Why Fly Thai?

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 24 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 170

  • @johncurtain2516
    @johncurtain2516 Рік тому +5

    Underrated airline .I travelled with Thai to Europe in 2018 and their' economy is one of the best !

  • @veselinbigovic757
    @veselinbigovic757 Рік тому +37

    The best days are when Dennis Paul and jeb post a video 😊

  • @hobbs448
    @hobbs448 Рік тому +21

    Thai are my favourite carrier. Yes they may not be the most polished crew like SQ or most spectacular hard product but their service comes from the heart or Jai Dee as what us Thais say. Cheers Dennis for the review, always puts a smile on my face when I see your videos pop up

    • @MaxhAllenh
      @MaxhAllenh Рік тому +1

      SQ are only good because of how good Thai used to be. The soft product used to be one of the best in the world, the envy in Asia, and SQ knew this and had to up their game

  • @raydempsey6144
    @raydempsey6144 Рік тому +4

    Got back from Thailand few weeks ago and I’ve been on Thai airlines, b777-300ER to London Heathrow, the staff were excellent and as I’m profoundly deaf and it’s was challenging to communicate with them with the mask on. They did make my life lot easier when they write on paper what food I need and drinks or giving me a thumbs up if I’m okay though 12hr flight! I would go on Thai airlines again fantastic experience and excellent food on economy seat! But I did wish sit on first class like you sitting there!

  • @PaulStewartAviation
    @PaulStewartAviation Рік тому +17

    Yes it was sad to see Thai drop the 747 flying into Sydney, but I guess that's progress.. Great video Dennis. It's a really good product and currently offering decent prices between Australia and Europe

    • @TheSumo1955
      @TheSumo1955 Рік тому +2

      heh Paul, where do you go to get the best deals to Europe

  • @lisasutherland-fraser4479
    @lisasutherland-fraser4479 Рік тому +2

    Last time I flew was also in the QOTS from HKT-BKK years ago. Only wish we could go back in time. Love your look of absolute bliss when you use the hand towel knowing you have a fabulous flight ahead of you! 🎉❤

  • @clairedobson2240
    @clairedobson2240 Рік тому +1

    Flew Thai recently & they were excellent. Crew were outstanding. Great video Dennis

  • @user-rg6wi4wq4d
    @user-rg6wi4wq4d Рік тому +2

    Last June flew to London via Bangkok with Thai Airlines and had a great trip with excellent hospitality. Returned with Thai in September and holidayed in Bangkok for 10 days. At that stage Thailand was opening up fully and it was great to see Thai Airlines operational. Flew economy. Flying very soon with Smile, a Thai Airlines off shoot soon from Cambodia back to Bangkok, counting down my days. Thank you for your report.

  • @carolinelane9599
    @carolinelane9599 Рік тому +2

    Another great review Dennis as always. We are looking to go to Bangkok in August from Peoples Republic of WA. Thai advises they are flying out of Perth but everyday their site says nothing available. Weird.
    Been to Oman on a cruise ship. What a great place. But I will always remember it as the place, watching my hubby who use to be a nurse, doing CPR on a fellow passenger. Gentleman lived and for years we got a Christmas card from him and his wife. They would have well and truly passed but they were so adorable.

    • @DennisBunnikTravels
      @DennisBunnikTravels  Рік тому +2

      Wow, that's an amazing story - thank god your husband was there. Not sure about the Perth flights but I know many airlines are increasing their flights this year.

    • @carolinelane9599
      @carolinelane9599 Рік тому +1

      @@DennisBunnikTravels Was pretty lucky that he was in the right place at the right time. Me, I'm no good to anyone in a crisis lol
      See where we end up this year. Few options we are looking at. Don't book something soon we won't be going anywhere lol BC prices are going through the roof, and folding up my 6'7 hubby in economy doesn't work lol Have a good one Dennis.

    • @kittichaikuearod5860
      @kittichaikuearod5860 4 місяці тому

      😊​@@DennisBunnikTravels

  • @jonhobson3592
    @jonhobson3592 Рік тому +1

    Next week I fly Thai business from London 😊

  • @tobiasOB89
    @tobiasOB89 Рік тому +4

    Flew CPH-BKK in Royal Silk with them in January and I was pleasently surprised with everything :-) I was a bit nervous due to various reviews, but I did not experience said issues.. Albeit the seat was visbily worn, and the screen old. However all worked fine :-)
    So I am glad you also seemed to have a good experience!

