FYI: My Japanese mother in law clarified it for me. People are Asian. Objects are oriental. I was confused and had asked her about the terminology. I hope this helps others ❤
Wow. I have been a member for 36 years, and I am just recently learning the truth of the church history. I no longer consider myself a Mormon because I can not, in good conscience, align myself with such a religion that taught such horrific doctrine. The past matters! If past prophets taught false doctrine for 120 years, then that means the church is not actually led by Jesus Christ. Just another false church, led by false prophets. I'm done with it.
Welcome to the light. I left 45 years ago but, due to the brainwashing, it still feels like yesterday. Read Sandra Tanner and look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Those really capped it for me.
As a Native American, this program is not only offensive, it's racist. God made people of all colors, races, and creeds. You can't erase someone's race, but try telling this to these so-called religious leaders.
Evil, pure evil what the LDS Church teaches/taught per of these wonderful people diverse culture, and rich: history, knowledge, and contributions to the world. As I've said before get to know a person their culture; etc personally and don't believe everything you hear et al, especially when it comes through history. History is not always truthful nor complete imo.
Being a highly caucasian, pasty-skinned former LDS member from rural Utah who was raised in the church, I want to apologize for my part in perpetuating the stereotypes and misinformation the church indoctrinated us with. I know I hurt people, and not knowing better isnt an excise. Im doing my best now to combat this harmful rhetoric, and I truly hope those I hurt can find peace and healing.
Thank you for sharing and being willing to accept responsibility for any pain caused. We also see you were part of the system that doesn’t allow for pushback or growth amongst its members. We can all say “sorry for the things we said when we were Mormon” we learn more so we can do better ❤️
@@DeJaVuCa Nice. I actually dated a Mormon girl in high school. Went to a dance at her temple and was hounded and scolded by the adult "watchers" due to my inappropriate dancing. This was back in the 80's. Good times. Needless to say, that relationship didn't last too long.
When my sister was 16, her boyfriend was Mormon. He couldn’t masturbate, but he could pressure my sister into having sex with him. She got pregnant. His punishment was to “confess to the bishop.” Then they moved away to a new ward & he & his family never told a soul. He went on to do his Mission, marry a TBM & is raising his family in the church. He has daughters now. I wonder how he feels about their boyfriends & if he’s scared they’ll be just as much of an ass hole as he was when he was a teenager. My sister gave the baby up for adoption. The whole no masturbation thing is SO EFFED UP!
That makes no sense. Masturbation is a sin/looked down on but premarital sex isn't?? If he has a conscience he will be worried. A lot of people don't have thar though.
As a former TBM female, this is all TRUE!!! They can’t touch themselves but coercing others to do it for them is “fine.” Known plenty of guys who would sleep w/women then blast them around the church but marry some young naive “perfect” girl🙄🙄🙄I would call everybody out to their face, shaming them for their hypocrisy, but the leaders would try to make me feel bad for doing that…then I’d turn around and cuss them out😈😈😂😂😂I’m no longer a Mormon but don’t come for me w/“doctrine,” when I could out-quote you and show everyone how you’re full of BS🤣
@nomollyshere I've seen jehovah's witness documentaries and videos of ex-members and escapees telling their horror stories and that sounds like some jehovah's witness shit too. Ugh.
I’m so sorry that happened to your sister. 😢 And married people? The message is the same: pressure your spouse (usually the woman) to satisfying all your sexual needs rather than be in charge of your own sexuality and only unite with your loved one when THEY want. The “No masturbate” doctrine left me with so many heavy years of hating myself. Also, when I left the morms I felt better about having unsafe sex than masturbate. Smdh. So unhealthu
One of the interesting bits of trivia about the Book of Mormon is that one of the "evil" Lamanite clans (the "Lemuelites") was apparently named after the Smith family's old landlord, Lemuel Durfee. Durfee and the Smiths were originally on friendly terms, to the point that he purchased the land they were renting so that he could give them more lenient terms than their previous landlord had given them. His "thanks" for this favor was that the Smiths were often negligent on their rent, leading to friction between them, and Joseph Smith pettily naming a villain in the Book of Mormon after him.
When that guy said leave the past in the past, it immediately reminded me of my mother. I was bullied going up. Every time I would try to talk to my mother about it she would tell me to forget about it, get over it. My mother grew up in a household where she was bullied, so in some weird way she believes that being bullied is normal and that she can't do anything about. This is the reason why I moved out of the house.
I grew up in a evangelical Christian church. Around the age of 11, I was diagnosed with a incurable autoimmune disease that made me extremely sick. A mentor from my church asked if I had some great sin in my life that could have caused this illness. When I responded that I didn’t know, she proceeded to tell me that it’s probably a punishment placed on me because my father was divorced.
Good lord. I’ve heard of this very thing myself in Christian churches before, paired with twisted scripture, and it’ll never NOT take my breath away! How dare they!! You are not a sin, nor a curse.
Victim blaming needs to end. This is just my personal opinion but I feel like when religious people try to blame children for bad things happening to them it's because they don't have an answer as to why this child is sick, etc.Even though the Bible says humans aren't supposed to understand everything. Gross.
Y'all I was born in Missouri and grew up JUST across the bridge in Kansas (the bridge being the one over the Missouri River) and I can assure you, Eden is not and was not EVER there. People that LIVE THERE don't jokingly pronounce it "Misery" instead of "Missouri" for nothing. 😂😂😂 P.S. Cults to Consciousness and Amanda Rae are my new fave channels. The work you're doing is so important and you're so good at it! Love it and love you!
I love Amanda Rae, what a sweet beautiful soul. I wish someone would help with her audio and video. She could really help a lot of people. If anyone can help her with audio and video that's an idea of how you can help her.
For me, the most interesting thing about these conversations are not the things that are specific to one religion, but the patterns that emerge from all of them and all the forms of fanatism (including the non religious ones) and all the instances where people gain power by making the "outsiders" a scape goat. These patterns are the kind of thing I try to be very aware of, and I try really hard to recognize them in all my interactions, because they explain so much of the hatred and division that is so very present all over the world. Thanks for your podcast and for this fabulous episode.
I am 62 and I can remember the placement program. It was sad for them to be away from their families. There were many through my adolescent to the 80s. They really had the church shoved down their throats. Only very strong active members had them in their homes. I had many friendships with them. Just being kids we had fun and we discuss the church. Native Americans have been done so wrong by the LDS.
I remember my childhood friend’s “Indian sister.” She was so very sad. Plus, she was made to take care of all 7 of the kids, clean, etc. And I remember comments about her skin becoming more white and delightsome.
My brother married a Morman, and they adopted a little boy who was probably Navajo. He grew up in a small Mormon community. He had a rough time. I thank you for giving me a clearer perspective of what he went through as well as some of the weird statements my SIL made.
This was a very interesting episode. I grew up as a Mormon. I am from Canada. In Canada there was residential schools for indigenous children that were pulled out of reserves and they actually " beat the Indian out of these children" my ex's grandmother was at one of these residential schools that were from the Catholic Church. . She would never speak about her upbringing. There were murders of some of these children.
Some were murdered, MANY starved to death or died of the cold, many were raped, nearly all were beaten. Many of t he kids taken just never came back home & the school would say they ran away years ago- but never told the parents. SO wrong. Soooo terrible.
As a Kansas City girlie … I promise you … there is NO Garden of Eden in Jackson County, MO. It’s 105 degrees here today and I don’t think any heavenly garden would get that hot 🥵
Lol. I lived in independence, MO, the supposed location of the Garden of Eden in Jackson County. I left the state entirely to escape the heat. Hello from Wisconsin.
My parents took in my native American sister. I was very young 6 or 7 she was a teenager. Whom stayed with my family a few years. She got pregnant and stayed until her baby was close to one. We kept in contact with her. Until her passing. My Grandma took in a couple girls as well. Maybe for a school year. I never heard them talk about her skin color. I would of been mortified. These real screwed up teachings are the ones that had me questioning the most. I questioned everything from a young age. By the time i was 13. I refused to go to church. Now that I'm older and learning/relearning the beliefs. It just blows my mind. The control religion truly has on humanity. Thanks for all your work ladies. Spreading the truth. Much Love Sisters❤❤❤
Thank you for sharing! I always hope that the children who were placed into new homes were treated well. It’s not always the case, but I’m glad your family was kind to her.
I was working with my brother in law when two missionary's showed up. My brother in law told them we didn't want to talk to them. However, if they visited the house across the road he was sure he would talk to them. An hour and a half later we saw them leave the house. They stood on the side walk and looked lost. Finally the figure out where there car was and headed that direction..They never came back. The joke was the guy who lived across the street was a minister in the local church. He was not Mormon. However, he had done his PhD on the LDS church. He knew more about their church then they ever would and the gave them a lesson on what the LDS was all about. I wondered if they left the LDS.
If you are ever interested, I have a different point of view. I grew up in Utah in a VERY small town where my family was one- if not very few that was not part of "the church" (as they called it). Before the population was as large as it is now. My earliest memory with the Mormons was when I was in first grade and I was making friends on the playground and I asked a girl if we could play after school she returned the next day after asking her parents and said "My parents say your not Mormon so I can't play with you." My bosses, teachers, my peers, and their parents always made me feel like I "didn't belong." But through life and growth, when people ask me about how I feel about them I always reply "I just feel bad for them because they are always told they will never be good enough." So I just tell everyone here. You are good enough. No matter what seems like "everyone" telling you that you are not. And just because people hurt you its not because you're the problem, in fact in most cases- you are just the release for all the suffering they are having.
Thank you for your story. Thank you for reminding us that each of us is enough. I use to think I needed to be less shy, more sociable, have more friends etc but lately I came to realize I am enough. All these things make me who I am. I am not causing harm to anyone so I need to change nothing.
I too experienced ostracism as a kid. As a non Mormon the neighbors kids weren't allowed to play with us. A strange thing for a six year old to deal with but it is the way it was.
You've been doing this for a year and will be at a million. Great job Shelise. I found you entirely by accident and watch every single show. If I miss one I always get back to it
Thank you for addressing the Lamanite Program! My family participated. I was 6-7 yo when we "adopted a Lamanite". It impacted my family in unanticipated ways. It also made it so much harder for me to leave "The" Church. Thank you so much for putting this together! Healing. ❤
My grandpa who was an ex preacher(Christian) he set me down at a young age and told me to take the Bible for what it says to me not what others say. Cause everyone interprets differently and that’s alright. I am not religious but he was. I feel most religions try to push their views. Love listening. I find this interesting as I have friends who are Mormon and many others.
An ex boyfriend of mine is a native American. He was one if those kids that was taken off the reservation from his parents on the reservation in NM at age seven and placed with a white mormon family in UT. He spoke no English and was scared to death! Their plan worked on him though. He ended up serving a mission. I was supposed to wait for him but by the time he came home I had left the church and had a new non-mormon boyfriend who is now my husband. Anyway, he got married in the temple to a white girl so their kids aren't as dark, and his grandkids are blonde. I'm sure the church is happy about that! It makes me sick!! I've spoke to him recently and he's still a die hard mormon. I asked him how he, of all people can belong to this church!!
