Taking her through the entire game, my Etie was great. EXCEPT that she finally got over 10 base defence in chapter 21. So she was quite literally made of paper all the way through. Which was a CHORE.
If you really want Etie to shine, get her out of Archer and into Thief asap. It's very low investment and it practically causes her value to skyrocket. Thief gives her some much needed Speed and Dex growth while not hampering her Strength, lets her keep the Covert bonuses from being in cover and gives her access to Daggers, which are low Weight (good for her bad Build stat) and are very easy to forge, while giving her 1-2 range, instead of locking her to 2 with Bows. Thief also has the added bonus of not requiring a Master Seal, just hit level 10 (easy enough to do if you're feeding her flier kills and letting her do chip damage) and rank up a few Bond levels with Leif. Depending on how you play, she benefits very highly from the Edelgard bracelet, access to Failnaught for sniping Fliers (which also gets bonus damage from being a Covert unit) and Areadbhar pairs really well with her high Strength. She also gets access to Fallen Star and Shield Gambit (though the latter is RNG dependent) to avoid enemy attacks on Enemy Phase, making it much safer for her and she can deal a ton of damage with Houses Unite. If you don't use DLC, Sigurd for Canter is very good for Etie, as well as Corrin for on demand Fog or the Lyn ring (but Lyn is HIGHLY contested, there are other units that benefit from it far more). You might even consider giving her the Celica Meal inherit, since it synergizes with her personal skill and will completely refill her Engage meter (though you really need Seadall/Byleth to make full use out of this strat, other stat inherits are probably better for her). Definitely look into giving her a Speed inherit later on though, as while she won't get doubled too frequently, she also struggles to meet thresholds in the late game, especially against speedsters like Swordmasters and Griffin Knights. But yeah, if you want a Thief unit that won't fall off in terms of damage, Thief Etie is the way to go. She's much more reliable offensively than Yunaka (trading crits for raw damage), dodge tanks better than Zelkov (because she'll rarely have total avoid, meaning enemies on Maddening will still attack her).
She's good without stat boosters. I play no stat boosters/dlc/well and she is usually one of my best units. Really high strength plus easily fixable speed is great.
Funny thing about swordmaster is that Griffin knight is basically just swordmaster, except you can pick their weapon type, it gets staffs, and it flies. They have nearly the same class growths and class stats.
@@DaniDoyle I went back and checked and it’s even worse for swordmaster than I thought, because Griffin knight has 1 more strength, 2 more magic, 1 more dex, 6 more res, and 1 more luck, and swordmaster only has 1 more build for all that. Like yeah idk how much 1 point stat differences matter, but griffin is just blatantly better.
Celine is honestly one of my favorite units to use purely because of her niche of being a Mystical Unit that can use Forgable Swords (aka literally just Marth/Sigurd exclusive funnies)
being a filthy dlc user i love slapping soren on her, squeezing every last drop of hitrate and skill that i can, and going for bolting crits/ignis/maybe-both??? it aint super reliable but it's close enough lmao
In my current playthrough, I'm using her long term because big dress is funny. She has worse stats across the board than pandreo but i benched him because shes funnier. 😂
@@DaniDoyle In my current run, I gave her some Build with Leif and Speedtaker, she can reliably double slower enemies with Bolg and has 4 possible Ignis procs when using the Engage attack. She's no mage carry, but she's probably the best Leif carrier in the game.That is, as long as a Sword unit doesn't force her to use Master Lance with Adaptable. Definitely feels as though she's falling off as the game progresses though, she's already Second Sealed back to lvl1 Vidamme but other units who haven't been Second Sealed are overtaking her.
What's interesting about Engage's tier list is that the top 11 units are basically always the same. The order they are in might vary but it's pretty much always the same people. But the lower tiers vary a ton.
@DaniDoyle I think he is very funny. However, I do have a conspiracy theory that his and Etie's growths were accidentally switched during development. Like what is the axe fighter doing with all that dex and speed growth, and what is that archer doing with all that strength growth.
Very glad you mentioned Martial Master Alear. She uses Lucina really well, and I also think she’s a pretty solid staffer due to having convoy access. If for some reason you aren’t using Hortensia/Jean, there are worse healers to choose from…
Wait you didn’t make Lapis a wyvern and gave her every stat booster, special engraved weapon and the pack ring? What are you saying I’m biased? No I’m dedicated.
Sniper Citrinne IS a meme imo. She gets doubled by everything WITH Lyn bond 9 AND Speed +3 because the radiant bow is INSANELY heavy. She's just essentially an Astra storm button that can only do good job at one rounding armor knights, which most other mages can do. Citrinne IS good, but I think she'd be better off on B really.
She has significant speed issues, late game she can’t even double armors in Sage (idk about Mage Knight, don’t remember lol). But her build is bad so it really holds her back. Something she can do at that point is switch to Bow Knight or Sniper since her magic gains from Sage/MageKnight are really high, letting her hit benchmarks for one rounding armors and fliers. Doubling any enemies that aren’t armors is definitely not the job of Sniptrinne, she’s pretty much a dedicated flier killer. Which is fine with me because enemy fliers in this game are extremely good and annoying
You have a tier for solid short term and Yunaka isn’t there hanging out at the bottom? I don’t think she’s a particularly excellent unit long term absent favoritism but like a cheap forge on her iron dagger and she’ll be doing what you need to do until she can’t and by the system you put in your tiering she is undeniably solid short term.
etie got speed blessed in my first run so she is objectively the best unit in the game, and actually the entire series, leaving seth, sigurd, and the likes in the dust
I wholeheartedly agree with Bunet getting a tier to himself. The one time I really tried to make him work, he got a ton of exp and investment just to barely work as a filler unit. And by being a greedy investment glutton, he made everyone competing for those resources bad too. I didn't just get a bad unit for my trouble, I got like 3 or 4 bad units. I hate him so much.
I'm surprised that Anna scored so low. While she needs some favoritism early on in order to get some early levels and change into a tier 2 class, but once she's changed into a reasonable class I found that she scaled incredibly well and did not need any other resources in order to become extremely powerful. So in terms of investment I found her to require less than most others, and yet she out-performs most other units thanks to her high speed and magic.
Not me spending 2 hours watching a video about ranking characters knowing full well that I'm just gonna do the same thing indo every time and hyper invest into the cute girls regardless of how good or bad they are.
thinking more about yunaka its like: just forge a steel dagger its literally the only dagger that exists and even if you drop yunaka you can just. give it to zelkov or merrin or anyone you make a wolf knight
Most of not all of the growths and bases you mentioned uses unit+class growth and bases instead of just unit growth and bases, which might change some units in the tier list
I would like to give my two cents for celine > clanne ; getting swords in her base class lets her grab a levin sword from a forge and have basically no contest on it, and it does pretty awesome damage to the early enemies.
Problem is that it weighs Celine down by 7 until she raises bld and she’s still only doing comparable damage to a unit like Citrine. Who is also slow, but has higher magic.
@@samkeiser9776early game if you pair her with Sigurd it doesn’t weigh her down as much, and you can use the levin sword for head long rush, and with the mystic boost it does crazy damage.
I swear, Jade is the most overlooked character in this game, as people generally almost instantly throw her away without having a single look at her and this pains me alot.
Anna has alternate reasons to put the effort into buiding, in that she can produce a lot of money if you put the extra effort into making her a strong unit, and she can technically be in sage or high priest before chapter 11 if you power level her with miciah. At that point her magic growth is like 80% and will be one of your top units. Yes it is a lot of extra work to get her there, other units can do what she does for far less effort...but those units aren't funneling you cash at the same time. So it just matters if you care about needing the extra cash, which is pretty tight on maddening.
@@Jake-cm9jj you dont even really need mechia to power level her either 10 kills where she finishes off the foe gets her to promote level amd you can meet that pretty easy with vander while hes still around then you can use mechia and celica to get her into almost every promoted job with no dlc and with tiki you can get her into high preist
I don't get Timerra slander. She's trash in her join map, but after you promote her she has virtually the same offensive stats as merrin minus build and the best defensive stats out of anyone with that kind of speed.
@DaniDoyle Timerra's defense is 18 to merrin's 12. Picket's base defense is 10, the highest for any basic class outside of armors is only 6. Kagetsu has a higher personal defense, but he still has less than timerra on anything you actually want to run him on. And without a second seal, that strength lead isn't real, so I don't see how you can dock timerra on the master seal.
As a Citrinne enjoyer, I approve of her high placing, really interesting idea to just make her a radiant bow user too. That said, bit sad Anna so low since I gave her a radiant bow as well and she absolutely one-shots everything. I wanted to check because I was curious, and a lvl 1 Citrinne Sniper vs lvl 1 Anna Sniper (so both internal lvl 9), Anna has lower Mag and Luck to start, but by the nature of Anna's base growths vs Citrinne's, Anna kinda just becomes better in every stat by midgame (except Mag again, but only down by like 2 or 1 point mostly). That mostly just means I value Anna quite highly just as the Citrinne in this tier list would be put.
One of my favorite things each playthrough now is you can turn any high personal speed unit (especially Lapis and Fogado) into monsters late-game with the class swap to Martial Master with Lunar Brace (inherited or Eirika-equipped) and Flashing Fists/speed stacking. Lunar brace alone with quad-hitting wipes most everything out even if they did 0x4 normally, and they have the A staves and chi guard. It’s such a nice salvage for no-damage units to become delete buttons with utility.
Very good tier list, well explained and well thought out, LTCers are in shambles. Just have a few things I wanna contribute to the discussion cause engage is a fun game to talk about. Morbius makes a pretty decent radiant bow sniper just like Citrinne. He's actually better than her in every stat by a pretty huge margin except for magic by only 1 or 2 points, which is arguably the only stat that really matters in this comparison. But still another thing that Morbius can do with little investment. (This is assuming that you're both comparing them at internal level 31, and that you reclassed citrinne into a sniper at internal level 19 once you get the radiant bow in chapter 14) Also the Timerra copium train is real and I'm on it. Timerra really wants a lance that doesn't weigh her down, and unfortunately her starting inventory does not help with that, but if you give her a steel lance with a Sigurd engraving she starts performing way better due to its low weight. Also if you promote her after her joining chapter she has 20 spd and if you give her a bond ring or a meal or spd+2 she can actually double a majority of the enemies on chapter 14, and can even avoid being doubled and TANK (very valuable trust me) those fucker wolf knights. Though now looking at her damage on this chapter even with a steel lance + 3 with Sigurd engraving she can't even one round those goober lance fighters, god fucking damn it. BUT STILL she performs pretty decently with what I think is not too much investment, and with the Sigurd ring momentum can help her reach damage thresholds a bit more consistently, and the extra build helps her not get weighed down as much by her lances. Still D tier probably but in my soul I think she's better than Rosado. Also also the GOAT Vander in my opinion is better than Louis when comparing them both short term. Louis is probably better long term but there's a fun wrath vantage build vander can do with his personal + Alear support + leif back up bonus. But basically early game Louis is doing a constant balancing act of not wanting his def to be too high because then the enemies will just ignore him, and if you give him the Sigurd ring his def will definitely be too high and thus make him useless on the enemy phase. His res and spd is also terrible which means he will be perfectly one rounded by every mage in the early chapters, and even though they're not super common it definitely makes Louis less flexible when it comes to tanking. The living legend Vander on the other hand has good mixed bulk, great movement and amazing HP, and with the Sigurd ring he doesn't need to worry about being ignored by enemies whilst making the already easy early game even easier with his increased mobility, def and atk. People might say its a waste having Sigurd on Vander cause you want the increased SP gain on other units your training, but like do you really want to be training any of the early game units? Most of them are scrubs and will be benched for Ivy and Godgetsu, so I would argue that the easiest strategy for the early game is to not even bother training units like Alfred or Etie and just opt to use the best unit at the time like Vander.
I played this game a year ago and honestly I'm glad my feelings mellowed out over time because the game has it's charms. It's by no means a bad game, it's just so much felt so shoehorned into the final third of the game.
I do think you underrated Veyle here, without DLC she has an extremely easy path to being a super solid mage for the rest of the game. She has SP for speed+3 and speedtaker (and 500 SP from spd+5) and Sigurd gives her everything she wants from there, Canter, bld that's effectively speed so she doesn't get slowed down by Bolganone, a bit more hit rate and bulk and it's Sigurd lmao. Reclass to mage knight of course, Second Seals aren't a big deal at this point of the game, and you've got a super hard hitting fast mage Something that does suck is that she gets oneshot by wyrms even with a tonic because her base HP is so bad, a sacred robe (probably the one from Eirika's paralogue if you bother getting it) does fix this. Also other units could want Sigurd, maybe Celica or even the Lilina S ring would work fine though I never tried
I agree with the tier list for the most part, but I think Boucheron and Rosado should swap and Jade should be demoted. It feels really weird to say someone's actively worse than Bunet, but Jade is essentially a Bunet who wants an early Master Seal which is awful. Her payoff is slightly higher than Bunet since she can inherit pre 11 skills and her proficiency is better, but the fact she needs an early Master Seal to become Bunet solidifies her as the worst Engage unit imo.
