I am sure you can do anything if you put your mind to it. Tapping it with medium force it does not budge. If it was my own vehicle I might get creative. If you are even slightly off 2 degrees or so, you will have a corelation code, ( engine would run of course). Thanks for watching and commenting!
Love the transparency. We cannot possibly get it right everytime. Misreading, lack of comprehension and simply our arrogance of wanting to be right can cause that. This is what I like about having other capable technicians around you as a sounding board. With social media being what it is it is not like 1985. Your soundboard of other technicians was FB and of course a great paid for resource, DN. I love this video.
Brain, excellent find love those kind of videos and how to fix these challenging problems really appreciate the time u took to educate us thanks brother for what you do.
Hi, I have a 2013 malibu with a 2.5 with a similar issue. The vacuum pump driven by the camshaft locked up damaging the cam in the process which also seems like it may have moved the reluctor. I can't seem to find anything on the position of the reluctor and the camshaft is out of stock everywhere. Do you believe there's anyway I could move that reluctor back without an oscilloscope?
I have heard of people doing that, not sure of the results or how they did it, the tsb shows pictures of alignment, however I son think you can accurately line it up by that.
@@BrianMann216 I found the tsb but unfortunately the photos are for the 2.4 LE5 and I have the 2.5 LCV which I think has at the least a different style reluctor. Seems I’ll just have to take a shot in the dark until the cam comes back into stock or I can find a good used unit.
THIS VIDEO WOULD BE A GREAT IN-DEPTH CLASS THANK YOU BRIAN, I AM WONDERING IS IT POSSIBLE TO USE MY INTAKE PULSE SENSOR TO DETERMINE IF I HAVE A CLOGGED CATALYTIC CONVERTER. JUST TRYING TO BE A BIT MORE EFFICIENT AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A BIG TIME SAVER IF I COULD. THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP.
I am still a student of the pulse sensor, here is how I look at it. Pulse sensor will show variances cylinder to cylinder, if vehicle has 1 cat all cylinders will be looking the same vary difficult to pick anything up . A engine with 2 cats ,1per bank, if 1 cat is clogged you would see some sort of variance between the banks, depending on the level of the restriction, think about that engine trying to pump air but can get it all out of the cylinder on exhaust, during over lap there would be some pressure from exhaust popping up in the intake as that intake valve opens, so you may be able to see something there, I personally have not taken enough time to look for this, I may have a file or 2 that I had pulse on the intake and the wps doing in cylinder. Great Question, it would be a great time saver to be able to spot this if possible. I have got pretty good at spotting bank to bank imbalances on the ford 5.4 due to cam timing using a pulse senor (I know realtive compression on scan tool is faster !). does this help?
@@BrianMann216 THANK YOU BRAIN , IN THIS CASE I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO ADD A SINK CHANNEL IF I AM GETTING VALVE POPPING JUST TO RULE OUT A TIMING ISSUE . BUT I SEE I WILL HAVE TO DIG A BIT DEEPER WITH MORE TRIAL AND ERA. IT IS ALWAYS GOOD TO BE ABLE TO ASK A PRO SOME OF THE IDEAS AT TIMES . I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR YOUR INPUT BRAIN ALL THE BEST.
Awesome find. I got issue with 2014 captiva, with p0017 code which exhaust cam position not plausible, i gues this is it. It starts from 3rd or 4th time, and runs smooth, but vvt doesnt correct anything on exhaust side, new sensor which opens by command, working sprocket. The question is if crank reluctor misaligned there is no way it ever would start?
@BrianMann216 ended up it was off about 10 degrees or so, replaced cam, starts with 1st time every time now, and vvt does correction as it should. Thanks a lot. Your video helped to solve it!
we just had a 2015 equinox, installed chain, had constant poo17 code, checked timing 3 times, engine ran great, couldn't get light off, saw your video, ordered an exhaust cam from chevy and installed it and check engine light is off, we couldn't believe that the reluctor could slip like that. Thanks for the great job explaining it on the video
Just a thought, if you wanted to prove a shifted reluctor couldn’t you create a restriction in the intake and take an in cylinder waveform? If the cams are mechanically in time with the engine this will give you a waveform similar to a running in cylinder where you can see valve opening and closing events. If these events match a known good of the same engine you have now proved the reluctor has to be shifted. Just a thought.
