Killing vegans a joke too far? - BBC
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2018
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Watch the BBC first on iPlayer 👉 bbc.in/iPlayer-Home In the news this week: why was Waitrose magazine editor, William Sitwell, fired for making a joke about vegans?
Team captains Paul Merton and Ian Hislop are joined by guest host Victoria Coren Mitchell and panellists Janey Godley and Robert Rinder.
Have I Got News For You | Series 56 Episode 5 | BBC
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“Or, as I call them, not vegan.”
Brilliant.
Topped off with, "Just send them some spam."
I've said it once and I'll say it again. David Mitchell is an incredibly lucky man.
Good insight. That hardly ever gets mentioned under UA-cam videos starring Victoria. Hardly ever.
Punching way above his weight there.
@@MisterItchy I think she might be lighter :P
@@20shourya That was an idiom It means she's out of his league. That's another idiom ... it means she's too good for him.
@@MisterItchy and that was a joke that went right over your head :)
“Flexitarian” - people who eat what they want.
So that’s pretty much all 7 billion of us then.
What a redundant word.
Its a word used by idiots to make them feel righteous and more virtuous amongst their peers. Another ridiculous buzzword that needs to be ridiculed.
Omnivore. The word exists.
Yes, the word omnivore exists.
Doesn't mean the same thing as flexitarian though does it.
Flexitarian often refers to where you eat for example a vegetarian diet but if someone buys or gives you food you would be flexible. It's like being vegetarian, but without the offence.
@@JellyMotion Most people eat what they want when they make it and eat what is served if being guests. No need for a new word.
I don't like the idea of joking about killing vegans just for laughs. If you're going to joke about killing vegans, it should be for food.
Now, you may think that eating vegans is a tasteless thing to do, but with the right spices...
Having a hard time typing this as I'm still giggling. That is some FUNNY stuff you got there. Hilarious!!
I actually snorted reading this. Thank you.
I think we would be delicious, like grass fed cattle. Or acorn fed pigs. Not to mention, lots of vegans favor organic produce and use organic personal hygiene products so you could also argue we were organically farmed.
Would you rather have your pet put down by a vet, or taken to a slaughterhouse so you can eat it?
@@cornsockgabz We don't eat pets.
“And then it went on Twitter, that’s when things got mad”
No one has a right to go through life unoffended
It's not about being offended, it's about saying something so wrecklessly violent. It's not appropriate. If I said to you, in reply to an enquiry, "how about I give you some personal attention and come over and slit your throat", that's not funny, that's an expression of violence. Saying "it was only a joke" doesn't make it one.
yeah when you grow up youll understand
@@aliservan7188 The Waitrose magazine writer was just trying to inject a bit of humour - he didn't threaten to kill the person in question. What has happened to people?? The English-speaking world will be bereft of good comedy, as most of it requires some level of offence. We'll be left with the awful attempts at humour by guys like the one who attacked the Simpsons for their portrayal of Apu. I've seen his (and other PC comedians) attempts at comedy, and it usually gets little more than polite chortle, presumably because the audience feel bad for him.
ali Servan ngl that made me laugh
@ Senan Have you ever heard a vegan say otherwise?
Oh just lettuce be vegans
Now THAT'S a joke!
Noface121 that’s not a joke that’s a pun get it right next time
That spam joke is what made me like this video.
is spam anything other than just repetitive messages? If not, it seems barely a joke to me
@@AliceP. spam is a kind of tinned pork, so actually it is quite funny.
No one can take a joke anywhere on the planet.
FortnightAddict no, it not very funny. But it seems the argument presented has gone amiss. You see, “[joking] about killing a whole group of people” as you put it, is still joking no matter how funny it is. Offence and Humour are subjective in relation to the listener. Make a joke about 9/11 to the victims of that fateful day, you get slated, do the same here in England, some people laugh. Just because you personally didn’t like the joke, doesn’t mean nobody did. It does not actually insight any hatred if the context is taken into consideration. The day we punish comedians, albeit terrible ones, for making a *joke* is the day we become oppressive. This has become, yet again, another example of why freedom of speech should be a human right in the UK; this man lost his job, and all career prospects for the foreseeable future, haven’t you any remorse? All for telling a stupid joke, that would’ve caused literally zero damage to anyone had they not overreacted. Isn’t the fact we can be detained, punished, and beaten because some people were offended the real crime here?
@@subscriberswithnovideos-eg9kq I personally really laughed at it, it's more the absurdity of than the actual thing itself, wish people could try and think logically for once, instead of being so incredibly stupid and downright snowflakes about it.
@@subscriberswithnovideos-eg9kq He was rude to a member of the public while working at his job. If I was working at my job and suggested a customer kill themselves I would be sacked (regardless of if I was 'joking' or not), so why is this any different?
@FortnightAddict I found it funny it's a joke wasn't literal, the guy who said that doesn't own Waitrose. Its yeh I cooked these alternatives in my kitchen, Waitrose should sell them, food is a lil more complicated than that
I happen to be a citizen of the planet and I find your comment highly highly offensive to Earthlings.
