I am relatively new to 6.5 Creedmoor, but have used Lapua brass in .308 and prefer it over most others available in that caliber because of its relative uniformity. My guess is that the flatter line on the velocity chart, possibly due to the smaller primer and flash hole, are intentional in order to reduce variability in velocities over a range of environmental conditions such as temp, humidity, pressure, altitude. Just a hunch but it seems reasonable. Kudos on the Videos and the Channel. Very informative and not too much bs. As agent Friday of 'Dragnet' infamy would say, "Just the Facts, maam, Just the Facts". Keep up the good work. When I have some time I'll go back and pull out the data to run it through my Quickload program and let you know what I find.
Wish someone will do all the videos on 223 rem . Dies, brass,bullet and powder for a bolt gun to achieve 1moa at 500m . We south African don't have the luxury of having so much awesome products. Really nice job on the 6.5 crd
excellent analysis, thank you for your hard work and sharing it with us. From my own accuracy journey I have come to the conclusion that I will have 2 different loads in both 123g and 140g bullets. One will be for shooting tiny groups on paper@ 200yrds, my Max range on paper at my club and a second load for 1000yrd shooting. So far, believe it or not my most accurate 200yrd group with 140's has been using 4895 36gr which yielded a .313" @200 for 5 shots. The velocity was lower, 2600fps, at 100yrds the group was literally 1 hole. For my 1000 yrd load I want more velocity which I can comfortably get with RL17
Thanks for the comment. I agree that there are a lot of factors that you need to consider. For short range honestly the 129gr have worked great for me but they cetainly arent a long range option, But so far for long range I think I am going to be leaning on the 140 ELD or maybe the 147 ELD. I really want to get this RDF to shoot better, I haven't given up but time will tell I guess.
Thank you for making great and relevant info series. Really appreciate it. Question...did I miss in the video were you mentioning the neck wall thickness on all cases ? Thank you again.
243 brass, initially trimmed to 1.930", one pass sizing through a Lee F/L sizer die and final trim to 1.910". Works for me. Accurate and costs next to nothing. Whatsmore, fun to make and shoot. If I lose one while shooting too bad.
The mandrel you are using what is its diameter.263? Can I take my hornady fl die remove expander ball run the case through the die and then a .263 mandrel .? So would I have .001 neck tension.?
I am relatively new to the 6.5 creedmoor ( just over a year) I have worked several loads on different brass. I bought Lapua Brass but have not had time to load it. I have worked up loads using Norma, Hornady and Nosler Brass. I have found that the consistency of Nosler brass to be my go to brass. I am curious why use IMR4350 over H4350? I also use Redding bushing neck size die along with the Sinclair mandrel inside neck size. I have found it to be more consistent than using expanded ball. I have used both the cci benchrest primer and the fed. gm210m primer with almost duplicate results from both. @100 yds I am punching one hole .285 and at 300 yds I am grouping @ 1.325. I am sure that there is some shooter error to get the spread that far out. What other bullets have you shot in your testing? I have tried Sierra 130tmk and the Hornady 140ELD. I recently purchased IMR4451 to test with both bullets and use Lapua brass and Nosler brass. Have you tried this powder yet? Is it different temp sensitivity than 4350? Great video... thanks for the information...
+Mark Kennicott welcome to the channel. I have not tried the nosler brass, but for the purposes of this testing, I didn't want to buy 100 cases that I didn't "need". My channel isn't big enough yet, so all testing is funded by me. So it just didn't make the cut. I would like to have tested more but I guess I had to draw the line somewhere. As for your H4350 question, 2 reasons, first on did a workup with it already here: ua-cam.com/video/KDW4prGjqgs/v-deo.html andbthe nosler book data lists this IMR 4350 the highest velocity with Sammi pressure. I just bought the neck die so I will probably do a video on it further down there road. Check out my channel, there are lots of load workups on there. I encourage you to subscribe so you know when I post new videos (weekly) and sheets feel free to comment. This is all just me learning as well. I have a primer comparison test loaded, I just need to shoot it and put the data together and that video will be along as well. If there is something you can't find let me know that too, I am always looking for good ideas for a new video.
