10 Reasons Why Majora's Mask COULD Have Been A Dream
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- Was the land of Termina and the events of The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask real or not? This is a rather heated debate, and in fact, some insist there is no debate. But in this video Andy (Zeldom) will demonstrate why the Termina Dream Theory is PLAUSIBLE. If the theory could be proven solidly it would be can so the purpose of this video not a proof for the theory, but just to show why it exists and shut down some of the "evidence" commonly used to "debunk" these theories.
⭐The Tragedy of Time: A Legend of Zelda Narrative
• The Tragedy of Time: A...
⭐Article by Dathen Boccabella: LINK IN WONDERLAND: AN ANALYTICAL COMPARISON BETWEEN MAJORA’S MASK AND ALICE IN WONDERLAND
www.zeldadungeon.net/link-in-....
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⏱ Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:13 1 - Developer Comments
5:44 2 - Alice In Wonderland Parallels
8:10 3 - The Tragedy of Time Narrative
8:55 4 - The Hero's Bow
10:29 5 - The Lens of Truth & Song of Storms
11:33 6 - How to Leave Termina?
12:34 7 - The Mirror Shield & Gilded Sword
13:19 8 - The Tree Stump
14:21 9 - Dreaming A World
15:43 10 - Easter Eggs - Ігри
Something just occurred to me. In the movie Inception, they explain how in dreams, you just kind of go about your business in a place with no memory of how you got there. Dreams just "are", there is no beginning of the dream. In the opening of Majora's Mask, we find Link wandering the forest. We don't see him enter, he just exists and is already occupied with a task. Watching the intro again reminded me of how the dreams in Inception worked, kinda cool, eh?
Also, how does it feel to be smarter than 90% of the population, Andy? I love how you need to have a disclaimer in the title AND at the beginning of the video. People just can't handle arguing lol
Love the synopsis Kim!
And remember, I am apparently the smartest man of the 21st century 😂😂😂
With the involvement of the Lost Woods, basically anything is possible. Ocarina sets up the Lost Woods as a "teleporty" wonderland maze that leads anywhere and everywhere. Since Labrynna and Holodrum actually exist, Termina very well could be a Real parallel world instead of a dream, which also explains the characters sharing the same models as Ocarina. Although, any psychological lesson one could get from a "dream termina" interpretation still works for a physical Termina imo.
Technically it's not the lost woods. The lost woods are part of Hyrule and Link is said to have left Hyrule. The Hyrule Historia refers to it as a "mysterious forest", not the lost woods. You could argue it's the lost woods, but there's not actually any canon source specifying that's the case.
The guy is all ready Making some of the highest quality Zelda Conte t, you don't need to feed his ego, if we keep him humble he'll make the same quality content we enjoy.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx oh don’t worry, I diss him on other platforms ;)
So long as we can agree that Link isn't dead in MM. He can't die as a kid, because it breaks the timeline.
Agreed!
And if twilight princess link is a direct descendent-
It does feel like the land of Termina may be a dream. Although I do understand why people may not be so fond of this theory. Mostly because it can be a little disappointing.
I guess the idea of it being a dream or not , is up to preference since it almost seems like the story is more of an interpretive one. One thing is certain though. The amazing story that Majoras Mask has to offer isn't lost whether it is a dream or not.
Facts! Love this.
That is exactly my thing. If nintendo came out and confirmed its a dream, id be totally fine with it, it does work and does make sense. But i just love the land, the lore, and the story of Termina so much that for the time being I’m gonna keep telling myself it’s its own land simply cause i like that narrative.
How so? Link's Awakening actually leverages the fact it's a dream, the nature of reality is a major theme. Making Termina a dream just because it's allegorical for Link's grief just makes it a lazy rehash that couldn't even be bothered to explain itself.
If majoras mask is a dream it'd make sense for it to be so dark, link is a child who has been robbed of his innocence and has to deal with it having a child's mind. To me majoras mask is a corrupted imagination trying to create a fairytale, an adventure where good defeats evil and saves the day much like Alice in wonderland. Link saved hyrule but at what cost, he has been robbed of a childhood and his mind deals with the fallout of this in majoras mask, trying to be a child again but having a shattered view on reality.
Ps: I commented about the Alice in wonderland theory on the other video and it was awesome to see this random idea I had expanded upon.
I think I remember reading your previous comment! It was definitely a cool thing to read through. I only initially thought of the rabbit-hole scene, but I looked up other analysis on MM and learned of so many new crazy parallels.
I think I believe this theory, but to those who don't, remember: this is just a game. You can interpret the story however you want. No one is stopping you, and it doesn't matter how you interpret it. I think what I think, you think what you think.
I mean, yes and no. If nintendo says it is not a dream, then it simply is not and vice versa. Not too much room for interpretation
@@Revan-eb1wb Yeah but if people want to theorize despite what the creator says then...let them do it. It's really not hurting anyone.
@@sixxeyes2710 I never said it hurts anyone. But the thing is, if the creator would say this or that is canon, there is no point in theorizing anymore because we got the answer. That was simply my point
@@Revan-eb1wb I understand what you said and I think you took what I said in a different way. I said it’s “not hurting anyone” to say people can theorize anything in Zelda for any reason since it’s really not an issue. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, you seem to have misinterpreted it that way. My point is that even if what the creator says is canon people can still theorize whatever they want, no matter how illogical it may be and it’s not affecting anyone in the slightest (not hurting anyone… if that makes sense to you. If not, not much else I can say)
Personally, I think Termina was created by Majora from Skull Kid's or Link's memories. It is for this reason that one of the most important characters in the history of Termina is the Skull Kid (and his relationship with the four giants). This theory would also explain why all the citizens look like their Hyrule counterparts and why Link doesn't have one. There are also a lot of odd things in Termina that perhaps could be explained by this, like the Skull Kid paintings in the spider house. Everything in Termina involves the Skull Kid, and who could create a land like this out of nowhere? Majora.
So, is the land real? Yes. Has it always been there? Probably not.
I agree with some parts of your theory, but instead of a dream it could have been created by Majora, he has god like powers so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
I was never a huge fan of the "dream" theory for MM (and especially dislike the theory that Link is dead). However, you may have made a convert on one simple item. This is sort of parallel to what was said in the video. There are only 3 paintings in the entire history of Zelda (that I know of) that have that painting style on the stump, the stump, Skull Kids drawing in Termina Field, and the drawing on Link's house in OOT. Zelda is not afraid to show variations in art style, so it seems almost CERTAIN all 3 were drawn by the same person. This either means the house and the stump were drawn by Skull kid (which would just be odd) or they were all drawn by Link, which would make total sense if MM was just a dream/hallucination and Link was imagining these drawing but them coming out in his own personal art style.
Or he was carving down what he encountered it goes both ways as him drawing has no bearing on the evidence for terminia as real or a dream.
I have a majora's mask dream and then 2 youtubers I'm subbed to upload a Majoras mask video lol
Must've had a prophetic dream lol
You're still dreaming. Reality itself is a dream. lol
I never agreed with this theory but I like the video anyways.
My theory is that either the hole or the gates before Clock Tower is a portal that took Link to this parallel world Termina, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist it just means that the people in Hyrule aren't aware of it's existence.
Thank you for adressing the easter eggs! It is insane how many people take these as canon.
Amazing video as always. There is something I am curious about. As stated in the video, the hero of time was not remembered in the child timeline. This is considered fact by the majority of the zelda fanbase and I believed it fully as well. But recently, I have been searching for real evidence to suggest that this is true, and the only thing I could find was in hyrule historia. It doesn't seem like this idea is supported by the games at all. In TP, it is never stated that the hero's shade regretted being forgotten, rather he regrets not being able to pass on his skills, a regret he says he eased when teaching the hero of twilight the final skill. In MM, it never states or implies that links journey through time was kept a secret. It says the legent was held dearly by the Royal Family, but it never implies that only the Royal Family knows of links journey. If the Japanese text implies that link was forgotten then please let me know as I have not found any translations online. I just want to know if this is something that is backed up with real evidence or if it was just something stated in hyrule historia and people just went along with it.
