Fan shot footage ALWAYS reveals the REALITY... that we're living in an ILLUSION!
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Tonight we're taking a look at Robert Downey Jr. performing 'Driven to Tears' with Sting!
Original Video - • Driven to Tears - Robe...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
0:55 Performance
2:46 Analysis Start (Pitch Correction)
4:47 Robert's Voice
8:33 What's It All About?
10:07 Guitar!
11:17 Open String Riff Intro
13:39 Guitar Solo
15:56 Note Choices
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The beauty of live performances are the unexpected variations and improvisations that happen. It’s a shame that someone decides arbitrarily that it has no value and destroys the performance.
Well said and wont go so far as to say it destroys the performance, but it removes some of the soul. Sad thing is, unless there were to be MASSIVE outrage from a huge number of music fans to put an end to this, it will never go away. It does not take long at all for a new "standard" to take hold and we are past that point already. There will be genre's that will reject it, opera for example, but the rest can only be called out by the fans of a particular group or artist to stop or avoid using it.
I love Mark Knopfler for the little tweaks he makes to the lyrics of a song he’s sung a million times
That's what I go to gigs for. When they're "off script' the music takes on a different feel, much more edgy and alive. 👍🏼
@@paulhutchins6019 I got to see John Mayall perform one night when they’d forgotten to program his keyboards for the show. He improvised with one hand while using the other to load the presets and still sang perfectly.
@@chrissmith7669 I saw him at St Alban's arena and I bought a cd off him at his merch stand as he was manning it himself! Great gig.
As a singer, a fan and someone who loves the truth in everything, I thank you wholeheartedly for this content. Cheers from California.
_everything?_
@@NoName-t7e Yup. Everything. Philippians 4:8-"whatever is true".
It's like a habitual lier lying when there's nothing to lie about.
Pitch correcting IS throttling! It throttles human energy and emotion.
Nicely put.
I agree 100 percent...
Hey Phil, being a live sound tech and bass player for 40+ years I can confidently tell you that most people who aren't musicians don't hear the difference between a live vocal and a pitch corrected vocal. I didn't have any clue it was as widespread as you've pointed out. Going back and pitch correcting older songs is sacrilege, shame on the music industry.
They might not notice it consciously, but I think they do unconsciously. I always try to look at the bright side of life, but most people who are older think life today needs a lot of work, and many, many people under 30 are fairly depressed, negative, focusing on things they shouldn't (hentai), and so on. Of course not all and I don't think the majority, but it wasn't like this with younger people until about the 2010's. Music is very powerful, and can do many, many things to a person, positive and negative.
Not being able to pinpoint the nature of the difference is one thing, not being able to sense that something is wrong is quite another thing. I don't know that it's pitch corrected, but I do know that it doesn't sound like the voice of a human being who is feeling the emotion of the song.
Sure is !
I think "Driven to Tears" is one of those songs that can sound even better when the singing isn't too precise, simply because the emotion that can be expressed by not being in "perfect" pitch communicates the gravity of the lyrics to the full.
by coincidence cut on radio waa on today
To me, pitch correction is the equivalent to “faking it” - or lip syncing. It has the same effect of fooling an audience into thinking they’re hearing the real thing. I wish it never existed, because I fear it will never go away.
I agree!
I agree 100 percent...
I don't like pitch correction! It really does ruin the sound of great singers' voices! If the music industry thinks this makes singing perfect, there's something wrong with their ears! Thank you, Fil, for another awesome analysis! I hope you enjoy the game tonight and that your team wins! Rock!
You can thank stupid shows like The Voice for this happening. People were applauding perfection in singing, and other people's hits at that, instead of finding new creative talent. It's the audiences that are now unsophisticated and unimaginative and easily distracted. They clap for perfection but how often do you see any of the winners actually have great careers? Not very often, because they either don't have enough identity or identifiable voices, and the audience is on to the next "perfect" singer.
I agree Tammy...
It doesn't make voices perfect.
It makes them easier to sell.
100% agree
The Matrix was a documentary.
What's the determinant of The Matrix?
Direct me to my body, please.
Or leaked playbook
He sounds great on the actual footage - I can hear slight differences, but it's still great. So why why why?
