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Pls do more alternative history videos like this. Like use this kind of concept and put it in to videos about the American Civil War , January Uprising 1863 , Ukrainian Anarchist Victory. Those videos would be intresting to watch! 🍦🍨🍦🍨🍦
More alternate history please! An alternate Turkish War of Liberation, Spanish Civil War, Russian Civil War etc would be very interesting. Edit: Chinese alternate history has so much untapped potential, as there are many specific important events that shaped Chinese history for centuries, which makes it easier to predict imo than Europe, and it's also very unexplored.
Doing alternate history with Polandballs is something I've genuinely dreamed about, and I've also wondered what a successful Taiping China would look like. Thank you for bringing this to life!
the final scenario sounds like an interesting one. Tibet would definitely become interesting too, because the British would secure it away from both Taiping and Qing influence as a Protectorate. Lots of potential for an interesting Manchurian equivalent of the Young Turks who work with Japan and Russia to modernize the Qing. The Guangxu Emperor was actually pro reform and modernization, and if the Empress Dowager Cixi was removed and he had a resilient base of support he might actually succeed.
Tibet more likely under British influence and will gain qinghai and western Sichuan. Qing emperor and his loyalist more likely under Russian proctetorate
In an alternate ww2, such a war would go as horribly as if the US was 10x closer to Japan, there wouldn’t be a contest unless Japan managed to develop even faster.
It could still happen, since Japanese are buddhist/shinto mix. Not something Taiping christians would like It would be rather funny to see Japan and Russia become firm allies against threat of Taiping China
Either that, or Japan and China enter a rivalry over who would be The Asian Power in a similar manner to the Franco-British rivalry in Europe. That would certainly be interesting.
I love the idea of using polandballs to tell alternate history, let alone history. I also love how you made multiple alternative scenarios. Hope you keep on uploading new content😁
The hidden ending: The Taiping, recognizing the difficulty of their situation, invite over emperor Joshua Norton, who is crowned as emperor of China. Under his leadership the Taiping go on to crush the Qing and are successful in modernizing, with the average Chinese having no different life to that of the average European or American. Following both popular and foreign pressure (in the form of the new Chinese blue water fleet, which easily surpasses all other countries' fleets, the American congress is forced to pass the act of union of 1874, giving rise to the Sino-American union.
Note: The best case scenario would also probably be the longest to make as China even before a civil war was pretty bad and for the Taiping to win it would devastate China meaning they would need to implement the reforms probably a century after Qing collapse (although that’s the worst case for the best case) and trying to stop all the European meddling that was before the rebellion
It do be interesting to imagine how these alternate timelines would play out in the long run, through 20th century, world war 1 and 2, the cold war etc 🍦
My thoughts exactly! China becomes much more stable, new alliances and power dynamics that bring about less devastation if there is still to be some sort of WW2, and China is far less likely to fall to illuring Godless Communism.
I absolutely love the idea of china being devided into qing and taiping. I think russia would have allied with taiping more to take manchuria from china while france would have wanted qing to survive.
That got me thinking. What if Michał Boym mission was successful and Zhu Youlang (Yongli Emperor of Southern Ming) got help from Catholic powers like Portugal, Papal States and Venice (and potential from other Catholic countries)? Could Catholic Chinese state consisting of Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangxi, Guangdong and Hainan survive? Or even united China? For those who do not known, Yongli was last Southern Ming Emperor, who really needed help from the West, so he allowed a lot of Jesuit Missionaries in his court, who manage to convert to Catholicism his main wife, his mother, his heir and main wife of his father. Yongli himself probably waited with the conversion as bargaining chip for the help he needed. Yongli send Polish Jesuit Michał Boym for him to gather help, but European Catholic powers assumed it was a forgone conclusion that Southern Ming will fell, and tried to stop Boym multiple times from reaching to Catholic monarchs and then returning him back to China. Boym did not manage to return Yongli dying somewhere in China, but one of the Chinese courtiers who went him on the journey managed to return to Yongli, but unfortunately he had only thoughts and prayers.
🍦 As an American, I say that would have been really nice. I'm curious what someone from China would think? I hear many are actually somewhat favorable to the Taiping looking back in history.
