Bad Units Tier List Continued (ft Mythril Zenith)
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Thanks to @MythrilZenith for joining me in my magnum opus: a bad unit tier list. This is what it has all been building up to.
Or maybe it hasn't idk this youtube channel is chaotic like that don't forget to subscribe.
Part 1 is here: • Who Is the WORST UNIT ...
Timestamps:
0:12 Lindon (Engage)
4:38 Donnel (Awakening)
11:13 Gwendolyn (Binding Blade)
14:13 Meg (Radiant Dawn)
17:04 Sothe (Path of Radiance)
24:08 Anna (Three Houses)
26:01 Wolf (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light)
28:36 Marisa (Sacred Stones)
32:45 Amid (Genealogy of the Holy War)
34:36 Lyre (Radiant Dawn)
37:18 Jesse (Echoes: Shadows of Valentia)
38:38 Marth (Shadow Dragon)
40:37 Cath (Binding Blade)
43:08 Wrys (Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light)
45:38 Virion (Awakening)
49:21 Elincia (Path of Radiance)
50:33 L'Arachel (Sacred Stones)
52:42 Mercedes (Three Houses)
58:01 Johalvier (Genealogy of the Holy War)
59:52 Lapis (Engage)
"He (Donnel) doesn't offer anything that they don't"
Donnel is the only character with a pot on his head. Kid came prepared to concuss himself into greatness.
the biggest problem with Donnel is that he’s a growth unit in Awakening, where Robin is maybe the best growth unit of all time
And he has lower stat caps than most units.
@@enymetouche2558and limited class access, but we still love him for it.
Donnel's a really weird unit in that he has a weak start, a COMPARATIVELY weak finish (i.e. his "maxed out" potential is pretty low by Awakening standards), but a stellar in-between thanks to his growth rates.
@@topazlight1586 yeah the issue is just. It’s awakening and you can train anyone.
Here's something to put Lyre's awful stats into comparison.
Lyre has 7 str, x2 when transformed, and A rank cat fang has 8mt, so 22mt overall
You know who else joins with 22mt at base stats?
MIST WITH FLORETE, WHO YOU GOT 4 CHAPTERS EARLIER, HAS 1-2 RANGE, HEALS, AND HAS CRIT, and even with all that Mist's combat potential is still essentially non-existent
Lyre has to deal with that same base level of combat but locked to 1 range and cat gauge, just awful
Worst unit in the game by far
One thing I do love about Lapis is that she's so mid that she's basically the gatekeeper of being a good combat unit
The lapis test 😌
Lindon is actually really slept on. It's easy to get distracted by weapon insight (which is cool and useful) but the truth is, he's actually one of the better sages in the game.
Bolganone has +5 Mt over Elfire, and Lindon has the build to use Bolganone with 1 slowdown immediatly, 0 after a couple level ups.
Looking at characters that would make viable sages at level 30, Pandreo and Merrin are the only ones that can match him in both speed and power simultaneously. Merrin can't become a sage until late game. Pandreo is just ludicrously good and easily the best sage in the game.
Citrinne is extremely slow with low build. Anna can almost match Lindon's speed by using Elfire while maintaining a power advantage, but she'd lose a lot of speed with Bolganone. Citrinne is super slow. Clanne is very weak, and his low build makes him slower than Lindon while using Bolganone. Framme suffers from low build slowing her down.
On top of that, Lindon has staff proficiency, so he can entrap and fortify as a sage, which most others can't. And his defense and HP are better than most viable sages as well.
And of course, Lindon has a lot of fun builds that take advantage of weapon insight as well. I'm especially fond of making him a Sniper with Lyn, and a Radiant Bow with Sacred Engraving. He'll be able to 1 shot any flier until the last chapter naturally, can astra storm kill any flier from almost anywhere on the map, and have about a 75% chance to get at least 1 crit against any enemy he doubles. He's useless on enemy phase, and crit bait, so he can't safely attack enemies that can hit back. Definitely not an S tier build, but he's a specialist that does a few things very well that is worth considering for many armies.
The real poor comparison for Donnel, funnily enough, is Vaike. Vaike joins earlier, has hand axe access, gets HP +5 on his way to Hero rather than the mediocre mercenary skills, and actually has sufficient base stats to not be a liability before he becomes an enemy phase juggernaut. Gregor does the same thing with the advantage of being level 10 immediately but joining a bit later. I love him because he's extremely funny, and emblematic (ha) of what makes Awakening fun, but he's solidly outclassed in a lot of different ways.
FE11 and FE12 Marth portraits are actually pretty distinct for whatever reason
I actually noticed this like 3 days after we recorded haha. Oh well, its in the video now 🤣😭
very late but this is probably because fe3 also had distinct portraits for both versions of marth and they were being faithful
Kyza's entire gender situation is a little weird, I don't blame you for not knowing it. As a summary of what I've heard (I don't speak fluent Japanese and only know a few words, so this is mostly relying on fantranslations of the og script) in JPN RD they were written as a comingled stereotype of gay men/crossdressers/trans women - though Japanese has no gendered 3rd person, they refer to themself femininely in 1st person (so does Devdan, the 'speaks in third person' thing was the localisers way of translating that) and they also have a big crush on Ranulf. In ENG RD, this was removed pretty much entirely, though you can still guess at it in some scenes (the scene where Lyre and them are arguing over Ranulf, most notably). Heroes made them nonbinary (and attracted to men), probably as a way to be faithful to the JPN version of Kyza and not keep the offensive aspects.
