I've owned 3 Harleys ('93 Softail Custom, '96 Road King and a '04 V-Rod) as well as most recently a 2006 Goldwing. I just traded the Goldwing for a 2012 Victory Cross Country. It is without a doubt the most comfortable and most fun bike I've ever ridden. Perfect balance in the curves and can carry 586 lbs. - that's more than the Goldwing or Road King. Rock on Victory!!!
I have logged over 100K miles on Harleys, only replace 1 stator and a clutch cable. Glad Victory and Indian are making good bikes too, but I like my H-D's
brentmann I've got an '86 Sportster I bought in '87. Has over 96,000 miles on it. While I think they moved the stator on the Sportster later on, mine is behind the clutch, farther away than even the Victory. And the one stator failure I had was a short. Turned out it was a tear in the wire on the outside of the grommet in the back of the chaincase. The stator itself was fine.My bike hasn't seen the inside of a dealer since 1988, and then I made 'em give me my money back. Simple is better.
@ArizonaVictory U say HD has problems with stators failing , My 03 Wideglide has got the original one. No problems with the primary chain either. Are there any good features on a HD that u might want to point out? BTW I havnt had any problems at all with this bike, had since new 62000 mi
Perfectly said! Harley definitely has the knowledge and ability to do all the things you mentioned. And people complain about them not doing it, but there's no reason to. The guy said, about Victory, 'If it ain't broke'. Same with Harley. I have never had one single second of trouble from mine and I ride her hard! Actually I had more trouble with both my Ninja and Gixxer. Plus no bike made holds value like a Harley. Proven fact. And you're so right on target about Ducati! Bad reliability.
The reason Harley can't reengineer their engines to be better is its customer base. If you changed something as simple as the the starter location, you'd have the fan base in an uproar about it. "Thats not a Harley, they have their starters in the back". HD also didn't have the advantage of a hugely successful parent company to float it along and foot the bill for designing an engine from the ground up. Nor did they have the advantage of having everyone else's engineering and experience of almost 100 years of V-twin engines to copy and/or improve. Victory's are great machines, I had a 2000 V92C. My problem with them is they just don't support their older bikes at all. Try to find ANY part for an older V92 that isn't used. You can't. 5 years from now when they change frames again, try to find a part for your 2014 Boardwalk. Bet you have a hell of a time.
Not saying Victory is a bad bike or anything, but the mechanic neglects to mention that a chain drive is the most efficient way to transfer power. You get less parasitic horsepower loss with a chain (even less with a belt) and you don't get the harmonics caused by the gears. You also have less rotating mass with a chain. Having said that, gears are more reliable. HD's stator burns out not due to heat, but due to water getting past an improperly installed stator plug causing it to short out; however, the plug location could obviously be better. I won't make any excuses for the HD starter setup, other than it was an afterthought from the AMF era when kick-start was standard and electric start was optional. I am glad Victory (and Indian) are in the market and doing so well because they will force HD to become more competitive. HD's new water-cooled bikes are proof of that.
I just can't get over how the Vision touring bike looks like it's straight out of the Jetson's, I hate it... the other models look pretty cool but I'll stick with my 09 Ultra Classic FLHTCU. Honestly I did a 103" - 95 hp/ 109tq to it so I could safely pass when necessary when two up and loaded down. I think you really need at least that if not more. I've done a lot of other things as well to make it fit me and my likes better. I have learned some things about the Twin Cam I'm not impressed with but I'll deal with it. I really just love the bike and it's classic styling. We've taken it coast to coast and a whole lot more. (Rant about to begin) - My local dealer in Wichita KS, Alef's H-D can kiss my Ass. (5 min from my house) After spending over 35K with them over a couple of years, when I didn't have them do my 103 they wouldn't dyno it.. even if I signed a waver that if it blew up I wouldn't hold them responsible...I dropped the F Bomb about 5 times and said I'd never be back, that was 3 yrs ago and I never have. Topeka Ks Harley Davidson, 2hrs away and always worth it to see and deal with them. Oh and they had no problem taking my $$ and dialed it in on their Dyno... rant over... As far a Victory/Polaris I have an RZR XP900 and there's no way I'd leave that at their shop... Anyway, to each their own and keep the rubber side down!!! Oh, and watch out for the freaking retards doing everything but paying attention to the road... I had a personnel exp in 08, changed mine my family"s life forever...
Looks are subjective and do nothing for the overall handling and reliability of a bike. The problem with harleys, and you have wrote what you have done to correct this, are the built in inherent problems that they can't seem to over come. For a company to be in business over 100 years, they should have their products figured out and nobody should be able to touch them in performance and reliability! Yet all other surpass them in both! My bitch with harley, is that they don't want to evolve to become the best they could be, rather let it up to the consumer to upgrade everything to make it what it already should have been to begin with! Supporting a worthless thoughtless company such as harley does nothing to help them to improve. We should all boycott until they figure out that we aren't going to settle for the shit they have been producing! I own a motorcycle shop, we repair all brands, and I can honestly say I am very disappointed with the build quality of harleys, and their failure to progress when better technologies exist that would improve their design. The almighty dollar seems to be the factor with them and their resistance to change. Worry about their customer base is bullshit, because so many are after the best to be had, that is why Victory and Indian are the hottest thing right now, along with the others that sell as well. So the old excuse that if harleys change they will loose their customer base is total bullshit!
I agree with what you are saying, I had to do some of the things to mine just so it would get out of the way of it'self 2 up loaded for a trip..lol. I love the style of it and will most likely have this bike for some time. I have an H-D dealer 5 min from my house "Alefs" and choose to drive 2 plus hrs to Topeka H-D to do my business. I haven't stepped tires on their property in almost 2 yrs. They wouldn't dyno my 103 because they didn't build it... I'd spent over 35K with them in the previous 2 or 3 yrs. I said I'd never be back, they said "ok" Topeka H-D had no problem taking my money and did a great job ... When it comes to cruisers, the Victory High Ball has my interest for a second ride.. If I'm ever going to buy a new touring V Twin, I may have to test a new Victory... I jst have my FLHTCU where I want it, and I love the look ;-)
Kevin Bladsacker That interesting, I posted a comment about that same thing about a 2yrs ago and they deleted it, because I bashed them for not doing their fact checking current day front wheel drive car still use chain drive in their transmissions They claim 1938 Nash was the last year for car makers to use it
Thanks for producing these informative videos. Product sales aside, there's a lot of good information to be gained here for the motorcycle engine layman.
When I was shopping for a Victory Motorcycle I watched all 5 of these episodes. I'm now convinced I'm riding a technologically superior bike. However, are the new Indian's inferior with their pushrod technology and chain primary? It's my understanding the 111 thunderstroke was designed by polaris from the ground up. Sharing many of the 106 engineers. Or are those things only bad for Harley's and customs?
47% of ALL bikes on the road in the US are Harleys , how do they keep selling so many bikes if they fall apart after 20K miles ? Victorys not a bad bike but it ain't head and shoulders above a Harley , the market certainly doesn't reflect that.
HD is way over rated...Victories, Yamaha,Honda etc are far more affordable reliable and look better...plus I have no FAT chick too put on the back seat to match my lard ass which I don't have either.
Harley is going down. And that's just the truth! Your 'all american made' bike is actually 43% american made.....just because the bike is ASSEMBLED in the US doesn't mean that it's american made. Why would you go and buy this shitty outdated bike! Because it says HD on it?? That's fucking stupid if you ask me. Indian and Victory are 98% american made, and many people are FAR more satisfied with those bikes once they finally decide to get off their Harleys and give the other bikes a shot.
HD owner here... ALL Harley's are simply a big boat anchor on 2 wheels. That's it. There are 2 reasons why people like me own Harley-Davidsons... 1) The sound and 2) the people. There are Sportbike, Adventurebike, Enduro, Cruisers, Ninjabikes, and whatever else, and THEN there are Harley's. They are their own class and always will be. I own 1 Harley, 1 Dualsport, and another Cruiser, so don't think I play the favoritism game.
Now this is what I'm talking about .. Brilliant simple and excellent expose' .. I would like to encourage victory to come up with a something on the idea of a dirt or a street tracker.
Zone Television Media Moving the stator (and the rest of the motorcycles) is _exactly_ what race bike builders (and road based superbike replicas built by HTV Blu!!) do to make their bikes MUCH more reliable. Manufacturers don't. Whether this is because, as they claim, it is not necessary for road based machines or simply to ensure the requirement for servicing, is open to argument! Or perhaps it's clear why. Incidentally, with sports bikes Yamaha are most guilty for stupid placement (road not race though obviously.) I tend to use a company named West Country Windings to build custom stators that work much more reliably and site them more sensibly. Interesting video, thanks.