The worst-case scenario forgets that, in our timeline, Hong Xiuquan abdicated in all but name in 1853. By 1856, the two maddest of the Taiping leaders, Hong Xiuquan and Yang Xiuqing, were out of the picture and the “saner” leaders were actually trying to win the war. With Hong Xiuquan out of the picture, it matters less to the fate of Hong Rengan’s modernization plans if the Taipings take Beijing without modernization.
I think in such a timeline, Xiuquan manages to modernize China, but also becomes a power-hungry theocrat. Like a Christian Chinese version of Joseph Stalin. So I’ll go with the first two scenarios, but the third seems more likely.
Do an episode on the Meiji period, 1854-1877 (or to 1905, when they beat the Russians at Tsushima). That or the Boxer Rebellion, aka History's biggest crossover episode.
They did tho. It is just the Qing modernist effort did not come from the State (given it was bankrupt and had to pay huge reparations), but by local governors. The Taiping was beaten by modernist Qing force after all.
For partial victory you kinda forget another variable which north East Asian nationalism After all losing such huge Han population can trigger Qing to become staunchly anti-Han and pro-North East Asian Which could force them or compel them to modernize especially in the core northern territories
One thing to consider is the influence religious and ethnic minorities of the west and north west. We might see another great game, between Russia and the UK, fighting over control of half a dozen autonomies and puppets.
China would be a lot smaller. Manchuria, Tibet and Mongolia would seperate. The muslims in the west would create a muslim Chinese state. Also the Turks would create their own state in Xinjiang.
That last one would only last till after ww1 assuming that it goes the same way and doesn’t pull a kiserriech and Germany wins because the worlds going to be more screwed up than what happened in real life
I think even a modernized Taiping china would still need to let European powers to keep their treaty ports (at least till the Great War) but might be able to renegotiate the specifics of them and alot of other concessions especially railroads and similar inland investments successfully. Further if modernization is particularly successful I can see them getting a variety of them back over time anyways with probably Hong Kong being the only more long term hold out.
Why would you assume that christianization would be rapid? Most of the taiping soldiers joined because they hated the Manchus, not because they gave a shit about Jesus
My man Christianity spread like wildfire when given legitimacy (i.e victory over the Machus) and a theocratic state built upon it would have increased that speed faster remember china already have a established christian community during this period their persecution however after the Taiping rebellion and the communist revolution targeted them specifically is the reason why china have very little christians in it.
That kinda the thing, Christianity is a very stubborn and strong Faith that the newly converted is more fanatical than those who have been devout for Years.@@i.hate.swedish.ISRAELUBERALLES
What if Taiping is so powerful, that it invades east asia, and we get an American-Japanese alliance, making Japan succeed in its empire, making modern china only China proper (non-Communist, as America invades it), with Manchuria as a mandate or independant nation, with the Qing as the constitutional monarchy.
alternate history huh? cody from alternate history hub isn't going to like that you are muscling in on his turf. sleep with your eyes open Ezekiel he's coming for you.
🍦China be bing chilling.
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Pls do more alternative history videos like this.
Like use this kind of concept and put it in to videos about the American Civil War , January Uprising 1863 ,
Ukrainian Anarchist Victory.
Those videos would be intresting to watch!
🍦🍨🍦🍨🍦
More alternate history please! An alternate Turkish War of Liberation, Spanish Civil War, Russian Civil War etc would be very interesting.
Edit: Chinese alternate history has so much untapped potential, as there are many specific important events that shaped Chinese history for centuries, which makes it easier to predict imo than Europe, and it's also very unexplored.
Forgive me where did this info that the Taipings were sympathetic to Confucianism, because from what I read that was not the case?
Doing alternate history with Polandballs is something I've genuinely dreamed about, and I've also wondered what a successful Taiping China would look like. Thank you for bringing this to life!
Ikr
@@Franckia Yep.
@@nathanseper8738there’s another Countryballs alt hist channel called SwinceBall that uses Hoi4 to tell his stories. You should check him out.
I don't see how Poland changes this
(Late comment)
Josh sullivan history also does this
I like the Taiping-Qing split idea, someone needs to write a Romance of the Two Kingdoms with Western involvement. That will be a pretty cool story.
