Looks good. If you need to heat your home during an extended outage you should consider a diesel or propane heater. This system will be good for baseline loads (lights, fridge, etc..). I also watch Offgrid Basement’s channel and his 24V system.
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the only real purpose was to have some baseline power for the fridge, phone chargers, etc. Really not trying to generate heat, but in worst case scenario we could run a space heater on the 750w setting and duty cycle it some. I know some people will set up a small tent in their house if power goes out and they need to keep a smaller space heated. That would probably be enough to keep from freezing at least.
Nice build!!! Safety thing to consider....I'm guessing your relying on the BMS's to protect the Batteries if a short of some kind were to happen at the batteries???? Something getting across the the batteries and arching....I didn't see any covers on the battery posts?????That big fuse for the DC input really needs to be on the Battery end of the feed wire to protect That wire.... You choose wire size to handle the Load and fuse size to protect the wire but the fuse has to be at the Source not the Load. The 18 inches or so of 2/0 wire from the battery to the terminal bar can burn up if a short were to happen with the fuse not at the battery POST (Source). In the Commercial world that fuse has to be at the battery post or within 6 inches. Don't rely on the BMS or if a AGM or Lead batteries were ever used. A inspector would insist on it. Same at the Solar panels.
Excellent video. I have several of those Epever in my main setup now and love them. I had 5 RICH Solar panels before and they always worked great for me. And I still have a few giandel inverters. Did a video on a smaller 12v model. Keep those videos coming! subscribed.
Another PowerQueen fan. We’re up up to six, 12v, 200ah Powerqueens, including the four in the bank we use to charge our Ford F150 lightning. We’ll be upgrading that from 10kw to 20kw in a few weeks.
Nice! Are you charging your truck off the Power Queen batteries. I was thinking of adding some more to make this system 10kwhrs and charging our EV. We have a Chevy Bolt.
At 4000 w surge, the maximum draw from your battery bank will be 167A. Your 24v inverter cannot draw all the power from a 12v battery. It needs a 24v battery. If you have 2-12v batteries in series for 24v. The 167A will be shared almost equally btw the batteries. That is 83.5A from each battery. A 4awg wire is enough to connect 2-12v batteries in series if the max amp draw is 167A. 4awg pure copper can handle up to 85A.
Hi, thanks for the feedback. My battery bank is a series parallel. Two 12v (100amphr) batteries in series to get 24v. Then two of these series sets in parallel connected to the junction block. 2/0 AWG can do 175amps using THWN wire. This would be enough to handle the 167 amps being pulled through the wires connecting the battery bank to the junction block. I do have smaller wire connecting the two 12v batteries in series. I suspect the 'surge' portion of the inverter operation is so short that the smaller wire wouldn't generate sufficient heat to cause problems. I'm not sure why else they would have suggested smaller wire, unless they are just wrong in the manual. That wouldn't really surprise me.
Cool, how many kwhrs? I'm actually thinking of up sizing this to 10kwhrs and charging our electric car. It only gets driven about 30 miles a day, so we could basically drive it entirely on solar for the most part if we assume 3 miles per kwhr.
Hey, just to let you know The Wire that you got going to. Your inverter needs to be upsize. To the same size that you are going to your batteries. Because those wires oR way under size. I have tried. The manufacturer size and found out that was a cause of the emperor shutting down. And The wire was Getting hot.
Yeah, I am very disappointed in the guidance that is provided from the mfg. I ended up sizing the wire feeding the inverter based off the 2000w continuous power. That puts it at about 83 amps, and the 2AWG can handle 130 amps assuming THHN wire. The surge current would be about 167 amps, but is only in short spurts. I think 2AWG would handle it, but going up in size would always be a safer option. Thanks for the feedback.
@joetalks.76 The space that I had I used What they use to hook up affordable homes. Along with 100 amp wire. Four going between the Solar panels found out that even they we're getting hot. At 24. Votes. The Wire that I had was what I had extra So I used it. All I was running is a refrigerator and 100 amp lights. All I was using. Where's harbor freight Solar steph
That bank is about 5kwhrs. If you assume 100% efficiency from your solar panels (which is NEVER the case), you would need about 900w. It's hard to predict the solar panel efficiency, but if you estimate it to be around 50%, then you would need 1.8kw of solar to charge them in 6 (ish) hours. For what its worth, the solar controller I have limits the charge rate to 1kw. This original design is for 2kw of solar panels so that you might get a flatter charge curve of 1kw throughout most of the day. I hope that helps, thanks for watching.
