I’m a snare who became a drum corps geek last year and I agree with you big time because all the stuff now is just hard technical bland stuff but the older performances were stylistic and entertaining
I recall seeing this amazing effect yall did in Blue Devils "95 and even in '94. George Collins refered to it as "monkey drumming" but it is where upper battery splits notes with very flashy stick heights. That was so cool.
When I saw the video title, I was expecting the meat of the video to be super gatekeepy, but honestly, you’re calling for the opposite of gatekeeping, and I’m all for it. Couldn’t agree more with the premise of your video!
My most memorable is Blue Devils 2004 when they did the accelerando and it actually sounded like a train was leaving the station and picking up speed. Cadets vocal drum break also comes to mind and gets plenty of reps to this day while I shower. Cavaliers Samurai show had a super fun drum break with a ton of cool stuff going on. While I wasn't the biggest fan of the drum break for Blue Devils 2006, the beginning of that show is extremely memorable with how they used rimshots to sound like mobsters having a gun fight. I could go on and on but lack the time. Great video by the way!
@@guywholikesheelies3231 I feel like connexus has had some great mix of memorable visuals and beefy notes. The stick toss from last year and the add in was great
I absolutely love this and wholeheartedly agree! I remember '83 Bridgemen, SCV '87, BD '97, Cadets 2000, BD '96 and '03. When I write today, I think about the audience first and foremost. What do they expect and what will entertain THEM? From there, what will challenge the players in terms of rudimental language? It doesn't have to be overly complex, but no layperson will know the difference between a five-stroke roll and a flam five. If the score is judged score, focus on dynamic expression and speed variations to show dexterity at different levels. Most of all, it must fit the music and overall concept of what the show design, be enjoyable, and ENTERTAIN! We've forgotten about the entertainment aspect all to appease the judges.
This is very true not just about breaks, but shows in general. I’m amazed at what the performers can do nowadays, and I get that there are lots of different ways to be entertaining, but I taught at Father Ryan HS drumline with some of my best friends for 30 years, and the idea was always to be memorable! It’s more important than winning. We wanted to be the show that even the bus driver wanted to see.😁 Glad I’m not the only one that sees this. I hope it shifts back the other way. I think performers can still play great stuff but also be accessible and memorable. Thanks for the video!
Great video. I couldn't agree more. We all love the big / macroscopic cool ensemble stuff. That's what sticks with you for forever. Every relative sends us all the Top Secret videos. They're onto something. The Vanguard stick on stick roll thing from 93 - you likely already know this - Scott Johnson had done this in his individuals snare solo when he was in Blue Devils as a member. Seemed "impossible" in a drumline, yet they did it. I greatly admire you coming to the US to pursue this activity. That is a huge move. We missed marching with each other by a year... :( Love your videos, Geoff!
cool, I didnt know Scott did it in a solo. maybe its on youtube somewhere? I did get told the story that they could not clean it all year, is but ACE'ed it on finals night.
@@FreestyleRudiments I marched with the snare section leader (Tony Boschini) the previous year in Freelancers. I saw him the night of semi-finals. He was so stoked because they were totally clicking / won execution that night if I remember correctly. I don't know of any footage of Scott's actual solo when he was marching, but here's some footage of him playing it a few years later as a staff member... ua-cam.com/video/EqwH5gif8g8/v-deo.html
One of the coolest things I remember was from an early 2000s show (I want to say Phantom Regiment or Cavaliers? Can't remember off the top of my head) that had a drum break that was entirely vocal. Just the entire line singing out the drum part. Really stood out in the entire show.
I remember a video of 2006 Phantom in the lot and all it was that made people go “WOOO!” At a specific passage, was a fivlet into a VERY loud rimshot. And that was it. And the buzz rolls were like butter.
you are absolutely right. every time i get sent something about drums its either top secret drum corps, jig 2 solo or a clip from drumline the movie. Every time i try to show one of my non drum corps affiliated friends a drumline part i think is cool they are always confused and sometimes even get wierded out by some metric modulation stuff.
I'm old school DCI. I was introduced in 1988 and marched from 93 until 99. I have so many fond memories of amazing productions. One of my favorites is 93" Blue Knights drum feature. I could go on for days reminiscing but 85" through 99" were amazing years for drum breaks in general.
Right so what stands out TO YOU over drum corps history? Truth is I still love to see the guys push the limits or rudimental drumming BUT what are the most memorable things you can remember?
As a relatively young viewer of this activity, (a long time before I age out) the show that I remember the most is blue devils 2014 where the players are on the stage doing a bunch of tricks like a circus performance and at the end of the break, they do a stick toss under the leg. In my opinion, as musicians we use our ears to connect with shows, more than our sight. For the general public, the visual aspect plays the most important role in the connection that drum corps = cool.
I agree with you that drumline breaks/features have gotten a bit stale over the years. I'll take it a step further: they've gotten weird because of increased complexity without enhanced musicality or even just entertainment value. Your example of the broken quintuplet stuff is great. If someone can make that sound musical, great - but so far it just sounds forced and strange. As for what I can remember: 1992 & 1995 Cavaliers shows, and 1996 Phantom Regiment's Defiant Heart show have always stood out to me. The Planets and Defiant Heart were much more cohesive and straightforward musically. They were memorable (to me, at least).
Best one I remember the most was the 1990 Velvet Knights drum solo which was done with blindfolds on, similar to the Bridgemen’s 84 Black Market Juggler.
The "Cadets Kick" was something that stuck with me back when I was 13. Even if it's a simple vis. effect, the energy is raw enough to stay with you for a long time.
Rhythm X's 2013 show was what got me really into drumline. The show was a masterful example of musical storytelling. The impact of simple and effective writing can't be overstated. Weird metric modulations are cool for sure, but they don't give you goosebumps.
Metamorph is still one of the coolest opening of a Drum Corps show ever. Downside Up from BlueCoats is a good example of a technical yet entertaining snare break.
I think you are spot on, that being said I believe your hypothesis can be applied to drumcorps in general. Problem is that non DCI corps are trying to replicate what is happening in DCI but do not have the staff nor the players to do this and therefore not being appealing to the general public anymore. As a result lower amounts of kids trying out. @freestylerudiment, remember back when you and I marched (well not together but from an era standpoint) we had multiple drumcorps in both UK and mainland Europe (and as a result European kids marching DCI), look what is left now 😢 Back on topic, fully agree that drum breaks need to get back on being appealing again and get fans on their feet again!
