I remember reading that somewhere in Africa, the witching hour is 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I always imagine a scene where the wind suddenly dies down, the sun becomes unbearably hot, the birds and animals are silent. Nothing moves and there is no sound.
@@theguybehindyou4762 you never heard of suspension of disbelief? I'm not even sure which part you're talking about disproving. Like seriously, are you against any level of fantasy? Then what's even the point?
I think one horror trope I hate is when main characters are facing a serial killer or a zombie and they'll basically aim everywhere but the head and wonder why the zombie or killer won't die.
Some excellent points, especially number 5. What I'd like to see more of is the parent/adult figure realising that if the kids/teens are genuinely terrified then they must have seen something genuinely terrifying. Especially if they're good, honest kids that aren't prone to making things up.
You're dead on. And such a scenario would definitely fit with the times since parents today are more concerned with keeping their kid safe/happy. It's time for Horror stories to reflect that.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Hey, I'm currently writing a horror novel - or novella, mini-novel idk. But I wanted to know if you think this would be a good idea for subverting the last cliché you mentioned; A killer is stalking residents of a small town, but with every kill, they slowly get more exhausted - and it's exacerbated every time a victim fights back. So in the final fight, predator and prey both have to try and trap the other - the villain facing physical exhaustion, and the hero pushing their mental/emotional limit. So instead of a simple cat and mouse game, it's more a question of who breaks first.
@@Emerald501st Yeah that works because you’re actively showing the villain being worn down over the course of the story. As long as there’s a logical reason for the villain being less dangerous, that can work
I agree with everything. Especially the daytime deal. I am from India and as a child, I used to watch a horror TV serial which was a favourite for everybody at the time. My earliest memory of terror was one particular episode where a bunch of friends get stuck in a large bungalow and start getting killed one by one. Eventually one of them makes it out, through the night, is found by a man who takes him to his place. This man's cottage is in the middle of nowhere and overlooks a corn field. Just when this guy thought he was safe and resting at this new place, sipping tea on the man's porch, the tractor starts running on its own in the field right in the middle of a dry, sunny afternoon and the scarecrow starts turning to face the guy. The evil had apparently followed him outside the house. That scene has stuck with me. It was the creepiest! I have since craved more stories with scenes during the daytime because the scope is endless. Some scenes in Insidious happen during the day. That was nice for a change.
Also from India, and I loved horror tv serials. One particular episode I remember was a group of people stuck in a building with a witch killing them and iirc the trigger was always light. It's the light that got them killed. And once the sun came up, they thought they were safe but the witch was waiting for them.
I definitely feel ya on the selectively dangerous killer. I hate when movies have the heroine running as fast as she can through alleys and buildings but every time she looks back the killer (Who just brutally and efficiently murdered all of her friends) is just sauntering menacingly after her like he's grandma going up stairs with a walker. And the heroine will inevitably run into a building, lock the door, and turn around to see he's apparently just teleported into the building ahead of her like he's Kurt Wagner. It's so lazy!
While I agree #5 is definitely an overused cliché, I tend to believe it's more about isolating the victim, than it is about the demon "running away." If the parent - the one person a child trusts to believe and protect them above all else - doubts their word, the child withdraws emotionally, making it that much easier for the demon/entity to get in their head, break down their spirit, make the child believe *they* are the only one who cares about them, and eventually corrupt them.
The issue is execution of the cliche. Most horror stories are lazy with character development and don’t highlight this more nuanced take that you mentioned, so it just comes across as tedious. With proper emphasis on character/family dynamics, this cliche wouldn’t feel so washed up.
Ironically, the best use of that variation is one where the villain really can't get to the victims most of the time: _A Nightmare on Elm Street._ Think about how inattentive the average white suburban parent is, and how many terrible things happen to kids every year that just get ignored by their families-it's a concept that works well when it's done with conscious intent.
I hate it when Something extremely traumatizing happens and the characters act Like its nothing. The Main character Sees His best friend being torn apart with a chainsaw. Their reaction: "Oh no. Anyway..." Thats why I was impressed when I watched Jeepers Creepers. I Like that they took the time to actually show how traumatized the main character was after seeing all those corpses, instead of throwing the next action scene in our faces right away.
Hi there! I'm a horror writer and I have to say that I agree with mostly everything you said. I'm trying to put new twists on cliches that have been worn out. The book I'm writing now is about a group of friends who are lured to go to a haunted house where a woman died. They find out that the site is where a malevolent force lives and is a part of something a lot bigger than the haunted house itself. The characters are really smart and I feel like I've made them lovable enough that they can start being harmed by the malevolent force know as, The Hypnotist.
@Caitlyn Carvalho It really depends on how how the writer/director portrays the trope and how the audience interprets it. A skilled creator can draw meaning and impact from tropes that might otherwise cause the audience to groan. Still, some audience members will hate a trope no matter how it's used. As for the Omen, it's been forever since I last saw it (like 2010-ish), so I can't really say
@Caitlyn Carvalho I always thought this trope was, in essence, critical of sexual violence and drew fear from the fact that it is such a disgusting thing
False jumpscare are actually sometimes really useful even if they seem unseccary at the moment. They may used to anchor some emotion and tag them to your character and audience. Ex:- "Dave, with his noodle like shaky legs, bravely venture to the kitchen in Brian's bunglow. His throat was dry like he ate sand. He looked at his right, a shadow menacingly glancing at him. It was some sort of wierd entity with triangular face. There, was some light coming from between the face. There was hole in the face. Dave, took a deep gasp and lost his hold the glass... the face broke... It was just Brian standing behind him, chafing his eye." This a paragraph from my novel, though I have changed the character names and scene and many other details. Here, Dave may attach "being scared" to "Brian and his bunglow" etc. Which later can be used to swerve and direct suspicions of audience and main characters. They are useful, especially when you can add some deep psychological meaning to them, which is only intelligible to subconscious mind. Not the conscious one. What do you think?
@@raghvendrasinghsengar8360 I don't mind them in books because its all part of the show don't tell concept. in books you have only words as a tool to direct your readers where you want them to go. in movies you have the advantage of sight and sound and you can show them what you want. in horror movies of today they are overdone and need to go.
@@PhantomMagician1846 Yep, I completely agree with you. Movies have an extra edge as they have sound, visuals, etc. While books and written text can be like a plain canvas for the read, they may just paint whatever they want, but, it is you, who is giving them aid to. So, yeah you are absolutely correct. Still, that is not what I meant. I meant that we, writers, should use jumpscare, not not as jumpscare, rather we should use them to anchor the emotions of the reader to certain objects, places, persons or anything else. What do you think?
#1 probably starts when a writer doesn’t think into the future of their important character and realizes they are about to be killed so has the antagonist hesitate or miss.
“Mommy, there’s a ghost in my room.” “You said what?!” “There’s a ghost in my room.” “Oh HELL NO. Boys! Get your shit! We’re goin to grandma’s! I said pack those damn bags!!”
Actual vampires AREN'T limited to the night. Dracula was perfectly capable of walking in the sun. The whole sun crap is purely a movie invention. It didn't exist in any of the original stories. It was created solely as a way to differentiate Nosferatu from Dracula due to the makers of the former not having permission to make Dracula. Ever since then idiots think vampires are hurt/killed by the sun, including Dracula, and it makes me want to snack people.
Agreed, but it's become such a central part of vampire lore that it's pretty much the standard now. Scott Snyder's American Vampire comics jump to mind as an exception to the "rule" though
And Dracula could only go into buildings if he was invited, he can't go over running water, like a bridge over a river, and if you placed a rose on his coffin he can't get out until it dies. I wish that stuff showed up again.
@@kylamamber9080 The rose concept is very cool, I'm surprised we don't see it more often. In a way, it's almost as though Thor left his hammer on the coffin.
I can think of a good examples of vampires not fearing sunlight.. Bram Stokers Dracula. I'm sure there are more but I can't remember them. I've written a vampire series that has my character walk through sunlight, not be afraid of religious symbols (always thought that one was funny for some reason). I've learned its MY character and as long as he or she is going by the rules I set up it should be fine.
I have a vampire character in my book who isn't harmed by sunlight, he just hates it with a passion. I haven't really fleshed it out but it has to do with his mortal life and a deep-rooted hatred for all things life affirming. He is the most monstrous character in the book.
One recent cliche I absolute hate is when the heroes do everything right and win, but at the last scene is revealed that the villain won without any explanations. To me this sounds like lazy writing, sequel bating, and a bad attempt at shocking.
I know this is one of your older videos, but it's interesting to note. I do think the points made do hold up, as a consumer who enjoys mostly suspense/horror related stories. One key takeaway I've learnt about what makes horror good is if it stays within the unknown of the character we're viewing. Similar to the saying "humans fear the unknown"; what's the horror if we know what's beyond it? Suspense builds the horror effect, not the other way around. What horrors lie beyond the darkness...is up to our mind to interpret. Then comes the reaction.
"Suspense builds the horror effect" is so critical and doesn't get mentioned enough in regards to horror writing. *What could be* is always scarier than *what is*.
I hate the cliche of the moms who actually believe that there is something wrong in the house and that maybe the kid is right when he said that there was someone below their bed last night while the dad play the role of a cigar smoking, golf playing cycnic. Worst is when the dads ignore the protestations with the usual lines like "I think you are just stressed out with the moving. Why dont you take the kids with you to your mother's and rest for few days?"
I HATE the horror movie with the teenage child angry at their parents for something that happened in the past. The teenager is hostile, quiet, isolated with headphones, angry, answers with an attitude and it’s so annoying. But the writers give the angry kid a backstory so the audience can understand and relate. And at the end of the movie, the family beats the honor or evil and the angry kid becomes lovey, reuniting with the family. Redundant.
I guess the most used trope is the child being right all along, that they've seen monsters and ghost etc. And that no one believes him. And I want to see villains thst are difficult to defeat. 😎🤘
@@WriterBrandonMcNultyMost adults *don't* believe children who've seen apparitions--in fact, most don't believe *adults* who've seen them, either. Same for other classes of paranormal activity, and UFOs. I grew up in a haunted house. Luckily, all of my many brothers and sisters had encounters with the spirits as well. One solution is to have the child bypass the parent somehow in order to get help...or enlist the parent in a sneaky way.
I have a kinda haunting house i liked. It wasnt a house, it was under a bridge. It was in a torchwood episode (a doctor who spinnoff) called ghost machine, it let you see the past. And one of the main character owen used it under a bridge and saw the murder of a woman, lizzie, and it was one of the best haunting ghost things ive seen.
#2 can be applied to action films as well, particularly ones involving military themes. Ususlly you see some unamed soldier get popped and its up to the guy who's been built up to be the hero or protagonist to save eveyone. Like imagine a war film where characters are killed off at random points during combat scenes regardless of how much development they have had up until that point.
#3 I've noticed with a lot of the haunted houses or really horror in general, it's always upper middle class or higher. You never see a haunted apartment or trailer park where the people cannot afford to just move, or that affects their neighbors as well. It also wraps up the whole financial stress into it. They hinted at financial stress in movies like Amityville Horror, The Tall Man, and Money Pit, but it's usually softballed.
