Heat Pump difference…? Tesla Model 3 700 mile convoy new v old efficiency comparison!
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- #model3 #vs #tesla
We take a refresh “2021” Tesla Model 3 Long Range and drive it side by side in convoy next to the older pre-refresh version.
With and without heat pump - what is the efficiency difference…?
One car IS more efficient.
One charges faster.
But both are fantastic cars for such a trip!
We explore some of the most scenic areas and best driving roads in wales including;
Black Mountain pass (as often used in TopGear)
Devils Staircase
And many more we just happened to find along the way.
In total we covered over 700 miles.
What is the real world range and charging speed of our car?
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I would think the difference in battery charging will be due to the difference in percentage of cobalt in the packs. I believe the older pack has a slightly higher level of cobalt.
As you pointed out they are not LFP. Nice side by side comparison 👍🏻
Two thoughts - first, to me, Tesla is still the best if you want to use an EV without limits, secondly its amazing how you manage to do all these long journeys with no issues and yet every TV and newspaper journalist is unable to travel more that 50ft without a major issue/ and or take a city car with 100 mile range up to John O’groats and spout nonsense about fitness for purpose. Not saying that infrastructure couldn’t be better and more reliable (non Tesla) but how many old Nissan Leaf drivers drive 500 miles in a day - none - and yet they can have a car perfectly matched to their needs and never even use a public charger.
Well said David 👍
Yer after driving 24000 miles ev miles so in just 17 months even with lockdowns yes we have done 420 miles in one day in the Zoe but was stressful and had to do lots of planning before and on the trip ! But the Tesla there is none of this stress! And done 690 miles in under one day and was a joy no sweat 😉! the Tesla is so great at long trips and we only have the 3 sr+ it’s just a joy to drive ! You need to do no planning have no app filling your phone up or 99 different rfid cars like most other evs and Tesla fixes the problem that we had with the Zoe ze50 like were is the chargers is it working it’s in use and slow charging speed and most siites have one or two poor reliability chargers like bp pulse or cps etc yes there is becoming more rapids charging but it’s still a hassle off the beaten paths and there is still new cars that don’t tell you estimated Soc on arrival and would be a hassle to do a long trip in like Europe road trips or long road trip in less than ideally conditions ! Yes Tesla cars are a good bit different prices compared with some other very good cars but you need to add no options to have a very capable ev in our eyes after trying or researching lots of other evs ! On paper other look good but as a package the 3 wins for us !
Agreed. Our next EV will be a Tesla. Just one point of minor dispute. I drove a 30 kWh Nissan Leaf 600 miles in one day from Devon to North Wales and back without any issues last year.
I have 2 reactions when listening to you/watching your vids. Firstly, your brilliant EV tests. Secondly?
We lived in Bournemouth for 7 years until 2002 so have been to many of the places you start at in your videos. We love Bournemouth and still visit friends down there. Your vids bring back many fond memories.
I lived in Poole until I was 8, then moved to Wales.....still love the area but wouldn't go back, far to busy for me 🤦♂️
We would now love to move to Wales. Currently in Brum and love to camp in Wales with our dogs
@@jonathansmith5850 make the move, many have since the start of this pandemic, great place to live 👍
Thanks for another great video update. Done 5600 miles so far in 11 weeks just for pleasure . And enjoyed every minute of it ! 2 weeks ago took our 3 sr+ to other side of Glasgow and back in under 20 hours about 690 miles was a joy 🤩. And a rest at charge place Scotland charger ,reminded us why we brought a Tesla it took longer to get the charger to work and top up to 95% while watching Netflix and rest before trip home than it did to supercharger going up there and home ! That’s a major + for Tesla at the moment is the plentiful and great charging speed and sensible price of there network! Compared with the competition!
I'll second the call for many more chargers in Wales. Thanks for another great video. I appreciate the hard work that goes into these behind the scenes, but they always look like great fun. Keep up the good work, please.
I am surprised that with updates that both cars wouldn't be using the same charging algorithm for the charging rate and curve. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this with us.
