The Eurorack Mixer Battle Intensifies // Pros & cons for 1010Music Bluebox Eurorack Edition
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- There are literally chapters of Eurorack tips and ideas in my In-Complete Book of Electronic Music Ideas, Tips and Tricks, on my Patreon:
► / loopop
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TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
1:15 The setup
2:45 Inst inputs
3:05 Returns
3:25 Ext Sends
4:20 Int Sends
4:40 Misc setup
6:05 Workflow
7:30 MIDI control
10:15 CV mods
11:30 USB
12:35 Mixer view
14:35 Track view
15:10 Main mode
15:30 EQ
16:45 Internal FX
19:35 Recording
21:10 Track takes
22:45 Punch in
24:10 Proj & tools
24:20 Compressor
25:25 Pros & cons
30:10 Outro
Submit review and video ideas here (sorry I don’t offer 1x1 sessions/setup/purchasing advice):
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links to stores like Amazon, Sweetwater, Thomann and others. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
More mixers is a very welcome change to the eurorack realm. And this one ticks alot of boxes. The audio interface in this one is such a great addition.
Only stereo over USB audio is a bit disappointing. When you have that many inputs, I always want the same number of outputs.
For me this is game changer in eurorack. Having a multitrack recorder in eurorack format is one of the best or maybe the best tool for finishing music. The thing that this is a mixer, fx unit, multitracker is pretty nice. What does this needs? ... Maybe an expander, more inputs are always needed. options for different panels... black and silver. Props for 1010music and to Loopop for this great presentation.
I dont think extra audio inputs is really possible, but definitely cv inputs
seconded on "game changer", as you finally have one place for all (or most of) your outs, AND you can multitrack record them. Which is useful if a track (or wet version of a dry track) gets a bit too crazy, and you can redo it individually afterwards.
Also, this is one of the rare (only?) videos where someone actually maxes out the Bluebox (modular or desktop), which is what I've always wanted to see in a Bluebox demo.
Oh crap your going to drag me back into eurorack again.... I was on a 142 step program to cure my addiction.
If they can get this sending each track over usb class compliant I’ll be all over it. That would be so powerful with the MPC One.
I would consider one of this if that happens, for sure.
That mixer is out of my menu diving nightmares.
Hence why it comes with great MIDI implementation, a nanoKontrol like he showed off, matches the 6 stereo channels perfectly, for very inexpensive
I work with these guys and they added a ton of cool.features. A great review as always. Thank you! 😃🚀💥
A little off topic but I would love to see one of your awesome informative videos on the Hermod+ 👍
I wish he'd do this too. 👍
Me 2nd
Always had issues with 1010 software interface, as a UI developer myself and musician it feels weird. Also, the sound...I wonder how it good the converters are and how its output compares to the Bitbox Micro which used to digital clip pretty fast (digital clipping is horrible). I sold it cause the interface was laggy and UI made no sense to me. The lack of USB audio streaming of all inputs is a shame for a digital mixer. Was a good idea for the (not so) entry level eurorack mixers market w/ good amount of i/o but the execution seems not satisfying for me.
I wish:
- more hands on control and simpler more fluent & optimised UI (come on 1010, there are super powerful chips today, look at gaming PC handled)
- full i/o streaming via USB
- diverse high quality FXs, give the possibility to setup a light mastering chain & to create buses both w/ glue compressor/saturator/dyn eq/mid-side eq/multiband imager
- higher headroom and less clipping at 32bit (make use of the digital goodness)
- line level balanced stereo out (perhaps via expander)
Overall 1010music always disappointed me and the company has potential but needs to execute better IMO.
thank you @loopop for making me aware of the upcoming WMD perf mixer mk2
Everything right on launch… except the thing we’ve all been waiting for…stream all tracks via usb. 😢 Still love my Bluebox, even the effects alone are stellar! Great video Loopop! 💎
Love the idea I can record multitrack in my Eurorack without using a computer. Used to use a Boss DR-800 but it was a pain to convert from it's proprietary format to wav. This looks ideal for capturing those impromptu moments of joy. As always, a great vid!
I really enjoyed hanging out with the 1010 guys at the knobcon 2023
they are giants by the way
i have been waiting for them to put something like this out for ages!