@@BrianMann216 Thank you for quick response! Appreciate! I’m working on one now, crank - few seconds of working, trying to start- no start. I’m sorry, but I’m not very fluent in English, can you explain please using the other words, what do you mean “cams are locked in home position”?
Hi Brian. I can’t help but wonder this. We know that the exhaust was off from the correlation pattern. If you had measured how far off the exhaust was in degree and compared it to your in cylinder waveform, maybe you would’ve caught that the exhaust was mechanically in timed (opening where it’s supposed to) and that the reluctor is lying. What do you think?
Thats true, incylinder proved evo ok, I was confused ro be honest with you! It took me leaving the shop and going home and analyzing to realize signal out, then posted to forum an it all made sense, went back and verified. I learned more on this one!
I have a running 2.4 ecotec, I’m getting a P0017 and P0016 codes, It has 190,000 on it so when the customer mentioned what it was doing and when I pulled the codes with the mileage I instantly assumed it was a stretched timing chain as I’ve done plenty of these. I pulled the VVT solenoids and they had metal shaving debris and thought for sure I was on the right track, I pulled the valve cover and the chain looked relatively new and wasn’t loose, I pulled the side cover and inspected everything and nothing was out of sorts from visual inspection so I put it back together, replaced VVT solenoids and it wasn’t much better and was still setting the same codes. So I go to look at the cam position data. I see the pulse counts from the camshaft but I do not see cam timing in degrees both cams are showing 0 degree timing which does not seem right at all and there’s no commanded timing on the VVT solenoid. So I thought maybe it was a crank sensor issue but it went through the crank position relearn process. I don’t understand why I do not see timing data on the cam position sensors it’s like the computer isn’t getting the information to calculate. Is it possible a slipped crank reluctor would cause this?
@@BrianMann216 I don't have an oscilloscope. Just have my diagnostic tool to see the timing , pulse counts from the sensors., after further research it appears that the 2.4 crank reluctor is bolted to the crank rather than pressed on like the 3.0/3.6 engines. I would think if it had a bad cam reluctor I would still see the timing in degrees on my diagnostic tool but it would be off. I know the P0017 & P0016 codes will set if there is 10 degrees or more advanced or retarded in correlation to the crank.
I'm searching for reasons why this reluctor would slip in the first place. That TSB or whatever says an engine overheat may cause this but why? That reluctor is not riding on anything. I doubt it would heat up enough to expand and start rubbing on the head there. I understand it is not keyed, but pressed on should be just fine since there is no resistance. The only thing I can think of is a GRADUAL slip upon thousands of hot shutdowns, where a spinning camshaft halts and the inertia of that reluctor wants it to keep turning. Cam stops with the chain, reluctor continues and slips forward a thousandth or millionth of a mm or whatever. Is that reluctor that heavy that it can do such a thing?
Excellent video always love seeing these
Great case study Brian!
Thanks man!
Did they quote an engine or just new camshafts?
I dont know. I would have quoted a engine due to the mileage. Also I let them know they have other breathing problems as well.
If the reluctor wheel has slipped on the Crankshaft why can't you tap it back in place and install a set screw or tack weld 🙂
I am sure you can do anything if you put your mind to it. Tapping it with medium force it does not budge. If it was my own vehicle I might get creative. If you are even slightly off 2 degrees or so, you will have a corelation code, ( engine would run of course). Thanks for watching and commenting!
Love the transparency. We cannot possibly get it right everytime. Misreading, lack of comprehension and simply our arrogance of wanting to be right can cause that. This is what I like about having other capable technicians around you as a sounding board. With social media being what it is it is not like 1985. Your soundboard of other technicians was FB and of course a great paid for resource, DN. I love this video.