Two of my favorites. When you told the story about the man praying for John Dehlin to die-it reminded me that the very last time I went to Church, just a week or two before we went on Mormon Stories our Elder’s Quorum lesson was basically the same thing. It was all about prayer and how eager God is to answer them for us. The instructor-someone I know fairly well-told a story about a friend of his that prayed for his former son-in-law to die right in front of the person’s kids (there was like a custody battle or something going on that pushed Grandpa over the edge?). I kid you not-the point of the story was be careful what you pray for because God kills the guy like within a week. Here I was, months of praying processing my faith crisis with no help, and this was what I hear-that God is like an evil genie or a monkey’s paw. It was one of 1,000 straws since that broke the camel’s back. Glad you guys have another great video. Really enjoy listening to you both.
Wow!!! What?! That’s awful! People really don’t see the double standard, do they? Righteous murder….although I gets it’s everywhere in the BOM and Bible…
The power given to these men to control people’s existence has to be intoxicating to them. The oily tone of self righteousness comes thru loud and clear when they speak.
I had been inactive from my late teens to early 20s, but tried to be churchy again for a few years in my mid 20s. I was also planning to go on a mission, but had to be worthy first. I was on high doses of SSRIs at the time for social phobia*, so I had a VERY reduced sex drive (it's a side effect of the SSRIs). I had gotten my first temple recommend after a couple months of being active again, and confessing about this stuff from while I was inactive to the bishop and then not touching myself for a few months (SSRIs helped that). My worthiness for a mission also hinged on this. But I eventually slipped ONCE after like 4 or 5 months (I didn't even look at any porn), so I "had" to confess to the bishop, and I lost my temple recommend before ever using it (the closest temple was 8 hrs away). Later that summer went down to the temple with the young adults group, and when they went in to do their baptisms for the dead, I had to stay outside the temple in the gardens. So they all knew that I couldn't get a recommend because of something (I didn't tell them why--it felt "dirty" and demeaning telling the bishop). I wasn't going to go at all, but they convinced to still come anyway for the socializing while driving, and it was a nice trip, nobody was judging me for not having the recommend (you know... Other than God... 🙄). I'm a lot less uncomfortable about it now, but some of that discomfort still hangs with me to this day and a part of me still feels like I've done something wrong to this day, even though I've been an atheist for 20 years and I KNOW there's nothing wrong with it and it's healthy. Frustrating how that programming sticks with you underneath. * Social Phobia: Gee, always worried about being judged... Where oh where could THAT come from?? Thanks for making your videos!
How many Mormon men just lie to the "Bishop" ,also your local plumber or garage mechanic, and continue to participate in "The Church ?" This is not any business of a pervy older man,
So sorry that happened to you!! I had a mission companion who "struggled" with masturbation and I got to hear all about it since we were together 24/7. She ended up going to talk with the mission president and I always thought it was so wierd we had to tell a grown man about our sexual feelings, etc. SO CREEPY!
I think an interesting tactic the church employs is constantly telling its members, we are a peculiar people, we are and have been persecuted for our beliefs, and that's OKAY. It prepares you to fight off the people who speak the truth about the church and its teachings, because we were prepared to be persecuted. We are persecuted because we are SO correct and righteous, NOT because all the teachings are utter BS.
Absolutely. The persecution complex is STRONG. Evangelical Christians teach and believe the same thing, and they are the least “persecuted” group in America. They have tremendous political power and influence, but these people want to be oppressed for their beliefs SO BADLY.
I was born into a Lutheran church but grew up Open Brethren. I was baptized similarly as a Brethren, but I was also "sprinkled" as a baby; Brethren only baptize adults. The youngest I saw baptized was baptised the same day as me and I believe he was 12. My papa was the one who dunked me, and he was very proud of that. We were in black robes, much like choir robes, and wore bathing suits underneath. Shelise, if you can find some Open Brethren who escaped they'll be interesting to talk with. The theology isn't hard, the liturgy is basically nonexistent, but the control is very, very high. Especially for women. And, because each "Bible Chapel" is basically an island unto themselves, there's no oversight. You're at the mercy of the Council of Elders and your male relatives. I have so many stories.
That cartoon made me want to claw my eyes out. The more I learn, the more I am so shocked at how patient folks outside the church were with me when I joined.
Even though they were trying to make it less obvious than in the past, I eventually caught on to the racist undercurrent during my time as a Mormon in the 1990s. That was part of what broke my faith in the church.
Am African American raised my children in the church. Am 75. There were good things but you had to know. It's better to know than not know. There is racist undercurrent in USA. Be proud of who you are. Also was raised Baptist. We r His children
❤❤❤ Thank you for being someone to speak up against the genocide of the Native American/ American Indian communities!!! Let's keep these communities in our hearts and minds and help them right the wrongs and injustices!! ❤❤❤
Geez. Glad mom was an atheist ! I am getting so tired of self-righteous, arrogant old men trying to run communities, governments, childrens’s lives. Really creepy.🤮🤮🤮
The problem is man not God. The problem is always man, unfortunately. Man loves power and that corrupts him and he uses God as an excuse. This is prevalent in every religion and faith around the world unfortunately:(
Atheists have the highest body count as well as indoctrination programs in schools. Also the most sadistic ways of terminating groups of people ever seen in history. Hitler claimed to be scintific atheist as well as Stalin - just look at atheistic China. Also there is very peculiar connection between ideologies which claim scientific atheism and unusual sadism - the first atheistic state ever existing was French republic in French revolution, they used the term scientific atheism as the first political body. They were the first ones trying to mass gas people, also what is it with atheist ideologies and wearing human skin clothes - shared both with french scientific atheists as well as german scientific atheists aka Nazis. I would be bit worried to have same morals as the church of satan has - it´s uncanny that atheism and church of satan are proclaiming nearly identical morals and sets of values... Just saying. If you go by history of ideology - there is no other in history getting even close to sadism and body counts of atheistic ideologies. Look at baby breeding farms of scientific atehists nazis made to breed perfect Arian babies. Even Islam has smaller body count and sadism than atheism has, which is a lot. As it is incredibly violent by ideology. But nowere near the atheism.
Growing up we used to have classes about Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and study the practices and history. I was appalled that kids i went to school with that didnt know their own history. I dont do organized religion anymore.
I grew up under Spencer W. Kimball. I am part Native and I remember him saying about White and delightsome. That use to be in the Book of Mormon. Then they changed "White and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome."
Absolutely I grew up with that teaching too and remember that being said and taught very much. Even as a young child I thought it was so strange and bothersome. I thought how is being white any better than anyone else? How can anyone help what color their skin is, we don’t get to choose that? I could not fathom that God would love anyone less based on skin color. So disturbing the things that were taught and the fact they continue to try to cover it up and pretend it didn’t happen. They never had good answers and reasons for these teachings.
Shelise!!! I saw her video from ages ago, yesterday I think, and left a comment "Please have her back on" and VIOLA!!! Here she is!!! Amazing!! Thank you!!!🎉❤❤❤
I grew up in another faith but my parents lied about my fathers identity because he is Native. I was born before ICWA was put into place. I was stripped of my true identity all based off of religion. Before I found this out I became a member of the LDS church and have stepped away because their lack of not just accountability but the lack of atoning for what they did to Natives. I cant have faith in any organization that expects it’s members to repent, go through the full repentance process and atone for their sins.
I remember when I was in my young 20's, we had a very beloved Stake President. I thought he was an amazing person. His wife became ill and was sick for a very long time. He turned to another woman for comfort and ended up having an affair. Before they excommunicated this man, they church required him to go to every ward in that stake and apologize at the pulpit during sacrament meeting for his sin. He was then escorted out of the side door at the front of the chapel. I was shocked about what he had done, but even more appalled by how the church required him to perform this humiliating task before he was kicked out. This came to mind during the segment when you were discussing how the Church has never apologized for any of the atrocities it has committed.
Fantastic episode! I just found this channel and liked and subscribed because I've been confounded by Mormonism ever since I had a bff in elementary school and another bff in middle and high school who were very devout LDS. I had a chance to see it up close when I was 15-16 (and on my own years later) and went to my friend's church, attended dances and even accompanied her family on a family vacation to SLC. The very first red flag that struck me during the first visit to hear mass at the church was that when anyone came to the podium (mostly young teenagers) to speak they ended their "testimony" with "and I know the church is true". I thought omg that is so weird and looked around thinking "oh shit, this is definitely a cult". I remember going home and telling my mom what happened at church, and she told me next time to tell them that I already had a religion (we were catholic but not practicing at all lol) and I wasn't interested and literally like two hours later 2 missionaries showed up at our door. My mom told the missionaries that "we have a religion, and we like it. We aren't interested in test driving a new one". 😆
5 of my closest friends are LDS. We went to high school together and I used to go to all the dances too. I even went to temple pageant. They never tried to convert me or sent missionaries though. Just invited me to things, one of them went on a mission and she asked my permission to send a Book of Mormon. It’s wild how much they don’t even know about the history of their church, it trips me out. But I’m grateful for the mutual respect of beliefs from them.
I was LDS until about 7 years ago. I had never heard any of this! Thank you so much for bringing this to light. It's really validating my decision to leave.
I got a repressed memory from the video about the sacrament, I remember being 8, having just been baptized, and I stopped taking the sacrament, because I didn’t feel like I, an 8 year old, was worthy. 😢
I was raised secular but undiagnosed w/ ADD and autism until age 16, and, totally different show-your-work part, but I def still struggle with believing I deserve good things and that I’m allowed to succeed in life
I am Native American and joined the church as an adult (2004), also left. When I joined the church I was told that because I am NA that we are revered (never really told why). Because of this, I joined thinking I would be welcomed then quickly learned they lied and was treated less than everyone else, but told that if I follow the prophet and the commandments I could be worthy. Naive me fell for it. I was also told because of my blood I couldn't go to the temple or even have a calling until my husband was active, this was the only way I could be worthy enough. This is when I left the first time.
If you were told you couldn't go to the temple because of your blood, then you had a leader not following the guidelines. I've never heard of such a thing, and I'm sorry that you felt excluded. The LDS church is full of imperfect people who interpret all sorts of things incorrectly.
Sounds unreal or misinformed. I'm like you but, I pushed. Talked loud, ask why, and asked some more. I found out that not all people everywhere know all. I'm a big mouth navajo woman, great grandma and really look native and can stand up and speak and testify before hundreds of people. I learned I'm not less than anyone else. No one has challenged me because I speak the truth. WHY RUN WHEN YOUR FEELINGS GET HURT. They're not authority. I am and my confidant is God.
We are all have value because we are created in the image of God. This is Christ's teaching. The LDS church, on the other hand, is a false religion... hence all of these lies, falsehoods, and evil teachings. The Jesus of the Bible is Who He said He is... (The Son Of God). His grace is sufficient. Get to know Him!