I love my desktop Bluebox - this is a game changer for recording Eurorack! WOOT! 😁👊
Awesome module, also loving hermod plus. Can't wait for this one. I love my hermod and this is just what I was hoping they would do. Lush.
Really really great tool!
I have been using desktop version for several months and it was great for use with eurorack, except 2 things: that you have to find a lot of Y-cables and there was no interface capabilities, so I changed it to ES-9.
Module version solved 1st problem and if they add abitily to send multitrack into DAW this will be game changer for eurorack.
In the eurorack mixers realm, Frap Tools CGM is a great alternative. Also Bored Brain has just announced a new mixer called Xcelon that will have some interesting features.
the bluebox writes the current tempo into the project xml, which helps enormously when you move the stems to a computer & start re-aligning them; this makes a pretty strong case, along with having accurate punch-ins based on bar/beat count, for having the bb be the master clock in any set-up. it makes sense to include it in the time-keeping anyway to get the best from its simple but effective delay, which resembles the one in the blackbox.
(if you turn the feedback right up, it becomes a sort of looper, & this is a lot of fun if you map modwheel to the feedback. map a controller to the delay time too, but leave it beat-locked. 🤘)
it does need timestamps of some sort buried in the wavs to make sense of them afterwards; there have been discussions on the forum about how 1010 handle wavs in the context of multisamples & tagging (note number, velocity) but I don't recall seeing anything about the timing information that it's possible to tag a wav with, & I know it is possible.
this wp explanation shows that the timing data could be held in even a basic wav, without getting into the extended metadata which is optional & which 1010 have already tapped into.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAV#Specification
Crazy stuff you have in this case. Would take me two lifetimes to learn to completely learn to use that.
Interesting. That Warp module looks sick though.
Oh damn... you;ve just cost me a hole wad of cash! (That's a compliment, btw!). Great review of this device. it's the Eurorack mixer i have been waiting for... wonderful!
I wish this had quad panning! It'd be the perfect quadraphonic mixer...
I asked, believe me, but now with you I think the number of people wanting this doubled!
@@loopop OMG I would jump on this in a second if it supported quad panning/recording/output!
Boredbrain Music just dropped XCELON today, coming fall 2023. It’s their voltage-controlled true stereo mixer. 6 stereo/dual mono channels, 2 stereo fx sends/returns, 28 cv inputs and a host of others.
Boredbrain mixer is legit saw it today.. and wmd mkii has some gnarly multichannel combined performance controls
7 months of waiting and i finally got my bitbox micro. now the mixer comes out and i'll probably have to waitlist for that too.
such beautiful gear
If they fix just one of your cons around DAW integration (either sending those many clips as full length stems, or recording each track individually over USB) this seems like a no brainer. The per track compression would also be nice, but the DAW issues will be the main thing keeping me from buying one for now.
this is actually so insane for the price
No Multitrack output? what a shame. that would be great to send separate tracks to DAW for post Process!
True!
I was eying the noise engineering mixer but I'm liking this one better.
A mixer is really one of those things that needs to be external, just as important as a keyboard controller. I recommend the Zoom mixers, you can record directly to the mixer and use the onboard effects, having all the knobs and sliders in front of you can never be compared to fiddling around with a touchscreen.
beautiful outrooooo
Hermod plus with this, would be killer.
Not a day later Boredbrain announces their own massive in depth Eurorack mixer, lmao. The mixer competition is heating up for real this year
It's just so giant and expensive 😩 I love me a tiny mixer
Can't say enough nice things about the 1010 Bluebox. I've had the desktop edition for over a year and recently sold my Tascam M12 in favor of using the 1010 as my primary mixer. With some thoughtful midi mapping, it is extremely versatile and obviously very portable for live sets. Based on this walkthrough this eurorack edition adds connectivity for CV and the new USB-C input but it is largely exactly the same as the version I have. This is a *good* thing. My only ask, which is definitely looking a gift horse in the mouth, would be the ability to timestretch the recordings by tempo...
I've been thinking about the Tascam, you don't think it's worth it?
@@dylantreisman621The analogue version Model 24 is absolutely worth it but not very portable. Very flexible routing, and a nice overdrive character when you crank the inputs. It also handles straight euro output signals too.
@@dylantreisman621The Tascam is great. It has some very cool features and sounds quite clean. The point I was making is that I came to appreciate that having both the 1010 and the M12 didn't make sense. They do almost all the same things and I wasn't losing much besides knobs if I consolidated.