Good point. I can't think of any in-gsme reference where it specifically says The Hero of Time was forgotten in the child timeline. All I know of is the HH and encyclopedia which state it, and to me it just makes sense so I go with it. But fair point, I can't find any "canon" source that deliberately states that
I dont think the darmani sculpture can be dismissed as easily as an easter egg though. There's just... no real reason to.
- We dont know which timeline BOTW is in yet, if its in the CT its easy to assume thats why it's there. Because MM happened
- In MM a goron mentions missing top quality sirloin from dodongo's cavern, so we know the MM gorons go to hyrule sometimes. Meaning there's also no issue with distance
Well looks like I’m playing Majora’s mask with this theory in mind.
But I personally like believing termina is real. No reason at all, I just like believing is real. But great video
Of course, that's perfectly fine too! Like I addressed in the video, I just wanted to make this to increase an understanding of my theory and undermine the things people use to "debunk" the theory 😅
@@Zeldom most of the evidence defending your theory was semantics arguments and the hero's bow was the strongest argument for termina being a dream, the rest was just interpretation that means nothing and is not solid evidence, so only 1 or 2 points have any real relevance and neither is a smoking gun.
The problem is both sides are using interpretation but when arguing semantics the most common definition is usually the one intended, so the paralel worl being an actual world is more likly then the idea of dream. Both sides are using a lot of interpretation but the dream theory is stretching more with definitions and using intercontexuality, Alice inspiring MM, but that proving MM as a dream world is also not absolute.
The constant undermining of people as closed minded has nothing to do with the argument and is a red harring used to make the argument seem better then it actually is.
Honestly, I think its better that questions like “is Termina real?” Don’t have a clear cut answer and the devs are intentionally leaving it ambiguous, its like timeline split in BOTW, it takes place in whatever timeline the player likes, or in a merged one, or in all of them as an inevitable outcome, which is my personal interpretation, it allows people to enjoy things how they want to, if there was a clear cut answer, people who don’t like particularly vibe with that would feel alienated. I personally think of Termina as a parallel universe featuring different versions of the people we know in Ocarina’s Hyrule, I don’t line the idea of it being a dream because in my opinion, it invalidates all the hard work Link and the player did because all the people you helped where erased when Link left, similar to Koholint Island, only the difference there is that Koholint disappearing is meant to be bittersweet, because yes the Windfish woke up from his nightmares and Marin got her wish of becoming a seagull, but everyone else is gone and Link is lost at sea. In the remake you even see Link visibly sad at Koholint disappearing and he has a whole crisis about not wanting to erase Koholint in the manga. Termina is not like that, you’re supposed to feel happy and accomplished that you helped everyone by the end, I like to think that Zora-Link played with the Indigogos at Anju and Kafei’s wedding, but if all of them were erased that sense of fulfillment is gone. But that is just my opinion, other people have their’s and there’s nothing wrong with that, I think its great that everyone can have their own experience and ideas they can take away from the same spectacular story.
truly terrible book number three in bug fables is an amazing story that has everything done right until the end when you find out it was all a dream and the main character is crushed under a falling boulder I think that just about sums up the impact of it being just a dream with no real stakes
links awakening did it well tho as there are real stakes and consequences to links actions
Personally i do belive termina was a real place, perhaps created with a mix of both Links and the Skull kid s memories, but a real place in the end.
Also if i recall correctly, it is implied that the tunic the Link from Twilight princess wears used to belong to the hero of time and that he is still remembered as a Legendary hero, this to me means that he could ve had more adventures that we didnt get to see in the games, earning himself a Legendary status once again. This could also mean that the bow un Twilight princess is Indeed the same from Majora s mask, but perhaps altered, modified or fixed after extended use by the hero of time, explaining why it looks slightly different.
I realized how the goddess sword breaks the timeline of Breath of the Wild. 😳
That is pretty big evidence that the DLC items are uncanon.
If BoTW's DLCs and amiibo items are canon, our entire reality collapses😂
I literally just wrote a story on this theory yesterday,, IT IS SOO TRIPPY that 14 hours later this was posted
From my interpretations, Termina is a real location. I’ve brought up my interpretations in other videos, and I recently played Majora’s Mask again. Honestly, haven’t seen anything to change those interpretations.
That being said, and this goes for every time I’ve brought up my theory with you, I can’t discredit your interpretation. Zelda is famously ambiguous in lore. There are the obvious religious based areas like the Buddhism-based Ancient Cistern and the Bible based Stone Tower. Those are harder to deny. But the rules of the world are intentionally left to our interpretation. And it’s up to us to figure out what fits and what doesn’t. My theory fits my interpretations of the series just like yours doesn’t.
And the fact that neither of us have truly found something to discredit our or each other’s interpretation is only proof that both can work.
It's sad that apparently i can't post the link to the article but if you wanna know what Majora's Mask is going for, then you should look more into the concepts of Pure Land Buddhism. Termina is essentially that; a Pure Land Is a plane of existence that appears when one is in need of it and is molded on the image of one's soul. Termina is based around time because it is meant for the hero of time. It is a place where you can reach enlightenment, grow as a person and conquer yourself. Majora's Mask is eminently an Oriental game in order to contrast with medieval Europe Hyrule, so the developers infused it with aspects of their own culture.
I did a quick google search and Pure Land Buddhism was descibed as trying to be reborn in a Pure Land after death. There are a lot of references to Buddhism in TLoZ, so that checks out. Also that would ironically fit with the theory of Link being dead in MM.
But I guess you were refering to a different spin on this practice, right?
@@cupkelpie4656 there are lots of interpretations of pure land buddhism even within the practitioners, so there is not even consensus about the reality of a pure land. it is as ambiguous as the game majora's mask. What is true is that a pure land is a space where a person can attain enlightenment, and this land will be based around that person deeds and needs. this is why termina is perfect for the hero of time, seeing as it is a land based around time.
it is basically the same discussion and influence as in the animated movie 'spirited away'. whether it is after death is still ambiguous. but Link attaining enlightenment connects with his role in Twilight Princess.
if you are interested check this essay about majora's mask influences and inspiration on the channel "Official Music Tracks"
@@jeexx520 Thank you!
Hi Andy! i just discovered your channel thanks to TBP, so you can totally blame him for me making a comment on an old video.
I like your idea of MM being a series of recurring dreams, like how Link constantly rewinds time with the ocarina to fix things.
Also, the masks. Dreaming that you're someone (or something) else is pretty common, so the masks might be an allegory for this.
Also, MM feels like every stress dream I've ever had: trying to accomplish something, failing, and the world literally ends in some bizarre fashion.
I'll toss in another theory of my own: Link DOES have a Termina counterpart. The Skull Kid. I feel like the 4 giants represent the Sages from OOT in a way.
Thx I'm glad to see you enjoy this idea. Ik it's pretty controversial, but I'm convinced it's the best explanation!
What if both theories coexist? Termina is a real place BUT the Termina we see is not the real thing.
You see, Link cannot go back to the forest, he more than likely goes on a journey to discover himself, and when he leaves hyrule to go to unknown lands, he's likely to encounter many different cultures and people.
That would explain why there is a new and rich culture in the game totally different from Hyrule's. And would also explain why among all the reused models there are some new faces, they're people he met in his journey.
If we take each cycle as a dream, it would make sense that it ends badly all the time, except when link actually defeats Majora, who represents all his negative feelings about life, about the future, about everything.
Then, after so many restless dreams, after meeting so many new people and realizing that life is not over but just starting, he becomes free of his chains and is able to ride off into the distance both in the dream and in reality, living his youth to the fullest, and eventually returning to hyrule to settle down on Lon Lon Ranch, work there as a farmer, marry Malon, and live a quiet and happy life without any male children, thus being unable to pass down his techniques and dying with that regret, which he would later fix by passing his knowledge to his distant descendant.
Maybe this has happened to you before: After going through a stressful situation or a traumatic event one has dreams about it. Like having nightmares about that horror movie you just saw, or nightmares about still going to school even if you already graduated or living again that car accident you were on some time ago.
