Young Red Angus Live With Dr. David Johnson & Hui-Chun Su Johnson
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2023
- Today’s UA-cam live is sponsored by Elivate Ag
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In this episode I have an in depth conversation with David and Hui Chun Su about Johnson Su compost
For more information watch Dr Johnson’s latest presentation
• Johnson Presentation_2...
To learn how to fill the Johnson Su bioreactor watch these videos
• Johnson Presentation_2...
• Changes In Filling a J... - Розваги
Excellent information and keep doing what you do! Dr. Johnson/Ms. Su and don’t discount yourself as an inspiration to show us we all can do this and make a huge impact!
When we look at our finished JS compost we use the hemo to count spores and bacteria as per David's protocols and then use Elaine's protocols/spreadsheet for biomass ratios for dirt/soil to other compost samples, as well for those who have manure, use a LAB Serum, I use extracts over teas, I started with teas back in 2015 with other compost/inputs, followed results for 5 years on every tea/extract, I now only use extracts since 2018, just over 1000 of them now, I also use worm castings for an extract within my JS extract (our compacted dirt lawns are bad), I started in 2020 using LAB Serum after chatting with Gerry Gillespie, now into biofertilizers as well, love the power of JS/Quorum/endophytes/rhizophagy cycle/trichomes
Greetings from Klaus in Germany, admiring all the works of Dr. David Johnson and his wife
Greetings!
Jay,
Thank you for hosting Dr. David and Hui-Chun Johnson. Like you, I’ve been following them for a while now and every time I hear them I learn something new.
Your dedication to sharing your story in detail (good and bad) combined with offering the latest appearance by the Johnson’s provides invaluable educational information based on experience. It’s not an exaggeration to say you are making a serious contribution to society.
It's always great listening to Johnson and Su. I took lots of notes, thanks for the interview. 👍
Iv watched Johnson and sue since I was a kid and they are great thanks to both of you west Australia 👍✌️🙂
Excellent. Thnx to you & both Drs.
Thank you for bringing them on - this was terrific ! It must be super encouraging to have them following what YOU are doing. Wow
Great!!!
Good job.
Amazing interview. I love the distinction between compost extract and compost tea
YRA, thank you for your curiosity, time and energy to bring us your content. Love it! How does the plastic sides of the totes contribute to the anaerobic problems your having?
Greetings to all from south africa. Have a few johnson su bioreactors in progress. Am looking forward to hearing the conversation
Re: Johnson Su compost and reducing pigweed and kochia (23:42) "OK, from what we’ve seen in the research, this is a system that you're rebuilding. And, you know, the Johnson Su compost is a part of it. It seems to kick-start the biology in the system. But you have to have the energy flow, and that's -- that’s plants growing. And that’s where the cover crops come in. They’re funneling that energy into the soil to build that community… of that population, the structure of it, the diversity, and the metabolic functionality. Again, it's an energy equation. The more photosynthesis that you can conduct and have that energy shuttled into the soil to build this community that's where you start to be able to move away from these weeds."
Thanks for the informative video. Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the encouragement
Jay...
Congratulations on your learning progress. You've obviously come a long way and have truly learned many lessons well, which you communcae well. Thank you.
One suggestions: Please Please reduce the number of times you insert ads. You had a sponsor and then WAY TOO MANY interruptions. Makes it hard to follow the disccussion. Thank you.
Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
01:28 *Dr. David Johnson and Wei-Chen Su Johnson introduce the Johnson-Su Bioreactor composting method, impacting soil health and reducing costs for farmers.*
03:39 *Young Red Angus shares economic benefits, citing a 50% reduction in nitrogen input, elimination of phosphorus, and substantial yield increases on their farm.*
08:10 *Importance of preventing compaction in compost, especially with green materials like grass clippings, emphasizing the need for aeration and proper moisture content.*
11:11 *Use of metagenomics to identify microbial species in Johnson-Su compost, highlighting the diversity and importance of a complete microbial community.*
18:07 *The role of diverse bacteria and fungi in making nitrogen and phosphorus plant-available, explaining the reduction in nitrogen and elimination of phosphorus input.*
21:27 *Quorum sensing explained as a microbial community collaboration, enhancing gene expression and capabilities, contributing to soil health and weed control.*
23:34 *Connection between cover crops, energy flow, and reduced weed populations like pigweeds and kosha, emphasizing the role of the Johnson-Su Bioreactor in rebuilding soil biology.*
24:41 *Cover crops play a crucial role in weed management by shading the soil and creating competition for weed seeds, helping reduce herbicide use.*
26:28 *A successful case study in Turkey showed complete elimination of herbicide and insecticide use by implementing cover crops, specifically a mix high in nitrogen fixers and legumes.*
27:35 *Although a multi-species cover crop mix may seem more expensive per pound of seed, the biomass produced and nitrogen fixation make it cost-effective in the long run.*
29:13 *Building up soil carbon and nitrogen simultaneously through diverse plant and microbial systems contributes to soil health and overall ecosystemfunctionality.*
31:48 *The ideal carbon-to-nitrogen ratio in soil depends on the crop being grown, emphasizing the importance of understanding the plant's life cycle and nutritional needs.*
35:52 *Increasing the Brix level (sugar content) in plants through improved soil health can deter pests like aphids, as they struggle to process higher sugar levels.*
37:03 *Restoration of a diverse insect community, coupled with increased soil health, contributes to natural pest control without the need for chemical interventions.*
41:22 *Extracts are preferred over teas initially as they capture a broader spectrum of microbes without biasing the population towards specific species, mimicking the complexity found in nature.*
43:43 *While teas can have benefits, making extracts from diverse compost (like Johnson-Su) is recommended for maintaining microbial diversity and avoiding population imbalances.*
49:26 *In terms of application, infusing liquid extracts through in-furrow injection or seed coating, especially when the seed is planted wet, yields better germination and growth responses.*
49:55 *Seed coating clarification: "Wet" doesn't mean a batter-like appearance; it may look dusty on the seed.*
51:10 *Considerations for using Johnson Su depend on your farming situation and goals, such as soil type, water availability, and environmental conditions.*
52:01 *Johnson Su as foliar in spring: Anecdotal evidence suggests it may enhance plant resistance by attracting beneficial fungi to leaves.*
53:36 *Parallel processing for waste management: Use a central processing plant for efficient and odor-free composting, emphasizing the importance of oxygen levels.*
58:19 *Nutrient density: Studies show increases in both iron and manganese after applying Johnson Su compost, challenging the need for additional macro and micronutrient applications.*
01:01:34 *Glyphosate's impact on Johnson Su: Glyphosate kills bacteria and fungi, tying up soil nutrients; a healthy microbial community can break it down, but the impact depends on usage.*
01:08:38 *Effect of seed treatments on Johnson Su: Despite fungicide treatments on GMO corn seeds, Johnson Su showed positive results, suggesting potential in reducing dependency on stacked seed varieties.*
01:10:47 *DNA testing caution: Fungal-to-bacterial ratio measurement clarification; emphasizes the importance of considering fungal spores in compost analysis for a more accurate representation.*
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Thank you for this opportunity.
I found myself wondering if they have experienced any backlash/pressure/collaboration/offers from corporate interests.
Sorry I missed the live talk.
Food is a good commodity to improve on.
In B.C. Canada we have an alternative use for the Compost tea, with so much clear cutting of the B.C. rainforest, we think the CO2 lost needs to be put back into the soil. So newly planted seedlings need to be fertilized with the Compost tea to hasten the forest growth. 15 year old Trees aren’t going to sequester enough Carbon, those trees won’t be harvestable till they are 70 years old. So anything to improve the forest biomass at a faster rate is a must.
Removing the forest at a faster rate than you can replant and grow back is a top priority. At 20t per hectare you can get a lot of Carbon capture back into the soil.
Jay, anyone you know who struggles to lift brix as an aphid prevention, suggest they trial a molasses/kelp foliar during infestation. This of course lifts brix but it also forms a coat of sugar ..... and aphids can't digest sugars. You will find carcass frames & inactive aphids the next morning while feeding the plant ..... that feeds the soil.
I often (not always) add JS to this foliar, opportunistically reducing passes/costs.
Oh, Stuart Hole
Thanks!
Already carried out some experiments on 1 hectare of newly planted trees at 3, 500 ft in B.C. Canada, the growth is way above the 1 hectare not treated with the tea. So looks good for the future. Remember the longer the Rainforest in Canada or Brazil before reforestation, the more topsoil is washed off due to heavy rainstorms, and remember the latest buzzword is Rivers of Rain.
