Jacobites versus Covenanters
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Jacobites and Covenanters represented the biggest divide in Scottish history, but Scottish history tour guide, Bruce Fummey points out how similar they were and the key individual and turning point that flipped the switch between them. Bluidy Clavers, or Bonnie Dundie
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Scotland History Tours is here for people who want to learn about Scottish history and get ideas for Scottish history tours. I try to make videos which tell you tales from Scotland's past and give you information about key dates in Scottish history and historical places to visit in Scotland. Not all videos are tales from Scotland's history, some of them are about men from Scotland's past or women from Scotland's past. Basically the people who made Scotland. From April 2020 onward I've tried to give ideas for historic days out in Scotland. Essentially these are days out in Scotland for adults who are interested in historical places to visit in Scotland.
As a Scottish history tour guide people ask: Help me plan a Scottish holiday, or help me plan a Scottish vacation if your from the US. So I've tried to give a bit of history, but some places of interest in Scotland as well.
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I'm really looking forward to seeing u at Eastwood theatre on October 6th, my birthday, so it's a brilliant treat for me, cant wait👍 thanks for continuous gems of videos!
I wondered if you seen the latest article about "Death masks help recreate face of Bonnie Prince Charlie" in The Guardian. Jeez, what a dweeb. Hard to believe he could raise an army of men willing to fight and die for him. If he was born today, he'd probably be dying his hair blue and identifying as non-binary.
I don’t know if it’s on your list but I for one would would be intrigued in a piece on the Covenant and the civil war :-)
As a Czech, I don't have ties to either side... and as a Czech Protestant with Moravian Wallachian roots on one side of the family, if I did want to relate, I would have to relate to both, with a history of religious persecution, secret meetings outdoors, foreign kings with family claims to the throne, and uprisings in hilly and mountainous regions, like Wallachia...
... and maybe that's one of the reasons Czechs often seem to find Scotland oddly familiar. 😅
My Mom was very proud of her Scots ancestry (her father was first born American) She was also proud to state they were Presbyterians. As a young child, I didn’t understand what all her words meant. She was a history major and would have enjoyed discussing it with you. Her last time in Scotland was Spring 1945 to visit her cousins after the surrender. She barely made it back to Verdun, as the US Army was packing up to move into Germany. My Mother wore combat boots.
I have her old books on Scotland.
The history of the covenanters is such a fascinating part of Scottish history. Always happy to hear it spoken.
I’m so dumb! I thought there was Jacobites and Royalists and many none of those !
This American descendant of Covenanters and Williamites from Lowland Scotland and Northern Ireland WISHES you'd been my history professor during my school days! Enjoyable content to the utmost on your channel, good sir!
Only one English regiment at Killiecrankie, which was Colonel Ferdinando Hastings Regiment of Foote. The rest were all Scottish primarily from a brigade that was in Dutch service at the time, plus some regiments from the lowlands raised for the campaign. These men were all under the command of a Scottish general, Hugh Mackay. Scots Lowlanders fighting Highlanders in a civil war over religion, way of life and economics. Also remember that William was only given legitimacy through his wife Mary who was a Stuart and should be remembered as joint rulers, which they were at the time.
🤔
@ScotlandHistoryTours sorry mate more general info surrounding one of the topics you discuss. I've always felt that historically Scotland was almost 2 different countries and cultures rather than one whole entity. I think that your stories add to that feeling.
I think because you mentioned that Dundee defeated an army of "Redcoats" it always makes people; with only a passing interest in this period of history, think of English soldiers. The actual truth, as you show in all your videos, is far more complicated
One of those Lowland regiments was Leven's Regiment - said to have been raised in under 2 hours in Edinburgh - which eventually became the King's Own Scottish Borderers (KOSB's) and thence (on amalgamation with the Royal Scots) the 1st Bn. Royal Regiment of Scotland
@@paulspaintshed3511Bruce is pretty liberal with his use of "redcoats" - I presume it's to appeal to Americans who see them as an evil enemy. It's a shame, because the actual stories paint a much more nuanced and complicated picture.
