A long time ago, I heard it explained like this - deep down, kids need to believe that the grownups are in charge, because they know that they themselves, as children, are not capable of being in charge. If they feel that the grownups are not in charge, then a sense of insecurity and unhappiness is the result.
Glad she self corrects to say guys includes gals. Why not say gals that includes guys. Gals truly are further erased in our language. I am 60, all my life, in school, church, and now online. I it is he his and guys. I can understand more now how girls wish to transition. Girls are being/have been erased , only this thin and blonde count. Even Peterson said rubinesque is not beautiful.
But she does makes a strawman when she talks about libertariansm. Libertarianism is not a doctrine based on liberty, its a philosophical ethic logically derived. Also, children in libertarianism have the same rights as adults, but since they cant consent, then you cant push or try to make contracts with them, since they cant understand completely what's being proposed. This is why they cant consent to intercorse and other things. Families are guarded and conserved by litertarian doctrine. This idea that libertarianism is a no mans land regarding laws is dishonestly pushed in such conversations. Also, she is not disagreeing with peterson, they have the same position but are using different words to describe them.
I'm not sure she passes the critical thinking test. All of her examples were really about self-centred motivations. Whoever thinks that "teaching them how to think" and "teaching them what to think" is your choice has missed it - children need both. That is what "teaching ways" means.
@@jenniferwinston7842 Libertarianism is how humans access scarce resources without generating conflict. Thats all that is. Its impossible to make a act of charity without what is described in libertarian ethics and its propriety rights.
My wife is an early childhood administrator. Her worst students are the students who are “gentle parented” or given to many choices. If kids don’t have a million options in their lives, they don’t know the difference. As a parent: the first time they balk at a given scenario, nip it in the bud. They learn that crying about their situation serves no purpose and that the only way to relief is to go headstrong through the middle of adversity. That’s a core problem for most young people now days. They have no stoicism, they have no ability to embrace the suck. Teaching resilience, determination, and perseverance are some of the most valuable traits a child can be taught. If they give up at the first sign of difficulty, they will perpetually fold at the mountain of hardship. That’s no way to live. Everything good in life has to be and is worth fighting for, nothing is free, entitlement is an insidious parasite to the soul.
A teacher for 35+ years here…. She’s absolutely right!! I wish I was still in education and could advocate for the overhauling of our education action system!
I am a high school math teacher. Education is so far superior to what it was when the went to high school. It is worlds beyond what my parents experienced. Standards are significantly more rigorous and significantly more knowledge based than they ever have been- so your thoughts perplex me. If we have any endemic in education, it is one of parenting. Not of the direction of our educational systems.
You are the person that should be advocating. Tenured, active teachers don't care enough to fight for change.. or they have too much the lose. Most of the tenured teachers I've been around are complacent as hell and responsible for the system we're in today. Young teachers can't conjure up enough respect for anyone to listen. As a young teacher, every time I pointed out a problem I heard, "yeah, that's education for ya".
Discipline is freedom. If I want to think clearly, I have to have the discipline to read, to study, to debate, to ask cogent questions. If I don't have that discipline, I'll just lead with my emotions. It's the same with physical activity. If I want to have the freedom to run a marathon I have to have discipline to train my body daily and eat well. If I don't have the discipline, I'm going to be miserable attempting a marathon and probably fail at it, and certainly won't do more than one. This is what we see on the left. They have no discipline, they just engage their emotions and expect to be coddled all the time.
@@jonathanbonde8808you're talking about different things. Freedom to have choices vs the discipline to execute on those choices. If you enforce too much discipline on kids, they will never have the freedom to choose because they will want people to choose for them. In your example, no one is telling you to run a marathon; that is just something you want to do.
@@mistere5857 I wonder if a good way to differentiate this is obedience to authority (external discipline) and self-discipline (internal discipline). Kids need to learn to be obedient to something. In the beginning because their minds are too undeveloped, they need an external force imposing discipline on them to teach them what it looks and feels like. The primary job of the child is to learn how to obey, then when (and perhaps when not to) obey. I think part of raising someone from a child to an adolescent is beginning to give the adolescent more freedom. A well-disciplined child can become a self-disciplined adolescent easier because they have been taught what discipline often feels like: sacrifice, doing what you know you should do even if you do not want to do it, etc. In that regard, the adolescent can be trusted with freedom because they have learned that in order to be the free-est person possible you need to have the ability to choose from multiple desirable options. The only way to achieve that is through disciplining yourself in work, fitness, learning, etc.
There's a thing that they keep missing practice practice practice! If you don't have practice, your ideas come out IMPRACTICAL!! Dictating is not enough, you need hands-on experience in an environment where it's safe to make mistakes, where feedback is quick and where they can ask questions as they arise. We're built to learn, not to be audited!
@@markhamburger5587you do have to know about the box, but your don't need to know about that exact box, just boxes that are similar and can be functionally similar.
@@gillianmurphy2111 yes, analogy, extrapolation, i agree with what she said but at the same time it's almost too obvious and focuses only on one aspect, i think more math (well taught, not like most) for critical thinking and more reflection and deep thinking about different topics to learn how to expand your own pools of thought, something like that.. less throwing facts and answers to them and more making them figure it out or try to reach their own conclusions and then challenge them and so on
I love the way Jordan is open for real solutions and really listens deeply in an effort to understand. His questions are always so incisive. Thanks JBP - great guest too
Basically children are apprentices. Apprentices have to follow certain rules and deal with certain restrictions. They do have certain freedoms but only get more freedoms with knowledge.
Yes but school is not the place to do that. The home is the place and the parents the modellers of behaviour. She would not be the parent of my children, I am that.
Amazing the comments on against JP. He let her TALK and responded appropriately. This is dialogue that needs to come back! Stop the decisive comments! Bravo to both!
That would be the first time. My one complaint of Dr Peterson (and I'm a fan) is that he dominates conversation and usually and doesn't let his guests say much.
He has developed a reputation and deserves criticism. Most times he interupts constantly, the interview of Elon Musk was a cringey farse. Everyone’s ego needs put in check once in a while.. it’s obvious that everyone around him worships him and obvious why his ego got to where it has.. it’s up to us to help him.
@@jonathanrobinson6934 agree, and as I said I really appreciate JBP, but his constant filibusters are annoying. When a guest is on for ten minutes and Jordan dominates eight of them it's an ego play.
They are close together in their opinion after all. The thing is: he knew it and she didn't. And the reason for that is, that she didn't really understand the "HOW to think" argument that JP is making - or she didn't research it. That simple. "How to think for themselves" of course means: with the right facts. She confuses JPs opinion with liberal, naive parents, that let their children rule daily life. That is not what Peterson and others mean by that at all. Quite the opposite. He very much speaks about discipline and teaching children to deal with the word "no".
@@JoE_Songs I think she does understand it, but feels like misrepresenting it and taking what she feels is a more unbiased stance by saying everyone is wrong somehow makes her position stronger.
I can say that I was personally raised exactly like she’s saying, and as an adult I have no idea how to make choices, I act almost entirely out of obligation and it has led to a lot of resentment that I’m still dealing with.
It's maybe just me and how I'm reading your comment, but I'm unclear on whether you're in favour of KB's way of doing things or you're saying it led to resentment and not knowing how to make choices? Cheers, am genuinely curious.
@@juleslondon3088 Hmm it reads that way, and clearly, to me now too! I'll have to watch the video again and see if there was something in there that led to me being unsure...
@@juleslondon3088 Hi again. Ah, no I understand my own confusion again now: KB mentions two different ways of being raised - her school's way with strictly restricted choices for kids and being told what to think OR a way with more freedom to choose. It's not 100% clear whether OP is saying they were raised the way KB disagrees with or advocates for. (You're likely correct, but in this comments thread it could swing either way.) Cheers.
When I was younger in public school it was all facts. My brain doesn’t remember specifics so it’s all gone. What the private school taught me, was how to learn. How to be curious. How to find information and piece it together. That is also a rare skill I’m finding these days. So many people have trauma around learning they do their best to fake it or avoid all situations where they need to learn and grow
Public school gives you "facts" from a "certain point of view" and then forces you to parrot back why what they told you to think is correct. This woman seems to have had few genuine conversations with children - no surprise given her position. All children are not communists. All children in her school have been trained to parrot what they were told would result in not receiving negative feedback. She is a master's tool, and the master's tool will never dismantle the master's house.
I had a very rough time throughout my schooling, at every level. Years later I found out this was because I was actually learning, while most were memorizing. Today I often perform tasks that I was taught in school (sometimes I have to look up details but I know the rough process), while my former classmates complain that "we were never taught" this or that. But we were. They just forgot, while getting higher grades than me. A ton of schooling is useless because of this. If you don't get practice, it all becomes performative.
I don’t know what angle and probably should research her more, but as an educator you should dictate certain moral standards and expectations but should provide some choice. You provide the framework which is restrictive somewhat but also give them the ability to choose which allows for critical thinking and ultimately taking responsibility for their own choices. They should be exposed to mistakes early and often but with correction so that they are able to make better choices in the future based on past experience.
I don’t know what angle and probably should research her more, but as an educator you should dictate certain moral standards and expectations but should provide some choice. You provide the framework which is restrictive somewhat but also give them the ability to choose which allows for critical thinking and ultimately taking responsibility for their own choices. They should be exposed to mistakes early and often but with correction so that they are able to make better choices in the future based on past experience.
@@jikasan00I completely agree. I’m like “dang, I’m doing terrible” because I do allow some choice with my children. I’d say we’re pretty strict, but I let them eat pretty much what they want for lunch, while they have little to no choice for dinner. I do sometimes let them make grocery choices, especially if they’re going to help cook the dinner. They wear whatever they want, based on what I buy them. We talk and joke like friends at times, but they know that I’m an authority first and foremost and there will be consequences for their choices, both good and bad. I mean, like the woman in the video said, I have a life! If I dictate all that they wear and eat..where is my life? No, they can dress themselves, do their own hair, eat what they want at times if they prepare it themselves. That really grants freedom to both parties. They have to follow parameters though. They use what’s in the house, what I buy and allow in. (Ages 7 & 9) We homeschool using the Charlotte Mason philosophy. She advocated for teaching the children how to learn. Processes that helped them digest large amounts of quality information and really leaving most moralizing out of the process. I think that’s wise. But it doesn’t line up exactly with the views of the lady in this interview. She sounds a bit extreme, but all I know of her is this clip.
My husband and I raised all my children like this. I have two grown men children who are very hard-working, and well adjusted young men. My daughter, 15, is the same way.
Now imagine if all the nation raise their children like this. The world would have so much more conflict because everyone is an ideologue. (They are already doing this of course)
Taking all forms of choice away from children just produces adults incapable of being decisive. JBP is right in that the domain needs to be restricted, rather than choice entirely. In our household, me and my brother could each pick one food, a single food, that we refused to eat. The rest we had to no matter what. Such a restricted choice activates the brain into making careful and well thought out decisions and teaches them to willingly accept the consequences. Observing their choices is also a way of gauging their development.
Those are complementary ideas. Restrict choice absolutely until you have begun teaching them the domains in which knowledge is grouped. Then restrict choice within those domains to the degree in which they demonstrate sound judgement, especially after making mistakes and learning from them. Here is an example: My youngest (this is 20 years ago) was eating dinner and had done a pretty fair job of it but hadn’t finished everything. She said she was full. Then she asked for some dessert. I looked at her quizzically and said “I thought you were full!” She replied, “I am full of that.” Because I understood exactly what she was saying and because she had already demonstrated some good judgment in previous meals about what and how she ate, it was perfectly logical to have this conversation. And so she got a small dessert which, if memory serves, she did not finish. She was about five at the time. Had she been three or had a history of being needlessly picky and petulant about meals, there would not have even been a conversation.
@@ChielScape teaching/raising children (elementary age) is black and white. Children must be taught cause-and-effect; i.e., consequences for their actions; for example, how many kids will run out of the house on a blustery Fall day with no jacket, and grumble when their mothers make them come back and put a jacket on. Another example is if you allowed elementary age children to eat sweets for every meal, most would. My point is elementary school age children rarely look at consequences before jumping off the roof, so to speak. Children must be taught right from wrong.
I definitely don't completely agree with her on the choice matter. I think there are times when you offer them the opportunity to choose but do so as a test. And perhaps you test them several times in that area to see if they're capable of making good choices in the type of situation tested.
I'm not sure that she is implying a static set of freedom to choose through all ages of childhood and then suddenly at age 18, you are allowed full freedom to choose. In this short clip, she never clarified what age(s) she is referencing but I would assume that she is talking about very young children having little to no choice, and then the level of choice gradually increases as they get older and gain more knowledge. Since her point seems to be that one must have knowledge before one can properly exercise choice, it would follow that as knowledge increases, choice increases commensurately. Again just an assumption since she never clarified this one way or another during this short clip.
