Thank you for this. I am doing the same this weekend for a new (first) welder. Using number 8 wire and a 40 amp breaker in 3/4" conduit, separate wires. Breakers very hard to find lately ... had to order online. Anyways ... much appreciate that you took the time for this fine video Mr. Cook. Best regards from Canada.
At 1:02 .. you can see the thread hole where the green ground screw would go .. the manufacturer does not thread this hole for fun .. there's a purpose .. you can see its lifted so on a flush surface the threats from behind would have clearance.
Have bought a welder and needed to do exactly what you just described… It is what was explain to me, but you actually see it just reinforced the explanation that was given to me on how to do it. Awesome video look forward to Future insight as I am setting up a man cave workshop and sure that I will need to do more electrical configurations
Thanks! Helped me confirm that I had mine wired correctly (6-50R with 6-3 wire into a GFCI 50A 2-pole breaker.) Got my welder up and running and didn’t electrocute myself lol.
added note: ground wires should be green or bare, not white. no mention was made about the breaker size. use 40 amp for 8 guage & 50 amp for 6 guage. the author installed a receptacle. a plug is whats on the end of the welder cord.
Another thing to mention is that the insulation type affects amperage load capability’s. 8 gauge with THHN insulation can carry 55amps. Another thing is voltage drop for longer runs.
@@joewest9663 the neutral is a current carrying conductor. the ground does not carry a current. the green ground is to trip the breaker in the event of a short or fault. in the main breaker panel only, the ground & neutral are connected to the same terminal bar in the panel. any sub-panels, the grounds & neutrals are separate. the neutral is not bonded to the sub-panel enclosure. on a 240 volt welder or compressor with a 3 prong plug, there is no neutral, only a ground which is the green conductor for grounding. grounds & neutrals are cold to the touch. hope this helps.
@@garybrown7044 that does help clarify however, perhaps this is just Canada, but ONLY a bare wire or a green wire designate ground and a white wire is ALWAYS neutral UNLESS tagged with red tape on the ends in a panel or junction box. I also understand unless 240 is running with supplemental 120 for ie a stove with 'bells and whistles' a neutral is not required. Please let me know if your premise is for Canadian code as well as American cause I'm back to the code books for a refresher otherwise.
I've been researching videos for installing this same outlet for my welder, and for whatever reason I just couldn't find the right videos for the info I needed. This video along with some of my questions answered by comments made it so simple yet gave me all the info I needed
Wow yes great video, I fill very comfortable doing the installation of my outlet now. I also was quoted $800. big ones for this exact job electrician said we would need a permit from the city. Thanks so much.
Good Video! You should re-identify the white to green! You can use green tape for that purpose. Not saying unsafe, but not legal to strip a cable and use conductors within a conduit. Reason: No markings on the conductors as required by NEC.
@@FishFind3000 For sure, it's a great practice and is code. But still. If you're poking around in the breaker box like that you should know that entire rail is ground. And if you're messing with that specific 220v plug you'll see it's the white wire being used as ground on the other end. I mean, it really makes no difference. Power will be shut off to entire box if you're working in there with panel off like that. There's no real practical reason to mark it except for quick ease.
“These black and red wires” you mean the hot leads and “this white wire” you mean the neutral which you’ll use as a ground. Just bustin’ your chops. Well done video.
I desperately need help wiring my welder. I wired my 220 dryer no problem. Because it was two 110's and a ground. NO NEUTRAL. The problem is this old Miller Thunderbolt stick welder has a power cord with a black wire, white wire and green. SO I'M SCREWED. Apparently this welder seems to expect me to have 240 power that incorporates a white neutral wire. What do I do?
Since you're using conduit, instead taking flexible #6 cord and stripping the sheath, you'll find it easier and more-to-code to use individual conductor (black, red, green) such as THHN. The cord isn't really approved for this purpose, THHN or T90 (Canadian spec) is and you have the right colour code for ground. The THHN is probably cheaper too. Likely easier to find than #6 flex cord. Secondly, sometimes in the future you might want to modify the panel (move breakers, run new circuits), so it's customary practice to have several inches (6" or more) extra wire (stripped of its external sheath) in the panel. It prevents stress on the terminals. Tight point-to-point really isn't a good idea. Note: I've always disliked the US practise of using metallic conduit (or indeed, in the old days of using AC armor with or without some wimpy bare wire) as a protective ground. Our codes require a ground wire connect to the receptacle box EVEN IF the conduit and boxes are metal. I had an American friend having a hot-box short causing the old corroded armor glow red hot while STILL not providing enough of a grounding path to fire the breaker. Fortunately he had the wall open as part of a renovation and spotted it, otherwise, his house would have burned down. This was code in the US until a decade or two ago. It's been a very very long time since it was legal here. I just installed a similar circuit (#6, same 6-50 outlet as you) to alternately power a EV charger or my welder, but in 3/4" plastic conduit. The box got grounded. There is a trick on how to do this without needing an extra terminal or a wirenut.
In order to meet the electrical code would the white neutral wire insulation need to be taped over with green electrical tape to identify it as ground ?. I am assuming you are here in Canada Mister Fromage ( cheese ).