Sometimes the daytime can be scarier than night, like It being seen across the street. As a fan of Star Trek TOS, I laughed when you talked about only unimportant characters dying. Red shirts. Funny thing. Villains often don't want to kill the hero. They would rather to have a little chat instead. Meanwhile, the hero strikes without hesitation, like a viper. No chit chat. So, who is the real villain?
Selectively dangerous?...reminds me of the Decepticon Blackout in Transformers wiping out an entire military base by himself, and then his main weapon is like 1/10 the power in the climactic battle.
Exactly. Happens way too often toward the end of a story. I could see if the heroes worked to injure the villain prior to the finale, but usually its the writers who injure the villains.
I almost forgot that one , lol. But that is s good example too. In the first movie he lands in a military base, all the soldiers are shooting at him and he is literally blowing up tanks and jets in one shot.....but at the end of the movie the soldier kills him with one crutch shot ??
Adding to the selectively dangerous villain: when the monster that has been slashing through anyone it's come across finally is confronted by the main character and, instead of slashing through them, the monster picks them up and throws or backslaps them across the room, which of course doesn't incapacitate or seriously injure the main character at all.
For me the haunted trope often doesn't work because you wonder why they bother stubbornly staying there for more than a few days and not send in builders to knock down and reconstruct parts. When this trope is handled best IMO is often when it's very temporary accomodation. I'm a lover of Sword & Sorcery and gamebooks and quite a few occasions you'll have a character who will have to make the decision to either brave the outside conditions where in dark, freezing and/or stormy conditions while very tired you are vulnerable to animals or the environment killing you. Or you could duck into this abandoned building for a few hours and take the risk of ghosts or demons disturbing your rest. Frame it as a legitimate choice where they're weighing up the risks, and then there's actually tension in not knowing if they've picked the right option.
You nailed it. If the house is haunted, at least try to leave. The movie Sinister did this, and the hauntings followed the family, which works much better in terms of logic
i love that your videos are concise. really great as somebody who's trying to write a book for the very first time and is trying to accumulate as much info as possible to make it great. keep doing what you're doing ❤
Re: haunted houses. I was ready to throw hands, but then it just boiled down to *one* type of haunted house story that I agree is overused. Where are the stories about breaking into a haunted house just to explore it? The ones where a traveler lost in the woods needs to take shelter, and that creaky old cabin will do? Where are the stories where the house itself isn't the focal point? If you've seen the film version of Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, there *is* a haunted house, but it's not the main setting, nor is it used in the way these "family moves in, bad things happen, deal with the ghost" movies go. Where are the stories where it *seems* the house is haunted, but something else is actually up? There's so much more you can do with it. Haunted house horror is my comfort, but I agree that this pattern with them is overdone and needs to be retired.
With number one, one thing I love in horror is when the villain is consistently strong, especially if it's a story where the heroes don't necessarily beat the villain, and instead escape by the skin of their teeth. For example, in Insidious, the red faced demon isn't even defeated, they just happen to narrowly escape it, but another thing I love about it is when the hero has to face the threat once again, something which I think gives the film adaptations of The Shining and Doctor Sleep a leg up over their source material. Initially I didn't care for how the hotel didn't burn down at the end of The Shining in the film like it did in the book, but that gave Doctor Sleep the opportunity to actually use that powerful threat to defeat Rose the Hat, and throughout the runtime of Doctor Sleep as well, there's always that underlying tension that the hotel is lying in wait for Dan to return, and whether he did or not, it continues to haunt him even after trapping all the ghosts from it
A horror cliché I hate is the wise sage that shows up during the second act. This happens when the protagonists, tired of being tormented by a terrifying ghost/demon/monster, seek out a priest/rabbi/occultist/eccentric journalist to offer some advice. This one-dimensional, often condescending expert points at a goofy illustration in a dusty bestiary and says, "looks like a classic case of THIS ancient baddy". All the mystery around the monster is removed, and we get a long exposition dump from a character we aren't invested in. 'It Follows' is a noticeable departure from this, and it's awesome for it.
Ooh, I really want to see someone flip that first trope on its head. Like, I personally dont have anything against it, it's fine, it makes sense, it's creepy enough. The point of the trope is to make the protagonist feel alone in the fight, and it works well enough. However, imagine if the parents came into the room, saw the ghost, and then the ghost killed them. Bloody or not, I don't care, but the point is literally anyone who goes into that room dies except for the kid (and possibly other children?), and any kid that enters that room can't leave the house. That turns it from feeling alone to truly alone, and I dont know, I'd just like to see someone play with that. (Maybe I should play with that.)
Awesome idea--particularly the part where the room traps/kills people. I think the closest thing I've read to that is a book called The Room Upstairs by UK author I. R. Wright. It doesn't involve a child, but it's a fun/creepy read, and it's similar to your idea.
You just summarised the whole plot of the haunted house story I started working on lmao. Love your videos very much, I've been watching for 3 days now and taking notes and i absolutely love that your videos are not very long, short and straight to the point 👏🏻
Not sure if it's a trope, but I am sick and tired of horror stories with bland-as-bread cardboard cutout protagonists. Fuck "helping the audience put themselves in their shoes," if I don't have any reason to care about a character, I have no reason to be scared for them. I will defend haunted houses. You're completely right about the formula as provided being done to death, but I still feel like putting heavy emphasis on a certain setting and how its past haunts its present is wonderful fuel for good horror storytelling.
I love a haunted house even though I've seen it a million times. To me saying the haunted house is a tired cliche is like saying a murderer is a tired cliche, they're just so versatile
More specifically, the "suburban haunted house that a family moves into" is my problem. A movie like Don't Breathe (in which people break into a house that is "haunted" by a blind war vet) is much more engaging IMO
Thanks for this, Brandon. Re: #4 - I think one thing that the Scream franchise did well is that Ghostface couldn't care less what his watch showed. Recall when one of the main characters (I think his name was Randy) was attacked ON a college campus in the MIDDLE of the day with people around him. Talk about making me jump! That franchise was so successful because it got so many tropes and flipped them on their behinds. ;)
I agree with most of this. As someone who experiences very different feelings about circumstances in the light vs. the darkness, I will say, that is is realistic trope, in my opinion. I think that it should be explored more to see how we as writers can create dread during the day, but I’m not ma at that trope when it’s used, because I find it realistic (from personal experience) and also think that it allows for moments of reprieve where the reader can take a moment to catch their breath while we take a moment to learn about the character. It’s an overused trope, but I think can be used with originality despite that. I would say Lights Out is a great example of this. I have several issues with that film, but it takes the light v. dark trope and uses it in an original way, and as a narrative device that is quite brilliant. Ultimately, I would say that is a trope that would be okay, in my opinion to continue to explore, but perhaps used only if it drives the narrative in some way.
My number one pet peeve when it comes to the horse genre is the wasted potential of children characters. If and when a child character is brought into horror media they're not really an active threat as much as they are a decorative piece they look a lot scarier than half the time they act and I think that's a very wasted potential because there's a lot that is creepy about kids other than their general look. One thing that's interesting that I've always thought would be a cool concept for a horror movie but I'm not seeing like a lot of is the idea that kids are really set into their morality for them it's a very flexible concept I mean there's a reason that there's cliches like kids killing ants for fun of a horror movie an actual deranged child I feel like it set a really interesting storyline. Not even mention that this story can go both ways as being a very serious horror story or a very campy one. I feel like there's just a whole bunch of psychological benefits of a child being the main focus of a horror movie instead of them just being used for the poster art.
One horror movie I love was "It follows" because it was different and it didnt have all these cliches and tropes. It had a set of rules and if you follow them you will be safe. The thing follows you and you have to keep running. Where other horror movies, the ghost is already there but it wants to taunt them which gives no purpose to their personality.
The flip side on one of your points is the "important sacrifice". The mom or the girlfriend or the best friend who is just there so that their messy pointless sacrificial death and be mentioned a few times to make the hero cry. Meh.
Terminator 1 is a great example of a villain who's dangerous from start to finish. Kyle Reese had no chance to win so he willingly sacrificed himself for Sarah, even though T-800 wasn't done yet. The ending scene is the only time the T-800 touches her because if he did before, she'd be long dead.
It also has some real stakes. We know what the Terminator wants and why we should care. It's not "because it's evil" and it's not just about the protagonist saving her own life.
For me is "It wasn't paranormal, someone was using mirrors, a bunch of ropes and was disguised". I understand that the goal in those cases is to make a twist, but the problem is that it breaks the "promise to the reader" of a spiritual/paranormal/monster story. If I started to read/watch this story it was precisely because I like that stuff. In my opinion now the menace is more mundane and many times the way they try to justify how it was just a person making tricks seems to me hardly believable. For example last week I listened to an audibook of The Carpathian Castle (Jules Verne), I love the author and I get what was the message of this story (a critique of the superstitious townspeople), but the "excuses" of how some situations weren't spiritual are too complicated and was a bit farfetched.
You’re entitled to your tastes, of course. I don’t mind a twist like that unless it results in a “it was all in (person’s) mind” ending. As long as there was an actual struggle, I don’t mind a shift in the source of the horror.
I also hate the disposable unlikable victims prevalent in slashers where the deaths are unsympathetic, or where no one ever escapes because they're never a sense of suspense "will he or won't he get to her in time to save her" if he always does or never does, it's predictable
I think the daytime safety zone depends on how it's used. I think it's actually really effective if the plot takes place over the course of a single night and we only get respite when the sun comes out at the end. The trouble comes when it takes place over the course of several days where it can get dodgy.