Now, imagine you sacrifice your youth in order to save the world, you do so but you are sent back to "Relive" that lost time. Now noone knows about what you did, noone but you, not only that but slightly after accepting that you lost your childhood and stopped feeling like a kid in the body of an adult, now you are in the opposite situation, an adult in the body of a kid. And once again you have to sacrifice that childhood time, running away from the kingdom to keep it safe.
I don't think one's mental health would be great after that.
And I believe that this is the reason behind the 3 day cycle and having yo constantly go back in time to help people and save Termina.
Link is going through that time traveling trauma even in his dream.
Sorry if this is difficult to understand, I am almost about to pass out after a long day.
I was wondering was there any proof Ganondorf has a last name called Dragmire, as people keep quoting the manual never the game itself, yet in Super Mario Bros. 3 the manual says the Koopaling's are Bowser Children, when it turned out they never where?
So could the Ganondorf thing be wrong?
I have a similar question about the idea that link was forgotten in the child timeline. I have believed this until recently when I started having some doubts. From what I could find, the only evidence that supports the idea comes from hyrule historia. So I am searching for more information about this to see if this something that's backed up by real evidence or if this is just something people saw in hyrule historia and just went along with it.
@@andresbarquin he didint achieve anything in the child timeline and would have been a time traveler only known to the royal family and the shekiah because impa was there, they likly confiscated all the sacred relics or magical items link brought back with him as further proof of his time traveling. The story would have been unknown to all but those at the top so it was less him being forgotten and more no one ever knowing to begin with.
Ganondorf's last name is confirmed to be made up by Nintendo of America.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx yeah but that is all speculation. I'm not saying the hero of time was definitely remembered, I'm just looking for more concrete evidence to back up the idea that he was forgotten. Like something from the games or interviews. As far as I can tell, the only sources that say that the hero was forgotten is Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia, which are known to get a lot of stuff wrong, and there is nothing in MM and TP that states or implies that link was forgotten. And I have not found any interviews confirming this either. Perhaps the Japanese translations may hold some useful information, but I haven't found any useful ones online.
I was just talking about this topic with a friend recently, although we took it in a bit of a different direction.
What if it isn't Link's dream, but in fact, it's a bit more like Link's Awakening? As in, what if the dimension of Termina is primarily the psychic creation of Majora, an entity with perhaps some level of godlike powers, and Link is a visitor there whose psyche is also filling in the blanks with familiar characters to populate the world? We conceived of Termina here as a literally created physical world in a pocket-dimensional space that was made many years before the start of the game, where Majora would use Link's perceiving consciousness to give it further form and shape to it before destroying it all with the moon. We concluded that if this were the case, then rather than make the world vanish upon completing his quest, Link instead preserves it by saving it from destruction. Thus kind of making it an inverse of the theme from Link's Awakening.
I take this theory the same when I think of Ocarina of Time Link being destined to marry Malon from Lon Lon Ranch.
These are just fan theories not meant to be taken too seriously and just having fun looking at the games and finding connections to see how strong each theory is regardless of how the Developers intended their games to be portrayed as.
For me, I just consider Link to be the Harem King in each of his Zelda adventures.
One thing that supports your hypothesis of MM being a dream is the weird part where you have to give your masks to 4 kids on the moon... like what the..? How likely is that to be '' real ''?
I like how you raised better points than MatPat's Link Is Dead theory. Some of his supposed evidence to the theory is just bad, for back of a better term. You didn't take yourself too literally here and understood how if this was some kind of dream or purgatory, it's more figurative than literal, which is something people go about all wrong a lot of the time due to their physical and literal nature of reasoning.
IMO it's similar to Link's Awakening where it is Link's mind influencing the dream of a greater being.
In LA it was the Windfish, but here the giants are said to have created the four corners of Termina and stay dormant unless realm-changing levels of action are required.
The gaints inform Skull Kids backstory and actions so it would make sense for them to be real, plus the giants, Skull Kid and Link are all in the end-scene, making a good case for these six being real and capable of travelling between Termina and the other world.
This would explain why Link can leave once Skull Kids, the Giants and his own wills are all no longer in conflict. Him bringing the Mirror Shield and Gilded Sword back does also make sense if the world was not solely Link's creation, but in large part that of the mighty giants, it does not have to be explained away. Whenever Link visits one of the giants they also seem to be like in a different, dream-like realm of sorts.
The Skull Kid was poisoning and corrupting a world that was not only created by the giants, but literally their thoughts and feelings given shape. Unlike the WIndfish the giants did not want their world to vanish and since it was created by four of them it could be larger, more complex and thriving, but thats also why they had to keep themselves seperated and keep their actions to a minimum.
I'm going to respond bit by bit as i watch the video because I'll forget as it goes on:
1. "parallel world can also mean dream because the definition of world relevant to this context is: (separate reality) and a dream is a different reality experienced"- There are two things to say to this. Firstly, does a "dream" constitute a "reality" or is a "dream" exactly that and not a "reality"? Something has to be real to be a reality, right? So right off the bat I'm not sure you can fit "dream" into "parallel world" using that definition. I think that's why people do what you say they're doing in the video: responding with those dev/manual quotes to disprove it's a dream. Because they understand that a parallel world and a dream are two separate things, so saying "its a parallel world" would run counter to saying "it's a dream" because they're different things. Secondly, lets entertain that you're right, that it *can* be interpreted that way. The next step would be to determine whether or not it *is* , right? Well in the case of link's awakening, koholint is explicitly stated to be a dream in the game. Why would they make another dream world, but this time not make it explicit or at all evidenced?
2. "It's similar to alice in wonderland and in that it's all a dream"- Even entertaining that it took *direct* inspiration from it, that wouldnt mean it's a 1:1 copy. It could copy/paste the whole plotline and still diverge at that very last scene where its all a dream.
3. "It works better as a dream because it fits with the idea of him having traumatic dreams in MM"- MM is already about feelings, even without it being a dream. It is a parallel world where link has a very emotional journey. This point (#3) makes it seem like if it's *not* a dream, then your theory that link underwent emotional inwards searching goes out the window. No, it's a parallel world where that happened. Its a plot point, the whole "forgive your friend" giant quote, the cremia hug, the moon children quotes, etc.
4. "OOT link isnt known as a hero in the child timeline"- But he is, as stated in the intro to MM. It says legends echo in hyrule about OOT link and that those legends are held dearly by the royal family. Its a fact that legends of his deeds in the AT echo in hyrule in the CT, stated explicitly. So the bow is his bow from MM. In the SS clip you showed, link obtained "the bow", in MM he gets the "hero's bow", in TP he gets the "hero's bow". Names matter, they've gone out of their way to name the bows. In OOT it's the fairy's bow, in others it's the bow of light, etc.
4.5: "The hero's bow is in WW too"- The hero's bow can be wherever, that doesnt really matter. It being in another timeline is besides what we're talking about, which is that it is sequentially found in the CT, one game before the other. If following a single continuity an item appears twice, similar looking with the same name, its probably the same thing and that has nothing to do with the one in WW, that being a whole other continuity where a different origin for that item could be the case.
5. "The lens and song of storms"- These are not the same things from OOT is the thing. Like, we recognize the song of storms, but in universe its almost certainly an entirely different melody, maybe even with a different name. Some good counter evidence is that when you "remember" the song of time it's stated to be being "remembered", even mentioning the corners of your mind. So in universe thats the same song. If thats the case, why not do the same for the song of storms? Because it's not the same song, they just reused assets from OOT. Note that the one in termina has a different effect to the one in OOT, it lifts curses. There's even a new in game reason for the rain/thunder, flat's tears and anger. Same with the lens of truth, in universe it could look like a horseshoe for all we know, they reused assets
6. "If its a parallel world, how does he make it out?"- That's the only entrance we *see*. Not necessarily the only one at all. We know the skullkid is able to go to and from at will, seen multiple times. We see him in OOT, we see him get banished by the giants in the old lady's story, we see him come back pre-MM when he met tatl/tael, we see him in hyrule in TP. We also saw link get out on horseback. All of this implies that the fall isnt the only way, which isnt surprising given the teleportation properties the woods exhibit. There's a portal to goron city in there
7. "I counter the point that link has his gilded sword and mirror shield in the ending cutscene by saying that's also part of the dream, right before he wakes up"- There's nothing to say to this, it can't be proven or disproven.