(Note - a controller would have been obvious here but then I realized my Digitakt had some spare midi channels... Yeah... IYKYK... :) )
Anyway, I chose the 1010 because I use it both in studio to write and live to mix and record. Also it actually offers 12 channels of input. The M12 can record 10 channels in with 11/12 being the master tracks.
Not having an analogue clock input on a eurorack module is a classic 1010music move. I wouldn't hold my breath on them ever adding it either
I assume the reason is due to the module needing 24ppqn for recording in a higher time resolution. Based off what was mentioned in the video, there are basic arrangement features for punching in and xml files for bringing the recordings in a daw. That midi clock is probably the format that allows a bridge to your daw. I’m just guessing tho.
I have the original Blue Box , and all it’s missing is A/B loop 🔁 play back. I honestly thought they would have a update.
About analog vs digital mixer in eurorack: I know quite a few euorack artists that use the analog capabilities of feedback and oversaturation into a kinda overdrive as tool for their sounds. Not sure if the bluebox could do that.
But as an end of chain for people that only want eurorack its pretty nifty device.
I’ve got the desktop Bluebox going through an Oto Boum to get that oversaturated analog vibe. Works really well live.
The original Bluebox is a nice device and this new version seems to be a nice addition. However, what I really dislike is that it is currently not possible to quickly switch between the main mix (with compressor and effects) and the cue tracks (pfl) on the phone, you have to go into the menu every time. Also a simple three-band EQ or filter per channel would be very cool for DJs and other experiments. But I still love my bluebox and use it often.
Excellent video ! But I am really in doubt about these 90 degrees cables. For example to cable more things on the OCPX...
Thanks! I'm sold, but you don't need to go all in, you can mix and match
Oscilloscope would be so sick
I still like the Befaco mixing system
@loopop is there an option for CV control assign to panning the channels? Can you assign the 6 cv ins to 6 pairs of panning stereo signals or 12 mono inputs? Great video! Multitrack recording option is the gamechanger.
I've not tried it but mapping to pan should work just fine. However, currently you can only map each CV jack to only one destination, so it's panning a combination of UP TO 6 stereo or 6 mono tracks (or any combinatoin, like 3 and 3), but not a combination of 7 or more, certainly not 12 mono tracks
The Befaco Hexmix + Hexpander modules are an option too.
Fun little things!! So, you can clock sync the tempo from say a Drumbrute 3.5mm clock out, right?
This is a very attractive proposition, and priced reasonably. Is it also available with its own enclosure (similar to euroburo enclosure)?
Not that I know of
I have the Keith McMillan K-Mix which I absolutely love, but I have slightly fried it with a bad power input, and they have discontinued it. Thought many times about getting the Bluebox but I’m still not sure if I love the touch screen interface
@@synthcat7019 yea but I’ve been told by them it’s discontinued. It’s not available on their site either
Befaco Hexmix Mixer and Hexpander is really good but I dont like the volume knobs. I have an desktop bluebox I love it but I dont like the knob for function like the analog mixers have. But I love the record feature! I may return my Hexmix because how much HP it uses for both units.
Hi Loopop! I would love to know if you heard of the possibility to cascade two or even more blueboxes as I challenge myself to coordinate 18 x stereo tracks in modular.
I have not heard of a feature that does that. You can of course consolidate mixes manually from one bluebox to the next
I have a buddy who needs: A good mixer, some basic rev/del effects AND a compressor AND he brings an audio interface with him too. Yes this device isn't inexpensive, but holy hell can it replace a lot of devices in one fell swoop if you go for it...! (hej Anders)
One more question... How do you connect to an external PA like at a concert venue? Would that require using 2 of the outputs to send a stereo signal?
yes or use another output module and send the stereo signal to it
Is it possible to map the transporter buttons on the Korg nanokontrol studio ? The midi learn doesn’t let you select the transporter play , stop , rev
Ok. This is cool. I’m using the desktop version and couldn’t imagine using anything else until now. But the big question for me is about the power supply - the desktop version is…quirky/sometimes noisy…does using the Eurorack power supply fix this?