As a amateur writer, I may try to take such honorable request, but I do not promise that I will able to deliver a tale worthy of its own potential
A second round of Northern and Southern Dynasties
“Chaos is a ladder.”
But somehow Hong Xiuquan fell off a ladder real hard.
That's why you don't do weed(s).
@@occam7382true
@@occam7382See, this is a way more effective a deterrent than Scruff McGruff.
Ezekiel is single-handedly carrying Taiping content for UA-cam.
And it's glorious!
Ezekiel Alternate History? Let’s go! Hopefully this becomes a series
the final scenario sounds like an interesting one. Tibet would definitely become interesting too, because the British would secure it away from both Taiping and Qing influence as a Protectorate.
Lots of potential for an interesting Manchurian equivalent of the Young Turks who work with Japan and Russia to modernize the Qing. The Guangxu Emperor was actually pro reform and modernization, and if the Empress Dowager Cixi was removed and he had a resilient base of support he might actually succeed.
Tibet would be in british influence while manchuria would be in russia influence. I wonder how it would effect the great game.
Tibet more likely under British influence and will gain qinghai and western Sichuan.
Qing emperor and his loyalist more likely under Russian proctetorate
4:30 nooo I get that reference😭
Kaliningrad General right?
If taiping modernized I don't think Japan would have challenged china.
In an alternate ww2, such a war would go as horribly as if the US was 10x closer to Japan, there wouldn’t be a contest unless Japan managed to develop even faster.
It could still happen, since Japanese are buddhist/shinto mix. Not something Taiping christians would like
It would be rather funny to see Japan and Russia become firm allies against threat of Taiping China
Either that, or Japan and China enter a rivalry over who would be The Asian Power in a similar manner to the Franco-British rivalry in Europe. That would certainly be interesting.
@@occam7382I think Japan would ally with China
@@gregoryturk1275, why? Japan and China have been rivals since medieval times. Why would they become friends now?
I love the idea of using polandballs to tell alternate history, let alone history. I also love how you made multiple alternative scenarios. Hope you keep on uploading new content😁
It is actually criminal how underrated Ezekiels channel is
The hidden ending: The Taiping, recognizing the difficulty of their situation, invite over emperor Joshua Norton, who is crowned as emperor of China. Under his leadership the Taiping go on to crush the Qing and are successful in modernizing, with the average Chinese having no different life to that of the average European or American. Following both popular and foreign pressure (in the form of the new Chinese blue water fleet, which easily surpasses all other countries' fleets, the American congress is forced to pass the act of union of 1874, giving rise to the Sino-American union.
Why not let Norton become Emperor of the World at that point.
@@thunderstruck6647world government?
@@thunderstruck6647YES INDEED
The one where he became mad is literally HRE in tno.
The HRE was underrated/ glorious.
CallmeEzekiel is doing the taiping rebellion justice
You’re doing alternate history videos now? that sounds great, I’d love more!
I find it funny that this was released as I was doing a Model UN conference on the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom
How did that work/go?
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 didn't win any personal awards, but it worked out quite nicely
@MaskedCanadian13 Nice, I hope it was fun.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 it was. i defected from the qing to the taiping and china ended up getting invaded by russia
@@MaskedCanadian13 tough break. Who put that conference on?
Note: The best case scenario would also probably be the longest to make as China even before a civil war was pretty bad and for the Taiping to win it would devastate China meaning they would need to implement the reforms probably a century after Qing collapse (although that’s the worst case for the best case) and trying to stop all the European meddling that was before the rebellion
This cause they having debt to funding their reform.
I am literally that Polandball at the beginning.
I love the Kaliningrad General Easter egg 😂
Countryball and Alternate History is a dream come true!
This searies truly has bren bing chilling 🍦
In all CRIMINALLY underated!
This channel is seriously underated
Would love to see a Taiping Rebellion Mod for Vic 3 based on these ideas.
dang Victoria 3 doesn't even have the Taiping Rebellion? common Victoria 3 L.
