I don't mind "flippy shit" or (most) comedy wrestling, (I didn't mind the lollipop thing) but fuck the Joey Ryan dick suplex. Just fuck that spot. I hate it. Also I think putting a comedy wrestler like Joey Ryan in the ring with a genuine guy is fucking stupid. Joey Ryan vs. a guy like Colt Cabana or Grado is fine (hell, I'd watch either of those matches right now), but putting him against Primate and having the match be anything short of a literal mauling is fucking childish. That said, I've heard interviews with him and it seems like he actually does have respect for the business and could become a legit wrestler if he cared to put the time in, so the fact that he chooses to do this stupid gimmick is baffling.
Yup true, just spot fest and flips everywhere, No selling, No in ring Physiology, they don't tell stories in the ring anymore, slow pace and No technical wrestling, just highspots and spot fest. The best wrestling to me right now Is NXT and NXT/UK, NJPW)
No, Jim Cornette and Dave Meltzer can't be fighting, i have the wrestling gold collection both did commentary for years ago, my opinion it's still the best wrestling collection out there.
Yeah but that wasn't really a argument, they disagreed but it wasn't anything major, Bryan and Dave brought up points and Cornette basically said "yeah but it still sucks" but in a nice away especially by Cornette standards.
If Meltzer says bad about Cornette for being biased, tell him to look in the mirror. Meltzer give 5+ star opinions on his Indy and japan matches if they include Kenny Omega, the Young Bucks, etc lol.
I just went and searched Joey Ryan and this "manly parts" toss as up till now never heard of or for that matter seen it. If that is what passes as wrestling today, glad I stopped watching wrestling around 1990'. But then this "manly parts" toss makes the silly crap sold as wrestling in 1990 seem like the best of the best of classic wrestling. I was willing to accept that Corney's claim that wrestling is dead could be subjective but now I think Corney is being very objective in his proclamations.
If I'm not mistaken, ric flair vs steamboat 2 had already been given 6 stars and is considered the best fight in history by many; misawa vs kawada 1993
I think Jim should check out NXT UK sometime. There's a lot less of the flippy stuff (compared to other shows), more emphasis on impact and realism, and the crowd's way more into the matches. Oh, and Walter, of course. I've never been 100% on board the hype train for Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks, and I have to be in a special mood to sit through a whole NJPW show. It's not that I don't like it, it's just a lot to take in through one sitting.
I agree, also NXT & NXTUK they have actual wrestling, they tell stories in the ring and they do in ring Physiology, and they sell. It's okay to have highspots but like 10 in one match...Just 3 is okay that goes with the match...not spot fest. Nxt and NXTuk are legit great wrestling, it has everything, techical wrestling, amature wrestling, Strong style, realism.
Did he say Chuck Taylor looks like he couldn't whip cream with an out-board motor? Holy hell. CAUTION: DO NOT LISTEN TO A CORNY RANT WHILE DRIVING......
@@nathantturnert1631 Yes. Finally! Not only was it unsafe to drive while listening to this because of laughter. It was also unsafe because it was so funny that I nearly choked on my chilli dog from laughing, which almost caused me to wreck, which then forced me to pull over and calm down. Plus, I was laughing so hard that my eyes were watering. Yep, just whatever you do, don't listen to a Corny rant while either driving, eating, drinking, operating heavy machinery, before, during, or after sex. The results could be catastrophic. Heed my warning. ✌🏽
So relieved to hear Cornette not walking anything backwards despite his respect for Meltzer. With that being said, it is my opinion that has so much love for Meltzer because Corny was one of Meltzer's sources through the years and therefore can't very well bury Meltzer because it would make Corny look like a goof if it were to ever be confirmed that he was a source. I also think Bruce Prichard was/is one of Meltzer's sources.
Fast forward a couple of years and Meltzer and Cornette had a falling out because Meltzer is too infatuated over the Elite, the piece of shit known as Kenny Olivier, and think their style of wrestling is the greatest thing known to all that is man 🤦♂️.
Jim has a point, to an extent, with some of the blatant stupidity that happens on indie wrestling; Joey Ryan's spots are embarassing, and some of the comedy stuff that PWG puts into their otherwise "legit" matchs is way over the top. But, Jim also acts like it's impossible to have an intentionally "fake" wrestling match. Kenny Omega "wrestling" a girl isn't destroying the wrestling business any more than the Harlem Globetrotters destroyed basketball, or martial arts exhibitions destroy MMA. When everyone involved goes into the match openly acknowledging that you're about to watch an *exhibition*, where Omega is going to put on a show match vs. a girl or a doll not because he wants to pretend he's fighting a girl, but because he wants to show off his (and her) skills, I don't see why that's a problem.
Bottom line, no wrestler is above the business. There is a place for comedy wrestling, but you cannot portray yourself as a comedy wrestler one day and then as a serious wrestler the next. That being said, the wrestling business is already exposed. That cat is out of the bag.
Define great money? No way he makes over a $100K a year. Sells merch hand over fist? I'm sure Amazon is shipping thousands of his shirts a day. You're delusional.
Joey Ryan “Superheroes aren’t real” Yeah and I guarantee if Hollywood writers made Batman or Ironman do something insanely stupid the fans outrage would be immense so that’s a terrible example
1. Thank you for calling out the Bucks of Youth and their "super" kick which they have to do 7 - 8 times per match. Real f-in super. 2. If Wayne Rooney can keep a United contract then I have to say just about anyone can play for them.
To "not understand" why people like the Ultimate Warrior is pretty stupid. He was entertaining. He was fun to watch. He brought a ton of energy. Just to name a few. If you were a kid then that was what wrestling was about. That's why people were fans of him.