Yeah I'm going with radiant dawn. Heroes is a mobile side gacha noncanon game. Anything it claims is irrelevant imo it's just for entertainment and making $$
@@GamingTranceSeer Yeah, but which RD do you go with? JPN Kyza and ENG Kyza are completely different characters (even discounting what their gender is)
@@altruisticcomputer4706 the one I played of course
@@GamingTranceSeer the version I would have played (if I had played the game legally) would have characterised Kyza differently, which can get confusing when talking about characters (unless you specify US!Kyza, JPN!Kyza, PAL!Kyza, Heroes!Kyza). That's why I generally refer to Heroes Kyza when I talk about them, because that character is pretty much universal regionally.
@@altruisticcomputer4706 if that's how you wanna see him sure you do you
we have hunter's volley at home
hunter's volley at home: dire thunder lindon
Small facts about Cath, she has slightly better bulk than Chad wich allows her to survive the purge from chapter 16 with a pure water something Chad can't, Astolfo can also survive it easily but I find he is more useful on the right side of the map due ti the presence of axe units he can killing edge them. I also found some utility to her in the team I formed once for chapter 19 Sacae, because she was trained she was very dodgy however she was getting one shot by the wyverns, this was actually good because in a forest her chance of getting hit was around 15~ish so she could dodge them easily and in because of having a chance of getting one shot and the AI priority that enemies have for thiefs, enemies would rather attack her instead than a Cecilia they could easily 2 shot, this is very specific but is something I thought it was funny.
The confusion with FE9 sothe is with fixed growths vs random growths. Sothe’s stats are much worse with fixed growths, so he’ll end up worse than his RD bases. With Random growths Sothe’s averages are universally higher than his RD bases, although if he’s screwed he can end up below his bases in certain stats. His HP, Magic, Defense and Resistance averages are less than 1 point above his RD bases, but his strength average beats his RD base by 2 (it actually caps), he beats his luck base by 5, and his speed and skill almost always cap. So on average he ends up with slightly better bases than RD (although he obviously can get screwed)
There's a catch with his random growth averages - while they do end up higher than his RD bases, it's not by much, requires a lot of work, and I don't think makes any effective difference at all in how good he is. He still stomps the same chapters, becomes middling in the same chapters, and becomes outclassed at the same time.
It's a big contrast to some other units who with transfers become completely different in their powerlevel, like Boyd or Nephenee.
@@LoudWaffle Idk man, 20 strength means 1 strength proc off of cap in RD, and you can possibly actually start plotting a fix-his stats to be better in Part 3. Sure, he's probably still unsalvagable in Part 4, but why not, 20 strength is nice, and all it takes is some BEXP in PoR on an unpromoted unit, you can boost him up endgame in PoR with no real opportunity cost, shit I usually EXP up Shinon at that point for fun, it really doesn't cost anything to get Sothe to level 20 at that point.
@@FUTBALLZAK I've tried it, it doesn't work. The DB just doesn't have enough bexp to spare on trying to make Sothe into a carry unit, and his caps will always hold him back from that role in P3. Nolan, Jill, Zihark, and Volug will all easily outperform Sothe in P3 with just a bit of effort put into them.
ESPECIALLY because his biggest problem against Laguz, his defense, will be on average 3 points lower if you transfer stats from PoR.
@@LoudWaffle Pretty sure on random he'll have 1 more def on average, and I'm not talking making a carry, getting strength capped earlier, and so potentially using that to potentially drive up his speed higher, and his speed cap of 30 ain't bad at all (though a bit hard to hit) drive up his speed and you can kill more Laguz with the Beast Killer, and do more chip while depleting gauge with a forged dagger, getting to 23 strength earlier also means potentially killing more untransformed laguz with a dagger.
Like I think Sothe's a good unit in Part 3, not as a carry but ya know he'll kill a Laguz on PP, maybe another couple on EP, and ya need to block a lot of ledges in Part 3, and Sothe does that while having good, or at least decent, 1-2 range innit.
@@FUTBALLZAK Level 20 Sothe in PoR average 11 defense, which is lower than his default RD base of 14. It's a direct nerf.
And I talked about making him a carry because that's the only way I can imagine justifying dumping bexp into him in part 3 to play off of his capped strength.
And Sothe doesn't want to go ham in Part 3 with beast killer because if you kill a lot of laguz on Enemy Phase, more will attack him and cause him to die.
I agree he's still good and a valuable part of the army in part 3, but as per my original comment, even an ideal transfer (so way better than his average transfer) won't really make a big difference in how he contributes to the team. You can hypothetically rig all of his PoR levels and he's only slightly better across the board, except Defense which is at an impressive 20, making him a more reliable wall in Part 3. But still not tanky enough to eat a lot of laguz in on EP; they'll chip him down pretty quickly even like that, because although he's living more than just one combat now, he's not living more than like 4.
53:27
So first off Mercedes doesn’t have frozen Lance, and secondly Frozen Lance should not be slept on.
It is almost the highest damaging magic attack in the game, only falling behind Deathspikes when being used on a horse.
Lorenz using Frozen Lance can consistently out damage Lysithea in the early/mid game, and then is on par damage wise late game.
Frozen lance is the reason marianne is better than mercy
Great list btw, just had to stan frozen Lance real quick
Yeah I agree, Frozen Lance is one of the better combat arts in the game, and is one of the character -specific ones that is (imo) a reasonable argument to significantly elevate unit's viability
Mercedes has the Fire List and Thunder. Not ice spells.
gotcha, thanks for the corrections
I would put Ana lower personally, to put it bluntly she has nothing going for her, she has some of the lowest bases in the game and her growths do not compensate at all.
Bows and Axes are good boons to be fair but Authoriry is the worst bane in the game since its going to impact you regardless of the class you choose.