"Is it a dolphin in a bathtub?"
'Such nice spectacles on Victoria, aren't they?''Wait. What? She's wearing glasses?'
if I could be picked off so easy by a magazine editor I don't think I'd still be here
""We hope this sets a precedent that it's not acceptable to mock a group of people because of their lifestyle choices"'does that apply when Vegans mock and complain about a meat eaters life style choice? I wonder
I knew that people would immediately make that connection which is one of the reasons why I disagreed with The Vegan Society’s statement. Anyone can be criticised for anything. I can be criticised for being a vegan (I don’t know how but people would probably find something) and carnists can be rightfully criticised for contributing to unimaginable animal cruelty whilst claiming to be “animal lovers”. Another reason I disagree with their statement is that people can make jokes, it’s part of freedom of speech. I’m a vehement vegan but I won’t for one second advocate for a man to lose his job for a joke or even if he was serious. If he applied his mass murder mentality of non-human animals to vegans, I still wouldn’t advocate for him to lose his job because it’s freedom of speech.
I am a vegan and fine this really funny!
Especially with Janey and Judge Rinder
I don’t find the premise of the story funny though that a man had to resign over a stupid joke he thought was funny but wasn’t
I have a series idea for you
Because that’s how you market to a demographic. ‘Hi paying customers. I wish you were dead. No profits for us’
Its a good clip but in away funny that they are sharing this on a platform where I can also view entire episode.
Has anyone made the point that his joke was just shit?
Not in an offended way, I mean literally that just wasn't funny?
It wasn't relevant to what the person sent to him, or witty, or clever, it was just a bitchy remark not a "joke".
Just because something is said without 100% seriousness doesn't make it *humour*
Am I the only one who sees that?
Nope, you got one like (and it wasn't me).
I am a vegan I think the whole thing was ridiculous, he made a private joke which got publicised for which he paid a ridiculous price! He championed plant based food and refused to have `meat' adverts in their special plant based edition. Some vegans give the rest of us a bad name!
I am also vegan, and I agreed with you until realising it was not private, and was an external writer. I love making dark jokes but if I did that while representing my company I'd be fired. I'm sad that people are blaming vegans for this when it didn't actually offend any of us, it's just someone making a mistake and facing repercussions for it. xD
@@JellyMotion
But he got fired NOT because he wrote it but because the vegan receiver got offended (ie couldn't take the joke) and then re-posted online and complained to management, both of which actions caused his sacking due to company fear of a social media blitz against their company. So the backlash against the vegans is primarily about their unhumourous self righteousness in reacting.
@@thedolphin5428 He got fired because he made an inappropriate joke to a journalist and that journalist posted it online, because that's what journalists do. He was an idiot, it's got nothing to do with vegans.
@@JellyMotion
Not true. The journo WAS A VEGAN. She even replied "in a light hearted way" back to him, but got no subsequent reply. Only THEN did she post online out of anger. So, had the journalist not got ansty and political, the whole thing would not have blown up.
Final outcomes of all things in life are multi-stage, multi-factorial. At each stage, INTENTION and WILFUL CHOICE can and will modify the eventual outcome. So the cause of outcomes is not always at the beginning of the chain of events. If the writer intended a joke, and chose to send it in good faith, and the VEGAN JOURNO receiver knew that but then still acted maliciously (everyone knows that twitter shaming has disastrous effects for non-PC behaviours) then the true cause of his firing was the uploading of it, the intention to shame for ideological reasons. So the cause of the firing was not the joke but the motive behind the upload revenge. THAT IS WHY SO people hate vegans. Their self righteous, unhumourous, virtue signalling posturing.
PS. I'm a vegetarian for 35 years and I've never met a lacto-vegetarian as fascistic as the ideologue vegans I've met.
@@thedolphin5428 Yes we know she was vegan, hence the topic. He got fired because of he made an idiotic joke to an external writer which resulted in a shit show. I can only say the same thing so many times.
Nobody appreciated the "give birth to a vegan week" joke
I know, I thought that was the best bit of the whole video.
Especially as there is no such thing as a vegan baby...they all drink milk.
A joke is a joke, it's not something to be taken seriously which nearly 99% of people in the world forget is the whole point of a joke.
No, sorry, but 99% of people do remember the point of a joke is something you don’t take seriously. It’s just an extremely loud, extremely aggressive and extremely bitter 1% with a chip on their shoulder that kick up an unbelievable fuss and demand resignations, and for some reason are pandered too and given what they want. I guess no one else has thought of a joke in their head, thought it was funny any said if and realised it went down like a lead balloon
And nobody mentions the Draconian punishment for making a stupid and thoughtless joke. Dock his pay? Demote him? No, just sack him. Whenever someone does something stupid the cry goes up to sack them. So we never have people in a job who once made a mistake, learned from it and will be more careful in future.