For welder branch circuit installations here in the USA, I do not rely on the Rigid Metal Conduit (RMC) for the grounding conductor, a dedicated green colored stranded copper conductor is used for the grounding conductor. However, the RMC helps with electric noise radiation when the welder is in operation. This means the complete branch circuit install uses metal boxes and metal conduit so the entire branch circuit is encased in ferrous metal (galvanized steel or equivalent), much like the requirement if the conduit was used as the ground. In all my installs, I never rely on the conduit for grounding, a separate grounding wire is always pulled, which usually does not adversely impact the conductor fill limitations. For a USA 50 Amp 240 VAC welder branch circuit install, the common conduit used is 3/4 inch Rigid Metal Conduit. RMC uses pipe threads and conductive (copper based) thread sealant at joints. The CB is 50 Amp 2-Pole (usually with 75 degree C rated terminals). The wire is THHN 6 AWG and usually pulled as Black, Red, White and Green. So 4 conductors (each 6 AWG) in total (THHN stranded copper). Conduit bodies are used to facilitate lengthy pulls, and you can use wire lubricant if needed. The White wire is only used if the welder requires a Neutral connection, which is usually not the case with newer welders, but is pulled just in case the owner wants to move to a 4 connection 50 Amp 240 + Neutral style plug.
@@BobSmith-iu3hx The only remarking required in the CEC, is marking white wires black to denote a potentially live wire. There's no reason to use white THHN for a ground.
@@windward2818 I would have thought that the NEC had abandoned the use of conduit for grounding by now. CEC hasn't allowed it for a very very long time - mostly I think because they decided it was better to make sure it was protected against some moron replacing a section metal conduit with plastic. My 240V 50A welder branch was done with 2" PVC conduit (obviously oversize) using #4 black, red, green and white THHN. A professional electrician recommended #4, because #6 was considered code-marginal at the length required. This wasn't the electrician trying to up his price, because I was doing the #4 purchase myself, and besides my son was also installing #4 in conduit, and got a good price for buying both my and his requirements. The outlet is wired with a 14-50 socket (4 prong) to maximize flexibility (eg: someone had to plug in an RV), while at the same time the EV charger (which is what is plugged in the most) and the welder were ordered with the 14-50 option.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 Here in the USA there are several methods approved for equipment grounding conductor, one being RMC conduit. However, the real issue is that to effectively create an equipment grounding method, RMC has to be installed properly, which means using a conduit grounding bushing when it enters the breaker panel, sealing the threaded connections and other workmanship techniques that are not always properly executed (the threaded joints must be very tight and conduit must be supported by straps and other methods). If working with 6 AWG THHN I just pull a green copper THHN 6 AWG grounding conductor in the conduit. For a welder branch circuit I always use an Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) THHN copper stranded wire. I have a lot of 6 AWG THHN Green which is very popular for earthing and bonding here in the USA, so I generally use this. If the conduit bends are crazy without the proper use of conduit bodies, meaning I did not do the install, then I will consider moving to a smaller EGC as permitted by code so a 10 AWG THHN wire. THHN 4 AWG will work for a welder install, in the USA the voltage drop would not be a prime concern for 240 VAC if 5% total or less, so 6 AWG usually meets code. However, if you want to minimize the voltage drop then moving to 4 AWG would be a solution. Using 4 AWG is also popular if you plan on upgrading your welding equipment, you can then usually just replace the 50 Amp CB with a 60 Amp CB, without modifying the branch circuit wiring, although you will probably need to connect the welder directly to the feed circuit and not use a receptacle. Moving to THHN 4 AWG from THHN 6 AWG would require the use of 1 inch trade size RMC. 1 inch trade size RMC is harder to thread than the 3/4 inch if done by hand. The 4 AWG THHN 50 Amp 3 pole + ground is very popular for electric vehicle charging branch circuits and use a NEMA 14-50R 50 Amp receptacle but rated heavy duty (continuous duty) like the Hubbell HBL9450A. As a result, some welder installs in a residential garage would use this receptacle and then an adaptor cable (or adapt in the plug) to a the 6-50R 2 pole + ground popular with welders. In this way you can plug in your electric vehicle to charge or use your welder, but not both at the same time. As you can see, when accommodating electric vehicle charging we need to pull 3 pole (Black, Red, White) + ground (Green), and as you pointed out, there are other uses for the NEMA 14-50R Receptacle.
*3 dangerous mistakes* 1) you have 10 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. The 10awg wire will exceed its 30amp rating _before_ your 50amp breaker trips. Either change to 6awg OR reduce your breaker to 30amps. 2) you didn't ground that metal box. put in a green fround screw and pigtail it to the circuit grounds 3) tape the white neutral with green tape on both ends to denote that it is being used as a ground wire ✌️
I used 6/2 wire and used the ground wire provided. It didn't seem as thick as the other wires, should I have bought 6/3 and used a conductor as a ground, and discarded the ground wire?
@@CrashBr0 If you're buying properly NEC/CEC approved cable, the ground wire will be sized appropriately. Generally speaking, the grounding wire does NOT need to be the same size as the hot or neutrals, because it only needs to be rugged enough to last the brief period required to blow the breaker. That said, the CEC (at least) defines it more formally by saying that the ground must be the same gauge as the hot/neutral up to #6, up to 200A (0000), grounding only needs to be #6. Which is why bonding straps for 200A mains is "only" #6. So your 6/2 is fine, unless you purchased fake wire.