  • @Calebs_Aviation
    @Calebs_Aviation Рік тому +4

    Great video Dennis! Love seeing a Thai Airways review finally the A350!! Love seeing their brilliant looking menu and Business Class, Also those 747-400s just sitting on the tarmac at Bangkok Airport(BKK) is so sad! I can’t wait to see them fly again soon!! 😊

  • @olivierfernandez9043
    @olivierfernandez9043 Рік тому +4

    Like you Dennis I am missing the B747 on Thai Airways as well as the A380 on Thai Airways. The food in Royal Silk Class or Royal First Class is usually very tasty and Thai selection are the best indeed. The Service is genuine and done with a touch. I am glad that you have enjoyed your experience on board TG 466.

  • @dpromny
    @dpromny 10 місяців тому

    Did SYD-BKK this year. Really liked it, cabin is a little tired but the service is impeccable. Booked again for next year.

  • @spooner0007
    @spooner0007 Рік тому

    We watched your flight video with interest . We are flying Thai in 3 weeks to Europe in two legs from Melbourne in Business Class.
    We booked it 6 months ago and hope ours goes as well as yours did.
    Thanks for the Information in your Videos.

  • @philipguacci6452
    @philipguacci6452 Рік тому

    I flew Thai in December 1982 MEL to BKK then on to Rome. It was a 747-200. The connection was tight and we nearly missed the onward leg. Eventually on to London and the return to Australia via Rome and BKK. Still have the Gold Orchid you could purchase from the duty free cart. Full flights, tired crew, different languages on board. Someone needed oxygen, drama with oxygen bottle. Overall we were glad to get back on Jan 1983. What an experience. I have not been back to my birth place of UK since.Cheers from me.

  • @kingcasino5884
    @kingcasino5884 Рік тому

    Hi Dennis,good review as always, would love to try Thai airways,in fact would like to get to Bangkok.so a future trip hopefully.so sad to see the old 747s parked up.thank goodness for freight,still see the odd one at heathrow.stay& fly safe.👍

  • @gezatherton1071
    @gezatherton1071 Рік тому +2

    Thanks for another great video Dennis.
    You’re Australia’s answer to Michael Palin!

  • @12morganna
    @12morganna Рік тому +1

    Starting the day with a video of Dennis, it's going to be a good day 😊

  • @Travelsbydreamer
    @Travelsbydreamer Рік тому

    Awesome stuff Dennis, an airline that I've long wanted to try. Fantastic overview as ever!

  • @jowillard2373
    @jowillard2373 Рік тому

    Keep the videos coming Dennis! I have adopted the tap on the plane before entering myself. Cheers to a great flight.

  • @Nae395
    @Nae395 Рік тому

    Great stuff Dennis I certainly will give them a go next trip to Europe. As long as it's on the A 350

  • @peterking3186
    @peterking3186 Рік тому

    I had fly with that company for nearly 25 years cph-bkk and I must say Everything is change only the famous smile is great after 60 times I’m looking for competition Thai is a saga 🎉

  • @gototheantusluggard2644
    @gototheantusluggard2644 Рік тому

    Flew on a Thai Airways B747 from BangKok to HKG sometime ago (pre Covid) ….. excellent service as always

  • @filonru
    @filonru Рік тому +1

    Only had positive experiences on Thai Airways, both in economy (Tokyo to Bangkok holiday trips with the kids) and business class (Brussels - Bangkok round trip). Both classes offer good food as well as friendly, attentive service. Will fly Thai again if I have a chance to do so.

