Dude, when we were kids we told our religion teacher that we want to see Life of Brian in a lesson and we actually did. We didn't understand the message of the movie, but our teacher did. I still remember her face watching the movie.
I found that a short nose saddle less secure during aggressive cornering. I like the support and control of the longer nose on the insides of my thighs as I lean through the corner.
Had a fit, not with James, and long story short guy basically slammed my saddle forward as far as possible.. end of fit. Thankfully these videos exist and after watching them a million times I feel much better with my position!
Would be interested to know what James thinks about saddle flex, rail material & how that impacts saddles, and what his view is of saddle profile (the hight of the saddle from the rails)
Same. I just ordered a sq labs 612 active which has an interchangeable piece that changes the flex of the saddle. Probably unnecessary but will be a good experiment.
James is the clean, British version of a Williamsburg hipster and I am here for it. Most compelling moment of this is when is when he looks at your saddle, is struggling with his personal judgment on it and your expectations. Man, that moment is rife with meaning.
I've joined the noseless saddle group recently and so far very satisfied. I've tried the Pro Stealth for a couple of weeks and changed for a Prologo Dimension which is working really nice. Good to know the concept behind it.
I got a bike fit and ended up with a short-nosed Selle Italia. I have quite wide sit bones, so the saddle is pretty wide compared to what pros use. However, it's really comfortable for both road and MTB riding. I've sat on it for up to seven hours at a time and I've never been so comfortable on the bike! I don't know if the shortness is key - I suspect getting the right overall shape was more important - but I do like the fact that I can't really sit in the wrong position. This is something that's not mentioned in the video. With long saddles, people tend to move around and not necessarily sit in the correct place on the saddle. On a short nose, you can only sit in one place, and that's the correct place. This has been a great benefit to me. I don't accidentally sit in the wrong place for an hour and start to hurt. Note: I'm a slower, all-day rider. My experience might be very different to that of a fast rider.
I had to jump a dangerous, deep, wide, open drain across a bike path a few weeks ago. On the gravel bike. The Shimano MTB pedals unclipped. Found myself in the air, with both feet free. When I landed, the only thing stopping me hitting the ground with both feet (at 40 kph), my legs being run over by the pedals, and being hospitalised or worse (an absolute certainty) was the point of the (normal) saddle, which I landed on with my tail bone, so hard that the saddle was displaced. Despite the pain, I stayed upright. When I looked at what had happened, I was pretty convinced I'd broken something, but relieved at the same time, because it could have been much, much worse....and later, about 3 weeks later actually, it turned out there was no break, only an horrendous, internal bruise. That part of the anatomy it turns out, is pretty robust, and the bottom-most verterbrae are all fused together from age 25-30, which I hadn't known before. Anyway, a short-nosed saddle, and I wouldn't be writing this....
I’ve used the power saddle for a couple of years and never had any problems with it. Used it on both my road and MTB and it’s extremely comfortable... A bike fit from James would probably suggest otherwise🤣
The specialized power; one of the most used and preferred road saddles in the world is supposedly getting negative results haha. I have been using mine for a few years now, after trying out a bunch of different saddles. It is an amazing saddle.
I must thank you and James from other videos - slightly different topic - handlebar width - was suffereing from neck and shoulder pain on my road bike (assumed it was just an old whiplash injury which niggles me off the bike sometimes) but also ride a mountain bike with wide bars so never realy thought about it - had a go switching from a 440 to 400mm handlebar - perfect no pain :-) THANKYOU
That last point is probably the most important, everybody's different. Personally I found everything with a long nose, cutout or not, put too much pressure up front, especially when I'm low and aero.
Finally! It's nice to see someone echo my own thoughts. When I look down on my normal saddle I can SEE the ~2cms they have cut off, and think to myself how does removing a part of the saddle I am not in contact with improve anything! The industry is obsessed with short nose saddles, "well, its short therefore it MUST be comfortable"
Thanks guys great clip as always. Another reason for the use of a short nose saddle is if you have a problem with the standard size saddle hitting the back of legs or butt whilst climbing or sprinting for example I am 166cms and ride a Cervelo R5 48 with a slammed 130 stem. The short nose saddle gives me an extra 20mm which makes all the difference :)
Nice work guys. I have made the argument a few times on the interwebs when various people bring up "This is what the pro's do", that I could not care less what the Pro's do, how they ride, how they set up their bikes, and what equipment they use, because they have nothing to do with how I ride. Yet, people get really upset that I don't want to follow 'Pro' trends, FFS.....
Being a former swimmer and now doing triathlons (Still ride a road bike a lot though). I can speak to the short nosed saddle being a great option for those who have made other changes to their position already such as shortening cranks and getting correct handlebars and stem. I went and got a bike fit and then went back for a follow-up to ask about short nosed stuff and I ended up enjoying it much more. Moral of the story. Get a bike fit!
Completely agree a proper bike fit before addressing (perceived) saddle issues is a must. That said, I use a Pro Stealth and love it. Not to be “TMI” here, but I had a surgery a few years back requiring an incision in the perineum, and I I will tell you... The relief channel is now an absolute life saver. If only traditional saddles existed, I’d likely never be able to comfortably ride a bike again. Cheers.
Wow, perfect timing!! I bought a new bike yesterday, and I must loose some centimetres and the front, stem needs to come back by 5 cm, and raised up at least 4 cm "dodgy neck" And on a bus today I had a eureka moment, put the f..... saddle forward , I come home to find this film , James as always very interesting to listen to, but today especially interesting! Thanks!