Hey there Brandon. I am doubtful this comment will catch your interest, but I decided to make a challenge for myself. To make a horror story utilizing the tropes you listed, but in different ways. I should also point out that I am an amateur writer and not good with the horror genre. Also I apologize for my piss poor grammar Setting: The whole story takes place in a haunted villa or mansion. Think of one from the 1800's. It also has a large garden. It's not a maze, but big enough to get lost in. Characters: 5 characters. One of them is the owner of a new or old timely house. The rest are friends of the house owner or just happen to know via the other characters. And sure a love interest as well. Plot: The owner of the house has invited the other characters over for a house warming party. But it will be for a few days (a way to use the "No horror at night trope.) The house is captivating and welcoming at first, but eventually scary and weird things start happening in the span of a few days. One of the side characters spots a ghost in the house and calls the others whom all come running and do see the ghost. The owner of the mansion manages to fight, repels the ghost, and save the friend. The owner then explains the backstory of the mansion. That it once belonged to a rich family who all died over a span of time due to ghosts. (The time same amount of time that the characters are trapped in the house.) Suddenly one of the other characters points out a symbol that was left behind. The group tries to escape the mansion, but all of the doors and windows are perma locked. Even the glass windows are unbreakable. They can only wander the mansion and the garden mentioned before. As the group continues on they encounter more ghosts and spooks; losing some members to the ghost and the house. Interestingly none of the kills are made by the ghosts, but by accidents from the house. Some of the ghosts managed to get repelled. Each encounter having the same mark from before left behind or is already there. Just not noticed by the other characters. When they do notice then something happens. A door closes behind them, the lights go out, the garden some how tries to kill the friends and the owner or a scary noise is heard. (Here comes the going down the stairs trope.) The group goes down the stairs, but the owner is afraid to go, so the owner decides to go down last. Strangely the owner doesn't go down the stairs as much. Barely leaving the door within arm's reach. As the group goes down they encounter another ghost who scares them up the stairs. The owner is desperately trying to open the door, but can't seem to. The group notices another mark on the door. The ghost comes closer by the owner finally manages to get the door open. Almost everyone gets out, but one is dragged down the stairs and the door closes behind them. One by one the group is picked off including the owner till only one of the friends is left. The character can be a "final girl" if we want to add in one more horror trope. The last survivor seems to have finally found a way out of the mansion only to discover that the owner somehow survived. The last survivor at first questions how the owner managed to escape, but then realizes something. The owner was never in trouble. Through out the story the owner was always the last to go somewhere scary in the house or where the ghosts appeared. Almost as if the owner had anticipated them. Plot Twist: There are actually two types of ghosts. The ghosts that the group kept encountering were the previous owners of the house. In truth they were actually trying to warn the friends to get out of the house. All of the deaths were done by another ghost that caused all of the accidents and deaths within the mansion. And here is where the owner reveals another twist. I have three ideas of how this plot twist would go. 1. The owner was actually processed by the killer ghost. The owner had actually died before the events of the story and the killer ghost is simply using the owner's body as a vessel to trick the friends. Why is the ghost doing this? Because it is lonely and doesn't want wander the mansion by itself. When the killer ghost was alive he or she was rich, but lost all of his or her loved ones. Thus became too attached to the house because of all of the memories he or she had. Thus now brings in people to kill, so that they can never leave. 2. The owner is not processed or dead, but had made a deal with the killer ghost. The owner's motivation is that he or she came from a long line of a wealthy family. The current decedents all fought over the ownership of the mansion. The current owner who was last in line and was kept out of the family's wealth for much of his or her life; wanted to claim the mansion, thus summons the killer ghost and makes a deal to get the mansion, but the ghost must be satisfied every now and then with new victims. Also the owner has a victim complex where he or she feels that the world was against him or her, so this is some kind of bizarre revenge towards the world. Also the mansion somehow keeps the owner immortal through the lives lost by the victims. Their life force goes to the owner keeping him or her alive much longer. Can do something like the owner ages or youthens depending on the victims. Regardless the owner is kept alive. 3. There were no ghosts and the deaths were actually cleverly timed special effects that were done by the owner and some special effects artists who wanted to make a horror movie "reality tv show." Thus all of the ghosts were either actors or just projections. While the other spooks were just harmless traps that made it appear they were harmful. The friends are all compensated and become stars. This ending was thought of at the last minute as a final "Got You!" moment for the audience. So what do you think?
Hahaha that's awesome! It think ending #3 would fit best since you're doing a meta horror story and focusing so much on the tropes. The only major problem I had with your idea was when you said "Interestingly none of the kills are made by the ghosts, but by accidents from the house." I'm not a fan of accidental events killing off major characters (unless it's in the early setup). Very cool to see you engaging with these ideas though, especially the daytime danger. I'm wondering if you might consider another building other than the classic haunted house...
One of mine that fits in a lot of genres is when the solution would be as easy as just calling the police when the option is there, but they don't do that because DRAMA NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
In i am legend the book. time was just as much a antagonist in the novel. His watch dies and he gets lost in his work not realizing he has an hour worth of daylight left to get home.
I love how in the punch-counterpunch instead of cat-mouse section of the video and what should be done instead, he just casually describes Poltergeist. (Poltergeist uses a little of the cat-mouse at first, but then mostly switches over to punch-counterpunch)
Number 5 got me thinking about the hospital fight in Stranger Things season 5 - the two guys were flayed by the mindflayer and trying to kill Jonathan and Nancy but would pick them up and throw them, then walk around making menacing quips, just to do something else non-lethal to them, until finally Nancy or Jonathan was able to “kill” them (been a while since I’ve seen it. I just remember it being a dumb fight and only after , they turned into a quadrupedal monster the size of a dune buggy)
That reminds me of a pc game Torchlight 2, there's this little subplot about a lumbering station being overrun by werewolves, at night the werewolves picked off the workers one by one so they constantly have to move and put up barricades and in day time they can't leave the compound because the place gets swarmed by wild, hungry wolves that drawn by the blood trail left by the werewolves so there's no place nor time the victims can feel safe, as time goes on they grew weary and paranoid every time they heard a growl and howl whether if it's from a wild wolf or a werewolf and it makes a good horror movie setup, I'm disappointed on how horror movie these days rarely catch on to that kind of idea
Have you seen Monster House? It has something that did right. Spoilers. 1. The house attacks people during the day. 2. The house is actually a living entity rather than just a spooky house. 3. While the cops didn't believe the kids at first, the cops actually tried to fight back once the house revealed itself later on. 4. Constance was a meaningful character that got killed off. Even if she was the main antagonist, she was just misunderstood.
First trope is overrused because in my opinion it's too good for its own. There are plenty of real life cases of children not being believed before tragedy happens, like a stranger stalking or even entering the family's house and no one believes the child before something bad or nasty actually happen. I don't think the ghost or entity standing its ground instead of running away would convey the message about believing your kids stronger than if the entity runs away to strike at the worst time for the protagonist, as it would ruin the moral of the story, which is: be cautious and take your children seriously or at least try to understand them. It's a decent alternative, but it wouldn't be as strong, even if it could convey the same idea and could be original.
whenever i'm writing i usually take cliches and put a twist in them / flesh them out. e.g turning the ' no danger during the daytime ' in ' there's danger ONLY during daytime ' or the ' selectively dangerous villain ' trope in ' villain who likes to toy with their victims, give them a false sense of security or superiority by pretending they're weak only to show them how menacing they truly are if let '. i've got a couple of dozen examples. imo cliches in writing aren't supposed to be the main elements of your story but rather the template for them.
That first example you can find in various RL Stine stories (mainly Goosebumps and Haunting Hour) those were good shows and books but to be fair that trope has been overdone and it gets tiring. Though there were some stories where the parents did experience the horrors with the kids. Like the Horrorland story.
Lesson learned, writers! DON'T WRITE A GOOD STORY! Lmfao /s (cause, you know, having "meaningful" (which to me, means well-written and empathetic) characters is just a hallmark of actually good writing)
Awesome--love that you're trying something different with the concept! You might want to check out The Room Upstairs by Iain Rob Wright. Without spoiling, I'll just say you might get some inspiration from that book
Check out the animated movie "Monster House",not sure how its aged but i remember it being pretty well done, and i think its on Netflix or Hulu. But it involves a house that eats people who go on the property
Oh I have the perfect haunted house story that changes the cliche. A girl comes to her own house which she's lived in all her life and through supernatural causes, it transforms into a massive haunted house with a ghost family who believe the house is theirs, and it kinda is because of an epic twist. That's all I'll spoil for now.
I flip done well I don’t mind the cliche of the protagonist not being believed, as I think it mirrors reality and also adds to the fear; the sense of isolation. I think the natural reaction of a parent to their kid telling them there is a monster in the closet is to come in show them that there’s nothing in the closet , check under their bed, and then send them back to sleep. Or if a friend is telling you that they think they have been possessed by a demon I think most people would hear them out but then also gently try to ask them if they’ve talked to their psychiatrist about this.
The most upsetting scene in The Babadook, a haunted house supernatural horror movie, happens in a car and then outside of the car on a sunny Australian afternoon, in public, in broad daylight. The scare sequence in Mulholland Drive is notable for taking place in a sunny afternoon outside in public. Almost all of the horror scenes in Midsommar take place in the summertime sun in the middle of the day. The alien creature that kills people in Nope happens in wide, open spaces in sunny daylight. The scary opening scenes from both 28 Days Later and the remake of Crazies take place in broad daylight, and the majority of the scary scenes in the House on the Left, I Spit On Your Grave, The Hills Have Eyes, and Texas Chainsaw Massacre take place in the daytime. The final scary scenes in The Wicker Man, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Friday the 13th take place in the daytime. Daytime horror can be extremely effective. It can even be more effective that nighttime horror because you can't hide from it. The most intense scenes from War of the Worlds and A Quiet Place 2 take place in a public place with people dying left and right in the day, and the ending of Cloverfield, the most shocking and terrifying one, takes place after daybreak. A mass shooting scene in an elementary school in a Texan summer in an air conditioned school in thr middle of the day would be one of the most horrific scenes I can think possibly think up, and that would take place in the daytime. If it happens in the daytime, that makes it more intense than at nighttime. Movie makers need to realise that fact.
Another one for me is the ghosts/demons just love to use the same tricks in every. Single. Movie. For what reason is it always a toy, locking doors and lights? I get it’s supposed to have an impact on us but why would a ghost play around with toy cars or whatever and always first target the children? Also my favourite trick they use is that they see the entity in a reflective surface and when they turn around there is nothing.
The Haunting of Hill House from 2018 has the 2-story haunted house in the suburbs with the new family moving in. The escalating suspicious things are there as well as the shady previous owners. Atonement, suffering...check. However, it was still an amazing original story and very entertaining in my opinion.
One cliche I particularly can't stand is when a child is told by an adult "not to go in the cellar" without giving a reason, as if they expect kids to be perfect obedient little robots. Kids in real life can't get shut off. They are curious creatures. They literally want the answers to everything.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Yeah I can even use a non-scary example for that: In Disney's Encanto, when Bruno is mentioned and his name is basically hushed saying "Oh no, we don't talk about him!" If I was one of those kids I literally would want to know the whole time WHY Bruno isn't talked about. You can go on and on telling me about your other family members and what abilities they have, but the fact you're not telling me WHY YOU DONT TALK ABOUT BRUNO would drive me up the wall if I was a kid new to your town lol, you're basically giving a kid an invitation to find out becuz you simply don't have a made up concrete reason hahah
I like the idea of the killers (yes plural) being brutally efficient and practiced at hunting people down. And this is shown when their victims actually do everything “right”, make the choices that should, in theory, lead to their survival. And yet, the killers are so good at what they do, and so powerful in an animalistic way, that it doesn’t matter - they still win. For the main character to overcome them, he must rely on quick thinking, using the environment to his advantage, and ultimately turning the main antagonist’s own twisted ideology against him to expose his weakness to the rest of his disciples, who then cannibalize themselves in the ensuing power struggle. Now just to implement the idea…
In my horror novel the spirit of the little girl doesn't just haunt the house she can really be anywhere she wants.And for the important character dieing the mom dies,the dad dies,and the little girl that met the spirit dies.The little girl only kills the dad by choice (because he killed her and buried her on the hill were they built there house) the mother hangs herself and the little girl gets burned alive with Spirit by choice because she likes her too much.
I love that you have the spirit leaving the house. You can keep the house as an "anchor point" for the ghost while expanding outward. Plus, you can surprise us in more places. Best of luck with the novel!