Brain, excellent find love those kind of videos and how to fix these challenging problems really appreciate the time u took to educate us thanks brother for what you do.
Great find on this one Brian!
Bull shit, “cam reluctor slip, no start” that engine will start and run with both camshaft sensors unplugged
Calling it as it was, I would have to go back and watch myself, but with them plugged in it wouldn't run and that is a fact my friend.
Hi, I have a 2013 malibu with a 2.5 with a similar issue. The vacuum pump driven by the camshaft locked up damaging the cam in the process which also seems like it may have moved the reluctor. I can't seem to find anything on the position of the reluctor and the camshaft is out of stock everywhere. Do you believe there's anyway I could move that reluctor back without an oscilloscope?
I have heard of people doing that, not sure of the results or how they did it, the tsb shows pictures of alignment, however I son think you can accurately line it up by that.
@@BrianMann216 I found the tsb but unfortunately the photos are for the 2.4 LE5 and I have the 2.5 LCV which I think has at the least a different style reluctor. Seems I’ll just have to take a shot in the dark until the cam comes back into stock or I can find a good used unit.
THIS VIDEO WOULD BE A GREAT IN-DEPTH CLASS THANK YOU BRIAN, I AM WONDERING IS IT POSSIBLE TO USE MY INTAKE PULSE SENSOR TO DETERMINE IF I HAVE A CLOGGED CATALYTIC CONVERTER. JUST TRYING TO BE A BIT MORE EFFICIENT AND I THINK IT WOULD BE A BIG TIME SAVER IF I COULD. THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP.
I am still a student of the pulse sensor, here is how I look at it. Pulse sensor will show variances cylinder to cylinder, if vehicle has 1 cat all cylinders will be looking the same vary difficult to pick anything up . A engine with 2 cats ,1per bank, if 1 cat is clogged you would see some sort of variance between the banks, depending on the level of the restriction, think about that engine trying to pump air but can get it all out of the cylinder on exhaust, during over lap there would be some pressure from exhaust popping up in the intake as that intake valve opens, so you may be able to see something there, I personally have not taken enough time to look for this, I may have a file or 2 that I had pulse on the intake and the wps doing in cylinder. Great Question, it would be a great time saver to be able to spot this if possible. I have got pretty good at spotting bank to bank imbalances on the ford 5.4 due to cam timing using a pulse senor (I know realtive compression on scan tool is faster !). does this help?
@@BrianMann216 THANK YOU BRAIN , IN THIS CASE I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO ADD A SINK CHANNEL IF I AM GETTING VALVE POPPING JUST TO RULE OUT A TIMING ISSUE . BUT I SEE I WILL HAVE TO DIG A BIT DEEPER WITH MORE TRIAL AND ERA. IT IS ALWAYS GOOD TO BE ABLE TO ASK A PRO SOME OF THE IDEAS AT TIMES . I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH FOR YOUR INPUT BRAIN ALL THE BEST.
Awesome find. I got issue with 2014 captiva, with p0017 code which exhaust cam position not plausible, i gues this is it. It starts from 3rd or 4th time, and runs smooth, but vvt doesnt correct anything on exhaust side, new sensor which opens by command, working sprocket. The question is if crank reluctor misaligned there is no way it ever would start?
It all depends on how far it slipped, and the pcm logic .
@BrianMann216 ended up it was off about 10 degrees or so, replaced cam, starts with 1st time every time now, and vvt does correction as it should. Thanks a lot. Your video helped to solve it!
@@globuslive Glad to be able to help!
we just had a 2015 equinox, installed chain, had constant poo17 code, checked timing 3 times, engine ran great, couldn't get light off, saw your video, ordered an exhaust cam from chevy and installed it and check engine light is off, we couldn't believe that the reluctor could slip like that. Thanks for the great job explaining it on the video
Nice job 👏
Brian, 2 questions. The spun reluctor looks discolored is that from cleaning it? 2nd could the relutor be moved (was it loose)?
Great video thank u sir 👍
Glad you like it, had me scratching my head with the pattern.. then the FB groups pushed me in the right direction.