8. "If skullkid drew the dream link had on the stump then thats weird so i say Link drew his dream on the stump"- There is another white chalk drawing in the game, seen done by skullkid. Also, was that flashback of tatl's memories with tael and skullkid also part of link's dream? What about the history/culture of termina? Like the old lady telling us the giants created termina or the mask festival asking the giants for a bountiful harvest? That seems unlikely to me. There are also many npcs link never met in OOT.
9. "I say link could have dreamed up all the small details of the world because the windfish was able to"- The windfish is a god
10. "All instances of the mask in other games are just easter eggs, i also think the darmani carving in BOTW is an easter egg"- There's nothing weird about a carving of darmani being in BOTW. A possible explanation is that BOTW is in the CT. As i said earlier, we know legends of link were already echoing in hyrule prior to MM. We also see he went on to become a knight with a good array of hidden skills. His bow was passed down in the goron race as a sacred treasure. If his exploits in MM were known it wouldn't be weird for the soul of the goron who helped their hero to be immortalized in stone. Also, maybe even more relevant than that counter, a goron in MM mentions serloin from dodongo's cavern, implying the MM gorons go to hyrule sometimes. Which seems possible given we see a traveling goron named link in MM and we see from link making it back to hyrule on horseback that traversal to and from is just possible.
Thanks for the long comment. This will help boost the vid in the algorithm 😂
@@Zeldom No problem, i just finished it now 🙂
While I don't personally think the Hero's Bow needs to be specifically the one from MM (I imagine it's likely one OoT Link used as an adult based on the design of the MM bow, given the difference in size,) or agree with your 5th point (saying that they just happen to look like and sound like their Hyrule counterparts but are actually different would actually suggest it all to be more of an illusion, though it could be argued that the song and Lens of Truth are the same because their particular design is what makes them work in universe, so the Song of Storm only achieves the desired effect because it's those particular notes being played in that specific order,) I do agree overall with your points and that it seems more likely that Termina is real than a dream.
@@homerman76 About the lens and song being different in universe:
I wasnt meaning to say it's an illusion, just that they reused assets, including the model for the lens and the notes of the song. The song in OOT just makes it rain, in MM it has curse breaking powers. I used this and that link doesn't "remember" the song of storms like he does the song of time as evidence that in universe they may be different songs with the same face
If i misunderstood what you meant just tell me, i took "illusion" to mean you thought i was implying they arenr actually in the game when i meant more like they are in the game, just not as we see them because of technical limitations
@18:00
I think you are wrong. Could Majora's Mask not be an item that the Yiga was using or found?
Something to consider.
yiga did not exist in that time
Ignoring the irl dev reasons, I'd say that many... Terminians? Being alternate versions of OoT era Hylians definitely at least rules out Termina being physically in the same reality as the other games. Whether it's a dream or just an alternate reality, I agree with the notion it's definitely not physically existing along with Hyrule
Here's one fact that I think could at least poke a slight whole in the dream theory: At the end of the game Skull Kid says he recognizes Link's scent as someone he's met before. Implying this the same skull kid we helped out in OoT. So we have at least 1 maybe 2 (the owl & HMS) who know about Hyrule besides Link.
I think there are 2 reasons why the Dream theory rubs people the wrong way. 1: It's too convenient to just hand wave all the strangeness as "just a dream". A moon with a face? Dream logic. Cremia & Romani being Malon's child & Adult form? Dream logic. and 2: They feel like it would invalidate entire the adventure. Ironic because part of the whole message of Link's Awakening was that just because it was a dream doesn't mean the adventure didn't happen. Though I ask a few questions that I don't think the traumatic dream theory could answer in full. Namely why the strange focus on different people? Why make Skull Kid his big bad nightmare? Why the main focus on the Happy Mask Salesman? A guy who was only a minor character in the story.
I have an odd theory: What if: Termina was in fact both a real place & a dream? An illusion dimension that wear memories like a Mask if you will.
If I could. I think we overlook the fact that in links awakening he recives the ocarina from a dream shine. A world that exsits in the MIND that can bring things to reality. Just a thought.
Not necessarily, because the entirety of Link's Awakening is a dream in itself, and when wakes at the end he doesn't seem to have any of his belongings from that game besides his memories, specifically of Marin.
The Skullkid in Twilight Princess is heavily implied to be the OOT/MM skullkid (it wears a new mask resembling the Majoras Mask Moon and knows Sarias Song which was taught to him by Link in OOT). So if MM Link only became friends with the Skullkid in a Dream why would the Skullkid help out the Twilight Princess Link find the Master sword and the temple of time? I guess its still possible that HoT Link only dreamed the Skullkid being antagonistic in Majoras Mask and he was always actually a helpful character but that doesnt explain why it suddenly has a mask that looks like the Majoras Mask Moon. The Twilight Princess skullkid even tells him that he reminds him of an old friend.
Today’s my birthday and I got Majora’s Mask 64 for my birthday today lol
Happy Birthday!
Congratulations, remember the dog bites.
I mean it would kinda have to be a dream, moon with a face 🌚, aliens 👽, surviving a huge fall ⛰, masks that can turn you into different species 😷, being turned into a deku scrub 🪵 (mind you this species is only bipedal in Majora’s Mask, though you do have dekus speak to you in OOT they are never bipedal).
There are various instances of bipedal Deku’s. The most common Deku Scrub clearly runs on two legs.
Also I’m pretty sure none of these concepts are too weird to actually happen outside of a dream in the Zelda universe.
@@reformedorthodoxmunmanquara but do they don’t have arms in oot
@@reformedorthodoxmunmanquara only one with arms is skull kid but he’s the exception
@@JettySpaghetti1 There are Deku’s with arms in OOT, the business scrubs to be specific. Also Skull Kid is not a Deku, at least not to my knowledge
I cannot go along with Majora's Mask being a dream, only because he doesn't wake up at the end, and why keep it a secret when they didn't do that with Link's Awakening. I'm fine with a debate if Termina is another dimension, due to the fact that majority of the characters are in Ocarina of Time, even though that was to save time developing the game.
Everybody has his or her depiction, mine either being in the world of Hyrule or another world. As of now, I say Hyrule only because we never see Link traversing through a portal at the end, like in a Link to the Past and Link Between Worlds.
Why keep it a mystery?
I still gave you a thumbs up.
Thanks, and your opinion is definitely valid. Personally I enjoy my theory for my own head-canon. This was just my attempt to help justify why I think it's possible. I'm glad you enjoyed the vid!
@@Zeldom Any time. :)
What if the trauma was so great that he could not tell if he was dreaming or not
@@jaiadams125 If you wish to believe that. I can't. What's the reason behind it?
I believe that majora’s mask was a collection of the dreams Link had, the Happy Mask Salesmen it prominent in Majora’s Mask because in the Ocarina of Time, the happy mask salesmen sent link on multiple quest to make people ‘happy’ with his masks. Referencing the Happy Mask Salesmen may be Link’s memory trying to associate happiness with those nightmares. As you know the Salesmen has an significant and insignificant role as he is the base of why Link stays on Termina. However, the Salesperson does not journey with him in Termina to face the many depressed and cursed entities Link had to face in order to retrieve what was lost…WHAT IF MAJORA’S MASK TOOK PLACE WHEN LINK FELL INTO THAT SEVEN YEAR DEEP SLUMBER they placed him under in Ocarina of Time…and him waking up from that was him waking up from Majora’s Mask?