After all this hubub about the grenade spot, I have to ask. Is there a way to get Cornette to watch the IWRG ladder match from a couple years ago? The one with LA Park, Doc Wagner Jr, Alberto Del Rio's brother, Pirata Morgan, Mascara Sagrada and the fattest clown to ever get rolled into a wrestling ring? I am positive that would be the best 40 minutes ever put on a stream
Only the smarks care about what he has to say. Meltzer comes off like such an asshole, know it all on most of his publications. Meltzer defends the stupidity of the Kenny Omega character but he crapped all over The Undertaker vs Underfaker angle for the same kind of stupidity.
NO such thing as a smark. The term smark was made up by marks who think they know better than other marks. Even if the term smark was real, it died with the invention of the internet.
Wow....Jim must REALLY hate Kenny Omega's chainsaw spot. Where he supposedly shaves his forearms a couple days before a match, so just hard stubble grows back & he rakes it across an opponent's eyes.
PWG isnt pro wrestling because they willfully turn down potential ticket sales by booking that same bingo hall. if they arent working, what the fuck are they doing?
Jim Cornette would be a NXT and NXTUK and NWA guy, he would enjoy that kind of wrestling, they tell actual stories in the ring and use in ring Phyisology, and they do what is missing today in pro wrestling they sell, they have everything great storytelling, Technical wrestling, amature wrestling, strong style, some MMA influences, and great promos, and some Highspots. They don't over do it with the spot fests....they do it only twice or 3 times in one night.
I perfectly called it when Jim was gonna say "He did these things in a 100% comedy promotion years ago. So he's horrible" ... Does Jim know that Kenny wasn't the DDT booker? Cause he wasn't.... He didn't book the matches... He was told to wrestle the little girl and the blow up doll....
adrian vergara And? Once again, should you seriously condemn Omega's entire career because he wrestled comedy matches? Cornette legit said he should be exiled from the business because he wrestled comedy matches in a comedy promotion. That's insanely fucking stupid.
raspymorten Never said Kenny Omega should leave the business because of that, just telling you that Cornette said that wrestlers also have choices when it comes down to what goes on in the ring as well. Kenny is not half bad in the ring, I think he's just too used to that fast paced style that younger wrestlers like to do now a days. Except Joey Ryan, Cornette is 100% right, he's a piece of shit in the ring and needs to go lol
I'm not saying you did. It's exactly what Cornette said. >Cornette said that wrestlers also have choices when it comes down to what goes on in the ring as well. And? Should relative newcomer at the time Kenny Omega start acting like a jackass that was "too good for this comedy crap"? Yeah, that would've let him go far. Demanding to wrestle serious matches in the comedy promotion would've made the owners just fall to their knees and start sucking his dick. >I think he's just too used to that fast paced style that younger wrestlers like to do now a days ...What, should he start doing 50 headlocks and arm drags every match because he's "Too used to the style"? Should D-Bry start pulling out Lucha Libre moves because he's "too used" to mat grappling? >Except Joey Ryan, Cornette is 100% right, he's a piece of shit in the ring Why? Cause he does some comedy spots in his matches to pop the crowd?
Didn't know what the invisible grenade was. Googled it and watched one. It is probably the dumbest thing that I've ever seen in wrestling entertainment. The one finger death poke was even more entertaining than that. Why would fans tolerate that BS? So stupid.
I may not agree with everything cornette says (though I usually do agree) but I do see what he means about stuff looking too choreographed. Alot of wrestling today looks too choreographed. I watch alot of old school wrestling. Today's wrestling flows better and is aesthetically pleasing but it doesn't have that old school grit that wrestling used to have. When u watched Terry funk and stan Hanson and big van Vader they looked like they were trying to kill you. I like guys today like Daniel bryan and Pete Dunn. I even like omega though he is a little overrated. Okada is the real star of those matches. Okada can slow it down and draw it out. Kenny sometimes goes into hyper mode when he doesn't need too. Osprey does it too sometimes. I just miss wrestlers like the funks, Harley race and dusty Rhodes. Larger then life personas. Wrestling doesn't have that right now outside of okada.
Majority of what he's saying is legitimate and makes sense, but getting upset they dropkicked the kid for his birthday in front of people is sorta asinine. Everyone in the world over 10 knows wrestling is staged and fake so if they did a good job of making it seem legit then that shows talent I guess
Doing that slaps it in everyone's faces that pro-wrestling is choreographed. That's Jim's issue. It continues to prevent the suspension of disbelief. If next week, they are supposed to knock someone out with a superkick, it's sorta ruined when the fans can just pull up a video of a kid getting up and walking away from the same move.
@@tankwfw Why not? If you think anyone in 2019 is gonna react to fake ass phony wrestling the way that hilljacks in Kentuckiana did in 1978, you're a complete fucking moron and behind the times.
I love how the internet turned all these old wrestling dudes in to highschoolers. lol. I like Jim. I just find it hilarious how everyone is always feuding with everyone when 20 years ago a lot of these guys would have been friends with some rare exceptions.
I disagree with Cornette about everyone looking stupid at the comedy club because Keith Richards or whatever the Hell his name is that Seinfeld dude using the n-word. While I agree often when it comes to wrestling with Cornette I disagree with his collective mindset.
Meltzer went nuts bc it’s how he makes a living. He has to prop up these shitty outlaw promotions to have fodder for his newsletter. Pretty much everyone I know who is still a fan watches WWE, TNA, Lucha Undrground, the new NWA, etc and just complains how it sucks. Classic wrestling is pretty much all I watch. Fucking invisible hand grenades. 3 Stooges antics. I can’t watch that shit either.
tell um jim...i dont like kenny omega either..............especially after the blow up doll and the little children which is depravedif i was jim i might be saying maybe i better start picking my friends a little bit more closely
I miss the 80s as well. I had never heard of or seen Joey Ryan, Kenny Omega, etc. I looked them up subsequently and that's not pro-wrestling. That's Pajama Boy Promotions.