Great video and easy to understand step by step. Actually, I already have a 240 line with a long extension cord coming from my garage fuse box that plugs into my gas generator for when the power goes out. I simply, turn off my main breaker in my basement, then turn on my breaker for my 240 service in my garage, which also has a dedicated line running into my home breaker box It saved me countless times when my power went out in rain and ice storms running my sump pumps, refrigerator and all house hold items. Long story short, I simply want to hard wire a 240 receptacle into a 15000 watt electric garage heater and use the existing 240 line extension cord to plug into it. Just like I do with my dedicated home generator in my garage.
I'm about to buy a welder and I'm hoping I can get it all set up. I know this little hobart mig140 will work but I'm wanting to get this one I think its miller that allows me to do all the processes
I'm installing a 240V line for an Air compressor. In order to make this circuit as versatile as possible, I'm thinking of running either 6/3 or 8/3 wire to the outlet. I notice most air compressors don't appear to use a neutral though so should you just leave the neutral disconnected on both ends, or do they make some kind of adapter to adapt the 3-prong plug on the air compressor to a 4 pronged receptacle (w/ neutral) outlet box?
Hello Im a not very educated with amps I bought a welder that says 230 but it also says it welds far above 50 amps would I need a plug with more head room then what it can weld or how does it work.
Just to confirm so it has two positive wires black and red not just one like you would do a regular plug I'm asking because the breaker has for two wires so it would have to be two positive right
I’m looking at this same project for my welder and plasma cutter, I’m not an electrician so I’m a bit confused. Why didn’t you use the bare ground wire? I’ve seen some videos where the ground wire is looped onto the box ground terminal and then a pigtail to go to the outlet. Also some people terminate the white/neutral and not use it. What is the difference?
Please help me explain what I need to do if the plug I have is 220 and I need a 240 plug aswell. Can I have a converter plug for that or I need to have another met outlet for the 220 that is a separate dedicated line on its own. So I need both 220 and 240 for different things how solve the issue. I have a glass fusing kiln with the different powers. I appreciate all your help and information.
Have a question I don’t have space in my box to add the breaker yet electrician mention I don’t have to change out to a bigger box to add the breaker for the plug. He says option would be putting a tandem, would that work?
Where can I buy the outlet and the male and female plug couse I want to make an extention cord too. And also what amperes will I use in the breaker? Thank very much..
This is a main panel (first means of disconnect) the neutral and the ground are bonded (connected) here. In a sub panel the neutral and ground are separated.
I'm not a licensed electrician but I believe it is because the power coming into a residential house is two phase 220-240. The potential between the two phases is 240V RMS and the 120V is half the potential between these two phases. So a 120V circuit will use either L1 - neutral or L2 - neutral and a 220 circuit will use L1-L2.
The 4-prong receptacles have a neutral, 2 hots and a ground. If the equipment doesn't need any 120 volt service, then the manufacturer can reduce costs by eliminating the neutral. You only need a neutral if you need to supply something with 120 volts. I suppose you COULD achieve 120 vac by connecting the machinery to one hot and to ground, but that would probably be totally against established electrical safety codes. But I know what you mean. It's frustrating to have equipment that won't connect because your plug won't fit the receptacle.
Don’t let the juice get on the floor. Slippery! I want to add a 50 Amp 220 vac outlet to my existing outlet that’s for my air compressor. Can I hook the new one into the existing one? They won’t be running at the same time. The new plug is for my MIG welder. Thanks
I just got the same hardware to make an extension cord . Is the short blade considered the "Hot" I remind myself that in 120v outlets that the Hot wire is black and connects on the "Short" terminal or short slot and corresponding short blade . The white wire is considered neutral .
Will work well, and it's safe enough, but not up to code anymore. Need an additional ground now... annoying I know, but folks, if you want your insurance to cover in case of a fire, make sure you are up to code!
@@TheCookFamilyHomestead I know. And that's what pisses me off... I had to change all outlets in my shop to please the stupid insurance after a surprised building inspection; them saying that it wasn't up to code. But I've been in business for 20 years and nothing happened and I'm running one 252 Miller and two 352s plus a plasma cutter... go figure!
@@davidnobilese6124 Le code du bâtiment du Québec, they call this a "returned ground" in French. The bureaucrats came up with this, just in case the white wire comes loose because of its size, the extra ground smaller and less chance to loosen over time, is a backup. Fucking dumb rule, and totally overkilled, but no choice otherwise insurances won't cover any loss if anything had to happen and the electricity would be the cause and not "to code".
This stuff is lethal. The fact that you can do something doesn’t mean that you should do it. Here in the great south land these parts are not sold in hardware stores. They come from trade suppliers who will always refuse you if you don’t know what you are doing or if you look dopey!! At 240 volt the biggest plug YOU can buy is 15 Amperes. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!! Stavros
I desperately need help wiring my welder. I wired my 220 dryer no problem. Because it was two 110's and a ground. NO NEUTRAL. The problem is this old Miller Thunderbolt stick welder has a power cord with a black wire, white wire and green. SO I'M SCREWED. Apparently this welder expects me to have 240 power that incorporates a white neutral wire. What do I do?