As a vocalist, i know I'm not always perfect. Someone pitch correcting my vocals would piss me off.
Like somebody said above, not being perfect is perfect. It makes the vocals come alive. So unless you are purposely making dead music, you want imperfections.
Agreed. I'd rather hit a few bum notes than rely on pitch correction.
Same thing with drummers and beat corrections. Ruins the natural feel and swing of the music making it sound empty and sterile. Would be frustrating and insulting.
Thanks Fil for showing us the differences between the actual vocals of this performance vs. pitch corrected vocals. Great analysis as always 😊🎸🎵
Singing, where imperfection = perfection.
This. Sometimes the best singing is the singing that is wrong but beautiful at the same time. Imperfection in singing when done well is a sonically beautiful thing. When it's perfected by technology it becomes artificial and devoid of any quality whatsoever.
I was listening to "Michelle" by The Beatles, driving in to work this morning. And I've noticed this before, what I'm about to say, (it's good - nothing bad about The Beatles at all)... that on the final "And I will say the only words I know that you'll understand...." the tempo slows ever SOOO slightlyyyy..... just a tiny bit, but enough to be perceptible. And we all know that Ringo is a top-notch drummer and has been called a human metronome. So this intrigued me for awhile, and then one day, and now I don't remember where, but it was about a year ago, I read a quote or interview excerpt where Paul specifically mentioned that part of the song, how they did it on-purpose, for the effect/FEEL of it. And when I listen to other records, I occasionally notice a slight change of tempo, very slight, then gets back on the original tempo. My point is, that musicians do this on-purpose, either consciously or subconsciously, for the groove/feel of the song, the ebb and flow of it. If every note was pitch-"corrected" to be right on the line, if every song was absolutely spot-on the metronome tick through the whole thing, it would sound a bit sterile, it would lose this soul-feel that helps it be warm and human.
Weren’t they known for messing with the tapes? Speeding up and slowing down, and double tracking harmonies? They’ve never been my 1st-100th choice to play (maybe somewhere in the 300s), but iirc, they were pioneers of messing with the sound.
You just described what music is today!
I just love your professionalism and honesty on your videos. It’s why I’m subscribed. You’re a bright guy, blessed with talent and grace…yes, grace ♥️
Thanks for the kind words!
I agree ❤❤❤
The number of producers/engineers who refer to having "a melodyne guy" says that all the people doing the pitch-correction are effectively factory workers (and regarded as such - the whole task is & is seen as a chore) - it's also likely that whilst they may have musicianship, they may not all be singers & not understand how a voice actually works. The state of chart music at the moment seems to demonstrate this.
Well put. ❤
Some people also understand how the voice works but prefer the sound of pitch correction. The idea that things you don't like must be errors created by ignorance is just silly.
@@christofthedead If you like the sound of pitch correction you're loosing your humanity.
@@christofthedead It's done badly more often than not - and the end result doesn't sound natural/human. . A lot of the time the note transitions sound forced/artificial & completely ruin the illusion. The quest for "perfection" is not just maths, my friend.
Fil, thank you for this analysis video! I swear pitch correction is going to destroy all of the music we know and love! Hopefully, one day, someone who is SUPER SPECIAL will do their best to end this assult on music! I hope you enjoy the euros this evening! 💜💜
First we had quantized beats that made everything too perfect and soulless and now we have quantized pitch. Everything is overproduced now.
Like most digital stuff….because we can, not because we need to….” alexa, flush the toilet.”
Fascinating channel gets forensically Fascinating. Excellent work.
Hi Fil,
I love this collaboration between Sting and RDJ. They sound great together and Robert does a really good job on the lead vocal. Glad we were able to get the real live performance to compare it to… give me the real vocal all day every day! Another thing to mention that AT/PC take away is the real feel of the singer for that song at that particular moment. As a singer you are never going to sing a song the same way twice. And this could be dependent on many factors: from how the singer’s day went to they are tired of singing the song. Singing is a driving emotion and emotions are always changing. Great job revisiting this one! Nice to hear it without it being manipulated. You Are The Best! Debbie☮️
I was doing some research on when pitch correction started but recently found this about : Eventide, a well-known manufacturer of effects units, originally made its mark with the Harmonizer H910, the world’s first digital effects unit. Introduced in 1975, the H910 was an early type of pitch correction device. But it was very far from something like the Auto-Tune plug-in. The H910 allowed users to make modest pitch corrections, though digital artifacts emerged when the original pitch was too radically altered. Thus, by today’s standards, its pitch corrections capabilities were extremely limited.