I like Jimmy but anyone who uses a ether spot in the 2010's in a promotion like Ring Of Honor and expects fans to buy it is seriously behind the times. What worked in 1970's Tennessee (which had its share of business exposing garbage) won't work with an audience in 2017.
Swap PWG out for AEW in this video and it's as relevant as ever, including talking about Ospreay, Ricochet, Omega, the flippy shit, and the bullshit antics.
Also, if I were Dave, the one guy I would not want to debate wrestling with would be Jim. Being IN the business and BLOWING everyone in the business for information are completely different lifestyles.
I respect Jim's opinion and insight on a lot of things, and I even get what he says when he talked about underdeveloped talents resorting to flippy moves without developing the basics. There's definite nuance in some of what he says, but the problem is that he throws a lot of that nuance out the window arbitrarily. He can be rather inconsistent with himself and where he allows compromises with his opinions. The way he insists on maintaining some sort of "reputation" for the wrestling business, and the way he insists that comedy wrestling and flippy wrestling aren't evolutions of the sport, it all just feels way outdated and out of touch, as much as he may have a few good points about them. I think the key issue around this whole debate is really the question of whether kayfabe is dead, whether it should stay dead, or whether it should continue to cling on for dear life in today's wrestling scene. The way I see it, unironic kayfabe can still have its place in some storylines. But the days in which it was treated as a protected concept and universal standard of work ethic for wrestling is long gone, and in its place we have the more flexible concept of suspension of disbelief. Audiences don't just mark themselves out wholesale to the entirety of wrestling these days. They're able to actually think for themselves and choose where their own suspension of disbelief is being stetched too far or not, and that's just something Jim never gives enough wrestling fans (even casual fans) credit for. All this demonization of Kenny Omega's early work in DDT, or the Young Bucks' superkicks, or Joey Ryan's comedy wrestling. All of Jim's arguments about those would be moot points if he could just comprehend the way suspension of disbelief applies these days in wrestling, over traditional kayfabe.
Jim agrees that wrestling is subjective and in the next 2 minutes says that he doesn't like Kenny Omega because of "the stupid shit he did in wrestling" with zero fucking sense of irony.
PWG sells out in seconds PWG draws PWG is good for wrestling Young Bucks sell out everywhere they go, sells tons of merch, and Matt set up one of War Machine for the Meltzer driver. Cornette needs to realize that the BUSINESS has changed. His 70s vision of how things should be Those outlaw promotions = more eyes on wrestling. WWE is losing fans by the thousands
Cornette is the most intelligent man in wrestling. Reluctant, old-fashioned, set in his ways but understands the fundamentals of the business better than anyone else. Dave Meltzer is a fucking mark. Brilliant in how he figured out a way to make living talking about something scripted but his opinion shouldn't matter anymore than the local newstand guy or the kid with only one testicle from a few comments below.
wmfthehorseman dave never said his opinion mattered more than anyone else's, and he certainly didn't say that someone should be fired or banned from the business cause he did a spot he didn't like
It doesn't matter what Meltzer said about the value of his opinion. And if you think this is about SPOTS someone doesn't like, I suggest taking your head out of your keister so that you can hear better. It isn't about spots he doesn't like. It is about spots that EXPOSE THE BUSINESS i.e. stupid crap that kills the suspension of disbelief that it is combat and not two guys working together.
People growing up in the 80's and 90's trash today's metal, Old school NBA fans trash today's NBA, old hip hop heads trash today's music. Same goes for today's wrestling. This all stems from people that like to think the older stuff is better, but things change, those that don't like it start to bash others that like it. I find that highly annoying. Yeah I like 2002 WWE, however things are different now and I like it. Same with music or sports.
I grew up in the 80's and 90's and music then was superior to today. However there is still good metal coming out so that's the one genera which you should not have chosen for your comment. However, facts are simply this. Some things improve over time. Some things degrade over time. To just assume things are bad now because they aren't the same is just as wrong as to assume that things are better now because they are different. And some changes are definitely NOT for the better (Music I'm looking at you).
Paul Miller I chose that genre because as a fan of grindcore, Deathcore, anything that has mainly screaming, you will get people talking shit, go to any video and read the comments and there are people talking shit.
Meanwhile, much of today's Metal lacks heart, the NBA has had so many rule changes that farting will get you a technical foul, stupid little untrained backyarders and trashbaggers think they can do what they see on TV, and many of the wrestlers coming up today do not have the same attitude about the industry to even learn how to sell or proper ring psychology. Do you understand now?
I’m 20 years old and the silly shit disgusts me, I am so sick of bein ridiculed for being a wrestling fan, when the wrestlers don’t take it serious, no one else will.
it's not the evolution of wrestling but the devolution of the mark fans accepting the bullshit accepting the flips and accepting the lack of psychology
The problem is that Cornette DOESN"T seem to accept that wrestling is subjective. He routinely takes a "my way or the highway" approach and that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way about what he has to say about this stuff. Additionally, he makes himself look extremely out of touch when he acts like all of these indie guys are nobodies when they're some of the most popular and in demand indie workers in the world and make as much money as a lot of the WWE guys and uses antiquated and obsolete terms like "outlaw promotion" At least 3 of the guys in that PWG match he criticized regularly appear on national television and 2 or 3 more have worked for WWE. They're not just indie guys getting "a few bookings". Jim has been an incredible talent who's forgotten more about wrestling than most people will ever know, but it's sad that he's let his''inability to be flexible consign him to a point where there's no longer a place where he can use those skills.
A lot of these guys have good, measured, polite responses. Many of them even say positive things about Cornette who responds by ranting like an absolute lunatic and issuing over the top threats.