I like moves that are simple and effective yet clever. I got hooked on Marching Drums by watching the movie "Drumline" and have been practicing moves ever since. I'm mostly a Rock Drummer, 66 years young. Great and informative video, thanks and Peace and Love to Freestyle Rudiments!
A lot was goin on with the battery than what you see at Nats. A bunch of different cool licks at different vid angles, shown on different nights. Finals missed highlighting some of the real memorable quad and snare breaks that gave them the reputation as "The Line".
Day 3 of asking for bluecoats “pressure”. Also yes I agree with your points, sometimes simpler and clean is better than dragged out and insane. 2011 is a great example of this; Blue devils, one of the most iconic yet simple snare breaks for “The Beat My Heart Skipped”. Crown, with their awesome themed show “Rach Star” with catchy parts that stick with you. They need to bring shows like that back. Have a nice day.
Well said… on it all! Bring back creativity and flare! Cavalier’s with their head roll down the line - back in ‘00 or ‘01.. let’s spread this video to all the caption heads and percussion leaders.. thanks for this 👍🏼
Shoutout to features where drums are playing in unison with something pitched ex. vocoded snares or the Bluecoats Threshold quad feature this past season
I started following drum corps in 2019 and since then ive been following out of it except for ,paying attention to one corps, and i could never figure out why til i saw this video!
This is a WGI break but I think it has a nice blend of memorability and competitive chops. The POW 2022 snare break has this little motif, just a buzz quarter note followed by 3 eighth notes played on the left stick. It happens like twice in the pretty short snare break. It’s super simple, nothing really “oooh ahhhhhhh” about it, but it’s somehow turned into a little phrase that half of my high school band and my friends band recognizes when someone pecks it out at rehearsal. The simplicity of it makes it more digestible for a wider audience, even thought it isn’t blowing people away with its complexity. At this point so many groups are playing insane passages it’s really the ones playing some groovy simple beats that catch and keep your attention.
No doubt the activity has been pushed to showcase an insane level of talent and athleticism. But a lot of it is only appreciated by those who have seen the evolution of drum corps or have participated. Maybe a refocusing on GE and cleanliness is what is needed. I think that is what got Cavaliers the Sanford over BD in 23. From the lot, BD was it. On the field (and in the theater livecast), the Cavaliers break had people jumping out of their seats.
Dude, could not agree more. I feel like appreciation of DCI and WGI drumming has become more "exclusive" over time, where only those heavily involved in the activity can truly understand and enjoy them. We need to figure out a way to make the goal audience enjoyment, as this is a performance competition.
I completely agree, not only in the percussion but in the horn lines. Everything has become so predictable in DCI. All of the shows start the same way, they all have the same "swoopy" trombone features only to use the glissandos. the judging system needs to reward creativity so that corps don't fall into cookie cutter shows to get the scores. As for something that stuck with me, there is always ( and as a part of the BD family, I can't believe I'm saying this) Vanguard's 1984 Drum feature. One of a kind.
Very true. I’m only I 8th grade and have only been around this activity for 2 years and have loved every second of it but I kinda worry that by the time I’m out of high school and in dci, all of the music is really gonna be mathematics trying to figure out how these rhythms work with no tricks. ALSO PLEASE break down Rhythm X 2024 snare break! My school bought all of there drums and I want to play the Rhythm X snare break on the Rhythm X drums.
I agree! This is true for any musical medium. Sure, the technical stuff is memorable for us music nerds, but it flies over the head of the casual fan and gets forgotten. I believe you shouldn't sacrifice those memorable moments for technicality. That's just my opinion.
Another comment, the most memorable ones to me, 1. Metamorph stair feature with back sticks (awesome) 2. 2005(vocal and the add in ballad part) 3. Bluecoats 2016 obviously 4. Don’t remember year but I think Cavs marimba spinning around each other feature 5. Cadets 2003 grooving the F*#^ out in Malagueña feature There’s tons more, but I do agree that along with technical stuff we need something even if it’s 4 bars of appealing to the general public, I have people who don’t watch drumlines who would get so excited if we did a three way backstick, they went nutsss
I also agree. One other note: drums have a musical responsibility to work WITH the rest of the corps. Excessively complex drumming obscures the basic hits that music requires. This is part of why we remember the old stuff so fondly
Sir you mentioned all these cool things and the scv backflip cymbal fight didn’t make this ? You’re right in all regards but still surprised that didn’t get a mention
I've been in corps since 1974. Saw the bottle dance live in the 70s. Watched as Bonnie Ott and Art West and other soloists from 76, 77 BD take top honors at DCI 2 years in a row! Unheard of at that time. I watched Robby Carson and Scott Johnson play on the field, live. I felt the power of 10-12 snares creating one perfect note. I marched in VK and AK , KAC, playing cymbals. I remember Madison Scouts and their white snares. The Scouts' plates were always the shiniest on the field. Always. Oh, and Phantom Regiment and those white capes and helmets. But I digress, I believe DCI needs to keep the drums playing hard parts, 5/8, 23/16. Show those chops. Blow it up with sound.
‘94 Phantom snare split 32s down the line, 95 Crossmen 10 basses, BD whenever they do snare pods and crazy split parts, Cadets (among others) playing there bass drums on the ground and running around playing each others drums, snare lines playing on racks.
Something I look forward to when i watch 08 phantom regiment is the DL feature when theyre fighting the guard. When the tenors "lick" the stick as if it were a sword & snares getting "hit" and they raise their arms up. Idk it's a very cool detail to add and added so to it haha 2009 blue devils snare lick too
Couldn’t agree more! No one knows what is hard lol. I marched snare at the Cavaliers (2000) and McM (2001). Cadets and BD had incredible solos around that era
Well don’t forget about how your drumline performed in 2000! Have been blessed to see you multiple times (I marched Beatrix) and the best time we had was in Carolina when we had a free day and we had front row seats 45-45, man you guys where loud!!!