She has pretty ok combat arts, not actively bad but nothing outstanding either. Her spell list includes singular good spell in Rescue, because Meteor in not good on her.
The reason Meteor is not good is because she doesnt have high enough magic to deal significant with it and no supports means she cant provide Hit/Avo bonus with it, or in some circumstances actually prevent the bonus from happening since its based on deployement order
Being a faculty unit means she cant become a dancer, doesnt have 2 minimum stats per level and misses out on chapter 9 which is the most difficult part 1 chapter
I just believe she is the textbook definition of Greatly Outclassed, Some Utility. She has Rescue but others Rescue better, she has magic combat arts but others do it better, she has Meteor but its worthless.
"Maybe there will be a part two if people want another 3 hour FE rants fest"
Oh boy, 6 hours of FE rants fests!
One thing I will stand up for my boy Virion on is, as you touched on a little, his Lunatic and Lunatic+ performance. In those modes, fighting enemies who can counter you, unless you have Nosferatu or activate Sol almost every swing, is pure pain, and not advised. Virion is inherently a ranged unit, and one with good hit rates too if left in archer/sniper/bow knight, so he can reliably shoot stuff without getting his cheeks clapped immediately. One other key part of the nice, is the Longbow. It is one of the only 2-3 range weapons in Awakening, and while it's either random, or gotten once, or from a Spotpass Einherjar shop on the list (which is closing down soon, (thanks Nintendo you evil fucks!), it allows Virion, in archer/sniper, to bully other ranged units, and eternally annoy mages who thought they could punish his nonexistent resistance. It's RNG for the Longbow, yes, but so is the Dire Thunder ring and everyone is willing to waste minutes of their life on that, so the same applies to a funny bow for cravat man. The result is having a very safe way to deal with threats from a slightly longer range, which in my heavily personal experience, adds up.
Is he impractical compared to the usual ways of handling Lunatic/Lunatic +? Largely yes, but trying new ways to play, finding new things that can work, and feeding an energy drop here or there, can lead to new and beautiful things in life. What would be the point in doing things the same way all the time? Variety is the spice of life, and risk is the essence of adventure.
I also advise getting his supports with Frederick and Robin. The former is for practical reasons, the latter is also for practical reasons, but moreso for the fact it's one of the best supports for both Virion and Robin, and is always a treat.
Yeah, I think he was on probably a little bit too low on this list, if only because even when playing with traditional broken builds he's VERY helpful in the early game before you have access to any broken builds which is an aspect that I don't think we emphasized enough and I think puts him at the very least in "outclass but fine" but probably actually in "not actually bad"
Awakening is a game that I'm less familiar with than others and at the time of recording this I was even less familiar than I am now
I love that Meg and Gwendolyn are in the same tier 💖
I as a matter of fact did get wrys to bishop in fe1. It was my first fire emblem game ever so I thought nothing of gaining xp from dodging, so I set up a bunch of xp grinds against enemies with both him and Lena, and it was amazing. Absolutely glorious 🙏I’ll see if I still have the file on my switch to send a clip
Poor Amid, looking cool and with great growths but shitty skills and a lackluster class. At least in Binary he can get Thorhammer >:D
I don't get why people dislike lindon so much, like yeah the well update kinda took away a fun niche of him but his stats are perfectly serviceable, he is your middle of the road FE prepromote.
He should 100% be in outclassed but still fine
I haven't played Engage much since launch, what did the update change for Lindon?
@@reidskull5018 the update didn't change Lindon perse.
Before the well update, SP was a way more scarce resourse and since late game prepromotes started with 2,000 sp that meant they could inherit really good skills right off the bat. Now with easy access to sp books is not nearly as limited so it isn't such a big deal to start with a high sp.
34:10 Obviously not a huge deal, but in both Cipher and Heroes, Kyza has their gender listed as male, whereas characters like Limstella and Bramimond are explicitly neutral/non-binary. Therefore, until further notice I think it’s best to refer to Kyza as a man who uses they/them pronouns rather than non-binary.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification
On the one hand I can definitely understand this rationale but on the other hand I do think it warrants keeping in mind that they're labeled as male by the same (very likely cishet) writers who wrote them as a stereotype to begin with. It's sort of like how IIRC there's an achievement in a mobile game for... I think Street Fighter? where you get it by clearing some content or other with a team of all female characters, and canon trans woman Poison is not included in the list of characters you can use for it.
Take it with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism regarding the intentions of the people making that call, is all I'm saying.
@@topazlight1586 It is possible that the writers are being weird about Kyza’s gender markers because they don’t understand how nonbinary people work, but regardless I do still think it’s misgendering to say that an explicitly male character is nonbinary simply because they use they/them pronouns.
Also I think Intelligent Systems has little to no issue with having nonbinary characters at this point. Limstella has been treated very respectfully since their introduction long before Kyza, and they even had a nonbinary VA in FEH, and I think the fact that the devs even have a neutral/nonbinary gender marker that they’re willing to use when appropriate says a lot. One could argue it’s different for Kyza because the other nonbinary characters (Limstella, Bramimond, and Arval) aren’t fully human, but Kyza also isn’t human so it shouldn’t make a difference imo.
