The reason I would never buy this tractor is who it is made by. I bought a steiner 450 in July of this year. At 37 hours, it caught on fire in my pasture (at the base of the engine). It took my local fire department 1 hour with two hoses to put it out. The response from steiner, doosan, bobcat was the fire burned too hot to determine how the fire started (so therefore, I couldn't prove it was their fault). Nearly burned my pasture and my woodlands. I was thankful I wasn't on a customers property. A company that tries to shirk responsibility to not honor their warranty will never get another dime from me.
Good info. I was interested in the Steiner. Now I'm skeptical about the machine as a whole. And I'm not a Bobcat fan. Older excavators were good on rental market, but now Takeuchi has been invading that market. Good for Takeuchi.
I had issues from the get go. My dealer was a John Deere dealer and the only dealer in my state. None of the mechanics were trained to work on the Steiner's. They had to force the mechanics to install the three point and additional hydraulics. I had just blown off the mower and cleaned the air filter thirty minutes before it caught fire. There wasn't much time to see where exactly the fire started as it went quick. I was lucky I was at the end of the row I was mowing. When I made my turn, I saw the grass I had just mowed was on fire 10 feet behind me. I parked the tractor on a dirt patch to go put out the grass fire and about 15 seconds later the whole tractor was engulfed. My dealer was pretty good about the situation, but said that Steiner determines what can be warrantied. One of the head guys at Steiner/Doosan had the nerve to tell me that they would get to it, but the next week was deer rifle season so it was going to take a while. I've never done a UA-cam video before, but I've taken a bunch of footage that I'm going to put together. I just want to get my story out to as many people as possible. I've never had this bad of an experience with any company that I've paid forty grand to. The real hero in this was my homeowner's insurance (State Farm). They covered everything and even paid the difference for me to purchase a Ventrac 4520 and roughcut. Just paid the dealer yesterday and waiting for them to get all of the options installed.
I want to add an addendum to my previous comment. The volunteer firefighters that showed up were the real heroes. While I am very grateful for the insurance making me better than whole, the men who showed up kept my farm from burning. I took care of them and am grateful to live in a town where people step up to help their neighbors.
it needs to have the Ventrac wheel setup at least as an option or be significantly cheaper to directly compete the ventrac is an awesome machine as you have demonstrated
I wonder if Bobcat will retain the Steiner attachment system that allows interchangeability of Ventrac attachments. Some of the Bobcat attachments could be very useful on Ventracs!
“I don’t think the S stands for bobcat”🤣🤣🤣🤣 Honestly, I think it looks cool. I like the modernized design to it, versus the sharp angles of the steiner or ventrac. It does look like the foot pegs are on the operator side versus the engine side, so they aren’t moving as you’re turning the machine.
Stick with a Ventrac, much better machine. A lot of people don’t know, but Steiner were manufactured in Orrville Ohio by the Steiner family. They sold the company and had to sign a non compete agreement for like 7 years. Over that time they were designing & improving over the Steiner. Their new company became Ventrac, manufactured in a different location but in Orrville Ohio. They are the innovators of this style of tractors. Ventrac all the way!!!!
Bobcat still does have Kioti make tractors, but recently came out with their own(just different color). They are identical except the color, Kioti being orange and Bobcat being white. Both are amazing tractors with higher outputs and lifting capacity than John Deere and the like
Ventrac and Steiner components match up with the older machines. On the new machines, most of the attachments will fit but require different belts. I am trying right now to see how my steiner attachments will fit to my ventrac. Ventrac has a conversion guide that states that the mower decks will work but you can't use down pressure to make the deck go below level. I don't know if that will work when cresting hills or not. There are some attachments that are not interchangeable between the newest versions. The ones that come to mind are the power rake, trencher, aerator, and loader with bucket. Mostly it is because of the lift functions having different ranges between the two machines.
Bobcat/Doosan purchased , BOB-CAT Mowers and the Steiner and Ryan brands of grounds maintenance equipment from Schiller Grounds Care, Inc Also i heard in interview, Bobcat is building factory in NA (Can't remember what state) to produce tractors.
As a former owner of 4 Steiner/Ventracs…..both brands are underpowered. Guessing this is a 25 horse diesel? I’ve owned from 16hp to 30hp. If you’re mowing on hills they lack power. Like to see something with 35-40hp diesel pushing the same attachments but I’m sure that’d be the need for a completely redesigned machine.
@@Djolnir I’ve actually heard the 32 hp kubota is the best option for this machine although I still don’t feel it’s enough power unless you want to go slow. Really slow. The machines weigh in at about 1500 lbs. plus add in a deck at 400 plus pounds (depending on size/model). When you’re pushing that weight up a hill and cutting taller grass the machines lack power. The advantages of this machine are that you can use many attachments but unfortunately many of them come at a price that is close to that of a dedicated machine.