I agree completely. I respect Jim's opinion and insight on a lot of things, and I even get what he says when he talked about underdeveloped talents resorting to flippy moves without developing the basics. There's definite nuance in some of what he says, but the problem is that he throws a lot of that nuance out the window arbitrarily. He can be rather inconsistent, and sometimes rather obnoxiously. The way he insists on maintaining some sort of "reputation" for the wrestling business, and the way he insists that comedy wrestling and flippy wrestling aren't evolutions of the sport, it all just feels way outdated and out of touch, as much as he may have a few good points about them. I think the key issue around this whole debate is really the question of whether kayfabe is dead, whether it should stay dead, or whether it should continue to cling on for dear life in today's wrestling scene. The way I see it, unironic kayfabe can still have its place in some storylines. But the days in which it was treated as a protected concept and universal standard of work ethic for wrestling is long gone, and in its place we have the more flexible concept of suspension of disbelief. Audiences don't just mark themselves out wholesale to the entirety of wrestling these days. They're able to actually think for themselves and choose where their own suspension of disbelief is being stetched too far or not, and that's just something Jim never gives enough wrestling fans, even casual fans, credit for. All this demonization of Kenny Omega's early work in DDT, or the Young Bucks' superkicks, or Joey Ryan's comedy wrestling. All of Jim's arguments about those would be moot points if he would just try and open himself up to suspension of disbelief over traditional kayfabe.
This was the beginning of the end of Meltzer and Cornette friendship.
Its crazy to listen to the in 2023 and hear Jim say he liked the Young Bucks personally at any point!!
"Couldn't whip cream with an outboard motor" is definitely my new favorite Corny-ism
I don't mind "flippy shit" or (most) comedy wrestling, (I didn't mind the lollipop thing) but fuck the Joey Ryan dick suplex. Just fuck that spot. I hate it.
Also I think putting a comedy wrestler like Joey Ryan in the ring with a genuine guy is fucking stupid. Joey Ryan vs. a guy like Colt Cabana or Grado is fine (hell, I'd watch either of those matches right now), but putting him against Primate and having the match be anything short of a literal mauling is fucking childish.
That said, I've heard interviews with him and it seems like he actually does have respect for the business and could become a legit wrestler if he cared to put the time in, so the fact that he chooses to do this stupid gimmick is baffling.
“Boiled in oil and have his fat sold for soap”
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey yooooo!
Dave Meltzer is just as credible as someone who believes that jazz hands could actually beat up someone in real life
This aged like fine wine
What happened to the Dave Meltzer from "Wrestling with Shadows" who scoffed at the idea of a diaper match?
Great point I had forgotten about that
Wow
He was kidnapped and murdered by a body double who would love that same match if somebody suggested it in AEW.
I tried to watch Ring of Honor recently and was extremely disappointed. It just looked like choreography and gymnastics, not wrestling.
Yup true,
just spot fest and flips everywhere, No selling, No in ring Physiology, they don't tell stories in the ring anymore, slow pace and No technical wrestling, just highspots and spot fest. The best wrestling to me right now Is NXT and NXT/UK, NJPW)
I’m on cornette’s side here, you really can’t argue or defend that phony crap against logic
19:35 Brian was right all along.
Cornette is on point here. Good stuff.
Dave Meltzer lives in his mom's basement and eats hot pockets and his boogers
GG Allin I think he has a crush on the young bucks, in a recent clip he described one of them as “cute”
Thank you sir. I needed that
Hey leave hot pockets out of it
You ever hear those old recordings where his mother is in the background? Its comedy gold.
facts
Dave is a "smart" mark. He knows everything about the wrestling business except for what it takes to be successful and help it flourish.
I never saw the Dynamite Kid do anything that looked blatantly phony.
That is the point, Jeff.
Why do people hang onto every one of Diamond Dave Meltzer's words like it came down from the heavens?
meltzer is a mark and charges ppl for rumors and sometimrs totally made up stories.
You know. There's no point in putting a child in a wrestling spot.
They aren't trained. If the child is injured, the promotion is sued.
The whole roster are children at the mudshows
Jim speaks nothing, but truth
At this point, every Joey Ryan wrestling match is just a vanity project for him.
No, Jim Cornette and Dave Meltzer can't be fighting, i have the wrestling gold collection both did commentary for years ago, my opinion it's still the best wrestling collection out there.
i will do what i always do with cornette and save one more relationship that has gone south for him.
+Kenny Bolin the Russo thing didn't workout like you thought it would but people actually want this mix up resolved so best of luck to you Starmaker.
Alex's take is correct.
Travis W They argued over Lucha Underground
Yeah but that wasn't really a argument, they disagreed but it wasn't anything major, Bryan and Dave brought up points and Cornette basically said "yeah but it still sucks" but in a nice away especially by Cornette standards.
this might be the most complimentary corny was ever to Omega and the Bucks 😂
If Meltzer says bad about Cornette for being biased, tell him to look in the mirror. Meltzer give 5+ star opinions on his Indy and japan matches if they include Kenny Omega, the Young Bucks, etc lol.
Ok but did you watch the matches?
Lol, Dave loves AEW. Peter Dinklage is too tall for that roster.
@@Tizontheska I have seen those matches they are not 5 star matches.
He gave 5 stars to Golden Lovers vs Young Bucks and that was a complete botchfest. That killed any legitimacy in Meltzer's ratings.
I just went and searched Joey Ryan and this "manly parts" toss as up till now never heard of or for that matter seen it. If that is what passes as wrestling today, glad I stopped watching wrestling around 1990'. But then this "manly parts" toss makes the silly crap sold as wrestling in 1990 seem like the best of the best of classic wrestling. I was willing to accept that Corney's claim that wrestling is dead could be subjective but now I think Corney is being very objective in his proclamations.