I responded to your other post but assuming your welder is 240v then it will be wired the same way 2 hots and a ground. Your welder cord is using the white wire as a hot leg not a neutral
Nice video , thanks for sharing !! Why do you call the white wire "ground" instead of "neutral" ?? Can you connect it to the neutral bus or do you have to connect the white wire to the ground bus ?? Thanks for your generous consideration, Sincerely ........................ God bless :)
Thank you! All of your information on this video was very helpful . Is there a certain kind or type of 6/2 gauge wire I should be looking to purchase for this Outlet connection?
No, because the welder changes its amps by altering the output voltage. It 240 supplys the welder at 50 amps then the welder is turned to 200 amps then the output voltage is actually lowered to slightly more than 50 volts. The input amps will stay proportional to the input volts.
I am getting ready to do the same for my new jointer and band saw that need 220.I bought metal outlet boxes as well to attach to the poured basement wall. I thought from my research that if using a metal box you had to ground the actual metal box by adding a green screw directly to the box. I am no electrician just a diy type and was wondering why you opted not to do that step? I want to ensure I do it right.
Hi & Thanks for all your help that you offer every one. I have a question though! Does any one out there know how to run a USA (4 wire) x 2 Live, x 1 neutral, x 1 Earth, 220 Volt - - (120 Volt Live x2) - - off an American made Generator TO a 3 pronged (3 wire) x 1 Live x 1 Neutral, x 1 Earth UK PLUG?
the colour of the wires is irrelevant. typically green is ground and white is neutral and black/red are the hot legs. If you have 4 wires and are installing a 6-50R receptacle (same as the video) you'll have an extra wire that you wont need.
@@TheIanmurphy Thank you very much, it turns out you are right... one of those green wires was attached to an electrical box for grounding. Later on, I measured the electrical current coming out of the outlet and it was just as it should be (240 V) Cheers!
thank you my dad is an electriction but he wouldnt help or show me how your video is a life saver i appreciate it
Thank you for this. I am doing the same this weekend for a new (first) welder. Using number 8 wire and a 40 amp breaker in 3/4" conduit, separate wires. Breakers very hard to find lately ... had to order online. Anyways ... much appreciate that you took the time for this fine video Mr. Cook. Best regards from Canada.
Great video.. only tip I'd tell others is ground your outlet box , when using metal boxes
At 1:02 .. you can see the thread hole where the green ground screw would go .. the manufacturer does not thread this hole for fun .. there's a purpose .. you can see its lifted so on a flush surface the threats from behind would have clearance.
I don't care as much as you do lol .. you win your right .. give your self a cookie 🍪 lol
Have bought a welder and needed to do exactly what you just described… It is what was explain to me, but you actually see it just reinforced the explanation that was given to me on how to do it. Awesome video look forward to Future insight as I am setting up a man cave workshop and sure that I will need to do more electrical configurations
Literally installed this same set up for a welders machine, 2c #8 and a #10 ground. 2 pole 40amp breaker, 3/4 conduit makes it easier. 🤙🏽
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!! Jeez Louise, I can’t tell you how hard it is to find something this good or simple
Thank you!
Thanks! Helped me confirm that I had mine wired correctly (6-50R with 6-3 wire into a GFCI 50A 2-pole breaker.) Got my welder up and running and didn’t electrocute myself lol.
in this case, does nothing connect to the breaker's load neutral?
Super instructional video. Will be installing mine in the next few days. Will return for step-by-step instruction/installation. Have a great Navy day!
added note: ground wires should be green or bare, not white. no mention was made about the breaker size. use 40 amp for 8 guage & 50 amp for 6 guage. the author installed a receptacle. a plug is whats on the end of the welder cord.
Another thing to mention is that the insulation type affects amperage load capability’s. 8 gauge with THHN insulation can carry 55amps. Another thing is voltage drop for longer runs.
That was helpfull! I was wondering why people were using 50amp breakers
WTF Some REAL confusion here between a 'ground' and a 'neutral'. Even where the white ground was plugged in appeared to be a neutral bar.
@@joewest9663 the neutral is a current carrying conductor. the ground does not carry a current. the green ground is to trip the breaker in the event of a short or fault. in the main breaker panel only, the ground & neutral are connected to the same terminal bar in the panel. any sub-panels, the grounds & neutrals are separate. the neutral is not bonded to the sub-panel enclosure. on a 240 volt welder or compressor with a 3 prong plug, there is no neutral, only a ground which is the green conductor for grounding. grounds & neutrals are cold to the touch. hope this helps.
@@garybrown7044 that does help clarify however, perhaps this is just Canada, but ONLY a bare wire or a green wire designate ground and a white wire is ALWAYS neutral UNLESS tagged with red tape on the ends in a panel or junction box. I also understand unless 240 is running with supplemental 120 for ie a stove with 'bells and whistles' a neutral is not required. Please let me know if your premise is for Canadian code as well as American cause I'm back to the code books for a refresher otherwise.
I thought it would be harder than it looked. Followed your steps and mine works too.
I did a 220 space heater (same idea)
Thank you
I've been researching videos for installing this same outlet for my welder, and for whatever reason I just couldn't find the right videos for the info I needed. This video along with some of my questions answered by comments made it so simple yet gave me all the info I needed
Very easy to understand, had to get one for my electric car..saved $500 Thank you
Wow yes great video, I fill very comfortable doing the installation of my outlet now. I also was quoted $800. big ones for this exact job electrician said we would need a permit from the city. Thanks so much.