Oh I thought Limstella and Bramimond just didn't have genders because of their backstories. Like Limstella is a morph, which are just tools to Nergual so why should they be treated as anything beyond that? Doesn't help that Limstella's personality is mostly indifferent and aloof to anything around them. And Bramimond is a mage who delved into the dark magic arts as a desperation to help with the Scouring (I think it as called?) and lost their humanity, including their personality since they mimic the lords' personalities and voice depending on who they're talking to, as a result, not that they were nonbinary specifically and why Kyza is often considered to be the first nonbinary character despite Limstella and Bramimond existing first, and then Arval (who I think is also genderless but is a copy of a male character) later
But also for why I think Kyza counts more even though they're not a human themselves is that they're a living breathing creature, just not a human. Meanwhile, Limstella and Arval are creations and Bramimond lost their humanity
And well, Bramimond used to be male before learning dark magic, and Arval was created to be a copy of a male character, furthering the fact that Kyza felt like truly the first nonbinary, or demiboy character as a result (I think its the demiboy/girls that uses they/them, alongside he/him or she/her. I do know there's a specific name for the people who uses they/him or they/her, so correct me if they're not called demis)
FE9 Elincia doesn't really make sense in greatly outclassed as her niche is unique. She's has by far the highest starting Staff Rank at A (Rhys has D, Mist and Sages have E), and has by far the best mobility among staff units. Her base magic leaves a lot to be desired so she's not necessairly the best staff unit, but she still has some pretty neat merits. With some levels she's likely to catch up to most other staff units but Soren also.
Is she a great unit? Not really, but no unit outright outclasses her.
She gets A staffs and flight for 3 maps, only one of which even has a use for flight. Wrys and Mist have lower starting rank but will reach S long before elincia even joins. I also think the A staff rank is kinda pointless. Rescue is nice but the maps where Elincia is even available for aren't typically the ones you want rescue for, other than clash, but Elinca isn't the best rescue user for clash as she can't survive enemy phase and doesn't have the rescue range for a one turn.
@@DaniDoyle yeah, she suffers a lot from availability. If she joined just a little sooner she would be much better, only having 4 chapters is lame. She's not great, but she has some niches over every other staff unit, hence why I don't think she's technically outright outclassed. She has 1 MOV over Tormod and Mist even without flight. In casual play you will likely have other staff units which will compensate the movement advantage with better stats and being able to survive, but I guess she gets much better in 0% growths and I believe she saves like, a turn in the LTC or something like that. She would be a great staff replacement in iron man if she wasn't a game over condition with terrible bulk, so she's doesn't have that going for her, which is kinda dumb on her part imo.
Also, Amiti is funny
shes only availbale for 3 chapters, not 4, and is definetly outclassed in at least 2 of those maps, and probably all 3. a 0 growths setting is not exactly relevant for evaluating how units perform in standard play.
@@DaniDoyle my bad, I forgot you can't use her in chapter 28
Yeah, LTC/speedrun and Iron man probably counts more than 0%, and she is awful in the latter simply because she's a fragile game over condition. I guess if every other staff unit died you can use her but you surely don't want to
"Wind Edge only has 6 might"
And can't be forged 😭
I've done the crit Dire Thunder, it's fun.
The real shit is Byleth Elsurge, Elsurge has 10 crit, Byleth makes Elsurge a 1-3 range weapon for Sages.... oh yeah baby now we cookin'.
Did this on my second Maddening Run and my Hard Iron Man, (sigh) had such a blast.
Main problem with cath is that you can buy door and chest keys, and with chest keys in particular you can clear out treasure rooms much faster with good use of canto. If you remember to buy a bunch the main reason to bring a thief is enemy stealables, which can usually be covered by just one thief.
Kaga didn't dislike axe fighters too much, he gave us Samson in tear ring saga and he's one of the best units in the game.
So are we just gonna ignore Mauvier getting called ‘Morbius?’ Bro really said it’s Mauvin’ time before chapter 21.
Who's Mauvier?
are there any notable placement changes you'd make if you were to remake this list today? honestly i think all engage characters could go in "outclassed but still fine" just cause engage gives you so many band-aids to slap onto units
Lindon is not even anywhere close to the worst in his own game. and Marisa is the worst FE8 unit in the whole game.
Nino and Sonya are missing too.
How I built Lindon was making him an axe Mage Knight, forging him a Killer Axe (which is a rank C so it activates Weapon Insight by the time you get him when most enemies are using rank C or B weapons), giving it an insignia that either lowers its weight (even though he barely has enough build to wield it anyway) or increases crit, and then give him Wrath and Vantage (or Hold Out). Because of this specific build on Lindon, we joke about "Oh, you made grandpa angry" when he has low HP and has 100% crit rate. I have screenshots, I show people these screenshots, they think 100% crit rate on Lindon specifically should be illegal. 100% on Alcryst or Kagekatsu is okay, not on grandpa XD
Angry grandpa I love it
@@DaniDoyle When you phrase it like that, I think that solidified his place in fun meme tier XD
Idk, I think y’all are seriously undervaluing Lindon esp in a game like engage. He is super easy to get to crazy damage and just by virtue of being a base sage as a mystical unit he is just made usable. He is a perfect flex slot if you’ve lost Pandreo or Citrinne earlier and even if he’s a lil worse I’d still hesitate to call him a bad unit
If i redid this list today I would have put him at "greatly outclassed some utility" now, mostly because flying staffs though.
An youtuber named bigklingy has said about donnel is that even when you do grind him to the mercenary line, he abouslty powerful in the mid-game to late game main story wise. however if doing the late game DLC he struggles because his low stat cap modifies and most are negative expect strength, defense and luck. So if take account DLC chapters, donnel's unit progress looks like a bell curve.
If you pay for free experience everyone becomes an absurdly powerful unit, that's why I don't take the DLC into account.
@@DaniDoyle I get that.
One thing that is good with donnel is that he passes attitude, which can really make his really broken. However the con is again his stats modifies are low expect for luck, strength, and defense.
I really don't value aptitude particularly highly, honestly even at all. Almost everyone in Awakening has incredible growths and will end up as a giant ball of stats typically even better stats than Donald and do so more easily and with access to better builds
Lapis is helping me out a lot in my Maddening run (at Chapter 19 right now) as a unit to stack avoid on.