@@Archangel72 just did some research and it seems that the rebellion is in the game but there's not that much substance to them
@@Archangel72 its in vic3 and does contribute to the qing collapse, but it's really not in depth
I never thought a alternate history would happen on this channel
Congrats for hitting 100k
Another god added to the Alternate History Pantheon.
It do be interesting to imagine how these alternate timelines would play out in the long run, through 20th century, world war 1 and 2, the cold war etc 🍦
My thoughts exactly! China becomes much more stable, new alliances and power dynamics that bring about less devastation if there is still to be some sort of WW2, and China is far less likely to fall to illuring Godless Communism.
The video I always wanted to see!
Taiping Victory would have been a nightmare, assuming it got anywhere tbh
I absolutely love the idea of china being devided into qing and taiping. I think russia would have allied with taiping more to take manchuria from china while france would have wanted qing to survive.
(Most based ending)
@@schneejacques3502So the third outcome is basically an early cold war scenario in the 19th century? Sounds cool ngl.
@@schneejacques3502russia will allied with qing and grant them protection because qing are weak now.
China will disintegrate and European especially Russian and British will profiting from this
That got me thinking. What if Michał Boym mission was successful and Zhu Youlang (Yongli Emperor of Southern Ming) got help from Catholic powers like Portugal, Papal States and Venice (and potential from other Catholic countries)? Could Catholic Chinese state consisting of Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangxi, Guangdong and Hainan survive? Or even united China?
For those who do not known, Yongli was last Southern Ming Emperor, who really needed help from the West, so he allowed a lot of Jesuit Missionaries in his court, who manage to convert to Catholicism his main wife, his mother, his heir and main wife of his father. Yongli himself probably waited with the conversion as bargaining chip for the help he needed. Yongli send Polish Jesuit Michał Boym for him to gather help, but European Catholic powers assumed it was a forgone conclusion that Southern Ming will fell, and tried to stop Boym multiple times from reaching to Catholic monarchs and then returning him back to China. Boym did not manage to return Yongli dying somewhere in China, but one of the Chinese courtiers who went him on the journey managed to return to Yongli, but unfortunately he had only thoughts and prayers.
Wow!
4:31 bruh the screams 💀
Best timeline
Nah Sun Yat Sen's ROC is best timeline
@@foundationgamer9771 Sun Yat Sen was a badass.
Qing best timeline
Will the “thug shaker” still exist in these timelines?
This is pretty dapper
These scenarios are very fun. However, to quote Helmut von Moltke the Elder: "No plan survives contact with the enemy." And neither does a scenario.
Trully a Bing Chillin 🍦 scenario
Amazing series
If this happened it would likely become china's version of taboritsky
I World like to suggest the next video to be about the great northern war
🍦 As an American, I say that would have been really nice.
I'm curious what someone from China would think? I hear many are actually somewhat favorable to the Taiping looking back in history.
That isn’t true most mainland Chinese people like the government though that could be from propaganda
I like the Hoi4 reference
Please do more videos of what if 🙏
The worst-case scenario forgets that, in our timeline, Hong Xiuquan abdicated in all but name in 1853. By 1856, the two maddest of the Taiping leaders, Hong Xiuquan and Yang Xiuqing, were out of the picture and the “saner” leaders were actually trying to win the war. With Hong Xiuquan out of the picture, it matters less to the fate of Hong Rengan’s modernization plans if the Taipings take Beijing without modernization.
4:32 💀
I LOVE ALTERNATE HISTORY!
Damn right before a hoi4 mod with this exact idea releases
I think in such a timeline, Xiuquan manages to modernize China, but also becomes a power-hungry theocrat. Like a Christian Chinese version of Joseph Stalin. So I’ll go with the first two scenarios, but the third seems more likely.
What if Finland won the Winter war and took all of Karelia and Kola Peninsula?
🍦 China be bing chilling
Master Duel music at the end lol
The good ending.
Bing Chillin 🍦
Do an episode on the Meiji period, 1854-1877 (or to 1905, when they beat the Russians at Tsushima).
That or the Boxer Rebellion, aka History's biggest crossover episode.
Bing Chilling 🍦
Hmm i start imagine now Taiping Role in world stage loool like when in ww1
Pls do more kind of These Althistory Videos!
Ok I am intrigued, partial victory all the way.