The red and black + and - junction boxes at the bottom of your board...where did you get those, sir? And thanks for posting your build, sir. Also, do you use battery terminal covers?
Hi. I bought them from Amazon. ASIN: B07THLX93D. As far as battery terminal covers, the batteries I bought came with some rubber terminal covers, and I just use those. I don't leave the batteries hooked up unless I have a need for the system. It isn't used on a daily basis.
I've used a 12v automotive battery charger to charge them before. You just have to change the connections to put the batteries in parallel. I intentionally kept it off the grid because I don't have anything in place to prevent back charging the grid in the event of a power outage.
It really depends on the insulation rating of the wire and the breaker size. We size the wire so that the breaker amperage is at max 80% the ampacity of the wire. This is THHN wire.. The ampacity of 8 gauge THHN wire is 55 amps, and 80% of 55 is 44 amps. So I probably could have gotten away with 8 gauge between the 40 amp solar breaker and the solar charger. I generally go by the rule of when in doubt on the wire size, go bigger.
Hey, I wanted to follow up on your question. I had told you that using THHN 8 gauge wire would probably be ok, but I double checked the heat rating on that breaker, and it is only 60C, so you can't use the 90C ampacity. The 60C ampacity of 8 gauge wire is 40 amps, so you are really not getting the full protection of the breaker. You should probably use the 6 gauge. I believe the solar supply wires have a different rating due to the insulation, etc. Hope this helps, but as always, consult a professional if you need more help.
lets clear this problem of weir size's up once and for all . when charging a battery power in put is amps irrespective of or voltage bank copasetic . 12 volte siystom or Or 24 volte Siystom it is So we ues to cabal suitable of carrying amp's like them on an ark welder our battery bank will adapt nicely to this point i use a simple gild line of fore determining the size . given meny of use do not have chats & graphs to tern to. the stander ark welder of 150 amps use's tow size of weir i opt for the larger size on 12 volt battery banks often the smaller size when used as jumper cabled get to hot Go for the heaver size of cable you find then in the good quality jumper cabal packs . often orange , Then we have the heavy Ark welder such a the , oxford welder Oil fold welder that pumps out a staging 200 amps this type of melty core cable is idle for large battery banks. from 24 volt & 48 volt siystom battery banks , that require heaver amp's to charge them. [ Remember amp are the systems by witch we fill our batteries with a check valve. not unlick a water tank with a check valve , think of it filing the tank as it dose so it develops presser from the filing tank. this presser pushing back on the incoming water & slows the fill. this batter slows the fill & more presser is added to fill. if this tacks place whit current [ presser in amps ] will heat's up the cabal & the larger cabal can except this current with out damage to the malty core cabal , But the smaller cabal Heats up to a point. Of Melting & will & often can start a fire . this is the way i use the cabling I'm going to use lower amps when charging do not over heat the cabal. Hirt amps will heat up the cabal. & keep cabals as short as you can hop this helps you ,
Hi, thanks for the feedback. I sized the wires based of the amp input/output specification of the components. One thing I found interesting is that the 8 AWG solar panel wire is rated with an ampacity of 55 amps, while normal 8 AWG is only rated for 40 amps (60 deg C).
So I'm just wondering, do you agree that I could get by with smaller wires if the inverter normally only draws about 83 amps at 2000W when not in a surge state? 2 AWG would be plenty large for that amp draw. Maybe this is how the manufacturer is justifying the smaller cable sizes in the chart. Sorry, but I am not overly familiar with welding cables you are talking about.
@@joetalks.76 You should size your cables for the maximum continuous rating of the inverter. Same with over current protection, You don't need to size for inrush/starting currents.
The research that I've done? You should never mix different size batteries and different companies. I'd like to put a UPS in my home so I bought two UPS inverters/chargers(2000w) and hooked up two batteries parallel to a 2000w inverter to back up my sub pump. My 1/2 horse sub pump comes on for 1minute and 20 seconds twice an hour. 1050w start. at 10 amps. then drops to 960w at 8.5 amps. @120 amp hour battery draw it will last 5 to 7 hours approx. Two 100AH batteries in parallel should last 10 to 15 hours or more? I have outdoor solar lights(street lights) Some nights they only last 2 hours? other nights they last 10+ hours. It has to be a sunny day to get a full charge. I'd like to go 100% off grid but I first need it to become economical.
