Simple suggestion without changing anything on the tree/gear: Stun Threshold also scales Push Resistance. (Or possibly Physical Damage Resistance also applies to Pushes.)
As a warrior main I hate being pushed HOWEVER what's worse, IMHO, if for any totems that I have to get pushed. If I cast a totem I generally need it in that EXACT spot and not pushed halfway across the screen.
They sold the “pushiness” to us prelaunch as a realism system. But instead tiny monsters can push us around willy-nilly, but we can only push monsters by using special moves. It feels like punishment instead of realism, and *really* feels bad for melee.
It's just a false good idea. Yes it's unexpected, slightly scary the first times it happens to your character. You can show it on a demo boasting: look we added something completely new the arpg genre. But in the long term it is just bothersome and unfun
Realism is only invoked by the devs to explain why warrior has to suck for some reason. Nobody pretends to care about realism when it comes to wizards casting magic spells but warriors have to move slower, attack slower, be less tanky because real life armor is less effective than fantasy energy shield, and it's 'realistic' to get pushed around by giant monsters which only inconveniences warriors
I'm down with that although I wouldn't mind a keystone [Take Root? Immovable? .. whatever] where you and your totems can't be moved by monsters / enemies / effects.
Curious where you can get that stat You cant lol Just use a stun charm Not very hard That being said, they need to make another pass on mob pushing and reduce it
I dont think your HP pool should be what impacts how much you push things. THat doesnt make sense. WHy would a bloodmage push the shit out of things if a warbringer with titans grip cant...
The best counter to this issue is just not play warrior because GGG has never been able to balance melee characters appropriately in their 10+year history.
@@m.h.4907 jfc he likes destiny??? no wonder everything he's involved in is terrible. And I say this as someone with 1k hours in both destiny games. They're awful.
Whilst I agree with you, PoE Melee Balance has always been an issue, I would also ask you which games you feel DID get Melee right? Personally in pretty much every ARPG, in my experience at least, Melee has always felt like the 'weakest' class. Diablo 2 for example, even with how glorious the Remaster was, melee still collectively remains one of the most requested things to be changed. Grim Dawn: Melee, whilst viable, is easily outshone by other classes. Titan quest, Torchlight, etc etc etc. Melee in ARPG's is almost a meme at this point. OBVIOUSLY some people can make their melee chars seem viable for sure, but in general opting to play a Melee Class basically means you are signing up to knowing that you are at an instant disadvantage :P Interested to hear your suggestions on how to improve it though for sure!
@@Raabbb-yt8xs Marvel Heroes did it right. Melee chars will never have the clear of projectile or spell types, but then it needs to be better at bossing. But marvel heroes was from Brevik and he is a god anyway because of D2 alone
The easiest way to do the fix is combine it with stun threshold, so melee characters are more resistant to it and it would make ranged etc. still affected with no investment. There's no reason for an extra push resistance stat. I should be able to stand my ground
They can go a step further too and stun mobs (or gain stun buildup) if they can't push a player because they have sufficient stun threshold to resist them.
Now imagine yourself running a map with slower cooldown recovery rate as chronomancer. You get surrounded by a strong monsters that you can't handle. You press your timestop. Anti-stun charm applies after you got stunned so it interrupts your 3 minute cooldown and you lose it while also being randomly snapped in a direction while being unable to roll out of the way, since the game just glues you to a monster that tries to push you. And you find yourself in a situation where that monster hits you 5 times in a row without you being able to do anything about it while your now also in the heart of monsters hive and die. What a game...
I always thought this was a bug and laughed when the white gorrila hit me. "Dude hit me so hard it decentralized me from the screen". Didnt realise it was a feature till way later
i saw the thumbnail and immediately though, yea, pushing needs to go. It creates SO MANY instances of looking bugged/out of sync, and even when it doesnt it steel feels absolutely terrible
Dreamcore, I will assume this was intentional and I'm here for it... sums up how I feel every time my "pushy" character gets thrown around like a glitched out ragdoll 😂
A big part of the problem is there is no animation happening on the characters side... when you have an antlion or rhoa pushing you 2-3 screens and your character is standing there sliding on their feet the length of a football field, its just a glitch. not a feature. You'd also get pushed to the side more often than being pushed straight back. Two forces pushing against each other will reach an equilibrium, for example, the push would slow down because the rolling of the enemy isn't adding new energy to the equation, it'd be losing momentum so you wouldn't be infinite pushed everywhere, you'd resist that pushing just based on friction alone. This one mechanic destroys all the good animation work and great models they've made for PoE2, makes them look like a college midterm project that isn't finished.
Hate that I agree. It's the primary reason why the game feels extremely janky right now. It doesn't help that there's *way* too many mobs that utilize this push mechanic. It's inflationary, and basically devalues the mechanic even if it didn't look as janky as it does.
I think one issue with this as well is that a lot of mobs get small moments of invincibility where they can't be hit while they play some spawning animation (delirium, for instance, but lots of other examples are around), but they still have collision boxes and move around. IMO, this is a major pain point, since the main defense for a melee character against being pushed into unfavorable (see: lethal) positions is to just kill, stun, or freeze the culprit. It should be one or the other, I think. Either mobs shouldn't get invincibility while spawning in, or they shouldn't be able to push you while they're invincible.
Weirdest push I've experienced so far was a few days ago when a random mob pushed me about half the way across a savannah map and everytime I tried rolling away it kept teleporting me back in the path of the mob.
I wouldn't mind this mechanic as a type of stun, like when the Count stabs his sword through you and drags you towards the wall, but when mobs tackle or roll at me, touch my foot, and suddenly I'm being dragged around, it never feels like anything other than a bug. You could even do interesting boss attacks where they grab and drag you into a big attack, so if you fail to dodge the grab, you can still get a another chance to dodge the second part of the attack. Want to add that the push mechanic is probably what makes things like that one monkey's roll so dangerous too, since you get dragged into the whole roll and take all the damage instead of being able to dodge out of it.
I've said this early on before when they decided to change the roll mechanics so you can roll through small openings, but since heavier armor comes with a movement speed penalty to you, it should also come with a penalty to the monsters ability to push / knock back the player, simple enough to understand and seems like some common sense to me.
quarterstaff has a issue that you often teleports inside a huge wave of enemies because the attack tries to telport you to comect the hit putting you in awful positioning constantly
Assuming that pushiness stays, here are a few thoughts. - Most of the things that push you should push you aside, rather than along with the monster's movement. - There should be a wider range of pushiness interaction. It feels like anything even slightly pushier than another gets full control of both of their movement. There should be a larger threshold of pushiness where neither entity can push the other, and possibly also a range where the effect of pushing is just significantly lessened. - Character pushiness should be affected by gear. If the principle behind pushiness being in the game is realism, then heavier armor and shields (which already slow your movement more because of said realistic weight) should make you more pushy, or at least push resistant. - What you do should influence the the effects of pushiness. Moving towards a monster pushing you should have some effect to push back and slow down the pushing. Certain skills and actions should increase your pushiness, or make you perfectly rooted and unpushable, especially the slower melee skills.
They add the roll so you don't feel like you are losing control of your character when attacking, then have this mechanic to make everything even worse.
BUG: When you, a small mob and a large mele mob align in this order. The large one pushes the small while walking towards you indefinately and you will be dragged across a huge distance as long as you are perfectly aligned.
I've made a similar complaint in my own content. I 100% agree with all of your points and especially agree that if they do not remove it they absolutely need to add a means to counter it because players - in any game - do not like having control of their character taken away from them. With CC we have ways to counter it via gear/passives, which means it's an active choice to either counter a CC or ignore it. With the pushing mechanic there is no counter, so you just have control taken away from you and in a very jarring manner at that.