I appreciate this video so much, just because it gives so much insight on the personalized side of Zelda. I enjoy how the developer's do not make solidified statements and leave it up to the player to make their own head canon. Personally though, I do not believe the dream theory makes the most sense for the reason that it would not add up story-wise for Link not to take the Ocarina of Time to a safe place far from Ganon's reach. The beginning of the journey was already rooted in the known physical world when he returned to Zelda after beating Ganon's final form, and I would assume he would've not just been trying to find Navi but also trying to hide the Ocarina. At the end of Majora's Mask, it also adds up when Link leaves the final scene, leading into the Hero's Shade and the demise of the Hero of Time when he returns to Hyrule. Really though, both theories are totally possible, it is just up to the player's imagination!
To explain Darmani he could have actually been the one that killed Volvagia long ago and Link saw some book or something depicting him and this memory ended up in his dream(s)
To add to the part about the lens of truth: the devs could have used the beta texture for the lens instead of the final texture from ocarina to make it different enough to not be sheikah in design. I thought there was more validity in termina as a dream world.
Yooo what is the clock town cover at the beginning?
One thing I must say. I feel like everyone over looks this.
The title of every Zelda has "the legend of Zelda" which means there all different tales being told of link. They all have similarities because there being told by generation to generation so the information gets lost and altered. I believe none of them correlate, their all tales (legends) of link and his journey
I'm honestly just watching these due to my sudden emergence of my old Legend of Zelda obsession. I've actually only played bits and pieces of them all, but have beaten BOTW (almost, nearly ready for Calamity Ganon) and Four Sword for the DS, which was fun, but I never got to do the extra stuff in it.
If this is a dream, how did the song of healing appears in twilight princess. Did link created this song after he woke up?
I have something intriguing to point out. In Breath of the Wild, just somewhere between Dueling Peaks, if you search hard enough for it, you'll come across some hollow logs and a drawing the Skull Kid had done centuries ago. If you proceed North through the hollow logs, you should come upon the ruins of Clock Town. So, here's my question: if Termina wasn't real, what's it doing in Breath of the Wild?
If there's two things that are dangerous to say about Majora's Mask, it's that Link is dead or dreaming.
Which is why it is obviously a dream about Link's death (metaphorically).
Seriously, though. I see it as being about the metaphorical death of the child Link was that Zelda tried to allow him to be again, not realizing that the loss of time was not the problem. It was all of the things he gad experienced that "killed" him.
I don't feel strongly one way or another, but I do like the idea that MM is a PTSD dream/series of dreams to process the traumatic events of OoT. Fun vid!
Thank you!
First half of OoT->Majora's Mask->second half of OoT. He learned the song of storms in a dream, Star Trek style. The fact that he time travels more at the end of OoT muddies up when MM happens in a cosmic sense
Who is link looking for in MM then?
@@harshal1153 idfk they never actually said and that's a tertiary problem. Maybe he was looking for Zelda or himself? Maybe it's messed up dream logic and there never was anyone to look for? We'll never know for sure. Inb4 "fairy noise in intro", I find that to be weak as evidence since I play the game on mute. Big mistake replying to me, tbh. I won't give you want you want.
@@harshal1153 it may be Navi
While I don't agree with this, at least it's better than the *sigh* Link is dead theory
That theory sucks said everyone ever.
Maybe you're just tired of hearing it or enduring some fanatic fans of it. The theory itself is incredibly sound, and was only debunked by the confirmation that Termina is completely real, which only came years later.
And has been disproven a billion times over in multiple ways.
@@jinmiguel6884 - lol, what multiple ways aside from Nintendo later saying "no, Termina is real"?
@@mokarokas-1727 I'm talking about the Link is dead theory thats been disproven by you tubers, Hyrule Historia, and Nintendo themselves. The one point that sticks to me is that OoT Link and TP Link are related by blood as ancestor and descendant. So Link couldn't have died. He also can't be a Stalfos either given what they are and how they differ from Hero Shade.
Termina is probably real, we know MM is more or less real because there is references to it's design in one of the games but Link doesn't know about MM's existence at this point (from what we know) we also know that the goddesses are there for balance and yet the lost woods seemingly contradicts that as it leads people both to what they desire and back to where they first entered, and to other worlds.
This eludes to an existence that contradicts the goddesses but there has never been a reference to it before.
We also know that adult link and the deity mask is identical besides the red lines on the face and based on MM's lore it was created due to MM's causing grief amongst the people so incompesed the hatred against evil.
The giants wouldn't be able to destroy their friend (majora) especially after they locked him up into a mask and we know they can create worlds (and probably created the people of clock town) so they created the goddesses in order to find a way to help major forget the hatred he has but this requires 3 things, the ability to control time, the ability of truth, and a being of light.
The deity mask would've been perfect for the being of light (or the foundation) so they just needed something that could control time and something to tell the truth as they wanted to save their friend not destroy, so they needed something to figure out the truth of his sorrows plus how to "make him happy" again and the goddesses created time while the shika's created the lens of truth through the goddesses .
So when kid link went into the lost woods he had everything required to save their friend, the only thing required was bringing him into the world and saving him, however the lost woods sends the person to what they desire and link at that time required a way to cope with the fact he might not be able to save everyone.
MM covers that aspect because it gives him the notion that when someone is gone they leave something behind, and this is a creation of the giants and was already there from the start, so it met everything that was required for both party's.
Termina was probably the lost woods in the first place as it's both near to hyrul, but also feels like a different dimension due to it's characteristics; this theory also helps to explain why the long lost hero seemingly appears here and there in time, and yet no one knows where he originated from, nor anything really about the weapons related to the hero besides a hero used them as they originates from Termina after link saves the place, but Termina itself still doesn't exist because link needed to save Hyrule before saving Termina then leaving for his "destiny" of saving multiple worlds and dimentions.
Personally, I hate "it was all a dream" stories, but I admit you make a good case for the possibility. Ultimately, the real explanation is Nintendo rushed out a sequel reusing assets, and didn't think that deeply about it. I wish there was a real answer, either way.
Yeah that's the real world answer, but that's not good enough for us lore gurus😂
@@Zeldom if I recall correctly monster maze had a video on what majoras mask is based on
Man I played Ocarina of Time as a 9 year old and today at 28 I eventually still have nightmares of re-deads screaming.
Also the Majora's mask last boss battle is like fighting the Devil given how it operates
New viewer, sorry I’m a touch late to this one, but I just had to jump in on it. I love all the research and digging into Majora’s Mask that so many people have done over the years and really wanted to share my own theory; in essence, I think you’re half right. I think that Termina both is and isn’t real at the same time. Essentially I think that it is a place that can be accessed via The Lost Woods, kind of like the movie Spirited Away and series as a kind of a last stop before the afterlife similar to the school in Angel Beats, or Stargate SG-1’s cosmic diner. This is going to take a little explaining, so... I guess that I have to figure out where to start.
Okay, so the idea is that everyone in Termina (with the exception of Link, Skull Kid, The Happy Mask Salesman, Tael, and Tatl) are all dead (though The Happy Mask Salesman is the only one aware of this and is why he hides out under the clock tower for the whole game). They all have some kind of unfinished business that they need to deal with before they can move on. The reason that all these spirits resemble people that Link knows is because he is projecting familiar faces and scenes onto them so his mind can make sense of the spirit world. Essentially, he is in a dream like you theorize, but all the interactions he is having are with “real” people. This also explains why there are two “Malon’s” because they are actually two separate spirits that closely resemble the different versions of Malon that Link remembers from both timelines. You could also read into the Moon Child’s question of what Link’s true face looks like as a hint at this.
Over the course of the game, Link helps many of the people of Termina come to terms with problems that resulted in their deaths in the real world. In addition, the world being three days to doom is also pushing these characters to face things that they otherwise would have avoided before their deaths. The main transformation masks are all self explanatory, but here are just a few other examples:
Romani died failing to protect her ranch from some group that she never identified, but had some foreknowledge of (possibly bandits) and are represented by the aliens. Cremia who never believed her sister before her death, then died herself soon after on the Milk Road from the same bandits. These are different entities in the game because each event is based on the perception of the associated sister.