Zone Television Media Also, ever heard of Mule? They (he, actually) build some beautiful customs, I'd like to copy! I suspect you'll like them. www.mulemotorcycles.net/
I try like hell to understand why there is so much loyalty to a company that makes the crap that they do. Again, if you have had good luck, that's awesome. I'm speaking from a mechanic point of view, and I also have been riding for 36 years. I currently have 70K on a turbo'd 300+ horse Hayabusa, which is completely stock internally. We can't get a 100 horse from a harley without spending a fortune to upgrade it's internals. Not everyone needs that much power, but 100 horse isn't that much.
I used to own a 2012 Soft tail. Now I own a 2014 Victory Highball. The Victory has more power out of the box but their is a huge difference in craftsmanship between the two - The HD virtually had zero plastic parts on it and just felt like more of a solid bike. My Victory is 2 months old and already in the shop getting transmission work done. It shifts like hell and giving false neutrals. I have done the research and this seems to be the norm with Victory. I don't care what anyone says, you do get what you pay for. Not to mention that the HD holds their value more than any other bike, I still got 18 grand from insurance when I totaled my HD. Needless to say, my next bike will be another HD.
Really? That's sad to read. I own a Dyna Super Glide and was hoping to get a Victory HighBall myself...I've been reading the transmissions are a problem though (like you just posted) sounds like I might be keeping my trusty carbed Dyna after all...
Im new to bikes, always liked the sound of a harley but heard they had a lot of reliability issues from guys who had them. Most of my harley riding friends have an import bike as well. There are styling reasons that people like Harley, but after discovering the Victory bikes, im impressed by the engineering as well as style! Best thing is, its US made not an import. Soon as I scratch some cash together im seriously considering a Victory bike!
Victory is just one of many Harley wannabes. There is NOTHING like a Harley Davidson regardless of what ANYONE says. Victory is a poor mans Harley. I already know of more then one HD that would own this Victory. Get real people and stop your crying. I know it sucks because you cant afford a Harley Davidson but thats life for you. This bike is a copy of what harleys have ALWAYS BEEN,
Lol! Motor issues after 20K on a Harley. Oh my my, ya right. He is a very good Victory salesman though! I have multiple Harley's (softail, v-rod) and NO issues ever at any mileage. My father in-law has a Victory, nice bike, but not good looking and it uses very cheap parts. Feels more like a four wheeler quality and not road worthy materials. Not to mention a Victory will cost you every penny (save for maybe a few less) as a Harley. My father in-law paid $20k for his Cross Country and I paid the same for my softail custom......both brand new from local dealerships. LIsten guys and gals, ride what YOU want. YOU have to make that payment every month. Who cares, Ford or Chevy. We're both driving on the road!!??
I second that! Harley Dealers are crazy ridiculous. They lie, and give the Motor Co a bad rep. All vehicles have their issues. Not possible to not on a 100% mechanical machine. Just not possible.
talk about a biased video lol. I've ridden every manufacturer out there and I'm going to say it. Harley's are the easiest to work on by far. Also hands down the best sounding bike. If I want a performance driven bike I'll go back to my japanese liter bike and blast off. Won't sway this guy away, plus victories bikes look like they are more for a runway fashion show then getting bugs stuck on it.
shouldn't you have "no worries" about my comment buds? It's my personal opinion. I've actually raced supersport and liter bikes in ontario and probably have a better understanding of a bike then you and your everyday kia. I've also built vtwins from the ground up. Get a life bud. I just didn't like the biased slandering attack ad that victory is trying to pull off here.
Andrew James Check out all the motorcycle magazines who compare Harleys to bikes from other manufacturers. These bikes mechanically outclassed the Harley with more power and greater comfort and refinement but the magazine still made the harley win for being a harley. That's bias and obvious Harley paying the reviewers off.
Definitely a better primary drive and starter setup. Also the primary adjusters on the later Harleys are not hydraulic as you say. They're mechanical and suck. The chain sometimes is too loose and others times it's to tight. When it's too tight it has no way of loosening and you wind up riding around with a tight primary chain. And by the way the Harley V-rod does have a gear drive primary and It's better than the Victory. They don't have an idler in the middle to reverse the rotation. They reverse the rotation of the Engine instead.
with the Victory Stator and Clutch being cooled with 5 quarts of constantly cooled oil I am sure you can seehow the stator and clutch are kept cooler and thus not prone to failures.
That is funny! When harley has been bailed out numerous times, including twice recently! If harley was worth a shit, they would never need to be bailed out financially, and they would set the standard that every other manufacture would be trying to catch up to, rather then the other way around! How many years, decades before harley goes water cooled? OHHH wait, finally this next production year they are offering water cooled heads! WTF only about 4 decades behind the imports!
As a Harley Rider, I enjoyed the detail in this vid. Saying that HD still does something because they want the income from repairs isn't provable, but comparisons like this are technically interesting. I like the idea that another quality motorcycle is being built in the US, but knocking Harleys won't help Victory. Personally I would consider buying a Vic if it had more attractive styling. It's not news that chain-driven primaries and clunky solenoid starters are old technology.
so basically he said if it aint broke dont fix it hmmm gee wonder why harley still use chain drive i never had one go bad on me same with the stator placement and starter so basically this guy is full of shit come back in 50 years of road driving and tell me if this new thing is still running and how much they change it to Improve upon
I got over a 100k miles on my Honda and its still runs like new other than a couple new batteries and 2 sets of plugs it never needs work outside the standard fluid changes. Guess thats why Honda stands for Harley Owners Need a Dependable Alternative. Harley is like the dumb old timer that is stuck in his ways that everyone tolerates if a person is lookin for a good bike there are much better choices than a harley.
I was raised with Harley Davidson in N.J.. But the fact is that they break often and are over priced. Victory is going to be the winner. Thanks for informative video.
Still easier to work on a Harley and you can do a lot of the work yourself. If something goes wrong on this engine which it will. They have to pull the whole engine out of work on it. You're talking between 3,000 or $4,000 for some simple thing like a valve job. But of course he's not going to tell you that.
Lol have fun buying that new $1500 machine to work on your abs brakes. "Atleast you can work on them yourself" GTFOH. Face it, newer bikes are horrible to work on...period...
I hope Victory continues to focus on the ride..and not the marketing,t shirt ,image market.Im glad to whitness the birth of a new icon (even though the masses dont know it yet)I think its exciting,and i plan on giving my daily driver to my son ...and his grand kids will own my beat up,battled,road scared Vic some day!
My brother had trouble with his Victory Cross Country Starter after it's first year and it took two dealers and two months and the factory hot line for them to acknowledge the that the starter was the problem. He was told for starter longevity do not stab at the button. Hold t down until the engine is running. So they essentially put the blame on his operation of the motorcycle. Aside from that he has been very happy with his bike and never stops bragging about how technologically superior it is to a Harley Davidson. I like all motorcycles but I have to agree that the HD designs are either to milk service money from their customers or built more for the mechanic that like to turn wrenches than the rider who just wants to ride. Or maybe they prefer selling motor-clothes?
My friend has an Electra glide. He was rolling down the interstate for about a 20 mile stretch exit to exit. When he got to his exit he went to down shift and realized that his entire shift linkage...shift arm and tie rod...had vibrated loose and fell off of the bike some time during that 20 mile stretch between exits. No manufacturer is with out a single horror story. The best part is....every time he came to my house before that happened and especially since. I would look at his bike vibrating away in my driveway and I would say aren't you afraid something is just going to fly off of that paint shaker and kill some innocent by-stander. His standard reply F**K YOU!
Engaged in the one way clutch so you don't really have anything moving unless you engage the starter button. The reason for this eliminated a lot of moving parts especially the starter soleniod and other componenets that fail. The Victory starter is so simple and it fits every Victory ever made. In 13 years servicing them I have yet to have to replace a starter.
Simply put, Harley is all about pushing the Harley image. They spend 10 times more money than any other motorcycle manufacturer on advertising. The other manufacturers spend 10 times more on research and development. Harley; " How can we keep selling people the same old shit"? Other manufacturers; "How can we improve our product"?
I fix bikes and see the failures of harleys most of all. It's the same shit year after fucking year. Pathetic as hell. Stamped steel clutch baskets coming apart, tensioners on both the primary and the cams failing. It's all we see is harley malfunctions. If you ask me they are an embarrassment to our country to say "Made in USA" They suck
I have been looking at both Harley and Victory. I have to say that I do love the Victory engine, but the overall appearance of the bike is horrible. The rear fended sit about a foot and a half away from the rear tire to give it a longer look. Also the huge rear tail light really doesn't look good. I did like that the Victory models are not tanks to lift, and seem a lot more comfortable to spread out on without spending tons of money on extra parts. After comparing prices, the Victory is no
Hmmm. I'm a harley lover and I don't hate these videos Mal. Everything he says, in this segment anyway, is true. Engineering wise harley is waaaaay behind the curve. Rode a Victory 106 police bike last year and it was the most un-impressive bike I've ever had my azz on. That's the truth. Victories sales and re-sale value will never compete with the motor company. Ever. I know it's perplexing to folks like yourself how that can be. It's like the old saying goes...If I have to explain, you won't understand.