I don't think you are wrong. Someone mentioned it in another comment but I basically call this the "Broken City" style. Lots of over the bar line, nested tuplets, brackets... it's super hard but like you are saying here i also don't really feel a connection to it. Thankfully you really are seeing some groups do a great job of bridging the gap so to speak. Mainly I'm thinking of Bluecoats and Boston in DCI and Rhythm X and Pulse in WGI...BTW I marched with someone that you were in the Cadets quad with! Pete Antunes, easily the best quad I've ever marched with!!
In United Percussion 2022 the cymbals put their cymbals under the quads as they played rolls and it bent the pitch of the drum. Super cool effect, never seen it before/since
Having marched 91, 92, 93. And still very active with the activity. The moments that use to be created...yes it has become more of licks..and they are cool and visually different. But, yes, in the 1990s, they used to have drum features versus breaks. It's kinda sad.
This is not necessarily drum corps but Pulse this year brought both of these factors of hard music and good entertainment into play and that is why their show was so engaging this year. I get that its wgi so the entertainment still has to come just from the drum and pit so they are more creative, but I feel like they embodied this factor much more than other groups in the circuit.
Idk, my favorite in recent years has got to be Rhythm X 2023, particularly their snare break, it really brought back that 2010s ram it out feel. But generally speaking, cats like Rennick, Dave Glyde and Colin still write with their unique bent, only modifying along the lines of rudiment inclusion and note frequency. More notes = better nowadays, but to the extent that it forecloses expressiveness behind the drum I can understand the worries of longtime percussionists.
Lol one of my favorite drum breaks is half vocal (cadets 05 obviously) so theres proof that the coolest parts are remembered... not all really technical/hard parts are appreciated by generic fans which is why i loved how the 05 break had it all... also a huge sucker for hand to hand splits or gimmicky visuals like the tenor break from 99 pondo high/2000 cadets
It is almost like the books are getting too complicated for their own good. I dunno. I personally like new challenges. But I am a drum dork lol. Some of the stuff is pretty bland. Just packing in as many notes as they can.
If it’s boring to the non musicians, they will stop coming. You’ll just be playing to each other. Gimmicks can be great, they’re interesting and can be musical. Going way back to the early 80’s …I loved the Bridgeman. They never played for the judges, they played for the audience. When I saw them do Black Market Juggler and doing the blindfolded roto tom solo, it brought the house down. What’s the reason for the Corps. if not to entertain? I don’t remember who won that year but their performance has stuck with me to this day. That’s what it’s all about for me.
I wish I were a drumming geek. I play percussion professionally and and getting a degree in percussion performance, and most of the time the last thing I want to do is watch drumming videos or learn something I don't already have to learn for school.
i do think the complicated writing can be jarring or even annoying for non viewers but the crowd pleasing music doesn’t often win points. some groups do a great mix of both, for example my mom is a huge beatles fan so naturally she loved bluecoats 2019
It loses emphasis and impact when you do an elongated battery break every movement or song. There is such a thing as too many notes as well. Also something to be said about drums staying in a line for the visual aspect, the same way people still like watching the Rockettes.
I have a theory as to why it seems that way. It has to do with the musical programming of the modern day shows. I am of the same generation as you, it seems, marched 93-96 in the hornline, though, not drumline, but I have always been a tremendous percussion junkie. In any case, the most memorable snareline feature moments that stick in my memory are the most groovy features or the most musical. 94 Madison Scouts is a great example. It isn't overly technical, but damn does it groove, especially within the context of 'Malaga' as a whole. Anything from the Crossmen from 90-93. In the 70s and early 80s, the drum features were most often truly stand-alone tunes where it started and ended without the brass playing a lick of it. If you go back and watch so of the videos from era, often times the drum majors wouldn't even conduct during the drum features, they were fully a percussion section on their own. And throughout the rest of the show, the drumline was relegated pretty much to a supportive musical role. The lines that really grooved in that era, Vanguard, Bridgemen, Spirit of Atlanta, Blue Devils, 27th Lancers and Suncoast Sound excelled at ramming so many notes in as musical a style as was possible because the tunes were stand-alone (ie Black Market Juggler from 83 Bridgemen). The proportion of the show that the drumline played alone was relatively small. Two notable exceptions to that were the drum break in the 1974 Vanguard's 'Young Person's Guide' and 1976's Channel One Suite for BD where they were so clearly musically integrated, showing what would become normal in the 80s. In the late 80s and 90s, the drum features became much more integrated into the musical numbers as a whole so the drum features had to be written in such a way as to make musical sense. As an example, if you look at those Cadets' lines of the late 80s, they didn't have much of a percussion feature at all in 87 or 88, some, but very minor. And even that epic 1989 Cadets feature was mainly interspersed with the brass much of the time. The amount of time that the drumline played strictly by itself was even less than the early 80s. As such, when they DID have what you would call a feature, it really relied on having great GE moments but they had to fit into the musical groove, so to speak, hence the 'COOL!' moments of back-sticking, drum to drum, etc. To my mind, the kings and queens of groove in the late 80s and 90s were Madison and Crossmen. They could lay down such wonderfully groovy stuff. In the 2000s, the musical programming of corps in general because much more, I guess disjointed is the best word for it. Also, the introduction of much more original music shows from the Cavaliers in the early 00s leant itself to pushing the percussion section much more to the front. There is much less in a coherent flow to the music, there is 30 seconds of this song transitioning to 15 seconds of this, then 45 seconds of this theme, etc. Added to this is the fact that as a proportion of the total show time, the percussion is playing alone a LOT more these days. As such, there is less pressure for the 'drum feature' to be flashy because there are just so many more drum features. And since there is so much more feature time, there seems to be an emphasis on highly technical meat for the drummers than an emphasis on fitting into the overall musical groove of a piece of music that might make up a full 3 or 4 minutes of the show. Another aspect to consider is the rise in the importance of WGI drumlines since the late 90s. Show writers are completely comfortable writing multi-minute shows with ONLY percussion to work with, so there is pressure to incorporate more percussion only moments into drum corps shows. More moments for the drumline to shine seems to mean that they have more opportunity to have a more technical drumming feature than GE-memorable drumming feature. Just my thoughts. When did you teach at Bluecoats?