Anju and Kafei passed away before their wedding day, perhaps Kafei had gotten cold feet and they weren’t able to reconcile before tragedy struck.
Pamela died trying to reach her father who had been tuned into a Gibdo, now their spirits are trapped, trying to reconnect and express their love for each other before they can move on.
The Old lady from the bomb shop died when she was robbed for her wares. She needs to be able to provide the supply for the store her son runs to make a living.
I could go on, but it would be a very long list to talk about all of them.
Each of the masks in the game is a testament to Link having helped some of the spirits move on. Even though it seems to re-set, Link still retains the masks and the memories within. At the end of the game, when he gives up the masks to the moon children, he is solidifying those memories into the people that he got them from. When Link does, the moon children get existential with him, asking questions similar to those posed by some of the troubles spirits. At the very end, the Happy Mask Salesman even comments about how he made so many people happy and that the masks he had were filled with happiness. By given them up to the moon children, Link is letting their spirits finally rest in peace. The whole end credits is basically all of the spirits saying their final goodbyes before moving on.
Okay, so now that I’ve gone over the world of Termina (or to callback to something similar to Matpat: Terminus (rather than Terminal), as in “a final point in space or time; an end or extremity”) that serves as their final stop before moving on, let’s address the elephant in the room. Majora and The Fierce Deity.
To start, the spirit of Majora cannot access most of its powers outside of the spirit realm of Termina. In the opening cinematic, we see that Skull Kid is fully able to remove the mask and still acts like the troubled prankster that he is. It’s only after arriving in Termina that he is a drastically different person; far more cruel and now able to use magic when before he acted silly and ran away. The legends of Majora’s mask say it was used in hexing rituals, however the power we see in the game far outstrips any tool that would be required of that purpose, unless the spirit within could only use a small fraction of its power.
So now, the big one. This comes from a source that is technically non-cannon, however I will explain why it should be considered. There is a short story on Majora and its relationship with the Fierce Deity that was attached to the very much non-cannon Majora’s Mask Manga. The writers were a bit vague on how much information about the story they had prior to writing this, but with the way some of it lines up to events in the game, I believe they knew a lot and I’ll link it together to make my case. (Spoilers ahead for that story if you want to go read it yourself with fresh eyes.)
In the story a monster lives in a land outside of time, yet still somehow accessible from the normal world (sound familiar?). One day a traveler arrives (very clearly The Fierce Deity). The monster expects that he is here to fight him as countless humans have before in an attempt to claim his armour that legends say will be “granted incredible power”. The monster challenges the traveler but he refuses, and even when offered a boon by the monster, the man claims to want nothing; he instead pities the monster for living endlessly alone and devouring all those who have come before it. Only when the Fierce Deity directly address it, does the monster actually gain some perception of time and realize the emptiness of its eternal existence. The monster realizes that he wants time to flow and to finally be allowed to rest. The Fierce Deity obliges and plays a song that causes time to start moving. The monster dances for three days and three nights while remembering all the battles it fought over the millennia (A direct reference to the three days in game play, but also to how Majora dances during part of his boss fight) before finally falling down and passing away. The legendary armour of the creature is all that remains and the Fierce Deity crafts it into Majora’s Mask to contain its power.
We know that this short story was written before Majora's Mask released. While the time mechanic and the general nature of Termina could have been gleaned from a Demo of the game, Majora's mask dancing in the final boss fight is something so random and specific that the chances of it being a co-incidence are basically nill. So we can safely say that the writers had been given some knowledge about who these characters really were from the creators themselves.
Despite they efforts of the Fierce Deity to help Majora move on, I think that the creature did have one regret. In the Fierce Deity, it finally found an equal, and after countless years of no one coming close to besting it, it wanted to test its might against the strange visitor. At the end of the game, Majora himself gave Link the Fierce Deity mask and says “Do you want to play with me? OK, let's play good guys against bad guys... I'll be the good guy, and you be the bad guy,” Majora never saw itself as a villain, but the traveler who it thought would help him move on, yet failed to completely do so, was. Majora is the last person who’s unfinished business you are helping to complete, thus allowing the spirit to finally move one. This is even confirmed by the Happy Mask Salesman at the end of the game when he says that “the evil has left the mask after all.”
So yeah, that’s the basis of the theory, there’s a bit more too it, but this post is already WAY too long.
P.S. This didn’t really fit in with anything above, but I wanted to point out that Tingle’s presence is something that’s never really addressed in any of the theories. It doesn’t really need to be in mine, because he can just be another unique spirit trying to move on. However in the “it’s all a dream theory” how do you explain that Link would be dreaming of someone who he’s never met but is pretty clearly tangentially related to the whole crazy reincarnation cycle kind of like Beddle and thus must be a real person.
Point 6. He just rides off. I would like to offer an explanation
To enter termina he fell down the whole in the tree. But you're forgetting he then went through the tunnels and climbed up into the clock tower. There was an incline that could have brought him back to the surface. In which case riding into the woods could be an exit.
Great video homie. Love the points you make. It is also worth noting that Link is ASLEEP in the first scene we see him in. That opening could be real, and The cut to Skull Kid could begin the dream itself. It is also worth noting that this would explain why the happy mask salesman seems to just vanish. His purpose of leading the hero through his journey was complete.
True. But Link tends to be asleep at the beginning of almost every game so that's why I didn't bring it up 😂. Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Yes sir. Great job as always. Have a blessed day
I highly disagree on the easter egg point.
Ignoring conflicting evidence because it makes things complicated or contradicts an assumed fact just makes the lore be only the story in the games.
Amibo's canonicity is questionable, as it involves actual real world interactions, but enviornmental details are part of the world and therefore very usable as evidence.
If they aren't, then any detail shown in cutscenes or the world should be sumply disregarded and ignored. All that can be theorized about is text and dialogue; because enviornmental detail don't matter, right? They aren't part of the story. Part of the canon. I shouldn't have to explain why this is bad. Just think:
You want to make a theory about a book thrown on the floor? Detail!
Theory about how a character looks simmilar to another? Reference!
Common enemy uses an attack identical to the final boss? Coincidence!
Stone Tablet LITERALLY saying twilight princess ocurrs after the Windwaker? Contradicts the timeline so it is an easter egg!
This isn't to attack or insult anyone who thinks easter eggs by defenition can't be canon. I'm just saying the logical implications of that are that basically all theories are wrong or based on fake evidence.
And I'm not even saying that all easter eggs must be taken as absolute fact!
That poster of a zelda game must mean that the zelda franchise exists in this universe. (other series game)
The toilet hand in SS is a different hand to the one from MM and OoA. Maybe it is a similar curse? Or perhaps a species?
Maybe memories fade or are altered or characters lie or information is lost. Maybe timetravel or separate universes are involved if the easter egg really screws stuff up. Or perhaps it is all a coincidence?
In other words, easter eggs should be evaluated just like other evidence and then used to speculate and craft theories. Everything can be explained and nothing is truly definitive.
Ps. Sorry for taking up however it long it took to read this. It ended up being very long.
Btw I still enjoyed the video and other Zeldom content.
Keep up the good work!
I don't hate the theory or anyone who believes it, I just don't like or believe it myself. I feel it being a parallel but real world would be more interesting, as things not being real would mean nothing that happens in Termina would matter. If the people you can save don't really exist, that makes saving them a waste of time because they don't exist. The only thing that might matter is escaping and maybe getting the ocarina back.
I wouldn't matter to others, but I would change Link's life. But yeah I understand your perspective too.
@@Zeldom he would probably forget his dream after a while and be unchanged if it was a dream. The boy seems to be illiterate so I doubt he would write it down to rember it so it would be unable to change him if it was a dream.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx This is a pretty good point, sure dreams and what we do in them can leave an impression on us, but the majority of any dream will eventually fade from our minds because of how the mind processes information (as dreams are really just a manifestation of the mind processing events that have happened,) whereas actual memories are likely to live on. Overall, I just feel like everything has more impact when it wasn't all just a dream (especially since that means the world we just saved is doomed to fade away, much like the world of Koholint in Link's Awakening, which was equally sad, and MM is already filled with sadness I don't need the ending to be sad too...)