What I heard when that man was talking about John from Mormon stories was "Its too bad John is using his platform to help others and not joining us in brainwashing more" Keep up the good work everyone 👏 ❤
Alaska Native here, like to live in my love bubble, but am finally opening my eyes a little more thanks to chanels like this and your friends. My neighbors are Morman and belong to the temple in Utah. Their daughter got married there last year. I thought it was strange as she is 19 and had never known her to date. When she told me her daughter was getting married in the temple I just assumed she meant their home church. Now I know that means a whole lot more, and keep imagining those Adam & Eve clothes. Wow just wow. They are great neighbors and her husband has a very high up job at KANA ( Kodiak Area Native Association) our medical and community outreach program. I feel like marching over there and putting this podcast on & say explain this? Not out of anger but I truly wonder what he would have to say, being he is in his late 50's. I HAVE QUESTIONS 😮
Subtext to their response would be "why do you think we came up here? There are so many Hebrews, I mean, natives to save!" No doubt they'll actually say something more like "it's in the past"
So So So Good!! Love this episode. Former Bishop left 7 years ago, I had a spiritual awakening that led me out and only within the last few years have I come across all the information that was hidden thanks to channels like yours! I totally remember being taught about the color of skin as a curse. The Rod Meldrum confession about his friend and John Dehlin, unF*cking believable you can't make this up! I am literally blown away. Praying that God would take John WTF! John, Shelise, and Carah keep shining the light on the darkness! The Church puts itself before the people it serves and only takes power from others like a giant energy vampire. Let's get clear that it is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Any teaching that promotes guilt and shame or anything less than you as a powerful, magnificent worthy soul is evil. Just calling it as it is. I totally was shown that youth worthiness video before I went on my mission. The guilt and shame the church promotes is evil.
Dude that's amazing. Not trying to be pushy, but you ought to complete the form on their website if you're interested in being interviewed. Would love your further perspective.
Great job!! As a former stake missionary that was sealed to my wife in the Idaho Falls Temple that left with help from Ex Mormons forJesus, God be praised for the work you do.
I absolutely love this channel! I'm not LDS but in the 60's and 70's I grew up in Boise, Idaho. At that time, there were more LDS there, per capita, than in SLC, UT. I witnessed so much hypocrisy, inability to take accountability, abuse and favoritism! I knew that I would never want to be Mormon, no matter how many missionaries knocked on our door. I was part of the Assembly of God church for many years but that's it's own ridiculous kettle of fish. Now, I believe in God/Source and I pray/meditate but ascribe to no organized religion. What you present in your channel is fascinating, and I hope many, many more people are reached. Thank you so much!
I've always wondered about the belief that families will rule worlds in the afterlife - with the father as the leader. Where will the adult children go? The ones who married and had children. Won't they be ruling their own worlds? If everyone expects their children to be in their "heavenly" family, then their children won't have their own worlds to rule, because they are tied to their father's world. And what about their spouses? Will they be with their fathers or with their spouse's fathers? It just seems like a very unsustainable MLM. Can someone explain?
The church teaches now at least (our leaders are learning line upon line) that husbands and wives are equal partners, and that each rules their family equally. The way the heavenly family works is unknown unless someone receives revelation about it, but we know it's important to be sealed together in family relationships, so that we can bless each other, and someday, we will all be one united eternal family with Christ. Each couple that is in the Celestial Kindom will continue to have children.
You are brave beautiful woman and as an African black woman raised in London from the age of 6 I am completely proud of you to my soul. Protect yourself they will come for you, please be safe 🙏❤️🙏
I enjoy both or your content so very much. I respect not only the personal growth and reflection, but just the bravery it takes to stand up in a crowd you know has stones on their pockets and say “this is wrong “ is inspiring. To do it in the face of the patriarchy as women is so encouraging to us all. Indigenous woman here, adopted by white people, and I would like to personally thank you for speaking on these issues, that are STILL happening. Iccwa is really just a suggestion. Magnificent work…
I just found your video on my recommend list. Less than a minute in & I'm subbed! Can't wait to see what else you have! Btw- I'm the nightmare they warn young missionaries about. I have many Mormons in my family & in the large apt.complex where I lived 5 years ago, the local stake had rented an apt. for 4-6 missionaries. They were so regulated & kept so busy, they always set up their beds in the living room & used the smaller bedrooms as a place to study. Generally, they were nice kids. When 4 girls lived there, I even baked goodies for them. (They were never allowed enough time or money to bake). A bunch of neighborhood kids decided to terrorize them by knocking on their windows & door late at night to scare them. They even threw a bag of dog poop into their patio. So I started to check up on them during the night(I'm a day sleeper & the girls knew I was doing that & knew it was my flashlight.) Once there was 6 boys living there. One night, I saw them trying to sneak in a suitcase of Coors Light (24 cans). I called my LDS family member & said(oh so innocently), "I think it's wonderful that the church finally decided to let young people be young people & allow a party once in awhile." She asked what I meant so I told her. The bishop was at the apt. about 6 am. The boys were gone by afternoon. Another group of guys had a black "elder". (I would always open with "Elder compared to who or what?"). Anyway, I sat down with him & his "Elder Shadow" in our courtyard. Immediately, Shadow (who was white) started with the hilarious line "let me bear my testimony". Nope! Let me start! I turned towards the black "elder" & said "Son, what in the HELL are you doing with this so-called religion?". You see, I've read the LDS trinity of books & have studied the church for years & all that that implies. "Elder Shadow" kept trying to take control of the situation. But a 20 year old brainwashed kid can't wrest control from a 50+ y.o. who's studied religions, sects & cults since age 8! About a year later, I was gifted with a short note in the mail from him. He had quit his mission (he was a missionary for only a month), went home & convinced his Mom & Dad to leave the LDS church too. That was a lovely Christmas present! I have so many Mormon stories!
As an ex-Mormon, I have learned many things about the LDS church over time. Nothing screams more "man made" than the history and backbone of the Mormon religion. Of course, the God of the Bible - in my view - resembles the behavior of mortal man more than a supposed benevolent supernatural being. I feel freer and freer over time. But, I still am dealing with an overtly religious mother and some elected officials in the States. But, the struggle to keep growing is well worth the efforts moving forward. Thanks for your channel. You are helping so many people. Cheers. (P.S. Do you know if the Mormons were pulling children from the Indian reservations by force? Or by using promises of making the childrens' lives better?)
We had several youth in our home in this program. It resulted in me and my sister being sexually assaulted. Unfortunately, my parents can’t even accept that this happened or talk with us about it. They are always bringing kids from different homes. Not all of them were messed up but I can’t fathom why my parents couldn’t just be okay with parenting us and even Moreso, why can’t they just admit that this abuse happened to their own daughters?!
I had never seen that cartoon before (the one shown at around 11:50). I'll bet the Church leaders were hoping that nobody ever bothered to keep a copy. For anyone wondering, the cartoon is clearly telling the story set out in the second chapter of 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon. According to that chapter, some good Lamanites joined forces with the Nephites to defend their righteous communities against the "Gadianton Robbers". What the little girl is saying in the cartoon is not a fanciful interpretation of ambiguous scriptural passages in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon literally says that the Lamanites turned white as a result of joining with the Nephites and converting to the true faith. 3 Nephi 2: 14 And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; 15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites; 16 And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair, and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites. The "Prophet" Spencer W. Kimball was the one most responsible for the "Indian Placement Program" and was also the guy who claimed that younger generations of the modern "Lamanites" (e.g. Navajo) who were growing up in the church were lighter than their parents. Most of this was going on in the 1960s, when Kimball was an Apostle (i.e. before he became the top prophet guy). Ministering to the "Lamanites" was like Kimball's pet project and gimmick for promoting himself. Guys like Hinckley seemed to be actual non-believers who nonetheless succeeded in making a good career in church leadership. That's probably why Hinckley in interviews with non-Mormons back-pedaled and obfuscated. He didn't really believe in the"weird uncle in the attic" doctrines, so he was fine with throwing them under the bus and telling people to "move on, nothing to see here." Spencer W. Kimball, on the other hand, seemed to be a true believer who apparently really thought that he was "helping" the descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. Kimball never seemed to be particularly bright. Spencer was the grandson of the extremely enthusiastic polygamist, Heber C. Kimball. Spencer's nephew, Henry B. Eyring, is currently a member of the Church's highest ranking administrative body, the First Presidency. (Remember, the word "nepotism" literally has the same origin as the word "nephew".)
Both my Dad and myself are ex-mormons. Myself for the past 27 years and himself 20 years. We sit down at least once a month and try to unravel the trauma of the indoctrination. Every sit-down adding more and more to the very complex dynamics of that trauma and yet COMPLETELY different prospectives as he converted when I was 5 months old with my Mother (whom is fanatically devoted, my parents have since divorced and for my own emotional safety had to disconnect from over 7 years ago). My indoctrination started as a child, my Dad as a child came from unimaginable abuse by the hands of his step-father. The combination of complex unhealed trauma and the indoctrination of the church made my childhood EXTREMELY chaotic and unsafe. My Dad has since apologized and has IMMENSE guilt and anguish over this. THE BIGGEST damage the church (see I do "the church" thing as well -- STILL) causes ESPECIALLY to converts is take their damage, pain and vulnerabilities and council them to believe they don't need any other support other than them. You seek guidance from your bishop who has ZERO education or background in mental health. In fact, it felt they avoided anyone who might have any knowledge or education in that field to have a place in leadership. My last bishop, the one who married my husband and I, was a converted carpenter. A bishop prior to that was unheard of, and yet, he was a lovely man filled with understanding, empathy, and how teenagers are not flawed or sinful, yet normal. One of my Dad's last acts of compassion as a member was to tell the parents of a youth, whom my father was very close to as he was both his young mens leader and Scout leader that their son, whom took his own life came to him in spirit and has been welcomed into the kingdom of heaven and is with our Heavenly Father. Was it true? Did their child come to my Dad? I doubt it... however, he couldn't handle the torture that the church believes for these parents. He was 15. I don't know what you would call this. Irony may not be appropriate. However, both his parents were psychologists with thriving practices. BEAUTIFUL people who didn't deserve to feel terrified for the rest of their life about their child's salvation or if they would be a family again.
I was sexually assaulted as a young child I was told that I was the sinner. I was raised with the lies that Spencer W Kimball preached about a parent would rather their child to die when being raped rather than live as a soiled soul.
My dad said that to me too. I can not imagine ever telling my daughter something so horrible. 😢 Still working on getting the deep seated damaging ideas out of the back of my head years later
That's horrific and so heartbreaking! 😢 the blatant genocide and then literal human trafficking...how do people just pretend like that didn't happen? Well, and then blame the people who have every reason to be hurt and angry for having a founded and rational reaction...
I was raised mormon in Quebec, I think mormons from Utah are far more orthodox than other places in the world. When I was young I never heard of that doctrine of the skin getting whiter for black people. It is mind blowing! The part on John, reminds me on when JS ordered the destruction of the Expositor... deranging truth. Wow!
It is always difficult when the prejudices of the particular "christian" sect come to the surface with lights and sirens. I did not know any better when we were given First Nation children to become penpals with in Sunday school. My respect for the local Quaker leader came to an end when they invited other sects in to present on Sunday evenings, then, when the presenter had departed, we were told they were going to Hell. The more I Read, and the more I study religions, the more convinced I am to be Pagan. Of course, Christmas carols and music will make me a bit misty. I do deeply regret, and can never apologize enough for being a tool in dividing children from their heritage.
Just goes to show the prejudice taught by religion. Why? Because they are MAN MADE. Religion kills spirituality. Why? Because religion is MAN MADE. When are people going to catch up?
OMG! Shelise's face at Rob Meldrum's 'blessing' talk totally cracked me up. I'd seen the clip before and it's horrifying, really. Meldrum is sadly uneducated and ignorant and his faction of Mormonism is the blind leading the blind. Thanks, Shelise and Carah for shining big lights on these issues.