I've come back to this interview many times and really appreciate the effort into posting and sharing this interview. I'm trying to find out how much biomass is lost during the composting process? Busy figuring out how much material I need for my fields.
ua-cam.com/video/A6o8X2bQmqA/v-deo.html
Please send a link to the presentation where dr Johnson talks about quorum sensing
52:00 Johnson Su foliar on wheat
Do you have a question for me?
@youngredangus6041 Have you ever tried Johnson Su as foliar? I would really like to see the video you referenced, too bad it got taken down. I know I have heard Dr Johnson say the extract works better as seed treat or in furrow. I'm surprised he didn't have much to say about your foliar story. My plan is to overwhelm a small patch of my land with around 20 lbs of compost as seed treat, in furrow, and foliar applications with an XAG P100 Pro drone sprayer I plan to purchase next year.
@@jimlewis1992
We did a foiler two years ago
Couldn’t see the difference waiting for a really wet April
I’m sure it will make the difference then on strip rust
I live in Minnesota I need advice for the year long cycle through the winter months!!
how does a person with four months of snow minimum continue keeping the bio reactor doing its job during the cold months? I know there’s a heat up during the first few weeks but then after that it goes into an Ambien 80° temperature range approximately
-also I’ve heard Mr. Johnson and his wife repeatedly say do not let this freeze
Word from experience: don’t grow in the bioreactor. Last year, I had the idea of starting the nitrogen fixing cycle before the pit was complete. About 10 months in I put some cover crop grasses in with 3 months or so til maturity and when I went to unload the compost, the roots went down about 30 inches and it was a bear to unload the pit. Compost works great tho.
Something I don’t get was why you’d take all the sand and clay and rocks out. Now I’m using hardwood leaves that I run over twice with my lawn mower, bagging the second run and soaking them. I’ve made about 10 pits in the last 3 years. I find Sand helps for drainage, clay forms a aluminum silicate humus colloid, and aren’t the microbes supposed to be able to digest the granite pieces?
Good question Robert. I don’t have the answer. I didn’t take one bioreactor through the bath so we shall see how it goes
Thanks for the reply. I’ve been reading some bio dynamics people. Hugh Lovel’s book called quantum agriculture talks about the clay humus complex. He layers clay into this compost piles like “sugar on porridge”. I tried this with a pit I had to rebuild after the air columns caved in. I also put in a little diatomaceous earth as, per my understanding, the fungal hyphae use silica as a way to transport their messaging across their network. Think of computer processors being made from the same element. This particular compost is intended to be spread out whole and not as an inoculant. I have another pit designated for that. Thanks for the videos!
Robert, i don’t know if this clarifies, but my understanding is simply that we are making the compost for the microbe production and want to optimize for that. You have clays and sand already in your soil so no need to allocate some percentage of your compost or extract to that. While the microbes CAN digest with their acids the elements in the dirt particles, there is no particular benefit to your extract for them to do so. They got plenty of good work to do on the OM you added to your BR or compost pile. Plus, the sand and clay especially will promote the anaerobic conditions you do not want. Wood chips, etc rather than sand will keep your pile aerobic.
Love the comment I’ve been thinking about planting a diverse cover crop on my piles inoculating the roots with mycorrhizal fungi let the roots take over then when the diverse cover crop is done chop it down cover with card board let the red wiggles consume the root and above ground bio mass adding more carbon via root exudates and from the decaying bio mass
So what is the best muti-species cover crop for soybeans?
I’m always making my Bioreactor here in NJ in November when the leaves become available and so my bioreactor compost is ready in November. How do we store the compost to best preserve the microbiology? Ok to let it freeze or dry out?
no don’t let it freezes or dry out
that is new for me - if plants are growing in your bioreactor, something went wrong + when applied 23 species of mycorhizzal fungi! what is this test that he says he uses to check the mycorhizzal fungi? mygreathanks and blessings
Thanks Paul
So weed seeds and pathogens aren't an issue with completed compost from this process? Do you have to track the temperature throughout to ensure this happens?
I think temp needs to hit 140. You only need to track during the heating process
Thank you, QUESTION Su said plants should not grow in fresh compost but how about adding thyme and grasses who promote the microrizzal fungi after the compost has finished it’s heat process?
(Pic of a bioreactor with thyme and grasses growing.)
