I actually think that a separate reward system based on car manufacturer affinity would be a nice idea. You already drive a certain car from said brand name, and therefor you are building up fame (or respect) to them. To which they should reward you for continuously driving their cars. It makes me think of FM4's Car Brand affinity level. One where you even could get discounts to car parts, instead of what is going on now. *Update: Oh wow. I did not think I’d receive so many likes in a short time. Let alone the blessing by the Spoon Man himself. Thank you so much, everyone.
Yeah, but instead of 100% discount you can get instead of some random tuner/performance brand, you get a cheaper and more powerful (or either more poweful/cheaper) part from the main brand. Not a perfect idea but it's an idea, definitley better than the grinding you have to do to just get a small weight reduction.
hey, keep your head up high, the game will still be fun in most ways, even if this one system makes it flawed. Edit: save yourself some brain cells and dont fall too deep into this all over the place reply section.
That's even not a demo, it's an extremely closed build with not even 2% of all the content of the game. Wait for the release, this game build have been given to content creator only for the pure gameplay and feeling and nothing else
They could have overhauled other aspects of the game like visual customization for Forza aero, or exhaust tip customization. Instead, the developers decided to overhaul how you upgrade your car, which was not a major issue in previous Forza games. Hopefully they address this, given the amount of feedback they have gotten.
Disagree, this stops idiots jumping in say a 60's Fiat and making it 4 wheel drive and 1000bhp, ruining times leaderboard times and ruining the online side of the game. Hopefully will stop that Don Small Dong (or whatever his name is) from just building hundreds of overpowered 4wd and flooding the game with them. Hopefully the Leaderboards will have the best drivers at the top and not some glitchy twat who ruins online for everyone
Well, there are valid complaint about having no sense of progression in Forza games,which I think is a more fundamental issue to the feel of the game, than customization. So tackling that should have been a good thing, yet they only made it far WORSE. 'Soo we ruined the progression by overdosing wheelspins and totally devaluing money and cars thus personal attachment to individual cars. Dumb addict consumers finally realised that while free stuff now may be hype, it makes everything in the longrun feel hollow and they started to complain. How do we solve this? Let's gate uprgades behind a haphazardly thrown together RPG grind that makes no sense in a racing game to mess that up too and call it PrOgRrEsSiOn!' Genius Forza, genius -.-" Not a real Forza player, only picked up Horizon 4 a month ago, and watched some stuff both Horizon and Morotsport, so can't really go in-depth, but this lack of sense of progress was a big issue for me. I literally Alt+F4-d out when I saw how low the McLaren F1's pricetag was. Felt like the game is insulting a piece of history. And it's an issue generally true, just the F1 was personal for me. Personal background aside, I think they should've looked at Racedriver Grid (the good old 2008 one) for inspiration, that game had amazing progression fitting for Motorsport's track racing setting. You started out as a hired driver to collect enough money to restore an old mustang and start your racing garage/stable. You could unlock sponsorship deals, by winnig new events and those sponsors granted you extra income on races by meeting their conditions. Also the events were divided into 3 regions (USA, Euro and Japan) and completing them gave reputation to unlock higher tiers and the eventual global event list with world tour tournaments. It started slow, but revved up, and you could turn your garage into a true juggernaut by the endgame. It just felt like a truly rewarding adventure. Now if we don't want to rip off Grid wholesale, pillars for a similar model are already in Horizon 4 with the influence levels for separate disciplines. Why not build more on those and fine-tune the overbearing wheelspins around them? Just spitballing, tone down the cash and car rewards on wheelspins by a lot for start. Have a reputation bar with manufacturers and disciplines and scrap this stupid car point BS. As you level up certain disciplines it increases the cash payout in doing those kinds of events. The real collector's cars and high-end track-toys should be gated behind reputation with the manufacturer. As you level up, the wheelspins slowly change also for more cars and phase out the small cash rewards. It's all about that underdog story. Make it feel like you started from nothing, worked for it, and earned your hundred+ car dream garage. If you spin or buy a new car in the first 10 hours, make it feel like an event, that really opened up doors, makes you strategize your career. But also we don't want the feel of wasted wheelspin in the late-game with stupid hats and chumchange. Flat wheelspin RNG is the biggest bullshit, takes the sense of achievemnt away from the early game, and has tons of redundant meaningless stuff by the end. The huge collection is part of Forza's DNA, but make it feel like an adventure getting to that point.
We have been hoping they address the lack of good visual customization for years now. We have gotten a few things here and there but it has mostly been largely ignored.
@@DarkestVibez Don't know who "we" is. Have been playing Forza from day one and visual customisation is at the bottom of the list. Getting the online racing balanced and the in game physics improved is at the top. If you want pretty visual customisation then NFS is probably more your thing. Most Motorsports players want good fair racing with no overpowered 4wd abominations on the track
I miss the early forza motorsport leveling system, it was based on manufactures, when the manufacture was leveled up you got a 100% discount on the parts.
Which is not realistic. This system will really separate the enthusiasts from the casual player. And i love that. It will really allow us more serious players with proper rigs to match up with others like us.
I think a good middle ground would be having car upgrades start off as unlocked, but very expensive, and as you level up the car, the upgrades get progressively discounted to reasonable levels. That way all the work you put into the game in general can still benefit any car, and you can choose to fully upgrade any car instantly, but you're still incentivized to level up the particular car you want to modify. I also like the idea of something like Horizon's car mastery type bonuses being applied to cars as they're leveled up as an additional incentive that doesn't affect the actual driving experience.
I wanted to write exect same thing, but with addition of manufactures levels, that would also get you a discount on car parts. Because as in real life some cars share the same parts.
A good solution but your missing a point here they want you to grind so that gamepass gets many playing hours on it wich equals a shitload of money from and for investers . They will very likely implement mechanics like these in other games to just to artificially inflate those hours wich is gonne ruin many games in the future aswell thays why i already didnt like gamepass from the very beginning because of this business model they introduced on top of that there is a few more problems with it like the fact you dont own games anymore or the problem with some devs not getting paid enough and many more.problems . This only is good for microsoft not for gaming not for games not for the devs not for you and me and microsoft will be swimming in everbodies money while we get bad games
@konradjaworski3222 the whole point of this game is to have fun and be able to do what you want WHEN you want, its not a sim. And it's most definitely not real life
Was super excited and was seriously considering getting the deluxe or premium or what ever the top shelf game package is called, but now I think I'll just play it on gamepass, I feel after the initial excitement, the grind is going to become too tedious to warrant much play time.
Cars level up fast actually, most cups on career mode focus on 3 cars you choose one and you play the whole cup with it, by the time you finish the 5 races the cars is already like level 25, the better you drive the more xp it gets, you also can go to free play and let the AI drive and it will level up. I like the custom way as it really makes you play with the car and if you Jim straight to online you will be playing against other players that most probably have the same car level making it mor fair playing if you trying to show that you drive good instead of winning over the rest just because your cars is top level while the rest isn’t. It is just like if the FIA where applying their rules here if you think about it.
What about account based leveling? That you would have to progress through races to get to level 50 as a character in the career mode. You would unlock the upgrades in the same order and within the same amount of time but for all cars. So that you need to grind an put in the hours once and then earn the freedom which makes forza special in the first place
It's important to remember that these things are not set in stone. They could easily reduce the time it takes to level up a car, change the level requirements for certain upgrades, and also fix the car duplicate issue.
I think they major issue is them forcing you to spend your car points how they see fit (According to level) not how you would like to upgrade your car.
They wont change it because there are to many stupid people buying the game despite knowing how much it sucks . I cant believe how many stupid people are out there wasting their money on a shit game they cant return for a full refund rule #1 never waste your money on a product that people who have tested says it sucks .
Yes they are written in stone , back when FM 3 came out everyone wanted the Host player controlled public rooms back , and to get rid of the storefronts and just have the Auctions like in FM2 , Turn 10 didn't listen even though 25% of the gamers returned their games and many others stating they would never play Forza again . Turn 10 has a habit of flipping people the bird , the only way the game will change back to what it was like in FM2 is if no one buys or plays the game and almost bankrupts them . Personally I would love it if FM went tits up , for , that would straighten up other games like GT making them listen to what people want . Only an idiot would think that buying the game or downloading it free using game pass will get them to change everything that sucks about it , you dont give business a chance to make a change by buying their products like really do you actuly think they are going change something when they already got your money like how stupid are people .
A very logical and well-reasoned -factual presentation- _argument_ on the state of the current system. Whoever among the team that thought up of this system played way too many MMOs.
This is a game, after all. Besides, idk if all of his points make sense. For instance, he said that the AI levels their car performance to yours. If that’s true, then why did he say that driving a newly bought car is “inferior” to the rest of the grid? Or was he talking about something else?
@@fifteen8850Ofc your opponents match the perfomance of your car. Look at what is happening in forza horizon 5, all opponents are roughly the same class as you.
@@fifteen8850 From what I understood, he was talking about inferior to your own tastes, for instance I prefer driving classic cars with middling upgrade levels, not too much power but lightweight, grippy and with AWD, as my favorite kind of race condition is usually wet or rally (since I want some speed but not so much that my slow reactions hamper my enjoyment too much). But if I got the game I'd be unable to race that way until I progress enough to upgrade an older cheap vehicle (that part is fine) by driving it for hours before I can finally reduce the weight, swap the drivetrain and swap the engine for one with a better power band (that part is not fine, I should be able to buy the parts I can afford from racing). I personally think a career-based progression is better, you can buy a super expensive car and upgrade it to be completely bonkers, but you cannot race it in career mode until you've completed the lower level series first, and maybe do something similar to Gran Turismo with the licenses that prove you are actually skilled enough to race in higher series.
"A mindless grind" Very well put within context. I totally agree with Nick. There needs to be a well thought out progression system, where car upgrades is not tied to it at all. These videos on having to level each car to 50 before freedom is found has me completely disinterested in buying FM this year.
Ok ok so let me get this straight. Racing, the thing that people do in racing games, is a mindless grind despite the fact that the events are properly interesting now, and it judges you on a corner to corner basis, forcing you to actually drive well, and NOW it's a mindless grind because you have to actually play the game and not just shove +800hp into every car. Good to know you know nothing about racing/game development/progression in racing games
@Rajin0114 Wow kid you really typed all of that and what was the point? Nobody is judging the new system of points for racing. It's the AMOUNT of time it takes for each car. Microsoft has been doing this for the lady 3 forza games, artificially extend playtime by locking things behind walls you can only get by "playing a lot". It goes right into their monthly subscription model.
@@Rajin0114 I'm ok with grind and skill driving point. What is not ok is to not able to upgrade car the way we want. I think this system force player to play the game how they want, not how we want.