I like boucheron, but there’s No getting around the fact that he’s legitimately terrible. He has a comparable strength growth as an axe fighter to mage clanne and pegasus Chloé, he has no magic growth at all, his other growths are not noteworthy among early game units. And it’s not like his early contributions make up for that, he’s like the one early game unit with basically no niche at all. Framme and Jean are Qi adepts. Vander and Louis are tanky and hit hard Etie shoots down fliers. Celine and Clanne have magic. Chloé is fast and flies. And Alear and Boucheron do mediocre melee combat. But at least Alear’s personal skill is more significant than early game chain attacks. Alear has marth bond, is a decent target of investment due to being forced, And has better growths. And Alfred at least has lances for coverage, better movement, and better growths. Besides, Boucheron needs more than 18 levels to strength tie base Amber. His strength growth is legitimately terrible and he’s not fast enough to make up for his strength being so low.
I feel like Alfred is if Franz was in a game with more competition, can work out really well if fed a lot but can fall flat really quickly due to their bases
I don't get why you're so hung up on keeping Etie a Sniper anc calling her "B-Tier". when you can Reclass her to a Warrior watch her performance skyrocket. Warrior gives her enough to Bld to carry Silver weapons, improves her Spd and doubles down on her Str. She's supposed to be a raw Atk monster, not a Crit Fisher. My Etie equipped with a Silver Bow+3 sits at 51 Atk, 26 BASE Spd and mroe Bld than she needs. She's been an ORKO monster for the vast majority of the game and I didn't even feed her any Energy Drops nor Speedwings. She is an amazing Unit as a Warrior and your refusal to try things out only calls the validity of these "guides" of yours into question, because you're actively giving people bad advice by relegating Etie to a "B-Tier" Unit when she can easily reach "S-Tier" with the proper setup, which you refuse to test. Sorry, but that's a thumbs down from me for spreading misinformation
For Etie to have 26 spd and 51+ atk she would need to be around internal level 40 to reach those stats, and generally you won’t get to level 40 till the very last map. So when comparing these stats to end game enemies they’re actually not that great. With 26 spd she cannot double anything except armours, and even if you give her Lyn to boost her spd she actually cannot do enough damage to one round any enemy except for fliers. If you got these stats earlier than level 40 then you probably got a very stat blessed Etie, or funnelled an absurd amount of experience into her to get her to level 40. On average Etie cannot one round most enemies throughout the game due to her low spd, and saying she’s good if she has the Lyn ring is not a great argument because everyone is good with the Lyn ring.
Enemies refusing to attack a unit they have 0 hit on helps make solo runs even more optimal than they already are, since them ignoring you doesn't matter then. I recall the alear solo run exploiting perfect avoid to trivialize maps.
Yunaka starting out with micaiah is a huge deal since the micaiah grind is locked to her for a chapter and that chapter has numerous blue tiles. Together with seeing a lot of combat due to forged daggers and her high stats she is easily getting enough sp for some nice skills before the ring loss. Haven't really played much since the well so I don't know if it changes things.
Yes my girl merrin getting her due! 2 things I would like to mention for her is that Kagetsu does “technically” have 2 chapters on merrin but he joins on at most the last 2 turns of ch 11 so he doesn’t really do much there, and ch 12 he’s just stuck as either a swordmaster or sword paladin (or bow knight if you wanted him to shoot down ch 13 fliers I guess” but I honestly I think merrin’s position and being a wolf knight with a silver dagger at base allows her to do more in ch 13 then Kagetsu does in ch 11 and 12 combined, And another option for merrin’s funny magic stat is the Hurricane axe, if your going warrior then it doesn’t really mean much since you get radiant bow which does better for stuff like armors then Hurricane but it gets the job done for dealing with hell fliers. for wyvern it does set her apart from the other wyvern options since hurricane axe has even more power then radiant bow, going last with hurricane doesn’t mean much on ep, and if you have vantage or leif then you can go first with it as well on ep. So she has almost as good phy offense as Kagetsu (and the difference is rather minor in the first place) and gets Hurricane for dealing with multiple fliers on ep, or even going axe wolf for dealing with fliers via hurricane and pre late game cavs with halberd since the only swords that help her in wolf knight are forged steel blade for engage attacks and levin sword for pre late game armors, stronger engage attacks and chipping mid - late game armors vs being able to beat fliers for the rest of the game and destroying mid game cavs With that said I really really like this list, I think I would have citrinne and Amber above Chloe, but most of my stuff is just some swapping around within tiers, great list and thanks for the upload!! Edit another thing for the lost investment part is that if she does get once of your emblems ( one fo the lower demand damage fix ones) like Roy or erikia and a steel dagger plus 4 or 5 (pretty cheap) can keep her running for pretty much the rest of the game without much trouble, she already has gentility sp if you go Roy (one of my personal favorite options thanks to the plus mov for being a cav plus huge str and buffed defenses is just such a good time)
DLC Thoughts Nel - keep in her base class. Best Byleth emblem wielder (veyle and alear have better things to do) and it’s not even close. A Tier. Rafal - good tank - think Alear with less spd and more str. Uses dragon typing v well with the more endurance focused emblems. Can do funny things with Soren too due to having a crit based personal skill. B tier Gregory - fantastic sniper for 20 range shining bow shenans given he’s got passable spd/skl in sniper and really benefits from getting a starsphere to make all his stats good with great magic. B tier but could make an argument for C Madeline - monstrous str/def. Pitiful everything else. C tier at a stretch but like Gregory needs starsphere and a spd/skill based class to push growths to an acceptable amount for being able to hit anything ever but doesn’t get the 20 range shining bow sniper shit greggy do. Zelestia - S tier. Absurd fucking unit. Flying tomes and swords. absurd speed, everything else is good or fine given that maddening does fixed growths. They’re a mixed bag but on the whole good units.
@@neongrey333try griffin, it’s basically Swordsmaster but better in every way. Alternatively wolf knight is also better than Swordmaster is basically every meaningful way. Unless you’re considering caps IG but griffin actually does have straight up better caps than Swordmaster.
@@samkeiser9776 yeah its something i'll deffo look into next time i use her; they're all roughly equivalent statswise (especially since she's not gonna cap speed or dex) but i wanted to fool around a little with run through. ideally you of course dont want her with a sword at all but eh, i like them and it's one weird choice in a run full of them lmao
Engage is so neat to me becauze it's super linear on maddening with clearly defined goals, niches etc yet it's a lot harder to "solve" than comparable games like Sacred Stones. I mostly agree with this list but I think you're slightly underrating a couple of the C tiers, namely Celine and Lapis. It can be hard to find EXP for them early on and Lapis is in a terrible starting class, but they're both pretty self-sufficient in terms of seals (Celine wants to be in Vidame anyway and Lapis only needs a second seal to rock out in Thief where she actually does really well). They're both early game units that give you big payoffs later on for sticking with them, Celine as your Byleth bot (Sage Citrinne works for this too) and Lapis as by far the best Roy user in the cast, which is nice since he isnt a super in-demand emblem. I think people just kind of don't know what to do with Lapis because she seems to be the second-best option for a lot of the best units in the game (Chloe, Kagetsu, and Merrin) but she fills all those roles pretty effectively to be bottom of C tier imo. I'd move Celine to low B and Lapis to a tier between A and B for long-term role players, which is where I'd also stick Citrinne and Framme. Also I think Amber is not that good lol
I agree that generally Celine is super underrated, since she has a unique niche of being a mystical unit with access to the Levin sword, but I am interested in why you think Lapis is underrated because idk if I agree. How exactly is Lapis the best unit in the cast to use Roy? I cannot really think of any stand out traits that she has that is not shared or out shined by other members of the cast. Roy also disappears for about half of the game so Lapis will have to contend with other far more in-demand emblems for the mid/late game if she wants to keep up stat and SP wise. Lapis also joins with only 500SP so to be able to get canto before losing Sigurd you'll need to really grind her to get 5 levels or hope you got enough SP books from the well. I could possibly argue that she should be in D tier because I see her has very underwhelming but there might be something that I'm not considering.
@@DangitronepasVI9Roy's lack of availability definitely hurts her, but she's kind of self-sufficient as that coveted dodge tank who doesn't reach zero enemy hit during the interim so enemies will still get stuck on her on maddening. In thief, all her growths other than strength are above average, and Roy suits her especially well because she has high speed, high avoid, and very high crit dodge but needs her HP and strength patched up, which is unique among the cast other than Chloe, who usually wants a higher demand emblem like Eirika.
I seem to have had better luck with her than others so YMMV, but I usually don't give her any favoritism other than one energy drop and she's basically self sufficient. I think she improves in ironman conditions because she's the go to if you lose any of Chloe, Kagetsu and Zelkov/Merrin, which incentivizes you to keep her around as a filler unit through at least Solm
While I get everything, I would like to argue that access to poison and how nutty wolf knight can get with Yunaka I feel like she should be at least to B, though if it causes her to become too dodgy then I think it is alright for C.
I actually made my kagetsu a sniper. This was around when I looked online for a vague idea of who was good because like, half my team was garbage. People said "Kagetsu can be whatever you want him to be" and I needed a bow after etie, uh, failed to do anything meaningful.
I know in fates the change in gender is big in the way you play, even if the two are very close (basically do you care about having a good earlygame investment target or having an insane pair up bot for Corn), but it's super similar to alear in that female corn is ever so slightly better (mostly because she can be a mom to any gen 2 unit in the game
True, i often forget about the parent upside, its a good use of her "talent" considering corrin can get most classes from friendship so reclassing is fine for them
@DaniDoyle There's also the fact that of the gender locked classes in the base game, the male one is legitimately significantly better overall since lances are generally better than bows on routes where it matters and it's better at combat since it can enemy phase with renewal as opposed to relying on mini bow. I think male and female corn are super well balances
My opinions on units as I get through the video (if I have something to say): Alear is just a solid unit all around that can fullfill any role you need them to. Also I prefer MAlear because I think he has the better EN voice performance Really the big thing that condemns Vendor to being a short term early game unit for most people is his starting Internal Level of 15, meaning he won't be getting much XP/SP for the first 7ish maps and by the time he does everyone else has caught up, surpassed or is better at base than him. And just to put into perspective just how high his IL is, he has the the same IL as Kagetsu, Pandreo, Bunnet, Merrin, Panette, Rossado and Goldmarry Clanne feels like he was designed to have his magic be carried by his starting class and was given a high strenght growth so he would be ready for mage knight, and a little too much, if he had something like 20-25% personal magic growth then it could've worked Framme/arts would be so much better/more fun if Arts targeted the lower of an enemy defense/resistance Boucheron's personal skill feels really weird, it makes him deal more damage when supported by a chain attack, problem is he's the only chain attacker for the next 7 chapters! It feels like the devs wanted him to be the chain attack guy and originally wanted to make his skill boost his CA damage, but changed it to what it is now when reclassing was introduced so it wouldn't be "restrictive" (boo hoo he wants to be in the best class in the game to use his personal skill) Chloe is in the same situation as Radiant Dawn Jill where her stats and growths don't make her stand out too from other units in terms of combat, with the only reason why she's considered the best target is that she's a flier If thief didn't work so weird in Engage and Yunaka could promote before level 21 (seriously why is there no Assasin promotion in this game, it fits both Yunaka and Zelkov perfectly) I could see her placing much higher, like 1 to 2 tiers higher Timera is also probably Leif's best user since she needs his Build boost and because she's a lance she more than likely already gonna have a 2 range lance in her inventory so Leif can't fuck her over with the Master Lance The thing that makes Panette a better late game CritVantage Warior than Amber is that her personal skill gives her 10 extra crit when she's not full HP so she's slightly more reliable than him WHY DOES LINDON HAVE 2 MORE BASE STRENGHT THAN ROSADO?!
I really appreciate that you ignore DLC in your tier lists. As someone who owns none of it, Engage unit discussion can be really annoying cause whenever people say "just early Tiki" or "Starsphere" to fix unit issues - idk what they're talking about lmao
Well, I'm right before the final map now (Hard/Classic/Random), and I inherited Starsphere on Ivy right after she joined - and now she's capped everything besides Luck, Strength, and Build.... just one example what Starsphere can do to a unit..... The worst part about the DLC though is that you have to replay FX every time you wanna use the DLC-units (unlike CS in 3H), which can be a real hassle..... but as someone who enjoys using both Nel and the Enchanter-Class I push through nonetheless.....
I'm kinda surprised more people dont float the idea of Lindon as a low maintenance late game crit warrior with a pocket Radiant Bow, Warrior does a lot of heavy lifting for the strength stat and Killer Axe counts for his personal on 99% enemies for the rest of the game and high enough SP to immediately inherit Wrath. His direct to warrior stats are pretty comparable to fogado woth a tradeoff of some st and spe for some ma and dex
Engage money is almost never in short supply, with massive gold dumps at multiple points in the game. The only point at which it is slightly restrictive is the early game, which cant be solved by anna because her base luck is super low (and she needs 2 seals to go into a functional class, making her actually be gold negative for quite some time)
@@DaniDoyle Fair enough! I like the extra money just to be safe. I also just got to the Timerra segment, and I’m incredibly surprised by how low she is (both her offense and defense were great for me, easily one of my best units) but i know not all playthroughs n experiences are universal and objective, lol. I’d still argue she’s still better than D tier though, feel like she’s a fair bit better than bencharon imo
I know Covert Byleth is nice, but I also really like Veyle Byleth: I find the extra +3 Strength/Magic and +6 accuracy from Dragon more impactful than extra +2 Speed ; as you said, there are more ways to fix Speed than damage in the late game. (As an aside, she uses the extra Magic from Byleth better than most Covert units, and also makes pretty good use of the Vajra-Mushti.)