I would wait until the last two months of the life of the compost
Don’t grow in it. The roots will go to the bottom and it’s a pain to unload
I originally thought the same thing. However, I’ve listened to multiple researchers say that the mycorrhiza spores are literally everywhere and once the energy flow kicks off with the first seeds sprouting, the exudates will also awaken the mycorrhiza and they will colonize the root systems. This is one of the many reasons to have multiple plant families present.
@@jeffschmucker1640
Thanks for the the feedback Jeff
But if you had a Reactor that you don’t have to harvest from for a year or so I’d say grow out the roots then let the red wigglers and the biology consume the root and above ground bio mass let it sit till it’s all consumed then use it
Jay I have 2 questions for Dr. Johnson and Dr. Su if you're still in contact?
1) What is the purpose of the black cloth on the outside of the Johnson-Su bioreactor? What problem does it solve?
2) Why is it bad if the Johnson-Su bioreactor freezes?
If the local environment freezes, then it seems beneficial to let the bio-reactor freeze so that bacteria and fungi are selected for that survive in the local environment.
I've not ran into answers to these 2 questions so far in any of the vidoes.
Thanks,
The cloth on the outside was to prevent it from drying out. There are plenty of people who use chicken wire and just let the outside dry out. I’m not sure it matters all that much.
2 We address the 2nd one in this video. Freezing keeps the biology from fully developing. As I mentioned mine froze solid near the end and still made good compost.
Their is still a lot to learn on this topic.
What are your experiences Doug?
@@youngredangus6041 Thanks Jay. Just working my way through Dr. Elaine's Soil Food Web School classes. I will be in Japan till late summer then will get back to start making compost and doing the microscopy work. Mom has 40 acres I been regenerating for about 10 years. Soil biology is the part that I have been overlooking due to being unaware of it's importance to everything else. I was following Geoff Lawton. When I saw a few of Dr. Elaines videos on line back in August, I signed up within a few days because she had the answers which if you notice, no one seems to explain what the biology is actually doing. Well she does. I normally write software but with an engineering degree and a biology and lots of chemistry classes I thought, I grew up on a farm, I've pulled my fair share of weeds, I know microscope, I need to learn this stuff and signed up eventhough I just did not have the money. So for the past 6 months I been living on a real tight budget to pay for the classes.
I really want to move towards Dr. Johnson's BEAM and composting methods but building enough bioreactors to cover 2000+ acres is a daunting challenge. I saw in a previous video by CSUExtension (Static Pile High Fungal Compost Demonstration) that he trialed a method for larger scale compost production, how can I find out more about this? Is it possible to contact them directly?
David West
utemountainranch@yahoo.com
@@youngredangus6041 Thank you very much
I raise quail in my garage. I am trying to create a 'model suburban homestead' in my community. But disposing of quail poop is a bit tricky since I have very limited space and lots of edibles growing everywhere. The bioreactor sounds ideal, but I'm working on a much smaller scale. I was hoping to get some feedback on a design I have in mind and wonder if it is safe to implement. I tried contacting Dr Johnson at New.Mexico University, bur he has just retired. Any suggestions?
Any suggestions on making a smaller bioreactor?
@@youngredangus6041 I want to use a prefab compost wrap like the geobin. It has no bottom or top, you can adjust the diameter up to 3ft and 6 inches, it is perforated with holes all over. I want to place that on a pallet that is elevated on cinder blocks because the soil gets pretty soggy in the winter. Instead of the removable plastic tube, I want to place a permanent tube made of hardware cloth with an 8 inch diameter in the center. This allows permeation of air throughout the reactor. I plan to line the bottom with some branches and mulch and start loading in my weekly load of quail poop, kitchen scraps, yard clippings and paper goods. I will keep in mind to load it with 1/3 of each component and keep it relatively moist. If all works well, I should be able to add worms after the 3 week mark. Does that sound like it could work? I plan to fill it for a year, let it sit for a year, then use it. During the year it is sitting, I will be filling a second one. That way, each year I have prime compost to use in my garden.
Jay, why do you think teas kill populations? You might want to look further into that statement. BTW, teas create glues as that is a byproduct of cells splitting. These glues make teas sticky so they don’t run off leaves. Use teas for foliar sprays and extracts for soil drenching. (You don’t want glues keeping the microbes on the surface which is another reason to minimize teas for drench.) BTW there are gazillion microbes on leaves. In your open minded inquiry that is fueling your awesome learning, i sense you may be a bit bias or making early conclusions in this tea / extract distinction. Keep up the awesome work!