YES YES YES. FInally a video about this! Getting pushed around is SO IRRITATING. Being a melee character already curses you with less movement speed opportunities. Getting sloshed around in a breach and having to dodge roll to get though ennemies is the worst.
It's no coincidence that many of the clips at the beginning show Steppes/Willow maps. Those are the worst maps in the game, much worse than Vaal Factory, because they are filled with tiny impassable chunks of terrain that you can get stuck on and which also block skills.
My favorite moment was when a pack of mobs somehow dragged me from one side of the map to the literal other side of the map during campaign in the Una's Lute area. The entire drag took probably 3-4 entire seconds.
This also rly annoyed me on my monk i played on release. The screen isnt actually locked onto your character, it follows it. If you blink, dash or get pushed fast you will have a Fraction of a second where you dont see whats right in Front of you because you are at the edge of the camera. I have literally no idea why they would ever do that. I havent seen ANY arpg ever do this before.
I think that Stun Threshold needs to be renamed and reworked to include BOTH Stun and Push Threshold. Call it "Stability" or something. This allows them to address the "Push" issue without having to also require us to clog up our defenses with another stat, when defenses are already thin. Stun Threshold is already pretty evenly distributed around the tree, so it wouldn't require many changes to ensure that all Classes have access to it.
Nobody would use it. the current issue that every piece of gear right now is Flat defence, Hyprid defence %, Health/Mana, Item rarity, Resistance, Resistance. there is 0 ROOM to not take these stats. normally you try to get 4/6 stats. usually the 2 resistances, item rarity and the % roll. Some classes need to get spirit which is very annoying and than gloves & 2 rings require you to roll Flat damage rolls else your damage suffers.
@@dodang_9147 Oh I don't doubt most classes wouldn't use it on gear. It would probably get most use from the tree, same as Stun Threshold. Push Threshold has the opportunity to be useful even if not capped, too, which would be good. For example, though 100% would make you push immune (if allowed), lesser percentages could make it so there is only so far you can be pushed.
@@Quen10k players already do stack push immunity. it is called evasion and block chance. if you evade an attack, you don't get pushed because you technically didn't get hit. I think warrior version of evasion is suppose to be block chance.
Another side effect of this getting pushed around is that some monster attacks/hitboxes move you out of the way of getting hit by them. And vice versa, sometimes they push you so your hitbox is no longer on them. Just something I've noticed playing with the palm strike skills a lot. (Also there with Ice Strike as it has a hidden teleport/lock on mechanic unlike Tempest Flurry)
I think the best solution would be to replace the strength bonus from "+ melee physical damage" with "+ push resistance / poise". A) This would make warriors the most resistant to pushes while enabling access to this effect to other classes without tree changes. B) Melee physical damage is a very specific stat, much worse than in poe1 because of: - the new damage conversion system - no real access to Iron Will and Iron Grip Idk how to balance this new stat properly, but it should probably react to enemy size like armour reacts to enemy hit damage. Say, at 100 strength you could be able to push smallest enemies with 0 resistance. At 300 you could push humanoid enemies. At 500 you could push boars and antlions. And hey, then you could add extra monster/map modifier "monsters have X% stronger pushing power".
It would be awesome if I could actually "push" enemies out of my way when my warrior uses Stampede, but instead I just get stuck on 90% of mobs, even ones way smaller than my character. The pushing mechanic overall feels like shit on warrior. Thanks for the vid!
So if armor can be heavy enough to decrease my movement speed past zero, why doesn’t that same heavy armor prevent or at least reduce the chance that enemies can push me across the screen like I’m made of paper?
I had an intuitive problem with the push mechanic, and it didn't become apparent to me _why_ until the little "gremlins" from Act 3 (Before the roll patch). From a design perspective, I completely understand where Jon was coming from, in giving the game "weight" and "feel". The problem with the implementation, was that if a larger monster has higher "push" value and can push you around, how in the hell did it escape the devs that creatures _smaller_ than the game character are both pushing you around and unable to be pushed back? (Unless you're of course using Tempest Flurry) It's completely antithetical to the design perspective argument, and makes no logical sense. Add on top of this that Tempest Flurry pushes teammates around, it all feels a little under-cooked and/or rushed. I still haven't played maces.
What i actually love the most about Warbringers passive block is exactly this, i dont think ive ever got pushed back since i took the Hunker Down node, not even in the juiciest Breach maps.
Don’t think they need to add a NEW stat, armour already has movement penalty associated to it so it has “weight.” That SHOULD have a benefit to it that prevents you from being pushed as much if you have an armour body armor and armour shield.
A mechanic designed to be "realistic" without consideration, there is no upside for this mechanic other than the people who design it to be like "oh I made it work", and if you think about the balance between builds, it's backwards, when monsters use movement skills they should use it like us, to close the gap between them and players, it should reward melee over range because of the gap distance being smaller, yet it's completely backwards, monsters only sprint or roll at you from a mid distance meaning range characters can largely ignore this when you one shot everything, while melee can one shot but can't one shot in time, had to deal with the pushback and even get your skills interrupted.
Watch them add a node in the Str area that reads thus: Immoveable Object: Makes you immune to pushing. -20% attack speed with melee. And one in the Int section reading: Unstoppable Force: Makes you immune to pushing while you have Energy Shield. -5% max Energy Shield.
Taking it out would feel weird to me. Being this immovable moving object in the game doesn't make sense either, though you definitely should be against most enemies that aren't massively larger than your character. What should happen is that rolling/charging enemies strike you, you get flung or stagger backwards a little distance, while they stop with a big thump and a puff of dust where they impacted you, rather than them carrying on in this long travelled distance beyond the point of your model crashing with theirs. The main issue is that they continue further and keep pushing you repeatedly, making it feel like desyncing and awful. Large heavy enemy attacks can also have that same staggering backstepping animation added since it interrupts you anyways. It needs refining, and pushing should be reserved for specific attacks. Not the enemy moving (unless they are massively larger than the player model, then some sort of staggering backsteps from them moving can be warranted).
It wouldn't be such a problem if layouts were at all logical, but there's always a stupid tree or singular rock that is actual solid geometry that gets You stuck all the time
Hear me out, instead (or in addition ?) of the current attributes scaling (life, accuracy, mana), do that instead : - STR : increase your weight, the more heavy you are the more resistant to push you are, and on top of that the better you can push monsters. High STR character would be like an inamovible tank that pushes everything out of his way - DEX : increase your agility, the more DEX the thiner you get and the better you can pass through monsters, a high DEX character would be almost phasing - INT : I have no idea for that one, maybe something with light radius, you can see further away or something like that
i think the big problem is that the mobs kind of "drag" you along with them in a bad way. like if they push you, it should be a single hit, and they should stop while you move.
What baffles me the most with the "pushiness" system is that there is no way (i know of) to interact with it. They bothered to implement it, why not use it as a new axis of character power. I would find it very interresting if they gave the melee strenght region ways to interact with the system. This could be one of the things melee characters excell at in comparison to other archetypes. A melee character might just have an easier time resisting beeing pushed around while others have to play more carefully. Also the other way around there is no way to push something by attacking it. This could be something that maces are uniquely good at. The game drastically lacks signature mods on the different kinds of weapons and armor, and they talked at lenght at exilecon 1 about how they want to make different types of items feel unique. I hope that they are just in a huge timecrunch and they come around bringing more variety of scaling your character power into the game.