I think the exact same way. I honestly have a large rifle primer test already loaded and the small rifle testing in the Lapua brass hopefully won't be far behind.
My Father in law and I both are just starting into the lapua brass, and he has already had significant improvement with a small magnum primer. We are shooting the 140 ELDs & Berger VLDs "hunting". I am going to try a few different powders, but his best load so far has been with RL17, and CCI 450s. Good videos, and good shooting to all.
+Brian Martin thanks for the comment. A primer test is definitely in the works. I have had pretty good luck with Rl-17, have you tried H4350 or too hard to find?
I have only used H4350 in the Hornady brass to try duplication of the Hornady factory match 140 ELDs. I will soon try it with the Lapua. I'm shooting two different rifles with these loads also. One is a Savage LRP factory 26" tube, the other a REM 700 action with a 30" Bartlein. I have found one load that works really well in both rifles with FF brass to each chamber. RL19, charge of 43.0, and 140 VLD Berger. Sitting at bench working up new loads now. Will let you know results as soon as conditions are Right.
Need 25-06 brass can’t find anything in stock except hornady ant Lapua or Nossler but lapua doesn’t make 25-06 I known I can buy 30-06 and run it through my die what about 270 .?
I shoot .5ish moa consistently with my Hornady brass,140 rdf & 40.2gr 4350 in my Howa APC.I get the exact same results shooting the factory match grade hornady stuff as well.Ive not played with my coal (2.805) yet though,just done my load development so far,next cab of the rank! Was just seeing my groups and deviation open up last couple sessions, think i pushed my luck without annealing as i was on my 4th or 5th reload or i was just due for a full size maybe? Im just learning have only been loading about 6 months, no way of measuring headspace yet,waiting for stuff to arrive...Ive got 100 annealed,full sized loaded and ready to go, just waiting for weather to play ball...
Glad to see you in the comments. I can not explain my insanity, sometimes its just the journey that makes it all worth while I guess. I really hope that somewhere in my extreme over examination of everything that somebody solves a problem or makes there journey a little easier. Don't give up on me yet, I am hoping to really narrow down some great loads to take to distance.
+meditech glad to hear of your accomplishment. There group size certainly sounds good. Does the SD bother you so all? I wonder if that causes you trouble at 1000 yards?
moparmadman Anything under 15 I have found to be a non issue. I shoot at a 24x24 inch plate. i wiggle more moa than that few feet of velocity will throw it off. I would be wanting a little better if I was bench resting rather than stretching it out.
Thanks for all your effort. Great Vid. In line with my testing you are much more accurate. Your water test is spot on with what I have. So much to talk about on this subject, I use Quick Load for a reference and have found that seating depth, case capacity, and charge have most effect on velocity(powder being the same). Actual readings(magneto speed) are about 100fps different more for magneto. I believe you are narrowing this down to seating depth and neck tension if powder and bullet are the same. Got my velocity up with lapua brass with seating depth. Thanks again just which could communicate outside of youtube.
Thanks for the comments as always. I am always happy to see you in the comments. Glad I am not crazy, but I really wish this made more sense than it does. Shortening this round doesn't make any sense and like I mentioned before, with the lower case volume I would expect the Lapua to be faster. At this point neck tension and magnum primer are my first thoughts. Ed Mobley from the 6.5 guys was commenting back and forth with me a little and mentioned that they are using the magnum primers in the Lapua brass. I am certainly going to give it a try. Try sending me a message through the about tab on my channel.
I wonder if the Lapua velocity drop off would be due to the smaller primers not producing as good ignition for the heavier charges giving lower velocities once the charges went up. It may also be one of the factors reducing case stretch?
+Denis LeBlanc I wonder this as well. With the lower case capacity my first thought was I should have seen higher velocity. A primer test is coming for sure. Thanks for commenting.
