The Moto News E73: ADV Bike Special! Yamaha's Auto, V-Strom 800DE Rally, DesertX Discovery, 390 ADV!
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- This week on the Full Tank pod, Rob / @motobob and Tim / @rarefiedroad are at Adventure Bike Rider Festival 2024 talking about:
0:00 - Hello from ABR
0:28 - More Automation: Yamaha Launch T-AMT
15:34 - Suzuki V-Strom 800DE Rally @ ABR
20:21 - More aggressive KTM 390 ADV Spied
24:51 - Ducati DesertX Discovery Launch
30:54 - Comment Of The Week - KTM Camshaft Issue?
35:15 - Bike Of The Week: Moto Morini Seiemmezzo STR Bolt-On Kit
Stories:
www.suzukipress.co.uk/release...
www.visordown.com/news/new-bi...
Bike Of The Week:
www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2...
Like this pod? Sponsors, we’d love to hear from you! enquireies@motobob.cc - Авто та транспорт
Being one who hated DCT but now adore the device, I’m all in for shifting the paradigm. Pun intended.
the 800DE is one of those bikes that looks much better in real life then on a computer.
Rob rocking the gone fishing hat while Tim is rocking is old '2 year since last upload' rarified road hat hahaha all love to both
With DCT, I do wonder where all this tech is taking us - one day soon you'll have a bike with not only traction control and lean-sensitive ABS, but adaptive cruise-control with DCT and an in-built gyroscope to keep it up right which will essentially drive it's self - and you've got to wonder how engaging a riding experience will you have then when you, the rider is largely redundant?
My biggest concern on DCT is reliability and ease of field repair. The problem with more tech, is more chances of something breaking down when one is in a location where a field repair is required to get to your home or repair facility. This is where simpler mechanical and electrical systems are a benefit.
That is some awesome PR horse puckey from Yam....
Dude your hat is killing me 😅 rock on!
Right, there were tons of things I let slip on this channel because I generally like listening to Bob. Missed/skipped bikes in compilations, factual errors, positive opinions on virtually any bike, and more. But that does it. If you call yourself a motorcycle journalist/influencer or whatever and you actually haven’t heard about KTM’s camshaft issues, there are only two options - you either won’t talk about anything bad so as not to lose your access to test bikes, or you actually don’t know what you’re doing. There are entire groups in social media, entire threads, entire websites dedicated to this topic. I mean, this is common knowledge and it’s nothing new. I just don’t know which is worse - not knowing about it or consciously ignoring and downplaying it. Either way, this is simply unacceptable to me. No excuses.
The 800DE is an awesome platform and SR75 knocked it out of the park. Hopefully, they make a kit for the USA.
@5:58 what a load of marketing BS.. did chatgpt write that yamaha?
is it just me or are other people also finding all the technology exhausting
Regarding the trend with many of these moto makers toward dct transmissions, when i first started riding i would have loved it. Now as a 20 plus year rider Id couldnt care less. I feel its to partly being done to combat the electric bikes i.e. zero and livewire which requred no clutch.
Surely this lean to automatic transmission is related to the move by car manufacturers to only have automatic vehicles (electric). This system on motorbikes is for the next generation of motorcyclists so they feel comfortable. What are your thoughts?
Look what happened in the car industry automatic become a norm, for fast sports cars, cars for driving are manual (Mazda MX-5, Honda Civic Type R,...)
Probably we will see this in motorbike industry also, touring, city, race bikes with auto, and bikes for curvy roads manuals❤❤
Great podcast guys
Thank you for bringing up the KTM cam concerns, hoping this is addressed by KTM…people moving away from the brand and will not come back.
I went from a 2016 Honda AT w/DCT to a 2024 Honda TransAlp this year. It took some getting used to riding a manual again, the DCT was really smooth and nice on long rides but that 1st generation AT w/DCT had some shifting issues at low speeds but compared to my TransAlp, it was fairly low tech. I guess for a lot of rider who believe an automatic or DCT automatically (no pun intended) brings high tech nanny gadgets, it doesn't have to be the case, if manufacturers make it an option for all level of bikes and not just high end or speed out tech models.
Definitely interested in different shifting style transmissions, especially ones with hand controls. Hate swingarm mounted mud guard/plate holders. I've seen so many negative reliability comments on KTM's 790/890 P-twin engine platform (Norden and even one on a 990) that I would no longer consider purchasing anything using it without a detailed explanation from KTM of what the actual cause of the cam/main bearing failures was and what was done to fix that particular problem. Even giving KTM the benefit of the doubt that it would be fixed under warranty I have to wonder how long the bike would be down waiting on parts (another common KTM complaint I've seen).