The one thing I lacked as a child was discipline. My parents (who, I should mention, happen to be two of the most wonderful, loving people I know) simply weren’t strict enough. My school wasn’t strict enough. My society wasn’t strict enough. Now, looking back, I feel that I completely wasted my adolescence playing video games and eating junk food when I should have been studying, learning and growing as a person.
It comes down to the fact that parents should not befriend their children but to lead them as a pack leader. This provides them security and safety. And this is what children really need.
I started applying some of her methods with my homeschooled kids and it’s incredible how much they’re enjoying learning and how proud they feel of their progress.
What a coward one must be, to never even dare, leaving school. Is that even a valuable voice? Certainly NOT politically. (Even though he speaks my mind politically, he has no right to!
Yes, and hopefully it will begin with a full description of her methods and how she applies them at the Michaela School-a state primary school in central London with a very mixed racial/ethnic and religious intake from families of low to modest incomes.
@@juleslondon3088Well that’s pretty clear, isn’t it? If all you do is feed children facts at face value, they won’t know how to vet information, look out for logical fallacies, and find solutions that aren’t plainly presented to them. Teaching a child how to think is teaching them how to seek out and vet information and what to do with it. I’ve tutored and taught for decades now, and I find that my students don’t retain “what” I teach them if they don’t have the ability to absorb and categorize it properly. So as a teacher I focus on the “how” skill first. That’s far more important. It makes them better students now and better adults later. If more people were taught how to think, misinformation wouldn’t have as much of a grip on the modern world and politics wouldn’t be as tribal.
@ I agree with the points you make but I don’t think that’s clear to many people at all. If it were then I don’t think we’d be having this discussion. 🙂 I appreciate that you’re being brief but there’s an whole lot more to teaching children (and adults) how to think for themselves aside from how to research. I’m pretty sure you know that but it’s more depth on this point that I’d like to hear from JP & co.
In Taiwan, China, and other Asian countries, her opinions and methods are the default. These students are absurdly bright and educated, yet many seem to have issues navigating life in aspects related to social interaction and relationships. Depression is common and I believe no matter how smart, you can't fully shake off the pressure marks of a high-stress childhood.
Exactly. Very few are capable of any growth or creative, individualistic thought because they taught to absorb and refrain from thought. This is especially true in japan. I find the majority I’ve met trained that way were repressed and messed up. They were incapable of growth into themselves. Many didn’t even understood what that meant. Her philosophy is dangerous and harmful when executed in reality.
No, it's because if they don't do well at "prescribed learning." The punishment from parents, school, society is truly unbearable. If they do, do well, then that standard is always expected of them. The pressure is immense. Then the kid grows up, ever scared, thinking they are an imposter. There is little wriggle room to deviate from the path. Yet "prescribed learning" is set up in a way for few to accomplish it. It's set up to whittle more out, as quickly as possible, than to keep them in. Especially in the UK. @@josephl9619
Depression is common here in USA where kids have that freedom as well. So which is it. I don’t think she’s as tyrannical or strict as some people are being led to believe. And there’s many factors to consider
She is amazing! We are doing a disservice to our children if we don’t teach them the basics. I’m 67 years old and my mother taught me that her job as my mother was to raise the children to be a good and kind persons and a productive member of society and if she did her job correctly then you might be friends with your adult children . That’s the way I raised my family and yes my children and I are on good terms and they are responsible citizens.
Two problems: 1. Children eventually become adults. So, if all you've ever done is spoonfed them, your kids/students become seriously disadvantaged. 2. Children vary wildly: in maturity, in intelligence, in application of knowledge, etc.. Treating them uniformly is lazy & to their detrirment. Different children need different levels of freedom & adherence, and the balance is always shifting. The greatest gift to a child is a mentor who understands what dose they need when.
💯💯💯 omg yes. And I saw JP acknowledge this. Present choices: wise choices. Example - asking kids what they’d like to eat: salad or steamed veggies? What dressing would you like? JPs outfit idea was good too. You’re giving children confidence to exercise decision making and independence in a safe and smart way, without compromising safety or well-being. I think JP is more balanced in this way. He recognizes the necessity of developing a foundation of knowledge for children while having confidence in them to encourage critical thinking abilities (how to think) but guiding them, and ensuring they also access natural consequences.
Agreed. It sounds like she bases her entire approach off of not wanting to think about things. I'm on board with the idea of not treating kids like adults (those who do so are taking their life experience for granted,) but some kids benefit from more responsibility while other's do not.
@@QuaseQuasimodo School is not everything. It is a few hours a day. To be efficient in a big group, the choices must be limited. Generally, to avoid chaos and wasting the time and resources. Most of the children nowadays are brought believing they are omnipotent decision-makers. They are not. None of us PERSONALLY decide on most of the world. You do not even decide on opening hours of shops and institutions nor about the legislation of your country. You can vote but you do not decide on details personally. In most cases in life you need to remember you are a part of society, a part of bigger group and you are not more/less important than others. Like soldiers. What is wrong with that? Children would be less frustrated young adults if the school system did not lie to/manipulate them. And finally, teachers should not be made a service staff to children. In many places of collapsing western world, they are. We can see the results. Egoism is a virtue. Being able to cooperate without permanent power play, being able to wait without frustration, being able to work hard and live happily without instant gratification is obviously almost non-existent. All these things are naturally taught in schools focused on teaching knowledge first with strong position of a teacher.
I think my main disagreement with her is over the phrase "what to think". Teaching explicit facts and building a robust foundation of knowledge is not teaching kids what to think. That being said, the lack of a robust foundation of knowledge is the problem, and her approach will remedy that-it will also teach them how to think by, as she said, helping them to know the topic extremely well. However, I think Jordan's approach of controlled choice-when choice is appropriate-is better. We're not always in a rush to get where we're going.
The Bible is clear: "Raise a child in the way he should go and he wont soon depart from it" Not "raise a child in the way he decides and thats like totally fine or whatever man"
Goodness, Katherine is so superb. Her clarity of thought and commitment is just wonderful. It is a damning indictment on the UK and its educational establishment that not all schools follow her educational approach, and indeed often combat it.
I see all the time moms ask their kids “do you want to put your shoes on?” Or “will you pick up your toys?” And this just does not work! “It’s time to put shoes on” and “it’s time to clean up” are direct Instructions but not “mean”. It’s not always about what you want in life. It’s sometimes about what you need to get done.
I disagree. If kids are always told what to do, they won't develop the ability to choose anything, they will become overly reliant. They need to be given restricted choices (all of the choices being acceptable) so they learn how to make good decisions. Otherwise they will become anxious adults like the millinnials, and have extremely poor self esteem because their parents always implied "you aren't smart enough to make a good decision so I'm going to make it for you."
I disagree with her. There needs to be a balance of knowledge and how to think. I actually grew up in a strict environment similar to what she is describing about her school. I was a good kid. I “excelled” because I was obedient and I listened well. I gained a lot of knowledge and you could argue that I was “excelling” but then I left home and school and suddenly I was living a life where there were no more expectations anymore. No one was telling me what I should do and I had no ability to think for myself independently. It was a humiliating time in my life and I still struggle with the fallout from that twenty years later. Yes you need to give kids what they need and restrict their choices but you also need to teach them how to be independent and make good choices for themselves or else they will be lost.
@@ohmaramusic i think its best time to do it as a child. The sooner the understanding of choice and consequence is established in a healthy way, the sooner the child can develop their own identity and consciousness and be free of any possible trauma inducing scenarios due to their lack of freedom. I was in the same sort of childhood where my parents made all my choices for me, and i was a good kid so i went along with the whole ride and they were good parents so things went well enough throughout childhood and i was very fortunate in the life they gave me. The problem came when i was released into the actual real world to function off of my own autonomy and decisions as an adult moving out of home. I felt so indecisive about everything because i never had to make my own decisions before, so i adopted the strategy of just going along with the flow of everything, and just doing whatever my friends around me were doing or just taking on whatever was coming my way without ever really having to make a choice. Living this way eventually had me ending up in an incredibly abusive relationship with a narcissistic sociopath that had total control of me, and at the time i just had no idea what was going on or how to handle the situation. Through therapy i realised my reactions and responses that led to interacting with these people and getting in this situation was just an outcome of what i had learned through the type of childhood i lived. I never learned what choice actually was and i have had to survive the trauma of r*pe in order to learn that i did have a choice, and my life is actually mine to live. I would have much rather learned something that simple from my parents as a child rather than through this horrific trauma 25 years into my life. I will make sure that my kids learn these things and what choice and individuality is in a safe and healthy way better than what i experienced.
It depends on the kid. You should be able to try independence whenever you are ready to try to. It’s different for everyone. I’m not sure when i was ready but it probably was when I was about 12 or so. When i started wondering about what kind of man I would become in the future.
Totally agree! I am from Lithuania. Growing as a child, there were rules in our home, what we could do and what we couldn't. In schools we were taught WHAT to think, so that now we are more free than all the western civilizations, where too much freedom led to chaos, as we see.
I live in the United States and I do not think it is chaotic at all. It’s just that the news only shows crazy things, not normal things, because that is what draws more viewers. But ya, I can’t think of the last time I actually saw something chaotic happen in real life here.
I am a neighbor to you (from Latvia) and I dissgree. Growing up as spoon-fed toddler is not the way. I have been there and now despite finishing with honors struggle to do basic tasks and everything is a huddle. I wait to be cared by parents and wait for instructions outside what to do. I don't take initiative and I am more as an information collection box. Balancing the right amount of freedom vs taking responsibility for choosing (and it's consequences) that depends on child's individual development should be the way. You can't mold everyone in the same way. I couldn't relate to kids as I grew up faster and prefered in my teens have conversations with adults. Forcing me fucked me up more. It felt like a tyranny and absence of freedom (choices).
This is awesome. The best advice I've learned recently and it applies to this conversation is: all kids make dumb decisions and it's my job as a parent to teach and prevent those decisions from happening.
the problem is that there is a crazy amount of “facts”. literally every second, new facts are “made”. so, even if a school system is based on teaching “facts”, the problem is usually to choose WHICH facts you wanna teach - and these facts will be chosen according to the ideology of the teacher or the school (because it’s impossible to teach all). I grew up learning the facts or “knowledge” and it’s been changed to learning how to think because the chosen facts were obviously way too biased.
But what if they never utilize 90% of the "knowldege" or what they "learned" when they are adults? Does that then limit other useful subjects or useful knowlwdge that they might be able to obtain later in life?
Not cramming. Children have a natural curiousity. If we present the information, they will suck it up. ̇Also, there should be a LOT more practical/hands-on learning. Our current system places so much on head/book knowledge, and kids come out not knowing how to do real stuff in the real world.
They both are not wrong. Jordan does not have the background in education. He has good ideas, he knows how to handle a childs limitations buts knows little about the capabilities children have and don't have on a large scale. He knows what the end product should look like: a secure self thinking person who is not swayed too much by peer pressure, but she knows how to get there.
@@ragnakleinen2109 Jordan does have a background in education as a professor in universities since 1993. He was instructing students in higher education for decades. Also he raised 2 children with his wife. Plus had a successful therapy practice. I'm sure the fact that he instructed young adults will make him seem like he doesn't have a background in children, but he was seeing those children after they grew up and attended university.
OMG This is gold. They are treating children like mini adults. I work with parents in my own business as a child behaviour specialist and I am really surprised on what parents think on how they should be treating children. They think it is old fashioned to be authoritative and traumatising to their children.
Why not a little bit of both? Genuinely curious about your opinion. My style is authoritative (which is different from authoritarian) with clear boundaries and growing responsibilities according to ones age. A authoritarian to me seems to be pushing away more children who behave differently than the norm.
Her method isn't old fashioned, it's the default in Taiwan and China. The kids are bright but have underdeveloped social skills, emotional intelligence, and creativity. The prefrontal cortex's function and development is literally is impeded by high stress. I strongly believe kids gotta get some slack. Most humans couldn't even read or write 200 years ago. We're not evolved to be put through the ringer in this manner.
you got it in one, mr garabaldi. All children used to be treated as mini adults but this wa considred unfair, so we developd childhood to extend to 18, and now we are suggesting even further elonation. This solves nothing. In fact, I think its acting a LOT more like a genetic Shelf event, that is, so many people will be destroyed by lack of good guidance that far less will be successful procreators.
Been a teacher for 21 years at every grade level. Kids, especially little kids, exist in a world where they have no power. They eat when and what they're told. They're told when to go to the bathroom, they're told where to be and who they must obey, all essentially blindly. What kids want is to be taken seriously. They aren't adults and shouldn't be treated like adults, but they want a sense that what they say and think matters. I use age appropriate language, but I never talk down to kids. I treat kids with respect. I say please and thank you to them. But I don't coddle them, I expect them to rise to the occasion and for the most par they do. I treat them like...people.