Kevin Hamilton was in my ward growing up. The longer it's been since I was forced to go to church in my teenage years the more clearly I can see through the silliness of the beliefs and teachings.
I left the Catholic Church hurt, broken and confused. I’m blessed I found a non-denominational church that encourages reading the Bible & it changed my life!! Once I read Gods letter to me, it was so different from I had heard growing up. I love my relationship w God. Love is important. I am no one to judge. I can disagree without judgement. I can love without judgment. 🥰🥰🥰
Same here ❤ Religion cannot save anyone… it is our relationship with Christ that frees us… it is so sad what horrors have taken place in His name and in religion’s name 😢
Kimball was the prophet when I was in high school. I remember hearing him say those words. Cringe. 52 years old. Left when I was mid 20s with a lot of PTSD that I'm just now figuring out. Thanks for being here.
When I was 10 years old I met a lovely girl. We connected and quickly became best friends. I had never met any Mormons before and was naturally curious. I was welcomed to accompany them to church if I wanted, I went once to see how.it differed. Later I went to girls camp and joined the young women's meetings with her from time.to time. I was quite excepted even as an outsider. I often defended Mormons as some of the nicest and accepting people I had met(her family definitely was). Until her father passed away from cancer. Her mother met a man while she was grieving. This man was separated from his wife but still technically married. When it was discovered that they were sleeping together she was excommunicated, he was not. She lost her most important support system and all of her friends turned their back on her. She was allowed to come back(in a different ward) only after she had married that man. It was a terrible marriage and she again had to switch wards after leaving him. I had always had questions about some of their beliefs. After I witnessed this happen to a woman who was like my 2nd mother, I didn't defend the church followers anymore. She is a wonderful woman who still calls me one of her daughters though we have rarely crossed paths in the last 30 years. I will always love that family and hope that they have been able to find a more accepting crowd.
Oh my goodness!!! I can't believe I missed this AMAZING, first anniversary episode!!! You ladies "killed" it!!! Thank you both SO much for exposing the degrading and horrific lies - sadly, knowing these are just "scratching the surface." I can only imagine how relieved the former Mormons are when they encounter your channels and finally realize their own discerment was spot on! They must feel so grateful knowing they were right!!! I know I'm late on this but Congratulations, Shelise, on this, your fabulous one year anniversary episode!!! 🥰 🎉🎈🍾
Great upload guys! Kinda weird how the LDS authorities tried to discredit guys like Ed Decker, when he was telling the truth all along. Most just didn't want to face the possibility of their faith being a farce.
I was a YW leader in my mid 20’s and our bishop always pushed me to talk about masturbation with the girls 12-14 yo and I always said that I would not. It is non of our business. We were grown ass adults and we would be stepping way out of line there… I consented to teach them to be compassionate, respectful, smart, strong, indipendent, educated Young women. They let me go after a few fruitless meetings 😂 Guess I was fired for not complying 😅 osp
@@johnlee1352 well unless you have lived my life experience you can not call it a lie 🤷🏼♀️ but good for you that you know my life history better than me and know what every bishop that ever has said 👍🏼 I am not hating on anyone, my family is mostly LDS. I am just telling a little part of the life I’ve lived.
Same with the government and they co - conspire together to target , stalk , harass , and electronically torture American citizens. They level the victim of their abuse mentally insane and dangerous with absolutely no accountability I feel like a lot Of these people are actually deceived and others fully participate without a conscience
I grew up super Mormon in Utah in the 90’s and we were literally still being taught in primary on Sunday and at home that black people have the mark of cain, right around the time that interview occurred too.
I enjoy watching your content. It brings light to what people really go through in these kids of cults. My cousin who is a year older got into jehovah witness. She married an old man he literally looked older than my grandmother and that was back in 2016 at my grandpa's funeral
Growing up LDS, we always believed my disabled sister was super amazing in the pre-existance. So she needed to get a body, but didn't need to be tested. So, basically, her disability was to try and test my family.
Thanks for this collaboration! Great job. I get some comfort from knowing cults don’t last forever. Most of institutional religion is very cult like. Some more than others. They do lots of damage.
From 1999-2002 I lived in Utah. I knew Black, Hispanic and Indian Mormons who told me they rubbed limon juice on their skin to lighten their skin; they always acted like I was disrespectful when I laughed at them. I told them the church was disrespectful to them. There was an Argentinian Mormon who was pale white, whiter that me. He was a Bishop in a Spanish Ward in Utah County. He explained to me that he was blessed because he didn't rebel in his preexistence. His name is Leo Blanco.
"In order for children to participate in the program, their parents had to request their placement." They also had to be baptised members. I was recently listening to a Navajo elder(not a member of the faith). He recounted two pieces of their oral history. First, of a time when the holy ones were going to change the languages of the people and one man was closen to ask the Holy ones if they could keep their language, which they were allowed. He also mentioned they in part know that language and related to the Holy ones. A second is the holy one and the twelve. Think about it. He later stated that he believed their God brought them where they were with a purpose, and so did the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The program, in part, had members of the Navajo participate and was praised. It is also true that not all were happy but, in reality, a smaller percentage. Many individuals gained skills in the program, which is benefitting the Navajo people today.
Happy First Anniversary Shelise! ❤ That was fascinating. You and Carah obviously have known each other a very long time or are very good friends as you two really click together very well. The common enemy - the Mormon Church explains your bond too. They are so self righteous with that stick up their ass that you’d just like to grab it and give it a push or a big turn sideways 😂😂 Hearing what the church did to Native American children was sickening and it reminded me of something dark in Australia’s past called the Stolen Generation. From approximately 1910-1970 Our Government, Churches and Welfare Departments decided and had passed a law to remove Indigenous and “half-caste” children from their parents to be placed with white parents in the name of assimilation. The government though they could breed out the blackness basically. Of course that didn’t happen, kids and parents were eventually reunited with big 😢😢🎉payouts but so much hurt, pain and damage had already been done to families and the kids and the loved ones they were stolen from. No amount of money ever could fix that pain. So exactly what the Mormon’s did to the Indigenous communities here in Oz, they’d know the same pain as the Native Americans that were stolen from their families in the USA. That is he hmmm my so very sad for all of them who never kBnew their parents 😞 😈 😢😢 Lastly, Shelise that was me on Instagram Rowdyjojo that’s tagged you in that little video about the little girl trying the listen Linda and it wasn’t even a Linda. wanted to let you know incase ❤. 😮 😮😢
Thank you for this video! When I left last year, my dad said that if someone in my family “ends up being gay” they wouldn’t be welcome in his home. He was talking about my son or daughter 🤦🏼♀️ Thank you for speaking to that!
The Lamanite Placement Program is another disgraceful episode on our country’s history. It’s one of the reasons the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 was signed into law.
Love you so much!! Thanks for having me on! Crushhhhing it!
Love YOUUU! You’re a rockstar. So happy we are friends 🥰♥️
Great to see you here on Cults to Consciousness! You two women kick ASS!!!
@nuancehoe, quick correction, please don't use "handicapped," it's outdated and offensive. The correct word is "disabled."
@@nyves104I kinda like Other Abled 🤪🤣
I love both of you!
Being a FORMER LDS and a native American..im SOOOO GLAD I LEFT!! I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT ANY OF THIS.
I’m so glad you left too!!! Absolutely awful! I’m so so so happy you were never discriminated against because of your heritage❤️
Congrats on leaving 😊
Congratulations on leaving the Mormon Cult Church
What I don’t understand about this doctrine is how did they explain mixed race people or white passing people?
@@dewilew2137 yes someone like Jesus who was most likely darker in skin tone they probably would have not let him enter their church.
FYI: My Japanese mother in law clarified it for me.
People are Asian.
Objects are oriental.
I was confused and had asked her about the terminology.
I hope this helps others ❤
It does. Helps me not to be rude to people out of ignorance.
As a Taiwanese American- thanks :) 🙏🏻
My Japanese mother in law clarified that same thing to me!
I don't understand what you mean.
@@PaleMist Difference between description “Oriental” and “Asian”
I didn’t know what the difference was.
Wow. I have been a member for 36 years, and I am just recently learning the truth of the church history. I no longer consider myself a Mormon because I can not, in good conscience, align myself with such a religion that taught such horrific doctrine. The past matters! If past prophets taught false doctrine for 120 years, then that means the church is not actually led by Jesus Christ. Just another false church, led by false prophets. I'm done with it.
🙌 thank you for being open to the information!
Welcome to the light.
I left 45 years ago but, due to the brainwashing, it still feels like yesterday.
Read Sandra Tanner and look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Those really capped it for me.
Articulated perfectly. You put into words what I could not. TY.
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
Absolutely correct! I pray that more people have that revelation
As a Native American, this program is not only offensive, it's racist. God made people of all colors, races, and creeds. You can't erase someone's race, but try telling this to these so-called religious leaders.
Absolutely agree. It’s horrible and wrong.
They also claim that The Book of Mormon is the real history of Native Americans. They have a lot of racism to answer for
Evil, pure evil what the LDS Church teaches/taught per of these wonderful people diverse culture, and rich: history, knowledge, and contributions to the world.
As I've said before get to know a person their culture; etc personally and don't believe everything you hear et al, especially when it comes through history. History is not always truthful nor complete imo.
Eff the Mormon Cult Church Leaders!@@angietyndall7337
It surprises the number of Natives in this religion. Hope they find a way out
I am 65 and a former Mormon. When I was in Junior High, a native girl was placed with a family in our ward. I had no idea how awful it was. 😢
Thanks for sharing
Being a highly caucasian, pasty-skinned former LDS member from rural Utah who was raised in the church, I want to apologize for my part in perpetuating the stereotypes and misinformation the church indoctrinated us with. I know I hurt people, and not knowing better isnt an excise. Im doing my best now to combat this harmful rhetoric, and I truly hope those I hurt can find peace and healing.
Thank you for sharing and being willing to accept responsibility for any pain caused. We also see you were part of the system that doesn’t allow for pushback or growth amongst its members. We can all say “sorry for the things we said when we were Mormon” we learn more so we can do better ❤️
Thank you.
Thank you and I hope opening your heart brings you peace.
Thank you so much. I accept your apology❤❤❤.
Thank you.
My father left the Mormon Church when he turned 18. His main reason was the blatant racism within the doctrine.
My sister was beaten for dating a black man.😢 She married him and their kids are gay 😂 touche!
@@DeJaVuCa Nice. I actually dated a Mormon girl in high school. Went to a dance at her temple and was hounded and scolded by the adult "watchers" due to my inappropriate dancing. This was back in the 80's. Good times. Needless to say, that relationship didn't last too long.
When my sister was 16, her boyfriend was Mormon. He couldn’t masturbate, but he could pressure my sister into having sex with him. She got pregnant. His punishment was to “confess to the bishop.” Then they moved away to a new ward & he & his family never told a soul. He went on to do his Mission, marry a TBM & is raising his family in the church. He has daughters now. I wonder how he feels about their boyfriends & if he’s scared they’ll be just as much of an ass hole as he was when he was a teenager. My sister gave the baby up for adoption. The whole no masturbation thing is SO EFFED UP!
That makes no sense. Masturbation is a sin/looked down on but premarital sex isn't?? If he has a conscience he will be worried. A lot of people don't have thar though.