Alternative history using countryballs. Nice
Taiping ruler China would something 🍦🍦
Very interesting
🍨🥶bing chilling🥶
You should make more althist videos this went hard
Do video about the boxer rebellion
Does anyone know what the song for the partial taiping victory is? it sounds beautiful!
Oh my god. You started making alternative history. Please make a Boshin war alternative. I would be so happy. :D
Heaven be bless, more Taiping content! 手持三尺定山河，太平一統樂如何
🍦 Bing Chilling
🍦, hm, these are some interesting timelines, I think doctor strange missed some
Finnally posted!
What if the Quing modernised during the Taipeng civil war?
They did tho. It is just the Qing modernist effort did not come from the State (given it was bankrupt and had to pay huge reparations), but by local governors. The Taiping was beaten by modernist Qing force after all.
They already did it
For partial victory you kinda forget another variable which north East Asian nationalism
After all losing such huge Han population can trigger Qing to become staunchly anti-Han and pro-North East Asian
Which could force them or compel them to modernize especially in the core northern territories
What if
Poland can into space?
One thing to consider is the influence religious and ethnic minorities of the west and north west. We might see another great game, between Russia and the UK, fighting over control of half a dozen autonomies and puppets.
China would be a lot smaller. Manchuria, Tibet and Mongolia would seperate. The muslims in the west would create a muslim Chinese state. Also the Turks would create their own state in Xinjiang.
Xinjiang would fell under Russian influence
YOOOO I LOVE THIS!!!
Would the modernisation have been successful, or would it have resembled the Khedivate of Egypt?
More likely khedivete of Egypt because Meiji type westernization is still unthinkable
Alternate history idea what if Josiah ruled the world
It seems killing and stuff people don’t care about if it’s from someone they support
🍦China be Bing Chilling rn 😂
branching out, i see.
Does anyone know what the soundtrack at the beginning of the video (around 1:40) is called?
That last one would only last till after ww1 assuming that it goes the same way and doesn’t pull a kiserriech and Germany wins because the worlds going to be more screwed up than what happened in real life
How do you figure?
Can we do kaisserich mod
I think even a modernized Taiping china would still need to let European powers to keep their treaty ports (at least till the Great War) but might be able to renegotiate the specifics of them and alot of other concessions especially railroads and similar inland investments successfully. Further if modernization is particularly successful I can see them getting a variety of them back over time anyways with probably Hong Kong being the only more long term hold out.
They will economically dependent on Britain
I love you all ❤❤❤
Hi-C >
🍦Bing Chiling
Why would you assume that christianization would be rapid? Most of the taiping soldiers joined because they hated the Manchus, not because they gave a shit about Jesus
My man Christianity spread like wildfire when given legitimacy (i.e victory over the Machus) and a theocratic state built upon it would have increased that speed faster remember china already have a established christian community during this period their persecution however after the Taiping rebellion and the communist revolution targeted them specifically is the reason why china have very little christians in it.
Eastern religions are more flexible also peasants doesn't have that much fanatical loyalty to any belief
That kinda the thing, Christianity is a very stubborn and strong Faith that the newly converted is more fanatical than those who have been devout for Years.@@i.hate.swedish.ISRAELUBERALLES
Hong only nominally Christian like he even don't get baptism
@@lettuceman9439the problem Taiping not even Christian
Music used?!!
Nice
But china whould have forgotten there culture Buddhism and many more
Hong actually only nominally Christian and most of his general and soldiers are believer of taoism
I'm sure Cody from alternative history hub is proud
anyone know where to find the tracks used?
What if Taiping is so powerful, that it invades east asia, and we get an American-Japanese alliance, making Japan succeed in its empire, making modern china only China proper (non-Communist, as America invades it), with Manchuria as a mandate or independant nation, with the Qing as the constitutional monarchy.
Algorithm
What if Ethiopia beat Italy
1. Was meh to me
2. Idk why but was my favorite and seemed like the most interesting
3. Seemed more realistic even tho it isn’t in real life
alternate history huh? cody from alternate history hub isn't going to like that you are muscling in on his turf. sleep with your eyes open Ezekiel he's coming for you.
🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦🍦
Yeah, I see no at all.