I am sure that the small primer and the hole size has all to do with the falling off of velocity in the high volume powder loads. I would bet that the primer is not up to igniting the extra powder even though it did close to the other cases in velocity with the lighter loads. It's like a comparison of apples and oranges with the Lapua Brass because of the small primer that is less efficient to ignite the powder being used. 4350 is a slow burning powder. I would think if using a faster burning powder the gap would decrease on the high end. I think it is best sticking with a large primer in the Creedmoor that is what it was designed with and it makes it a better cartridge when loaded with 4350 which so many people find to make their more accurate loads.
Obviously Lapua small primer is a major difference in velocity. They are theorizing a small primer will have the least effect on standard deviation because of it being a smaller percentage of the charge. So to get equal velocity out of this case it would require a greater charge. Also one can weigh the cases themselves without bothering with water weights for case capacity. Generally speaking a heavier case usually means more brass less case capacity. Been there done that. Case weighing is a great way to get cases that are more alike. When shooting inexpensive bullets weighing individual bullets is necessary as well. With good bullets it isn't necessary with Hornady, Barnes, Sierra, Speer etc. I do like your videos. If you want a good neck sizing die one should look at the Lee Collet Dies. Don't laugh, they are the least expensive but they work as good as anyone else's neck sizing dies even better than most and it's unnecessary to have to buy individual bushings. One can purchase a smaller de-capper mandrel for a smaller neck opening for a tighter fit on bullets if one wishes. They even help uniform the thickness on the case neck over time with compression when neck sizing. I use to neck turn all my brass and with the Lee Collet Die it is less needed. You get a truer neck alignment by the dies design.
+Garry Talley well depending on the info you are looking forninam going to do a update to my brass video in the next week or 2. I do already have a series on this with Hornady, Norma, and lapua however. I did not use mag primers so that was a oops on my part. I have been doing some water weighing and I am not sure there is correlation. I understand the theory, but I am not sure our works in practice.
Great information. I'm now getting serious into precision shooting with the 6.5. I've ordered a case of Lapua brass and would like to neck only size. What size bushing did you use for the Lapua?
Looking at the Redding Type S die you referred to and Wilson bushings. Someone said they found them to be made more accurately. What expander die would you recommend?
I do not understand why you feel the redding die stretches the brass? The lee collet die requires a normal flash hole that the Lapua brass does not have.
Redding forces the mouth of the case to less than 6.5 on the up stroke as the case is pressed up into the die. Then there is a "forcing cone" on the decapping pin to bring the case mouth back to 6.5. Lee neck resizing dies literally press the mouth of the case against the decapping pin on the fullest extent of the upstroke and there is any resizing on the down stroke of the press. I highly suggest trying a Lee neck sizing die but only the neck sizing die. Other dies are superior IMO. I do have both Redding and Lee neck resizing dies and have used both. I tried the Redding and saw some stretching after neck resizing but no stretching with the Lee. Lee also recommends turning the case 50% and resizing the neck again. This results in perfectly centering the mouth to the case and did my a difference in my experience.
+David Peterson this die is a bushing die and I am relying on the Sinclair mandrel die to bring the mouth to the proper dimension. Since I am using a .288 bushing I really don't think that the over sizing is very dramatic. I agree if I were using a ball expander but I am not.
FWIW I use a Forster Neck Size/Bump die and a Sinclair mandrel die. That combination yields a consistent 0.002" neck tension and concentricity remains consistently under 0.001" using Lapua brass. I find both first and second firings have not grown significantly, and average velocity is 2665 fps. My RPR is pretty consistent at 0.7 MOA which may be the best 75 year old eye will allow. For the time being I am staying with 40.9gr of H4350 and a CBTO of 2.205" which is roughly 0.020" of the lands. I think I can do better but other matters are using up my time.