Well, Meltzer invented a 6 star rating for the sole purpose of showcasing Omega even harder...
Baron Corbin is more over than Omega
If I'm not mistaken, ric flair vs steamboat 2 had already been given 6 stars and is considered the best fight in history by many; misawa vs kawada 1993
@@emilianosanabria836 You are mistaken.
I think Jim should check out NXT UK sometime. There's a lot less of the flippy stuff (compared to other shows), more emphasis on impact and realism, and the crowd's way more into the matches. Oh, and Walter, of course.
I've never been 100% on board the hype train for Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks, and I have to be in a special mood to sit through a whole NJPW show. It's not that I don't like it, it's just a lot to take in through one sitting.
I agree, also NXT & NXTUK they have actual wrestling, they tell stories in the ring and they do in ring Physiology, and they sell. It's okay to have highspots but like 10 in one match...Just 3 is okay that goes with the match...not spot fest. Nxt and NXTuk are legit great wrestling, it has everything, techical wrestling, amature wrestling, Strong style, realism.
Did he say Chuck Taylor looks like he couldn't whip cream with an out-board motor? Holy hell.
CAUTION: DO NOT LISTEN TO A CORNY RANT WHILE DRIVING......
U ever make it home safe?
@@nathantturnert1631 Yes. Finally! Not only was it unsafe to drive while listening to this because of laughter. It was also unsafe because it was so funny that I nearly choked on my chilli dog from laughing, which almost caused me to wreck, which then forced me to pull over and calm down. Plus, I was laughing so hard that my eyes were watering.
Yep, just whatever you do, don't listen to a Corny rant while either driving, eating, drinking, operating heavy machinery, before, during, or after sex. The results could be catastrophic. Heed my warning.
✌🏽
@@SSJ2Phenom Haha good to know man. And thanks I'll take that advice for sure. Never know when he'll crack you up. Take care
@@nathantturnert1631 You too man.
So relieved to hear Cornette not walking anything backwards despite his respect for Meltzer.
With that being said, it is my opinion that has so much love for Meltzer because Corny was one of Meltzer's sources through the years and therefore can't very well bury Meltzer because it would make Corny look like a goof if it were to ever be confirmed that he was a source. I also think Bruce Prichard was/is one of Meltzer's sources.
Fast forward a couple of years and Meltzer and Cornette had a falling out because Meltzer is too infatuated over the Elite, the piece of shit known as Kenny Olivier, and think their style of wrestling is the greatest thing known to all that is man 🤦♂️.
Well well well, look how the turn tables have turntabled. Do you still think Cornette is trying to protect himself or something?
I decided to call “Uncle Dave” out his B/S on Twitter... And I’ll be... I won the Pony. He blocked me.....
Me too and a whole host of anyone who hates the young fucks and Olivier
Jim has a point, to an extent, with some of the blatant stupidity that happens on indie wrestling; Joey Ryan's spots are embarassing, and some of the comedy stuff that PWG puts into their otherwise "legit" matchs is way over the top.
But, Jim also acts like it's impossible to have an intentionally "fake" wrestling match. Kenny Omega "wrestling" a girl isn't destroying the wrestling business any more than the Harlem Globetrotters destroyed basketball, or martial arts exhibitions destroy MMA. When everyone involved goes into the match openly acknowledging that you're about to watch an *exhibition*, where Omega is going to put on a show match vs. a girl or a doll not because he wants to pretend he's fighting a girl, but because he wants to show off his (and her) skills, I don't see why that's a problem.
Bottom line, no wrestler is above the business. There is a place for comedy wrestling, but you cannot portray yourself as a comedy wrestler one day and then as a serious wrestler the next. That being said, the wrestling business is already exposed. That cat is out of the bag.
Meltzer, Cornette and "recent"; best UA-cam search ever
Cornette is right. These guys wrestle in front of 300 fans. He's in it to make money.
Youth Gone Wild joey ryan, makes great money because the fans like him and he sells merch hand over fist
Define great money? No way he makes over a $100K a year. Sells merch hand over fist? I'm sure Amazon is shipping thousands of his shirts a day. You're delusional.
Joey Ryan “Superheroes aren’t real”
Yeah and I guarantee if Hollywood writers made Batman or Ironman do something insanely stupid the fans outrage would be immense so that’s a terrible example
This shit has really been going on for 5 long years. Good lord how do these dudes still get booked.
Maybe It was the Holy Grenade from Monty Python?
1. Thank you for calling out the Bucks of Youth and their "super" kick which they have to do 7 - 8 times per match. Real f-in super.
2. If Wayne Rooney can keep a United contract then I have to say just about anyone can play for them.
At first I thought this was before he discovered Omega vs a child because he was a lot nicer here than some of his recent thoughts lol
Look at meltzer's office. Jesus christ what a mess.
We're all entitled to our opinions
love listening to cornette talk
Didn't think I would click on a 7 year old video and hear the name Chuck Taylor. Dude has been failing for longer than I realized
What was the issue with Dynamite vs Tiger?
To "not understand" why people like the Ultimate Warrior is pretty stupid. He was entertaining. He was fun to watch. He brought a ton of energy. Just to name a few. If you were a kid then that was what wrestling was about. That's why people were fans of him.
this should be like the Cornette/Bolin great debate.
meltzer roles with it because if he doesnt he's out of a job, thats why he's moaning.
Keep in mind that, just because it's happening now, doesn't mean it's good.
Don't most people usually think the opposite, that what's happening now sucks compared to the past?
Jeffrey Riley yep WWE is so awful right now its stupid
Most people go with the flow, I think. The people who defend the present are usually the ones making money/profiting in other ways off it.
Jeffrey Riley you really dont think that people are defending it cause its what they genuinely enjoy?