  • @accesser
    @accesser Рік тому

    Awesome to see you flying again, another great review, @2:53 unusual luck on your part

  • @SABAI15
    @SABAI15 Рік тому +1

    Great video Denis, i really enjoyed it. I travel from Adelaide to Bangkok 2 or 3 times a year and I have never flown with Thai Airlines. If there was a direct flight from Adelaide I would definitely fly Thai. The most direct options for me are Singapore Airlines or Malaysia Airlines. I always go with Singapore Airlines

  • @Neil-clare
    @Neil-clare Рік тому

    After watching you videos very early on…..I travel a lot and always touch the side of the aircraft before I board! 🙌🏻 great video 👍🏻

  • @nerikkarlsson119
    @nerikkarlsson119 Рік тому +5

    Hey Dennis Thanks for a nice report (as always) We flew down to our winter accommodation from Sweden (Stockholm) to Thailand (Chiang Mai) in November. This year we chose to fly with Thai airway. Have in recent years flown with Qatar ., which we were very satisfied with . The reasons we chose Thai were that we want to avoid rechecking our luggage in Bangkok and that the travel time will be shorter. This was a stupid decision. I believe that the service from Thai has become clearly worse than when we last flew with them. The only thing we had nothing to complain about was the cabin staff. They did their best with the resources they had to work with. We will return to Qatar on the next order of tickets. We missed: Being able to order the food when we want to eat ourselves (Qatar's catering is higher class), The seats are also clearly better, Especially the Q suite which we love. The travel time is longer with Qatar, but the Lounge in Doha makes it not feel like a problem. After all, we are pensioners now and have no time stress. We hope our return trip to Sweden will be a more pleasant experience

  • @klausw.5612
    @klausw.5612 Рік тому

    Thai Airways, for me the best, maybe not the best service, but the spirit on board is unbeatable 🇹🇭✈️ ผมรักมากประเทสไทย❤️

  • @Skyluxtravel
    @Skyluxtravel Рік тому

    An amazing and detailed review of Thai Airways business class. Very useful for travelers.

  • @michaelcollins6973
    @michaelcollins6973 Рік тому

    We flew with Singapore from Amsterdam to Phuket in Jan and then back in Feb, we pre booked our meal and made use of the book the cook option. This way you get the food you want. Although we are from the UK the price difference from Amsterdam is massive. About £4000 less for my wife and I. Also Singapore gave us free internet.

  • @jimhankinson4428
    @jimhankinson4428 8 місяців тому

    I flew with them from Suvarnabhumi to Dhaka a year or so ago, and I thought they were really good, although it was an old 777 (2-2-2); I'll be flying with them in this aircraft in a couple of months from BKK to Lahore, and I'm really looking forward to it.

  • @stewartgrant7724
    @stewartgrant7724 Рік тому

    HI Dennis Another great video it was good to see that you had a great experience.
    It was good to see Thai Airways back flying again after all that they have been through over the last few years and covid did not help neither am I correct at one stage they were almost in Liquidation after all the money they had been losing.
    Hopefully this time the product will be better as there is many different airlines in Thailand now.
    Looking forward to your next journey.

  • @AstraExplorator
    @AstraExplorator Рік тому

    Fantastic review- looking forward to flying business with them

  • @FelixExplores
    @FelixExplores Рік тому

    Dennis your videos ALWAYS inspire me and this one of my favorites !!! Thanks for flying Thai airways mate lucky you!👍😉 they don't service any in Perth where I am but hope they can make a return and rollout back into the sky😔

  • @pigedehekkan
    @pigedehekkan Рік тому

    Nice review. 👍
    Looking forward to travel in Thai business myself soon.
    I'm 190cm but I guess it's ok. Looks like the same seats I've had on Qatar several times.

  • @jacobcollins3954
    @jacobcollins3954 Рік тому

    Aww I work at MEL Dennis, missed ya again :( one day i'll run into you :). I flew TG MEL-BKK return in August in Y class, no issue with the hard or soft product. It's just the passengers that are the issue. JQ from now on, way way cheaper too.

  • @Bad_Karma1968
    @Bad_Karma1968 Рік тому

    Always enjoyed Thai airways first and business before Covid on the 380
    As always Dennis a great vlog

  • @RoxyrollersBC
    @RoxyrollersBC Рік тому

    Glad you had a great flight on TG. My experience was quite the contrary. I flew them from BKK to NRT on a 777 so I agree it was dated but the service was mediocre at best. They even did send me a survey post flight which I completed and I never heard back. They probably don’t like constructive criticism. And yes, they did not even had a Menu for food in business class. I will probably fly them again because I have had amazing experiences with them in the past so I will consider the Jan flight a one off. I connected on an Air Canada flight from NRT to YVR which was significantly nicer.