Really appreciate you finally giving the Covenanters and what happened during the Killing Times a bit of profile. I think even most Scots are ignorant of what happened
I've long considered myself a jacobite sympathiser and no I can honestly say I haven't seen outlander. After a visit to culloden as a child I have done my own research but I do see similarities with the covenanters and the way they were persecuted. Just goes to show everything depends on your point of view. Something new to look into. Thanks Bruce for keeping my love of history alive.
Doesn't matter which person in power is right, the little people on both sides get my sympathy. Because they're always the ones getting killed over it, and they don't get stone markers and songs.
AIN'T IT JUST AIN'T IT 😎
I would side more so with the Covenanters. Despite the fact that they were no more ruthless and intolerant as the Jacobites, they planted the seeds, although not yet fully developed, for proto-democracies including the ideas of separation of religion from government, election of representatives, and providing education for all at least to read (because they wanted people to know their Bibles), all these things needed for the modern democracies to come.
A'reyt Bruce. Very interesting. This is something seldom mentioned here in England.
Religious issues became less something mentioned in history, once the economy became the focus, at this time.
Hail from Fergus Ontario 🍁 🇨🇦 Canada . The largest Highland Games in Canada.Since 1946 the 77th
Fergus Scottish Highland Games occurs the second week of August annually. Volunteering helps keep the festival alive. 🎉🎉
Well done lass
I'm doing live shows in Canada in 2024. Fergus on 28th June. Shows in New Glasgow, Halifax, Annapolis, Moncton, Montreal, Perth , Ottawa, Toronto, Fergus, Seaforth, Calgary, Vancouver and Victoria. Most of the details are here www.brucefummey.co.uk/shows.aspx
Love the history lesson we’re getting, it’s the real story behind the story about the history of Scotland,
amazing historical facts, Scotland and it’s people are a very very special place! 12:36 😅 12:36
,
I've been a Jacobite sympathiser for most of my life. I'm from Nova Scotia, in Canada, and my mother's family ancestors came here from the Hebrides in the 1800s. When I grew up, I remember often hearing stories about the Jacobites told by family members. The problem with this, however, is that these stories were often told to me with a very one-sided historical perspective and in a very white-and-black sort of way. Like, I was told that my ancestors were Jacobites, that they were righteous, brave, friendly, pure, kind, smart, loyal and just about every other positive quality, whilst everyone they fought against were basically the devil and were the embodiment of evil. Over the past couple years, I have started looking more and more into Scottish history (that's also how I found this YT channel) and, while I still sympastise with my ancestors, I do realise that opposing groups, such as the Covenanters, certainly had some good aspects. I was raised a Catholic (although I mostly only go to church at Christmas and Easter) and, whilst I very much disagree with the penal laws enacted after the Revolution of 1688, I do recognise that this Revolution also triggered a massive change in the relation between monarch and parliament which would go on in the following centuries to prove essential to to the development of modern political theories and greater amounts of democracy.
I'm doing live shows in Canada in 2024. Shows in Halifax, Annapolis, New Glasgow, Moncton, Montreal, Perth , Ottawa, Toronto, Fergus, Seaforth, Calgary, Vancouver and Victoria. Most of the details are here www.brucefummey.co.uk/shows.aspx
I believe the divide is more than merely a Scottish issue or limited to a few centuries ago.
It’s the same conflict Echoing and transforming down the Ages throughout the Isles. Cavalier or Roundhead, Whig or Tory, High church or Low church, Nationalist or Unionist.
Very insightful video Bruce!
That’s easy I’m definitely a nationalist. Scotland will be free its only a matter of time , looking at the 💩 show , Westminster isn’t fit to govern England let alone over 4 countries which it’s destroyed btw 🏴
It's religion and kings, that's the problem right there. Great video Bruce and much appreciated, thank you.
There's a covenanters grave in the pentland hill not far from carnwath, an Ayrshire lad supposedly carried up there so he could see the hills of Ayrshire one last time before he died
Bruce, I really enjoy your story telling and recommend your work to friends and family. Being a Stewart that is researching my ancestry, I will be in Scotland for the first 2 weeks of September. I am looking up your showtimes and plan on attending a show or two. Didn’t know much about the Covenanters until now. Interesting.