I'm very happy for them if they enjoy it because it's what's happening.
After all this hubub about the grenade spot, I have to ask. Is there a way to get Cornette to watch the IWRG ladder match from a couple years ago? The one with LA Park, Doc Wagner Jr, Alberto Del Rio's brother, Pirata Morgan, Mascara Sagrada and the fattest clown to ever get rolled into a wrestling ring? I am positive that would be the best 40 minutes ever put on a stream
Holy shit i forgot i got to see Tiger mask vs Mr.w2 in tulsa thank you for jogging my memory
It has long puzzled me why anyone cares, at all, what Dave Meltzer says. He's just a wrestling fan, not a wrestler.
Right
Because he's been running an influential publication that's widely read and well-respected for longer than most fans have been alive. Duh.
Bingo.
Only the smarks care about what he has to say. Meltzer comes off like such an asshole, know it all on most of his publications. Meltzer defends the stupidity of the Kenny Omega character but he crapped all over The Undertaker vs Underfaker angle for the same kind of stupidity.
NO such thing as a smark. The term smark was made up by marks who think they know better than other marks. Even if the term smark was real, it died with the invention of the internet.
The Corn knows
Wow....Jim must REALLY hate Kenny Omega's chainsaw spot. Where he supposedly shaves his forearms a couple days before a match, so just hard stubble grows back & he rakes it across an opponent's eyes.
I saw that spot complete with Olivier’s extremely constipated butt plug faces. It was stupid.
PWG isnt pro wrestling because they willfully turn down potential ticket sales by booking that same bingo hall. if they arent working, what the fuck are they doing?
Jim Cornette would be a NXT and NXTUK and NWA guy, he would enjoy that kind of wrestling, they tell actual stories in the ring and use in ring Phyisology, and they do what is missing today in pro wrestling they sell, they have everything great storytelling, Technical wrestling, amature wrestling, strong style, some MMA influences, and great promos, and some Highspots. They don't over do it with the spot fests....they do it only twice or 3 times in one night.
NXT is great
It's the future of wrestling
I perfectly called it when Jim was gonna say "He did these things in a 100% comedy promotion years ago. So he's horrible"
... Does Jim know that Kenny wasn't the DDT booker?
Cause he wasn't.... He didn't book the matches... He was told to wrestle the little girl and the blow up doll....
raspymorten He also said that wrestlers have an obligation not to do stupid shit like that, wrestling little girls and blow up dolls is idiotic.
adrian vergara And? Once again, should you seriously condemn Omega's entire career because he wrestled comedy matches?
Cornette legit said he should be exiled from the business because he wrestled comedy matches in a comedy promotion. That's insanely fucking stupid.
raspymorten Never said Kenny Omega should leave the business because of that, just telling you that Cornette said that wrestlers also have choices when it comes down to what goes on in the ring as well. Kenny is not half bad in the ring, I think he's just too used to that fast paced style that younger wrestlers like to do now a days. Except Joey Ryan, Cornette is 100% right, he's a piece of shit in the ring and needs to go lol
I'm not saying you did.
It's exactly what Cornette said.
>Cornette said that wrestlers also have choices when it comes down to what goes on in the ring as well.
And? Should relative newcomer at the time Kenny Omega start acting like a jackass that was "too good for this comedy crap"? Yeah, that would've let him go far. Demanding to wrestle serious matches in the comedy promotion would've made the owners just fall to their knees and start sucking his dick.
>I think he's just too used to that fast paced style that younger wrestlers like to do now a days
...What, should he start doing 50 headlocks and arm drags every match because he's "Too used to the style"?
Should D-Bry start pulling out Lucha Libre moves because he's "too used" to mat grappling?
>Except Joey Ryan, Cornette is 100% right, he's a piece of shit in the ring
Why? Cause he does some comedy spots in his matches to pop the crowd?
If they told him to murder a fan, would that be excusable too?
the organization made kenny do that. he didn't do that on his own. why isn't he burying the company?
Didn't know what the invisible grenade was. Googled it and watched one. It is probably the dumbest thing that I've ever seen in wrestling entertainment. The one finger death poke was even more entertaining than that. Why would fans tolerate that BS? So stupid.
Chuck Taylor slow Motion spot is the best thing I've seen in wrestling. Much better than beach ball mania. Look it up. It's awesome
Youre an idiot
I may not agree with everything cornette says (though I usually do agree) but I do see what he means about stuff looking too choreographed. Alot of wrestling today looks too choreographed. I watch alot of old school wrestling. Today's wrestling flows better and is aesthetically pleasing but it doesn't have that old school grit that wrestling used to have. When u watched Terry funk and stan Hanson and big van Vader they looked like they were trying to kill you. I like guys today like Daniel bryan and Pete Dunn. I even like omega though he is a little overrated. Okada is the real star of those matches. Okada can slow it down and draw it out. Kenny sometimes goes into hyper mode when he doesn't need too. Osprey does it too sometimes. I just miss wrestlers like the funks, Harley race and dusty Rhodes. Larger then life personas. Wrestling doesn't have that right now outside of okada.
This didn't age well. 😆😂
I saw Joey Ryan vs Grado...you can imagine how that was.
Didnt Stone Cold ride a bicycle to the ring or something like that one time??
Actually Stone Cold Rode An ATV Undertaker Rode A Motorcycle
the crowd like the spots, they're the real critics
Majority of what he's saying is legitimate and makes sense, but getting upset they dropkicked the kid for his birthday in front of people is sorta asinine. Everyone in the world over 10 knows wrestling is staged and fake so if they did a good job of making it seem legit then that shows talent I guess
Doing that slaps it in everyone's faces that pro-wrestling is choreographed. That's Jim's issue. It continues to prevent the suspension of disbelief. If next week, they are supposed to knock someone out with a superkick, it's sorta ruined when the fans can just pull up a video of a kid getting up and walking away from the same move.