Consider the total charge time is pretty close, I’d go for efficiency over charging speed. If there was a vast difference, that could be a decider but it’s not. Thank you for another great presentation, with included scenery.
Always good content from you guys, I really appreciate your efforts.
Welcome to the Llyn Peninsula! I live about 20 minutes from your destination. Interesting route choice from Bournemouth :-)
Model 3 on a country road is major fun! Puts a smile on my face every time
Have just made the move to a Model 3. Mine is a pre-facelift 2020. Would be interesting to see the difference between Heatpump and No-heatpump in a travel time race. Leave on the same charge from the same place, take the same route but allow Tesla to tell you when to stop. See who arrives first at the destination, the faster charging car or the more efficient car.
4 degrees is cold? Haha - you need to come north Richard....
With respect to charging, is your 2021 model an E3D or E5D variant? Most of the 2021 model 3's came with LG batteries (E5D) whilst the older ones came with Panasonic. The Panasonic pack charges faster. I actually have one of the less common 2021 model 3's with the Panasonic battery (E3D) and it also charges faster. Good luck getting any "clarity" from Tesla on this - they aren't very communicative.
I have noticed that battery pre-heating on mine will flash on and off from even 90 mins before charger arrival. Might be related to the Panasonic battery also
The LG pack is charging much slower than both the old and then new Panasonic pack. I had a nov 2020 LR that I sold after just 1,5 month since I was so disappointed by the SuC charging speed compared to my 2019 LR. I now have a 82kwh Performance and it is charging significantly faster than the LR with the LG pack
Even in poor weather Wales is beautiful. I have a model S and those roads would still be fun to drive, but its just a little too wide.
I live within 10 min of those roads. Have owned 911 turbo, new RS Focus…….and EVs for almost 10 years. Best fun …… Smart Roadster!
My 993S was a blast!
I really enjoy watching your EV road trips. Would like to see more Taycan road trips please.
Another great video👍Did a 170 mile trip to Edinburgh in e208 @ w/e needed 2 charges & had to queue @ Berwick Upon Tweed, so took 5 hrs. I have now ordered M3 thanks to your great videos sorry I couldn’t use your referral code in Appreciation 👏👏Looking fwd to review on 2022 M3 with LFP battery 🔋 No Pressure Thanks to you & your team😀
Would love some stats in the end of the video to break down the differences and easily understood . Still amazing video and review
The big smile on your face says it all!!
Just took delivery of my made in China Standard Range+ with the LFP batteries. It is still learning my driving style and is estimating 440kms on 100%. Took it on an 80km run on the equivalent of your A roads and it used 16% which works out as an actual range of 500kms (310 miles) so I'm pretty encouraged about it's range. FWIW it cost the equivalent of 31,000 pounds after government subsidy here in New Zealand. Not sure how that compares with new prices in the UK but thought people might be interested.
Almost 41 K here
Utter bargain 👍
Actually, A roads and country roads are likely the best place to drive an EV. Both for range and instant power. In my fossil car my fuel economy drops 30% when I avg 70 mph vs 60 mph. Wind resistance is exponentially worse with speed. Basically, fun drives are more efficient than motorway yawn-stretches.
Teslas don’t really learn your driving style. Range is just what the car thinks is left in the battery multiplied by a rated range constant. It never changes except due to battery degradation with age.
Grate to see TESLA changes in Mid Wales. We drive our daughter 4 days a week to Aberystwyth College from Fishguard in our 42kw BMW i3S. Have you been to been to Machynlleth Alternative Energy Centre great fun place.
Hi, rather off topic but many moons ago I drove my family around Wales in an even then elderly Rootes Hillman Minx. Had an overdrive! We drove 'around' Wales as the car could not manage the hills 'in' Wales! Fabulous scenery even on the coast roads.
Epic roads, you came past my house after you travelled over the Black Mountain....I think, Devil's Staircase must have been fun 🤣😆
wow Aberystwyth Superchargers actually being used - most Model 3s seem to use the free at Tesco!