Forgiveness, turning the other cheek? Not anymore… We live in the post-redemption world now.
I think you'll find most businesses are reasonable and understand that these mistakes are one offs. When people get fired because of the internet they tend to have been asking for it before any online controversy and the boss is just taking the opportunity.
@@kakapofan6542 That may be true of rank and file jobs but if there's any form of publicity involved it's "Sack them! Now!"
Very often we hear of people who have exemplary work records losing their jobs over stupid errors of judgement.
If I replied to an external writer in such a manner about anything I would lose my job. What do vegans have to do with it? XD
Because they tend to be offended with any criticism which obviously fuelled Mr Sitwell being fired. Was a silly thing to say but punishment was far too harsh for a tongue in cheek joke , the vegan agenda is more than likely pushed on to him on a daily basis and could get a bit tedious to constantly hear so makes light of it .
@@JD-sp3wn I disagree, I don't think that was what got him fired. If I made a joke like that to an external writer, which was clearly at their expense, I would be fired, it's as simple as that. He's in a position of responsibility, he should know better. He should do what the rest of us do and make jokes behind closed doors, why he felt the need to do that I have no idea.
So then we go then the road of having no jokes about anything serious or not serious, basically snowflakes... I personally think it was misguided what he said but no it is not enough to lose a job over, and I do believe due to vegans over passionate views and general self righteousness, he didn't stand a chance . The lady he aimed it as also has tweets slamming meat eaters , by your logic she is unemployable as she has incited some form of hate against them ?
@@JD-sp3wn Ah but you see you have illustrated my point entirely, by all means joke away! It's the forum you do so in that's the issue here. Tweet and joke, no problem, make unprofessional comments in emails, problem. Some might argue that tweeting can get you fired, and they'd be right but I don't agree with that if it's from their own personal account.
On the same token ... The lady who he said it to tweeted her joy at 7 people dying on a bull run in Spain, not even in a joking context ... Should she be denied any tweet or column space? Should she lose her job ? At least his comment was on a joke platform and he had no malice . The lady who made it public has double standards and gets away with it due to 'passionate views' that is absurd in my eyes
i remember being tempted to complain to waitrose that their vegetarian Haggises were unnecessarily cruel - as it is bad enough that haggises are farmed in enclosed spaces - but worse to unnaturally restrict their diet so that they cannot eat squirrels and wood-pigeons which is what they would do in the wild..
Worse than that, the vegan alternatives aren't free range! tut tut.
I'm a Scottish vegan and I approve this message.
There are people who do things for the right reasons, and there are others who jump on the fad and give it a bad name. Though I can see why vegans would be frustrated by the lack of empathy shown by the human race. It’s not really a live and let live debate when one side involves torturing/harming other sentient beings. Freedom to do what you want is only applicable when you’re not impeding on someone else’s freedom or right to live.
Vegans are actually the one group I trust. They’re not fighting for their own rights, but for the rights of others. They’re sacrificing their convenient lifestyles for the betterment of their health, Mother Earth and animals. It’s thankless, and I believe we’ll look back at the horrors of today the way we look back at slavery and genocide, and go “what the fuck were they thinking”
Having said all that, I believe in the freedom of speech and that jokes must be protected in this ridiculous PC culture.
@@mindfuldrone Veganism is happening slowly, bit by bit. As the demand for animals fall so will the forced production of them. The world won't go vegan over night.
As far as making domestic animal extinct, that is a better option than massive loss of habitat causing the mass extinction of native species that animal agriculture is responsible for. If non-vegans are so worried about there not being any enslaved cows around they can keep some as pets. Its like saying " if we don't keep slaves, there wont be any slaves left"......
You just may be right down the road......
Well said my good man.
What I think Mindful Drone was on about is the fact that (excluding cows) we only use chickens, pigs, sheep, and other forms of livestock to primarily allow us to easily maintain a balanced diet and sell the products made, to other people for the reason aforementioned above or maybe for clothing materials. The immediate or slow increase of Vegetarians and Vegans would mean that the lives of these animals in many farmers and companies would become (sickeningly) redundant. They will be killed mostly in the same awful way it is done nowadays only the animals will most likely not be allowed to breed beforehand thus declining the population anyway. The point he was trying to make is; we are in a catch 22. If either life-style was embraced fully, animals would still suffer. And you know what, that’s terrible, it really fuckin sucks, but at least the meat eating way, some benefit comes out of it. If only for us. Vegans and Vegetarians will never convince big corporations to anything as it will cost them too much. What should be done instead is not only refusing to eat animal or animal-based products, but maybe just argue for better treatment of the animals, for instance not shoving every anti-biotic known to man in their food, or allowing them to reach maturity first, etc... I am, quite obviously, not Vegan or Vegetarian, however that being said, there is common ground that we *can* both stand on.