Great examples, I agree with all. Here's one I've started to find particularly annoying: a character is laying in bed and hears a sound. They immediately sit up in bed and get a "Huh!?" look on their face, and I immediately start cringing because I know we're about to see 2-3 minutes of sloooooowly wandering around trying to investigate the source of the sound. It's especially egregious when the sound is something minor most people wouldn't even pay attention to, and is never repeated again. One wonders how long the character would have continued to scour the earth if the cat hadn't jump scared them.
Bruh I literally scream at the book or tv when the person isn’t really heard or not believed. I’m like, “BRO YOU LIVE NEXT TO A GRAVEYARD AUNT LINDA IT DEFINITELY HAPPENED.” I thought that was just me.
#1 reminded me of Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest. While not a horror movie, it still applies. When the Kraken is first introduced it swallows an entire ship in a fraction of a second. Then, at every subsequent Kraken attack, it takes its sweet time destroying the ships conveniently when important characters are on said ships. A slight blemish on an otherwise great movie
Hi there I’m currently writing a sci fi/ thriller and I guess it’s also horror. I have sort of a twist in the top 5. The protagonist mentions her mother about him encountering with beings from space. The mother just gets mad at him because she believes that all the comic books or sci fi magazines have poured his mind into ridiculous ideals.
How long does the mother continue to doubt him? A little doubt at the start is fine (and natural), but when it drags out, that's when it gets tedious. Try getting your protag to prove his point early on if that's possible. Make the mother a believer, and see if that event makes everything more interesting
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty we’ll just the early part of the story (which is just natural ) then eventual towards the end she now might recognize the situation that the protagonist is currently in. so if I may show you current text of the novel just to be sure it’s direction is going towards.
@@patricksleep9787 If it's only the early part, that works. Might want to make the mother a believer around the 20%-40% mark of your story. Most types of these stories will have the mother doubting the child until the late stages of the book, so you can keep your audience on their toes by making that happen sooner.
Edit: 3:08 never mind you made a good point and had come up with an actual solution. Old 2:09 I've fought people on unfair advantages before and I will tell you; night time is the most advantageous time to get the jump on someone and not day time. You are at the biggest advantage when you can see your target, when your target can't see you and have limited options. If you know your surroundings you can win pretty easy.
The horror cliche I hate is the possessed loved one. A trusted friend of family member's mind becomes possessed by a demon or microchip or alien and clandestinely turns on you. This may have been novel in 1978 with "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" but is the opposite of the "creative monster" and is worn out today.
I liked the subversion of #5 in the movie It Waits (2005-6), the creature seemed to leave the main character be to torture them seemingly finding pleasure in it like the Cenobites from Hellraiser which is another subversion of #5.
7:14 - this accurately describes Prey 2022 where the Predator is suddenly dumb during the final fight, is inept, falls for every trap and doesn't even know its own tech.
I'm not a fan of horror, but the scariest thing I've ever seen was called "The Thing in the Basement". You never saw The Thing; only the young protagonist could see it, and it was never explicitly clear whether it was real or just his imagination. It didn't run away when the father confronted it; the adults just couldn't see, hear, feel, or sense it, so naturally they assumed it didn't exist.
I love horror yet I’m not a horror writer, I’m a fiction writer who is writing my debut novel about a girl getting stuck in a world of her imagination, but she can’t remember a single thing about it, she has to find a locked-away god who is extremely powerful and prophetic, it’s like Percy Jackson meets a wrinkle in time (one of my favourite stories despite me not reading it) but when it comes to my stories, yeah it’s for a younger audience (I’m 16) but I still want it to feel threatening, scary and you can do that in just about anything. In my opinion, if your scared enough from what you read, who the villain is, how sick or sadistic or misunderstood (despite me hating that last trope) can we have villains that ARE evil, or EVIL and they also have TRAUMA but they justify the unjustifiable for their EVIL and they think their doing it for the greater GOOD? I think antagonists are MISUNDERSTOOD while villains are EVIL, and I think that I am right, they both can be scary but not all antagonists are villains, they might be their sidekick or work for themselves against the villain while also not being co-operative with the HERO/PROTAGONIST if you know what I mean. There are different types of villains but I eat up on the pure evil villains, close to pure evil is fine, but if their actions are both good and bad, they’re an anti-hero in my opinion. Of course this is my opinion, not everyone is going to have that opinion which is okay, I just like villains that possess FEAR or feed off of FEAR or STRESS or whatever they want (they can be attracted to anything from fear to love to hate in a way to break or prolong it) Thanks for listening to my tangent, but yes, I hate the trope where it’s like “no day/yes night” or “daddy, there’s a monster by the door.” “No there isn’t Lily, go to bed it’s okay.” OR “Rachel, you’re going crazy there is no demon in the house.” It’s just an ick I really hate 😅
One of my favorite movies, The Witch has much of the most horrible stuff happen in the middle of the day including the event that sets the story in motion.
Interesting idea calling Jurassic Park a haunted house story. I see it more as a monster movie/creature feature with predatory dinosaurs as the monsters. I hear what you are saying about haunted houses in general, very repetitive.The next most overused is the old mansion. The trope can be used in many more ways. I believe somebody once referred to Event Horizon as a haunted house movie in space.
I hate how in movies about wild animal attacks, the animal will be nowhere in sight while a character is making a sentimental speech. Who knew the best way to avoid dangerous creatures was to confess something about your past or say something profoundly emotional? It's very considerate of the wolves/bears/big cats/sharks/whatever to wait until the human characters have stated their honest feelings and/or moved the plot forward before launching the next attack.
Brahm Stoker builds the entire middle act of Dracula around saving Lucy. She is an immensely likable character and has 4 brave competent heroes protecting her and she still gets taken by the Count it's impactful and from then on none of the heroes really seem safe
I hate a lot of American Horror movies because of these same exact cliches and tropes. I just saw Evil Dead Rising and it felt like there was a checklist they needed to check. They got the elevator that fills with blood, check. They got the fly that flies around the evil body, check. You got to have the dumb child who opens the door, check. It's just so repetitive and not creative.
Actually watching this is helping me to what to add and what not to add to my story that I am working on. If you're wondering, the story I was inspired by Christine and The Car. However instead of a regular civilian car it's a 1980's Chevrolet Caprice police cruiser. The cruiser is possessed and kills people. I know, so exciting! But anyway, I am looking online for inspiration or just help with how I can improve the overall story. Got any ideas or advice for me?
Hmm...what specific area do you need to improve in? Also, I would read or watch Christine, then ask yourself what you can do differently in your own story.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I just need improvement in character development, death scenes, things like that. So, I really only have an idea like "This car goes around and kills people." I feel like it could be better, though. Because I really only have the car kill people by running them over. Christine and The Car had more creative ways of killing people. For characters, I really only have the main protagonist being the detective assigned to cases where criminals were killed in hit and run accidents. Do you think I need to improve these aspects? What should I do to really make this feel like a horror story? Right now it only seems like "these guys get killed." It just doesn't really feel like a horror story.
@@thatonewaspatyourpicnic7978 Find ways to connect your characters to the car. What I might do is give them backstory related to cars/driving. Maybe one character regrets killing an innocent person in a car accident. Maybe another had a parent who loved cars more than their child. Or maybe a character works in the auto industry and hates what they do. Give the characters something car-related that haunts them. Then try to weave the characters' stories together as everybody tries to overcome the past.
Hello Brandon. I penned a novel DEVIL TRIAL, available in wattpad. Follows one of your directives - important character die off. Theodoriss I personally liked and was opposite personality wise to another character she around.
@@TheKeithvidz Sweet. I just released a video on Short Story Plot Structure, so you might want to give it a look: ua-cam.com/video/STVF_EhRopI/v-deo.html
I remember reading that somewhere in Africa, the witching hour is 3 o'clock in the afternoon. I always imagine a scene where the wind suddenly dies down, the sun becomes unbearably hot, the birds and animals are silent. Nothing moves and there is no sound.
My opinion on such things is "Smartphone footage or it didn't happen"
@@theguybehindyou4762 ... they didn't claim that's something that actually happens my dude, they're proposing an idea for horror during the day
@@kilian-one-l I meant that some tropes are so easy to disprove that they just don't work at all, at least for me.
@@theguybehindyou4762 you never heard of suspension of disbelief? I'm not even sure which part you're talking about disproving. Like seriously, are you against any level of fantasy? Then what's even the point?
@@kilian-one-l Immersion. It's just my personal preference.
I think one horror trope I hate is when main characters are facing a serial killer or a zombie and they'll basically aim everywhere but the head and wonder why the zombie or killer won't die.
Haha--the opposite of this would be in The Walking Dead when everyone lands headshots with 100% accuracy.
Then they leave their weapon behind because no reason.
Not necessarily a horror trope I don't think. It happens in just about any movie with guns where nobody shoots main characters in the head.
Or, body shots somehow don't eventually stop what's supposed to be a normal human. Guy never bleeds out of goes septic.
Some excellent points, especially number 5. What I'd like to see more of is the parent/adult figure realising that if the kids/teens are genuinely terrified then they must have seen something genuinely terrifying. Especially if they're good, honest kids that aren't prone to making things up.
You're dead on. And such a scenario would definitely fit with the times since parents today are more concerned with keeping their kid safe/happy. It's time for Horror stories to reflect that.
Thanks.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Hey, I'm currently writing a horror novel - or novella, mini-novel idk. But I wanted to know if you think this would be a good idea for subverting the last cliché you mentioned;
A killer is stalking residents of a small town, but with every kill, they slowly get more exhausted - and it's exacerbated every time a victim fights back. So in the final fight, predator and prey both have to try and trap the other - the villain facing physical exhaustion, and the hero pushing their mental/emotional limit. So instead of a simple cat and mouse game, it's more a question of who breaks first.
@@Emerald501st Yeah that works because you’re actively showing the villain being worn down over the course of the story. As long as there’s a logical reason for the villain being less dangerous, that can work
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Thanks
I agree with everything. Especially the daytime deal. I am from India and as a child, I used to watch a horror TV serial which was a favourite for everybody at the time. My earliest memory of terror was one particular episode where a bunch of friends get stuck in a large bungalow and start getting killed one by one. Eventually one of them makes it out, through the night, is found by a man who takes him to his place. This man's cottage is in the middle of nowhere and overlooks a corn field. Just when this guy thought he was safe and resting at this new place, sipping tea on the man's porch, the tractor starts running on its own in the field right in the middle of a dry, sunny afternoon and the scarecrow starts turning to face the guy. The evil had apparently followed him outside the house. That scene has stuck with me. It was the creepiest! I have since craved more stories with scenes during the daytime because the scope is endless. Some scenes in Insidious happen during the day. That was nice for a change.
Yeah I just watched insidous last year--definitely isn't afraid to use scares during daylight hours
The Woman in Black has a brief but pleasantly creepy daylight scene that stuck with me.
Also from India, and I loved horror tv serials. One particular episode I remember was a group of people stuck in a building with a witch killing them and iirc the trigger was always light. It's the light that got them killed. And once the sun came up, they thought they were safe but the witch was waiting for them.