@@Rajin0114dude some people actually work full time and just want to hop on and race an 800hp MX5 around the Nurburgring for 15 mins. I don’t want to have to spend HOURS trying to get a fucking wide body for an RX7 or M3
like it, you actually have to work for progression instead of being handed every single thing like fh5 or fm7, this will for sure humble all the fh5 guys that get 20 gifted cars everyday lol
I like that one of the reveals went in-depth about how they’ve revolutionized and rebuilt cosmetic customization only for us to not see 70% (or probably even more) of it. I really can’t wrap my head around how this came to be the system they went with. It’s about a 5:1 ratio of people who hate this system to people who like the idea. So hopefully, for once, the developers listen.
Turn10 devs haven't listened in over a decade. You know that joke/gif/meme where the fax comes in, prints out, and falls right in the shredder? That's how I imagine customer feedback is handled at Trun10
@@tobiasrydholm6589 Mate, the system is shit, end of story. Not everyone on the planet wanrs to put hundreds of hours in to upgrade their favourite cars and customise them. There's a massive difference between grinding in a game, and having progression in a game.
to me the easiest (by that i mean the one that will require less changes) fix would be to remove the level restrictions for upgrades. I'm fine with limited car points, but give us the option to upgrade the cars the way we want
Yes for example some might go for say some fatter tyres and some might go for a race exhaust or something for more power instead but both same level type thing
Perhaps they should have a separate progression system for story mode and every other mode. Cars will still carry over from story mode to free play and vice versa, but the new progression system should be locked to the story mode, whereas free play should use a system more akin to what Forza has been doing so far, and upgrades stay locked to each
I think the credit system was ideal for the mass majority. I want to grind races and earn money, then spend it upgrading whatever car with whatever parts that I can afford. If I can’t afford what I want, i ll go race some more with what I’ve got in hopes to earn more credits. I like drifting in the Motorsport games and that involves just using random cars in order to make it more fun and unique. I don’t want to have to spend 6 hours of slowish, unenjoyable racing in order to switch between 2 cars… I usually have 10-12 drift cars I use just because they’re fun.
The new upgrade/modification system is truly a massive let down and unless heavily revised or gotten rid of all together, I won’t be purchasing the game. I feel a lot of others may agree
I hate how the cosmetic customization is the same as the last like 5 forza games. Cars that are returning from previous games, have no new customization.
This has to be one of my favorite videos regarding forza motorsport, honesty instead of hype. constructive criticism and feedback is exactly what this franchise needs. More videos like this please!
They wont listen ... when has game devs ever given a fuck about community opinion and feedback lmao. Especially not tripple a titles that are overhyped beyond so people dont even care about criticism. And its live service aswell. So they can always "fix it" in the future. Which gives you incomplete dogshit games like cyberpunk, halo infinite and all the nfs games since 2015
Constructive of what? As much i like Nick content i honestly think his "rant" video is just hurting Forza more and more. Kinda like whinny COD youtubers which is pathetic !!
The systhem is problematic for everyone there is something bigger behind it this is artificial inflation of gameplay so that can get many playing hours on gamepass wich in turn makes them a shit ton of money And instead of taking mechanics like these away they are gonne implement them more if they are very succesfull wich could ruin some future games aswell .. its not good for gaming or games its notbgood for me and you ist only good for microsoft ... its the whole reason i never liked the gamepass construction from microsoft from the very beginning
@@runninginthe90s75 I dont want to hurt your feelings but I completely disagree with that take. I wouldn't call this a rant video, this is more so nick pointing out an obvious flaw, that is a misinterpretation of what we asked for, we wanted progression, as in starting the game in a slow grocery getter and only at the end of the game do we get meta cars. but it was unfortunately misunderstood and they gave us this, a similar thing happened where we asked for car parts to fall off, but instead they just said "we made the scratches on your car look even better." Also, on a side note, those COD rant videos are more needed than ever, I know they can be toxic, but activison needs to listen to the community.
Just separate the amount of customization b/w career and free play/online. So whenever you just wanna play multiplayer with no restrictions on the cars you could do that, or if you want to try out some cars in free play you could customize them however you please. This would honestly be much better and i think easier to implement (idk maybe)
Yes but people are complaining that the CAREER progression is bad, isn't true. What's actually happening is gamers are so entitled that anything that isn't 100% their taste is trash
They want you to grind it makes them money threw gamepass only microsoft benefits from it tho ... they will pull this same stunt on other games aswell just to make more money off gamepass this will water down gaming as a whole and make microsoft games long tedious grinds
@@Rajin0114 thats not it and you know it you need to stop behaving like a toddler who's candy got taken away because he's to fat stop the kicking and screaming .... in your mind if its says forza its automaticly perfect 🤣🤣🤣🤣
To be honest a better system would be like you get limit on how much you can upgrade your car based on the PI, but you can use all of the parts for each car. For example your car starts at 550 PI and at the start you can upgrade to 570, then every level gives you higher ceiling and room for upgrades. This would actually make you creativly use all of the upgrades, even those which reduce your PI.
i disagree, it is a similar problem to the already established system where you cannot upgrade your car to the limit when you get a new car, car upgrades should not be directly linked to car level
Thats a dumb idea . If I have the money I should be allowed to max upgrade and use that car in races that are in that class , no one had issues with the way FM2 was it was perfect . what you do is get rid of Storefronts and only have the auction house with no limits on what a person can set the buy out at , then some noob cant just buy a tune for 10k they would be forced to acutely play the game to earn enough money to buy a car that is setup or would have to learn how to upgrade and set it up themself , and they should stop just giving cars away and get rid of paid downloadable content and make it so people had to win whole series before they could get a prize car. and make the races restricted by car class not division .
No that would suck just as bad is this system , what they need to do is get rid of the store fronts so people cant buy cheap setups and only have the auction with no limits on how much one can ask for the car , that way to be able to afford a car that can win races you would have to earn the credits. Plus they need to do away with the dumb woke Traded Idea of making it so a person who cant see can just let the car drive itself , Woke Tardism should have no place in a game
So basically the upgrades are like a RPG where you level up a character but instead it's a car. They said it was more sticking with the cars you like instead of just grabbing a whole bunch of random cars
I would be fine with having to unlock upgrades if it wasn’t on every individual car. If I full unlock upgrades on the 850r and I buy another one, I shouldn’t have to grind it out again
Yah that’s pretty annoying, except it probably won’t be too much of an issue for duplicates since I can just have multiple tunes and builds for the same car anyways.
I totally agree with your take on having an uncapped car level, just so you can show off your time and progression with that particular car. I have always looked at the mileage on my favorite cars just to see how much I have driven them, that's why I love that the odometers in most of the cars in FM7 show the actual mileage of the car.
I say that they can reach a good middle ground if they remove unlocks completely and the only limiting factor is how many car points you have based on your car level
Curious, the one thing people complained about the most about Forza Horizon was that it just gave you stuff for free way too often. Now people are complaining that they have to actually race, in a racing game, to get the stuff they want. I for one miss the old days when you have to race for hours to save up enough to buy that one car you wanted or to upgrade your car.
As someone who only gets to game on weekends, I really hate this new upgrade/progression system.... As someone who likes customizing my own way and just earning money (when it's done right like FM4) I still hate this new progression system.
I really hope they back track on this system. Everyone doesn't have time to grind every game for hours on end, especially with so many other games to play.
They wont because they want you to grind so they can say they have a lot of gamplay hours on gamepass its artificial inflation so they can make a shit ton of money .... and their gonne do this to more games yeah this story is bigger then forza alone
I mean level 1 you have enough mods to get your car to the top of the class system so you'll always be competitive with whatever car you want to choose. It's not horizon where you want to build a 900hp civic hatchback because it's going to suck on the track and any wider, purpose built supercar will destroy it on the track. Idk I'd have to see how quick the progression is too to see if it's actually obnoxious or not. This guy hit level 50 on multiple cars with a test build tho.
@@user-lq6vm8yt4h I've never driven every car in any forza game. for any given forza title I have 1-3 cars per rank D-C-B-A-S and they're never tuned to use every available mod. In most cases I wouldn't need to level up the car at all because the mods available at level 1 would be enough to bump me to the top limit of the rank. like use some common sense when thinking about it instead of going chicken little mode. Yea it's fun to throw a i4 turbo in a p50, but it's completely useless in a race lol. Horizon is the playground, motorsport is for racing.
@@mervunit thats you playing not millions of others most people on games like this collectbthe cars including the parts so talking about chicken little look in the mirror
In my opinion the worst is that if you buy a duplicate you have to go through level 50 again cause tha car levels are going to be a problem for normal cars. Race cars wont have the same problem cause they are already upgraded
nah, unless it gets toned down… it should just stay in fh5… anti lag is so agressive (not saying it shouldn’t be) but there should be an option in tuning or something that lets you dial down how much anti lag your gonna get… ( if that makes sense 😆 )
So basically choosing cars is gonna be like choosing guns on Call of Duty where you have "META" cars and everyone drives those meta cars until an update then another meta car becomes OP
I do still feel like the unlock system should be there, but per car is crazy(left a comment on the last video not realizing that it was per car). I feel it should use player level instead of individual car level and the ordering of the upgrades needs reworked. Stuff like widebodies should be one of the first things you get as it serves a purely cosmetic, most of the time, purpose for the car.
This honestly gives me vibes of what the older need for speed games were like. I remember in Carbon if you conquered a territory or win a race, you got certain paints, upgrades, or even whole cars!
The ballast upgrade doesnt only increase your car's weight, its makes your weight distribution more even, the honda started with 62/38 and with the extra heavy ballast it reaches 53/47 which should make the car drive better in the corners
As someone who likes the game for racing, I value the painters providing og race liveries for every car. Also when I bought my e30, I bought brand new race brakes and semi slicks immediately.. didn't even have to drive it on a track to buy upgrade parts
Im a college student and trying to already balance school, work, and trying to have a normal life. I dont want to have to spend 3 hours out of my day maxing out a miata just to customize it the way i want. Doesn't help when im eying the idea of creating a forza league at the same time...
tbh, i don't mind the system in some aspects but with the entire level to unlock part is just a nightmare if you are someone with limited time, one way that i personally think would be better was the change that HoshiKoshi mentioned in his review of FM8 of Keep the points aspect but remove the level caps so that you still have to be mindful of what parts you get but you have free range on parts rather than being packaged into a box of bricks with no room to improve its boat level steering but who knows what T10 will do, just gonna have to wait for October
Hi Nick, I totally agree with you on the upgrade system being ridiculous and your suggestions for improvements made a lot of sense. Let's hope the Devs. do something about it sooner rather than later.
Still can't change the look of the exhaust outside of some wide body kits and rear bumpers that have different exhausts, trying to fix a part of the game that wasn't broken with the car upgrade system because they don't understand why people don't like the progression in the last few Forza games, AI scaling difficulty is awful in FH5 so no doubt it will be the same in this game.
I really like the idea for car levels and restrictions, Forza constantly makes cars feel worthless and slow by giving you supercars off the bat and allowing you to upgrade any car to max straight away. It ruins the special feeling of getting a car and slowly making it faster over time and seeing the gradual improvement of this car you've been driving for ages. hate how Forza has handled it for years and glad its changing.