Tired of hearing the resale value crap! Everyone and their mother rides a harley! If your trying to sell your road glide for 20k there will 100 others who need money and will sell it for 15k! Back in the day the resale value may have been true but not any more. Especially now that victory is out there making great bikes. I love Harley but I'm glad victory came along to give them a shove to make a better bike!
I ride a 2012 Cross Country. I regularly get 40-50 MPG, easily. Since it's fuel injected, you can set the Victory Cross Country's LCD display to show you how many miles per gallon you're getting while you ride. So you can monitor efficiency you're getting at all times. Like pretty much every Victory owner, I love mine. Rock solid, reliable, and the best handling of any bike in its class.
Have had HD's for a long time, never had stator problems, Naturally new technology will be better. HD's been owning from the get. Ive ripped the fuk out of them, been just fine. Your Polaris engines may be up on new spec, but HD shit works just fine. Stop trying to degrade HD. It works...
Wow I was considering a Harley thinking they have improved their technology, but I can't afford constant rebuilds. That chain is going to be expensive unless you do your own work.
I own a hammer and couldn't be happier. Harley could make a ledger version of the Sportster motor because it's pretty much bulletproof, but they won't because they'll lose millions in service fees. I do want an old school shove with a kick.
I guess the guy forgot to mention that the stators on harleys are cooled by the primary case fluid. So it does get cooled off pretty well... As for the starters being engaged all the time, I wonder how many one-way bearing failures they've had that they aren't mentioning. Both bikes have pro's and con's
Awesome insight thank you for your open explanations concerning internal works in comparison to Harley,obviously a better design and superior engineering .....Please forgive me my fellow Harley owners.
That's not why people buy a Harley, having owned many myself. Most of us don't have a piece of tin we can flash a cop so going at blazing speed is irrelevant. Proving you can blow past a Harley, might impress you, but doesn't impress Harley owners, We like to gather in bunches and ride together doing the speed limit, or just slightly over and the Harley is built just right for that. As far as the engine modifications over the Harley, still not enough. Who cares if you don't have rocker arms, relocated the air intake etc.. We like to get together at a friends house, tinker with our under-performing, over-heating, 100+ year old technology dinosaurs. The more that's wrong with them, the more we have to work on them, the longer we can stay, the less time we have to spend with that yapping nag at home. No one complains more about Harleys, than Harley owners. Victory is really having a fight with itself by trying to show how it out performs a Harley, we know that. We're not looking for super performance, we're looking for a bike that can do 60 - 70 mph that sounds good, looks good and has a history because that is what attracts those girls with the little cut-off jeans that want to go for a ride and push those little air bags right against your back. Me, I dumped the yapping nag, I'm too old for the girls in the cut-off jeans and too old to be sweating my ass off on an air-cooled 2013 Road Glide or Victory so I traded it in for a 2013 Honda F6B. Six cylinders of water-cooled, bullet-proof rocketry, with wide seat for the plump girls, a thing of beauty
We ride what works! I spent many years working on both my and friends rather then riding. I owned a harley also. I will never make THAT mistake again! Now we all ride what works, and yes you are correct, speed isn't the answer, but having more power makes it a lot easier to ride, not having to downshift for big hills or to pass someone etc... I come into town in 4th gear and can turn corners in 4th gear without lugging my engine, it does it with ease! My harley, I had to shift shift shift shift and FINALLY hit the speed limit, and when I had a passenger, it was that much worse! I appreciate that Victory and Indian are kicking harleys ass, it's about time an American based company succeeds!
I think competition is fine, especially when you were the only game in town your quality tends to take a dive. My basic point was that this Victory dealer is saying how outdated this is and how much better that is when Harley people already know all that. They know very well what an antiquated piece of crap it is but they're not going to de-brand themselves from Harley for a Victory, since Victory has no brand. All it is is a non-Harley it isn't anything. As far as speed goes there have been Goldwings out there for 30 years and they haven't jumped because Harley is VERY good at selling a lifestyle, maybe the best.
So in a nut shell, Harley owners "know" they are paying more for under powered, paint shaker, maintenance queen motorcycles...........and they like it that way.....HaHaHa. You hear that Victory.....your bikes are just too stinking reliable? Why would you want to ride a bike that you could be blowing all of your money on and wasting all of your time working on instead? WOW I have never heard anyone seriously suggest that Harley owners spend more on Harley because needing more mechanical attention is a good thing.
It's true, case in point, they just recalled ALL the 2014 Touring Models for a clutch problem that could cause crashes. Meanwhile last year there was a similar recall for the same problem. Harley has always used the public for their R & D. Are these guys going to get rid of their bikes and go to a Victory because their clutch sucks, no way, they would rather do the recall and stay on the Harley. Victory is not a real alternative to a Harley as it's just another V-Twin air-cooled bike with way less dealers than Harley. I looked at a Victory when I was looking to dump the my 2013 Road Glide but all I was looking at was a similar priced Harley lookalike .air-cooled V-Twin loaded with plastic. Now the F6B is the true alternative to Harley and Victory and any other Touring air-cooled bike. Dealer-wise, reliability, power, handling, there is no comparison. First break in maintenance is 4,000 miles and cost only $162.00. Harley sells a great lifestyle with a solid pedigree and an OK bike and Victory doesn't have the lifestyle or the pedigree, they may have the bike but that's not enough. That's why I say they're really fighting with themselves Now with Indian out they are like the red-headed, left-handed step child.
Hummm... evidently you haven't looked at the price of Victory. From a $13,000 Vegas to a $26,000 Arlen. Harley has a complete lower priced entry level line. Victory doesn't. Victory's models start at Harley's Dyna level, at the same price - $13,000. Yamaha's cruisers reach over $20,000. You are 100% incorrect. It's obvious you're just a Harley hater; Nobody with bike knowledge and common sense would call them a glorified law mower. Don't get me wrong, I like Victory. But I prefer Harley.
No where in this video does it say the victorys have gear drivin cams. They have overhead cams. Mike shultz even said so. Listen up. Dont knock it just because its newer technology than a harley. And more reliable. If you wanna ride get a vic. If you want a show peice. Something you can polish. Show everyone you have a bike then get a harley
It's just too bad you don't expand your horizons and find out what other bikes are like to ride. I feel sorry for you stuck in one type of bike, especially one that is so lame. I've ridden nearly all brands and most models, harleys are the worst excuse for a motorcycle I have ever encountered. You are missing out on some awesome fun riding that garbage. I think you guys are the ultimate pretenders. Loud pipes to simulate power. Black leather, tassels, it's all a pretend lifestyle.
i spoke to a CVO owner yesterday, and he told me that the CVO 110 did not have much more power than the 103. I was shocked. He spent $43,000 on a motorcycle/brand and couldnt perceive any power increase in the bigger motor. Harley is going to be in big trouble if they dont wake up and see what's going on around them: everyone is making better bikes than them. it's going to catch up with them sooner or later.
so if victorys are "head and shoulders" better than harleys. than why are indians (owned by polaris) at least $10,000 more expensive than harleys equivolent model? indians are alot more comparable to harleys than victorys. so thats basically polaris saying that the indian is twice as expensive as a victory because its twice as nice as the victory, even though its more similar to a harley....
same way if you want a beautiful Italian bike, a Ducati would seem to be the choice, but if you want an old school motorcycle, where every component looks vintage but still functions perfectly well for road riding a Guzzi would be the only option. Depends what you value yourself - there is no right or wrong choice in the end! just don't dish others cause they want something different, a cbr600 has a much better spec sheet than my Sportster, but it just dosent interest me in the slightest!
To be fair to HD, the bikes do evolve every year, they now have decent tyres, brakes, suspension, efi, integrated LED brake and turn signals, you can buy SE exhausts and super-tuners, however much rightly stays the same over the decades, because people love the purity and continuity of a Harley, such as the general shape of the bikes and the big air-cooled, push rod ohv twins. Yes you could buy a faster, cheaper to maintain american bike, ie Victory, but you won't be riding the real thing.
I honestly don't understand how you can say that using the same technology for 100years is seen as a positive!?! What a croc of horse S%#$. Bikes can still be made with a vintage feel WITHOUT the un-necessary 100year old now to be inferior build technology. There is no excuse for HD not moving on with better technology. And there is only one reason and that is to make more money off the consumer for servive and parts. HD lover need to wake up. And gp by a victory if they want made in USA!!!
The biking world would be a much worse place without Victory, and Harley could certainly do with more performance orientated bikes. However the focus on bashing HD for still using much of the same technology for 100+ years is to miss the point that many riders see this as a positive, they like the vintage feel of the bikes, and the fact they are not a new "fake" retro bike but have tangible links to the first Harleys produced, this is quite unique and a positive, as Harley well know..