For starters, they need to implement it as advertised - different monsters should have different values according to their size. Atm it seems that every monster has the exact same value. Furthermore, I wouldn't waste any Titan's Ascendency nodes on it specifically. Imho Titan should get free/additional push resistance values for each Ascendency point assigned (no matter which one), as a passive bonus, because Titan should be that 'Mountain' type of character, it makes sense thematically. Warbringer should perhaps get half of that, and / or push resistance should be simply an added Strength stat bonus.
it ALSO feels like a bug when a single monster carries you three screens away into a wall and just DOES NOT stop running. As far as a stat to counter pushing we already have stun threshold, why not just roll it into the same stat? Call it control resistance threshold and let me overcap it like a noob. And while on the subject, we should 100% be able to blitz through enemies with movement abilities. I recently got stampede and i was so disappointed to learn that you just run in place against enemies. I understand stopping on a big fat guy with a million hit points but it was actually less effective for moving through enemies than a dodge. In the event of a control resist stat (or otherwise stun threshold), skills like stampede or shield charge should use that stat to figure out which enemies they can or can't shove out of the way. It would be really cool for your stats to matter in such a visceral way.
It totally feels like a bug rather than a intended feature. I'd like to see them remove it because I don't see how they could ever make this work and they are already spending too much time bandaiding irredeemable features. You lose control of your character and that simply has no place in a game like this. Fun fact: The pushing also works in multiplayer. Besides the fact the each player has a massive hitbox and blocks each other, you can also push other players. A monk doing a combo in your direction can instantly push you multiple screens. Somebody walking into you might simply push you along, even tough you are holding down the key to walk the opposite direction. It's kinda insane how bad it is. Playing delirious maps in a full party sometimes made me actually consider rage quitting because of how bad the gameplay with the pushing by monsters and other players is.
Armour bases should also give pushiness resistance. Shields and body armour already reduce your move speed as they are heavy. Adding pushiness resistance would make them also heavy for the enemies and not just for you, which makes sense thematically and gives an actual upside for that move speed reduction
i have two builds as of now:a killing palm unarmed build,that often gets pushed around easily,making me litterally miss an instant skill...the other build is a strength stacker shield charge build,and getting pushed aside while charging,even i use a lot of cooldown reduction stuff,just feels so horrible and i'm not even past the acts.i'm forced to scale aoe to get stomping ground to knockback ennemies before they can push me,which,though going well with my build,is quite an investment since more movement speed means a lot more aoe needed for stomping ground aoe to to reach the ennemy ahead of me.getting pushed while channeling bonestorm is also extremely bothering since i have to position myself quite close while channeling,before using shield charge to consume all the debuffs from bonestorm,and getting pushed there means my charge might just go around the targeted ennemy,or go somewhere i absolutely don't want to be (right on a boss strong attack)
Adding an extra stat to the tree is the dumbest solution. Those nodes will be mandatory with a mace build. This will just tax those characters that already are getting screwed to be screwed just in a different way. Bake it into strength maybe.
Thank you at last someone called it out,also playing in party is really annoying since even between player we can push each other especially in simulacrum with some crazy tempest flurry build spinning like beyblade crashing and pushing each other it can be really tilting experience.
i don't mind the pushyness, especially for big charging monsters. It's really the camera not updating or stuttering that's the problem in my opinion. I would also just link ''pushiness resistance'' to stun threshold and call it a day.
I think this is mostly a case of a feature that was fun on paper, fun in testing, and as soon as it came to test it with actual servers it became super clunky and felt like rubber banding and it was too late. There's an argument to be made that even on paper it sounds like a nightmare (especially when you block each other in MP) but I feel it's a case of "oops we forgot it was an online game with latency lel".
They were so proud of the push mechanic that they added multiple types of enemies who were literally designed to push you, I swear a lot of stuff in PoE 2 is just completely backwards, LOL.
I've been pushed by a small sized dog 2 full screens until it hit a tree, i think it would have continued otherwise. The pushing needs to be changed, it feels so bad. What's worse is when i get staggered by blocking. There's full desync and my character just teleports around until i use a movement ability like charge or leap.
the "enemies push you over half the screen" was one of those things that annoyed me from day one, especially as melee titan it was rather annoying. and yes it overturned and feels like a glitch, like lag.
I think this is actually a cool mechanic makes monsters feel more powerful in a way, wish it was a stun that made you invincible and knocked you back instead of how it currently functions
What makes it better is when you are blocked by enemies that have not even spawned on screen. Delirium is classic for this. Getting launched across the screen by unseen monsters is SOOOO fun, lol.
This! For me, one of the worst offender is the boss of Apex of Filth. When that boss does the cartwheel-style attack, it feels like there is a huge collision cone in front of her just sucking me in an unavoidable ragdoll and it is absolutely infuriating. Thanks for bringing it up, cheers!
Stun Threshold should contribute to "Push Resistance". Shields and Melee Weapons should also have inherent bonuses to both Stun Threshold and an extra multiplier for how much Stun Threshold contributes to Push Resistance. And Active Block should prevent all Pushes.
I agree, 100%! Playing warrior, especially early in the campaign is AWFUL! This alone removes the whole concept of "POE2 will have better melee". I would rather play any melee skill in poe 1, rather than deal with this nonsense.
first time I just straight up logged out was when a deli mirror mob pinned me up against a bush during their invulnerability phase and then random trash mobs oneshot me from the edge of the screen. unenjoyable mechanic.
Solution to it definitely shouldn't be in Titan. That's one melee ascendancy, out of three for the warrior, with other melee classes to come in the future. Plus I kind of like the extra inventory space... well, I'd like it if they actually fixed all the bugs with it, and, ideally, just made it increase the size of your inventory, rather than this whole separate bag thing. But yes, it is something that needs work. When a feature looks like a bug, it probably isn't something you should ship with.
While I don't mind Stun & Push to be on the same nodes I'd like to go a different way. Perhaps STUN threshold could be related [more aggressively] to base life and/or life+es which effectively means the "beefier" you are the less likely you are to be stunned. As for "push" I think that could be related to STR and DEX in some manner. STR would allow you to "resist / mitigate" the push while DEX would allow you to avoid being pushed. I wouldn't be opposed to nodes like Giant's Blood [keystone] having a "can't be pushed" mod added so having nodes on the passive tree wouldn't hurt. This way STR, DEX, Life, and ES builds would have some inherent mitigation against Stun & Push.
Bro. The idea that i am a Titan. A child of Giants. Strength unmatched and implacable. Can be pushed half a screen by a running ostrich because thats just the mechanic. Level 80 warrior. Its pain. Dont even get me started on stampede. 'Here comes the pain traii-ooop, sorry. This bloke is roughly the same size so im not going anywhere... " An utter joke.😊
I think it would work with dedicated animations and stats like Stun threshold adjacent. Imagine one of those rolly Armadillo thingies hitting a char and seeing different results based on your build: -A monk would be sent tumbling but do some acrobatic move to land on their feet. If the players does a well-timed recovery based on the dodge roll! -Sorceress would get rag dolled or sent flying with a hard enough displacement hit but can recover with a clutch quick thinking teleport/time reset! -The Gigachad warrior who does not move a single cm as the Armadillo gets stunned XD Only the strongest of hits from the biggest of bossed would require a dedicated well-timed block! There are cool things they can do with this. I don't think it should be scrapped but improved.
PoE 2 right now is peak PoE graphics with peak PoE frustation. There are so many stupid design decisions. For me, the worst is that moving/attacking feels like a slog and how they still have timed mechanics (delirium, breach) is beyond me.