As a former TBM female, this is all TRUE!!! They can’t touch themselves but coercing others to do it for them is “fine.” Known plenty of guys who would sleep w/women then blast them around the church but marry some young naive “perfect” girl🙄🙄🙄I would call everybody out to their face, shaming them for their hypocrisy, but the leaders would try to make me feel bad for doing that…then I’d turn around and cuss them out😈😈😂😂😂I’m no longer a Mormon but don’t come for me w/“doctrine,” when I could out-quote you and show everyone how you’re full of BS🤣
@nomollyshere I've seen jehovah's witness documentaries and videos of ex-members and escapees telling their horror stories and that sounds like some jehovah's witness shit too. Ugh.
I’m so sorry that happened to your sister. 😢 And married people? The message is the same: pressure your spouse (usually the woman) to satisfying all your sexual needs rather than be in charge of your own sexuality and only unite with your loved one when THEY want.
The “No masturbate” doctrine left me with so many heavy years of hating myself. Also, when I left the morms I felt better about having unsafe sex than masturbate. Smdh. So unhealthu
@@ambam90and also the Amish
One of the interesting bits of trivia about the Book of Mormon is that one of the "evil" Lamanite clans (the "Lemuelites") was apparently named after the Smith family's old landlord, Lemuel Durfee. Durfee and the Smiths were originally on friendly terms, to the point that he purchased the land they were renting so that he could give them more lenient terms than their previous landlord had given them. His "thanks" for this favor was that the Smiths were often negligent on their rent, leading to friction between them, and Joseph Smith pettily naming a villain in the Book of Mormon after him.
😂😂😂 pathetic!!!
UnHoly Mackerel!!!! 😮😅
I've heard a saying that you should never piss off a songwriter or a sculptor... I guess we can add founders of new religions to that list as well!
Lemuel was lucky if he wasn’t murdered by them. It would have been fine! God told them.
This guy sounds like such a loser 😂😂😂
When that guy said leave the past in the past, it immediately reminded me of my mother. I was bullied going up. Every time I would try to talk to my mother about it she would tell me to forget about it, get over it. My mother grew up in a household where she was bullied, so in some weird way she believes that being bullied is normal and that she can't do anything about. This is the reason why I moved out of the house.
I’m so sorry to hear that ❤️
I grew up in a evangelical Christian church. Around the age of 11, I was diagnosed with a incurable autoimmune disease that made me extremely sick. A mentor from my church asked if I had some great sin in my life that could have caused this illness. When I responded that I didn’t know, she proceeded to tell me that it’s probably a punishment placed on me because my father was divorced.
That's disgusting! I am so sorry she said that to you.
Health problems are not a punishment from God for sin.
Good lord. I’ve heard of this very thing myself in Christian churches before, paired with twisted scripture, and it’ll never NOT take my breath away! How dare they!! You are not a sin, nor a curse.
What?! That’s awful! I’m so sorry that you dealt with that nonsense.
Victim blaming needs to end. This is just my personal opinion but I feel like when religious people try to blame children for bad things happening to them it's because they don't have an answer as to why this child is sick, etc.Even though the Bible says humans aren't supposed to understand everything. Gross.
Your autoimmune disease is not your fault. There's no cure to these things. Having a chronic illness sucks at times.
Y'all I was born in Missouri and grew up JUST across the bridge in Kansas (the bridge being the one over the Missouri River) and I can assure you, Eden is not and was not EVER there. People that LIVE THERE don't jokingly pronounce it "Misery" instead of "Missouri" for nothing. 😂😂😂
P.S.
Cults to Consciousness and Amanda Rae are my new fave channels. The work you're doing is so important and you're so good at it! Love it and love you!
Mormon Stories Podcast is another good page on YT.
They talked about that in South Park and I had no idea what they were talking about
I love Amanda Rae, what a sweet beautiful soul. I wish someone would help with her audio and video. She could really help a lot of people. If anyone can help her with audio and video that's an idea of how you can help her.
For me, the most interesting thing about these conversations are not the things that are specific to one religion, but the patterns that emerge from all of them and all the forms of fanatism (including the non religious ones) and all the instances where people gain power by making the "outsiders" a scape goat. These patterns are the kind of thing I try to be very aware of, and I try really hard to recognize them in all my interactions, because they explain so much of the hatred and division that is so very present all over the world. Thanks for your podcast and for this fabulous episode.
Agreed.❤
I am 62 and I can remember the placement program. It was sad for them to be away from their families. There were many through my adolescent to the 80s. They really had the church shoved down their throats. Only very strong active members had them in their homes. I had many friendships with them. Just being kids we had fun and we discuss the church. Native Americans have been done so wrong by the LDS.
#SmokeScreens @@jaxgustaveson679
Nazi germany comes to mind.
I remember my childhood friend’s “Indian sister.” She was so very sad. Plus, she was made to take care of all 7 of the kids, clean, etc. And I remember comments about her skin becoming more white and delightsome.
Ugh. I feel nauseous.
So essentially slavery of them as well as all the rest
😢
💔🥺
My brother married a Morman, and they adopted a little boy who was probably Navajo. He grew up in a small Mormon community. He had a rough time. I thank you for giving me a clearer perspective of what he went through as well as some of the weird statements my SIL made.
I'm so sorry your nephew had a rough time. Hope and pray he grew up strong in love of Lord.
This was a very interesting episode. I grew up as a Mormon. I am from Canada. In Canada there was residential schools for indigenous children that were pulled out of reserves and they actually " beat the Indian out of these children" my ex's grandmother was at one of these residential schools that were from the Catholic Church. . She would never speak about her upbringing. There were murders of some of these children.
Some were murdered, MANY starved to death or died of the cold, many were raped, nearly all were beaten. Many of t he kids taken just never came back home & the school would say they ran away years ago- but never told the parents. SO wrong. Soooo terrible.
Just like Hitler.
Catholic residential schools also existed in the American Midwest. My aunt attended one.
It is such a sad and horrific part of Canadian history and we need to do better by our Indigenous peoples that have such a rich beautiful culture ❤🇨🇦
I'm ex-cath. So many atrocities in that "one true church."
As a Kansas City girlie … I promise you … there is NO Garden of Eden in Jackson County, MO. It’s 105 degrees here today and I don’t think any heavenly garden would get that hot 🥵
Lol. You are funmy. Thanks for the humor
Lol. I lived in independence, MO, the supposed location of the Garden of Eden in Jackson County. I left the state entirely to escape the heat. Hello from Wisconsin.
my heart dropped when Shelise said she felt triggered by the bishop’s interview 😔 we got you, you got you 💚
My parents took in my native American sister. I was very young 6 or 7 she was a teenager. Whom stayed with my family a few years. She got pregnant and stayed until her baby was close to one. We kept in contact with her. Until her passing. My Grandma took in a couple girls as well. Maybe for a school year. I never heard them talk about her skin color. I would of been mortified. These real screwed up teachings are the ones that had me questioning the most. I questioned everything from a young age. By the time i was 13. I refused to go to church. Now that I'm older and learning/relearning the beliefs. It just blows my mind. The control religion truly has on humanity. Thanks for all your work ladies. Spreading the truth. Much Love Sisters❤❤❤
Thank you for sharing! I always hope that the children who were placed into new homes were treated well. It’s not always the case, but I’m glad your family was kind to her.
I was working with my brother in law when two missionary's showed up. My brother in law told them we didn't want to talk to them. However, if they visited the house across the road he was sure he would talk to them. An hour and a half later we saw them leave the house. They stood on the side walk and looked lost. Finally the figure out where there car was and headed that direction..They never came back. The joke was the guy who lived across the street was a minister in the local church. He was not Mormon. However, he had done his PhD on the LDS church. He knew more about their church then they ever would and the gave them a lesson on what the LDS was all about. I wondered if they left the LDS.
They need to have him on Mormon stories or something to interview it would be very interesting
If you are ever interested, I have a different point of view. I grew up in Utah in a VERY small town where my family was one- if not very few that was not part of "the church" (as they called it). Before the population was as large as it is now. My earliest memory with the Mormons was when I was in first grade and I was making friends on the playground and I asked a girl if we could play after school she returned the next day after asking her parents and said "My parents say your not Mormon so I can't play with you." My bosses, teachers, my peers, and their parents always made me feel like I "didn't belong." But through life and growth, when people ask me about how I feel about them I always reply "I just feel bad for them because they are always told they will never be good enough." So I just tell everyone here. You are good enough. No matter what seems like "everyone" telling you that you are not. And just because people hurt you its not because you're the problem, in fact in most cases- you are just the release for all the suffering they are having.
Thank you for your story. Thank you for reminding us that each of us is enough. I use to think I needed to be less shy, more sociable, have more friends etc but lately I came to realize I am enough. All these things make me who I am. I am not causing harm to anyone so I need to change nothing.
❤❤❤
That you for sharing. You are good enough too! 🥰
I too experienced ostracism as a kid. As a non Mormon the neighbors kids weren't allowed to play with us. A strange thing for a six year old to deal with but it is the way it was.
the church teach to love everybody, it is an individual problem
You've been doing this for a year and will be at a million. Great job Shelise. I found you entirely by accident and watch every single show. If I miss one I always get back to it
Thank you so much for your support! Hoping once we hit 100k, 1 mill will come fast!😁
@CultstoConsciousness keep the quality, the quantity will follow 🩷
@@TS-iv9mlAmen!!
@@TS-iv9ml Well put.
Thank you for addressing the Lamanite Program! My family participated. I was 6-7 yo when we "adopted a Lamanite". It impacted my family in unanticipated ways. It also made it so much harder for me to leave "The" Church. Thank you so much for putting this together! Healing. ❤
My Mom is LDS, but she didn't raise us in the church. Watching your content helps me understand her so much better 😢
My grandpa who was an ex preacher(Christian) he set me down at a young age and told me to take the Bible for what it says to me not what others say. Cause everyone interprets differently and that’s alright. I am not religious but he was. I feel most religions try to push their views. Love listening. I find this interesting as I have friends who are Mormon and many others.
An ex boyfriend of mine is a native American. He was one if those kids that was taken off the reservation from his parents on the reservation in NM at age seven and placed with a white mormon family in UT. He spoke no English and was scared to death! Their plan worked on him though. He ended up serving a mission. I was supposed to wait for him but by the time he came home I had left the church and had a new non-mormon boyfriend who is now my husband. Anyway, he got married in the temple to a white girl so their kids aren't as dark, and his grandkids are blonde. I'm sure the church is happy about that! It makes me sick!! I've spoke to him recently and he's still a die hard mormon. I asked him how he, of all people can belong to this church!!
...maybe because it's true. By their fruits...
y la poliandria es verdad Jhon?@@JohnDLee-im4lo
@@JohnDLee-im4loyour religion is founded on white supremacy and racism, it’s 🗑️
Two of my favorites. When you told the story about the man praying for John Dehlin to die-it reminded me that the very last time I went to Church, just a week or two before we went on Mormon Stories our Elder’s Quorum lesson was basically the same thing. It was all about prayer and how eager God is to answer them for us. The instructor-someone I know fairly well-told a story about a friend of his that prayed for his former son-in-law to die right in front of the person’s kids (there was like a custody battle or something going on that pushed Grandpa over the edge?). I kid you not-the point of the story was be careful what you pray for because God kills the guy like within a week. Here I was, months of praying processing my faith crisis with no help, and this was what I hear-that God is like an evil genie or a monkey’s paw. It was one of 1,000 straws since that broke the camel’s back.