I look forward to seeing you
Yet another brilliant, insightful piece. Our family has Scottish origins but have been in the USA for quite some time so I certainly cannot claim to be Scottish. Our origins were never a huge topic of discussion growing up but curiosity and the Internet have certainly allowed me to better understand our heritage. My father's family are from Galloway (little town of Sorbie) and my mother's family from the Argyll. The geopolitical issues of the time would have made them Covenanters and Jacobites I suppose as the broad Family/Clan histories would support. I have a much clearer understanding of the many family customs, traditions and practices which we still follow today without reference to their origins that I would have without my own feeble research but in particular such clear sighted "story telling" that you provide. It's interesting (and a bit sad) to see that we still have many of those same divisions today and that perhaps too many of us cling to a romantic vision of a truly horrific time for both sides. After all, most were just trying to feed, cloth, and house their families. Thanks so much Bruce.
Hi, I think we may be distantly related, my gr.grandmother was a Hanny, her family came from Sorbie, Sorbie Tower. It's undergoing restoration, my cousin went to see it a few years ago. We too have been here in the US for many many years. My father's side was from the highlands and the isles and my mom's were from lower. But in either case my cousin and I love the history and research of our ancestors. 😂
P.s. spelled the name wrong, Hannay
@@christinecrapser5033 Well as Bruce would say, we're all Jock Tomson's bairns! Perhaps we are if one goes back far enough...mine came from Sorbie as well, then to Ulster and on to the Appalachians. Lots of spellings as you know and the family influence faded long ago.
Ah, two more distant cousins. :-)
Bill Hannah.. Many Covenanters' Monuments around where I live.
@@jshanna01 mine went north to finally settle in the hills in upstate NY, but I know they had relatives in the Appalachian area.
Good to see you big man👊🏼🏴
I've long said that chur ch and government are just 2 different means of achieving the same goal. Control of the people, power. Both need to go
Those rivalries between Highland Episcopalians and Lowland (Later Ulster) Presbyterians exploded in my state of North Carolina during the American Revolution. North Carolina wasn't so much a fight between Continental and Redcoat as it resembled the chaotic clan feuds of the old country. The battle of Moores Creek Feb 27, 1776 was the first battle of the war fought in North Carolina and it was 100% colonists Loyalists Highlanders vs Rebellious Scotch-Irish. The chaotic feuding persisted well after the battle of Yorktown in 1781. As a history teacher- I love your channel
Love your work, look after your health, you're a treasure.
Nearly 200K subscribers and nearly 300 videos! You do an excellent job and I hope you keep them coming. You've got the documentary riveting voice/inflections etc. and you must have been an excellent physics teacher. How can we push you past 200K?
I have a few Jacobites on my Grandmother's side of the family tree & a good few covenanters on my Grandfather's (Margaret Wilson the martyr is my 8th great Grandaunt, we came through her brother Thomas) my sympathies go to everyone, both sides faced brutal & horrific oppression & persecution.
By the way Bruce! Again, a brilliant, impartial presentation!
Good day Bruce another great video .well done 👍 wish you well . Elgin
Thanks 👍Maybe see you at the Lossiemouth gig www.breakneckcomedy.co.uk/shows/bruce-fummey-lossiemouth
I never really knew what the difference was, only that here in the US I used to buy bottles of Traquair House Brewery’s Jacobite Ale. It’s quite good so I guess I’d be a drunken Jacobite? 🍻 what I do know is my 5th great grandfather William Graham was born in Killiecrankie in 1750, married Elizabeth Adair (no other info on her) and died in 1816 in Kentucky. I’ve always wanted to know why my ancestors came to the US, but Alt least I know where one came FROM, and roughly when (no later than 1796 since 4th ggp was born in Kentucky).
I have a 4x GG called William Graham too, he went Ireland though not USA.
@🏴Scotland History Tours w/Bruce Fummey
My sympathy definitely goes to the Jacobites , don't know roo much about them Brucy but something about em got my attention probably because they were from the Highlands and preservers of Gaelic culture and customs
You do know many Highland clans fought against the Jacobites
Your sympathy goes to the people who believed in absolute monarchy, hated democracy and believed that kings were divinely picked by god himself?