Good Video! You should re-identify the white to green! You can use green tape for that purpose. Not saying unsafe, but not legal to strip a cable and use conductors within a conduit. Reason: No markings on the conductors as required by NEC.
I would have wrapped green tape around the white wire to indicate a green ground wire.
I mean it's kind of obvious to anyone looking at it.
@@jonny-b4954 it's kind of green on one end 🙄 it's kind of white on the other 😜
@@jonny-b4954 it’s still not right. It’s supposed to be marked.
@@FishFind3000 For sure, it's a great practice and is code. But still. If you're poking around in the breaker box like that you should know that entire rail is ground. And if you're messing with that specific 220v plug you'll see it's the white wire being used as ground on the other end. I mean, it really makes no difference. Power will be shut off to entire box if you're working in there with panel off like that. There's no real practical reason to mark it except for quick ease.
A lot easier than I thought. Thank you, we greatly appreciate you.
Thanks for making this video, I need to hook my welder up at my new garage and it was just what I needed !!!!!!!!!!
Nice demonstrating. Your explanation is very clear and easy to understand. Thanks for your video
Thanks I'm adding a 240v 20amp for my wife's volvo, all this applies, thanks
Thank you for clear and precise explanation.
“These black and red wires” you mean the hot leads and “this white wire” you mean the neutral which you’ll use as a ground. Just bustin’ your chops. Well done video.
Hahahaha that’s the funniest joke I’ve ever heard! Just bustin your chops. Nice comment
No neutral in 240V two hots and ground😂😂
@@McGrathMotorsports Yup, I said you’ll use the neutral wire as a ground.
I desperately need help wiring my welder. I wired my 220 dryer no problem. Because it was two 110's and a ground. NO NEUTRAL.
The problem is this old Miller Thunderbolt stick welder has a power cord with a black wire, white wire and green. SO I'M SCREWED. Apparently this welder seems to expect me to have 240 power that incorporates a white neutral wire. What do I do?
@@mperhaps relax dude If the welder is 240v they’re using the black as a hot leg, the white as a hot leg, and the green as the ground(obviously)
Since you're using conduit, instead taking flexible #6 cord and stripping the sheath, you'll find it easier and more-to-code to use individual conductor (black, red, green) such as THHN. The cord isn't really approved for this purpose, THHN or T90 (Canadian spec) is and you have the right colour code for ground. The THHN is probably cheaper too. Likely easier to find than #6 flex cord.
Secondly, sometimes in the future you might want to modify the panel (move breakers, run new circuits), so it's customary practice to have several inches (6" or more) extra wire (stripped of its external sheath) in the panel. It prevents stress on the terminals. Tight point-to-point really isn't a good idea.
Note: I've always disliked the US practise of using metallic conduit (or indeed, in the old days of using AC armor with or without some wimpy bare wire) as a protective ground. Our codes require a ground wire connect to the receptacle box EVEN IF the conduit and boxes are metal. I had an American friend having a hot-box short causing the old corroded armor glow red hot while STILL not providing enough of a grounding path to fire the breaker. Fortunately he had the wall open as part of a renovation and spotted it, otherwise, his house would have burned down. This was code in the US until a decade or two ago. It's been a very very long time since it was legal here.
I just installed a similar circuit (#6, same 6-50 outlet as you) to alternately power a EV charger or my welder, but in 3/4" plastic conduit. The box got grounded. There is a trick on how to do this without needing an extra terminal or a wirenut.
In order to meet the electrical code would the white neutral wire insulation need to be taped over with green electrical tape to identify it as ground ?. I am assuming you are here in Canada Mister Fromage ( cheese ).
For welder branch circuit installations here in the USA, I do not rely on the Rigid Metal Conduit (RMC) for the grounding conductor, a dedicated green colored stranded copper conductor is used for the grounding conductor. However, the RMC helps with electric noise radiation when the welder is in operation. This means the complete branch circuit install uses metal boxes and metal conduit so the entire branch circuit is encased in ferrous metal (galvanized steel or equivalent), much like the requirement if the conduit was used as the ground. In all my installs, I never rely on the conduit for grounding, a separate grounding wire is always pulled, which usually does not adversely impact the conductor fill limitations.
For a USA 50 Amp 240 VAC welder branch circuit install, the common conduit used is 3/4 inch Rigid Metal Conduit. RMC uses pipe threads and conductive (copper based) thread sealant at joints. The CB is 50 Amp 2-Pole (usually with 75 degree C rated terminals). The wire is THHN 6 AWG and usually pulled as Black, Red, White and Green. So 4 conductors (each 6 AWG) in total (THHN stranded copper). Conduit bodies are used to facilitate lengthy pulls, and you can use wire lubricant if needed. The White wire is only used if the welder requires a Neutral connection, which is usually not the case with newer welders, but is pulled just in case the owner wants to move to a 4 connection 50 Amp 240 + Neutral style plug.
@@BobSmith-iu3hx The only remarking required in the CEC, is marking white wires black to denote a potentially live wire. There's no reason to use white THHN for a ground.
@@windward2818 I would have thought that the NEC had abandoned the use of conduit for grounding by now. CEC hasn't allowed it for a very very long time - mostly I think because they decided it was better to make sure it was protected against some moron replacing a section metal conduit with plastic.