I still find it strange that people don't mention Griffin Knight for Anna when talking about her. Flying, 65% Mag growth and 70% Speed growth using Levin sword is fantastic! Occasional staff utility is just the cherry on top. Yes, she needs initial investment and a bit of exp feeding to get going, but the payoff is there and she snowballs by herself once she overcomes her rough start. I agree that she's not top tier, but putting her so low is a crime. :P 1 Second seal, 1 weapon and maybe an Inherited Skill is not too much to ask, is it?
Am I the only person who likes Bunet? My 1st playthrough was on hard mode, amd i tried using him, and he was blessed by the gods with his level ups. In the endgame, he was 1 shotting, or 1 rounding almost everything, and took almost no damage from non magic attacks. I know i just got lucky, but it made me love him lol
You talking about thief promotions gave me an idea for their potential promoted class: Hunter Infantry class with A(+) bows and B(+) knives. More strength and slightly more bulk than Wolf knight (the other promotion option) but with less speed. Skill: Finisher Doubles crit rate against broken enemies.
Oh yeah, and the tier list is very solid. I think Fogado should be A since he’s the best Eirika user with very little investment (mounted brave bow is very nice). I’d also argue for swapping Alfred and Boucheron, but they don’t really matter.
I would argue that there is a big difference between lapis and diamont. Diamont has has more hp and def than lapis, allowing him to survive fighting more than 1 enemy at a time. Diamont also has like 4-5 more build which allows him to use heavy weapons more effectively than lapis.
@DaniDoyle I don't think that argument stands when almost every unit wants to reclass and you have better options with the limited second seals. Until they get replaced, diamont will be a lot more reliable than lapis.
@@phoenixgemini42 i don't think you use either of them without reclassing them. If youre not spending a seal on them, you're probably not fielding them
I honestly believe Seadall is the only FE unit who has a strong case for being the best unit in their respective game, availability is really the main argument against it, but as we can see from the list there aren't many other super good units that join many maps before him. In addition to everything you said, the stuff about the cast being very homogenous and interchangeable makes such a critical and unique support unit better in relation to the rest of the cast. Especially physical carries like Kagetsu/Panette are not that much better than the physical carries in A tier, in a reasonably casual run you'll barely notice the difference in many cases. I could still see the argument for the Elysian royalty above him because their contributions are super good and pretty difficult to replicate too, but he's minimum top 3 in my opinion.
Amazing tier list but celine is ur only mage in a few chapters and the best celica user until citrine joins, At least she deserves 1st in C tier or the lowest b
Clanne exists so shes not your ONLY mage, but being one of only 2 is valuable for sure... I personally just don't see it as being a huge deal since it's only for three maps, none of which are particularly hard IMO
This is a great tier list. I've been playing no paralogues efficiency for like 10 playthroughs and this is really close to my tier list. I don't think there's an F tier and D tier is a one/two man show. Frankly, there's not much difference between units if they're not hitting dura/offense benchmarks anyway. I think Bunet is better than some of the potential-bereft project characters because he can at least contribute some okay stats/promoted utility while you're still waiting for master seals. Thanks for not underrating Louis and barely overrating Lapis. Those are my two hills I've survived on, repeatedly.
Excuse you, its actually LADY Anna 😭 As for Citrinne though, i had a BLAST giving her Hold Out, Vantage, and a super forged Thoron, and then throwing her at whatever i was scared of :3
I actually managed to get some situational filler combat out of Framme, particularly as a mage killer. This was on hard though, Maddening might be a different story, and my Framme might have just been blessed with good level ups.
I benched etie once I made clanne a bowknight. I actually did it at light speed. Also, ik my yunaka is absurd rn but I'm curious what like the normal placement is. Like, she is sitting at 18 str and 18 def/res rn lol. She face tanked tiki in her paralogue
Second seals become available starting in chapter 9. This means an early reclass is not possible, meaning you would want to promote and reclass him if you were going to reclass (so he's not stuck with unpromoted growths) and thats a ton of investment to get a mediocre physical unit, especially close to some on the best physical units joining for free. Realistically, the best way for him to contribute is as an early mage, both because seals arive late and because hitting on res early is a niche.
Me: *struggled a bit during my first playthrough* Also Me: *used only Chloé and Mauvier from the first 3 tiers and had Boucheron and Bunet both on my team* Ooohhhh
I almost CHOKED when you called Mauvier as Morbius 🤣 So I’m doin Hard Casual and over chapter 17 or 18 and this is how I rank my current units. 1. Zelkov is my greatest tank with the axe WolfKnight class :) 2. Was shocked where you set Alcryst since he’s my 2nd best tank :0 3. Hmm yeah Ivy’s great, pretty no-brainer 4. Kagetsu is another great no-brainer 5. I would set Seadall here I think. Another awesome no-brainer 6. Amber is pretty OK; personally wanted him to be great after alcryst but perhaps I should feed him speed boosts 7. Pandreo is pretty solid, but is actually replacing Jean while I’m training/building my Jean to level 10 to get a master seal ha 8. Just like you paired Lapis and Diamant, I’d do Merrin and Diamant at the same level down here. Again, struggling to build Diamant.. :( And then 9 to last is the remaining cast.
@@DaniDoyle Oh I should have clarified that I meant her promoted class which gets her staves and ignis. I have not used celine (got her killed sadly) but assume those things might be somewhat significant.
I literally do talk about her promoted class giving swords staffs and tomes. ignis does not impact her enough to bear mentioning though, I didnt mention Alfred or Fogado's class skills either because the video is already super long.
anyway finally watched the whole thing lmao and yeah deffo agree a lot comes to playstyle; i think my personal big divergence is that im just much more enthusiastic about playing for the odds on stuff like crit/luna, crit/sandstorm probability confluences, etc (mumblemumblecrit/ignismumblemumble) since once skill gets high enough 'yeah something will probably fire at least once' is good enough for me lmao but really i cant even argue with your placements because 'will just kill the thing' _is_ absolutely better than relying on probability math to do the job for you lmao
definitely don't understand why you wouldn't consider yunaka a solid short term filler unit right after talking about how her starting class/weapon type makes her stronger than all your other units until you start promoting them/getting prepromotes? your entire rationale for her lower placement is that she falls off but then you literally put vander and louis up there anyway lmao
Dude Anna is super strong… Not bouche strong, but i created that monster in a lab and fed him books, potions and shit. J frankenstined that man to become the Bouche God, and my regrets = 0
Funny how the "beat the game" tierlist is very similar to the "efficiency" tier list, almost like efficiency isn't the only objective method... Anyway agree with most everything just judging from the list (still have to watch) I just think (especially in text; on youtube rarely is "efficiency" the main criteria, it's mainly a forum thing) people could use more normal judgment criteria. But does end up similar regardless so.
I actually prefer efficiency tier lists since their system of evaluating units is far more defined and concrete than the “beat the game” tier lists, which metrics are far more vague and subjective. Obviously efficiency tier lists are subjective in their own way, but measuring how many turns a unit saves you verses how well a unit made the game easier for you personally, it’s clear that measuring turns is definitely a better and less subjective way to compare units. What is easier or harder is going to vary wildly depending on the player, and because of that these tier lists basically just employ efficiency type limitations such as “no grinding” or no “favouritism” so to seem more objective. But who’s to say if one strategy is easier than another. I find using micaiah to grind Anna to mk to be very easy with great returns mid to late game making the game far easier for me. But here Dani says she finds it as a hassle and difficult. One person in this comment section was talking about how they felt Lapis was underrated cause they found her high spd great for a dodge tanking build, which they felt made the game easier for them. Though another person could easily find it too difficult to stop lapis from having too much avoid that she’d be ignored by enemies. Also taking turn count into account is important, because if we don’t then there really is no difference between a unit that kills an enemy in one turn than a unit that takes 5 turns to kill the same enemy. Who cares how many turns it took, as long as the enemy is dead then the result is the same if we disregard turn count.
The DLC characters are all kinda broken particularly because you can get them super early, (just do the xenolouge on normal.) Zelestia is Ivy but better, except she doesn’t have staves, she has better growths in basically every way, better bases in basically everything and joins earlier potentially if you do Xenolouge early. Unlike Ivy she has absolutely no speed issues, because she has a 65% growth in her personal class and a significantly higher speed base, and Ivy’s magic growth is only 10% higher (counting class growths.) She can easily destroy the entire game and I don’t even think she needs support if you recruit her early, she also has a really funny class skill, which makes her swords deal damage into foes’s (def+res)/2 which kinda just makes her levin swords worse, but you can do something like give her Roy and have her use the binding blade like a pseudo Levin sword. Her strength is also good for the record. She’s actually insane. Nel and Rafal will also be really good if you get them early, their special classes have bad stats, (20 hp 5 in everything else) but dragon stones are kinda good, and their bases are actually still competent in their base classes, so if you were to reclass them they’d get a ton more stats, Rafal, the “slow” one, has a personal speed stat of 11 at base, and 15 personal defense and 14 strength. You can reclass them, or keep them in their personal classes to use dragon stones, particularly the ruin stone is a 1-2 range 6 mt weapon that effectively always triggers luna, it weighs 12 but both Nel and Rafal have 8 and 9 bld respectively so that’s not really much of an issue. Gregory is just better Citrine and Madeline is just better Louise, stat wise anyway. Madeline is the most likely to fall off because she has terrible speed and res growths, and she has unimpressive speed and res bases, her dex is also pretty bad, though idk maybe she could still be a vantage warrior, it really depends on how far a general/unit with nothing to offer but hp, str, and def can take you. Gregory has Innate staffs, good bases, and some crazy res and magic growths, his other growths aren’t as bad as madeline’s. He’s basically (what if Citrinne had unreasonable bases and slightly more exaggerated growths. He does have 10 def personally, and crazy high res and magic, so yeah he’s definitely op.
How have you made your Alfreds scale? I found every single time I try to invest in him, he falls off hard because he has issues hitting doubling thresholds and fails to do more than 30% on most enemies after chapter 15.
Good tierlist but Boucheron and Yunaka should switch place imo, I find Yunaka really useless while Boucheron is the only support class you have early game, really carrying those early Maddening maps where you struggle to deal damages. Also I don't think Framme is only an early game unit, she is one of if not THE best Lucina user with her good supports and passive giving her a shit ton of avo. (I know it's a 7 months old video but I felt like commenting anyway lol)
I really like engage. Most of all, it proved to me that intelligent systems is all good on HD development, which was in question after three houses ugly ass lmfao
I believe you are talking about Diamant vs Lapis, in which case you have the numbers wrong. Assuming the same class, Lapis has -3 hp, +1 str, -1 dex, +1 speed, -2 build (so -1 AS in most cases), -2 luck, -1 defense, +1 res. These numbers are not that big a deal outside of LTC specifically where the +1 strength allows lapis to hit several important benchmarks (and my list doesn't account for LTC). -3 HP/-1 Defense arguably could matter but its still not a huge bulk difference. I think for all intents and purposes, they are the same unit.
@DaniDoyle except they're not in the same class and those massive difference in stats are the reality outside of the vacuum of personal bases. You can't look at them on their own, especially when diamant's class is unique and the main use case people advocate for him involves said personal class.
Both of these units want to second seal out of their bad starting classes and into Wyvern something like or Great Knight.If you're not reclassing them, they are not worth using, as swordmaster is the worst class in the game, and successor/hero are nearly as bad. anything Lapis can do with a reclass Diamant can. In a game qhere reclassing is practically free and most units want a reclass, personal stats matter.
Great list! I'm kinda sad you don't see how good Timerra can be with minimal investment but all the same I enjoyed watching. Timerra gives people a terrible first impression because her build and starting equipment don't let her strengths show. All it takes is speed +3, a master seal to get into Picket and a decent lance engrave to make her a stable, reliable bruiser. I know I just stated like 3 things but every unit in this game is like that. And her emblem flexibility is massive. Byleth, Roy, Sigurd, Eirika, and Ike all give her multiple different build options. She doesn't have to rely on Sandstorms the same way Alcryst does with Luna. Check out Iced Coffee gaming for late game demonstrations if you need proof. 😅 Finally, fuck Bunet. All my homies hate Bunet.