Odd that the Lapua having a smaller internal volume had a lower velocity compared to Hornady. You would think that it would be inverse as pressure should have been higher in the Lapua
Hi Jeremy. I thought this as well. I have done some research on this and I have a suspicion that I have to confirm with testing. Stick around and I will have a video for sure.
well that was a mess of info that went way over my head, lol...still to produce my first handloads ever. by the looks of it tho for hornady, still the best case despite its short comings. look forward to your next vid :)
moparmadman I have 100 Hornady brass new in their packaging, 200 ct 140gr ELD-M bullets and 2lbs of H4350 so far...building my reloading bench when I get home in a week
Sounds like you have a great start. Take a look at the 10 shot shootout video, .030 off the lands and 41.3 grains and you will be at 1/2 a MOA before you know it. Next video is a follow up to it. Its a keeper and the best load yet. Hope it doesn't spoil it for you.
I have only tried Hornady brass on this load, "NORMA for my 7mm" but can easily get ~.35 MOA with a few deferent loads. I think the key is to NOT mix the brass. I just don't think you are seeing the difference in the brass because of other Noise factors. Also my first thought as other said was small rifle primer might not ignite the larger loads.
Well I agree and disagree. I do think that I am likely losing some accuracy to my barrel, but I would never bet that I could consistently shoot .25 MOA if I had a perfect rifle. My honest plans are to wear this one out and go with something like a LRI. I think I have a couple loads that are going to be worthy of testing at a 1000 or so but you never know. I hope that the average guy can strap a scope to a budget rifle and be able to compete with guys that seem to have bottomless wallets.
Great data but I have to agree a little. NOT with .25 MOA but ~.5 MOA. Although I am using factor Browning Eclipse 6.5 creed I would have to be Drunk to shoot > 1MOA. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe you are missing something at a higher level That would greatly improve group size. I love the data and it's out of my league at this time and have bee wanting to take it to this level so "THANKS" So trying to be helpful back. What kind of Bench are you shooting off, is it stable ? Are you sure you are calculating MOA correct? Have you measured the wind, what is MPH. Just trying to give constructive criticism. Please try some Berger 130Gs My pet load is 42.5 G H4350 Berger 130 VLD COAL 2.850I just think trying to squeeze out the last .01 MOA should wait until you figure out the low hanging fruit. Example maybe sturdier bench gives you a .25 MOA improvement every day all day..Thanks.
Beware of Norma Brass! Safety Warning! I got brass failure/head separation after only 3 loadings. Using the same load with Hornady brass, I have had absolutely no problems. The Hornady brass have been loaded 16-18 times! Buy Hornady and don't take a chance on getting injured with Norma brass.
Hi Reuben, Thank you for your comment. I do try and get the names correct but am frequently unsuccessful. (I struggle with Hornady as well) The best I can tell if you are concerned is the below: Just a little language detail, if you'll excuse me: Lapua is not pronounced LaPOOah but LAH-poah with the first "a" vowel stressed, short and pretty much like you pronounce the "o" in "concentrate". Also seen in this video here: ua-cam.com/video/INK-8K9xx_c/v-deo.html at around 40 seconds in. Again I am not perfect, I do try, but sometimes I am unsuccessful. Thanks for watching.
I am relatively new to 6.5 Creedmoor, but have used Lapua brass in .308 and prefer it over most others available in that caliber because of its relative uniformity. My guess is that the flatter line on the velocity chart, possibly due to the smaller primer and flash hole, are intentional in order to reduce variability in velocities over a range of environmental conditions such as temp, humidity, pressure, altitude. Just a hunch but it seems reasonable. Kudos on the Videos and the Channel. Very informative and not too much bs. As agent Friday of 'Dragnet' infamy would say, "Just the Facts, maam, Just the Facts". Keep up the good work. When I have some time I'll go back and pull out the data to run it through my Quickload program and let you know what I find.
Awesome series, earned a sub
Glad you enjoy it. Welcome to the channel. Btw I recently covered the Peterson brass as well. It's good stuff if your looking.