It was mostly used as an effect in the studio to get a certain sound instead of a crutch.
It's not pitch *correction* it's pitch *meddling*
I have said before that this technology just kills the music stone dead. The whole point of music is it is supposed to have soul and humanity as its core - take that away and you have fancy computerised beeping.
Beep bop boop...
Might as well have AI create music.
Yep, makes it sound like a computer.
Ruins it.
OOH The link I sent! Probably someone else (or many someone elses) did too. :) Thank you so much for showing this.
Watched & loved! So interesting. RDJ's natural voice is very strong--not perfect, but that's not what art/expression is about. He's definitely doing a semi-Sting impression (maybe just unconsciously that's how he feels the song works best), as I've heard him sing a classic jazz number and he used much more fluid, vibrato-y R&B sound.
Good analysis, as usual.
You know what sucks? When an artist sings live and then they broadcast an unnecessarily edited version and everyone accuses the singer of lip syncing lol
It's like the 'loudness war', the belief that your recording won't punch through or hold its own against others unless it's been pitch corrected and in many cases quantised and/or comped, dropped in, polished, scrubbed etc.
The difference between the studio album and the live concert back in the day did disappoint on occasion but at least we knew it was to be expected as human. Most of us did anyway - I remember some that didn't.
I don’t remember being disappointed by most of the concerts I attended in the seventies, eighties and nineties, except for a few really bad stadium venues, and the times when my favorite band, scheduled to open, didn’t show.
@@SuziQ.Gun’s n Roses?
@@SuziQ.Gun’s n Roses?
@@_vixen_4504 ,
Alice In Chains, but one of the times that they didn’t show up was for the GnR/Metallica show at the Rose Bowl. Axl behaved at that show.
Thanks for this Fil--enjoy the Euros tonight.
Go on Fil ! Preach !!!!!
Pitch correction sounds artificial. Fake. I hate it. I own nothing of pitch correction or never listen to it entirely.
Another great educational music experience by one of the best analysts on You Tube. I dislike the direction the music industry has gone. Where do you think it will stop, Fil? Are we doomed to pitch correction forever going forward? 🤔
AI will change the voice completely so that someone who can't carry a tune at all, even with pitch correction, will sound great. Then it will all be about looks and personality and who you know. Talent will be a thing of the past.
Pitch correction is just the “easy button” version of post-production shenanigans that have been going on since at least the 1970s if not earlier. Back then with less technology they’d just take the “imperfect” live recordings back to the studio and “correct” “mistakes” by overdubbing new parts. Then package it up and release the “live” album for the public to buy.
People can argue the difference being that it was technically still the singer’s voice even if it took them 50 takes in the studio to get there, whereas pitch correction creates a vocal that was never actually performed the way we hear it. But I think the spirit of both is essentially the same.
Downey is a very good singer! As a 70 year old music lover whom had the fortune of seeing/hearing the GREATS, it's saddening to me how processed music has become as a whole. Yeah I know, ya old fart... 🤓
You're correct. Grrezers rule and I'm proud to be in the club!😂
But you're right
The desire for perfection is corrosive to the performance
These are great videos Fil, I had no idea pitch correction was this rampant.
The whole planet I resorting to fakeness. A true shame. Thanks FIL for your channel.
Any true musician knows that it’s a crime to compare live vs studio and expect perfection from the live. The greatest thing about live is that mistakes or background noise makes it perfect.
Thank you! Fascinating.
I saw Elvis Costello a few months ago and part of what made it special was just how much he played with the studio version of many songs. Watching the Detectives had a completely different vibe to it.
He's brilliant.