I can really understand the Scott's dislike of a king that wasn't Scottish, even if the Stewart Kings were not the best at least they had ties to Scotland
Was the point not that the country was divided. Some wanted one thing, but others wanted the alternative?
Kings are related to other Kings not peasants, be they Scottish or anything else.
@@ScotlandHistoryTours ah I see I understand now 😊
@@julianshepherd2038 that maybe but it was important that they had direct ties to Scotland
@pamelasloane1664 why?
I have sympathy for both Jacobites and Covenanters, both were victims of oppression at different times. As a Presbyterian pastor in the USA, I may have a wee bit more sympathy for the Covenanters.
My family were covenanters from Galloway and came here at the time of struggles.
Could you do a video on what Presbyterians and Episcopalians are, and why that's important for Scottish history? I'm confused about what the difference is between them. Thanks.
Maybe
At a very basic level, Episcopalians (Church of England, Church of Scotland, Church of Ireland, etc) have a hierarchical structure lead by bishops, whereas Presbyterians are led by elders and don't have complicated rites. Most Roman Catholics lump them together as "protestants" without realising that Episcopalians have much more in common with Catholicism than do Presbyterians. It's obviously more complicated than I have described but it gives you a rough idea and a starting point for research. The frightening part of all this is that we all believe in the same fundamentals, including Jews and Muslims to a large degree - but seem "hell-bent" on fighting one another 😢 0:13
Amazing how religion leads to killing, of course I understand it was just one part of the issues.
@@johnfinister5011 Thank you!
my sympathy lies with those who just want to go to their work in the week, and go to whatever they worship on whatever they consider holy days, and go home in between. some of my earliest American ancestors came over after getting kicked out of half the countries in europe over their religious beliefs; and while I'm sure other ancestors did a bit of kicking, I've come to the conclusion that it's best to find common ground.
My mother's family are Robertsons. The Reid's emigrated to the America's to escape the crazy that was tearing Scotland apart.
One thing about Scottish history - it's never dull!
Aye, true
Right, I think I’m somewhere in the middle as one who was raised a small Presbyterian Scottish American community. I suppose we have to consider the era during which these events occurred and the part religion played in European history and politics. A lot of moving parts but one thing is for certain, England was always the biggest player in The S$itpot.
I come to Scotland often and enjoy your vast knowledge of Scotland’s history. Thank you Bruce Fummey!!
Covenanters - "We don't need no stinkin' bishops!"
I'm looking forward to seeing you at the Stand Bruce... Rock on brother 🙃
Yeah man
I’d never heard of the Covenanters til I started watching your videos that’s how good Glasgow schools were in the 70’s and 80’s
Great work Bruce 👍
Thanks 👍
I have an ancestor that arrived in the Colonies in 1680. A Rev William Robertson. He would have been Episcopal as Reverend is not a term used by Presbyterians. But trying to ascertain why he left Scotland for the Americas, fathered a few children then returned to Scotland. He is buried at Greyfriars Kirkyard. I am most interested into why he came across then returned.
I’m a weekend Covenanter with Erskines Regiment , was At Fort George this weekend doing displays, there is good song on YT , The Covenanter Soldier , worth a listen .😊
A great Scottish Guy 😊
There's a Town named Glencoe here in Alabama 😎.... I don't know the history of it's namesake....l went back and Googled it, it in fact was named after Glencoe Scotland.... Now you know, Scotty in Alabama 😎
IIRC in the village where I grew up, there's a memorial to a couple of covenanters in the local churchyard. I'll have to go a-googling to find out more.
Thanks!
Ah thanks
Interest in The Jacobite Rebellion has seemed to increase in the past 7 years due to the Tv show Outlander.