I definitely feel ya on the selectively dangerous killer. I hate when movies have the heroine running as fast as she can through alleys and buildings but every time she looks back the killer (Who just brutally and efficiently murdered all of her friends) is just sauntering menacingly after her like he's grandma going up stairs with a walker. And the heroine will inevitably run into a building, lock the door, and turn around to see he's apparently just teleported into the building ahead of her like he's Kurt Wagner. It's so lazy!
Can't stand it! And it's not limited to the horror genre. I was watching an sci-fi/action movie the other night with the same issue.
While I agree #5 is definitely an overused cliché, I tend to believe it's more about isolating the victim, than it is about the demon "running away." If the parent - the one person a child trusts to believe and protect them above all else - doubts their word, the child withdraws emotionally, making it that much easier for the demon/entity to get in their head, break down their spirit, make the child believe *they* are the only one who cares about them, and eventually corrupt them.
Yep, makes total sense from a psych standpoint. Shame that it's been overused to the point that it doesn't have as much impact as it should
The issue is execution of the cliche. Most horror stories are lazy with character development and don’t highlight this more nuanced take that you mentioned, so it just comes across as tedious. With proper emphasis on character/family dynamics, this cliche wouldn’t feel so washed up.
Ironically, the best use of that variation is one where the villain really can't get to the victims most of the time: _A Nightmare on Elm Street._
Think about how inattentive the average white suburban parent is, and how many terrible things happen to kids every year that just get ignored by their families-it's a concept that works well when it's done with conscious intent.
Two more cliches:
1. Car won't start
2. No cellphone service
Phones are especially difficult to write with when making modern horror, but it makes it interesting to have a work around as well
I hate it when Something extremely traumatizing happens and the characters act Like its nothing. The Main character Sees His best friend being torn apart with a chainsaw. Their reaction: "Oh no. Anyway..."
Thats why I was impressed when I watched Jeepers Creepers. I Like that they took the time to actually show how traumatized the main character was after seeing all those corpses, instead of throwing the next action scene in our faces right away.
Ah, that's a great one--good call!
That's the worst.
Hi there! I'm a horror writer and I have to say that I agree with mostly everything you said. I'm trying to put new twists on cliches that have been worn out. The book I'm writing now is about a group of friends who are lured to go to a haunted house where a woman died. They find out that the site is where a malevolent force lives and is a part of something a lot bigger than the haunted house itself. The characters are really smart and I feel like I've made them lovable enough that they can start being harmed by the malevolent force know as, The Hypnotist.
Sounds like a good start! Interested in seeing how you steer clear of the major haunted house cliches
@Caitlyn Carvalho It really depends on how how the writer/director portrays the trope and how the audience interprets it. A skilled creator can draw meaning and impact from tropes that might otherwise cause the audience to groan. Still, some audience members will hate a trope no matter how it's used.
As for the Omen, it's been forever since I last saw it (like 2010-ish), so I can't really say
@Caitlyn Carvalho I always thought this trope was, in essence, critical of sexual violence and drew fear from the fact that it is such a disgusting thing
I hate the "unnecessary false jump scare" you find to often in horror movies today
Yeah, a lot of modern horror movies try to take themselves seriously, and then they shoehorn in a jump scare, which makes no sense to me
False jumpscare are actually sometimes really useful even if they seem unseccary at the moment.
They may used to anchor some emotion and tag them to your character and audience.
Ex:- "Dave, with his noodle like shaky legs, bravely venture to the kitchen in Brian's bunglow. His throat was dry like he ate sand. He looked at his right, a shadow menacingly glancing at him. It was some sort of wierd entity with triangular face. There, was some light coming from between the face. There was hole in the face.
Dave, took a deep gasp and lost his hold the glass... the face broke...
It was just Brian standing behind him, chafing his eye."
This a paragraph from my novel, though I have changed the character names and scene and many other details.
Here, Dave may attach "being scared" to "Brian and his bunglow" etc.
Which later can be used to swerve and direct suspicions of audience and main characters.
They are useful, especially when you can add some deep psychological meaning to them, which is only intelligible to subconscious mind. Not the conscious one.
What do you think?
@@raghvendrasinghsengar8360 I don't mind them in books because its all part of the show don't tell concept. in books you have only words as a tool to direct your readers where you want them to go. in movies you have the advantage of sight and sound and you can show them what you want. in horror movies of today they are overdone and need to go.
@@PhantomMagician1846 Yep, I completely agree with you. Movies have an extra edge as they have sound, visuals, etc. While books and written text can be like a plain canvas for the read, they may just paint whatever they want, but, it is you, who is giving them aid to.
So, yeah you are absolutely correct. Still, that is not what I meant. I meant that we, writers, should use jumpscare, not not as jumpscare, rather we should use them to anchor the emotions of the reader to certain objects, places, persons or anything else.
What do you think?
@@raghvendrasinghsengar8360 I agree 100% with that.
#1 probably starts when a writer doesn’t think into the future of their important character and realizes they are about to be killed so has the antagonist hesitate or miss.
Exactly. Gotta give those important characters some plot armor.
“Mommy, there’s a ghost in my room.”
“You said what?!”
“There’s a ghost in my room.”
“Oh HELL NO. Boys! Get your shit! We’re goin to grandma’s! I said pack those damn bags!!”
And the next great horror-comedy is born!
Lol, and the ghost chases them cuz they're set on this one child for some reason. Like posses their fave stuffed doll.
@@realimereads2707 Haha--and then have the other kid get hurt feelings because nobody wants to possess him
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty
He keeps throwing himself out there to try and get possessed and the ghosts just go around him.
@@joshuashepard583 Haha I feel like this is turning into a sneaky-good critique of social media culture
Actual vampires AREN'T limited to the night. Dracula was perfectly capable of walking in the sun. The whole sun crap is purely a movie invention. It didn't exist in any of the original stories. It was created solely as a way to differentiate Nosferatu from Dracula due to the makers of the former not having permission to make Dracula. Ever since then idiots think vampires are hurt/killed by the sun, including Dracula, and it makes me want to snack people.
Agreed, but it's become such a central part of vampire lore that it's pretty much the standard now. Scott Snyder's American Vampire comics jump to mind as an exception to the "rule" though
And Dracula could only go into buildings if he was invited, he can't go over running water, like a bridge over a river, and if you placed a rose on his coffin he can't get out until it dies. I wish that stuff showed up again.
@@kylamamber9080 The rose concept is very cool, I'm surprised we don't see it more often. In a way, it's almost as though Thor left his hammer on the coffin.
I can think of a good examples of vampires not fearing sunlight.. Bram Stokers Dracula. I'm sure there are more but I can't remember them. I've written a vampire series that has my character walk through sunlight, not be afraid of religious symbols (always thought that one was funny for some reason). I've learned its MY character and as long as he or she is going by the rules I set up it should be fine.
I have a vampire character in my book who isn't harmed by sunlight, he just hates it with a passion. I haven't really fleshed it out but it has to do with his mortal life and a deep-rooted hatred for all things life affirming. He is the most monstrous character in the book.
One recent cliche I absolute hate is when the heroes do everything right and win, but at the last scene is revealed that the villain won without any explanations. To me this sounds like lazy writing, sequel bating, and a bad attempt at shocking.
I know this is one of your older videos, but it's interesting to note. I do think the points made do hold up, as a consumer who enjoys mostly suspense/horror related stories. One key takeaway I've learnt about what makes horror good is if it stays within the unknown of the character we're viewing. Similar to the saying "humans fear the unknown"; what's the horror if we know what's beyond it? Suspense builds the horror effect, not the other way around. What horrors lie beyond the darkness...is up to our mind to interpret. Then comes the reaction.
"Suspense builds the horror effect" is so critical and doesn't get mentioned enough in regards to horror writing. *What could be* is always scarier than *what is*.
I hate the cliche of the moms who actually believe that there is something wrong in the house and that maybe the kid is right when he said that there was someone below their bed last night while the dad play the role of a cigar smoking, golf playing cycnic. Worst is when the dads ignore the protestations with the usual lines like "I think you are just stressed out with the moving. Why dont you take the kids with you to your mother's and rest for few days?"
The worst part of the haunted house is the lame door shutting. Such a cheap trick, not scary at all, just stalling ...
I HATE the horror movie with the teenage child angry at their parents for something that happened in the past. The teenager is hostile, quiet, isolated with headphones, angry, answers with an attitude and it’s so annoying. But the writers give the angry kid a backstory so the audience can understand and relate. And at the end of the movie, the family beats the honor or evil and the angry kid becomes lovey, reuniting with the family. Redundant.
I guess the most used trope is the child being right all along, that they've seen monsters and ghost etc. And that no one believes him. And I want to see villains thst are difficult to defeat. 😎🤘
Yeah, I'm fine with the child seeing things, but the "no one believes him" part is what irritates me. It always gets dragged out the same way
@@WriterBrandonMcNultyMost adults *don't* believe children who've seen apparitions--in fact, most don't believe *adults* who've seen them, either. Same for other classes of paranormal activity, and UFOs.
I grew up in a haunted house. Luckily, all of my many brothers and sisters had encounters with the spirits as well.
One solution is to have the child bypass the parent somehow in order to get help...or enlist the parent in a sneaky way.
I have a kinda haunting house i liked. It wasnt a house, it was under a bridge. It was in a torchwood episode (a doctor who spinnoff) called ghost machine, it let you see the past. And one of the main character owen used it under a bridge and saw the murder of a woman, lizzie, and it was one of the best haunting ghost things ive seen.
#2 can be applied to action films as well, particularly ones involving military themes. Ususlly you see some unamed soldier get popped and its up to the guy who's been built up to be the hero or protagonist to save eveyone.
Like imagine a war film where characters are killed off at random points during combat scenes regardless of how much development they have had up until that point.
#3 I've noticed with a lot of the haunted houses or really horror in general, it's always upper middle class or higher. You never see a haunted apartment or trailer park where the people cannot afford to just move, or that affects their neighbors as well. It also wraps up the whole financial stress into it. They hinted at financial stress in movies like Amityville Horror, The Tall Man, and Money Pit, but it's usually softballed.
I’m sick to death of the final girl
Right? It's like the "chosen one" in fantasy stories
same here
Same, and you can always pick them out.
Sometimes the daytime can be scarier than night, like It being seen across the street.
As a fan of Star Trek TOS, I laughed when you talked about only unimportant characters dying. Red shirts.
Funny thing. Villains often don't want to kill the hero. They would rather to have a little chat instead. Meanwhile, the hero strikes without hesitation, like a viper. No chit chat. So, who is the real villain?
Selectively dangerous?...reminds me of the Decepticon Blackout in Transformers wiping out an entire military base by himself, and then his main weapon is like 1/10 the power in the climactic battle.
Exactly. Happens way too often toward the end of a story.
I could see if the heroes worked to injure the villain prior to the finale, but usually its the writers who injure the villains.
I almost forgot that one , lol. But that is s good example too. In the first movie he lands in a military base, all the soldiers are shooting at him and he is literally blowing up tanks and jets in one shot.....but at the end of the movie the soldier kills him with one crutch shot ??