Wish someone will do all the videos on 223 rem . Dies, brass,bullet and powder for a bolt gun to achieve 1moa at 500m . We south African don't have the luxury of having so much awesome products. Really nice job on the 6.5 crd
excellent analysis, thank you for your hard work and sharing it with us. From my own accuracy journey I have come to the conclusion that I will have 2 different loads in both 123g and 140g bullets. One will be for shooting tiny groups on paper@ 200yrds, my Max range on paper at my club and a second load for 1000yrd shooting. So far, believe it or not my most accurate 200yrd group with 140's has been using 4895 36gr which yielded a .313" @200 for 5 shots. The velocity was lower, 2600fps, at 100yrds the group was literally 1 hole. For my 1000 yrd load I want more velocity which I can comfortably get with RL17
Thanks for the comment. I agree that there are a lot of factors that you need to consider. For short range honestly the 129gr have worked great for me but they cetainly arent a long range option, But so far for long range I think I am going to be leaning on the 140 ELD or maybe the 147 ELD. I really want to get this RDF to shoot better, I haven't given up but time will tell I guess.
Thank you for making great and relevant info series. Really appreciate it. Question...did I miss in the video were you mentioning the neck wall thickness on all cases ? Thank you again.
Thanks for commenting. Check out the new series I compare them all. ua-cam.com/video/FKWGgO4arvU/v-deo.html
243 brass, initially trimmed to 1.930", one pass sizing through a Lee F/L sizer die and final trim to 1.910".
Works for me. Accurate and costs next to nothing. Whatsmore, fun to make and shoot. If I lose one while shooting too bad.
The mandrel you are using what is its diameter.263? Can I take my hornady fl die remove expander ball run the case through the die and then a .263 mandrel .? So would I have .001 neck tension.?
I am relatively new to the 6.5 creedmoor ( just over a year) I have worked several loads on different brass. I bought Lapua Brass but have not had time to load it. I have worked up loads using Norma, Hornady and Nosler Brass. I have found that the consistency of Nosler brass to be my go to brass. I am curious why use IMR4350 over H4350? I also use Redding bushing neck size die along with the Sinclair mandrel inside neck size. I have found it to be more consistent than using expanded ball. I have used both the cci benchrest primer and the fed. gm210m primer with almost duplicate results from both. @100 yds I am punching one hole .285 and at 300 yds I am grouping @ 1.325. I am sure that there is some shooter error to get the spread that far out. What other bullets have you shot in your testing? I have tried Sierra 130tmk and the Hornady 140ELD. I recently purchased IMR4451 to test with both bullets and use Lapua brass and Nosler brass. Have you tried this powder yet? Is it different temp sensitivity than 4350? Great video... thanks for the information...
+Mark Kennicott welcome to the channel. I have not tried the nosler brass, but for the purposes of this testing, I didn't want to buy 100 cases that I didn't "need". My channel isn't big enough yet, so all testing is funded by me. So it just didn't make the cut. I would like to have tested more but I guess I had to draw the line somewhere.
As for your H4350 question, 2 reasons, first on did a workup with it already here: ua-cam.com/video/KDW4prGjqgs/v-deo.html andbthe nosler book data lists this IMR 4350 the highest velocity with Sammi pressure.
I just bought the neck die so I will probably do a video on it further down there road. Check out my channel, there are lots of load workups on there. I encourage you to subscribe so you know when I post new videos (weekly) and sheets feel free to comment. This is all just me learning as well. I have a primer comparison test loaded, I just need to shoot it and put the data together and that video will be along as well. If there is something you can't find let me know that too, I am always looking for good ideas for a new video.
I wonder if a magnum primer may be needed for the Lapua brass due to the small flash hole. thanks for the vid, great info.
I think the exact same way. I honestly have a large rifle primer test already loaded and the small rifle testing in the Lapua brass hopefully won't be far behind.
My Father in law and I both are just starting into the lapua brass, and he has already had significant improvement with a small magnum primer.
We are shooting the 140 ELDs & Berger VLDs "hunting".
I am going to try a few different powders, but his best load so far has been with RL17, and CCI 450s.
Good videos, and good shooting to all.