IIRC, she is the only unit before Chapter 11 with a personal skill that boosts avoid, so she is the only unit who can get both Avoid +10 from a personal, and from inheriting Avoid +15 from Marth, until you get Marth back late game. Then I gave her a sword with Micaiah's engrave, which gives +40 Avoid, IIRC. So she can get +65 avoid from weapons and skills.
Maddening enemies are often too strong for my other units to bait out safely, so I have Lapis do it. Since Maddening enemies don't attack if they have zero hit, if I want her to counterattack, I have her equip a different weapon so that their hit is still low, but above zero. She still has +25 avoid from her skills, and is naturally fast, so she has good odds of survival. I can also use terrain and Corrin fog to adjust her avoid and get the enemy hit as low as possible without reaching zero. Having multiple distinct ways to boost her avoid, and using them selectively, makes her exact avoid stat very flexible. Once I got Roy back, I put him on her to fix her strength and further improve her survivability with Hold Out. She has been really helpful for getting the enemies into range for my other units to fight.
I consider myself pretty good at Fire Emblem, but I'm not amazing, and not at your skill level, so I understand that this build probably isn't optimal. I've found it pretty intuitive and useful, though, as someone who finds Maddening quite difficult. I personally would recommend it to someone trying Maddening for the first time. And it's a build unique to her, because of the unique combination of an avoid-boosting personal skill and a join-time before you lose Marth.
Just because the bill isn't optimal doesn't mean it's not fun, I love using suboptimal units and I'm glad you found a way to make lapis work that you found enjoyable :-) it sounds really fun and cool, and it's a neat way to leverage her personal skill!
I absolutely loved using Sothe just cause I liked his character. I was very aware of how suboptimal he was, but I was intent on making him work, so I gave him resolve to basically make him on par with the rest of my units when it was active. I was also really intent on abusing the RD stat passing; if you max all his stats in PoR he gets massively buffed in RD, so he was basically a turbo crutch for the Dawn Brigade.
Silly Bors everyone is S tier in Project Ember, that’s why no one’s special.
Suprised that no one is coming to Mercedes' rescue in the comments so I guess i gotta death knight it up! Terrible jokes aside i played this game a bagilion times on maddening and especially in the early game her getting physic fast is soooo useful. Later on her fortify is pretty good. Yeah it can hurt units that use low hp but generally you want to have the option and it gives her a unique niche in team building since besides Flayn she is the ONLY other fortify user in the game. This in my mind puts her miles above Ashe who doesn't have any unique qualities or Anna who doesn't get support bonuses from anyone. Also her offensive spell list is ok, she doesn't have any ice spells. She gets thunder, bolganone and ragnarock. They are ok, but if you use her it's for the healing. She might not be great on every team, especially if you have multiple units who want to stay below max hp, but she was often a solid pick for me. Oh and she has a crest so doesn't have to worry about damage from the range+ relic staff (forgot its name) aaaaand she supports Jeritza who has limited support options and Jeritza is a beast although locked route wise.
Overall was very suprised to see her on the list and even more suprised she went anywhere but "not bad".
There's actually a lot of people defending Mercedes in the comments, to the extent where I had to make an entire video dedicated to why I believe her to be the worst student in the game, I would recommend checking that one out if you want a more detailed explanation for the significant problems that Mercedes offers
Small side thing: Radiant Bow wants Bow Knight; not Sniper. Bow Knight has a higher magic cap; which matters since all bow classes have a really low MAG cap. Also yes; Lapis isn't actually bad. Kagetsu just *exists* . You're not bad because you're worse Kagetsu.
Your magic stat doesn't actually matter for radiant bow... no I'm not joking, the one shot threshold for every flier in the game is 13 magic, or 0 with the DLC, meaning the higher magic cap of bow knight means nothing. As such, radiant bow sniper is superior for Astra Storm shenanigans
Also I didn't compare lapis to kagetsu, i compared her to everyone around her. She is outclassed by her contemporaries, at a time where everyone is fighting over resources.
@@DaniDoyle Huh, I wasn't aware of that. I mean, Magic matters if you're shooting the bow at things that are not flying... but Engage kind of spams fliers at you as if the Corrupted are the reanimated corpses of 3H players. So there's *usually* a flier to shoot at.
Personally I like Bow Knights for the extra mobility, so my Sniper dosen't lag behind my more mobile units, but I like to play a very mobile setup with heavy cav and fliers.
I find it funny that seemingly nobody is defending Flora or Sophia because everyone knows just how bad they are.
Just a little correction: Mercedes unique combat art doesn't lower enemy resistance, it lowers their might.
I routinely get FE1 Wrys to promotion (at level 20, no less). The easy way to do it is with a C3 thief (also works for Lena), but on my most recent run, I did it against the boss in C1.
Replayed Sacred Stones recently, and there's a couple things I wanna point out on Amelia and Marisa.
On Amelia's recruit map on Erika's route, there are 2 archers that will never move, they're the ones next to the boss. If Amelia poke both of them to death, she'd be close to, if not outright level 10 by the end of it. She's not as hard to level as you might think she is. You can then just play her as a normal unit. She's perfectly competent as a cavalier, and if we're tryharding it'll be the better choice, but a fast armor knight is just very funny.
Recruiting Marisa doesn't require you to unequip anything whatsoever. You get Tethys like, basically the same time as him. Just move in, dance, move, talk.
And as an extra, on Joshua. He never attacks Natasha. Unless you're doing ltc(in which case you might not recruit Joshua anyway because faster?), just bait and kill other units around him, walk in peacefully with Natasha, and talk.