Adding to the selectively dangerous villain: when the monster that has been slashing through anyone it's come across finally is confronted by the main character and, instead of slashing through them, the monster picks them up and throws or backslaps them across the room, which of course doesn't incapacitate or seriously injure the main character at all.
For me the haunted trope often doesn't work because you wonder why they bother stubbornly staying there for more than a few days and not send in builders to knock down and reconstruct parts.
When this trope is handled best IMO is often when it's very temporary accomodation. I'm a lover of Sword & Sorcery and gamebooks and quite a few occasions you'll have a character who will have to make the decision to either brave the outside conditions where in dark, freezing and/or stormy conditions while very tired you are vulnerable to animals or the environment killing you. Or you could duck into this abandoned building for a few hours and take the risk of ghosts or demons disturbing your rest.
Frame it as a legitimate choice where they're weighing up the risks, and then there's actually tension in not knowing if they've picked the right option.
You nailed it. If the house is haunted, at least try to leave. The movie Sinister did this, and the hauntings followed the family, which works much better in terms of logic
I writing a script about a guy moving into a haunted house, but the monster is the main character’s past.
Nice, best of luck with it!
That sounds like a cool idea for a movie. We need some fresh ideas in Horror movies today.
A haunting in Connecticut was similar to that wasn’t it I could be wrong
A haunting in Connecticut was similar to that wasn’t it I could be wrong
Endlessly annoying are the protagonists and friends who never even think to pick up something for a weapon while being stalked by the monster.
i love that your videos are concise. really great as somebody who's trying to write a book for the very first time and is trying to accumulate as much info as possible to make it great. keep doing what you're doing ❤
Thrilled to hear the videos are helping. Thanks!
Jurassic park is a haunted house story is one of the craziest things I've heard, but I see where you're coming from.
Re: haunted houses.
I was ready to throw hands, but then it just boiled down to *one* type of haunted house story that I agree is overused.
Where are the stories about breaking into a haunted house just to explore it? The ones where a traveler lost in the woods needs to take shelter, and that creaky old cabin will do? Where are the stories where the house itself isn't the focal point? If you've seen the film version of Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark, there *is* a haunted house, but it's not the main setting, nor is it used in the way these "family moves in, bad things happen, deal with the ghost" movies go. Where are the stories where it *seems* the house is haunted, but something else is actually up?
There's so much more you can do with it.
Haunted house horror is my comfort, but I agree that this pattern with them is overdone and needs to be retired.
1:40 Or maybe the parents being able to see the ghost/demon, but the kid isn't. That would be different.
YEEEAAAHH. I like that. Roll with that idea next time you're starting a story.
With number one, one thing I love in horror is when the villain is consistently strong, especially if it's a story where the heroes don't necessarily beat the villain, and instead escape by the skin of their teeth. For example, in Insidious, the red faced demon isn't even defeated, they just happen to narrowly escape it, but another thing I love about it is when the hero has to face the threat once again, something which I think gives the film adaptations of The Shining and Doctor Sleep a leg up over their source material. Initially I didn't care for how the hotel didn't burn down at the end of The Shining in the film like it did in the book, but that gave Doctor Sleep the opportunity to actually use that powerful threat to defeat Rose the Hat, and throughout the runtime of Doctor Sleep as well, there's always that underlying tension that the hotel is lying in wait for Dan to return, and whether he did or not, it continues to haunt him even after trapping all the ghosts from it
A horror cliché I hate is the wise sage that shows up during the second act. This happens when the protagonists, tired of being tormented by a terrifying ghost/demon/monster, seek out a priest/rabbi/occultist/eccentric journalist to offer some advice. This one-dimensional, often condescending expert points at a goofy illustration in a dusty bestiary and says, "looks like a classic case of THIS ancient baddy". All the mystery around the monster is removed, and we get a long exposition dump from a character we aren't invested in.
'It Follows' is a noticeable departure from this, and it's awesome for it.
Vincent d'Onofrio definitely can't match Jason Miller or Max von Sidow on that front. I guess Zelda Rubinstein could go either way.
Ooh, I really want to see someone flip that first trope on its head. Like, I personally dont have anything against it, it's fine, it makes sense, it's creepy enough. The point of the trope is to make the protagonist feel alone in the fight, and it works well enough. However, imagine if the parents came into the room, saw the ghost, and then the ghost killed them. Bloody or not, I don't care, but the point is literally anyone who goes into that room dies except for the kid (and possibly other children?), and any kid that enters that room can't leave the house. That turns it from feeling alone to truly alone, and I dont know, I'd just like to see someone play with that. (Maybe I should play with that.)
Awesome idea--particularly the part where the room traps/kills people. I think the closest thing I've read to that is a book called The Room Upstairs by UK author I. R. Wright. It doesn't involve a child, but it's a fun/creepy read, and it's similar to your idea.
Damn, what's with the Manson stare??
You just summarised the whole plot of the haunted house story I started working on lmao.
Love your videos very much, I've been watching for 3 days now and taking notes and i absolutely love that your videos are not very long, short and straight to the point 👏🏻
Not sure if it's a trope, but I am sick and tired of horror stories with bland-as-bread cardboard cutout protagonists. Fuck "helping the audience put themselves in their shoes," if I don't have any reason to care about a character, I have no reason to be scared for them.
I will defend haunted houses. You're completely right about the formula as provided being done to death, but I still feel like putting heavy emphasis on a certain setting and how its past haunts its present is wonderful fuel for good horror storytelling.
I love a haunted house even though I've seen it a million times. To me saying the haunted house is a tired cliche is like saying a murderer is a tired cliche, they're just so versatile
More specifically, the "suburban haunted house that a family moves into" is my problem. A movie like Don't Breathe (in which people break into a house that is "haunted" by a blind war vet) is much more engaging IMO
If you are into reading Horror I would recommend books by Darcy Coats. She writes really cool Haunted House Stories
Thanks for this, Brandon. Re: #4 - I think one thing that the Scream franchise did well is that Ghostface couldn't care less what his watch showed. Recall when one of the main characters (I think his name was Randy) was attacked ON a college campus in the MIDDLE of the day with people around him. Talk about making me jump! That franchise was so successful because it got so many tropes and flipped them on their behinds. ;)
Yeah! I love it when horror stories show awareness for genre tropes like that. Another one that jumps to mind is Cabin in the Woods
I agree with most of this. As someone who experiences very different feelings about circumstances in the light vs. the darkness, I will say, that is is realistic trope, in my opinion. I think that it should be explored more to see how we as writers can create dread during the day, but I’m not ma at that trope when it’s used, because I find it realistic (from personal experience) and also think that it allows for moments of reprieve where the reader can take a moment to catch their breath while we take a moment to learn about the character. It’s an overused trope, but I think can be used with originality despite that. I would say Lights Out is a great example of this. I have several issues with that film, but it takes the light v. dark trope and uses it in an original way, and as a narrative device that is quite brilliant. Ultimately, I would say that is a trope that would be okay, in my opinion to continue to explore, but perhaps used only if it drives the narrative in some way.
Haven't seen Lights Out. I'll have to give it a shot one of these days
My number one pet peeve when it comes to the horse genre is the wasted potential of children characters. If and when a child character is brought into horror media they're not really an active threat as much as they are a decorative piece they look a lot scarier than half the time they act and I think that's a very wasted potential because there's a lot that is creepy about kids other than their general look. One thing that's interesting that I've always thought would be a cool concept for a horror movie but I'm not seeing like a lot of is the idea that kids are really set into their morality for them it's a very flexible concept I mean there's a reason that there's cliches like kids killing ants for fun of a horror movie an actual deranged child I feel like it set a really interesting storyline. Not even mention that this story can go both ways as being a very serious horror story or a very campy one. I feel like there's just a whole bunch of psychological benefits of a child being the main focus of a horror movie instead of them just being used for the poster art.
I like your idea... It reminds me of that one episode of The Twilight Zone were the spoiled kid can make anyone he doesn't like disappear at will
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty"I'll wish you into the cornfield, Mister!"
One horror movie I love was "It follows" because it was different and it didnt have all these cliches and tropes. It had a set of rules and if you follow them you will be safe. The thing follows you and you have to keep running. Where other horror movies, the ghost is already there but it wants to taunt them which gives no purpose to their personality.
The flip side on one of your points is the "important sacrifice". The mom or the girlfriend or the best friend who is just there so that their messy pointless sacrificial death and be mentioned a few times to make the hero cry. Meh.
Im writing a story and ive been watching lots of videos on whats good and bad and ive got most things nailed but i feel my story isnt very good
Terminator 1 is a great example of a villain who's dangerous from start to finish. Kyle Reese had no chance to win so he willingly sacrificed himself for Sarah, even though T-800 wasn't done yet. The ending scene is the only time the T-800 touches her because if he did before, she'd be long dead.
Yep, that's part of the reason why that movie is an absolute classic
It also has some real stakes. We know what the Terminator wants and why we should care. It's not "because it's evil" and it's not just about the protagonist saving her own life.
@@ThomasPalm-w5y yep. And we've seen how seemingly invincible he was when he took bullets like nothing. Great case of showing vs telling
For me is "It wasn't paranormal, someone was using mirrors, a bunch of ropes and was disguised". I understand that the goal in those cases is to make a twist, but the problem is that it breaks the "promise to the reader" of a spiritual/paranormal/monster story. If I started to read/watch this story it was precisely because I like that stuff. In my opinion now the menace is more mundane and many times the way they try to justify how it was just a person making tricks seems to me hardly believable. For example last week I listened to an audibook of The Carpathian Castle (Jules Verne), I love the author and I get what was the message of this story (a critique of the superstitious townspeople), but the "excuses" of how some situations weren't spiritual are too complicated and was a bit farfetched.
Ah, good call! I hate when the magic gets sucked out of a "supernatural" story
You’re entitled to your tastes, of course. I don’t mind a twist like that unless it results in a “it was all in (person’s) mind” ending. As long as there was an actual struggle, I don’t mind a shift in the source of the horror.
Depends on how it's handled works great for Scooby Doo
Did Daphne Blake type this post?
Sounds like someone doesn't like Scooby Doo.
I also hate the disposable unlikable victims prevalent in slashers where the deaths are unsympathetic, or where no one ever escapes because they're never a sense of suspense "will he or won't he get to her in time to save her" if he always does or never does, it's predictable
Gee, Riddler, dontcha think we oughta take Batman's Utility Belt before we walk away and leave him in this ludicrously over contrived death trap?
I think the daytime safety zone depends on how it's used. I think it's actually really effective if the plot takes place over the course of a single night and we only get respite when the sun comes out at the end. The trouble comes when it takes place over the course of several days where it can get dodgy.
Hey there Brandon. I am doubtful this comment will catch your interest, but I decided to make a challenge for myself. To make a horror story utilizing the tropes you listed, but in different ways. I should also point out that I am an amateur writer and not good with the horror genre. Also I apologize for my piss poor grammar
Setting:
The whole story takes place in a haunted villa or mansion. Think of one from the 1800's. It also has a large garden. It's not a maze, but big enough to get lost in.