+Brian Martin thanks for the comment. A primer test is definitely in the works. I have had pretty good luck with Rl-17, have you tried H4350 or too hard to find?
I have only used H4350 in the Hornady brass to try duplication of the Hornady factory match 140 ELDs.
I will soon try it with the Lapua.
I'm shooting two different rifles with these loads also. One is a Savage LRP factory 26" tube, the other a REM 700 action with a 30" Bartlein.
I have found one load that works really well in both rifles with FF brass to each chamber. RL19, charge of 43.0, and 140 VLD Berger.
Sitting at bench working up new loads now. Will let you know results as soon as conditions are Right.
+Brian Martin great to hear. Best of luck!
Need 25-06 brass can’t find anything in stock except hornady ant Lapua or Nossler but lapua doesn’t make 25-06 I known I can buy 30-06 and run it through my die what about 270 .?
I shoot .5ish moa consistently with my Hornady brass,140 rdf & 40.2gr 4350 in my Howa APC.I get the exact same results shooting the factory match grade hornady stuff as well.Ive not played with my coal (2.805) yet though,just done my load development so far,next cab of the rank! Was just seeing my groups and deviation open up last couple sessions, think i pushed my luck without annealing as i was on my 4th or 5th reload or i was just due for a full size maybe? Im just learning have only been loading about 6 months, no way of measuring headspace yet,waiting for stuff to arrive...Ive got 100 annealed,full sized loaded and ready to go, just waiting for weather to play ball...
I still struggle to understand your insanity. But your insanity has some great info. Awesome vid, Mopar.
Glad to see you in the comments. I can not explain my insanity, sometimes its just the journey that makes it all worth while I guess. I really hope that somewhere in my extreme over examination of everything that somebody solves a problem or makes there journey a little easier. Don't give up on me yet, I am hoping to really narrow down some great loads to take to distance.
+meditech glad to hear of your accomplishment. There group size certainly sounds good. Does the SD bother you so all? I wonder if that causes you trouble at 1000 yards?
moparmadman Anything under 15 I have found to be a non issue. I shoot at a 24x24 inch plate. i wiggle more moa than that few feet of velocity will throw it off. I would be wanting a little better if I was bench resting rather than stretching it out.
Thanks for all your effort. Great Vid. In line with my testing you are much more accurate. Your water test is spot on with what I have. So much to talk about on this subject, I use Quick Load for a reference and have found that seating depth, case capacity, and charge have most effect on velocity(powder being the same). Actual readings(magneto speed) are about 100fps different more for magneto. I believe you are narrowing this down to seating depth and neck tension if powder and bullet are the same. Got my velocity up with lapua brass with seating depth. Thanks again just which could communicate outside of youtube.
Thanks for the comments as always. I am always happy to see you in the comments. Glad I am not crazy, but I really wish this made more sense than it does. Shortening this round doesn't make any sense and like I mentioned before, with the lower case volume I would expect the Lapua to be faster. At this point neck tension and magnum primer are my first thoughts. Ed Mobley from the 6.5 guys was commenting back and forth with me a little and mentioned that they are using the magnum primers in the Lapua brass. I am certainly going to give it a try. Try sending me a message through the about tab on my channel.
I replied to your message. Just FYI. I somehow don't get notified of messages only comments.
I wonder if the Lapua velocity drop off would be due to the smaller primers not producing as good ignition for the heavier charges giving lower velocities once the charges went up. It may also be one of the factors reducing case stretch?
+Denis LeBlanc I wonder this as well. With the lower case capacity my first thought was I should have seen higher velocity. A primer test is coming for sure. Thanks for commenting.
I can add a little to that CCI BR-4 vs Fed small rifle around 8fps
I am sure that the small primer and the hole size has all to do with the falling off of velocity in the high volume powder loads. I would bet that the primer is not up to igniting the extra powder even though it did close to the other cases in velocity with the lighter loads. It's like a comparison of apples and oranges with the Lapua Brass because of the small primer that is less efficient to ignite the powder being used. 4350 is a slow burning powder. I would think if using a faster burning powder the gap would decrease on the high end. I think it is best sticking with a large primer in the Creedmoor that is what it was designed with and it makes it a better cartridge when loaded with 4350 which so many people find to make their more accurate loads.