I wonder what Cornette would think about the Osirian Portal's hypnosis/most illegal thing in wrestling spot. Say what you will it was pretty funny.
If you want funny wrestling that's fine. But do not mix it with serious
@@tankwfw Why not? If you think anyone in 2019 is gonna react to fake ass phony wrestling the way that hilljacks in Kentuckiana did in 1978, you're a complete fucking moron and behind the times.
Jim is cruel but fair.
VIVA CORNETTE
The young bucks superkicked a nine year old kid for his birthday??? What in the fuck
I love how the internet turned all these old wrestling dudes in to highschoolers. lol.
I like Jim. I just find it hilarious how everyone is always feuding with everyone when 20 years ago a lot of these guys would have been friends with some rare exceptions.
Yeah.
I disagree with Cornette about everyone looking stupid at the comedy club because Keith Richards or whatever the Hell his name is that Seinfeld dude using the n-word. While I agree often when it comes to wrestling with Cornette I disagree with his collective mindset.
Meltzer went nuts bc it’s how he makes a living. He has to prop up these shitty outlaw promotions to have fodder for his newsletter. Pretty much everyone I know who is still a fan watches WWE, TNA, Lucha Undrground, the new NWA, etc and just complains how it sucks. Classic wrestling is pretty much all I watch. Fucking invisible hand grenades. 3 Stooges antics. I can’t watch that shit either.
tell um jim...i dont like kenny omega either..............especially after the blow up doll and the little children which is depravedif i was jim i might be saying maybe i better start picking my friends a little bit more closely
I miss the 80s as well. I had never heard of or seen Joey Ryan, Kenny Omega, etc. I looked them up subsequently and that's not pro-wrestling. That's Pajama Boy Promotions.
chazatlas I can see your point with Joey but omega has not done comedy crap since about 2011-2012
chazatlas im sorry youve been left behind
chazatlas omega is a great athelete but he is way too dramatic and his facials are weird. Plus he doesnt sell too much.
Not Hachiman Hikigaya bullshit, Omega was Princess Jasmine, in ring, for Halloween.
chazatlas Omega can go. Ignorant shits like you just yes man your boy Corny.
I like Jimmy but anyone who uses a ether spot in the 2010's in a promotion like Ring Of Honor and expects fans to buy it is seriously behind the times. What worked in 1970's Tennessee (which had its share of business exposing garbage) won't work with an audience in 2017.
Pretty much anyone can play for Manchester United these days
Swap PWG out for AEW in this video and it's as relevant as ever, including talking about Ospreay, Ricochet, Omega, the flippy shit, and the bullshit antics.
The grenade spot started in Chikara
Why does everyone have to tiptoe around meltzer.. As soon as someone says something he doesn't agree with he talks shit about them..
Also, if I were Dave, the one guy I would not want to debate wrestling with would be Jim. Being IN the business and BLOWING everyone in the business for information are completely different lifestyles.
I can understand it being stupid. But did the people in attendance have a problem with it? They are catering to a certain audience.
Cornette Classic
Now he can't stand the ground the young bucks walk on or the air the hardly boyz breathe
🌽. 🌽, its whats for dinner. More 🌽 please. Long live the 🌽. Pass the 🌽. 🌽, the other other white meat.
I'm glad guns are legal in usa otherwise Jim Cornette would not be allows to talk and we wouldn't be enjoying his podcast !
Michael Richards using N word not ok.Blacks making fun of whites during their shows is ok
I watched the clip i can't believe it but the grenade thing is real
I miss the 80s too man...gotta let it go though.
and i miss 90s :(
I miss the erliy 00s
No
Meltzer just panders to the fans.
In what way? He constantly underrates matches people like and you could say cornette panders to a certain audience.
Poor Uncle Dave! :''0
Kenny omega is disqualified, lmfao.
I respect Jim's opinion and insight on a lot of things, and I even get what he says when he talked about underdeveloped talents resorting to flippy moves without developing the basics. There's definite nuance in some of what he says, but the problem is that he throws a lot of that nuance out the window arbitrarily. He can be rather inconsistent with himself and where he allows compromises with his opinions. The way he insists on maintaining some sort of "reputation" for the wrestling business, and the way he insists that comedy wrestling and flippy wrestling aren't evolutions of the sport, it all just feels way outdated and out of touch, as much as he may have a few good points about them.
I think the key issue around this whole debate is really the question of whether kayfabe is dead, whether it should stay dead, or whether it should continue to cling on for dear life in today's wrestling scene. The way I see it, unironic kayfabe can still have its place in some storylines. But the days in which it was treated as a protected concept and universal standard of work ethic for wrestling is long gone, and in its place we have the more flexible concept of suspension of disbelief. Audiences don't just mark themselves out wholesale to the entirety of wrestling these days. They're able to actually think for themselves and choose where their own suspension of disbelief is being stetched too far or not, and that's just something Jim never gives enough wrestling fans (even casual fans) credit for. All this demonization of Kenny Omega's early work in DDT, or the Young Bucks' superkicks, or Joey Ryan's comedy wrestling. All of Jim's arguments about those would be moot points if he could just comprehend the way suspension of disbelief applies these days in wrestling, over traditional kayfabe.
Jim agrees that wrestling is subjective and in the next 2 minutes says that he doesn't like Kenny Omega because of "the stupid shit he did in wrestling" with zero fucking sense of irony.
That's his opinion
imo its all for publicity..look at the attention they getting. I really believe they friend now..behind the scenes...both cutting gold promos
Well, this didn't age well. 😂
PWG sells out in seconds
PWG draws
PWG is good for wrestling
Young Bucks sell out everywhere they go, sells tons of merch, and Matt set up one of War Machine for the Meltzer driver.