  • @EliotRecords
    @EliotRecords Рік тому

    Loved the on point "Till next time" from the lounge haha

  • @rduffy9948
    @rduffy9948 Рік тому

    Great video as usual. I flew with Thai about 7 years ago to the UK. Loved the experience, but have found them a bit pricey now compared to other companies. So it is doubtful that l will be booking them anytime soon for my trip north. Look forward to your next video.

  • @jcbroadw
    @jcbroadw Рік тому

    Can't wait to get back to Thailand one of these days!

  • @parasher212
    @parasher212 Рік тому

    The lounge and food look far better than Qantas's dungeon.😉 Liked the wooden floor look in the entry area.

  • @soundoutbose6615
    @soundoutbose6615 Рік тому

    I remember when I flew with thai airways many years back they used to give a fresh Orchid flower 🌺 to all passengers before landing , was a good experience 🙏

  • @sachabunniksglobaladventures

    Great review, I really need to try Thai, keep up the wunderbar airline reviews

  • @mnewm21
    @mnewm21 Рік тому

    Flying Thai in 5 days to India so I look forwards to the experience. Only pain is having to get a PCR test before flight due to Thailand being a high COVID risk at present for travel to India! Looking forward to the flights after your review.

  • @jvstcu76
    @jvstcu76 Рік тому +2

    Nice review, as usual. 👍. It's so good to see Thai flying and still offering their delicious meals and friendly cabin service. Years ago, Thai promoted their brand as having "Royal Orchid service". Every passenger received an orchid upon boarding. They did "discriminate" as females received larger orchids than the males and Business Class and First Class orchids were bigger than the Economy Class flowers. 🤣. I do hope that the management will get their "act together" and make Thai the profitable and successful company that it deserves to be. Take care and have a pleasant and rewarding week. 🫂❤️✈️🙏🌎🕊

  • @emmo_93
    @emmo_93 Рік тому

    Thanks for another great review, I'm flying trans tasman on air nz a321n this weekend :D

  • @cosmocat12
    @cosmocat12 Рік тому

    Love seeing a new video from you. I would certainly fly Thai if I had the chance. Even in economy I bet the food is great.

  • @juanitalennox9757
    @juanitalennox9757 Рік тому

    I always enjoy your reviews Dennis. I did think the food looked a bit basically presented. I didn’t feel that Thai has the usual business class finess that is normally seen. I think I prefer other business classes over Thai. Still as always enjoyed watching your review.

  • @fry888chip
    @fry888chip 10 місяців тому

    Another great review, thanks Dennis!

  • @julies5773
    @julies5773 Рік тому

    Looks fab! Will need to try Thai!

  • @superlogistics1
    @superlogistics1 Рік тому +2

    Thai used to be great, but it’s an airline I won’t consider nowadays unless the prices are competitive enough

  • @davidbalcon8726
    @davidbalcon8726 Рік тому

    Amenity kit was almost identical to the TK economy Mandarin Duck kit I received on a pre-COVID flight!

  • @yenriver5255
    @yenriver5255 Рік тому

    awesome take. We are going to fly to Koh Samui from Melbourne soon. Is that the standard plane now?

  • @mikeedwards9306
    @mikeedwards9306 Рік тому

    Always a good succinct presentation, thanks

  • @loeshalberstadt9998
    @loeshalberstadt9998 Рік тому

    Never flew with Thai but i love this video. Hoi from Holland🇾🇪

  • @raymondleongdiva
    @raymondleongdiva Рік тому

    As always you have one if not the best videos for av geeks. I just say I agree Thai business class never fails. But what is disappointing and I have recently exp a couple of times is their economy class. Imagine we all know they have mis managed their
    airline way before COVID. So cost cutting is the norm but what irks me get this they took away the headphones for a 2 hrs flight without any apology or explanation. They have taken away their menus hot towels and even their cutlery is still plastics. It's sad indeed and some of their aircraft are getting old. Thai airways was nvr like that say about 5 years and before. It has changed so badly it's no more worth flying them but I would admit their meals are always good.

  • @richryan8904
    @richryan8904 Рік тому

    Great video as always Dennis. Thank you. I’ve watched you for a few years know and I had no idea you were SO tall. 613 feet. Blimey! 😅😅

  • @shaunscully1173
    @shaunscully1173 Рік тому +1

    Thai are great. Not the most polished compared to the middle eastern airlines but great food and service , with a lie flat bed and a very significant cost saving compared to the others.. And great European connections from Bangkok onwards.