This question is Interesting for me as well. As I’ve managed almost all cases at home to make the sound clear and noiseless, desktop bluebox is always surprising me I negative way in different venues. And as we know we cannot usually except from those places proper and clean power sockets. There is always something in the chain that generate huge noise. So at the moment bluebox servers me only at home :/
I didn’t have any noise issues in this case, and it has basic meanwell power so nothing fancy
@@loopop in my case it’s a huge issue, at least in a venue where I’m preparing myself right now . But the whole setup is quite complex as I have multiple devices in addition to modular and my two friends use mics for real instruments. So my only solution was to replace bluebox with A&H studio mixer. Nevertheless thank you for your answer and of course for the product demo. Your reviews are excellent and helped me few times already to pick right gear. All best :)
@@abesvl thanks! If you happen to recall I did mention the noise issues in my review of the original desktop bluebox, so I was particularly on the lookout this time, and couldn’t find any noticeable ones (of course if you crank up gain you will hear the converters)
@@loopop yeah, that’s what I wanted hear. I went with the desktop even after that review - there’s so many things I love about it - but not needing the work arounds and in my case to boot 🥾 I’m in with this version!!!
What compressor settings are you using to do parallel compression? I have the desktop and once you start moving away from 100% wet a lot of phasing occurs? I wonder if there's an update to the comp in this format?
I doubt there's an update because the firmware seems very similar in all other respects, but I don't know for sure. Personally I don't use the compressor, I'd rather have the flexibility to do that on my computer later, so I haven't explored it much.
@loopop will you be reviewing the Woovebox?
Not likely
I didn't know there was an FXaid pro either!
I'm curious what specs are your power supply on the +5V rail since the bluebox seem to peak at 850mA and it's not extremely common. Wondering if not using the internal FX i could get away with using a 500mA one...
My case has the Meanwell RT65B
thank you @@loopop
Can this load stems recorded in a DAW, and be triggered by CV?
do you will do the hermod+ videos soon?
I'm not sure I'll have time for it
sad but i understand @@loopop
Regardless of the review, that's an amazing super power case layout. I am not sure if you can bring it all together with the competition mixers. Not like this.
Anyone know what bitrate/sample rate this records at?
Hi!! Do you have a review of ornament and crime' hemisphere ? Regards!!
No none such yet
@loopop could you mult a kick trigger into a cv inverter to the cv in routed to the channels level to make a sidechain/ ducking effect?
a trigger wouldn't be enough, you'd need to shape it in to an inverted envelope at exactly the right levels for the effect you want. hopefully they'll add offsets and attenuversion to make that easier (or just sidechain!)
@@loopop God I really hope they just add a ducking/sidechain option, I feel like it would be so easy
@@loopop I have a wmd mscl compressor so I could put it on a send to all the channels, correct?
@@justinurra3349sure
Having it set up with 12 mono ins is how they should have done the original version. Its such a hassle to use all these splitters, making this otherwise small & portable unit into an unwieldy tangle of cables & adapters thats no longer so nimble.
Does it still count as a DAWless jam if you use this in your case? asking for a friend.
as long as you make sure to avoid the punch in feature, yes
I hope 1010 music do updates on the bluebox but there’s a few things they have to fix:
midi slider curves to use log instead of linear mapping, it’s unusable in the current state and had been reported since the launch.
putting back the old complete reverb settings, it’s the only hardware I own that I’ve seen features removed with updates
clicks when you change the EQ curves via midi
Is the Bluebox desktop an audio interface as well? Last time O checked it didn't do that
Not currently
@@loopop Thanks for responding!
What is a "paramount plus sequencer" mentioned at 01:25 ?
Hermod Plus
Is there a CV destination for Record? Or you have to manually press record?
I think not, but ask the company to make sure and let us know back here if you have a moment!
@@loopopwill do
Can you sync record to the sequencer (automatically) somehow?
As far as I saw there was no trigger mapping for that, but with tempo sync and MIDI clock it could work with the punch in function, I've not tried it though
If they can add multitrack over usb this will replace my model 12
Can you not tempo sync the internal effects from your main clock (eg Pam's)?
not currently over CV, only MIDI (I didn't try it, but it should work). Hopefully they'll add clock sync using the CV inputs, but there's no confirmation for that at this time
@@loopop that works, the Pam's expander has a TRS midi clock output. Thanks!
my delay effect doesn’t response at all. no problems with recerb. any idea why??