Characters:
5 characters. One of them is the owner of a new or old timely house. The rest are friends of the house owner or just happen to know via the other characters. And sure a love interest as well.
Plot:
The owner of the house has invited the other characters over for a house warming party. But it will be for a few days (a way to use the "No horror at night trope.) The house is captivating and welcoming at first, but eventually scary and weird things start happening in the span of a few days. One of the side characters spots a ghost in the house and calls the others whom all come running and do see the ghost. The owner of the mansion manages to fight, repels the ghost, and save the friend. The owner then explains the backstory of the mansion. That it once belonged to a rich family who all died over a span of time due to ghosts. (The time same amount of time that the characters are trapped in the house.) Suddenly one of the other characters points out a symbol that was left behind. The group tries to escape the mansion, but all of the doors and windows are perma locked. Even the glass windows are unbreakable. They can only wander the mansion and the garden mentioned before.
As the group continues on they encounter more ghosts and spooks; losing some members to the ghost and the house. Interestingly none of the kills are made by the ghosts, but by accidents from the house. Some of the ghosts managed to get repelled. Each encounter having the same mark from before left behind or is already there. Just not noticed by the other characters. When they do notice then something happens. A door closes behind them, the lights go out, the garden some how tries to kill the friends and the owner or a scary noise is heard. (Here comes the going down the stairs trope.) The group goes down the stairs, but the owner is afraid to go, so the owner decides to go down last. Strangely the owner doesn't go down the stairs as much. Barely leaving the door within arm's reach. As the group goes down they encounter another ghost who scares them up the stairs. The owner is desperately trying to open the door, but can't seem to. The group notices another mark on the door. The ghost comes closer by the owner finally manages to get the door open. Almost everyone gets out, but one is dragged down the stairs and the door closes behind them.
One by one the group is picked off including the owner till only one of the friends is left. The character can be a "final girl" if we want to add in one more horror trope. The last survivor seems to have finally found a way out of the mansion only to discover that the owner somehow survived. The last survivor at first questions how the owner managed to escape, but then realizes something. The owner was never in trouble. Through out the story the owner was always the last to go somewhere scary in the house or where the ghosts appeared. Almost as if the owner had anticipated them.
Plot Twist:
There are actually two types of ghosts. The ghosts that the group kept encountering were the previous owners of the house. In truth they were actually trying to warn the friends to get out of the house. All of the deaths were done by another ghost that caused all of the accidents and deaths within the mansion. And here is where the owner reveals another twist.
I have three ideas of how this plot twist would go.
1. The owner was actually processed by the killer ghost. The owner had actually died before the events of the story and the killer ghost is simply using the owner's body as a vessel to trick the friends. Why is the ghost doing this? Because it is lonely and doesn't want wander the mansion by itself. When the killer ghost was alive he or she was rich, but lost all of his or her loved ones. Thus became too attached to the house because of all of the memories he or she had. Thus now brings in people to kill, so that they can never leave.
2. The owner is not processed or dead, but had made a deal with the killer ghost. The owner's motivation is that he or she came from a long line of a wealthy family. The current decedents all fought over the ownership of the mansion. The current owner who was last in line and was kept out of the family's wealth for much of his or her life; wanted to claim the mansion, thus summons the killer ghost and makes a deal to get the mansion, but the ghost must be satisfied every now and then with new victims. Also the owner has a victim complex where he or she feels that the world was against him or her, so this is some kind of bizarre revenge towards the world. Also the mansion somehow keeps the owner immortal through the lives lost by the victims. Their life force goes to the owner keeping him or her alive much longer. Can do something like the owner ages or youthens depending on the victims. Regardless the owner is kept alive.
3. There were no ghosts and the deaths were actually cleverly timed special effects that were done by the owner and some special effects artists who wanted to make a horror movie "reality tv show." Thus all of the ghosts were either actors or just projections. While the other spooks were just harmless traps that made it appear they were harmful. The friends are all compensated and become stars. This ending was thought of at the last minute as a final "Got You!" moment for the audience.
So what do you think?
Hahaha that's awesome! It think ending #3 would fit best since you're doing a meta horror story and focusing so much on the tropes. The only major problem I had with your idea was when you said "Interestingly none of the kills are made by the ghosts, but by accidents from the house." I'm not a fan of accidental events killing off major characters (unless it's in the early setup). Very cool to see you engaging with these ideas though, especially the daytime danger. I'm wondering if you might consider another building other than the classic haunted house...
One of mine that fits in a lot of genres is when the solution would be as easy as just calling the police when the option is there, but they don't do that because DRAMA NEEDS TO HAPPEN.
UGH.
"Let's split up!" I fucking hate it! :D
In i am legend the book. time was just as much a antagonist in the novel. His watch dies and he gets lost in his work not realizing he has an hour worth of daylight left to get home.
I love how in the punch-counterpunch instead of cat-mouse section of the video and what should be done instead, he just casually describes Poltergeist. (Poltergeist uses a little of the cat-mouse at first, but then mostly switches over to punch-counterpunch)
When the girl falls and cant get up
Yes! Convenient/inconvenient falls are a joke. At least have a villain or somebody hold them down
Number 5 got me thinking about the hospital fight in Stranger Things season 5 - the two guys were flayed by the mindflayer and trying to kill Jonathan and Nancy but would pick them up and throw them, then walk around making menacing quips, just to do something else non-lethal to them, until finally Nancy or Jonathan was able to “kill” them (been a while since I’ve seen it. I just remember it being a dumb fight and only after , they turned into a quadrupedal monster the size of a dune buggy)
That reminds me of a pc game Torchlight 2, there's this little subplot about a lumbering station being overrun by werewolves, at night the werewolves picked off the workers one by one so they constantly have to move and put up barricades and in day time they can't leave the compound because the place gets swarmed by wild, hungry wolves that drawn by the blood trail left by the werewolves so there's no place nor time the victims can feel safe, as time goes on they grew weary and paranoid every time they heard a growl and howl whether if it's from a wild wolf or a werewolf and it makes a good horror movie setup, I'm disappointed on how horror movie these days rarely catch on to that kind of idea
Have you seen Monster House? It has something that did right. Spoilers.
1. The house attacks people during the day.
2. The house is actually a living entity rather than just a spooky house.
3. While the cops didn't believe the kids at first, the cops actually tried to fight back once the house revealed itself later on.
4. Constance was a meaningful character that got killed off. Even if she was the main antagonist, she was just misunderstood.
First trope is overrused because in my opinion it's too good for its own. There are plenty of real life cases of children not being believed before tragedy happens, like a stranger stalking or even entering the family's house and no one believes the child before something bad or nasty actually happen.
I don't think the ghost or entity standing its ground instead of running away would convey the message about believing your kids stronger than if the entity runs away to strike at the worst time for the protagonist, as it would ruin the moral of the story, which is: be cautious and take your children seriously or at least try to understand them.
It's a decent alternative, but it wouldn't be as strong, even if it could convey the same idea and could be original.
Good take on this.
whenever i'm writing i usually take cliches and put a twist in them / flesh them out. e.g turning the ' no danger during the daytime ' in ' there's danger ONLY during daytime ' or the ' selectively dangerous villain ' trope in ' villain who likes to toy with their victims, give them a false sense of security or superiority by pretending they're weak only to show them how menacing they truly are if let '. i've got a couple of dozen examples.
imo cliches in writing aren't supposed to be the main elements of your story but rather the template for them.
That first example you can find in various RL Stine stories (mainly Goosebumps and Haunting Hour) those were good shows and books but to be fair that trope has been overdone and it gets tiring. Though there were some stories where the parents did experience the horrors with the kids. Like the Horrorland story.
When all stories have at least one meaningful character killed, that becomes a cliche in and of itself.
True, anything can become a cliche if done often enough
Lesson learned, writers! DON'T WRITE A GOOD STORY! Lmfao /s (cause, you know, having "meaningful" (which to me, means well-written and empathetic) characters is just a hallmark of actually good writing)
In one of my haunted house story, the house itself eats people!
Awesome--love that you're trying something different with the concept! You might want to check out The Room Upstairs by Iain Rob Wright. Without spoiling, I'll just say you might get some inspiration from that book
0
Check out the animated movie "Monster House",not sure how its aged but i remember it being pretty well done, and i think its on Netflix or Hulu. But it involves a house that eats people who go on the property
Oh I have the perfect haunted house story that changes the cliche. A girl comes to her own house which she's lived in all her life and through supernatural causes, it transforms into a massive haunted house with a ghost family who believe the house is theirs, and it kinda is because of an epic twist. That's all I'll spoil for now.
I flip done well I don’t mind the cliche of the protagonist not being believed, as I think it mirrors reality and also adds to the fear; the sense of isolation. I think the natural reaction of a parent to their kid telling them there is a monster in the closet is to come in show them that there’s nothing in the closet , check under their bed, and then send them back to sleep. Or if a friend is telling you that they think they have been possessed by a demon I think most people would hear them out but then also gently try to ask them if they’ve talked to their psychiatrist about this.
The most upsetting scene in The Babadook, a haunted house supernatural horror movie, happens in a car and then outside of the car on a sunny Australian afternoon, in public, in broad daylight. The scare sequence in Mulholland Drive is notable for taking place in a sunny afternoon outside in public. Almost all of the horror scenes in Midsommar take place in the summertime sun in the middle of the day. The alien creature that kills people in Nope happens in wide, open spaces in sunny daylight. The scary opening scenes from both 28 Days Later and the remake of Crazies take place in broad daylight, and the majority of the scary scenes in the House on the Left, I Spit On Your Grave, The Hills Have Eyes, and Texas Chainsaw Massacre take place in the daytime. The final scary scenes in The Wicker Man, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Friday the 13th take place in the daytime. Daytime horror can be extremely effective. It can even be more effective that nighttime horror because you can't hide from it. The most intense scenes from War of the Worlds and A Quiet Place 2 take place in a public place with people dying left and right in the day, and the ending of Cloverfield, the most shocking and terrifying one, takes place after daybreak. A mass shooting scene in an elementary school in a Texan summer in an air conditioned school in thr middle of the day would be one of the most horrific scenes I can think possibly think up, and that would take place in the daytime. If it happens in the daytime, that makes it more intense than at nighttime. Movie makers need to realise that fact.
A chill went up my spine. My heart dropped into my stomach.
Another one for me is the ghosts/demons just love to use the same tricks in every. Single. Movie. For what reason is it always a toy, locking doors and lights? I get it’s supposed to have an impact on us but why would a ghost play around with toy cars or whatever and always first target the children? Also my favourite trick they use is that they see the entity in a reflective surface and when they turn around there is nothing.
The Haunting of Hill House from 2018 has the 2-story haunted house in the suburbs with the new family moving in. The escalating suspicious things are there as well as the shady previous owners. Atonement, suffering...check. However, it was still an amazing original story and very entertaining in my opinion.