This is exactly what I go to live concerts to see - I don't want the music to be 'perfect' or the same as the record, I want to see artistic expression and new interpretations of the music 😊
I don't really understand half of what Fil talks about, but it doesn't stop me from watching his videos from start to finish. 😂
I’m an old prog rock guy. My all time favorite band is Yes. I can hear little ‘misses’, and inflections Jon Anderson’s vocals, but I can’t even imagine hearing him sing without these. I haven’t isolated any of his stuff, but I imagine he’s very accurate.
Stop messing with people’s vocals. It’s what makes them, well, them.
With Sting I'm not surprised. But for some reason I would have expected more from RDJ. He has always seemed serious about his art.
Great update as always Fil
It’s going to be up to singers to lay down the law. That they won’t work with production companies that pitch corrects
them.
Unfortunately far too many untalented 'singers' utterly depend on it.
@@secondchance6603indeed, the whole genre of hip hop is built on people not being able to sing and instead using auto tune.
Can an artist put in a contract that no pitch correction can be used on their releases?
Yes.
Even a decade ago when i was in a salsa band we sold it as "hand-made music" to combat the way people are increasingly immersed in "perfected" homogenised sounds
Pitch correction is destroying music. Worst thing to happen to music in my lifetime.
I appreciate your analysis and the honesty of how you explain this. I prefer live performances, even if they might be a semi-tone off. It sounds good to me and I prefer real voices versus pitch corrected voices...We didn't have that tech when I played at live venues...except for Reverb...We did just fine...
I'm a member of a shanty crew and for the CD we recorded a couple of months ago we sang live in the studio. We needed a couple of takes on most numbers but didn't want any pitch correction. With my ear I can detect areas which weren't as "tuned" as I'd wish but the overall effect was that it sounded like us. Had time not been an issue, more takes might have resulted in better pitch accuracy but probably less immediacy.
Pitch correction can be useful, but I think circumstances should dictate when it can be an aid. For example, we have one guy who can create good song ideas, has a great voice but not the musical knowledge. He sends me a vocal track - recorded on his phone - and I will figure out the accompaniment. Sometimes he will have a tendency to drift in pitch as he progresses. In one case, I introduced a key change part way through to accommodate this. More recently, the vocal didn't lend itself to this. I put the track into a DAW and introduced a compensating linear pitch correction to keep him in a constant key. This version was better to allow me to experiment, composing an accompaniment. A really useful tool.
For public consumption? Not for us.
There should be a warning label on such awful electronic manipulation. Thank you Fil.
"tears" can definitely have 2 syllables in the North East of England :)
Thank you for the informative analysis. 🤘🎵👍
Thank you, enjoyed.
man, you are bad ass. I have always loved your videos but when I saw you live, it was awesome
Thanks!
Rather cool! Thanks Fil!
Thanks ..Fil.💎🎸 m
You are essential in the evening..💌🎖️
I think this, in an old fashioned way, this was done with The Last Waltz. The audio on the vinyl release or maybe bootleg, was different than the concert film. So I think they put studio tracks of audio over the filmed event, and that is what we saw on the theatrical release. I think with some special re-release video/audio box sets, they have included additional tracks from the live event.
Oh,The Last Waltz was my favorite film. "The Band " is amazing. ❤
Keep music live has a whole new meaning these days it seems
RDJ sang quite a lot when he was on Season 4 of Ally McBeal (2000-2001), one of the episodes was with Sting as a guest on the show. Can't imagine any of his singing was tweaked, but this shameful display makes me wonder. He's got a great voice. It doesn't need to be tampered with.
I remember that episode. He's trying to gain Ally's affection, so at a party, he begins to sing "Every Breath You Take". Later in the song, Sting comes out to sing with him!
@@Teacherman1955 Season 4 was the best because of RDJ. Pity he was in the throes of substance and they had to write him off the show.
Not are you educating all of us who don't understand why a song sounds so different at times. And your very charming and love your accent. It reminds me of home a long time ago.
The algorithm delivered a winner to my feed! New Subscriber 🎉🎉
This was great, Fil! I love that you always follow up with videos when you can. Robert sounds great. I would have loved to have seen this in person! This reminds me of being in sight singing class as a voice major in college. It was 1985-86 and we had all watched Sting perform on some awards the night before. We asked our teacher what she thought of Sting’s voice. She had never heard of him. 🙄 So, we brought in recordings and she said he was horrible and couldn’t sing at all, had no technique, blah, blah. She had perfect technique, but no one liked the sound of her voice! That’s when I switched my major to music business. I figured as a singer, I needed to know the business side of things so I wouldn’t get screwed over.