Please email support - I’m sure they have an organized checklist - if reverb works delay should be fine
Noise gate would be good
Agree couldn't hurt - overall in this case I wouldn't have used it - none of the modules were particularly noisy
5:06 Surely TRS-A has won and needs to be adopted by everyone?
yes it does, but it isn't unfortunately
With all these modules patched into it, how bad is the noise floor ?
Embrace the noise.
you're hearing it unprocessed with all 12 inputs live - it's more about the signal to noise ratio of the modules than bluebox's
@@zackcolbourne6921 I been embracing the noise for 35 years, there is good noise and bad noise, and that depends on what you doing. Cheers!
@@loopop What I meant was what is the signal to noise ratio of the actual Blue Box, example I love the Mimeophon, but the noise floor on that module is unbearable, I know this unit is all digital, but one needs to know all the strong and weak modules in their chain. Thank you.
power requirements kind of a dealbreaker on this thing.
1010 always seem to make affordable nice boxes, in both formats which is great.
Isn't this module $700? You and I have a different definition of affordable 😅
@@vertigev well you have 22 subs and no content, so I guess what my opinion on things are, differs entirely than what yours is.
@@dankeplace not sure what you are trying to say there.
@@vertigev ofc you don't because you lack substance.
Worth mentioning Xer Mixa too with the Expander, but also new Xaoc mixer, like Ostrwa, especially if you chain two and add an expander. There is Befaco too. WMD as you mentioned. All these are mixers in the rack, and focus more on classic level control, manual and cv, sends and aux channels. Now, BLuebox is a different thing, I think it is worth having smt like this simply to record everything you noodle with and dont loose patches. God knows many people never finish a track while jamming on modular, and recording everything without computer and audio interface is a huge deal. The only issue with good mixers in the box is the price, Xer Mixa is about a grand with expander. 2x Ostrawa and expander, same deal.
I did, in the intro and pros and cons
Long time WMD PM user and abuser…
This is temping. No need to split stuff up to EQ our low end on some stuff and the multi tracking is ridiculous
I may have to try thjs out
aaaand we get yet another bad-sounding compressor in Eurorack... but other than that, this is pretty cool over all... i'm evaluating.... :)
Wait. There's a WMD-PM Mk2??!!?? That thing looks amazing!!
I thought WMD went under?
They are back!!@@spacetoilet
Can we get a confirmation that the parametric EQ's can indeed be modulated?
First. Shocking.
it's the other way around: iPhone only does 48 kHz and not 44,1 kHz
How sure are you? Got a source? (I don't) Because this works at 48, I tried an iPad and it worked, and an iPhone and it didn't
Probably a few hundred euros more expensive the the non eurorack version.
Quite exactly one hundred euros over the desktop version. The latter, however, lacks quite a few features: it does not include an audio interface, it is not controllable via CV… etc. Put the inflation of the last years on top and you'll find the price quite reasonable.
The desktop (or should I say, 'pocket') bluebox is still a very useful mixer/standalone multitrack recording "studio". As opposite to you, I happen to own one, so I dare to know what I'm talking about. 🙂
If there was a upgrade path standalone>eurorack, be it by trade in or as DIY, I'd go for it.
For those who just howl out of personal non-affordability, empfehle ich Arbeitsamt.
@@aljen9611 the thing is just that every device that is also available as eurorack module, is usually quite a bit more expensive. Which is a shame, because I would have liked some of my pedals and other devices as eurorack modules.
Fantastic module, but NEEDS Black and Silver faceplates. The blue is a deal breaker. That would drive my OCD crazy.
As a Blackbox owner and software engineer, I'm not convinced.
It took them a long time to get the Blackbox mostly stable and even now the UI isn't great imo. A lot of the issues I've encountered over the years shouldn't happen in a production environment. Almost everything they do feels rushed and they never quite seem to fully flesh out their products.
On paper it all looks amazing, but in practice it kinda falls flat.
From a business perspective I understand that they have to keep selling stuff, but if that means that those things are poorly designed/buggy/rushed, I'm not interested.
They do listen to the community, but it's a small team managing lots of products, so there's only so much they can do.
So, I might reconsider in a few years, but for now I'm not convinced.
TRS B in 2023 seems irresponsible, even if they're trying to be consistent
Eurorack is over