Iced Coffee Gaming is a misogynist who has personally harassed me, but more to the point he's also just wrong about timerra. Investment makes her usable, as is the case for every unit, but it doesn't make her anything special. Even with investment her combat will be disappointing. Give Bunet a reclass, a forge, and a +3 speed and he'll be usable too (probably perform better than timera would)
Engage is both my most played, and probably my favorite FE, and im really glad you mentioned that both everyone requires investment, and that playstyle greatly affects rankings. I absolutely adore Lapis as both a character and as a unit, and i have used her in every single playthrough of Engage. She always has an early Emblem, gets a forged and engraved weapon, and gets unrestricted access to the first energy drop or two. This makes her frequently the best unit in my army for the early and midgame, and depending on my build for her, she can continue to contribute into the lategame. That being said i think i would only put her slightly higher within C tier. While everybody needs investment, its undeniable that amber can do most of the combat lapis could do, but with less of those early resources, especially the strength drops. Vantage killing and dodge tanking are two sides of the same coin, a strong physical enemy phaser. Even though in my example, Amber cannot dodge tank like Lapis can, they both end up sitting on a fort and enemy phasing enemies on chapter 9, so even with different means of achieving this, Amber uses less resources to succeed in this role. It feels like the average Engage unit discourser does exactly what i explained that i do with Lapis, but then argues that the payoff of becoming the strongest unit in the army after that investment warrants that they are an A or S tier character. Yes, Pandreo still wants skills and emblems too, but he wants LESS than say Celine, and thats part of what makes him better. How good an Engage unit is is more about how many resources it costs to make them a killing machine, rather than IF its possible. This way that Engage allows for, and in some ways almost encourages, favoritism with its massive pool of various limited rescources, seems to make the game have a very toxic unit discussion which i find odd. A game where your favorites can carry in a variety of roles on the highest difficulty is part of what i love about this game. ANY unit can become the strongest team member and thats fun. Timerra is not A tier because when you gave her half of all your rescources and held back your army to let her enemy phase, she got the most kills. My Lapis could have done that too, and that doesnt make her a great unit either. They both demand more resources than Kagetsu or Panette, and that is completely OK, just rank them with that in mind please (i think this video generally does a good job with that fwiw) A lot these long angry comments here and elsewhere demanding justice for their favorites in Engage can get so exhausting to read so hopefully i didnt come off here as too arrogant 😅
Hard disagree on some of these, but I was entertained 😍 also it can’t be emphasized enough how sad the Flame Lance is… Lances are supposed to have more night than Swords, but they made it worse in pretty much every way. Actually I’d argue Lances are the worst weapon type in the game out of the standard triangle, their Engaged lances aren’t that interesting either besides Dimitri’s Areadbhar
I feel like Timerra deserves a bit of credit for her personal skill, even if this isn’t an Ironman focused list. You could always slot her into a purely supportive role with staves or Corrin or something and have her stand around reducing crit
Tbh her personal skill and 1 map of ike are the only things keeping her as "high" as she is (aka above two units). I don't think the skill itself if worth a deployment slot, even if it is a top 5 personal skill, mostly because enemy phasing is a rarity in the portions of the game after her recruitment (outside of vantage/bonded shield, which don't care about low% crits)
Aw. I’m not surprised Timerra got such a low rank. I gave her Emblem Hector first chance I got, and she cleaned HOUSE. So I think she’s awesome. But I know I’m in the minority 😅
![Lp. Точка Невозврата #4 ПЕРВЫЙ КОНТАКТ [???] • Майнкрафт](/img/n.gif)
Etie S tier cuz she was good on my playthrough where i gave her every stat booster get owned loberal
Tbh I do agree Etie benefit the most from stat boosters in terms of value. It’s just other unit are already so good they become insane with it.
Taking her through the entire game, my Etie was great. EXCEPT that she finally got over 10 base defence in chapter 21. So she was quite literally made of paper all the way through. Which was a CHORE.
If you really want Etie to shine, get her out of Archer and into Thief asap.
It's very low investment and it practically causes her value to skyrocket. Thief gives her some much needed Speed and Dex growth while not hampering her Strength, lets her keep the Covert bonuses from being in cover and gives her access to Daggers, which are low Weight (good for her bad Build stat) and are very easy to forge, while giving her 1-2 range, instead of locking her to 2 with Bows. Thief also has the added bonus of not requiring a Master Seal, just hit level 10 (easy enough to do if you're feeding her flier kills and letting her do chip damage) and rank up a few Bond levels with Leif.
Depending on how you play, she benefits very highly from the Edelgard bracelet, access to Failnaught for sniping Fliers (which also gets bonus damage from being a Covert unit) and Areadbhar pairs really well with her high Strength. She also gets access to Fallen Star and Shield Gambit (though the latter is RNG dependent) to avoid enemy attacks on Enemy Phase, making it much safer for her and she can deal a ton of damage with Houses Unite. If you don't use DLC, Sigurd for Canter is very good for Etie, as well as Corrin for on demand Fog or the Lyn ring (but Lyn is HIGHLY contested, there are other units that benefit from it far more). You might even consider giving her the Celica Meal inherit, since it synergizes with her personal skill and will completely refill her Engage meter (though you really need Seadall/Byleth to make full use out of this strat, other stat inherits are probably better for her).
Definitely look into giving her a Speed inherit later on though, as while she won't get doubled too frequently, she also struggles to meet thresholds in the late game, especially against speedsters like Swordmasters and Griffin Knights.
But yeah, if you want a Thief unit that won't fall off in terms of damage, Thief Etie is the way to go. She's much more reliable offensively than Yunaka (trading crits for raw damage), dodge tanks better than Zelkov (because she'll rarely have total avoid, meaning enemies on Maddening will still attack her).
She's good without stat boosters. I play no stat boosters/dlc/well and she is usually one of my best units. Really high strength plus easily fixable speed is great.
Bunet is top tier when looking at it upside down, all is great in the world
He has a horse, two weapons, and a tier all to himself. Sounds like Seth to me.
@@DaniDoyle hes good in the kitchen meals at least xDDDDD
Funny thing about swordmaster is that Griffin knight is basically just swordmaster, except you can pick their weapon type, it gets staffs, and it flies.
They have nearly the same class growths and class stats.
thats so funny
@@DaniDoyle I went back and checked and it’s even worse for swordmaster than I thought, because Griffin knight has 1 more strength, 2 more magic, 1 more dex, 6 more res, and 1 more luck, and swordmaster only has 1 more build for all that.
Like yeah idk how much 1 point stat differences matter, but griffin is just blatantly better.
Ok but have you considered swordmaster has funnier animations
@@DaniDoyle yeah I guess I forgot about the 🤡 stat.
Celine is honestly one of my favorite units to use purely because of her niche of being a Mystical Unit that can use Forgable Swords (aka literally just Marth/Sigurd exclusive funnies)
being a filthy dlc user i love slapping soren on her, squeezing every last drop of hitrate and skill that i can, and going for bolting crits/ignis/maybe-both??? it aint super reliable but it's close enough lmao
In my current playthrough, I'm using her long term because big dress is funny. She has worse stats across the board than pandreo but i benched him because shes funnier. 😂
@@DaniDoyle 👍👍👍👍👍
@@DaniDoylespeedtaker + levin sword + sigurd = pwnage incarnate
@@DaniDoyle In my current run, I gave her some Build with Leif and Speedtaker, she can reliably double slower enemies with Bolg and has 4 possible Ignis procs when using the Engage attack.
She's no mage carry, but she's probably the best Leif carrier in the game.That is, as long as a Sword unit doesn't force her to use Master Lance with Adaptable.
Definitely feels as though she's falling off as the game progresses though, she's already Second Sealed back to lvl1 Vidamme but other units who haven't been Second Sealed are overtaking her.
I want to replay Engage. I'm cured from the 2023 engage burnout after 12 runs XD
What's interesting about Engage's tier list is that the top 11 units are basically always the same. The order they are in might vary but it's pretty much always the same people.
But the lower tiers vary a ton.
Screaming crying throwing up at Boucheron's placement.
My son, do not listen to the reasonable masses, you are S tier in my heart.
The Sheart? Shart... Teehee........
(i hope you use boucheron tho, I'm happy for you, hes funny)
@DaniDoyle I think he is very funny. However, I do have a conspiracy theory that his and Etie's growths were accidentally switched during development. Like what is the axe fighter doing with all that dex and speed growth, and what is that archer doing with all that strength growth.
Boucheron dex more like Boucheron SEX
@@DaniDoyle SO TRUE BESTIE SO TRUE
Good list but you clearly haven't considered Rosado is my husband and therefore my favoritism will make him the best unit
Very glad you mentioned Martial Master Alear. She uses Lucina really well, and I also think she’s a pretty solid staffer due to having convoy access.
If for some reason you aren’t using Hortensia/Jean, there are worse healers to choose from…
Nice profile pic.
@@EnigmaticMrL Nice profile pic.
Wait you didn’t make Lapis a wyvern and gave her every stat booster, special engraved weapon and the pack ring? What are you saying I’m biased? No I’m dedicated.
Sniper Citrinne IS a meme imo. She gets doubled by everything WITH Lyn bond 9 AND Speed +3 because the radiant bow is INSANELY heavy. She's just essentially an Astra storm button that can only do good job at one rounding armor knights, which most other mages can do. Citrinne IS good, but I think she'd be better off on B really.
She has significant speed issues, late game she can’t even double armors in Sage (idk about Mage Knight, don’t remember lol). But her build is bad so it really holds her back. Something she can do at that point is switch to Bow Knight or Sniper since her magic gains from Sage/MageKnight are really high, letting her hit benchmarks for one rounding armors and fliers.
Doubling any enemies that aren’t armors is definitely not the job of Sniptrinne, she’s pretty much a dedicated flier killer. Which is fine with me because enemy fliers in this game are extremely good and annoying
You have a tier for solid short term and Yunaka isn’t there hanging out at the bottom? I don’t think she’s a particularly excellent unit long term absent favoritism but like a cheap forge on her iron dagger and she’ll be doing what you need to do until she can’t and by the system you put in your tiering she is undeniably solid short term.
etie got speed blessed in my first run so she is objectively the best unit in the game, and actually the entire series, leaving seth, sigurd, and the likes in the dust
zoomin!
speed blessed in your 1st run where growths are fixed? 😂
I wholeheartedly agree with Bunet getting a tier to himself. The one time I really tried to make him work, he got a ton of exp and investment just to barely work as a filler unit. And by being a greedy investment glutton, he made everyone competing for those resources bad too. I didn't just get a bad unit for my trouble, I got like 3 or 4 bad units. I hate him so much.
so what i'm hearing from this tier list is that Seadall is a service top and Pandreo is vers?
I'm surprised that Anna scored so low. While she needs some favoritism early on in order to get some early levels and change into a tier 2 class, but once she's changed into a reasonable class I found that she scaled incredibly well and did not need any other resources in order to become extremely powerful. So in terms of investment I found her to require less than most others, and yet she out-performs most other units thanks to her high speed and magic.
Actually she's super easy to level up with Micaiah. There isn't much investment to get her going tbh. She's basically Pandreo that gives you money.
My silly alpaca boy better be S tier or I will never emotionally recover.
started using him as a 'eh gotta field someone' unit only to have him turn out to be a portable delete button love that alpaca boy
Not me spending 2 hours watching a video about ranking characters knowing full well that I'm just gonna do the same thing indo every time and hyper invest into the cute girls regardless of how good or bad they are.
Kagestu fans: impossibly long wall of text with extensive math calculations and stratagems.
Lapis fans: cute girl.
thinking more about yunaka its like:
just forge a steel dagger its literally the only dagger that exists and even if you drop yunaka you can just. give it to zelkov or merrin or anyone you make a wolf knight
Most of not all of the growths and bases you mentioned uses unit+class growth and bases instead of just unit growth and bases, which might change some units in the tier list
I would like to give my two cents for celine > clanne ; getting swords in her base class lets her grab a levin sword from a forge and have basically no contest on it, and it does pretty awesome damage to the early enemies.
Problem is that it weighs Celine down by 7 until she raises bld and she’s still only doing comparable damage to a unit like Citrine. Who is also slow, but has higher magic.
@samkeiser9776 yeah, I don't think she should change tiers, I just think she's marginally better than clanne lol. Splitting hairs :P
@@samkeiser9776early game if you pair her with Sigurd it doesn’t weigh her down as much, and you can use the levin sword for head long rush, and with the mystic boost it does crazy damage.
I swear, Jade is the most overlooked character in this game, as people generally almost instantly throw her away without having a single look at her and this pains me alot.
I have used her, shes just not well suited for what engage wants units to do, but everyone is salvageable in this game
Good timing, I've already watched most in your tier list playlist and wanted more.
Anna has alternate reasons to put the effort into buiding, in that she can produce a lot of money if you put the extra effort into making her a strong unit, and she can technically be in sage or high priest before chapter 11 if you power level her with miciah. At that point her magic growth is like 80% and will be one of your top units. Yes it is a lot of extra work to get her there, other units can do what she does for far less effort...but those units aren't funneling you cash at the same time. So it just matters if you care about needing the extra cash, which is pretty tight on maddening.