@@subscriberswithnovideos-eg9kq I know what he was saying but my point is still valid. The slow decline in animal agriculture will result in farmers finding other revenue streams. There is no good that comes from the unnecessary killing animals. If I were doing it to dogs there would be outcry. What is it about cows pigs and chickens that makes us think it's ok to kill them?
Treating an animal well doesn't justify slitting it's throat, is it better to kill a happy dog compared to a sad dog?
Btw I eat meat and dairy for 33 years and argued your point if view, then I found the science saw the environmental damage with my own eyes and saw the horrific truth of animal agriculture. I don't hate meat eaters as I was one, but I can't abide it when people try to justify the unnecessary killing of animals.
Being in a catch 22 shouldn't mean we except futility and carry on as we are.
She’s beautiful
Mmm, even better with the glasses.
I will rejoice when Twitter and it’s ilk are no more.
Who is the scottish lass? Shes funny
Jane Godley
I LOVE ALL THE PANELLISTS LMAO
when i first started learning english, i thought "vegan" is a word for someone in a vegetative state. i can't believe how right i was.
A vegetative state is when a person is awake but is showing no signs of awareness dude.
You _are_ aware that animal agriculture is cruel and unnecessary, but you're denying that awareness in order to continue with your habits and lifestyle which encourage and finance animal cruelty, even moreso given the fact most of the soya crop grown is actually fed to rear the animals you choose to eat, meaning cows eat more soya than humans.
So, you're responsible for that too. Now you're aware what are you going to do about it?
@@cornsockgabz do you live somewhere? did you know wherever you live, it was animal habitat before human settlement? so are you demolishing your house and returning the habitat to animals?
do you go places? did you know we on average kill 1 small bug like ants every 120 steps when walking outside? so are you planning to not move at all or are you gonna keeping murdering them bugs?
do you go on the internet and write stupid comments? did you know we destroy the environment to mine minerals and oil to produce the device you are browsing the internet on and the electricity it runs on? so are you ditching modern human life in its entirety or are you gonna keep being a hypocrite vegetable on the webs?
@@Ballacha too many stupid questions to answer there Stan, heres what you need to know before you strawman the next vegan you think you can prove is a hypocrite.
Veganism is the choice to abstain/boycott as much as is practically possible any products which involve the exploitation of animals.
All of what you mention is incidental, yet you actually kill more bugs and animals through crop farming as most of those crops go to feed the animals you pay people to torture and kill.
Yet again, another carnist making an appeal to futility argument. You’re very unoriginal, and I’m sorry Eminem hasn’t returned your homoerotic affections 🤣
@@cornsockgabz "Veganism is the choice to abstain/boycott as much as is practically possible any products which involve the exploitation of animals." yikes lol. you basically confirmed you only give a shit about animals when that choice doesn't inconvenience you. and yet your smooth brain goes on about how you are not a hypocrite. lmao. the lack of vitamin b12 and creatine in your diet has truly done a number on your brain function. unless your were born special in which case your parents are at fault for not terminating you early. either way, the sooner you realise you are a waste of carbon atoms the batter. think about the animals. think about the plants. think about how much more useful you will be if you turn to their fertiliser.
@@Ballacha You seem angry dude, I'm not the problem here.
Was it a dolphin in a bathtub?
also to the guy who asked about Spock being Vegan he actuall was all Vulcans were actually vegan their entire culture was against eating any living animal with a brain.
Is it a dolphin in a bathtub
I was trying to listen but that outfit my god Vicky is gorgeous
Mark, she's definitely the one
Kinda sad that we can't joke about LGBT, religion, or race, but we're still allowed to ostracise vegans for sport.
Killer Vegan Week 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What's with the hate towards vegans though
obnoxious dicks
@@jackcloud4728 How many vegans do you know? Most of them are just regular people and a tiny vocal minority are obnoxious. Don't you think it's a bit more obnoxious to label a whole group of people as obnoxious based on a few comments you saw from Tumblr?
It's the other way around - what's with their hatred of being made fun of?
@@gazzaclarkson2547 Well I don't think many groups of people would appreciate a joke about killing them off one by one. I don't care, but it just seems a bit dickish.
Alex no I’ve known personally maybe 6 and met several more plus the seeing social media posts etc. Yeah and yeah they may have been my mates but as soon as food came up they were obnoxious.
There is no such thing as a 'joke too far'. Humour is subjective. If you dont find something funny and instead find it offensive, there is a good chance somebody else somewhere did find the joke funny. Why should your feelings supersede others free speech?
@@shogun2215 Right first of all, im talking about something that was clearly intended as a joke. In other words it should be absolutely 100% obvious before the thing is even said that it is intended as a joke. If this is the case, there is simply nothing else to be discussed. Jail? wtf are you talking about? Nobody should go to jail for saying anything. 'Hate speech' laws are total bollocks anyway. Who defines the terms 'hate'? Whats hateful to one person, may be a totally reasonable point to another. It is entirely subjective. The term 'hate' is so vague that hate speech laws can be used to simply punish speech that others dont like. Its undemocratic and entirely political, not to mention deeply illiberal. Also, I personally would argue that there really is no such thing as 'hate speech'. It is a made up term used by the far left to shut down people they disagree with. If somebody says something that is racist, then it is racist speech. If somebody says something that is misogynistic, then it is misogynistic speech. If somebody says something homophobic, then it is homophobic speech. These terms are precise and extremely specific. However, the extremely vague and thus far undefined term 'hate speech' is dangerous, imprecise, and entirely subjective.