KTM 790/890 2018-2020? There's several UA-camr's talking about camshafts, valves etc. including a mechanic and forums too, MCN has 5 user reviews with one mentioning it. There seems to be a lot of low mileage bikes for sale? It was a bike I was considering. Apparently it was redesigned after 2020 oil-ways? I'm not sure ~9000 mile oil changes are helpful either. It would be very useful to have a definite answer. Enjoyed a test on a zero, fun and fast, I'll certainly try an auto at some point. I do like tech and simplicity too, a carburettor is easy to fix, so a good excuse to have a few bikes perhaps. Being at one philosophicaly and physically with the bike is most definitely a thing, personally ;-)
From what I’ve heard, 6-8k km [ca. 4k miles] oil changes do the trick. However, even though I love the bike, it’s too much of a risk for me. Especially that KTM doesn’t seem to own it. Too bad 😢
Love this episode after a few brews the laughter flow’s freely
Cheers Mates 🍻
Great pod cast, as for swinging are number plate, it's great idea, it stop all the water/road crap covering the back of the bike
My R1250R will be getting a GS swinging arm mudguard as last time out in the rain, the bike was covered in crap, even the pillion seat got dirty! ffa 😮
One of the biggest downfalls I can think of autos/dct units offroad is when you find yourself in a position where you would usually be popping or feathering the clutch to get over/around obstacles? I'm happy to be proved wrong though.
I buy and own the bike for 20 years. Do all the maintenance. DCT no worries, undo the cover, spring, fling, bling. Kiss. Have been waiting for a thumb brake std for 20 years and they come out with autotransmission. Like to see how feeding out the clutch into a hairpin
Did you see the Cycle World's Suzuki 800DE Dakar? They also built a pretty good looking v-strom which rather looks ugly from the factory
I like the move as while some people want simple some others still want easier.
The Auto Manual with up down on the controls is the dumbest solution. Both Kawi and Yam are making a mistake.
I think the E-Clutch is the best solution mentioned as you can still get going twist and go but have control over your gears yourself. Any future Auto needs to still have shifting choice through the regular left foot. Even if the bike has fill auto as an option. None of the stupid thumb shifting when you are using them for other important things.
Digging the hat, mate! :)
Same argument is auto vs manual cars. Manual is always more fun and engaging. Requires skill and precision and that's is fun part. Motorcycles are Fun tools. And not mopeds.
14:02 Sometimes Motobob and co. Talk a lot of nonsense. Many riders, including me (riding for 50 years) like these developments. Not being one with your bike? You need to rethink that statement! How about people suffering from i. e. arthritis, etc. Automatic scooters have been with us for at least 40 years+ and is fantastic. Why not on bikes!
As a mountain biker, changing gears with just a finger or thumb like a Shimano XT trigger does, would work well for me due to muscle memory. Make a semi-automatic option like this on an offroad/adventure bike makes a bunch of sense to me.
Automatic transition I hate it. It is clearly a pushed factor, next year the companies will say 'see they want automatic, see how many have sold'. When its the only option for the flagship models that people actually want. Tail wagging the dog.
I'm indifferent to automatic shifting. It doesn't address any problem I have. Cruise control however does solve a problem. I'm old and if I ride more than an hour or two, I get pain in my wrist. Cruise goes a long way to resolving this problem. I love the way KTM makes cruise an option over much of their product line. Other manufacturers should follow suit.
Why don’t you move your wrist into a comfortable position?
@@davidmatthews3093 What position would that be?
Dct is not for me it adds 10 kg in weight on nt1100 and £1000 extra and what happens when its out of warranty and something goes wrong with the dct on cars it's very expensive so i think you would have a shock if you have any issues.
Just one question. How many motorcycles competing in the Paris Dakar race use automatic or DCT transmissions? I would think these riders would be all over hitting the easy button regarding transmissions. I guess if the answer is a lot and they are winners the I think I have my answer.
So, soon you’ll be able to buy a Yamaha Teneré with no tubeless wheels, but with automatic transmission?
"Never riden a 🫎 " hard to believe.
Will auto transmissions allow you to rev up in a tunnel?
all this electronics will lead to speed restrictors the same as they are building into cars
If I want to ride a scooter, I'll buy a scooter. I don't want DCT on a motorcycle, I want control over the gearing and the response that comes from down-shifting on demand.
I'm so sick of manufacturers dumbing-down the driver/rider interface. Doing so removes some of the capability of the bike that makes riding more fun.
Like another commenter said - Did the manufacturers ask what WE wanted? Or did they just decide this was what the kids wanted after all the hype about self-driving cars?
Auto bikes are not new. Remember the Aprilia Mana?
wow do you live under a rock ? ktm cams on the parallel twins do not last as long as the front tyre in some cases !
Whos got a 7/890. How was the reliability?