@@Jake-cm9jj you dont even really need mechia to power level her either 10 kills where she finishes off the foe gets her to promote level amd you can meet that pretty easy with vander while hes still around then you can use mechia and celica to get her into almost every promoted job with no dlc and with tiki you can get her into high preist
I don't get Timerra slander. She's trash in her join map, but after you promote her she has virtually the same offensive stats as merrin minus build and the best defensive stats out of anyone with that kind of speed.
Merrin has an equal personal defense to timerra, and +3 strength/ +2 magic, and that's without requiring a master seal .
@DaniDoyle Timerra's defense is 18 to merrin's 12. Picket's base defense is 10, the highest for any basic class outside of armors is only 6. Kagetsu has a higher personal defense, but he still has less than timerra on anything you actually want to run him on. And without a second seal, that strength lead isn't real, so I don't see how you can dock timerra on the master seal.
As a Citrinne enjoyer, I approve of her high placing, really interesting idea to just make her a radiant bow user too. That said, bit sad Anna so low since I gave her a radiant bow as well and she absolutely one-shots everything.
I wanted to check because I was curious, and a lvl 1 Citrinne Sniper vs lvl 1 Anna Sniper (so both internal lvl 9), Anna has lower Mag and Luck to start, but by the nature of Anna's base growths vs Citrinne's, Anna kinda just becomes better in every stat by midgame (except Mag again, but only down by like 2 or 1 point mostly). That mostly just means I value Anna quite highly just as the Citrinne in this tier list would be put.
One of my favorite things each playthrough now is you can turn any high personal speed unit (especially Lapis and Fogado) into monsters late-game with the class swap to Martial Master with Lunar Brace (inherited or Eirika-equipped) and Flashing Fists/speed stacking.
Lunar brace alone with quad-hitting wipes most everything out even if they did 0x4 normally, and they have the A staves and chi guard. It’s such a nice salvage for no-damage units to become delete buttons with utility.
Very good tier list, well explained and well thought out, LTCers are in shambles. Just have a few things I wanna contribute to the discussion cause engage is a fun game to talk about.
Morbius makes a pretty decent radiant bow sniper just like Citrinne. He's actually better than her in every stat by a pretty huge margin except for magic by only 1 or 2 points, which is arguably the only stat that really matters in this comparison. But still another thing that Morbius can do with little investment. (This is assuming that you're both comparing them at internal level 31, and that you reclassed citrinne into a sniper at internal level 19 once you get the radiant bow in chapter 14)
Also the Timerra copium train is real and I'm on it. Timerra really wants a lance that doesn't weigh her down, and unfortunately her starting inventory does not help with that, but if you give her a steel lance with a Sigurd engraving she starts performing way better due to its low weight. Also if you promote her after her joining chapter she has 20 spd and if you give her a bond ring or a meal or spd+2 she can actually double a majority of the enemies on chapter 14, and can even avoid being doubled and TANK (very valuable trust me) those fucker wolf knights. Though now looking at her damage on this chapter even with a steel lance + 3 with Sigurd engraving she can't even one round those goober lance fighters, god fucking damn it. BUT STILL she performs pretty decently with what I think is not too much investment, and with the Sigurd ring momentum can help her reach damage thresholds a bit more consistently, and the extra build helps her not get weighed down as much by her lances. Still D tier probably but in my soul I think she's better than Rosado.
Also also the GOAT Vander in my opinion is better than Louis when comparing them both short term. Louis is probably better long term but there's a fun wrath vantage build vander can do with his personal + Alear support + leif back up bonus. But basically early game Louis is doing a constant balancing act of not wanting his def to be too high because then the enemies will just ignore him, and if you give him the Sigurd ring his def will definitely be too high and thus make him useless on the enemy phase. His res and spd is also terrible which means he will be perfectly one rounded by every mage in the early chapters, and even though they're not super common it definitely makes Louis less flexible when it comes to tanking. The living legend Vander on the other hand has good mixed bulk, great movement and amazing HP, and with the Sigurd ring he doesn't need to worry about being ignored by enemies whilst making the already easy early game even easier with his increased mobility, def and atk. People might say its a waste having Sigurd on Vander cause you want the increased SP gain on other units your training, but like do you really want to be training any of the early game units? Most of them are scrubs and will be benched for Ivy and Godgetsu, so I would argue that the easiest strategy for the early game is to not even bother training units like Alfred or Etie and just opt to use the best unit at the time like Vander.
on my first run on engage i got alfred raised to level 10 and his speed was 7, I will never touch that character again
LMAO Alfred moment
fell xenolouge is something I want to replay through less than lyn normal mode fe7.
I played this game a year ago and honestly I'm glad my feelings mellowed out over time because the game has it's charms. It's by no means a bad game, it's just so much felt so shoehorned into the final third of the game.
I do think you underrated Veyle here, without DLC she has an extremely easy path to being a super solid mage for the rest of the game. She has SP for speed+3 and speedtaker (and 500 SP from spd+5) and Sigurd gives her everything she wants from there, Canter, bld that's effectively speed so she doesn't get slowed down by Bolganone, a bit more hit rate and bulk and it's Sigurd lmao. Reclass to mage knight of course, Second Seals aren't a big deal at this point of the game, and you've got a super hard hitting fast mage
Something that does suck is that she gets oneshot by wyrms even with a tonic because her base HP is so bad, a sacred robe (probably the one from Eirika's paralogue if you bother getting it) does fix this. Also other units could want Sigurd, maybe Celica or even the Lilina S ring would work fine though I never tried
I agree with the tier list for the most part, but I think Boucheron and Rosado should swap and Jade should be demoted.
It feels really weird to say someone's actively worse than Bunet, but Jade is essentially a Bunet who wants an early Master Seal which is awful. Her payoff is slightly higher than Bunet since she can inherit pre 11 skills and her proficiency is better, but the fact she needs an early Master Seal to become Bunet solidifies her as the worst Engage unit imo.
I like boucheron, but there’s No getting around the fact that he’s legitimately terrible. He has a comparable strength growth as an axe fighter to mage clanne and pegasus Chloé, he has no magic growth at all, his other growths are not noteworthy among early game units.
And it’s not like his early contributions make up for that, he’s like the one early game unit with basically no niche at all.
Framme and Jean are Qi adepts.
Vander and Louis are tanky and hit hard
Etie shoots down fliers.
Celine and Clanne have magic.
Chloé is fast and flies.
And Alear and Boucheron do mediocre melee combat. But at least Alear’s personal skill is more significant than early game chain attacks. Alear has marth bond, is a decent target of investment due to being forced, And has better growths.
And Alfred at least has lances for coverage, better movement, and better growths.
Besides, Boucheron needs more than 18 levels to strength tie base Amber. His strength growth is legitimately terrible and he’s not fast enough to make up for his strength being so low.
Lindon in B? Call that a W for Windon.
I find it so funny how my Alfred was just consistently my best unit lol
I feel like Alfred is if Franz was in a game with more competition, can work out really well if fed a lot but can fall flat really quickly due to their bases
yeah I get that a lot of people’s Alfred got screwed but for some reason he’s cracked out of his mind in my file
I don't get why you're so hung up on keeping Etie a Sniper anc calling her "B-Tier". when you can Reclass her to a Warrior watch her performance skyrocket. Warrior gives her enough to Bld to carry Silver weapons, improves her Spd and doubles down on her Str. She's supposed to be a raw Atk monster, not a Crit Fisher. My Etie equipped with a Silver Bow+3 sits at 51 Atk, 26 BASE Spd and mroe Bld than she needs. She's been an ORKO monster for the vast majority of the game and I didn't even feed her any Energy Drops nor Speedwings.
She is an amazing Unit as a Warrior and your refusal to try things out only calls the validity of these "guides" of yours into question, because you're actively giving people bad advice by relegating Etie to a "B-Tier" Unit when she can easily reach "S-Tier" with the proper setup, which you refuse to test.
Sorry, but that's a thumbs down from me for spreading misinformation
For Etie to have 26 spd and 51+ atk she would need to be around internal level 40 to reach those stats, and generally you won’t get to level 40 till the very last map. So when comparing these stats to end game enemies they’re actually not that great. With 26 spd she cannot double anything except armours, and even if you give her Lyn to boost her spd she actually cannot do enough damage to one round any enemy except for fliers. If you got these stats earlier than level 40 then you probably got a very stat blessed Etie, or funnelled an absurd amount of experience into her to get her to level 40. On average Etie cannot one round most enemies throughout the game due to her low spd, and saying she’s good if she has the Lyn ring is not a great argument because everyone is good with the Lyn ring.
It's a copy pasta
@@DaniDoyle well don’t I feel silly 🤠
PRIESTESS
Enemies refusing to attack a unit they have 0 hit on helps make solo runs even more optimal than they already are, since them ignoring you doesn't matter then. I recall the alear solo run exploiting perfect avoid to trivialize maps.
Oh baybee 2 hour video lets goooo
Yunaka starting out with micaiah is a huge deal since the micaiah grind is locked to her for a chapter and that chapter has numerous blue tiles. Together with seeing a lot of combat due to forged daggers and her high stats she is easily getting enough sp for some nice skills before the ring loss. Haven't really played much since the well so I don't know if it changes things.
Yes my girl merrin getting her due! 2 things I would like to mention for her is that Kagetsu does “technically” have 2 chapters on merrin but he joins on at most the last 2 turns of ch 11 so he doesn’t really do much there, and ch 12 he’s just stuck as either a swordmaster or sword paladin (or bow knight if you wanted him to shoot down ch 13 fliers I guess” but I honestly I think merrin’s position and being a wolf knight with a silver dagger at base allows her to do more in ch 13 then Kagetsu does in ch 11 and 12 combined,
And another option for merrin’s funny magic stat is the Hurricane axe, if your going warrior then it doesn’t really mean much since you get radiant bow which does better for stuff like armors then Hurricane but it gets the job done for dealing with hell fliers. for wyvern it does set her apart from the other wyvern options since hurricane axe has even more power then radiant bow, going last with hurricane doesn’t mean much on ep, and if you have vantage or leif then you can go first with it as well on ep. So she has almost as good phy offense as Kagetsu (and the difference is rather minor in the first place) and gets Hurricane for dealing with multiple fliers on ep, or even going axe wolf for dealing with fliers via hurricane and pre late game cavs with halberd since the only swords that help her in wolf knight are forged steel blade for engage attacks and levin sword for pre late game armors, stronger engage attacks and chipping mid - late game armors vs being able to beat fliers for the rest of the game and destroying mid game cavs
With that said I really really like this list, I think I would have citrinne and Amber above Chloe, but most of my stuff is just some swapping around within tiers, great list and thanks for the upload!!
Edit another thing for the lost investment part is that if she does get once of your emblems ( one fo the lower demand damage fix ones) like Roy or erikia and a steel dagger plus 4 or 5 (pretty cheap) can keep her running for pretty much the rest of the game without much trouble, she already has gentility sp if you go Roy (one of my personal favorite options thanks to the plus mov for being a cav plus huge str and buffed defenses is just such a good time)
DLC Thoughts
Nel - keep in her base class. Best Byleth emblem wielder (veyle and alear have better things to do) and it’s not even close. A Tier.
Rafal - good tank - think Alear with less spd and more str. Uses dragon typing v well with the more endurance focused emblems. Can do funny things with Soren too due to having a crit based personal skill. B tier
Gregory - fantastic sniper for 20 range shining bow shenans given he’s got passable spd/skl in sniper and really benefits from getting a starsphere to make all his stats good with great magic. B tier but could make an argument for C
Madeline - monstrous str/def. Pitiful everything else. C tier at a stretch but like Gregory needs starsphere and a spd/skill based class to push growths to an acceptable amount for being able to hit anything ever but doesn’t get the 20 range shining bow sniper shit greggy do.
Zelestia - S tier. Absurd fucking unit. Flying tomes and swords. absurd speed, everything else is good or fine given that maddening does fixed growths.
They’re a mixed bag but on the whole good units.
been trying madeline in swordmaster and hoo boy do you gotta give her help with skill/spd but she hits like a *truck* but yeah mostly a novelty
@@neongrey333try griffin, it’s basically Swordsmaster but better in every way. Alternatively wolf knight is also better than Swordmaster is basically every meaningful way. Unless you’re considering caps IG but griffin actually does have straight up better caps than Swordmaster.
@@samkeiser9776 yeah its something i'll deffo look into next time i use her; they're all roughly equivalent statswise (especially since she's not gonna cap speed or dex) but i wanted to fool around a little with run through. ideally you of course dont want her with a sword at all but eh, i like them and it's one weird choice in a run full of them lmao
@@neongrey333 i made her a sword general once.