Her examples of teaching children what to think were highly nuanced historical events that can be interpreted in a hundred different ways... I'm still listening to the conversation, but already I am not sure she knows what she is talking about.
I think that's her point exactly. At school, the focus should be on teaching the facts about history, not different interpretations of it. Only once children have a good grasp of the facts should they consider interpretations.
I agree. A lot of the facts differs from perspective to perspective. That is why I do not like history as a subject, but I had a boy I was homeschooling and he asked really good questions and thanks to Google and social media we could find out some facts that were deliberately not part of the curriculum, because it did not fit the message they want to give kids. I think schools focus too much on memorizing facts that do not improve peoples lives now, instead of teaching them how to ask good questions and where and how you can find answers and how to discern if the knowledge you get is good or not.
May I offer some food for thought: Jean Lidloff wrote a wonderful book in 1984. It's called "The Continuum Concept. In search of Happiness Lost". It reminds us that the "concept" of childhood and education hasn't been around for most of the time people had children. The bottom line is : Whatever you "teach", children will always first and foremost do what the adults around them do. And that starts before words and thinking even come into the picture and lays the foundation of what they internalize as " normal" and " natural".
The continuum concept only applies to the first 4 - 6 years. And it is very effective but hard on the parents in the modern world, you have create boundaries sooner in the modern world. But crying kids to sleep as an example has huge risks
@@timothytrudgen8881I am not referring to a 1:1 transfer of concept. But here's the thing: If you talk peace and act violently you're child will act violently plus acting out the consequences of your contradictory behavior on the phsychy...which affects the relationship severely and reduces the ability to learn on a cognitive level...the standard hypocrisy of public figures, tile models and how this behavior is being rewarded in modern society doesn't make it easier for parents and teachers...
Yes, teaching children what to think is a prerequisite for them to be able to learn how to think later on. I don't think any reasonable educator disagrees that a student must first build a foundation of knowledge before they're able to formulate their own rational opinions. But what's happening in many grade schools today are teaches injecting their own brand of activism into the curriculum while passing it off as "fact." That's the crux of the issue here.
Is this in public school or in Catholic school? I went to Catholic school and they never told us what politics to believe in. They told us the difference between the two parties and had us decide who we would want to vote for. Dole vs Clinton. But my Catholic school did teach us values, acts of service, blessed are the poor and the meek for they shall inherit the Earth.
Exactly what I was thinking. She’s arguing against a straw man. There’s literally no one saying that we should ONLY teach kids how to think. They would never learn a single thing that way.
@@XavierGuillaumeI was at a public school and I had a history teacher who literally would spend a day out of the week 'teaching' his political affiliation. He was a Democrat. It does happen. I am also in a deep red state.
Katharine Birbalsingh 10:00 is describing how my parents were when I was a child growing up in the late sixties to the late 80"s! Those days or that mind set will return!
Thanks to Katherine for a wakeup call for a retired teacher. She has a proven approach - my experience and the examples of the successful teachers from whom I learned. I might add that Benjamin Bloom (1956) produced a which looks at the hierarchy of instruction effectively. In sequence of how a teacher manages them they are Knowledge, Comprehension, Application, Analysis, Synthesis and Evaluation. Progress through learning in such an organized fashion gives youngsters the broad and thorough foundation upon which successful thinking/education is based. Thanks to you, too, Dr. Peterson, for lending your caring and expertise to education.
America still has a lot of excellent teachers, it’s just that they are not recognized. The crazies are recognized if the Woke are running the public schools. It’s a travesty! Many public schools are not run by Woke people, though.
Okay find something interesting at 5:30. She says we need to give kids knowledge and teach them on each topic. She gave the example of salvery, colonialism, and American history I believe. The problem is my school did teach me all that, but the way and the stuff that they brought into, it was completely different! For example, when they taught us about colonialism they taught us that Christopher Columbus never came to America and Thanksgiving was made up holiday, and the first colonials were ravegers. There is so much bias in the education system about how each topic should be taught, and it’s un helpful that some teachers come with prejudices about what should be taught and how each topic should taught.
Literally stopped at that exact moment as well to say more or less what you just said. This woman is an idiot. She does not know “education” in and out. She DOES, on the other hand, understand indoctrination…and if she had her way we would be perfect little socialists.
You are correct but it is up to each of us to interpret information, question it and take into account the tendency for bias. If we don't - then we would all end up as naive fools ! Which is maybe what is currently happening !!
HOME SCHOOLING..... I have personally witnessed many families who have home schooled for a couple decades and the outcomes are amazing! EDUCATION....real genuine education!
Yes! I have 2 masters degrees but my homeschooled children are so much smarter than me. 😂 Seriously though, learning through living books and letting them dive deep has made them such great thinkers. I just memorized facts to pass a test and then forgot it all.
I agree with her thoughts to a degree, but also disagree with some parts too. Namely, I was a kid who was given that sort of upbringing. I ate and did what I was told for the first eighteen years of my life, making nearly no choices involving my own lifestyle. I got really good grades and even worked a part-time job just because i was told to. I didn't have a smart phone until I was 17. Then I graduated highschool, and EVERYTHING opened up, and my parents and teachers all said "okay, we aren't telling you what to do anymore, you're all grown up and can make your own decisions!" and it led me into a spiral of panic because I had NO CLUE what to do with myself, and I had never really held any agency for my own life up to that point. I obsessed over finding the "perfect answer" of how to live my life, and repetitively hit the wall. It took a long time for me to realize that the authority figures in my life hadn't always known what was the perfectly correct choice for me, and that there could BE more than one "correct" choice for me to take. So honestly, I wish that I had been taught during k-12 how to think more critically about my own personal values- not to an obsessive degree, which would lead to narcissism. Just to a moderate degree- because it would've led to a lot less floundering and depression in my college years. There has to be a balanced amount of freedom given- enough to establish a sense of personal responsibility, but not so much that the individual becomes self-absorbed to the point of delusion.
This is interesting because that is how my husband was raised and he is very much like that. My parents were more like the 2nd example Jordan gave about teaching your child to pick their own clothes but giving them small parameters to follow, and I didn't struggle like that as an adult. When we first got married, it was like being married to a teenager because he didn't know what to do or how to figure out what to do, whereas I adjusted extremely quickly and was soon running everything, and I had to slowly teach him how to make decisions. So yes, I totally agree with you, I think you should teach a bit of both, teach them how to "make good decisions" rather than the teach them "how to think" argument
The first thing children need to learn is HOW THEY LEARN and how to discern. Once a child can teach themselves, the world is their oyster. But teachers will not do that. They will then lose control over what the child knows. They believe they will become unnecessary. In a way, they are correct. But if a teacher or parent does their job right, they do become unnecessary. That is a sign of success. We also need to prioritize logical thinking and critical thinking above simple memorization. Simply memorizing a subject might mean that you can then spew the facts, but not that one can then reason and apply that knowledge logically. I would argue that the one who can think logically is better off than the one who can only spew facts. Another problem is how teachers are taught. Get rid of the “education” degree. Lastly, parents are a child’s best teacher. Parents should be the ones who know their child best. We need to value the role of parenting. We need to prioritize it over our own career. It needs to be valued as a “career” choice. Homeschooling your children is one of the most rewarding choices you can make. I know it was for me and my family. I need to add that the best way children learn to make good choices are by making choices as they grow. For instance; As a toddler you give them a choice between a couple of outfits. This grows until as a teenager they choose their entire wardrobe. As a toddler you give them a choice between a couple of vegetables. This grows until as a teenager they can plan and prepare an entire meal. This can be applied to everything. This is how one matures. By the time my children left home they could and did manage everything. They refused to live in a dorm at college because of the lunacy that life is. They worked their way through college without loans. We only paid the tuition. They paid all the rest. Books, supplies, and their living expenses. They did not drink or stay out all night partying. This is maturity. This is how you guide your child along the way. While compliance can be enforced, maturity cannot be forced. It can only be guided.
This is how I was raised and did the same with my children, as she describes regarding meal time. We always had supper together and none of my children were, or continue to be, picky eaters. They had to try everything and were only allowed to have a couple of foods, (from the total menu of all my meals) that they could abstain from.
I thought this sounded familiar. This is a clip from JBP's June podcast, titled "A Message From the Strictest Headmistress in the UK | Katharine Birbalsingh | EP 458". I'm not complaining at all, just noting the fact. I'm very grateful for the tremendous amount of video JBP has posted for free.
in my memory, the best teachers I ever had were the strict yet fair ones. They remain substantial in my life today, in terms of the lessons they brought to me. I remember them to this day. I will respect them on the day I die. There is something to be said about what this lady is saying, as it aligns quite well with the way those women taught me as a child.
Haven't thought about it like this. Katharine makes so much sense and it is in line with how children have been brought up for the most part of history, except in modern times.
Omg! The more I listen to her the more I applaud👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 her! She and her focus on changing education the more excited I am and would ask president trump to invite her to mar a lago for a sit down to hear her and trust that she is the change we need!!!
Oh God, I would have been so miserable as a child with this kind of parenting, or "guidance" ... even children need some autonomy and sense of responsibility that comes with that autonomy. My mom, for instance was given no freedom at all, and struggled quite a bit in adolescence and early adulthood ...she gave me quite a bit of freedom, but with explanations and guidance about the right choice, and i wanted to do what was best for myself and others...and that autonomy gave me a tremendous sense of responsibility and sense of sacrifice that came from inside ~ intrinsic motivation to choose wisely and be good. Make of that what you will... yet i can't agree with removing all freedom from children.
13:31.. it's how I was brought up. You ate everything on your plate, or you sat there, until you ate everything on your plate. Critical thinking comes out of limited choices. For example, I had a small dog that would help me to finish what was sometimes on my plate. Painter's pants with lots of pockets. When the dog wouldn't have anything to do with what was on my plate. I'll be 60 in a few months, but I grew up in the best time of our founding in 1776
BRAVO! I've seen this lady before but this is the first time hearing her speaking. I couldn't agree more. How strange that what everybody knew and took for granted when I was growing up (GenX here) is now considered revolutionary or whatever. It's common sense. 9:01 "We have to ask them, "What would you like to eat?" Put the spinach and broccoli in front of them and tell them to eat it." THANK YOU! This drives me nuts! Kids don't know anything. She kept stressing that, because it's true. You cannot know how to think of something when you don't know that thing about which you are supposed to be thinking! To the choice thing, as JP said, even as adults, when we are confronted with shelves & shelves of shampoo (or whatever example he used) we feel overwhelmed. We don't know where to start. It's much easier to make a choice when there are only a few options. Now think of children, especially younger ones who are just learning to interact in words/sentences. Again, they don't have FACTS about so much in their world. They feel that same confusion and overwhelm about EVERYTHING. Putting it upon them to constantly decide everything is too much for them. No wonder they have meltdowns!
@@anotherlover6954. Common sense indicates the example extends to meat, too, as is does to all other foods. Katharine chose broccoli and spinach as her examples.
This is how public education used to be in America, and how parents used to raise their kids. Many parents still raise their children in America the way they used to be raised.
It is not merely a matter of imparting knowledge; rather, it is essential to equip individuals with the tools and the intrinsic motivation to explore diverse perspectives and seek further understanding. Only then can they avoid becoming confined within intellectual echo chambers.
1:13 I think I can say that in general I feel that people should not say “you are all wrong”. There is a closedness of mind in it which is opposed to growth. I too have certain philosophies which I prefer, like existentialism over materialism (if these are opposed at all) - but on which grounds would I argue that anyone has it “wrong”? I think this is always a value with respect to a certain base one choses. Respect and science and growth and being truly human means being open for other peoples’ values.
A lot of this can be resolved by teaching your kids how to be emotional mature as they develop. Yes, restrict them, but giving them opportunities to express their opinionated freedom.
She seems cool and makes a good point of filling their heads with relevant knowledge. But the idea of 'exercising the choice muscle' which JP explained in his example of getting a child to choose between 3 outfits instead of 40 is important. It's like the first steps towards independence. If you're too strict they'll likely rebel in more destructive ways right? But yes, you cant be asking them what they want to eat for every food item etc.
Look, Katherine is speaking about elementary age children, not Jr. high or high school age. Did you get to choose what you wore in kindergarten, or 5th grade? I was constrained with my parents economics, so I might want to wear a leather jacket as a fifth grader, but that wasn’t happening. I wore what my parents could afford to buy me. And I definitely wore a coat and hat and gloves to school when it was cold. You would be surprised at the kids who showed up with no coat on cold days.