While I generally love these videos, I didn't really track what James was saying in this one. The video is about short nosed saddles, but he essentially refers to the downsides as either a) pushing it too far forwards or b) having the rear of the saddle too wide causing the rider to move forward (which doesn't have anything to do with the nose). So what about a rider that keeps the saddle appropriately far back and doesn't have rubbing issues causing them to move forward? It doesn't seem like the nose has any functional purpose...
You've opened my eyes on how my build differs from professionals and how it impacts oversteer I experience on my road bike vs balanced position I feel on MTB etc.. Thank you!
Brilliant video - my son has suffered sores recently - got a short nosed saddle to see if it worked .... from listening to this - a bike fit is the answer rather than scatter gun equipment swapping. On it. Cheers James / Francis.
I've tried the Fizik version and I've noticed that it is for very fit cyclists. What I mean by that is that as long as I am dropped really low, the saddle is absolutely perfect. I have a pretty aggressive position for an old recreational cyclist. So, as long and my arms are on the hoods and my elbows bent, or I am in the drops, the saddle is perfect. It is when I sit more upright, say with my arms locked on the tops, that the width is noticed and it pushes my forward. The saddle is defiantly designed for racing.
My experience: i had a long, narrow prologo saddle. Used ir for a year, no, issue. I wanted to get into triathlon, attached aerobars on my bike, made my position much more aerodynamic, I started to feel pressure on my crouch from the narrow saddle. Switched to bontrager short saddle, I realized what I thought was good before wasn't good enough. New saddle feels amazing.
I've tried noseless, and gone back to traditional. Found exactly that, hamstrings contacted wings of saddle, move forward and am then unstable, consistently across a few. Overall though, just found that whilst they may be comfortable initially, I always had extra weight on my hands from the lack of support from a "nose", no matter the tilt. As for that SLR Boost, yucky thigh rub! Happy on a Selle Italia Flite Flow.
I'm riding a 2015 FELT AR, agressive aero frame, with a Specialized Power Expert saddle. Did a bikefit a few years ago. My background is/was heavy powertraining and in combination with the Power Expert saddle that translates into much weight/pressure on my hands (heavy upperbody). I can't shift my weight on the saddle due to the inclinded back. This video convinced me to try it with a new flat saddle. Received it today, will test it tomorrow :)
I bought my Pro Carbon two years ago, & the larger channel wider, nose are way better for the sitbones. You can do more miles with less discomfort in the aero position. The only drawback I didn't realize is that the wider nose means less room for larger thighs. You'll inevitably get larger thighs by riding more any way lol. The other thing not to miss by upgrading to one of these saddles is the obvious weight savings, larger channel means less material used. So it's worth the upgrade, especially if you have smaller legs.
I love these bike fit video just so I can learn and ask questions but at the end of the day I will always go see a good bike fitter than fiddle around myself with my fit but that is just me . thanks again Francis great content as usual and for just being so dam consistent, ur brilliant
I have Power saddles on my bikes and I’ve just purchased a Power Arc which is pretty comfy, I regularly ride 100 milers at the weekend and do not have a problem, I could never get on with a conventional long nosed saddle, could be because I’m small and light however the Power saddles get my sit bones in the correct position, I even have one on my CX bike.
Another excellent video and love the Monty Python reference(s) from James. Plus a bike fit that is actually released on Tuesday! I must be an odd ball. I have a power saddle on my thin tire (tyre) road bike a standard lengths on my gravel (Prologo) and MTB (ergon). I like them all. The only thing they have in common is a pressure relief channel. I will try to pay attention to the flare on the power but it was all good this weekend on a 60+ mile ride.
If you’re hell bent and determined to get a specialized power saddle because “everyone has it” please get the power arch version. As someone who was hell bent on getting one because “everyone had it” I ended up hating the flair and bugged me on rides the arch version is a compromise and feels better
I use the specialized short nose because, as a heavier rider with no ass, I don’t catch my shorts on the shorter nose. I love that saddle (on my gravel bike).
Good to see James and some more Bike Fit Tuesday vids. I started watching your videos a couple months ago, and James and your Bike Fit series really got me into the whole series. It's a rabbit hole of information, which has me second guessing every bike purchase I've ever made. Then again, I've been through 7 bikes since 2013. Started on a 58cm, which at 6'1" with my measures had my reach set way too far. Bike shop sold me a bike that was flat out too big. Since then I've dropped to a 56, but everything has been second hand used. Maybe when the kid hits kindergarten and we're not paying outrageous US daycare costs I'll treat myself to a bike fit and get a bike really dialed in.
After 4 different saddles 2 T shaped 1 V shaped and an ISM triathlon saddle... I never got comfortable, Bought recently a Pro Stealth and i like it. Don't want to change saddle again. I will go for a bike fit if any issues, especially genital numbness which is my biggest problem occur. Not changing saddles again. Is money and time consuming and with no positive results whatsoever... By the way i chose this one 142 width to be exact, cause the one i managed to get better results was the V shaped one. Problem is it was 145 width and was hitting my legs. Also it had gel in it, which i don't want for my long distances. So i got a V shaped one with no gel and more narrow. And as flat as i could cause i have anterior pelvic tilt. Might not be the perfect saddle. But it might be good enough. Thanks for all your videos. They helped me A LOT! I will surely get a bike fit.
Finally went to get a bike fit. The fitter raised the saddle 4 cm, and put on a 130 mm / 6 degree stem pointing upward to get the reach somewhat correct. needless to say, my bike didn't fit quite right! However, I now have the proper measurements to get on the right bike. Thanks James for your expertise & Francis for doing this series - I've certainly been schooled!
My Fizik Vento Argo saddle has been the best saddle I've used. It's the only thing I've used that's stopped numbness. I've tried bike fits, two bikes, 6 other saddles including ISM. this one just fits my anatomy 🤷🏼♂️.