This was addressed in PoE1 and is found in PoE2. Just blow up the entire screen from a screen away. Specifically for titan, get that AoE, spam those EQ / Earthshatters / Leap Slam + herald. Regarding early game, yeah, super annoying. Would be fine if it just pushed the character to a side, once. But GGG for POE2 decided that keeping shotgunning was fine and then added this multi-reposition-desync feeling shotgun. I honestly only notice it during campaign specifically against those Antlions and sometimes the boars. Putting Molten Blast with Stun stopped most of the feel bad mechanics in the game till t10. Switched to PoE1 because it is more fun than figuring out how to play this game solo.
I am fine with a monster like a boar rushing my character and pushing me back, that feels fine. What I dislike is when I use a skill like Stampede and don't do the same to the monsters. The feeling I would want captured is intractability. If there was a weight system behind it, that changed how much impact a character feels from a push back that would make it a lot better too.
I don't think a specific stat for this is a good solution unless it just gets rolled into another stat like stun threshold. Thematically, that would make sense without having to dilute character power. I do think some skill specific bonuses to pushiness would be great. For example, stampede and rolling slam are great candidates for skills that could use a massive boost pushiness during the movement. Ultimately, I think it needs something that feels more real though. Getting taken for a ride across the entire screen is not immersive or real, which is part of why they expressed the desire for this mechanic. Instead, it could simply push you off to the side, knock you back and slow the pusher down, or something.
The way the camera desyncs from the player if they get pushed mid move drives me up the wall. I don't even mind getting bullied by enemies, purely the camera moving in a way that it shouldn't feels so bad that I want to close the game in disgust.
I don't really agree with the idea of "at least give us something to counter the push" if the system is bad they should change it ! Maps are bad as well but we got checkpoints and they are terrible ( infinite red flags as ben said )
Yup, I complained about this for a while. The rolling bastards were so annoying on my warrior. Switched to monk and most of their animations have a forward push which negates it, and if you attack fast enough on monk you attack faster than walking and can remove it from your boots.
Especially awful during the blood wave rituals. One grabbed me and i couldn’t even dodge roll out or away from it. This and the stuns causing enemies to stagger out of the area is doubly terrible for melee.
Easy fix would be a buff like wind dancer where if you get pushed you brace yourself and explode outward with fury creating an aoe attack. The buff would then allow you to beimmune to push for 3 seconds
The main problem I have with it: it's not fun. It's a problem I have with a lot of things in PoE2 especially when the counterpart in PoE1 is fun and GGG have deliberately made it not fun in PoE2 for the sake of realism/lore/whatever. So many things feel over-designed - When I play I don't care how realistic something is, I wanna have fun and blast the game.
I actually think it should be tied directly to strength. Something like every 5 strength gives you some percentage to "size". You wouldn't scale the character model or anything, but it would make sense if you are a hulking warrior that is literally all strength that you be be pretty much a wall of muscle and very hard to push.
Pushiness is another mechanic showing how much GGG despises melee. Melee gets shoved all over the place while Casters and Projectiles one button offscreen never seeing the enemy. Forcing melee into another mechanic to invest into is a horrible idea, what Unique negative mechanic does casters and projectiles need to overcome and invest into?
Imagine that and being a slowed Warrior with permanent attack/movement/skill speed penalty. It's like playing the game with permanent temporal chains on 50% increased effect.
why do mace skills not give you a momentum of some sort? and damage reduction while charging up your 2 second attack? make them immune to knockback while swinging a mace or big 2h weapons
strongly agree, character displacement is very jarring in this game. similarly, monsters being knocked back when stunned is extremely annoying as melee. I want to stun, why am I being punished for stunning the enemy rofl
The game has tons of terrible ideas, enough to make a whole series. I had rose tinted glasses initially but its really just full of trash mechanics and interactions that aren't fun
The feeling of making a wrecking ball melee character is non-existent with this problem the way it is. The trade-off of melee being less zoomy is supposed to be that a character that feels solid. All the big cool slam animations they made just seem ridiculous when you're bouncing around the whole screen. It is a downgrade from poe1 melee which is really saying something.
My guess, on cases of groups.. is "push" and "surround" are being triggered together, bugging it by the "one" aiming to move behind you pushing you.. that, imo, is causing the bugged long long push.. very annoying
My issue is it just feels physically incorrect. Even things with small mass can impart force on collision with a larger mass and cause it to accelerate. Not only that, things bounce off each other. Masses don't just purely carry things along with them on collision. Without enough respect to real physics the movement and acceleration from these collisions just feel wrong. The collisions will also look wrong until knockback/push animations are added.
Mobs pushing you without using a displacement ability (like poe1 Brutus hook or something) is the desync of Poe2. It’s that bad. I’d rather be forced to enter /oos in the chat every 3 seconds than play with mobs pushing me
The internal implementation of mechanics in PoE2 is all over the place. I believe that GGG leaned into their "ruthless" approach way too much without considering the game as a whole. They are changing game mechanics to be more punishing just for the sake of it. Gameplay during early presentations looked much better.
My laptop is “slightly” below recommended spec and I have graphics all tuned low, only thing that crashes my game is the moving grass texture and ugh , being pushed, idk my frame rates slip so hard and then I pop up in the log in menu
So let's say ggg does another pass on how much mobs push you As well as add something akin to wind dancer but it works on armor, on top of fixing which hits are considered big and small via mobs If they decided to "nerf" armor because all those changes made you "immortal" Will the community take it well? I bet money they will lash out as usual saying ggg won't let them have fun When functionally, they fixed what the problems were and pulling back the buffs that weren't necessary
Don’t put it on the tree. I definitely don’t need more mandatory stats for mace builds. Another annoying part is that pushing can really throw off the aim of skills like HotG.
Spicy one perhaps, but someone needs to say it...
If they fix this melee will be great again
Simple suggestion without changing anything on the tree/gear: Stun Threshold also scales Push Resistance. (Or possibly Physical Damage Resistance also applies to Pushes.)
Not even that spicy, it's the truth. The pushy mechanic in PoE2 feels horrendous.
Not spicy take at all. It is a super jank mechanic, I'm surprised no one has made a video about it until now.
As a warrior main I hate being pushed HOWEVER what's worse, IMHO, if for any totems that I have to get pushed. If I cast a totem I generally need it in that EXACT spot and not pushed halfway across the screen.
They sold the “pushiness” to us prelaunch as a realism system. But instead tiny monsters can push us around willy-nilly, but we can only push monsters by using special moves. It feels like punishment instead of realism, and *really* feels bad for melee.
It's just a false good idea. Yes it's unexpected, slightly scary the first times it happens to your character. You can show it on a demo boasting: look we added something completely new the arpg genre.
But in the long term it is just bothersome and unfun
Realism is only invoked by the devs to explain why warrior has to suck for some reason. Nobody pretends to care about realism when it comes to wizards casting magic spells but warriors have to move slower, attack slower, be less tanky because real life armor is less effective than fantasy energy shield, and it's 'realistic' to get pushed around by giant monsters which only inconveniences warriors
"Stun and Push threshold", just make it a single stat.
I'm down with that although I wouldn't mind a keystone [Take Root? Immovable? .. whatever] where you and your totems can't be moved by monsters / enemies / effects.
No. Just remove enemies moving you
Curious where you can get that stat
You cant lol
Just use a stun charm
Not very hard
That being said, they need to make another pass on mob pushing and reduce it
They should just remove push from most enemies if not all. Only bug rares and bosses should be able to push if it is going to be in the game.