No, I was not raised this way. Just look at the facts: America used to be much more dominant in homes and schools. I didn’t have a choice about what to eat, what to wear, or what to do, except for when my aunt took me shopping and I could pick out my favorite clothes. But overall, it was what my teachers said and what my parents said-that’s what it was. There wasn’t a lot of back-and-forth. I believe this provided structure, discipline, and clear expectations. Kids today are often given too many choices, and I think it creates confusion and makes them question authority too much. When we just tell them what it is, it sets them on the right path without the distractions of trying to figure everything out on their own. Y’all are creating some privileged, entitled, spoiled kids. Yall honestly don’t see it today? Kids in Beverly Hills as opposed to kids in Baldwin Hills have more structured because we grew up in an environment I’m speaking of. The kids that are causing destruction in the world today did not have structure. They were not taught of what to think. We need to teach children about God as well while we’re on the subject of kids.
I believe both are valuable - teaching children what to think while also teaching them how to think. For example, this is what we know now; however, it is valuable to practice flexibility in what we know to be true now because as we evolve, our way of understanding life evolves. 😊
Being a classical education enthusiast, working in education and have had (some) experience in academia, this is a point that I've harped on for a long time now, especially with friends of mine who are teachers. All skills are based in foundational knowledge. You cannot teach someone "how" to think without teaching them what it is that they are meant to think about first. This is a point unpopular with both the post-moderns and the classical liberals, however, as you have to choose "what" to teach, which is based on a prior value judgement. In other words, there is no value-free education.
Yeah I know, but there are a bunch of things to pick apart. Kids in inner-city schools, might not have had enough words read to them since childhood. Or had early-life enculturation, if they're coming from different cultures. They might need more regimentation, more informational input, and systematic enculturation as though they were being re-integrated from early childhood. These same considerations might also involve a certain psychological type, regardless of cultural background. So, Libertarians tend to advocate for school choice, not a one-size-fits-all solution. If you sufficiently control for these factors, and possibly also work to mitigate the limitations of those with the above-posited psychological type from an early age, THEN I suspect you would consistently see the purported benefits of Montessori-type, early education. That's probably not what Birbalsingh's working with. Look at her results. She's clearly not wrong, even though the alternative in many contexts, has also been proven right.
I have been a public school teacher for 30 years. I also have 3 grownup children. I agree with this headmistress’s views about raising and teaching children. It is how I raised my children and is also how I ran my fifth grade classroom.
Absolutely adore this video. I’ve been saying this for a long time. Children can’t deal with things that are too powerful for them. Freedom is too powerful and so they will misuse it. Creating a mental vacuum in their minds allows for anyone else to fill that in. Allowing our children so much freedom was a collective effort in neglect. This is why we are seeing what we are seeing. Children were mentally neglected and now they are too soft and weak to handle freedom as adults properly.
8:58 Katharine] "These children who are the center of the world [or who are treated as such] we need to ask them what they think about everything, we have to ask them 'what would you like to eat...'" What you end up with is what we have, a couple of generations of children and young adults who expect to always get exactly and only what they want and tend to act like little tyrants as a result.
When I went to school, I was taught all the "knowledge" she speaks of here. The details, the key battles.. etc. We didn't receive ideological teaching. We were extremely restricted in what we could and did learn, and many of us had no choices in how we were raised - which created a vast amount of mental health issues. (Travelling was what expanded my mind and showed me that more existed.) We missed out on learning skills in school. Most I know around my age have never settled anywhere in the workforce. Some have never joined it. Why does the focus have to be either what OR how? Why can't it be both? Truth is, I find extremely restricted teaching (and parenting) to be lazy, bordering on inhumane. It's where we've come from, and all it produced was good industrial workers. I can say similar for totally individualistic and free-range teaching! But that only seems to produce people who are unable and unwilling to work. Why can't the skill of wise choice be taught, and the individual's range of choice be gradually expanded when they prove they can choose wisely? - I already have some answer to this: lack of healthy adult input.
She's absolutely right. I'm a retired high school math teacher (30 years). I love Doctor Peterson, I do. She "schooled" him! He's smart enough to actually listen and learn. Much love to these leaders, please lead us!
The desire to impose restrictions on children often stems from our own limitations-both in knowledge, resources and in the time we can devote as 'busy' adults. While it’s true that children need boundaries for their own safety and development, it’s equally important that these boundaries don’t feel stifling, especially in an era where they often possess knowledge and skills that surpass ours in certain areas. The key lies in striking a balance: restrictions are necessary, but they should also allow for opportunities for growth, recognizing that not all children are the same. A "contour-based" approach to learning seems ideal-working within established limits while encouraging children to push beyond them when appropriate. By the time a child reaches the age of 7 or 8, their cognitive potential can be astonishing, often sharper and more adaptable than our own. Such minds shouldn’t be constrained by our limitations. Instead, they should be nurtured through guidance and mentorship, empowering them to explore, innovate, and thrive within a framework of thoughtful support.
wich is?... give children less options and be more assertive with them... thats directly in line with jordans teaching, is it not? yet she kept insisting he is totally 100% wrong to the point it was annoying.@wjdeoliveira3809
You cannot “think outside the box” if there’s no box. If you don’t understand or recognize the “boundaries” to begin with how can you push the boundaries?
She strikes me as something of a self-publicist, who's stumbled across a formula that works very well with a subset of children. (Her school has a self- selecting cohort)
I really like this lady. I wrestle a bit with the family dinner piece she talks about around 9:47. I actually agree in general that families ought to eat together and I agree that choices should be limited. Personally, I offer one choice but also a backup choice because my daughter has digestive issues and some things don’t sit well with her and I have the same issue so I empathize with that. That being said, I also had an eating disorder for years that my parents had no idea about and we never ate dinner together by High School. If we had and if a rule like that were enforced, perhaps they would’ve noticed things sooner. I think the bigger issue is families not having time for each other and always being in “go” mode than the actual food being served, but perhaps I do need to challenge my own reservations and make this happen so my own kids don’t grow up struggling with it. Thankfully, they’re still quite little and I have time to course correct now.
It definitely depends family to family, but it doesn't sound like you're doing anything very different, you're tailoring the choice for your daughters needs, without excluding her from the main meal. I think the problem that develops that Katherine is avoiding, is that the children become the tyrants themselves, saying, "I want the banana, but you cut it up so now I don't want it" or "I dont like ___" even though they ate them last time... They're exercising control that they do not know, understand or can control themselves, like many of their other emotions. This could become a problem for you aswell, but as long as you're careful and teach them to not use their digestive issue as an excuse for anything. And then they only choose option 2 because they can't eat the first, rather then just because it seems nicer Again, it sounds like you're already doing the same thing, but just employing empathy when necessary to tailor it to your families unique needs
Children do not understand what is natural, nor do they comprehend their own nature and the nature from which we originated today. This lack of understanding is profoundly concerning. Research reveals a staggering decline in the physical activity of children across generations. For instance, children of my grandfather's generation typically moved about 30 kilometres a day, a significant testament to their active lifestyles. In contrast, my generation halved that distance, and now we find that today’s children barely move an average of 300 to 600 meters daily. This alarming trend signifies more than just a decrease in physical movement; it highlights a disconnection from the primal, instinctual existence that defines our nature. The children of today are becoming increasingly estranged from the physical world and from the environment that shaped humanity. To understand what it means to be truly natural, to reconnect with our intrinsic nature and that of our ancestors, we must reflect on the ramifications of this sedentary lifestyle. If we fail to bridge this gap, our children will continue to drift further away from the essence of what it means to be alive. Ultimately, children do not understand what is natural, nor do they comprehend their own nature and the nature from which we originated today.
I disagree about children being communists. Much like modern ideological communists in today’s modern world, it might sound like a nice idea, but when it comes down to practicing the principles of communism it’s a different story. Kids have a sense of earning things, they tend to think of themselves first and what they want, it’s only as they mature do they consider how everyone else feels or what is in their best interest.
For everyone in this comments section question what it means to teach children “how” to think: If all you do is feed children facts at face value, they won’t know how to vet information, look out for logical fallacies, and find solutions that aren’t plainly presented to them. Teaching a child how to think is teaching them how to seek out and vet information and what to do with it. I’ve tutored and taught for decades now, and I find that my students don’t retain “what” I teach them if they don’t have the ability to absorb and categorize it properly. So as a teacher I focus on the “how” skill first. That’s far more important. It makes them better students now and better adults later. If more people were taught how to think, misinformation wouldn’t have as much of a grip on the modern world. If more people knew how to learn they would be hungrier for it, and politics wouldn’t be as tribal.
A long time ago, I heard it explained like this - deep down, kids need to believe that the grownups are in charge, because they know that they themselves, as children, are not capable of being in charge. If they feel that the grownups are not in charge, then a sense of insecurity and unhappiness is the result.
A child will respect an adult that disciplines more than an adult that does not.
That is absolutely true.
@@madhatter1662disciplines as in teaches = listens and demonstrates, leads. Not punish. Some still see discipline as punishment only
Glad she self corrects to say guys includes gals. Why not say gals that includes guys. Gals truly are further erased in our language. I am 60, all my life, in school, church, and now online. I it is he his and guys. I can understand more now how girls wish to transition. Girls are being/have been erased , only this thin and blonde count. Even Peterson said rubinesque is not beautiful.
We can learn a lot about raising children from Cesar The Dog Whisperer 😉
What a great example of respectful discourse between two brilliant minds.
Couldn’t agree more. Respectful, thoughtful and balanced discourse
I dont think she really said much
This is why discourse is so important. She brought a different angle to the conversation and we are all better for it.
But she does makes a strawman when she talks about libertariansm. Libertarianism is not a doctrine based on liberty, its a philosophical ethic logically derived. Also, children in libertarianism have the same rights as adults, but since they cant consent, then you cant push or try to make contracts with them, since they cant understand completely what's being proposed. This is why they cant consent to intercorse and other things. Families are guarded and conserved by litertarian doctrine.
This idea that libertarianism is a no mans land regarding laws is dishonestly pushed in such conversations. Also, she is not disagreeing with peterson, they have the same position but are using different words to describe them.
I'm not sure she passes the critical thinking test. All of her examples were really about self-centred motivations. Whoever thinks that "teaching them how to think" and "teaching them what to think" is your choice has missed it - children need both. That is what "teaching ways" means.
....but her point is absolutely illogical and filled with subjective bias. She never learned objective reasoning.
@@categoricamente1753 libertarianism is akin to gnosticism. I humbly disagree with your assertion.
@@jenniferwinston7842 Libertarianism is how humans access scarce resources without generating conflict. Thats all that is. Its impossible to make a act of charity without what is described in libertarian ethics and its propriety rights.
My wife is an early childhood administrator. Her worst students are the students who are “gentle parented” or given to many choices. If kids don’t have a million options in their lives, they don’t know the difference. As a parent: the first time they balk at a given scenario, nip it in the bud. They learn that crying about their situation serves no purpose and that the only way to relief is to go headstrong through the middle of adversity. That’s a core problem for most young people now days. They have no stoicism, they have no ability to embrace the suck. Teaching resilience, determination, and perseverance are some of the most valuable traits a child can be taught. If they give up at the first sign of difficulty, they will perpetually fold at the mountain of hardship. That’s no way to live. Everything good in life has to be and is worth fighting for, nothing is free, entitlement is an insidious parasite to the soul.
This was an amazing comment. Discipline isn’t being dished out accordingly.
10000000 million percent agree!
Here! Here!
Well said!!!!
My compliments!
A teacher for 35+ years here…. She’s absolutely right!! I wish I was still in education and could advocate for the overhauling of our education action system!
Teacher of 32 years. Completely agree with your agreement. What's stopping you getting back into education?
I am a high school math teacher. Education is so far superior to what it was when the went to high school. It is worlds beyond what my parents experienced. Standards are significantly more rigorous and significantly more knowledge based than they ever have been- so your thoughts perplex me. If we have any endemic in education, it is one of parenting. Not of the direction of our educational systems.
You are the person that should be advocating. Tenured, active teachers don't care enough to fight for change.. or they have too much the lose. Most of the tenured teachers I've been around are complacent as hell and responsible for the system we're in today. Young teachers can't conjure up enough respect for anyone to listen. As a young teacher, every time I pointed out a problem I heard, "yeah, that's education for ya".
You could run for office. Biden clearly should have retired but he didn't. 😂
What did she really say/add?
Discipline Vs Freedom; is a delicate balance across all spheres of life.
Discipline is freedom. If I want to think clearly, I have to have the discipline to read, to study, to debate, to ask cogent questions. If I don't have that discipline, I'll just lead with my emotions. It's the same with physical activity. If I want to have the freedom to run a marathon I have to have discipline to train my body daily and eat well. If I don't have the discipline, I'm going to be miserable attempting a marathon and probably fail at it, and certainly won't do more than one. This is what we see on the left. They have no discipline, they just engage their emotions and expect to be coddled all the time.