3:58 MORBIUS = MAUVIER
Confirmed
You thing of evil, you and your acolyte have put our goddess Meg on a tier list of bad units. Repent.
Sarcasm? I hope not, because I unironically loved Meg at first sight and Radiant Dawn being RD to the Dawn Brigade plus the fact she barely had any characterization (like so many others) made me rage quit the game.
41:32 Ok this part reminded me of a fun fact. Cath can appear in chapters 6, 8, 12, 16, 20, and 22. She either appears alone (e.g. Ch6) or with another enemy thief (e.g. Ch8). But the logic for her events is a bit janky, and in some cases if she doesn't appear (has been recruited or killed), neither will the other thief. This is the case in Ch16, for example (so if you ever wondered why Aquelia doesn't have enemy thieves, it's cuz you recruited or killed Cath). Some chapters like 20A do seperate the logic properly though and the thieves appear regardless of Cath's status.
So that post is sort of vaguely correct in a super roundabout way, lol. Not recruiting or killing Cath does mean you get more thief spawns (still not her fault when it comes to this tier list though).
Donnel defender here. I tend to use Donnel in hard mode iron mans. The utility I have found for Donnel is that in chapter 4 is that he can take a hit from Lucina without facing a crit chance. I have no idea what breakpoints he needs to do this because I don't remember exactly pair up bonuses are a huge variable. There's probably another strategy that can have Frederick guaranteed tank a crit from Lucina, but Donnel defenders take what they can get.
Mercedes is literally one of the best Three Houses unit, I have no idea why he's even on this list.
There's an entire i made video about her I would recommend you watching if you're confused at my reasoning
Very fun watch all around, though I would like to make a couple notes.
Amid is truly dire, don't misconstrue my words, but his starting class, Wind Mage, is actually a boon for him--for starters, Wind Mage has a B rank in Wind, which means he can use Elwind pre-promotion. Elwind is by far the best tome you get in Gen 1 besides Forseti, both because Wind Magic just weighs less than the other magic types and because Elthunder literally does not exist in Gen 1, so Arthur is never really inheriting anything better than even the basic Wind tome in his starting inventory. Azelle!Arthur can use Elfire and this is useful to muscle through bulkier enemies, but it's so heavy that it's not really going to be his main weapon, and for most Arthurs it's not even an option. Plus, most of the mages that you're fighting in the earlygame are Thunder mages that Wind has WTA against, so there's not even really much in terms of weapon triangle reasons to change magic types. Wind Mage also has strictly better bases than the regular Mage, being identical in all stats besides Speed, where its base is 3 points higher.
This all doesn't save Amid from no Pursuit, no Wrath, and no horse, but I do think that Arthur would be pretty much strictly better if he started out as a Wind Mage like Amid does. (Especially since he'd actually be able to inherit Elwind!)
Also, I think y'all got the route differences for Marisa *super* backwards. Joining at the end of chapter 12b is horrible for her when the boss is carrying a Swordslayer and the only enemies that are probably left on the map are like, steel lance bonewalkers that twoshot her. Meanwhile chapter 10a can easily have a bazillion reinforcements beelining (tons of which are using axes) towards her and she can just sit on a forest and farm if that's your prerogative. Plus the maps coming up afterwards are fairly relaxed monster-filled rout maps that can easily afford to have you slow down and set up kills for her, and she also gets to run into enemies she's actually uniquely good at fighting in the form of the dogs that most of your units can't double but she can.
Now, I had a whole youtube reply war about Marisa's woes in Ephraim route, but the most important thing to take away is that in the literal next map immediately after joining, she's faced with a boss that can oneshot her at base with over 50% odds. Oh, and also it's a map that you *need* to rush if you want to get to the village. And it's swarming with cavaliers and pegasi. Honestly a downright comically bad first impression.
Chapter 14b is basically your last chance before things get totally out of hand for Marisa to keep up with the level curve, and while it's definitely *doable* it's still not a great map to have to babysit her for. Large numbers of mages and armor knights is bad news for swordlocked Marisa, and while there is a very tantalizing looking blob of axe fighters on the right side of the map, like any good troll it slaps a Swordreaver on one of them to make her shatter into a bunch of tiny purple pieces. The left side is probably the right play for her but she can't double any of the swordies and their accuracy is far too good to try to handle multiple of them at once. You also don't want to spend too much time sitting around on this map before you handle everything, due to the status staves going about and Rennac trying to run away with all the treasure. You can farm off the reinforcements, I guess, but it takes frigging forever since it takes forever for them to all appear and since they're mostly mages she needs to be killing them on player phase.
I would completely unironically rather train Amelia than Marisa on Ephraim route. They just did her so dirty lmao
"3 houses has an over reliance on low health builds which is why I don't like it"
Really? Guess I've been playing wrong by giving everyone death/fiendish and darting blow (when applicable) and keeping everyone at/near full health lol
Deploying Sothe along with Volke in the desert and on the boat is optimal!
I don't have a clip since I emulated it on my 3DS but I got FE1 Wrys to Bishop (from level 20 no less, not that that makes much of a difference) and I can confirm that it is not even slightly worth it unless you're like me and find doing ridiculous things like that entertaining for its own sake.
FE1 using the "raise to class bases if lower" model for promotion bonuses means there's a relatively high floor to how good literally any Bishop will be, but you have two characters who come as Bishops out of the box and two Mages with nice Prf Tomes who you don't have to be a complete lunatic to train up to promotion, so none of the Clerics are worth it, objectively-speaking.