Absolutely brilliant my man,loved watching this. My grandfather was in the Cameronian regiment and his brother's too in ww2. A regiment which no longer exist ,same as kings Scots borderers.Would love you to do a video on the migration of Irish to Scotland as my great grandfather and grandmother came from Derry to work the Lanarkshire mining pits. My great grandfather used to break in the horses and also work the pits. My great grand mother brought the family over 3 years after my great grandfather came over to find work. Eventually settling in Blantyre. His name was Carnelious Logue!!
L
My ancestor Sir James Turner fought for everyone bar the Covenanters, whom he cheerfully slaughtered, executed & dragooned. Even though he earned an MA from Glasgow University and was educated he was hardened in the Continental religious wars. Also surprisingly he had a mixed marriage which for the time was rare.
Thank you for your videos that are always really interesting.
My pleasure!
BRILLIANT performance in THE LOST KING! I just watched you on Acorn streaming. Well done!
Cool, thanks!
Excellent and thought provoking as always. We sort of regard history as in some way cuddly and rather picturesque. Actually, it usually wasn't. Hopefully 'those days are gone now, and in the past they must remain...'
Love your videos! And it was a delightful surprise seeing our favorite Scottish historian in The Lost King on Acorn (we're in the U.S.). Great job in that, too!
Ah thanks
Another great video. You always teach me something. Thank you
Glad to help
Is that tunnel bridge, i could never understand how they followed kings from the Netherlands more than other kings and William of orange, i think it was just a case of anything but England.
Was always confusing but now I know. Thanx.
I had never realised that it was King Billy who was responsible for the murder of the McDonalds
I have a suggestion for you - as I watch your videos I often need to look up Scottish words like cairn. I had no idea what that word meant. My suggestion is that when you say a Scottish word like cairn that you put up a small text box, in Italics, listing the word and a brief English description of the term. As an American, I have no idea if Brits would know the meaning of some of the Scottish terms like cairn or if they would need to look them up as well. the other problem is that I have trouble getting my Alexa or Siri to recognize my voice saying these words because they aren’t part of the digital American English dictionary. Therefore, I often have to pause the video and type the word in after have closed captions turned on so I can spell the word. Sometimes closed captioning gets it wrong, but it mostly appears to spell the word properly.
Bruce! Excellent work, brother.
Thank you kindly
These events may seem like "Ancient History" to people today, but they were relatively recent history at the time of the American Revolution/War for Independence. Many of the participants were only removed from these events by a generation or two. Many were in the Americas as a result of these events. A lot of these events have direct bearing on why the U.S. Government was set up the way it was, specifically the First and Third amendments. People today tend to forget or never learned these lessons.
Ah, nevermind. Santayana is also ancient history and has no bearing on today. He died over seventy years ago. Things like that would NEVER happen today.
Aye, ye've no got yer problems tae seek the noo
My ancestors were coven answers because they were Presbyterians.
I’m glad that they came to America and I’m glad that they got their religious freedom.
Wow, once again I learned something entirely new about our history, thank you Bruce, It just goes to show that even heroes can be villains & villains can be heroes depending on which historical narrative you're going with... 🏴
My ancestors (on my mother’s side) sailed from Scotland to the coast of North Carolina long before the time of the American Revolution. I traced the line of the McAllisters and the McNeils to Scotland, where I continued following the McTavish line, the Campbells (Earl of Argyll), the Setons, and the Stuarts. I believe that places my mom’s Scottish ancestors on the side of the Jacobites. Right?
Another guid history lesson Bruce . Keep up the good work.
I know that a lot of people don’t know that the statue at Glenfinnan is Not that of Bonnie Charlie but that of Lockhart! (by mistake)! (best not let the Americans know though)!
Invaluable historical presentations these are, Bruce👏👏👏
Exhibits of The Truth👌
(Rare thing nowadays)
Many are loathed to admit it, but two thirds more Scots fought in opposition to the Jacobites - even the 'Bonnie Prince' himself - than ever did, out of support.
Many grew up with the featured songs of Ronnie and Roy... Id always loved their version of 'Killiecrankie' - written by the man who'd also written "Ye Jacobites..." (whilst having naethin but contempt for royals and royalists alike):
Robert Burns... 👋😁👍
...enough to make the head hurt!🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely fascinating information,plenty I never knew before,thanks for All your hard work in bringing this to everyone truly brilliant,you a legend
My pleasure!