@@jonathanbonde8808you're talking about different things. Freedom to have choices vs the discipline to execute on those choices. If you enforce too much discipline on kids, they will never have the freedom to choose because they will want people to choose for them. In your example, no one is telling you to run a marathon; that is just something you want to do.
@@mistere5857 I wonder if a good way to differentiate this is obedience to authority (external discipline) and self-discipline (internal discipline). Kids need to learn to be obedient to something. In the beginning because their minds are too undeveloped, they need an external force imposing discipline on them to teach them what it looks and feels like. The primary job of the child is to learn how to obey, then when (and perhaps when not to) obey. I think part of raising someone from a child to an adolescent is beginning to give the adolescent more freedom. A well-disciplined child can become a self-disciplined adolescent easier because they have been taught what discipline often feels like: sacrifice, doing what you know you should do even if you do not want to do it, etc.
In that regard, the adolescent can be trusted with freedom because they have learned that in order to be the free-est person possible you need to have the ability to choose from multiple desirable options. The only way to achieve that is through disciplining yourself in work, fitness, learning, etc.
Discipline begets freedom
@mistere5857 i think you misunderstand discipline.
It makes me feel emotional to see people who disagree and discuss their points of view, thank you!
The only way to think creatively, to think outside of the box is to know the topic really well… she said something along those lines. Very insightful!
Or, in other words: To be able to think outside the box, you first have to have some idea about the box itself.
There's a thing that they keep missing
practice practice practice! If you don't have practice, your ideas come out IMPRACTICAL!!
Dictating is not enough, you need hands-on experience in an environment where it's safe to make mistakes, where feedback is quick and where they can ask questions as they arise.
We're built to learn, not to be audited!
@@markhamburger5587you do have to know about the box, but your don't need to know about that exact box, just boxes that are similar and can be functionally similar.
@@gillianmurphy2111 yes, analogy, extrapolation, i agree with what she said but at the same time it's almost too obvious and focuses only on one aspect, i think more math (well taught, not like most) for critical thinking and more reflection and deep thinking about different topics to learn how to expand your own pools of thought, something like that.. less throwing facts and answers to them and more making them figure it out or try to reach their own conclusions and then challenge them and so on
The only way to "think outside the box" is to first know what IS IN THE BOX. Same idea, and it is correct. I speak from 30 years as a teacher.
I love the way Jordan is open for real solutions and really listens deeply in an effort to understand. His questions are always so incisive. Thanks JBP - great guest too
Basically children are apprentices. Apprentices have to follow certain rules and deal with certain restrictions. They do have certain freedoms but only get more freedoms with knowledge.
@@N-I-M85 love this comment! Yes 👍 Apprenticeship is another word for childhood.
Yes but school is not the place to do that. The home is the place and the parents the modellers of behaviour. She would not be the parent of my children, I am that.
The current style of parenting, which seems to be fashionable for many, is having a very questionable effect on the young, imo.
@@tlawhon I agree entirely. But that is because the family is being undermined in favour of having parents at work, not bringing up their chidlren.
Probably the best way to learn, besides failure, is to mimic the master(s) first. Learn what has worked. And then they can branch from there.
This lady is absolutely brilliant. She clearly has genuine love for children. Thank you Dr P and Mrs B for this conversation
Nothing about telling your children what to eat seems particularly brilliant
You beat me to it! My very simple response was going to be, 'This lady is awesome.' I like yours better.
@@mmudigonda ?
Sorry, accidentally cut and pasted from elsewhere 😆. Please ignore
Put your drink down - 🤨🤨 - only a few minutes in and she is bonkers - Coming from a mom of 4 that homeschooled for a decade 🤨🙄🙄🤷🏼♀️
Amazing the comments on against JP. He let her TALK and responded appropriately. This is dialogue that needs to come back! Stop the decisive comments! Bravo to both!
That would be the first time. My one complaint of Dr Peterson (and I'm a fan) is that he dominates conversation and usually and doesn't let his guests say much.
He has developed a reputation and deserves criticism. Most times he interupts constantly, the interview of Elon Musk was a cringey farse. Everyone’s ego needs put in check once in a while.. it’s obvious that everyone around him worships him and obvious why his ego got to where it has.. it’s up to us to help him.
@@jonathanrobinson6934 agree, and as I said I really appreciate JBP, but his constant filibusters are annoying. When a guest is on for ten minutes and Jordan dominates eight of them it's an ego play.
@@craigwillms61so so true
Maybe you meant divisive. Decisive doesn't make sense in your sentence.
As a primary school teacher, I love this lady's way of thinking
It should perhaps be a rite of passage for parents to do a parenting course before having children.
Depends who's teaching the parenting course.
They are close together in their opinion after all. The thing is: he knew it and she didn't. And the reason for that is, that she didn't really understand the "HOW to think" argument that JP is making - or she didn't research it. That simple. "How to think for themselves" of course means: with the right facts.
She confuses JPs opinion with liberal, naive parents, that let their children rule daily life. That is not what Peterson and others mean by that at all. Quite the opposite. He very much speaks about discipline and teaching children to deal with the word "no".
@@JoE_Songs I think she does understand it, but feels like misrepresenting it and taking what she feels is a more unbiased stance by saying everyone is wrong somehow makes her position stronger.
What did she really say/add? I couldn't fathom her goal other than some vague notion of boundary teaching, which is kinda obvious.
"drowning in complexity"
That perfectly encapsulates our western society.
I can say that I was personally raised exactly like she’s saying, and as an adult I have no idea how to make choices, I act almost entirely out of obligation and it has led to a lot of resentment that I’m still dealing with.
It's maybe just me and how I'm reading your comment, but I'm unclear on whether you're in favour of KB's way of doing things or you're saying it led to resentment and not knowing how to make choices? Cheers, am genuinely curious.
@@RaefonBit reads to me as clearly not in favour.
@@juleslondon3088 Hmm it reads that way, and clearly, to me now too! I'll have to watch the video again and see if there was something in there that led to me being unsure...
@@juleslondon3088 Hi again. Ah, no I understand my own confusion again now: KB mentions two different ways of being raised - her school's way with strictly restricted choices for kids and being told what to think OR a way with more freedom to choose. It's not 100% clear whether OP is saying they were raised the way KB disagrees with or advocates for. (You're likely correct, but in this comments thread it could swing either way.) Cheers.
@@RaefonB Ah, I see. Fair point. 🙂
When I was younger in public school it was all facts. My brain doesn’t remember specifics so it’s all gone. What the private school taught me, was how to learn. How to be curious. How to find information and piece it together. That is also a rare skill I’m finding these days. So many people have trauma around learning they do their best to fake it or avoid all situations where they need to learn and grow
Public school gives you "facts" from a "certain point of view" and then forces you to parrot back why what they told you to think is correct. This woman seems to have had few genuine conversations with children - no surprise given her position. All children are not communists. All children in her school have been trained to parrot what they were told would result in not receiving negative feedback. She is a master's tool, and the master's tool will never dismantle the master's house.
I had a very rough time throughout my schooling, at every level. Years later I found out this was because I was actually learning, while most were memorizing.
Today I often perform tasks that I was taught in school (sometimes I have to look up details but I know the rough process), while my former classmates complain that "we were never taught" this or that. But we were. They just forgot, while getting higher grades than me.
A ton of schooling is useless because of this. If you don't get practice, it all becomes performative.
I don’t know what angle and probably should research her more, but as an educator you should dictate certain moral standards and expectations but should provide some choice. You provide the framework which is restrictive somewhat but also give them the ability to choose which allows for critical thinking and ultimately taking responsibility for their own choices. They should be exposed to mistakes early and often but with correction so that they are able to make better choices in the future based on past experience.
I don’t know what angle and probably should research her more, but as an educator you should dictate certain moral standards and expectations but should provide some choice. You provide the framework which is restrictive somewhat but also give them the ability to choose which allows for critical thinking and ultimately taking responsibility for their own choices. They should be exposed to mistakes early and often but with correction so that they are able to make better choices in the future based on past experience.
@@jikasan00I completely agree. I’m like “dang, I’m doing terrible” because I do allow some choice with my children. I’d say we’re pretty strict, but I let them eat pretty much what they want for lunch, while they have little to no choice for dinner. I do sometimes let them make grocery choices, especially if they’re going to help cook the dinner. They wear whatever they want, based on what I buy them. We talk and joke like friends at times, but they know that I’m an authority first and foremost and there will be consequences for their choices, both good and bad. I mean, like the woman in the video said, I have a life! If I dictate all that they wear and eat..where is my life? No, they can dress themselves, do their own hair, eat what they want at times if they prepare it themselves. That really grants freedom to both parties. They have to follow parameters though. They use what’s in the house, what I buy and allow in. (Ages 7 & 9)
We homeschool using the Charlotte Mason philosophy. She advocated for teaching the children how to learn. Processes that helped them digest large amounts of quality information and really leaving most moralizing out of the process. I think that’s wise. But it doesn’t line up exactly with the views of the lady in this interview. She sounds a bit extreme, but all I know of her is this clip.
My husband and I raised all my children like this. I have two grown men children who are very hard-working, and well adjusted young men. My daughter, 15, is the same way.
Same for my two girls. Both are happily married to good men and the grandkids are turning out great.
Brilliant episode
The whole time, I thought I was listening to my dad. 😂
@@MalachiFrazee222 Old fashioned values works.
Now imagine if all the nation raise their children like this. The world would have so much more conflict because everyone is an ideologue. (They are already doing this of course)
Taking all forms of choice away from children just produces adults incapable of being decisive. JBP is right in that the domain needs to be restricted, rather than choice entirely.
In our household, me and my brother could each pick one food, a single food, that we refused to eat. The rest we had to no matter what. Such a restricted choice activates the brain into making careful and well thought out decisions and teaches them to willingly accept the consequences.
Observing their choices is also a way of gauging their development.
Those are complementary ideas. Restrict choice absolutely until you have begun teaching them the domains in which knowledge is grouped. Then restrict choice within those domains to the degree in which they demonstrate sound judgement, especially after making mistakes and learning from them.
Here is an example:
My youngest (this is 20 years ago) was eating dinner and had done a pretty fair job of it but hadn’t finished everything. She said she was full. Then she asked for some dessert. I looked at her quizzically and said “I thought you were full!” She replied, “I am full of that.” Because I understood exactly what she was saying and because she had already demonstrated some good judgment in previous meals about what and how she ate, it was perfectly logical to have this conversation. And so she got a small dessert which, if memory serves, she did not finish.
She was about five at the time. Had she been three or had a history of being needlessly picky and petulant about meals, there would not have even been a conversation.
@@debblouin So we basically agree then, great. My problem is with Katharine making it a black and white, absolutely no gray issue.
@@ChielScape teaching/raising children (elementary age) is black and white. Children must be taught cause-and-effect; i.e., consequences for their actions; for example, how many kids will run out of the house on a blustery Fall day with no jacket, and grumble when their mothers make them come back and put a jacket on. Another example is if you allowed elementary age children to eat sweets for every meal, most would. My point is elementary school age children rarely look at consequences before jumping off the roof, so to speak. Children must be taught right from wrong.
I definitely don't completely agree with her on the choice matter. I think there are times when you offer them the opportunity to choose but do so as a test. And perhaps you test them several times in that area to see if they're capable of making good choices in the type of situation tested.
I'm not sure that she is implying a static set of freedom to choose through all ages of childhood and then suddenly at age 18, you are allowed full freedom to choose. In this short clip, she never clarified what age(s) she is referencing but I would assume that she is talking about very young children having little to no choice, and then the level of choice gradually increases as they get older and gain more knowledge. Since her point seems to be that one must have knowledge before one can properly exercise choice, it would follow that as knowledge increases, choice increases commensurately. Again just an assumption since she never clarified this one way or another during this short clip.
The one thing I lacked as a child was discipline. My parents (who, I should mention, happen to be two of the most wonderful, loving people I know) simply weren’t strict enough. My school wasn’t strict enough. My society wasn’t strict enough. Now, looking back, I feel that I completely wasted my adolescence playing video games and eating junk food when I should have been studying, learning and growing as a person.
It comes down to the fact that parents should not befriend their children but to lead them as a pack leader. This provides them security and safety. And this is what children really need.
I started applying some of her methods with my homeschooled kids and it’s incredible how much they’re enjoying learning and how proud they feel of their progress.
Would that children stay out from under flying cows.
@@lamarschlabach3933 kids should be taught that crows like being friends with decent people.
@@erickcassibo8172 Actually, my 6 year old loves crows!
@@lamarschlabach3933 Not sure I understand your comment…
Such as?
Since I now work in a school, I understand her frustrations even more.
She's way more approved in life than Jordan Peterson the one who never dared to leave school, is.