@@FreestyleRudiments Alright. I marched Bloo in 94 and 96. Railmen from Omaha the other two years. Quite a few folks who were rookies in 96 were still there in 99 and 00. Kevin Stahl, Brian Ecton, Kee Vance, etc.
to make it less boring for the "average" non drum corps person, search youtube and google for "best drumline" "coolest drumline", "amazing drummers" etc.. Whatever videos have the most watches and shares are likely containing something that connects with the average person.
Nailed it. It's always been an echo chamber, but at least it was palatable to the general public BITD, now? It's gotten to much in the weeds, I and others like yourself get it and appreciate it, but the general public can't connect to it anymore because it's beyond their comprehension. Too complex. I think it's why the Cavies 2023 drumline got so much hype.
@ perhaps. Btw, another example is your tenor line BD 95, the Caribe Tenor feature. For those who don’t recall, it preceded by giant toms played by a 9 man snare line. They play a cool triplet syncopation phrase followed by the tenor feature. Weren’t you 16 at the time? Love to hear a vid on your journey to BD at young age? Thx for your channel.
Good topic and great comments. Agree! DCI has become very self-absorbed! "Old skool" mature musicianship, groove, ballsy ensemble blowing and entertainment have often been sacrificed to "symbolism over substance," preaching messages of the self-righteous woke, and useless visuals. Isolated complicated phrases and rhythmic figures are there ONLY to satisfy the egos of the arrangers (especially when there is no contrasting material). In reality, this only shows arranging immaturity, and sadly, an arrogant contempt for audiences. A perfect recipe for extinction.
agreed.. I even watch high school drumlines like ayala and chino hills and think 'why aren't they doing cool stuff'? It's because the whole thing is becoming stale..... we need showmanship and GE to carry us into the future....
lol, I actually "get" what they are all about now. Straight out of elite drum corps you have virtual blinkers on, it takes a while and a lot of new experiences to realise, Lines like Top Secret play "bigger" and many more shows than most if not all drumcorps, instead of paying to march they get paid and they make videos and shows that the average person loves!
Interpretive dance accents visual with drum licks standing on riser props seems is the norm now …not so much drilling or some innovated ideas ( like adding Spock to snare or sfx) or just monster chop grooving( 91-92 cross men comes to mind.) indoor marching art influenced DCI direction shifted to more of stage production with elements of sound/audio electronics sampling microphones strings and oddly no bugles favoring Bb horns
100% agree. Drum corps music in general is so stuck up it's own ass its just noise to the uninitiated. And from my limited experience, that comes from a culture of people that are also stuck up their own asses. So it's not really a surprise. DCI will be a nearly dead scene in our lifetime. Count on it.
As my son is getting into indoor and has aspirations of Bluecoats or Crown next year, I've been seeing the awful technique that is going around. Huge gaps between thumb and forefinger, and the weaker sound that follows. What we would have called "pussy tapping" is at an all-time high due to the technique change and its more like chucking the stick at the drum to play the faster licks that we used to spend years creating machine gun rolls and building real chops. The uniforms don't look like their respective corps much at all and are terrifyingly expensive spandex. Now it's more jazz running than marching. The change didn't help attendance at all. Especially from the general public. General effect is fine but I was just at the SW High School Marching Championship and only 2 schools had quads and only one marched them. Over half of the lines were static. But 5 basses and 7 snares with no tenors? And some of these schools have good money. Has anyone else been noticing these things recently? I'd love to discuss I have full schools asking if they are losing their marching lines soon.
I do see where you're talking about. Drum beaks are now becoming more of technical and chop heavy instead of visually appealing and just overall cool looking Any chance you can break down the Bluecoats snare break from this year? Or the hi-mom split snare feature from wgi last year?
You nailed it. No one remembers the hardest lick. Everyone remembers the cool parts.
Idk man that Rhythm X 2023 break was easily the hardest break I’ve ever tried playing and I think it’s one of the coolest breaks out there
Yep - the cool overall ensemble sounds / features are what everyone remembers.
I’m a snare who became a drum corps geek last year and I agree with you big time because all the stuff now is just hard technical bland stuff but the older performances were stylistic and entertaining
That top secret thing is so real hahaha
Top Secret and those 5 lads in kilts!!
I recall seeing this amazing effect yall did in Blue Devils "95 and even in '94. George Collins refered to it as "monkey drumming" but it is where upper battery splits notes with very flashy stick heights. That was so cool.
yea I also saw BD 94 debut that. My first DCI experience, so simple but SO COOL to watch
BD did a version of it in 2024 as well but it was not a drum break or anything.
This needs to be sent to every writer in each corps.
When I saw the video title, I was expecting the meat of the video to be super gatekeepy, but honestly, you’re calling for the opposite of gatekeeping, and I’m all for it.
Couldn’t agree more with the premise of your video!
My most memorable is Blue Devils 2004 when they did the accelerando and it actually sounded like a train was leaving the station and picking up speed. Cadets vocal drum break also comes to mind and gets plenty of reps to this day while I shower. Cavaliers Samurai show had a super fun drum break with a ton of cool stuff going on. While I wasn't the biggest fan of the drum break for Blue Devils 2006, the beginning of that show is extremely memorable with how they used rimshots to sound like mobsters having a gun fight. I could go on and on but lack the time. Great video by the way!
My favorite feature is Blue Devils 2014, i think it was a cool mox of visuals and some beefy notes. The stage on the field made it pop visually
For indoor Connexus with that roll a couple years back with the squat was gnarly
@@guywholikesheelies3231 I feel like connexus has had some great mix of memorable visuals and beefy notes. The stick toss from last year and the add in was great
2015 for me
Thanks man
Thanks dude
I absolutely love this and wholeheartedly agree! I remember '83 Bridgemen, SCV '87, BD '97, Cadets 2000, BD '96 and '03.
When I write today, I think about the audience first and foremost. What do they expect and what will entertain THEM? From there, what will challenge the players in terms of rudimental language? It doesn't have to be overly complex, but no layperson will know the difference between a five-stroke roll and a flam five. If the score is judged score, focus on dynamic expression and speed variations to show dexterity at different levels. Most of all, it must fit the music and overall concept of what the show design, be enjoyable, and ENTERTAIN! We've forgotten about the entertainment aspect all to appease the judges.
maybe DCI needs a VK corps to lead the way
VK needs to return
This is very true not just about breaks, but shows in general. I’m amazed at what the performers can do nowadays, and I get that there are lots of different ways to be entertaining, but I taught at Father Ryan HS drumline with some of my best friends for 30 years, and the idea was always to be memorable! It’s more important than winning. We wanted to be the show that even the bus driver wanted to see.😁 Glad I’m not the only one that sees this. I hope it shifts back the other way. I think performers can still play great stuff but also be accessible and memorable. Thanks for the video!