As a part of the drift community i’m absolutely fuming at this leveling system, us drifters who have been apart of the community since the earliest days of forza now have to grind to perfect our drift build? that’s just dumb
Yeah... I think the best option would be to actually balance the credits system. They don't want you to be able to just go right up to the max level, so make upgrades cost an amount of money that matters. That way you have to actually budget without things just being given to you like crazy.
One thing I've always liked over gran turismo is the upgrades being freely done only limited by class. I don't know why turn 10 would suddenly want to be like GT. what I like with GT over forza is more choice of car or least more lower end options ie on GT7 or earlier game I had a Peugeot 107 which was a car I owned in real life and while you couldn't just freely upgrade, it was fun to race and upgrade what you couldn't really do in real life due to actually cost/value for money. Turn 10 needs to include more average joe cars more so modern ones. I own a modern scirocco which is a 1. 4, but while there is a scirocco in horizon 5, it's the R. Be nice for lesser versions to be include too. GT has a toyota yaris, forza doesn't. Just the little things that make the challenging more fun and interesting
@@Twisted_Knob it is indeed. You gotta wait till the 10th though. I downloaded it and almost got sucked in with the " pay now play now " On game pass. Watched this video and thought nah ill just wait
Let me ask everyone a question would you rather drive in a bright and colorful Hawaiian beaches in the option to drive 15 different story missions with many different things to do or drive an MX five for three hours just to put a body kit on it and take a picture and then never use it again i’m gonna go with Hawaii.
Another thing to mention is with the new upgrade system with roughly 500 cars in the game at launch and 3 hours to get ONE to level 50 means if you want upgrade every car in the game with no restrictions you'd need to spend a minimum of 1,500 hours only levelling cars and that doesn't even account for DLC cars in the future.
Agree 1000%. Not just a 100%. I guess "bragging rights" are enough to warrant a grind without basically kicking everyone who can't grind in their parts. Just have everything unlocked right away or at level 20~25 to "get a feel for the car"
This seems more like a "how do we get people to keep playing this game for hundreds of hours so they keep buying our DLCs over the next 2 years" mechanic rather than "we wanted to give people meaningful progression". Sick of devs in general trying to add these time sinks to games thinking it makes them more engaging or rewarding. It's a racing game, we want to race and modify our cars and tune and paint them, not idle our systems for hundreds of hours so we can unlock upgrades on 15% of the available cars. Guess I'll stick to F7 and FH5 until I can grab this on deep discount.
I honestly think this system could be easily fixed with one tiny change. I like the idea of having the separate currency for upgrades and purchasing vehicles, but every upgrade needs to be instantly available. With this you can keep gaining 400 car points or whatever every level up on your car (so you actually do have to work a little for race upgrades) but don’t lock basic customization behind 3 hours of gameplay. Edit: this is basically what was said at the end of the video but my point still stands. An unlimited level cap would be cool too
@@tjrox03 I don't think you realize the ways this system prevents people from playing the game. For a lot of people Forza was a sandbox game where you could try lots of things. That's not possible anymore unless you are willing to drive in circles for a few hours before you can actually do what you want. Second many people (me included) drive almost exclusively in league races. A group of people organize a series with 6-12 cars that are tested and balanced together. If one car is too strong it can be given a PI penalty. Ideally several people upgrade all the cars and test them to make sure they both fit the series and and are not too strong or weak. The car leveling system requires each person doing this testing to sink 2-3 hours per car before they can even start the work of testing the cars. This is not feasible. I think they just need to make free play and custom online lobbies exempt from the car leveling system. You can have the progression in career or public online, but don't prevent people from playing the game in other ways.
honestly, i think this is an outcome of modern games being so grand and ambitious, they don't have community feedback during development. I think we need more smaller scale but highly detailed and handcrafted games rather than these modern "blockbusters."
Its not about community feedback they want you to grind because it gives them a shit ton of playing hours on gamepass wich equals money .... and if succesfull they will implement grindy mechanics like these in many more games wich is kinda gonne ruin gaming in general ... comes down to the fact its good for nobody but microsoft
@Rajin0114 there's nothing meaningful with this system. It is purely a grind meant to artificially inflate play time, this is a gamepass game, its not going to make money on sales, player engagement is what's important to them and this system does that. The problem is I don't see many people sticking around too long and I honestly hope they don't.
And what I mean by feedback is, if they could have told us the plans for this new system when it was greenlit during development, so that we could have said, hold on, this isn't what we asked for, we might have been to vague, we wanted this instead: I think I can speak of behalf of everyone here: WE WANT EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN FM4 IN FM8 Or just a fm4 remake at this point honestly. A similar misunderstanding from the developers for fm8 is that, we asked for bumpers and fenders etc, to sometimes fall off in crashes, but instead they showed off "we made the scratches in your paint better than ever, built from the ground up" Community feedback during development. Let us know what your plans are when they get set into place. Transparency to get people hyped for new systems, community interaction (and good press) and a level of mutual trust. Playground has done this much better than turn 10. And let's be real, even if this game sucks, fh6 is probably coming out 2024.
@JadenWeeks it would be nice but that's not how game development works. Some people might like this system, I think most won't, but in the larger scheme of things they needed a hook for sustainability. So far this system only affects upgrades, if you're someone who like spec racing or usually use only a few vehicles this won't be so bad. But for people that want a lot of cars and be able to modify them its going to take a lot of time.
If you want two versions of the same car for different uses, just create a tune file for each version and load that tune. No need to own copies of the same car.
Imagine wanting to do a replica livery for a car with a wide body kit, and you have to spend 3 hours driving it around before you can get started... This system is so bad.
I really hope the devs listen to the community (actually LISTEN) and fix this progression and car-level system if they wish to snag and keep a new player base and keep their current players.
@@Sharcukyeah, because people like you guys who have hours to grind for some specific car have no life. You aren’t exactly the bulk of the fan base and population of this games users.
The "community" are a bunch of people with knee jerk reactions who know nothing about game development. I don't have a problem with this video, I have a problem with the comments in it.
The ideal would have been to put the upgrades and XP in a character profile where upon reaching X level you unlock Y upgrades (similar to GT7 with the engine swaps that requires a certain level of collecting) instead of being all the lvl thing per single car.
I like the car level thing. It makes it so that you have to really work your car from the ground up instead of just buying it and installing all the upgrades and never actually having any reason to drive it stock or with light upgrades. I'm a sucker for progression.
I agree, in classic FM fashion too we will be inundated with millions of credits at the start for being a long time forza player, takes thr fun out of earning and upgrading a bit.
As a tuner I need the availability of every part in order to find the best builds and as a replica painter need parts available to properly replicate the livery’s. For someone like me that has a full time job and family, This is going to suck balls.!
Imagine going into a tire shop saying you wanted the best slicks they have and being DENIED because you haven’t driven this car for two hours yet EVEN THOUGH you’re one of the top in the world and have already maxed out hundreds of other cars. This is ridiculous
If they don't change the car progression system before the game comes out, then it just shows how much Turn 10 doesn't listen to their community, unlike Playground Games who has been killing it as of late and are truly embracing the community and has me genuinely excited for what they will do for the rest of FH5s lifespan and even FH6. Come on Turn 10, it doesn't take much to change your system. It isn't entirely bad, just certain aspects.
@@user-lq6vm8yt4h You are entitled to your opinion, but I have been someone who grew up with an Xbox since I was 5 or 6, so Forza and a myriad of rally and offroad games are what captured my attention throughout my life. Forza has its flaws, but Gran Turismo is absolutely not perfect either. They both offer different strokes for different folks, and while this progression system isn't good, I think everything else looks pretty spot on, and you cannot say that GT is better without having even played this Forza game. Oh and also there is no open world Gran Turismo game soo... that comparison doesn't work when you include Horizon, which is also a very flawed game but I enjoy it and have enjoyed the Horizon series since FH2. I don't care which is better. I just want good games. Good games make good competition, competition makes innovation, innovation means everyone wins because everyone can have a fun game for whatever platform they play on. Could absolutely give less than half a shit from a rats ass about whether Forza or GT is better. Forza is better for me and that's all that matters. Also it wouldn't take much to change the progression system. All they literally have to do is remove the level requirements for upgrade parts. It is just a parameter that is part of the entire leveling system as a whole so it shouldn't be that hard to remove, and then the car points system stays. It really wouldn't take much.
i like this progression but i think its a little *too* tedious. horizon and the crew make unlocking things really easy, and while i do want somewhat of a challenge, spending 3 hours driving a shitbox isnt what i really meant
i mean people were complaining about forza getting boring because the progression is way too fast, so idk what people are complaining about how theres a car level system
Yea this game sucks already. Remember when Forza Horizon 1 had an actual story with characters that didnt praise you for eveything and talked trash to you. Had rags to riches progression. Those were the days
Some simple solution they could do is: No.1 Make leveling your car take alot quicker maybe 40min - 1 hour to reach level 50. No.2 make leveling cars universal across multiple copys of that car, for instance you can have a level 50 r32 that u use for racing and the ability to buy, from the autoshop, a level 50 r32 that u can spec for drifting. No.3 maybe you could make car credits universal and use them to buy levels for a car so if you saved up you could buy a car and use the credits to fully upgrade the car to level 50 immediately and use normal credit for buying upgrades like we always have.
I've seen quite a few of your videos for FH5, and this one is my favorite. I like the auto-driving reveal at 12:50. You mentioned that at the right time, and it made an effective point.
I think a better progression system would involve discounts on upgrades by leveling up a car, or maybe some character cosmetics locked by a car level. Either way the way they tried doing the upgrade system is dog poo.
How do we know what the events are going to be like, and he said that the cars may became discounted so may be the parts will as well. We are jumping to conclusions here. That’s like a detective saying the first person he interviews is the one to be arrested and tried
I remember getting into Forza when 3 came out, and i loved that progression. they could have lowered the credits earned per race, and solved the issues entirely. "Hey you want to move to the professional races? race a lot, win a lot, and then you can afford it." not, "You are the best racer we've ever seen, but unfortunately you don't have enough companion points to upgrade yet. spend some more time with this specific car, to upgrade, this specific car. so that one day, you too can do it all over again when you buy a second one for a fun build."
I like the new leveling system I always like getting familiar with how a car drives stock which is normally when cars feel unique before you start tossing in weight reduction and engine swaps and awd that’ll start making it feel similar to other cars
i don’t mind it tbh, ive played forza games since fm2 and i’ve always gotten bored of cars quickly when im able to just immediately slam every single upgrade into them from the get go. i’m excited to try this new idea out and see if i like it in practice the same as i do in theory. imo it sounds like it gives you a greater bond with the car and makes everyone’s playthrough different!
I think that this upgrade system is fine tbh. Having something to work toward is always a benefit plus it will make your vehicles feel like YOUR vehicles. Everything is far too easy to get ahold of in the horizon games and Ive felt that way for years. Nothing has any significance to it.
They are too easy in horizon games, I can agree to that. But this restricts so heavily what you can do with them. I’m starting college and I simply won’t have enough time to play to unlock a car unless I do it over the span of a month. That is awful. They don’t need to make upgrading cars impossible, they just needed to make credits harder to earn and start you out in a lower class car like a Honda fit.
I think this a welcome change. Having rhe ability to just upgrade every car right off the bat if you have the credits removes any sense of achievement and ultimately becomes an empty boring process. I like the idea of having to grind and earn an upgrades slowly and meaningfully. It will make you have more of a connection to the car. One thing i wish they added is the same thing from Street Rod frok the 90s where you could look for second hand parts in the newspaper and use those until you could afford more expensive parts
Forza customization sucks in general though, only thing about Forza's customization is the livery editor - otherwise it has most stuff from past Forza games, though there has been some new stuff like Anti Lag
It's been improving a lot with the aftermarket body kits, parts, and wheels they've been adding recently. Still not amazing, though. They have a lot of cool wheels in the game, but the wheel specs are literal ass, so I never really even run them
100% on point if there is one thing they need to change ASAP but probably wont, would be car points being spent how USERS see fit not how the game wants it to be. This would make it a lot more enjoyable and allow people to experiment with different cars instead of obsessing over just one or two. Not carrying car levels over to the same models is just dumb.
Agree 100% - Love the idea of progression but not with this much restriction. Perhaps if you just unlocked 'upgrade tokens' but all upgrades were open, or unlock by class and/or car type, maybe? Or do this ONLY in career mode (and maybe a multiplayer-career mode). I just want to tune cars to the top of a class and race my mates, or do build challenges where we agree a car and a target class. To force everyone through this is ridiculous and they'll deserve the fury coming their way. They have taken the 'CarPG' idea way to far here!
I'm probably in the minority but I like this new system. It seems very rpg like, which really gives you a sense of accomplishment by the time you put into it. While I understand the plight of the community, I hope there's a way to keep this system but also give something that the community will like. Maybe the option to switch between the 2.
The problem is that there is no end game. You went from having everything available almost immediately to nearly everything is locked no matter how much you play. I can't figure out an iteration of car leveling that allows people to do league racing. The only way I have played Forza games since Forza 2 is with a group of people that setup a series like historic trans am (late 60s muscle cars), Historic trans am 2 liter (BMW 2002, Datsun 510, etc), or Touring car (modern hot hatches and sedans). Each of these series can have around 6-10 cars available to choose from. In each of these series the organizers have to upgrade all of the cars and test them to make sure they fit in the series and aren't too strong or too weak. Sometimes we also apply our own balancing limiting some cars PI if they are too strong. This will be impossible to do because of car leveling. If you were to try to do a 10 car series, the people balancing the car would each have to spend 2.5*10 = 25 hours of time mindlessly grinding before they could even start the work of balancing the series. Then you have to do this every 1-2 months for the next series.
I don't think people disagree with the bones of the new system. They just want it tweaked. Also being RPG like isn't always good. There's a lot of mindless grinding in many RPG games too.
I’m still excited for the new progression system. I only drive a small handful of cars anyway when I play forza and I love the thought of making a car yours and sticking with a car you feel is more built by you.
I feel the same other than it doesn’t follow over to the same car which makes no sense. I think the problem is with content creators realising they will have to put the work in and play the game to make the content
@@73rmin8r more generic, everyone has access to the same stuff at the same time and cash is the only factor, while this requires you to earn and make more choices and that makes it more individually built by you. i get what they're saying and i kinda agree, i don't like the level limits as much, but i do like the concept overall.
@@kellynnd5361 fair enough. I can't wrap my head around that mentality at all personally. It just makes me resent the game having carrots dangled in front of me for things that I didn't use to have to jump through hoops for. Also having the freedom to do whatever you wanted to the car immediately seems to me like it would give you more choices than being drip fed a part every once and a while. Unless you cynically just go look up the meta on how to modify it perfectly there'd be more permutations of the same car that people would be using, and that'd lead to them being more individual.
I’m very happy about this, it will make upgrading a car satisfying. Kinda ridiculous how on Forza Horizon you could hop on and in 10mins have an X class Bugatti
Another way to have a leveling system would be to lock you behind classes kinda like the Hot Wheel expansion or iRacing, and the more you progress in the game, the more you can get in the big toy playground
I think the next FM game should be about starting a new racing team from the ground up. Why not start off in your garage with a shitbox and eventually earn enough money and xp to have a fully fledged team that competes in all the different categories? Something like GRID but you are the manager, you decide the direction. You can slowly upgrade your “garage” to unlock simple upgrades like weight reduction or small engine mods or more extreme like wide body kits and better suspension upgrades that require more expertise to install. This would give the game some actual progression, something we all want.
Leveling up the car in order to unlock custimization is just plain stupid. Forza Motorsport is a racing sim, last time I checked, drivers don't have to level up their cars before they modify them...... I'm already hating this game
Imagine wanting to enter a race on a track irl and everyone is using upgraded tuned cars but you still have to drive 3 hours with a stock car to be able to install something :s
I’ll probably enjoy the upgrade progression system. It will force me to be more selective when Choosing, bond with the cars more and appreciate them rather than having too many options. I understand why people don’t like this but I’m more interested in the feel of the cars and the game in general. It’s not been great since FM4.
This is perfect. I’m Forza you get so many cars it becomes a bit overwhelming on which ones to upgrade, now it makes it so you’re rewarded for driving the car. I like it!
People just want everything for free and fast which made FH5 ultra boring. In the crew 2 I had to at least grind to get cars and be happy about it. Motorsport should be game about racing, going for half sim at least and make you feel rewarded. Then people say "but i don't have time to play games" - then don't play lol. Ppl really annoying these days, crying crying crying
@@Slowerinowhen you own over 1000 games do you really believe one which makes you do mindless grind via the car auto driving for you the one you’ll spend your time on? Nope. There’s better racers out there. GT7, the crew motorfest (which is a car MMO so grinding is the staple) ACC (a real driving simulator with all parts available from the start)
@@Slowerino motorsport should be about racing and upgrading car parts which you need immediately not grind for it. You want a car MMO play the crew games. You want a real sim racer without ridiculous gimmicks then play assetto corsa.
Wheel spacers need to immediately come back. Wheels need to be sorted a different way than alphabetically. When painting or customizing your car the screen needs to be brighter. Just a few things.
If they are making the car upgrades level based per car they better make it to where that single car will be able to race in 80 percent of the races available and get xp at a reasonable rate or this won't work. People will just simply buy a faster or better performing car and never feel the need to upgrade anything. Which will get boring.
I actually think that a separate reward system based on car manufacturer affinity would be a nice idea. You already drive a certain car from said brand name, and therefor you are building up fame (or respect) to them. To which they should reward you for continuously driving their cars. It makes me think of FM4's Car Brand affinity level. One where you even could get discounts to car parts, instead of what is going on now.
*Update: Oh wow. I did not think I’d receive so many likes in a short time. Let alone the blessing by the Spoon Man himself.
Thank you so much, everyone.
i absolutely loved that system, man what i would give to have it in this game.
Yeah, but instead of 100% discount you can get instead of some random tuner/performance brand, you get a cheaper and more powerful (or either more poweful/cheaper) part from the main brand. Not a perfect idea but it's an idea, definitley better than the grinding you have to do to just get a small weight reduction.
I am able to confirm that this exact system will be in forza Motorsport
Yea, except it's for each individual car, that's the problem.
FM4 Brand Affinity was so good
All my excitement built from waiting for 6 years, shattered by one video.
Don’t let a video influence you from trying it out your self
hey, keep your head up high, the game will still be fun in most ways, even if this one system makes it flawed.
Edit: save yourself some brain cells and dont fall too deep into this all over the place reply section.
@@eddi3401 I'd say if the system was altered, we'd buy it but until then, absolutely not.
@@JadenWeekspersonally, I'm not putting up with a mediocre product, even if they update it later
That's even not a demo, it's an extremely closed build with not even 2% of all the content of the game. Wait for the release, this game build have been given to content creator only for the pure gameplay and feeling and nothing else
This is the death to sharing builds. RIP to the guys and girls who made all awesome build/tunes
Holy overreaction
Yeah, it's just gonna make it a waaaay more annoying process than it was before.
@@RiskninjaYTexplain how it’s an overreaction? It’s just a statement lol
@Riskninjayt The original comment is nowhere near an overreaction, infact I'd say it's valid.
@@callumstuart9378i forgot about that, how will you download tunes?
They could have overhauled other aspects of the game like visual customization for Forza aero, or exhaust tip customization. Instead, the developers decided to overhaul how you upgrade your car, which was not a major issue in previous Forza games. Hopefully they address this, given the amount of feedback they have gotten.
Disagree, this stops idiots jumping in say a 60's Fiat and making it 4 wheel drive and 1000bhp, ruining times leaderboard times and ruining the online side of the game. Hopefully will stop that Don Small Dong (or whatever his name is) from just building hundreds of overpowered 4wd and flooding the game with them. Hopefully the Leaderboards will have the best drivers at the top and not some glitchy twat who ruins online for everyone
Well, there are valid complaint about having no sense of progression in Forza games,which I think is a more fundamental issue to the feel of the game, than customization. So tackling that should have been a good thing, yet they only made it far WORSE.
'Soo we ruined the progression by overdosing wheelspins and totally devaluing money and cars thus personal attachment to individual cars. Dumb addict consumers finally realised that while free stuff now may be hype, it makes everything in the longrun feel hollow and they started to complain. How do we solve this?
Let's gate uprgades behind a haphazardly thrown together RPG grind that makes no sense in a racing game to mess that up too and call it PrOgRrEsSiOn!'
Genius Forza, genius -.-"
Not a real Forza player, only picked up Horizon 4 a month ago, and watched some stuff both Horizon and Morotsport, so can't really go in-depth, but this lack of sense of progress was a big issue for me. I literally Alt+F4-d out when I saw how low the McLaren F1's pricetag was. Felt like the game is insulting a piece of history. And it's an issue generally true, just the F1 was personal for me.
Personal background aside, I think they should've looked at Racedriver Grid (the good old 2008 one) for inspiration, that game had amazing progression fitting for Motorsport's track racing setting.
You started out as a hired driver to collect enough money to restore an old mustang and start your racing garage/stable. You could unlock sponsorship deals, by winnig new events and those sponsors granted you extra income on races by meeting their conditions. Also the events were divided into 3 regions (USA, Euro and Japan) and completing them gave reputation to unlock higher tiers and the eventual global event list with world tour tournaments. It started slow, but revved up, and you could turn your garage into a true juggernaut by the endgame. It just felt like a truly rewarding adventure.
Now if we don't want to rip off Grid wholesale, pillars for a similar model are already in Horizon 4 with the influence levels for separate disciplines. Why not build more on those and fine-tune the overbearing wheelspins around them?
Just spitballing, tone down the cash and car rewards on wheelspins by a lot for start. Have a reputation bar with manufacturers and disciplines and scrap this stupid car point BS. As you level up certain disciplines it increases the cash payout in doing those kinds of events. The real collector's cars and high-end track-toys should be gated behind reputation with the manufacturer. As you level up, the wheelspins slowly change also for more cars and phase out the small cash rewards.
It's all about that underdog story. Make it feel like you started from nothing, worked for it, and earned your hundred+ car dream garage. If you spin or buy a new car in the first 10 hours, make it feel like an event, that really opened up doors, makes you strategize your career. But also we don't want the feel of wasted wheelspin in the late-game with stupid hats and chumchange. Flat wheelspin RNG is the biggest bullshit, takes the sense of achievemnt away from the early game, and has tons of redundant meaningless stuff by the end.
The huge collection is part of Forza's DNA, but make it feel like an adventure getting to that point.
We have been hoping they address the lack of good visual customization for years now. We have gotten a few things here and there but it has mostly been largely ignored.
@@DarkestVibez Don't know who "we" is. Have been playing Forza from day one and visual customisation is at the bottom of the list. Getting the online racing balanced and the in game physics improved is at the top. If you want pretty visual customisation then NFS is probably more your thing. Most Motorsports players want good fair racing with no overpowered 4wd abominations on the track
@andrewharrington6953 or, they could just limit unrealistic upgrade paths like your example.
I miss the early forza motorsport leveling system, it was based on manufactures, when the manufacture was leveled up you got a 100% discount on the parts.
Which is not realistic. This system will really separate the enthusiasts from the casual player. And i love that. It will really allow us more serious players with proper rigs to match up with others like us.
@@ritter_cracker okay shill.
@@ritter_cracker Oh, go play Asetto Corsa. That way, you can get spanked by some _actual_ elitists.
@@NaruSanavai That's pretty regular for me already. xD
I think a good middle ground would be having car upgrades start off as unlocked, but very expensive, and as you level up the car, the upgrades get progressively discounted to reasonable levels. That way all the work you put into the game in general can still benefit any car, and you can choose to fully upgrade any car instantly, but you're still incentivized to level up the particular car you want to modify. I also like the idea of something like Horizon's car mastery type bonuses being applied to cars as they're leveled up as an additional incentive that doesn't affect the actual driving experience.
Great idea actually your a better dev than the team themself
this would be super cool tbh
This is it.
I wanted to write exect same thing, but with addition of manufactures levels, that would also get you a discount on car parts. Because as in real life some cars share the same parts.
A good solution but your missing a point here they want you to grind so that gamepass gets many playing hours on it wich equals a shitload of money from and for investers .
They will very likely implement mechanics like these in other games to just to artificially inflate those hours wich is gonne ruin many games in the future aswell thays why i already didnt like gamepass from the very beginning because of this business model they introduced on top of that there is a few more problems with it like the fact you dont own games anymore or the problem with some devs not getting paid enough and many more.problems .
This only is good for microsoft not for gaming not for games not for the devs not for you and me and microsoft will be swimming in everbodies money while we get bad games
I just wanna upgrade my car, man. I dont want to grind
wait until you figure out that’s how it work irl 😂
@@konradjaworski3222 but this is a game, not real life. And you don't need to drive car for 3 hours before you can upgrade it irl
@@Glegh yes you do lmao that’s how a track day works, you don’t just do 2 laps and know exactly what you need to replace 💀
@konradjaworski3222 the whole point of this game is to have fun and be able to do what you want WHEN you want, its not a sim. And it's most definitely not real life
@@konradjaworski3222 so let's say i want to buy a turbo for my car. I just go out and buy it, I dont make sure my car is the correct level
"I want those grippy tires" "no you are not level 20", sounds like mobile game ads 😂😂
"Unfortunately for you, I have 10 million power, so I can procure myself the SRT Tomahawk X"
@@falcongamer58 The sad reality of 6 years of development all for essentially nothing...
@@falcongamer58 ah man that's not fair
@@callumstuart9378 just like Halo Infinite
Was super excited and was seriously considering getting the deluxe or premium or what ever the top shelf game package is called, but now I think I'll just play it on gamepass, I feel after the initial excitement, the grind is going to become too tedious to warrant much play time.
Grind as in enjoying racing lol got it
@@WinterSauce13 if your not first your last yo
^drives away*
The video is to old to be about the new forza motorsport dude..
Cars level up fast actually, most cups on career mode focus on 3 cars you choose one and you play the whole cup with it, by the time you finish the 5 races the cars is already like level 25, the better you drive the more xp it gets, you also can go to free play and let the AI drive and it will level up. I like the custom way as it really makes you play with the car and if you Jim straight to online you will be playing against other players that most probably have the same car level making it mor fair playing if you trying to show that you drive good instead of winning over the rest just because your cars is top level while the rest isn’t. It is just like if the FIA where applying their rules here if you think about it.
What about account based leveling? That you would have to progress through races to get to level 50 as a character in the career mode. You would unlock the upgrades in the same order and within the same amount of time but for all cars. So that you need to grind an put in the hours once and then earn the freedom which makes forza special in the first place
It's important to remember that these things are not set in stone. They could easily reduce the time it takes to level up a car, change the level requirements for certain upgrades, and also fix the car duplicate issue.
But they wouldn’t put in the effort to optimize it tho
I think they major issue is them forcing you to spend your car points how they see fit (According to level) not how you would like to upgrade your car.
They wont change it because there are to many stupid people buying the game despite knowing how much it sucks . I cant believe how many stupid people are out there wasting their money on a shit game they cant return for a full refund rule #1 never waste your money on a product that people who have tested says it sucks .
Yes they are written in stone , back when FM 3 came out everyone wanted the Host player controlled public rooms back , and to get rid of the storefronts and just have the Auctions like in FM2 , Turn 10 didn't listen even though 25% of the gamers returned their games and many others stating they would never play Forza again . Turn 10 has a habit of flipping people the bird , the only way the game will change back to what it was like in FM2 is if no one buys or plays the game and almost bankrupts them . Personally I would love it if FM went tits up , for , that would straighten up other games like GT making them listen to what people want . Only an idiot would think that buying the game or downloading it free using game pass will get them to change everything that sucks about it , you dont give business a chance to make a change by buying their products like really do you actuly think they are going change something when they already got your money like how stupid are people .
A very logical and well-reasoned -factual presentation- _argument_ on the state of the current system. Whoever among the team that thought up of this system played way too many MMOs.
This is a game, after all. Besides, idk if all of his points make sense.
For instance, he said that the AI levels their car performance to yours. If that’s true, then why did he say that driving a newly bought car is “inferior” to the rest of the grid? Or was he talking about something else?
Maybe he was meaning against multiplayer grids @@fifteen8850
@@fifteen8850Ofc your opponents match the perfomance of your car. Look at what is happening in forza horizon 5, all opponents are roughly the same class as you.
@@fifteen8850he did not say " that driving a newly bought car is “inferior” to the rest of the grid"
@@fifteen8850 From what I understood, he was talking about inferior to your own tastes, for instance I prefer driving classic cars with middling upgrade levels, not too much power but lightweight, grippy and with AWD, as my favorite kind of race condition is usually wet or rally (since I want some speed but not so much that my slow reactions hamper my enjoyment too much). But if I got the game I'd be unable to race that way until I progress enough to upgrade an older cheap vehicle (that part is fine) by driving it for hours before I can finally reduce the weight, swap the drivetrain and swap the engine for one with a better power band (that part is not fine, I should be able to buy the parts I can afford from racing). I personally think a career-based progression is better, you can buy a super expensive car and upgrade it to be completely bonkers, but you cannot race it in career mode until you've completed the lower level series first, and maybe do something similar to Gran Turismo with the licenses that prove you are actually skilled enough to race in higher series.
"A mindless grind" Very well put within context. I totally agree with Nick. There needs to be a well thought out progression system, where car upgrades is not tied to it at all. These videos on having to level each car to 50 before freedom is found has me completely disinterested in buying FM this year.
Ok ok so let me get this straight. Racing, the thing that people do in racing games, is a mindless grind despite the fact that the events are properly interesting now, and it judges you on a corner to corner basis, forcing you to actually drive well, and NOW it's a mindless grind because you have to actually play the game and not just shove +800hp into every car. Good to know you know nothing about racing/game development/progression in racing games
@Rajin0114 Wow kid you really typed all of that and what was the point? Nobody is judging the new system of points for racing. It's the AMOUNT of time it takes for each car.
Microsoft has been doing this for the lady 3 forza games, artificially extend playtime by locking things behind walls you can only get by "playing a lot".
It goes right into their monthly subscription model.
@@Rajin0114Good to know you're absolutely tone deaf when it comes to what's going on, go play Asseto.
@@Rajin0114 I'm ok with grind and skill driving point. What is not ok is to not able to upgrade car the way we want. I think this system force player to play the game how they want, not how we want.
@@Rajin0114dude some people actually work full time and just want to hop on and race an 800hp MX5 around the Nurburgring for 15 mins. I don’t want to have to spend HOURS trying to get a fucking wide body for an RX7 or M3
like it, you actually have to work for progression instead of being handed every single thing like fh5 or fm7, this will for sure humble all the fh5 guys that get 20 gifted cars everyday lol
I agree it was the funnest park of older gran Turismo games.
I like that one of the reveals went in-depth about how they’ve revolutionized and rebuilt cosmetic customization only for us to not see 70% (or probably even more) of it. I really can’t wrap my head around how this came to be the system they went with. It’s about a 5:1 ratio of people who hate this system to people who like the idea. So hopefully, for once, the developers listen.
Turn10 devs haven't listened in over a decade. You know that joke/gif/meme where the fax comes in, prints out, and falls right in the shredder? That's how I imagine customer feedback is handled at Trun10
idk why they thought this upgrading system was going to be a good idea 🤦♂️
I did warn ya it was gonna be bad. Shame
@@RalcolfWolfcoon-cj2zi gonna have people grinding like it's not even a car game 💀
It is a good idea. Just because you dont like it dosen’t mean that’s the case with everyone else 😂
@@tobiasrydholm6589 Mate, the system is shit, end of story. Not everyone on the planet wanrs to put hundreds of hours in to upgrade their favourite cars and customise them. There's a massive difference between grinding in a game, and having progression in a game.
@@tobiasrydholm6589 i mean if you like spending HOURS on a game good for you but not everyone wants to do that especially on a game like this lol
honestly when i saw the aero category i was pretty disappointed, i thought they would at least add different wings and front bumpers
to me the easiest (by that i mean the one that will require less changes) fix would be to remove the level restrictions for upgrades. I'm fine with limited car points, but give us the option to upgrade the cars the way we want
Yes for example some might go for say some fatter tyres and some might go for a race exhaust or something for more power instead but both same level type thing
I understand this reasoning, but will have to see for myself how tied down the progression really is.
Maybe it is a nothingburger after all
Perhaps they should have a separate progression system for story mode and every other mode. Cars will still carry over from story mode to free play and vice versa, but the new progression system should be locked to the story mode, whereas free play should use a system more akin to what Forza has been doing so far, and upgrades stay locked to each
I think the credit system was ideal for the mass majority. I want to grind races and earn money, then spend it upgrading whatever car with whatever parts that I can afford. If I can’t afford what I want, i ll go race some more with what I’ve got in hopes to earn more credits. I like drifting in the Motorsport games and that involves just using random cars in order to make it more fun and unique. I don’t want to have to spend 6 hours of slowish, unenjoyable racing in order to switch between 2 cars… I usually have 10-12 drift cars I use just because they’re fun.
The new upgrade/modification system is truly a massive let down and unless heavily revised or gotten rid of all together, I won’t be purchasing the game. I feel a lot of others may agree
I hate how the cosmetic customization is the same as the last like 5 forza games. Cars that are returning from previous games, have no new customization.
This has to be one of my favorite videos regarding forza motorsport, honesty instead of hype. constructive criticism and feedback is exactly what this franchise needs. More videos like this please!
Depends who finds the system problematic. Imo we’ll just have to wait and see what’ll happen when the game’s out in the wild.
They wont listen ... when has game devs ever given a fuck about community opinion and feedback lmao. Especially not tripple a titles that are overhyped beyond so people dont even care about criticism. And its live service aswell. So they can always "fix it" in the future. Which gives you incomplete dogshit games like cyberpunk, halo infinite and all the nfs games since 2015
Constructive of what? As much i like Nick content i honestly think his "rant" video is just hurting Forza more and more. Kinda like whinny COD youtubers which is pathetic !!
The systhem is problematic for everyone there is something bigger behind it this is artificial inflation of gameplay so that can get many playing hours on gamepass wich in turn makes them a shit ton of money
And instead of taking mechanics like these away they are gonne implement them more if they are very succesfull wich could ruin some future games aswell .. its not good for gaming or games its notbgood for me and you ist only good for microsoft ...
its the whole reason i never liked the gamepass construction from microsoft from the very beginning
@@runninginthe90s75 I dont want to hurt your feelings but I completely disagree with that take. I wouldn't call this a rant video, this is more so nick pointing out an obvious flaw, that is a misinterpretation of what we asked for, we wanted progression, as in starting the game in a slow grocery getter and only at the end of the game do we get meta cars. but it was unfortunately misunderstood and they gave us this, a similar thing happened where we asked for car parts to fall off, but instead they just said "we made the scratches on your car look even better."
Also, on a side note, those COD rant videos are more needed than ever, I know they can be toxic, but activison needs to listen to the community.
I don’t want to grind for 150+ hours to make some cool cars 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Just separate the amount of customization b/w career and free play/online. So whenever you just wanna play multiplayer with no restrictions on the cars you could do that, or if you want to try out some cars in free play you could customize them however you please. This would honestly be much better and i think easier to implement (idk maybe)
This is a good idea and could work out I think
Yes but people are complaining that the CAREER progression is bad, isn't true. What's actually happening is gamers are so entitled that anything that isn't 100% their taste is trash
@@Rajin0114its called an opinion
They want you to grind it makes them money threw gamepass only microsoft benefits from it tho ... they will pull this same stunt on other games aswell just to make more money off gamepass this will water down gaming as a whole and make microsoft games long tedious grinds
@@Rajin0114 thats not it and you know it you need to stop behaving like a toddler who's candy got taken away because he's to fat stop the kicking and screaming .... in your mind if its says forza its automaticly perfect 🤣🤣🤣🤣
To be honest a better system would be like you get limit on how much you can upgrade your car based on the PI, but you can use all of the parts for each car. For example your car starts at 550 PI and at the start you can upgrade to 570, then every level gives you higher ceiling and room for upgrades. This would actually make you creativly use all of the upgrades, even those which reduce your PI.
i disagree, it is a similar problem to the already established system where you cannot upgrade your car to the limit when you get a new car, car upgrades should not be directly linked to car level
Thats a dumb idea . If I have the money I should be allowed to max upgrade and use that car in races that are in that class , no one had issues with the way FM2 was it was perfect . what you do is get rid of Storefronts and only have the auction house with no limits on what a person can set the buy out at , then some noob cant just buy a tune for 10k they would be forced to acutely play the game to earn enough money to buy a car that is setup or would have to learn how to upgrade and set it up themself , and they should stop just giving cars away and get rid of paid downloadable content and make it so people had to win whole series before they could get a prize car. and make the races restricted by car class not division .
No that would suck just as bad is this system , what they need to do is get rid of the store fronts so people cant buy cheap setups and only have the auction with no limits on how much one can ask for the car , that way to be able to afford a car that can win races you would have to earn the credits. Plus they need to do away with the dumb woke Traded Idea of making it so a person who cant see can just let the car drive itself , Woke Tardism should have no place in a game
So basically the upgrades are like a RPG where you level up a character but instead it's a car. They said it was more sticking with the cars you like instead of just grabbing a whole bunch of random cars
I would be fine with having to unlock upgrades if it wasn’t on every individual car. If I full unlock upgrades on the 850r and I buy another one, I shouldn’t have to grind it out again
Yah that’s pretty annoying, except it probably won’t be too much of an issue for duplicates since I can just have multiple tunes and builds for the same car anyways.
I totally agree with your take on having an uncapped car level, just so you can show off your time and progression with that particular car. I have always looked at the mileage on my favorite cars just to see how much I have driven them, that's why I love that the odometers in most of the cars in FM7 show the actual mileage of the car.
I say that they can reach a good middle ground if they remove unlocks completely and the only limiting factor is how many car points you have based on your car level
See now THIS is a good take, though I don't mind the current system
Curious, the one thing people complained about the most about Forza Horizon was that it just gave you stuff for free way too often. Now people are complaining that they have to actually race, in a racing game, to get the stuff they want. I for one miss the old days when you have to race for hours to save up enough to buy that one car you wanted or to upgrade your car.
As someone who only gets to game on weekends, I really hate this new upgrade/progression system.... As someone who likes customizing my own way and just earning money (when it's done right like FM4) I still hate this new progression system.
I really hope they back track on this system. Everyone doesn't have time to grind every game for hours on end, especially with so many other games to play.
They wont because they want you to grind so they can say they have a lot of gamplay hours on gamepass its artificial inflation so they can make a shit ton of money .... and their gonne do this to more games yeah this story is bigger then forza alone
I mean level 1 you have enough mods to get your car to the top of the class system so you'll always be competitive with whatever car you want to choose. It's not horizon where you want to build a 900hp civic hatchback because it's going to suck on the track and any wider, purpose built supercar will destroy it on the track. Idk I'd have to see how quick the progression is too to see if it's actually obnoxious or not. This guy hit level 50 on multiple cars with a test build tho.
@@mervunit 3 to 5 hours for each car unlocking all cars would be 1500 to 2500 hours its not simply obnoxious you will pull your hair out of your skull
@@user-lq6vm8yt4h I've never driven every car in any forza game. for any given forza title I have 1-3 cars per rank D-C-B-A-S and they're never tuned to use every available mod. In most cases I wouldn't need to level up the car at all because the mods available at level 1 would be enough to bump me to the top limit of the rank. like use some common sense when thinking about it instead of going chicken little mode. Yea it's fun to throw a i4 turbo in a p50, but it's completely useless in a race lol. Horizon is the playground, motorsport is for racing.
@@mervunit thats you playing not millions of others most people on games like this collectbthe cars including the parts so talking about chicken little look in the mirror
In my opinion the worst is that if you buy a duplicate you have to go through level 50 again cause tha car levels are going to be a problem for normal cars. Race cars wont have the same problem cause they are already upgraded
Rip antilag. Was really hoping it would come to motorsport
nah, unless it gets toned down… it should just stay in fh5… anti lag is so agressive (not saying it shouldn’t be) but there should be an option in tuning or something that lets you dial down how much anti lag your gonna get… ( if that makes sense 😆 )
i love anti lag that may piss me off more than anything else
@@jjaaacobbbbor it makes a huge performance jump in PI
@@jjaaacobbbb like on gran turismo we have high and a low setting and the pops and bang realky differ so does your performance and so on
@@user-lq6vm8yt4h gran turismo is a big reason i wanna get a playstaion…
Love the honesty nick. Yeah this is jarring, turn 10 can’t take 2 steps forward without taking one back these days.
So basically choosing cars is gonna be like choosing guns on Call of Duty where you have "META" cars and everyone drives those meta cars until an update then another meta car becomes OP
I do still feel like the unlock system should be there, but per car is crazy(left a comment on the last video not realizing that it was per car). I feel it should use player level instead of individual car level and the ordering of the upgrades needs reworked. Stuff like widebodies should be one of the first things you get as it serves a purely cosmetic, most of the time, purpose for the car.
This honestly gives me vibes of what the older need for speed games were like. I remember in Carbon if you conquered a territory or win a race, you got certain paints, upgrades, or even whole cars!
The ballast upgrade doesnt only increase your car's weight, its makes your weight distribution more even, the honda started with 62/38 and with the extra heavy ballast it reaches 53/47 which should make the car drive better in the corners
They add those cool little details but skip over them to overhype dogshit like this
Except for that it weighs 500lbs more…
@@benjaminschimpf421But also it had lower PI
@@ivanbrasla sure
As someone who likes the game for racing, I value the painters providing og race liveries for every car. Also when I bought my e30, I bought brand new race brakes and semi slicks immediately.. didn't even have to drive it on a track to buy upgrade parts
"Built from the ground up"
Yet here we are with the same Forza wing, and upgrades we've had since FM1
Im a college student and trying to already balance school, work, and trying to have a normal life. I dont want to have to spend 3 hours out of my day maxing out a miata just to customize it the way i want. Doesn't help when im eying the idea of creating a forza league at the same time...
tbh, i don't mind the system in some aspects but with the entire level to unlock part is just a nightmare if you are someone with limited time, one way that i personally think would be better was the change that HoshiKoshi mentioned in his review of FM8 of Keep the points aspect but remove the level caps so that you still have to be mindful of what parts you get but you have free range on parts rather than being packaged into a box of bricks with no room to improve its boat level steering but who knows what T10 will do, just gonna have to wait for October
Hi Nick, I totally agree with you on the upgrade system being ridiculous and your suggestions for improvements made a lot of sense. Let's hope the Devs. do something about it sooner rather than later.
Still can't change the look of the exhaust outside of some wide body kits and rear bumpers that have different exhausts, trying to fix a part of the game that wasn't broken with the car upgrade system because they don't understand why people don't like the progression in the last few Forza games, AI scaling difficulty is awful in FH5 so no doubt it will be the same in this game.
I really like the idea for car levels and restrictions, Forza constantly makes cars feel worthless and slow by giving you supercars off the bat and allowing you to upgrade any car to max straight away. It ruins the special feeling of getting a car and slowly making it faster over time and seeing the gradual improvement of this car you've been driving for ages. hate how Forza has handled it for years and glad its changing.
As a part of the drift community i’m absolutely fuming at this leveling system, us drifters who have been apart of the community since the earliest days of forza now have to grind to perfect our drift build? that’s just dumb
Yeah... I think the best option would be to actually balance the credits system. They don't want you to be able to just go right up to the max level, so make upgrades cost an amount of money that matters. That way you have to actually budget without things just being given to you like crazy.
Wait, so what you are saying is that the new FM doesnt have tire for rain, so that you can go into pitstops when it starts raining and change it???
One thing I've always liked over gran turismo is the upgrades being freely done only limited by class. I don't know why turn 10 would suddenly want to be like GT. what I like with GT over forza is more choice of car or least more lower end options ie on GT7 or earlier game I had a Peugeot 107 which was a car I owned in real life and while you couldn't just freely upgrade, it was fun to race and upgrade what you couldn't really do in real life due to actually cost/value for money. Turn 10 needs to include more average joe cars more so modern ones. I own a modern scirocco which is a 1. 4, but while there is a scirocco in horizon 5, it's the R. Be nice for lesser versions to be include too. GT has a toyota yaris, forza doesn't. Just the little things that make the challenging more fun and interesting
This video saved me $70
Yeah I’m gonna go buy the crew motor fest instead
Yeah true I owe this guy 50 bux.
Imma just play it for free on game pass
@@daggermouth4695 oh it’s on the game pass nice
@@Twisted_Knob it is indeed. You gotta wait till the 10th though.
I downloaded it and almost got sucked in with the
" pay now play now "
On game pass.
Watched this video and thought nah ill just wait
Track racing games are so unbelievably boring to me. I know it’s subjective but I’ll never play a track game again
Let me ask everyone a question would you rather drive in a bright and colorful Hawaiian beaches in the option to drive 15 different story missions with many different things to do or drive an MX five for three hours just to put a body kit on it and take a picture and then never use it again i’m gonna go with Hawaii.
Ivory Tower know what they're doing
Rather car with good rim than terrible ones crew motorfest.
Motorfest is too much. It's an attack on the senses.
Upgrades system is worse on that game, than this, too.
@@falcongamer58microtransactions?
what would happen if a high level car were to sell on the auction house?
if u buy a car on the AH u will get it with it levelled, (i hope, thats how it should work lmao istg if it isnt)
🤔
Another thing to mention is with the new upgrade system with roughly 500 cars in the game at launch and 3 hours to get ONE to level 50 means if you want upgrade every car in the game with no restrictions you'd need to spend a minimum of 1,500 hours only levelling cars and that doesn't even account for DLC cars in the future.
Omg I hate that so much. I never even thought to do the numbers. I don’t have that kind of time. Not even close
1500 hours really isn’t that much lmao.
@@bmxstar14 it's 62.5 days of constant driving.
@@bmxstar14its actully a lot, i played gt7 for 1264 hours and that game has been out for nearly 2 years and i have played a lot with that tine to
You have to keep that Game Pass subscription topped up then.
Agree 1000%. Not just a 100%. I guess "bragging rights" are enough to warrant a grind without basically kicking everyone who can't grind in their parts. Just have everything unlocked right away or at level 20~25 to "get a feel for the car"
This seems more like a "how do we get people to keep playing this game for hundreds of hours so they keep buying our DLCs over the next 2 years" mechanic rather than "we wanted to give people meaningful progression". Sick of devs in general trying to add these time sinks to games thinking it makes them more engaging or rewarding. It's a racing game, we want to race and modify our cars and tune and paint them, not idle our systems for hundreds of hours so we can unlock upgrades on 15% of the available cars. Guess I'll stick to F7 and FH5 until I can grab this on deep discount.
I honestly think this system could be easily fixed with one tiny change. I like the idea of having the separate currency for upgrades and purchasing vehicles, but every upgrade needs to be instantly available. With this you can keep gaining 400 car points or whatever every level up on your car (so you actually do have to work a little for race upgrades) but don’t lock basic customization behind 3 hours of gameplay.
Edit: this is basically what was said at the end of the video but my point still stands. An unlimited level cap would be cool too
It's better but it still has the issue that if you want to upgrade a car to a significantly higher class you need to do a lot of grinding.
@@jeremymercer5655well yeah that's the point
Would ruin the whole point... nobody liked having everything at once.
@@tjrox03 I don't think you realize the ways this system prevents people from playing the game. For a lot of people Forza was a sandbox game where you could try lots of things. That's not possible anymore unless you are willing to drive in circles for a few hours before you can actually do what you want.
Second many people (me included) drive almost exclusively in league races. A group of people organize a series with 6-12 cars that are tested and balanced together. If one car is too strong it can be given a PI penalty. Ideally several people upgrade all the cars and test them to make sure they both fit the series and and are not too strong or weak.
The car leveling system requires each person doing this testing to sink 2-3 hours per car before they can even start the work of testing the cars. This is not feasible.
I think they just need to make free play and custom online lobbies exempt from the car leveling system. You can have the progression in career or public online, but don't prevent people from playing the game in other ways.
@@jeremymercer5655 I agree, I just think minor tweaks to this system could get us there
They did everything right in Forzamotorsport #4 now it has come to this garbage !
honestly, i think this is an outcome of modern games being so grand and ambitious, they don't have community feedback during development. I think we need more smaller scale but highly detailed and handcrafted games rather than these modern "blockbusters."
Its not about community feedback they want you to grind because it gives them a shit ton of playing hours on gamepass wich equals money .... and if succesfull they will implement grindy mechanics like these in many more games wich is kinda gonne ruin gaming in general ... comes down to the fact its good for nobody but microsoft
What are you talking about? The community feedback was meaningful progression and that's exactly what this system is, in a unique way
@Rajin0114 there's nothing meaningful with this system. It is purely a grind meant to artificially inflate play time, this is a gamepass game, its not going to make money on sales, player engagement is what's important to them and this system does that. The problem is I don't see many people sticking around too long and I honestly hope they don't.
And what I mean by feedback is, if they could have told us the plans for this new system when it was greenlit during development, so that we could have said, hold on, this isn't what we asked for, we might have been to vague, we wanted this instead: I think I can speak of behalf of everyone here: WE WANT EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN FM4 IN FM8 Or just a fm4 remake at this point honestly.
A similar misunderstanding from the developers for fm8 is that, we asked for bumpers and fenders etc, to sometimes fall off in crashes, but instead they showed off "we made the scratches in your paint better than ever, built from the ground up"
Community feedback during development. Let us know what your plans are when they get set into place.
Transparency to get people hyped for new systems, community interaction (and good press) and a level of mutual trust.
Playground has done this much better than turn 10.
And let's be real, even if this game sucks, fh6 is probably coming out 2024.
@JadenWeeks it would be nice but that's not how game development works. Some people might like this system, I think most won't, but in the larger scheme of things they needed a hook for sustainability. So far this system only affects upgrades, if you're someone who like spec racing or usually use only a few vehicles this won't be so bad. But for people that want a lot of cars and be able to modify them its going to take a lot of time.
If you want two versions of the same car for different uses, just create a tune file for each version and load that tune. No need to own copies of the same car.
Excatly what i do that in FH5
Imagine wanting to do a replica livery for a car with a wide body kit, and you have to spend 3 hours driving it around before you can get started...
This system is so bad.
I really hope the devs listen to the community (actually LISTEN) and fix this progression and car-level system if they wish to snag and keep a new player base and keep their current players.
and for those of us who don’t consider it to be broken, we just have to suck it up do we?
@@Sharcukyeah, because people like you guys who have hours to grind for some specific car have no life. You aren’t exactly the bulk of the fan base and population of this games users.
The "community" are a bunch of people with knee jerk reactions who know nothing about game development. I don't have a problem with this video, I have a problem with the comments in it.
Hoping that this game has the same thing as FH5 (Actually listen to the community few later)
The ideal would have been to put the upgrades and XP in a character profile where upon reaching X level you unlock Y upgrades (similar to GT7 with the engine swaps that requires a certain level of collecting) instead of being all the lvl thing per single car.
I like the car level thing. It makes it so that you have to really work your car from the ground up instead of just buying it and installing all the upgrades and never actually having any reason to drive it stock or with light upgrades. I'm a sucker for progression.
I agree, in classic FM fashion too we will be inundated with millions of credits at the start for being a long time forza player, takes thr fun out of earning and upgrading a bit.
As a tuner I need the availability of every part in order to find the best builds and as a replica painter need parts available to properly replicate the livery’s. For someone like me that has a full time job and family, This is going to suck balls.!
Imagine going into a tire shop saying you wanted the best slicks they have and being DENIED because you haven’t driven this car for two hours yet EVEN THOUGH you’re one of the top in the world and have already maxed out hundreds of other cars.
This is ridiculous
If they don't change the car progression system before the game comes out, then it just shows how much Turn 10 doesn't listen to their community, unlike Playground Games who has been killing it as of late and are truly embracing the community and has me genuinely excited for what they will do for the rest of FH5s lifespan and even FH6. Come on Turn 10, it doesn't take much to change your system. It isn't entirely bad, just certain aspects.
How much do you think they can do in 4 weeks seriously im not buying this i play gran turismo aswell and its just better then forza in so many ways
@@user-lq6vm8yt4h You are entitled to your opinion, but I have been someone who grew up with an Xbox since I was 5 or 6, so Forza and a myriad of rally and offroad games are what captured my attention throughout my life. Forza has its flaws, but Gran Turismo is absolutely not perfect either. They both offer different strokes for different folks, and while this progression system isn't good, I think everything else looks pretty spot on, and you cannot say that GT is better without having even played this Forza game. Oh and also there is no open world Gran Turismo game soo... that comparison doesn't work when you include Horizon, which is also a very flawed game but I enjoy it and have enjoyed the Horizon series since FH2. I don't care which is better. I just want good games. Good games make good competition, competition makes innovation, innovation means everyone wins because everyone can have a fun game for whatever platform they play on. Could absolutely give less than half a shit from a rats ass about whether Forza or GT is better. Forza is better for me and that's all that matters.
Also it wouldn't take much to change the progression system. All they literally have to do is remove the level requirements for upgrade parts. It is just a parameter that is part of the entire leveling system as a whole so it shouldn't be that hard to remove, and then the car points system stays. It really wouldn't take much.
I think even crew motorfest is knocking on The door know for fh5, know they can sit on their shoulders anymore,
@@user-lq6vm8yt4hi kind of agree about that
@@andreasmoller9798 yup also buying that next month it looks great
i like this progression but i think its a little *too* tedious. horizon and the crew make unlocking things really easy, and while i do want somewhat of a challenge, spending 3 hours driving a shitbox isnt what i really meant
Except there are people who, apparently, like driving JDM shitboxes 😂
Ok but you unlock upgrades for each level basically
@@fifteen8850 “bUt tHe sUpRa-“
some people play this game for tag and drag racing not actual racing
@@mrchickinman9984 that car’s goated tho. I’m talking about npc Kias and Nissans
I miss Forza Motorsport 2...
6 was apex.
i mean people were complaining about forza getting boring because the progression is way too fast, so idk what people are complaining about how theres a car level system
Yea this game sucks already. Remember when Forza Horizon 1 had an actual story with characters that didnt praise you for eveything and talked trash to you. Had rags to riches progression. Those were the days
Some simple solution they could do is: No.1 Make leveling your car take alot quicker maybe 40min - 1 hour to reach level 50. No.2 make leveling cars universal across multiple copys of that car, for instance you can have a level 50 r32 that u use for racing and the ability to buy, from the autoshop, a level 50 r32 that u can spec for drifting. No.3 maybe you could make car credits universal and use them to buy levels for a car so if you saved up you could buy a car and use the credits to fully upgrade the car to level 50 immediately and use normal credit for buying upgrades like we always have.
I've seen quite a few of your videos for FH5, and this one is my favorite. I like the auto-driving reveal at 12:50. You mentioned that at the right time, and it made an effective point.
I think a better progression system would involve discounts on upgrades by leveling up a car, or maybe some character cosmetics locked by a car level. Either way the way they tried doing the upgrade system is dog poo.
How do we know what the events are going to be like, and he said that the cars may became discounted so may be the parts will as well. We are jumping to conclusions here. That’s like a detective saying the first person he interviews is the one to be arrested and tried
@@comeausautomotiveradioshow i don’t think we need to know what cars are going to be discontinued to think of a better car upgrade/level system
I remember getting into Forza when 3 came out, and i loved that progression. they could have lowered the credits earned per race, and solved the issues entirely. "Hey you want to move to the professional races? race a lot, win a lot, and then you can afford it." not, "You are the best racer we've ever seen, but unfortunately you don't have enough companion points to upgrade yet. spend some more time with this specific car, to upgrade, this specific car. so that one day, you too can do it all over again when you buy a second one for a fun build."
so happy to miss a motorsport title and not have any second guesses, i feel like im free from an abusive relationship
Still feel like gran turismo 7 is better
I like the new leveling system I always like getting familiar with how a car drives stock which is normally when cars feel unique before you start tossing in weight reduction and engine swaps and awd that’ll start making it feel similar to other cars
Forza's shittiest idea to date ngl
i don’t mind it tbh, ive played forza games since fm2 and i’ve always gotten bored of cars quickly when im able to just immediately slam every single upgrade into them from the get go. i’m excited to try this new idea out and see if i like it in practice the same as i do in theory. imo it sounds like it gives you a greater bond with the car and makes everyone’s playthrough different!
Seeing the lack of customization options on the Civic Type R was such a disappointment.
I think that this upgrade system is fine tbh. Having something to work toward is always a benefit plus it will make your vehicles feel like YOUR vehicles. Everything is far too easy to get ahold of in the horizon games and Ive felt that way for years. Nothing has any significance to it.
They are too easy in horizon games, I can agree to that. But this restricts so heavily what you can do with them. I’m starting college and I simply won’t have enough time to play to unlock a car unless I do it over the span of a month. That is awful. They don’t need to make upgrading cars impossible, they just needed to make credits harder to earn and start you out in a lower class car like a Honda fit.
Not everyone has 3 hours to grind for fully upgrading a car to their liking lol and to do it for every single new car you purchase is crazy.
@@astroworld662
Yeah, I'd be okay with it if i didn't work and shit lol.
I think this a welcome change. Having rhe ability to just upgrade every car right off the bat if you have the credits removes any sense of achievement and ultimately becomes an empty boring process. I like the idea of having to grind and earn an upgrades slowly and meaningfully. It will make you have more of a connection to the car. One thing i wish they added is the same thing from Street Rod frok the 90s where you could look for second hand parts in the newspaper and use those until you could afford more expensive parts
That's how Im feeling about it. It will make you play in different classes instead of fully upgrading and then boredom and move on
Forza customization sucks in general though, only thing about Forza's customization is the livery editor - otherwise it has most stuff from past Forza games, though there has been some new stuff like Anti Lag
That's bullshit! FM4 had some variety in the department
It's been improving a lot with the aftermarket body kits, parts, and wheels they've been adding recently. Still not amazing, though. They have a lot of cool wheels in the game, but the wheel specs are literal ass, so I never really even run them
100% on point if there is one thing they need to change ASAP but probably wont, would be car points being spent how USERS see fit not how the game wants it to be. This would make it a lot more enjoyable and allow people to experiment with different cars instead of obsessing over just one or two. Not carrying car levels over to the same models is just dumb.
Agree 100% - Love the idea of progression but not with this much restriction. Perhaps if you just unlocked 'upgrade tokens' but all upgrades were open, or unlock by class and/or car type, maybe? Or do this ONLY in career mode (and maybe a multiplayer-career mode). I just want to tune cars to the top of a class and race my mates, or do build challenges where we agree a car and a target class. To force everyone through this is ridiculous and they'll deserve the fury coming their way. They have taken the 'CarPG' idea way to far here!
I'm probably in the minority but I like this new system. It seems very rpg like, which really gives you a sense of accomplishment by the time you put into it. While I understand the plight of the community, I hope there's a way to keep this system but also give something that the community will like. Maybe the option to switch between the 2.
I’m with ya! Some thing fresh and new!
The problem is that there is no end game. You went from having everything available almost immediately to nearly everything is locked no matter how much you play. I can't figure out an iteration of car leveling that allows people to do league racing. The only way I have played Forza games since Forza 2 is with a group of people that setup a series like historic trans am (late 60s muscle cars), Historic trans am 2 liter (BMW 2002, Datsun 510, etc), or Touring car (modern hot hatches and sedans). Each of these series can have around 6-10 cars available to choose from. In each of these series the organizers have to upgrade all of the cars and test them to make sure they fit in the series and aren't too strong or too weak. Sometimes we also apply our own balancing limiting some cars PI if they are too strong. This will be impossible to do because of car leveling. If you were to try to do a 10 car series, the people balancing the car would each have to spend 2.5*10 = 25 hours of time mindlessly grinding before they could even start the work of balancing the series. Then you have to do this every 1-2 months for the next series.
I don't think people disagree with the bones of the new system. They just want it tweaked. Also being RPG like isn't always good. There's a lot of mindless grinding in many RPG games too.
I’m still excited for the new progression system. I only drive a small handful of cars anyway when I play forza and I love the thought of making a car yours and sticking with a car you feel is more built by you.
I feel the same other than it doesn’t follow over to the same car which makes no sense. I think the problem is with content creators realising they will have to put the work in and play the game to make the content
Hope multiplayer an wheel support works great. Everything else looks fine for me now.
Why didn't you feel like the cars in the previous games were built by you?
@@73rmin8r more generic, everyone has access to the same stuff at the same time and cash is the only factor, while this requires you to earn and make more choices and that makes it more individually built by you. i get what they're saying and i kinda agree, i don't like the level limits as much, but i do like the concept overall.
@@kellynnd5361 fair enough. I can't wrap my head around that mentality at all personally. It just makes me resent the game having carrots dangled in front of me for things that I didn't use to have to jump through hoops for.
Also having the freedom to do whatever you wanted to the car immediately seems to me like it would give you more choices than being drip fed a part every once and a while. Unless you cynically just go look up the meta on how to modify it perfectly there'd be more permutations of the same car that people would be using, and that'd lead to them being more individual.
Customization is a priority for games
Then go play need for speed.
@@spenceroneil4747But the handling model is absolute ass, so no
@@spenceroneil4747 ok I do, but on an unrelated note did you ever find your dad?
@takumifujiwara1772 yeah he's still where we buried him 5 years ago
I don’t know why the developers ever got the idea in their heads that racing game players want their game to play like an MMO
I’m very happy about this, it will make upgrading a car satisfying. Kinda ridiculous how on Forza Horizon you could hop on and in 10mins have an X class Bugatti
Another way to have a leveling system would be to lock you behind classes kinda like the Hot Wheel expansion or iRacing, and the more you progress in the game, the more you can get in the big toy playground
I think the next FM game should be about starting a new racing team from the ground up. Why not start off in your garage with a shitbox and eventually earn enough money and xp to have a fully fledged team that competes in all the different categories? Something like GRID but you are the manager, you decide the direction. You can slowly upgrade your “garage” to unlock simple upgrades like weight reduction or small engine mods or more extreme like wide body kits and better suspension upgrades that require more expertise to install. This would give the game some actual progression, something we all want.
What you're describing is essentially Juiced & to a lesser extent Juiced 2
That's just dissapointing. Forza definitely needs some improvement. 🤦♂
Leveling up the car in order to unlock custimization is just plain stupid. Forza Motorsport is a racing sim, last time I checked, drivers don't have to level up their cars before they modify them...... I'm already hating this game
It’s like they want it to be a sim and a car MMO like the crew but both don’t mix
Imagine wanting to enter a race on a track irl and everyone is using upgraded tuned cars but you still have to drive 3 hours with a stock car
to be able to install something :s
Love the honesty Nick, never change!
I’ll probably enjoy the upgrade progression system. It will force me to be more selective when Choosing, bond with the cars more and appreciate them rather than having too many options. I understand why people don’t like this but I’m more interested in the feel of the cars and the game in general. It’s not been great since FM4.
This is perfect. I’m Forza you get so many cars it becomes a bit overwhelming on which ones to upgrade, now it makes it so you’re rewarded for driving the car. I like it!
People just want everything for free and fast which made FH5 ultra boring. In the crew 2 I had to at least grind to get cars and be happy about it. Motorsport should be game about racing, going for half sim at least and make you feel rewarded. Then people say "but i don't have time to play games" - then don't play lol. Ppl really annoying these days, crying crying crying
@@Slowerinowhen you own over 1000 games do you really believe one which makes you do mindless grind via the car auto driving for you the one you’ll spend your time on? Nope. There’s better racers out there. GT7, the crew motorfest (which is a car MMO so grinding is the staple) ACC (a real driving simulator with all parts available from the start)
@@retrogamer64007 just play forza instead, motorsport should be about racing not spoiled kids
@@Slowerino motorsport should be about racing and upgrading car parts which you need immediately not grind for it. You want a car MMO play the crew games. You want a real sim racer without ridiculous gimmicks then play assetto corsa.
Wheel spacers need to immediately come back. Wheels need to be sorted a different way than alphabetically. When painting or customizing your car the screen needs to be brighter. Just a few things.
If they are making the car upgrades level based per car they better make it to where that single car will be able to race in 80 percent of the races available and get xp at a reasonable rate or this won't work. People will just simply buy a faster or better performing car and never feel the need to upgrade anything. Which will get boring.