What a coward one must be, to never even dare, leaving school. Is that even a valuable voice? Certainly NOT politically. (Even though he speaks my mind politically, he has no right to!
@@johmarie7Logically and concise? She was all over the place when explaining simple ideas.
@@johmarie7She talks in circles and has no real points.
@johmarie7 - Never dared to leave school?? Reference for that assertion?
I hear her loud and clear and I agree! I also appreciate JP very much.
I completely agree with her. I'm a veteran teacher , a homeschool mom, and an engineer. She's nailed it!
What a formidable lady. She knows her subject well and Jordan let her make her point. I now have to find the full interview.
Yes, and hopefully it will begin with a full description of her methods and how she applies them at the Michaela School-a state primary school in central London with a very mixed racial/ethnic and religious intake from families of low to modest incomes.
Yes. Maybe in the full interview Jordan will answer her question on what “they” mean when they say children should be taught _how_ to think. 🙂
@@juleslondon3088Well that’s pretty clear, isn’t it? If all you do is feed children facts at face value, they won’t know how to vet information, look out for logical fallacies, and find solutions that aren’t plainly presented to them. Teaching a child how to think is teaching them how to seek out and vet information and what to do with it. I’ve tutored and taught for decades now, and I find that my students don’t retain “what” I teach them if they don’t have the ability to absorb and categorize it properly. So as a teacher I focus on the “how” skill first. That’s far more important. It makes them better students now and better adults later. If more people were taught how to think, misinformation wouldn’t have as much of a grip on the modern world and politics wouldn’t be as tribal.
@ I agree with the points you make but I don’t think that’s clear to many people at all. If it were then I don’t think we’d be having this discussion. 🙂
I appreciate that you’re being brief but there’s an whole lot more to teaching children (and adults) how to think for themselves aside from how to research. I’m pretty sure you know that but it’s more depth on this point that I’d like to hear from JP & co.
What did she say that was formidable?
In Taiwan, China, and other Asian countries, her opinions and methods are the default. These students are absurdly bright and educated, yet many seem to have issues navigating life in aspects related to social interaction and relationships. Depression is common and I believe no matter how smart, you can't fully shake off the pressure marks of a high-stress childhood.
Exactly. Very few are capable of any growth or creative, individualistic thought because they taught to absorb and refrain from thought.
This is especially true in japan. I find the majority I’ve met trained that way were repressed and messed up.
They were incapable of growth into themselves. Many didn’t even understood what that meant.
Her philosophy is dangerous and harmful when executed in reality.
@@kalabakonbitts1362 You missed the forest for the trees.
Is that because of how they are taught or because they in schooling/homework 24/7 with no free time? id say its the later
No, it's because if they don't do well at "prescribed learning." The punishment from parents, school, society is truly unbearable.
If they do, do well, then that standard is always expected of them.
The pressure is immense. Then the kid grows up, ever scared, thinking they are an imposter.
There is little wriggle room to deviate from the path. Yet "prescribed learning" is set up in a way for few to accomplish it.
It's set up to whittle more out, as quickly as possible, than to keep them in. Especially in the UK.
@@josephl9619
Depression is common here in USA where kids have that freedom as well. So which is it. I don’t think she’s as tyrannical or strict as some people are being led to believe. And there’s many factors to consider
She is amazing! We are doing a disservice to our children if we don’t teach them the basics. I’m 67 years old and my mother taught me that her job as my mother was to raise the children to be a good and kind persons and a productive member of society and if she did her job correctly then you might be friends with your adult children . That’s the way I raised my family and yes my children and I are on good terms and they are responsible citizens.
Me too! 😊
This is exactly the problem. Women think they can teach men and they can’t.
Two problems:
1. Children eventually become adults. So, if all you've ever done is spoonfed them, your kids/students become seriously disadvantaged.
2. Children vary wildly: in maturity, in intelligence, in application of knowledge, etc.. Treating them uniformly is lazy & to their detrirment.
Different children need different levels of freedom & adherence, and the balance is always shifting.
The greatest gift to a child is a mentor who understands what dose they need when.
💯💯💯 omg yes. And I saw JP acknowledge this. Present choices: wise choices. Example - asking kids what they’d like to eat: salad or steamed veggies? What dressing would you like? JPs outfit idea was good too. You’re giving children confidence to exercise decision making and independence in a safe and smart way, without compromising safety or well-being. I think JP is more balanced in this way. He recognizes the necessity of developing a foundation of knowledge for children while having confidence in them to encourage critical thinking abilities (how to think) but guiding them, and ensuring they also access natural consequences.
Agreed. It sounds like she bases her entire approach off of not wanting to think about things.
I'm on board with the idea of not treating kids like adults (those who do so are taking their life experience for granted,) but some kids benefit from more responsibility while other's do not.
I agree. Her model is great for preparing soldiers and Olympic athletes, but not so great for everyone else.
@@QuaseQuasimodo School is not everything. It is a few hours a day. To be efficient in a big group, the choices must be limited. Generally, to avoid chaos and wasting the time and resources.
Most of the children nowadays are brought believing they are omnipotent decision-makers. They are not. None of us PERSONALLY decide on most of the world. You do not even decide on opening hours of shops and institutions nor about the legislation of your country. You can vote but you do not decide on details personally.
In most cases in life you need to remember you are a part of society, a part of bigger group and you are not more/less important than others. Like soldiers.
What is wrong with that?
Children would be less frustrated young adults if the school system did not lie to/manipulate them.
And finally, teachers should not be made a service staff to children. In many places of collapsing western world, they are.
We can see the results. Egoism is a virtue. Being able to cooperate without permanent power play, being able to wait without frustration, being able to work hard and live happily without instant gratification is obviously almost non-existent.
All these things are naturally taught in schools focused on teaching knowledge first with strong position of a teacher.
I think my main disagreement with her is over the phrase "what to think". Teaching explicit facts and building a robust foundation of knowledge is not teaching kids what to think. That being said, the lack of a robust foundation of knowledge is the problem, and her approach will remedy that-it will also teach them how to think by, as she said, helping them to know the topic extremely well.
However, I think Jordan's approach of controlled choice-when choice is appropriate-is better. We're not always in a rush to get where we're going.
The Bible is clear:
"Raise a child in the way he should go and he wont soon depart from it"
Not "raise a child in the way he decides and thats like totally fine or whatever man"
Except that people do soon depart from it
Goodness, Katherine is so superb. Her clarity of thought and commitment is just wonderful. It is a damning indictment on the UK and its educational establishment that not all schools follow her educational approach, and indeed often combat it.
In most situations, children should be told what to do by their parents, not asked.
It depends. It depends on the age of the children and where they are.
As long it's not immoral/unethical.
But there is a way to ask, and not to ask, that creates resistance or cooperation.
I see all the time moms ask their kids “do you want to put your shoes on?” Or “will you pick up your toys?” And this just does not work! “It’s time to put shoes on” and “it’s time to clean up” are direct Instructions but not “mean”. It’s not always about what you want in life. It’s sometimes about what you need to get done.
I disagree. If kids are always told what to do, they won't develop the ability to choose anything, they will become overly reliant. They need to be given restricted choices (all of the choices being acceptable) so they learn how to make good decisions. Otherwise they will become anxious adults like the millinnials, and have extremely poor self esteem because their parents always implied "you aren't smart enough to make a good decision so I'm going to make it for you."
I disagree with her. There needs to be a balance of knowledge and how to think. I actually grew up in a strict environment similar to what she is describing about her school. I was a good kid. I “excelled” because I was obedient and I listened well. I gained a lot of knowledge and you could argue that I was “excelling” but then I left home and school and suddenly I was living a life where there were no more expectations anymore. No one was telling me what I should do and I had no ability to think for myself independently. It was a humiliating time in my life and I still struggle with the fallout from that twenty years later.
Yes you need to give kids what they need and restrict their choices but you also need to teach them how to be independent and make good choices for themselves or else they will be lost.
Yes but there is a proper time for it and it isn't as a child.
This.
@@ohmaramusic i think its best time to do it as a child. The sooner the understanding of choice and consequence is established in a healthy way, the sooner the child can develop their own identity and consciousness and be free of any possible trauma inducing scenarios due to their lack of freedom.
I was in the same sort of childhood where my parents made all my choices for me, and i was a good kid so i went along with the whole ride and they were good parents so things went well enough throughout childhood and i was very fortunate in the life they gave me. The problem came when i was released into the actual real world to function off of my own autonomy and decisions as an adult moving out of home. I felt so indecisive about everything because i never had to make my own decisions before, so i adopted the strategy of just going along with the flow of everything, and just doing whatever my friends around me were doing or just taking on whatever was coming my way without ever really having to make a choice. Living this way eventually had me ending up in an incredibly abusive relationship with a narcissistic sociopath that had total control of me, and at the time i just had no idea what was going on or how to handle the situation. Through therapy i realised my reactions and responses that led to interacting with these people and getting in this situation was just an outcome of what i had learned through the type of childhood i lived. I never learned what choice actually was and i have had to survive the trauma of r*pe in order to learn that i did have a choice, and my life is actually mine to live. I would have much rather learned something that simple from my parents as a child rather than through this horrific trauma 25 years into my life. I will make sure that my kids learn these things and what choice and individuality is in a safe and healthy way better than what i experienced.
@@ohmaramusic my parents stopped parenting me when I was 12. Good luck with whatever you’re thinking. Who teaches rebellious teens anything?
It depends on the kid. You should be able to try independence whenever you are ready to try to. It’s different for everyone. I’m not sure when i was ready but it probably was when I was about 12 or so. When i started wondering about what kind of man I would become in the future.
Totally agree! I am from Lithuania. Growing as a child, there were rules in our home, what we could do and what we couldn't. In schools we were taught WHAT to think, so that now we are more free than all the western civilizations, where too much freedom led to chaos, as we see.
I live in the United States and I do not think it is chaotic at all. It’s just that the news only shows crazy things, not normal things, because that is what draws more viewers.
But ya, I can’t think of the last time I actually saw something chaotic happen in real life here.
Family dinner is what we did with my daughter, it's nice to eat together and we don't have time to cook different meals.
I am a neighbor to you (from Latvia) and I dissgree. Growing up as spoon-fed toddler is not the way. I have been there and now despite finishing with honors struggle to do basic tasks and everything is a huddle. I wait to be cared by parents and wait for instructions outside what to do. I don't take initiative and I am more as an information collection box. Balancing the right amount of freedom vs taking responsibility for choosing (and it's consequences) that depends on child's individual development should be the way. You can't mold everyone in the same way. I couldn't relate to kids as I grew up faster and prefered in my teens have conversations with adults. Forcing me fucked me up more. It felt like a tyranny and absence of freedom (choices).
This is awesome. The best advice I've learned recently and it applies to this conversation is: all kids make dumb decisions and it's my job as a parent to teach and prevent those decisions from happening.
the problem is that there is a crazy amount of “facts”. literally every second, new facts are “made”. so, even if a school system is based on teaching “facts”, the problem is usually to choose WHICH facts you wanna teach - and these facts will be chosen according to the ideology of the teacher or the school (because it’s impossible to teach all). I grew up learning the facts or “knowledge” and it’s been changed to learning how to think because the chosen facts were obviously way too biased.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying this. We should be cramming kids' heads full of knowledge so they have something to think about!
Not knowledge but information.
Knowledge is information understood and instantiated.
But what if they never utilize 90% of the "knowldege" or what they "learned" when they are adults? Does that then limit other useful subjects or useful knowlwdge that they might be able to obtain later in life?
Exactly!!
Not cramming. Children have a natural curiousity. If we present the information, they will suck it up.
̇Also, there should be a LOT more practical/hands-on learning. Our current system places so much on head/book knowledge, and kids come out not knowing how to do real stuff in the real world.
Does "cramming" kids' heads full of knowledge prevent learning more useful skills when they become an adult? I think so.
Wow! She has an unpopular viewpoint. I like it!
😂
She has a correct viewpoint.
They both are not wrong. Jordan does not have the background in education. He has good ideas, he knows how to handle a childs limitations buts knows little about the capabilities children have and don't have on a large scale. He knows what the end product should look like: a secure self thinking person who is not swayed too much by peer pressure, but she knows how to get there.
@@ragnakleinen2109 Jordan does have a background in education as a professor in universities since 1993. He was instructing students in higher education for decades. Also he raised 2 children with his wife. Plus had a successful therapy practice. I'm sure the fact that he instructed young adults will make him seem like he doesn't have a background in children, but he was seeing those children after they grew up and attended university.
It's unpopular because it's wrong, if not outright evil. Sort of like Jordan's opinion that eating rotting flesh will give health.
OMG This is gold. They are treating children like mini adults. I work with parents in my own business as a child behaviour specialist and I am really surprised on what parents think on how they should be treating children. They think it is old fashioned to be authoritative and traumatising to their children.