Totally agree m8! A joke is a joke and as long as there is no malice behind it it is is a joke and thats it laugh or dont laugh your choice!
Replace "vegans" with "Jews" and tell me all about it.
@FortnightAddict Replace Vegans with Child rapists. We should be encouraging them into our community with open arms. Making jokes about killing them/ castrating them should be banned
But he was replying to her in a work capacity where you are expected to be professional! It's not that joking should be banned for risk of offending, it's just that in a work situation you have to show some tact and restraint.
Many commenters here are reacting to this clip only. The facts are more complicated, if you read full news reports of the emails. Google the full story and you'll discover the political motivations behind the Twitter shaming of the email writer man PLUS the full context of his words. The "killing" phrase was a small part of his commentary to the sender, AND the vegan journo even responded in a light hearted way after receiving it. So, there's more background to the story than HIGNFY explains here to justify the charge of humourless snowflakes.
Wait, the WEEK of international vegan DAY?
Spencer McCoach So, I didn’t hear that incorrectly...
Baconisafruit Nope, seems they just have to be extra in everything.
@@happywaterstudios6526 I can actually imagine David Mitchell saying exactly what you wrote in your original post (in his nasal tone), taking great spousal glee pointing it out to Victoria.
It's pretty obvious what is meant. It's the week which international vegan day falls on. "seems they just have to be extra in everything" stop being a wet flannel.
The week in which International Vegan Day lies, I guess.
How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your meat?
Awesome Pink Floyd reference!
It's like talking to The Wall ;-)
No Grow Up
It's a TV show
Spock is a vegetarian as well as a Vulcan.
Paul Merton? I left England 10 years ago and the setup on this show is still the same?
Yep this show is as bland and unfunny now as it was ten years ago.
I would never kill a Vegan, unless I had the right sauce.
Never upset money
Jokes are either funny...or not funny. That joke happened to be not funny but he must be allowed to say whatever he likes. Then if he upsets people, loses friends etc he should change his behaviour....isn't that how we learn? We are not born complete.
They’re not angry they’re just malnourished
Twitter is awful..I agree entirely
Were vegans really offended? Or was it just a few uptight vocal vegans on Twitter who probably don't represent everyone? The real twat in this picture is not the guy who made the joke - it's the guy who put it on Twatter and cost the poor fella his job.
No one was offended, offense isn't the issue. He responded in an immature and unprofessional manner to an external client, that gets you fired, end of.
@FortnightAddict You're right of course, it was stupid and you're also right to say it's not okay for him to get away with it - I'm not sure here though that the level of punishment fits the crime! If his comment was going on Twitter, he would most likely not have said this. Let's be honest, we've all said things that if someone put them on Twitter, we'd be in trouble! The stupid mistake here was for the guy to mistakenly imagine he could make such a joke without upsetting the guy he wrote to AND to do it at work. I absolutely get what you're saying that he was STUPID, it's just that it seems a bit over the top these days that people lose their job over something stupid and flippant - a bad joke about vegans. Vegans are not holocaust victims and we're not seriously inciting violence against them! Yes get in trouble, yes pay some kind of penanace but lose your job? Like the comedienne said, it's ironic that the vegans were 'baying for blood'. I'd rather we had the chance for more positive solutions, like giving the guy the chance to make a donation to the Vegan Society or even go vegan for a year. It's just the extremity and negativity of the reactions these days. I honestly don't think meat eaters would give a crap if a vegan made the same joke. It might mildly irritate me but not enough to react so extremely.
FortnightAddict I can relate to this, the truth hurts and people get mad
@FortnightAddict I mean you just have to watch this video to see an example of this xD
@FortnightAddict Well yeah, I'm sure some meat-eaters are triggered ha! And sometimes that will be because they just don't want to hear any 'unfortunate' facts about what they're eating. I wouldn't say the 'whole' reason is guilt though - sometimes it will be but I think we're all triggered if people present something in a patronising or angry way. Timing too, if you're just sitting in a cafe minding your own business eating a bacon buttie when someone decides to vomit an opinion at you (whether that's about food, politics or God!). But it is possible to have a healthy chat about this stuff at the right place and time. I mean, look at you and me having a decent discussion on UA-cam without name-calling or threats. I think that's a first!
Definition of a vegan: An extremely smug vegetarian
I went in to a pub and saw a chalk board on the bar which read vegan pies £4.50. I said to the barmaid “ isn’t that the best thing to do with them, what said she, vegans said i.