Your right that bearing could wear out and need replaced eventually along with the wheel bearings and clutch. Now, what about the primary, stator, belt replacement, plastic tensioner feet and why and the guy in my town that can't keep the damn thing running or my old boss's 20K Harley that had to get hauled in with no oil pressure. But your right, you don't want to spin a bearing around too much, it could wear out.
Obviously this guy knows his stuff. Is it one sided, sure, but is any of it not true? Just about every Harley my friends have owned needed a stator by 20,000 miles. That's just a plain fact. I traded my Road Glide for a new Cross Country last week. I test drove one in Sturgis and couldn't believe I was on an American made, air-cooled, v-twin. I was so used to the lack of refinement with Harleys, I never expected the Victory to be that much better. But they are! I'm not looking back!
The engine tech looks cool but I just can't get past the look. Last summer I considered the new BMW, GoldWing, Vision & the Electra Glide. The BMW was very strong but not our cup of tea. I own a 96 Wing & wanted to try out the newer 1800 but no luck getting a Honda shop to let me test ride even a used one. Vision, not interested. Sounds good on paper but the styling is way out there. A 106 in a Ultra Classic style frame would be cool. Wound up with a new Ultra Classic & happy with my selection.
victorys are modern, more dependable, technology. harley is classic style, feel, and they do that on purpose. with porsche as their partners in crime they could easily modernise their engines but then they would be just like every other bike company. Why be the same when you could be different? ducatis arent know for being dependible just like harley, but people still buy them because they have that perfect attention to detail and unmatchable beauty
sister, mother, brother, father, grandma, grandpa, wife and me ride harley so aparently its more than just had its day. its still going stronger then any other bike company out. I hope victory can pull out some huge sales and be huge too. Im just sick of everyone ripping on harleys! their bikes and victories bikes are technically two totally different bikes yet everyone wants to compare them.
I don't think a comparison is fair when you are only talking negatively about the other product. A good comparison would be to show both the pros and cons. This to me is typical bashing that has cheapen the product and the merit of the company. It is really sad because victory does make a quality product but with victory having to result to bashing its competition has completely taken the desire of owning one out of my mind. Dick Scott's sales them here in Michigan and I will not make a retu
My first bike was a old Italian 250 sprint. I have'nt bought a harley since.I refuse to be raped by a corperation so I can say my scooters made in the USA. Finally someone made an american bike you can ride.I bought a new Victory in 2005, 30,000 trouble free miles later: Ilove it. besides If I rode A harley someone might think I'm a 55 year old yuppie who just bought a 33,000 dollar HD so he can be a biker now. I'd much rather stand out than fit in.
I will say this for arguement sake... EVERYONE that has compared their bikes to harley, has failed. They are the first, and will probably be the last. And they are, hands down the most beautiful bike in the world. Which on average is anywhere between 75-90% the reason for a person chosing any particular bike... LOOKS. Power, performance, handling, and reliability goes to victory... Hands down.
They might have better technology but I personally find them very ugly, especially the touring ones. I'll stick with Triumph and Harley. Extremely happy with my dyna. Ive taken it across the country twice now. No problems what so ever and I find it very comfortable. All personal preference and taste & to each his own. All that matters is that you ride.
Whats so bad about a chain drive tranny? Most bikes still use chains to drive the wheels. most engines in cars (including my Ford Focus) have chains that drive the camshafts. So im not sure why having a chain inside your engine is good, why a chain driving your wheels is good, but a chain driving your gears is horribly wrong. Its the same principle in all 3 applications.
Don't get me wrong, I like all the other innovations that are real improvements in reliability. I just don't get this one (the always spinning starter) as being a selling point. If anything they should keep quiet about it. Again I ask, is there really that big a problem with people accidentally hitting the start button while the motor is running?
I don't understand why any company preaching technology and innovation would compare themselves with Harley. Most people who buy Harley's do not buy them because they want a technologically advanced motorcycle. I don't think victory bikes are better just different. Victories are super cool and I don't need to say anything about another brand to feel that way.
I really do dig Victory. I own a harley and wish I owned a Victory. I think that in time Victory will NOT need to do the Pepsi challenge with harley. Soon everyone will figure out this brand of bike is the best on the road. I would gladly hand over my harley for any victory on the road today, tomorrow or next year...
You are correct, there is no substitute for a decent bike, it's just too bad you don't have one. 30 years of riding a lame boring substitute for a real bike. Life is too short for that. Get out there and experience some fun, and ride some good bikes for a change. Nobody needs to suffer like you have!
The chain drive cams in all Motorcycles/.cars do not get the torque loads that you get on the transmission, Now a lot of vehicles use chains and even motorcycles to drive the rear wheels but the best way to drive the transmission from the engine is gears not a chain that constantly has to be adjusted
Besides these victory bikes and the Japanese cruisers are nothing more than clones trying to appeal to Harley buyers. They are all slow and don't handle very well might as well get the better looking one. That Victory Vision is horrible I'd rather be stuck on the side of the road on an Electra Glide
This video is obvious one sided but was also informative. Let's face it Harley still uses old technology. Maybe they feel if it ain't broke don't fix it...but bottom line its still old technology...chain drive primaries...the video does make alot if powerful points. Even HD owners have to admit this.
I'm convinced. My next bike will be a Victory. I have been riding Suzukis and Kawasakis for over 30 years. Still, I can't prove this, but I'm pretty sure my KZ550 that I bought new in '84 had a CHAIN primary drive. KZ550's were regarded as indestructible back then. I'm pretty sure chains have been used since 1939.
Harleys have there own charm...but then again,i like old vibrating rattle traps.If im going to live cheap as hell for a year to save enough down payment to perm ditch my car,im going to go with the Victory!
@mahmahmonkey What does Harley have??? Do your homework. 72% of new motorcycles sold last year weren't Harley... Not a very impressive market share... How much long can Harley sell a 50 Horse Power bikes for $20,000?
I've always loved the sound and look of Harley Davidsons, they got me interested in customs in the first place. However, since Victory got on the scene i felt the modern design reliability and performance spoke volumes. So 4 days ago i bought myself a brand new Vegas 8-ball with stage 1 and a 2 into 1 cobra exhaust and i couldn't be happier! I've found MY brand and it is Victory. The most important thing is we have the freedom to chose what we wanna ride. Stick together bikers.
I couldn't see polaris cutting victory. They're #2 in sales, only being behind harley davidson. No other company has achieved that in less than 15 years of operation.
@TheReaISlacker Why does everyone compare themselves to Harley if they know they're superior? It's kinda comical. Victory will never have what HD has achieved, never.
if Harley changes the way the bikes are made I don't think they will sound like a Harley anymore. I want it to sound like a Harley. Nothing sounds like a Harley.
@ArizonaVictory Other way... GM and HD have people who can make 600 Million $ from nothing :) Polaris and Ford cant do that, they have to work work for it ;)
The only thing that Harley has over Victory is brand-self-indentification. Harley owners think of themselves as Harley owners and introduce themselves as Harley owners (and they'll get the tattoo to show it). A Victory rider typically refers to themselves as a motorcyclist. All the superior tech in the world won't change the minds of people who don't want to know about it.
Doesnt matter what you ride as long as your riding. I personally own a Harley and absolutely love it. Owned several bikes before it but my Harley is my favorite!
The number one reason Harley riders refuse to switch: They would have to replace their entire wardrobe! :-)
I've owned 3 Harleys ('93 Softail Custom, '96 Road King and a '04 V-Rod) as well as most recently a 2006 Goldwing. I just traded the Goldwing for a 2012 Victory Cross Country. It is without a doubt the most comfortable and most fun bike I've ever ridden. Perfect balance in the curves and can carry 586 lbs. - that's more than the Goldwing or Road King. Rock on Victory!!!
does that guy in blue on the right gotta piss?
I have logged over 100K miles on Harleys, only replace 1 stator and a clutch cable. Glad Victory and Indian are making good bikes too, but I like my H-D's
brentmann I've got an '86 Sportster I bought in '87. Has over 96,000 miles on it. While I think they moved the stator on the Sportster later on, mine is behind the clutch, farther away than even the Victory. And the one stator failure I had was a short. Turned out it was a tear in the wire on the outside of the grommet in the back of the chaincase. The stator itself was fine.My bike hasn't seen the inside of a dealer since 1988, and then I made 'em give me my money back. Simple is better.
I drive both. The Victory clunks just as loud when I put it in gear?
@ArizonaVictory U say HD has problems with stators failing , My 03 Wideglide has got the original one. No problems with the primary chain either. Are there any good features on a HD that u might want to point out? BTW I havnt had any problems at all with this bike, had since new 62000 mi
Perfectly said! Harley definitely has the knowledge and ability to do all the things you mentioned. And people complain about them not doing it, but there's no reason to. The guy said, about Victory, 'If it ain't broke'. Same with Harley. I have never had one single second of trouble from mine and I ride her hard! Actually I had more trouble with both my Ninja and Gixxer. Plus no bike made holds value like a Harley. Proven fact.