My pal has 790 adv r. Camshaft had visible wear and tear after 14kkm inspection. Another one has an 890 adv r. He changes oil every 6-7kkm and so far so good [currently at ca. 28kkm mileage]. Also, from what we’ve read, not all bikes are affected by this issue. Kind of a lottery. They are both incredibly fun bikes to ride, but the risk is simply too high for me 😢
Less aids ALWAYS.... what to be able to fix MY bike 😊
The aim with automatic bikes is to get people who can’t ride into riding. The global supply of old school riders has depleted. The younger ones didn’t grow up racing motoX in the 70s like we did. So everything we consider “normal” and “right” is completely alien to them. These days, getting a kid into mini bikes is called out by doctors and others who think it’s “dangerous” because they treated a kid once who hit a tree while not wearing a helmet, and they petition government to ban things. Then the people who bought cheap land next to the mini bike track and then petitioned to close it. You wind up being viewed as some sort of child neglecting environmental monster if you want your kids to experience the fun we had growing up. So we have modern young adults who either completely dismiss motorcycling….because face it, my wife’s DCT turbo hatch gets the same fuel consumption as my V4 1200…or they are completely inept on an old school bike. Then there’s government safety bodies mandating useless safety features (I survived riding off road on BMWs first version of ABS, useless is an understatement). We have dumbed down society to a point now where an entry level rider will tell you it’s imperative you wear all the safety gear I managed to survive 55 years of riding without. We had a simple philosophy way back then. Don’t wanna get hurt, don’t crash.
Not interested in tech? Nearly every bike without a quick shifter and cruise control is crossed of the average Adventure Biker’s wish list. If it doesn’t have modes and radar then it’s a real no hoper. Personally I don’t understand it, I wouldn’t have a quickshifters on any road bike and as for cruise control… what’s that all about. I ride motorcycles to ride motorcycles and have great muscle memory when it comes to changing gear, I also find it were straightforward to comfortable hold the throttle where I want it to be when cruising on a fast road. In my opinion anything that takes input away from the rider is working against road safety. Having said that I’m sure that ABS can be a lifesaver but I really can’t remember when I last locked up a tyre unintentionally on or off road but the other ‘aids’ are just a fashion, a way to get fools to part with their money.
I can see the desire for automatic transmission if you have a medical issue or at an age where it’s too difficult. Otherwise I have zero interest in this technology.
Same the whole point of loving my motorcycle rather than mom SUV is manual transmission and joy of changing geara
KTM problems no I can't belive that, I know lets build more of our models in China that will solve the problem?
Actually, KOVE uses the 790 engine in their 800X model. However, from what I’ve heard, they actually use heavier shafts, changes the oiling, and rebuilt the top a bit to eliminate this issue. So yeah, if this gets proven, it would be a clear evidence that the Chinese can actually do better than the Europeans. And yet, I’m sure there will be people denying that 😂
Motorcycle must remain normal. Prices will go up and up and up.Same as cars. We don’t need this crazy tech .
Regarding auto bikes:- What is the essence of riding? Going, stopping and turning. If you think about in these terms, changing gear is just something that gets in the way - it's an extra, unnecessary layer that is only polluting those 3 core aspects.
Such great philosophies.......
I watched this whole podcast but I'm still only at a 1/4 of a tank. This is false advertising
Automatic transmission = Useless off road!
Litterly says the opposite of everyone who’s actually riden one. Speaking from zero experience for the loss
DCT in cars is horrible and unreliable, look at the class actions on the ford focus as an example. There is no way I will ever OWN an auto motorcycle.
So clutch out on a shaft drive maybe 15kph?
On flat ground/up hill I can modulate the clutch and have exactly 5kph for a long as I want with a mix if slipped power and free wheel.
Down hill clutch out with brake pulsing to stop brake fade…
I do not see how the new BMW system could compete with even that simple task without burning out the clutch and brakes from constant slip while needing the brake….? Am I wrong?
This is exactly why a torque converter auto is fine for low speed off-road and all the computer controlled autos with a clutch are useless as you end up killing the clutch.
I would love to see a durability test on the auto gearbox in maintaining walking speed for extended periods vs a manual trans.
CFMoto 450 looks far better than this new KTM… and CFMoto has quite good reliability in its other models and KTM is known for biodegradable motorcycles… so… guess what :)
Comparing pears to apples. They are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT bikes. Also, the CFMoto is extremely heavy for this capacity and power. While the 390 is actually one of their most reliable models, and a single cylinder.
... next year Auto Braking ... the next year Auto Throttle !. With all these aids that reduce or eliminate the need for the rider to have (any) skills ... would you remind me again why these 'riders' bother with a bike ?. Go buy a Tesla or a Cadillac.
You have no clue what people want because you are focused only on UK and USA markets...which, let's be honest, are dominated by old people. And if you take aside food delivery drivers, it looks even worse, very old people :)
What are you implying? I suggest you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.