Hi Bruce could you do a video on the Argyll Rising or Argyll's Rebellion as its also known. Ive come across this even while researching Monmouths Rebellion and i think it would make a cracking topic for you. Thats assuming youve not already done one and ive missed it. Wood for the trees and all that.
It's been on my mind for some time, though I haven't done one yet
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Yes please do one. Thank You.
Scotland is still divided by religion. I’ve got a Scottish Protestant mum & an Irish catholic dad , I was christened a catholic but after my dad took off we were brought up Protestant. I’ve never heard of the Covenanters but to be honest I’m torn as to which side I support.
Very Kool!!!
You lured me here from your TikTok teaser, brilliant idea.
Ah, I'm delighted. Two days into Tiktok and a result
You raise a very complicated.subject, Bruce. Not being Scottish born but, Cameron on my Mum's side and Stewart on Dad's side. I still feel Scotlands pain. I can Identify with the covenanters on a level which most people can not even begin to comprehend. As well as being Jacobite from Prince John, His curse came down through the bloodline till it reached my Dad. This persecution of the Presbyterian church, which I strongly suspect was through machinations of the Catholic Church. We have to look no further than Spain and Portugal with what they did with the inquisitions, to both Jews and Christians, As I have Black Irish on my Mother's side, that fled Portugal at the time of the Inquisition. Do the Maths. My family up until James the 4th, Yes they were a bunch of rotters, however the hand of the Lord was still upon them. And the price paid. By time we get to James the Sixth. And his zeal to have Bibles even for the common man, was met with a great deal of hostility predominantly from the Catholic church and from that well known European financial house. Germany stood with a great deal to gain should the Stewart/Stuart dynasty fall. James the Sixth refused to bow to them, and they plotted and bided their time. The rest is history. Culloden, the persecutions. The Jacobite uprisings!
Healing and restoration is coming back to Scotland. And Healing and unification to Ireland., Healing and valorization to Wales. And swift judgement to England.
I'm an American, but as a child I lived in London and St. Columba's was our church. I think that makes me a Covenanter, though as an adult I despise Calvinism and am not too fond of Knox.
I am curious why the last monarch to use the reign at name CHARLES was in 1660. was Charles II so poorly regarded that it took this long for Charles III regnant name to be adopted?
Thanks really enjoying im starting warlord epics and the covanters figures looked interesringbaas well as montrose s royalist. I knew more about jacobires as i did enjoy outlander. I always thot the main diffrence was protestent vs catholics.
I'm a bit of both
1:04 "Both groups thought that they were preserving what was divinely ordained."
A sound reason to steer well clear of both of them. Those who can be convinced to believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities.
😂
Comin tae Dunoon for your show......soooo lookin forward tae it 😁
Brilliant
Good to see this perspective and thanks also for the vid on Galloway Levelers. Being a Doonhamer it is part of history that needs to be talked about. Candida Casa next?
Glad you enjoyed it
Aye, but access is restricted the noo
Need to get up to the Communion Stones at Glenkiln some time when I'm hame
@@ScotlandHistoryTours What was the TITLE of your video about the Galloway Levellers? I don't believe I've seen it yet.
ua-cam.com/video/8FA4fuGqfSk/v-deo.html
I have Scottish & Celtic ancestry, I have grown up with a love for the Scots & Celts. I have always had a soft spot for the Jacobite's & not so happy with the red coats long before Outlander. Especially since a lot of them ended in same country I live, Australia. Even though my family came to South Australia as free people, so many people didn't & most of the time it wasn't their fault, the red coats just didn't like them. Since the language hasn't been past down to me, I would love to know what your shirt says & the last lines of you show, if you could enlighten me
Cringe
I love your videos and the knowledge that I gain with each and every one. I'm lost on gaining information on my ancestors. If you know anything about the Gilchrist and would consider a video, I personally would be forever in your debt. Please tell me a story😊
I don't tend to do family stories as such because I don't want others to think it's not for them. Thats not to say a Gilchrist won't come up in some other story
Bruce ! Gone yourself big yin, love this channel, I need to get a long to Glasgow to see the live show.. well done 🙌
'Yeah man. Get there
I have sympathy for both.