I dont think your HP pool should be what impacts how much you push things. THat doesnt make sense. WHy would a bloodmage push the shit out of things if a warbringer with titans grip cant...
The best counter to this issue is just not play warrior because GGG has never been able to balance melee characters appropriately in their 10+year history.
Jonathan's fault. He is a destiny player and likes laser projectiles. That's why these skills will always dominate in PoE2
@@m.h.4907 jfc he likes destiny??? no wonder everything he's involved in is terrible. And I say this as someone with 1k hours in both destiny games. They're awful.
Whilst I agree with you, PoE Melee Balance has always been an issue, I would also ask you which games you feel DID get Melee right? Personally in pretty much every ARPG, in my experience at least, Melee has always felt like the 'weakest' class. Diablo 2 for example, even with how glorious the Remaster was, melee still collectively remains one of the most requested things to be changed. Grim Dawn: Melee, whilst viable, is easily outshone by other classes. Titan quest, Torchlight, etc etc etc. Melee in ARPG's is almost a meme at this point. OBVIOUSLY some people can make their melee chars seem viable for sure, but in general opting to play a Melee Class basically means you are signing up to knowing that you are at an instant disadvantage :P Interested to hear your suggestions on how to improve it though for sure!
Don’t bring an axe to a magic fight lol
@@Raabbb-yt8xs Marvel Heroes did it right. Melee chars will never have the clear of projectile or spell types, but then it needs to be better at bossing. But marvel heroes was from Brevik and he is a god anyway because of D2 alone
The easiest way to do the fix is combine it with stun threshold, so melee characters are more resistant to it and it would make ranged etc. still affected with no investment. There's no reason for an extra push resistance stat. I should be able to stand my ground
They can go a step further too and stun mobs (or gain stun buildup) if they can't push a player because they have sufficient stun threshold to resist them.
Now imagine yourself running a map with slower cooldown recovery rate as chronomancer. You get surrounded by a strong monsters that you can't handle. You press your timestop. Anti-stun charm applies after you got stunned so it interrupts your 3 minute cooldown and you lose it while also being randomly snapped in a direction while being unable to roll out of the way, since the game just glues you to a monster that tries to push you. And you find yourself in a situation where that monster hits you 5 times in a row without you being able to do anything about it while your now also in the heart of monsters hive and die. What a game...
Lmao I am so glad other people are feeling this. Nothing hurts losing a 45 second cool down to this
Before the delirium push nerf... You could just get immediately surrounded.
Surely you have second wind on your time stop together with time snap?
@@pattoman5568 I'm afraid i'm in love with recoup and time rift 😔
I always thought this was a bug and laughed when the white gorrila hit me. "Dude hit me so hard it decentralized me from the screen". Didnt realise it was a feature till way later
i saw the thumbnail and immediately though, yea, pushing needs to go. It creates SO MANY instances of looking bugged/out of sync, and even when it doesnt it steel feels absolutely terrible
Or just make pushing not ass
0:54 THE WHA- oh...pushy
Dreamcore, I will assume this was intentional and I'm here for it... sums up how I feel every time my "pushy" character gets thrown around like a glitched out ragdoll 😂
A big part of the problem is there is no animation happening on the characters side... when you have an antlion or rhoa pushing you 2-3 screens and your character is standing there sliding on their feet the length of a football field, its just a glitch. not a feature.
You'd also get pushed to the side more often than being pushed straight back.
Two forces pushing against each other will reach an equilibrium, for example, the push would slow down because the rolling of the enemy isn't adding new energy to the equation, it'd be losing momentum so you wouldn't be infinite pushed everywhere, you'd resist that pushing just based on friction alone.
This one mechanic destroys all the good animation work and great models they've made for PoE2, makes them look like a college midterm project that isn't finished.
Hate that I agree. It's the primary reason why the game feels extremely janky right now. It doesn't help that there's *way* too many mobs that utilize this push mechanic. It's inflationary, and basically devalues the mechanic even if it didn't look as janky as it does.
even with amazing animations for it id rather they just scrap the mechanic altogether
I think one issue with this as well is that a lot of mobs get small moments of invincibility where they can't be hit while they play some spawning animation (delirium, for instance, but lots of other examples are around), but they still have collision boxes and move around. IMO, this is a major pain point, since the main defense for a melee character against being pushed into unfavorable (see: lethal) positions is to just kill, stun, or freeze the culprit. It should be one or the other, I think. Either mobs shouldn't get invincibility while spawning in, or they shouldn't be able to push you while they're invincible.
Weirdest push I've experienced so far was a few days ago when a random mob pushed me about half the way across a savannah map and everytime I tried rolling away it kept teleporting me back in the path of the mob.
Has happened to me as well
Was it one of the rolling mobs? I had something similar happen
@@jacedddd Think it was one of the beetle mobs.
I wouldn't mind this mechanic as a type of stun, like when the Count stabs his sword through you and drags you towards the wall, but when mobs tackle or roll at me, touch my foot, and suddenly I'm being dragged around, it never feels like anything other than a bug.
You could even do interesting boss attacks where they grab and drag you into a big attack, so if you fail to dodge the grab, you can still get a another chance to dodge the second part of the attack.
Want to add that the push mechanic is probably what makes things like that one monkey's roll so dangerous too, since you get dragged into the whole roll and take all the damage instead of being able to dodge out of it.
I've said this early on before when they decided to change the roll mechanics so you can roll through small openings, but since heavier armor comes with a movement speed penalty to you, it should also come with a penalty to the monsters ability to push / knock back the player, simple enough to understand and seems like some common sense to me.
quarterstaff has a issue that you often teleports inside a huge wave of enemies because the attack tries to telport you to comect the hit putting you in awful positioning constantly
Assuming that pushiness stays, here are a few thoughts.
- Most of the things that push you should push you aside, rather than along with the monster's movement.
- There should be a wider range of pushiness interaction. It feels like anything even slightly pushier than another gets full control of both of their movement. There should be a larger threshold of pushiness where neither entity can push the other, and possibly also a range where the effect of pushing is just significantly lessened.
- Character pushiness should be affected by gear. If the principle behind pushiness being in the game is realism, then heavier armor and shields (which already slow your movement more because of said realistic weight) should make you more pushy, or at least push resistant.
- What you do should influence the the effects of pushiness. Moving towards a monster pushing you should have some effect to push back and slow down the pushing. Certain skills and actions should increase your pushiness, or make you perfectly rooted and unpushable, especially the slower melee skills.
They add the roll so you don't feel like you are losing control of your character when attacking, then have this mechanic to make everything even worse.
BUG: When you, a small mob and a large mele mob align in this order.
The large one pushes the small while walking towards you indefinately and you will be dragged across a huge distance as long as you are perfectly aligned.
This happens every single time I run through the galwood because of those super aggro wolves pushing those little gremlins into me.
Yep I've had this happen a few times, it looks absolutely ridiculous as well the monster just walking you across 2 screens
@@dreamcore_gg Noo, i made a spelling correction. Can i get the heart on my comment back pretty please? ^^
I've made a similar complaint in my own content. I 100% agree with all of your points and especially agree that if they do not remove it they absolutely need to add a means to counter it because players - in any game - do not like having control of their character taken away from them. With CC we have ways to counter it via gear/passives, which means it's an active choice to either counter a CC or ignore it. With the pushing mechanic there is no counter, so you just have control taken away from you and in a very jarring manner at that.