Glad you guys have another great video. Really enjoy listening to you both.
Wow!!! What?! That’s awful! People really don’t see the double standard, do they? Righteous murder….although I gets it’s everywhere in the BOM and Bible…
How horrible!
The power given to these men to control people’s existence has to be intoxicating to them. The oily tone of self righteousness comes thru loud and clear when they speak.
It's also the sound of HYPOCRISY!!
Great comment 👏
I had been inactive from my late teens to early 20s, but tried to be churchy again for a few years in my mid 20s. I was also planning to go on a mission, but had to be worthy first.
I was on high doses of SSRIs at the time for social phobia*, so I had a VERY reduced sex drive (it's a side effect of the SSRIs). I had gotten my first temple recommend after a couple months of being active again, and confessing about this stuff from while I was inactive to the bishop and then not touching myself for a few months (SSRIs helped that). My worthiness for a mission also hinged on this.
But I eventually slipped ONCE after like 4 or 5 months (I didn't even look at any porn), so I "had" to confess to the bishop, and I lost my temple recommend before ever using it (the closest temple was 8 hrs away).
Later that summer went down to the temple with the young adults group, and when they went in to do their baptisms for the dead, I had to stay outside the temple in the gardens.
So they all knew that I couldn't get a recommend because of something (I didn't tell them why--it felt "dirty" and demeaning telling the bishop).
I wasn't going to go at all, but they convinced to still come anyway for the socializing while driving, and it was a nice trip, nobody was judging me for not having the recommend (you know... Other than God... 🙄).
I'm a lot less uncomfortable about it now, but some of that discomfort still hangs with me to this day and a part of me still feels like I've done something wrong to this day, even though I've been an atheist for 20 years and I KNOW there's nothing wrong with it and it's healthy. Frustrating how that programming sticks with you underneath.
* Social Phobia: Gee, always worried about being judged... Where oh where could THAT come from??
Thanks for making your videos!
These are the kinda heart-breaking stories of spiritual abuse that are never shared in church circles. Thanks for sharing so openly ❤️
How many Mormon men just lie to the "Bishop" ,also your local plumber or garage mechanic, and continue to participate in "The Church ?" This is not any business of a pervy older man,
So sorry that happened to you!! I had a mission companion who "struggled" with masturbation and I got to hear all about it since we were together 24/7. She ended up going to talk with the mission president and I always thought it was so wierd we had to tell a grown man about our sexual feelings, etc. SO CREEPY!
I think an interesting tactic the church employs is constantly telling its members, we are a peculiar people, we are and have been persecuted for our beliefs, and that's OKAY.
It prepares you to fight off the people who speak the truth about the church and its teachings, because we were prepared to be persecuted. We are persecuted because we are SO correct and righteous, NOT because all the teachings are utter BS.
Absolutely. The persecution complex is STRONG. Evangelical Christians teach and believe the same thing, and they are the least “persecuted” group in America. They have tremendous political power and influence, but these people want to be oppressed for their beliefs SO BADLY.
Hear Hear!
I was born into a Lutheran church but grew up Open Brethren. I was baptized similarly as a Brethren, but I was also "sprinkled" as a baby; Brethren only baptize adults. The youngest I saw baptized was baptised the same day as me and I believe he was 12. My papa was the one who dunked me, and he was very proud of that. We were in black robes, much like choir robes, and wore bathing suits underneath.
Shelise, if you can find some Open Brethren who escaped they'll be interesting to talk with. The theology isn't hard, the liturgy is basically nonexistent, but the control is very, very high. Especially for women. And, because each "Bible Chapel" is basically an island unto themselves, there's no oversight. You're at the mercy of the Council of Elders and your male relatives.
I have so many stories.
I knew some Open Brethren people and thought it was like a normal church as it wasn't Strict or Plymouth Brethren. How wrong was I.
That cartoon made me want to claw my eyes out. The more I learn, the more I am so shocked at how patient folks outside the church were with me when I joined.
Even though they were trying to make it less obvious than in the past, I eventually caught on to the racist undercurrent during my time as a Mormon in the 1990s. That was part of what broke my faith in the church.
Do you think the prejudice and other ‘unsightly’ attitudes are going underground?
Am African American raised my children in the church. Am 75. There were good things but you had to know. It's better to know than not know. There is racist undercurrent in USA. Be proud of who you are. Also was raised Baptist. We r His children
@@Ketowski heck no Trump was prez. I still shudder
❤❤❤
Thank you for being someone to speak up against the genocide of the Native American/ American Indian communities!!! Let's keep these communities in our hearts and minds and help them right the wrongs and injustices!!
❤❤❤
🙏🏼 Well said ❤
Geez. Glad mom was an atheist ! I am getting so tired of self-righteous, arrogant old men trying to run communities, governments, childrens’s lives. Really creepy.🤮🤮🤮
The problem is man not God. The problem is always man, unfortunately. Man loves power and that corrupts him and he uses God as an excuse. This is prevalent in every religion and faith around the world unfortunately:(
... lol... sounds like you're trying to prove something...
Atheists have the highest body count as well as indoctrination programs in schools. Also the most sadistic ways of terminating groups of people ever seen in history. Hitler claimed to be scintific atheist as well as Stalin - just look at atheistic China. Also there is very peculiar connection between ideologies which claim scientific atheism and unusual sadism - the first atheistic state ever existing was French republic in French revolution, they used the term scientific atheism as the first political body. They were the first ones trying to mass gas people, also what is it with atheist ideologies and wearing human skin clothes - shared both with french scientific atheists as well as german scientific atheists aka Nazis.
I would be bit worried to have same morals as the church of satan has - it´s uncanny that atheism and church of satan are proclaiming nearly identical morals and sets of values...
Just saying. If you go by history of ideology - there is no other in history getting even close to sadism and body counts of atheistic ideologies. Look at baby breeding farms of scientific atehists nazis made to breed perfect Arian babies. Even Islam has smaller body count and sadism than atheism has, which is a lot. As it is incredibly violent by ideology. But nowere near the atheism.
Growing up we used to have classes about Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses and study the practices and history. I was appalled that kids i went to school with that didnt know their own history. I dont do organized religion anymore.
My relationship with Jesus and God and The Holy Spirit EXPONENTIALLY MUltiplied in gladness as soon as I left church!!!!
Love God and Love People ❤
Oh wow - are these classes you had at school?
@@sunnyadams5842 mine too. Praise the Lord!🙏❤
I grew up under Spencer W. Kimball. I am part Native and I remember him saying about White and delightsome. That use to be in the Book of Mormon. Then they changed "White and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome."
Exactly! I’m so sorry you had to hear that growing up.
Absolutely I grew up with that teaching too and remember that being said and taught very much. Even as a young child I thought it was so strange and bothersome. I thought how is being white any better than anyone else? How can anyone help what color their skin is, we don’t get to choose that? I could not fathom that God would love anyone less based on skin color. So disturbing the things that were taught and the fact they continue to try to cover it up and pretend it didn’t happen. They never had good answers and reasons for these teachings.
Shelise!!! I saw her video from ages ago, yesterday I think, and left a comment "Please have her back on" and VIOLA!!! Here she is!!! Amazing!! Thank you!!!🎉❤❤❤
Woooo! Love that! Wish granted! 😁🥳
I grew up in another faith but my parents lied about my fathers identity because he is Native. I was born before ICWA was put into place. I was stripped of my true identity all based off of religion. Before I found this out I became a member of the LDS church and have stepped away because their lack of not just accountability but the lack of atoning for what they did to Natives. I cant have faith in any organization that expects it’s members to repent, go through the full repentance process and atone for their sins.
I remember when I was in my young 20's, we had a very beloved Stake President. I thought he was an amazing person.
His wife became ill and was sick for a very long time. He turned to another woman for comfort and ended up having an affair. Before they excommunicated this man, they church required him to go to every ward in that stake and apologize at the pulpit during sacrament meeting for his sin. He was then escorted out of the side door at the front of the chapel. I was shocked about what he had done, but even more appalled by how the church required him to perform this humiliating task before he was kicked out.
This came to mind during the segment when you were discussing how the Church has never apologized for any of the atrocities it has committed.
Holy shit that’s awful
@@mercuryshadow5452 I was really horrible to witness.
Fantastic episode! I just found this channel and liked and subscribed because I've been confounded by Mormonism ever since I had a bff in elementary school and another bff in middle and high school who were very devout LDS. I had a chance to see it up close when I was 15-16 (and on my own years later) and went to my friend's church, attended dances and even accompanied her family on a family vacation to SLC. The very first red flag that struck me during the first visit to hear mass at the church was that when anyone came to the podium (mostly young teenagers) to speak they ended their "testimony" with "and I know the church is true". I thought omg that is so weird and looked around thinking "oh shit, this is definitely a cult". I remember going home and telling my mom what happened at church, and she told me next time to tell them that I already had a religion (we were catholic but not practicing at all lol) and I wasn't interested and literally like two hours later 2 missionaries showed up at our door. My mom told the missionaries that "we have a religion, and we like it. We aren't interested in test driving a new one". 😆
The Mormons don't hold "mass" you idiot...
5 of my closest friends are LDS. We went to high school together and I used to go to all the dances too. I even went to temple pageant. They never tried to convert me or sent missionaries though. Just invited me to things, one of them went on a mission and she asked my permission to send a Book of Mormon. It’s wild how much they don’t even know about the history of their church, it trips me out. But I’m grateful for the mutual respect of beliefs from them.
I was LDS until about 7 years ago. I had never heard any of this! Thank you so much for bringing this to light. It's really validating my decision to leave.
You are so welcome! Thank you for being open to hearing it! We know it’s not easy ❤️
Yeah...confirmation bias is a powerful thing. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
Thank you for your super Christian reply @@johnlee1352 😘
I got a repressed memory from the video about the sacrament, I remember being 8, having just been baptized, and I stopped taking the sacrament, because I didn’t feel like I, an 8 year old, was worthy. 😢
Noo I’m so sorry. That’s awful ❤️
I was raised secular but undiagnosed w/ ADD and autism until age 16, and, totally different show-your-work part, but I def still struggle with believing I deserve good things and that I’m allowed to succeed in life
I can feel this content helping me in ways I don’t even fully understand yet. Thank you to commenters and content creators both!!
I stopped taking sacrament because I self harmed and that was considered a sin. Which of course started a shame cycle of self harm and self hate
I am Native American and joined the church as an adult (2004), also left. When I joined the church I was told that because I am NA that we are revered (never really told why). Because of this, I joined thinking I would be welcomed then quickly learned they lied and was treated less than everyone else, but told that if I follow the prophet and the commandments I could be worthy. Naive me fell for it. I was also told because of my blood I couldn't go to the temple or even have a calling until my husband was active, this was the only way I could be worthy enough. This is when I left the first time.
What?! This is not ok. At all. I’m so glad you got out. This proves the mindset is still alive and well even if the teachings have been buried.
If you were told you couldn't go to the temple because of your blood, then you had a leader not following the guidelines. I've never heard of such a thing, and I'm sorry that you felt excluded. The LDS church is full of imperfect people who interpret all sorts of things incorrectly.