Dean very well written statement. Teas kill certain populations of Fungi and explode others. I’ve heard that from multiple people Dr Johnson included. Do you agree with that? That is the point I was making. I’m I wrong? Do you have information to share that shows other wise.
Thanks for your push back on my statement. Iron sharpens iron
I agree with Dean. But the main focus here is in furrow or seed treatment. When we start talking about foliars then we can switch the conversation to teas and bioferments.
Jay, sorry if i sent an iron vibe. Certainly not intended. i sure do love the shared inquiry, though, and how you keep entering it with an open and inquisitive mind. I am sure no expert here, but like many of us deep into the constant discovery process. What I’ve learned from Dr. elaine Ingham and witness in my own empirical observations of impact in regard to the topic at hand: Beneficial microbes are aerobic and need oxygen above 6 ppm. Those loving O2 between 4-6ppm are called facultative and they can be either good/bad, while anaerobes, the so called bad guys love O2 below 4. When conditions are not right, the microbes go dormant, then come out and thrive when conditions turn favorable. Teas with high O2 levels and food explode aerobic microbes. The only reference I have ever heard about O2 killing microbes was this video and am surprised David would infer that. I’d like to hear he and Elaine talk that point through.
Something I learned from Gary Mauer at Green Pro recently: he makes teas in his professional applications because they provide many times more microbes. Then he’ll dilute the tea up to 5x with water and apply 80-100GPA as a surface and leaf soil drench. Why? Microbes need moisture AND the extra water creates the pathway for those high microbe counts to penetrate the soil rather than have their glues keep them on the soil surface where they cannot thrive and will therefore go dormant. The liquid that does not drop off the leaves provides microbes to the leaf where as you know they are equally needed. I am upgrading my sprayer pump and nozzles to experiment with this approach. But I will still use my BEAM in furrow during seeding.
Soooooo much to learn and explore. Something new everyday. I hear continually from the experts bits of conflicting conclusions. Hard to navigate at times to what is actually true. My discipline is to try to limit my conclusion making and keep the doors of wondering open, but that isn’t always easy for me. It is so much simpler to conclude I got the answer like we’ve done in conventional agriculture for years. Constant inquiry takes discipline, energy and mindfulness.
I think sometimes the expert are making premature conclusions based on their partial information. They have a perspective and point of view that doesn’t see or know everything, just like the rest of us. Perhaps also like the rest of us they inadvertently begin to bias toward that point of view? Half the fun of all this is listening to what they say - AND to where they are orienting from that has them conclude that - and triangulating it to what others say think and say - and letting the Truth reveal itself to us. What a journey we are on!
I love your videos, man, and the couple conversations we have had. Keep the cameras rolling!
@@DeanWAnderson
Their wasn’t any sarcasm in my comment. You are definitely sharpening me. I have alot to learn and grow in. When I am challenged by someone respectfully I really appreciate it. I hope I didn’t come across the wrong way.
I want you and other people like you to always ask good tough questions when they think I might be off on something I am teaching.
Thanks
Do you farm Dean? If so where. If not what has sparked your passion for understanding biology deeper?
Jay, i have never heard you be sarcastic so no worries from me in that regard. Good question, “do i farm?” Kinda…No cash crop. In SW Colorado, 7200’, 19” rain. Been regenerating 120 acres of over grazed and sprayed perennial pasture. 10 years ago I key line plowed it (no till strategy from Australia to create air and oxygen flow to open compaction) and planted 31 species of forbes, grasses, flowers to attract wildlife and pollinators. Great germination, poor growth due to lack of rain. Tried a second time year. Same limited outcomes.
So i embarked on trying to answer the question of how to regen the land with less water falling from the sky. That led me to Dr. Ingham, David Johnson, Christine Jones, Nicole Master, John Kempf, Gabe, Ray, etc. I have completed Dr. Ingham’s four Foundation Classes and about to complete hopefully the LabTech certification. I want to really know what I am seeing in the microscope so my empirical observations on the ranch can be correlated to what is actually happening in the extract, tea, compost, soil. Mostly, i am a student and sponge.
You and i talked about compost inputs last summer. Happy to go offline and continue any of it…
Was this the David West UA-camr you we're referring to?
@DavidWestBgood2ppl
I’m not sure
I’ll try to look it up tomorrow and get back with you
@@youngredangus6041 Just replying in hopes of the info as well
No John that isn’t the same guy