What I've learnt from all these bikefittuesday videos, Position is King! Sort your position out first before trying to "fix" issues with new components. Hi James. When i ride on the drops or lean down to get more aero, the tops of my thighs keep hitting my stomach (which is podgy) should i increase the number of spacers under my stem? I currently have about half the spacers under it.
Record yourself and check how high your knees are at the 3 o clock position. If they're noticeably above horizontal your saddle may be too low and/or forward. If that works and then you struggle to reach the drops, raise the bars. It could also be a crank length issue but that's money... Or it could be the extra weight just being in the way, in which case it'll fix with time.
Having sit bones between 143 and 155, I went with the Specialized Power Arc, which actually has a gentler curve at the front that alleviates some of the issues he mentioned. I’m also able to get right down on my bars which I had never been able to do on previous saddles since the Turbo saddle in the 1990’s
Very informative! I have a Prologo NDR, and one day I love it while the next it drives me nuts. I just can't fine tune it. In fact, I think I can say that about most saddles I've had. The NDR swoops up at the back to angle the hips forward, but it's at such a degree that it leaves you very limited length of flat to position the sitbones on. As as result I find myself going back and forth with almost daily adjustments (I know, it's an OCD thing), trying to find the swell that I've created by keeping the nose slightly up to prevent sliding too far forward. And with the back and forth comes the up and down adjustments as well. With this, I've become pretty well convinced over the years that there is no perfect bike saddle; some of us just have to learn to live with what we have.
Man...I just gave up on the Dimension. I really want to like it, and with the way it's shaped should work right with my fit, but I too just find myself constantly fidgeting with it. Never really get completely right on it. Surprisingly..I had a take off Prologo Nago sitting in a box, put it on and was absolutely wonderful lol
Great critique! I was having soft tissue problems and decided to try the Specialized version. I'm quite pleased with it so far. But whatever floats your boat I guess! Thanks for the vlog. Always educational!
I love youtube comments because they give me so many crazy ideas. I may (or may not, if I don't bother or find the rails are too short to the back) try this out
I havnt yet bought a short nose saddle for my road bike but i am in the process of looking at one. But my experience with a short nose saddle comes from my beautiful Italian handmade Astute Mudlite VT drop nose saddle on my Downhill bike. The difference in feel & freedom of movement on the short nose seat on my downhill bike, to that of my long nose San Marco on my road bike is massive. To the point that if i could find another Astute Mudlite VT, (The Co sadly went bankrupt) with it's carbon rails & carbon/nylon shell, & it's leather cover, ortholite padding, & it's well placed cutout, i would totally get another & put it on my roadbike even though it's an enduro/downhill/saddle.. So my choices are the Prologo Dimension Space, or Ergon SR Comp. I mostly use my roadbike for commuting, but im a flat pedal rider as opposed to clipless, on my road bike as well. Not sure if that changes the ergonomics to suit a short nose saddle better or not. But my experience on my MTB is that i like it way better than the considerably long seat on my roadbike currently.
When James started explaining the weight distribution problem with a short nosed saddle on the average weekend cyclist I honestly started laughing as this was my overall experience when I tried it.
In the past few months I’ve been experimenting with saddles. I’ve gone from a “traditional” shape prologo kappa to a prologo dimension 143 and have also used a prologo dimension NDR. I’m loving the change to a shorter saddle, strangely feels more stable. Next is to try the pro stealth and see what the fuss is about. I’ve never really had saddle issues, and am not getting any from changing (touch wood)
Put a Prologo Scratch M5 short saddle on my gravel bike. Extremely comfortable on rough roads. I can see some advantages in these shorts saddles but like all saddles it is a personal choice. BTW .. TDF winner was apparently riding a short saddle :)
Looking into purchasing a saddle, instead of what came with my new bike, and always love James's very detailed discussions around these topics; wish his business was closer for a bike fit 💯
I personally run a Prologo Kappa Evo STN on road and MTB and it seems to be the best saddle I've found so far. Plenty of padding in the right spots without feeling like big gel cruiser. To top it off it has a hidden relief cutout in the frame of the saddle so no wet underside riding in the rain.
I'm very very happy with my short nose saddle (ISM Adamo Road), but I keep it back, ie clamped at the front on the rails on a setback seatpost, so it basically the same as my regular road saddles, just no nose - that I was not using anyway. The advantage is the pressure relief, in fact doctors are even prescribing them to folks with issues down there. Just bought a coupleof Fizik Mistica's which are similar, but real TT saddles. So far so good.
Jepp! I've tested the specialized power saddle for 80 km on my s6 and ended up with wounds between the legs. My fav saddle is a budged from selle royal without a pressure releave cut/channel. No problems with it for rides over 200k.
I moved to a power saddle. I actually left it in the same position as my normal saddle it replaced (measured from the back not the front). Other than the better sit bone support the main benefit for me was to stop me creeping forward on the saddle as there’s not really anywhere to creep.
This is my favorite channel on you tube, and James, your experience and insight shine through and I feel so much more deeply educated regarding bike fit - so the best part of the best channel. I’d book a fit with you just for the experience of hanging out, seeing the shop, and hopefully confirming that my fit is spot on (well done!). Now, I do have a bone to pick here.... my experience with the power arc saddles to date is that they are somewhat limited when it comes to pushing them forward (and therefore beating the uci ruling). Even with a zero offset post I can only get to about 75mm setback at best (on a tarmac sl6), and I fear it will be even more challenging to get this far forward enough on my pending dogma based on my ideal setback. I think this is a great saddle for me in comfort and fit, and I’ve been riding the big s saddles for 14 years. Is there a possibility that the motivation here was to produce a better shape saddle rather than what you are suggesting? They didn’t simply lop off a few cms from the tip, this is reshaped substantially, and the rail position also reworked. Are you perhaps wrong on the motivation? I’d also add that I loved the toupe saddle, but the challenge from big s again is they have reduced options - hard to get a high end quality road saddle from them that isn’t short.... I’d love to hear your response, thanks again, Steve
I've got a Pro Stealth saddle on my Surly Straggler, best saddle I have ever used on a road bike, works great in fast position and also good for 200-300km rides
Very interesting. I tend to find a saddle and then buy a few so I know I have a long time before I have to start the process again. Currently on the second of my Aspide Narrows, two to go.