That last comment about what was said to you makes my blood boil. Plain and straight racism.
Sounds unreal or misinformed. I'm like you but, I pushed. Talked loud, ask why, and asked some more. I found out that not all people everywhere know all.
I'm a big mouth navajo woman, great grandma and really look native and can stand up and speak and testify before hundreds of people. I learned I'm not less than anyone else. No one has challenged me because I speak the truth. WHY RUN WHEN YOUR FEELINGS GET HURT. They're not authority. I am and my confidant is God.
We are all have value because we are created in the image of God. This is Christ's teaching.
The LDS church, on the other hand, is a false religion... hence all of these lies, falsehoods, and evil teachings.
The Jesus of the Bible is Who He said He is... (The Son Of God). His grace is sufficient. Get to know Him!
Sending this video to a friend whose Guatemalan daughter just joined the church.
There are so many Central Americans joining the LDS nowadays! I know of a few in my neighborhood
What I heard when that man was talking about John from Mormon stories was "Its too bad John is using his platform to help others and not joining us in brainwashing more"
Keep up the good work everyone 👏 ❤
Watching you both always reinforces that I made the right decision to leave after 40 years.
Bravo….👏🏾
Alaska Native here, like to live in my love bubble, but am finally opening my eyes a little more thanks to chanels like this and your friends. My neighbors are Morman and belong to the temple in Utah. Their daughter got married there last year. I thought it was strange as she is 19 and had never known her to date. When she told me her daughter was getting married in the temple I just assumed she meant their home church. Now I know that means a whole lot more, and keep imagining those Adam & Eve clothes. Wow just wow. They are great neighbors and her husband has a very high up job at KANA ( Kodiak Area Native Association) our medical and community outreach program. I feel like marching over there and putting this podcast on & say explain this? Not out of anger but I truly wonder what he would have to say, being he is in his late 50's.
I HAVE QUESTIONS 😮
You are not going to get any answer that makes sense.
Only do that to the Mormons who are in leadership positions.
Subtext to their response would be "why do you think we came up here? There are so many Hebrews, I mean, natives to save!" No doubt they'll actually say something more like "it's in the past"
So So So Good!! Love this episode. Former Bishop left 7 years ago, I had a spiritual awakening that led me out and only within the last few years have I come across all the information that was hidden thanks to channels like yours! I totally remember being taught about the color of skin as a curse. The Rod Meldrum confession about his friend and John Dehlin, unF*cking believable you can't make this up! I am literally blown away. Praying that God would take John WTF! John, Shelise, and Carah keep shining the light on the darkness! The Church puts itself before the people it serves and only takes power from others like a giant energy vampire. Let's get clear that it is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Any teaching that promotes guilt and shame or anything less than you as a powerful, magnificent worthy soul is evil. Just calling it as it is. I totally was shown that youth worthiness video before I went on my mission. The guilt and shame the church promotes is evil.
Dude that's amazing. Not trying to be pushy, but you ought to complete the form on their website if you're interested in being interviewed. Would love your further perspective.
Thank you and not pushy at all. Will do that!
Great job!! As a former stake missionary that was sealed to my wife in the Idaho Falls Temple that left with help from Ex Mormons forJesus, God be praised for the work you do.
I absolutely love this channel! I'm not LDS but in the 60's and 70's I grew up in Boise, Idaho. At that time, there were more LDS there, per capita, than in SLC, UT. I witnessed so much hypocrisy, inability to take accountability, abuse and favoritism! I knew that I would never want to be Mormon, no matter how many missionaries knocked on our door.
I was part of the Assembly of God church for many years but that's it's own ridiculous kettle of fish. Now, I believe in God/Source and I pray/meditate but ascribe to no organized religion.
What you present in your channel is fascinating, and I hope many, many more people are reached. Thank you so much!
I've always wondered about the belief that families will rule worlds in the afterlife - with the father as the leader. Where will the adult children go? The ones who married and had children. Won't they be ruling their own worlds? If everyone expects their children to be in their "heavenly" family, then their children won't have their own worlds to rule, because they are tied to their father's world. And what about their spouses? Will they be with their fathers or with their spouse's fathers? It just seems like a very unsustainable MLM. Can someone explain?
Put it on the shelf 😊
The church teaches now at least (our leaders are learning line upon line) that husbands and wives are equal partners, and that each rules their family equally. The way the heavenly family works is unknown unless someone receives revelation about it, but we know it's important to be sealed together in family relationships, so that we can bless each other, and someday, we will all be one united eternal family with Christ. Each couple that is in the Celestial Kindom will continue to have children.
I never even wondered I just considered it wishful thinking. Fell for some other crap though.
Being a Native American that is terrifying. Skin color concept in general truly crazy to think about.
You are brave beautiful woman and as an African black woman raised in London from the age of 6 I am completely proud of you to my soul. Protect yourself they will come for you, please be safe 🙏❤️🙏
I enjoy both or your content so very much. I respect not only the personal growth and reflection, but just the bravery it takes to stand up in a crowd you know has stones on their pockets and say “this is wrong “ is inspiring. To do it in the face of the patriarchy as women is so encouraging to us all. Indigenous woman here, adopted by white people, and I would like to personally thank you for speaking on these issues, that are STILL happening. Iccwa is really just a suggestion. Magnificent work…
I just found your video on my recommend list. Less than a minute in & I'm subbed! Can't wait to see what else you have! Btw- I'm the nightmare they warn young missionaries about. I have many Mormons in my family & in the large apt.complex where I lived 5 years ago, the local stake had rented an apt. for 4-6 missionaries. They were so regulated & kept so busy, they always set up their beds in the living room & used the smaller bedrooms as a place to study. Generally, they were nice kids. When 4 girls lived there, I even baked goodies for them. (They were never allowed enough time or money to bake). A bunch of neighborhood kids decided to terrorize them by knocking on their windows & door late at night to scare them. They even threw a bag of dog poop into their patio. So I started to check up on them during the night(I'm a day sleeper & the girls knew I was doing that & knew it was my flashlight.) Once there was 6 boys living there. One night, I saw them trying to sneak in a suitcase of Coors Light (24 cans). I called my LDS family member & said(oh so innocently), "I think it's wonderful that the church finally decided to let young people be young people & allow a party once in awhile." She asked what I meant so I told her. The bishop was at the apt. about 6 am. The boys were gone by afternoon. Another group of guys had a black "elder". (I would always open with "Elder compared to who or what?"). Anyway, I sat down with him & his "Elder Shadow" in our courtyard. Immediately, Shadow (who was white) started with the hilarious line "let me bear my testimony". Nope! Let me start! I turned towards the black "elder" & said "Son, what in the HELL are you doing with this so-called religion?". You see, I've read the LDS trinity of books & have studied the church for years & all that that implies. "Elder Shadow" kept trying to take control of the situation. But a 20 year old brainwashed kid can't wrest control from a 50+ y.o. who's studied religions, sects & cults since age 8! About a year later, I was gifted with a short note in the mail from him. He had quit his mission (he was a missionary for only a month), went home & convinced his Mom & Dad to leave the LDS church too. That was a lovely Christmas present! I have so many Mormon stories!
"Did you rob that bank last week?" "Hey, that's in the past. Leave it there."
As an ex-Mormon, I have learned many things about the LDS church over time. Nothing screams more "man made" than the history and backbone of the Mormon religion. Of course, the God of the Bible - in my view - resembles the behavior of mortal man more than a supposed benevolent supernatural being. I feel freer and freer over time. But, I still am dealing with an overtly religious mother and some elected officials in the States. But, the struggle to keep growing is well worth the efforts moving forward.
Thanks for your channel. You are helping so many people. Cheers.
(P.S. Do you know if the Mormons were pulling children from the Indian reservations by force? Or by using promises of making the childrens' lives better?)
We had several youth in our home in this program. It resulted in me and my sister being sexually assaulted. Unfortunately, my parents can’t even accept that this happened or talk with us about it. They are always bringing kids from different homes. Not all of them were messed up but I can’t fathom why my parents couldn’t just be okay with parenting us and even Moreso, why can’t they just admit that this abuse happened to their own daughters?!
You are two of my favorite people on the internet! Very intelligent, caring, and great sense of humor! Times two! 😊
Aww! You're the best! ❤️
As a former Mormon I say leave the past in the past, so I ain't going back to the church.
I had never seen that cartoon before (the one shown at around 11:50). I'll bet the Church leaders were hoping that nobody ever bothered to keep a copy. For anyone wondering, the cartoon is clearly telling the story set out in the second chapter of 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon. According to that chapter, some good Lamanites joined forces with the Nephites to defend their righteous communities against the "Gadianton Robbers". What the little girl is saying in the cartoon is not a fanciful interpretation of ambiguous scriptural passages in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon literally says that the Lamanites turned white as a result of joining with the Nephites and converting to the true faith.
3 Nephi 2:
14 And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites;
15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;
16 And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair, and they were numbered among the Nephites, and were called Nephites.
The "Prophet" Spencer W. Kimball was the one most responsible for the "Indian Placement Program" and was also the guy who claimed that younger generations of the modern "Lamanites" (e.g. Navajo) who were growing up in the church were lighter than their parents. Most of this was going on in the 1960s, when Kimball was an Apostle (i.e. before he became the top prophet guy). Ministering to the "Lamanites" was like Kimball's pet project and gimmick for promoting himself.
Guys like Hinckley seemed to be actual non-believers who nonetheless succeeded in making a good career in church leadership. That's probably why Hinckley in interviews with non-Mormons back-pedaled and obfuscated. He didn't really believe in the"weird uncle in the attic" doctrines, so he was fine with throwing them under the bus and telling people to "move on, nothing to see here."
Spencer W. Kimball, on the other hand, seemed to be a true believer who apparently really thought that he was "helping" the descendants of the Book of Mormon Lamanites. Kimball never seemed to be particularly bright. Spencer was the grandson of the extremely enthusiastic polygamist, Heber C. Kimball. Spencer's nephew, Henry B. Eyring, is currently a member of the Church's highest ranking administrative body, the First Presidency. (Remember, the word "nepotism" literally has the same origin as the word "nephew".)
Both my Dad and myself are ex-mormons. Myself for the past 27 years and himself 20 years. We sit down at least once a month and try to unravel the trauma of the indoctrination. Every sit-down adding more and more to the very complex dynamics of that trauma and yet COMPLETELY different prospectives as he converted when I was 5 months old with my Mother (whom is fanatically devoted, my parents have since divorced and for my own emotional safety had to disconnect from over 7 years ago).
My indoctrination started as a child, my Dad as a child came from unimaginable abuse by the hands of his step-father. The combination of complex unhealed trauma and the indoctrination of the church made my childhood EXTREMELY chaotic and unsafe. My Dad has since apologized and has IMMENSE guilt and anguish over this.
THE BIGGEST damage the church (see I do "the church" thing as well -- STILL) causes ESPECIALLY to converts is take their damage, pain and vulnerabilities and council them to believe they don't need any other support other than them. You seek guidance from your bishop who has ZERO education or background in mental health. In fact, it felt they avoided anyone who might have any knowledge or education in that field to have a place in leadership. My last bishop, the one who married my husband and I, was a converted carpenter. A bishop prior to that was unheard of, and yet, he was a lovely man filled with understanding, empathy, and how teenagers are not flawed or sinful, yet normal.