I didn't use Tesco's when I was there in the summer, I used there Superchargers.
Have been to Aberystwyth half a dozen times in last 3-4 months and only seen them being used once. I don’t have Tesla so can’t use them (yet?)
Love your road trips it looks like fun owning an EV
That welsh road looks like a load of fun!
Another detailed and quality review
New to the channel Richard
Love your video
Dan G new model 3 long range 2021 AWD owner 👍👍👍
Richard had the privilege of parking in my supercharger space.
Ah you delivered that to the next village along from where I've got a house and a charger. Might have saved you some anxiety over where to charge up if I'd have known!
Small world… 👋🏻
The slower charge rate is most likely the better battery heater. The newer car is running the heater to warm the battery for optimal charging state. But at the cost of the battery. Think of it more as a pool of electrons. His pool is filling up, but the heater doesn't work as well is older one. Yours, the black one, is filling but also pull extra out to heat the battery, so that would take longer, yes?
Rather interesting trip. I would love to see wales. My bucket list is Scotland, but if I travel over the pond, I would love to visit all of the UK.
Reassuring that heat pump makes a difference. Great video
Great video Richard, keep them coming..
Shame the model Y doesn’t have the 2wd option currently, so you have to pay £10k more than the basic Model 3. Interested to watch your video though on the model 3
We traveled to Boca Chica to see the starshing get built. & we got the S dual motor fsd last Christmas 🎄 😎 still have the cybertruck tri motor or 4 motor fsd on order, i got lots of solar & backup battery system to charge them both. i just bought more TSLA!!
Another great video! Thanks
In the Europe configurator there is a new LR AWD with 380 miles range. I guess it will come to the UK when Tesla are out of the current ones.
Mine is arriving next weekend, a shame that I have missed the one with additional range 🙈 never mind, at least it has the heat pump 👍
I’ll just make sure that my next one has the 4680 batteries 😀
Thanks for another great video!
may be your driver is heavier footed and more on the brakes when going up and down the mountains
OR maybe there is a difference on the regen levels between the cars.
for the charging may be the new car charging slower is to more protect the new battery and may be reduce losing cells in the 1st year.
This makes me want a newer Tesla with the heat pump. It’s such a dramatic difference in efficiency. But a long range rear wheel drive model is no longer available. I prefer my LR RWD driving characteristics over the AWD.
Wales is terrible for rapids. What few there are tend to be the entirely unreliable BP Pulse. It's a shame, it makes driving there a bit fraught with anxiety, when it should be a pleasure.
Love these video’s great real world info 👍
Really good video with REAL data in cold weather. Do the same trip in a ID3 and a KIA both with 58 kW batteries ?
Different driving styles can make a huge difference to range
The only issue is your steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car and you keep driving on the wrong side of the road.
It could be a good time to do another one of these, using a Highland Model 3 in the comparison.
can you please convert all the numbers to KM instead of miles?
One thing: in answers to your query about why the newer Model 3 charges slower … slower charge rates will be better for battery health and life.
Epic trip - any chance you can share the exact route - its on my 'EV trip' bucket list
I believe that when you have a roadtrip with a few stops and let the car guide you from Supercharger to Supercharger then you don't get any message that battery is preheating for supercharging. Or I'm wrong?
If a supercharger is in the route, it shows you when preheating.
As of latest update, also now preheats if navigating to Ionity and other rapid chargers
@@RSEV I was driving from Denmark to Poland last summer in my 2021 M3P and car wasn't showing that battery was being preheated. Maybe because it was around 25C
Great video as always. What was the song at 9 minutes 45?
Another great true world test. Re charging speed. Could it be down to the older car.’s battery degradation making its capacity less and therefore giving the appearance of charging faster.
Also 19" vs 18" . Impressive efficiency for the 2021. 2021 with 18" would have been around 5% more efficient.