I Actually disagree with the assessment that none of the clerics are worth it, as Maria and Lena come with the Wplvl to use warp at base, meaning they are highly contributing without ever getting a point of experience. Just because you don't promote them doesn't mean they're not valuable units in their own right
@@DaniDoyle Oh, to be clear I meant that, specifically in FE1, it's not worth it to PROMOTE any of them, not that none of them are worth using as units AT ALL. Lena and Maria have great utility and are absolutely worth USING, I just don't think promoting them is really worth the effort at all unless, y'know, you find doing so to be enjoyable in itself.
I will say that you can Fort grind the Clerics off of Level 1 Thieves. Of course, it would eat your turn count alive for little benefit, but at least it's an option at all.
Lapis is in no world bad or outclassed (by more than one unit(Chloé)), she's a high tier unit, has access to early sword or lance power, you can give her forges and the heroes weapons. She has many more options than half of the cast. It's really easy to give her the little boost she needs to start onerounding up untill endgame. Calling Lapis bad is like calling FE6 Fir bad because Rutger exists and she's outclassed by him
I mean, anyone can use Sword/Lance/Axe power, that is not a trait unique to Lapis. Meanwhile, most units around her can contribute to your army without a 5000 SP investment.
@@DaniDoyleYou don't need to dump 5k sp on her to reach one rounding, give her 2k and she onerounds almost every enemy until chapter 19, give her 3k and she even oneshots mages. All this on bond ring. You just make her a wyvern, give her Roy and lance power 1 and all her problems are gone, onerounding even armors with Fensalir +3. Also not everyone has access to lance and sword power after chapter 10 until almost endgame so that a big edge on her over other units, just like Anna and chloé have sword power access over Pandreo. Underlooking resource access is the pitfall FE4 fans fell into while ranking Seliph for a lot of time and this is no different, instead of getting the best cav unit in the series you get the third best physical unit in the game performancewise
I’ll reference my comment on part 1, Johalvier gets you fast Nosferatu and he’s very fun to use when making sub-optimal choices like politely declining honse and then killing a perfectly good cavalry unit and their commander instead of just having a summit over tea in the middle of a campaign… I mean, fuck the home castle layout frfr 😹
Johalvier's association with Nos is actually a pretty big misconception: all you need to do is turn the Isaac castle blue, which is something you want to do anyway (and takes less time than the other castle). Talking to Johan turns Isaac green but before you have the chance to reasonably reach it with your foot units (such as Seliph), red units will capture it from the four green guards.
@@DaniDoyle oh my Gooooood noooooo 😹 I’ve been made a fool of by my impulse of “I’m onto you IntSys, I smell secrets and I gotta know” and then look up a guide. That’s great to know, thank you!!
58:01 You forgot the main reason anyone would want to get Johalvier.
Julia can get Resire/Nosferatu instead of Aura.
Thats a common misconception. They are not linked to which brother you pick, just which castle you conquer first.
@@DaniDoyle But aren't you only able to take one castle if you recruit one of them?
Nope. You can take both castles. I do it every playthrough.
@@DaniDoyle Wait, so how do you take the second castle if you recruit one of them?
@@yoshimallow the same way you conquer any castle. Have seliph seize it when its red. If the castle is green, simply allow red units to seize it (which in my experience naturally happens anyway unless you are rushing the map, as red units spawn near that castle as soon as you recruit a brother and they prioritize seizing it) then seize it as you would any other red castle.
Are we not gonna mention you accidentally calling Mauvier “Morbius”?
It's not an accident
Turn Lapis into a great knight or wyvern knight
there I fixed Lapis
I’m surprise Lapiss isn’t in worst of the worst, at this point you don’t see a point in using her. Like she has similar and slightly worse, stats than Boucheron who’s one of the much better units in the game because his amazing dex growth so he’ll be accurate with axes.
I mean like she's fine, you can make her a Wyvern and give her the Noatun and it's not hard to get her ORKOing most enemies in the game with a strength boosting Emblem or Eirika from there. She's arguably not worth using, but not worth using doesn't equal worst of the wrose
I've always found her to be really good, I don't get why people have a probably with her
I always assumed the whole argument was "Kagetsu better"
Would Dani eat popcorn made by elthunder.
I don't like popcorn but I'd try it
Doesnt elsurge have crit?
It can crit but I don't think it has innate crit. It might have like 5 or 10 but when I say a "crit weapon" I'm thinking of 20+ like a wo dao or Kard
I think it has some inate critical lile steel weapons
I didn’t realize people think Mercedes is bad. I don’t really like the low health builds so Mercedes has always been excellent for me as she’s the best at keeping the whole team healthy🤷🏼♀️
even without low health builds, I dont think Mercy actually has value. 3 Houses has so many ways to heal your units, I dont think its worth a deployment slot for a dedicated healer in the mid-late game, and in the early game shes actually a WORSE healer than marianne/Lindhart since she gets physic later, meaning it is impossilbe for her to have physic by chapter 2 and takes SIGNIFICANT investment for chapter 3 physic, which hurts the rest of your team and isnt really worth it since Mission Assistance Lindhardt or Marianne will have physic in ch3 anyway.
I managed to get Wrys to Bishop in Fe1. Not only that, he killed Gharnef. Where do I show my Wrys?
OMG you're so gamer for that
@@DaniDoyle I was lucky he got like 6 more weapon levels unpromoted. I was doing a run of the worst units of fe1 and that was really helpful.
RIP Lindon
The problem is any good trained mage is better than Lindon.