May be due to the fact I was born and grew up in Angus, but now live in Ayrshire. Alternatively, could be because I am a Presbyterian, my wife is a Catholic...
That's the correct answer I think
I see myself as a Jacobite sympathizer. Mainly because I like the underdog, lol. Well, that, and my wife's family is the McLaughlins, and her great (x's about six) grandfather was Lachlan McLaughlin. It was strange to walk Culloden and think about him dying there. I wish they had the entire battlefield under the parks care.
I was born in Dundee unfortunately parents moved to England. Im a Jacobite and Will be till I die . My grandmother was a McDonald but turns out im a direct descendant of Francis Drake. Im not proud of the fact he was a slave trader
I haven't noticed anyone comment that it's basically updated graphics Terraria in an alt universe...
Both. Neither.
Being Dutch from Amsterdam, I'd like to tell you a story 😊
In Amsterdam we never liked (and still don't like😮) these weirdo Orange people... They claimed to be your king back then, they claim to be our king today.
I don't know much about Scottish history (so your channel is very helpful, thanks!), but I do know that Amsterdam was quite happy to get rid of Willem 3. Of course he wasn't a king in the Netherlands (we were a republic after all), but he was behaving more and more as one. So... We sent him to your island. Bye bye. We don't need you and your silly royal ideas. Go an play king over there if you want to!
Maybe I should apologise for it. It seems to me you experienced a lot of trouble because of him...
So... Het spijt me...
Loving the videos by the way! Please continue making them!
what a coincidence; here in the states, we're also dealing with an orange guy who seems to think he is our king.
Wasn't the Netherlands a Principality before it was a Republic?
And wasn't it Willem/ William I of Orange (the Silent) who was the main leader of the revolt against Spain - which culminated in the United Provinces?
@@kenbrown2808 hahahaha! 🤣 Do you think he will win again? Is it possible?
@@torrawel He is the only orange man I ever supported. But no they are not going to let him win, even if he wins.
@@douglasherron7534 thanks for asking. The answer is 2 times no.
Before that we were part of the Habsburg (Spanish branch) empire, and before that part of the Burgundian empire. Before that there was no unified Dutch state, just a few counties (as in with a count) and dukedoms that operated independently from each other and were technically part of the Holy Roman Empire.
We indeed call Willem 1 the father of the nation, but he didn't do that much to gain independence. He actually was, for a long time, in favor of a status quo with the Spanish king as the sovereign. After he finally switched sides, it was basically already too late for things to remain as they were. Soon after that he was shot. It was more his son who managed to fight of the Spanish armies. On the other hand, they had very little power since it were the people of the Staten Generaal (government) who actually were in charge back then and during the whole republican period after that. You can see the Orange guys as being in charge of the army but not of any actual politics.
Hi Bruce! Great story as always! I love how you make all of these ancient peoples come to life like they were no different from you or me - and they ,in fact, weren't! We're all flawed and flawless humans through all these centuries with our beliefs , heroes and adversaries chosen by our own minds and hearts , strong in our convictions. But I thought about the questions you asked us to answer as I listened and came to a conclusion I wasn't expexting! You asked if I was a Jacobite or a Covanenter sympathizer: my answer is I'm both! And, neither. And I'm sounding like you aren't I?😀 Let me explain.
If I never understood why so many Scots came over to the Colonies and then settled largely in the Appalachian Mountains, way far away from English, or really any body else's rule, I do now. Because of the religious wars in Europe, religion itself was a political stance. I'm sure that the irony you bring up to in this video was not lost on the people actually living these atrocities!
Ultimately, some simply wanted to worship as they chose, so they came, the Covanenters, in droves and settled in remote areas in mountains that reminded them of home. (You looked like you were standing in Cohutta Wilderness area here in Georgia to me in a few frames. That's how close it is!) Some came as early as the late 1600s. They built townships in the wilderness. Soon, the fallen Jacobites started coming in even higher numbers and they mostly headed to the Appalachians as well. They were happy and pleased to hear the old Scottish names in these remote towns and find home folk who would allow them to build their churches in town too. It was okay to have two churches in town here. You could be friends with no problem or animosity. You were all kin depending on each other here in the Appalachians. Worship as it should be. I get it now.