YES YES YES. FInally a video about this! Getting pushed around is SO IRRITATING. Being a melee character already curses you with less movement speed opportunities. Getting sloshed around in a breach and having to dodge roll to get though ennemies is the worst.
It's no coincidence that many of the clips at the beginning show Steppes/Willow maps. Those are the worst maps in the game, much worse than Vaal Factory, because they are filled with tiny impassable chunks of terrain that you can get stuck on and which also block skills.
My favorite moment was when a pack of mobs somehow dragged me from one side of the map to the literal other side of the map during campaign in the Una's Lute area. The entire drag took probably 3-4 entire seconds.
Weird, my screen tracks my character but it's equally as disorienting at it flies around at lightspeed
Maybe it doesn't track the character properly when they are locked into an attack animation like with mace skills.
This also rly annoyed me on my monk i played on release. The screen isnt actually locked onto your character, it follows it. If you blink, dash or get pushed fast you will have a Fraction of a second where you dont see whats right in Front of you because you are at the edge of the camera. I have literally no idea why they would ever do that. I havent seen ANY arpg ever do this before.
I think that Stun Threshold needs to be renamed and reworked to include BOTH Stun and Push Threshold. Call it "Stability" or something. This allows them to address the "Push" issue without having to also require us to clog up our defenses with another stat, when defenses are already thin. Stun Threshold is already pretty evenly distributed around the tree, so it wouldn't require many changes to ensure that all Classes have access to it.
Nobody would use it. the current issue that every piece of gear right now is Flat defence, Hyprid defence %, Health/Mana, Item rarity, Resistance, Resistance. there is 0 ROOM to not take these stats. normally you try to get 4/6 stats. usually the 2 resistances, item rarity and the % roll. Some classes need to get spirit which is very annoying and than gloves & 2 rings require you to roll Flat damage rolls else your damage suffers.
@@dodang_9147 Oh I don't doubt most classes wouldn't use it on gear. It would probably get most use from the tree, same as Stun Threshold.
Push Threshold has the opportunity to be useful even if not capped, too, which would be good. For example, though 100% would make you push immune (if allowed), lesser percentages could make it so there is only so far you can be pushed.
@@Quen10k players already do stack push immunity. it is called evasion and block chance. if you evade an attack, you don't get pushed because you technically didn't get hit. I think warrior version of evasion is suppose to be block chance.
Another side effect of this getting pushed around is that some monster attacks/hitboxes move you out of the way of getting hit by them. And vice versa, sometimes they push you so your hitbox is no longer on them. Just something I've noticed playing with the palm strike skills a lot. (Also there with Ice Strike as it has a hidden teleport/lock on mechanic unlike Tempest Flurry)
I think the best solution would be to replace the strength bonus from "+ melee physical damage" with "+ push resistance / poise".
A) This would make warriors the most resistant to pushes while enabling access to this effect to other classes without tree changes.
B) Melee physical damage is a very specific stat, much worse than in poe1 because of:
- the new damage conversion system
- no real access to Iron Will and Iron Grip
Idk how to balance this new stat properly, but it should probably react to enemy size like armour reacts to enemy hit damage.
Say, at 100 strength you could be able to push smallest enemies with 0 resistance. At 300 you could push humanoid enemies. At 500 you could push boars and antlions.
And hey, then you could add extra monster/map modifier "monsters have X% stronger pushing power".
Fun fact: the volatiles that spawn in chaos trials also have collision and can make warrior mechanics get stuck too
It would be awesome if I could actually "push" enemies out of my way when my warrior uses Stampede, but instead I just get stuck on 90% of mobs, even ones way smaller than my character. The pushing mechanic overall feels like shit on warrior. Thanks for the vid!
The push mechanic is pure trash, particular when you place totems in a strategic location only to have some lardass push your totems somewhere else.
The rolling armadillos are the absolute worst. The way they just push-drag you and the longer you're being pushed, the more damage it does.
So if armor can be heavy enough to decrease my movement speed past zero, why doesn’t that same heavy armor prevent or at least reduce the chance that enemies can push me across the screen like I’m made of paper?
I had an intuitive problem with the push mechanic, and it didn't become apparent to me _why_ until the little "gremlins" from Act 3 (Before the roll patch).
From a design perspective, I completely understand where Jon was coming from, in giving the game "weight" and "feel". The problem with the implementation, was that if a larger monster has higher "push" value and can push you around, how in the hell did it escape the devs that creatures _smaller_ than the game character are both pushing you around and unable to be pushed back? (Unless you're of course using Tempest Flurry) It's completely antithetical to the design perspective argument, and makes no logical sense. Add on top of this that Tempest Flurry pushes teammates around, it all feels a little under-cooked and/or rushed. I still haven't played maces.
What i actually love the most about Warbringers passive block is exactly this, i dont think ive ever got pushed back since i took the Hunker Down node, not even in the juiciest Breach maps.
Don’t think they need to add a NEW stat, armour already has movement penalty associated to it so it has “weight.” That SHOULD have a benefit to it that prevents you from being pushed as much if you have an armour body armor and armour shield.
A mechanic designed to be "realistic" without consideration, there is no upside for this mechanic other than the people who design it to be like "oh I made it work", and if you think about the balance between builds, it's backwards, when monsters use movement skills they should use it like us, to close the gap between them and players, it should reward melee over range because of the gap distance being smaller, yet it's completely backwards, monsters only sprint or roll at you from a mid distance meaning range characters can largely ignore this when you one shot everything, while melee can one shot but can't one shot in time, had to deal with the pushback and even get your skills interrupted.
This game is ass ATM idk how people are sinking so much time into it
Watch them add a node in the Str area that reads thus:
Immoveable Object:
Makes you immune to pushing.
-20% attack speed with melee.
And one in the Int section reading:
Unstoppable Force:
Makes you immune to pushing while you have Energy Shield.
-5% max Energy Shield.
Shh... Now, don't give them ideas
Taking it out would feel weird to me. Being this immovable moving object in the game doesn't make sense either, though you definitely should be against most enemies that aren't massively larger than your character.
What should happen is that rolling/charging enemies strike you, you get flung or stagger backwards a little distance, while they stop with a big thump and a puff of dust where they impacted you, rather than them carrying on in this long travelled distance beyond the point of your model crashing with theirs. The main issue is that they continue further and keep pushing you repeatedly, making it feel like desyncing and awful. Large heavy enemy attacks can also have that same staggering backstepping animation added since it interrupts you anyways.
It needs refining, and pushing should be reserved for specific attacks. Not the enemy moving (unless they are massively larger than the player model, then some sort of staggering backsteps from them moving can be warranted).
It wouldn't be such a problem if layouts were at all logical, but there's always a stupid tree or singular rock that is actual solid geometry that gets You stuck all the time
Hear me out, instead (or in addition ?) of the current attributes scaling (life, accuracy, mana), do that instead :
- STR : increase your weight, the more heavy you are the more resistant to push you are, and on top of that the better you can push monsters. High STR character would be like an inamovible tank that pushes everything out of his way
- DEX : increase your agility, the more DEX the thiner you get and the better you can pass through monsters, a high DEX character would be almost phasing
- INT : I have no idea for that one, maybe something with light radius, you can see further away or something like that
i think the big problem is that the mobs kind of "drag" you along with them in a bad way. like if they push you, it should be a single hit, and they should stop while you move.