Just a thought, if you wanted to prove a shifted reluctor couldn’t you create a restriction in the intake and take an in cylinder waveform? If the cams are mechanically in time with the engine this will give you a waveform similar to a running in cylinder where you can see valve opening and closing events. If these events match a known good of the same engine you have now proved the reluctor has to be shifted. Just a thought.
Good idea, always looking for ways to do the job more efficiently
Great video. thanks for sharing.
Great video and use of all your resources!!!
Great diagnosis Brian!
Thank you great job
Hello! Did you unplugged the cam adjustment solenoid connectors before recording the waveforms of crank and cam shafts?
It was not even running, so it would not make a difference unless the cams were not locked in home position
@@BrianMann216 Thank you for quick response! Appreciate! I’m working on one now, crank - few seconds of working, trying to start- no start. I’m sorry, but I’m not very fluent in English, can you explain please using the other words, what do you mean “cams are locked in home position”?
Hi Brian. I can’t help but wonder this. We know that the exhaust was off from the correlation pattern. If you had measured how far off the exhaust was in degree and compared it to your in cylinder waveform, maybe you would’ve caught that the exhaust was mechanically in timed (opening where it’s supposed to) and that the reluctor is lying. What do you think?
Thats true, incylinder proved evo ok, I was confused ro be honest with you! It took me leaving the shop and going home and analyzing to realize signal out, then posted to forum an it all made sense, went back and verified. I learned more on this one!
@@BrianMann216 thanks for sharing this Brian! I like videos like this!
Nicely done
anyway to check 2011 LAF engine ?
I would check that tsb! It has all the info in it.
I have a running 2.4 ecotec, I’m getting a P0017 and P0016 codes, It has 190,000 on it so when the customer mentioned what it was doing and when I pulled the codes with the mileage I instantly assumed it was a stretched timing chain as I’ve done plenty of these. I pulled the VVT solenoids and they had metal shaving debris and thought for sure I was on the right track, I pulled the valve cover and the chain looked relatively new and wasn’t loose, I pulled the side cover and inspected everything and nothing was out of sorts from visual inspection so I put it back together, replaced VVT solenoids and it wasn’t much better and was still setting the same codes. So I go to look at the cam position data. I see the pulse counts from the camshaft but I do not see cam timing in degrees both cams are showing 0 degree timing which does not seem right at all and there’s no commanded timing on the VVT solenoid. So I thought maybe it was a crank sensor issue but it went through the crank position relearn process. I don’t understand why I do not see timing data on the cam position sensors it’s like the computer isn’t getting the information to calculate. Is it possible a slipped crank reluctor would cause this?
Do you have a scope to check the signals from the cranks sensors?
@@BrianMann216 I don't have an oscilloscope. Just have my diagnostic tool to see the timing , pulse counts from the sensors., after further research it appears that the 2.4 crank reluctor is bolted to the crank rather than pressed on like the 3.0/3.6 engines. I would think if it had a bad cam reluctor I would still see the timing in degrees on my diagnostic tool but it would be off. I know the P0017 & P0016 codes will set if there is 10 degrees or more advanced or retarded in correlation to the crank.
i know this is kind of old, but when p0016 or p0017 set, the scan tool data defaults to zero. don't know why, you'd have to ask the engineers.
I'm searching for reasons why this reluctor would slip in the first place. That TSB or whatever says an engine overheat may cause this but why? That reluctor is not riding on anything. I doubt it would heat up enough to expand and start rubbing on the head there. I understand it is not keyed, but pressed on should be just fine since there is no resistance. The only thing I can think of is a GRADUAL slip upon thousands of hot shutdowns, where a spinning camshaft halts and the inertia of that reluctor wants it to keep turning. Cam stops with the chain, reluctor continues and slips forward a thousandth or millionth of a mm or whatever. Is that reluctor that heavy that it can do such a thing?
The problem it’s. GM 2.4 engine… Some Lemons run and others break the Bank…
Buy a Toyota problem solved!