Just latched on to your videos and finding them very imformative and very helpful. Loved this video especially as when you were in the deepest part of Wales, thats my home area. Great driving roads as you say and good to know the Teslas didn't disappoint. Been keen on a Tesla for some time now since the m3 came out and just trying to find a reason why I shoudn't get a Tesla, and can't find a good enough reason to go any where else. Just recently tried a Hyundia Ioniq 5 and really liked it but I have a Tesla MY LR on order.
The Hyundia Ionoq 5 with the closet spec matching the MY LR is just too close in pricing and I have long list of reasons why I think the Tesla MY is better. Trying to hold out for the ultimate Berlin version with 4680 batteries and giga press castings etc, but not willing to wait any longer .I will just get the Chinese version if the Berlin model is not available, which is pretty much nailed on now and maybe get a Berlin version in a year or two when Berlin have perfected there production techniques.
Keep up the great work. Got a ruck more of your videos to watch now!
Is one an LG pack and one Panasonic in the old?
Do you use an off the shelf kit for the plate holders? The stock one that ships with the tesla is so bulky, the ones youve got on look much sleeker
We remove the ugly frames and mount direct to backing plate
Nice road trip! Was wondering about that battery situation but is it because RHD M3 are built in China? For some reason China doesn’t use the same Panasonic packs as they do in Fremont. All EU Model Y's have that same 75kW pack (LG) as they come from China too. Had they put the Panasonic pack in I would probably already be driving an MY but now still waiting for either the new 82 pack from LG or whatever they will use in Berlin.
Can you please show metric measurements, thanks.
Richard here is one for you, I’ve had my M3LR for nearly 3 mths and have had to charge it to 100% three time for road trips, each time it stated my max miles would be 340!!! not 360, I know weather and all sorts of things have impact on range, but if you can’t charge to 360 miles in the first place what is the point in stating a car can do it ????, thought it my make a good episode for you to explore
It's there a way to identify the 82kWh battery by the VIN number?
Or..... I suppose what I'm really asking is, when they eventually arrive, how would you identify if a newly delivery car has the 82kWh battery like the rest of Europe has?
not from the VIN, only from the registration papers
How have you found charging efficiency Richard? Sometimes you talk about miles per kWh based on battery usage as reported by the car. Other times you compare with kWh added, as reported on the charger. But what is the efficiency of the charging process? I read that in some circumstances it can be as low as 60%, although a much better % can be expected (for example, if a car with a 60kWh battery is 50% full it might take 35kWh from the charger to get it back to full)
Great video. Would be interested to know what tyres were on the two Model 3's as the difference in economy can't just be down to the heat pump alone ?
Michelins on the white, hankooks on the black. Both original sets from new.
Slightly different battery chemistry in the newer car? Less cobalt?
Hi just got my first tesla 21 plate model 3 long range l have one problem my wife perent live in Bridlington and there are no tesla superchargers with in 70 miles I need a Tesla supercharger in Bridlington please
Thanks daz
Enjoyed the video. On another note do you know when remote access to century will come to the UK please. Mike
Expected soon…
Thank you
Have you driven from Inverness down the Great Glen to Fort William and then down through Loch Lomond National Park? A82 would be fantastic road for this car
That’s a road I know well and if you could manage a roadworks free and traffic free run, it would be cracking. Similarly A82 Crainlarich to Ballahulish is a cracking run. I can’t wait to visit the highlands in my M3 LR👍
@@commuterbranchline8132 I'll see you there in my new Model 3 LR too! Took delivery December 1st.
@@christopherhartley6900 Congratulations, health to drive! I picked mine up 6 weeks ago and I have almost 6000 miles on the car already!
Was the car in front on the black mountains on ‘one peddle driving’ as his brake light were coming on ,on every bend?
One peddle driving is basically always on with a Tesla, so yes
Great video & can you tell me how much the total journey cost using the Tesla super charger for each charge per se?