Perhaps the levers are 4 way controls, similar to the set up that Ventrac has on their front loader attachment… one lever controls the lift and auxiliary (tilt) on the front, and the second controls the rear lift and auxiliary on the back… I think that could be a very big improvement over both Steiner and Ventrac, for some people. On top of that, a lot of people have wanted two pedals controlling the direction for a long time l. But I hope that they still keep making Steiner brand machines along side this. My opinion is the more diverse set ups, the better. Let it all come down to quality of machine and personal operator stand preferences. The more competition the better.
While that's fairly exciting, I'd still purchase a ventrac. Even though Toro bought them, they're still made in America and Toro is really good at innovation. I believe that's why the ventrac model continues to introduce new attachments. That said, I've rented a bobcat articulated loader and it was a great machine
@@zaineridling I know they purchased eXmark, however, I'm sure how innovative eXmark was. From the early 90s to the early 2000s, I only used eXmark and scag. I didn't see much innovation then. I was completely turned off of them by the dealer I used at the time so, maybe, they became more innovative after that time. It's interesting that Toro allows it's subsidiaries to run themselves. They've done it with eXmark and they're doing it most others as well. I think that it's the resources Toro has that allows all of them to be so innovative Then again, what do I know...
Yes, originally Schiller Ground Care (I think that was the full name) owned Bob-cat (green mowers), Ryan, and Steiner, and Doosan/Bobcat bought the whole kit and kaboodle.
@@CopperCreekCuts Doosan Corp is the Parent company of Doosan Bobcat which is the owner of Brands Bobcat, Ryan, Steiner, and Doosan Portable Power, Doosan Bobcat NA is based in West Fargo ND, the Compact tractors are built at the Statesville NC facility along with Portable Power products. That facility was expanded. Johnson Creek facility is the one they acquired when they bought Schiller Ground Care back in 2019 and that facility is still in operation
Exactly. What I really want is a small to midsize tractor with standard speed PTO and a 3 point hitch on both the front and rear. Let me mount something like a brush hog or a small forestry mulcher out in front of the machine so I don't have to look over my shoulder all day while I back into stuff.
@@CopperCreekCuts something that always bothered me.aboutnthe Ventrac. They offer an optional 3 point hitch. Why not include an optional hydraulic motor back there to hook up a PTO shaft?
Steiner was the brand that was the original (owned by the Steiner family). They sold the brand and several years later became Ventrac. Steiner has sold many times since then but I think Ventrac still remains family owned.
Could be, but with the tractors and mowers they always upgraded something. It looks like they did something with the controls at very least and wouldn't be surprised if they did something to increase performance.
White seems like it is the most impractical color for equipment that gets dirty, but for some reason I always liked Bobcat's white/orange/black color scheme.
The reason I would never buy this tractor is who it is made by. I bought a steiner 450 in July of this year. At 37 hours, it caught on fire in my pasture (at the base of the engine). It took my local fire department 1 hour with two hoses to put it out. The response from steiner, doosan, bobcat was the fire burned too hot to determine how the fire started (so therefore, I couldn't prove it was their fault). Nearly burned my pasture and my woodlands. I was thankful I wasn't on a customers property. A company that tries to shirk responsibility to not honor their warranty will never get another dime from me.
Good info. I was interested in the Steiner. Now I'm skeptical about the machine as a whole.
And I'm not a Bobcat fan. Older excavators were good on rental market, but now Takeuchi has been invading that market. Good for Takeuchi.
That's pretty terrible, I am sorry to hear that. Glad it didn't combust with you on it. Any ideas what might have happened?
@@andrewbrenneman9592 yeah takeuchi isnt to bad because made in japan sames the kubota are plus they both uses reliable kubota diesel engines
I had issues from the get go. My dealer was a John Deere dealer and the only dealer in my state. None of the mechanics were trained to work on the Steiner's. They had to force the mechanics to install the three point and additional hydraulics. I had just blown off the mower and cleaned the air filter thirty minutes before it caught fire. There wasn't much time to see where exactly the fire started as it went quick. I was lucky I was at the end of the row I was mowing. When I made my turn, I saw the grass I had just mowed was on fire 10 feet behind me. I parked the tractor on a dirt patch to go put out the grass fire and about 15 seconds later the whole tractor was engulfed. My dealer was pretty good about the situation, but said that Steiner determines what can be warrantied. One of the head guys at Steiner/Doosan had the nerve to tell me that they would get to it, but the next week was deer rifle season so it was going to take a while. I've never done a UA-cam video before, but I've taken a bunch of footage that I'm going to put together. I just want to get my story out to as many people as possible. I've never had this bad of an experience with any company that I've paid forty grand to. The real hero in this was my homeowner's insurance (State Farm). They covered everything and even paid the difference for me to purchase a Ventrac 4520 and roughcut. Just paid the dealer yesterday and waiting for them to get all of the options installed.