+Garry Talley you might want to check out my primer comparison (both large and small) videos... But draw your own conclusions. Thanks for commenting.
Obviously Lapua small primer is a major difference in velocity. They are theorizing a small primer will have the least effect on standard deviation because of it being a smaller percentage of the charge. So to get equal velocity out of this case it would require a greater charge. Also one can weigh the cases themselves without bothering with water weights for case capacity. Generally speaking a heavier case usually means more brass less case capacity. Been there done that. Case weighing is a great way to get cases that are more alike. When shooting inexpensive bullets weighing individual bullets is necessary as well. With good bullets it isn't necessary with Hornady, Barnes, Sierra, Speer etc. I do like your videos. If you want a good neck sizing die one should look at the Lee Collet Dies. Don't laugh, they are the least expensive but they work as good as anyone else's neck sizing dies even better than most and it's unnecessary to have to buy individual bushings. One can purchase a smaller de-capper mandrel for a smaller neck opening for a tighter fit on bullets if one wishes. They even help uniform the thickness on the case neck over time with compression when neck sizing. I use to neck turn all my brass and with the Lee Collet Die it is less needed. You get a truer neck alignment by the dies design.
+Garry Talley well depending on the info you are looking forninam going to do a update to my brass video in the next week or 2. I do already have a series on this with Hornady, Norma, and lapua however. I did not use mag primers so that was a oops on my part. I have been doing some water weighing and I am not sure there is correlation. I understand the theory, but I am not sure our works in practice.
Great information. I'm now getting serious into precision shooting with the 6.5. I've ordered a case of Lapua brass and would like to neck only size. What size bushing did you use for the Lapua?
What brand are you planning on going with? The Redding for me have run smaller than the hornady.
I guess I should ask too if you are planning on using an expanding device or just using the same bushing to size?
Looking at the Redding Type S die you referred to and Wilson bushings. Someone said they found them to be made more accurately. What expander die would you recommend?
I can see that the expander would hold each bullet more consistently, as neck thickness can be different from casing to casing.
I use a sinclair expander mandrel that you can check out my video here: ua-cam.com/video/yyh5mlEa5Xc/v-deo.html
Redding neck sizing die stretches the brass. Lee neck sizing die does not stretch the brass. Use Lee instead for neck sizing
I do not understand why you feel the redding die stretches the brass? The lee collet die requires a normal flash hole that the Lapua brass does not have.
Redding forces the mouth of the case to less than 6.5 on the up stroke as the case is pressed up into the die. Then there is a "forcing cone" on the decapping pin to bring the case mouth back to 6.5. Lee neck resizing dies literally press the mouth of the case against the decapping pin on the fullest extent of the upstroke and there is any resizing on the down stroke of the press. I highly suggest trying a Lee neck sizing die but only the neck sizing die. Other dies are superior IMO. I do have both Redding and Lee neck resizing dies and have used both. I tried the Redding and saw some stretching after neck resizing but no stretching with the Lee. Lee also recommends turning the case 50% and resizing the neck again. This results in perfectly centering the mouth to the case and did my a difference in my experience.
+David Peterson this die is a bushing die and I am relying on the Sinclair mandrel die to bring the mouth to the proper dimension. Since I am using a .288 bushing I really don't think that the over sizing is very dramatic. I agree if I were using a ball expander but I am not.
FWIW I use a Forster Neck Size/Bump die and a Sinclair mandrel die. That combination yields a consistent 0.002" neck tension and concentricity remains consistently under 0.001" using Lapua brass. I find both first and second firings have not grown significantly, and average velocity is 2665 fps. My RPR is pretty consistent at 0.7 MOA which may be the best 75 year old eye will allow.