And you're so right on target about Ducati! Bad reliability.
I'll keep an open mind, ......and give Victory a chance. Let's see where they're at in 112 years.
+SEVENSIXTWO BYTHIRTYNINE I sure the hell hope they wouldn't be selling new antiques to idiots that are mechanically illiterate like harley does now!
The reason Harley can't reengineer their engines to be better is its customer base. If you changed something as simple as the the starter location, you'd have the fan base in an uproar about it. "Thats not a Harley, they have their starters in the back". HD also didn't have the advantage of a hugely successful parent company to float it along and foot the bill for designing an engine from the ground up. Nor did they have the advantage of having everyone else's engineering and experience of almost 100 years of V-twin engines to copy and/or improve. Victory's are great machines, I had a 2000 V92C. My problem with them is they just don't support their older bikes at all. Try to find ANY part for an older V92 that isn't used. You can't. 5 years from now when they change frames again, try to find a part for your 2014 Boardwalk. Bet you have a hell of a time.
Not saying Victory is a bad bike or anything, but the mechanic neglects to mention that a chain drive is the most efficient way to transfer power. You get less parasitic horsepower loss with a chain (even less with a belt) and you don't get the harmonics caused by the gears. You also have less rotating mass with a chain. Having said that, gears are more reliable. HD's stator burns out not due to heat, but due to water getting past an improperly installed stator plug causing it to short out; however, the plug location could obviously be better. I won't make any excuses for the HD starter setup, other than it was an afterthought from the AMF era when kick-start was standard and electric start was optional. I am glad Victory (and Indian) are in the market and doing so well because they will force HD to become more competitive. HD's new water-cooled bikes are proof of that.
Man so many HD Haters, Ha if do not like it do not buy it! But i will say it again if it where not for HD all these copys would not exist.
Bought a Vic rather than an HD after learning so much from Mike. Thanx for the vids.
I just can't get over how the Vision touring bike looks like it's straight out of the Jetson's, I hate it... the other models look pretty cool but I'll stick with my 09 Ultra Classic FLHTCU. Honestly I did a 103" - 95 hp/ 109tq to it so I could safely pass when necessary when two up and loaded down. I think you really need at least that if not more. I've done a lot of other things as well to make it fit me and my likes better. I have learned some things about the Twin Cam I'm not impressed with but I'll deal with it. I really just love the bike and it's classic styling. We've taken it coast to coast and a whole lot more. (Rant about to begin) - My local dealer in Wichita KS, Alef's H-D can kiss my Ass. (5 min from my house) After spending over 35K with them over a couple of years, when I didn't have them do my 103 they wouldn't dyno it.. even if I signed a waver that if it blew up I wouldn't hold them responsible...I dropped the F Bomb about 5 times and said I'd never be back, that was 3 yrs ago and I never have. Topeka Ks Harley Davidson, 2hrs away and always worth it to see and deal with them. Oh and they had no problem taking my $$ and dialed it in on their Dyno... rant over... As far a Victory/Polaris I have an RZR XP900 and there's no way I'd leave that at their shop... Anyway, to each their own and keep the rubber side down!!! Oh, and watch out for the freaking retards doing everything but paying attention to the road... I had a personnel exp in 08, changed mine my family"s life forever...
Looks are subjective and do nothing for the overall handling and reliability of a bike. The problem with harleys, and you have wrote what you have done to correct this, are the built in inherent problems that they can't seem to over come. For a company to be in business over 100 years, they should have their products figured out and nobody should be able to touch them in performance and reliability! Yet all other surpass them in both!
My bitch with harley, is that they don't want to evolve to become the best they could be, rather let it up to the consumer to upgrade everything to make it what it already should have been to begin with!
Supporting a worthless thoughtless company such as harley does nothing to help them to improve. We should all boycott until they figure out that we aren't going to settle for the shit they have been producing!
I own a motorcycle shop, we repair all brands, and I can honestly say I am very disappointed with the build quality of harleys, and their failure to progress when better technologies exist that would improve their design. The almighty dollar seems to be the factor with them and their resistance to change. Worry about their customer base is bullshit, because so many are after the best to be had, that is why Victory and Indian are the hottest thing right now, along with the others that sell as well. So the old excuse that if harleys change they will loose their customer base is total bullshit!
I agree with what you are saying, I had to do some of the things to mine just so it would get out of the way of it'self 2 up loaded for a trip..lol. I love the style of it and will most likely have this bike for some time. I have an H-D dealer 5 min from my house "Alefs" and choose to drive 2 plus hrs to Topeka H-D to do my business. I haven't stepped tires on their property in almost 2 yrs. They wouldn't dyno my 103 because they didn't build it... I'd spent over 35K with them in the previous 2 or 3 yrs. I said I'd never be back, they said "ok" Topeka H-D had no problem taking my money and did a great job ... When it comes to cruisers, the Victory High Ball has my interest for a second ride.. If I'm ever going to buy a new touring V Twin, I may have to test a new Victory... I jst have my FLHTCU where I want it, and I love the look ;-)
My Wrangler uses a chain to drive the transfer case. Just a wee bit more torque being transferred there perhaps than the motorcycles.
Kevin Bladsacker That interesting, I posted a comment about that same thing about a 2yrs ago and they deleted it, because I bashed them for not doing their fact checking current day front wheel drive car still use chain drive in their transmissions They claim 1938 Nash was the last year for car makers to use it
Thanks for producing these informative videos. Product sales aside, there's a lot of good information to be gained here for the motorcycle engine layman.
When I was shopping for a Victory Motorcycle I watched all 5 of these episodes. I'm now convinced I'm riding a technologically superior bike. However, are the new Indian's inferior with their pushrod technology and chain primary? It's my understanding the 111 thunderstroke was designed by polaris from the ground up. Sharing many of the 106 engineers. Or are those things only bad for Harley's and customs?
47% of ALL bikes on the road in the US are Harleys , how do they keep selling so many bikes if they fall apart after 20K miles ? Victorys not a bad bike but it ain't head and shoulders above a Harley , the market certainly doesn't reflect that.
HD is way over rated...Victories, Yamaha,Honda etc are far more affordable reliable and look better...plus I have no FAT chick too put on the back seat to match my lard ass which I don't have either.
That is funny Bruce.
Harley is going down. And that's just the truth! Your 'all american made' bike is actually 43% american made.....just because the bike is ASSEMBLED in the US doesn't mean that it's american made. Why would you go and buy this shitty outdated bike! Because it says HD on it?? That's fucking stupid if you ask me. Indian and Victory are 98% american made, and many people are FAR more satisfied with those bikes once they finally decide to get off their Harleys and give the other bikes a shot.
+DrumKiller2 Hate to disappoint you but it's highly unlikely that HD will go down in your life time.
HD owner here... ALL Harley's are simply a big boat anchor on 2 wheels. That's it. There are 2 reasons why people like me own Harley-Davidsons... 1) The sound and 2) the people. There are Sportbike, Adventurebike, Enduro, Cruisers, Ninjabikes, and whatever else, and THEN there are Harley's. They are their own class and always will be. I own 1 Harley, 1 Dualsport, and another Cruiser, so don't think I play the favoritism game.
Now this is what I'm talking about .. Brilliant simple and excellent expose' .. I would like to encourage victory to come up with a something on the idea of a dirt or a street tracker.
Zone Television Media Moving the stator (and the rest of the motorcycles) is _exactly_ what race bike builders (and road based superbike replicas built by HTV Blu!!) do to make their bikes MUCH more reliable. Manufacturers don't. Whether this is because, as they claim, it is not necessary for road based machines or simply to ensure the requirement for servicing, is open to argument!
Or perhaps it's clear why.
Incidentally, with sports bikes Yamaha are most guilty for stupid placement (road not race though obviously.)
I tend to use a company named West Country Windings to build custom stators that work much more reliably and site them more sensibly.
Interesting video, thanks.
Zone Television Media
Also, ever heard of Mule? They (he, actually) build some beautiful customs, I'd like to copy!
I suspect you'll like them.
www.mulemotorcycles.net/
I try like hell to understand why there is so much loyalty to a company that makes the crap that they do. Again, if you have had good luck, that's awesome. I'm speaking from a mechanic point of view, and I also have been riding for 36 years. I currently have 70K on a turbo'd 300+ horse Hayabusa, which is completely stock internally. We can't get a 100 horse from a harley without spending a fortune to upgrade it's internals. Not everyone needs that much power, but 100 horse isn't that much.