What baffles me the most with the "pushiness" system is that there is no way (i know of) to interact with it. They bothered to implement it, why not use it as a new axis of character power. I would find it very interresting if they gave the melee strenght region ways to interact with the system. This could be one of the things melee characters excell at in comparison to other archetypes. A melee character might just have an easier time resisting beeing pushed around while others have to play more carefully. Also the other way around there is no way to push something by attacking it. This could be something that maces are uniquely good at. The game drastically lacks signature mods on the different kinds of weapons and armor, and they talked at lenght at exilecon 1 about how they want to make different types of items feel unique. I hope that they are just in a huge timecrunch and they come around bringing more variety of scaling your character power into the game.
Not this one.
This one is.
-Boss dead
-All the rare mobs dead
-Map not completed
This seems to be a very easy bug to fix, but still not fixed wtf.
For starters, they need to implement it as advertised - different monsters should have different values according to their size. Atm it seems that every monster has the exact same value. Furthermore, I wouldn't waste any Titan's Ascendency nodes on it specifically. Imho Titan should get free/additional push resistance values for each Ascendency point assigned (no matter which one), as a passive bonus, because Titan should be that 'Mountain' type of character, it makes sense thematically. Warbringer should perhaps get half of that, and / or push resistance should be simply an added Strength stat bonus.
it ALSO feels like a bug when a single monster carries you three screens away into a wall and just DOES NOT stop running. As far as a stat to counter pushing we already have stun threshold, why not just roll it into the same stat? Call it control resistance threshold and let me overcap it like a noob. And while on the subject, we should 100% be able to blitz through enemies with movement abilities. I recently got stampede and i was so disappointed to learn that you just run in place against enemies. I understand stopping on a big fat guy with a million hit points but it was actually less effective for moving through enemies than a dodge. In the event of a control resist stat (or otherwise stun threshold), skills like stampede or shield charge should use that stat to figure out which enemies they can or can't shove out of the way. It would be really cool for your stats to matter in such a visceral way.
It totally feels like a bug rather than a intended feature. I'd like to see them remove it because I don't see how they could ever make this work and they are already spending too much time bandaiding irredeemable features. You lose control of your character and that simply has no place in a game like this.
Fun fact: The pushing also works in multiplayer. Besides the fact the each player has a massive hitbox and blocks each other, you can also push other players. A monk doing a combo in your direction can instantly push you multiple screens. Somebody walking into you might simply push you along, even tough you are holding down the key to walk the opposite direction. It's kinda insane how bad it is. Playing delirious maps in a full party sometimes made me actually consider rage quitting because of how bad the gameplay with the pushing by monsters and other players is.
Armour bases should also give pushiness resistance. Shields and body armour already reduce your move speed as they are heavy. Adding pushiness resistance would make them also heavy for the enemies and not just for you, which makes sense thematically and gives an actual upside for that move speed reduction
i have two builds as of now:a killing palm unarmed build,that often gets pushed around easily,making me litterally miss an instant skill...the other build is a strength stacker shield charge build,and getting pushed aside while charging,even i use a lot of cooldown reduction stuff,just feels so horrible and i'm not even past the acts.i'm forced to scale aoe to get stomping ground to knockback ennemies before they can push me,which,though going well with my build,is quite an investment since more movement speed means a lot more aoe needed for stomping ground aoe to to reach the ennemy ahead of me.getting pushed while channeling bonestorm is also extremely bothering since i have to position myself quite close while channeling,before using shield charge to consume all the debuffs from bonestorm,and getting pushed there means my charge might just go around the targeted ennemy,or go somewhere i absolutely don't want to be (right on a boss strong attack)
Adding an extra stat to the tree is the dumbest solution. Those nodes will be mandatory with a mace build. This will just tax those characters that already are getting screwed to be screwed just in a different way. Bake it into strength maybe.
Thank you at last someone called it out,also playing in party is really annoying since even between player we can push each other especially in simulacrum with some crazy tempest flurry build spinning like beyblade crashing and pushing each other it can be really tilting experience.
i don't mind the pushyness, especially for big charging monsters. It's really the camera not updating or stuttering that's the problem in my opinion. I would also just link ''pushiness resistance'' to stun threshold and call it a day.
If Armour is going to penalize movement speed, then it should give you push immunity. It's so dumb Armour makes you slower with absolutely no reward.
I think this is mostly a case of a feature that was fun on paper, fun in testing, and as soon as it came to test it with actual servers it became super clunky and felt like rubber banding and it was too late.
There's an argument to be made that even on paper it sounds like a nightmare (especially when you block each other in MP) but I feel it's a case of "oops we forgot it was an online game with latency lel".
They were so proud of the push mechanic that they added multiple types of enemies who were literally designed to push you, I swear a lot of stuff in PoE 2 is just completely backwards, LOL.
I've been pushed by a small sized dog 2 full screens until it hit a tree, i think it would have continued otherwise. The pushing needs to be changed, it feels so bad.
What's worse is when i get staggered by blocking. There's full desync and my character just teleports around until i use a movement ability like charge or leap.
Stun Threshold should also apply to push resistance. An attack that isn't stunning me shouldn't be pushing me.
the "enemies push you over half the screen" was one of those things that annoyed me from day one, especially as melee titan it was rather annoying. and yes it overturned and feels like a glitch, like lag.
I think this is actually a cool mechanic makes monsters feel more powerful in a way, wish it was a stun that made you invincible and knocked you back instead of how it currently functions
What makes it better is when you are blocked by enemies that have not even spawned on screen. Delirium is classic for this. Getting launched across the screen by unseen monsters is SOOOO fun, lol.
If its a keystone, then the right side of the tree needs a phasing keystone. Just remove the pushy all together.
This! For me, one of the worst offender is the boss of Apex of Filth. When that boss does the cartwheel-style attack, it feels like there is a huge collision cone in front of her just sucking me in an unavoidable ragdoll and it is absolutely infuriating. Thanks for bringing it up, cheers!
Stun Threshold should contribute to "Push Resistance". Shields and Melee Weapons should also have inherent bonuses to both Stun Threshold and an extra multiplier for how much Stun Threshold contributes to Push Resistance. And Active Block should prevent all Pushes.
I agree, 100%! Playing warrior, especially early in the campaign is AWFUL! This alone removes the whole concept of "POE2 will have better melee". I would rather play any melee skill in poe 1, rather than deal with this nonsense.
first time I just straight up logged out was when a deli mirror mob pinned me up against a bush during their invulnerability phase and then random trash mobs oneshot me from the edge of the screen. unenjoyable mechanic.
Solution to it definitely shouldn't be in Titan. That's one melee ascendancy, out of three for the warrior, with other melee classes to come in the future. Plus I kind of like the extra inventory space... well, I'd like it if they actually fixed all the bugs with it, and, ideally, just made it increase the size of your inventory, rather than this whole separate bag thing.
But yes, it is something that needs work. When a feature looks like a bug, it probably isn't something you should ship with.
While I don't mind Stun & Push to be on the same nodes I'd like to go a different way. Perhaps STUN threshold could be related [more aggressively] to base life and/or life+es which effectively means the "beefier" you are the less likely you are to be stunned. As for "push" I think that could be related to STR and DEX in some manner. STR would allow you to "resist / mitigate" the push while DEX would allow you to avoid being pushed. I wouldn't be opposed to nodes like Giant's Blood [keystone] having a "can't be pushed" mod added so having nodes on the passive tree wouldn't hurt. This way STR, DEX, Life, and ES builds would have some inherent mitigation against Stun & Push.
Bro. The idea that i am a Titan. A child of Giants. Strength unmatched and implacable.