One of my Dad's last acts of compassion as a member was to tell the parents of a youth, whom my father was very close to as he was both his young mens leader and Scout leader that their son, whom took his own life came to him in spirit and has been welcomed into the kingdom of heaven and is with our Heavenly Father. Was it true? Did their child come to my Dad? I doubt it... however, he couldn't handle the torture that the church believes for these parents. He was 15.
I don't know what you would call this. Irony may not be appropriate. However, both his parents were psychologists with thriving practices. BEAUTIFUL people who didn't deserve to feel terrified for the rest of their life about their child's salvation or if they would be a family again.
I don’t know where you live but out bishop is a doctor, stake president was a Vic president of a college
My very favorite 2 ex- mo girls.❤❤❤ Always love your dedication to the truth and your honesty.
I was sexually assaulted as a young child I was told that I was the sinner. I was raised with the lies that Spencer W Kimball preached about a parent would rather their child to die when being raped rather than live as a soiled soul.
My dad said that to me too. I can not imagine ever telling my daughter something so horrible. 😢 Still working on getting the deep seated damaging ideas out of the back of my head years later
Me Too ...
This is so horrible, I'm so sorry for everything you've all been through 💔😢
Scientology does the same thing. Instead of lightening up the grip tighter to members and make it so that people want to leave even more
That's horrific and so heartbreaking! 😢 the blatant genocide and then literal human trafficking...how do people just pretend like that didn't happen? Well, and then blame the people who have every reason to be hurt and angry for having a founded and rational reaction...
I was raised mormon in Quebec, I think mormons from Utah are far more orthodox than other places in the world. When I was young I never heard of that doctrine of the skin getting whiter for black people. It is mind blowing!
The part on John, reminds me on when JS ordered the destruction of the Expositor... deranging truth. Wow!
Raised IBLP/ATI - my childhood Is eventually going to be a movie. It’s the stuff of nightmares… but I’ve overcome it.. 💕💕💪💪Thank you for the channel
It is always difficult when the prejudices of the particular "christian" sect come to the surface with lights and sirens. I did not know any better when we were given First Nation children to become penpals with in Sunday school. My respect for the local Quaker leader came to an end when they invited other sects in to present on Sunday evenings, then, when the presenter had departed, we were told they were going to Hell. The more I Read, and the more I study religions, the more convinced I am to be Pagan. Of course, Christmas carols and music will make me a bit misty. I do deeply regret, and can never apologize enough for being a tool in dividing children from their heritage.
Just goes to show the prejudice taught by religion. Why? Because they are MAN MADE. Religion kills spirituality. Why? Because religion is MAN MADE. When are people going to catch up?
I love how you are both continuing to expose and call out the crazy. ❤❤ you both!
OMG! Shelise's face at Rob Meldrum's 'blessing' talk totally cracked me up. I'd seen the clip before and it's horrifying, really. Meldrum is sadly uneducated and ignorant and his faction of Mormonism is the blind leading the blind. Thanks, Shelise and Carah for shining big lights on these issues.
I was shooketh 👀🥲
@@CultstoConsciousnessis racism still taught today? Give me scriptures used and what about interracial marriage teaching
Kevin Hamilton was in my ward growing up. The longer it's been since I was forced to go to church in my teenage years the more clearly I can see through the silliness of the beliefs and teachings.
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
@@johnlee1352 thank you for your christ like example.
@@SeanTheBurritoMan Ahhhh...good old fashioned Christian judgment. Using Christ's name to try and shame others...now, THAT'S Christlike.
I left the Catholic Church hurt, broken and confused.
I’m blessed I found a non-denominational church that encourages reading the Bible & it changed my life!!
Once I read Gods letter to me, it was so different from I had heard growing up.
I love my relationship w God.
Love is important.
I am no one to judge. I can disagree without judgement.
I can love without judgment. 🥰🥰🥰
Same here ❤
Religion cannot save anyone… it is our relationship with Christ that frees us… it is so sad what horrors have taken place in His name and in religion’s name 😢
Kimball was the prophet when I was in high school. I remember hearing him say those words. Cringe. 52 years old. Left when I was mid 20s with a lot of PTSD that I'm just now figuring out. Thanks for being here.
I’m so happy you’re finding healing! Better late than never ❤️
When I was 10 years old I met a lovely girl. We connected and quickly became best friends. I had never met any Mormons before and was naturally curious. I was welcomed to accompany them to church if I wanted, I went once to see how.it differed. Later I went to girls camp and joined the young women's meetings with her from time.to time. I was quite excepted even as an outsider. I often defended Mormons as some of the nicest and accepting people I had met(her family definitely was). Until her father passed away from cancer. Her mother met a man while she was grieving. This man was separated from his wife but still technically married. When it was discovered that they were sleeping together she was excommunicated, he was not. She lost her most important support system and all of her friends turned their back on her. She was allowed to come back(in a different ward) only after she had married that man. It was a terrible marriage and she again had to switch wards after leaving him. I had always had questions about some of their beliefs. After I witnessed this happen to a woman who was like my 2nd mother, I didn't defend the church followers anymore. She is a wonderful woman who still calls me one of her daughters though we have rarely crossed paths in the last 30 years. I will always love that family and hope that they have been able to find a more accepting crowd.
Perfect example of the conditional love that appears so innocent from the outside. Thanks for sharing that.
❤❤❤ truth to light. Love it. Keep speaking and congrats on how fast you are growing!
Oh my goodness!!! I can't believe I missed this AMAZING, first anniversary episode!!! You ladies "killed" it!!! Thank you both SO much for exposing the degrading and horrific lies - sadly, knowing these are just "scratching the surface." I can only imagine how relieved the former Mormons are when they encounter your channels and finally realize their own discerment was spot on! They must feel so grateful knowing they were right!!! I know I'm late on this but Congratulations, Shelise, on this, your fabulous one year anniversary episode!!! 🥰 🎉🎈🍾
Thank you!!!
Great upload guys!
Kinda weird how the LDS authorities tried to discredit guys like Ed Decker, when he was telling the truth all along. Most just didn't want to face the possibility of their faith being a farce.
I saw a post somewhere as a response to someone saying "I'll pray for you."
It answered "Thank you. I'll dance naked around a fire for you."
I was a YW leader in my mid 20’s and our bishop always pushed me to talk about masturbation with the girls 12-14 yo and I always said that I would not. It is non of our business. We were grown ass adults and we would be stepping way out of line there… I consented to teach them to be compassionate, respectful, smart, strong, indipendent, educated Young women. They let me go after a few fruitless meetings 😂 Guess I was fired for not complying 😅 osp
This is a lie. Haters will say anything...
@@johnlee1352 well unless you have lived my life experience you can not call it a lie 🤷🏼♀️ but good for you that you know my life history better than me and know what every bishop that ever has said 👍🏼 I am not hating on anyone, my family is mostly LDS. I am just telling a little part of the life I’ve lived.
19:54 the church is an abusive parent...no accountability EVER!!
Same with the government and they co - conspire together to target , stalk , harass , and electronically torture American citizens.
They level the victim of their abuse mentally insane and dangerous with absolutely no accountability
I feel like a lot Of these people are actually deceived and others fully participate without a conscience
Great episode! Happy Anniversary
I grew up super Mormon in Utah in the 90’s and we were literally still being taught in primary on Sunday and at home that black people have the mark of cain, right around the time that interview occurred too.
I enjoy watching your content. It brings light to what people really go through in these kids of cults.
My cousin who is a year older got into jehovah witness. She married an old man he literally looked older than my grandmother and that was back in 2016 at my grandpa's funeral
Growing up LDS, we always believed my disabled sister was super amazing in the pre-existance. So she needed to get a body, but didn't need to be tested. So, basically, her disability was to try and test my family.
I would TOTALLY buy an "agent of satan" shirt.
Thanks for this collaboration! Great job. I get some comfort from knowing cults don’t last forever. Most of institutional religion is very cult like. Some more than others. They do lots of damage.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
From 1999-2002 I lived in Utah. I knew Black, Hispanic and Indian Mormons who told me they rubbed limon juice on their skin to lighten their skin; they always acted like I was disrespectful when I laughed at them.
I told them the church was disrespectful to them.
There was an Argentinian Mormon who was pale white, whiter that me. He was a Bishop in a Spanish Ward in Utah County. He explained to me that he was blessed because he didn't rebel in his preexistence. His name is Leo Blanco.
“I just feel like wearing tank tops and kissing girls” might be my new tagline
as someone who shares your name, i concur. except i'm married, so no kissing girls for me now.
Congratulations on your anniversary and the interview.
"A Rocky Mountain Bible Fanfic Sex Cult" 🤣💀
This is literally my favorite description of the church ever.
@@silktish for reals
"In order for children to participate in the program, their parents had to request their placement." They also had to be baptised members.
I was recently listening to a Navajo elder(not a member of the faith). He recounted two pieces of their oral history. First, of a time when the holy ones were going to change the languages of the people and one man was closen to ask the Holy ones if they could keep their language, which they were allowed. He also mentioned they in part know that language and related to the Holy ones. A second is the holy one and the twelve. Think about it. He later stated that he believed their God brought them where they were with a purpose, and so did the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The program, in part, had members of the Navajo participate and was praised. It is also true that not all were happy but, in reality, a smaller percentage. Many individuals gained skills in the program, which is benefitting the Navajo people today.
Happy First Anniversary Shelise! ❤
That was fascinating. You and Carah obviously have known each other a very long time or are very good friends as you two really click together very well. The common enemy - the Mormon Church explains your bond too. They are so self righteous with that stick up their ass that you’d just like to grab it and give it a push or a big turn sideways 😂😂
Hearing what the church did to Native American children was sickening and it reminded me of something dark in Australia’s past called the Stolen Generation. From approximately 1910-1970 Our Government, Churches and Welfare Departments decided and had passed a law to remove Indigenous and “half-caste” children from their parents to be placed with white parents in the name of assimilation. The government though they could breed out the blackness basically. Of course that didn’t happen, kids and parents were eventually reunited with big 😢😢🎉payouts but so much hurt, pain and damage had already been done to families and the kids and the loved ones they were stolen from. No amount of money ever could fix that pain.
So exactly what the Mormon’s did to the Indigenous communities here in Oz, they’d know the same pain as the Native Americans that were stolen from their families in the USA. That is he hmmm my so very sad for all of them who never kBnew their parents 😞 😈
😢😢
Lastly, Shelise that was me on Instagram Rowdyjojo that’s tagged you in that little video about the little girl trying the listen Linda and it wasn’t even a Linda. wanted to let you know incase ❤. 😮
😮😢
Thank you for this video! When I left last year, my dad said that if someone in my family “ends up being gay” they wouldn’t be welcome in his home. He was talking about my son or daughter 🤦🏼♀️ Thank you for speaking to that!
That’s so awful. I’m sorry you have to go through that. Not unconditional love in the slightest.
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.
The Lamanite Placement Program is another disgraceful episode on our country’s history. It’s one of the reasons the Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 was signed into law.
Really? That’s awful!
Please vote in favor of iccwa if you can. But there are still ways around it. I was taken even with iccwa in play.
Beautiful work getting the truth out there in a kind professional way 💛