I’m always performing live. I have different band members around the US & international touring. The record is just that where I hire studio musicians who are superb. The record is its own thing mixed & mastered to the highest quality. It surpasses other recordings in the same genre by leaps and bounds. I get airplay all the time on SiriusXM & radio around the world. My live performance is driven to achieve the record but it’s difficult to achieve that level. The audience doesn’t know but they are listening for the clues and follow along and love it either way!
Obsession with perfection...
Love that this continues fleshing out this case study. Love the comparison between live and modified for release( butchered)
Shades of "Clockwork Orange"
Robert Downey, Jr. and his gang broke into the backstage dressing room to rape Sting?
I just think it's so awesome that Robert Downey Jr. is singing with Sting. That's the coolest thing I've seen this year
He's got a good voice that Downey Jr fella😂
I've got to say, RDJ is pretty accurate live.
Honestly this should be illegal. Public releases of live footage are advertisement for future live shows. Pitch correcting it is false advertising of what fans can expect to hear at the next show.
The whole purpose of art is to reflect truth. If there is no truth in it, it is not art. It's decoration.
Great shirt!
Thanks!
You mean I do not have to have those painful lessons with the teacher where I hit a scale note but not the right one for the song. I can just fix it later.
Since discovering you I’ve found out 99% of online artists I discover online that I like the sound of all auto tune themselves. It’s sad and probably why they have no live videos of themselves
Ace man.
Too bad it's too late for me to be a professional singer since I'm 70. Pitch correction could fix me right up.
There are so many officially released live versions of Ghost songs. Tobias messes up. And it stays in. There's an infamous one where he flubs completely, but they released it as is. Because that's live, babies!
Plus at long last, a teeny-weeny analysis of Sting and his vocals by my favorite music YTer, woohoo! I think about 1 minute's worth but still, I'll take what I can get, lol. I was worried maybe the reason was that Sting's not to your taste. (Even so, I'm still fascinated to hear an examination of his vocals.) Thank you, Fil! Love you! ROCK!
Fil has gone way outside his wheelhouse in some of his analysis videos. Every one is by request. I think some early Police could be fun, like “Walking on the Moon” or “So Lonely”. “Roxanne” might be too popular.
@@SuziQ. Ooh wouldn't it be intriguing to get his take on the changes over time from earliest high-tenor-punky Sting to mid-era-cool every-genre-but-the-kitchen-sink Sting to 2010s-current smoky, reflective Jacques Brel Sting? His vocal range has lowered but there's some nice mellow richness, too. Possibly production-aided? Even if so, his interpretation & musicality seems strong as ever.
The industry (not only the music industry) seems addicted to fakeing and manipulating and destroying EVERYTHING, even if it is no improvement, not required, not aksed for. They poison every well. They put so much effort into turning everything into something unnatural and destructive.
Thank you for showing us the toxic side of music industry: it helps us to find our ways back to authentic and original music.
I am no longer angry towards myself for being something like an eternal beginner on my instruments: at least the sounds I produce are not fake and not manipulated: on my rather simple level I at least make "Honest Music"
I feel like there's a contextual adjustment we should all be making... It's not, "That's what a live performance is all about", so much as "That's what a _real_ performance is all about".
Big Stars like these two need to start using their influence and protest against what's being done to their art with this awful-sounding AutoTune BS!
How could this even become an actual industry standard?? Who are the people making that decision?
This title and video are very timely.
Remember the commotion over Milli Vanilli? Older folks will remember the outrage when they learned they had been fooled.
Doing the lord's work. It's such a shame. I prefer authentic vocals even with imperfections, even quite noticeable imperfections, as long as the singer is basically on pitch. It truly sounds more pleasing to the ear because of the human connection.
Fil, your t-shirt is the TRUTH!
At around 8:39 and on, the flat bend sounds like usual thing for Sting in the 80's jazzy cheerful songs. Maybe Robert is doing this on purpose, showing appreciation on Sting's voice and style.