My 240V 50A welder branch was done with 2" PVC conduit (obviously oversize) using #4 black, red, green and white THHN. A professional electrician recommended #4, because #6 was considered code-marginal at the length required. This wasn't the electrician trying to up his price, because I was doing the #4 purchase myself, and besides my son was also installing #4 in conduit, and got a good price for buying both my and his requirements.
The outlet is wired with a 14-50 socket (4 prong) to maximize flexibility (eg: someone had to plug in an RV), while at the same time the EV charger (which is what is plugged in the most) and the welder were ordered with the 14-50 option.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377
Here in the USA there are several methods approved for equipment grounding conductor, one being RMC conduit. However, the real issue is that to effectively create an equipment grounding method, RMC has to be installed properly, which means using a conduit grounding bushing when it enters the breaker panel, sealing the threaded connections and other workmanship techniques that are not always properly executed (the threaded joints must be very tight and conduit must be supported by straps and other methods).
If working with 6 AWG THHN I just pull a green copper THHN 6 AWG grounding conductor in the conduit. For a welder branch circuit I always use an Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) THHN copper stranded wire. I have a lot of 6 AWG THHN Green which is very popular for earthing and bonding here in the USA, so I generally use this. If the conduit bends are crazy without the proper use of conduit bodies, meaning I did not do the install, then I will consider moving to a smaller EGC as permitted by code so a 10 AWG THHN wire.
THHN 4 AWG will work for a welder install, in the USA the voltage drop would not be a prime concern for 240 VAC if 5% total or less, so 6 AWG usually meets code. However, if you want to minimize the voltage drop then moving to 4 AWG would be a solution. Using 4 AWG is also popular if you plan on upgrading your welding equipment, you can then usually just replace the 50 Amp CB with a 60 Amp CB, without modifying the branch circuit wiring, although you will probably need to connect the welder directly to the feed circuit and not use a receptacle. Moving to THHN 4 AWG from THHN 6 AWG would require the use of 1 inch trade size RMC. 1 inch trade size RMC is harder to thread than the 3/4 inch if done by hand.
The 4 AWG THHN 50 Amp 3 pole + ground is very popular for electric vehicle charging branch circuits and use a NEMA 14-50R 50 Amp receptacle but rated heavy duty (continuous duty) like the Hubbell HBL9450A. As a result, some welder installs in a residential garage would use this receptacle and then an adaptor cable (or adapt in the plug) to a the 6-50R 2 pole + ground popular with welders. In this way you can plug in your electric vehicle to charge or use your welder, but not both at the same time. As you can see, when accommodating electric vehicle charging we need to pull 3 pole (Black, Red, White) + ground (Green), and as you pointed out, there are other uses for the NEMA 14-50R Receptacle.
Odd left out the important visuals. Thanks for showing us how to run wire.
The white ground wire should have green tape on it so it won’t be confused with the neutral.
*3 dangerous mistakes*
1) you have 10 guage wire going to a 50 amp breaker. The 10awg wire will exceed its 30amp rating _before_ your 50amp breaker trips. Either change to 6awg OR reduce your breaker to 30amps.
2) you didn't ground that metal box. put in a green fround screw and pigtail it to the circuit grounds
3) tape the white neutral with green tape on both ends to denote that it is being used as a ground wire ✌️
I used 6/2 wire and used the ground wire provided. It didn't seem as thick as the other wires, should I have bought 6/3 and used a conductor as a ground, and discarded the ground wire?
@@CrashBr0 If you're buying properly NEC/CEC approved cable, the ground wire will be sized appropriately. Generally speaking, the grounding wire does NOT need to be the same size as the hot or neutrals, because it only needs to be rugged enough to last the brief period required to blow the breaker.
That said, the CEC (at least) defines it more formally by saying that the ground must be the same gauge as the hot/neutral up to #6, up to 200A (0000), grounding only needs to be #6. Which is why bonding straps for 200A mains is "only" #6. So your 6/2 is fine, unless you purchased fake wire.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 Thanks for the explanation! 👍
@@CrashBr0 I should have phrased it as being labelled as CSA or some form of UL.
Thank you great explanation and great personality and good tatorial
Thank you!!!
Good video! Right to the point.
Thank you! Appreciate the comment.
Youre excellent at teaching
Thank.your video help me out lot
Great video and easy to understand
step by step. Actually, I already have a 240 line with a long extension cord coming from my garage fuse box that plugs into my gas generator for when the power goes out. I simply, turn off my main breaker in my basement, then turn on my breaker for my 240 service in my garage, which also has a dedicated line running into my home breaker box
It saved me countless times when my power went out in rain and ice storms running my sump pumps, refrigerator and all house hold items. Long story short, I simply want to hard wire a 240 receptacle into a 15000 watt electric garage heater and use the existing 240 line extension cord to plug into it. Just like I do with my dedicated home generator in my garage.
I'm abaut to put one autlet for My welder, thanks apreciate.
good stuff. i need to install one for my welding machine aswell
Same I'm doing this in a few weeks so I'm studying
Great video,thank!!!
I need to install the breaker in the 200 AMP panel located in the basement. I will run the conduit about 15 feet away into the garage.
Dam i called an electrician to do this exact same thing and he charge me $500 wow i got ripped big time
Great video! Thanks. Now I know a new skill.