4:29 Hit the nail on the head
One of the most amazing things I've ever seen live was the 2006 Blue Devils fake/ghost note segment
Great video. I couldn't agree more.
We all love the big / macroscopic cool ensemble stuff. That's what sticks with you for forever. Every relative sends us all the Top Secret videos. They're onto something.
The Vanguard stick on stick roll thing from 93 - you likely already know this - Scott Johnson had done this in his individuals snare solo when he was in Blue Devils as a member. Seemed "impossible" in a drumline, yet they did it.
I greatly admire you coming to the US to pursue this activity. That is a huge move. We missed marching with each other by a year... :(
Love your videos, Geoff!
cool, I didnt know Scott did it in a solo. maybe its on youtube somewhere? I did get told the story that they could not clean it all year, is but ACE'ed it on finals night.
@@FreestyleRudiments I marched with the snare section leader (Tony Boschini) the previous year in Freelancers. I saw him the night of semi-finals. He was so stoked because they were totally clicking / won execution that night if I remember correctly.
I don't know of any footage of Scott's actual solo when he was marching, but here's some footage of him playing it a few years later as a staff member...
ua-cam.com/video/EqwH5gif8g8/v-deo.html
def agree. i miss when breaks were the perfect mix of visuals and chops. like blue devils 2022 with the sweeps across the snares that was sick
Aludes to "missing the ol days" and then brings up 2022 as an example 😂
One of the coolest things I remember was from an early 2000s show (I want to say Phantom Regiment or Cavaliers? Can't remember off the top of my head) that had a drum break that was entirely vocal. Just the entire line singing out the drum part. Really stood out in the entire show.
Cadets 05
I remember a video of 2006 Phantom in the lot and all it was that made people go “WOOO!” At a specific passage, was a fivlet into a VERY loud rimshot. And that was it. And the buzz rolls were like butter.
I tried out for the Canton BlueCoats back in 96. The breaks in that era from them, The Devils, Regiment, and SCV were my favorite.
you are absolutely right. every time i get sent something about drums its either top secret drum corps, jig 2 solo or a clip from drumline the movie. Every time i try to show one of my non drum corps affiliated friends a drumline part i think is cool they are always confused and sometimes even get wierded out by some metric modulation stuff.
I'm old school DCI. I was introduced in 1988 and marched from 93 until 99. I have so many fond memories of amazing productions. One of my favorites is 93" Blue Knights drum feature. I could go on for days reminiscing but 85" through 99" were amazing years for drum breaks in general.
The “Little Green Men” BK 93 drum solo was hot fire.
@Luckyjasondrum That's it!
That solo also went on for days 😂
Havin two tenor lines on reefed up Premiers just made it way cooler
Completely agree, I can't follow any of the new stuff. Things have gotten so expensive now too, so that definitely doesn't help.
Right so what stands out TO YOU over drum corps history? Truth is I still love to see the guys push the limits or rudimental drumming BUT what are the most memorable things you can remember?
As a relatively young viewer of this activity, (a long time before I age out) the show that I remember the most is blue devils 2014 where the players are on the stage doing a bunch of tricks like a circus performance and at the end of the break, they do a stick toss under the leg. In my opinion, as musicians we use our ears to connect with shows, more than our sight. For the general public, the visual aspect plays the most important role in the connection that drum corps = cool.
I agree with you that drumline breaks/features have gotten a bit stale over the years. I'll take it a step further: they've gotten weird because of increased complexity without enhanced musicality or even just entertainment value. Your example of the broken quintuplet stuff is great. If someone can make that sound musical, great - but so far it just sounds forced and strange. As for what I can remember: 1992 & 1995 Cavaliers shows, and 1996 Phantom Regiment's Defiant Heart show have always stood out to me. The Planets and Defiant Heart were much more cohesive and straightforward musically. They were memorable (to me, at least).
Best one I remember the most was the 1990 Velvet Knights drum solo which was done with blindfolds on, similar to the Bridgemen’s 84 Black Market Juggler.
Boston 22
The "Cadets Kick" was something that stuck with me back when I was 13. Even if it's a simple vis. effect, the energy is raw enough to stay with you for a long time.
Cadets 2000 drum feature will live rent-free in my head, note-for-note, until I die 😍
Rhythm X's 2013 show was what got me really into drumline. The show was a masterful example of musical storytelling. The impact of simple and effective writing can't be overstated. Weird metric modulations are cool for sure, but they don't give you goosebumps.
Watchin a show in person and seeing a group setup dragging racks on wheels, just made coming to the stadium worthwhile 😎
Metamorph is still one of the coolest opening of a Drum Corps show ever. Downside Up from BlueCoats is a good example of a technical yet entertaining snare break.
I think you are spot on, that being said I believe your hypothesis can be applied to drumcorps in general. Problem is that non DCI corps are trying to replicate what is happening in DCI but do not have the staff nor the players to do this and therefore not being appealing to the general public anymore. As a result lower amounts of kids trying out. @freestylerudiment, remember back when you and I marched (well not together but from an era standpoint) we had multiple drumcorps in both UK and mainland Europe (and as a result European kids marching DCI), look what is left now 😢
Back on topic, fully agree that drum breaks need to get back on being appealing again and get fans on their feet again!
I can’t say thank you enough for bringing this up
I like moves that are simple and effective yet clever. I got hooked on Marching Drums by watching the movie "Drumline" and have been practicing moves ever since. I'm mostly a Rock Drummer, 66 years young. Great and informative video, thanks and Peace and Love to Freestyle Rudiments!
my favorite break is bluecoats 2014, definitely not too difficult, and it sounded good and looked great, ill never forget the snare split
Spot on, the ones that stick in my mind BD 1986 channel one, Crossmen 1992
A lot was goin on with the battery than what you see at Nats. A bunch of different cool licks at different vid angles, shown on different nights. Finals missed highlighting some of the real memorable quad and snare breaks that gave them the reputation as "The Line".