Experiment 25 or universe 25 by John Calhoun shows us the future if this trend continues.
Why not a little bit of both? Genuinely curious about your opinion. My style is authoritative (which is different from authoritarian) with clear boundaries and growing responsibilities according to ones age. A authoritarian to me seems to be pushing away more children who behave differently than the norm.
Her method isn't old fashioned, it's the default in Taiwan and China. The kids are bright but have underdeveloped social skills, emotional intelligence, and creativity. The prefrontal cortex's function and development is literally is impeded by high stress. I strongly believe kids gotta get some slack. Most humans couldn't even read or write 200 years ago. We're not evolved to be put through the ringer in this manner.
you got it in one, mr garabaldi. All children used to be treated as mini adults but this wa considred unfair, so we developd childhood to extend to 18, and now we are suggesting even further elonation. This solves nothing. In fact, I think its acting a LOT more like a genetic Shelf event, that is, so many people will be destroyed by lack of good guidance that far less will be successful procreators.
I love this woman’s devotion to children and her honesty and her intelligence. Speak truth to power!
Been a teacher for 21 years at every grade level. Kids, especially little kids, exist in a world where they have no power. They eat when and what they're told. They're told when to go to the bathroom, they're told where to be and who they must obey, all essentially blindly. What kids want is to be taken seriously. They aren't adults and shouldn't be treated like adults, but they want a sense that what they say and think matters. I use age appropriate language, but I never talk down to kids. I treat kids with respect. I say please and thank you to them. But I don't coddle them, I expect them to rise to the occasion and for the most par they do. I treat them like...people.
Her examples of teaching children what to think were highly nuanced historical events that can be interpreted in a hundred different ways... I'm still listening to the conversation, but already I am not sure she knows what she is talking about.
I think that's her point exactly. At school, the focus should be on teaching the facts about history, not different interpretations of it. Only once children have a good grasp of the facts should they consider interpretations.
I agree. A lot of the facts differs from perspective to perspective. That is why I do not like history as a subject, but I had a boy I was homeschooling and he asked really good questions and thanks to Google and social media we could find out some facts that were deliberately not part of the curriculum, because it did not fit the message they want to give kids. I think schools focus too much on memorizing facts that do not improve peoples lives now, instead of teaching them how to ask good questions and where and how you can find answers and how to discern if the knowledge you get is good or not.
May I offer some food for thought: Jean Lidloff wrote a wonderful book in 1984. It's called "The Continuum Concept. In search of Happiness Lost". It reminds us that the "concept" of childhood and education hasn't been around for most of the time people had children. The bottom line is : Whatever you "teach", children will always first and foremost do what the adults around them do. And that starts before words and thinking even come into the picture and lays the foundation of what they internalize as " normal" and " natural".
The continuum concept only applies to the first 4 - 6 years. And it is very effective but hard on the parents in the modern world, you have create boundaries sooner in the modern world. But crying kids to sleep as an example has huge risks
@@timothytrudgen8881I am not referring to a 1:1 transfer of concept. But here's the thing: If you talk peace and act violently you're child will act violently plus acting out the consequences of your contradictory behavior on the phsychy...which affects the relationship severely and reduces the ability to learn on a cognitive level...the standard hypocrisy of public figures, tile models and how this behavior is being rewarded in modern society doesn't make it easier for parents and teachers...
Yes, teaching children what to think is a prerequisite for them to be able to learn how to think later on. I don't think any reasonable educator disagrees that a student must first build a foundation of knowledge before they're able to formulate their own rational opinions. But what's happening in many grade schools today are teaches injecting their own brand of activism into the curriculum while passing it off as "fact." That's the crux of the issue here.
Where did these teachers acquire “…their own brand of activism…” ? From some agenda driven higher education facility.
Is this in public school or in Catholic school? I went to Catholic school and they never told us what politics to believe in. They told us the difference between the two parties and had us decide who we would want to vote for. Dole vs Clinton. But my Catholic school did teach us values, acts of service, blessed are the poor and the meek for they shall inherit the Earth.
Absolutely! Brainwashing students.
Exactly what I was thinking. She’s arguing against a straw man. There’s literally no one saying that we should ONLY teach kids how to think. They would never learn a single thing that way.
@@XavierGuillaumeI was at a public school and I had a history teacher who literally would spend a day out of the week 'teaching' his political affiliation. He was a Democrat. It does happen. I am also in a deep red state.
Katharine Birbalsingh 10:00 is describing how my parents were when I was a child growing up in the late sixties to the late 80"s! Those days or that mind set will return!
Thanks to Katherine for a wakeup call for a retired teacher. She has a proven approach - my experience and the examples of the successful teachers from whom I learned. I might add that Benjamin Bloom (1956) produced a which looks at the hierarchy of instruction effectively. In sequence of how a teacher manages them they are Knowledge, Comprehension, Application, Analysis, Synthesis and Evaluation. Progress through learning in such an organized fashion gives youngsters the broad and thorough foundation upon which successful thinking/education is based. Thanks to you, too, Dr. Peterson, for lending your caring and expertise to education.
I just love Katharine and truly wish we had more educators like her!
America still has a lot of excellent teachers, it’s just that they are not recognized. The crazies are recognized if the Woke are running the public schools. It’s a travesty! Many public schools are not run by Woke people, though.
Okay find something interesting at 5:30. She says we need to give kids knowledge and teach them on each topic. She gave the example of salvery, colonialism, and American history I believe. The problem is my school did teach me all that, but the way and the stuff that they brought into, it was completely different! For example, when they taught us about colonialism they taught us that Christopher Columbus never came to America and Thanksgiving was made up holiday, and the first colonials were ravegers. There is so much bias in the education system about how each topic should be taught, and it’s un helpful that some teachers come with prejudices about what should be taught and how each topic should taught.
Reply: She does address it later in the video.
Literally stopped at that exact moment as well to say more or less what you just said. This woman is an idiot. She does not know “education” in and out. She DOES, on the other hand, understand indoctrination…and if she had her way we would be perfect little socialists.
You are correct but it is up to each of us to interpret information, question it and take into account the tendency for bias. If we don't - then we would all end up as naive fools ! Which is
maybe what is currently happening !!
HOME SCHOOLING..... I have personally witnessed many families who have home schooled for a couple decades and the outcomes are amazing! EDUCATION....real genuine education!
Yes! I have 2 masters degrees but my homeschooled children are so much smarter than me. 😂 Seriously though, learning through living books and letting them dive deep has made them such great thinkers. I just memorized facts to pass a test and then forgot it all.
I agree with her thoughts to a degree, but also disagree with some parts too.
Namely, I was a kid who was given that sort of upbringing. I ate and did what I was told for the first eighteen years of my life, making nearly no choices involving my own lifestyle. I got really good grades and even worked a part-time job just because i was told to. I didn't have a smart phone until I was 17.
Then I graduated highschool, and EVERYTHING opened up, and my parents and teachers all said "okay, we aren't telling you what to do anymore, you're all grown up and can make your own decisions!" and it led me into a spiral of panic because I had NO CLUE what to do with myself, and I had never really held any agency for my own life up to that point. I obsessed over finding the "perfect answer" of how to live my life, and repetitively hit the wall.
It took a long time for me to realize that the authority figures in my life hadn't always known what was the perfectly correct choice for me, and that there could BE more than one "correct" choice for me to take.
So honestly, I wish that I had been taught during k-12 how to think more critically about my own personal values- not to an obsessive degree, which would lead to narcissism. Just to a moderate degree- because it would've led to a lot less floundering and depression in my college years. There has to be a balanced amount of freedom given- enough to establish a sense of personal responsibility, but not so much that the individual becomes self-absorbed to the point of delusion.
This is interesting because that is how my husband was raised and he is very much like that. My parents were more like the 2nd example Jordan gave about teaching your child to pick their own clothes but giving them small parameters to follow, and I didn't struggle like that as an adult. When we first got married, it was like being married to a teenager because he didn't know what to do or how to figure out what to do, whereas I adjusted extremely quickly and was soon running everything, and I had to slowly teach him how to make decisions.
So yes, I totally agree with you, I think you should teach a bit of both, teach them how to "make good decisions" rather than the teach them "how to think" argument
Such a blessing to be told, "you're wrong and here's why"
Amen!! That's how I raised 4 kids... I always told them. I rather you hate me now, so you will be around to love me later.
That’s very true!! A parent who loves guides in truth.
Very, VERY well put!
I remember this interview. Incredibly important!
Kathryn is amazing! Would that every child within Western Civilization at least were taught by someone like her! Absolutely love you both. ❤👍🙏🐻🇺🇲🇬🇧🇨🇦
The first thing children need to learn is HOW THEY LEARN and how to discern. Once a child can teach themselves, the world is their oyster. But teachers will not do that. They will then lose control over what the child knows. They believe they will become unnecessary. In a way, they are correct. But if a teacher or parent does their job right, they do become unnecessary. That is a sign of success.
We also need to prioritize logical thinking and critical thinking above simple memorization. Simply memorizing a subject might mean that you can then spew the facts, but not that one can then reason and apply that knowledge logically. I would argue that the one who can think logically is better off than the one who can only spew facts.
Another problem is how teachers are taught. Get rid of the “education” degree.
Lastly, parents are a child’s best teacher. Parents should be the ones who know their child best. We need to value the role of parenting. We need to prioritize it over our own career. It needs to be valued as a “career” choice. Homeschooling your children is one of the most rewarding choices you can make. I know it was for me and my family.
I need to add that the best way children learn to make good choices are by making choices as they grow.
For instance;
As a toddler you give them a choice between a couple of outfits. This grows until as a teenager they choose their entire wardrobe.
As a toddler you give them a choice between a couple of vegetables. This grows until as a teenager they can plan and prepare an entire meal.
This can be applied to everything. This is how one matures.
By the time my children left home they could and did manage everything. They refused to live in a dorm at college because of the lunacy that life is. They worked their way through college without loans. We only paid the tuition. They paid all the rest. Books, supplies, and their living expenses. They did not drink or stay out all night partying. This is maturity. This is how you guide your child along the way. While compliance can be enforced, maturity cannot be forced. It can only be guided.
This is how I was raised and did the same with my children, as she describes regarding meal time. We always had supper together and none of my children were, or continue to be, picky eaters. They had to try everything and were only allowed to have a couple of foods, (from the total menu of all my meals) that they could abstain from.
I thought this sounded familiar. This is a clip from JBP's June podcast, titled "A Message From the Strictest Headmistress in the UK | Katharine Birbalsingh | EP 458".
I'm not complaining at all, just noting the fact. I'm very grateful for the tremendous amount of video JBP has posted for free.
Really enjoyed this conversation. She brought an interesting point of view. I totally agree with the restrictions on children.
Children are emotional... They can't gain knowledge without a response... Especially with social media now
As someone with young children, I love this and need this JP!
in my memory, the best teachers I ever had were the strict yet fair ones. They remain substantial in my life today, in terms of the lessons they brought to me. I remember them to this day. I will respect them on the day I die. There is something to be said about what this lady is saying, as it aligns quite well with the way those women taught me as a child.
It’s great to see Jordan P. Be put on the spot and truly challenged on his views. It’s a rare thing.
She's so very right!
This lady is great. A pleasure to listen to.
Haven't thought about it like this. Katharine makes so much sense and it is in line with how children have been brought up for the most part of history, except in modern times.
Omg! The more I listen to her the more I applaud👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 her! She and her focus on changing education the more excited I am and would ask president trump to invite her to mar a lago for a sit down to hear her and trust that she is the change we need!!!
Oh God, I would have been so miserable as a child with this kind of parenting, or "guidance" ... even children need some autonomy and sense of responsibility that comes with that autonomy. My mom, for instance was given no freedom at all, and struggled quite a bit in adolescence and early adulthood ...she gave me quite a bit of freedom, but with explanations and guidance about the right choice, and i wanted to do what was best for myself and others...and that autonomy gave me a tremendous sense of responsibility and sense of sacrifice that came from inside ~ intrinsic motivation to choose wisely and be good. Make of that what you will... yet i can't agree with removing all freedom from children.
Of course, not total freedom, but some amount of freedom for children I see as essential, as preparatory for later life.
Perfectly articulated
13:31.. it's how I was brought up. You ate everything on your plate, or you sat there, until you ate everything on your plate. Critical thinking comes out of limited choices. For example, I had a small dog that would help me to finish what was sometimes on my plate. Painter's pants with lots of pockets. When the dog wouldn't have anything to do with what was on my plate. I'll be 60 in a few months, but I grew up in the best time of our founding in 1776
BRAVO! I've seen this lady before but this is the first time hearing her speaking. I couldn't agree more. How strange that what everybody knew and took for granted when I was growing up (GenX here) is now considered revolutionary or whatever. It's common sense.