I know it isn't canon (and someone may have already asked it), but how do you explain Skull Kid's & Young Link's appearance in Hyrule Warriors? Skull Kid is clearly the version from Majora's Mask, and Young Link uses the Fierce Deity's Mask, implying that he at least encountered Majora on the moon.
Fantastic theory! While I still think it is a parallel dimension, I agree that there are a lot of things that point to this being some kind of "out-of-body" experience for Link.
I have a love-hate relationship with this theory. I LOVE it because it find it so interesting that everything that happened is a psychological adventure in Link's mind and that there are a lot of symbolism and metaphors for his feelings and how it could lead to him overcoming the grief and emptiness after OoT, but i also hate the theory because I love the world in Majora's Mask and I am obsessed with the lore and the characters so I would be sad if they weren't real lol
Anyways, great video!!
Has Anyone heard of death of the author it basically means that the creator of a work gathers context but the consumer chooses the true meaning so basically it’s up to us to decide whether it’s a dream or not because it’s our interpretation. Side not here the Zelda team was inspired by Disney for things like links design maybe that’s why are there similarities to Alice.
My problem with this theory is that it can literally be said for anything. Anything can be a dream, our irl world can be a dream, ocarina can be a dream, literally anything can be a dream and it’s impossible to disprove. I also think that calling majora a dream robs it of it’s canonity and thus spoils the fun and distils the entire world down to “it was just a dream”. I think that thinking of majora as a dream makes majora a worse game.
See my issue with the idea that Termina isn't real is that it directly breaks with Majoras mask actual in game story which I take far more serious than any thematic or real world reasons that lead to the elements that makes it appear as just a dream.
Clearly the theft of Epona and the Ocarina must have been actually happening for the ending of the game to make any sense as the ending clearly shows a drawing of Link together with Horrorkid and the faries.
This leads to the issue that long before Link even arrives in Clock Town does your fairy companion already know that a Great Fairy exist in the city. And Horrorkids backstory that we are also given directly ties his first meeting the fairies into Termina as its were they meet and were we find the drawing they made in the past to celebrate there friendship. Additionally does Horrorkid at the very end also clearly recognize the Giants as his friends from the worlds backstory Anju's grant-mom can tell the player.
So Termina must have existed before Link comes in. More over do we also know that Horrorkid traveled between the worlds before as he knows about Saria
Furthermore would Termina not existing cause a rather clear problem in Twilight Princess as the Hero of Time teaches the Hero of Twilight the Song of Healing a Song he learns in Majoras Mask.
Also some of your arguments are kind of weak.
Like the lens of Truth and the Song of Storms for example. Sure technically did Link have them but "A link to the past Link" also didn't get to carry any of his weapons for wards into the Oracle games or Awakening, on the same note did the Hero of the Winds also lost all of his items (and his own ship) between wind wacker and Phantom Hourglass.
This is clearly a case of just reusing stuff from OoT because MM was on a short development time and so did Gameplay and time crunch outweigh Story relevance same as the other examples I listed.
As for the way link leaves? As I said the Faries and Horrokid somehow could do it before getting there hand on Majoras Mask,. I believe a Gorron even directly mentions Dodongos cave so the Gorans might actually even trade with Hyrule. Just because we don't see where the exist is in game doesn't mean that there isn't one.
Saying the end of game drawing is by link is really reaching especially given that the drawing style is identical to Horrorkids seen in Termina. And if you want to argue that it looks the same because its part of links imagination than does that not line up at all with how entiurely different the rest of Termina looks like.
More over as you said saying EVERYTHING is in the Dream is a really weak explanation and can theoretically be applied to every single Zelda game. The only game that is blatently about being in a Dream Links Awakening is very clear on it.
Also concerning another point you make about how Marjoras mask feels of. Hardly the realm of the Ocean King in Phantom Hour glass is about the same similar yet different as Majoras mask.
All in all do almost all arguments to support the Theory that Majoras Mask was just a dream appear ether flimsy at best or directly stand in contradiction with Majoras Mask own story.
I personally see Termina as either being a real place in the Zelda universe, or an alternate reality. Also I love this game, and I've only been playing MAYBE since the beginning of March. It's a fun game, but boy is it for me a pain in the butt sometimes. Needless to say, I really enjoy playing it, and finding out the lore, even if I suck at the initial game.
Strangely enough, I think it would be easier to claim something is a dream than to show something is not a dream. Or more specifically, it is harder to prove that something is distinctly not a dream than it is to disprove something is a dream, but that doesn't mean that it is a dream. Technically speaking, someone could make the claim that Ocarina of Time was a dream, despite the references in future games, by simply stating that it was a dream based on real events. So in this case, maybe MM was a dream based on real events, though I think that would be a lazy answer.
To me, it's hard to believe that MM is a dream because it was never really stated within the story that it was a dream. Link's Awakening made the dream the foundation of the entire story, but MM being a dream has to be pieced together by less-than-facts. There are plenty of pieces of fiction that try to utilize this mechanic at the meta level, for instance a writer or director saying something to the fact afterwards. Or even my personal favorite fan theory for an entirely different franchise, that Zion is still in the Matrix, but allows people to believe they escaped without ever actually escaping. But in terms of the lore as provided, there just isn't enough to say that MM is a dream or that Zion is another level of the Matrix. (Though I admit I still haven't watched Ressurections, even though I keep meaning to).
All that being said, this is why stuff like this is interesting. It provides different perspectives on story elements, and it allows people to continue talking about old favorites like MM without living within an echo chamber. Whether I agree or disagree with your findings, it is important to understand that it is still enjoyable to hear them. Otherwise, why watch your channel? lol
Termina on it's own is a real place but the moon being dropped on it wasn't the real moon it was made with Majora's magic.
Not to mention the pillar in the forest at the end of Majora's mask wasn't there in the starting cut scene,
But while you're theory is valid, I'm still convinced that termina is it's own country that's a part of the same land mass as Hyrule considering holodrum and labrina are across the ocean from Hyrule and what you would call a one way trip through a cave more than likely wasn't the only route between Hyrule and termina taking in how large the maps actually are and how would you know he went to the lost woods specifically that's not the only forest if you look at the map in it's entirety so termina could be in the unaccessible part of breath of the wilds map since breath of the wild shows off all of Hyrule.
And asking why almost everyone looked similar to the characters in ocarina of time has it's reasons the developers were reusing it's assets to make Majora's mask just like they're doing now with breath of the wild and it's sequel tears of the kingdom
I had a theory that this was Link's comatose dream. His emotions and mindset were so all over the place that everything seen is his mind trying to piece back together and Link trying to come to terms with his situation.
#11 - Aliens. Their appearance looks to be contrived from the imagination of a young boy. Malon getting abducted if you fail, is Link's doom and gloom mindset playing out. All he's ever known up to this point is that failure is not an option, else he will lose everyone\everything.
I've always felt it was either another dimension or him having died and going through the stages of grief, denial, acceptance of that fact.
I like this dream theory though!
Personally I don't agree with the GT stages of grief theory bc I believe the Hero's Shade is the Hero of Time and TP Link is a descendant of him. Therefore Link must have had offspring before dying. But everyone is entitled to their own headcanon :)
Bruh you need more views and subs. Keep up the work
On the other hand. If it was dream. It may had happy when the fairies spooked Epona and basically plumed knocked out Link.
nah Termina wasn't fake Link was just cracked out of his mind
I agree with your theory AND I'd like to add on to the Breath of the Wild bit. The game can't be used as evidence either way. Breath of the Wild is the combination of all timelines, where everything is legend. If anything, it only shows that the legend of Majoras Mask began. If Link shared his story of his adventure, whether dream or not, it could inspire the creation of the mask in Breath of the Wild which is clearly NOT the one from Majoras Mask.
Sadly the theory is canon wrong since skull kid appears in twilight Princess, and is no doubt the same one as he plays saria's song.