I remember the cavaliers turning the quads upside down, that was sick
Day 3 of asking for bluecoats “pressure”. Also yes I agree with your points, sometimes simpler and clean is better than dragged out and insane. 2011 is a great example of this; Blue devils, one of the most iconic yet simple snare breaks for “The Beat My Heart Skipped”. Crown, with their awesome themed show “Rach Star” with catchy parts that stick with you. They need to bring shows like that back. Have a nice day.
drive.google.com/file/d/1sIelJojKAbE4yiI1Fd1zNEeJv8Vwp_Lp
For sure agree i wouldnt have wanted to march if it werent for cavaliers 2023 also u should do cavs 95🙏
Well said… on it all! Bring back creativity and flare! Cavalier’s with their head roll down the line - back in ‘00 or ‘01.. let’s spread this video to all the caption heads and percussion leaders.. thanks for this 👍🏼
Shoutout to features where drums are playing in unison with something pitched ex. vocoded snares or the Bluecoats Threshold quad feature this past season
I started following drum corps in 2019 and since then ive been following out of it except for ,paying attention to one corps, and i could never figure out why til i saw this video!
This is a WGI break but I think it has a nice blend of memorability and competitive chops. The POW 2022 snare break has this little motif, just a buzz quarter note followed by 3 eighth notes played on the left stick. It happens like twice in the pretty short snare break. It’s super simple, nothing really “oooh ahhhhhhh” about it, but it’s somehow turned into a little phrase that half of my high school band and my friends band recognizes when someone pecks it out at rehearsal. The simplicity of it makes it more digestible for a wider audience, even thought it isn’t blowing people away with its complexity. At this point so many groups are playing insane passages it’s really the ones playing some groovy simple beats that catch and keep your attention.
Cavaliers 2008, that’s samurai drum break was super simple with a lot of rim clicks and visuals. So sick
No doubt the activity has been pushed to showcase an insane level of talent and athleticism. But a lot of it is only appreciated by those who have seen the evolution of drum corps or have participated.
Maybe a refocusing on GE and cleanliness is what is needed. I think that is what got Cavaliers the Sanford over BD in 23. From the lot, BD was it. On the field (and in the theater livecast), the Cavaliers break had people jumping out of their seats.
Dude, could not agree more. I feel like appreciation of DCI and WGI drumming has become more "exclusive" over time, where only those heavily involved in the activity can truly understand and enjoy them. We need to figure out a way to make the goal audience enjoyment, as this is a performance competition.
I completely agree, not only in the percussion but in the horn lines. Everything has become so predictable in DCI. All of the shows start the same way, they all have the same "swoopy" trombone features only to use the glissandos. the judging system needs to reward creativity so that corps don't fall into cookie cutter shows to get the scores. As for something that stuck with me, there is always ( and as a part of the BD family, I can't believe I'm saying this) Vanguard's 1984 Drum feature. One of a kind.
I agree. I love something I have never seen b4 that makes me want try and replicate. That to me is why I love drum corp.
Very true. I’m only I 8th grade and have only been around this activity for 2 years and have loved every second of it but I kinda worry that by the time I’m out of high school and in dci, all of the music is really gonna be mathematics trying to figure out how these rhythms work with no tricks. ALSO PLEASE break down Rhythm X 2024 snare break! My school bought all of there drums and I want to play the Rhythm X snare break on the Rhythm X drums.
I agree! This is true for any musical medium. Sure, the technical stuff is memorable for us music nerds, but it flies over the head of the casual fan and gets forgotten. I believe you shouldn't sacrifice those memorable moments for technicality. That's just my opinion.
Another comment, the most memorable ones to me,
1. Metamorph stair feature with back sticks (awesome)
2. 2005(vocal and the add in ballad part)
3. Bluecoats 2016 obviously
4. Don’t remember year but I think Cavs marimba spinning around each other feature
5. Cadets 2003 grooving the F*#^ out in Malagueña feature
There’s tons more, but I do agree that along with technical stuff we need something even if it’s 4 bars of appealing to the general public, I have people who don’t watch drumlines who would get so excited if we did a three way backstick, they went nutsss
I also agree. One other note: drums have a musical responsibility to work WITH the rest of the corps. Excessively complex drumming obscures the basic hits that music requires. This is part of why we remember the old stuff so fondly
Sir you mentioned all these cool things and the scv backflip cymbal fight didn’t make this ? You’re right in all regards but still surprised that didn’t get a mention
I've been in corps since 1974. Saw the bottle dance live in the 70s. Watched as Bonnie Ott and Art West and other soloists from 76, 77 BD take top honors at DCI 2 years in a row! Unheard of at that time. I watched Robby Carson and Scott Johnson play on the field, live. I felt the power of 10-12 snares creating one perfect note. I marched in VK and AK , KAC, playing cymbals. I remember Madison Scouts and their white snares. The Scouts' plates were always the shiniest on the field. Always. Oh, and Phantom Regiment and those white capes and helmets. But I digress, I believe DCI needs to keep the drums playing hard parts, 5/8, 23/16. Show those chops. Blow it up with sound.
2008 BD spinning bass solo
2001 cavies snare solo is a fav with the split cymbals on the snare
Phantom Regiment 1989/ 1990 had me hooked as a kid. I thought the visual was cool.
Also, the fake sticking in 1987 Phantom. It just looked cool.
‘94 Phantom snare split 32s down the line, 95 Crossmen 10 basses, BD whenever they do snare pods and crazy split parts, Cadets (among others) playing there bass drums on the ground and running around playing each others drums, snare lines playing on racks.
Something I look forward to when i watch 08 phantom regiment is the DL feature when theyre fighting the guard. When the tenors "lick" the stick as if it were a sword & snares getting "hit" and they raise their arms up. Idk it's a very cool detail to add and added so to it haha
2009 blue devils snare lick too
Agreed - Although I believe you can still have cutting edge book with commercial instinct.
cavaliers 2002 frameworks. I was there and saw it live. Shows like that are what they need to bring back. Also 01 cavies four corners is a banger.