I used to own a 2012 Soft tail. Now I own a 2014 Victory Highball. The Victory has more power out of the box but their is a huge difference in craftsmanship between the two - The HD virtually had zero plastic parts on it and just felt like more of a solid bike. My Victory is 2 months old and already in the shop getting transmission work done. It shifts like hell and giving false neutrals. I have done the research and this seems to be the norm with Victory. I don't care what anyone says, you do get what you pay for. Not to mention that the HD holds their value more than any other bike, I still got 18 grand from insurance when I totaled my HD. Needless to say, my next bike will be another HD.
Really? That's sad to read. I own a Dyna Super Glide and was hoping to get a Victory HighBall myself...I've been reading the transmissions are a problem though (like you just posted) sounds like I might be keeping my trusty carbed Dyna after all...
And my Victory is in the shop again with more transmission issues and blown fork seals. Only 4,100 miles on it
Damn that sucks. Sorry to hear that Casey Grant . Victory sure looks promising, but I guess one should always take advertising with a grain of salt.
Im new to bikes, always liked the sound of a harley but heard they had a lot of reliability issues from guys who had them. Most of my harley riding friends have an import bike as well. There are styling reasons that people like Harley, but after discovering the Victory bikes, im impressed by the engineering as well as style! Best thing is, its US made not an import. Soon as I scratch some cash together im seriously considering a Victory bike!
Victory is just one of many Harley wannabes. There is NOTHING like a Harley Davidson regardless of what ANYONE says.
Victory is a poor mans Harley. I already know of more then one HD that would own this Victory.
Get real people and stop your crying. I know it sucks because you cant afford a Harley Davidson but thats life for you. This bike is a copy of what harleys have ALWAYS BEEN,
doesn't the 2000 Victory V92SC have a chain cam?
Lol! Motor issues after 20K on a Harley. Oh my my, ya right. He is a very good Victory salesman though! I have multiple Harley's (softail, v-rod) and NO issues ever at any mileage. My father in-law has a Victory, nice bike, but not good looking and it uses very cheap parts. Feels more like a four wheeler quality and not road worthy materials. Not to mention a Victory will cost you every penny (save for maybe a few less) as a Harley. My father in-law paid $20k for his Cross Country and I paid the same for my softail custom......both brand new from local dealerships. LIsten guys and gals, ride what YOU want. YOU have to make that payment every month. Who cares, Ford or Chevy. We're both driving on the road!!??
I second that! Harley Dealers are crazy ridiculous. They lie, and give the Motor Co a bad rep. All vehicles have their issues. Not possible to not on a 100% mechanical machine. Just not possible.
talk about a biased video lol. I've ridden every manufacturer out there and I'm going to say it. Harley's are the easiest to work on by far. Also hands down the best sounding bike. If I want a performance driven bike I'll go back to my japanese liter bike and blast off. Won't sway this guy away, plus victories bikes look like they are more for a runway fashion show then getting bugs stuck on it.
shouldn't you have "no worries" about my comment buds? It's my personal opinion. I've actually raced supersport and liter bikes in ontario and probably have a better understanding of a bike then you and your everyday kia. I've also built vtwins from the ground up. Get a life bud. I just didn't like the biased slandering attack ad that victory is trying to pull off here.
Andrew James Check out all the motorcycle magazines who compare Harleys to bikes from other manufacturers. These bikes mechanically outclassed the Harley with more power and greater comfort and refinement but the magazine still made the harley win for being a harley. That's bias and obvious Harley paying the reviewers off.
Definitely a better primary drive and starter setup. Also the primary adjusters on the later Harleys are not hydraulic as you say. They're mechanical and suck. The chain sometimes is too loose and others times it's to tight. When it's too tight it has no way of loosening and you wind up riding around with a tight primary chain. And by the way the Harley V-rod does have a gear drive primary and It's better than the Victory. They don't have an idler in the middle to reverse the rotation. They reverse the rotation of the Engine instead.
with the Victory Stator and Clutch being cooled with 5 quarts of constantly cooled oil I am sure you can seehow the stator and clutch are kept cooler and thus not prone to failures.
That is funny! When harley has been bailed out numerous times, including twice recently! If harley was worth a shit, they would never need to be bailed out financially, and they would set the standard that every other manufacture would be trying to catch up to, rather then the other way around! How many years, decades before harley goes water cooled? OHHH wait, finally this next production year they are offering water cooled heads! WTF only about 4 decades behind the imports!
As a Harley Rider, I enjoyed the detail in this vid. Saying that HD still does something because they want the income from repairs isn't provable, but comparisons like this are technically interesting. I like the idea that another quality motorcycle is being built in the US, but knocking Harleys won't help Victory. Personally I would consider buying a Vic if it had more attractive styling. It's not news that chain-driven primaries and clunky solenoid starters are old technology.
so basically he said if it aint broke dont fix it hmmm gee wonder why harley still use chain drive i never had one go bad on me same with the stator placement and starter so basically this guy is full of shit come back in 50 years of road driving and tell me if this new thing is still running and how much they change it to Improve upon
Honda S600 made through the 1960's!! Had a chain drive system.
I got over a 100k miles on my Honda and its still runs like new other than a couple new batteries and 2 sets of plugs it never needs work outside the standard fluid changes. Guess thats why Honda stands for Harley Owners Need a Dependable Alternative. Harley is like the dumb old timer that is stuck in his ways that everyone tolerates if a person is lookin for a good bike there are much better choices than a harley.
I was raised with Harley Davidson in N.J.. But the fact is that they break often and are over priced. Victory is going to be the winner. Thanks for informative video.
Still easier to work on a Harley and you can do a lot of the work yourself. If something goes wrong on this engine which it will. They have to pull the whole engine out of work on it. You're talking between 3,000 or $4,000 for some simple thing like a valve job. But of course he's not going to tell you that.
gearhead3081 ya its nice just take the gas tank off and you can rebuild the whole top end of a harley
you are correct that the engine has to be pulled for any major work, but the valves don't have to be adjusted because they are hydraulic.
Lol have fun buying that new $1500 machine to work on your abs brakes. "Atleast you can work on them yourself" GTFOH. Face it, newer bikes are horrible to work on...period...
KingJamesVL
gearhead3081 to be honest I bought an 04 Vegas new in Jan 05.... Haven't had a single mechanical issue in 10 years and road the shit out of it.
hd are still cooler
I'm sold. I wanted a Harley Davidson Street glide but now i want a Victory Cross Country. Better made, less maintenance, Better preforming. SOLD!!!
I hope Victory continues to focus on the ride..and not the marketing,t shirt ,image market.Im glad to whitness the birth of a new icon (even though the masses dont know it yet)I think its exciting,and i plan on giving my daily driver to my son ...and his grand kids will own my beat up,battled,road scared Vic some day!
My brother had trouble with his Victory Cross Country Starter after it's first year and it took two dealers and two months and the factory hot line for them to acknowledge the that the starter was the problem.
He was told for starter longevity do not stab at the button. Hold t down until the engine is running. So they essentially put the blame on his operation of the motorcycle.
Aside from that he has been very happy with his bike and never stops bragging about how technologically superior it is to a Harley Davidson.
I like all motorcycles but I have to agree that the HD designs are either to milk service money from their customers or built more for the mechanic that like to turn wrenches than the rider who just wants to ride. Or maybe they prefer selling motor-clothes?
My friend has an Electra glide. He was rolling down the interstate for about a 20 mile stretch exit to exit. When he got to his exit he went to down shift and realized that his entire shift linkage...shift arm and tie rod...had vibrated loose and fell off of the bike some time during that 20 mile stretch between exits. No manufacturer is with out a single horror story. The best part is....every time he came to my house before that happened and especially since. I would look at his bike vibrating away in my driveway and I would say aren't you afraid something is just going to fly off of that paint shaker and kill some innocent by-stander. His standard reply F**K YOU!
Engaged in the one way clutch so you don't really have anything moving unless you engage the starter button. The reason for this eliminated a lot of moving parts especially the starter soleniod and other componenets that fail. The Victory starter is so simple and it fits every Victory ever made. In 13 years servicing them I have yet to have to replace a starter.
I ride the original which is a Harley and do not need one of the copies ;-))
Simply put, Harley is all about pushing the Harley image. They spend 10 times more money than any other motorcycle manufacturer on advertising. The other manufacturers spend 10 times more on research and development.
Harley; " How can we keep selling people the same old shit"?
Other manufacturers; "How can we improve our product"?
I fix bikes and see the failures of harleys most of all. It's the same shit year after fucking year. Pathetic as hell. Stamped steel clutch baskets coming apart, tensioners on both the primary and the cams failing. It's all we see is harley malfunctions. If you ask me they are an embarrassment to our country to say "Made in USA" They suck
I have been looking at both Harley and Victory. I have to say that I do love the Victory engine, but the overall appearance of the bike is horrible. The rear fended sit about a foot and a half away from the rear tire to give it a longer look. Also the huge rear tail light really doesn't look good. I did like that the Victory models are not tanks to lift, and seem a lot more comfortable to spread out on without spending tons of money on extra parts. After comparing prices, the Victory is no
HONDA HAD CHAIN DRIVE AUTOMOBILES IN THE 1970'S
If it wasnt for Ronald Regan saving Harley Davidson there wouldnt be 110 yrs.