He is basically the pre promote with decent bases to do the job. 2000SP was good before well update. Now it's just a little bonus
My favorite Lindon builds are Dire thunder corrin engrave and Divine Pulse+ and Sniper Lindon
Donnel ... my least favorite villager/trainee. I just can't use him. If he was in another game, I would use over 50% of the time
At least FE6 has Slim lance so Wendy can still have some decent hit rate to train in the western isle.
and funny Armor triangle attack
Sothe's Blossom working during the 3 yeas between PoR and RD is funny lol
Amid, He and Arden are the only units I didn't trained in FE4. Arden because movement and Amid ... if he had Pursuit, I would use him
I like Jesse, he has a niche of having Luck and Res, two stats that usually aren't boosted by class bases.
FE11 Marth, good chip damage with forged Raipier in the first half of the game. Not a good option, but it's a option lol. And there always the ultra niche of doing the final bhit on Medeus with Falchion if every other unit that can damage Medeus died in an ironman run.
My problem with Cath is I don't choose her as my second thief in ch16 because I can train Chad with Lugh supports when everyone is free to deploy and Astore has good bases. Cath supports is also awful (every support is +1 point per turn)
But thief is thief, when I need one and she is the only option, I will use her
Now I want to use FE1 Wrys lol
Virion gives str and defense backup stats surprisingly. I use him as a filler backpack.
Sad, Johalvier moved to worst only because of the tier's visual lol
I liked my Paladin-> swordmaster Lapis using an emblem for the entire game to farm Lunarc Brace without well and use brave sword.
It was painfull, but interesting.
Actually, only Pandreo truly outclasses him as a sage (I absolutely love the Radiant Bow Sniper Build though.)
Against anybody else, a reasonable argument can be made that Lindon the better sage.
As a magic user, if you want to deal big damage, you need either a massive magic stat, or Bolganone. Lindon starts with 10 build as a sage, so despite his lowish speed stat, he's actually one of the faster sages.
Level 30 Lindon hits 22 speed and 39 M Attack as a sage. Here are the speeds of other units worth being considered as a sage equipped with something that lets them match his attack power. B is Bolganone. E is Elfire.
24: Pandreo (B)
22: Merrin (B), Chloe (B)
21: Anna (E)
19: Framme (B), Ivy (B)
18: Hortensia (B)
17: Anna (B)
16: Celine (B) Citrinne (E)
12: Citrinne (B)
Characters that hit above 41 M Attack from above:
47: Citrinne (B)
43: Ivy (B)
46: Anna (B)
42: Pandreo (B), Merrin (B), Chloe (B)
Lindon, along with Pandreo and Framme, also have Staff Proficiency, meaning they can use Fortify and Entrap as Sages.
Lindon has better HP and/or Def than almost all other units on this list.
But in any case, Pandreo is easily the best sage. Second best is open for debate. I'd actually advocate for Lindon. He comes at a time when recruitment slots are plentiful, meaning your army probably has room for him. He can use A rank staffs. Only Pandreo and Merrin can match or surpass him in both speed and power simultaneously. Anna (E) can hit 41 M. Attack, 21 speed, which is a debatably a little better than Lindon (B), but she's much frailer, has B rank staffs, and requires much more investment.
While Merrin has potential to be a better sage, she can't become a sage until after you get Micaiah back, which is quite late. Because of this, most people will make her a physical class.
So while Bolganone sage puts Lindon's cool ability to waste, he's actually much better at it than he gets credit for. I say he's second best. I think it's difficult to argue he's worse than 4th.
This was a really fun video to watch as someone whos used like a 3rd of these units. But also as someone who has there are some things i dont really see the reason for.
As for cath dont you already have 2 thieves by the time she joins? Other than an iron man is there really a reason to ever use her?
As for mercedes 3h endgame snipers only need like 22 str and unlike to other 2 on the list mercedes has special support with annete for 3dmg. She also has bow proficiency so shes a better physical sniper than both ashe and anna on top of being able to actually use magic bows so even just looking at her late game combat shes better.
As for lindon hes a pretty mediocre mage in fixed mode maddening. As a mage knight lindon in lategame has like 2 less speed and 1 less magic compared to pandreo and thats pretty okay. He can go griffin and give crit engrave to his levin sword and lindon actually doubles the endgame wyverns and one round them with 1 crit. He can start doing this right after his joining chapter which means unlike others on the list lindon doesnt need any time to grow. He honestly felt comparable to other mediocre units like diamant. Sure its modern fe and you have so many alternatives but lindon wasnt nearly as painful to use compared to fe11 marth setsuna mist larchel etc.
You can lose units in more than just challenge runs.
Kyza can shove pretty well, Lyre can't, easy win for Kyza.
TRUE!
Amid slander. Hes better than azelle imo. Azelle can double, but amid can actually deal damage in the first place. He is outclassed by every other possible mage, he should be moved to fun meme or greatly outclassed.
Azel gets a horse and swords upon promotion, and has the same magic growth as amid, with one less base magic. There is no world where amid is better than Azel.
¿Donel y Mercedes? Vale que Donel en los primeros capítulos es un peso muerto de pero de mitad del juego en adelante se convierte en el MVP, mejor que Robin incluso. Mercedes tiene un rol de sanadora donde es la mejor y cumple sobradamente eso, no tiene sentido que haga otra cosa.
I can't believe you lied to me
Viika > MythrilZentih confirmed?
Dang. almost subscribed before the misgendering comment. I can't go along with someone enabling the pronoun nonsense.
glad to not have you, I don't want cringe subscribers
The real cringe is suporting people who can't even accept themselves, and intead prey on children and mutilate themselves.
Ok groomer
@@DaniDoyle the only thing I'm grooming is my beard. Also. Look at your actual facts. Most trannies are s*x offenders and therefore groomers.
Interesting opinion, care to enlighten me more? I'm always happy to have terminally online weirdos like you leave long comment threads to boost me in the algorithm and therefore increase my ad revenue.