Super help videos
I believe the 2020 NEC requires a GFCI 50A breaker.
Thats correct, but it depends on where you live and what version of the code book your municipality uses. Indiana uses the 2008 NEC
I'm about to buy a welder and I'm hoping I can get it all set up. I know this little hobart mig140 will work but I'm wanting to get this one I think its miller that allows me to do all the processes
How do you like your multi process miller?
@@kylemcweeny878 somebody convinced me to get the Lincoln, I'm enjoying it
I'm installing a 240V line for an Air compressor. In order to make this circuit as versatile as possible, I'm thinking of running either 6/3 or 8/3 wire to the outlet. I notice most air compressors don't appear to use a neutral though so should you just leave the neutral disconnected on both ends, or do they make some kind of adapter to adapt the 3-prong plug on the air compressor to a 4 pronged receptacle (w/ neutral) outlet box?
did you do a video for the circuit on the right of the panel i an curious what is it and what are you using it for ???
ThanKS for the video
Thank you for watching!
Hey how are you doing today can you tell me the footage of wire that you have and how much just for wire
Thank you for the video!!
THANK YOU VIDEO YOU MADE LOOK SIMPLE .
Nice video clip, keep it up, thank you for sharing it :)
good video and good demonstration man thanks
Is that Stranded wire?
does it need a permit when adding a dedicated outlet for a welder in a detach garage?
Only if you are a good sheep and ask for permission for everything!
Hello Im a not very educated with amps I bought a welder that says 230 but it also says it welds far above 50 amps would I need a plug with more head room then what it can weld or how does it work.
Can I able to install 240 volt outlet using 6 gauge wire far away approximately 60ft
Just to confirm so it has two positive wires black and red not just one like you would do a regular plug I'm asking because the breaker has for two wires so it would have to be two positive right
I would have expected you to use a GFCI breaker for a non living area electric receptacle. Is there some reason that you didn't?
Thank you, cool video. Question. Can I use UF 6/2 instead of NM because it's cheaper at Lowes for some reason? Thanks.
That is good
must of been a bugger making that 90 degree turn? great and easy to follow vid. thanks much.. ....happy trails...
Thank you!
@@TheCookFamilyHomestead oifofoco
I wish i had the kind of tome you do
I’m looking at this same project for my welder and plasma cutter, I’m not an electrician so I’m a bit confused. Why didn’t you use the bare ground wire?
I’ve seen some videos where the ground wire is looped onto the box ground terminal and then a pigtail to go to the outlet. Also some people terminate the white/neutral and not use it.
What is the difference?
Please help me explain what I need to do if the plug I have is 220 and I need a 240 plug aswell. Can I have a converter plug for that or I need to have another met outlet for the 220 that is a separate dedicated line on its own. So I need both 220 and 240 for different things how solve the issue. I have a glass fusing kiln with the different powers. I appreciate all your help and information.
It’s was super helpful to see how you explained it. Thank you .
Have a question I don’t have space in my box to add the breaker yet electrician mention I don’t have to change out to a bigger box to add the breaker for the plug. He says option would be putting a tandem, would that work?
Where can I buy the outlet and the male and female plug couse I want to make an extention cord too. And also what amperes will I use in the breaker? Thank very much..
interested you put the ground on the neutral bar ?
This is a main panel (first means of disconnect) the neutral and the ground are bonded (connected) here. In a sub panel the neutral and ground are separated.
Would be nice to have video of the box hook up
I show it in the video.
Why is there no neutral on a 250 volt outlets? Thanks for your video.
I'm not a licensed electrician but I believe it is because the power coming into a residential house is two phase 220-240. The potential between the two phases is 240V RMS and the 120V is half the potential between these two phases. So a 120V circuit will use either L1 - neutral or L2 - neutral and a 220 circuit will use L1-L2.
Because each leg carriers 120v for 240v across them. 120v circuits have one 120v leg and a neutral
The 4-prong receptacles have a neutral, 2 hots and a ground. If the equipment doesn't need any 120 volt service, then the manufacturer can reduce costs by eliminating the neutral. You only need a neutral if you need to supply something with 120 volts. I suppose you COULD achieve 120 vac by connecting the machinery to one hot and to ground, but that would probably be totally against established electrical safety codes.
But I know what you mean. It's frustrating to have equipment that won't connect because your plug won't fit the receptacle.
Awesome video thank you.
I was told to do 2 40 amp breakers. One on each poll of my fuse box. Is that nesasary?
I don't think so. I'm not sure why someone would put two breakers on? It isn't needed. I run a 220 welder on this set up with absolutely zero issues.
Is that green ground screw. Bonded if so is that your main panel or Sub
Do you need to run a 50 amp breaker? or can you get away with 30 amp breaker ?
Do you have the video on how you made the 240v extension cord
Great video
Thank you, great informative video!
Don’t let the juice get on the floor. Slippery!
I want to add a 50 Amp 220 vac outlet to my existing outlet that’s for my air compressor. Can I hook the new one into the existing one? They won’t be running at the same time. The new plug is for my MIG welder.
Thanks
Is 6/2 romex suited for the job? I am also making an outlet for my miller welder
Thank you.
😳👍⚡⚡ very helpful thank you
So if I go the simpler route I don’t need a 50 amp breaker?