So what? I don't like the way a Victory looks. I love my Harley.
Hmmm. I'm a harley lover and I don't hate these videos Mal. Everything he says, in this segment anyway, is true. Engineering wise harley is waaaaay behind the curve. Rode a Victory 106 police bike last year and it was the most un-impressive bike I've ever had my azz on. That's the truth. Victories sales and re-sale value will never compete with the motor company. Ever. I know it's perplexing to folks like yourself how that can be. It's like the old saying goes...If I have to explain, you won't understand.
wade russell Allot of departments are switching to Vic police bikes because they are so unimpressive.?
Tired of hearing the resale value crap! Everyone and their mother rides a harley! If your trying to sell your road glide for 20k there will 100 others who need money and will sell it for 15k! Back in the day the resale value may have been true but not any more. Especially now that victory is out there making great bikes. I love Harley but I'm glad victory came along to give them a shove to make a better bike!
Ok, these videos are now five years old. What has HD done since then, to address some (if not all) of these issues raised?
I can wrench on anything, I bought a Victory Cross Country so I don`t have wrench on it. I bought it to ride. 18,000 trouble free miles.
What is the gas mileage on the Victory Cross Country Tour vs Harley Street Glide Special? This was a great 5-part segment.
I ride a 2012 Cross Country. I regularly get 40-50 MPG, easily. Since it's fuel injected, you can set the Victory Cross Country's LCD display to show you how many miles per gallon you're getting while you ride. So you can monitor efficiency you're getting at all times. Like pretty much every Victory owner, I love mine. Rock solid, reliable, and the best handling of any bike in its class.
Have had HD's for a long time, never had stator problems, Naturally new technology will be better. HD's been owning from the get. Ive ripped the fuk out of them, been just fine. Your Polaris engines may be up on new spec, but HD shit works just fine. Stop trying to degrade HD. It works...
Wow I was considering a Harley thinking they have improved their technology, but I can't afford constant rebuilds. That chain is going to be expensive unless you do your own work.
This isn't a Harley vs Victory. This is a Victory commercial.
I own a hammer and couldn't be happier. Harley could make a ledger version of the Sportster motor because it's pretty much bulletproof, but they won't because they'll lose millions in service fees. I do want an old school shove with a kick.
These vids are one of the main reasons I bought my vicotry and have never looked back!!
Dont most car transaxels have a chain drive?
The 69 Honda 750/4 also used a roller chain primary.
I guess the guy forgot to mention that the stators on harleys are cooled by the primary case fluid. So it does get cooled off pretty well... As for the starters being engaged all the time, I wonder how many one-way bearing failures they've had that they aren't mentioning. Both bikes have pro's and con's
Awesome insight thank you for your open explanations concerning internal works in comparison to Harley,obviously a better design and superior engineering .....Please forgive me my fellow Harley owners.
That's not why people buy a Harley, having owned many myself. Most of us don't have a piece of tin we can flash a cop so going at blazing speed is irrelevant. Proving you can blow past a Harley, might impress you, but doesn't impress Harley owners, We like to gather in bunches and ride together doing the speed limit, or just slightly over and the Harley is built just right for that.
As far as the engine modifications over the Harley, still not enough. Who cares if you don't have rocker arms, relocated the air intake etc.. We like to get together at a friends house, tinker with our under-performing, over-heating, 100+ year old technology dinosaurs. The more that's wrong with them, the more we have to work on them, the longer we can stay, the less time we have to spend with that yapping nag at home. No one complains more about Harleys, than Harley owners.
Victory is really having a fight with itself by trying to show how it out performs a Harley, we know that. We're not looking for super performance, we're looking for a bike that can do 60 - 70 mph that sounds good, looks good and has a history because that is what attracts those girls with the little cut-off jeans that want to go for a ride and push those little air bags right against your back.
Me, I dumped the yapping nag, I'm too old for the girls in the cut-off jeans and too old to be sweating my ass off on an air-cooled 2013 Road Glide or Victory so I traded it in for a 2013 Honda F6B. Six cylinders of water-cooled, bullet-proof rocketry, with wide seat for the plump girls, a thing of beauty
We ride what works! I spent many years working on both my and friends rather then riding. I owned a harley also. I will never make THAT mistake again! Now we all ride what works, and yes you are correct, speed isn't the answer, but having more power makes it a lot easier to ride, not having to downshift for big hills or to pass someone etc...
I come into town in 4th gear and can turn corners in 4th gear without lugging my engine, it does it with ease! My harley, I had to shift shift shift shift and FINALLY hit the speed limit, and when I had a passenger, it was that much worse!
I appreciate that Victory and Indian are kicking harleys ass, it's about time an American based company succeeds!
I think competition is fine, especially when you were the only game in town your quality tends to take a dive. My basic point was that this Victory dealer is saying how outdated this is and how much better that is when Harley people already know all that. They know very well what an antiquated piece of crap it is but they're not going to de-brand themselves from Harley for a Victory, since Victory has no brand. All it is is a non-Harley it isn't anything. As far as speed goes there have been Goldwings out there for 30 years and they haven't jumped because Harley is VERY good at selling a lifestyle, maybe the best.
Well said :-)
So in a nut shell, Harley owners "know" they are paying more for under powered, paint shaker, maintenance queen motorcycles...........and they like it that way.....HaHaHa. You hear that Victory.....your bikes are just too stinking reliable? Why would you want to ride a bike that you could be blowing all of your money on and wasting all of your time working on instead? WOW I have never heard anyone seriously suggest that Harley owners spend more on Harley because needing more mechanical attention is a good thing.
It's true, case in point, they just recalled ALL the 2014 Touring Models for a clutch problem that could cause crashes. Meanwhile last year there was a similar recall for the same problem. Harley has always used the public for their R & D. Are these guys going to get rid of their bikes and go to a Victory because their clutch sucks, no way, they would rather do the recall and stay on the Harley.
Victory is not a real alternative to a Harley as it's just another V-Twin air-cooled bike with way less dealers than Harley. I looked at a Victory when I was looking to dump the my 2013 Road Glide but all I was looking at was a similar priced Harley lookalike .air-cooled V-Twin loaded with plastic. Now the F6B is the true alternative to Harley and Victory and any other Touring air-cooled bike. Dealer-wise, reliability, power, handling, there is no comparison. First break in maintenance is 4,000 miles and cost only $162.00. Harley sells a great lifestyle with a solid pedigree and an OK bike and Victory doesn't have the lifestyle or the pedigree, they may have the bike but that's not enough. That's why I say they're really fighting with themselves Now with Indian out they are like the red-headed, left-handed step child.
Hummm... evidently you haven't looked at the price of Victory. From a $13,000 Vegas to a $26,000 Arlen. Harley has a complete lower priced entry level line. Victory doesn't. Victory's models start at Harley's Dyna level, at the same price - $13,000. Yamaha's cruisers reach over $20,000.
You are 100% incorrect. It's obvious you're just a Harley hater; Nobody with bike knowledge and common sense would call them a glorified law mower.
Don't get me wrong, I like Victory. But I prefer Harley.
No where in this video does it say the victorys have gear drivin cams. They have overhead cams. Mike shultz even said so. Listen up. Dont knock it just because its newer technology than a harley. And more reliable. If you wanna ride get a vic. If you want a show peice. Something you can polish. Show everyone you have a bike then get a harley
It's just too bad you don't expand your horizons and find out what other bikes are like to ride. I feel sorry for you stuck in one type of bike, especially one that is so lame. I've ridden nearly all brands and most models, harleys are the worst excuse for a motorcycle I have ever encountered. You are missing out on some awesome fun riding that garbage. I think you guys are the ultimate pretenders. Loud pipes to simulate power. Black leather, tassels, it's all a pretend lifestyle.
i spoke to a CVO owner yesterday, and he told me that the CVO 110 did not have much more power than the 103. I was shocked. He spent $43,000 on a motorcycle/brand and couldnt perceive any power increase in the bigger motor. Harley is going to be in big trouble if they dont wake up and see what's going on around them: everyone is making better bikes than them. it's going to catch up with them sooner or later.
so if victorys are "head and shoulders" better than harleys. than why are indians (owned by polaris) at least $10,000 more expensive than harleys equivolent model? indians are alot more comparable to harleys than victorys. so thats basically polaris saying that the indian is twice as expensive as a victory because its twice as nice as the victory, even though its more similar to a harley....
same way if you want a beautiful Italian bike, a Ducati would seem to be the choice, but if you want an old school motorcycle, where every component looks vintage but still functions perfectly well for road riding a Guzzi would be the only option. Depends what you value yourself - there is no right or wrong choice in the end! just don't dish others cause they want something different, a cbr600 has a much better spec sheet than my Sportster, but it just dosent interest me in the slightest!