I could see the benefits of keeping all the batteries the same brand to keep things consistent. I would think as long as the specs are the same, it wouldn't really matter. Thanks for the feedback.
👍👍Wow! It's really cool. See also: Solar power plant mounted in multi-storey building! (for survivors in the zombie apocalypse): Shorts version: ua-cam.com/video/k9AiiCLALRA/v-deo.html Full version: ua-cam.com/video/sOskjOsl-cA/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/users/shortsGuZc2KhHEs0?feature=share High Power Mega Coil gun! - UA-cam
I couldn't agree more. I DIY everything I can. My recommendations to hire someone are directed to those that don't know anything about electricity as a matter of safety. Otherwise, educate yourself and do it yourself.
Great build until you got to that cheap, low surge capacity, high frequency, transformerless inverter. High frequency inverters are not much more than a toy when it comes to reliability, performance and safety. They offer the poorest surge capacity ratings and a much short life expectancy than a real inverter that uses low frequency, transformer based technology, and because they don't have an iron core, copper wound output transformer to isolate the DC boost stage from its AC output, there is always the possibility that this cheap Chinese made inverter can pass DC current to your AC appliances and set them on fire.
Looks good. If you need to heat your home during an extended outage you should consider a diesel or propane heater.
This system will be good for baseline loads (lights, fridge, etc..).
I also watch Offgrid Basement’s channel and his 24V system.
Hey, thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the only real purpose was to have some baseline power for the fridge, phone chargers, etc. Really not trying to generate heat, but in worst case scenario we could run a space heater on the 750w setting and duty cycle it some. I know some people will set up a small tent in their house if power goes out and they need to keep a smaller space heated. That would probably be enough to keep from freezing at least.
Ah, the ol' circa 2019 Will Prowse system.
Yeah, his site is pretty awesome. I gave him credit in the video.
Nice build!!! Safety thing to consider....I'm guessing your relying on the BMS's to protect the Batteries if a short of some kind were to happen at the batteries???? Something getting across the the batteries and arching....I didn't see any covers on the battery posts?????That big fuse for the DC input really needs to be on the Battery end of the feed wire to protect That wire.... You choose wire size to handle the Load and fuse size to protect the wire but the fuse has to be at the Source not the Load. The 18 inches or so of 2/0 wire from the battery to the terminal bar can burn up if a short were to happen with the fuse not at the battery POST (Source). In the Commercial world that fuse has to be at the battery post or within 6 inches. Don't rely on the BMS or if a AGM or Lead batteries were ever used. A inspector would insist on it. Same at the Solar panels.
Excellent video. I have several of those Epever in my main setup now and love them. I had 5 RICH Solar panels before and they always worked great for me. And I still have a few giandel inverters. Did a video on a smaller 12v model. Keep those videos coming! subscribed.
Hi, thanks for the feedback. This is my first off grid solar build. I was pretty excited about it.
Nice tour of your system.
Another PowerQueen fan. We’re up up to six, 12v, 200ah Powerqueens, including the four in the bank we use to charge our Ford F150 lightning. We’ll be upgrading that from 10kw to 20kw in a few weeks.
Nice! Are you charging your truck off the Power Queen batteries. I was thinking of adding some more to make this system 10kwhrs and charging our EV. We have a Chevy Bolt.
Nice built...
Go for the thicker wire. Spending a little more on thicker wire is better than burning down your house.
With prices of batteries dropping 50% this year I’m adding more wh 😊
Great system and video. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks. Ironically, I've never really used it that much, but it's there if I need it.
neat job clean looking
At 4000 w surge, the maximum draw from your battery bank will be 167A. Your 24v inverter cannot draw all the power from a 12v battery. It needs a 24v battery. If you have 2-12v batteries in series for 24v. The 167A will be shared almost equally btw the batteries. That is 83.5A from each battery. A 4awg wire is enough to connect 2-12v batteries in series if the max amp draw is 167A. 4awg pure copper can handle up to 85A.