Couldn’t agree more! No one knows what is hard lol. I marched snare at the Cavaliers (2000) and McM (2001). Cadets and BD had incredible solos around that era
Well don’t forget about how your drumline performed in 2000! Have been blessed to see you multiple times (I marched Beatrix) and the best time we had was in Carolina when we had a free day and we had front row seats 45-45, man you guys where loud!!!
As a trumpet player, the plexiglass feature bd did was soo sick to me
Being apart of both DCI and HBCU Drumline worlds, you’re 1,000% correct
Now you know he is only referencing drum corps and DCI. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE HE HAS SEEN ANYTHING SHOWSTYLE LIKE HBCU?
I don't think you are wrong. Someone mentioned it in another comment but I basically call this the "Broken City" style. Lots of over the bar line, nested tuplets, brackets... it's super hard but like you are saying here i also don't really feel a connection to it. Thankfully you really are seeing some groups do a great job of bridging the gap so to speak. Mainly I'm thinking of Bluecoats and Boston in DCI and Rhythm X and Pulse in WGI...BTW I marched with someone that you were in the Cadets quad with! Pete Antunes, easily the best quad I've ever marched with!!
Cool, Pete’s at legend and great kit player. Say hi
@FreestyleRudiments he's the drummer for Tower of Power now!
In United Percussion 2022 the cymbals put their cymbals under the quads as they played rolls and it bent the pitch of the drum. Super cool effect, never seen it before/since
ive not seen this will take a look, stick a youtube link here is anyone finds it!!
Bluecoats tilt with the 16 note split will always stick with me 🙏🏽
Having marched 91, 92, 93. And still very active with the activity.
The moments that use to be created...yes it has become more of licks..and they are cool and visually different.
But, yes, in the 1990s, they used to have drum features versus breaks.
It's kinda sad.
Bluecoats tilt was cool
2:14 average broken city break
And current Carolina crown 💔
Not anymore...@@Ilovelucki-p5h
Was just about to comment this lol
For the algorithm. ✊
thanks
This is not necessarily drum corps but Pulse this year brought both of these factors of hard music and good entertainment into play and that is why their show was so engaging this year. I get that its wgi so the entertainment still has to come just from the drum and pit so they are more creative, but I feel like they embodied this factor much more than other groups in the circuit.
Idk, my favorite in recent years has got to be Rhythm X 2023, particularly their snare break, it really brought back that 2010s ram it out feel. But generally speaking, cats like Rennick, Dave Glyde and Colin still write with their unique bent, only modifying along the lines of rudiment inclusion and note frequency. More notes = better nowadays, but to the extent that it forecloses expressiveness behind the drum I can understand the worries of longtime percussionists.
Lol one of my favorite drum breaks is half vocal (cadets 05 obviously) so theres proof that the coolest parts are remembered... not all really technical/hard parts are appreciated by generic fans which is why i loved how the 05 break had it all... also a huge sucker for hand to hand splits or gimmicky visuals like the tenor break from 99 pondo high/2000 cadets
1997 Glassmen with the flam lick that morphs hands. Not super difficult, but tasty and memorable.
What year with Coats you tour?
In the dark ages…. 1999 and 2000, then I left drum corps for 20 years to persue drum kit
You’re right sir
This is so true.
Nailed it
It is almost like the books are getting too complicated for their own good. I dunno. I personally like new challenges. But I am a drum dork lol. Some of the stuff is pretty bland. Just packing in as many notes as they can.
If it’s boring to the non musicians, they will stop coming. You’ll just be playing to each other.
Gimmicks can be great, they’re interesting and can be musical.
Going way back to the early 80’s …I loved the Bridgeman. They never played for the judges, they played for the audience. When I saw them do Black Market Juggler and doing the blindfolded roto tom solo, it brought the house down. What’s the reason for the Corps. if not to entertain? I don’t remember who won that year but their performance has stuck with me to this day. That’s what it’s all about for me.
I wish I were a drumming geek. I play percussion professionally and and getting a degree in percussion performance, and most of the time the last thing I want to do is watch drumming videos or learn something I don't already have to learn for school.
2:08 every broken city snare break
You're not wrong .. and check out '87 & '88 Bluecoats .. drum-to-drum that the crowd went nuts over .. every show ..
And that was with 30 snares on the field.
i do think the complicated writing can be jarring or even annoying for non viewers but the crowd pleasing music doesn’t often win points. some groups do a great mix of both, for example my mom is a huge beatles fan so naturally she loved bluecoats 2019
It loses emphasis and impact when you do an elongated battery break every movement or song. There is such a thing as too many notes as well. Also something to be said about drums staying in a line for the visual aspect, the same way people still like watching the Rockettes.