I tried a lot of saddles, including some exotic SMP's. I've tried Romin, Toupe and ended up with Power on my road bike. Short nose isn't a feature for me, i really don't mind about it because i prefer not to move forward on saddle. Only Power saddle is ok for me- i can do 100km ride without single stop and my bottom feel fine. With other saddles a had various range of problems: from slightly discomfort to serious numbness for more than week after big ride. So, it just works for me.
I bought a prologo dimention NDR saddle at the start of this year, By far the mostcomfotable I have been on a bike. I did get a proper bike fitting and was setup on this saddle and did not take it by chance. Befofe on my Traditional saddle I was uncomfortatble and shifting around alot. I also had a bad geometry position. I think the key take away here is..... get a bike fit... they save you getting hurt or causing issues... and save you money when your not splurging £100+ on saddles :)
Recently switched from a Selle Italia to a Sanmarco Dynamic short nose on my Ribble GranFondo. My local bike fitter leant me a demo saddle fir a month to make sure it was comfortable. However it is a “waved” rather than a “flat” saddle which might be the reason I prefer it. My problem was I had been sliding forward/backward whereas with the waved saddle I feel more fixed and don’t slide around on the saddle as much. For background I am 66, 1,90m tall and 91Kg so definitely don’t have the flexibility and have my specific requirements
Fuck dude, this is a clear example of someone who knows A LOT about a subject share as much of that information in 7 minutes as possible. I can listen to that dude educate me all day.
Thoughts on a leather saddle such as Selle Anatomica X2 for road especially long distance riding? Can you please chime in, I’ve been having great results on road riding but only negative is when I get too aero because nose has steel fittings to tighten leather.
They say after a few days the uploader of the video shouldn't read the comments? All the hints of all the ways to make a bike more comfortable makes my head spin. Just want to enjoy a ride again, a hot night ride, a long hill, the endorphins, so I'll keep watching and moving around the steal bike until I know it's way better. I am the lab rat. Some things are OK on my main bike, it was fitted, I can ride it for a few hours without issues.
In 2015 I bought a Giant Propel Advanced 1 and the standard seat was fucking agony. I bought a Power. It was a massive improvement. It wasn't a couch but way better then the previous saddle with no pressure relief hole
I rode the Power for about a year, and can certainly validate the issue with the saddle being so wide you get push forward. Currently on the Power Arc, so far so good.
Watching all of these bike fit videos is incredibly inspiring, is there a video of James explaining how he got to where he is today? Does he have a background in physiotherapy?
Everyone who I've met who prefers really narrow saddles tends to have the saddle ratcheted way up high. There might be a correlation between "clipping the sides" and excessive saddle height.
I have used the Specialized Power for a few years following a bike fit. It is far easier to find your seating position.......because there aren't any other seating positions !!!! Really like this saddle, but love the upgraded Power ARC as a slightly better fit.
Sometimes I like to turn my bib cycling shorts inside out so I look like I have the arse of a baboon while I cycle.
I feel personally attacked that i'm a 'senior viewer' because I've seen Monty Python 😂
Hey, stop that. Us old guys are not supposed to take offense at trivial items.
I nearly spit out my beer at that one
He’s not the messiah he’s just a very naughty boy
That's only a scratch 😀
Dude, when we were kids we told our religion teacher that we want to see Life of Brian in a lesson and we actually did. We didn't understand the message of the movie, but our teacher did. I still remember her face watching the movie.
I found that a short nose saddle less secure during aggressive cornering. I like the support and control of the longer nose on the insides of my thighs as I lean through the corner.
I think I just need to book in for a bike fit with James... on the basis that, I’ve never had one!
ah mate give it a go, treat yourself you deserve it
Yup
@@Bikefitjames I am even considering it, only i live in the Netherlands so distance is bit of a stretch and even more in these covid times.
Had a fit, not with James, and long story short guy basically slammed my saddle forward as far as possible.. end of fit. Thankfully these videos exist and after watching them a million times I feel much better with my position!
This guy, he speaks sense and no nonsense. Thumbs up.
Would be interested to know what James thinks about saddle flex, rail material & how that impacts saddles, and what his view is of saddle profile (the hight of the saddle from the rails)
this is a great comment and i am glad Francis has seen it
Same. I just ordered a sq labs 612 active which has an interchangeable piece that changes the flex of the saddle. Probably unnecessary but will be a good experiment.
I could listen to James talk about bike fit for hours and hours. The man is an encyclopedia of fit knowledge.
James is the clean, British version of a Williamsburg hipster and I am here for it.
Most compelling moment of this is when is when he looks at your saddle, is struggling with his personal judgment on it and your expectations. Man, that moment is rife with meaning.
I've joined the noseless saddle group recently and so far very satisfied. I've tried the Pro Stealth for a couple of weeks and changed for a Prologo Dimension which is working really nice. Good to know the concept behind it.