To be fair to HD, the bikes do evolve every year, they now have decent tyres, brakes, suspension, efi, integrated LED brake and turn signals, you can buy SE exhausts and super-tuners, however much rightly stays the same over the decades, because people love the purity and continuity of a Harley, such as the general shape of the bikes and the big air-cooled, push rod ohv twins. Yes you could buy a faster, cheaper to maintain american bike, ie Victory, but you won't be riding the real thing.
I honestly don't understand how you can say that using the same technology for 100years is seen as a positive!?! What a croc of horse S%#$. Bikes can still be made with a vintage feel WITHOUT the un-necessary 100year old now to be inferior build technology. There is no excuse for HD not moving on with better technology. And there is only one reason and that is to make more money off the consumer for servive and parts. HD lover need to wake up. And gp by a victory if they want made in USA!!!
The biking world would be a much worse place without Victory, and Harley could certainly do with more performance orientated bikes.
However the focus on bashing HD for still using much of the same technology for 100+ years is to miss the point that many riders see this as a positive, they like the vintage feel of the bikes, and the fact they are not a new "fake" retro bike but have tangible links to the first Harleys produced, this is quite unique and a positive, as Harley well know..
Your right that bearing could wear out and need replaced eventually along with the wheel bearings and clutch. Now, what about the primary, stator, belt replacement, plastic tensioner feet and why and the guy in my town that can't keep the damn thing running or my old boss's 20K Harley that had to get hauled in with no oil pressure. But your right, you don't want to spin a bearing around too much, it could wear out.
Obviously this guy knows his stuff. Is it one sided, sure, but is any of it not true? Just about every Harley my friends have owned needed a stator by 20,000 miles. That's just a plain fact. I traded my Road Glide for a new Cross Country last week. I test drove one in Sturgis and couldn't believe I was on an American made, air-cooled, v-twin. I was so used to the lack of refinement with Harleys, I never expected the Victory to be that much better. But they are! I'm not looking back!
The engine tech looks cool but I just can't get past the look. Last summer I considered the new BMW, GoldWing, Vision & the Electra Glide. The BMW was very strong but not our cup of tea. I own a 96 Wing & wanted to try out the newer 1800 but no luck getting a Honda shop to let me test ride even a used one. Vision, not interested. Sounds good on paper but the styling is way out there. A 106 in a Ultra Classic style frame would be cool. Wound up with a new Ultra Classic & happy with my selection.
victorys are modern, more dependable, technology. harley is classic style, feel, and they do that on purpose. with porsche as their partners in crime they could easily modernise their engines but then they would be just like every other bike company. Why be the same when you could be different? ducatis arent know for being dependible just like harley, but people still buy them because they have that perfect attention to detail and unmatchable beauty
sister, mother, brother, father, grandma, grandpa, wife and me ride harley so aparently its more than just had its day. its still going stronger then any other bike company out. I hope victory can pull out some huge sales and be huge too. Im just sick of everyone ripping on harleys! their bikes and victories bikes are technically two totally different bikes yet everyone wants to compare them.
I don't think a comparison is fair when you are only talking negatively about the other product. A good comparison would be to show both the pros and cons. This to me is typical bashing that has cheapen the product and the merit of the company.
It is really sad because victory does make a quality product but with victory having to result to bashing its competition has completely taken the desire of owning one out of my mind.
Dick Scott's sales them here in Michigan and I will not make a retu
My first bike was a old Italian 250 sprint. I have'nt bought a harley since.I refuse to be raped by a corperation so I can say my scooters made in the USA. Finally someone made an american bike you can ride.I bought a new Victory in 2005, 30,000 trouble free miles later: Ilove it. besides If I rode A harley someone might think I'm a 55 year old yuppie who just bought a 33,000 dollar HD so he can be a biker now. I'd much rather stand out than fit in.
I will say this for arguement sake... EVERYONE that has compared their bikes to harley, has failed. They are the first, and will probably be the last. And they are, hands down the most beautiful bike in the world. Which on average is anywhere between 75-90% the reason for a person chosing any particular bike... LOOKS. Power, performance, handling, and reliability goes to victory... Hands down.
They might have better technology but I personally find them very ugly, especially the touring ones. I'll stick with Triumph and Harley. Extremely happy with my dyna. Ive taken it across the country twice now. No problems what so ever and I find it very comfortable. All personal preference and taste & to each his own. All that matters is that you ride.
Whats so bad about a chain drive tranny? Most bikes still use chains to drive the wheels. most engines in cars (including my Ford Focus) have chains that drive the camshafts. So im not sure why having a chain inside your engine is good, why a chain driving your wheels is good, but a chain driving your gears is horribly wrong. Its the same principle in all 3 applications.
Don't get me wrong, I like all the other innovations that are real improvements in reliability. I just don't get this one (the always spinning starter) as being a selling point. If anything they should keep quiet about it.
Again I ask, is there really that big a problem with people accidentally hitting the start button while the motor is running?
I don't understand why any company preaching technology and innovation would compare themselves with Harley. Most people who buy Harley's do not buy them because they want a technologically advanced motorcycle. I don't think victory bikes are better just different. Victories are super cool and I don't need to say anything about another brand to feel that way.
I really do dig Victory. I own a harley and wish I owned a Victory. I think that in time Victory will NOT need to do the Pepsi challenge with harley. Soon everyone will figure out this brand of bike is the best on the road. I would gladly hand over my harley for any victory on the road today, tomorrow or next year...
You are correct, there is no substitute for a decent bike, it's just too bad you don't have one. 30 years of riding a lame boring substitute for a real bike. Life is too short for that. Get out there and experience some fun, and ride some good bikes for a change. Nobody needs to suffer like you have!
The chain drive cams in all Motorcycles/.cars do not get the torque loads that you get on the transmission, Now a lot of vehicles use chains and even motorcycles to drive the rear wheels but the best way to drive the transmission from the engine is gears not a chain that constantly has to be adjusted
Besides these victory bikes and the Japanese cruisers are nothing more than clones trying to appeal to Harley buyers. They are all slow and don't handle very well might as well get the better looking one. That Victory Vision is horrible I'd rather be stuck on the side of the road on an Electra Glide
This video is obvious one sided but was also informative. Let's face it Harley still uses old technology. Maybe they feel if it ain't broke don't fix it...but bottom line its still old technology...chain drive primaries...the video does make alot if powerful points. Even HD owners have to admit this.
I'm convinced. My next bike will be a Victory. I have been riding Suzukis and Kawasakis for over 30 years.
Still, I can't prove this, but I'm pretty sure my KZ550 that I bought new in '84 had a CHAIN primary drive. KZ550's were regarded as indestructible back then. I'm pretty sure chains have been used since 1939.
yes they have been used since then, but he was talking about cars! strange for a bike video : /
Harleys have there own charm...but then again,i like old vibrating rattle traps.If im going to live cheap as hell for a year to save enough down payment to perm ditch my car,im going to go with the Victory!
@mahmahmonkey What does Harley have??? Do your homework. 72% of new motorcycles sold last year weren't Harley... Not a very impressive market share... How much long can Harley sell a 50 Horse Power bikes for $20,000?
what about that "chain drive system" on the victory same faults apply
I've always loved the sound and look of Harley Davidsons, they got me interested in customs in the first place. However, since Victory got on the scene i felt the modern design reliability and performance spoke volumes. So 4 days ago i bought myself a brand new Vegas 8-ball with stage 1 and a 2 into 1 cobra exhaust and i couldn't be happier! I've found MY brand and it is Victory. The most important thing is we have the freedom to chose what we wanna ride. Stick together bikers.
I couldn't see polaris cutting victory. They're #2 in sales, only being behind harley davidson. No other company has achieved that in less than 15 years of operation.
@TheReaISlacker Why does everyone compare themselves to Harley if they know they're superior? It's kinda comical. Victory will never have what HD has achieved, never.
if Harley changes the way the bikes are made I don't think they will sound like a Harley anymore. I want it to sound like a Harley. Nothing sounds like a Harley.
@ArizonaVictory Other way... GM and HD have people who can make 600 Million $ from nothing :) Polaris and Ford cant do that, they have to work work for it ;)
The only thing that Harley has over Victory is brand-self-indentification. Harley owners think of themselves as Harley owners and introduce themselves as Harley owners (and they'll get the tattoo to show it). A Victory rider typically refers to themselves as a motorcyclist. All the superior tech in the world won't change the minds of people who don't want to know about it.
Doesnt matter what you ride as long as your riding. I personally own a Harley and absolutely love it. Owned several bikes before it but my Harley is my favorite!