this guy gives the most useful and succinct explanation of analog summing that I've ever read and he is highly commended. Most of these UA-cam video have people talking shit but this guy nailed the concept with useable diagrams and insight.
I kept going back and listening to that. At first, I thought that it was pretty amusing that it "sounded" like he said that. Ha! He actually said that. Too funny!
Hi, I've purchased the 2-Bus and I'm happy with it except for a weird thing that could be a mistake I'm doing: I routed my patch bay so I can swap between the 2Bus sum and ITB. And volume wise the 2-Bus output knob has to be all the way up to +6dB to be as hot as the ITB one. Why is that?!
@MikaalSulaiman The 2-Bus has no bypass switch, but I'm not clear as to why you would need that? If you want to mix in the box you just have to change the outputs of you DAW and it will only run out of 1 pair of channels on the 2-Bus.
I found the LT is a great sounding box all around. Clean, transparent. The stereo imaging and and clarity is what I discovered to be where the magic is. I always had to pull the center image back up using m/s during mastering since the imaging was so wide and more apparent.
@rubentirado09 what might be confusing about it is that in the video, he renamed his paths. So what would have been "bus 1-2" in a standard protools i/o setup, has been renamed "print". So your stereo aux channel would take input from whatever line ins you use to record the mix, and then its output would be bus 1-2 (or any stereo pair you're not using). Then your Print track would have bus 1-2 as an input, and digital out as your output.
@gutterrecords yes you get more headroom in the 2-Bus. It is true that you are limited by the headroom of the converter on the way back into the daw, but this will have no effect on the sound of your mix so long as you don't print too hot. In other words, whatever benefits you have obtained from summing outside of the box are maintained so long as you don't smash the converter on the way back in, which is true for any method of mixing.
can we hire studios online to just run our stems via a 2 bus for us? just wanted to see for myself what quality increase we can get with this integration for our mixes.
+Akshat Mehrotra Nope. Forget about analog summing. It's not worth it. It's a very expensive game to play. I used to use summing with expensive converters, and it was a waste of money. I sold it and bought UAD. Having UAD2 will do you more good in the long run.
+iamthor this statement is retarded, UAD converters suck balls. I have been analog summing for years and have 3 Grammy nominations and a Grammy for Indian classical music and jazz. Summing spreads the sound field and makes bass more solid. it adds headroom and makes EVERYTHING BETTER. you can get cheap summing mixers for as low as 200 bux.
Unless your project is 16 tracks -- what we hv is really a hybrid summing rather than pure analog, coz there is still an element of digital summing happening at the Aux Buss stem levels
@TheSoyuken in this video we are using protools with Lynx Aurora ad/da converters. Personally, that is my setup of choice, but there are plenty of good converters out there. It all depends on what you want to spend.
Are you saying that this happens when you have your tracks split across all 16 channels, or just when you are running 2 channels out into the 2-Bus? Because when you only have one stereo pair going into the 2-Bus, the Volume Knob has to be all the way up to achieve unity. If you are using all the summing channels, the overall mix volume tends to increase, so you shouldn't have to have the knob all the way up.
We suggest using analog summing while recording as well, because you can make much better tracking decisions when you can hear your tracks more clearly. In that case all you would do is split out all your tracks to stems and feed them to the 2-Bus, and monitor everything from there while tracking. Then when it's time to mix, you can keep your session set up the same, just add a print track to record your mix and feed the output of the 2-Bus to your interface and record it on that track.
If you want to use it on the stereo mix, you can insert it between the Sum Output and the Fireface Line Inputs. So you would go D-Box Sum Out into Obsidian Line in, and then Obsidian Line Out into RME Line in to record the final mix. If you'd like to use it on a stem instead of on the stereo mix, you would go from the analog output of the stem, into the Obsidian, then into a pair of inputs on the D-Box Sum Input.
@MikaalSulaiman well it depends on how many outputs you have on your interface. If you have more than 16 outputs you can use 1-16 for the 2Bus and the rest can be dedicated to the x-patch for hardware inserts.
Headroom & Fader position points: I use trim plugin in PT to match most tracks to 0VU=-18dBFS. Sound quality point: Avid's white paper suggests that its digital summing ought to be more precise than most analogue. IMHO what is missing from digital is actual tape compression that absorbs peaks and saturation.
@keepthefireburning you can use a patch bay without losing quality, that's how most people use it. You would do the mix in the 2-Bus the whole time. You split out your tracks so that they are all going through the 2-Bus and getting recorded back in, and then you mix with everything running.
@keepthefireburning hi, what you are going to do is hook up the outputs of your 192 to the inputs of the 2-Bus using dsub cables. Then you will take the outputs of your 2-Bus and plug them into a pair of line inputs on your 192. This is so you can record the summed mix back into your DAW. As far as the pres and control surface, those just get hooked up normally to your 192s, they won't really have much to do with the 2-Bus.
It sounds amazing. I am curiuos on how i can put this to use for me. What sort of Audio interface set up do you recommend to use with this product. I'm guessing I'm going to need something with DB25 connectors.