I got a bike fit and ended up with a short-nosed Selle Italia. I have quite wide sit bones, so the saddle is pretty wide compared to what pros use. However, it's really comfortable for both road and MTB riding. I've sat on it for up to seven hours at a time and I've never been so comfortable on the bike! I don't know if the shortness is key - I suspect getting the right overall shape was more important - but I do like the fact that I can't really sit in the wrong position. This is something that's not mentioned in the video. With long saddles, people tend to move around and not necessarily sit in the correct place on the saddle. On a short nose, you can only sit in one place, and that's the correct place. This has been a great benefit to me. I don't accidentally sit in the wrong place for an hour and start to hurt.
Note: I'm a slower, all-day rider. My experience might be very different to that of a fast rider.
I had to jump a dangerous, deep, wide, open drain across a bike path a few weeks ago. On the gravel bike. The Shimano MTB pedals unclipped. Found myself in the air, with both feet free. When I landed, the only thing stopping me hitting the ground with both feet (at 40 kph), my legs being run over by the pedals, and being hospitalised or worse (an absolute certainty) was the point of the (normal) saddle, which I landed on with my tail bone, so hard that the saddle was displaced. Despite the pain, I stayed upright. When I looked at what had happened, I was pretty convinced I'd broken something, but relieved at the same time, because it could have been much, much worse....and later, about 3 weeks later actually, it turned out there was no break, only an horrendous, internal bruise. That part of the anatomy it turns out, is pretty robust, and the bottom-most verterbrae are all fused together from age 25-30, which I hadn't known before. Anyway, a short-nosed saddle, and I wouldn't be writing this....
Wouldn’t use one as a MTB rider either, but i think for a roadie it might be something to give it a shot?!
I’ve used the power saddle for a couple of years and never had any problems with it. Used it on both my road and MTB and it’s extremely comfortable... A bike fit from James would probably suggest otherwise🤣
The specialized power; one of the most used and preferred road saddles in the world is supposedly getting negative results haha. I have been using mine for a few years now, after trying out a bunch of different saddles. It is an amazing saddle.
I must thank you and James from other videos - slightly different topic - handlebar width - was suffereing from neck and shoulder pain on my road bike (assumed it was just an old whiplash injury which niggles me off the bike sometimes) but also ride a mountain bike with wide bars so never realy thought about it - had a go switching from a 440 to 400mm handlebar - perfect no pain :-) THANKYOU
That last point is probably the most important, everybody's different. Personally I found everything with a long nose, cutout or not, put too much pressure up front, especially when I'm low and aero.
I just started using a Bontrager verse. So far it's the most comfortable saddle I've owned.
Finally! It's nice to see someone echo my own thoughts. When I look down on my normal saddle I can SEE the ~2cms they have cut off, and think to myself how does removing a part of the saddle I am not in contact with improve anything! The industry is obsessed with short nose saddles, "well, its short therefore it MUST be comfortable"
Thanks guys great clip as always. Another reason for the use of a short nose saddle is if you have a problem with the standard size saddle hitting the back of legs or butt whilst climbing or sprinting for example I am 166cms and ride a Cervelo R5 48 with a slammed 130 stem. The short nose saddle gives me an extra 20mm which makes all the difference :)
I am 167cm.. and I thought i am the only one who has saddle nose to hamstring contact during sprinting
@@huntsolofighter4265 sorry I just saw your message. Cleats towards the back help too :)
Nice work guys. I have made the argument a few times on the interwebs when various people bring up "This is what the pro's do", that I could not care less what the Pro's do, how they ride, how they set up their bikes, and what equipment they use, because they have nothing to do with how I ride. Yet, people get really upset that I don't want to follow 'Pro' trends, FFS.....
Being a former swimmer and now doing triathlons (Still ride a road bike a lot though). I can speak to the short nosed saddle being a great option for those who have made other changes to their position already such as shortening cranks and getting correct handlebars and stem. I went and got a bike fit and then went back for a follow-up to ask about short nosed stuff and I ended up enjoying it much more. Moral of the story. Get a bike fit!
Completely agree a proper bike fit before addressing (perceived) saddle issues is a must. That said, I use a Pro Stealth and love it. Not to be “TMI” here, but I had a surgery a few years back requiring an incision in the perineum, and I I will tell you... The relief channel is now an absolute life saver. If only traditional saddles existed, I’d likely never be able to comfortably ride a bike again. Cheers.
Tried using a Pro Stealth, gravitated to the nose of the saddle, and got numbness. Went back to a 135 Selle Italia SLR and everything is great
Wow, perfect timing!! I bought a new bike yesterday, and I must loose some centimetres and the front, stem needs to come back by 5 cm, and raised up at least 4 cm "dodgy neck" And on a bus today I had a eureka moment, put the f..... saddle forward , I come home to find this film , James as always very interesting to listen to, but today especially interesting! Thanks!
Saddle fit nose James
helo
oooooooooooooo
Oooooooooooooo I say!!
Who asked you to stick yer beak in?
While I generally love these videos, I didn't really track what James was saying in this one. The video is about short nosed saddles, but he essentially refers to the downsides as either a) pushing it too far forwards or b) having the rear of the saddle too wide causing the rider to move forward (which doesn't have anything to do with the nose). So what about a rider that keeps the saddle appropriately far back and doesn't have rubbing issues causing them to move forward? It doesn't seem like the nose has any functional purpose...
You've opened my eyes on how my build differs from professionals and how it impacts oversteer I experience on my road bike vs balanced position I feel on MTB etc.. Thank you!
Brilliant video - my son has suffered sores recently - got a short nosed saddle to see if it worked .... from listening to this - a bike fit is the answer rather than scatter gun equipment swapping. On it. Cheers James / Francis.
I've tried the Fizik version and I've noticed that it is for very fit cyclists. What I mean by that is that as long as I am dropped really low, the saddle is absolutely perfect. I have a pretty aggressive position for an old recreational cyclist. So, as long and my arms are on the hoods and my elbows bent, or I am in the drops, the saddle is perfect. It is when I sit more upright, say with my arms locked on the tops, that the width is noticed and it pushes my forward. The saddle is defiantly designed for racing.