It's sad that religion, supposed to be be based on the love of God and your fellow man, was turned into a political tool in Britain and Europe. So much pain and bloodshed for something that was supposed to be the embodiment of love. I feel for all of them. And I hope we continue to grow wiser now.
Both and neither is the right answer😊
Hey Bruce: nothing ever popped up in the top right, not for your videos or your patreon page. Thought you should know.
Thanks for that
My connection to the Covenanters comes via the Oliphant and Davison family. John Oliphant was apparently a Reverend and was persecuted along with his family and followers. Initially imprisoned in Dunnottar Castel and later the Edinburgh Goal, they were offered indenture and transport by the Privy Counsel in lieu of hanging. John Oliphant's daughter Margaret married William Davison (my 8G-father) shortly after arrival in New Jersey in 1685. Transport was via the Henry and Francis according to Privy Counsel records. I have New Jersey Proprietor records that show various wills and deeds to demonstrate the Oliphant and Davison relationship.
The individual who held the indentures on the transportees died during the voyage and family lore says that Oliphant and Davison decided the indenture died with the holder. They absconded to the hinterlands of New Jersey (near Monmouth) and the family grew from there. Sounds like a very Scottish thing to do. Still lots of Davisons and extended family throughout New Jersey. My Grandmother was a Davison.
As always, I enjoy your videos.
I would have to say Covenanter even though I am a Highlander the post Culloden history hit highlanders of both sides.
The MACKAY’s though loyal to the Government suffered terribly during the clearances
Good point
I’m a Mackay who were not Jacobite’s but I don’t know if that makes them Covenanters. Definitely raised Presbyterian.
And an Ulster Scot on top of that.
I love these true genuine stories authenticated by true history , its amazing how much was missed in the past isnt it.
11:30 I don’t understand how that is ironic
I am mostly a Jacobite sympathiser, I haven’t watched any Outlander movies having decided after reading Diana Gabadons first book it was a bit lacking on historically accuracy. Interesting fiction though for those who like romantic historical novels. 😊
I've always considered the jacobites as the attempt to force the country into a Catholic dictatorship but then my heritage is very presbyterian 😄
Most Jacobites were Episcopalian
@@ScotlandHistoryTours was James VII catholic?
I'm a Mcdougal, but with lots of Mcleod and Mclean, for generatons backn to the 1600's
Bruce I have watched all of your facinating videos, my background is Irish Catholic and all of the history which is attached to that especially after the Scots " returned" to the Northern Parts of Ireland. The overriding impression I have from your videos is.......confusion ! One minute I think that I have a grasp of the Scottish history when that feeling is swept away by intrigue, internicine fighting ,religious oppression and the discovery that some famous Scottish leaders were more Norman, Dutch or French than Scottish.
I think that I shall start again at Video no 1 and try once more to get a grip on this convoluted history.
PS. how on Earth to you keep all of this in your head ? Very well done Bruce,keep it up. Brian
😂😂😂
Now we're talking Bruce. That is what I call an excellent video!
As a young man I would come in from work on a Friday, (So had my dad).
He'd always have a dram after work 'on the wages day'.
So I would be greeted at the front door, with with the dynamic duo AKA 'the Corries' blaring from the HI-FI with a plethora of all his favourite Jacobite songs.
Hence, I was indoctrinated in the Jacobite tradition, and stories.
You could've called me a Neo-Jacobi. 😂
The only thing that annoyed me, was everytime I seen anything to do with Covenanters, like the martyrs stones and such. He wouldn't know anything about them. Then I started delving into it myself, and man what a horrible time in our history.
I couldn't understand why it wasn't talked about and sang about like the Jacobite cause?
So what I'm trying to get at in a long way about, is thank you for telling their story. It's overdue in oor wee country. 👍
I would like to think that they never died for nothing. Thanks.