  • @henryshen5445
    @henryshen5445 Рік тому

    Hi Denis, I met you in an Amcal pharmacy in Melbourne Airport once. Could you do a review on China Airlines or Eva Air?

  • @davidcole333
    @davidcole333 Рік тому

    Hello Dennis. I really thought that was a smart business class configuration. I think that's the right way to do it with maximum number of options for single or double travelers. The catering looked sensational as well. I remember your 747 review from a few years ago. Travel experiences like that are few and far between.

  • @sathro2141
    @sathro2141 Рік тому

    These reviews are the best!

  • @Ulisesrguez
    @Ulisesrguez Рік тому

    You could have also used the Singapore Airlines Lounge on your Thai Business Class ticket.

  • @ryanfrisby7389
    @ryanfrisby7389 Рік тому

    Excellent review Dennis!

  • @georgewest3926
    @georgewest3926 Рік тому

    Quality Dennis pure quality 👌

  • @CaptainAB
    @CaptainAB Рік тому

    Another amazing video! Thanks Dennis!

  • @heathertruskinger6214
    @heathertruskinger6214 Рік тому

    Hi Dennis.
    I love the view from the tail camera..that's pretty Cool.
    Food looks great, I would've eaten everything that you chose... although I doubt my tummy is big enough ! 🤣

    • @DennisBunnikTravels
      @DennisBunnikTravels  Рік тому

      Thanks, Oman was wonderful. We have one small Oman package on www.bunniktours.com.au but a lot more on the way.

  • @MrButtonpresser
    @MrButtonpresser Рік тому

    I'm not a fan of aisle seats that lack a barrier between you and the passageway. I find the disturbance factor of people and trolleys passing to be annoying. I always pick the inner seats when available. Off to the UK in July with Emirates BC on their majestic A380!

  • @stewartfarrall483
    @stewartfarrall483 Рік тому

    I'm jealous I'm going bangkok August 3rd can't wait

  • @fredob43
    @fredob43 Рік тому

    I stopped flying Thai Air years ago. What happened well onboarding was they had changed my pre-booked seat and had given it to a Thai national. This happened 3 times in all, the last time the seat had a problem. Since then I won't even look at Thai Air flights. I always used them to fly BKK LHR. Never again. The latter year I stopped flying B/A as their food/service was at best rubbish. Now when I do the same trip I always use EVA Air, Now they are 5* first class. Tip if you have a choice don't fly either Thai or B/A. Great vlog as usual but not for me.

  • @jasonpb27
    @jasonpb27 Рік тому +4

    Thai for me has gone down hill, flown business class many times but the last few flights were problematic, water leaking from the ceiling onto me the entire flight, two spare seats were available however the crew member was sleeping and they weren't prepared to swap with me or move to economy, they gave me a towel for my head. Other issue was a person sitting in my seat, he decided he wanted to sit with his wife even though he had an economy ticket (lost their passports) Thai staff asked me to sit in economy offering me no refund or credit for the flight. From watching this video, it looks as though the food has gone downhill as well.

    • @clivebaxter6354
      @clivebaxter6354 Рік тому +1

      sounds typical Thai, outrageous, food was never good

  • @NLAviation
    @NLAviation Рік тому

    Great flight review thank you!

  • @BazzaOTW
    @BazzaOTW Рік тому

    Their prices always feel a bit 'Exxy' to me but for a direct flight to BKK hard to beat as an offering.
    Good to hear what you think of this service post-COVID, restructure and since retiring the 747 which I did previously.

  • @TerrySaxon-sr9ow
    @TerrySaxon-sr9ow Рік тому

    Cheers Dennis.......watching your video has tipped the scales for flying Thai to London from Melbourne
    Now apply for your commission 😅

  • @andrewjohnston6841
    @andrewjohnston6841 Рік тому

    Great video Dennis

  • @laurarodger3028
    @laurarodger3028 Рік тому

    Awesome video as always xx

  • @graemescobie1623
    @graemescobie1623 4 місяці тому

    Hi Dennis,
    I have a question about the length of the seat when it is in the bed configuration. I am 6'4". I just dont want to in a bed that is too short. Thank you for your help.
    Graeme

  • @OVTraveller
    @OVTraveller Рік тому

    Hi Dennis, enjoyed the Thai flight review. Note with great interest your connecting flight to Oman. Care to provide a link to your company's Oman explorations? Cheers and Thanks....Otto Van de Velde

  • @onair6652
    @onair6652 Рік тому

    Great video thanks for sharing

  • @Grzegorz_Grzeg
    @Grzegorz_Grzeg Рік тому

    Greetings from Poland Dennis!