My experience: i had a long, narrow prologo saddle. Used ir for a year, no, issue. I wanted to get into triathlon, attached aerobars on my bike, made my position much more aerodynamic, I started to feel pressure on my crouch from the narrow saddle. Switched to bontrager short saddle, I realized what I thought was good before wasn't good enough. New saddle feels amazing.
I've tried noseless, and gone back to traditional. Found exactly that, hamstrings contacted wings of saddle, move forward and am then unstable, consistently across a few. Overall though, just found that whilst they may be comfortable initially, I always had extra weight on my hands from the lack of support from a "nose", no matter the tilt. As for that SLR Boost, yucky thigh rub! Happy on a Selle Italia Flite Flow.
He’s not the messiah he’s just a naughty boy 😂😂
obviously an older member of the posse ;-)
Yeah I'm that 50yr old you mention so often, luckily no desk job though 😉
With you all the way Paul, beer n bikes, because we are worth it.😂😂
@@jamesbicknell4706 Yep, I guess we can always look on the bright side of life!
@@williamsmothers8830 when you're feeling in the dumps, don't be silly chumps!
I'm riding a 2015 FELT AR, agressive aero frame, with a Specialized Power Expert saddle. Did a bikefit a few years ago. My background is/was heavy powertraining and in combination with the Power Expert saddle that translates into much weight/pressure on my hands (heavy upperbody). I can't shift my weight on the saddle due to the inclinded back.
This video convinced me to try it with a new flat saddle. Received it today, will test it tomorrow :)
I bought my Pro Carbon two years ago, & the larger channel wider, nose are way better for the sitbones. You can do more miles with less discomfort in the aero position. The only drawback I didn't realize is that the wider nose means less room for larger thighs. You'll inevitably get larger thighs by riding more any way lol. The other thing not to miss by upgrading to one of these saddles is the obvious weight savings, larger channel means less material used. So it's worth the upgrade, especially if you have smaller legs.
Prolly the best thing i've seen on YT ref bike saddles. Kudos.
James, you ARE the Messiah... of bike fit knowledge. Thanks for the insight and another great vid.
James is back!!
He is absolutely the messiah when it comes to this stuff!
But he is still a very naughty boy also...
I love these bike fit video just so I can learn and ask questions but at the end of the day I will always go see a good bike fitter than fiddle around myself with my fit but that is just me . thanks again Francis great content as usual and for just being so dam consistent, ur brilliant
thanks Peter!
I absolutely love my short-nosed saddle. If you have back issues this is very helpful.
Francis -- good to see you back in shop and catching up with James
It's always an education watching you and James. Always ask the questions that most us would like to ask..thank you..😀
thank you!
I have Power saddles on my bikes and I’ve just purchased a Power Arc which is pretty comfy, I regularly ride 100 milers at the weekend and do not have a problem, I could never get on with a conventional long nosed saddle, could be because I’m small and light however the Power saddles get my sit bones in the correct position, I even have one on my CX bike.
The biggest problem with the Specialized saddle in question is its outrageous price. I’ve had two, and have been comfy on both.
Another excellent video and love the Monty Python reference(s) from James. Plus a bike fit that is actually released on Tuesday!
I must be an odd ball. I have a power saddle on my thin tire (tyre) road bike a standard lengths on my gravel (Prologo) and MTB (ergon). I like them all. The only thing they have in common is a pressure relief channel. I will try to pay attention to the flare on the power but it was all good this weekend on a 60+ mile ride.
If you’re hell bent and determined to get a specialized power saddle because “everyone has it” please get the power arch version. As someone who was hell bent on getting one because “everyone had it” I ended up hating the flair and bugged me on rides the arch version is a compromise and feels better
I use the specialized short nose because, as a heavier rider with no ass, I don’t catch my shorts on the shorter nose. I love that saddle (on my gravel bike).
Good to see James and some more Bike Fit Tuesday vids. I started watching your videos a couple months ago, and James and your Bike Fit series really got me into the whole series. It's a rabbit hole of information, which has me second guessing every bike purchase I've ever made. Then again, I've been through 7 bikes since 2013. Started on a 58cm, which at 6'1" with my measures had my reach set way too far. Bike shop sold me a bike that was flat out too big. Since then I've dropped to a 56, but everything has been second hand used. Maybe when the kid hits kindergarten and we're not paying outrageous US daycare costs I'll treat myself to a bike fit and get a bike really dialed in.
After 4 different saddles 2 T shaped 1 V shaped and an ISM triathlon saddle... I never got comfortable, Bought recently a Pro Stealth and i like it. Don't want to change saddle again. I will go for a bike fit if any issues, especially genital numbness which is my biggest problem occur. Not changing saddles again. Is money and time consuming and with no positive results whatsoever...
By the way i chose this one 142 width to be exact, cause the one i managed to get better results was the V shaped one. Problem is it was 145 width and was hitting my legs. Also it had gel in it, which i don't want for my long distances. So i got a V shaped one with no gel and more narrow. And as flat as i could cause i have anterior pelvic tilt. Might not be the perfect saddle. But it might be good enough. Thanks for all your videos. They helped me A LOT! I will surely get a bike fit.
Great to see Bikefit Tuesday back and on a Tuesday to. Always informative
shit Francis you actually uploaded it on a Tuesday i’m so impressed
Finally went to get a bike fit. The fitter raised the saddle 4 cm, and put on a 130 mm / 6 degree stem pointing upward to get the reach somewhat correct. needless to say, my bike didn't fit quite right! However, I now have the proper measurements to get on the right bike. Thanks James for your expertise & Francis for doing this series - I've certainly been schooled!