Cornette needs to realize that the BUSINESS has changed. His 70s vision of how things should be
Those outlaw promotions = more eyes on wrestling. WWE is losing fans by the thousands
Cornette is the most intelligent man in wrestling. Reluctant, old-fashioned, set in his ways but understands the fundamentals of the business better than anyone else.
Dave Meltzer is a fucking mark. Brilliant in how he figured out a way to make living talking about something scripted but his opinion shouldn't matter anymore than the local newstand guy or the kid with only one testicle from a few comments below.
wmfthehorseman dave never said his opinion mattered more than anyone else's, and he certainly didn't say that someone should be fired or banned from the business cause he did a spot he didn't like
"He" doesn't have to say it, the amount of marks that swear by his "rating system" already elevate his opinion above most people's.
wmfthehorseman so because people like his opinion it's valued more
It doesn't matter what Meltzer said about the value of his opinion. And if you think this is about SPOTS someone doesn't like, I suggest taking your head out of your keister so that you can hear better. It isn't about spots he doesn't like. It is about spots that EXPOSE THE BUSINESS i.e. stupid crap that kills the suspension of disbelief that it is combat and not two guys working together.
D. Carpenter yeah man, the undertaker being an undead wizard really took me out of it
#DirtSheet
People growing up in the 80's and 90's trash today's metal, Old school NBA fans trash today's NBA, old hip hop heads trash today's music. Same goes for today's wrestling. This all stems from people that like to think the older stuff is better, but things change, those that don't like it start to bash others that like it. I find that highly annoying. Yeah I like 2002 WWE, however things are different now and I like it. Same with music or sports.
I grew up in the 80's and 90's and music then was superior to today. However there is still good metal coming out so that's the one genera which you should not have chosen for your comment.
However, facts are simply this. Some things improve over time. Some things degrade over time. To just assume things are bad now because they aren't the same is just as wrong as to assume that things are better now because they are different. And some changes are definitely NOT for the better (Music I'm looking at you).
Paul Miller I chose that genre because as a fan of grindcore, Deathcore, anything that has mainly screaming, you will get people talking shit, go to any video and read the comments and there are people talking shit.
Meanwhile, much of today's Metal lacks heart, the NBA has had so many rule changes that farting will get you a technical foul, stupid little untrained backyarders and trashbaggers think they can do what they see on TV, and many of the wrestlers coming up today do not have the same attitude about the industry to even learn how to sell or proper ring psychology. Do you understand now?
I’m 20 years old and the silly shit disgusts me, I am so sick of bein ridiculed for being a wrestling fan, when the wrestlers don’t take it serious, no one else will.
it's not the evolution of wrestling but the devolution of the mark fans accepting the bullshit accepting the flips and accepting the lack of psychology
CHA BELO im sorry youve been left behind
Renegade Y nope ahead of the game unlike u since u failed psychology class yourself
The problem is that Cornette DOESN"T seem to accept that wrestling is subjective. He routinely takes a "my way or the highway" approach and that's what rubs a lot of people the wrong way about what he has to say about this stuff.
Additionally, he makes himself look extremely out of touch when he acts like all of these indie guys are nobodies when they're some of the most popular and in demand indie workers in the world and make as much money as a lot of the WWE guys and uses antiquated and obsolete terms like "outlaw promotion" At least 3 of the guys in that PWG match he criticized regularly appear on national television and 2 or 3 more have worked for WWE. They're not just indie guys getting "a few bookings". Jim has been an incredible talent who's forgotten more about wrestling than most people will ever know, but it's sad that he's let his''inability to be flexible consign him to a point where there's no longer a place where he can use those skills.
Tim Fak it's not saying a lot that they are making as much as some of the WWE guys
The point is, most, if not all, of them are doing considerably better than Cornette seems to realize.
MVP had a really good response on Instagram, more focused on the flip topic but about how wrestling changes over time like anything else.
A lot of these guys have good, measured, polite responses. Many of them even say positive things about Cornette who responds by ranting like an absolute lunatic and issuing over the top threats.
I agree completely. I respect Jim's opinion and insight on a lot of things, and I even get what he says when he talked about underdeveloped talents resorting to flippy moves without developing the basics. There's definite nuance in some of what he says, but the problem is that he throws a lot of that nuance out the window arbitrarily. He can be rather inconsistent, and sometimes rather obnoxiously. The way he insists on maintaining some sort of "reputation" for the wrestling business, and the way he insists that comedy wrestling and flippy wrestling aren't evolutions of the sport, it all just feels way outdated and out of touch, as much as he may have a few good points about them.
I think the key issue around this whole debate is really the question of whether kayfabe is dead, whether it should stay dead, or whether it should continue to cling on for dear life in today's wrestling scene. The way I see it, unironic kayfabe can still have its place in some storylines. But the days in which it was treated as a protected concept and universal standard of work ethic for wrestling is long gone, and in its place we have the more flexible concept of suspension of disbelief. Audiences don't just mark themselves out wholesale to the entirety of wrestling these days. They're able to actually think for themselves and choose where their own suspension of disbelief is being stetched too far or not, and that's just something Jim never gives enough wrestling fans, even casual fans, credit for. All this demonization of Kenny Omega's early work in DDT, or the Young Bucks' superkicks, or Joey Ryan's comedy wrestling. All of Jim's arguments about those would be moot points if he would just try and open himself up to suspension of disbelief over traditional kayfabe.
I'm guessing that Dave Meltzer didn't show up on Jim's show.
ua-cam.com/video/GOZZF5XlWQU/v-deo.html
So Dave Meltzer, a tabloid writer, bigtimed Jim Cornette? Lol fuck off
Is this the nexus of Dave defending shit?
oh boy....