@@samkeiser9776 oh god im sorry
Engage is so neat to me becauze it's super linear on maddening with clearly defined goals, niches etc yet it's a lot harder to "solve" than comparable games like Sacred Stones. I mostly agree with this list but I think you're slightly underrating a couple of the C tiers, namely Celine and Lapis. It can be hard to find EXP for them early on and Lapis is in a terrible starting class, but they're both pretty self-sufficient in terms of seals (Celine wants to be in Vidame anyway and Lapis only needs a second seal to rock out in Thief where she actually does really well). They're both early game units that give you big payoffs later on for sticking with them, Celine as your Byleth bot (Sage Citrinne works for this too) and Lapis as by far the best Roy user in the cast, which is nice since he isnt a super in-demand emblem. I think people just kind of don't know what to do with Lapis because she seems to be the second-best option for a lot of the best units in the game (Chloe, Kagetsu, and Merrin) but she fills all those roles pretty effectively to be bottom of C tier imo. I'd move Celine to low B and Lapis to a tier between A and B for long-term role players, which is where I'd also stick Citrinne and Framme. Also I think Amber is not that good lol
I agree that generally Celine is super underrated, since she has a unique niche of being a mystical unit with access to the Levin sword, but I am interested in why you think Lapis is underrated because idk if I agree. How exactly is Lapis the best unit in the cast to use Roy? I cannot really think of any stand out traits that she has that is not shared or out shined by other members of the cast. Roy also disappears for about half of the game so Lapis will have to contend with other far more in-demand emblems for the mid/late game if she wants to keep up stat and SP wise. Lapis also joins with only 500SP so to be able to get canto before losing Sigurd you'll need to really grind her to get 5 levels or hope you got enough SP books from the well. I could possibly argue that she should be in D tier because I see her has very underwhelming but there might be something that I'm not considering.
@@DangitronepasVI9Roy's lack of availability definitely hurts her, but she's kind of self-sufficient as that coveted dodge tank who doesn't reach zero enemy hit during the interim so enemies will still get stuck on her on maddening. In thief, all her growths other than strength are above average, and Roy suits her especially well because she has high speed, high avoid, and very high crit dodge but needs her HP and strength patched up, which is unique among the cast other than Chloe, who usually wants a higher demand emblem like Eirika.
I seem to have had better luck with her than others so YMMV, but I usually don't give her any favoritism other than one energy drop and she's basically self sufficient. I think she improves in ironman conditions because she's the go to if you lose any of Chloe, Kagetsu and Zelkov/Merrin, which incentivizes you to keep her around as a filler unit through at least Solm
While I get everything, I would like to argue that access to poison and how nutty wolf knight can get with Yunaka I feel like she should be at least to B, though if it causes her to become too dodgy then I think it is alright for C.
My framme got real good level ups and she, yunaka and chloe basically carried me until chapter 10 when we get the real good units lmao
I actually made my kagetsu a sniper. This was around when I looked online for a vague idea of who was good because like, half my team was garbage. People said "Kagetsu can be whatever you want him to be" and I needed a bow after etie, uh, failed to do anything meaningful.
Classic Etie
what about alcryst
@@everythingtube172 who?
I know in fates the change in gender is big in the way you play, even if the two are very close (basically do you care about having a good earlygame investment target or having an insane pair up bot for Corn), but it's super similar to alear in that female corn is ever so slightly better (mostly because she can be a mom to any gen 2 unit in the game
True, i often forget about the parent upside, its a good use of her "talent" considering corrin can get most classes from friendship so reclassing is fine for them
@DaniDoyle There's also the fact that of the gender locked classes in the base game, the male one is legitimately significantly better overall since lances are generally better than bows on routes where it matters and it's better at combat since it can enemy phase with renewal as opposed to relying on mini bow. I think male and female corn are super well balances
My opinions on units as I get through the video (if I have something to say):
Alear is just a solid unit all around that can fullfill any role you need them to. Also I prefer MAlear because I think he has the better EN voice performance
Really the big thing that condemns Vendor to being a short term early game unit for most people is his starting Internal Level of 15, meaning he won't be getting much XP/SP for the first 7ish maps and by the time he does everyone else has caught up, surpassed or is better at base than him. And just to put into perspective just how high his IL is, he has the the same IL as Kagetsu, Pandreo, Bunnet, Merrin, Panette, Rossado and Goldmarry
Clanne feels like he was designed to have his magic be carried by his starting class and was given a high strenght growth so he would be ready for mage knight, and a little too much, if he had something like 20-25% personal magic growth then it could've worked
Framme/arts would be so much better/more fun if Arts targeted the lower of an enemy defense/resistance
Boucheron's personal skill feels really weird, it makes him deal more damage when supported by a chain attack, problem is he's the only chain attacker for the next 7 chapters! It feels like the devs wanted him to be the chain attack guy and originally wanted to make his skill boost his CA damage, but changed it to what it is now when reclassing was introduced so it wouldn't be "restrictive" (boo hoo he wants to be in the best class in the game to use his personal skill)
Chloe is in the same situation as Radiant Dawn Jill where her stats and growths don't make her stand out too from other units in terms of combat, with the only reason why she's considered the best target is that she's a flier
If thief didn't work so weird in Engage and Yunaka could promote before level 21 (seriously why is there no Assasin promotion in this game, it fits both Yunaka and Zelkov perfectly) I could see her placing much higher, like 1 to 2 tiers higher
Timera is also probably Leif's best user since she needs his Build boost and because she's a lance she more than likely already gonna have a 2 range lance in her inventory so Leif can't fuck her over with the Master Lance
The thing that makes Panette a better late game CritVantage Warior than Amber is that her personal skill gives her 10 extra crit when she's not full HP so she's slightly more reliable than him
WHY DOES LINDON HAVE 2 MORE BASE STRENGHT THAN ROSADO?!
Lindon has a higher personal strength growth than Boucheron
Engage tier list let’s go!!!
I really appreciate that you ignore DLC in your tier lists. As someone who owns none of it, Engage unit discussion can be really annoying cause whenever people say "just early Tiki" or "Starsphere" to fix unit issues - idk what they're talking about lmao
Well, I'm right before the final map now (Hard/Classic/Random), and I inherited Starsphere on Ivy right after she joined - and now she's capped everything besides Luck, Strength, and Build.... just one example what Starsphere can do to a unit.....
The worst part about the DLC though is that you have to replay FX every time you wanna use the DLC-units (unlike CS in 3H), which can be a real hassle..... but as someone who enjoys using both Nel and the Enchanter-Class I push through nonetheless.....
Timerra was quite good in my first run.... but that was a "canon classes only, on hard" run.
I love her design in her canon class it looks so pretty
I guess being sick has given me the ability to see this super early and not go to my final class lmao
Man, I was hoping to a good tier list, but I disagreed with many with a lot
What do you disagree with?
I was hoping for a good comment but you're a coward 😔
I'm kinda surprised more people dont float the idea of Lindon as a low maintenance late game crit warrior with a pocket Radiant Bow, Warrior does a lot of heavy lifting for the strength stat and Killer Axe counts for his personal on 99% enemies for the rest of the game and high enough SP to immediately inherit Wrath. His direct to warrior stats are pretty comparable to fogado woth a tradeoff of some st and spe for some ma and dex
Fogado at a similar level in warrior, just for the sake of comparison*
Tiki Louis literally dragged me in my maddening run. She fixed his abysmal speed and res
lol the akira shoutout in the timestamps
Surprised you didn't mention Anna's passive, I've heard high praises sung of it with the limited money and grinding in Maddening.
Engage money is almost never in short supply, with massive gold dumps at multiple points in the game. The only point at which it is slightly restrictive is the early game, which cant be solved by anna because her base luck is super low (and she needs 2 seals to go into a functional class, making her actually be gold negative for quite some time)
@@DaniDoyle Fair enough! I like the extra money just to be safe. I also just got to the Timerra segment, and I’m incredibly surprised by how low she is (both her offense and defense were great for me, easily one of my best units) but i know not all playthroughs n experiences are universal and objective, lol. I’d still argue she’s still better than D tier though, feel like she’s a fair bit better than bencharon imo
“The most Armor Knight to ever have Armor Knight-ed” Barthe erasure smh
I know Covert Byleth is nice, but I also really like Veyle Byleth: I find the extra +3 Strength/Magic and +6 accuracy from Dragon more impactful than extra +2 Speed ; as you said, there are more ways to fix Speed than damage in the late game.
(As an aside, she uses the extra Magic from Byleth better than most Covert units, and also makes pretty good use of the Vajra-Mushti.)
nice tier list. i'm still gonna use Bucheron.
IT IS BOUCHING TIME!
I still find it strange that people don't mention Griffin Knight for Anna when talking about her.
Flying, 65% Mag growth and 70% Speed growth using Levin sword is fantastic! Occasional staff utility is just the cherry on top.
Yes, she needs initial investment and a bit of exp feeding to get going, but the payoff is there and she snowballs by herself once she overcomes her rough start.
I agree that she's not top tier, but putting her so low is a crime. :P
1 Second seal, 1 weapon and maybe an Inherited Skill is not too much to ask, is it?
Am I the only person who likes Bunet? My 1st playthrough was on hard mode, amd i tried using him, and he was blessed by the gods with his level ups.
In the endgame, he was 1 shotting, or 1 rounding almost everything, and took almost no damage from non magic attacks. I know i just got lucky, but it made me love him lol
You talking about thief promotions gave me an idea for their potential promoted class:
Hunter
Infantry class with A(+) bows and B(+) knives. More strength and slightly more bulk than Wolf knight (the other promotion option) but with less speed.
Skill: Finisher
Doubles crit rate against broken enemies.
Oh yeah, and the tier list is very solid. I think Fogado should be A since he’s the best Eirika user with very little investment (mounted brave bow is very nice). I’d also argue for swapping Alfred and Boucheron, but they don’t really matter.
I would argue that there is a big difference between lapis and diamont. Diamont has has more hp and def than lapis, allowing him to survive fighting more than 1 enemy at a time. Diamont also has like 4-5 more build which allows him to use heavy weapons more effectively than lapis.
Neither of these are true when they reclass (which both units desperately want to do). Their personal stats are nearly identical
@DaniDoyle I don't think that argument stands when almost every unit wants to reclass and you have better options with the limited second seals. Until they get replaced, diamont will be a lot more reliable than lapis.
@@phoenixgemini42 i don't think you use either of them without reclassing them. If youre not spending a seal on them, you're probably not fielding them
I honestly believe Seadall is the only FE unit who has a strong case for being the best unit in their respective game, availability is really the main argument against it, but as we can see from the list there aren't many other super good units that join many maps before him. In addition to everything you said, the stuff about the cast being very homogenous and interchangeable makes such a critical and unique support unit better in relation to the rest of the cast. Especially physical carries like Kagetsu/Panette are not that much better than the physical carries in A tier, in a reasonably casual run you'll barely notice the difference in many cases. I could still see the argument for the Elysian royalty above him because their contributions are super good and pretty difficult to replicate too, but he's minimum top 3 in my opinion.
Amazing tier list but celine is ur only mage in a few chapters and the best celica user until citrine joins, At least she deserves 1st in C tier or the lowest b
Clanne exists so shes not your ONLY mage, but being one of only 2 is valuable for sure... I personally just don't see it as being a huge deal since it's only for three maps, none of which are particularly hard IMO
This is a great tier list. I've been playing no paralogues efficiency for like 10 playthroughs and this is really close to my tier list.
I don't think there's an F tier and D tier is a one/two man show. Frankly, there's not much difference between units if they're not hitting dura/offense benchmarks anyway.
I think Bunet is better than some of the potential-bereft project characters because he can at least contribute some okay stats/promoted utility while you're still waiting for master seals.
Thanks for not underrating Louis and barely overrating Lapis. Those are my two hills I've survived on, repeatedly.
Instant like for the thumbnail alone
Excuse you, its actually LADY Anna 😭
As for Citrinne though, i had a BLAST giving her Hold Out, Vantage, and a super forged Thoron, and then throwing her at whatever i was scared of :3
I actually managed to get some situational filler combat out of Framme, particularly as a mage killer. This was on hard though, Maddening might be a different story, and my Framme might have just been blessed with good level ups.
I benched etie once I made clanne a bowknight. I actually did it at light speed. Also, ik my yunaka is absurd rn but I'm curious what like the normal placement is. Like, she is sitting at 18 str and 18 def/res rn lol. She face tanked tiki in her paralogue
My alear is so bad I honestly want to bench mine lol.
Why not mention clannes strength growth? Hes a bad mage but is fine as a ranged phys.
Second seals become available starting in chapter 9. This means an early reclass is not possible, meaning you would want to promote and reclass him if you were going to reclass (so he's not stuck with unpromoted growths) and thats a ton of investment to get a mediocre physical unit, especially close to some on the best physical units joining for free. Realistically, the best way for him to contribute is as an early mage, both because seals arive late and because hitting on res early is a niche.
@@DaniDoyle I suppose thats a fair point actually. I didn't realize his str growth was mediocre lol. I suppose mine has been str blessed in that case.
Me: *struggled a bit during my first playthrough*
Also Me: *used only Chloé and Mauvier from the first 3 tiers and had Boucheron and Bunet both on my team*
Ooohhhh
What class did you use for Boucheron? I'm considering Warrior (Bow focus) on him but I wanna hear some experiences.
I almost CHOKED when you called Mauvier as Morbius 🤣
So I’m doin Hard Casual and over chapter 17 or 18 and this is how I rank my current units.