Can be pushed half a screen by a running ostrich because thats just the mechanic. Level 80 warrior. Its pain. Dont even get me started on stampede. 'Here comes the pain traii-ooop, sorry. This bloke is roughly the same size so im not going anywhere... "
An utter joke.😊
I think it would work with dedicated animations and stats like Stun threshold adjacent.
Imagine one of those rolly Armadillo thingies hitting a char and seeing different results based on your build:
-A monk would be sent tumbling but do some acrobatic move to land on their feet. If the players does a well-timed recovery based on the dodge roll!
-Sorceress would get rag dolled or sent flying with a hard enough displacement hit but can recover with a clutch quick thinking teleport/time reset!
-The Gigachad warrior who does not move a single cm as the Armadillo gets stunned XD Only the strongest of hits from the biggest of bossed would require a dedicated well-timed block!
There are cool things they can do with this.
I don't think it should be scrapped but improved.
PoE 2 right now is peak PoE graphics with peak PoE frustation. There are so many stupid design decisions. For me, the worst is that moving/attacking feels like a slog and how they still have timed mechanics (delirium, breach) is beyond me.
This was addressed in PoE1 and is found in PoE2. Just blow up the entire screen from a screen away. Specifically for titan, get that AoE, spam those EQ / Earthshatters / Leap Slam + herald.
Regarding early game, yeah, super annoying. Would be fine if it just pushed the character to a side, once. But GGG for POE2 decided that keeping shotgunning was fine and then added this multi-reposition-desync feeling shotgun. I honestly only notice it during campaign specifically against those Antlions and sometimes the boars.
Putting Molten Blast with Stun stopped most of the feel bad mechanics in the game till t10. Switched to PoE1 because it is more fun than figuring out how to play this game solo.
I am fine with a monster like a boar rushing my character and pushing me back, that feels fine. What I dislike is when I use a skill like Stampede and don't do the same to the monsters. The feeling I would want captured is intractability. If there was a weight system behind it, that changed how much impact a character feels from a push back that would make it a lot better too.
Using shield charge into one of those rolling mobs should really end in a stalemate where both bounce back off one another
I don't think a specific stat for this is a good solution unless it just gets rolled into another stat like stun threshold. Thematically, that would make sense without having to dilute character power.
I do think some skill specific bonuses to pushiness would be great. For example, stampede and rolling slam are great candidates for skills that could use a massive boost pushiness during the movement.
Ultimately, I think it needs something that feels more real though. Getting taken for a ride across the entire screen is not immersive or real, which is part of why they expressed the desire for this mechanic. Instead, it could simply push you off to the side, knock you back and slow the pusher down, or something.
The way the camera desyncs from the player if they get pushed mid move drives me up the wall.
I don't even mind getting bullied by enemies, purely the camera moving in a way that it shouldn't feels so bad that I want to close the game in disgust.
I don't really agree with the idea of "at least give us something to counter the push" if the system is bad they should change it ! Maps are bad as well but we got checkpoints and they are terrible ( infinite red flags as ben said )
Yup, I complained about this for a while. The rolling bastards were so annoying on my warrior. Switched to monk and most of their animations have a forward push which negates it, and if you attack fast enough on monk you attack faster than walking and can remove it from your boots.
Agreed. Pushing needs to go. It has zero fun factor, and only makes the game feel horrible to play. Dear God, I hope they relent and delete it.
Just needs a player related tuning. We need to be able to push more and get pushed less. Simple really.
The pushy system gives me that feeling of someone making a problem up to pawn off their crappy solution.
Especially awful during the blood wave rituals. One grabbed me and i couldn’t even dodge roll out or away from it.
This and the stuns causing enemies to stagger out of the area is doubly terrible for melee.
Easy fix would be a buff like wind dancer where if you get pushed you brace yourself and explode outward with fury creating an aoe attack. The buff would then allow you to beimmune to push for 3 seconds
The main problem I have with it: it's not fun. It's a problem I have with a lot of things in PoE2 especially when the counterpart in PoE1 is fun and GGG have deliberately made it not fun in PoE2 for the sake of realism/lore/whatever. So many things feel over-designed - When I play I don't care how realistic something is, I wanna have fun and blast the game.
I actually think it should be tied directly to strength. Something like every 5 strength gives you some percentage to "size". You wouldn't scale the character model or anything, but it would make sense if you are a hulking warrior that is literally all strength that you be be pretty much a wall of muscle and very hard to push.
Pushiness is another mechanic showing how much GGG despises melee. Melee gets shoved all over the place while Casters and Projectiles one button offscreen never seeing the enemy. Forcing melee into another mechanic to invest into is a horrible idea, what Unique negative mechanic does casters and projectiles need to overcome and invest into?
Imagine that and being a slowed Warrior with permanent attack/movement/skill speed penalty. It's like playing the game with permanent temporal chains on 50% increased effect.
why do mace skills not give you a momentum of some sort? and damage reduction while charging up your 2 second attack? make them immune to knockback while swinging a mace or big 2h weapons
strongly agree, character displacement is very jarring in this game. similarly, monsters being knocked back when stunned is extremely annoying as melee. I want to stun, why am I being punished for stunning the enemy rofl
The game has tons of terrible ideas, enough to make a whole series. I had rose tinted glasses initially but its really just full of trash mechanics and interactions that aren't fun
The feeling of making a wrecking ball melee character is non-existent with this problem the way it is. The trade-off of melee being less zoomy is supposed to be that a character that feels solid. All the big cool slam animations they made just seem ridiculous when you're bouncing around the whole screen. It is a downgrade from poe1 melee which is really saying something.
My guess, on cases of groups.. is "push" and "surround" are being triggered together, bugging it by the "one" aiming to move behind you pushing you.. that, imo, is causing the bugged long long push.. very annoying
My issue is it just feels physically incorrect.
Even things with small mass can impart force on collision with a larger mass and cause it to accelerate.
Not only that, things bounce off each other. Masses don't just purely carry things along with them on collision.
Without enough respect to real physics the movement and acceleration from these collisions just feel wrong.
The collisions will also look wrong until knockback/push animations are added.
Mobs pushing you without using a displacement ability (like poe1 Brutus hook or something) is the desync of Poe2.
It’s that bad. I’d rather be forced to enter /oos in the chat every 3 seconds than play with mobs pushing me
The internal implementation of mechanics in PoE2 is all over the place. I believe that GGG leaned into their "ruthless" approach way too much without considering the game as a whole. They are changing game mechanics to be more punishing just for the sake of it. Gameplay during early presentations looked much better.
My laptop is “slightly” below recommended spec and I have graphics all tuned low, only thing that crashes my game is the moving grass texture and ugh , being pushed, idk my frame rates slip so hard and then I pop up in the log in menu
Give Armour characters hit mass like they're a Total Warhammer unit.
So let's say ggg does another pass on how much mobs push you
As well as add something akin to wind dancer but it works on armor, on top of fixing which hits are considered big and small via mobs
If they decided to "nerf" armor because all those changes made you "immortal"
Will the community take it well?
I bet money they will lash out as usual saying ggg won't let them have fun
When functionally, they fixed what the problems were and pulling back the buffs that weren't necessary
Don’t put it on the tree. I definitely don’t need more mandatory stats for mace builds.
Another annoying part is that pushing can really throw off the aim of skills like HotG.
This pushy also create a "stun" moment. Given how random one shot can be. It can be quite lethal.
I didn't even knew it's a real system. All this this time I thought it's a bug!
Can we get some way to stop/lessen armorbreak on the warriors tree
I thought it was a bug until now because it feels and looks like one, but now i feel immersed, so realistic
Why not just connect push resistance with strength? Higher strength means you are less proned to be pushed.