Hi, thanks for the feedback. My battery bank is a series parallel. Two 12v (100amphr) batteries in series to get 24v. Then two of these series sets in parallel connected to the junction block. 2/0 AWG can do 175amps using THWN wire. This would be enough to handle the 167 amps being pulled through the wires connecting the battery bank to the junction block. I do have smaller wire connecting the two 12v batteries in series. I suspect the 'surge' portion of the inverter operation is so short that the smaller wire wouldn't generate sufficient heat to cause problems. I'm not sure why else they would have suggested smaller wire, unless they are just wrong in the manual. That wouldn't really surprise me.
@@joetalks.76 👍
Nice setup, try with our 12V230Ah
😄👍Good Stuff, Great Tips
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching!
Looks nice! 🎉
I'm building a system very close to this
Cool, how many kwhrs? I'm actually thinking of up sizing this to 10kwhrs and charging our electric car. It only gets driven about 30 miles a day, so we could basically drive it entirely on solar for the most part if we assume 3 miles per kwhr.
Neat set up😊
Hey, just to let you know The Wire that you got going to. Your inverter needs to be upsize. To the same size that you are going to your batteries. Because those wires oR way under size. I have tried.
The manufacturer size and found out that was a cause of the emperor shutting down.
And The wire was Getting hot.
Yeah, I am very disappointed in the guidance that is provided from the mfg. I ended up sizing the wire feeding the inverter based off the 2000w continuous power. That puts it at about 83 amps, and the 2AWG can handle 130 amps assuming THHN wire. The surge current would be about 167 amps, but is only in short spurts. I think 2AWG would handle it, but going up in size would always be a safer option. Thanks for the feedback.
@joetalks.76 The space that I had I used What they use to hook up affordable homes.
Along with 100 amp wire.
Four going between the Solar panels found out that even they we're getting hot. At 24.
Votes. The Wire that I had was what I had extra So I used it. All I was running is a refrigerator and 100 amp lights. All I was using. Where's harbor freight Solar steph
how many watts from solar panels do you need to charge that battery bank in 6 hours ?
That bank is about 5kwhrs. If you assume 100% efficiency from your solar panels (which is NEVER the case), you would need about 900w. It's hard to predict the solar panel efficiency, but if you estimate it to be around 50%, then you would need 1.8kw of solar to charge them in 6 (ish) hours. For what its worth, the solar controller I have limits the charge rate to 1kw. This original design is for 2kw of solar panels so that you might get a flatter charge curve of 1kw throughout most of the day. I hope that helps, thanks for watching.
How do i wire 4 eco worthy batteries for 24v? ,i have 50mm2 copper cable ,thanks
Maybe try this video.
ua-cam.com/video/ytEf1hJFn4I/v-deo.html
I wouldn't want to speak to the wire size without knowing the amperage of the batteries.
The red and black + and - junction boxes at the bottom of your board...where did you get those, sir? And thanks for posting your build, sir. Also, do you use battery terminal covers?
Hi. I bought them from Amazon. ASIN: B07THLX93D. As far as battery terminal covers, the batteries I bought came with some rubber terminal covers, and I just use those. I don't leave the batteries hooked up unless I have a need for the system. It isn't used on a daily basis.
@@joetalks.76thank you sir.
Those are called bus bars
Did you mention what kind of battery you using lithium .
They are lithium. Two power queens and two Chinns.
can you keep your battery bank charged using the power grid?
I've used a 12v automotive battery charger to charge them before. You just have to change the connections to put the batteries in parallel. I intentionally kept it off the grid because I don't have anything in place to prevent back charging the grid in the event of a power outage.
Does it matter pv 8awg to 6awg can i just keepnit 8awg
It really depends on the insulation rating of the wire and the breaker size. We size the wire so that the breaker amperage is at max 80% the ampacity of the wire. This is THHN wire.. The ampacity of 8 gauge THHN wire is 55 amps, and 80% of 55 is 44 amps. So I probably could have gotten away with 8 gauge between the 40 amp solar breaker and the solar charger. I generally go by the rule of when in doubt on the wire size, go bigger.