  • @sashaqueenie
    @sashaqueenie Рік тому

    Excellent video. I thought that the chairs looked dated and sad. Surprised that you couldn’t get what you want to eat on business class. And that Wi-Fi wasn’t free for business class passengers. That’s nasty.

  • @Kiianu
    @Kiianu Рік тому

    Dennis, Do you know why Thai Airways and Garuda Indonesia Not flying from Perth?

  • @gototheantusluggard2644
    @gototheantusluggard2644 Рік тому

    Are you and the Jeb guy who’s got a UA-cam channel as well from the 🇺🇸 siblings? ….urll are similar in more ways than one 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿⭐️⭐️⭐️great content and you’ve got a new subscriber 😎✊

  • @farzaneshafieienglishteach499
    @farzaneshafieienglishteach499 Рік тому +2

    Thai Airways is one of the worst airlines I have ever experienced. It took me more than 42 hours to go back home from Thiland to Sweden. The service was awful and when I reached Arlanda I had already the connecting flight and no one was there to help or provide another flight and I was wondering for 14 more hours with absolutely NO service at all at the airport to go back home. I wrote to them more than ten times and the only thing they did was just ignoring and saying we have nothing to give you but apology 😤🤯How an airline can be so irresponsible 🤬they have to stop working 👎what they do is obvious robbery

  • @unitedcomputers
    @unitedcomputers Рік тому

    Good one, mate !

  • @parairealain3439
    @parairealain3439 Рік тому

    Thai airways was a good airline before covid 19. I took Tg from cdg to bkk . Average service on board.
    What a pity

  • @MourgeMeister
    @MourgeMeister Рік тому

    Hi Dennis
    How would you rate the Latam boeing 787-8
    Or just the airline itself as we are are planning to go to Peru from Australia and curious to know if it's a good airline or not

  • @Kumari891
    @Kumari891 Рік тому

    I'm sorry. It's totally not related to the video but it's urgent and I don't know who to ask. My carry-on luggage length is 26" including wheels and the allowed length is 22" with wheels. Is it okay to take my 26" long luggage as carry on? Will there be any problem?
    Can you pls help me by answering this comment?

  • @Nae395
    @Nae395 Рік тому

    Lovely meal Dennis

  • @josephcheng5949
    @josephcheng5949 Рік тому

    The Thai welcome drinks are the best.

  • @jonhobson3592
    @jonhobson3592 Рік тому

    Sad to see the 747’s. When I came in October lots of A380’s too 😢

  • @debramage739
    @debramage739 Рік тому

    Thanks Dennis 😊

  • @nomiau
    @nomiau Рік тому

    I miss the Rimowa amenity kits

  • @santinomamone2674
    @santinomamone2674 Рік тому

    Flew them a few times legend

  • @MrSirViking
    @MrSirViking Рік тому

    For those of you looking for the link to that 747 flight its right here: ua-cam.com/video/XDPf1deFreg/v-deo.html But once again a great review by Mr. Bunnik. Always nice to watch these videos.

  • @MoatlessCapital
    @MoatlessCapital Рік тому

    Rather than touching the plane right of the cabin door like Dennis Bunnik, I take a deep breath before stepping aboard. 😅

  • @olavthewiking3700
    @olavthewiking3700 Рік тому

    thanks for the review. I would never take Thai C class based on this post covid service-for me food portions were actually rather small, and You need to pay for wifi in C???? this is cost cutting to the extreme. i would say some Y class will offer you rather similar food, i.e. EK or TK. I used to fly years years back, when it was one of the best, even better than EK. Now-very average cost cutting airline. Petty to see thai been going down to low cost C airline.

  • @andreaswalther7682
    @andreaswalther7682 Рік тому

    I have flown a few airlines in business class but I would say, seeing this and other comments Thai unfortunately would not be on the top of my list for my next travel. It looked old and dated which is a shame