My Fizik Vento Argo saddle has been the best saddle I've used. It's the only thing I've used that's stopped numbness. I've tried bike fits, two bikes, 6 other saddles including ISM. this one just fits my anatomy 🤷🏼♂️.
All that info for free. Fair play to James, superb in his field and he’s got chat too.
What I've learnt from all these bikefittuesday videos, Position is King! Sort your position out first before trying to "fix" issues with new components.
Hi James.
When i ride on the drops or lean down to get more aero, the tops of my thighs keep hitting my stomach (which is podgy) should i increase the number of spacers under my stem? I currently have about half the spacers under it.
I would be interested to hear also.
Record yourself and check how high your knees are at the 3 o clock position. If they're noticeably above horizontal your saddle may be too low and/or forward. If that works and then you struggle to reach the drops, raise the bars. It could also be a crank length issue but that's money... Or it could be the extra weight just being in the way, in which case it'll fix with time.
Having sit bones between 143 and 155, I went with the Specialized Power Arc, which actually has a gentler curve at the front that alleviates some of the issues he mentioned.
I’m also able to get right down on my bars which I had never been able to do on previous saddles since the Turbo saddle in the 1990’s
Good day, which width did you go by?
Very informative! I have a Prologo NDR, and one day I love it while the next it drives me nuts. I just can't fine tune it. In fact, I think I can say that about most saddles I've had. The NDR swoops up at the back to angle the hips forward, but it's at such a degree that it leaves you very limited length of flat to position the sitbones on. As as result I find myself going back and forth with almost daily adjustments (I know, it's an OCD thing), trying to find the swell that I've created by keeping the nose slightly up to prevent sliding too far forward. And with the back and forth comes the up and down adjustments as well. With this, I've become pretty well convinced over the years that there is no perfect bike saddle; some of us just have to learn to live with what we have.
Man...I just gave up on the Dimension. I really want to like it, and with the way it's shaped should work right with my fit, but I too just find myself constantly fidgeting with it. Never really get completely right on it. Surprisingly..I had a take off Prologo Nago sitting in a box, put it on and was absolutely wonderful lol
Great critique! I was having soft tissue problems and decided to try the Specialized version. I'm quite pleased with it so far. But whatever floats your boat I guess! Thanks for the vlog. Always educational!
'The evolution of the short nosed saddle' You are on to those guys in marketing!
Screw this, I just gonna preempt the next trend and just turn my saddle back to front!!
#BleedingEdge.
I love youtube comments because they give me so many crazy ideas. I may (or may not, if I don't bother or find the rails are too short to the back) try this out
Definitely a bleeding edge. Your edge will bleed.
think Graham Obree already did that....
@@super8hell depends on if the saddle can be moved back far enough and angled right once it's flipped... "instant noseless"?
I havnt yet bought a short nose saddle for my road bike but i am in the process of looking at one. But my experience with a short nose saddle comes from my beautiful Italian handmade Astute Mudlite VT drop nose saddle on my Downhill bike. The difference in feel & freedom of movement on the short nose seat on my downhill bike, to that of my long nose San Marco on my road bike is massive. To the point that if i could find another Astute Mudlite VT, (The Co sadly went bankrupt) with it's carbon rails & carbon/nylon shell, & it's leather cover, ortholite padding, & it's well placed cutout, i would totally get another & put it on my roadbike even though it's an enduro/downhill/saddle.. So my choices are the Prologo Dimension Space, or Ergon SR Comp. I mostly use my roadbike for commuting, but im a flat pedal rider as opposed to clipless, on my road bike as well. Not sure if that changes the ergonomics to suit a short nose saddle better or not. But my experience on my MTB is that i like it way better than the considerably long seat on my roadbike currently.
When James started explaining the weight distribution problem with a short nosed saddle on the average weekend cyclist I honestly started laughing as this was my overall experience when I tried it.
In the past few months I’ve been experimenting with saddles. I’ve gone from a “traditional” shape prologo kappa to a prologo dimension 143 and have also used a prologo dimension NDR.
I’m loving the change to a shorter saddle, strangely feels more stable. Next is to try the pro stealth and see what the fuss is about.
I’ve never really had saddle issues, and am not getting any from changing (touch wood)
I have both the Dimension NDR 143 and the Pro Stealth, the Dimension is cushier, and the nose is narrower, otherwise very similar.
@@leflate Pro Stealth for me. LOVE IT.
Put a Prologo Scratch M5 short saddle on my gravel bike. Extremely comfortable on rough roads. I can see some advantages in these shorts saddles but like all saddles it is a personal choice. BTW .. TDF winner was apparently riding a short saddle :)
Looking into purchasing a saddle, instead of what came with my new bike, and always love James's very detailed discussions around these topics; wish his business was closer for a bike fit 💯
I personally run a Prologo Kappa Evo STN on road and MTB and it seems to be the best saddle I've found so far. Plenty of padding in the right spots without feeling like big gel cruiser. To top it off it has a hidden relief cutout in the frame of the saddle so no wet underside riding in the rain.
I'm very very happy with my short nose saddle (ISM Adamo Road), but I keep it back, ie clamped at the front on the rails on a setback seatpost, so it basically the same as my regular road saddles, just no nose - that I was not using anyway. The advantage is the pressure relief, in fact doctors are even prescribing them to folks with issues down there. Just bought a coupleof Fizik Mistica's which are similar, but real TT saddles. So far so good.
Bike fit Tuesday's are back. 🚴♂️👍
I was only thinking yesterday that it’s been a long time since bike fit Tuesdays and James, good to be watching these again!
Bike fit Tuesday with a Jame’s type rant is a must.👍
Thumbnail reference is gold.