Hey, I wanted to follow up on your question. I had told you that using THHN 8 gauge wire would probably be ok, but I double checked the heat rating on that breaker, and it is only 60C, so you can't use the 90C ampacity. The 60C ampacity of 8 gauge wire is 40 amps, so you are really not getting the full protection of the breaker. You should probably use the 6 gauge. I believe the solar supply wires have a different rating due to the insulation, etc. Hope this helps, but as always, consult a professional if you need more help.
lets clear this problem of weir size's up once and for all . when charging a battery power in put is amps irrespective of or voltage bank copasetic . 12 volte siystom or Or 24 volte Siystom it is So we ues to cabal suitable of carrying amp's like them on an ark welder our battery bank will adapt nicely to this point i use a simple gild line of fore determining the size . given meny of use do not have chats & graphs to tern to. the stander ark welder of 150 amps use's tow size of weir i opt for the larger size on 12 volt battery banks often the smaller size when used as jumper cabled get to hot Go for the heaver size of cable you find then in the good quality jumper cabal packs . often orange , Then we have the heavy Ark welder such a the , oxford welder Oil fold welder that pumps out a staging 200 amps this type of melty core cable is idle for large battery banks. from 24 volt & 48 volt siystom battery banks , that require heaver amp's to charge them. [ Remember amp are the systems by witch we fill our batteries with a check valve. not unlick a water tank with a check valve , think of it filing the tank as it dose so it develops presser from the filing tank.
this presser pushing back on the incoming water & slows the fill. this batter slows the fill & more presser is added to fill. if this tacks place whit current [ presser in amps ] will heat's up the cabal & the larger cabal can except this current with out damage to the malty core cabal , But the smaller cabal Heats up to a point. Of Melting & will & often can start a fire . this is the way i use the cabling I'm going to use lower amps when charging do not over heat the cabal. Hirt amps will heat up the cabal. & keep cabals as short as you can hop this helps you ,
Hi, thanks for the feedback. I sized the wires based of the amp input/output specification of the components. One thing I found interesting is that the 8 AWG solar panel wire is rated with an ampacity of 55 amps, while normal 8 AWG is only rated for 40 amps (60 deg C).
So I'm just wondering, do you agree that I could get by with smaller wires if the inverter normally only draws about 83 amps at 2000W when not in a surge state? 2 AWG would be plenty large for that amp draw. Maybe this is how the manufacturer is justifying the smaller cable sizes in the chart. Sorry, but I am not overly familiar with welding cables you are talking about.
@@joetalks.76 You should size your cables for the maximum continuous rating of the inverter. Same with over current protection, You don't need to size for inrush/starting currents.
The research that I've done? You should never mix different size batteries and different companies. I'd like to put a UPS in my home so I bought two UPS inverters/chargers(2000w) and hooked up two batteries parallel to a 2000w inverter to back up my sub pump. My 1/2 horse sub pump comes on for 1minute and 20 seconds twice an hour. 1050w start. at 10 amps. then drops to 960w at 8.5 amps. @120 amp hour battery draw it will last 5 to 7 hours approx. Two 100AH batteries in parallel should last 10 to 15 hours or more? I have outdoor solar lights(street lights) Some nights they only last 2 hours? other nights they last 10+ hours. It has to be a sunny day to get a full charge. I'd like to go 100% off grid but I first need it to become economical.
I could see the benefits of keeping all the batteries the same brand to keep things consistent. I would think as long as the specs are the same, it wouldn't really matter. Thanks for the feedback.
👍👍Wow! It's really cool. See also:
Solar power plant mounted in multi-storey building! (for survivors in the zombie apocalypse):
Shorts version:
ua-cam.com/video/k9AiiCLALRA/v-deo.html
Full version:
ua-cam.com/video/sOskjOsl-cA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/users/shortsGuZc2KhHEs0?feature=share
High Power Mega Coil gun! - UA-cam
If you hire someone to do it. Then you won't be able to work on it when it counts. Solar isn't worth it if you can't do it yourself.
I couldn't agree more. I DIY everything I can. My recommendations to hire someone are directed to those that don't know anything about electricity as a matter of safety. Otherwise, educate yourself and do it yourself.
Great build until you got to that cheap, low surge capacity, high frequency, transformerless inverter. High frequency inverters are not much more than a toy when it comes to reliability, performance and safety. They offer the poorest surge capacity ratings and a much short life expectancy than a real inverter that uses low frequency, transformer based technology, and because they don't have an iron core, copper wound output transformer to isolate the DC boost stage from its AC output, there is always the possibility that this cheap Chinese made inverter can pass DC current to your AC appliances and set them on fire.
Well that's good to know. It isn't something I use regularly, just a backup system. Hopefully it would be enough to get us through a power outage.