9:01
"We have to ask them, "What would you like to eat?" Put the spinach and broccoli in front of them and tell them to eat it."
THANK YOU! This drives me nuts! Kids don't know anything. She kept stressing that, because it's true. You cannot know how to think of something when you don't know that thing about which you are supposed to be thinking!
To the choice thing, as JP said, even as adults, when we are confronted with shelves & shelves of shampoo (or whatever example he used) we feel overwhelmed. We don't know where to start. It's much easier to make a choice when there are only a few options. Now think of children, especially younger ones who are just learning to interact in words/sentences. Again, they don't have FACTS about so much in their world. They feel that same confusion and overwhelm about EVERYTHING. Putting it upon them to constantly decide everything is too much for them. No wonder they have meltdowns!
Kids need meat.
Not spinach and brocolli.
@@anotherlover6954. Common sense indicates the example extends to meat, too, as is does to all other foods. Katharine chose broccoli and spinach as her examples.
@@anotherlover6954I disagree. Kids should be eating high speed chicken feed.
This is fantastic. I’d like to see children taught “what” to think while the goal throughout their school tenure is “how” to think.
Dude I am 100% for all the ideas this lady has. It’s basically how I was raised, I had Asian and Mexican parents.
This is how public education used to be in America, and how parents used to raise their kids. Many parents still raise their children in America the way they used to be raised.
It is not merely a matter of imparting knowledge; rather, it is essential to equip individuals with the tools and the intrinsic motivation to explore diverse perspectives and seek further understanding. Only then can they avoid becoming confined within intellectual echo chambers.
Yes, but you must do the first part of imparting knowledge.
1:13 I think I can say that in general I feel that people should not say “you are all wrong”. There is a closedness of mind in it which is opposed to growth. I too have certain philosophies which I prefer, like existentialism over materialism (if these are opposed at all) - but on which grounds would I argue that anyone has it “wrong”? I think this is always a value with respect to a certain base one choses. Respect and science and growth and being truly human means being open for other peoples’ values.
A lot of this can be resolved by teaching your kids how to be emotional mature as they develop. Yes, restrict them, but giving them opportunities to express their opinionated freedom.
Mr. Reed, Garside Jr High School, Las Vegas, Nevada. Our “Current Events” teacher. Our text was “Newsweek.” We did not buy anything, without thinking!
She seems cool and makes a good point of filling their heads with relevant knowledge. But the idea of 'exercising the choice muscle' which JP explained in his example of getting a child to choose between 3 outfits instead of 40 is important. It's like the first steps towards independence. If you're too strict they'll likely rebel in more destructive ways right? But yes, you cant be asking them what they want to eat for every food item etc.
Look, Katherine is speaking about elementary age children, not Jr. high or high school age. Did you get to choose what you wore in kindergarten, or 5th grade? I was constrained with my parents economics, so I might want to wear a leather jacket as a fifth grader, but that wasn’t happening. I wore what my parents could afford to buy me. And I definitely wore a coat and hat and gloves to school when it was cold. You would be surprised at the kids who showed up with no coat on cold days.
Yeah, for someone who has a cocaine addiction Jones-ing a
for her next fix.
Jones
No, I was not raised this way. Just look at the facts: America used to be much more dominant in homes and schools. I didn’t have a choice about what to eat, what to wear, or what to do, except for when my aunt took me shopping and I could pick out my favorite clothes. But overall, it was what my teachers said and what my parents said-that’s what it was. There wasn’t a lot of back-and-forth. I believe this provided structure, discipline, and clear expectations.
Kids today are often given too many choices, and I think it creates confusion and makes them question authority too much. When we just tell them what it is, it sets them on the right path without the distractions of trying to figure everything out on their own. Y’all are creating some privileged, entitled, spoiled kids. Yall honestly don’t see it today? Kids in Beverly Hills as opposed to kids in Baldwin Hills have more structured because we grew up in an environment I’m speaking of. The kids that are causing destruction in the world today did not have structure. They were not taught of what to think. We need to teach children about God as well while we’re on the subject of kids.
Ok. I could be wrong then.
My mom was my friend as a kid...
Just a very bossy & bipolar friend... ❤❤❤
I believe both are valuable - teaching children what to think while also teaching them how to think. For example, this is what we know now; however, it is valuable to practice flexibility in what we know to be true now because as we evolve, our way of understanding life evolves. 😊
Great interaction.
I feel fortunate to have watched it,
Thank you both.
Really good post.
Being a classical education enthusiast, working in education and have had (some) experience in academia, this is a point that I've harped on for a long time now, especially with friends of mine who are teachers.
All skills are based in foundational knowledge. You cannot teach someone "how" to think without teaching them what it is that they are meant to think about first.
This is a point unpopular with both the post-moderns and the classical liberals, however, as you have to choose "what" to teach, which is based on a prior value judgement. In other words, there is no value-free education.
1000% agree with her
Yeah I know, but there are a bunch of things to pick apart.
Kids in inner-city schools, might not have had enough words read to them since childhood. Or had early-life enculturation, if they're coming from different cultures. They might need more regimentation, more informational input, and systematic enculturation as though they were being re-integrated from early childhood.
These same considerations might also involve a certain psychological type, regardless of cultural background.
So, Libertarians tend to advocate for school choice, not a one-size-fits-all solution.
If you sufficiently control for these factors, and possibly also work to mitigate the limitations of those with the above-posited psychological type from an early age, THEN I suspect you would consistently see the purported benefits of Montessori-type, early education.
That's probably not what Birbalsingh's working with.
Look at her results.
She's clearly not wrong, even though the alternative in many contexts, has also been proven right.
Respectfully, I feel that midroll add is inappropriate and cheapens the message. And I say that as a precious metal specialist.
Unprofitable podcasts fade away.
I have been a public school teacher for 30 years. I also have 3 grownup children. I agree with this headmistress’s views about raising and teaching children. It is how I raised my children and is also how I ran my fifth grade classroom.
Absolutely adore this video. I’ve been saying this for a long time. Children can’t deal with things that are too powerful for them. Freedom is too powerful and so they will misuse it. Creating a mental vacuum in their minds allows for anyone else to fill that in. Allowing our children so much freedom was a collective effort in neglect. This is why we are seeing what we are seeing. Children were mentally neglected and now they are too soft and weak to handle freedom as adults properly.
8:58 Katharine] "These children who are the center of the world [or who are treated as such] we need to ask them what they think about everything, we have to ask them 'what would you like to eat...'" What you end up with is what we have, a couple of generations of children and young adults who expect to always get exactly and only what they want and tend to act like little tyrants as a result.
Spot on :-)
I agree with this but also disagree because if you have an autistic child who has texture problems it's a little different.
When I went to school, I was taught all the "knowledge" she speaks of here. The details, the key battles.. etc. We didn't receive ideological teaching. We were extremely restricted in what we could and did learn, and many of us had no choices in how we were raised - which created a vast amount of mental health issues. (Travelling was what expanded my mind and showed me that more existed.) We missed out on learning skills in school. Most I know around my age have never settled anywhere in the workforce. Some have never joined it. Why does the focus have to be either what OR how? Why can't it be both?
Truth is, I find extremely restricted teaching (and parenting) to be lazy, bordering on inhumane. It's where we've come from, and all it produced was good industrial workers. I can say similar for totally individualistic and free-range teaching! But that only seems to produce people who are unable and unwilling to work.
Why can't the skill of wise choice be taught, and the individual's range of choice be gradually expanded when they prove they can choose wisely? - I already have some answer to this: lack of healthy adult input.
Yes! This! Well said.
She's absolutely right. I'm a retired high school math teacher (30 years).
I love Doctor Peterson, I do. She "schooled" him! He's smart enough to actually listen and learn. Much love to these leaders, please lead us!
This lady is brilliant 👏 👏👏
The desire to impose restrictions on children often stems from our own limitations-both in knowledge, resources and in the time we can devote as 'busy' adults. While it’s true that children need boundaries for their own safety and development, it’s equally important that these boundaries don’t feel stifling, especially in an era where they often possess knowledge and skills that surpass ours in certain areas.
The key lies in striking a balance: restrictions are necessary, but they should also allow for opportunities for growth, recognizing that not all children are the same. A "contour-based" approach to learning seems ideal-working within established limits while encouraging children to push beyond them when appropriate.
By the time a child reaches the age of 7 or 8, their cognitive potential can be astonishing, often sharper and more adaptable than our own. Such minds shouldn’t be constrained by our limitations. Instead, they should be nurtured through guidance and mentorship, empowering them to explore, innovate, and thrive within a framework of thoughtful support.
She is terrifying. One word springs to mind CHILDISM.
She says they are communists and she treats them like communists.
ya she seems brilliantly naive.
Exactly she very much underestimates children.
Three people completely missing the point here...
wich is?... give children less options and be more assertive with them... thats directly in line with jordans teaching, is it not? yet she kept insisting he is totally 100% wrong to the point it was annoying.@wjdeoliveira3809
@@wjdeoliveira3809 or just you?
You cannot “think outside the box” if there’s no box. If you don’t understand or recognize the “boundaries” to begin with how can you push the boundaries?
She strikes me as something of a self-publicist, who's stumbled across a formula that works very well with a subset of children. (Her school has a self- selecting cohort)
“Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child…” Proverbs 22.15
I really like this lady. I wrestle a bit with the family dinner piece she talks about around 9:47. I actually agree in general that families ought to eat together and I agree that choices should be limited. Personally, I offer one choice but also a backup choice because my daughter has digestive issues and some things don’t sit well with her and I have the same issue so I empathize with that. That being said, I also had an eating disorder for years that my parents had no idea about and we never ate dinner together by High School. If we had and if a rule like that were enforced, perhaps they would’ve noticed things sooner. I think the bigger issue is families not having time for each other and always being in “go” mode than the actual food being served, but perhaps I do need to challenge my own reservations and make this happen so my own kids don’t grow up struggling with it. Thankfully, they’re still quite little and I have time to course correct now.
It definitely depends family to family, but it doesn't sound like you're doing anything very different, you're tailoring the choice for your daughters needs, without excluding her from the main meal.
I think the problem that develops that Katherine is avoiding, is that the children become the tyrants themselves, saying, "I want the banana, but you cut it up so now I don't want it" or "I dont like ___" even though they ate them last time... They're exercising control that they do not know, understand or can control themselves, like many of their other emotions.
This could become a problem for you aswell, but as long as you're careful and teach them to not use their digestive issue as an excuse for anything. And then they only choose option 2 because they can't eat the first, rather then just because it seems nicer
Again, it sounds like you're already doing the same thing, but just employing empathy when necessary to tailor it to your families unique needs
Children do not understand what is natural, nor do they comprehend their own nature and the nature from which we originated today.
This lack of understanding is profoundly concerning. Research reveals a staggering decline in the physical activity of children across generations. For instance, children of my grandfather's generation typically moved about 30 kilometres a day, a significant testament to their active lifestyles. In contrast, my generation halved that distance, and now we find that today’s children barely move an average of 300 to 600 meters daily.
This alarming trend signifies more than just a decrease in physical movement; it highlights a disconnection from the primal, instinctual existence that defines our nature. The children of today are becoming increasingly estranged from the physical world and from the environment that shaped humanity.
To understand what it means to be truly natural, to reconnect with our intrinsic nature and that of our ancestors, we must reflect on the ramifications of this sedentary lifestyle. If we fail to bridge this gap, our children will continue to drift further away from the essence of what it means to be alive.
Ultimately, children do not understand what is natural, nor do they comprehend their own nature and the nature from which we originated today.
I disagree about children being communists. Much like modern ideological communists in today’s modern world, it might sound like a nice idea, but when it comes down to practicing the principles of communism it’s a different story. Kids have a sense of earning things, they tend to think of themselves first and what they want, it’s only as they mature do they consider how everyone else feels or what is in their best interest.
You just described a communist lol
Tell them about the Holodomour!
Tell them about that sweet sweet Weimar Republic.
For everyone in this comments section question what it means to teach children “how” to think: If all you do is feed children facts at face value, they won’t know how to vet information, look out for logical fallacies, and find solutions that aren’t plainly presented to them. Teaching a child how to think is teaching them how to seek out and vet information and what to do with it. I’ve tutored and taught for decades now, and I find that my students don’t retain “what” I teach them if they don’t have the ability to absorb and categorize it properly. So as a teacher I focus on the “how” skill first. That’s far more important. It makes them better students now and better adults later. If more people were taught how to think, misinformation wouldn’t have as much of a grip on the modern world. If more people knew how to learn they would be hungrier for it, and politics wouldn’t be as tribal.
tbis woman is brilliant. pure old fashioned tried and tested wisdom born from experience
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