#BuggerOff
2:15 CLEVER CRUMPET!!!!!!
Sorry, I have no idea what came over me. Oh, it was me...
There’s two reasons why I agree with you 100%. ❤️
I'm not a vegan but I do get a little annoyed at how people treat them. Imagine everyone starting eating dogs and when you spoke up to complain about it everyone just laughed at you. Although I disagree, there is something at least a little admirable or respectable about people who argue maybe we should view all animals the same as we see dogs.
Or the same as we see chickens...
LG1031 I couldn't agree more, I'm from Korea.
Feel free to be a Vegan. But leave it at that. Respect others choices of not being a Vegan. It's the hectoring that irritates people.
@@peps7721 This is exactly what I mean, Your totally ignoring what I just said, if I sat next to you, killed a dog then cooked and ate it you wouldn't be like "I respect your decision to be a dog eater, and I'll sit here quietly while you kill dogs". "Believe what you want but shut up about it" is, imo, a stupid thing to say.
I wouldn't have a problem with eating a dog.
Actually I don't understand, why it is so horrible to eat one.
This is honestly such a mess. YES, shit jokes about vegans are annoying, but we're not a persecuted minority! Animals are the victims in this situation (not us!) and bollocks like this just takes the focus away from that. And just for the record, it's wrong that the Waitrose guy lost his job. In a democratic society we talk to the people we disagree with--we don't try to silence them.
Would you say being a vegan defines who you are as a person? Or is at least your most prominent feature - for lack of a better phrase -?
People are complex and dynamic, I don't think any one thing defines anyone.
@@sophiewatson3924 I agree, but the way in which are perceived by others is influenced by how we present ourselves. Perhaps I didn't form the question correctly. I was more referring to the fact that you're on a video about veganism under the name "Broke Vegan".
I think it's fair to say we haven't been a democratic society for a while. Polite discourse, disagreement and debate went out the window years ago, being replaced by social media outrage and venom.
You seem to have a sensible outlook on life. Shame there aren't a lot more like you.
"Never a Angry vegan"
Never A Anger Vegan
Flexitarian is not a bad choice. I didn’t know there is a word for it, but I m one;) I eat meat when I know it goes thrown away if I don’t eat it. U know u visit people and they bought 5 times to much meat. I just won’t buy it if I have the choice. I don’t know if that is the reason for other “flexitarins” to sometimes eat meat.
Its a buzzword used by idiots to sound virtuous and righteous amongst their peers. Its a ridiculous term that has no meaning 7 billion people are essentially flexitarian due to the nebulous meaning of the term.
@@gravemind6536 Martin just explained to you how it has a different meaning when used in context rather than the very literal meaning *you* choose to take it in.
@@Noface121 I guess flexitarian has a very flexible definition then.
@@gravemind6536 Well she loosely defined it in the video, Martin up there basically fleshed that out.
If you can't make fun of people for their lifestyle choices, I guess it's back to the ol' racist and sexist jokes instead.
Meat, fish, eggs, milk tastes bloody good. Quorn at al tastes bloody revolting however you dress them up.
Kent Donaldson wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Even if it did taste good, are your taste buds more important than the life and wellbeing of an animal?
I realise that certain animals experience suffering before and during slaughter which is an unsettling and troubling problem, however I think it's very hard to form a cogent argument against the consumption of cockles and whelks etc. Where does one stop? Plants also experience responses to stimuli which could be perceived as pain or suffering. @@ellieelizabeth2937
Kent Donaldson There are people who won't eat seeds or roots either as that means the death of a plant. There were some on TV once. They were sitting around a bush asking it for forgiveness for eating its leaves. I've never seen such ill looking people claiming to be well and happy.
@@ellieelizabeth2937 Yes, you stupid cow. And dressing a turd in herbs does not improve the flavour. Quorn is shite.
@@KentDonaldson "Where does one stop?" You stop wherever you wish to. There is a continuum in complexity of nervous systems and with what is known about pain, this likely corresponds to a continuum in the pain response. Ergo, a pig, with its complex nervous system, likely suffers more than a whelk, with its relatively simple nervous system. You draw the line wherever you see fit. ua-cam.com/video/ti-WcnqUwLM/v-deo.html
He said what everyone was thinking and it was really funny, I don’t see why he should lose his job.
Because vegans are people too? This modern day vegaphobia (yes it's a thing) will one day be treated with the same disdain as homophobia, racism, sexism, transphobia, and all the other things we don't tolerate in this day and age. Once people wake up and accept the animal holocaust (as described by many holocaust-surviving Jewish vegans) is a real thing, we'll all be looking back on it as yet another dark moment in history.
There's no right way to do the wrong thing. You can choose to be on the right side of history though.
@@Metal-Possum it was funny, if a little bit misjudged, there is something called offensive humour but every time someone says anything even a bit offensive the woke cancel culture army descend on them with their hundreds of phobias and their ‘moral superiority’ and demand they are sacked, furthermore, did you know that humans have biologically evolved over thousands of years to become omnivores, or would you deny biology? What’s next, we stop bears from eating salmon, lions from eating wildebeest, birds from eating worms?