1. Zelkov is my greatest tank with the axe WolfKnight class :)
2. Was shocked where you set Alcryst since he’s my 2nd best tank :0
3. Hmm yeah Ivy’s great, pretty no-brainer
4. Kagetsu is another great no-brainer
5. I would set Seadall here I think. Another awesome no-brainer
6. Amber is pretty OK; personally wanted him to be great after alcryst but perhaps I should feed him speed boosts
7. Pandreo is pretty solid, but is actually replacing Jean while I’m training/building my Jean to level 10 to get a master seal ha
8. Just like you paired Lapis and Diamant, I’d do Merrin and Diamant at the same level down here. Again, struggling to build Diamant.. :(
And then 9 to last is the remaining cast.
Surprised you didn’t mention Celine’s personal class when ranking her.
I did though? I specifically say she has both tomes and swords in her starting class. That's the only way it's meaningfully different from mage/sage.
I just relisened and i spent the entire section talking about her personal class and how it functions (and hurts her)
@@DaniDoyle Oh I should have clarified that I meant her promoted class which gets her staves and ignis. I have not used celine (got her killed sadly) but assume those things might be somewhat significant.
I literally do talk about her promoted class giving swords staffs and tomes. ignis does not impact her enough to bear mentioning though, I didnt mention Alfred or Fogado's class skills either because the video is already super long.
@@DaniDoyle I just went back to the Celine time stamp and there was no mention of her gaining staff access.
anyway finally watched the whole thing lmao and yeah deffo agree a lot comes to playstyle; i think my personal big divergence is that im just much more enthusiastic about playing for the odds on stuff like crit/luna, crit/sandstorm probability confluences, etc (mumblemumblecrit/ignismumblemumble) since once skill gets high enough 'yeah something will probably fire at least once' is good enough for me lmao
but really i cant even argue with your placements because 'will just kill the thing' _is_ absolutely better than relying on probability math to do the job for you lmao
Ok but have you considered luna gives big number which is funny??? Checkmate liberals!
@@DaniDoyle funny and math together at last
AMBER BROS!
Me dan consejos? Estoy usando varios Tier S y tengo problemass en dificutlad difícil
definitely don't understand why you wouldn't consider yunaka a solid short term filler unit right after talking about how her starting class/weapon type makes her stronger than all your other units until you start promoting them/getting prepromotes? your entire rationale for her lower placement is that she falls off but then you literally put vander and louis up there anyway lmao
i didn't watch the video but you're wrong and i'm calling nintendo on you
Dude Anna is super strong…
Not bouche strong, but i created that monster in a lab and fed him books, potions and shit. J frankenstined that man to become the Bouche God, and my regrets = 0
Etie justice! I love it ❤❤❤
My lvl 12 chloe has 9 strength and 10 magic at the moment, and i didn't invest anything in her except exp...
Believe it or not, she's actually 1 point behind her strength averages, but thats ok because shes FOUR points ahead on magic 😳
@@DaniDoyle yeah it's absolutely rediculous, feels like she's getting magic in every lvl, can't wait to promote her and start using the levin sword
I do really want a secons tier list ranking the emblems
That might come eventually but I'm not SUPER interested in ranking the emblems, as they're all pretty different and also all very strong
Funny how the "beat the game" tierlist is very similar to the "efficiency" tier list, almost like efficiency isn't the only objective method... Anyway agree with most everything just judging from the list (still have to watch) I just think (especially in text; on youtube rarely is "efficiency" the main criteria, it's mainly a forum thing) people could use more normal judgment criteria. But does end up similar regardless so.
I actually prefer efficiency tier lists since their system of evaluating units is far more defined and concrete than the “beat the game” tier lists, which metrics are far more vague and subjective. Obviously efficiency tier lists are subjective in their own way, but measuring how many turns a unit saves you verses how well a unit made the game easier for you personally, it’s clear that measuring turns is definitely a better and less subjective way to compare units. What is easier or harder is going to vary wildly depending on the player, and because of that these tier lists basically just employ efficiency type limitations such as “no grinding” or no “favouritism” so to seem more objective. But who’s to say if one strategy is easier than another. I find using micaiah to grind Anna to mk to be very easy with great returns mid to late game making the game far easier for me. But here Dani says she finds it as a hassle and difficult. One person in this comment section was talking about how they felt Lapis was underrated cause they found her high spd great for a dodge tanking build, which they felt made the game easier for them. Though another person could easily find it too difficult to stop lapis from having too much avoid that she’d be ignored by enemies.
Also taking turn count into account is important, because if we don’t then there really is no difference between a unit that kills an enemy in one turn than a unit that takes 5 turns to kill the same enemy. Who cares how many turns it took, as long as the enemy is dead then the result is the same if we disregard turn count.
The DLC characters are all kinda broken particularly because you can get them super early, (just do the xenolouge on normal.)
Zelestia is Ivy but better, except she doesn’t have staves, she has better growths in basically every way, better bases in basically everything and joins earlier potentially if you do Xenolouge early. Unlike Ivy she has absolutely no speed issues, because she has a 65% growth in her personal class and a significantly higher speed base, and Ivy’s magic growth is only 10% higher (counting class growths.)
She can easily destroy the entire game and I don’t even think she needs support if you recruit her early, she also has a really funny class skill, which makes her swords deal damage into foes’s (def+res)/2 which kinda just makes her levin swords worse, but you can do something like give her Roy and have her use the binding blade like a pseudo Levin sword. Her strength is also good for the record.
She’s actually insane.
Nel and Rafal will also be really good if you get them early, their special classes have bad stats, (20 hp 5 in everything else) but dragon stones are kinda good, and their bases are actually still competent in their base classes, so if you were to reclass them they’d get a ton more stats, Rafal, the “slow” one, has a personal speed stat of 11 at base, and 15 personal defense and 14 strength.
You can reclass them, or keep them in their personal classes to use dragon stones, particularly the ruin stone is a 1-2 range 6 mt weapon that effectively always triggers luna, it weighs 12 but both Nel and Rafal have 8 and 9 bld respectively so that’s not really much of an issue.
Gregory is just better Citrine and Madeline is just better Louise, stat wise anyway.
Madeline is the most likely to fall off because she has terrible speed and res growths, and she has unimpressive speed and res bases, her dex is also pretty bad, though idk maybe she could still be a vantage warrior, it really depends on how far a general/unit with nothing to offer but hp, str, and def can take you.
Gregory has Innate staffs, good bases, and some crazy res and magic growths, his other growths aren’t as bad as madeline’s. He’s basically (what if Citrinne had unreasonable bases and slightly more exaggerated growths. He does have 10 def personally, and crazy high res and magic, so yeah he’s definitely op.
Here are my builds for all 19 and Alear Male
Alear Divine Dragon
Bond Rings
Ryoma S + 1 Str + 2 Spd + 1 Lck Bushido
Xander S + 1 Str + 2 Def + 1 Lck Chivalry
Skills
Break Defenses
Rally Spectrum +
Stats
Hp: 68
Bld: 13
Str: 42
Mag: 25
Dex: 37
Spd: 44
Def: 35
Res: 25
Lck: 35
Wille Glanze +5
Mt 16 Hit 100 Crit 20
Wt 9 Avo 20 Ddg 20
Celine Vidame Emblem Marth
Skills
Tome Precision 5
Staff Mastery 5
Hp: 56
Bld: 11
Str: 36
Mag: 39
Dex: 27
Spd: 42
Def: 24
Res: 36
Lck: 53
Excalibur +5 Beginnings
Mt 16 Hit 100 Crit 15
Wt 9 Avo 5 Ddg 5
Ivy Lindwurm Emblem Celica
Skills
Healing Light
Staff Mastery 5
Hp: 60
Bld: 15
Str: 31
Mag: 42 (+5) 47
Dex: 23 (+10) 33
Spd: 34 (+5) 39
Def: 33
Res: 42
Lck: 17
Bolganone +5 Echoes
Mt 20 Hit 95 Crit 0
Wt 10 Avo 0 Ddg 50
Nel Fell Child
Emblem Sigurd Holy
Skills
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Genility/Bravery/Blue Skies +
Hp: 65
Bld: 13
Str: 39
Mag: 30
Dex: 32
Spd: 45
Def: 33
Res:31
Lck: 37
Représailles +5 + Holy
Mt 21 Hit 95 Crit 0
Wt 5 Avo 20 Ddg 0
Fell Ruinstone
Mt 6 Hit 80 Crit 0
Wt 12 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Fell Magicstone
Mt 6 Hit 85 Crit 0
Wt 10 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Timerra Picket
Emblem Lief
Stats from Emblem
(Hp+ 7 Bld+5 Def +3)
Skills
Heavy Attack
Dual Assist +
Hp: 63 (+7) 70
Bld: 12 (+5) 17
Str: 34
Mag: 26
Dex: 50
Spd: 41 (-4) 37
Def: 35 (+3) 38
Res: 23
Lck: 38
Venomuos +5 Genealogy
Mt 40 Hit 110 Crit 20
Wt 21 Avo 10 Ddg 0
Reason why I gave her Leif
Adaptable [Backup] Crit +10 during combat
His defense buff boosting her Sandstorm’s damage
Alfred Avenir Emblem Roy
Skills
Heavy Attack
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Hp: 71
Bld: 16
Str: 47
Mag: 19
Dex: 34
Spd: 35
Def: 39
Res: 19
Lck: 44
Brave lance+ 5 Bindings
Mt 12 Hit 85 Crit 0
Wt 22 Avo -30 Ddg 0
Alcryst Tireur d'élite Emblem Lyn
Skills
Surprise Attack
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +, Brute Force or Decisive Strike +
Hp: 68
Bld: 15
Str: 42 (+5) 47
Mag: 19
Dex: 44 (+5) 49
Spd: 40
Def: 30
Res: 17
Lck: 29
Lendabair +5 Blazing
Mt 18 Hit 130 Crit 30
Wt 9 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Fogado Cupido Emblem Eirika
Skills
Surprise Attack
Keen Insight +
Hp: 67
Bld: 16
Str: 34
Mag: 27
Dex: 33
Spd: 52
Def: 27
Res: 32
Lck: 33
Brave bow +5 sacred
Mt 9 Hit 125 Crit 20
Wt 11 Avo -20 Ddg -20
Diamont Successeur Emblem Ike
Skills
Heavy Attack
Dual Assist +
Hp: 77
Bld: 20
Str: 45
Mag: 22
Dex: 22
Spd: 38
Def: 40
Res: 19
Lck: 25
Georgios +5 Radiance
Mt 40 hit 100 Crit 10
Wt 33 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Hortensia Sleipnir Rider Emblem Micaiah
Skills
Tome Precision 5
Divine Pulse +
Hp: 47
Bld: 11
Str: 24
Mag: 39
Dex: 36
Spd: 46
Def:16
Res:54
Lck: 55
Elthunder +5 Dawn
Mt 13 Hit 85 Crit
Wt 10 Avo 40 Ddg 20
Seadal Dancer Emblem Lucina
Skills
Quality Time +
LifeSphere ++ or Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Hp: 64
Bld: 15
Str: 36
Mag: 29
Dex: 28
Spd: 45
Def: 24
Res: 26
Lck: 41
Flashing Fist art +5 Awakening
Mt: 13 Hit: 120 Crit: 0
Wt: 8 Avo: 30 Ddg 0
Veyle Fell Child Emblem Corrin
Skills
Keen Insight + or Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Tome Precision 5
Hp: 48
Bld: 11
Str: 35
Mag: 51
Dex: 36
Spd: 32
Def: 25
Res: 44
Lck: 28
Obscurité + 5 Fates
Mt 17 Hit 90 Crit 40
Wt 12 Avo 10 Ddg 30
Gregory Sage Emblem Byleth
Skills
Healing Light
Staff Mastery 5
Hp: 43
Bld: 11
Str: 24
Mag: 51
Dex: 32
Spd: 28
Def: 20
Res: 47
Lck: 32
Nova +5 Academy
Mt 10 Hit 115 Crit 20
Wt 16 Avo 10 Ddg 30
Clanne Emblem Tiki
Mage Cannoneer
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Keen Insight +
Stats from Emblem
(Hp+10 Def+4 Lck+10)
Stats from Skill
(Def/Res +5)
Basic Stats
Hp: 73 (+10) 83
Bld: 18
Str: 46
Mag: 22
Dex: 45
Spd: 25
Def: 47 (+9) 56
Res: 23 (+5) 28)
Lck: 31 (+10) 41
Combat stats
Ph Atk 51
Hit 199
Avo 70
Crit 0
Ddg 41
Holy Blast
Mt 6 Hit 70 Crit -80
Wt 15 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Corrupted
Tornado Blast
Mt 6 Hit 70 Crit -80
Wt 15 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Fliers
Wyrm Blast
Mt 6 Hit 70 Crit -80
Wt 15 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Dragon
Rider Blast
Mt 6 Hit 70 Crit -80
Wt 15 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Cavalry
Armor Blast
Mt 6 Hit 70 Crit -80
Wt 15 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Armored
Why I gave him Tiki
Stat boosts
Geosphere + At start of player phase, if there are allies adjacent to unit, grants Def/Res+5 to unit and those allies for 1 turn.
Lifesphere ++ If unit uses Wait without attacking or using items, restores 40 HP and heals status effects.