My points: there's no right or wrong and I know it's hard to put in words the purpose of the video (the "industry standard" post edits) as a whole, every second, as going through detailed analysis.
Thank you!
Please do more videos like this! Show people how they are being used!
I would love to see an analysis of the Eurovision final. My theory is that the song contest is being invaded by loads of backing audio and even autotune these years.
One important factor that is overlooked in all these anti-autotune videos I've seen, is that the an auto-tuner does not adjust the notes to the "correct" pitch!
Without going into details about temperament and intonation, there are several incompatible ways to define the right pitch for a note. The "equal temperament" used by an auto-tuner is a rather srude compromise and never the best solution musically. Whether they are concious about it or not, all good musicians will always try to adjust the pitch of the note to fit the chord and melodic line it's part of.
Take an A major chord around the middle C for example. With equal temperament the pitches are A=220 Hz, C#=277.18 Hz, E=329.63 Hz. A pure A major chord would be A=220 Hz, C#=275 Hz, E=330 Hz. This is what's most pleasing to the ear and it's what all musicians intuitively or consciously aim for.
The intonation difference of a note can be quite huge. Take the e above middle c for example. In a C major chord with an equal temperament tuned root (C=261.63 Hz) the ideal pitch for the E would be 327.04 Hz, that's almost 3 Hz lower than the equal temperament!
I'd be really interested to see a video that looks at the evolution of how technology changed how a band plays and sounds live. The focus could be anyone, really.
Maybe look at a live clip from the 70's or 80's when they are clearly playing 100% without a net.
Then we see how they sound when click tracks have clearly been introduced. How did that change their sound and energy? How does a band's entire live vibe change when they go from just playing together to having to stay in perfect time with lights, giant screen images, and pyro? It must be easy for any person on a production that big to feel lost in the cacophony of it all. I'll bet they all have an occasional feeling of, "I'm just here to accompany these visuals. We are playing in sync with them, not the other way around."
Anyway, we move forward to when backing tracks become prevalent, first for effects that they can't reasonably recreate live (fair enough), but eventually fully miming to them, which is not a new thing. The Milli Vanilli scandal was 35 years ago. That was huge. I was only 4 when it happened, but Milli Vanilli's tape skipping is honestly one of my earliest memories. Everyone was talking about it. It's not so shocking anymore.
Just a thought to throw out into the universe. It'd be fun to dig into the history and steps of how we got here by examining how each step altered a specific artist in some noteworthy way.
These production edits are ridiculous. Some People will demand real music
Didn't know Robert Downey Jr sang. Pitch correction is a sword in my side. Interesting that you mention Stings reference to "Tears" and how he emphasizes Tea ahhs.... Steve Perry also does that on his songs... ya, it is cool
He's released a ton of music. Mostly soundtrack stuff.
Well as you pointed out just 3 days ago with Dua Lipa "live," you aren't necessarily hearing the singer's voice because it will be low in the mix of the corrected studio version. So typical "live" now is really just lip sync with the live voice in the background.
Doing pitch correction on live recordings will also cause pitch changes in the audio bleeding into that mic, unless they've also been able to remove that. Maybe something to listen for.
I cant think of any major musician/band that I would pay to go see live because they all seem to be using that crutch.
Just found your channel, really interesting and a bit nerdy😂 love it.
I'm a big fan of live because of variations but Ido realise that sometimes auto tune on the mics can give effects.
You should watch some fancams of BTS it would be good to hear your analysis.
eg. Run from their concert "yet to come in Busan"
To me it's kind of like watching an actual boxing match or watching a Rocky Movie (I'm not trying to put Rocky Movies down). Both can be entertaining depending on your tastes but the difference is understood and obvious.
Hi. New subscriber and enjoy your videos. A young, British man, with a Hobbits’ t-shirt explaining details of bands and musicians that I also love.
You are the most diplomatic and happy person on UA-cam. From a Minnesotan … please relocate so I could ask for lessons.
All in all … I guess it makes perfect sense … in the Twilight Zone.
Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing!👍
I think the tee aahs is the Geordie coming out.
As a Geordie, I can always hear Sting's Geordie accent. It is who he is.
You should try to sing what now my love Elvis Presley wauuuu ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