Man, people can get really triggered in the comments, is just a debate, can't you just be chill about someone else's opinion. Good video man, i personally would prefer if it was not a dream, but it can very well be one, i guess we'll never know for sure because devs like this ambiguous part of TLOZ series, but great video man. Haters gonna hate, you keep doing good content nevertheless
Idk. I agree with hyrule encyclopedias version. It makes sense as for what happens in the game. Also the same skull kid appears in twilight princess.
Explain how TP Link was able to get his hands on the Hero's Bow from the Gorons, Which is the same item from Majora's Mask, Gorons Kept it as an heirloom
Did you get to #4? That's it
@@Zeldom Seesh I'm blind, The title says COULD BE a dream, So you're not 100 percent certain, And I probably moved away soon as number 4 started, my bad
My theory is that Skull kid found the Majora's mask, in real life and with the mask he made Termina. Link must have dreamed that he was looking for Navi and therefore was linked to Skull kid's dream world. When he fell, he entered Skull kid's world completely. And at the end, Link made that drawing as a memory, which he symbolically engraved in his head so that he would never forget.
The same thing about the bow is the same for the tunic in in twilight princess because in the child time line link Isn’t known as a hero and so it can’t be his because the tunic is known as the hero’s tunic and the skyward sword link’s tunic looks the same as twilight princess link’s tunic
It douse int really prove anything but I just thought it was an interesting thought I had also I always heard people say it was ocarina of time link’s tunic but the more I thought about it the more i realized it wasn’t the same tunic
I was going to address that exact point there so kuddos to you for pointing that out. I cut it since it didn't really stay on topic tho and wouldve just drawn the point out unnecessarily long. But definitely a cool fact!
you the bread pirate and zeltic are my favorite UA-camrs
i mean, its obvious the creators probably never thought nearly as deep as we do, but its always fun to speculate!
What if everything happen in Majora’s Mask was not entrally a dream but somekind divine test/message form Hyrule goddesses
Well, while OoT Link wasn’t a hero to the land, he was to the Goron’s specifically, since he did the cave of dodongos as a child. 🤷♀️ just a counter point you didn’t address. He also seems to have left Termina as a child so it is conceivable he may have given the bow from Termina to Goron’s upon return.
Nice video, love Majora’s Mask theories!
I often wonder if Nintendo created Tingle to troll the majority of its fans? I mean think about it!!!
I like this idea. It is very possible it was a dream. I do a couple of opinions. You said Link drew on the stump in The forest. Remember though Skull Kid drew on a tree by the entrance to the swamp area with the fairy siblings. Opinion #2- If all the characters were just Link’s memories because they were basically clones. What about the characters who were different. The Mayor, his wife and son Kafie. The fairies Tatl and Tail and a few others. That is all. Just opinions
Not gonna lie this game scares me.
😂
lol it scares everybody. I first played it with my younger brother(he was 10, i was 15) on a 3ds, and, even though we never talked about it, I think we both had nightmares. Now it's my favorite game though.
Ocarina was scary too. Descending down in the spirit temple to face the statue was terrifying. The Zelda series can be surprisingly terrifying and the N64 games embody that. Kind of wonder if a full Zelda horror fantasy on the level of berserk will ever exist.
I'm a pretty misanthropic person, a dark person if you will, I've seen most the horrors in this world, from the war written place where I was raised to the shitty parts of the new country I live in, none of this is scary to me I love playing this game over and over again because it's comforting the darkness comforts me the stress of a time limit comforts me
I find this a much more well rounded theory then it just being Link's death. I could care less weather it was real or a dream it changes very little overall. Although it is depressing that those events never happened.
I don't really know any of this (I never played Majora's Mask) so I'm just gonna believe Zeldom
😂It's a great game, highly recommend
I remember accidentally getting Majora's Mask and thinking it was Ocarina of Time. I played it with my cousin at the time, who confirmed I'd gotten the wrong game, and he even said it seemed 'like Zelda on acid'.
It's a big assumption to assume, in a reality where there is a canon multiverse, that dream worlds can't also exist. To me, it's the nature of Link. He's the Hero of Time, he showed up where, and when, he needed to be to avert a disaster, and right some old wrongs. If anything it just means that timeline's Link was even more of a Hero than we assumed. Dude be savin worlds while asleep.
I love the idea of termina being real, but I love sound reasoning more. Death made sense, but a dream makes way more sense. Reality doesn't make sense in this circumstance.
For the lens of truth another possibility is the skull kid took it from him and hid it i n termina
I still really believe the reason all of this is called the Legends of Zelda is because all of these games are a series of dreams of Zelda's....I won't say when she would be having these dreams, but there is proof in the latest installment that proves it.
I don't mind if it's one or the other.
It's an amazing game, something very special.
Great vid ^^
Thank you :)
i allways thought of it as some strange mix of a "real" place and a dream. i think that majora's mask, and the lore surrounding it is real, but that the adventure is a dream.. it is a word with magic and time travel.. why could it not be that others could be in the same dream world.. skull kid, Link and the mask salesman are all in this dream world and bring different elements into it, aswell as it existing on it's own.. perhaps even just presenting differently visually depending on who stumbels into it in their dream.. or just that your physical state can not travel there, but your dreaming/subconscious mind can.. no reasoning in my thoughts.. just what i think.. :/
I never thought about that before
It dose make sense
What if I told you that Termina was real and it was Hyrule that was a dream?
Definitely NOT a dream. More like a NIGHTMARE!
I believe this theory tbh. But jeez people 0:20 calm down it’s just a theory nobody’s stopping you from believing your interpretation. Y’all acting like Zeldom just joined InfoWars or something
I wouldn’t be against Termina being a manifestation of Link’s trauma. Dreams can be a perfect story telling method if done right. It’s the reason I love The Binding of Isaac’s story, despite the fact that most of what’s shown in game is made up by some bald, naked, kid, I can still appreciate the story that’s being told.
I’d prefer Termina to be a real place because that COULD mean we can go back there one day
People who say that our brains can't come up with a complex world like Termina in a dream clearly don't know about DID lol
As someone that has been playing Zelda games since '86, I will say that MM is ABSOLUTELY a dream, and I've been saying that since its release in 2000. Early Zelda games (up until TP) followed specific patterns. For instance, games were paired, one having Ganon and the other having an alternate villain, with each game in a pair featuring the same Link. In addition to this, the second game in each pair prominently featured sleep and/or dreams in some regard. LoZ was followed by AoL, where Zelda was under the influence of a sleeping spell (making the story of AoL potentially a dream in the mind of a sleeping Zelda). Next, and most obvious, ALttP is paired with LA, Koholint being the most obvious example of dream worlds in Zelda games. That leads to OoT and MM, where OoT takes place in a 'real' world followed by MM in an alternate dream world, in accordance with the established pattern. I believe this to be entirely intentional by the developers. The only pair of early Zelda games that is difficult to fit the pattern in regards to sleep/dream cycle is OoA and OoS (though it does fit the 'Ganon/No Ganon' pattern), but because of the ambiguous nature of the story due to the linked game capabilities, it can certainly be speculated that one (or both) were dreams. Side note: The dev team for TP, a new team at the time, disregarded this pattern. This disregard for established Zelda series motifs, combined with it's god awful story, edge-lord designs, and attempted 'gritty realism' resulted in TP being the de facto worst game in the series, aside from the music, which is among the best. Source: me, a fan who has %100 completed every Zelda game within a month of release.
I believe you’re entitled to your own theories and points of view. I mean, we actually have people in the world (still) believing that Earth.
As for your video, you brought out some interesting points. The one about alternate worlds being not exactly being physically real was definitely my favorite point.
And I never got to think about how Link got out of Termina. I never thought about it. Fell to a bottomless pit to a new land, and now he’s just leaving as if he entered through to the main gate? Sounds weird to me.
Pretty solid review! Really love that video!
Glad you enjoyed!
Can't be a dream. Link was NEVER shown to wake up, and was literally shown to come back to lost woods and ride into the forest. You can't just cry "oh that was part of the dream" everytime evidence that debunks this theory comes in.