Lightsphere If unit initiates combat, halves chance of receiving critical hit from foe.
Draconic Form Unit transforms into and fights as a dragon while engaged. Grants +10 to max HP and +5 to Bld and all basic stats.
[Armored] Negates terrain damage.
Madeline Emblem Hector
General
Vantage ++
Resolve +
Hp: 86
Bld: 25
Str: 50
Mag: 16
Dex: 37
Spd: 15
Def: 58
Res: 15
Lck: 25
Ukonvasura +5 Strength
Mt: 46 Hit: 80 Crit: 10
Wt: 27 Avo: -30 Ddg: -30
Framme Emblem Soren
Enchanter
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Divine Pulse +
Stats from Emblem
( Mag +4 Dex +3 Res +5)
Hp:53
Bld: 11
Str: 25
Mag: 26 (+4) 30
Dex 42 (+3) 45
Spd: 41
Def: 19
Res: 21 (+5) 26
Lck: 43
Either
Flashing fist art +5 Acumen
Mt: 16 Hit: 90 Crit: 0
Wt: 9 Avo: -10 Ddg: -20
Reason why I gave her Soren
Flare When attacking with tomes, inflicts Res-20% on foe, and unit recovers 50% of damage dealt.
[Qi Adept] Unit recovers 100% of damage dealt instead.
Cataclysm Use to attack foes in an area with fire, thunder and wind magic at 40% damage. Wind is effective: Flying.
[Qi Adept] 20% chance of breaking target
Plus a synergy with Diamant (Ike)
Zelestia Emblem Chrom/Robin
Melusine
Friendly Boost
Soulblade
Skills
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Tome Precision 5
Stats from Emblem
(+3 Str + 5 Dex and + 4 Spd)
Hp: 75
Bld: 12
Str: 40 (+3) 43
Mag: 40
Dex: 33 (+5) 28
Spd: 37(+4) 41
Def: 34
Res: 37
Lck: 24
Brave Sword + 5 Bonds
Mt: 10 Hit: 90 Crit: 0
Wt: 12 Avo: 20 Ddg: 20
Reasons why I gave her Chrom/Robin
Brute Force
[Flying] Giga Levin Sword
Vander Camilla
Paladin
Skills
Alabaster Duty
Pivot
Heavy Attack
Quick Riposte +
Stats from Emblem
(+7 to Hp +5 to Spd and + 4 to Res)
Hp: 77 (+7) 84
Bld: 16
Str: 46
Mag: 20
Dex: 46
Spd: 35 (+5) 40 (-1) 39
Def: 38
Res: 27 (+4) 31
Lck: 30
Fragarach +5 Revelations
Mt: 25 Hit: 90 Crit: 40
Wt: 17 Avo: -20 Ddg: -20
Reasons why I gave him Camilla
Soar Move +4
Dragon Vein of Water
Creates water that decreases Avo
Think a Killing Field mixed with a Pitfall Trap
Her Decisive Strike +
Rafal Fell Child Emblem Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude
Skills
Keen Insight +
Quick Riposte +
Stats from Emblem
( +5 to Str +4 to Dex and +3 to Def)
Hp: 76
Bld: 13
Str: 46 (+5) 51
Mag: 13
Dex: 30 (+4) 34
Spd: 33
Def: 42 (+3) 45
Res: 20
Lck: 19
Revanche +5 + Rivals
Mt 25 Hit 80 Crit 45
Wt 11 Avo 20 Ddg 20
Fell Ruinstone
Mt 6 Hit 80 Crit 0
Wt 12 Avo 0 Ddg 0
Fell Slaystone
Mt: 6 Hit: 90 Crit: 0
Wt: 10 Avo: 0 Ddg 0
Effective vs Calvary
Reason why I gave him Rivals and Keen Insight +
Rivalry and Friendly Rivalry hehe
Combat Arts Enables use of Edelgard, Dimitri, or Claude’s Combat Art. Spends some remaining engage turns.
[Dragon] +10% damage.
Houses Unite Use to attack with Aymr, Areadbhar, and Failnaught at 50% damage.
[Dragon] +10% damage.
Why Keen Insight +
Fell Slaystone Effective vs Cavalry
Aymr Axe of Emblem Edelgard. Smashes foes. Cannot follow up, or strike first if initiating combat. Eff: Dragon.
Areadbhar Lance wielded by Emblem Dimitri. If user initiates combat, grants Mt+50%. (Can get a Bane for any other type. So Corrupted or Armor)
Failnaught Bow wielded by Emblem Claude. If user initiates combat, grants Avo+20. Effective: Dragon, Flying.
So think Cavalry, Dragon, and Flying but could be four
Mauvier Emblem Veronica
Royal Knight
Lunar/Solar/Eclipse Brace +
Staff Mastery 5
Stats from Emblem
(+5 to Mag +4 to Res and +6 to Lck)
Stat from Skill
Def +2
Hp: 69
Bld: 12
Str: 44
Mag: 41 (+5) 46
Dex: 48
Spd: 38
Def: 29 (+2) 31
Res: 37 (+4) 41
Lck: 30 (+6) 36
Brave Lance + 5 Heros
Mt: 11 Hit: 65 Crit: -20
Wt: 12 Avo: 20 Ddg: 20
Veronica for both of his skills his personal and class skills
Contemplative synergies with Book of Worlds
Contemplative
If unit uses Wait without attacking or using items grants Def +2 for one turn
Book of Worlds advances 1 stage (to max 5) for each consecutive round that unit uses Wait. Reverts to base stage if unit triggers the effect.
[Book I: Seal] If unit initiates combat, freezes foe after combat.
[Book II: Flame] If unit initiates combat, freezes foe and sets foe’s space on fire after combat.
[Book III: Death] If unit initiates combat, deals 10 damage, freezes foe, and sets foe’s space on fire after combat.
[Book IV: Dream] If unit initiates combat, restores HP equal to damage dealt during combat, then deals 10 damage, freezes foe, and sets foe’s space on fire after combat.
[Book V: Science] If unit initiates combat, restores HP to self and adjacent allies equal to damage dealt during combat, then deals 10 damage, freezes foe, and sets foe’s space on fire after combat.
Reforge and Reprisal +
Reforge
If units Hp is 11 or more and an adjacent ally is broken after combat sacrifices 10 Hp and removes the break status from ally
Reprisal +
If unit’s HP is not full, adds 50% of lost HP to Atk.
Still working one the others and Bond rings too
How have you made your Alfreds scale? I found every single time I try to invest in him, he falls off hard because he has issues hitting doubling thresholds and fails to do more than 30% on most enemies after chapter 15.
Good tierlist but Boucheron and Yunaka should switch place imo, I find Yunaka really useless while Boucheron is the only support class you have early game, really carrying those early Maddening maps where you struggle to deal damages.
Also I don't think Framme is only an early game unit, she is one of if not THE best Lucina user with her good supports and passive giving her a shit ton of avo.
(I know it's a 7 months old video but I felt like commenting anyway lol)
I love ALL Dani Doyle videos!!!! ❤
My mans out Anna in d tier, and Chloe in the same tier as citrine😭. This was made a while ago though so hopefully his opinion has changed.
I am a woman, and no, I do not think the Anna cope is real. She's fun though! I use her most playthroughs!
I really like engage. Most of all, it proved to me that intelligent systems is all good on HD development, which was in question after three houses ugly ass lmfao
You call 6 more hp, 2 more strength, 1 less speed but 4 more build, and 3 more defense the same unit?
I believe you are talking about Diamant vs Lapis, in which case you have the numbers wrong. Assuming the same class, Lapis has -3 hp, +1 str, -1 dex, +1 speed, -2 build (so -1 AS in most cases), -2 luck, -1 defense, +1 res. These numbers are not that big a deal outside of LTC specifically where the +1 strength allows lapis to hit several important benchmarks (and my list doesn't account for LTC). -3 HP/-1 Defense arguably could matter but its still not a huge bulk difference. I think for all intents and purposes, they are the same unit.
@DaniDoyle except they're not in the same class and those massive difference in stats are the reality outside of the vacuum of personal bases. You can't look at them on their own, especially when diamant's class is unique and the main use case people advocate for him involves said personal class.
Both of these units want to second seal out of their bad starting classes and into Wyvern something like or Great Knight.If you're not reclassing them, they are not worth using, as swordmaster is the worst class in the game, and successor/hero are nearly as bad. anything Lapis can do with a reclass Diamant can. In a game qhere reclassing is practically free and most units want a reclass, personal stats matter.
Great list! I'm kinda sad you don't see how good Timerra can be with minimal investment but all the same I enjoyed watching.
Timerra gives people a terrible first impression because her build and starting equipment don't let her strengths show. All it takes is speed +3, a master seal to get into Picket and a decent lance engrave to make her a stable, reliable bruiser. I know I just stated like 3 things but every unit in this game is like that. And her emblem flexibility is massive. Byleth, Roy, Sigurd, Eirika, and Ike all give her multiple different build options. She doesn't have to rely on Sandstorms the same way Alcryst does with Luna. Check out Iced Coffee gaming for late game demonstrations if you need proof. 😅
Finally, fuck Bunet. All my homies hate Bunet.
Iced Coffee Gaming is a misogynist who has personally harassed me, but more to the point he's also just wrong about timerra. Investment makes her usable, as is the case for every unit, but it doesn't make her anything special. Even with investment her combat will be disappointing. Give Bunet a reclass, a forge, and a +3 speed and he'll be usable too (probably perform better than timera would)
Lapis is S tier as long as youre playing fe 6.
THIS IS NOT TRUE ACTUALLY SHES A SETH ARCHETYPE AKA OVERRATED
Engage is both my most played, and probably my favorite FE, and im really glad you mentioned that both everyone requires investment, and that playstyle greatly affects rankings.
I absolutely adore Lapis as both a character and as a unit, and i have used her in every single playthrough of Engage. She always has an early Emblem, gets a forged and engraved weapon, and gets unrestricted access to the first energy drop or two. This makes her frequently the best unit in my army for the early and midgame, and depending on my build for her, she can continue to contribute into the lategame. That being said i think i would only put her slightly higher within C tier. While everybody needs investment, its undeniable that amber can do most of the combat lapis could do, but with less of those early resources, especially the strength drops.
Vantage killing and dodge tanking are two sides of the same coin, a strong physical enemy phaser. Even though in my example, Amber cannot dodge tank like Lapis can, they both end up sitting on a fort and enemy phasing enemies on chapter 9, so even with different means of achieving this, Amber uses less resources to succeed in this role.
It feels like the average Engage unit discourser does exactly what i explained that i do with Lapis, but then argues that the payoff of becoming the strongest unit in the army after that investment warrants that they are an A or S tier character. Yes, Pandreo still wants skills and emblems too, but he wants LESS than say Celine, and thats part of what makes him better. How good an Engage unit is is more about how many resources it costs to make them a killing machine, rather than IF its possible.
This way that Engage allows for, and in some ways almost encourages, favoritism with its massive pool of various limited rescources, seems to make the game have a very toxic unit discussion which i find odd. A game where your favorites can carry in a variety of roles on the highest difficulty is part of what i love about this game.
ANY unit can become the strongest team member and thats fun. Timerra is not A tier because when you gave her half of all your rescources and held back your army to let her enemy phase, she got the most kills. My Lapis could have done that too, and that doesnt make her a great unit either. They both demand more resources than Kagetsu or Panette, and that is completely OK, just rank them with that in mind please (i think this video generally does a good job with that fwiw)
A lot these long angry comments here and elsewhere demanding justice for their favorites in Engage can get so exhausting to read so hopefully i didnt come off here as too arrogant 😅
Hard disagree on some of these, but I was entertained 😍 also it can’t be emphasized enough how sad the Flame Lance is… Lances are supposed to have more night than Swords, but they made it worse in pretty much every way. Actually I’d argue Lances are the worst weapon type in the game out of the standard triangle, their Engaged lances aren’t that interesting either besides Dimitri’s Areadbhar
What does the Dimitri lance do again? I can't remember
@@DaniDoyle it’s just really strong lol, it adds like 50% might or something so it’s nice when you don’t wanna use Amyr or Failnaught
I feel like Timerra deserves a bit of credit for her personal skill, even if this isn’t an Ironman focused list. You could always slot her into a purely supportive role with staves or Corrin or something and have her stand around reducing crit
Tbh her personal skill and 1 map of ike are the only things keeping her as "high" as she is (aka above two units). I don't think the skill itself if worth a deployment slot, even if it is a top 5 personal skill, mostly because enemy phasing is a rarity in the portions of the game after her recruitment (outside of vantage/bonded shield, which don't care about low% crits)
@@DaniDoyle I’d personally deploy her over lapis but fair enough
Aw. I’m not surprised Timerra got such a low rank. I gave her Emblem Hector first chance I got, and she cleaned HOUSE. So I think she’s awesome. But I know I’m in the minority 😅
Dani... please...
The war 😞
The only thing I will not stand for is the Chloe slander putting her in A 😵… best girl is S tier okay
I like Boucheron, but his Def and Str growth are abysmal. Kagetsu has no business having better Def than he does.