There is a nice warm analog sound but i can hear the white or pink noise, not sure which once the bass and drums kick in. Is that a result of the dangerous buss?
@mtracy19 I don't believe it is possible to chain two 003s. What you can do is utilize the optical output of the 003 to gain some more digital outs, you would just need to buy an additional d/a converter that accepts optical. There are converters that have 16 outs, it just depends on what exactly you are looking for. There aren't many firewire interfaces that have 16 line outs. Summing with 16 channels is definitely better than 8. The more channels the better when it comes to summing.
Love this vid and part reason why it sold me on Analog Summoning. But Im wondering how you should hook up a (example) hardware compressor in the chain. Using the D-box and the RME fireface, i want to introduce an Obsidian Stereo Com into the chain.
@skittb89 That is completely a matter of preference. Obviously some people like certain converters and interfaces better than others, but really any of them will work well with the 2-Bus. I personally like Lynx converters a lot. I am also hearing good things about the new Avid HD i/o, but haven't use it myself yet.
it always helps to use proper gain structuring when recording. In my experience, I would say almost everybody is recording too hot. That doesn't change the fact however, that there are certain sonic and workflow limitations with the internal digital mixbuss in DAWs, which analog summing helps to alleviate.
Hello, I'm using a Dangerous 2bus+. I connected everything as it should be from/to my Orion Studio (it's pretty much a common sense setup). However, for some reason, I keep getting feedback when I go Main Outs from the 2Bus+ into any inputs on my interface. I'm sure it's something simple being overlooked. Any idea on what it could be?
Yes! You have a feedback loop going. Book a zoom or telephonic appointment right here at your convenience and we'll get you sorted. calendly.com/dangerousmusic
@@dangerousmusic Thanks for the fast response. I actually figured it out. The routing inside of the Antelope software was kind of messy, even when I set it to default routing (I had assumed that would clean everything up lol). I overlooked some of the patch numbers that were duplicates of mixes/routing. I deleted everything and started from scratch to tailor it to the 2Bus+ and Pro Tools, and got everything in order. Thanks again! My client fell in love with the 2Bus+ during his sit-in mix session.
Can you explain when and why you would need +6 db of gain ? I notice summing tracks out of Apollo x16 into the 2bus + barely move the meter on the ad+ , if I send a sine wav in stereo out of Apollo I have to have the 2Bus+ trim pot up all the way to align correctly to the meters on the ad+ , if I tried sending my tracks into the 2bus without doing this I’m hitting the plug ins too hard . Can any one shed some light on this for me ?
Hello, thanks for the question. Gain staging with summing is a topic with some unique answers depending on your setup and workflow. We can help you get it sorted. Please contact our experts in support via phone, email or by scheduling a live online meeting - all the info to connect is right here - www.dangerousmusic.com/support
You most likely have inputs 3 and 4 set to instrument instead of line. If that's the case, not only is it affecting your mix by distorting everything, but it may also be altering the sound of the mix because of the instrument setting. If it's possible to use inputs 7 and 8 this would work much better (make sure those little switches are set to +4) but if you can't do that, make sure 3 and 4 are on line and not instrument
I have an interesting question, how do I used two 2-Buses together? I know in the rear it has an expansion IN, however, how does that work? Does that make one a master and the other a slave? Sorry for the annoying question. I would just like to incorporate another 2-bus into my studio. Thanks a bunch!
Most of us recording mixers, etc appreciate companies like Dangerous Music putting great products like this one.... yes is a free world but you shouldn't trash talk if you have never used or physically try this like i have and is an awesome gear so.....
@DangerousMusicAudio there are lots of different good audio interfaces, it depends on what kind of system you are running on. I really like the Lynx Aurora. RME makes great stuff, apogee is good, it's all a matter of preference.
Might I ask you a technical question? How the summing mixer manage panning? Does 1 channel panned let's say 20% left need 2 channels in the summing mixer? It is not clear to me. Thanks
Hey Alessio, Yes, if you want to soft pan a signal, you'll need to output it to two channels on a summing amp. Then in your DAW you will set the pan pot to wherever you are placing the instrument. In the case of hard panning, you only need to output it one channel. For example: Electric guitar hard panned to the left, could be outputted to channel 5, while another guitar intended to be panned hard right is outputted to channel 6. Feel free to email us if you have anymore questions.
@dangerousmusicaudio hello, thank you for the great products & support. i have a question. i'm using 2 adda converters. a FF800( 8 analog outs) connected to another converter through ADAT. now i have 16 analog outs to my Dangerous 2bus. the problem is monitoring. i have a presonus central station. i'd usually start a mix with an ssl plugin or Glue on the mix bus. whats the best way to monitor and be able to use all my 16 outs, without sacrificing outs 1/2 for monitoring. thank you
Great lesson I have a analog question that I’m so struggling with. Very very confused or should I say I’m trying to find the right gear that works best for my setup. MPCX Drum Machine. Roland TD50K VST plug-in notice every I just name goes USB into the computer. Now. Which Apollo X would be right for me in order to do what your doing with Dangerous Music? Meaning while mixing in Protools I would like to send 16ch out into Dangerous Music back into Protools. Or in my case is that an overkill ? Meaning I wanna feed those VSTs MPCX into Apollo X into Dangerous Music I’m kinda stuck on which to buy.