anytime i feel like they get boring, i watch a mike jackson snare break and feel better
The best snare breaks are the ones you can sing without doing actual drums peak and it’s still recognizable
I have a theory as to why it seems that way. It has to do with the musical programming of the modern day shows. I am of the same generation as you, it seems, marched 93-96 in the hornline, though, not drumline, but I have always been a tremendous percussion junkie. In any case, the most memorable snareline feature moments that stick in my memory are the most groovy features or the most musical. 94 Madison Scouts is a great example. It isn't overly technical, but damn does it groove, especially within the context of 'Malaga' as a whole. Anything from the Crossmen from 90-93. In the 70s and early 80s, the drum features were most often truly stand-alone tunes where it started and ended without the brass playing a lick of it. If you go back and watch so of the videos from era, often times the drum majors wouldn't even conduct during the drum features, they were fully a percussion section on their own. And throughout the rest of the show, the drumline was relegated pretty much to a supportive musical role. The lines that really grooved in that era, Vanguard, Bridgemen, Spirit of Atlanta, Blue Devils, 27th Lancers and Suncoast Sound excelled at ramming so many notes in as musical a style as was possible because the tunes were stand-alone (ie Black Market Juggler from 83 Bridgemen). The proportion of the show that the drumline played alone was relatively small. Two notable exceptions to that were the drum break in the 1974 Vanguard's 'Young Person's Guide' and 1976's Channel One Suite for BD where they were so clearly musically integrated, showing what would become normal in the 80s. In the late 80s and 90s, the drum features became much more integrated into the musical numbers as a whole so the drum features had to be written in such a way as to make musical sense. As an example, if you look at those Cadets' lines of the late 80s, they didn't have much of a percussion feature at all in 87 or 88, some, but very minor. And even that epic 1989 Cadets feature was mainly interspersed with the brass much of the time. The amount of time that the drumline played strictly by itself was even less than the early 80s. As such, when they DID have what you would call a feature, it really relied on having great GE moments but they had to fit into the musical groove, so to speak, hence the 'COOL!' moments of back-sticking, drum to drum, etc. To my mind, the kings and queens of groove in the late 80s and 90s were Madison and Crossmen. They could lay down such wonderfully groovy stuff. In the 2000s, the musical programming of corps in general because much more, I guess disjointed is the best word for it. Also, the introduction of much more original music shows from the Cavaliers in the early 00s leant itself to pushing the percussion section much more to the front. There is much less in a coherent flow to the music, there is 30 seconds of this song transitioning to 15 seconds of this, then 45 seconds of this theme, etc. Added to this is the fact that as a proportion of the total show time, the percussion is playing alone a LOT more these days. As such, there is less pressure for the 'drum feature' to be flashy because there are just so many more drum features. And since there is so much more feature time, there seems to be an emphasis on highly technical meat for the drummers than an emphasis on fitting into the overall musical groove of a piece of music that might make up a full 3 or 4 minutes of the show. Another aspect to consider is the rise in the importance of WGI drumlines since the late 90s. Show writers are completely comfortable writing multi-minute shows with ONLY percussion to work with, so there is pressure to incorporate more percussion only moments into drum corps shows. More moments for the drumline to shine seems to mean that they have more opportunity to have a more technical drumming feature than GE-memorable drumming feature. Just my thoughts. When did you teach at Bluecoats?
great points! I taught Bluecoats in the "dark ages" lol 1999, 2000
@@FreestyleRudiments Alright. I marched Bloo in 94 and 96. Railmen from Omaha the other two years. Quite a few folks who were rookies in 96 were still there in 99 and 00. Kevin Stahl, Brian Ecton, Kee Vance, etc.
So if I’m writing for a line and want a snare feature, is there anything I can do as a writer to be “less boring”?
to make it less boring for the "average" non drum corps person, search youtube and google for "best drumline" "coolest drumline", "amazing drummers" etc.. Whatever videos have the most watches and shares are likely containing something that connects with the average person.
I started feeling the same way around 2017...
also... will your app ever be on the Google play store?
I wish it was easier to get a healthy mix of fun and nerdy to appeal to both kinds of audiences
what years did he march?
95 97 👍
Nailed it. It's always been an echo chamber, but at least it was palatable to the general public BITD, now? It's gotten to much in the weeds, I and others like yourself get it and appreciate it, but the general public can't connect to it anymore because it's beyond their comprehension. Too complex. I think it's why the Cavies 2023 drumline got so much hype.
Cavies did seem a throw back, but they also won drums so maybe some of the judges or inner circle rule makers also agree?
@ perhaps. Btw, another example is your tenor line BD 95, the Caribe Tenor feature. For those who don’t recall, it preceded by giant toms played by a 9 man snare line. They play a cool triplet syncopation phrase followed by the tenor feature.
Weren’t you 16 at the time? Love to hear a vid on your journey to BD at young age? Thx for your channel.
Snare breaks all sound like lawn mower engines stalling in and out, sputtering black smoke on first crank in springtime.
Good topic and great comments. Agree! DCI has become very self-absorbed! "Old skool" mature musicianship, groove, ballsy ensemble blowing and entertainment have often been sacrificed to "symbolism over substance," preaching messages of the self-righteous woke, and useless visuals. Isolated complicated phrases and rhythmic figures are there ONLY to satisfy the egos of the arrangers (especially when there is no contrasting material). In reality, this only shows arranging immaturity, and sadly, an arrogant contempt for audiences. A perfect recipe for extinction.
agreed.. I even watch high school drumlines like ayala and chino hills and think 'why aren't they doing cool stuff'? It's because the whole thing is becoming stale..... we need showmanship and GE to carry us into the future....
The top secret slander 😆
lol, I actually "get" what they are all about now. Straight out of elite drum corps you have virtual blinkers on, it takes a while and a lot of new experiences to realise, Lines like Top Secret play "bigger" and many more shows than most if not all drumcorps, instead of paying to march they get paid and they make videos and shows that the average person loves!
Interpretive dance accents visual with drum licks standing on riser props seems is the norm now …not so much drilling or some innovated ideas ( like adding Spock to snare or sfx) or just monster chop grooving( 91-92 cross men comes to mind.) indoor marching art influenced DCI direction shifted to more of stage production with elements of sound/audio electronics sampling microphones strings and oddly no bugles favoring Bb horns
100% agree. Drum corps music in general is so stuck up it's own ass its just noise to the uninitiated.
And from my limited experience, that comes from a culture of people that are also stuck up their own asses. So it's not really a surprise. DCI will be a nearly dead scene in our lifetime. Count on it.
As my son is getting into indoor and has aspirations of Bluecoats or Crown next year, I've been seeing the awful technique that is going around. Huge gaps between thumb and forefinger, and the weaker sound that follows. What we would have called "pussy tapping" is at an all-time high due to the technique change and its more like chucking the stick at the drum to play the faster licks that we used to spend years creating machine gun rolls and building real chops. The uniforms don't look like their respective corps much at all and are terrifyingly expensive spandex. Now it's more jazz running than marching. The change didn't help attendance at all. Especially from the general public. General effect is fine but I was just at the SW High School Marching Championship and only 2 schools had quads and only one marched them. Over half of the lines were static. But 5 basses and 7 snares with no tenors? And some of these schools have good money. Has anyone else been noticing these things recently? I'd love to discuss I have full schools asking if they are losing their marching lines soon.
BRING BACK THE RACKS
I do see where you're talking about. Drum beaks are now becoming more of technical and chop heavy instead of visually appealing and just overall cool looking
Any chance you can break down the Bluecoats snare break from this year? Or the hi-mom split snare feature from wgi last year?
Straight facts
carolina crown 2024 drumline was weird
Soooooo true
DCI peaked in the early 2000s.
Yep then GH started rallying for rule changes