For the time being I am staying with 40.9gr of H4350 and a CBTO of 2.205" which is roughly 0.020" of the lands. I think I can do better but other matters are using up my time.
Odd that the Lapua having a smaller internal volume had a lower velocity compared to Hornady. You would think that it would be inverse as pressure should have been higher in the Lapua
Hi Jeremy. I thought this as well. I have done some research on this and I have a suspicion that I have to confirm with testing. Stick around and I will have a video for sure.
Just a quick question to give your velocity data some perspective: What was the barrel length you were shooting with?
+Pretzul 24"
Bolt Action Reloading Excellent, thank you!
+Pretzul no problem. Thanks for watching. New brass video comes out today. Hope you like it.
well that was a mess of info that went way over my head, lol...still to produce my first handloads ever. by the looks of it tho for hornady, still the best case despite its short comings. look forward to your next vid :)
Lonz, if you haven't bought brass I would bet on Lapua. I think there are just some details to work out. Stay tuned, more to come as always.
moparmadman I have 100 Hornady brass new in their packaging, 200 ct 140gr ELD-M bullets and 2lbs of H4350 so far...building my reloading bench when I get home in a week
Sounds like you have a great start. Take a look at the 10 shot shootout video, .030 off the lands and 41.3 grains and you will be at 1/2 a MOA before you know it. Next video is a follow up to it. Its a keeper and the best load yet. Hope it doesn't spoil it for you.
I think the small rifle primer would not be enough for cold weather shooting.
I have only tried Hornady brass on this load, "NORMA for my 7mm" but can easily get ~.35 MOA with a few deferent loads. I think the key is to NOT mix the brass. I just don't think you are seeing the difference in the brass because of other Noise factors. Also my first thought as other said was small rifle primer might not ignite the larger loads.
crazy doing all of this can't get down to .25 moa or lower. BARREL is inconsistent lap it or buy cut rifled barrel
Well I agree and disagree. I do think that I am likely losing some accuracy to my barrel, but I would never bet that I could consistently shoot .25 MOA if I had a perfect rifle. My honest plans are to wear this one out and go with something like a LRI. I think I have a couple loads that are going to be worthy of testing at a 1000 or so but you never know. I hope that the average guy can strap a scope to a budget rifle and be able to compete with guys that seem to have bottomless wallets.
Great data but I have to agree a little. NOT with .25 MOA but ~.5 MOA. Although I am using factor Browning Eclipse 6.5 creed I would have to be Drunk to shoot > 1MOA. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe you are missing something at a higher level That would greatly improve group size. I love the data and it's out of my league at this time and have bee wanting to take it to this level so "THANKS" So trying to be helpful back. What kind of Bench are you shooting off, is it stable ? Are you sure you are calculating MOA correct? Have you measured the wind, what is MPH. Just trying to give constructive criticism. Please try some Berger 130Gs My pet load is 42.5 G H4350 Berger 130 VLD COAL 2.850I just think trying to squeeze out the last .01 MOA should wait until you figure out the low hanging fruit. Example maybe sturdier bench gives you a .25 MOA improvement every day all day..Thanks.
Beware of Norma Brass! Safety Warning! I got brass failure/head separation after only 3 loadings. Using the same load with Hornady brass, I have had absolutely no problems. The Hornady brass have been loaded 16-18 times! Buy Hornady and don't take a chance on getting injured with Norma brass.
Laaa-pooo-ahhhhh.
Hi Reuben, Thank you for your comment. I do try and get the names correct but am frequently unsuccessful. (I struggle with Hornady as well) The best I can tell if you are concerned is the below:
Just a little language detail, if you'll excuse me: Lapua is not pronounced LaPOOah but LAH-poah with the first "a" vowel stressed, short and pretty much like you pronounce the "o" in "concentrate".
Also seen in this video here:
ua-cam.com/video/INK-8K9xx_c/v-deo.html at around 40 seconds in.
Again I am not perfect, I do try, but sometimes I am unsuccessful. Thanks for watching.
Bolt Action Reloading
I stand corrected!