I want to add an addendum to my previous comment. The volunteer firefighters that showed up were the real heroes. While I am very grateful for the insurance making me better than whole, the men who showed up kept my farm from burning. I took care of them and am grateful to live in a town where people step up to help their neighbors.
Sorry I'll stick with ventrac. I had some bad experiences with my bobcat dealer. I had great experiences with my ventrac dealer.
What if the new machine is much cheaper? (I don't know if it will be, just playing 'what if')
it needs to have the Ventrac wheel setup at least as an option or be significantly cheaper to directly compete the ventrac is an awesome machine as you have demonstrated
Good points. I am very curious where they will try to compete on price.
What do you mean by wheel setup? The option of dual wheels?
@@scottburgle2169 Yes
@@Scott924m you can get dual wheels for
It.
we got 2 steiners and 1 ventrac at work. the ventrac is hands down better its not even close.
I wonder if Bobcat will retain the Steiner attachment system that allows interchangeability of Ventrac attachments. Some of the Bobcat attachments could be very useful on Ventracs!
I hadn't thought of that but that would be pretty awesome!
I’ll stick with Ventrac
“I don’t think the S stands for bobcat”🤣🤣🤣🤣
Honestly, I think it looks cool. I like the modernized design to it, versus the sharp angles of the steiner or ventrac.
It does look like the foot pegs are on the operator side versus the engine side, so they aren’t moving as you’re turning the machine.
Hopefully they are using Steiner hitch arms; interchangeable to Ventrac. At least maybe they won't have over inflated prices like Ventrac does.
Stick with a Ventrac, much better machine. A lot of people don’t know, but Steiner were manufactured in Orrville Ohio by the Steiner family. They sold the company and had to sign a non compete agreement for like 7 years. Over that time they were designing & improving over the Steiner. Their new company became Ventrac, manufactured in a different location but in Orrville Ohio. They are the innovators of this style of tractors. Ventrac all the way!!!!
Just buy ventrac and be done. Just buy 4520z, what a beast! Still run my 4200 over 4000 hrs.
Bobcat still does have Kioti make tractors, but recently came out with their own(just different color). They are identical except the color, Kioti being orange and Bobcat being white. Both are amazing tractors with higher outputs and lifting capacity than John Deere and the like
Good feedback, thank you!
Hope if they make attachments they can hook up to ventrac
Good point! If they use Steiner's system maybe they will.
accully ventrac ans stenier is same accully with same front mounts so you can use ven trac and steiners attachents on both
Ventrac and Steiner components match up with the older machines. On the new machines, most of the attachments will fit but require different belts. I am trying right now to see how my steiner attachments will fit to my ventrac. Ventrac has a conversion guide that states that the mower decks will work but you can't use down pressure to make the deck go below level. I don't know if that will work when cresting hills or not. There are some attachments that are not interchangeable between the newest versions. The ones that come to mind are the power rake, trencher, aerator, and loader with bucket. Mostly it is because of the lift functions having different ranges between the two machines.
New version of Ventrac. Cheap knockoff.
Can you get a 3 point hitch in the rear on bobcat tractor ?
No clue for sure, but I would be willing to bet yes
@@CopperCreekCuts have a receiver hiding just under the counterweights on these
It's wild that it used to be everyone had a Bobcat or a John Deere or a Caterpillar. Now its a wide range of choice, always a good thing.
So many different choices nowadays!
Bobcat/Doosan purchased , BOB-CAT Mowers and the Steiner and Ryan brands of grounds maintenance equipment from Schiller Grounds Care, Inc
Also i heard in interview, Bobcat is building factory in NA (Can't remember what state) to produce tractors.
I think that was the factory they wanted up and running so they could take back production from Kioti.
As a former owner of 4 Steiner/Ventracs…..both brands are underpowered. Guessing this is a 25 horse diesel? I’ve owned from 16hp to 30hp. If you’re mowing on hills they lack power.
Like to see something with 35-40hp diesel pushing the same attachments but I’m sure that’d be the need for a completely redesigned machine.
32.5 HP Gasoline, not sure if they have the diesel model
@@Djolnir I’ve actually heard the 32 hp kubota is the best option for this machine although I still don’t feel it’s enough power unless you want to go slow. Really slow.
The machines weigh in at about 1500 lbs. plus add in a deck at 400 plus pounds (depending on size/model).
When you’re pushing that weight up a hill and cutting taller grass the machines lack power.
The advantages of this machine are that you can use many attachments but unfortunately many of them come at a price that is close to that of a dedicated machine.
