia would be an interesting way to carry hydrogen in a carbon free manner. Obviously there would be no unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide or particulate emissions
But more NOx and N2O (ghg factor N2O = 300). So, not so easy, unfortunately.
@@TVWJ
NOx can be reduced fairy easily. It’s all about temperature and pressure during combustion. There is also selective catalyst reduction for NOx. By slightly retarding the ignition or injection of the fuel NOx is greatly reduced even before catalytic reduction.
@@TVWJ NH3 also has lower calorific value; less heat production (if my memory is right)
Yes. of course. But it typically is not reduced to 0, since you need to be above the ignition temperature for NH, and under those conditions, you typically have a certain amount of NOx as well. So you will need catalysts, which add costs and makes the systems more complicated. By the way, SCR catalysts do not reduce N2O emissions! ( I know, I am one of the leading experts in this field).
@@TVWJ
I guess we could just keep refining and using crude oil. That’s so clean and benign.
scientists: how to make ammonia cheaply?
meanwhile engineers in water treatement plants: how to get ride of ammonia cheaply?
Haha maybe we could find a way to extract usable quantities of ammonia from water treatment plants :)
What are the economics and ekonomics of Tetrethyl Phosphonium Cations provision? ditto Lithium Nitrite? What also may be the implicit politics of their provision?
If expensive, difficult or dangerous - there is always the immense density of ocean currents driven by the ‘cosmic gyre’ and to which resistant means may electrolyse the very ‘stuff passing through’: sea-water. The provision of gaseous hydrogen for industrial purposes in the Ruhr has travelled through 100s of kilometres of pipelines for a century now. Modular components on the same modular nuclear reactor basis? Modular seems the way to go in so many applications - I believe Japanese Temples have been built on that basis for centuries so no surprise there - and apart from it being commonsensical from a repair point of view. Yes, wooden ships from the age of sail were the same - had to be - making repairs in a hostile environment.
I’m really interested in using methane from waste to create nitrogen with ad
Ectrelt suitable to all countries subsidising fertilusers
Fish respiration!
I love all the tech here
Maybe my mind is wired up wrongly but since studying Aquaponic culture all this sounds phenomenally complex.
Australia is home to a great deal of knowledge on Aquaponics (as well as hydroponics) which requires the removal of waste Amonia from the water in which the fish are grown, I learned that the Amonia produced as a pollutant in a hydroponic loop, by fish respiration, which we need to break down in a completely natural 2 stage bacterial process( nitrites then nitrates which feed the plants, in turn cleaning the fish water), could be syphoned off directly for processing as elsewhere.
Are they overthinking this?
Excellent technology! How long until they can switch the 230 million tons made annually over to it?