One cliche I particularly can't stand is when a child is told by an adult "not to go in the cellar" without giving a reason, as if they expect kids to be perfect obedient little robots. Kids in real life can't get shut off. They are curious creatures. They literally want the answers to everything.
Good call on that. Giving a logical explanation isn't of hitting a kid with "Because I said so!" would made for some interesting dilemmas for the kid
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Yeah I can even use a non-scary example for that: In Disney's Encanto, when Bruno is mentioned and his name is basically hushed saying "Oh no, we don't talk about him!" If I was one of those kids I literally would want to know the whole time WHY Bruno isn't talked about. You can go on and on telling me about your other family members and what abilities they have, but the fact you're not telling me WHY YOU DONT TALK ABOUT BRUNO would drive me up the wall if I was a kid new to your town lol, you're basically giving a kid an invitation to find out becuz you simply don't have a made up concrete reason hahah
@@torytellstales The lesson here: NEVER make a kid curious if you don't want them involved in something
I like the idea of the killers (yes plural) being brutally efficient and practiced at hunting people down. And this is shown when their victims actually do everything “right”, make the choices that should, in theory, lead to their survival. And yet, the killers are so good at what they do, and so powerful in an animalistic way, that it doesn’t matter - they still win.
For the main character to overcome them, he must rely on quick thinking, using the environment to his advantage, and ultimately turning the main antagonist’s own twisted ideology against him to expose his weakness to the rest of his disciples, who then cannibalize themselves in the ensuing power struggle.
Now just to implement the idea…
Hear me out. If you look at Brandon for long enough, he could pass as a vampire.
Edit: he’s definitely a vampire.
Hahah best compliment I've received in weeks
In my horror novel the spirit of the little girl doesn't just haunt the house she can really be anywhere she wants.And for the important character dieing the mom dies,the dad dies,and the little girl that met the spirit dies.The little girl only kills the dad by choice (because he killed her and buried her on the hill were they built there house) the mother hangs herself and the little girl gets burned alive with Spirit by choice because she likes her too much.
I love that you have the spirit leaving the house. You can keep the house as an "anchor point" for the ghost while expanding outward. Plus, you can surprise us in more places. Best of luck with the novel!
Great examples, I agree with all. Here's one I've started to find particularly annoying: a character is laying in bed and hears a sound. They immediately sit up in bed and get a "Huh!?" look on their face, and I immediately start cringing because I know we're about to see 2-3 minutes of sloooooowly wandering around trying to investigate the source of the sound. It's especially egregious when the sound is something minor most people wouldn't even pay attention to, and is never repeated again. One wonders how long the character would have continued to scour the earth if the cat hadn't jump scared them.
One thing i also hate in some horror movies, is their overuse in jumpscares. Seriously, I can still remember how disappointed I was watching IT 2
Bruh I literally scream at the book or tv
when the person isn’t really heard or not believed.
I’m like, “BRO YOU LIVE NEXT TO A GRAVEYARD AUNT
LINDA IT DEFINITELY HAPPENED.” I thought that was just me.
Haha no you're definitely not alone--I roll my eyes whenever I see this happen in horror stories
#1 reminded me of Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest. While not a horror movie, it still applies. When the Kraken is first introduced it swallows an entire ship in a fraction of a second. Then, at every subsequent Kraken attack, it takes its sweet time destroying the ships conveniently when important characters are on said ships. A slight blemish on an otherwise great movie
Where #5 works is when instead of cat and mouse, it's more like isolate and gaslight (koontz's The house of thunder did it that way)
Hi there I’m currently writing a sci fi/ thriller and I guess it’s also horror. I have sort of a twist in the top 5. The protagonist mentions her mother about him encountering with beings from space. The mother just gets mad at him because she believes that all the comic books or sci fi magazines have poured his mind into ridiculous ideals.
How long does the mother continue to doubt him? A little doubt at the start is fine (and natural), but when it drags out, that's when it gets tedious.
Try getting your protag to prove his point early on if that's possible. Make the mother a believer, and see if that event makes everything more interesting
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty we’ll just the early part of the story (which is just natural ) then eventual towards the end she now might recognize the situation that the protagonist is currently in. so if I may show you current text of the novel just to be sure it’s direction is going towards.
@@patricksleep9787 If it's only the early part, that works. Might want to make the mother a believer around the 20%-40% mark of your story. Most types of these stories will have the mother doubting the child until the late stages of the book, so you can keep your audience on their toes by making that happen sooner.
Edit: 3:08 never mind you made a good point and had come up with an actual solution.
Old
2:09 I've fought people on unfair advantages before and I will tell you; night time is the most advantageous time to get the jump on someone and not day time. You are at the biggest advantage when you can see your target, when your target can't see you and have limited options. If you know your surroundings you can win pretty easy.
"It Follows" does a wonderful job at making all the horror happen at both nighttime and daytime
The horror cliche I hate is the possessed loved one. A trusted friend of family member's mind becomes possessed by a demon or microchip or alien and clandestinely turns on you. This may have been novel in 1978 with "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" but is the opposite of the "creative monster" and is worn out today.
I liked the subversion of #5 in the movie It Waits (2005-6), the creature seemed to leave the main character be to torture them seemingly finding pleasure in it like the Cenobites from Hellraiser which is another subversion of #5.
As a newcomer to horror writing, I am really sick of generic stories. None of the tropes will be in any of the books
What do you consider generic? IMO a lot of slasher films are generic because they overplay the same scenario/setting/character types.
7:14 - this accurately describes Prey 2022 where the Predator is suddenly dumb during the final fight, is inept, falls for every trap and doesn't even know its own tech.
Haven't seen Prey yet, but I'll have to watch out for that. Heard good things about the movie overall
I'm not a fan of horror, but the scariest thing I've ever seen was called "The Thing in the Basement". You never saw The Thing; only the young protagonist could see it, and it was never explicitly clear whether it was real or just his imagination. It didn't run away when the father confronted it; the adults just couldn't see, hear, feel, or sense it, so naturally they assumed it didn't exist.
“No horror during daytime.”
“Drag Me to Hell” was a good example of daytime scares.
It’s really interesting how some of the best horror stories ever fall into 3+ of these and don’t really get dragged down by it
Maybe because a lot of them were written before these became overused tropes
I love horror yet I’m not a horror writer, I’m a fiction writer who is writing my debut novel about a girl getting stuck in a world of her imagination, but she can’t remember a single thing about it, she has to find a locked-away god who is extremely powerful and prophetic, it’s like Percy Jackson meets a wrinkle in time (one of my favourite stories despite me not reading it) but when it comes to my stories, yeah it’s for a younger audience (I’m 16) but I still want it to feel threatening, scary and you can do that in just about anything.
In my opinion, if your scared enough from what you read, who the villain is, how sick or sadistic or misunderstood (despite me hating that last trope) can we have villains that ARE evil, or EVIL and they also have TRAUMA but they justify the unjustifiable for their EVIL and they think their doing it for the greater GOOD?
I think antagonists are MISUNDERSTOOD while villains are EVIL, and I think that I am right, they both can be scary but not all antagonists are villains, they might be their sidekick or work for themselves against the villain while also not being co-operative with the HERO/PROTAGONIST if you know what I mean.
There are different types of villains but I eat up on the pure evil villains, close to pure evil is fine, but if their actions are both good and bad, they’re an anti-hero in my opinion.
Of course this is my opinion, not everyone is going to have that opinion which is okay, I just like villains that possess FEAR or feed off of FEAR or STRESS or whatever they want (they can be attracted to anything from fear to love to hate in a way to break or prolong it)
Thanks for listening to my tangent, but yes, I hate the trope where it’s like “no day/yes night” or “daddy, there’s a monster by the door.” “No there isn’t Lily, go to bed it’s okay.” OR “Rachel, you’re going crazy there is no demon in the house.”
It’s just an ick I really hate 😅
One of my favorite movies, The Witch has much of the most horrible stuff happen in the middle of the day including the event that sets the story in motion.
Interesting idea calling Jurassic Park a haunted house story. I see it more as a monster movie/creature feature with predatory dinosaurs as the monsters. I hear what you are saying about haunted houses in general, very repetitive.The next most overused is the old mansion. The trope can be used in many more ways. I believe somebody once referred to Event Horizon as a haunted house movie in space.
I hate how in movies about wild animal attacks, the animal will be nowhere in sight while a character is making a sentimental speech. Who knew the best way to avoid dangerous creatures was to confess something about your past or say something profoundly emotional? It's very considerate of the wolves/bears/big cats/sharks/whatever to wait until the human characters have stated their honest feelings and/or moved the plot forward before launching the next attack.
Brahm Stoker builds the entire middle act of Dracula around saving Lucy. She is an immensely likable character and has 4 brave competent heroes protecting her and she still gets taken by the Count it's impactful and from then on none of the heroes really seem safe
One of the main characters of my story "Untold" got basically torn apart by a giant cat creature- that’s not even the main threat of the story…
I hate a lot of American Horror movies because of these same exact cliches and tropes. I just saw Evil Dead Rising and it felt like there was a checklist they needed to check. They got the elevator that fills with blood, check. They got the fly that flies around the evil body, check. You got to have the dumb child who opens the door, check. It's just so repetitive and not creative.
Vampire the masquerade RPG tabletop did some cool ideas with supernatural creatures
Actually watching this is helping me to what to add and what not to add to my story that I am working on.
If you're wondering, the story I was inspired by Christine and The Car. However instead of a regular civilian car it's a 1980's Chevrolet Caprice police cruiser. The cruiser is possessed and kills people. I know, so exciting! But anyway, I am looking online for inspiration or just help with how I can improve the overall story. Got any ideas or advice for me?
Hmm...what specific area do you need to improve in?
Also, I would read or watch Christine, then ask yourself what you can do differently in your own story.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I just need improvement in character development, death scenes, things like that. So, I really only have an idea like "This car goes around and kills people." I feel like it could be better, though. Because I really only have the car kill people by running them over. Christine and The Car had more creative ways of killing people.
For characters, I really only have the main protagonist being the detective assigned to cases where criminals were killed in hit and run accidents.
Do you think I need to improve these aspects? What should I do to really make this feel like a horror story? Right now it only seems like "these guys get killed." It just doesn't really feel like a horror story.
@@thatonewaspatyourpicnic7978 Find ways to connect your characters to the car. What I might do is give them backstory related to cars/driving. Maybe one character regrets killing an innocent person in a car accident. Maybe another had a parent who loved cars more than their child. Or maybe a character works in the auto industry and hates what they do.
Give the characters something car-related that haunts them. Then try to weave the characters' stories together as everybody tries to overcome the past.
Hello Brandon. I penned a novel DEVIL TRIAL, available in wattpad. Follows one of your directives - important character die off. Theodoriss I personally liked and was opposite personality wise to another character she around.
Awesome! Congrats on the story and thanks for watching!
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Sure. Its prep for an upcoming horror short.
@@TheKeithvidz Sweet. I just released a video on Short Story Plot Structure, so you might want to give it a look:
ua-cam.com/video/STVF_EhRopI/v-deo.html
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty will do - wrote dozens. I collected and shared info about and in the finishing touches of a fantasy.