I have some free charging credits but I would estimate it to be about £25-£30 perhaps (for one car, ours, incl all the way back)
@@RSEV cheers & that’s much appreciated 🙏 the scenery was breathtaking 👏👍
Mights have been asked a dozen times, but can you link the alcantara dash?
www.rsymons.co.uk/alcantara-dashboard-and-door-trims-for-model-3
5:04 and u have white seats/interior with dark plate behind the steering wheel? Hows that? thought u were stuck with white there too
We supply and fit alcantara grey dashboards. This is our demo car. It was originally white
The newer car, in cold weather, wouldn't take longer on a trip despite charging slightly slower as it uses less energy which would make up for it as you don't need to charge as much. But once the temperature is warm enough you don't need a heater then yes, the older one would be faster.
I think that the older model despite using more energy and starting it's charge at a lower rate overtook the 2021 model?! on that basis it would still be faster?
This showed exactly in theory that the older car would be quicker over a v long trip, but by just a matter of minutes and of no significance really. And Only in colder conditions.
We’ve seen same charging result before (see other videos) but equal efficiency.. in which case gap opens and older car would be the fastest if crossing Europe or something. But again, minimal and irrelevant really
@@RSEV The difference is indeed so minimal as to not matter. I do wish there was an easily understood metric around charging that actually meant something though. Peak rate is useless, time taken from 10% to 80% is only marginally better as ultimately I don't care how fast the battery charges, I care how long I have to spend charging to go the xxx miles I need to. For example a Porsche which charges to 80% faster than a Tesla does is only a sensible comparison if the batteries are the same size, what we really mean is 80% of range. So something like, how many minutes to add 180 miles of range or something like that (which is about how far I drive between needing to stop for a bio break and a coffee, or even lunch on long trips, and it would need to be a large number as otherwise it depends where in the pack you're charging).
This is why I like Bjorns 1000km challenge type test as it reveals how the charging speed, pack size nd efficiency work together.
Of course, we all know that most of us don't do long trips with the frequency we like to imagine we do and 99% of the time we charge overnight at home anyway...
Why are there so few Tesla chargers in Wales? Not very encouraging to potential Tesla buyers.
Probably because people tend not to stray from Wales 🙈😂 so charge at home?
We seriously need some decent chargers here, it’s a joke when you look at the supercharger map 🤬
Other than Tesla, there are almost no chargers above 50kw!
Tesla have done well really to get what they have.
Wales seriously need to look at their infrastructure and come out of the dark ages
The reason for the charging difference is that Tesla are keeping it down on purpose as they validate the newer models before opening them up to the higher speeds. I'm pretty sure the 2021 cars in the UK are different cells to the 2020 cars...
Rode up that on my bike……haha…..just saying.
Yep, cycled over the Blacks many times, great route and very popular with cyclists 👍
As an electric car driver you shouldn’t be giving the cyclist any grief 😂
Welsh charging network is utterly rubbish.
Agree. You really have to plan carefully. Mind you same applies to Petrol stations. You could easily have to drive 30 miles to fuel your car.
Agreed! We don’t need any other EVs over here, it’s hard enough. Welsh Gov policy is to let private business fill the gaps……that’s working well 🙄😡
Any chance that there was more battery degradation on the older car which meant it gained battery % faster? Would be interested in knowing the kWh added by the chargers for each car.
Older actually has less mileage (3,000) compared to our 6m old car (10,000 miles)
Are the uk model 3 LR delivered now 82kwh?
No, not yet 🙈
Yeah i checked the dutch site and it said 614km (381 miles) wltp and uk site shows 360 miles wltp. Even the new zealand site shows 614km wltp. So guess have to wait a bit longer, anyone know why? Mines being delivered in March, wonder if i could end up with a 82kwh model
Hello mate
Often on electrics, it's the regen rate that creates the differences of the sort you saw here.
The ideal is to 'learn' the car and set the re-gen to conditions so you hardly touch the brakes for varied roads.
If one car was on very mild and needed discs to slow then it will be VASTLY inferior WPM than one that did not.
But why the walkie talkys? I dont understand.
I thought 2021 was LFP battery, and 2020 was the older battery? 🤔
LFP only on std range?
Older car charges faster 😂
I hope that the 4680 cell will change that