Agreed after the diahastsu turbo. Gotta go kubota gas and only ventrac 4520
Perhaps the levers are 4 way controls, similar to the set up that Ventrac has on their front loader attachment… one lever controls the lift and auxiliary (tilt) on the front, and the second controls the rear lift and auxiliary on the back… I think that could be a very big improvement over both Steiner and Ventrac, for some people. On top of that, a lot of people have wanted two pedals controlling the direction for a long time l. But I hope that they still keep making Steiner brand machines along side this. My opinion is the more diverse set ups, the better. Let it all come down to quality of machine and personal operator stand preferences. The more competition the better.
Good points and thoughts, thanks for sharing!
@@CopperCreekCuts bob cat at2025 with thepowerful 25hp kubota diesel
While that's fairly exciting, I'd still purchase a ventrac. Even though Toro bought them, they're still made in America and Toro is really good at innovation. I believe that's why the ventrac model continues to introduce new attachments.
That said, I've rented a bobcat articulated loader and it was a great machine
I think it is a smart move on their part. Any of the issues I would have buying from Steiner would be alleviated with a Bobcat product.
@@CopperCreekCuts agreed
And Toro gained much of its innovation from ExMark, which it purchased a few years ago.
@@zaineridling I know they purchased eXmark, however, I'm sure how innovative eXmark was. From the early 90s to the early 2000s, I only used eXmark and scag. I didn't see much innovation then. I was completely turned off of them by the dealer I used at the time so, maybe, they became more innovative after that time. It's interesting that Toro allows it's subsidiaries to run themselves. They've done it with eXmark and they're doing it most others as well. I think that it's the resources Toro has that allows all of them to be so innovative
Then again, what do I know...
Hope different attachments are available
Yeah, with a machine like this you really need a good attachment selection or the machine is useless.
So Doosan owns Bobcat, Steiner and Ryan Turf?
Yes, originally Schiller Ground Care (I think that was the full name) owned Bob-cat (green mowers), Ryan, and Steiner, and Doosan/Bobcat bought the whole kit and kaboodle.
@@CopperCreekCuts Doosan Corp is the Parent company of Doosan Bobcat which is the owner of Brands Bobcat, Ryan, Steiner, and Doosan Portable Power, Doosan Bobcat NA is based in West Fargo ND, the Compact tractors are built at the Statesville NC facility along with Portable Power products. That facility was expanded. Johnson Creek facility is the one they acquired when they bought Schiller Ground Care back in 2019 and that facility is still in operation
I know that Kioti makes the tractors for BC.
If they give the option of a rear pto it would be a great machine
Exactly. What I really want is a small to midsize tractor with standard speed PTO and a 3 point hitch on both the front and rear. Let me mount something like a brush hog or a small forestry mulcher out in front of the machine so I don't have to look over my shoulder all day while I back into stuff.
@@michaelcowling9928 yip it should have the option of other makers attachments with a pto other than that there over priced ride on mowers
Not sure if the footprint could accommodate that but if they found a way that would be a true game changer.
@@CopperCreekCuts something that always bothered me.aboutnthe Ventrac. They offer an optional 3 point hitch. Why not include an optional hydraulic motor back there to hook up a PTO shaft?
Were are they going to be builded at
A local ad on Fox during the World Series has brought me here...they are being advertised.
Huh, never heard of Steiner until this video. Live and learn.
My whole life is thinking I know things and then realizing I know nothing :D
Steiner was the brand that was the original (owned by the Steiner family). They sold the brand and several years later became Ventrac.
Steiner has sold many times since then but I think Ventrac still remains family owned.
It’s just a Steiner repainted
Could be, but with the tractors and mowers they always upgraded something. It looks like they did something with the controls at very least and wouldn't be surprised if they did something to increase performance.
Its a rebranded steiner 450
I hope it's going to be builded in North Dakota
I will try to find out!
@@CopperCreekCuts thank you I'm from North Dakota
Its a bobcat version of the ventrac
I do like the color scheme though :D
Mower deck is on Bobcat mower designed by Bobcat before they were bought out by Bobcat. That’s not a Steiner mower deck
Good eyes, thanks for sharing!
Still waiting...
I hope it's going to be afortortable.
Affordable*
That is one of the big questions! I can see a company as big as Bobcat able to drive down production costs, but will that pass that on to the MSRP?
Bobcat has a parent company?!?!
Keep us posted.......interesting.......
Will do!
May the 2025 mean something?
Pasquale tractor makes a similar type of machine
Too cool, I will check them out!
@@CopperCreekCuts They are still available. You can see them online.
That is purty!
White seems like it is the most impractical color for equipment that gets dirty, but for some reason I always liked Bobcat's white/orange/black color scheme.
I'm holding out for the Bobcat EV lawn tractor. Maybe Bobcat can team up with Dewalt on that project.
It would be one hot product! :D