BFJ is mone!!! Great hair and Paul Smith shirt on point. Thx gents
Jepp! I've tested the specialized power saddle for 80 km on my s6 and ended up with wounds between the legs. My fav saddle is a budged from selle royal without a pressure releave cut/channel. No problems with it for rides over 200k.
James: Sorry for pointing you out Specialized....
Everybody Else: No Your not....
You'll notice that he never mentions F**** at all.
James changes his facial hair more often than I change my undies
Urrr.
I love hearing James talk about bike fit!
I moved to a power saddle. I actually left it in the same position as my normal saddle it replaced (measured from the back not the front). Other than the better sit bone support the main benefit for me was to stop me creeping forward on the saddle as there’s not really anywhere to creep.
Where the hell have you been James..... Good too see you back👍🏻
This is my favorite channel on you tube, and James, your experience and insight shine through and I feel so much more deeply educated regarding bike fit - so the best part of the best channel. I’d book a fit with you just for the experience of hanging out, seeing the shop, and hopefully confirming that my fit is spot on (well done!). Now, I do have a bone to pick here.... my experience with the power arc saddles to date is that they are somewhat limited when it comes to pushing them forward (and therefore beating the uci ruling). Even with a zero offset post I can only get to about 75mm setback at best (on a tarmac sl6), and I fear it will be even more challenging to get this far forward enough on my pending dogma based on my ideal setback. I think this is a great saddle for me in comfort and fit, and I’ve been riding the big s saddles for 14 years. Is there a possibility that the motivation here was to produce a better shape saddle rather than what you are suggesting? They didn’t simply lop off a few cms from the tip, this is reshaped substantially, and the rail position also reworked. Are you perhaps wrong on the motivation? I’d also add that I loved the toupe saddle, but the challenge from big s again is they have reduced options - hard to get a high end quality road saddle from them that isn’t short.... I’d love to hear your response, thanks again, Steve
I've got a Pro Stealth saddle on my Surly Straggler, best saddle I have ever used on a road bike, works great in fast position and also good for 200-300km rides
Very interesting. I tend to find a saddle and then buy a few so I know I have a long time before I have to start the process again. Currently on the second of my Aspide Narrows, two to go.
I tried a lot of saddles, including some exotic SMP's. I've tried Romin, Toupe and ended up with Power on my road bike. Short nose isn't a feature for me, i really don't mind about it because i prefer not to move forward on saddle. Only Power saddle is ok for me- i can do 100km ride without single stop and my bottom feel fine. With other saddles a had various range of problems: from slightly discomfort to serious numbness for more than week after big ride. So, it just works for me.
*Works great, comfortable too*
"For the more senior viewers" - cheers!
I bought a prologo dimention NDR saddle at the start of this year, By far the mostcomfotable I have been on a bike. I did get a proper bike fitting and was setup on this saddle and did not take it by chance.
Befofe on my Traditional saddle I was uncomfortatble and shifting around alot. I also had a bad geometry position.
I think the key take away here is..... get a bike fit... they save you getting hurt or causing issues... and save you money when your not splurging £100+ on saddles :)
Recently switched from a Selle Italia to a Sanmarco Dynamic short nose on my Ribble GranFondo. My local bike fitter leant me a demo saddle fir a month to make sure it was comfortable. However it is a “waved” rather than a “flat” saddle which might be the reason I prefer it. My problem was I had been sliding forward/backward whereas with the waved saddle I feel more fixed and don’t slide around on the saddle as much.
For background I am 66, 1,90m tall and 91Kg so definitely don’t have the flexibility and have my specific requirements
Fuck dude, this is a clear example of someone who knows A LOT about a subject share as much of that information in 7 minutes as possible. I can listen to that dude educate me all day.
James is FINALLY BACK!
Monty Python AND bike fitting?! I'm here for it! HAHAHAH Thank you Francis and James!!
James is looking better by the day.
Thoughts on a leather saddle such as Selle Anatomica X2 for road especially long distance riding? Can you please chime in, I’ve been having great results on road riding but only negative is when I get too aero because nose has steel fittings to tighten leather.
They say after a few days the uploader of the video shouldn't read the comments?
All the hints of all the ways to make a bike more comfortable makes my head spin. Just want to enjoy a ride again, a hot night ride, a long hill, the endorphins, so I'll keep watching and moving around the steal bike until I know it's way better. I am the lab rat.
Some things are OK on my main bike, it was fitted, I can ride it for a few hours without issues.
In 2015 I bought a Giant Propel Advanced 1 and the standard seat was fucking agony. I bought a Power. It was a massive improvement. It wasn't a couch but way better then the previous saddle with no pressure relief hole
I have the SLR Boost and find it works well for me. The Specialized Power not so much for the exact reason James points out - the wide wings.
He describes the exactl problem I had with the prologo dimension. Switched to SQ Labs 612 Active and haven't looked back.
I rode the Power for about a year, and can certainly validate the issue with the saddle being so wide you get push forward. Currently on the Power Arc, so far so good.
Watching all of these bike fit videos is incredibly inspiring, is there a video of James explaining how he got to where he is today? Does he have a background in physiotherapy?
Short nosed saddles! Do you remember the Sling advertised in the adverts of Bicycling magazine.
Everyone who I've met who prefers really narrow saddles tends to have the saddle ratcheted way up high. There might be a correlation between "clipping the sides" and excessive saddle height.
I wish I lived in London and could get a bikefit done with James 😩
Bike doctor!!!! Good to see him again! 😁 👍🏼👍🏼
I have used the Specialized Power for a few years following a bike fit. It is far easier to find your seating position.......because there aren't any other seating positions !!!! Really like this saddle, but love the upgraded Power ARC as a slightly better fit.
"He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy"