@@GarageStrength you're either the biggest hypocrite i've seen in 13 years on youtube, or the biggest idiot. Definitely worst video on the topic of weightlifting though, congrats on that.
@@GarageStrength cause in your research work you missed a couple of "little facts", like if you want to be a supported sportsmen you have to be at least "master of sports" in those countries. You can find out what it needs to be to get this title, in weightlifting it is an certain total at competition, most of the superstars we know reach that goal in their age of 13 - 15, those are numbers which other people will never achieve. If you do not get even this far without abusing doping rules, you will never be able to challange the team members when you arrive in national team, and this is just one of a lot of "little facts", this was poor research work you did
The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to think this way is absurd. Everyone knows weightlifting is massively dirty/corrupt, but at the end of the day ilya still did 246kg, and he still won two olympic gold medals and many world championships against a field of equally dirty competitors. A positive drug test doesn't simply make those things disappear because at the end of the day, everyone still knows he did those things. Is the best weightlifter not still the one who can lift the most weight overhead? Nobody argues that lance armstrong is one of the greatest cyclists of all time despite what we know now. This is no different, except Ilya is from eastern europe, so its easy for americans to think of him like borat running around with nazerbayev and plotting USAW's downfall. Ilya may not be the absolute best, but to exclude ilya for these reasons but keep the greeks, soviets, bulgarians and turks from the 80s-90s just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't think anyone believes they were clean. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He lost his Olympic titles. So he wouldn’t qualify. And no one really defends Lance Armstrong. This isn’t a USA vs The World issue. It’s a corruption issue. A clean vs dirty sport issue.
We have several athletes that we work with directly that are World Class in weightlifting, Track and Field, wrestling, and football. They are ALL CLEAN. Elite sport doesn't mean dirty. We cannot speak for other Americans and athletes that we don't work with, but you can be at that level without taking PEDs
lets not forget that at the time when corruption was still widespread in weightlifting, and many were on PEDs , the name Ilya Ilyin still stood above all of them , and in 3 weight categories!
@@GarageStrength How about Lance Armstrong? Are you gonna tell me that you don’t think Lance is one of the best cyclists ever to have lived just because he wasn’t clean? Even though practically every other cyclist was also on PEDs on the TDF?
Here's how I see it. He was on track to be the greatest weightlifter of all time until he was found out. Now he was stripped of his Olympic titles and that's just it. But he still won against the best in the world any time that he tried while being on drugs when most of them probably were, too. Then again, he was the one who got caught and they weren't. Though his 246 CnJ is absolutely unparalleled, even in the era of rampant doping before the 2000s. I'd say this: you cannot call him the greatest of all time because he lost his titles but you also cannot discount the facts that he never lost in competition, put up some of the biggest numbers ever and that we could probably assume his competition wasn't any more drug free than him. It's just complicated.
So every record on the 80s 90s and early 200s was on steroids and everybody knows that !!!! But if everybody was on gear really counts like cheating?? In a time we less knowledge about recovery and ect they pull numbers that nobody is really close this days obviously they was taking enough gear equal to a Mr Olympia competition, I just think you can compare that Era with modern Era simple as that .
You put Pyrros in your previous list, not only that you work with him. Dude, if you are condemning doping you cannot ignore that the situation in Greece when Pyrros was competing is the same as what happened in the past in KAZ.
Also iirc you put naim süleymanoğlu, really? Come on. When Ilya came back he was 34 and knew no other way to train than to max out everyday, of course his numbers would be shit. One thing we know for sure is that in a race with all doped athletes he dominated and thats not only because of PEDs. Dude had talent and you cannot deny it with a straight face.
I know they were dirty, but for the list's sake, Ilya is not a recognized Olympic Champion thus which would not make eligible compared to other lifters
@@GarageStrength That's the dumbest reason I've ever heard. Look at Shi Zhiyong and team China, they're some of the greatest lifters that we'll ever see but why should they be eligible for your list (though you didn't choose them) while Ilya isn't? China is never gonna let their weightlifting superstars be popped, ESPECIALLY with how corrupt the IWF is
@@GarageStrength honestly he’s recognized as a multi Olympic champion by anybody who follows or cares of the sport, no one cares if he got caught for doping because everyone knows that everyone dopes
How dare you to disrespect my boy like that. You comparing him in his worst shape(because injury and rehab( also he got older)) as a 2 times Olympic champion and multiple unbeaten world champion to US nationals. Ilya Ilyin is a legend and his achievements will never be forgotten. Embrace and learn from legends my guy!!!
You are discrediting his achievements based on the corrupt system he works in. Why not look at the bigger picture and see that WADA is setting an unfair playing field on an international scale? Stop hating the players and hate the game. If weightlifting leaves the olympics, its a loss to the Olympics in my opinion. It will not reduce my love of the sport or the athletes.
There are definitely work arounds if you want them, but it's individualized. YOU choose to take it and will go down the rabbit hole to get it. I am referring to these team sponsored doping programs that are literally killing the sport and force athletes to take drugs from an early age. BIG DIFFERENCE.
@@GarageStrengthwow it'd almost like it's hard to come back to full form after years off and in the time period your entire life pretty much falling apart
He will be always be the goat. Singling him out is hypocritical. Everyone is on dope at that level. He just happened to be caught for multiple reasons. Just because others haven't been caught does not make them greater than him. Every single one is on dope.
Hello! I love the channel, but I can't say the same about this video. I'm going to write my response, even though I am a no-name keyboard warrior. This is click bait. The thumbnail asks if Ilya Ilyin is overrated, and the title says that he has a problem. I will be addressing this, not why you didn't put him on the list. I don't agree with why you didn't put him on, but still. First: yup. it's was easier to get drugs in former eastern bloc countries, China, and many smaller countries. For most, the weightlifting team actually gives their athletes the drugs. However, that doesn't mean that all US athletes are clean. Just look at WADA's list of popped athletes. And while it's certainly harder to get drugs in the US, those guys got it from somewhere. Second: Yeah, most US weightlifters are *probably* clean. Why does that invalidate Ilya Ilyin's performances? Ilya Ilyin is still the elite of the elites. Even if he was on PEDs, nearly everyone he was competing against was on them to. And these people weren't just guys off the street, they were genetic anomalies. Why? Because they were at the top. We just don't know how he compares to the few countries that don't encourage PED usage. "6 or 7 other guys" No. If you were a weightlifter able to come close to Ilya Ilyin's numbers, you were doping, just maybe not caught like he was. There were not just "6 or 7 other guys" doping there. And also, if you look at the fact that almost everyone he competed against was on the sauzule, it wasn't the drugs that lost him the titles, it was getting caught. Now, you do bring up good points. I can't refute them. His return was trash, and when compared to clean lifters after his return, he was definitely sub par. Doping in the past has nearly killed the sport today, and Ilya Ilyin was a part of that. But, in my one last attempt to show how ridiculous the main argument (him doping) is, I have a few questions: is Lasha Talakhadze overrated? How about every top level lifter since the 80's? Lu Xiaojun? Tian Tao? Klokov? Clarence Kennedy? These guys are all almost definitely doping, they're just lucky enough to not get caught/banned, although in Clarence's case, he doesn't have to worry since he doesn't compete, and Klokov didn't need to worry after retiring. Sorry if you make a response and I don't respond to it, I don't always get notifs and I rarely check for replies.
He won because he uses steroids lol people still use that excuse? All the people at his level were or are juicing too. He was just one of a kind, also, at the highest level of any sport, athletes are on something , he just got caught.
Very interesting video. It is a matter ought to be discussed and addressed. Some people say they rather witness a 230kg C&J WR at 94 using grandpa's secret pills than 200kg C&J WR at 94. I preffer the later. Zach Telander and Max Aita discuss all of what you've said in their podcast a few months ago. I was surprised too when Ilya couldn't even C&J 200kg. But there are reasons: he was previously injured, he stoped training, he went through a divorce, lost a lot of money. Mentally and physically he was far from the his best naturally speaking. I still believe he would be elite even in a world without roids and probably would earn a medal.
Any sport, especialy strenght sports at their highest level will forever be filled with PED users. I agree with you on the general moral and fair aspect and on the fact that it undermines the sport, but lets be real here, if someone put a gun to your head and asked you do you think any of the guys in your top 6 were clean you would say no without hesitation. I mean if the benefits are as high as you say they are (and I would definitely agree) how do people from your top 6 out-score Ilya (who you rightfully suspect of using PEDs from a very young age) in sinclair points by a comfortable margin? Furthermore , Ilya was de iure clean in 2015 when he made his best performance (2014, 2005, 2011 also clean) so if we compare him to the US athletes you mentioned who are also de iure clean at the moment he destroys them , and is technicaly speaking still a 4 time world champion, again unlike them. Dont think i do not appreciate our US lifters, or that I am "roasting" them I fully support them and the efforts to make this sport cleaner and part of the Olympics. I just want to point out the inconsistency and the ignorant (albeit lawfull) assessment that everyone is clean untill they are proven cheaters. The harsh reality is that weightlifting is political and if we somehow got testing that is 100% accurate and catches everyone weightlifting would cease to be an olympic sport, or maybe not... since other sports would show how dirty they are!
you cannot really say that his results after coming back showed anything, he almost took his own life and everyone left him. I can tell that very few would be in prime after that
You got to remember that if Ilya was using PEDS as early as 14 then his endocrine system is probably shot. That means comparing him now to what he could have been had he never touched anything isn't fair. The hurtles someone faces competing coming off PEDS verses someone who has never touch them is entirely different. Also, he clearly has a back injury that is helping anything right now. His training volume has been subpar to say the least and his ability to handle anything remotely close to what other healthy 96 kg lifters are doing is a joke. Obviously, this is going to have a huge effect on his ability to perform at the highest level. If you add all that up you'll realize that he is a heck of a lot better weightlifter than Nathan Damron or DJ Shuttleworth and even trying to make that comparison is a joke. Yes, he popped dirty at a time when everyone was dirty and I agree that doesn't make it right, but at the end of the day he still would have been one of the best weightlifters in the world. Look at Barry Bonds, tell me he wasn't going to be a Hall of Famer before he touched anything..... He clearly was one of the best players in the game regardless and PEDS helped him go over the top. Ilya is no different and anybody who thinks he wouldn't have been great without PEDS is clearly off their rocker.
Wait, so you are telling me that all those top notch PED scientists and chemists working in best labs in the US are doing it for the lulz while athletes use creatine mono only?
Incredibly reductive argument comparing ilya to nathan omitting key details that could contribute to ilya's decline and attributing the difference purely to the use of PEDs
It’s not impossible for clean athletes to become elite, but even among the elites there’s still levels to it. If you just want to say you’re an elite weightlifter, maybe get some intercontinental medals, then PED use may not be necessary for genetically gifted athletes. The problem lies for the athletes who want to actually beat the best, not just compete among them. Telling an athlete, no matter how freak their genetics may be, that they can be Olympic champion without PED use is just misleading. Sadly, there is no way to 100% guarantee clean athletes. All the athletes who make it to the Olympics have top tier genetics and work ethic but once you add steroids to the mix everything changes. You can’t out work steroids, if that person on steroids already works hard and is a genetic beast. Maybe the clean athlete doesn’t care about becoming an Olympic medalist/Champ, but this is OLYMPIC weightlifting after all. You may think it’s unfair for the clean athletes, and it is, but the sad truth is that drugs will always be apart of weightlifting and elite sports. Weightlifting is a career for many athletes and their government/country are relying on them to get a medal or win the Olympics through any means necessary. They’re not just competing for their own glory, they’re competing to represent their country’s strength to the rest of the world. In the US we have a more strict testing regimen whereas some other countries will encourage and possibly even require their athletes to take PEDs. They’re like soldiers. Im not saying it’s right, but I don’t believe athletes who are caught should be vilified like they’re the odd ones out. It should be the countries who encourage and/or force drug use on athletes, that are vilified like this. When it comes to the elite of the elite, the clean ones are the odd ones out. Until politics and corruption are out of the sport and we can catch 100% of drug users...weightlifting will be unfair to clean athletes. The truth hurts.
I understand your argument and def think it’s worth talking about. However, ultimately can we really believe any of the lifters from your top 6 vid are actually lifetime drug free athletes? Did you notice none of them on that list were from 2010 onward where drug regulations finally learned how to detect stanazolol and turinabol? I think it’s unfair for Ilya to get nearly ALL the flack for the drug problems in the sport (I speak on behalf of the whole weightlifting community not just this vid). I mean Naim died from liver failure if I remember correctly and he was from the big dbol era in weightlifting which is a very liver toxic compound. The unfortunate truth is I (personally) do not agree that an athlete should be left out from a greatest of all time list purely based on (getting caught for) his drug use. However, I do agree that we need to move on towards a cleaner more drug free sport if the sport is to survive (olympics are everything to us) therefore perhaps even the last GOAT list shouldn’t be held too highly within the sport. My overarching point here is that getting caught should not exclude Ilya from a list of lifters who simply did not get caught. Testing was far more lax back in those days and the insane clean n jerk (not snatch) numbers are one of many other indicators of this. Great video and discussion tho garage strength. These are convos that need to be had!
This video is very hypocritical, specially when he put Pyrros and Naim in his previous list, two athletes that did bulgarian style training which we all know only works when you are juiced up.
@@agustingianni seriously, love this channel but how can he legitimately call out ilya as basically a fraud but still have those other 6 in such high regard? come on guys
I do not believe the athletes in my top 6 video are clean outside of maybe Tommy Kono. That being said if we just look at the requirement of the video. He LOST his Olympic titles. They technically don't exist meaning he was never Olympic Champ. This negates his placing on the list as everyoneelse won at least 1 Olympic title. Now... I separate PRE 2010s as a different era for the sport. Where most everyone on top was on drugs and everyone just accepted it as that. BUT, in this day where weightlifting might be banned from the Olympics because of drug cheats and corruption, drug use needs to be condemned. Ilya Ilyin represent everything wrong with the sport thru state sponsored doping and pay offs to officials. It's time for a change. I can respect history while understanding the context of the results. Today, the sport needs to better and look with a critical eye what a REAL FREAK LIFTER actually is.
@@GarageStrength I def agree there needs to be a changing of the guard for the sake of the sport we love. I’ll agree to disagree on Ilya as not being a freak athlete. I’m a self admitted fan boy haha. I would also probably give tommy kono the benefit of the doubt Im curious what are some current lifters you would give freak status to? Besides lasha as the given.
Only two points to make here. The first, is the one that *everyone* else is making namely, that top level weightlifting across the board is not a drug free sport. The second, is the folly of an approach that says USA = clean and everyone else = 🤔. Who thinks flo-jo or her records are clean? Wasn't the USA the origin of BALCO and The Clear? More recently, how about Salazar at Team Nike? Doping is not a specific country thing, its a sport thing.
I am speaking specifically about Weightlifting and USA Weightlifting because this the sport that is under fire by the IOC and could very likely be taken out of the Olympics because of the rampant doping and corruption. Colombia just had 3 lifters test positive yesterday and will likely be banned from Tokyo. The sport is on the brink of losing one of the main things that draws athletes to do it: the Olympics. Of course other sports and American athletes dope, but that is not what this video is about.
@@GarageStrength I agree and think that weightlifting will eventually be cut. I believe its more than just the doping too. The Olympics is also about money and viewership. Weightlifting doesn't attract the popularity of other summer sports such as swimming, track and volleyball. Wrestling, (arguably the original sport) also faces being cut which seems like blasphemy to me. However, when you think about not as many people are watching or care about wrestling to the same extent as the other events listed above.
I hate that he got stripped of his gold medals because he basically worked all his life to get to that point just for it to get taken away. And besides, we all know that not all the time these athletes know about any of the stuff that they be taking because they put all their trust in their coaches. It's like a toss-up! Sometimes they know or sometimes they don't. But you cannot deny that this man has been a incredible athlete all his life.
Let a guy on yt tell you why 2 time Olimpic.gold Medalist is overrated. Everyone in Olympics is on shit. It's normal. Iwf and Olimpic committee are fixing idiots for "disqualifying" him. It's criminal. He is still the Champion in everyones eyes. Plus, like the guy who cam in second is clean haha. What a joke it all is. Ilya is a legend. Goat
Stating his post positive test weight results weren’t impressive is utterly braindead. He was clearly experiencing rebound effects and had a negatively affected endocrine profile. Coming from a sport where steroid use is accepted if not hush hush, I don’t see the problem. There is never an even playing field. You’ve got fuck all evidence that your lifters are clean- why would they tell you? ILYA ILYAN FOREVER!
You're sadly mistaken if you think american atheles don't use peds. It probably just stings that you haven't monopolized the sport and can't pick medals off winners to give them to your own competitors à la Carl Lewis. Improve at the sport.
Sorry, but USADA is much more strict than most countries. Our athletes are tested constantly at my gym. 7 of them are National Team Members. Saying USA is just as dirty as Kazakhstan is an excuse to say that those countries are just better at Weightlifting not because they have a corrupt system lifting them up. There is a culture of lifting there that I admit, but all of these positive drug test prove that they are dominant mostly because of drugs.
I'm from Russia and I've never heard of anybody easily purchasing enhancement drugs in pharmacy without receipts. Purchasing drugs is a serious crime here. But I'm not trying to say that top athletes are clean. Let's don't be hypocrites and admit that all athletes starting sport master rank and often just candidates are using drugs.
@@GarageStrength It's not my experience. I'm the cleanest intermediate lifter. But I know weightlifting coaches who load their teenage athletes with pro amount of drugs. My young brother lifted sport master degree at age of 17. And I saw everything. Situation is the same everywhere. The difference is just the quality of juice in different countries. And the reason the are getting banned is government control over drug quality. Most athletes have to use low quality or even fake juice.
I 100% believe that the IPF is a lot less doping infested than the IWF and the main reasons are the prestige of the Olympics and the lack of an untested division. The illusion that sports can be forcibly kept clean actually makes it harder for clean athletes to compete amongst themselves.
if you're being real about it tho everyone at that level is enhancing and certainly so so many below that level are still wishing they could do that. but if your some natural kid you just gotta know that is not gonna happen
I see Ilya as sort of a victim. The dude was balding at 15-16 years old from all the drugs. It's pretty obvious he was given a pass to do more drugs than a lot of his competitors, and even imo given more opportunity than a lot of the Kazakh team. Ilya even got to start his own team and had connections with the President of Kazakhstan itself (not the fed, the actual president of the whole country.) Sedov, Khyberdaev (misspelled), Uteshov, Zaichikov, etc, were all in spitting distance of Ilya's numbers either as 94s or 105s for Zaichikov. Same with Nurudinov and Bedzhanyan as competitors, imo, they were under a lot more scrutiny and had to likely do what they did with less pharmaceutical help but still got popped. Ilya managed to avoid getting popped like the rest of the Kazakh team for a long time, and I think that was due to some sort of corruption. Vladimir Sedov had an outburst at nationals right before retests were officially announced disrespecting Ilya, probably knowing more about the corruption. Then suddenly, it all crashes down for him and he's vilified and loses everything, and he suffered really massive depression and mental problems after. He just seemed like a pawn for bigger players, even the ironic pictures of almost totally bald and acne faced him in front of WADA "Play True" signs and stuff. It would suck to work that hard, have it all taken, and be powerless to stop as someone bigger than you was calling the shots. That said, even besides the "clean" athletes I think the corruption took away opportunities even from his teammates and lifters like Bedzhanyan who imo probably got where they were with less drugs.
Everyone who thinks that there is athlete at any sports, who do not use Peds at Olympic lvl is idiot in my opinion and do not deserve to watch sport. With love from east Block. 🥰
Uso drogas o no, sus levantamientos son legendarios y si para el valió la pena , yo no le veo problema a que lo haya hecho de esa manera, al igual es la vida y la salud de el, y siempre voy a decir que es uno de los mejores en la historia
I prefer to see PED's in top level sports. Imagine watching the olympic's then realising Joe Bloggs next door is outlifting them because he's doing winstrol lmao.
Ilya rebounds as a clean and aging weightlifter after not training and suffering through the worst period of his life, and proceeds to hit Nathan Damron's all time best numbers at 96 as a 102? What a lame and oversimplified comparison that is a disservice to both athletes and their work.
Yooo seeing Damron training for mash years ago is what inspired me to find a coach and pick up weightlifting and I follow him to this day !! He just snatched 170 like a week ago and PR’d his CJ @206 kg !! Subbed as soon as you gave him recognition man. Pretty sure he’s got the highest Sinclair in America as well. Fantastic info
no wonder the channel name is Garage Strenght. I was in the USA on a work and travel visa and i can tell you that i could buy steroids from any meathead in any gym wuthout prescription. I can tell that you dont know what you are talking about. And i am telling you that on basis my contact with the american culture and i dont whant to be rude or disrespecfull to anyone but, the US is over 250 mil people and country like Bulgaria is 7 mil. and i can tell you that i used to think that the bulgarians are lazy because everyone tells you that after you are born. The truth is that i met the most lazy people in my life in the US. I have lived also in multiple European countries. So to sum this up the US is clean and the savior of sports and the eastern countries are cheats and no good! Great message my friend you won millions of haters!
Interesting point to think: what if genetic modified babies are common in the future, can modified persons compete in sports? Sure every countries will try to create Steve Roger of their own..
dire qu’un athlète qui fait des world recore comme cummings est propore est soie de la bienveillance envers lui soit de l’ignorance il tourne a tout sauf a l’eau cummings ptdr a 14 piges il arrachais 120
I think it's obvious that all these doping scandals was triggered after political events of 2014 (Crymea, Ukraine etc.). That's why only CIS-region athletes suffered. I mean, they took away the medals after 4 and 8 years after. Where were they before? It's just politics.
The fact of the matter is, people that just say everyone that is good is on drugs are complete losers, they don't have the power of will, determination, genetics, and pure grit that world class athletes have, so they assume they are on steroids, the reality is, some people are not made to be athletes. Yes there are tons of athletes that are doping, but just saying everyone is doing it is just dumb. I haven't seen the video yet, but by reading the comments i already know its a good one
The irony when an American talking about the ease of purchasing PEDs. You can easily go to the nearest 'age doctor' and get everything you need on subscription. Oh, you're feeling tired? Here's some testosterone enanthate, buddy.
Just to be clear. I understand that your top is based on the fact of putting weightlifters who were not caught and sanctioned, beyond that all the connoisseurs of the matter know that ALL OF THEM are no less dirty than Ilya. I would like to know in which historical top you would put Ilya Ilyn if you did not take this reference into account, since the fact that you put a weightlifter or not for a technicality like this knowing that the one you put cheated also seems unfair and hypocritical at least for me.
Testing is much more sensitive these days than in 80s, 90s and even early 2000s which includes the era of many of the athletes you mentioned in your top 6. If we could retest urine samples those during those top athletes I wouldn't put much stock in their urine being virgin golden purity. The point is we can't definitively point out athletes/countries to be cheater/non-cheater with blanket statements. It is ignorant and we will never know the real truths. We can just respect and admire athletes. Ilya cheated but he is a good athlete whom I believe loves the sport (he still competes despite having a tarnished reputation and being much weaker).
Not our athletes. We have produced Junior World medalists, American Record Holder in Discus, World Senior Qualifiers in 3 different sports (1 weightlifting) and World Senior Medalist in Wrestling - ALL CLEAN
Know I guy who has a relative on an Olympic team. Over beers he was like ya our coaches tell us what to take and how to avoid pinging lol. He says everyone does it. I'd you didn't you wouldn't even be in the same league. Look at Armstrong, they had to go down to 11th place to get a "clean" guy.
Polemic video!!! I understood your point but i agree in parts about what you said. As in the past the history repeats, on one side we've "good guys" against the others... "bad guys" The difference is not only about the systems, or training regimen but is also about the CULTURE OF SPORTS. And one more time the EAST is the seen villainous and dirty in front of the world and north as the "puritans" of sport... Uncle Sam also knows how to play very dirty, Sir!!! A long story, very polemic, divetgent pathways... but good and INTEREST discussion. GOOD BUT POLIMIC AND CONTROVERSIAL VIDEO. Peace for you too!!!!✌
Hate to burst your bubble but absolutely nobody believes the US Olympic team is clean ... Noone Literally every other lifter was on drugs and they still are. The only reason the kazak team got destroyed was they didn't pay Ayan enough.
Actually, he had several herniated discs around the last competition. Due to injuries, he is not so good as he was. And there is no way to not get caught if you are competing in the Olympics and use doping. There is a list of forbidden substances, and all lifters are being tested on those. The laboratory test proves who was using doping and who is not. There is no such thing as "someone just did not get caught".
Might be an unpopular opinion, but bowing to the IOC and the Olympics is a mistake. They are the most corrupt sports organization ever, which is saying something. The Olympics’ sheen was removed a long time ago and weightlifting is used to demonstrate that the IOC is actively controlling PEDs to mask other more popular events (track, cough, cough) where athletes blast and never are caught. They can then trot out weightlifting to demonstrate their virtue. Sometimes you just have to admit you’ve outgrown something. That is the case of weightlifting and the Olympics. Time to move on and chase bigger opportunities. No matter what your opinion of Crossfit, their marketing and opportunity for athletes are incredible. The Olympics seeks to subjugate weightlifting, its time it seeks its own identity, as the two are no longer compatible
That's a fair argument. All of my top lifters train because they want to one day be Olympians and that is why so many countries invest so much money into corruption because they see Olympic medals as the highest representation of National pride. It is an interesting argument to have, but I think Olympic Weightlifting is good for the Olympics.
Worst video you've made so far.
😘
I agree with you leave this youtber even if they give him the him the drug he won't even lift 140kg🙄🙄🙄🙄 he's here talking bulshit
@@GarageStrength you're either the biggest hypocrite i've seen in 13 years on youtube, or the biggest idiot. Definitely worst video on the topic of weightlifting though, congrats on that.
@@qltcn how so?
@@GarageStrength cause in your research work you missed a couple of "little facts", like if you want to be a supported sportsmen you have to be at least "master of sports" in those countries. You can find out what it needs to be to get this title, in weightlifting it is an certain total at competition, most of the superstars we know reach that goal in their age of 13 - 15, those are numbers which other people will never achieve. If you do not get even this far without abusing doping rules, you will never be able to challange the team members when you arrive in national team, and this is just one of a lot of "little facts", this was poor research work you did
Everyone else on your list was blasting gear all day everyday
Yep... maybe not Tommy Kono though... Also Ilya was technically not eligible because he is not a recognized Olympic Champion
"It's not against the rules to take drugs, it's against the rules to get caught taking drugs"
- Louie Simmons
The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to think this way is absurd. Everyone knows weightlifting is massively dirty/corrupt, but at the end of the day ilya still did 246kg, and he still won two olympic gold medals and many world championships against a field of equally dirty competitors. A positive drug test doesn't simply make those things disappear because at the end of the day, everyone still knows he did those things. Is the best weightlifter not still the one who can lift the most weight overhead? Nobody argues that lance armstrong is one of the greatest cyclists of all time despite what we know now. This is no different, except Ilya is from eastern europe, so its easy for americans to think of him like borat running around with nazerbayev and plotting USAW's downfall. Ilya may not be the absolute best, but to exclude ilya for these reasons but keep the greeks, soviets, bulgarians and turks from the 80s-90s just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't think anyone believes they were clean.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
He lost his Olympic titles. So he wouldn’t qualify. And no one really defends Lance Armstrong. This isn’t a USA vs The World issue. It’s a corruption issue. A clean vs dirty sport issue.
@@GarageStrength as many others here have already said, if this is a “clean sport issue” then you can throw your whole list in the trash.
@@GarageStrength In fact it is politics a lot of politics wtf Russians cannot complete with their own flag xd
Lmao like every other weightlifter that competes in the olympics is clean
yeah and that's not cool 👆
Everybody is on drugs except of the usa sportsmen 😄🤦🏼♂️
@@domi7073 hahahaha the best sarcasm
Don’t believe for a second that strength athletes at the top of their sports (US or otherwise) are ever clean
they ALL do something, if they dont. they wont get anywhere near the podium
We have several athletes that we work with directly that are World Class in weightlifting, Track and Field, wrestling, and football. They are ALL CLEAN. Elite sport doesn't mean dirty. We cannot speak for other Americans and athletes that we don't work with, but you can be at that level without taking PEDs
@@GarageStrength every elite sportsman is on PEDs. That's the fact. Hard to believe but that's sad reality
@@bernardpavlovic4489 We have the athletes to prove otherwise.
@@GarageStrength who? Cj cummings maybe? Don't be ridiculous
You're delusional if you think the rest of the field, US athletes included, are not sauced to the gills
Well, I've been a Team USA Coach for over 5 years now so... I think my points are valid.
@@GarageStrength nah youre just lying
lets not forget that at the time when corruption was still widespread in weightlifting, and many were on PEDs , the name Ilya Ilyin still stood above all of them , and in 3 weight categories!
Facts.
Respect it, but can't praise it especially, when seeing him clean 🤷♂️
@@GarageStrength How about Lance Armstrong? Are you gonna tell me that you don’t think Lance is one of the best cyclists ever to have lived just because he wasn’t clean? Even though practically every other cyclist was also on PEDs on the TDF?
Here's how I see it. He was on track to be the greatest weightlifter of all time until he was found out. Now he was stripped of his Olympic titles and that's just it. But he still won against the best in the world any time that he tried while being on drugs when most of them probably were, too. Then again, he was the one who got caught and they weren't. Though his 246 CnJ is absolutely unparalleled, even in the era of rampant doping before the 2000s.
I'd say this: you cannot call him the greatest of all time because he lost his titles but you also cannot discount the facts that he never lost in competition, put up some of the biggest numbers ever and that we could probably assume his competition wasn't any more drug free than him. It's just complicated.
No he wasn't
His numbers in the 90s (bodyweight) were nowhere near Solodov's
His numbers in the 100s were nowhere near Zakhaverich's
Applausse the best comment
So every record on the 80s 90s and early 200s was on steroids and everybody knows that !!!! But if everybody was on gear really counts like cheating?? In a time we less knowledge about recovery and ect they pull numbers that nobody is really close this days obviously they was taking enough gear equal to a Mr Olympia competition, I just think you can compare that Era with modern Era simple as that .
hes the GOAT and will always be the GOAT.
Ya no doubt about it
I agree with you leave this youtber even if they give him the him the drug he won't even lift 140kg🙄🙄🙄🙄 he's here talking bulshit
How can someone so involved in the field be so hilariously naive?
What a toddler!
You put Pyrros in your previous list, not only that you work with him. Dude, if you are condemning doping you cannot ignore that the situation in Greece when Pyrros was competing is the same as what happened in the past in KAZ.
Also iirc you put naim süleymanoğlu, really? Come on. When Ilya came back he was 34 and knew no other way to train than to max out everyday, of course his numbers would be shit. One thing we know for sure is that in a race with all doped athletes he dominated and thats not only because of PEDs. Dude had talent and you cannot deny it with a straight face.
I know they were dirty, but for the list's sake, Ilya is not a recognized Olympic Champion thus which would not make eligible compared to other lifters
My coach was a good friend with pyros. He was blasting a lot of gear
@@GarageStrength That's the dumbest reason I've ever heard. Look at Shi Zhiyong and team China, they're some of the greatest lifters that we'll ever see but why should they be eligible for your list (though you didn't choose them) while Ilya isn't?
China is never gonna let their weightlifting superstars be popped, ESPECIALLY with how corrupt the IWF is
@@GarageStrength honestly he’s recognized as a multi Olympic champion by anybody who follows or cares of the sport, no one cares if he got caught for doping because everyone knows that everyone dopes
How dare you to disrespect my boy like that. You comparing him in his worst shape(because injury and rehab( also he got older)) as a 2 times Olympic champion and multiple unbeaten world champion to US nationals. Ilya Ilyin is a legend and his achievements will never be forgotten. Embrace and learn from legends my guy!!!
246 @ 104, nothing more needs to be said.
🤷♂️
and under 200 @ 96 now? terrible!
You are discrediting his achievements based on the corrupt system he works in. Why not look at the bigger picture and see that WADA is setting an unfair playing field on an international scale? Stop hating the players and hate the game. If weightlifting leaves the olympics, its a loss to the Olympics in my opinion. It will not reduce my love of the sport or the athletes.
in USA is hard to buy PED?? What about Bodybuilders, NFL, Powerlifters, Strongman, Baseball, NHL, NBA, WWE, etc...
There are definitely work arounds if you want them, but it's individualized. YOU choose to take it and will go down the rabbit hole to get it. I am referring to these team sponsored doping programs that are literally killing the sport and force athletes to take drugs from an early age. BIG DIFFERENCE.
Hahaha yeah buddy true
State sponsored doping is a slightly different topic (sub topic) to individual athlete doping.
Drugs or not, he’s the GOAT and no one can outlift him.
well recent results aren't in his favor unfortunately
@@GarageStrengthwow it'd almost like it's hard to come back to full form after years off and in the time period your entire life pretty much falling apart
He will be always be the goat. Singling him out is hypocritical. Everyone is on dope at that level. He just happened to be caught for multiple reasons. Just because others haven't been caught does not make them greater than him. Every single one is on dope.
Hello! I love the channel, but I can't say the same about this video. I'm going to write my response, even though I am a no-name keyboard warrior.
This is click bait. The thumbnail asks if Ilya Ilyin is overrated, and the title says that he has a problem. I will be addressing this, not why you didn't put him on the list. I don't agree with why you didn't put him on, but still.
First: yup. it's was easier to get drugs in former eastern bloc countries, China, and many smaller countries. For most, the weightlifting team actually gives their athletes the drugs. However, that doesn't mean that all US athletes are clean. Just look at WADA's list of popped athletes. And while it's certainly harder to get drugs in the US, those guys got it from somewhere.
Second: Yeah, most US weightlifters are *probably* clean. Why does that invalidate Ilya Ilyin's performances? Ilya Ilyin is still the elite of the elites. Even if he was on PEDs, nearly everyone he was competing against was on them to. And these people weren't just guys off the street, they were genetic anomalies. Why? Because they were at the top. We just don't know how he compares to the few countries that don't encourage PED usage.
"6 or 7 other guys"
No. If you were a weightlifter able to come close to Ilya Ilyin's numbers, you were doping, just maybe not caught like he was. There were not just "6 or 7 other guys" doping there. And also, if you look at the fact that almost everyone he competed against was on the sauzule, it wasn't the drugs that lost him the titles, it was getting caught.
Now, you do bring up good points. I can't refute them. His return was trash, and when compared to clean lifters after his return, he was definitely sub par. Doping in the past has nearly killed the sport today, and Ilya Ilyin was a part of that. But, in my one last attempt to show how ridiculous the main argument (him doping) is, I have a few questions: is Lasha Talakhadze overrated? How about every top level lifter since the 80's? Lu Xiaojun? Tian Tao? Klokov? Clarence Kennedy? These guys are all almost definitely doping, they're just lucky enough to not get caught/banned, although in Clarence's case, he doesn't have to worry since he doesn't compete, and Klokov didn't need to worry after retiring.
Sorry if you make a response and I don't respond to it, I don't always get notifs and I rarely check for replies.
Pretty pathetic considering USA is not clean when it comes to their sports.
He won because he uses steroids lol people still use that excuse? All the people at his level were or are juicing too. He was just one of a kind, also, at the highest level of any sport, athletes are on something , he just got caught.
Very interesting video. It is a matter ought to be discussed and addressed. Some people say they rather witness a 230kg C&J WR at 94 using grandpa's secret pills than 200kg C&J WR at 94. I preffer the later. Zach Telander and Max Aita discuss all of what you've said in their podcast a few months ago. I was surprised too when Ilya couldn't even C&J 200kg. But there are reasons: he was previously injured, he stoped training, he went through a divorce, lost a lot of money. Mentally and physically he was far from the his best naturally speaking. I still believe he would be elite even in a world without roids and probably would earn a medal.
Any sport, especialy strenght sports at their highest level will forever be filled with PED users. I agree with you on the general moral and fair aspect and on the fact that it undermines the sport, but lets be real here, if someone put a gun to your head and asked you do you think any of the guys in your top 6 were clean you would say no without hesitation. I mean if the benefits are as high as you say they are (and I would definitely agree) how do people from your top 6 out-score Ilya (who you rightfully suspect of using PEDs from a very young age) in sinclair points by a comfortable margin? Furthermore , Ilya was de iure clean in 2015 when he made his best performance (2014, 2005, 2011 also clean) so if we compare him to the US athletes you mentioned who are also de iure clean at the moment he destroys them , and is technicaly speaking still a 4 time world champion, again unlike them. Dont think i do not appreciate our US lifters, or that I am "roasting" them I fully support them and the efforts to make this sport cleaner and part of the Olympics. I just want to point out the inconsistency and the ignorant (albeit lawfull) assessment that everyone is clean untill they are proven cheaters. The harsh reality is that weightlifting is political and if we somehow got testing that is 100% accurate and catches everyone weightlifting would cease to be an olympic sport, or maybe not... since other sports would show how dirty they are!
Ilyia was the best
you cannot really say that his results after coming back showed anything, he almost took his own life and everyone left him. I can tell that very few would be in prime after that
You got to remember that if Ilya was using PEDS as early as 14 then his endocrine system is probably shot. That means comparing him now to what he could have been had he never touched anything isn't fair. The hurtles someone faces competing coming off PEDS verses someone who has never touch them is entirely different. Also, he clearly has a back injury that is helping anything right now. His training volume has been subpar to say the least and his ability to handle anything remotely close to what other healthy 96 kg lifters are doing is a joke. Obviously, this is going to have a huge effect on his ability to perform at the highest level. If you add all that up you'll realize that he is a heck of a lot better weightlifter than Nathan Damron or DJ Shuttleworth and even trying to make that comparison is a joke. Yes, he popped dirty at a time when everyone was dirty and I agree that doesn't make it right, but at the end of the day he still would have been one of the best weightlifters in the world. Look at Barry Bonds, tell me he wasn't going to be a Hall of Famer before he touched anything..... He clearly was one of the best players in the game regardless and PEDS helped him go over the top. Ilya is no different and anybody who thinks he wouldn't have been great without PEDS is clearly off their rocker.
Wait, so you are telling me that all those top notch PED scientists and chemists working in best labs in the US are doing it for the lulz while athletes use creatine mono only?
Incredibly reductive argument comparing ilya to nathan omitting key details that could contribute to ilya's decline and attributing the difference purely to the use of PEDs
It’s not impossible for clean athletes to become elite, but even among the elites there’s still levels to it. If you just want to say you’re an elite weightlifter, maybe get some intercontinental medals, then PED use may not be necessary for genetically gifted athletes. The problem lies for the athletes who want to actually beat the best, not just compete among them. Telling an athlete, no matter how freak their genetics may be, that they can be Olympic champion without PED use is just misleading. Sadly, there is no way to 100% guarantee clean athletes. All the athletes who make it to the Olympics have top tier genetics and work ethic but once you add steroids to the mix everything changes. You can’t out work steroids, if that person on steroids already works hard and is a genetic beast. Maybe the clean athlete doesn’t care about becoming an Olympic medalist/Champ, but this is OLYMPIC weightlifting after all. You may think it’s unfair for the clean athletes, and it is, but the sad truth is that drugs will always be apart of weightlifting and elite sports. Weightlifting is a career for many athletes and their government/country are relying on them to get a medal or win the Olympics through any means necessary. They’re not just competing for their own glory, they’re competing to represent their country’s strength to the rest of the world. In the US we have a more strict testing regimen whereas some other countries will encourage and possibly even require their athletes to take PEDs. They’re like soldiers. Im not saying it’s right, but I don’t believe athletes who are caught should be vilified like they’re the odd ones out. It should be the countries who encourage and/or force drug use on athletes, that are vilified like this. When it comes to the elite of the elite, the clean ones are the odd ones out. Until politics and corruption are out of the sport and we can catch 100% of drug users...weightlifting will be unfair to clean athletes. The truth hurts.
I understand your argument and def think it’s worth talking about. However, ultimately can we really believe any of the lifters from your top 6 vid are actually lifetime drug free athletes? Did you notice none of them on that list were from 2010 onward where drug regulations finally learned how to detect stanazolol and turinabol? I think it’s unfair for Ilya to get nearly ALL the flack for the drug problems in the sport (I speak on behalf of the whole weightlifting community not just this vid). I mean Naim died from liver failure if I remember correctly and he was from the big dbol era in weightlifting which is a very liver toxic compound.
The unfortunate truth is I (personally) do not agree that an athlete should be left out from a greatest of all time list purely based on (getting caught for) his drug use.
However, I do agree that we need to move on towards a cleaner more drug free sport if the sport is to survive (olympics are everything to us) therefore perhaps even the last GOAT list shouldn’t be held too highly within the sport.
My overarching point here is that getting caught should not exclude Ilya from a list of lifters who simply did not get caught. Testing was far more lax back in those days and the insane clean n jerk (not snatch) numbers are one of many other indicators of this.
Great video and discussion tho garage strength. These are convos that need to be had!
This video is very hypocritical, specially when he put Pyrros and Naim in his previous list, two athletes that did bulgarian style training which we all know only works when you are juiced up.
@@agustingianni seriously, love this channel but how can he legitimately call out ilya as basically a fraud but still have those other 6 in such high regard? come on guys
@@agustingianni exactly
I do not believe the athletes in my top 6 video are clean outside of maybe Tommy Kono. That being said if we just look at the requirement of the video. He LOST his Olympic titles. They technically don't exist meaning he was never Olympic Champ. This negates his placing on the list as everyoneelse won at least 1 Olympic title. Now... I separate PRE 2010s as a different era for the sport. Where most everyone on top was on drugs and everyone just accepted it as that. BUT, in this day where weightlifting might be banned from the Olympics because of drug cheats and corruption, drug use needs to be condemned. Ilya Ilyin represent everything wrong with the sport thru state sponsored doping and pay offs to officials. It's time for a change. I can respect history while understanding the context of the results. Today, the sport needs to better and look with a critical eye what a REAL FREAK LIFTER actually is.
@@GarageStrength I def agree there needs to be a changing of the guard for the sake of the sport we love. I’ll agree to disagree on Ilya as not being a freak athlete. I’m a self admitted fan boy haha. I would also probably give tommy kono the benefit of the doubt
Im curious what are some current lifters you would give freak status to? Besides lasha as the given.
If those 2 Olympic titles were not erased, would you put him into the top 6 in history
Probably.
Until he said pyrros on the juice I won’t believe anything he says.
Only two points to make here. The first, is the one that *everyone* else is making namely, that top level weightlifting across the board is not a drug free sport. The second, is the folly of an approach that says USA = clean and everyone else = 🤔. Who thinks flo-jo or her records are clean? Wasn't the USA the origin of BALCO and The Clear? More recently, how about Salazar at Team Nike? Doping is not a specific country thing, its a sport thing.
I am speaking specifically about Weightlifting and USA Weightlifting because this the sport that is under fire by the IOC and could very likely be taken out of the Olympics because of the rampant doping and corruption. Colombia just had 3 lifters test positive yesterday and will likely be banned from Tokyo. The sport is on the brink of losing one of the main things that draws athletes to do it: the Olympics. Of course other sports and American athletes dope, but that is not what this video is about.
@@GarageStrength I agree and think that weightlifting will eventually be cut. I believe its more than just the doping too. The Olympics is also about money and viewership. Weightlifting doesn't attract the popularity of other summer sports such as swimming, track and volleyball. Wrestling, (arguably the original sport) also faces being cut which seems like blasphemy to me. However, when you think about not as many people are watching or care about wrestling to the same extent as the other events listed above.
Just the GOAT
he's doped to the gills but i could care less! he's an all timer. he might be the greatest modern weightlifter.
Not at all.
Great Video, especially mentioning the side effect of high volume leading to perfecting your technique!
I hate that he got stripped of his gold medals because he basically worked all his life to get to that point just for it to get taken away. And besides, we all know that not all the time these athletes know about any of the stuff that they be taking because they put all their trust in their coaches. It's like a toss-up! Sometimes they know or sometimes they don't. But you cannot deny that this man has been a incredible athlete all his life.
It doesn’t matter if he got stripped. He was still in the podium. It means he was the best.
Let a guy on yt tell you why 2 time Olimpic.gold Medalist is overrated. Everyone in Olympics is on shit. It's normal. Iwf and Olimpic committee are fixing idiots for "disqualifying" him. It's criminal. He is still the Champion in everyones eyes. Plus, like the guy who cam in second is clean haha. What a joke it all is. Ilya is a legend. Goat
Sure, also in postsoviet counties we all drink vodka and ride bears every day. And americans are all clean. Absofuckinglutely.
Exactly! 😂
Stating his post positive test weight results weren’t impressive is utterly braindead. He was clearly experiencing rebound effects and had a negatively affected endocrine profile.
Coming from a sport where steroid use is accepted if not hush hush, I don’t see the problem. There is never an even playing field. You’ve got fuck all evidence that your lifters are clean- why would they tell you?
ILYA ILYAN FOREVER!
I'm sorry its come to the point that people can't think some lifters can be clean. Our lifters are clean. Take it or leave it.
@@GarageStrength usa is one of the most doped nation of all of them. But i understand that you cant go against your own team.
The dislike to like ratio says so much.
Natty ladies gets mad for superhuman Ilya⬅️
Meanwhile I'm sure you rim lasha to high heaven like everybody else does 🤦♂️
Even Lasha was banned for PEDs... it's a dirty sport
I don’t know about the 81kg lifter he might be on the juice
Kinda trash vid my man. Why make click bate? Ilya is the best
when are we getting an untested division
Well... technically has been for awhile lol
You're sadly mistaken if you think american atheles don't use peds. It probably just stings that you haven't monopolized the sport and can't pick medals off winners to give them to your own competitors à la Carl Lewis. Improve at the sport.
Sorry, but USADA is much more strict than most countries. Our athletes are tested constantly at my gym. 7 of them are National Team Members. Saying USA is just as dirty as Kazakhstan is an excuse to say that those countries are just better at Weightlifting not because they have a corrupt system lifting them up. There is a culture of lifting there that I admit, but all of these positive drug test prove that they are dominant mostly because of drugs.
Hey in UK and USA you can get on internet steroids ..... What are you talking about
never said they didn't
@@GarageStrength ?? you said in the video you can’t get drugs in America
I'm from Russia and I've never heard of anybody easily purchasing enhancement drugs in pharmacy without receipts. Purchasing drugs is a serious crime here. But I'm not trying to say that top athletes are clean. Let's don't be hypocrites and admit that all athletes starting sport master rank and often just candidates are using drugs.
I understand that is your experience, but Russia is currently banned by the IOC for state sponsored doping and cheating for a reason.
@@GarageStrength It's not my experience. I'm the cleanest intermediate lifter. But I know weightlifting coaches who load their teenage athletes with pro amount of drugs. My young brother lifted sport master degree at age of 17. And I saw everything. Situation is the same everywhere. The difference is just the quality of juice in different countries. And the reason the are getting banned is government control over drug quality. Most athletes have to use low quality or even fake juice.
I 100% believe that the IPF is a lot less doping infested than the IWF and the main reasons are the prestige of the Olympics and the lack of an untested division. The illusion that sports can be forcibly kept clean actually makes it harder for clean athletes to compete amongst themselves.
Clarence Kennedy just released a video on just this. Testing just doesn’t work if it only catches
if you're being real about it tho everyone at that level is enhancing and certainly so so many below that level are still wishing they could do that. but if your some natural kid you just gotta know that is not gonna happen
I see Ilya as sort of a victim. The dude was balding at 15-16 years old from all the drugs. It's pretty obvious he was given a pass to do more drugs than a lot of his competitors, and even imo given more opportunity than a lot of the Kazakh team. Ilya even got to start his own team and had connections with the President of Kazakhstan itself (not the fed, the actual president of the whole country.) Sedov, Khyberdaev (misspelled), Uteshov, Zaichikov, etc, were all in spitting distance of Ilya's numbers either as 94s or 105s for Zaichikov. Same with Nurudinov and Bedzhanyan as competitors, imo, they were under a lot more scrutiny and had to likely do what they did with less pharmaceutical help but still got popped. Ilya managed to avoid getting popped like the rest of the Kazakh team for a long time, and I think that was due to some sort of corruption. Vladimir Sedov had an outburst at nationals right before retests were officially announced disrespecting Ilya, probably knowing more about the corruption.
Then suddenly, it all crashes down for him and he's vilified and loses everything, and he suffered really massive depression and mental problems after. He just seemed like a pawn for bigger players, even the ironic pictures of almost totally bald and acne faced him in front of WADA "Play True" signs and stuff. It would suck to work that hard, have it all taken, and be powerless to stop as someone bigger than you was calling the shots. That said, even besides the "clean" athletes I think the corruption took away opportunities even from his teammates and lifters like Bedzhanyan who imo probably got where they were with less drugs.
Everyone who thinks that there is athlete at any sports, who do not use Peds at Olympic lvl is idiot in my opinion and do not deserve to watch sport.
With love from east Block. 🥰
Hello coach could you make a video on how to improve wrestling cardio/conditioning outside of mat time
Yeah. Check out our video on endurance training for wrestlers 👉 ua-cam.com/video/vucFkmTMO2o/v-deo.html
I bet this guy Rolls a red carpet out and puts pyrros as the cleanest lifter of all time 😂😂😂.
Uso drogas o no, sus levantamientos son legendarios y si para el valió la pena , yo no le veo problema a que lo haya hecho de esa manera, al igual es la vida y la salud de el, y siempre voy a decir que es uno de los mejores en la historia
I prefer to see PED's in top level sports. Imagine watching the olympic's then realising Joe Bloggs next door is outlifting them because he's doing winstrol lmao.
By the like , dislike ratio people still love illya very much ...
☝️☝️
Ilya rebounds as a clean and aging weightlifter after not training and suffering through the worst period of his life, and proceeds to hit Nathan Damron's all time best numbers at 96 as a 102? What a lame and oversimplified comparison that is a disservice to both athletes and their work.
Yooo seeing Damron training for mash years ago is what inspired me to find a coach and pick up weightlifting and I follow him to this day !! He just snatched 170 like a week ago and PR’d his CJ @206 kg !! Subbed as soon as you gave him recognition man. Pretty sure he’s got the highest Sinclair in America as well. Fantastic info
It is a crime that they took his Olympic medals away. Complete horseshit the top 10 of those games were probably on something if not more.
Thank you for your enthusiams to save weightlifting
Really glad you liked it 👍
no wonder the channel name is Garage Strenght. I was in the USA on a work and travel visa and i can tell you that i could buy steroids from any meathead in any gym wuthout prescription. I can tell that you dont know what you are talking about. And i am telling you that on basis my contact with the american culture and i dont whant to be rude or disrespecfull to anyone but, the US is over 250 mil people and country like Bulgaria is 7 mil. and i can tell you that i used to think that the bulgarians are lazy because everyone tells you that after you are born. The truth is that i met the most lazy people in my life in the US. I have lived also in multiple European countries. So to sum this up the US is clean and the savior of sports and the eastern countries are cheats and no good!
Great message my friend you won millions of haters!
Interesting point to think: what if genetic modified babies are common in the future, can modified persons compete in sports? Sure every countries will try to create Steve Roger of their own..
Such a downer when he tested positive.
Lol A lot of ignorant comments here. I'm not saying all olympic athletes are clean but you just cant be caught using drugs.
TRUTH
So, we shouldn't put Naim, Pyros, or any of the other great lifters of the 80's - 2000's on pedastals either.
I think US athletes are less juiced... But keep in mind US Food is more modified than other Nations foods.
Fair play to that lifter of yours but just because they passed tests doesn't mean they are clean. USADA do you even believe what you're saying ?
dire qu’un athlète qui fait des world recore comme cummings est propore est soie de la bienveillance envers lui soit de l’ignorance il tourne a tout sauf a l’eau cummings ptdr a 14 piges il arrachais 120
Conclussion...the top 10 weightlifter of all time...must never exist.
Ilya ilyn da human fridge
😂😂
This is one of the worst things ever. and not just on youtube.
You say so many times ped is hard to use in usa and usada is such a good company..... We all know all top tier athletes in usa use ped mate....
I think it's obvious that all these doping scandals was triggered after political events of 2014 (Crymea, Ukraine etc.). That's why only CIS-region athletes suffered. I mean, they took away the medals after 4 and 8 years after. Where were they before?
It's just politics.
Not just CIS, Romania too... still Eastrn Block though
이미 스포츠계는 약물판이 된지 오래임. 그것을 그냥 인지하고 스포츠가 아닌 엔터테인먼트로 생각해야함. 그래서 이젠 더 이상 스포츠 경기에 대한 관심을 두지 않음
올림픽이던 월드컵이던 ㅋㅋ프로는 더 이상 말할것도 없고.
The fact of the matter is, people that just say everyone that is good is on drugs are complete losers, they don't have the power of will, determination, genetics, and pure grit that world class athletes have, so they assume they are on steroids, the reality is, some people are not made to be athletes. Yes there are tons of athletes that are doping, but just saying everyone is doing it is just dumb. I haven't seen the video yet, but by reading the comments i already know its a good one
So you didn’t watch it?
@@GarageStrength i did
The irony when an American talking about the ease of purchasing PEDs. You can easily go to the nearest 'age doctor' and get everything you need on subscription. Oh, you're feeling tired? Here's some testosterone enanthate, buddy.
Just to be clear. I understand that your top is based on the fact of putting weightlifters who were not caught and sanctioned, beyond that all the connoisseurs of the matter know that ALL OF THEM are no less dirty than Ilya. I would like to know in which historical top you would put Ilya Ilyn if you did not take this reference into account, since the fact that you put a weightlifter or not for a technicality like this knowing that the one you put cheated also seems unfair and hypocritical at least for me.
The US athletes are clean 🤔
All i see is angry old guy ranting
"it's very simple... it's not like United States... " NBA, NFL, NHL, MBL, Boxing... no drugs test. Project Oregon, Lance Armstrong, Chris Colleman...
Testing is much more sensitive these days than in 80s, 90s and even early 2000s which includes the era of many of the athletes you mentioned in your top 6. If we could retest urine samples those during those top athletes I wouldn't put much stock in their urine being virgin golden purity. The point is we can't definitively point out athletes/countries to be cheater/non-cheater with blanket statements. It is ignorant and we will never know the real truths. We can just respect and admire athletes. Ilya cheated but he is a good athlete whom I believe loves the sport (he still competes despite having a tarnished reputation and being much weaker).
Part where you compare Ilya to US lifters is such a bullsh*t...
Steroids are badass
I don’t get it , all this for what ?
Soon Americans will be the only people weightlifting according to your logic - atleast then the USA may win a gold or world championship.
well... not if certain countries get it banned from the Olympics lol
BS, you are saying the eastern block has easy access to anabolic steroids and claiming that USA is clean. Why did I waste my time watching this.
But all top athletes have roided soooooo your argument is invalid.
不好意思，但是你说的纯属放屁。与你所说的相反，我看到的是一个经历了禁药风波和几年不规律训练还能在短时间内达到很高竞技状态的神级运动员。
Everyone’s on drugs dude
Not our athletes. We have produced Junior World medalists, American Record Holder in Discus, World Senior Qualifiers in 3 different sports (1 weightlifting) and World Senior Medalist in Wrestling - ALL CLEAN
Know I guy who has a relative on an Olympic team. Over beers he was like ya our coaches tell us what to take and how to avoid pinging lol. He says everyone does it. I'd you didn't you wouldn't even be in the same league. Look at Armstrong, they had to go down to 11th place to get a "clean" guy.
This is not Russia BTW.
Polemic video!!! I understood your point but i agree in parts about what you said.
As in the past the history repeats, on one side we've "good guys" against the others... "bad guys" The difference is not only about the systems, or training regimen but is also about the CULTURE OF SPORTS. And one more time the EAST is the seen villainous and dirty in front of the world and north as the "puritans" of sport... Uncle Sam also knows how to play very dirty, Sir!!! A long story, very polemic, divetgent pathways... but good and INTEREST discussion. GOOD BUT POLIMIC AND CONTROVERSIAL VIDEO. Peace for you too!!!!✌
LOL you think Olympic athletes are clean! xD
Hate to burst your bubble but absolutely nobody believes the US Olympic team is clean ... Noone
Literally every other lifter was on drugs and they still are. The only reason the kazak team got destroyed was they didn't pay Ayan enough.
Actually, he had several herniated discs around the last competition. Due to injuries, he is not so good as he was. And there is no way to not get caught if you are competing in the Olympics and use doping. There is a list of forbidden substances, and all lifters are being tested on those. The laboratory test proves who was using doping and who is not. There is no such thing as "someone just did not get caught".
there are 1000 ways to cheat the tests
5:16 shows you where those olympic titles went.
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Getting caught for PEDs in olympics is politics...
It wouldn't be if corruption wasn't involved
Might be an unpopular opinion, but bowing to the IOC and the Olympics is a mistake. They are the most corrupt sports organization ever, which is saying something. The Olympics’ sheen was removed a long time ago and weightlifting is used to demonstrate that the IOC is actively controlling PEDs to mask other more popular events (track, cough, cough) where athletes blast and never are caught. They can then trot out weightlifting to demonstrate their virtue.
Sometimes you just have to admit you’ve outgrown something. That is the case of weightlifting and the Olympics. Time to move on and chase bigger opportunities. No matter what your opinion of Crossfit, their marketing and opportunity for athletes are incredible. The Olympics seeks to subjugate weightlifting, its time it seeks its own identity, as the two are no longer compatible
That's a fair argument. All of my top lifters train because they want to one day be Olympians and that is why so many countries invest so much money into corruption because they see Olympic medals as the highest representation of National pride. It is an interesting argument to have, but I think Olympic Weightlifting is good for the Olympics.