@@KW-rb4vf I love offensive humour more than anything, but veganism has some pretty radical critics and we don't need things like this to encourage them. I love a lot of vegan jokes, because I know it's all in good fun and I can laugh at myself, but the current hatred of vegans is completely intolerable, especially while vegans are almost certainly standing on the right side of history right now. (and I can't emphasise how much even the most vocal non-vegans will eventually see why)
Did we make offensive "jokes" about Nelson Mandela when he sacrificed everything for people of his own kind? Did we laugh at those trying to abolish slavery? Did we make "hilarious" anti-gay comments when the LGBT community were finally given equal rights?
Humour is a great way to address an issue, or attract attention to it, but a silly anti-vegan comment like this one just isn't really all that funny. Perhaps saying something like "Save plants, eat a vegan" is a better way to poke fun at us herbivores.
@@Metal-Possum I have no clue why you compare being vegan to apartheid, slavery and equal rights, it’s totally irrelevant, nobody wants to kill vegans, nobody wants to enslave vegans or put them in concentration camps and nobody wants to deprive them of their rights, people can be vegan if they want to, literally nobody cares, he was obviously making a joke (which was funny) because he’d been bombarded with proposals for vegan food, he obviously doesn’t really want to kill vegans and actually he apologised because the PC brigade got so offended, honestly I don’t know why you’re taking his comment so seriously. The fact that you compare being vegan to apartheid just shows you to be rather pig-headed or just ignorant.
@@KW-rb4vf Because there's a victim involved, and it's not the vegan, it's the things the vegan are trying to protect. Some holocaust survivors have used the phrase "animal holocaust" and actually claimed what happens on farms and in slaughter houses is worse than what Hitler was responsible for, and at a much larger international scale. There's no right way to do the wrong thing, and the unnatural way we enslave and murder animals for things we have proven we don't need is absolutely disgraceful.
Ah, Victoria....such a lovely looking woman.
I really don't like this unhealthy attitude towards food. Food is food. It's not as complicated as people are intent to make it be so.
No all food is food, foodies eat food that other foodies would consider as food but some other foodies wouldn't. Food for thought?...
Yes, food is food! Are periods food? Is human breast milk food for adults? If no, why do we eat these things when they come from another species?
@@missgracegallagher not your mum, not your milk right?
@@chrisoliver6690 well exactly. Imagine taking human babies away from their mothers so that adults could drink the milk. Barbaric and gross right? Yet it's normal when it's for milk not even meant for our species?
@@missgracegallagher I totally agree.
My wife breast fed our children untill the age of 2 and people find that weird for some reason.
How do you know someone is Vegan? They will tell you
Tofu loaf or Texas brisket chili. Oh life's hard decisions.
one doesn't involve the mass slaughter of innocent life.
Has Ian Hislop lost weight or gained it?
He has gained weight but lost what little shape he ever had.
I’ve watched this episode about 6 times now and I still have no idea what they are talking about.
Every time the show centers on Victoria, my eyes are glued to the bottom half of the screen.
Is it just me?
Im a flexitarian pacifist.
Chicken isn't vegan?
If I won’t go vegan what will they do?
How can you spot a vegan?... Ask any question about anything, they'll work the bit about being vegan into their answer
I can never trust a person that voluntarily erases cheese from their diet
I think people who live only for cheese (or bacon, or whatever you "can't live without") live a rather pathetic life.
@@Metal-Possum there’s lots of things I could live without I’m just to lazy to try
@@Rorymchair classic carnist hiding behind self defeating ‘oh i’m so lazy hehe’ to avoid objectively evaluating the results of their own actions
@@sforbesgocka I thought it was code for suffering from ARFID my whole life and just making a joke at my own expense to not lower the tone by introducing an element I’d describe as a bummer
@@Rorymchair
So you look down on people who aren’t too lazy to try?
I am ethically opposed to veganism.
Why?
Never Anger a Vegan - the meat turns bitter when you cook it ..
Think of all the stress hormones you ingest as a carnist then, you ever seen a cow happily walk up to be killed...
As a devout atheist I enjoy mocking the religious diseased every day.
And I don’t intend to ever stop.
Victoria is a bit hot imo
I'm vegan and I find this very funny
I dated a vegan once.. Just once.
Just send them some SPAM! lolololololololol!
No joke is too far. Whether it's funny or not is up to you however.
Privately perhaps, but I don't think that you can make a tasteless joke like that as an official representative for your company and expect 0 repercussions.
@Coyote FUBAR Yep
You can never annoy a vegan enough xD
Lol very funny. Victoria 🥰😍
I see Victoria and i click. Love an attractive intelligent woman.
"NEVER A ANGER VEGAN" hmm makes sense
Although in reality it shouldn't. Vegans, like any other lifestyle, should avoid the militant stance, which never wins anyone over.