Hi,great video! I just brought the bus lt it comes to me in 2 week, so im a litlle confuse about conecting my equiptment ,i have a digidesing c24 two interfaces 192 avid and i have two avalon 747 sp which is the best way to conect them ,i really apreciate your help, sorry for my english im from venezuela ....
Question guys: love my new dangerous dbox. i have everything arranged as it should be for summing and it works great. but my question is. i am going back into my digi002 into inputs 3 and 4 instead of 7 and 8. i notice its a lot louder and i have to turn my tracks all the way down lots of time to avoid distortion. furthermore. when recording the mix after the summing, i notice i am clipping on my audio input from the summing bus. should i turn this down to avoid clipping. on the return.
Is it possible to do this line in with a smaller mixer? A nice one though, Mackie, Soundcraft, Yamaha, Allen & Heath, etc. Cause that seems to be all it is.
Fab is the Jeremy Clarkson of the mixing world! His people stereotyping humor is exactly the same haha! If mixing was more commercial he would have his own tv show.
This might be a dumb question, but why wouldn't you send the tracks to a bus (say a drum bus or a vocal bus) and then send those to be summed? Would that ruin the whole point of the analog summing?
Hey Brandon, The D-Box has eight channels, our other analog summing amps do sixteen. The purpose of this is to do your summing in the analog domain instead of digital. Please give us a call to discuss, or watch our good friend Ryan West talk about why he uses analog summing. ua-cam.com/video/bZuQfrofjMs/v-deo.html
Hello, thanks for reaching out. Please contact our integration and workflow experts any time via phone, email, or by scheduling on online meeting - all of the info is here - www.dangerousmusic.com/support
I’ve been amazed with Fab since my first video discovering him a while back. I know Sweetwater highly respects him, and my sales rep there is actually a friend of his. I will most likely subscribe to the Pure Mix website for their unbeatable tutorials. Ryan West also does a good job explaining the Color Circuits of the 2 Bus +. I’m about to upgrade to an Apollo 8 interface and D-Box, but considering this unit and the Apollo 16. IMHO ... many argue in-the-box vs. analog summing majoring on tone ... but it seems to me that imaging, improved workflow, no latency, etc. are overlooked issues. Also, it seems the outboard Dangerous units can ‘take the heat’ and save CPU power on your laptop or computer. Again, imho ... Master engineers who profess ITB is the way to go can say that because the mixes sent to them for Mastering are usually done in higher end studios. My conclusion ... if Fab recommends anything, it’s worth considering. Thank you.
We're not totally sure with this specific demo but different workflows demand different routing. Some will use the aux track because they are summing only certain track groupings from a mix and/or maybe want to apply specific group plug-ins in their DAW post sum.
@marcobucci farmelo[DOT]com/blog/?p=37 Go to this link, but replace the [DOT] with an actual period. In this example, he is using a D-Box, which only has 8 channels of summing, so with the 2-Bus, which has 16, there would be even more of a noticeable difference.
@lancelotdulacful If you have a Fireface400 you shouldn't need to buy anything else, it has both A/D and D/A converters built in. Watch our video on D-Box integration- it shows how to setup your system when using a 003, which has similar features as the 400. Just know while watching is that it is going to be slightly different because the 2-Bus doesn't have some of the features that the D-Box has.
Hey Dangerous Music, great video! Fab really does amazing work. I have a quick question: When he talks about sending the signal out through the DAW to the 2-Bus and then back, can you use the same convertor? For instance, can I move everything down to 16 outputs in Logic, then export through the 16 outputs on an Apogee Symphony, send that to the 2-Bus, then the return back into my unit would be two inputs on the same Symphony interface? Also, if I'm exporting my mix back into my DAW, won't I still have to bounce that "master" file through my DAW? So ostensibly, I'm still summing in digital? Thanks for your help!
What you've described is the typical workflow. When you've recorded the mix back into your DAW using a stereo input channel, it'll be 'like' you bounced it.
why not just send your full mix to a stereo input on the summing mixer? Cant get my head around why I need inputs for each channel if I do all the mixing in the daw
Hey Simen, The whole point of analog summing is to take sixteen channels or more of audio, and combine them into two channels of audio in the analog domain. Only sending two channels of a mix summed in the box defeats the purpose. Feel free to contact us via email or phone to discuss this farther.
Very very good video and explanation. I have the d box as well running with an apogee Rosetta for output and a 16x ad. Convertor setup, my sound improved drastically with the analog summing the sounds all seemed to spread out much wider and much richer in depth thanks to the extra headroom all jokes aside I wish I had the to have had all 16 channels now, or would had layed it away until I did oh well it still sounds great also never skimp on your converters they make a world of difference in yo
you can do that, and many people do. It's especially useful if you want to process the whole stem. For some people though it's just an extra unnecessary step. Everyone has a different workflow.
I think you missed the point of his analogy. He doesn't say the 2-Bus is like a tape machine- he says it's like an analog console (which it very much is) because it takes the multiple tracks from the DAW (which he says replaces the tape machine) and sums them into stereo, before printing them back into the DAW (which replaces the stereo tape machine. Also, your second point does not apply to the 2-Bus, seeing as it has 16 analog inputs, which all receive their own signal from D/A converters
@Ra66itBone There are a couple of ways to do this. The best way is to get an additional two channel d/a converter and utilize one of your digital outputs on your RME to send the output of your print track through to the d/a and then to the central station. The easier, but less accurate way is to just plug the MON output of the 2Bus into the central station and monitor off of that, the only problem being that you can't hear the final step. Another great solution to all of this would be a D-Box ;)
It is very simple- all you have to do is take the record output of the first 2-Bus and bring it into the expansion in of the second 2-Bus. Then the output of the second 2-Bus becomes your master output. I guess technically you could call the first 2-Bus a "slave" but it's really more like their outputs are just linked together
@mtracy19 I recommend looking into RME stuff. For what you are trying to do, I think that would get you the best quality without breaking the bank. You might have to buy a couple different pieces to achieve your full setup, but I think it would be worth it. Talk to your local gear dealer, I recommend Sweetwater.
Their is plenty of headroom in a daw at 144db of dynamic range at 24 bit. People need to realize that on a console you read VU meters; the VU meters 0 is around -18dbfs inside the box. Their is more than enough headroom inside the box just simply gain stage properly when recording! This 2-Bus actually has less dynamic range than inside the box so I don't see how it can give you more "Headroom".
You certainly can, but you have you be mindful of any latency added when the signal/stem returns back to your software. With analog summing, all tracks would be processed with that same latency when going back in. So it's only something to keep an eye on if processing single tracks separately. Call or email us if you would like to discuss. -DMI Support
Whoever said that 0dBVu is -18dBFS is wrong. Its -14dbFS... Not once does he say the summing amp is replacing tape. A daw is equivalent to a multitrack in the purest sense. So the daw replaced that form of Tape. The most valueable part I can take away from this is that its easy to route your audio into the 2bus and have it summoned into a stereo track. Going thru the analog will always have noticeable effects, especially in tonal quality. Sure you can emulate it, but youre only emulating. I think it would be best if people maintained a proper disposition when discussing these things.
I thought to switch the video and then the mix started and at 6:45 i thought "hmm, these laptop speakers sound impressive" and then realised it is the quality of the mix
Please see my other comment for the answer to the 2" tape comment. He never compares it to 2" tape, and we would never make a claim like that. If you have a legitimate criticism we welcome it. If you want to trash talk a product you've never used based on your emotional reaction to a guy in a video, there is no conversation to be had.
And as for the "rhetoric" you speak of, you are entitled to your opinion. But just so you have all the facts, the 2-Bus was the first summing mixer ever created, and since then there have been dozens of companies who have copied it and thousands of people who have jumped into the world of analog summing. You can think what you want about ours or any other summing mixer but we are not selling snake oil. As for the guy in the video, he's not a salesman he is a producer who happens to like our gear
this guy gives the most useful and succinct explanation of analog summing that I've ever read and he is highly commended. Most of these UA-cam video have people talking shit but this guy nailed the concept with useable diagrams and insight.
I, for one, would like to hear an A/B of a mix summed totally in the box, vs the same mix summed through the 2bus!
I'm a gear head and I must say that this is a very well done piece.
Clear and concise. Now I want one of these summers. Thanks.
".....depending on your self respect and aesthetics......."
i am literally buying a d-box because of that line.
dnash he said ssl or neve depending on...
I kept going back and listening to that. At first, I thought that it was pretty amusing that it "sounded" like he said that.
Ha! He actually said that. Too funny!
i love fab always makes it so easy plays music and shows how to do it unlike some of these youtube time wasting cunts
To Dangerous Music...thanks so much for the considered response. Makes sense.
Hi, I've purchased the 2-Bus and I'm happy with it except for a weird thing that could be a mistake I'm doing: I routed my patch bay so I can swap between the 2Bus sum and ITB. And volume wise the 2-Bus output knob has to be all the way up to +6dB to be as hot as the ITB one. Why is that?!
Can I have the DBOX go out to a say Focus rite Clarett or BAby face pro instead of a dedicated A/D converter?
I love the dangerous 2 bus It sounds absolute great to my ears. I wouldn't mind sending every track out to it!
@MikaalSulaiman The 2-Bus has no bypass switch, but I'm not clear as to why you would need that? If you want to mix in the box you just have to change the outputs of you DAW and it will only run out of 1 pair of channels on the 2-Bus.
I found the LT is a great sounding box all around. Clean, transparent. The stereo imaging and and clarity is what I discovered to be where the magic is. I always had to pull the center image back up using m/s during mastering since the imaging was so wide and more apparent.
@rubentirado09 what might be confusing about it is that in the video, he renamed his paths. So what would have been "bus 1-2" in a standard protools i/o setup, has been renamed "print". So your stereo aux channel would take input from whatever line ins you use to record the mix, and then its output would be bus 1-2 (or any stereo pair you're not using). Then your Print track would have bus 1-2 as an input, and digital out as your output.
@gutterrecords yes you get more headroom in the 2-Bus. It is true that you are limited by the headroom of the converter on the way back into the daw, but this will have no effect on the sound of your mix so long as you don't print too hot. In other words, whatever benefits you have obtained from summing outside of the box are maintained so long as you don't smash the converter on the way back in, which is true for any method of mixing.
can we hire studios online to just run our stems via a 2 bus for us? just wanted to see for myself what quality increase we can get with this integration for our mixes.
+Akshat Mehrotra Nope. Forget about analog summing. It's not worth it. It's a very expensive game to play. I used to use summing with expensive converters, and it was a waste of money. I sold it and bought UAD. Having UAD2 will do you more good in the long run.
+iamthor this statement is retarded, UAD converters suck balls. I have been analog summing for years and have 3 Grammy nominations and a Grammy for Indian classical music and jazz. Summing spreads the sound field and makes bass more solid. it adds headroom and makes EVERYTHING BETTER. you can get cheap summing mixers for as low as 200 bux.
@gutterrecords It is being summed back together in an analog piece of gear, instead of inside the computer, which makes a huge difference.
Unless your project is 16 tracks -- what we hv is really a hybrid summing rather than pure analog, coz there is still an element of digital summing happening at the Aux Buss stem levels
@TheSoyuken in this video we are using protools with Lynx Aurora ad/da converters. Personally, that is my setup of choice, but there are plenty of good converters out there. It all depends on what you want to spend.
Are you saying that this happens when you have your tracks split across all 16 channels, or just when you are running 2 channels out into the 2-Bus? Because when you only have one stereo pair going into the 2-Bus, the Volume Knob has to be all the way up to achieve unity. If you are using all the summing channels, the overall mix volume tends to increase, so you shouldn't have to have the knob all the way up.
Absolutely. And the circuitry in the D-Box is identical to the 2-Bus
We suggest using analog summing while recording as well, because you can make much better tracking decisions when you can hear your tracks more clearly. In that case all you would do is split out all your tracks to stems and feed them to the 2-Bus, and monitor everything from there while tracking. Then when it's time to mix, you can keep your session set up the same, just add a print track to record your mix and feed the output of the 2-Bus to your interface and record it on that track.
If you want to use it on the stereo mix, you can insert it between the Sum Output and the Fireface Line Inputs. So you would go D-Box Sum Out into Obsidian Line in, and then Obsidian Line Out into RME Line in to record the final mix.
If you'd like to use it on a stem instead of on the stereo mix, you would go from the analog output of the stem, into the Obsidian, then into a pair of inputs on the D-Box Sum Input.
@MikaalSulaiman well it depends on how many outputs you have on your interface. If you have more than 16 outputs you can use 1-16 for the 2Bus and the rest can be dedicated to the x-patch for hardware inserts.
@tyek59 awesome, glad to hear you are enjoying it!
Headroom & Fader position points: I use trim plugin in PT to match most tracks to 0VU=-18dBFS. Sound quality point: Avid's white paper suggests that its digital summing ought to be more precise than most analogue. IMHO what is missing from digital is actual tape compression that absorbs peaks and saturation.
@keepthefireburning you can use a patch bay without losing quality, that's how most people use it. You would do the mix in the 2-Bus the whole time. You split out your tracks so that they are all going through the 2-Bus and getting recorded back in, and then you mix with everything running.
@gutterrecords yes the summing section of a D-Box is identical to a 2-Bus
@keepthefireburning hi, what you are going to do is hook up the outputs of your 192 to the inputs of the 2-Bus using dsub cables. Then you will take the outputs of your 2-Bus and plug them into a pair of line inputs on your 192. This is so you can record the summed mix back into your DAW. As far as the pres and control surface, those just get hooked up normally to your 192s, they won't really have much to do with the 2-Bus.
It sounds amazing. I am curiuos on how i can put this to use for me. What sort of Audio interface set up do you recommend to use with this product. I'm guessing I'm going to need something with DB25 connectors.
There is a nice warm analog sound but i can hear the white or pink noise, not sure which once the bass and drums kick in. Is that a result of the dangerous buss?
@mtracy19 I don't believe it is possible to chain two 003s. What you can do is utilize the optical output of the 003 to gain some more digital outs, you would just need to buy an additional d/a converter that accepts optical. There are converters that have 16 outs, it just depends on what exactly you are looking for. There aren't many firewire interfaces that have 16 line outs. Summing with 16 channels is definitely better than 8. The more channels the better when it comes to summing.
Love this vid and part reason why it sold me on Analog Summoning. But Im wondering how you should hook up a (example) hardware compressor in the chain. Using the D-box and the RME fireface, i want to introduce an Obsidian Stereo Com into the chain.
@skittb89 That is completely a matter of preference. Obviously some people like certain converters and interfaces better than others, but really any of them will work well with the 2-Bus. I personally like Lynx converters a lot. I am also hearing good things about the new Avid HD i/o, but haven't use it myself yet.
it always helps to use proper gain structuring when recording. In my experience, I would say almost everybody is recording too hot. That doesn't change the fact however, that there are certain sonic and workflow limitations with the internal digital mixbuss in DAWs, which analog summing helps to alleviate.
I frickin love this guy. Only in a platonic way of course.
Matthew Payauys Totally! For a quick second, I thought he was a douche. Then I realized that he's completely hilarious.
Hello, I'm using a Dangerous 2bus+. I connected everything as it should be from/to my Orion Studio (it's pretty much a common sense setup). However, for some reason, I keep getting feedback when I go Main Outs from the 2Bus+ into any inputs on my interface. I'm sure it's something simple being overlooked. Any idea on what it could be?
Yes! You have a feedback loop going. Book a zoom or telephonic appointment right here at your convenience and we'll get you sorted. calendly.com/dangerousmusic
@@dangerousmusic Thanks for the fast response. I actually figured it out. The routing inside of the Antelope software was kind of messy, even when I set it to default routing (I had assumed that would clean everything up lol). I overlooked some of the patch numbers that were duplicates of mixes/routing. I deleted everything and started from scratch to tailor it to the 2Bus+ and Pro Tools, and got everything in order. Thanks again! My client fell in love with the 2Bus+ during his sit-in mix session.
@@ankh9etherCongrats! Those internal mixers/routing configs are often a conundrum. Glad you're digging it!
Can you explain when and why you would need +6 db of gain ? I notice summing tracks out of Apollo x16 into the 2bus + barely move the meter on the ad+ , if I send a sine wav in stereo out of Apollo I have to have the 2Bus+ trim pot up all the way to align correctly to the meters on the ad+ , if I tried sending my tracks into the 2bus without doing this I’m hitting the plug ins too hard . Can any one shed some light on this for me ?
Hello, thanks for the question. Gain staging with summing is a topic with some unique answers depending on your setup and workflow. We can help you get it sorted. Please contact our experts in support via phone, email or by scheduling a live online meeting - all the info to connect is right here - www.dangerousmusic.com/support
You most likely have inputs 3 and 4 set to instrument instead of line. If that's the case, not only is it affecting your mix by distorting everything, but it may also be altering the sound of the mix because of the instrument setting. If it's possible to use inputs 7 and 8 this would work much better (make sure those little switches are set to +4) but if you can't do that, make sure 3 and 4 are on line and not instrument
When using only one unit, can you use the Expansion Ins to get 2 more inputs. 18 ins instead of 16?
+eurotheater Yes you can!
I have an interesting question, how do I used two 2-Buses together? I know in the rear it has an expansion IN, however, how does that work? Does that make one a master and the other a slave? Sorry for the annoying question. I would just like to incorporate another 2-bus into my studio. Thanks a bunch!
Most of us recording mixers, etc appreciate companies like Dangerous Music putting great products like this one.... yes is a free world but you shouldn't trash talk if you have never used or physically try this like i have and is an awesome gear so.....
@DangerousMusicAudio there are lots of different good audio interfaces, it depends on what kind of system you are running on. I really like the Lynx Aurora. RME makes great stuff, apogee is good, it's all a matter of preference.
Might I ask you a technical question? How the summing mixer manage panning? Does 1 channel panned let's say 20% left need 2 channels in the summing mixer? It is not clear to me. Thanks
Hey Alessio,
Yes, if you want to soft pan a signal, you'll need to output it to two channels on a summing amp. Then in your DAW you will set the pan pot to wherever you are placing the instrument. In the case of hard panning, you only need to output it one channel. For example: Electric guitar hard panned to the left, could be outputted to channel 5, while another guitar intended to be panned hard right is outputted to channel 6.
Feel free to email us if you have anymore questions.
So,i do the mix inbox first, and them i pass all the channel into the 2bus , can i do this passing throuh a patch bay withot losing quality ?
"Unless of course you are mixing a Beatles record" hahahah
I would like to hear the difference between using the 2-Bus and computer output.
Did I miss something here? How can I tell the difference?
@dangerousmusicaudio
hello, thank you for the great products & support. i have a question. i'm using 2 adda converters. a FF800( 8 analog outs) connected to another converter through ADAT. now i have 16 analog outs to my Dangerous 2bus. the problem is monitoring. i have a presonus central station. i'd usually start a mix with an ssl plugin or Glue on the mix bus. whats the best way to monitor and be able to use all my 16 outs, without sacrificing outs 1/2 for monitoring. thank you
Does the 2 bus Lt give you more headroom too or just the +
Great lesson I have a analog question that I’m so struggling with. Very very confused or should I say I’m trying to find the right gear that works best for my setup. MPCX Drum Machine. Roland TD50K VST plug-in notice every I just name goes USB into the computer. Now. Which Apollo X would be right for me in order to do what your doing with Dangerous Music? Meaning while mixing in Protools I would like to send 16ch out into Dangerous Music back into Protools. Or in my case is that an overkill ? Meaning I wanna feed those VSTs MPCX into Apollo X into Dangerous Music I’m kinda stuck on which to buy.
Hi,great video! I just brought the bus lt it comes to me in 2 week, so im a litlle confuse about conecting my equiptment ,i have a digidesing c24 two interfaces 192 avid and i have two avalon 747 sp which is the best way to conect them ,i really apreciate your help, sorry for my english im from venezuela ....
Question guys: love my new dangerous dbox. i have everything arranged as it should be for summing and it works great. but my question is. i am going back into my digi002 into inputs 3 and 4 instead of 7 and 8. i notice its a lot louder and i have to turn my tracks all the way down lots of time to avoid distortion. furthermore. when recording the mix after the summing, i notice i am clipping on my audio input from the summing bus. should i turn this down to avoid clipping. on the return.
but if you set your gain stages before you record does it help, or do you still need one like this for a any DAW?
Is it possible to do this line in with a smaller mixer? A nice one though, Mackie, Soundcraft, Yamaha, Allen & Heath, etc. Cause that seems to be all it is.
Fab is the Jeremy Clarkson of the mixing world! His people stereotyping humor is exactly the same haha!
If mixing was more commercial he would have his own tv show.
Does that Dbox sound the same as the two bus? Thanks
This might be a dumb question, but why wouldn't you send the tracks to a bus (say a drum bus or a vocal bus) and then send those to be summed? Would that ruin the whole point of the analog summing?
So, you send up to 16 channels thru the DBOX and send them back into your DAW as 2 channels??? Why would you want to do that?
Hey Brandon,
The D-Box has eight channels, our other analog summing amps do sixteen. The purpose of this is to do your summing in the analog domain instead of digital. Please give us a call to discuss, or watch our good friend Ryan West talk about why he uses analog summing. ua-cam.com/video/bZuQfrofjMs/v-deo.html
Fab, Could you share the cabling from the 2bus to AVID HD I/O?
how do you figure?
What do you do with 11 & 12?
Hello, thanks for reaching out. Please contact our integration and workflow experts any time via phone, email, or by scheduling on online meeting - all of the info is here - www.dangerousmusic.com/support
What's the name of the studio monitors that he using?
I’ve been amazed with Fab since my first video discovering him a while back. I know Sweetwater highly respects him, and my sales rep there is actually a friend of his. I will most likely subscribe to the Pure Mix website for their unbeatable tutorials. Ryan West also does a good job explaining the Color Circuits of the 2 Bus +. I’m about to upgrade to an Apollo 8 interface and D-Box, but considering this unit and the Apollo 16. IMHO ... many argue in-the-box vs. analog summing majoring on tone ... but it seems to me that imaging, improved workflow, no latency, etc. are overlooked issues. Also, it seems the outboard Dangerous units can ‘take the heat’ and save CPU power on your laptop or computer. Again, imho ... Master engineers who profess ITB is the way to go can say that because the mixes sent to them for Mastering are usually done in higher end studios. My conclusion ... if Fab recommends anything, it’s worth considering. Thank you.
Why not have the 2-Bus output go directly to a PRINT track instead of an AUX track and then to the PRINT track?
We're not totally sure with this specific demo but different workflows demand different routing. Some will use the aux track because they are summing only certain track groupings from a mix and/or maybe want to apply specific group plug-ins in their DAW post sum.
@marcobucci farmelo[DOT]com/blog/?p=37
Go to this link, but replace the [DOT] with an actual period. In this example, he is using a D-Box, which only has 8 channels of summing, so with the 2-Bus, which has 16, there would be even more of a noticeable difference.
@lancelotdulacful If you have a Fireface400 you shouldn't need to buy anything else, it has both A/D and D/A converters built in. Watch our video on D-Box integration- it shows how to setup your system when using a 003, which has similar features as the 400. Just know while watching is that it is going to be slightly different because the 2-Bus doesn't have some of the features that the D-Box has.
Hey Dangerous Music, great video! Fab really does amazing work. I have a quick question: When he talks about sending the signal out through the DAW to the 2-Bus and then back, can you use the same convertor? For instance, can I move everything down to 16 outputs in Logic, then export through the 16 outputs on an Apogee Symphony, send that to the 2-Bus, then the return back into my unit would be two inputs on the same Symphony interface? Also, if I'm exporting my mix back into my DAW, won't I still have to bounce that "master" file through my DAW? So ostensibly, I'm still summing in digital? Thanks for your help!
Did you ever figure this out? I'm wondering the same thing
What you've described is the typical workflow. When you've recorded the mix back into your DAW using a stereo input channel, it'll be 'like' you bounced it.
why not just send your full mix to a stereo input on the summing mixer? Cant get my head around why I need inputs for each channel if I do all the mixing in the daw
Hey Simen,
The whole point of analog summing is to take sixteen channels or more of audio, and combine them into two channels of audio in the analog domain. Only sending two channels of a mix summed in the box defeats the purpose. Feel free to contact us via email or phone to discuss this farther.
how do you set up print? Aux?
What's are the converters ????
@DangerousMusicAudio Great, thank you!
Very very good video and explanation. I have the d box as well running with an apogee Rosetta for output and a 16x ad. Convertor setup, my sound improved drastically with the analog summing the sounds all seemed to spread out much wider and much richer in depth thanks to the extra headroom all jokes aside I wish I had the to have had all 16 channels now, or would had layed it away until I did oh well it still sounds great also never skimp on your converters they make a world of difference in yo
“Good morning Children” lol you bet!😂😂
You left out the great SSL Soundscape DAW. My SS32 is rock solid.
Would be nice to hear ITB and OTB mixes.
you can do that, and many people do. It's especially useful if you want to process the whole stem. For some people though it's just an extra unnecessary step. Everyone has a different workflow.
I think you missed the point of his analogy. He doesn't say the 2-Bus is like a tape machine- he says it's like an analog console (which it very much is) because it takes the multiple tracks from the DAW (which he says replaces the tape machine) and sums them into stereo, before printing them back into the DAW (which replaces the stereo tape machine. Also, your second point does not apply to the 2-Bus, seeing as it has 16 analog inputs, which all receive their own signal from D/A converters
Just got one. Love it!
This is all fantastic, but do you have any French hot dog recipes?
@Ra66itBone There are a couple of ways to do this. The best way is to get an additional two channel d/a converter and utilize one of your digital outputs on your RME to send the output of your print track through to the d/a and then to the central station. The easier, but less accurate way is to just plug the MON output of the 2Bus into the central station and monitor off of that, the only problem being that you can't hear the final step. Another great solution to all of this would be a D-Box ;)
It is very simple- all you have to do is take the record output of the first 2-Bus and bring it into the expansion in of the second 2-Bus. Then the output of the second 2-Bus becomes your master output. I guess technically you could call the first 2-Bus a "slave" but it's really more like their outputs are just linked together
Thank you so much for the reply! There was no email so i figured its good to see questions for others as well ;)
I'd like to know exactly how to hookup my sub to my D-BOX. I'm already using 2 pairs of monitors.
"Depending on your self respect and aesthetics"
HA! Like a boss.
@mtracy19 I recommend looking into RME stuff. For what you are trying to do, I think that would get you the best quality without breaking the bank. You might have to buy a couple different pieces to achieve your full setup, but I think it would be worth it. Talk to your local gear dealer, I recommend Sweetwater.
Their is plenty of headroom in a daw at 144db of dynamic range at 24 bit. People need to realize that on a console you read VU meters; the VU meters 0 is around -18dbfs inside the box. Their is more than enough headroom inside the box just simply gain stage properly when recording! This 2-Bus actually has less dynamic range than inside the box so I don't see how it can give you more "Headroom".
Could one just send a vocal and an instrumental through this hardware? Separately of course.
You certainly can, but you have you be mindful of any latency added when the signal/stem returns back to your software. With analog summing, all tracks would be processed with that same latency when going back in. So it's only something to keep an eye on if processing single tracks separately. Call or email us if you would like to discuss.
-DMI Support
Dangerous Music thank you
I’m looking to add dangerous modules on the chain doing more research
Very Beautiful ❤
Where i'm confused is PRINT..??
If you wanna keep your faders around 0db without clipping your DAW master buss when mixing ITB, just record at lower levels!
So, they sound the same?
Whoever said that 0dBVu is -18dBFS is wrong. Its -14dbFS... Not once does he say the summing amp is replacing tape. A daw is equivalent to a multitrack in the purest sense. So the daw replaced that form of Tape. The most valueable part I can take away from this is that its easy to route your audio into the 2bus and have it summoned into a stereo track. Going thru the analog will always have noticeable effects, especially in tonal quality. Sure you can emulate it, but youre only emulating. I think it would be best if people maintained a proper disposition when discussing these things.
Actually you're both wrong, it depends on the converter. Also there is no such thing as dBVu, only dBV and dBu :)
I thought to switch the video and then the mix started and at 6:45 i thought "hmm, these laptop speakers sound impressive" and then realised it is the quality of the mix
And now it finished. Thats a very convincing engineer. Respect
SEEMS ENOUGH BUT SOMETHING I CANT GOT AT FINAL POINT.. PLEASE HELP ME TO GOT A RIGHT WAY FROM FIRST..
Please see my other comment for the answer to the 2" tape comment. He never compares it to 2" tape, and we would never make a claim like that. If you have a legitimate criticism we welcome it. If you want to trash talk a product you've never used based on your emotional reaction to a guy in a video, there is no conversation to be had.
Everybody needs a good banjo! EVERYBODY!! :D
Thank you so much!
And as for the "rhetoric" you speak of, you are entitled to your opinion. But just so you have all the facts, the 2-Bus was the first summing mixer ever created, and since then there have been dozens of companies who have copied it and thousands of people who have jumped into the world of analog summing. You can think what you want about ours or any other summing mixer but we are not selling snake oil. As for the guy in the video, he's not a salesman he is a producer who happens to like our gear
Engineers, this is good for mastering houses. A stereo compressor on the master buss, sounds good too.
Thank you
Nice! But... the flowers in the background are dead ;-)
+inmado jajajaja I have just notice that the flowers are dead...
Why would I buy this?