I just got the same hardware to make an extension cord .
Is the short blade considered the "Hot" I remind myself that in 120v outlets that the Hot wire is black and connects on the "Short" terminal or short slot and corresponding short blade . The white wire is considered neutral .
The little mean one.
Can you use 10 gauge wire for this
Difference between solid wire or stranded?
Will work well, and it's safe enough, but not up to code anymore. Need an additional ground now... annoying I know, but folks, if you want your insurance to cover in case of a fire, make sure you are up to code!
Zero chance this will cause a fire. Zero.
@@TheCookFamilyHomestead I know. And that's what pisses me off... I had to change all outlets in my shop to please the stupid insurance after a surprised building inspection; them saying that it wasn't up to code. But I've been in business for 20 years and nothing happened and I'm running one 252 Miller and two 352s plus a plasma cutter... go figure!
And what would an additional ground do? And what code are you attempting to reference?
@@davidnobilese6124 Le code du bâtiment du Québec, they call this a "returned ground" in French. The bureaucrats came up with this, just in case the white wire comes loose because of its size, the extra ground smaller and less chance to loosen over time, is a backup. Fucking dumb rule, and totally overkilled, but no choice otherwise insurances won't cover any loss if anything had to happen and the electricity would be the cause and not "to code".
This stuff is lethal. The fact that you can do something doesn’t mean that you should do it.
Here in the great south land these parts are not sold in hardware stores.
They come from trade suppliers who will always refuse you if you don’t know what you are doing or if you look dopey!!
At 240 volt the biggest plug YOU can buy is 15 Amperes.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!!
Stavros
Been using my welder a ton with this plug with zero issues. None. Feel free to go troll someone else. You are wrong.
The heck is that guy talking about lol
My panel does not have a main switch to turn off power. Is it possible to turn off power by turning all breakers to the off position
Then it's probably a sub panel, go to the panel feeding it and turn off the breaker there.
I desperately need help wiring my welder. I wired my 220 dryer no problem. Because it was two 110's and a ground. NO NEUTRAL.
The problem is this old Miller Thunderbolt stick welder has a power cord with a black wire, white wire and green. SO I'M SCREWED. Apparently this welder expects me to have 240 power that incorporates a white neutral wire. What do I do?
I responded to your other post but assuming your welder is 240v then it will be wired the same way 2 hots and a ground. Your welder cord is using the white wire as a hot leg not a neutral
I'm assuming when you attach the breaker to the panel is when contacted with the live power?
Why did you not bond the box to the ground wire?
Thank you sir.
Nice video , thanks for sharing !!
Why do you call the white wire "ground" instead of "neutral" ??
Can you connect it to the neutral bus or do you have to connect the white wire to the ground bus ??
Thanks for your generous consideration,
Sincerely ........................
God bless :)
You the man bro
Ha! Thank you.
Thanx for the video huge help. Question for ya. Does the Red and White matter which side goes into the breaker switch?
yes only if there are multiple red and black wires on other breakers in the panel. they would go black red black red black red ect...
is that a regular circuit breaker?
Thank you! All of your information on this video was very helpful . Is there a certain kind or type of 6/2 gauge wire I should be looking to purchase for this Outlet connection?
Will the welding unit trip the 50amp breaker if you turn it up higher than 50amps? Thanks!
No, because the welder changes its amps by altering the output voltage. It 240 supplys the welder at 50 amps then the welder is turned to 200 amps then the output voltage is actually lowered to slightly more than 50 volts. The input amps will stay proportional to the input volts.
Thanks buddy
why some people use numa 14-50 instead of this 3 wire connector?
Best vid on here of this, u should add links to all those parts thru amazon affiliate and make money every time someone buys them
Is the 50 amp breaker necessary? Can I use a 60 amp breaker instead?
More the merrier
I am getting ready to do the same for my new jointer and band saw that need 220.I bought metal outlet boxes as well to attach to the poured basement wall. I thought from my research that if using a metal box you had to ground the actual metal box by adding a green screw directly to the box. I am no electrician just a diy type and was wondering why you opted not to do that step? I want to ensure I do it right.
Metal boxes should always be grounded and not rely on self grounding screws to make the connection
I agree.keep everything grounded
It's grounded through the conduit. Alternatively you could add a lug in the box and add a green 6awg wire back to the ground bar
You did not mark the neutral as being used as ground wire.
Hi & Thanks for all your help that you offer every one.
I have a question though!
Does any one out there know how to run a USA (4 wire) x 2 Live, x 1 neutral, x 1 Earth,
220 Volt - - (120 Volt Live x2) - - off an American made Generator TO a 3 pronged
(3 wire) x 1 Live x 1 Neutral, x 1 Earth UK PLUG?
They sell Adapter Plugs on Amazon that do it for you
Hey bud, I am installing ground on the same exact outlet but instead of the white wire I have 2 shades of green. What do I do now? Please help me?
the colour of the wires is irrelevant. typically green is ground and white is neutral and black/red are the hot legs. If you have 4 wires and are installing a 6-50R receptacle (same as the video) you'll have an extra wire that you wont need.
@@TheIanmurphy Thank you very much, it turns out you are right... one of those green wires was attached to an electrical box for grounding. Later on, I measured the electrical current coming out of the outlet and it was just as it should be (240 V) Cheers!