Besides, if one hasn't learned to establish a HEALTHY vegan diet, then they have failed the most vital point, doing it for health above all.
Never a angry vegan?
Victoria’s brother defended him lol
Giles Coren
Good
k.a.v.
i always thought flexitarians were people who eat fish, and perhaps chicken. some of the least environmentally impacting meats.
That's probably the case for some, most likely just depends on why you want to cut out animal products in the first place :)
(Pescetarian is the "correct" word for someone who eats fish but no other meats, and flexitarian basically just means that you're making an effort to eat more vegetarian/vegan food but you haven't committed to actually being vegetarian/vegan.)
flexitarians... Just a pointless moniker for someone with zero dietary restrictions ie a regular person.
Last time I checked, joking about literal genocide wasn't funny
Harry Goodman no, it not very funny. But it seems the argument presented has gone amiss. You see, “joking about genocide” as you put it, is still joking no matter how funny it is. Offence and Humour are subjective in relation to the listener. Make a joke about 9/11 to the victims of that fateful day, you get slated, do the same here in England, some people laugh. Just because you personally didn’t like the joke, doesn’t mean nobody did. It does not actually insight any hatred if the context is taken into consideration. The day we punish comedians, albeit terrible ones, for making a *joke* is the day we become oppressive. This has become, yet again, another example of why freedom of speech should be a human right in the UK; this man lost his job, and all career prospects for the foreseeable future, haven’t you any remorse? All for telling a stupid joke, that would’ve caused literally zero damage to anyone had they not overreacted. Isn’t the fact we can be detained, punished, and beaten because some people were offended the real crime here?
@@subscriberswithnovideos-eg9kq well I think he should've been fired, I understand your argument totally but from a professional perspective, having a writer who jokes about killing off vegans one by one isn't going to look good for Waitrose, so I think he deserved it, was out of order.
Harry Goodman. Good point, I wanted to cover this, but for the sake of not dragging out my comment ( *intense sarcasm* ) I did not pre-empt it. This was not an article he published, it was a crude but understandable response to being badgered constantly to “write a piece on this [insert random topic]”. The man in question did not actually say this when “professionally” speaking anyway. It was an offhand comment, that now lies testament to the complete pandering of the media to literally *anyone* as long as it increases their capital gain. To sum up neatly: Although the right of any company to hire or fire whomever they want, it is quite evident in this case that this was a tactic deployed to appease vegans/vegetarians alike who believe simply taking offence warrants complete shutdown of this, quite frankly previously insignificant comment, in the hopes to further Waitrose’s own causes. That is what transformed this debate into one of Free Speech, how far are people willing to go to not hear mean things?
As a post script, I would like to also make reference to the fact that the very vegan who challenged this journalist also wrote a tweet several years ago (I think) that said “Great!”, un-ironically celebrating the *death* of seven human beings. Said tweet was not even intended as a joke. Hopefully, if not convince you, this at least provides a different enough perspective to leave you with a more sympathetic connection to my point.
@@subscriberswithnovideos-eg9kq I completely understand where you're coming from, and I thank you for speaking so eloquently and calming instead of hammering me like some would. I just personally think Waitrose didn't fire him to please the vegans. Think about any professional job, (let alone one where you are a face of the company), if you say something in appropriate or post something like this on social media that shows you to be arrogant, lacking self control and unprofessional, the company probably wouldn't hire you in the first place and would likely fire you if it was this extreme. Waitrose don't want to be associated with a person who would joke about killing people. end of. I don't think it's massively to do with the fact it's about vegans.
Today in ze German Konzentration Kamp ve will haf ze Ein Hundert Schprint. Ze first mann and ze last mann shall be SHOT!
You two go first.....
#boggeroff
#buggeroff 😀
Doesn't really reflect the full story. Don't see any issue with someone getting fired for sending something that was barely a joke to potential business partners for Waitrose in a professional e-mail. His unprofessionalism cost his company business so he gets sacked. Simple.
Yeah they are always hungry
How do you know when someone's a Vegan?. . . Don't worry, they'll tell you.
Hi, I'm vegan.
who would you like to be...please can i be victoria coren's baby.......
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
how original. hahaha. If God didn't want us to eat HUMANS, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
If God hadn't meant us to eat meat, he wouldn't have made it so bloody tasty.......
@@philipstearn4743 If God didn't want us to factory farm and cause the suffering of billions of animals, why did he give us cages and no empathy? haha.
@@christeebs I don't bloody care, as long as it tastes nice, l really couldn't give a f#&k.
@@philipstearn4743 Yeah fine. not everyone can prioritize basic sensory pleasure over empathy. enjoy your steak.
A vegan comes to your house for dinner, they expect vegan food. You go to a vegan house for dinner, don't expect a steak. They are the most egotistical people going.
ua-cam.com/video/5Mr-2jb6oNA/v-deo.html featuring Mr Victoria Coren
no shit Sherlock